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Winter Storm Athena batters the Northeast; Brutus takes aim at Montana

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 3:28 PM GMT on November 08, 2012

“I am waiting for the locusts and pestilence next,” said New Jersey Governor Chris Christie at a press conference on Wednesday, after Winter Storm Athena punished New Jersey with heavy snows, high winds, and a 3-foot storm surge. The storm brought unexpectedly high snowfall amounts along a swath from Central New Jersey northeastwards across Southeast New York, Long Island, Connecticut, and South Central Massachusetts. The 4.7" of snow that fell at New York City's Central Park was the city's earliest 4-inch snowfall on record. The old record for earliest 4-inch snow was Nov. 23 in 1989. Last year's Snowtober storm brought the earliest 2" snowfall on record in NYC on October 29, 2011, but the city didn't surpass the 4.7" mark until January 21, as winter basically failed to show up. The 5.7" of snow that fell in Newark, NJ Wednesday was the heaviest single-day November snowfall on record in Newark (going back to 1931), and the earliest snowfall of that magnitude on record (the previous record was set just last year, when the Snowtober storm dumped 5.2" of snow on October 29, 2011.) Several locations in New Jersey and Connecticut recorded a foot a more of snow during Athena, with the storm's highest total of 13.5" recorded in Clintonville, CT. High winds combined with the heavy snows and rains to knock out power to 375,000 additional customers in New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut yesterday, and a storm surge of 2 - 3.5' hit most of the mid-Atlantic and New England coasts, from Virginia to Massachusetts. The storm brought waves of 20' to the waters offshore of Long Island, NY and near Block Island, RI. The top winds over water were 61 mph, gusting to 76 mph, in Buzzard's Bay, MA. Here are the top wind gusts from Athena as of 8 am EST on Thursday, November 8, 2012:




Figure 1. A resident clears out destroyed household belongings from his flood-damaged home as snow falls on November 7, 2012 in the Staten Island borough of New York City. How often do you see snow falling on hurricane-damaged coasts? This sort of one-two weather punch is unprecedented in my lifetime. Image credit: AP.

The good news for the Northeast is that locusts and pestilence are not next, but rather sunny skies and a substantial warm-up. Athena, currently centered just south of Cape Cod, Massachusetts, will move off to the northeast today, leaving sunny skies in its wake. Highs will be near 50°F today in New York City, and will warm to mid-60s by this weekend.

Here comes Brutus: major blizzard coming for Montana
Right on the heels of Winter Storm Athena comes Winter Storm Brutus--a powerful low pressure system that is taking shape over Southern Montana this morning. Light snows have begun in Southwest Montana, and will spread to the northwest across much of Montana and into western North Dakota this afternoon through Saturday. As much as 12” to 18” of snowfall is expected for several major cities in Montana, including Great Falls, and over 2 feet is expected in the mountains.  According to the Glasgow, MT NWS Facebook page, the current storm total snowfall amounts north of the Missouri River/Fort Peck areas would be within the top 10 two day snowfall totals across this region, going back 115 years. Strong winds will combine with heavy snowfall to produce blizzard conditions across northeast Montana. Brutus is forming in response to an usually large loop in the jet stream over the Western U.S. On the east side of the jet stream axis, a southwesterly flow of air has pumped in record-breaking warm air from the Desert Southwest. Sheridan, Wyoming hit 79°F Wednesday, breaking their previous all-time monthly record of 78° set on Nov. 5, 1975. Records go back to 1893. However, Sheridan will be on the west side of jet stream by Saturday, as the cold front associated with Brutus passes through Wyoming. This will bring Sheridan powerful northwest winds, 4 - 8 inches of snow, and high temperatures 50° colder than Wednesday's.

Jeff Masters
Adding Insult to Injury
Adding Insult to Injury
Nor'easter snow after Hurricane Sandy
Staten Island - after Hurricane Sandy
Staten Island - after Hurricane Sandy
NOR'EASTER THE MORNING AFTER
NOR'EASTER THE MORNING AFTER
We received seven inches during the evening last night. I can't believe all the devastation that has happened! I fell so bad for all those that have lost their homes and now have to contend with this bad weather. Please say a Prayer for them! THANK YOU, Ralf.

Winter Weather Brutus

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Hopes and thoughts out to all in Athena's path.
Thanks doc
Thanks Doc.Winter weather is a no show here in D.C.So you can visit here if your already sick of old man winter.
Sip

Ahhhh...

------------

Stella Blue

It all rolls into one and nothing comes for free,
There's nothing you can hold, for very long.
And when you hear that song come crying like the wind,
It seems like all this life was just a dream.
Stella blue. Stella blue.


- _ - _ - _ -

Hard freezes across the lower Mississippi Valley delayed YET ANOTHER week or two it appears.

Thanks for the update Dr. Masters.

Wash, that's a pretty scary avy!
Quoting washingtonian115:
Thanks Doc.Winter weather is a no show here in D.C.So you can visit here if your already sick of old man winter.


Where's my rainy!!!! lol.

I'm thinking you will have a White Christmas, washi. I'm really feelin' for you all you Folks.

235
NOUS71 KVUY 071402
ADMERH

ALERT ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE EASTERN REGION
BOHEMIA NY 900 AM EST WED NOVEMBER 7 2012

TO: ALL ER WFOS

TWC HAS NAMED THE NOR'EASTER "ATHENA.." THE NWS DOES NOT USE NAME
WINTER STORMS IN OUR PRODUCTS. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM USING THE TERM
ATHENA IN ANY OF OUR PRODUCTS.



anything about Brutus?
Thanks Dr. Masters for your update,
I am truly amazed ,as were you, when seeing snow among Sandy's ravaged area's..
Was hoping it would be a minor storm,but alas it seems to have compounded all the problems in the North East..
Prayers to them one and all..
Thanks again
Thanks Doc . From the reports from some people it has been a bad Noreaster in some areas.
Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:

235
NOUS71 KVUY 071402
ADMERH

ALERT ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE EASTERN REGION
BOHEMIA NY 900 AM EST WED NOVEMBER 7 2012

TO: ALL ER WFOS

TWC HAS NAMED THE NOR'EASTER "ATHENA.." THE NWS DOES NOT USE NAME
WINTER STORMS IN OUR PRODUCTS. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM USING THE TERM
ATHENA IN ANY OF OUR PRODUCTS.



anything about Brutus?


Brutus

click image for animation
Quoting TomballTXPride:


Where's my rainy!!!! lol.

I'm thinking you will have a White Christmas, washi. I'm really feelin' for you all you Folks.
I would change it if I had access to a computer and not my phone.I hope winter shows up just in time for December.Can't have a winter 11-12 type set up again.

Post 5:This is what happens when you are limited with only few pictures.
Quoting washingtonian115:
I would change it if I had access to a computer and not my phone.I hope winter shows up just in time for December.Can't have a winter 11-12 type set up again.

Post 5:This is what happens when you are limited with only few pictures.



That's okay, Washi. Yeah, I am really feeling an earlier push of Old Man Winter for you Guys. Especially for the Eastern Ohio Valley region into the Mid-Atlantic States.

I can't say with any certainty that the entire winter will be cold and snowy but can tell you the chances of you seeing snow and a cold punch of Arctic air for the third week of December or so looks likely.

A treat for those wishing for a White Christmas...


Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:

235
NOUS71 KVUY 071402
ADMERH

ALERT ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE EASTERN REGION
BOHEMIA NY 900 AM EST WED NOVEMBER 7 2012

TO: ALL ER WFOS

TWC HAS NAMED THE NOR'EASTER "ATHENA.." THE NWS DOES NOT USE NAME
WINTER STORMS IN OUR PRODUCTS. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM USING THE TERM
ATHENA IN ANY OF OUR PRODUCTS.



anything about Brutus?



why do you guys most keep posting that?
Quoting TomballTXPride:


Brutus

click image for animation


The blizzard in the making is the baroclinic leaf on the right. It's very impressive even now. By friday, 35-45 mi/hr easterly winds should extend from eastern ND to MT, along with blowing and drifting snow. A real mess.
Quoting TomballTXPride:

That's okay, Washi. Yeah, I am really feeling an earlier push of Old Man Winter for you Guys. Especially for the Eastern Ohio Valley region into the Mid-Atlantic States.

I can't say with any certainty that the entire winter will be cold and snowy but can tell you the chances of you seeing snow and a cold punch of Arctic air for the third week of December or so looks likely.

A treat for those wishing for a White Christmas...
The entire winter doesn't even have to be cold and snowy.Just as long as we at least get 1-3 good snow events I'll be good.
In total we only had 2 inches of snow for the entire winter(11-12).I only wore my heavy coat a few times.Wore a light jacket most of the time.
Quoting Tazmanian:



why do you guys most keep posting that?




el nino yet??
Quoting Progster:


The blizzard in the making is the baroclinic leaf on the right. It's very impressive even now. By friday, 35-45 mi/hr easterly winds should extend from eastern ND to MT, along with blowing and drifting snow. A real mess.


Sure does. And that blowing and drifting is always a killer for those Folks up their in the Northern Plains, since that area see so much wind on an annual basis...



Quoting Tazmanian:



why do you guys most keep posting that?
You're not a blog police. Admin is. We can post whatever we like as long as it doesn't break any rules set down by Admin or Dr. Masters himself.
Quoting washingtonian115:
The entire winter doesn't even have to be cold and snowy.Just as long as we at least get 1-3 good snow events I'll be good.
In total we only had 2 inches of snow for the entire winter(11-12).I only wore my heavy coat a few times.Wore a light jacket most of the time.


I'm with you. When I used to live in a colder climate, it was never the winter I hated. It was the fact that it seemed soooooo loooooong and spring always ook FOREVER!!!

This is my very first post. I want to say thank you to Dr. Masters and the entire WU for a great site and means of meaningful communication. I have been here for years but until Irene and Sandy I never thought I would be reading the tropical section for weather pertaining to my neck of the woods (Niagara Falls On). Even through the unnecessary political discussions and the completely confusing references to Kool-Aid the discussions of the last few weeks were beyond insightful and helpful.

I am fascinated with weather but a complete novice. Some of you people have no clue how much you have taught me.

Thanks

Aaron
Quoting Tazmanian:



why do you guys most keep posting that?


I posted it in a link this morning, because it showed that the NWS were taking the approach that as far as they were concerned , it was a non named winter storm . and they sent this strongly worded memo to remind staff, that they were not to call the storm by the TWC designated name.
Quoting Tazmanian:



why do you guys most keep posting that?

Maybe because it's funny...and also shows the NWS doesn't have a good grasp on grammer. :)
The weakening low is almost directly overhead Nantucket right now.



Quoting 1900hurricane:
The weakening low is almost directly overhead Nantucket right now.



Well, Nor'easter Athena had been eventful...
Quoting sar2401:

Maybe because it's funny...and also shows the NWS doesn't have a good grasp on grammer. :)
As some don't have a good grasp on spelling... ;-)
Again with the silly storm names.
The storm actually has a better look to it on Vis. Satellite than at any time in the past few days. Pretty circular.
28. DDR
Good afternoon
Heavy thunderstorms and rain in Trinidad,almost 3 inches and still pouring.
29. MTWX
Wind gusts already over 40 MPH!! Though quite usual in Montana, it is going to cause whiteouts with the snow showers thickening up!

MT Mesonet

Scroll over points to see updated conditions. Currently Lewistown is reporting ZERO Visibility and Helena is at .25 miles!!
Thank you Dr. Masters
Personally, I like the idea of naming the storms, but a friend pointed out a good reason why NWS may be so adamant that their people not use names: apparently, many insurance policies (especially marine policies) have "named storm" clauses. If NWS were to refer to the storm as Athena, that could have all sorts of unintended consequences as these clauses that were intended to apply to tropical storms suddenly come into effect.
32. MTWX
Current MT Road Conditions and Closures:

MDOT Traveler Information

(Pretty sweet interactive map if you ask me...)
Quoting tsarna:
Personally, I like the idea of naming the storms, but a friend pointed out a good reason why NWS may be so adamant that their people not use names: apparently, many insurance policies (especially marine policies) have "named storm" clauses. If NWS were to refer to the storm as Athena, that could have all sorts of unintended consequences as these clauses that were intended to apply to tropical storms suddenly come into effect.
You raise an excellent point. I'm not sure how they are worded, however. They may say "tropical," which would make it a mute point, in this case.
Quoting OracleDeAtlantis:
You raise an excellent point. I'm not sure how they are worded, however. They may say "tropical," which would make it a mute point, in this case.


They are probably worded every way imaginable. Some probably say "tropical", while others assume that only tropical storms get named. Nobody can know for sure what the impact would be.

If the NWS did decide to start naming winter storms, I think they'd need to give a years-long lead time to allow any necessary adjustments to policies, contracts, etc. first.
35. MTWX
Traffic Cam MT 200 near Lewistown




I-15 Sieben Flats (Just north of Helena)

Quoting Tazmanian:



why do you guys most keep posting that?


Because we can Taz, because we can :)
Quoting CoolB:
This is my very first post. I want to say thank you to Dr. Masters and the entire WU for a great site and means of meaningful communication. I have been here for years but until Irene and Sandy I never thought I would be reading the tropical section for weather pertaining to my neck of the woods (Niagara Falls On). Even through the unnecessary political discussions and the completely confusing references to Kool-Aid the discussions of the last few weeks were beyond insightful and helpful.

I am fascinated with weather but a complete novice. Some of you people have no clue how much you have taught me.

Thanks

Aaron


Good first post. Welcome to our world of brilliant posts, excellent posts, crazy posts, wierd posts, puzzling posts, and sometimes really strange posts.
The 12z GFS shows a couple of fish storms but not much to worry about...Link
Quoting CoolB:
This is my very first post. I want to say thank you to Dr. Masters and the entire WU for a great site and means of meaningful communication. I have been here for years but until Irene and Sandy I never thought I would be reading the tropical section for weather pertaining to my neck of the woods (Niagara Falls On). Even through the unnecessary political discussions and the completely confusing references to Kool-Aid the discussions of the last few weeks were beyond insightful and helpful.

I am fascinated with weather but a complete novice. Some of you people have no clue how much you have taught me.

Thanks

Aaron


I am the same way Cool. Before this blog I knew very little about tropical systems. +1000 to Dr. Masters and the readers who comment on this blog!
Quoting atris:
The 12z GFS shows a couple of fish storms but not much to worry about...Link


When I saw Dr. Masters' post about the GFS projecting another set of conditions like Sandy I could not help but think back to the forecasts way in advance of Sandy from both the Euro and GFS, and me thinking they must be nuts as there was nothing showing for such a long time and no sign that their projections were valid. And then...... WHAM!
Just viewed the GFS from 324 hours to 360 hours, storm doesnt make it to the northeast..fish storm................................................BUT..a Good winter storm there for sure
Quoting atris:
The 12z GFS shows a couple of fish storms but not much to worry about...Link
agreed
sun is warm but this cold breeze goes right thru ya.....
and winter isnt here yet huh..............
bringing that Cold air right down here.............
Thanks Dr. Masters.
Quoting atris:
The 12z GFS shows a couple of fish storms but not much to worry about...Link

The season isn't over 'till it is over.
URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GLASGOW MT
333 AM MST THU NOV 8 2012

.A POWERFUL AND WIDESPREAD WINTER STORM WILL IMPACT THE REGION
BEGINNING THIS AFTERNOON. THIS STORM WILL PRODUCE SIGNIFICANT
SNOWFALL ACROSS THE REGION THROUGH THE WEEKEND.

MTZ016>020-023-024-059>062-082245-
/O.CON.KGGW.BZ.W.0003.121108T1800Z-121111T0100Z/
CENTRAL AND SOUTHEAST PHILLIPS-CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN VALLEY-
DANIELS-SHERIDAN-WESTERN ROOSEVELT-MCCONE-RICHLAND-
NORTHERN PHILLIPS-SOUTHWEST PHILLIPS-NORTHERN VALLEY-
EASTERN ROOSEVELT-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...MALTA...SACO...GLASGOW...FORT PECK...
HINSDALE...FRAZER...SCOBEY...PLENTYWOOD...MEDICIN E LAKE...
WOLF POINT...POPLAR...CIRCLE...SIDNEY...FAIRVIEW...WHIT EWATER...
ZORTMAN...OPHEIM...CULBERTSON
333 AM MST THU NOV 8 2012

...BLIZZARD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 11 AM THIS MORNING TO
6 PM MST SATURDAY...

A BLIZZARD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 11 AM THIS MORNING TO
6 PM MST SATURDAY.

* TIMING...WINTER STORM WILL BEGIN AS EARLY AS THIS AFTERNOON AND
LAST THROUGH SATURDAY.

* WINDS/VISIBILITY...WINDS OF 25 TO 40 MPH AND GUSTS UP TO 50
MPH ARE POSSIBLE WHICH COMBINED WITH HEAVY SNOW CAN REDUCE
VISIBILITY TO LESS THAN A QUARTER MILE AT TIMES.

* SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...12 TO 17 INCHES.

* OTHER IMPACTS...EAST TO NORTH WINDS WILL LEAD TO DRIFTING AND
BLOWING SNOW WHICH WILL RESULT IN HAZARDOUS TRAVEL.


PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

IF TRAPPED IN THE BLIZZARD DO NOT LEAVE YOUR CAR. DISORIENTATION
CAN OCCUR QUICKLY IN LOW TEMPERATURES AND WHITE OUT CONDITIONS
WHICH CAN LEAD TO A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION. CARRY A WINTER
SURVIVAL KIT THAT INCLUDES ENOUGH WARM CLOTHING AND EMERGENCY
SUPPLIES FOR ALL TRAVELERS IN THE VEHICLE.

PETS AND LIVESTOCK ARE ALSO AFFECTED BY COLD WEATHER. KEEP PETS
INDOORS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. IF NOT POSSIBLE...MAKE SURE OUTDOOR
PETS HAVE WARM DRY SHELTER...AND SUFFICIENT FOOD AND FRESH
UNFROZEN WATER.

ONLY TRAVEL IN AN EMERGENCY. IF TRAVELING ALWAYS CARRY A WINTER
SURVIVAL KIT THAT INCLUDES ENOUGH WARM CLOTHING AND EMERGENCY
SUPPLIES FOR ALL TRAVELERS IN THE VEHICLE.

&&

$$
weather is clearing up in NYC etc..............SHORT TERM FORECAST
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY
1116 AM EST THU NOV 8 2012

CTZ008-012-NYZ081-081800-
NORTHERN NEW LONDON-SOUTHERN NEW LONDON-SOUTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-
1116 AM EST THU NOV 8 2012

.NOW...
A BAND OF MODERATE RAIN ACROSS EASTERN PORTIONS OF NEW LONDON
COUNTY AND THE SOUTH FORK OF LONG ISLAND...NEAR MONTAUK
POINT...WILL IMPACT THE AREA THROUGH 100 PM. RAINFALL AMOUNTS OF
AROUND ONE-QUARTER INCH ARE POSSIBLE. LIGHTER AMOUNTS ARE EXPECTED
TO THE WEST.

$$
In my area we did not see high winds, and the Barnegat Bay did not flood out our yards or roads. We did get a few inches of snow, which is now melting. We can deal with soggy yards, but I am sure those without power had a cold night since they have not been able to warm up their homes in over a week. I have friends and family that have been loosing their power off and on for the past three days for multiple reasons. My mother lost power again last night (inland- Bricktown), but not due to winds, but likely heavy wet snow.

I can tell you in my neighborhood the trash pick up has been excellent. Entire household contents at curbside have been removed quickly! They seem to come around at least twice a day.

My view on the naming of winter storms-- I honestly could do with or without the naming, but it could be helpful to those that actually live along the coast. We usually say "remember the storm of 62, the first storm not the second one?" or "remember the storm that took the 4 house on Bay Ave?" It would be easier for us to just give the storm a name since we can have several storms in one year.

I did see Dr. Masters post about a possible situation brewing for Thanksgiving. Of course this is too far into the future to say, but I will be watching closely.

Thanks again everyone for the brilliant weather posts, and updates.
Quoting tsarna:
Personally, I like the idea of naming the storms, but a friend pointed out a good reason why NWS may be so adamant that their people not use names: apparently, many insurance policies (especially marine policies) have "named storm" clauses. If NWS were to refer to the storm as Athena, that could have all sorts of unintended consequences as these clauses that were intended to apply to tropical storms suddenly come into effect.



The other reason is that NWS job is to inform the public of weather hazards by being as scientifically accurate as possible. The fact is TWC is naming them is simply because it's a marketing technique. One can easily know why this is the case, as TWC has been bought by NBC. If anyone here wasn't already aware of this, it should make perfect sense now.


Personally I don't think it's good for TWC at all. However, we all know that businesses often produce self destructive marketing due to not being satisfied with what they already have. This is otherwise known as trying too hard.

It's kind of sad that it seems almost required for this site to acknowledge the naming of winter storms now that it is bought by TWC. It's pretty sad that Weather Underground and TWC are both owned by NBC.


Fox might as well buy both sites now at this trend. Meteorology is a serious analytical science, there's no place for that kind of non-sense. One time I watched a story on Fox about "why we don't need the NWS" because we have many successful private sources. Well, while I don't have a problem with private sources, this whole silly naming of winter storms is one of the many reasons I'm thankful the NWS is the U.S. weather authority. There always should be a government authority with weather.

Thankfully most of the local weather stations here do there best to stick with sound science without watering it down. However, that can't be said for all private weather sources.



Quoting TropicTraveler:


When I saw Dr. Masters' post about the GFS projecting another set of conditions like Sandy I could not help but think back to the forecasts way in advance of Sandy from both the Euro and GFS, and me thinking they must be nuts as there was nothing showing for such a long time and no sign that their projections were valid. And then...... WHAM!


Yes, I agree Sandy showed in the models from the getgo but there was a consistency in her appearing in every run, and was projected to be a Caribbean/ East coast storm on most of the model runs. Whereas this morning 06Z was the first appearance of an east coast storm at 336 hrs and very few watchers, from what I can tell, of weather take 300 hrs + seriously unless there is consistency .
Quoting riblet2000:
Again with the silly storm names.


Yeah, c'mon! Brutus? Really? With a name like that it should be one for the ages! But, likely wont be.
Quoting riblet2000:
Again with the silly storm names.


I am officially naming these winter storms after beers. Winter Storm Amstel was quite a surprise, and Winter Storm Budweiser looks like a big one for Montana. Wonder where Winter Storm Corona will form? Probably from the south.
Quoting 900MB:


I am officially naming these winter storms after beers. Winter Storm Amstel was quite a surprise, and Winter Storm Budweiser looks like a big one for Montana. Wonder where Winter Storm Corona will form? Probably from the south.


LOL... Maybe the NWS could make some money to put towards research by getting Companies to sponsor storms.
It seems that all are so intrigued with that Athena naming that I did not see any comments so far that the eastern Atlantic system got yellow cycled with 10 percent by the NHC:

AN AREA OF CLOUDINESS AND THUNDERSTORMS HAS DEVELOPED ABOUT 600 MILES WEST-NORTHWEST OF THE CAPE VERDE ISLANDS IN ASSOCIATION WITH A SURFACE TROUGH OF LOW PRESSURE AND A UPPER-LEVEL LOW PRESSURE AREA. ANY ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT SHOULD BE SLOW TO OCCUR...AND THIS SYSTEM HAS A LOW CHANCE...10 PERCENT...OF BECOMING A TROPICAL CYCLONE DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

(edited)
Quoting 900MB:


I am officially naming these winter storms after beers. Winter Storm Amstel was quite a surprise, and Winter Storm Budweiser looks like a big one for Montana. Wonder where Winter Storm Corona will form? Probably from the south.
LOL..I like the idea
Really, the Weather Channel is serious about naming another winter storm (Brutus)? Come on. They are doing this to hype themselves and drive ratings. I know that they said naming winter storms would help bring awareness to potentially dangerous situations. They also said the naming of storms would be VERY rare. I will give them Athena since it came right after Sandy, but Brutus? Please. At this rate, we will be back with the A storms before January. I wish people would see this for what it is-- advertise revenue. The worst part is that they are doing it at the expense of other people. They run the risk of creating undo panic. Enough with the winter storm names. Save it for something truly catastrophic.
When did winter storms start to be named?
The strong coastal storm that buffeted the Northeast with wind, rain, snow, and coastal flooding will lose its grip on the region today, with lessening storm impacts. Over a foot of snow fell in parts of Connecticut with other areas receiving wind gusts to 50 mph and minor to moderate coastal flooding.
Quoting Bluestorm5:
You're not a blog police. Admin is. We can post whatever we like as long as it doesn't break any rules set down by Admin or Dr. Masters himself.
....post why does this have +8 likes? has Taz been misbehaving while I'm not looking?
Severe weather will be back in the form of squall lines I believe.
Quoting Jedkins01:



The other reason is that NWS job is to inform the public of weather hazards by being as scientifically accurate as possible. The fact is TWC is naming them is simply because it's a marketing technique. One can easily know why this is the case, as TWC has been bought by NBC. If anyone here wasn't already aware of this, it should make perfect sense now.


Personally I don't think it's good for TWC at all. However, we all know that businesses often produce self destructive marketing due to not being satisfied with what they already have. This is otherwise known as trying too hard.

It's kind of sad that it seems almost required for this site to acknowledge the naming of winter storms now that it is bought by TWC. It's pretty sad that Weather Underground and TWC are both owned by NBC.


Fox might as well buy both sites now at this trend. Meteorology is a serious analytical science, there's no place for that kind of non-sense. One time I watched a story on Fox about "why we don't need the NWS" because we have many successful private sources. Well, while I don't have a problem with private sources, this whole silly naming of winter storms is one of the many reasons I'm thankful the NWS is the U.S. weather authority. There always should be a government authority with weather.

Thankfully most of the local weather stations here do there best to stick with sound science without watering it down. However, that can't be said for all private weather sources.





Well, maybe then that's part of why they are doing it. Maybe they own some insurance firms too...or some of their board do. So they reckon if it catches on....and NWS succumb to it at some point...there is their out of paying out a lot more insurance claims? Many people at the top who are in it to make as much money as possible, don't care who they hurt or walk over to make more, so could really see it as a possible reason TO try and get the naming thing to catch on. A bit more sinister than just a marketing ploy, but genuinely greedy people are quite sinister to get what they want
I've been reading your blog posts to my friends on the east coast who are still without power. Thank you for staying on top of this in such detail Dr. M! Helping keep people informed.
My concern would be the issue with confusion. If someone hears about Winter Storm Aardvaark n TWC and then goes to look for further info on the NWS website they won't find it, but will find 'a major Nor' Easter'. Is that the same storm, another one? This could cause a lot of confusion, and where confusion exists with severe weather people's lives are at risk.

What if TWC starts naming storms to gain viewers that are not really severe. That would undermine the hurricane naming strategy of the NHC as people could stop taking named storms seriously.

As someone noted earlier, if they only name storms in ares with lots of cable viewers, will people elsewhere not prepare for storms because they haven't been named? In my mind, there are so many risks with using unofficial names for storms that I think TWC is being highly irresponsible in doing it.

Quoting ralphmtsu:
Really, the Weather Channel is serious about naming another winter storm (Brutus)? Come on. They are doing this to hype themselves and drive ratings. I know that they said naming winter storms would help bring awareness to potentially dangerous situations. They also said the naming of storms would be VERY rare. I will give them Athena since it came right after Sandy, but Brutus? Please. At this rate, we will be back with the A storms before January. I wish people would see this for what it is-- advertise revenue. The worst part is that they are doing it at the expense of other people. They run the risk of creating undo panic. Enough with the winter storm names. Save it for something truly catastrophic.
NEW YORK (AP) — The nor'easter that stymied recovery efforts from Superstorm Sandy pulled away from New York and New Jersey Thursday, leaving hundreds of thousands of new people in darkness after a blanket of thick, wet snow snapped storm-weakened trees and downed power lines.
Good Afternoon. From the AussieMet Offices yesterday.

Both Pacific and Indian oceans neutral
Issued on Wednesday 7 November | Product Code IDCKGEWWOO

Indicators of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation remain at neutral levels. Atmospheric indicators such as the Southern Oscillation Index, trade winds, and tropical cloud patterns have persisted at neutral levels through much of the southern winter and spring. Temperatures in the tropical Pacific Ocean are generally warmer than normal in western and central areas, but are very close to their average values in the east.

Climate models surveyed by the Bureau of Meteorology suggest sea surface temperatures in the tropical Pacific Ocean are likely to remain neutral, but warmer than average through until at least early 2013.



Looks like the typical El Nino Winter(with the lower-trajectory swinging storms digging South into the SE and Florida) might not fully materialize this year, but the upcoming Winter storm season for the Northern part of the US might be pretty brutal if these recent storms (the current one in the NE and Brutus in the NW) are any indication.
When did winter storms start to be named?

When TWC decided they'd like to do that.... Ratings push, I'm sure.
I see people are really against TWC from naming winter storms..ok so send them an email explaining WHY you dont like the idea..posting about it here isnt going to get you anywhere.send them an email..write to them..call them etc.
TWC........From the Hurricane Authority to the Winter Storm Authority.................. :)
Quoting LargoFl:
I see people are really against TWC from naming winter storms..ok so send them an email explaining WHY you dont like the idea..posting about it here isnt going to get you anywhere.send them an email..write to them..call them etc.


I honestly dont know why they are so against it.

I think the people complaining are just being stupid.
People prefer ranting here because there is a chance that someone might listen, unlike at TWC:-(. TWC is very unlikely to change their minds just because a group of weather nerds think they are irresponsible.
I will take up your advice though, futile though I think it will be.

Quoting LargoFl:
I see people are really against TWC from naming winter storms..ok so send them an email explaining WHY you dont like the idea..posting about it here isnt going to get you anywhere.send them an email..write to them..call them etc.
Quoting TropicTraveler:


Good first post. Welcome to our world of brilliant posts, excellent posts, crazy posts, wierd posts, puzzling posts, and sometimes really strange posts.


Bring em on, lol!!

Now if I could figure out how to get my avatar picture to work.
Quoting CoolB:
This is my very first post. I want to say thank you to Dr. Masters and the entire WU for a great site and means of meaningful communication. I have been here for years but until Irene and Sandy I never thought I would be reading the tropical section for weather pertaining to my neck of the woods (Niagara Falls On). Even through the unnecessary political discussions and the completely confusing references to Kool-Aid the discussions of the last few weeks were beyond insightful and helpful.

I am fascinated with weather but a complete novice. Some of you people have no clue how much you have taught me.

Thanks

Aaron


Can't believe I missed all about the Kool-Aid!

Hi, yeah, wouldn't think anything tropical affecting you there!

but yes, this blog can be informative, funny, annoying, eye-rolling...well, you name it!
So you think that none of the points I made a couple of posts back are valid?

Quoting FunnelVortex:


I honestly dont know why they are so against it.

I think the people complaining are just being stupid.
without the TWC purchase of this site, the 'naming' thing would have been a side mention of Jeff's and we would have heard nothing more of it.. and that irritates me.
Jeff, do you Really have to use the names???
i cannot endorse this practice (not that mine is of any value whatsoever anyhow ;)
80. MTWX
Quoting LargoFl:
I see people are really against TWC from naming winter storms..ok so send them an email explaining WHY you dont like the idea..posting about it here isnt going to get you anywhere.send them an email..write to them..call them etc.


Doesn't bug me any... I don't pay attention to anything TWC does anyway... ;)
Shakespear wrote a play, who's title, fits this whole "naming thing", it's called, "Much a due about nothing"
82. MTWX
Kinda off topic, but I have a curiosity...

Why doesn't WU use any weather information from the NWS in Great Falls, MT??? All that is on here is PWS's that are usually quite inaccurate...
Quoting 900MB:


Yeah, c'mon! Brutus? Really? With a name like that it should be one for the ages! But, likely wont be.


how come sandy did not get a winter storm name sure did not see any hurricane warnings....
Quoting OviedoWatcher:
So you think that none of the points I made a couple of posts back are valid?



The winter storm naming system is new.

I'm sure people whined when they started naming hurricanes as well.
32 sRyan Maue‏@RyanMaue

@PV_Anomaly I see 956 mb in the most recent GFS 12z at +126 hours http://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/266616176870817 794/photo/1/large
Quoting atris:


Yes, I agree Sandy showed in the models from the getgo but there was a consistency in her appearing in every run, and was projected to be a Caribbean/ East coast storm on most of the model runs. Whereas this morning 06Z was the first appearance of an east coast storm at 336 hrs and very few watchers, from what I can tell, of weather take 300 hrs + seriously unless there is consistency .


You have a good point. If the models start repeating this then we can worry about it.
87. MTWX
Updated images from post 35.. (over 2 hr period)

MT-200 near Lewistown



I-15 Sieben Flats

I don't mind winter storms being named, in fact it is a good idea.
I just mind their choice of names and their reasoning for doing it. It almost makes fun of the other processes by which storms are being named (ie: hurricanes, or winter storms in Europe).

And hooray! I missed the colourful circles on the NHC tropical outlook pages; welcome, possible future Valerie.
Thanks Dr Masters....

Sounds like Brutus deserves its name!
Quoting MTWX:


Doesn't bug me any... I don't pay attention to anything TWC does anyway... ;)


You'd be surprised the things I have named.
These naming storms is the downright DUMBEST thing I have seen from TWC in awhile. It confuses people for one, it diminishes the purpose of naming tropical systems, it psychologically makes people think that named storms are weak and then that causes a host of new issues.


See animation of fourteen hours of Athena development at my blog.
Quoting MrstormX:
These naming storms is the downright DUMBEST thing I have seen from TWC in awhile. It confuses people for one, it diminishes the purpose of naming tropical systems, it psychologically makes people think that named storms are weak and then that causes a host of new issues.



Oh we'll get over it I wish you all would stop bashing twc over the naming the winter storm thing it is what it is so get over it and start getting use to it
As long as I have the First Amendment I will bash as I see fit.
Quoting Tazmanian:



Oh we'll get over it I wish you all would stop bashing twc over the naming the winter storm thing it is what it is so get over it and start getting use to it


Well said bro,

The people whining need to realize the system is still new, it will improve over time.
Quoting Minnemike:
without the TWC purchase of this site, the 'naming' thing would have been a side mention of Jeff's and we would have heard nothing more of it.. and that irritates me.
Jeff, do you Really have to use the names???
i cannot endorse this practice (not that mine is of any value whatsoever anyhow ;)



Actually Dr Master's stated on his own that he liked the idea of naming storms.
It doesn't hurt using the name rather than just "the noreaster" or "the blizzard"
Quoting MrstormX:
These naming storms is the downright DUMBEST thing I have seen from TWC in awhile. It confuses people for one, it diminishes the purpose of naming tropical systems, it psychologically makes people think that named storms are weak and then that causes a host of new issues.
well..did you write TWC and tell them that?..why tell us? we didnt do it
Quoting Tazmanian:



Oh we'll get over it I wish you all would stop bashing twc over the naming the winter storm thing it is what it is so get over it and start getting use to it
I dont see why we should have to . I will be refering to them as winter storms until the NWS adopts the idea and judging by the memo released yesterday they wont be doing it any time soon.....
Quoting MrstormX:
These naming storms is the downright DUMBEST thing I have seen from TWC in awhile. It confuses people for one, it diminishes the purpose of naming tropical systems, it psychologically makes people think that named storms are weak and then that causes a host of new issues.


You could make that argument with every weak fish storm too. They only want to name major storms, I don't think you can pick an issue with that, you'll have to watch how they name them before getting uptight about it.
Quoting MTWX:
Updated images from post 35.. (over 2 hr period)

MT-200 near Lewistown



I-15 Sieben Flats

wow i remember those days longggg ago..its one reason i moved to florida
Quoting atris:
I dont see why we should have to . I will be refering to them as winter storms until the NWS adopts the idea and judging by the memo released yesterday they wont be doing it any time soon.....



And then all of a sudden naming winter storms will become a brilliant idea....?
Quoting LargoFl:
wow i remember those days longggg ago..its one reason i moved to florida


Thats more snow than ive seen in 3 years combined....and thats if its as shallow as i think it is.
Quoting MTWX:
Kinda off topic, but I have a curiosity...

Why doesn't WU use any weather information from the NWS in Great Falls, MT??? All that is on here is PWS's that are usually quite inaccurate...
I think i posted a blizzard warning earlier from MT nws
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


Thats more snow than ive seen in 3 years combined....and thats if its as shallow as i think it is.
no lie..since 1985, i think i saw one or two snow flakes since then.think one year we did get a slight dusting on the car window at night..sun came out and poof it went..was thinking i should have moved further south lol
Quoting FunnelVortex:


I honestly dont know why they are so against it.

I think the people complaining are just being stupid.
yes im thinking its an arguing point, made to disrupt the blog..too many times and on the ignore it goes


There I am, right in the middle of things. Waiting for the wind to shift directions.
Looking at the visible satellite images of "Athena" , if I didn't know better I'd say it was a hurricane , and not a cold core system . Impressive .

I'm having a tough time taking the TWC winter storm naming system seriously . "Brutus" .. LOL

I doubt those people dealing with them care what it's called .
folks in northern florida, might want to cover your tender plants tonight just in case....................
yep FROST warning alright for tonight.............
...FROM 3 AM EST /2 AM CST/ TO 8 AM EST
/7 AM CST/ FRIDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN TALLAHASSEE HAS ISSUED A FROST
ADVISORY...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 3 AM EST /2 AM CST/ TO 8 AM
EST /7 AM CST/ FRIDAY.

* TEMPERATURE...MINIMUM TEMPERATURES IN THE MID 30S AROUND
SUNRISE. PATCHY FROST IS LIKELY TO FORM IN THE NORMALLY COLDEST
INLAND LOCATIONS...AWAY FROM THE BEACHES AND CITIES. FROST IS
MORE LIKELY TO FORM IN LOW LYING AREAS...IN OPEN FIELDS.

* IMPACTS...WHILE THIS IS UNLIKELY TO BE A WIDESPREAD KILLING
FROST...THERE IS ENOUGH RISK TO WARRANT PROTECTING SENSITIVE
PLANTS.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A FROST ADVISORY MEANS THAT FROST IS POSSIBLE. SENSITIVE OUTDOOR
PLANTS MAY BE KILLED IF LEFT UNCOVERED.
112. MTWX
Quoting LargoFl:
I think i posted a blizzard warning earlier from MT nws


The advisories are on here, but the current weather data is not available from the Great Falls NWS.
113. MTWX
Quoting LargoFl:
wow i remember those days longggg ago..its one reason i moved to florida


Part of the reason I stayed in Mississippi... ;)
Quoting MTWX:


The advisories are on here, but the current weather data is not available from the Great Falls NWS.
looks like the whole state is covered in warnings up there..URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREAT FALLS MT
1148 AM MST THU NOV 8 2012

MTZ011-013-050-051-090500-
/O.CON.KTFX.BZ.W.0004.000000T0000Z-121110T1200Z/
/O.CON.KTFX.WS.W.0018.000000T0000Z-121110T1800Z/
HILL-CHOUTEAU-JUDITH BASIN-FERGUS-
INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING LOCATIONS...HAVRE...BIG SANDY...
FORT BENTON...STANFORD...LEWISTOWN...LEWISTOWN DIVIDE
1148 AM MST THU NOV 8 2012

...BLIZZARD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 5 AM MST SATURDAY FOR
AREAS MAINLY EAST OF A LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL LINE...
...WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 11 AM MST
SATURDAY FOR AREAS WEST OF A LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL...

A WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 11 AM MST SATURDAY
FOR AREAS WEST OF A LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL. A BLIZZARD
WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 5 AM MST SATURDAY FOR AREAS MAINLY
EAST OF A LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL LINE.

* TIMING: SNOW...HEAVY AT TIMES...WILL CONTINUE TO AFFECT CENTRAL
MONTANA THROUGH TODAY. THE SNOW WILL SPREAD NORTHWARD INTO THE
HAVRE AREA BY 2 PM. STRONG EAST WINDS ARE ALSO
EXPECTED...CREATING BLIZZARD CONDITIONS...ESPECIALLY EAST OF A
LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL.

* SNOW ACCUMULATIONS: TOTAL SNOW ACCUMULATIONS THROUGH SATURDAY
MORNING OF 8 TO 12 INCHES ARE EXPECTED AT LOWER
ELEVATIONS...WITH 10 TO 20 INCHES EXPECTED IN THE MOUNTAINS.

* WINDS: EAST WINDS 20 TO 30 MPH...WITH GUSTS TO 35 MPH WILL
CREATE SIGNIFICANT BLOWING AND DRIFTING OF THE SNOW.

* VISIBILITY: VISIBILITIES WILL BE REDUCED TO LESS THAN ONE
QUARTER OF A MILE AT TIMES IN HEAVY SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW.

* IMPACTS: DANGEROUS TRAVEL CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED FROM THIS
AFTERNOON THROUGH FRIDAY AFTERNOON. EXPECT ROADWAYS TO QUICKLY
ICE OVER AFTER SUNSET TODAY. THOSE SPENDING TIME OUTDOORS NEED
TO BE PREPARED FOR RAPIDLY CHANGING AND SEVERE WINTER
CONDITIONS.

* LOCATIONS AFFECTED INCLUDE: STANFORD...LEWISTOWN...LEWISTOWN
DIVIDE...BIG SANDY...FORT BENTON AND HAVRE.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A BLIZZARD WARNING MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHER CONDITIONS ARE
EXPECTED OR OCCURRING. FALLING AND BLOWING SNOW WITH STRONG WINDS
AND POOR VISIBILITIES ARE LIKELY. THIS WILL LEAD TO WHITEOUT
CONDITIONS...MAKING TRAVEL EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. DO NOT TRAVEL. IF
YOU MUST TRAVEL...HAVE A WINTER SURVIVAL KIT WITH YOU. IF YOU GET
STRANDED...STAY WITH YOUR VEHICLE.

FOR SPECIFIC ROAD AND TRAVEL CONDITIONS IN MONTANA...DIAL 5 1 1.

&&

$$
Quoting MTWX:


Part of the reason I stayed in Mississippi... ;)
wow just found this..be careful monday in mississippi...........
117. MTWX
Quoting LargoFl:
looks like the whole state is covered in warnings up there..URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREAT FALLS MT
1148 AM MST THU NOV 8 2012

MTZ011-013-050-051-090500-
/O.CON.KTFX.BZ.W.0004.000000T0000Z-121110T1200Z/
/O.CON.KTFX.WS.W.0018.000000T0000Z-121110T1800Z/
HILL-CHOUTEAU-JUDITH BASIN-FERGUS-
INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING LOCATIONS...HAVRE...BIG SANDY...
FORT BENTON...STANFORD...LEWISTOWN...LEWISTOWN DIVIDE
1148 AM MST THU NOV 8 2012

...BLIZZARD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 5 AM MST SATURDAY FOR
AREAS MAINLY EAST OF A LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL LINE...
...WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 11 AM MST
SATURDAY FOR AREAS WEST OF A LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL...

A WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 11 AM MST SATURDAY
FOR AREAS WEST OF A LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL. A BLIZZARD
WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 5 AM MST SATURDAY FOR AREAS MAINLY
EAST OF A LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL LINE.

* TIMING: SNOW...HEAVY AT TIMES...WILL CONTINUE TO AFFECT CENTRAL
MONTANA THROUGH TODAY. THE SNOW WILL SPREAD NORTHWARD INTO THE
HAVRE AREA BY 2 PM. STRONG EAST WINDS ARE ALSO
EXPECTED...CREATING BLIZZARD CONDITIONS...ESPECIALLY EAST OF A
LINE FROM KREMLIN TO GARNEILL.

* SNOW ACCUMULATIONS: TOTAL SNOW ACCUMULATIONS THROUGH SATURDAY
MORNING OF 8 TO 12 INCHES ARE EXPECTED AT LOWER
ELEVATIONS...WITH 10 TO 20 INCHES EXPECTED IN THE MOUNTAINS.

* WINDS: EAST WINDS 20 TO 30 MPH...WITH GUSTS TO 35 MPH WILL
CREATE SIGNIFICANT BLOWING AND DRIFTING OF THE SNOW.

* VISIBILITY: VISIBILITIES WILL BE REDUCED TO LESS THAN ONE
QUARTER OF A MILE AT TIMES IN HEAVY SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW.

* IMPACTS: DANGEROUS TRAVEL CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED FROM THIS
AFTERNOON THROUGH FRIDAY AFTERNOON. EXPECT ROADWAYS TO QUICKLY
ICE OVER AFTER SUNSET TODAY. THOSE SPENDING TIME OUTDOORS NEED
TO BE PREPARED FOR RAPIDLY CHANGING AND SEVERE WINTER
CONDITIONS.

* LOCATIONS AFFECTED INCLUDE: STANFORD...LEWISTOWN...LEWISTOWN
DIVIDE...BIG SANDY...FORT BENTON AND HAVRE.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A BLIZZARD WARNING MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHER CONDITIONS ARE
EXPECTED OR OCCURRING. FALLING AND BLOWING SNOW WITH STRONG WINDS
AND POOR VISIBILITIES ARE LIKELY. THIS WILL LEAD TO WHITEOUT
CONDITIONS...MAKING TRAVEL EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. DO NOT TRAVEL. IF
YOU MUST TRAVEL...HAVE A WINTER SURVIVAL KIT WITH YOU. IF YOU GET
STRANDED...STAY WITH YOUR VEHICLE.

FOR SPECIFIC ROAD AND TRAVEL CONDITIONS IN MONTANA...DIAL 5 1 1.

&&

$$


It is... Between Winter Storm Watches/Warnings and Blizzard Warnings currently every county in the state is covered.
Texas also..Monday..guess this is a Strong cold front going to hit the whole gulf coast states start of next week...
119. MTWX
Quoting LargoFl:


Been watching it. Will have to wait and see how it evolves across the plains on Saturday... Will likely be linear in nature with the biggest risk being strong winds.
yeah I get it also next week...............
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:



Actually Dr Master's stated on his own that he liked the idea of naming storms.
It doesn't hurt using the name rather than just "the noreaster" or "the blizzard"
honestly, i didn't take him at his word. i found that statement to be a political softening of the backlash.. but i'm not going to put words in His mouth, just expressing my opinion...
i find Jeff to be very thorough in his analysis and respect toward classification criteria.. this just doesn't fit that bill i think.


No Kidding.
Quoting 900MB:


Yeah, c'mon! Brutus? Really? With a name like that it should be one for the ages! But, likely wont be.


Just wait for winter storm Zeus...
Quoting MTWX:


The advisories are on here, but the current weather data is not available from the Great Falls NWS.


Is this what your looking for
Quoting MTWX:


Been watching it. Will have to wait and see how it evolves across the plains on Saturday... Will likely be linear in nature with the biggest risk being strong winds.
I think it would be wonderful if people from other states, posted their weather alerts and tell us how the weather is in Their states..like we do in florida on here and along the gulf coast...one person awhile ago, during the hurricane season asked why so many floridians on here..its because we..come in here..talking about OUR weather..it would be great if the western and northern state folks came in here and did the same huh..would make for a well rounded blog..look we even have australia and some from europe posting here..where are the western state people? lol...just a wish from me i guess..should be doc asking this not me, im just a poster like everyone else..just long ago i used to run several what we called back then..newsgroups..before blogs came out and i like to post alot
Quoting LostTomorrows:
I don't mind winter storms being named, in fact it is a good idea.
I just mind their choice of names and their reasoning for doing it. It almost makes fun of the other processes by which storms are being named (ie: hurricanes, or winter storms in Europe).

And hooray! I missed the colourful circles on the NHC tropical outlook pages; welcome, possible future Valerie.


Here is one tid bit to think about with named winter storms and it just hit me today.

Think of all the things that are limited because of a named tropical storm. You can't buy a house when a named storm is out there because you cannot get insurance. Your deductibles are HIGHER when damage is caused by a named storm.

Looks like some more people are getting ready to get the same treatment as we do on the coast for a wind/rain event.

Thanks TWC for making insurance unaffordable and payouts to fix damage a lot less.
Newark, N.Y. is in the NW part of the state near Rochester. Should that be Newark, N.J.?
Quoting LargoFl:
I think it would be wonderful if people from other states, posted their weather alerts and tell us how the weather is in Their states..like we do in florida on here and along the gulf coast...one person awhile ago, during the hurricane season asked why so many floridians on here..its because we..come in here..talking about OUR weather..it would be great if the western and northern state folks came in here and did the same huh..would make for a well rounded blog..look we even have australia and some from europe posting here..where are the western state people? lol...just a wish from me i guess..should be doc asking this not me, im just a poster like everyone else..just long ago i used to run several what we called back then..newsgroups..before blogs came out and i like to post alot


We do post our daily weather but in our blogs .. I post everyday .. but many on here never look at other blogs or just their friends on here .. so if you would like to see weather from up here in the north .. Look Around ...
I have to tell you, I find it humorously ironic that there have been--literally--hundreds of comments on this board discussing the Weather Channel and its decision to name certain winter storms, and questioning why they did it. TWC is a business; the more people talk about them, the better. So it seems to me that the best way to make sure they continue naming winter storms is to endlessly talk about them doing so. There's an old adage that holds true in most cases: there's no such thing as bad publicity. And it definitely holds true here.

I want to go on record again as stating that I think TWC's naming of certain winter storms is a great and logical practice, and something long overdue. I've always found the haphazard nature of cutesy portmanteaus such as "Snowmageddon" and "Snowtober" to be silly and confusing and maybe a little too precious. Now that the nation's largest and best-known non-governmental weather provider has brought some common sense to the process, only good can come out of it. I predict that the endless griping will stop, and the practice will be adopted by an increasing number of people as time goes by.
Quoting whitewabit:


We do post our daily weather but in our blogs .. I post everyday .. but many on here never look at other blogs or just their friends on here .. so if you would like to see weather from up here in the north .. Look Around ...
yes but this blog being i guess the main one, would be nice if they came here as well no?..well anyway..it was just a thought
pretty big winter storm out there huh............
Quoting Dakster:


Here is one tid bit to think about with named winter storms and it just hit me today.

Think of all the things that are limited because of a named tropical storm. You can't buy a house when a named storm is out there because you cannot get insurance. Your deductibles are HIGHER when damage is caused by a named storm.

Looks like some more people are getting ready to get the same treatment as we do on the coast for a wind/rain event.

Thanks TWC for making insurance unaffordable and payouts to fix damage a lot less.

Do you also blame the NHC for naming storms and raising insurance rates?

As far as naming storms reducing awareness: everyone remember Hurricane Gordon this year? How about Kirk? Oscar? Will people not listen to hurricane warnings now because they named a storm that didn't hit anywhere?
Quoting LargoFl:
pretty big winter storm out there huh............


I'm in the path of the Brutus, but I should remain in the warm sector, so I could get heavy rain and some thunderstorms, maybe some wind. But the warm southernly wind wont allow snow where I am.
The New Madrid seismic zone of southeast Missouri and adjacent States is the most seismically active in North America east of the Rockies. During the winter of 1811-1812 three very large earthquakes devastated the area and were felt throughout most of the Nation. They occurred a few weeks apart on December 16, January 23, and February 7. Hundreds of aftershocks, some severely damaging by themselves, continued for years. Prehistoric earthquakes similar in size to those of 1811-1812 occurred in the middle 1400's and around 900 A.D. Strong, damaging earthquakes struck the southwestern end of the seismic zone near Marked Tree, Arkansas in 1843 (magnitude 6.3), and the northeastern end near Charleston, Missouri in 1895 (magnitude 6.6). Since 1900, moderately damaging earthquakes have struck the seismic zone every few decades. About twice a year people feel still smaller earthquakes that do not cause damage.
136. atris
Quoting Neapolitan:
I have to tell you, I find it humorously ironic that there have been--literally--hundreds of comments on this board discussing the Weather Channel and its decision to name certain winter storms, and questioning why they did it. TWC is a business; the more people talk about them, the better. So it seems to me that the best way to make sure they continue naming winter storms is to endlessly talk about them doing so. There's an old adage that holds true in most cases: there's no such thing as bad publicity. And it definitely holds true here.

I want to go on record again as stating that I think TWC's naming of certain winter storms is a great and logical practice, and something long overdue. I've always found the haphazard nature of cutesy portmanteaus such as "Snowmageddon" and "Snowtober" to be silly and confusing and maybe a little too precious. Now that the nation's largest and best-known non-governmental weather provider has brought some common sense to the process, only good can come out of it. I predict that the endless griping will stop, and the practice will be adopted by an increasing number of people as time goes by.


But not when so many people see it as a publicity seeking idea .And with the most important weather service, the National Weather Service having warned their staff ,that it was not a practice that their staff are allowed to adopt, I will be respecting the NWS wishes .

But I guess some of people on here are purists and have faith in the NWS and like to shop around for their weather information.
137. MTWX
Quoting whitewabit:


Is this what your looking for


That's the NWS page... Was just curious why the weather station data (current conditions) were not used on WU...

Like to keep my open windows/tabs to a minimum..

Right now I have 7 tabs open from various sources... All weather related... I probably should get a life huh??? ;)
Quoting FunnelVortex:


I'm in the path of the Brutus, but I should remain in the warm sector, so I could get heavy rain and some thunderstorms, maybe some wind. But the warm southernly wind wont allow snow where I am.
thats good to hear, storm sure looks powerful
Quoting MTWX:


That's the NWS page... Was just curious why the weather station data (current conditions) were not used on WU...

Like to keep my open windows/tabs to a minimum..

Right now I have 7 tabs open from various sources... All weather related... I probably should get a life huh??? ;)


You need more computers ...
Quoting LargoFl:
thats good to hear, storm sure looks powerful


Yeah, but I could be dealing with some flooding issues and mud. There is also the slight chance of severe with that arctic air aloft. I'm not worried about tornadoes, so far the only threats are mainly rain and small hail.
4) How much bottles water should you have on hand as part of your emergency supplies?

a) 6-pack of bottles is fine
b) None. Water will continue to work
c) 1 gallon of water per person per day
Big blob in the east Pacific



...POTENT PACIFIC STORM SYSTEM TO IMPACT NEW MEXICO FRIDAY THROUGH
THE WEEKEND...

A VIGOROUS STORM SYSTEM ON THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST COAST WILL
STRENGTHEN AS IT SWEEPS THROUGH THE WESTERN UNITED STATES FRIDAY
THROUGH THE WEEKEND. TO NEW MEXICO IT WILL BRING MUCH COLDER
TEMPERATURES...STRONG SOUTHWEST WINDS AND ACCUMULATING SNOW IN
WESTERN AND NORTHERN AREAS.

RAIN SHOWERS AND HIGH TERRAIN SNOW SHOWERS WILL DEVELOP ALONG
AND WEST OF THE CENTRAL MOUNTAIN CHAIN TONIGHT AND FRIDAY AS THE SLOW
MOVING SYSTEM APPROACHES. STRONG WINDS WILL ALSO DEVELOP
FRIDAY AFTERNOON WITH GUSTS POTENTIALLY REACHING 50 MPH ACROSS THE
WESTERN MOUNTAINS AND PLATEAU INCLUDING THE GALLUP AREA.

WINTRY PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN IN EARNEST FRIDAY NIGHT AND
SATURDAY AS A COLD FRONT MOVES THROUGH THE STATE FROM THE WEST.
PERIODS OF ACCUMULATING SNOW WILL BE POSSIBLE ACROSS THE WESTERN
AND NORTHERN MOUNTAINS...NORTHWEST PLATEAU AND UPPER RIO GRANDE
VALLEY THROUGH SUNDAY...BUT THE HEAVIEST ACCUMULATIONS MAY COME AS
THE COLD FRONT CROSSES ON SATURDAY. BY SUNDAY MORNING...WEST
FACING SLOPES OF THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS MAY RECEIVE SEVERAL INCHES OF
FRESH SNOW COVER...WITH A FEW INCHES ELSEWHERE. STRONG WINDS WILL
ALSO PERSIST FRIDAY NIGHT IN THE MOUNTAINS...THEN SHIFT TO THE AREA
ALONG AND EAST OF THE CENTRAL MOUNTAIN CHAIN SATURDAY. WIND GUSTS
MAY AGAIN REACH 50 MPH SATURDAY IN THE EAST...AND POTENTIALLY NEAR
60 MPH IN THE SOUTH CENTRAL MOUNTAINS.

PRECIPITATION SHOULD BEGIN TO DIMINISH ACROSS THE FORECAST AREA
LATE SUNDAY AND SUNDAY NIGHT AS THE UPPER LEVEL TROUGH PASSES ONTO
THE GREAT PLAINS. AFTER HIGH TEMPERATURES 10 TO 20 DEGREES ABOVE
NORMAL TODAY...READINGS WILL PLUMMET TO 5 TO 20 DEGREES BELOW
NORMAL BY SUNDAY. WITH A FRESH BLANKET OF SNOW COVER AND CLEARING
SKIES...LOW TEMPERATURES SUNDAY NIGHT WILL CRATER TO NEAR ZERO
IN PARTS OF THE WESTERN AND NORTHERN MOUNTAINS...WITH MAINLY
TEENS AT LOWER ELEVATIONS OF THE WEST AND NORTH.

THOSE WITH TRAVEL AND OUTDOOR PLANS ACROSS NORTHERN AND CENTRAL NEW
MEXICO OVER THE WEEKEND ARE ENCOURAGED TO MONITOR THE LATEST WEATHER
FORECASTS FOR UPDATES ON THIS POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS WINTER WEATHER
SYSTEM. MORE DETAILED INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND ONLINE AT
WWW.WEATHER.GOV/ABQ...VIA NOAA WEATHER RADIO OR YOUR FAVORITE
MEDIA OUTLET.

$$
146. MTWX
Possibility of a "Snownado"???

Decent rotation on storm relative...

WU with meso tag

Great Falls Storm Relative Velocities


Look at that setup, the winds are going to be howling across the plains and there is going to be a good southernly inflow.
Quoting Neapolitan:
I have to tell you, I find it humorously ironic that there have been--literally--hundreds of comments on this board discussing the Weather Channel and its decision to name certain winter storms, and questioning why they did it. TWC is a business; the more people talk about them, the better. So it seems to me that the best way to make sure they continue naming winter storms is to endlessly talk about them doing so. There's an old adage that holds true in most cases: there's no such thing as bad publicity. And it definitely holds true here.

I want to go on record again as stating that I think TWC's naming of certain winter storms is a great and logical practice, and something long overdue. I've always found the haphazard nature of cutesy portmanteaus such as "Snowmageddon" and "Snowtober" to be silly and confusing and maybe a little too precious. Now that the nation's largest and best-known non-governmental weather provider has brought some common sense to the process, only good can come out of it. I predict that the endless griping will stop, and the practice will be adopted by an increasing number of people as time goes by.


If I didn't know any better it would seem you put some sort of stock into the company.I've taken TWC off of my cable provider and haven't had no complaints since.The names are ugly Greek names and it won't be official until the NWS says so.
Quoting LargoFl:
4) How much bottles water should you have on hand as part of your emergency supplies?

a) 6-pack of bottles is fine
b) None. Water will continue to work
c) 1 gallon of water per person per day
Are you a teacher? LOL
Come on people its really cool to name winter storms let them be.:)
Quoting FunnelVortex:


Look at that setup, the winds are going to be howling across the plains and there is going to be a good southernly inflow.


yep,thats going to pump some nice warm air up to us in the northeast.Boy do we need it,even temporarily
Quoting Neapolitan:
I have to tell you, I find it humorously ironic that there have been--literally--hundreds of comments on this board discussing the Weather Channel and its decision to name certain winter storms, and questioning why they did it. TWC is a business; the more people talk about them, the better. So it seems to me that the best way to make sure they continue naming winter storms is to endlessly talk about them doing so. There's an old adage that holds true in most cases: there's no such thing as bad publicity. And it definitely holds true here.

I want to go on record again as stating that I think TWC's naming of certain winter storms is a great and logical practice, and something long overdue. I've always found the haphazard nature of cutesy portmanteaus such as "Snowmageddon" and "Snowtober" to be silly and confusing and maybe a little too precious. Now that the nation's largest and best-known non-governmental weather provider has brought some common sense to the process, only good can come out of it. I predict that the endless griping will stop, and the practice will be adopted by an increasing number of people as time goes by.
You wore out your lips backing up the private owners of the site, but no thanks. I'll stick with the NWS and their science rather than the nebulous definitions TWC gives for naming a storm.
.
It matters not what bloggers say as well. This little experiment will live or die depending on what(if any) other media outlets use it. We'll see how that goes over the winter. I expect the name idea by TWC will be scrapped sooner than later.
I haven't had to deal with the insurance issue of named storms. that sounds financially culpable.

What I do like is having names that mean something. Like highway exits based on mileage rather than an ordinal number that changes with the addition of one exit, Having alphabetic storm names gives you a sense of their relative timing. If they follow themes consistently, you could figure out their year too.
I couldn't tell you when Snowmageddon happened but I have a clue about snowtober, and frankenstorm.

2cents.
Quoting washingtonian115:


If I didn't know any better it would seem you put some sort of stock into the company.I've taken TWC off of my cable provider and haven't had no complaints since.The names are ugly Greek names and it won't be official until the NWS says so.
washi.Your new avatar brings back a memory..... That was really the first movie I had ever seen that really scared the beejeebies out of me... And I do agree with your post completely.
hi guys.....
i see we have winter storms athena and brutus
i also see the nhc put a 10% near cape verde.....
Quoting flcanes:
hi guys.....
i see we have winter storms athena and brutus
i also see the nhc put a 10% near cape verde.....
flcanes... Too much shear out there for the Cape Verde storm
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
washi.Your new avatar brings back a memory..... That was really the first movie I had ever seen that really scared the beejeebies out of me... And I do agree with your post completely.
If the NWS were naming these then I wouldn't be so against it because it's official.But TWC...As I've said before I can't really complain to much about them since I took them off of my cable.I feel as though some people are now defending them because WU joined up with them.No names will be said...
I just read that Cyndi Lauper lost her uncle in Sandy. It's so sad that the deaths that may be prevented can still happen.Some from ignorance, some from stupidity(hurricane parties) and some from non-believers....
From a story about Sandy:

"In particular, Cuomo noted New York City's problems, largely due to the surge of seawater that inundated utilities lying 15 to 20 stories below ground.

"'That's a brilliant engineering masterpiece, yes, but if Manhattan floods, you flood all that infrastructure,' he said. 'We don't even have a way to pump it out.'"
Quoting washingtonian115:
If the NWS were naming these then I wouldn't be so against it because it's official.But TWC...As I've said before I can't really complain to much about them since I took them off of my cable.I feel as though some people are now defending them because WU joined up with them.No names will be said...
I think we all have the names recorded in our mind
Quoting LargoFl:
yes but this blog being i guess the main one, would be nice if they came here as well no?..well anyway..it was just a thought
I agree Largo -- I enjoy the posts from the folks that give a brief description of what is actually happening in their area. It is interesting to see how the weather reports match up with the weather on the ground. Plus, sometimes I only have time to take a quick peek at the blog -- but not enough time to browse through the individual blogs. You are relatively near where my daughter lives and so it is always nice to see what the weather is like in your area.
Quoting HondosGirl:
I agree Largo -- I enjoy the posts from the folks that give a brief description of what is actually happening in their area. It is interesting to see how the weather reports match up with the weather on the ground. Plus, sometimes I only have time to take a quick peek at the blog -- but not enough time to browse through the individual blogs. You are relatively near where my daughter lives and so it is always nice to see what the weather is like in your area.
Hondo..........Largo does a fantastic job keeping us all informed
I try to Largo, esp if something notable happening. Right now, not so much - 53 w/ 40 dew point, 30.12", S wind @ 11 - guess that what's supposed to get us up to 70 on Sat in S Central IL.
Quoting Grothar:
Big blob in the east Pacific





Big blob indeed. Me thinks he's mad that Athena and Brutus are refered to by name and he's just well... Mr. Blob.
How many winter storms are there over the US each year?
Well I don't really care to much to talk about my weather because no one cares and not many people live near me that are regulars on here.
Quoting kwgirl:
Are you a teacher? LOL
..LOL no, just like to keep the blog interesting yet informative..by the way the answer is?....LOL
Hi guys.... Im now working on Brutus forecast...

I'll leave you with this amazing sunset... at my mom's house in Norwalk, CT
yep..it snowed 5" here


as always...click on the pic for a better view
Quoting washingtonian115:
Well I don't really care to much to talk about my weather because no one cares and not many people live near me that are regulars on here.

There are not a lot of Northerners on here in general. Anyway a cool down is expected next week and even the possibility of snow again for me in MI.
Quoting LargoFl:
4) How much bottles water should you have on hand as part of your emergency supplies?

a) 6-pack of bottles is fine
b) None. Water will continue to work
c) 1 gallon of water per person per day


1 gallon of water per person per day, although, if it's summer, that should be increased to 1.5 gallons of water per person per day.


Is this thing ever going to move? End of day two and it still sounds like a freight train outside. Last night both my husband and I had storm dreams because the noise of the wind kept creeping into our dreams while we slept.
Quoting wxchaser97:

There are not a lot of Northerners on here in general. Anyway a cool down is expected next week and even the possibility of snow again for me in MI.
Well on the CPC map it showed a warming trend here through the weekend and beyond it would seem.
Quoting washingtonian115:
Well on the CPC map it showed a warming trend here through the weekend and beyond it would seem.

That is true, but I am also looking at the NWS. They show cooler temps and even some snow in 5-6 days.
Monday Night Rain and snow showers likely. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 35.
Tuesday A slight chance of snow showers. Partly sunny, with a high near 43.
Quoting FunnelVortex:


I honestly dont know why they are so against it.

I think the people complaining are just being stupid.




Those who are not for naming winter storms are merely "stupid". Wow, you put a lot of though into that one...

How is it stupid? Really? I guess the NWS is also "stupid" as well?
Quoting Jedkins01:




Those who are not for naming winter storms are merely "stupid". Wow, you put a lot of though into that one...

How is it stupid? Really? I guess the NWS is also "stupid" as well?
I could care less either way.......BUT, I do think the word stupid does not apply.......Just my thought
Yes, it's soo much easier and scientific to constantly say, "That winter storm in Montana", as opposed to just "Brutus". Also, this is a storm *system*, and is affecting far more than just Montana.

Naming it is quicker, more accurate, easier, and more fun, and I'm thinking within a few years the NWS will see that and come around. I understand the few objections to it, but feel they are overstated, and the value of a simple label for a dangerous storm system far outweighs the guestimated problems that it might cause.

Jo
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
I could care less either way.......BUT, I do think the word stupid does not apply.......Just my thought
right...calling a gov. agency stupid is not cool....

Quoting Jedkins01:




Those who are not for naming winter storms are merely "stupid". Wow, you put a lot of though into that one...

How is it stupid? Really? I guess the NWS is also "stupid" as well?
My 4 year old beautiful grand-daughter goes to "time out" for saying "Stupid"
great for TWC if bad publicity is 'good' publicity.. certainly works for America's #1 Cable News Network.. but i know my griping briefly, in light of Dr. Master's blog title (thereby topic pertaining), is certainly not going to raise or minimize profits for TWC.
the 'overdue' nature of this, if even partially aiding against some ridiculous media monikers of major winter storm events of lately, is not an argument i can comprehend given the statements and scientific pursuits of the NWS. i think it's grandstanding at best.
If it works for BMN why not for TWC?
Great logical response to why man-made global warming is illogical.

First, since we can't even get a 10-day forecast model to produce accurate results, we should be highly suspect of the results coming from a 10-month, 10-year, and/or especially a 10-decade or longer climate model. These models operate off of coefficients that can be easily tweaked one way or the other with little if any data to support these changes. Second, under the concept of uniform global warming, the Earth's atmosphere warms evenly. This increase in temperature means that the atmosphere could hold MORE, not less, water vapor. More available water vapor would mean MORE rainfall, not less rainfall. Since the atmosphere would warm uniformly, why should the Walker Circulation be changed/altered if it, too, warms uniformly??? These allegations make no physical sense. Lastly, if global warming increases temperatures, and when temperatures rise the air expands, and when the air expands it becomes capable of holding MORE water vapor, and more water vapor -- which, by the way, is the GREATEST greenhouse gas bar far at about 75% -- means more clouds and precipitation would be produced, and more clouds would mean LESS not more solar radiation reaching Earth's surface...and less solar insolation would mean COOLING. So the pattern of global warming is cyclical and is not human-induced.
WINTER WEATHER UPDATE
____________________________________________

Major winter storm BRUTUS




click on the pic for larger view and for all details...no virus risk at all...lol

Quoting bappit:
How many winter storms are there over the US each year?


Interesting question... and if this winter storm-naming scheme is consistent from storm to storm and season to season, we will soon enough always have an idea of how "busy" or "quiet" our wintry season is, as we do now with the naming of tropical storms.
Quoting SunriseSteeda:


Interesting question... and if this winter storm-naming scheme is consistent from storm to storm and season to season, we will soon enough always have an idea of how "busy" or "quiet" our wintry season is, as we do now with the naming of tropical storms.

It only takes one.
it's really a shame that you have no idea what you're talking about.
more clouds and vapor means MORE rain - yes it does. but it also means abnormal rain (climatologically speaking). so much more in some places, much less in others, but more ON AVERAGE.
same with heat - more water vapor equals more solar energy retained, not less. it doesn't have to reach the 'surface' - just the atmosphere. and it might be colder in some spots, and warmer in others, but on AVERAGE, there is more heat.
your grasp of the physical mechanics are lacking, as is your distinction between climate and weather. climate IS NOT weather. sheesh. our 10-day WEATHER forecasts have no bearing whatsoever on the climate models.

Quoting jabjb2:
Great logical response to why man-made global warming is illogical.

First, since we can't even get a 10-day forecast model to produce accurate results, we should be highly suspect of the results coming from a 10-month, 10-year, and/or especially a 10-decade or longer climate model. These models operate off of coefficients that can be easily tweaked one way or the other with little if any data to support these changes. Second, under the concept of uniform global warming, the Earth's atmosphere warms evenly. This increase in temperature means that the atmosphere could hold MORE, not less, water vapor. More available water vapor would mean MORE rainfall, not less rainfall. Since the atmosphere would warm uniformly, why should the Walker Circulation be changed/altered if it, too, warms uniformly??? These allegations make no physical sense. Lastly, if global warming increases temperatures, and when temperatures rise the air expands, and when the air expands it becomes capable of holding MORE water vapor, and more water vapor -- which, by the way, is the GREATEST greenhouse gas bar far at about 75% -- means more clouds and precipitation would be produced, and more clouds would mean LESS not more solar radiation reaching Earth's surface...and less solar insolation would mean COOLING. So the pattern of global warming is cyclical and is not human-induced.
I think our wintry season is busy if we get sleet one afternoon.
I didn't even know wikipedia had this up on the Hurricane season site



click for bigger pic
Quoting FunnelVortex:


I honestly dont know why they are so against it.

I think the people complaining are just being stupid.

Last night there was a tweet from Jim Cantore. In his tweet he said, we now have Winter Storm Brutus, then he linked to NWS/NOAA products which didn't mention the name Brutus, just winter storm. This could very well confuse people.

Also, what if TWC name a winter storm and they hype it up then it doesn't materialise like they said it would, and later on in winter they do it again. Then in summer, they hype up a hurricane, named by the NHC, like they did with Irene and people think, oh it's just TWC hyping a storm again. But the Hurricane is like a Sandy or an Ike, and people don't take it serious enough like they did with Sandy cause of what they and the media did with Irene, and more peoples lives are lost due to this over-hyping.

This is my fear with this naming of winter storms for marketing purposes. But I must admit, naming storms after beers sounds like a good idea(just joking).
I think the wintry season is busy up north if I hear about city budgets failing from the cost of snow removal.
You don't even know who wrote this do you? Stacy Stewart from NHC did and I trust what he says any day over anything anyone on this site does.
Quoting evilpenguinshan:
it's really a shame that you have no idea what you're talking about.
more clouds and vapor means MORE rain - yes it does. but it also means abnormal rain (climatologically speaking). so much more in some places, much less in others, but more ON AVERAGE.
same with heat - more water vapor equals more solar energy retained, not less. it doesn't have to reach the 'surface' - just the atmosphere. and it might be colder in some spots, and warmer in others, but on AVERAGE, there is more heat.
your grasp of the physical mechanics are lacking, as is your distinction between climate and weather. climate IS NOT weather. sheesh. our 10-day WEATHER forecasts have no bearing whatsoever on the climate models.

My opinion on this whole naming winter storms thing is that they should do it. I mean it might help people take notice about it. I think if people hear "Winter Storm Athena's gonna hit us!" then they will likely prepare more than hearing "Hey we're getting snow in a few days."
193. beell
This just in:
BRUTUS CAPTURES ATHENA IN NEGATIVE TILT POSITION
I think jabjb2 is a TWC sock puppet trying to change the subject.
The GFS is beginning to show noteworthy consistency on backing a big hybrid storm of tropical origins into the NE between the 21-23 of November. It also shows some interaction with another powerful low over the US:

This is at 312 hours. Still a long ways off despite the consistency:



Certainly this would be a nightmare if it verified though.
Quoting beell:
This just in:
BRUTUS CAPTURES ATHENA IN NEGATIVE TILT POSITION

lol
Well it is starting to get consistent... It would not be good to get a 1 2 3 hit on the NE.
372hrs, lots of cold air this time.
Quoting FtMyersgal:

That pic shows the change in seasons real well.
Quoting wxchaser97:

There are not a lot of Northerners on here in general. Anyway a cool down is expected next week and even the possibility of snow again for me in MI.


I bet there are more than you realize. Many, like me, don't comment much because we don't do predictions, and because we're not in hurricane-prone areas.
I post when we have notable weather around St. Louis, and just make random comments (mostly jokes) from time to time, but I generally keep my thoughts to myself.

Doesn't mean I don't read avidly, every day. Oh, and I'm a plusser. I plus a lot. :)
Quoting flibinite:
Yes, it's soo much easier and scientific to constantly say, "That winter storm in Montana", as opposed to just "Brutus". Also, this is a storm *system*, and is affecting far more than just Montana.

Naming it is quicker, more accurate, easier, and more fun, and I'm thinking within a few years the NWS will see that and come around. I understand the few objections to it, but feel they are overstated, and the value of a simple label for a dangerous storm system far outweighs the guestimated problems that it might cause.

Jo

Ha! Now I've got to go to their website to see where the heck Brutus is if I see a headline. At least the NWS tells me straight up.
The Barometer Bob Show for November 8, 2012.

Guest will be Rick Schwartz, author of Hurricanes and the Middle Atlantic States.
We will discuss what storms that have affected the Middle Atlantic had any similarity to "Sandy". Listen Live and Please share your views.

Is there a potential for Severe Weather this week, the Tropics, and more.

Join us in Storm Chat during the show and feel free to call in via the toll free number (1-866-931-8437) or Skype (barometerbob or 904-257-0234).

You can watch the show live beginning at HurricaneHollow.com. Once again Join us in Storm Chat and feel free to call into the show.
The show starts at 8PM EST/7PM CST
Quoting SherwoodSpirit:


I bet there are more than you realize. Many, like me, don't comment much because we don't do predictions, and because we're not in hurricane-prone areas.
I post when we have notable weather around St. Louis, and just make random comments (mostly jokes) from time to time, but I generally keep my thoughts to myself.

Doesn't mean I don't read avidly, every day. Oh, and I'm a plusser. I plus a lot. :)

+1
Also the odds of you or me getting a hurricane are next to nothing. I know there are northerners here, just there are more people from the south.
Quoting wxchaser97:

There are not a lot of Northerners on here in general. Anyway a cool down is expected next week and even the possibility of snow again for me in MI.


"northerners"... LOL
Quoting flibinite:
Yes, it's soo much easier and scientific to constantly say, "That winter storm in Montana", as opposed to just "Brutus". Also, this is a storm *system*, and is affecting far more than just Montana.

Naming it is quicker, more accurate, easier, and more fun, and I'm thinking within a few years the NWS will see that and come around. I understand the few objections to it, but feel they are overstated, and the value of a simple label for a dangerous storm system far outweighs the guestimated problems that it might cause.

Jo


I agree with Jo. Can't see what all the fuss is about. It's not like somebody has stolen their dogs or anything. If somebody doesn't want to call it Brutus, call it that storm out in Montana.
What is relevant is the danger, sorrow, and hazardous weather that Brutus or "that storm in Montana" represent. That's what gets my attentiona nd concern. And we do track our loved ones and friends who live in those regions. So everybody try to stay warm and safe.
Quoting Dragod66:


"northerners"... LOL

Stupid spell check/auto correct made the n capital...
Also, what else was I supposed to say?
Quoting beell:
This just in:
BRUTUS CAPTURES ATHENA IN NEGATIVE TILT POSITION


:>)
[citation needed]

I can find no record of such a statement in a cursory google search.
besides, he's a hurricane specialist, not a climatologist, so I don't know if that's a very effective 'appeal to authority.'

Quoting jabjb2:
You don't even know who wrote this do you? Stacy Stewart from NHC did and I trust what he says any day over anything anyone on this site does.
Quoting AztecCe:
My opinion on this whole naming winter storms thing is that they should do it. I mean it might help people take notice about it. I think if people hear "Winter Storm Athena's gonna hit us!" then they will likely prepare more than hearing "Hey we're getting snow in a few days."

I like the idea of naming winter storms and I think it would increase awareness. However, I wish there was the NWS or HPC or something like that doing the naming process as that seems more official to me.
Quoting wxchaser97:

Stupid spell check/auto correct made the n capital...
Also, what else was I supposed to say?


"The People at the Top of the World"?... Sounds good!
Quoting LargoFl:
bringing that Cold air right down here.............

It's too cold here Largo. :(
Im FREEEEEZING
Quoting Dragod66:


"The People at the Top of the World"?... Sounds good!

Nice try, you aren't on top of the world...
Quoting Dragod66:


"northerners"... LOL
There are Southerners here
Yea i know its only going to 40 but I'm a Floridian.... this is way too cold for me!
Here is Dr. M's blog title:

Winter Storm Athena batters the Northeast; Brutus takes aim at Montana

What does it say that this doesn't?

Winter Storm batters the Northeast; Another takes aim at Montana

Lot of value added there by TWC, right? No, it is not awful per se. What irritates me is that another network (TWC qualifies what with its web presence) is just MAKING STUFF UP to attract viewers.
Quoting wxchaser97:

Nice try, you aren't on top of the world...


I like to think I am
Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:
I didn't even know wikipedia had this up on the Hurricane season site



click for bigger pic

There is more info on "Athena" and a section on Sandy, I just checked.
Quoting Dragod66:


I like to think I am

Don't we all? Going to the north and/or south pole would be interesting.
Quoting beell:
This just in:
BRUTUS CAPTURES ATHENA IN NEGATIVE TILT POSITION



Sounds like a "Jerry Springer" episode in the makings!
Quoting wxchaser97:

Don't we all? Going to the north and/or south pole would be interesting.


I agree... I would be cold! But really pretty!
Quoting Dragod66:


I agree... I would be cold! But really pretty!

All that cold and snow and ice or at least what is left.
Quoting AztecCe:
There are Southerners here

I'm very south.
Quoting AussieStorm:

I'm very south.

Indeed.
Quoting AussieStorm:

I'm very south.


bottom of the world!
Quoting Dragod66:


bottom of the world!

not quiet, but close to it.lol
Weakening Athena and strengthening Brutus, I am only using the names as it is easier than that winter storm over there.
Interesting twist on the use of electric cars: power your home.

"Originally shown as a concept at the Tokyo Motor Show last year, the “Leaf to Home” system was a response by the automaker following the devastating earthquake and tsunami that hit Japan in March of 2011 and left millions without power."
TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
700 PM EST THU NOV 8 2012

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

A LARGE AREA OF CLOUDINESS AND THUNDERSTORMS EXTENDING UP TO 900
MILES WEST-NORTHWEST OF THE CAPE VERDE ISLANDS IS ASSOCIATED WITH A
WEAK SURFACE TROUGH INTERACTING WITH A LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM IN THE
MIDDLE AND UPPER LEVELS OF THE ATMOSPHERE. DEVELOPMENT...IF ANY...
SHOULD BE SLOW TO OCCUR...AND THIS SYSTEM HAS A LOW CHANCE...10
PERCENT...OF BECOMING A TROPICAL CYCLONE DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

ELSEWHERE...TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE
NEXT 48 HOURS.

$$
FORECASTER BERG
I am waiting for the locusts and pestilence next, said New Jersey Governor Chris Christie at a press conference on Wednesday, after Winter Storm Athena punished New Jersey with heavy snows, high winds, and a 3-foot storm surge.

If he wishes for locusts it will have to get warmer. That might not be a bad thing right now.
He is my teacher for tropical meteorology at Penn State. It's an online class and he is the instructor.He sent it to our class when someone asked about global warming and the monsoon seasons.
Quoting evilpenguinshan:
[citation needed]

I can find no record of such a statement in a cursory google search.
besides, he's a hurricane specialist, not a climatologist, so I don't know if that's a very effective 'appeal to authority.'

Quoting CosmicEvents:
You wore out your lips backing up the private owners of the site, but no thanks. I'll stick with the NWS and their science rather than the nebulous definitions TWC gives for naming a storm.
.
It matters not what bloggers say as well. This little experiment will live or die depending on what(if any) other media outlets use it. We'll see how that goes over the winter. I expect the name idea by TWC will be scrapped sooner than later.
Well, I won't bother responding to your grade-school insults; that type of silliness doesn't belong here, so I concede the playground to you where that is concerned. But the fact remains that, like them or hate them, TWC is by far the single non-governmental weather provider with the greatest saturation in this nation. It's the most recognized weather brand; it's the site and the TV network to which people turn in droves during times of meteorological chaos and uncertainty. Its website is ranked #24 in the nation; by comparison, the NWS site (weather.gov) is #181. So as the clear de facto weather leader, TWC has not just the right but the obligation to blaze a path and set trends that others with far fewer resources may fear to. Of course, as has been repeatedly stated, no one is being forced to follow TWC's lead--but I imagine that it'll only be a matter of time before everyone chooses to.

Now, how about we switch the subject to something with vastly great import, such as climate change?

Every time Dr Masters refers to a named winter event, a kitten somewhere will feel a little pain. As does Dr Masters himself, I sincerely believe...
Quoting Neapolitan:
Well, I won't bother responding to your grade-school insults; that type of silliness doesn't belong here, so I concede the playground to you where that is concerned. But the fact remains that, like them or hate them, TWC is by far the single non-governmental weather provider with the greatest saturation in this nation. It's the most recognized weather brand; it's the site and the TV network to which people turn in droves during times of meteorological chaos and uncertainty. Its website is ranked #24 in the nation; by comparison, the NWS site (weather.gov) is #181. So as the clear de facto weather leader, TWC has not just the right but the obligation to blaze a path and set trends that others with far fewer resources may fear to. Of course, as has been repeatedly stated, no one is being forced to follow TWC's lead--but I imagine that it'll only be a matter of time before everyone chooses to.

Now, how about we switch the subject to something with vastly great import, such as climate change?




Where does Fox News rank? I'd imagine the number outta be pretty high up there too...



Quoting UKHWatcher:
Every time Dr Masters refers to a named winter event, a kitten somewhere will feel a little pain. As does Dr Masters himself, I sincerely believe...

Its not that bad...... yeah its weird but so what TWC uses names... its not like the end of the world bcause they named Athena and Brutus
Quoting Doppler22:

Its not that bad...... yeah its weird but so what TWC uses names... its not like the end of the world bcause they named Athena and Brutus


When Gandalf casts a spell, the "Lord Of The Rings" franchise could take a hit!!

Weather OK here for now, Moderate rain tomorrow til 2pm Then a mainly dry but cloudy 9C weekend,
See below.
Quoting TomballTXPride:



Where does Fox News rank? I'd imagine the number outta be pretty high up there too...





Fox News??? After Tuesday night???

Right under Bangladesh's third tier news station.
Quoting TomballTXPride:



Where does Fox News rank? I'd imagine the number outta be pretty high up there too...





Don't some people call it Faux News?


This is something we don't see down here. Tornado warnings.


SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING
for DESTRUCTIVE WIND, HEAVY RAINFALL, LARGE HAILSTONES and TORNADOES
For people in the
Upper Derwent Valley and parts of the
South East and
Midlands Forecast Districts.
Issued at 11:00 am Friday, 9 November 2012.
THIS INCLUDES A TORNADO WARNING.
Severe thunderstorms are likely to produce destructive winds, heavy rainfall that may lead to flash flooding, large hailstones and tornadoes in the warning area over the next several hours. Locations which may be affected include New Norfolk, Oatlands and Richmond.
The State Emergency Service advises that people should:
* Move your car under cover.
* Avoid driving, walking or riding through flood waters.
* Seek shelter, preferably indoors and never under trees.
* Avoid using the telephone during a thunderstorm.
* Beware of fallen trees and powerlines.
* For emergency assistance contact the SES on 132500.
The next warning is due to be issued by 2:00 pm.

Just went for a walk, spied this "little" guy.


He seems to be enjoying the spring sunshine.
Quoting bappit:
Here is Dr. M's blog title:

Winter Storm Athena batters the Northeast; Brutus takes aim at Montana

What does it say that this doesn't?

Winter Storm batters the Northeast; Another takes aim at Montana

Lot of value added there by TWC, right? No, it is not awful per se. What irritates me is that another network (TWC qualifies what with its web presence) is just MAKING STUFF UP to attract viewers.


How about:

I got 6" last night from a winter storm.

or

Brutus gave me 6" last night.

Quoting bappit:
Here is Dr. M's blog title:

Winter Storm Athena batters the Northeast; Brutus takes aim at Montana

What does it say that this doesn't?

Winter Storm batters the Northeast; Another takes aim at Montana

Lot of value added there by TWC, right? No, it is not awful per se. What irritates me is that another network (TWC qualifies what with its web presence) is just MAKING STUFF UP to attract viewers.


I agree completely.
It's presumptuous and of little value for TWC to do this.

Made me laugh at them. again.

Two winter storms and a another possible hybrid.This month is going to be crazy.Started warning people of the potential hybrid in case it happens.
Quoting mo999999999:
Two winter storms and a another possible hybrid.This month is going to be crazy.Started warning people of the potential hybrid in case it happens.

oh don't do that just yet, they might start calling you TWC.
Quoting Dakster:


How about:

I got 6" last night from a winter storm.

or

Brutus gave me 6" last night.



Only 6"?? A lot of people will get 12 from Boris opps I mean Brutus.
Quoting Dakster:


How about:

I got 6" last night from a winter storm.

or

Brutus gave me 6" last night.



Dakster...
Quoting AussieStorm:

oh don't do that just yet, they might start calling you TWC.

Only 6"?? A lot of people will get 12 from Bustus opps I mean Brutus.


I said just in case.
Quoting TomballTXPride:



Where does Fox News rank? I'd imagine the number outta be pretty high up there too...
Well, I referred specifically to stormy times: "[TWC is] the site and the TV network to which people turn in droves during times of meteorological chaos and uncertainty...". There are a lot of Fox viewers, to be sure--but even their most ardent fans know that if they want truthful, honest, and accurate weather information, TWC is the place to go. Fox simply isn't.
246. beell
BRUTUS TO GIVE 10" TO HELENA IN MONTANA...POSSIBLY MORE
Quoting bappit:
Here is Dr. M's blog title:

Winter Storm Athena batters the Northeast; Brutus takes aim at Montana

What does it say that this doesn't?

Winter Storm batters the Northeast; Another takes aim at Montana

Lot of value added there by TWC, right? No, it is not awful per se. What irritates me is that another network (TWC qualifies what with its web presence) is just MAKING STUFF UP to attract viewers.


This naming of winter storms is vulgar, juvenile, and just plain stupid. I suppose in the offing they will have that leggy weather babe in a bikini and spike heels, and the guys decked out in leather, and ready for action like world federation wrestling.

If winter storms MUST be named, far far less egregious of a crime if they are named after, say, the greek alphabet (2012-Alpha, 2012-Beta, so far), Mayan numbers, or something else totally inert.

Dreadful. Horrible. Someone mentioned Jerry Springer, above. Jerry Springer watchers would probably approve. Anyone with even an inch of forehead above their eyebrows is instinctively offended by the idea. Too ugh!~
Personally, I find the storm over Nametastrophe 2012 to be quite intense, I think I'd best name it.

No, seriously, I just don't think it's a big deal either way. If people out there who are _not_ weather dorks start using the names generally, fine, ok, well, they'll just go with it and they'll all know what they mean. If they don't, the names will probably go away.

I suspect the end result will be the latter, but I don't really care. I don't think it is unsound -- it's trying to get people to focus on major and threatening storms that are _not_ hurricanes, and that's overall a good motive, I guess -- and I simultaneously don't think it's likely to be terribly useful, most of the time, given that about 99.999% of folks don't really pay attention to most weather-related stuff apart from "is it going to rain on my parade?"

But carry on. As they say in academia, sometimes the disagreements are so vicious because the stakes are so small.
Quoting TropicTraveler:


I agree with Jo. Can't see what all the fuss is about. It's not like somebody has stolen their dogs or anything. If somebody doesn't want to call it Brutus, call it that storm out in Montana.
What is relevant is the danger, sorrow, and hazardous weather that Brutus or "that storm in Montana" represent. That's what gets my attentiona nd concern. And we do track our loved ones and friends who live in those regions. So everybody try to stay warm and safe.
Well, then, do you name spring severe outbreaks, then? And save special names for the really bad ones, such as the Super Outbreak a couple years back "And now, video from Tuscaloosa from the aftermath of Spring Storm Godzilla..."
Quoting Dakster:


How about:

I got 6" last night from a winter storm.

or

Brutus gave me 6" last night.

That's right up there with the time Vivian Brown had to try and keep a straight face while talking about Typhoon Longwang.
IT 54 in WPB FL now!!
Quoting SFLWeatherman:
IT 54 in WPB FL now!!


Come on 40's.... Awesome weather! Hopefully it will spill down south a little further.
255. j2008
East Atlantic Wave is looking really good right now, thinking 30-40% isnt out of the question at next update.
FWIW...

#athena has received 1,496 tweets or re-tweets over the past 48 hours on twitter, and #brutus has received 1,227 tweets or re-tweets today alone.

I wouldn't worry about it becoming publicly adopted; it has already reached that status.
Its website is ranked #24 in the nation; by comparison

I just did a google search of "Athena Storm" to see what news agencies are using the term and the search came up below in that order:

International Business Times
Tulsa World Blog
rt.com-(Russia news blog)
Huffington post(owned by NBC that owns TWC)
WU-(owned by NBC that owns TWC)
Wikipedia-(TA?)
Youtube video named (Athena Storm)

yeah, TWC naming of winter storms is absolutely dominating the international web today.



Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
FWIW...

#athena has received 1,496 tweets or re-tweets over the past 48 hours on twitter, and #brutus has received 1,227 tweets or re-tweets today alone.

I wouldn't worry about it becoming publicly adopted; it has already reached that status.


You do realize that there are several hundred million tweets every day, right? 1,227 is like, .000015% of total tweets. (assuming 100 million tweets per day, a low end estimate) That's very widely accepted... Said no one ever
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
FWIW...

#athena has received 1,496 tweets or re-tweets over the past 48 hours on twitter, and #brutus has received 1,227 tweets or re-tweets today alone.

I wouldn't worry about it becoming publicly adopted; it has already reached that status.


Could happen. If so, fine, eh, maybe people will pay attention to them. If not, well, the storm is the same either way, and I hope people pay attention to it.

I guess I _do_ think they're likely to have problems with the unnamed storm that smacks people more than they saw coming, or the named storm that winds up being a cute little kitten of a shower, but they'll figure that out, or they won't. I just don't think it's a big deal, ultimately. We'll see.
Oh pur-leeaazze, let's not start naming every kind of storm! What the hell is going to happen during the next Tornado season - one big breakout, and you'll be using the alphabet 4 times over in one day! Heck, you'd need to start using Unicode names just to keep going.

Not to mention Heat Wave Henry, Glorious Sunny Morning Glenda, and Christ knows what else.

Let's get back to discussing Weather - or has DISNEY just bought The Weather Channel?

Brian
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
FWIW...

#athena has received 1,496 tweets or re-tweets over the past 48 hours on twitter, and #brutus has received 1,227 tweets or re-tweets today alone.

I wouldn't worry about it becoming publicly adopted; it has already reached that status.

That's absolutely nothing. In general the public disapproves of the idea, as does most of the scientific community.
Quoting VaStormGuy:


You do realize that there are several hundred million tweets every day, right? 1,227 is like, .000015% of total tweets. (assuming 100 million tweets per day, a low end estimate) That's very widely accepted... Said no one ever

At its peak, #sandy received 1,495 tweets or re-tweets. Just because it's not one of the most tweeted hashtags on twitter doesn't mean it's not publicly used.
***** LIVE NOW*****

The Barometer Bob Show for November 8, 2012.

Guest will be Rick Schwartz, author of Hurricanes and the Middle Atlantic States.
We will discuss what storms that have affected the Middle Atlantic had any similarity to "Sandy". Listen Live and Please share your views.

Is there a potential for Severe Weather this week, the Tropics, and more.

Join us in Storm Chat during the show and feel free to call in via the toll free number (1-866-931-8437) or Skype (barometerbob or 904-257-0234).

You can watch the show live beginning at HurricaneHollow.com. Once again Join us in Storm Chat and feel free to call into the show.
The show starts at 8PM EST/7PM CST
Quoting TropicTraveler:


I agree with Jo. Can't see what all the fuss is about. It's not like somebody has stolen their dogs or anything. If somebody doesn't want to call it Brutus, call it that storm out in Montana.
What is relevant is the danger, sorrow, and hazardous weather that Brutus or "that storm in Montana" represent. That's what gets my attentiona nd concern. And we do track our loved ones and friends who live in those regions. So everybody try to stay warm and safe.

I think the reason some people (including me) are angry about it, is that we feel that stations such as the Weather Channel are trying to cause a national phenomenon of storm hype. They are like "Ok we just had this sort of hybrid hurricane hit New Jersey and it was a Katrina like storm (that is the way they portrayed it) we gained enourmous rating because of 'Sandy'". Let's now try to count and name every other "sigificant storm" to make it seem like the US is in a storm after storm crisis!" Wow! It's just like 2004 with all the hurricanes!!..."

It sounds more ominous to say "Winter storm Athena strikes the Mid-Atlantic" than to say "low-grade/moderate noreaster to affect the Mid-Atlantic."

That's just how I feel. I'm not trying to impose my views on anyone.
Quoting MAweatherboy1:

That's absolutely nothing. In general the public disapproves of the idea, as does most of the scientific community.

Not really. The Weather Channel produced a poll on its facebook page when they first announced the decision to name winter storms and many more people voted that they agreed with TWCs decision to name them than otherwise.

It may not be widely accepted in the scientific community, but they are going to have to get over it.
Quoting biowizard:
Oh pur-leeaazze, let's not start naming every kind of storm! What the hell is going to happen during the next Tornado season - one big breakout, and you'll be using the alphabet 4 times over in one day! Heck, you'd need to start using Unicode names just to keep going.

Not to mention Heat Wave Henry, Glorious Sunny Morning Glenda, and Christ knows what else.

Let's get back to discussing Weather - or has DISNEY just bought The Weather Channel?

Brian

yes
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

At its peak, #sandy received 1,495 tweets or re-tweets. Just because it's not one of the most tweeted hashtags on twitter doesn't mean it's not publicly used.


So you're saying it's not one of the most tweeted hashtags... or in other words widely used? In either case, I think it's not right that TWC can do that, when all other namings of systems officially comes from official agencies. Until the NWS makes or adopts a naming system, I am not in favor of TWC's unilateral and attention-seeking gimmick.
I bet if people here hurry and post another 2,000 comments complaining about TWC's naming of certain winter storms, they'll grow weary of all the attention their channel is receiving and immediately cease the practice so people will go back to talking about other things. :\
Quoting opal92nwf:

I think the reason some people (including me) are angry about it, is that we feel that stations such as the Weather Channel are trying to cause a national phenomenon of storm hype. They are like "Ok we just had this sort of hybrid hurricane hit New Jersey and it was a Katrina like storm (that is the way they portrayed it) we gained enourmous rating because of 'Sandy'". Let's now try to count and name every other "sigificant storm" to make it seem like the US is in a storm after storm crisis!" Wow! It's just like 2004 with all the hurricanes!!..."

It sounds more ominous to say "Winter storm Athena strikes the Mid-Atlantic" than to say "low-grade/moderate noreaster to affect the Mid-Atlantic."

That's just how I feel. I'm not trying to impose my views on anyone.


I hear you, and that's probably the most reasonable argument I've heard, honestly. I do wish the media, TWC included, would get better at the info, and knock it off with the hype.

Simultaneously, there are lots of storms -- and maybe increasingly more, depending on your point of view -- that are dangerous for various reasons beyond the typical storm, and getting people to get that is not always easy. Just as we had arguments here after Sandy over whether it was appropriate or inappropriate to put up hurricane watches or warnings, say -- a lot of folks don't pay much attention as it is, so when something nasty is coming at them, hurricane or not, they do kinda need to start getting that it's a nasty thing, and it's coming at them.

I'm not sure what the best approach to that is, honestly. I view this as sort of mixed. I do hear you on the hype, and I think it's a little fraught with peril for them, because calling the seriousness is not always easy in time to name stuff. But I also think that there's probably good reason to rethink how we approach this info going forward, given that people have a hard time now figuring out which parts to take more seriously than which other parts, I guess.
Quoting AussieStorm:
***** LIVE NOW*****

The Barometer Bob Show for November 8, 2012.

Guest will be Rick Schwartz, author of Hurricanes and the Middle Atlantic States.
We will discuss what storms that have affected the Middle Atlantic had any similarity to "Sandy". Listen Live and Please share your views.

Is there a potential for Severe Weather this week, the Tropics, and more.

Join us in Storm Chat during the show and feel free to call in via the toll free number (1-866-931-8437) or Skype (barometerbob or 904-257-0234).

You can watch the show live beginning at HurricaneHollow.com. Once again Join us in Storm Chat and feel free to call into the show.
The show starts at 8PM EST/7PM CST


Rick Schwartz on the phone right now.
Quoting Neapolitan:
I bet if people here hurry and post another 2,000 comments complaining about TWC's naming of certain winter storms, they'll grow weary of all the attention their channel is receiving and immediately cease the practice so people will go back to talking about other things. :\
Here is an idea, if you don't like it LEAVE
272. beell
Montana rushes to complete preparations for first-ever named winter storm.

Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Not really. The Weather Channel produced a poll on its facebook page when they first announced the decision to name winter storms and many more people voted that they agreed with TWCs decision to name them than otherwise.

It may not be widely accepted in the scientific community, but they are going to have to get over it.


Not a fair poll. If people like TWC on Facebook, they are more likely to approve of what it does. Reaction in the community outside of the TWC sphere of influence has been fairly negative.





Before and after Sandy

Superstorm Sandy wreaked havoc on the East Coast last week. Camera crews and smartphone-toting locals chronicled the storm's devastation on the street. These aerial photos, taken 7,500 feet above the ground, demonstrate the destruction on a larger scale. Just north of the spot where Sandy came ashore, the Mantoloking Bridge used to connect this barrier island to mainland New Jersey. The bridge was only two years old when the first picture was taken, in March 2007, but since the storm has washed away much of this former island, it has become, quite literally, a bridge to nowhere.

Images courtesy of the NOAA Remote Sensing Division, NASA.



http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2012/11 /08/new-jersey-coast-before-and-after-sandy/
Quoting nymore:
Here is an idea, if you don't like it LEAVE
That's one idea. Here's another one: I'll stick around and watch many of you continue complaining about TWC naming certain winter storms. Because I'm sure TWC doesn't want people talking about them, so they'll probably stop the practice any minute now...
Quoting Neapolitan:
I bet if people here hurry and post another 2,000 comments complaining about TWC's naming of certain winter storms, they'll grow weary of all the attention their channel is receiving and immediately cease the practice so people will go back to talking about other things. :\

I wonder if people actually think that complaining in the Weather Underground comments section will do anything to persuade The Weather Channel to change their decision to name winter storms...

Oh wait...it would take common sense to think otherwise.
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

I wonder if people actually think that complaining in the Weather Underground comments section will do anything to persuade The Weather Channel to change their decision to name winter storms...


You're right, I should go out and complain elsewhere.


Who's with me?
Quoting Neapolitan:
That's one idea. Here's another one: I'll stick around and watch many of you continue complaining about TWC naming certain winter storms. Because I'm sure TWC doesn't want people talking about them, so they'll probably stop the practice any minute now...



or how about this drop it and move on it is what it is no need too keep bashing TWC on this
Quoting nymore:
Here is an idea, if you don't like it LEAVE



Dare to dream.



jk Nea.
Who would I have to argue with then?
Quoting VaStormGuy:


Not a fair poll. If people like TWC on Facebook, they are more likely to approve of what it does. Reaction in the community outside of the TWC sphere of influence has been fairly negative.


Agreed that it's stupid not-polling, it's about appealing to the already-there fan base. But I think scientists -- and I'm speaking from being one, or at least having been one, I suppose -- can also sometimes fret over the domain of science in ways that... well, you know, I've got bigger fish to fry, I guess.

I mean, there are concepts at play, and there's big picture stuff, and then there's this, which is basically about public communication, something already basically controlled by media. I'm just not sure I see the point to getting too worked up about it.

There are interesting philosophical questions here, of course... there's sort of a "what do scientists do with the commercialization of that communication" stuff, since providing a "product" for "a fan base" is certainly _not_ necessarily the same aim as giving accurate scientific information. But I think that question is a way, way bigger one than is even symbolically encapsulated in this particular thing, if that makes sense. Science has always been reported poorly, but now -- you know, whatever science "news" is the most popular is what gets through to most people, combined increasingly with whatever supports what they already thought anyway.

In the grand scheme of that, this is small beans to me, I'm afraid.

But maybe I'm just too cynical.
I no how about TWC start naming EF4 and EF 5 torndos
Possible Tornado in Hobart Tasmania.

283. beell
Latest reports indicate that all the cowboys in Montana have evacuated in advance of Winter Storm Brutus.

Sad...

Beell, keep 'em coming..LOL!!!!!!
Quoting Neapolitan:
Well, I referred specifically to stormy times: "[TWC is] the site and the TV network to which people turn in droves during times of meteorological chaos and uncertainty...". There are a lot of Fox viewers, to be sure--but even their most ardent fans know that if they want truthful, honest, and accurate weather information, TWC is the place to go. Fox simply isn't.

Well, TWC is taking a step down the slippery slope of MAKING STUFF UP. As Fox has come to be known as BMN, is TWC headed towards BWC?
Reading this blog, you would think y'all were being hurt by TWC naming winter storms.
Quoting ncstorm:
Beell, keep 'em coming..LOL!!!!!!

BWC needs to get on this story!
Quoting beell:
Latest reports indicate that all the cowboys in Montana have evacuated in advance of Winter Storm Brutus.

Sad...



Well, it's a good thing, because there's nothing more unpleasant than a chilly hoof or four.

Also, that's adorable. I love that she barely comes up to that horse's chest. And somebody clearly drilled her well on how to hold that lead.

She could clearly kick Brutus' behind.
Dr. Rick Knabb ‏@NHCDirector
MT @VDEM: Sesame Street will air a special on hurricane preparedness and recovery tomorrow. Local air times on http://pbs.org . #Sandy
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:
Reading this blog, you would think y'all were being hurt by TWC naming winter storms.


Heh. You just clearly don't get it. The psychological toll is _devastating_. I mean, _cookies will have to be eaten_.

You know what's really funny? You know how many people I know, even peripherally, who ever watch the weather channel, really, or pay attention on any level outside of "somebody said it might rain tomorrow"?

Um. Me.

I mean, anecdote isn't data and all, but...

so...What are we arguing about tonight?
Quoting presslord:
so...What are we arguing about tonight?

How much Fresca is to much Fresca. lol
Quoting presslord:
so...What are we arguing about tonight?


People from Montana who talk to empty chairs....
Quoting presslord:
so...What are we arguing about tonight?


Bushmill's vs. Jameson: go!
Quoting LurkyMcLurkerson:


Bushmill's vs. Jameson: go!


(Oh, shoot, that was just me arguing about that with myself and the dogs. Nevermind. How embarrassing!)
Quoting Dakster:


How about:

I got 6" last night from a winter storm.

or

Brutus gave me 6" last night.

That's the spirit! Have fun with it.
Quoting LurkyMcLurkerson:


Bushmill's vs. Jameson: go!


Bushmill's...not even a contest
Quoting presslord:
so...What are we arguing about tonight?


Miller Lite: Great Taste or Less Filling
Southern Alaska is being impacted with some rough weather this evening:

Quoting presslord:
so...What are we arguing about tonight?
Ginger or Maryann.
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Not really. The Weather Channel produced a poll on its facebook page when they first announced the decision to name winter storms and many more people voted that they agreed with TWCs decision to name them than otherwise.

It may not be widely accepted in the scientific community, but they are going to have to get over it.


Tss! How unscientific can a poll be? It has been repeatedly established that the idea is vulgar, ugly, boring, ignorant, stupid, sophmoric, .... ugh! The very process demeans the meaning of named tropical storms. These weather systems are not discrete entities as are tropical systems. Are they going to name them for Alaska? The Northern Territories? Antarctica? Mars? Not going to name them if there is no snow, just lots of wind and rain? Or are they going to name every cloud....? Maybe they should name every event beyond a 3Z standard deviation. Ooo. It went to ten degrees today. Let's call it Lady Gaga. No no. Let's call it Richard Nixon.

It's all too stupid. The Weather Channel is known as TV valium, and this is proved by the fact that it is less inconsumable if you are listening to it in a foreign language that you don't understand. If they would transmit it in Russian, or ancient aramic, I guess it would be okay with the names thing. Maybe they should just have the weathercasters there do it in the nude, run it on a porn channel and call it good.

It's the zenith of 'Gah!~'

Civilizations end, in part, with the elevation of the trivial to a pseudo realm of importance, thereby degrading what actually IS important. Anyone behind this idea should be sprayed with a good bug spray. Twice!

Quoting presslord:


Bushmill's...not even a contest


That's what I said. My coonhound mix looked at me funny, though. I guess maybe she was offended that I didn't include any Jack?
Quoting Tazmanian:


I'll drink to that...
Quoting avthunder:
Ginger or Maryann.


sleep with Ginger...marry Mary Ann...
Quoting MontanaZephyr:


Tss! How unscientific can a poll be? It has been repeatedly established that the idea is vulgar, ugly, boring, ignorant, stupid, sophmoric, .... ugh! The very process demeans the meaning of named tropical storms. These weather systems are not discrete entities as are tropical systems. Are they going to name them for Alaska? The Northern Territories? Antarctica? Mars? Not going to name them if there is no snow, just lots of wind and rain? Or are they going to name every cloud....? Maybe they should name every event beyond a 3Z standard deviation. Ooo. It went to ten degrees today. Let's call it Lady Gaga. No no. Let's call it Richard Nixon.

It's all too stupid. The Weather Channel is known as TV valium, and this is proved by the fact that it is less inconsumable if you are listening to it in a foreign language that you don't understand. If they would transmit it in Russian, or ancient aramic, I guess it would be okay with the names thing. Maybe they should just have the weathercasters there do it in the nude, run it on a porn channel and call it good.

It's the zenith of 'Gah!~'

Civilizations end, in part, with the elevation of the trivial to a pseudo realm of importance, thereby degrading what actually IS important. Anyone behind this idea should be sprayed with a good bug spray. Twice!



Hee! Jameson for you, then?
Quoting ncstorm:
Its website is ranked #24 in the nation; by comparison

I just did a google search of "Athena Storm" to see what news agencies are using the term and the search came up below in that order:

International Business Times
Tulsa World Blog
rt.com-(Russia news blog)
Huffington post(owned by NBC that owns TWC)
WU-(owned by NBC that owns TWC)
Wikipedia-(TA?)
Youtube video named (Athena Storm)

yeah, TWC naming of winter storms is absolutely dominating the international web today.



That's going to be the key. How many media outlets use the "names"? If it catches on(beyond those media outlets owned by NBC) it'll take hold whether bloggers or the scientific community likes it or not. If it doesn't catch on(beyond NBC) then it'll leave TWC in an awkward situation.
.
I did also see CNBC refer to Aretha and Brutus.
Another one owned by NBC.
Did I mention that GE is the kindest, gentlest, most wonderful corporation that I've ever known.
Quoting presslord:


I'll drink to that...


You already did, no?
Taz I'm going to have nightmares after seeing that LOL...but I'll drink to it anyways :)
Quoting ncstorm:


Miller Lite: Great Taste or Less Filling


Great filling? Less taste? I demand options!

OK, I'm clearly too silly tonight to be on the internets. G'night! Cheers!
I'm wondering if The Weather Channel will be retiring certain storm names, if they become catastrophic, and use the six year name cycle like the NWS uses for hurricanes. I'm also wondering if the National Weather Service will eventually adopt the naming system or one of their own naming systems for winter storms. I don't see why they should have a problem with it.

If the NWS adopts the naming, it should also eventually form a category system for these storms. They need to have a better way of alerting the public, of the severity of a storm, along with the names. However a naming system is a start and I hope they adopt it. As with everything in the government though, it will take time.

Winter Storm Athena caused the power to go out again in parts of Rhode Island, including my town, which had not lost power during Hurricane Sandy. She dumped about 1-2 inches on my town and 4-6 inches in the northern parts of the state. The winds were the most damaging part of the storm though. The heavy wet snow, that piled onto tree branches, combined with high winds which caused the limbs to fall onto power lines. Parts of my town and surrounding areas are still without power tonight. The storm surge will prove to be a more long lasting effect of the storm; as the erosion continues to become more and more severe in the coastal towns of Rhode Island. Hurricane Sandy victims also had to halt recovery efforts for two days, because of Athena. Winter Storm Athena was by no means the most devastating winter storm Rhode Island has been dealt; but it was harmful due to its arrival shortly after Hurricane Sandy.

Quoting Dakster:


How about:

I got 6" last night from a winter storm.

or

Brutus gave me 6" last night.



0_o

You're right! The weather channel is going to need a new soundtrack!

(OK, really going. Procrastination, you know. What the hell does one do with _more_ chicken, anyway?)
The Energy Opportunity in Wasted Heat
By Melissa C. Lott | November 8, 2012

For every one unit of energy that is converted into electricity in power plants today, two units of energy are thrown away. This wasted energy is primarily in the form of heat – or thermal energy – and, there is technology available today that can turn this waste into a usable energy stream.

Combined Heat and Power (CHP) is a technology that combines power generation and usable heat capture equipment to increase the overall efficiency of the power plant. These two energy streams can then be used locally (for example, in a manufacturing process) or transmitted via power lines and pipes to local communities. This approach allows more energy output from the same amount of fuel input, allowing society to get more from its limited fossil fuel resources.

Today, the majority of electricity generated in the United States comes from power plants fueled by fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and oil). These plants run with an efficiency in the ballpark of 33%. The remaining 67% is mostly released into the environment in the form of heat. In CHP facilities, the bulk of this heat is recovered and used, leading to real-world efficiencies of more than 75%. Some CHP facilities in the United States have documented overall efficiencies of more than 87%.
Nice storm coming my way soon.


Loop

Here it is from my front window.



If the weather channel names winter storms what stops local weather stations to do the same thing? I could name this storm now.. winter storm Montana. Its just pretty silly to name these winter storms when its not an offical name. If NWS starts to name it then the names would stick and make perfect sense but until then its pointless and kinda makes TWC look bad IMO.Now back to the second ever named winter storm Montana!.. errr i mean Brutus? I think...
Evening, folks.
I hope they retire the idea of naming winter storms altogether.
Hurricane Chemistry: Renovating Butter

By Michelle on Wednesday, November 07, 2012

Hurricane Sandy left us without power for several days and while a basement chest freezer remained solidly frozen, thermal equilbrium was unfortunately reached by our refrigerator and kitchen, at roughly 55oF.  Saturday morning found us rooting through the refrigerator, deciding what had to be chucked (milk) and what didn't (ketchup).  Butter?  In this cool weather, it could stay, it would be unlikely to have turned rancid.

But coincidently, while breezing through a depression era Chemcraft chemistry set instruction book, I encountered directions for "renovating" rancid butter.  Around the same time that margarine made its debut, so did process butter, butter that had been treated to remove the objectionable materials.  As near as I can tell, it's an extraction process, presumably the rancid materials (such as butyric acid) dissolve in the cream and the remaining materials can be reworked into a solid mass.

Laws remain on the books in many places forbidding the sale of process butter without making clear to the consumer what is being purchased.  In the early part of the 20th century this was widespread enough for the US Department of Agriculture to print a booklet which "enable[s] any housekeeper, with only the usual facilities of the kitchen, to distinguish in the great majority of cases between genuine butter, renovated butter, and oleomargarine."

Next time the power goes out, I'll know how to "renovate" my butter, as long as I don't intend to sell it!
Quoting Tazmanian:


Ref: post 301

I just snarfed a fine IPA through my nose and onto my iPad. Taz...you owe me a new iPad! :-P

Bravo...way to change the subject!
who gives a **** if they name storms? discuss the storms however you want but at least discuss the storms!
Quoting wxchaser97:

Stupid spell check/auto correct made the n capital...
Also, what else was I supposed to say?


Northerners is a proper noun and is capitalized, the same way "Constant Complainers" would be capitalized.
274 CaicosRetiredSailor: [quoting Discover magazine] ...Just north of the spot where Sandy came ashore, the Mantoloking Bridge used to connect this barrier island to mainland New Jersey. The bridge was only two years old when the first picture was taken, in March 2007, but since the storm has washed away much of this former island, it has become, quite literally, a bridge to nowhere.

Looking at the location, I find myself wondering how much that bridge caused Sandy's storm surge&waves to cut through and otherwise damage that barrier island.
Quoting thunderbug91:
Yea i know its only going to 40 but I'm a Floridian.... this is way too cold for me!
Hey.. I'm shivering and wearing my cap and jacket with the hoodie up here... and it's only 68 in Nassau.... LOL

Evening all...

Quoting opal92nwf:

I think the reason some people (including me) are angry about it, is that we feel that stations such as the Weather Channel are trying to cause a national phenomenon of storm hype. They are like "Ok we just had this sort of hybrid hurricane hit New Jersey and it was a Katrina like storm (that is the way they portrayed it) we gained enourmous rating because of 'Sandy'". Let's now try to count and name every other "sigificant storm" to make it seem like the US is in a storm after storm crisis!" Wow! It's just like 2004 with all the hurricanes!!..."

It sounds more ominous to say "Winter storm Athena strikes the Mid-Atlantic" than to say "low-grade/moderate noreaster to affect the Mid-Atlantic."

That's just how I feel. I'm not trying to impose my views on anyone.
Only one thing... they had decided long before to name the storms... for me the greater problem with naming winter storms is that they are such a part of the winter landscape. We don't name every Twave that comes along; they are just a part of the rainy season. It seems to me winter storm naming could become something like naming every Twave.

Otherwise it doesn't seem to matter that much either way...
Quoting Grothar:


Northerners is a proper noun and is capitalized, the same way "Constant Complainers" would be capitalized.

So I was right and I thought I was wrong, hmmmmm.
I might care what The Weather Channel does if I ever watched it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they start having named winter storms sponsored by companies like Prestone, Icee, Heet, etc.
Here are some interesting Wind names.

broholos A squall frequent from May through August between Cabo de Sao Tome and Cabo Frio on the coast of Brazil.

Auster Same as OSTRIA

Austru A east or southeast wind in Rumania. They are cold in winter and may be a local name for a foehn wind. (Glossary of Meteorology)

Bali wind A strong east wind at the eastern end of Java.

Barat A heavy northwest squall in Manado Bay on the north coast of the island of Celebes, prevalent from December to February.

Barber A strong wind carrying damp snow or sleet and spray that freezes upon contact with objects, especially the beard and hair.

Bayamo A violent wind blowing from the land on the south coast of Cuba, especially near the Bight of Bayamo.

Bentu de Soli An east wind on the coast of Sardinia.

Bora A cold, northerly wind blowing from the Hungarian basin into the Adriatic Sea. See also FALL WIND.

Borasco A thunderstorm or violent squall, especially in the Mediterranean.


Sirocco A warm wind of the Mediterranean area, either a foehn or a hot southerly wind in advance of a low pressure area moving from the Sahara or Arabian deserts. Called LEVECHE in Spain.


Link
Quoting wxchaser97:

So I was right and I thought I was wrong, hmmmmm.


Feel lucky. It is usually the opposite with most people.
Quoting Grothar:


Feel lucky. It is usually the opposite with most people.

I did the same thing on my latest math quiz. I should've had a 100% but I changed the right answer into a wrong answer.
Quoting Grothar:
Here are some interesting Wind names.

broholos A squall frequent from May through August between Cabo de Sao Tome and Cabo Frio on the coast of Brazil.

Auster Same as OSTRIA

Austru A east or southeast wind in Rumania. They are cold in winter and may be a local name for a foehn wind. (Glossary of Meteorology)

Bali wind A strong east wind at the eastern end of Java.

Barat A heavy northwest squall in Manado Bay on the north coast of the island of Celebes, prevalent from December to February.

Barber A strong wind carrying damp snow or sleet and spray that freezes upon contact with objects, especially the beard and hair.

Bayamo A violent wind blowing from the land on the south coast of Cuba, especially near the Bight of Bayamo.

Bentu de Soli An east wind on the coast of Sardinia.

Bora A cold, northerly wind blowing from the Hungarian basin into the Adriatic Sea. See also FALL WIND.

Borasco A thunderstorm or violent squall, especially in the Mediterranean.


Sirocco A warm wind of the Mediterranean area, either a foehn or a hot southerly wind in advance of a low pressure area moving from the Sahara or Arabian deserts. Called LEVECHE in Spain.


Link

What about the morning glory it's a wind/cloud formation that develops in the Gulf of Carpentaria.
I saw it first.


Quoting Grothar:
I saw it first.





you seen nothing 1st
Quoting Tazmanian:



you seen nothing 1st


Just gets you, doesn't it, Taz?
Quoting Grothar:
I saw it first.



You saw it yesterday.
Quoting Grothar:
I saw it first.



Can I claim I saw this first?
Grothar... Does that mean u are issueing a BLOB Alert??!!
Pretty warm so far this Fall here in South Central Texas, today it was 85 and we have had several days of around 90, normal is low 70s for highs and mid to upper 40s for lows. Been pretty dry here the past 6 weeks and now they are saying La Nina is coming back, with Lake Travis down over 50 feet this is horrible news, means drought conditions will return in 2013.

Wish we had better news but, after a rise to nearly a full degree above normal in August, the waters started to cool again slightly into September and October...and now the forecast shows less impact likely from this El Nino episode. We had hoped for a full-fledged El Nino episode to develop as El Nino historically means wetter weather for Texas. A consortium of computer models points towards neutral or "La Nada" conditions during early 2013 and there might even be a return of La Nina -- the drought maker -- at some point next year. We'll keep you posted.

Quoting wxchaser97:

Can I claim I saw this first?


Sure, why not. You can even name it if you want. :)
Quoting Grothar:


Sure, why not. You can even name it if you want. :)

Oh if that is the case then Isaac is going to be used twice this year...
Quoting wxchaser97:

I did the same thing on my latest math quiz. I should've had a 100% but I changed the right answer into a wrong answer.


1+1=2? No, that can't be right. 1+1=11? Yea, let's go with that.

later....what! It was 2! Darn...
Quoting Doppler22:
Grothar... Does that mean u are issueing a BLOB Alert??!!


Post 334 deserves a blob Alert, I think. I promise I won't be naming them though.
Quoting Grothar:


Just gets you, doesn't it, Taz?



I cant help it lol
Quoting Greyelf:
I might care what The Weather Channel does if I ever watched it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they start having named winter storms sponsored by companies like Prestone, Icee, Heet, etc.


In a way you *are* watching it now. TWC bought this web site a few months ago.
I think we should name spells of good weather. That would help us appreciate them more.
Quoting Tazmanian:



I cant help it lol


Neither can I. Remember the blogger on here back in 2009 who always wrote that? It used to drive us wild.
Quoting Grothar:


Neither can I. Remember the blogger on here back in 2009 who always wrote that? It used to drive us wild.




wish bloger was that?
Similar events like last year Winter.... dead birds, fish falling from the sky.... Looks like the N hemisphere season affects them.... Poisoning or radiation from cellular towers?

Hundreds of pigeons mysteriously die in India
Posted on November 8, 2012
November 8, 2012 – PATNA, India - More than five hundred pigeons have dropped dead at a village in Bihar’s Bhagalpur district over the last four days, causing residents, some of them pigeon-keepers, to fear that something was amiss. District officials are still to visit the site and conduct an inquiry. “We were shocked, and we cannot understand why it happened,” Subodh Kumar Singh, a keeper of pigeons who lost 250 birds in two days, said. Another pigeon keeper, Mohan Singh, said, “We need some manner of inquiry into this. Why did such a large number of pigeons drop dead in a matter of days?” Other pigeon keepers like Subhit Singh, Radhe Singh and Bhumeshwar Singh said that the government ought to investigate the deaths. While some veterinarians suspected a bird flu or poisoning, others speculated that the deaths could have been caused because of radiation from mobile phone towers. They added that that only an investigation could get to the root of the mystery. Pigeons are valued as pets here, and there is a thriving market for them.–Times of India
Quoting Doppler22:
Grothar... Does that mean u are issueing a BLOB Alert??!!

Don't force him into taking a position. He likes to remain neutral.
Quoting Grothar:


Just gets you, doesn't it, Taz?
Every time Taz posts that it makes me laugh.

But then I tried to watch TWC a little while ago and cracked up when one of the desk crew said, "We saw how that short wave grabbed Sandy and soon Brutus' mid-level circulation will be poised to join Athena's energy..."

Guess they'll fly across the sky and live happily ever after as Bruthena. Athus? Personally, I think Athena would be happier if she waits for a long wave.
Quoting Barefootontherocks:
Every time Taz posts that it makes me laugh.

But then I tried to watch TWC a little while ago and cracked up when one of the desk crew said, "We saw how that short wave grabbed Sandy and soon Brutus' mid-level circulation will be poised to join Athena's energy..."

Guess they'll fly across the sky and live happily ever after as Bruthena. Athus? Personally, I think Athena would be happier if she waits for a long wave.

I think I saw that in a martial arts movie once.
Well now, seems our little would be Valerie has interrupted my vacation. Now it had better develop.
Hobart Tasmania Tornado.....

Share photos on twitter with Twitpic
Hmmm. I guess that might apply to some atmospheric interactions.
Quoting bappit:

I think I saw that in a martial arts movie once.
Quoting bappit:

Don't force him into taking a position. He likes to remain neutral.


Neutral is nice.
What mystery? Farmers so overuse pesticides that it's amazing that there're any farmers left in India, let alone wildlife.
Quoting Tazmanian:




wish bloger was that?


I don't remember his handle, but he always wrote it anytime something popped up. I just keep the tradition alive. It is a private joke with some of us.
Quoting Barefootontherocks:
Every time Taz posts that it makes me laugh.

But then I tried to watch TWC a little while ago and cracked up when one of the desk crew said, "We saw how that short wave grabbed Sandy and soon Brutus' mid-level circulation will be poised to join Athena's energy..."

Guess they'll fly across the sky and live happily ever after as Bruthena. Athus? Personally, I think Athena would be happier if she waits for a long wave.


Taz and I go back a long way. These names get confusing. I can't remember my kid's name now. I just say "Hey, you"
Quoting presslord:


Bushmill's...not even a contest


Its not in the race but I did enjoy Johnny Walker Double Black...while it lasted...

Looks like Fillius de Athena will be a sub-960 just off the Labrador coast in a couple of days. No way they have cable.
The shelf life of salted butter at a comfortable room temperature is the same as that of eggs, measured in months rather than days.
Quoting aspectre:
The shelf life of salted butter at a comfortable room temperature is the same as that of eggs, measured in months rather than days.


That explains "Green Eggs and Ham"
Quoting aspectre:
The shelf life of salted butter at a comfortable room temperature is the same as that of eggs, measured in months rather than days.


The only thing is, that people who eat butter that has been left out for 3 months, aren't around long enough for them to tell us what it is like.
Quoting Progster:


That explains "Green Eggs and Ham"



That deserves a LOL
All this alternative energy stuff is dangerous. Have you read about WTS?
Edit: Have you heard of Stephen Colbert?
Quoting Grothar:


Taz and I go back a long way. These names get confusing. I can't remember my kid's name now. I just say "Hey, you"
Hi, Grothar. I remember Taz before he was Taz. And before I went barefoot on the rocks. Ha. You just pretend you're old.
:)
Quoting Barefootontherocks:
Hi, Grothar. I remember Taz before he was Taz. And before I went barefoot on the rocks. Ha. You just pretend you're old.
:)


Don't tell anybody though. Pretending to be an old man, they treat you nicer. If they knew I was really a young, handsome guy, they wouldn't be so nice. :)
Quoting AussieStorm:
Hobart Tasmania Tornado.....

Share photos on twitter with Twitpic


Was there damage?
This will probably be another storm that just forms out of nowhere (i.e., it will skip the depression stage):

Quoting Grothar:


Don't tell anybody though. Pretending to be an old man, they treat you nicer. If they knew I was really a young, handsome guy, they wouldn't be so nice. :)


Yes I would.
Quoting Grothar:


Don't tell anybody though. Pretending to be an old man, they treat you nicer. If they knew I was really a young, handsome guy, they wouldn't be so nice. :)


You're not fooling anyone. Scientists have dated your childhood rock collection to the Precambrian. ;)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Green Eggs and Ham
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Not really. The Weather Channel produced a poll on its facebook page when they first announced the decision to name winter storms and many more people voted that they agreed with TWCs decision to name them than otherwise.

It may not be widely accepted in the scientific community, but they are going to have to get over it.


that would be a biased poll of already-twc fans.
Quoting Grothar:


Post 334 deserves a blob Alert, I think. I promise I won't be naming them though.
ummm.....would post #301 qualify for a blob alert? (back to lurking.........)
Greetings

Athena
Brutus

Is Caesar next?
Then Desdemona?
yikes, what is E?

Maybe y'all should pick TWC's winter storm names. Even though we know they already have made their choices. Think of the possibilities.
Quoting nickih:
Greetings

Athena
Brutus

Is Caesar next?
Then Desdemona?
yikes, what is E?

Maybe y'all should pick TWC's winter storm names. Even though we know they already have made their choices. Think of the possibilities.


I'm rather fond of Anubis.
What's up with all this early snow? It's making global warming look bad.
Quoting rattlesnake76:
What's up with all this early snow? It's making global warming look bad.


lol
Quoting rattlesnake76:
What's up with all this early snow? It's making global warming look bad.
hotter summers,colder winters, more severe storms is my guess
URGENT - FIRE WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TAMPA BAY AREA - RUSKIN FL
348 AM EST FRI NOV 9 2012

...RED FLAG WARNING IN EFFECT TODAY FOR PINELLAS...SARASOTA...AND
LEE COUNTIES...

.SEVERAL HOURS OF CRITICALLY LOW RELATIVE HUMIDITY VALUES AND ERC
VALUES OF 35 OR HIGHER WILL LEAD TO RED FLAG CONDITIONS FOR
PINELLAS...SARASOTA...AND LEE COUNTIES.

FLZ050-060-065-092300-
/O.NEW.KTBW.FW.W.0035.121109T1600Z-121109T2300Z/
PINELLAS-SARASOTA-LEE-
348 AM EST FRI NOV 9 2012

...RED FLAG WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 11 AM THIS MORNING TO 6 PM EST
THIS EVENING FOR PINELLAS...SARASOTA...AND LEE COUNTIES...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN TAMPA BAY AREA - RUSKIN FL HAS
ISSUED A RED FLAG WARNING...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 11 AM THIS
MORNING TO 6 PM EST THIS EVENING.

* AFFECTED AREA...PINELLAS...SARASOTA...LEE.

* WIND...AROUND 10 MPH.

* HUMIDITY...25 TO 30 PERCENT.

* IMPACTS...ANY FIRES THAT DEVELOP WILL LIKELY SPREAD RAPIDLY.
OUTDOOR BURNING IS NOT RECOMMENDED.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A RED FLAG WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN VERY FAVORABLE CONDITIONS FOR
THE SPREAD OF WILDFIRE ARE OCCURRING NOW...OR WILL OCCUR WITHIN
24 HOURS.

&&

$$
Good Morning Folks!..after chilly start,warm up starts today
still 10% so far...........
Quoting nickih:
Greetings

Athena
Brutus

Is Caesar next?
Then Desdemona?
yikes, what is E?

Maybe y'all should pick TWC's winter storm names. Even though we know they already have made their choices. Think of the possibilities.


Edmund would fit :)
Quoting rattlesnake76:
What's up with all this early snow? It's making global warming look bad.
Only those who don't understand climate or weather would think so. Then again, only those who don't understand climate or weather would call November snowfall "early". ;-)
Quoting Neapolitan:
Only those who don't understand climate or weather would think so. Then again, only those who don't understand climate or weather would call November snowfall "early". ;-)


Wait a minute, are you telling me that when people talk about global warming, they're not talking about winter altogether ceasing to exist? ;)

To sum for anyone who doesn't understand it: Greater planetary temperature = greater total moisture to circulate = greater snowfalls in regions that are below freezing. The number of below freezing days decreases, but if it's below freezing (or even slightly above), your odds of getting snow, especially major snowfalls, increases.

Another one that they often have trouble understanding is the prediction of both increased floods and increased droughts as a result of warming, as though people are talking about some kind of weird drought-flood which happens at the same time. The reality is that what is being talked about is an increase in seasonality of rainfall (the wetter times get wetter, the drier times get drier - basically, the expansion of the monsoon belt), an increase in the intensity of the strongest storms (the ones that cause floods), more rapid drying of the ground, and more seasonal river flow levels due to melting icepack.
EAST HILLS, N.Y. -- A nor'easter's wind, snow and rain swept through Long Island, N.Y., with pitiless severity on Wednesday night, plunging an additional 123,000 people into the dark after Hurricane Sandy ravaged the area last week. The Long Island Power Authority said the new storm's damage will also complicate efforts to restore power to the 171,000 who were still waiting for service 10 days after Hurricane Sandy struck, dozens of whom were sheltering from the cold in a village hall here on Wednesday night
lest we forget...........................
51 by me this morning but..to my north.............URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE JACKSONVILLE FL
221 AM EST FRI NOV 9 2012

FLZ020>023-030-031-035-036-040-GAZ132>136-149>152 -162>164-091400-
/O.CON.KJAX.FR.Y.0002.121109T0800Z-121109T1400Z/
HAMILTON-SUWANNEE-COLUMBIA-BAKER-UNION-BRADFORD-G ILCHRIST-ALACHUA-
MARION-COFFEE-JEFF DAVIS-BACON-APPLING-WAYNE-ATKINSON-WARE-PIERCE-
BRANTLEY-ECHOLS-CLINCH-CHARLTON-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...JASPER...LIVE OAK...LAKE CITY...
MACCLENNY...LAKE BUTLER...STARKE...TRENTON...GAINESVILLE...
OCALA...DOUGLAS...HAZLEHURST...ALMA...BAXLEY...JE SUP...PEARSON...
WAYCROSS...BLACKSHEAR...NAHUNTA...STATENVILLE...H OMERVILLE...
FOLKSTON
221 AM EST FRI NOV 9 2012

...FROST ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 9 AM EST THIS MORNING...

* TEMPERATURE...LOWS IN THE MID 30S.

* IMPACTS...AREAS OF FROST ARE EXPECTED. TENDER OUTDOOR PLANTS
SHOULD BE COVERED.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A FROST ADVISORY MEANS THAT FROST IS POSSIBLE. SENSITIVE OUTDOOR
PLANTS MAY BE KILLED IF LEFT UNCOVERED.

&&

$$
no heat,no electricity for what 10 days now, and nature keeps on punishing..gee...........SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY
420 AM EST FRI NOV 9 2012

CTZ005>012-NJZ002-004-006-103>108-NYZ067>075-078> 081-176>179-
091400-
NORTHERN FAIRFIELD-NORTHERN NEW HAVEN-NORTHERN MIDDLESEX-
NORTHERN NEW LONDON-SOUTHERN FAIRFIELD-SOUTHERN NEW HAVEN-
SOUTHERN MIDDLESEX-SOUTHERN NEW LONDON-WESTERN PASSAIC-
EASTERN PASSAIC-HUDSON-WESTERN BERGEN-EASTERN BERGEN-
WESTERN ESSEX-EASTERN ESSEX-WESTERN UNION-EASTERN UNION-ORANGE-
PUTNAM-ROCKLAND-NORTHERN WESTCHESTER-SOUTHERN WESTCHESTER-
NEW YORK (MANHATTAN)-BRONX-RICHMOND (STATEN ISLAND)-
KINGS (BROOKLYN)-NORTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-NORTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-
SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-SOUTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-NORTHERN QUEENS-
NORTHERN NASSAU-SOUTHERN QUEENS-SOUTHERN NASSAU-
420 AM EST FRI NOV 9 2012

...ICY CONDITIONS POSSIBLE DURING THE MORNING COMMUTE...

WITH TEMPERATURES DROPPING TO NEAR OR BELOW FREEZING THIS
MORNING ACROSS NEARLY THE ENTIRE TRI STATE AREA...STANDING WATER
OR SLUSH COULD FREEZE...ESPECIALLY ON UNTREATED ROADWAYS...AND ON
BRIDGES AND OVERPASSES. TRAVELERS THIS MORNING SHOULD BE PREPARED
FOR POTENTIALLY ICY CONDITIONS AND TAKE THE FOLLOWING PRECAUTIONS.

* DRIVE MORE SLOWLY...AND LEAVE PLENTY OF SPACE BETWEEN YOUR
VEHICLE AND OTHERS ON THE ROAD.

* KEEP YOUR WINDSHIELD CLEAR OF ANYTHING THAT CAN PREVENT YOU
FROM SEEING OUT OF IT PROPERLY.

* NEVER DRIVE IN POTENTIALLY ICY CONDITIONS WITH CRUISE CONTROL
ACTIVE.
4-5 days from now..strong cold front coming..........
In 1969 Hurricane Camile came to Indiana, and dropped fish from the sky, the local TV stations had a story on it, I was a youngster at the time, but it impressed the heck out of me. I live in Indiana!
My dad said back in the thirties when it rained the streets and crops were covered with a thin layer of mud.
I thought he was nuts at the time for telling me such folklore, but now it was from the dust storms in Kansas.
Something to be said about folklore!
Quoting LargoFl:
hotter summers,colder winters, more severe storms is my guess
woke to the thermometer reading 43 here in sw Florida. damm gotta wear long pants. mabee time to join the cayman boys or even pottery and move further south.
Good morning. A fairly significant damaging wind event is possible across the nation's midsection tomorrow:

Quoting Bielle:


Was there damage?


Storm threat eases in Tasmania
Friday November 9, 2012 - 20:45 EDT

The nature of today's wild weather in southern Tasmania has been described as unprecedented.
Authorities raised the alarm when minor tornadoes were spotted this morning on Hobart's Mount Wellington and at nearby Sorell.
They were followed by damaging thunderstorms, hail and heavy rainfall in the upper Derwent Valley, Southern Midlands and the entire south-east district.
Several areas reported heavy hail and localised flooding.
At Kingston, south of Hobart, 570 workers at Vodaphone's call centre had to be evacuated after its roof collapsed in the deluge.
The workers were sent home due to hazards associated with electrical equipment.
Kingston bottle shop owner Simon Hantke says he has never seen anything like it.
"I've been to Queensland and I've seen hailstorms, but not like this. It was absolutely incredible," he said.
"It created absolute carnage here. People pulling over, people scared, worried, it was just amazing."
Meanwhile, businesses on Hobart's eastern shore were hit by flash flooding and hail covered properties at Howrah and Kingston.
The State Emergency Service fielded calls from dozens of residents seeking advice about securing their homes.
Kingborough Council spokesman Paul West said a handful of homes were flooded but the worst of the wild weather appeared to be over.
"My understanding is that the worst of the front is past and there's probably a little bit more to come, but I think we've had the worst of it," he said.
"We're just monitoring the situation, we've got our workforce on call and on stand by ready to respond if necessary."
Police said there were four car crashes around the state during the severe weather.
The storm also delayed the start of the Sheffield Shield game between Tasmania and Queensland at Bellerive.
The severe thunderstorm warning was cancelled late in the afternoon.
18 dead and missing after flash flood in Indonesia
Friday November 9, 2012 - 18:33 EDT

Four children and a baby are among those missing after flash floods and landslides struck a village on Indonesia's Sulawesi island.
Officials told the AFP news agency that at least 11 people had been killed in a landslide triggered by two days of torrential downpours in Mamasa district.
Seven others were still missing on Friday afternoon.
The debris from the landslide blocked a river, causing it to burst its banks.
Roki Asikin, head of the rescue agency coordinating the search, told the news agency that the 11 dead were adults.
Indonesia frequently experiences deadly floods during its six-month-long wet season.
Environmentalists claim logging and deforestation has exacerbated the problem in recent years.
Severe thunderstorm lashes Sydney

Rob Sharpe, Friday November 9, 2012 - 14:43 EDT

Heavy rain and large hail smashed Sydney this afternoon in a severe thunderstorm.
A storm cell developed near Warragamba before crossing southwestern Sydney and racing towards the city and out to sea. The severe thunderstorm brought large hail the size of ten cent pieces as well as driving heavy rain to the city and many inner west suburbs. There were also reports of flash flooding.
The brief thunderstorm brought 10mm in just 10 minutes to the city amongst the hail while near the germination of the storm Cantebury gained 5mm in ten minutes.
At the time of the storm temperatures plunged with Olympic Park dropping nine degrees in ten minutes with winds gusting to 61km/h. Bankstown also dropped 7 degrees in 20 minutes as the storm hit.
Another thunderstorm developed near Parramatta at around 2pm before heading east along the river, bringing heavy rain.

- Weatherzone
Good morning everyone, woke up to a low of 35F. That is actually a couple degrees above average in SE MI. This system is expected to usher in warm air and highs will be in the 60s over the weekend. The cold front will bring rain that then changes to snow. There should be little accumulation if there is any.

Also, today in weather history the White Hurricane occurred. It was a massive storm that brought a lot of impacts in 1913, link.
Up to 20%.

TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
700 AM EST FRI NOV 9 2012

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

1. CLOUDINESS...SHOWERS...AND A FEW THUNDERSTORMS CENTERED ABOUT 800
MILES WEST-NORTHWEST OF THE CAPE VERDE ISLANDS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH
A SURFACE TROUGH INTERACTING WITH A LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM IN THE
MIDDLE AND UPPER LEVELS OF THE ATMOSPHERE. THIS SYSTEM HAS BECOME A
LITTLE BETTER ORGANIZED DURING THE PAST 24 HOURS. HOWEVER...
ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT...IF ANY...SHOULD BE SLOW TO OCCUR DUE TO
STRONG VERTICAL WIND SHEAR. THIS SYSTEM HAS A LOW CHANCE...
20 PERCENT...OF BECOMING A TROPICAL CYCLONE DURING THE NEXT 48
HOURS.

ELSEWHERE...TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE
NEXT 48 HOURS.

$$
FORECASTER BEVEN
381 rattlesnake76: What's up with all this early snow? It's making global warming look bad.

By allowing politics to dominate Tuesday night, WUmoderators broke the Seal of the Apocalypse, unleashing the Frost Giants' charge into Ragnarok...
OK...here's what I don't get...

It's forbidden to use individual weather events to confirm climate change...but not to deny it...
The AOI is up to 20%, it is something to watch. Shear should prevent it from becoming something major but it could develop into a TS.
409. beell
Quoting presslord:
OK...here's what I don't get...

It's forbidden to use individual weather events to confirm climate change...but not to deny it...


I missed that memo.
Quoting presslord:
OK...here's what I don't get...

It's forbidden to use individual weather events to confirm climate change...but not to deny it...



At least you said it with a straight face.
Quoting PensacolaDoug:



At least you said it with a straight face.
Quoting PensacolaDoug:



At least you said it with a straight face.


it's too damned early to be perky...
Quoting presslord:
OK...here's what I don't get...

It's forbidden to use individual weather events to confirm climate change...but not to deny it...
Very well put, sir. Yes, it's a strange calculus used by some. Increasingly frequent and severe storms, droughts, rainfalls, heat waves; rapidly vanishing sea and glacier ice; rising ocean levels. All of that, and more? Why, that's just weather, folks. Doesn't mean a thing! But wait: it snowed in New York City? In November?! Why, that is certain proof that the climate is absolutely not changing!!!!

Denialism would actually be funny if it weren't so destructive... ;-)
Quoting presslord:
OK...here's what I don't get...

It's forbidden to use individual weather events to confirm climate change...but not to deny it...


Its whatever "they" feel will drive "their" myths. C'mon Press, you should know that by now !!

Gonna be cool tonight for that Carrier Classic, but we have a fantastic Lowcountry weekend ahead !!
Quoting Chucktown:


Its whatever "they" feel will drive "their" myths. C'mon Press, you should know that by now !!

Gonna be cool tonight for that Carrier Classic, but we have a fantastic Lowcountry weekend ahead !!


Glad to hear that from you! We're gonna take some friends out on a little harbor booze cruise Sunday....
Quoting Neapolitan:
Denialism would actually be funny if it weren't so destructive... ;-)


I always thought it'd be a fun art project to commission sculptures of a dozen or so of the world's most prominent climate deniers, each of a height that corresponds with the forecast sea level rise over the next century in that location, and place them on major beaches around the world. The statue would be on a pedestal prominently engraved with a quote of them denying global warming. The base of the pedestal would be at the low tide mark and the top at the high tide mark. Each statue would be designed to last at least a few hundred years (resistant to corrosion, storm surge, etc) so that future scuba divers can enjoy them.
416. beell
It's forbidden to use individual weather events to confirm climate change...but not to deny it...

It's forbidden to use individual weather events to deny climate change...but not to confirm it...

Quoting beell:
It's forbidden to use individual weather events to confirm climate change...but not to deny it...

It's forbidden to use individual weather events to deny climate change...but not to confirm it...



Yes... well... Anecdotal evidence has always been considered very poor evidence, no matter what scientific theory one is trying to prove.
When you read key words and phrases like, unprecedented, record-breaking, we have never seen this before, greater than two standard deviations, etc. on top of a record that is at least 30 years and preferably over 100 years long...it is an indication that the long term average weather/climate is changing, right?

If we can say the ocean is warmer due to climate change, and the 5 degree Fahrenheit above average gulf stream temperatures helped Sandy build in strength farther north, that is a big case for climate change causing increased damages from Sandy. Most of the 5 degrees could be natural variability but not all of it.

Even if the storm is .78 million miles in area over an ocean 0.5 degrees warmer due to climate change, you would think one of the weather brains would be able to calculate the additional energy available to the storm instead of only one out of the whole bunch stating it "might possibly" have an effect.

Are the weather brains saying the ocean surface temperatures have not risen over a 30 year average? Isn't that the definition of climate change without even the necessity to say what caused the change? Are my definitions wrong or are they worried about funding from sources threatened by climate change issues, or both?

edit> Seriously, what about warmer sea surface temperatures over 30 year average and increased energy in storms is incorrect?
Quoting KarenRei:


I always thought it'd be a fun art project to commission sculptures of a dozen or so of the world's most prominent climate deniers, each of a height that corresponds with the forecast sea level rise over the next century in that location, and place them on major beaches around the world. The statue would be on a pedestal prominently engraved with a quote of them denying global warming. The base of the pedestal would be at the low tide mark and the top at the high tide mark. Each statue would be designed to last at least a few hundred years (resistant to corrosion, storm surge, etc) so that future scuba divers can enjoy them.
Oh, I like that idea! Of course, some would still claim that the seas weren't actually rising, but that the statues were drowning because the earth is shrinking, or because earth's gravity has magically increased in spots and that's pulling certain objects closer to the planet's center, or that a race of giant underground mole people doing the bidding of the Great Global Cabal of Climate Scientists Subverting Truth For Government Grants intentionally undermined the statues from below, causing them to sink. Or whatever. Anything to keep themselves from facing the increasingly ugly scientific reality...

Still a great idea, though. Count me in. ;-)
mmm lowcountry!
Great weather for a boil.
Quoting Grothar:


Don't tell anybody though. Pretending to be an old man, they treat you nicer. If they knew I was really a young, handsome guy, they wouldn't be so nice. :)


Quoting KarenRei:


I always thought it'd be a fun art project to commission sculptures of a dozen or so of the world's most prominent climate deniers, each of a height that corresponds with the forecast sea level rise over the next century in that location, and place them on major beaches around the world. The statue would be on a pedestal prominently engraved with a quote of them denying global warming. The base of the pedestal would be at the low tide mark and the top at the high tide mark. Each statue would be designed to last at least a few hundred years (resistant to corrosion, storm surge, etc) so that future scuba divers can enjoy them.


Except that's not the point. Deniers would even then claim it wasn't manmade in any way. Doesn't matter what happens the next however many years, they can still claim it's completely natural. Some will never except people have anything to do with it...though i still wonder why they'd think it's ok to pollute the world otherwise, even if GW itself was natural LOL
Quoting beell:
It's forbidden to use individual weather events to confirm climate change...but not to deny it...

It's forbidden to use individual weather events to deny climate change...but not to confirm it...

WELL my guess is..ask any new yorker if the climate has changed........
Quoting floridaT:
woke to the thermometer reading 43 here in sw Florida. damm gotta wear long pants. mabee time to join the cayman boys or even pottery and move further south.
yes sure was chilly around here this morning alright, dont think by my house it dipped below 50, im surrounded by water so the temps moderated some but cities north of me had frost etc..
426. atris


Quoting mitthbevnuruodo:


Except that's not the point. Deniers would even then claim it wasn't manmade in any way. Doesn't matter what happens the next however many years, they can still claim it's completely natural. Some will never except people have anything to do with it...though i still wonder why they'd think it's ok to pollute the world otherwise, even if GW itself was natural LOL


Oh , I seem to recall climate is always changing . Science has proved areas in the world were both hotter and cooler in different periods of history .

Every time you turn on electric, including using a computer you are polluting the world .Every time you drive or travel by plane, you are adding to pollution . So should we all go back a few centuries to a hunter gatherer lifestyle ? No thanks. I don't have answers but I don't see many coming up with solutions either.
OMG..yet another bad winter storm by NY and NJ etc...GFS at 300 hours..................
the big storm comes from the west..NAEFS at 294 hours....
Quoting LargoFl:
WELL my guess is..ask any new yorker if the climate has changed........


these events have happened in history before..this is not the first time NY has flooded, seen severe weather or snow from a extratropical/tropical systems-the rest of the years are in the link for viewing from wikipedia

Before 1800

between 1278 and 1438 — A major hurricane struck the modern-day New York/New Jersey area, probably the strongest in recent millennium.[1]
August 25, 1635 — A hurricane that is reported to have tracked parallel to the East Coast impacts New England and New York, although it remains unknown if any damage occurred.[2]
September 8, 1667 — A 'severe storm' is reported in Manhattan and is reported to be a continuation of a powerful hurricane which affected the Mid-Atlantic.[2]
October 29, 1693 — The Great Storm of 1693 causes severe damage on Long Island, and is reported to create the Fire Island Cut as a result of the coast-changing storm surge and waves.[2][3]
September 23, 1785 — Several large ships crash into Governors Island as a result of powerful waves which are reported to have been generated by a tropical cyclone.[3]
August 19, 1788 — A hurricane strikes New York City or Long Island and is reported to have left the west side of the Battery "laid in ruins" after severe flooding occurs.[3]

1800–99
Estimated track of the 1821 Norfolk and Long Island hurricane

October 9, 1804 — Heavy snow falls in Eastern New York peaking at 30 inches (75 cm) as a hurricane tracks northward along the East Coast and becomes extratropical, as cold air fed into the system.[4]
September 5, 1815 — A hurricane tracks over North Carolina and parallels the East Coast before producing a heavy rainstorm in New York.[5]
September 24, 1815 — Several hundred trees fall and the majority of the fruit was stripped off apple trees just prior to harvesting time after a hurricane makes landfall on Long Island.[6]
September 16, 1816 — A possible hurricane strikes New York City, but damage remains unknown.[2]
August 9, 1817 — A tropical storm produces heavy rainfall in New York City and Long Island.[2]
September 3, 1821 — The 1821 Norfolk and Long Island hurricane results in severe damage on Long Island and is accompanied by storm surge of 13 feet (4 m). High wind causes a ship to crash on Long Island killing 17 people.[7]
June 4, 1825 — A hurricane moves off the East Coast and tracks south of New York causing several ship wrecks, and killing seven people.[3]
August 27, 1827 — High tides are reported in New York City which are caused by a hurricane offshore.[8]
August 1, 1830 – A hurricane passes to the east of New York and produces gale-force winds to New York City and Long Island.[9]
October 4, 1841 — Gale–force winds affect New York City as a hurricane tracks north along the East Coast of the United States. Damage is estimated at $2 million (1841 USD, $41 million 2007 USD).[10]

October 13, 1846 — The Great Havana Hurricane of 1846 tracks inland, causing some damage to New York City.[3]
October 6, 1849 — Severe structural damage occurs in New York City and Long Island with the passage of a hurricane to the east.[3]
July 19, 1850 — A hurricane destroys a Coney Island bath house and causes heavy rain, although damage is unknown.[3] This storm destroyed the ship Elizabeth off Fire Island and drowned American transcendentalist Margaret Fuller.
August 24, 1850 — A storm that is reported to be a hurricane affects New York and New England although there is no known damage.[2]
September 9, 1854 — A hurricane brushes the East Coast from Florida to New England causing rain on Long Island.[3]
September 16, 1858 — Low barometric pressure of 28.87 inches mercury at Sag Harbor is reported, and is thought to be associated with a tropical cyclone which causes no known damage.[3]
September 6, 1869 — A category 3 hurricane makes landfall in Rhode Island and brushes Long Island, which is affected by rain, although minimal damage resulted from the storm.[3]
October 28, 1872 — A tropical storm passes over New York City and Long Island.[11]
October 1, 1874 — New York City and the Hudson Valley receives rainfall after a minimal tropical storm tracked over Eastern New York.[11]
September 19, 1876 — The remnants of the San Felipe hurricane track over western New York State, although damage is unknown.[11]
October 24, 1878 — The state is affected by tropical storm-force winds and heavy rain with the passage of a hurricane, which made landfall in Virginia.[11][12]
August 22, 1888 — A tropical storm tracks over New York City before tracking north along the East Coast of the United States.[11]
August 24, 1893 — Hog Island is washed away by strong storm surge associated with a tropical storm of unknown strength.[3] According to HURDAT, this was a Category 1 hurricane that struck the western end of the Rockaway Peninsula, passing through Brooklyn as a weakening hurricane. Manhattan Island saw gale force winds to 56 mph.
October 10, 1894 10 People were killed and 15 injured at 74 Monroe Street in Manhattan when winds blew a building under construction onto a tenement crushing it. Extensive damage in the NYC and Long Island to telegraph lines, trees and boats docked on shore. Storm formed over Gulf of Mexico as a Category 3 weakened over land in the Southeast and re strengthened to a Category 1 over the Chesapeake Bay before striking Long Island.[13][14]

1900–49
Storm surge from the 1938 New England hurricane

September 17, 1903 — The 1903 Vagabond Hurricane produces wind gusts in excess of 65 mph (105 km/h) and 3 inches (75 mm) of rain in Central Park.[15]
August 15, 1904 — A Category 2 hurricane skirts the East Coast of the United States producing gale-force winds and heavy rain in Eastern New York and Long Island.[16]
August 2, 1908 — A hurricane develops near North Carolina and moves northward along the coast, brushing Long Island.[17]
July 21, 1916 — Strong winds are reported on Long Island as a category 3 hurricane passes to the east.[3]
August 25, 1933 — The 1933 Chesapeake Potomac Hurricane produces up to 6 inches (150 mm) of rain in Southeast New York State; other damage is unknown.[18]
September 8, 1934 — A strong tropical storm makes landfall on Long Island.[19]
September 20, 1936 — Strong waves and storm surge associated with a powerful hurricane floods much of Long Beach Island and causes severe beach erosion along the coast.[20]
September 21, 1938 — The New England Hurricane of 1938 (Also Called "The Long Island Express") makes landfall on Suffolk County (Long Island) as a category 3 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale.[21] Wind gusts of 125 mph (200 km/h) and storm surge of 18 feet (5 m) washes across part of the island.[22] In New York 60 deaths and hundreds of injuries were attributed to the storm.[23] In addition, 2,600 boats and 8,900 houses are destroyed.[24] Throughout New England the hurricane killed over 682 people,[25] damaged or destroyed over 57,000 homes, and caused property losses estimated at $4.7 billion (2005 US dollars).[26]
September 14, 1944 — The 1944 Great Atlantic Hurricane makes landfall on Long Island as a category 1 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale at a high forward speed of 40 mph (64 km/h). Wind gusts of well over 100 mph (160 km/h) breaks previous wind records in New York City, while a minimum pressure reading of 28.47 inches is recorded on Long Island. 117 homes are completely destroyed, while 2,427 are severely damaged and almost 1000 businesses are destroyed or damaged. In all, six people are killed, and one person is injured.[27]
September 18, 1945 — A weak tropical depression crosses into Southeastern New York.[11]
August 29, 1949 — A tropical storm tracks into Central New York causing no known damage.[11]

1950–74
Rainfall from Hurricane Agnes (1972)

1954 — Hurricane Hazel - wind gust of 113 mph at Battery Park, highest ever recorded in New York City.
August 31, 1954 — Hurricane Carol makes landfall on Long Island and produces wind gusts of 120 miles per hour (190 km/h) on Montauk Point.[3] On eastern Long Island near where Carol made landfall, a pressure of 960 mbar is recorded.[28] Winds on the island gust to 120 mph (195 km/h). The hurricane's storm surge covers the Montauk Highway in Montauk, effectively isolating eastern Long Island for a period of time. Due to the compact nature of the storm, most of Long Island is largely unaffected by the hurricane.[28] Specific damage totals for New York are unknown, although the storm in its entirety causes $460 million (1954 USD) in damage.[28]
September 10, 1954 — Hurricane Edna tracks to the east of Long Island producing 9 inches (230 mm) of rain.[3] Prior to the storm, New York City orders an emergency standby for the majority of its hospitals, and subways.[29]
August 13, 1955 — Hurricane Connie produces 13.24 inches (370 mm) of rain in Southeast New York, although damage is unknown.[30]
September 28, 1956 — Hurricane Flossy tracks to the south of Long Island, brushing it with light rainfall.[31]
October 1, 1959 — The remnants of Hurricane Gracie track into Central New York and drops up to 6 inches (150 mm) of rain.[32]
September 11, 1960 — Hurricane Donna makes landfall on Long Island as a Category 2 hurricane. Sustained winds of 100 mph (160 km/h) on eastern Long Island and 70 mph (110 km/h) winds on western Long Island are reported, and tides are 6 feet (2 m) above normal along most of the coast. Strong waves also cause beach erosion and several homes along the shore to be destroyed. Due to well-executed warnings, damages are extremely low, and it is reported that no deaths result from the storm.[33]
September 21, 1961 — Hurricane Esther causes $3 million (1961 USD, $20 million 2007 USD) in damage in Suffolk County as it tracks to the east of Long Island. Coastal areas of Long Island were flooded, as well as storm surge and wind gusts of 108 mph (173 km/h), which causes 260,000 homes to be left without power.[34]
October 8, 1962 — Hurricane Daisy tracks east of New England, producing light rainfall in extreme eastern portions of Upstate New York.[35]
September 23, 1964 — Beach erosion and moderate wind gusts are reported on Long Island as Hurricane Gladys tracks a couple hundred miles south of New York.[36]
October 19, 1964 — Light rainfall is reported as Hurricane Isbell tracks off the coast.[37]
September 10, 1969 — Rainfall up to 3 inches (75 mm) is reported on Long Island and in portions of Southeastern New York associated with Hurricane Gerda.[38]
August 28, 1971 — Tropical Storm Doria produces up to 8 inches (200 mm) of rain in New York City and Upstate New York causing moderate to severe flooding and floods subways in New York City.[39][40]
June 22, 1972 — Hurricane Agnes makes landfall near New York City and produces up to 12 inches (300 mm) of rain in Southeastern New York State and much of Western New York, with locally higher amounts. Storm tides of 3.1 feet (1 m) and wind gusts of 55 miles per hour (89 km/h) occur in New York City, and severe river flooding causes six deaths.[41]
September 4, 1972 — Tropical Storm Carrie produces light rainfall on the eastern end of Long Island.[42]



new Nam at 42 hours, storming in the midwest looks like....
431. atris
Quoting ncstorm:


these events have happened in history before..this is not the first time NY has flooded, seen severe weather or snow from a extratropical/tropical systems-the rest of the years are in the link for viewing from wikipedia

Before 1800

between 1278 and 1438 — A major hurricane struck the modern-day New York/New Jersey area, probably the strongest in recent millennium.[1]
August 25, 1635 — A hurricane that is reported to have tracked parallel to the East Coast impacts New England and New York, although it remains unknown if any damage occurred.[2]
September 8, 1667 — A 'severe storm' is reported in Manhattan and is reported to be a continuation of a powerful hurricane which affected the Mid-Atlantic.[2]
October 29, 1693 — The Great Storm of 1693 causes severe damage on Long Island, and is reported to create the Fire Island Cut as a result of the coast-changing storm surge and waves.[2][3]
September 23, 1785 — Several large ships crash into Governors Island as a result of powerful waves which are reported to have been generated by a tropical cyclone.[3]
August 19, 1788 — A hurricane strikes New York City or Long Island and is reported to have left the west side of the Battery "laid in ruins" after severe flooding occurs.[3]

1800–99
Estimated track of the 1821 Norfolk and Long Island hurricane

October 9, 1804 — Heavy snow falls in Eastern New York peaking at 30 inches (75 cm) as a hurricane tracks northward along the East Coast and becomes extratropical, as cold air fed into the system.[4]
September 5, 1815 — A hurricane tracks over North Carolina and parallels the East Coast before producing a heavy rainstorm in New York.[5]
September 24, 1815 — Several hundred trees fall and the majority of the fruit was stripped off apple trees just prior to harvesting time after a hurricane makes landfall on Long Island.[6]
September 16, 1816 — A possible hurricane strikes New York City, but damage remains unknown.[2]
August 9, 1817 — A tropical storm produces heavy rainfall in New York City and Long Island.[2]
September 3, 1821 — The 1821 Norfolk and Long Island hurricane results in severe damage on Long Island and is accompanied by storm surge of 13 feet (4 m). High wind causes a ship to crash on Long Island killing 17 people.[7]
June 4, 1825 — A hurricane moves off the East Coast and tracks south of New York causing several ship wrecks, and killing seven people.[3]
August 27, 1827 — High tides are reported in New York City which are caused by a hurricane offshore.[8]
August 1, 1830 – A hurricane passes to the east of New York and produces gale-force winds to New York City and Long Island.[9]
October 4, 1841 — Gale–force winds affect New York City as a hurricane tracks north along the East Coast of the United States. Damage is estimated at $2 million (1841 USD, $41 million 2007 USD).[10]

October 13, 1846 — The Great Havana Hurricane of 1846 tracks inland, causing some damage to New York City.[3]
October 6, 1849 — Severe structural damage occurs in New York City and Long Island with the passage of a hurricane to the east.[3]
July 19, 1850 — A hurricane destroys a Coney Island bath house and causes heavy rain, although damage is unknown.[3] This storm destroyed the ship Elizabeth off Fire Island and drowned American transcendentalist Margaret Fuller.
August 24, 1850 — A storm that is reported to be a hurricane affects New York and New England although there is no known damage.[2]
September 9, 1854 — A hurricane brushes the East Coast from Florida to New England causing rain on Long Island.[3]
September 16, 1858 — Low barometric pressure of 28.87 inches mercury at Sag Harbor is reported, and is thought to be associated with a tropical cyclone which causes no known damage.[3]
September 6, 1869 — A category 3 hurricane makes landfall in Rhode Island and brushes Long Island, which is affected by rain, although minimal damage resulted from the storm.[3]
October 28, 1872 — A tropical storm passes over New York City and Long Island.[11]
October 1, 1874 — New York City and the Hudson Valley receives rainfall after a minimal tropical storm tracked over Eastern New York.[11]
September 19, 1876 — The remnants of the San Felipe hurricane track over western New York State, although damage is unknown.[11]
October 24, 1878 — The state is affected by tropical storm-force winds and heavy rain with the passage of a hurricane, which made landfall in Virginia.[11][12]
August 22, 1888 — A tropical storm tracks over New York City before tracking north along the East Coast of the United States.[11]
August 24, 1893 — Hog Island is washed away by strong storm surge associated with a tropical storm of unknown strength.[3] According to HURDAT, this was a Category 1 hurricane that struck the western end of the Rockaway Peninsula, passing through Brooklyn as a weakening hurricane. Manhattan Island saw gale force winds to 56 mph.
October 10, 1894 10 People were killed and 15 injured at 74 Monroe Street in Manhattan when winds blew a building under construction onto a tenement crushing it. Extensive damage in the NYC and Long Island to telegraph lines, trees and boats docked on shore. Storm formed over Gulf of Mexico as a Category 3 weakened over land in the Southeast and re strengthened to a Category 1 over the Chesapeake Bay before striking Long Island.[13][14]

1900–49
Storm surge from the 1938 New England hurricane

September 17, 1903 — The 1903 Vagabond Hurricane produces wind gusts in excess of 65 mph (105 km/h) and 3 inches (75 mm) of rain in Central Park.[15]
August 15, 1904 — A Category 2 hurricane skirts the East Coast of the United States producing gale-force winds and heavy rain in Eastern New York and Long Island.[16]
August 2, 1908 — A hurricane develops near North Carolina and moves northward along the coast, brushing Long Island.[17]
July 21, 1916 — Strong winds are reported on Long Island as a category 3 hurricane passes to the east.[3]
August 25, 1933 — The 1933 Chesapeake Potomac Hurricane produces up to 6 inches (150 mm) of rain in Southeast New York State; other damage is unknown.[18]
September 8, 1934 — A strong tropical storm makes landfall on Long Island.[19]
September 20, 1936 — Strong waves and storm surge associated with a powerful hurricane floods much of Long Beach Island and causes severe beach erosion along the coast.[20]
September 21, 1938 — The New England Hurricane of 1938 (Also Called "The Long Island Express") makes landfall on Suffolk County (Long Island) as a category 3 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale.[21] Wind gusts of 125 mph (200 km/h) and storm surge of 18 feet (5 m) washes across part of the island.[22] In New York 60 deaths and hundreds of injuries were attributed to the storm.[23] In addition, 2,600 boats and 8,900 houses are destroyed.[24] Throughout New England the hurricane killed over 682 people,[25] damaged or destroyed over 57,000 homes, and caused property losses estimated at $4.7 billion (2005 US dollars).[26]
September 14, 1944 — The 1944 Great Atlantic Hurricane makes landfall on Long Island as a category 1 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale at a high forward speed of 40 mph (64 km/h). Wind gusts of well over 100 mph (160 km/h) breaks previous wind records in New York City, while a minimum pressure reading of 28.47 inches is recorded on Long Island. 117 homes are completely destroyed, while 2,427 are severely damaged and almost 1000 businesses are destroyed or damaged. In all, six people are killed, and one person is injured.[27]
September 18, 1945 — A weak tropical depression crosses into Southeastern New York.[11]
August 29, 1949 — A tropical storm tracks into Central New York causing no known damage.[11]

1950–74
Rainfall from Hurricane Agnes (1972)

1954 — Hurricane Hazel - wind gust of 113 mph at Battery Park, highest ever recorded in New York City.
August 31, 1954 — Hurricane Carol makes landfall on Long Island and produces wind gusts of 120 miles per hour (190 km/h) on Montauk Point.[3] On eastern Long Island near where Carol made landfall, a pressure of 960 mbar is recorded.[28] Winds on the island gust to 120 mph (195 km/h). The hurricane's storm surge covers the Montauk Highway in Montauk, effectively isolating eastern Long Island for a period of time. Due to the compact nature of the storm, most of Long Island is largely unaffected by the hurricane.[28] Specific damage totals for New York are unknown, although the storm in its entirety causes $460 million (1954 USD) in damage.[28]
September 10, 1954 — Hurricane Edna tracks to the east of Long Island producing 9 inches (230 mm) of rain.[3] Prior to the storm, New York City orders an emergency standby for the majority of its hospitals, and subways.[29]
August 13, 1955 — Hurricane Connie produces 13.24 inches (370 mm) of rain in Southeast New York, although damage is unknown.[30]
September 28, 1956 — Hurricane Flossy tracks to the south of Long Island, brushing it with light rainfall.[31]
October 1, 1959 — The remnants of Hurricane Gracie track into Central New York and drops up to 6 inches (150 mm) of rain.[32]
September 11, 1960 — Hurricane Donna makes landfall on Long Island as a Category 2 hurricane. Sustained winds of 100 mph (160 km/h) on eastern Long Island and 70 mph (110 km/h) winds on western Long Island are reported, and tides are 6 feet (2 m) above normal along most of the coast. Strong waves also cause beach erosion and several homes along the shore to be destroyed. Due to well-executed warnings, damages are extremely low, and it is reported that no deaths result from the storm.[33]
September 21, 1961 — Hurricane Esther causes $3 million (1961 USD, $20 million 2007 USD) in damage in Suffolk County as it tracks to the east of Long Island. Coastal areas of Long Island were flooded, as well as storm surge and wind gusts of 108 mph (173 km/h), which causes 260,000 homes to be left without power.[34]
October 8, 1962 — Hurricane Daisy tracks east of New England, producing light rainfall in extreme eastern portions of Upstate New York.[35]
September 23, 1964 — Beach erosion and moderate wind gusts are reported on Long Island as Hurricane Gladys tracks a couple hundred miles south of New York.[36]
October 19, 1964 — Light rainfall is reported as Hurricane Isbell tracks off the coast.[37]
September 10, 1969 — Rainfall up to 3 inches (75 mm) is reported on Long Island and in portions of Southeastern New York associated with Hurricane Gerda.[38]
August 28, 1971 — Tropical Storm Doria produces up to 8 inches (200 mm) of rain in New York City and Upstate New York causing moderate to severe flooding and floods subways in New York City.[39][40]
June 22, 1972 — Hurricane Agnes makes landfall near New York City and produces up to 12 inches (300 mm) of rain in Southeastern New York State and much of Western New York, with locally higher amounts. Storm tides of 3.1 feet (1 m) and wind gusts of 55 miles per hour (89 km/h) occur in New York City, and severe river flooding causes six deaths.[41]
September 4, 1972 — Tropical Storm Carrie produces light rainfall on the eastern end of Long Island.[42]





Thanks!! that is really interesting information
one has to remember, nothing stays the same, climate included, in earths history, it has gone from hot to cold many many times, we humans live so short a time span in comparison so our memories of climate are short..are we going to get hotter OR are we going to get colder as the years go by..That..is the million dollar question..i seriously doubt anyone alive today even babies born Today..will see which way the earth is going to go..but..sometime,someday..those alive in that time..Will see it
If the current pattern continues then New Jersey and areas northward will be getting all the snow this winter.Damn can't win for nothing.I guess the winter of 09-10 was a once in a lifetime event.
Quoting ncstorm:


these events have happened in history before..this is not the first time NY has flooded, seen severe weather or snow from a extratropical/tropical systems-the rest of the years are in the link for viewing from wikipedia

Before 1800

between 1278 and 1438 %u2014 A major hurricane struck the modern-day New York/New Jersey area, probably the strongest in recent millennium.[1]
August 25, 1635 %u2014 A hurricane that is reported to have tracked parallel to the East Coast impacts New England and New York, although it remains unknown if any damage occurred.[2]
September 8, 1667 %u2014 A 'severe storm' is reported in Manhattan and is reported to be a continuation of a powerful hurricane which affected the Mid-Atlantic.[2]
October 29, 1693 %u2014 The Great Storm of 1693 causes severe damage on Long Island, and is reported to create the Fire Island Cut as a result of the coast-changing storm surge and waves.[2][3]
September 23, 1785 %u2014 Several large ships crash into Governors Island as a result of powerful waves which are reported to have been generated by a tropical cyclone.[3]
August 19, 1788 %u2014 A hurricane strikes New York City or Long Island and is reported to have left the west side of the Battery "laid in ruins" after severe flooding occurs.[3]

1800%u201399
Estimated track of the 1821 Norfolk and Long Island hurricane

October 9, 1804 %u2014 Heavy snow falls in Eastern New York peaking at 30 inches (75 cm) as a hurricane tracks northward along the East Coast and becomes extratropical, as cold air fed into the system.[4]
September 5, 1815 %u2014 A hurricane tracks over North Carolina and parallels the East Coast before producing a heavy rainstorm in New York.[5]
September 24, 1815 %u2014 Several hundred trees fall and the majority of the fruit was stripped off apple trees just prior to harvesting time after a hurricane makes landfall on Long Island.[6]
September 16, 1816 %u2014 A possible hurricane strikes New York City, but damage remains unknown.[2]
August 9, 1817 %u2014 A tropical storm produces heavy rainfall in New York City and Long Island.[2]
September 3, 1821 %u2014 The 1821 Norfolk and Long Island hurricane results in severe damage on Long Island and is accompanied by storm surge of 13 feet (4 m). High wind causes a ship to crash on Long Island killing 17 people.[7]
June 4, 1825 %u2014 A hurricane moves off the East Coast and tracks south of New York causing several ship wrecks, and killing seven people.[3]
August 27, 1827 %u2014 High tides are reported in New York City which are caused by a hurricane offshore.[8]
August 1, 1830 %u2013 A hurricane passes to the east of New York and produces gale-force winds to New York City and Long Island.[9]
October 4, 1841 %u2014 Gale%u2013force winds affect New York City as a hurricane tracks north along the East Coast of the United States. Damage is estimated at $2 million (1841 USD, $41 million 2007 USD).[10]

October 13, 1846 %u2014 The Great Havana Hurricane of 1846 tracks inland, causing some damage to New York City.[3]
October 6, 1849 %u2014 Severe structural damage occurs in New York City and Long Island with the passage of a hurricane to the east.[3]
July 19, 1850 %u2014 A hurricane destroys a Coney Island bath house and causes heavy rain, although damage is unknown.[3] This storm destroyed the ship Elizabeth off Fire Island and drowned American transcendentalist Margaret Fuller.
August 24, 1850 %u2014 A storm that is reported to be a hurricane affects New York and New England although there is no known damage.[2]
September 9, 1854 %u2014 A hurricane brushes the East Coast from Florida to New England causing rain on Long Island.[3]
September 16, 1858 %u2014 Low barometric pressure of 28.87 inches mercury at Sag Harbor is reported, and is thought to be associated with a tropical cyclone which causes no known damage.[3]
September 6, 1869 %u2014 A category 3 hurricane makes landfall in Rhode Island and brushes Long Island, which is affected by rain, although minimal damage resulted from the storm.[3]
October 28, 1872 %u2014 A tropical storm passes over New York City and Long Island.[11]
October 1, 1874 %u2014 New York City and the Hudson Valley receives rainfall after a minimal tropical storm tracked over Eastern New York.[11]
September 19, 1876 %u2014 The remnants of the San Felipe hurricane track over western New York State, although damage is unknown.[11]
October 24, 1878 %u2014 The state is affected by tropical storm-force winds and heavy rain with the passage of a hurricane, which made landfall in Virginia.[11][12]
August 22, 1888 %u2014 A tropical storm tracks over New York City before tracking north along the East Coast of the United States.[11]
August 24, 1893 %u2014 Hog Island is washed away by strong storm surge associated with a tropical storm of unknown strength.[3] According to HURDAT, this was a Category 1 hurricane that struck the western end of the Rockaway Peninsula, passing through Brooklyn as a weakening hurricane. Manhattan Island saw gale force winds to 56 mph.
October 10, 1894 10 People were killed and 15 injured at 74 Monroe Street in Manhattan when winds blew a building under construction onto a tenement crushing it. Extensive damage in the NYC and Long Island to telegraph lines, trees and boats docked on shore. Storm formed over Gulf of Mexico as a Category 3 weakened over land in the Southeast and re strengthened to a Category 1 over the Chesapeake Bay before striking Long Island.[13][14]

1900%u201349
Storm surge from the 1938 New England hurricane

September 17, 1903 %u2014 The 1903 Vagabond Hurricane produces wind gusts in excess of 65 mph (105 km/h) and 3 inches (75 mm) of rain in Central Park.[15]
August 15, 1904 %u2014 A Category 2 hurricane skirts the East Coast of the United States producing gale-force winds and heavy rain in Eastern New York and Long Island.[16]
August 2, 1908 %u2014 A hurricane develops near North Carolina and moves northward along the coast, brushing Long Island.[17]
July 21, 1916 %u2014 Strong winds are reported on Long Island as a category 3 hurricane passes to the east.[3]
August 25, 1933 %u2014 The 1933 Chesapeake Potomac Hurricane produces up to 6 inches (150 mm) of rain in Southeast New York State; other damage is unknown.[18]
September 8, 1934 %u2014 A strong tropical storm makes landfall on Long Island.[19]
September 20, 1936 %u2014 Strong waves and storm surge associated with a powerful hurricane floods much of Long Beach Island and causes severe beach erosion along the coast.[20]
September 21, 1938 %u2014 The New England Hurricane of 1938 (Also Called "The Long Island Express") makes landfall on Suffolk County (Long Island) as a category 3 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale.[21] Wind gusts of 125 mph (200 km/h) and storm surge of 18 feet (5 m) washes across part of the island.[22] In New York 60 deaths and hundreds of injuries were attributed to the storm.[23] In addition, 2,600 boats and 8,900 houses are destroyed.[24] Throughout New England the hurricane killed over 682 people,[25] damaged or destroyed over 57,000 homes, and caused property losses estimated at $4.7 billion (2005 US dollars).[26]
September 14, 1944 %u2014 The 1944 Great Atlantic Hurricane makes landfall on Long Island as a category 1 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale at a high forward speed of 40 mph (64 km/h). Wind gusts of well over 100 mph (160 km/h) breaks previous wind records in New York City, while a minimum pressure reading of 28.47 inches is recorded on Long Island. 117 homes are completely destroyed, while 2,427 are severely damaged and almost 1000 businesses are destroyed or damaged. In all, six people are killed, and one person is injured.[27]
September 18, 1945 %u2014 A weak tropical depression crosses into Southeastern New York.[11]
August 29, 1949 %u2014 A tropical storm tracks into Central New York causing no known damage.[11]

1950%u201374
Rainfall from Hurricane Agnes (1972)

1954 %u2014 Hurricane Hazel - wind gust of 113 mph at Battery Park, highest ever recorded in New York City.
August 31, 1954 %u2014 Hurricane Carol makes landfall on Long Island and produces wind gusts of 120 miles per hour (190 km/h) on Montauk Point.[3] On eastern Long Island near where Carol made landfall, a pressure of 960 mbar is recorded.[28] Winds on the island gust to 120 mph (195 km/h). The hurricane's storm surge covers the Montauk Highway in Montauk, effectively isolating eastern Long Island for a period of time. Due to the compact nature of the storm, most of Long Island is largely unaffected by the hurricane.[28] Specific damage totals for New York are unknown, although the storm in its entirety causes $460 million (1954 USD) in damage.[28]
September 10, 1954 %u2014 Hurricane Edna tracks to the east of Long Island producing 9 inches (230 mm) of rain.[3] Prior to the storm, New York City orders an emergency standby for the majority of its hospitals, and subways.[29]
August 13, 1955 %u2014 Hurricane Connie produces 13.24 inches (370 mm) of rain in Southeast New York, although damage is unknown.[30]
September 28, 1956 %u2014 Hurricane Flossy tracks to the south of Long Island, brushing it with light rainfall.[31]
October 1, 1959 %u2014 The remnants of Hurricane Gracie track into Central New York and drops up to 6 inches (150 mm) of rain.[32]
September 11, 1960 %u2014 Hurricane Donna makes landfall on Long Island as a Category 2 hurricane. Sustained winds of 100 mph (160 km/h) on eastern Long Island and 70 mph (110 km/h) winds on western Long Island are reported, and tides are 6 feet (2 m) above normal along most of the coast. Strong waves also cause beach erosion and several homes along the shore to be destroyed. Due to well-executed warnings, damages are extremely low, and it is reported that no deaths result from the storm.[33]
September 21, 1961 %u2014 Hurricane Esther causes $3 million (1961 USD, $20 million 2007 USD) in damage in Suffolk County as it tracks to the east of Long Island. Coastal areas of Long Island were flooded, as well as storm surge and wind gusts of 108 mph (173 km/h), which causes 260,000 homes to be left without power.[34]
October 8, 1962 %u2014 Hurricane Daisy tracks east of New England, producing light rainfall in extreme eastern portions of Upstate New York.[35]
September 23, 1964 %u2014 Beach erosion and moderate wind gusts are reported on Long Island as Hurricane Gladys tracks a couple hundred miles south of New York.[36]
October 19, 1964 %u2014 Light rainfall is reported as Hurricane Isbell tracks off the coast.[37]
September 10, 1969 %u2014 Rainfall up to 3 inches (75 mm) is reported on Long Island and in portions of Southeastern New York associated with Hurricane Gerda.[38]
August 28, 1971 %u2014 Tropical Storm Doria produces up to 8 inches (200 mm) of rain in New York City and Upstate New York causing moderate to severe flooding and floods subways in New York City.[39][40]
June 22, 1972 %u2014 Hurricane Agnes makes landfall near New York City and produces up to 12 inches (300 mm) of rain in Southeastern New York State and much of Western New York, with locally higher amounts. Storm tides of 3.1 feet (1 m) and wind gusts of 55 miles per hour (89 km/h) occur in New York City, and severe river flooding causes six deaths.[41]
September 4, 1972 %u2014 Tropical Storm Carrie produces light rainfall on the eastern end of Long Island.[42]



note..not one of these dates means anything, ALL were before the climate change, and we could go even further back in time..does not matter one iota..if the climate IS changing..the record we track is from now on..and dont forget modern humans capable of tracking weather..have been here how long?..10,000 years maybe..a mere blink of an eye in earths history
I feel as though New Jersey is like the NOLA in this situation.Where it gets all the attention while other places(Like Staten island which would be the Mississipii in this case) isn't really talked about and is ignored by many.
what should worry folks is human habits, somehow we love to live right on the shoreline, at the waters edge,it seems the storms today are growing in size and strength, and many more katrina's and sandy's will come..climate change wether it happens or not..millions are at risk and unless human habits change and we adapt to the change and make parkland along the coastlines..we will have many more nyc happenings etc..arguing about climate change doesnt mean anything in the real world..something terrible is coming down the pike and unless WE adapt to it..we go the way of the dinosaurs etc..they did not adapt..can we?
Quoting LargoFl:
note..not one of these dates means anything, ALL were before the climate change, and we could go even further back in time..does not matter one iota..if the climate IS changing..the record we track is from now on..and dont forget modern humans capable of tracking weather..have been here how long?..10,000 years maybe..a mere blink of an eye in earths history


Wait..I thought climate change was due to fossil fuels and fossil fuels have been used for how long? Im confuse?

Sandy just happened and to contribute Sandy to "climate change or GW" is premature, People on this blog love to use "facts" as an argument..it would take comprehensive studies to determine these "facts"..we wouldnt want to distort the agenda by using Sandy as a case when it hasn't even been proven yet...unless someone has a time machine and has already jetted into the future and conducted those studies and brought them back to present day, I will say until then, NY and NJ and any other state in the NE was just extremely unlucky in the set up of the weather pattern..
Quoting washingtonian115:
I feel as though New Jersey is like the NOLA in this situation.Where it gets all the attention while other places(Like Staten island which would be the Mississipii in this case) isn't really talked about and is ignored by many.


500,000 people are still without power and gas is being rationed out..dire situation up there..those cities outside NY are falling off the radar unfortunately..
Quoting presslord:


it's too damned early to be perky...


No it's not. I was perky 5 hours ago. Obnoxiously perky, as a matter of fact. :)
Quoting LargoFl:
what should worry folks is human habits, somehow we love to live right on the shoreline, at the waters edge,it seems the storms today are growing in size and strength, and many more katrina's and sandy's will come..climate change wether it happens or not..millions are at risk and unless human habits change and we adapt to the change and make parkland along the coastlines..we will have many more nyc happenings etc..arguing about climate change doesnt mean anything in the real world..something terrible is coming down the pike and unless WE adapt to it..we go the way of the dinosaurs etc..they did not adapt..can we?
No it's what happens when you have greedy developers that want to build along the shores and charge high prices for the proporty.They keep building and building you see Miami..prime example.
Quoting ncstorm:


Wait..I thought climate change was due to fossil fuels and fossil fuels have been used for how long? Im confuse?

Sandy just happened and to contribute Sandy to "climate change or GW" is premature, People on this blog love to use "facts" as an argument..it would take comprehensive studies to determine these "facts"..we wouldnt want to distort the agenda by using Sandy as a case when it hasn't even been proven yet...unless someone has a time machine and has already jetted into the future and conducted those studies and brought them back to present day, I will say until then, NY and NJ and any other state in the NE was just extremely unlucky in the set up of the weather pattern..
Ohhhh don't say that they'll try to prove you wrong with facts you dinier!.

Seriously when people say dinier it sounds sorta like..Pre-K to me.Anyone else agree?.

As we have learned before Earth has went through cycles of warming and cooling.I don't think man is responsible for all that has happened like some people in the AGW crowed have said.Yes their are cleaner ways we can use stuff like our cars and other things that make a carbon print.But I'm not giving them up in the process.
Storm diameter is 1,040 miles or a circular area of 0.849 million miles... or 23.668 trillion square feet.

Just estimating one gallon per surface square foot, at an increased temperature of 0.3 F due to global warming of ocean temperatures (tropical Atlantic increase over 60 year average) would be the equivalent of 7.1 trillion gallons up 1 degree... is 7.1 trillion BTUs of additional thermal energy in the top few inches of the ocean under hurricane Sandy. or 2.79 Billion extra horse power.
How is my math?

Do you think 2.79 billion horse power pushing wind or waves or rain could cause additional damage? That isn't even the top foot of ocean under Sandy.

So we can't talk about an individual storm, but we can talk about ocean temperature change, and available additional energy. And storm size can be talked about.
hummm.


edit>7.1 trillion btu's in perspective is 1,789 kton or a 10th of an atomic bomb's worth of additional energy in the top few inches of the ocean.
Quoting ncstorm (#429):


these events have happened in history before..this is not the first time NY has flooded, seen severe weather or snow from a extratropical/tropical systems-the rest of the years are in the link for viewing from wikipedia

[snip]
Looking at that list, I count 4 pre-August storms, 14 August storms, 21 September storms, 9 storms that occurred in the first half of October, and just four that took place in the second half of October.

Of those latter four, NYC was affected by:

--The Great Storm of 1693, which made landfall in Virginia;
--The rains and wind of a minimal tropical storm that had been over land since making landfall in North Carolina (1872);
--The rains of another that made landfall in Virginia (1878);
--The "light rains" from Isbell (1964) as it passed offshore to the east.

Assuming the limited anecdotal evidence is correct, then, the only one of those four that could possibly compare to Sandy in terms of ferocity was "The Great Storm of 1693", which few were around to witness or document. But even then, the storm didn't make landfall from the east, but came up from the southwest, meaning it couldn't possibly have been as intense as Sandy was.

Hurricane Sandy, on the other hand, was the largest Atlantic hurricane on record; the most powerful storm ever to strike the New Jersey coast; the second costliest U.S. storm ever; the second deadliest U.S. storm in 40 years, and on and on and on. So comparing it to other previous storms is sort of pointless and disingenuous. The fact is, there hasn't been a storm so large or intense to affect the NYC area so late in the year for at least 400 years--and possibly much longer than that.

I wonder why that is...
443. atris
Quoting Neapolitan:
Looking at that list, I count 4 pre-August storms, 14 August storms, 21 September storms, 9 storms that occurred in the first half of October, and just four that took place in the second half of October.

Of those latter four, NYC was affected by:

--The Great Storm of 1693, which made landfall in Virginia;
--The rains and wind of a minimal tropical storm that had been over land since making landfall in North Carolina (1872);
--The rains of another that made landfall in Virginia (1878);
--The "light rains" from Isbell (1964) as it passed offshore to the east.

Assuming the limited anecdotal evidence is correct, then, the only one of those four that could possibly compare to Sandy in terms of ferocity was "The Great Storm of 1693", which few were around to witness or document. But even then, the storm didn't make landfall from the east, but came up from the southwest, meaning it couldn't possibly have been as intense as Sandy was.

Hurricane Sandy, on the other hand, was the largest Atlantic hurricane on record; the most powerful storm ever to strike the New Jersey coast; the second costliest U.S. storm ever; the second deadliest U.S. storm in 40 years, and on and on and on. So comparing it to other previous storms is sort of pointless and disingenuous. The fact is, there hasn't been a storm so large or intense to affect the NYC area so late in the year for at least 400 years--and possibly much longer than that.

I wonder why that is...



Maybe it had to do with the large front that attracted her on shore instead of going out to sea...
Quoting Neapolitan:
Looking at that list, I count 4 pre-August storms, 14 August storms, 21 September storms, 9 storms that occurred in the first half of October, and just four that took place in the second half of October.

Of those latter four, NYC was affected by:

--The Great Storm of 1693, which made landfall in Virginia;
--The rains and wind of a minimal tropical storm that had been over land since making landfall in North Carolina (1872);
--The rains of another that made landfall in Virginia (1878);
--The "light rains" from Isbell (1964) as it passed offshore to the east.

Assuming the limited anecdotal evidence is correct, then, the only one of those four that could possibly compare to Sandy in terms of ferocity was "The Great Storm of 1693", which few were around to witness or document. But even then, the storm didn't make landfall from the east, but came up from the southwest, meaning it couldn't possibly have been as intense as Sandy was.

Hurricane Sandy, on the other hand, was the largest Atlantic hurricane on record; the most powerful storm ever to strike the New Jersey coast; the second costliest U.S. storm ever; the second deadliest U.S. storm in 40 years, and on and on and on. So comparing it to other previous storms is sort of pointless and disingenuous. The fact is, there hasn't been a storm so large or intense to affect the NYC area so late in the year for at least 400 years--and possibly much longer than that.

I wonder why that is...


again, Im confused by your statement..are you hinting that Sandy is a result of climate change?..because the next day after Sandy made landfall, you said in Dr. Masters blog that Sandy was due to climate change and we were all doomed..yada yada..and then later on that afternoon you stated it was too early to call Sandy as a result of climate change and for those alarmists who were stating so were being false..(of course, not in your exact words)..which is it?
People have compared Sandy to hurricanes like Ike,and Katrina.Which were both deadly and large systems oh and costly.So to compare Sandy to other hurricanes isn't that pointless.She's not a god of the hurricanes or whatever.She's not non comaprable.It's just that I feel as though Sandy affected a part of the coast line that isn't really that prepared for hurricanes and don't have the right building codes.Sandy was like the Ike(I really don't compare storms to Katrina) east coast style.Also that coast is shaped funny so of course your going to have higher storm surge values.Even for week storms like Sandy.Sandy's size(sound familiar to Ike) also contribute to higher storm surge values along with what time of the year it was for the tides to be at their highest.

And BTW..I'm f___ing awesome.
446. beell
Quoting Neapolitan:
.

I wonder why that is...


Proof by verbosity?
Quoting washingtonian115:
People have compared Sandy to hurricanes like Ike,and Katrina.Which were both deadly and large systems oh and costly.So to compare Sandy to other hurricanes isn't that pointless.She's not a god of the hurricanes or whatever.She's not non comaprable.It's just that I eel as though Sandy affected a part of the coast line that isn't really that prepared for hurricanes and don't have the right building codes.Sandy was like the Ike(I really don't compare storms to Katrina) east coast style.Also that coast is shaped funny so of course your going to have higher storm surge values.Even for week storms like Sandy.Sandy's size(sound familiar to Ike) also contribute to higher storm surge values along with what time of the year it was for the tides to be at their highest.


now Wash..you only supposed to look at the ocean heat..all that other stuff you said is meaningless in hurricanes..
Quoting ncstorm:


now Wash..you only supposed to look at the ocean heat..all that other stuff you said is meaningless in hurricanes..
Lol.Hey stating the facts here.Since people complain about how other's don't back up what they say I'm backing it up with facts!.All the ingrediants came together for a disaster to happen.They unfortunately came together at the wrong place/time to create this situation in which we see in front of us.
Quoting ncstorm:


Wait..I thought climate change was due to fossil fuels and fossil fuels have been used for how long? Im confuse?

Sandy just happened and to contribute Sandy to "climate change or GW" is premature, People on this blog love to use "facts" as an argument..it would take comprehensive studies to determine these "facts"..we wouldnt want to distort the agenda by using Sandy as a case when it hasn't even been proven yet...unless someone has a time machine and has already jetted into the future and conducted those studies and brought them back to present day, I will say until then, NY and NJ and any other state in the NE was just extremely unlucky in the set up of the weather pattern..
Yep, it's just "luck". Major heatwaves, increasingly profound droughts, intense storms, vanishing sea ice, acidifying oceans, monster tornado outbreaks, rising sea levels, desertification, disappearing glaciers, species migrations and extinctions--it's all just fortune. Coincidence. A giant roll of the climate die.

Yeah, that's probably it... ;-\
Quoting ncstorm:


again, Im confused by your statement..are you hinting that Sandy is a result of climate change?..because the next day after Sandy made landfall, you said in Dr. Masters blog that Sandy was due to climate change and we were all doomed..yada yada..and then later on that afternoon you stated it was too early to call Sandy as a result of climate change and for those alarmists who were stating so were being false..(of course, not in your exact words)..which is it?
We've been over this several times, haven't we?

I have stated--and will continue to say--that no one can say, "Sandy was caused by global warming." But by the same token, no one can say, "Sandy was not made worse by global warming." The steroids analogy used by some climatologists (which is so easy to understand, I'm not sure how people are still confused): Mark McGwire, who has admitted to using steroids, hit 70 home runs in 1998 (a record at that time). No person can look at any one of those 70 home runs and say, "Yes, that one was definitely caused by steroids." But that fact doesn't mean none of those home runs were made possible by McGwire's use of steroids. The thing is, McGwire had a great swing and a good eye, so he may very well have hit a large number of homers that year had he not been juiced--but he almost certainly wouldn't have hit so many, and the ones he hit almost certainly wouldn't have gone so far.
I thought we were suppose to have more Katrina's from 2005 onward thanks to limate change or GW what ever the hell..

Now as I've said before I do think the planet is warming but with some of the people having alarmist post for every event that happens is going to be like crying wolf eventually.I even saw a article saying GW may cause more volcano eruptions in the future.It was a few years ago so sorry if I forget what website it was.

But my point I'm trying to make is I don't think every flood that happens..every hurricane that forms..and every fire is apart of GW/climate change.Some of them have been going on for millions of years and are natural phenomenons.

Well I'm done with the GW/climate change post and don't bother replying and leaving nasty comments.
Quoting ncstorm:


500,000 people are still without power and gas is being rationed out..dire situation up there..those cities outside NY are falling off the radar unfortunately..
no i dont think they are forgotten, its a regional thing, if you read the newspapers from up there you will see all the stories etc..life does go on im afraid and people move on, we all know what happened up there, i have people in my family suffering up there myself and im guessing so do other posters here, so no one is forgetting them but again..its a regional thing, if tampa got hit by sandy..in 2 weeks new york would be talking about something else other than tampa..i scanned the news up there earlier this morning, lots of pics and stories up there still..people are suffering, many thousands and all we can do is watch and read and donate to charities etc..and life elsewhere..goes on..when wilma hit florida..how many days did other regions newspapers keep on reporting about it?..not many..its just the way it is im afraid..
well its supposed to warm up some today..maybe 75 here, waiting for the winds to change direction............

We've been over this several times, haven't we?

I have stated--and will continue to say--that no one can say, "Sandy was caused by global warming." But by the same token, no one can say, "Sandy was not made worse by global warming." The steroids analogy used by some climatologists (which is so easy to understand, I'm not sure how people are still confused): Mark McGwire, who has admitted to using steroids, hit 70 home runs in 1998 (a record at that time). No person can look at any one of those 70 home runs and say, "Yes, that one was definitely caused by steroids." But that fact doesn't mean none of those home runs were made possible by McGwire's use of steroids. The thing is, McGwire had a great swing and a good eye, so he may very well have hit a large number of homers that year had he not been juiced--but he almost certainly wouldn't have hit so many, and the ones he hit almost certainly wouldn't have gone so far.


steroid analogy? You really need to stay off JB's twitter..
Quoting Neapolitan:
Looking at that list, I count 4 pre-August storms, 14 August storms, 21 September storms, 9 storms that occurred in the first half of October, and just four that took place in the second half of October.

Of those latter four, NYC was affected by:

--The Great Storm of 1693, which made landfall in Virginia;
--The rains and wind of a minimal tropical storm that had been over land since making landfall in North Carolina (1872);
--The rains of another that made landfall in Virginia (1878);
--The "light rains" from Isbell (1964) as it passed offshore to the east.

Assuming the limited anecdotal evidence is correct, then, the only one of those four that could possibly compare to Sandy in terms of ferocity was "The Great Storm of 1693", which few were around to witness or document. But even then, the storm didn't make landfall from the east, but came up from the southwest, meaning it couldn't possibly have been as intense as Sandy was.

Hurricane Sandy, on the other hand, was the largest Atlantic hurricane on record; the most powerful storm ever to strike the New Jersey coast; the second costliest U.S. storm ever; the second deadliest U.S. storm in 40 years, and on and on and on. So comparing it to other previous storms is sort of pointless and disingenuous. The fact is, there hasn't been a storm so large or intense to affect the NYC area so late in the year for at least 400 years--and possibly much longer than that.

I wonder why that is...


You can't use one system to argue that its climate change....i mean you just bashed using anecdotal evidence a few minutes ago..
Second deadliest etc is the fault of population growth and expansion into dangerous areas, these same areas were vulnerable to a storm like this for hundreds of years and we never got lucky (or unlucky) enough for the timing to line up. This is something that easily couldve happened before and just never did in the short history we have...and for a while it probably wont happen again. I mean heck if this storm surge had peaked at low tide, it passes into history as one of the small billion dollar disasters, gone and forgotten after the much more minor coastline surge damage is repaired.
new GFS at 78 hours......................
Quoting biff4ugo:
Storm diameter is 1,040 miles or a circular area of 0.849 million miles... or 23.668 trillion square feet.

Just estimating one gallon per surface square foot, at an increased temperature of 0.3 F due to global warming of ocean temperatures (tropical Atlantic increase over 60 year average) would be the equivalent of 7.1 trillion gallons up 1 degree... is 7.1 trillion BTUs of additional thermal energy in the top few inches of the ocean under hurricane Sandy. or 2.79 Billion extra horse power.
How is my math?

Do you think 2.79 billion horse power pushing wind or waves or rain could cause additional damage? That isn't even the top foot of ocean under Sandy.

So we can't talk about an individual storm, but we can talk about ocean temperature change, and available additional energy. And storm size can be talked about.
hummm.


edit>7.1 trillion btu's in perspective is 1,789 kton or a 10th of an atomic bomb's worth of additional energy in the top few inches of the ocean.
Good post. It shows the shear power of ocean heat be transferred into the atmospheric monstahs...:)
LOL, Neo. You do see in black and white, don't you? And I'm not talking about the color of anyone's Prius.

I popped in to remind you and your pals Esther and Karen that there are some who recognize the overall trend toward global warming has been happening for at least 15,000 years now - in North America anyway. In other words, we/they are not "deniers." At the same time, you will not convince us/them Sandy was worsened by "AGW" during this episode of As the Earth Turns. No reason to think so.

Baseball and steroids, bad analogy. You're talking humans. I'm talking natural processes.

(Add: response to 449. Neapolitan 3:38 PM GMT on November 09, 2012)
I have a question with TWC and naming winter storms. Does anyone know how many names we can expect in a year. I have no clue if its 10 or 30. Thx
Quoting atris:



Quoting Neapolitan:
Looking at that list, I count 4 pre-August storms, 14 August storms, 21 September storms, 9 storms that occurred in the first half of October, and just four that took place in the second half of October.

Of those latter four, NYC was affected by:

--The Great Storm of 1693, which made landfall in Virginia;
--The rains and wind of a minimal tropical storm that had been over land since making landfall in North Carolina (1872);
--The rains of another that made landfall in Virginia (1878);
--The "light rains" from Isbell (1964) as it passed offshore to the east.

Assuming the limited anecdotal evidence is correct, then, the only one of those four that could possibly compare to Sandy in terms of ferocity was "The Great Storm of 1693", which few were around to witness or document. But even then, the storm didn't make landfall from the east, but came up from the southwest, meaning it couldn't possibly have been as intense as Sandy was.

Hurricane Sandy, on the other hand, was the largest Atlantic hurricane on record; the most powerful storm ever to strike the New Jersey coast; the second costliest U.S. storm ever; the second deadliest U.S. storm in 40 years, and on and on and on. So comparing it to other previous storms is sort of pointless and disingenuous. The fact is, there hasn't been a storm so large or intense to affect the NYC area so late in the year for at least 400 years--and possibly much longer than that.

I wonder why that is...
++++++++
Maybe it had to do with the large front that attracted her on shore instead of going out to sea...


In my opinion, the blocking high pressure over Greenland was most anomalous element of this equation, and least talked about. Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is a variation of the Arctic Dipole, which just came into existence over the last few years. We are seeing increasingly anomalous climatic events over the Arctic and they are directly related to the melting ice and warming Arctic Ocean.

This is why the odds are increasing that storms like Sandy, which take an odd left turn instead of heading east out to sea, could become more common.
Quoting Neapolitan:
I wonder why that is...


I'm no expert, but could this have something to do with it?





Grew up on the Mississippi Gulf Coast (veteran of Fredrick and Elena) now living in New Jersey. Thought I had left those storms behind me. I made it through fine, just dealing with inconsistent power as many others are as well. Dad, who is still living down on the Coast (you can add Betsy, Camile, Katrina among other lesser storms to his list), called me up on the Saturday before the storm to go over the hurricane checklist with me. But I had gotten the generator and the bottle water earlier in the week when the first models were coming out.

The last thing we need is yet another storm. Lots of people without power and heat still and it's been cold. That's one thing people generally don't deal with during the aftermath of a hurricane. It's the cold that's really affecting people. Local township is giving out wood collected from cleaning all the fallen trees to people who don't have any heat. Everyone is asking for jackets and winter coats. Thankfully temperatures will be warming up this weekend and into early next week. That should help.
Quoting TomballTXPride:


I'm no expert, but could this have something to do with it?





yes, great graphs here
Quoting Vindibunny:
Grew up on the Mississippi Gulf Coast (veteran of Fredrick and Elena) now living in New Jersey. Thought I had left those storms behind me. I made it through fine, just dealing with inconsistent power as many others are as well. Dad, who is still living down on the Coast (you can add Betsy, Camile, Katrina among other lesser storms to his list), called me up on the Saturday before the storm to go over the hurricane checklist with me. But I had gotten the generator and the bottle water earlier in the week when the first models were coming out.

The last thing we need is yet another storm. Lots of people without power and heat still and it's been cold. That's one thing people generally don't deal with during the aftermath of a hurricane. It's the cold that's really affecting people. Local township is giving out wood collected from cleaning all the fallen trees to people who don't have any heat. Everyone is asking for jackets and winter coats. Thankfully temperatures will be warming up this weekend and into early next week. That should help.
good luck up there..stay safe ok
Fat Penguin,
Yes, it was a critical element that would not have been critical without a tropical cyclone in the picture. I can't help wondering how many times this type of blocking feature has happened. Could be another 200 years before another "Sandy" occurs.
GFS at 111 hours
Quoting Barefootontherocks:
Fat Penguin,
Yes, it was a critical element that would not have been critical without a tropical cyclone in the picture. I can't help wondering how many times this type of blocking feature has happened. Could be another 200 years before another "Sandy" occurs.
I hope your right, but 200 years is far fetched in my eyes. The region gets its share of storms, and I would not be surprised if something like Sandy struck them again next year with the worlds weather changing the way it is.
water temps going down..............
JeffMasters has created a new entry.
Quoting hydrus:
I hope your right, but 200 years is far fetched in my eyes. The region gets its share of storms, and I would not be surprised if something like Sandy struck them again next year with the worlds weather changing the way it is.
Thanks for the response.

Saw roughly 400 years ago for historical comparison here and at weatherhistorian's blog. I picked 200 as a compromise. I can't help observing that we humans, in the US and possibly elsewhere, are cycling through that part of the circle where "middle of the road" seems a lost art.
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


You can't use one system to argue that its climate change....i mean you just bashed using anecdotal evidence a few minutes ago..
Second deadliest etc is the fault of population growth and expansion into dangerous areas, these same areas were vulnerable to a storm like this for hundreds of years and we never got lucky (or unlucky) enough for the timing to line up. This is something that easily couldve happened before and just never did in the short history we have...and for a while it probably wont happen again. I mean heck if this storm surge had peaked at low tide, it passes into history as one of the small billion dollar disasters, gone and forgotten after the much more minor coastline surge damage is repaired.
No, "...you can't use one system to argue that its climate change." What you can use is the number of extreme weather events that are increasing in both severity and frequency. And if you choose to ignore that, well, then, you are willfully ignorant. No?
Quoting Barefootontherocks:
LOL, Neo. You do see in black and white, don't you? And I'm not talking about the color of anyone's Prius.

I popped in to remind you and your pals Esther and Karen that there are some who recognize the overall trend toward global warming has been happening for at least 15,000 years now - in North America anyway. In other words, we/they are not "deniers." At the same time, you will not convince us/them Sandy was worsened by "AGW" during this episode of As the Earth Turns. No reason to think so.

Baseball and steroids, bad analogy. You're talking humans. I'm talking natural processes.

(Add: response to 449. Neapolitan 3:38 PM GMT on November 09, 2012)
Sorry, BFOTR; I can't get much simpler than that analogy. One of the hallmarks of climate science--or any other type of--denialism is claiming that complex explanations are too detailed, while simple ones are too "black and white". IOW, your preconceptions will always prevent you from seeing the truth. But that's okay; science knows what's going on, even if you choose to ignore it. ;-)