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Top Ten 2015 Atlantic Hurricane Season Events; Paris Climate Talks Ramp Up

By: Jeff Masters and Bob Henson 3:50 PM GMT on December 01, 2015

The 2015 Atlantic hurricane season is officially over, and it will go into the books as the most memorable hurricane season to occur during a strong El Niño event. Strong El Niño events typically reduce Atlantic hurricane activity by increasing wind shear over the tropical Atlantic, and this year's El Niño conditions did indeed create unusually high levels of wind shear over the Caribbean, making it difficult for tropical systems to organize and strengthen in those waters. According to Colorado State's Dr. Phil Klotzbach, the 200-850-mb vertical wind shear in the Caribbean (10-20°N, 90-60°W) averaged from June through October was the highest since at least 1979 (28.5 knots.) However, this high wind shear did not extend as far east as usual, allowing several tropical storms to form near the coast of Africa over waters that were near-record warm. Near record-warm to record-warm ocean temperatures were also over more northern reaches of the Atlantic, and helped spur the formation of Hurricane Joaquin and Hurricane Kate. As a result, the 2015 season was able to tally numbers that were not that far below average--11 named storms, 4 hurricanes, and 2 intense Category 3 or stronger hurricanes. The 1981-2010 average numbers were 11.5 named storms, 6.1 hurricanes, and 2.6 major hurricanes. Accumulated Cyclone Energy (ACE) is a measure of the total destructive power of a hurricane season, based on the number of days strong winds are observed. ACE for an individual storm is computed by squaring the maximum sustained winds of the storm at each 6-hourly advisory, and summing up over the entire lifetime of the storm. The ACE for the 2015 Atlantic hurricane season was about 60% of average, reflecting the relative lack of hurricanes. Hurricane Joaquin accounted for 46% of the season's ACE.


Figure 1. Preliminary paths of all the named Atlantic storms of 2015, except for Hurricane Kate, which has not yet been added. Image credit: NOAA/NHC.


Figure 2. Vertical wind shear across the Caribbean averaged from June through October for each of the years 1979 through 2015. Wind shear in 2015 was the strongest on record. Image credit: Phil Klotzbach's and Bill Gray's November 30 season summary (CSU.)

Top ten notable events of the 2015 Atlantic hurricane season
Here's my top-ten list of events of the 2015 Atlantic hurricane season--some of them taken from Colorado State's Dr. Phil Klotzbach's November 30 summary:

1) Hurricane Joaquin was the strongest Atlantic hurricane since 2007, topping out just below Category 5 strength on October 3 with 155 mph winds. Joaquin was the second deadliest and second most damaging Atlantic named storm of 2015, causing $100 million in damage in the Central Bahamas, where it lingered for several days. Joaquin's death toll was 35, with 33 of these deaths occurring from the sinking of the ill-fated cargo ship El Faro. Although Joaquin tracked far to the east of the United States, a non-tropical low over the Southeast tapped into the hurricane's moisture, causing record-shattering rains and flooding across North and South Carolina. Several areas of South Carolina saw accumulations exceeding the threshold for a 1-in-1,000-year event. The subsequent floods inundated large areas of the state, killing 19 people and causing over $2 billion in damage.


Figure 3. Hurricane Joaquin as seen by the GOES-East satellite at 7:45 am EDT October 1, 2015. At the time, Joaquin was an intensifying Category 2 storm with 110 mph winds. The last position of the cargo ship El Faro, in the northwestern eyewall of Joaquin, is shown. Image credit: United States Navy and NOAA.

2) Tropical Storm Erika was the deadliest and most expensive Atlantic storm of 2015. Erika unleashed a catastrophic deluge on August 27 that brought extreme flooding to the Caribbean island of Dominica (population 72,000), causing its most expensive disaster in history. The storm did $612.7 million in damage in East Caribbean dollars to roads and bridges, $39.5 million in damage to the airport, and an additional $12 million in clean up costs (thanks go to David C. Adams of Thomson Reuters for this info.) Erika's total preliminary price tag of $275 million U.S. dollars is not far from Dominica's annual GDP of $500 million. The storm will likely set the island back 20 years in development, Prime Minister Skerrit said. According to EM-DAT, the international disaster database, Dominica's previous most expensive disaster was the $175 million in damage from Hurricane Marilyn of 1995. Erika's death toll of 36 makes it the 3rd deadliest disaster in Dominica's history, behind the 40 killed in 1979's Hurricane David and the 2,000 people killed in Dominica by The Dominican Republic Hurricane of 1930.


Video 1. Floodwaters rage through a street on Dominica island in the Caribbean on Thursday, August 27, 2015, after Tropical Storm Erika dumped 12+" of rain on the island.

3) Hurricane Fred. For the first time since 1892, a full-fledged hurricane pounded the Cape Verde islands, when Hurricane Fred intensified to a Category 1 storm with 85 mph winds as it passed through the islands on August 31. Fortunately, Fred missed making a direct hit on any of the islands, and damage was less than $2 million. However, Fred brought violent seas to the West African coast, damaging or destroying numerous fishing villages in Senegal. Between the coasts of West Africa and Cape Verde, maritime incidents related to Fred resulted in 9 deaths (Wikipedia.) Fred became a hurricane at 22.5°W longitude, the easternmost formation location in the tropical Atlantic for any hurricane in the historical record. The previous record was held by Hurricane Three of 1900, which became a hurricane at 23°W, south of the Cape Verde islands.


Figure 4. MODIS image of Hurricane Fred from NASA's Terra satellite taken at approximately 11:15 am EDT Monday August 31, 2015. At the time, Fred was at peak strength with top sustained winds of 85 mph. Image credit: NASA.

4) No major hurricanes made US landfall in 2015. The last major hurricane to make US landfall was Wilma (2005), so the US has now gone ten years without a major hurricane landfall. In records going back to 1851, the US has never had a ten-year period without a major hurricane landfall, eclipsing the previous record of eight years set from 1861-1868.

5) Florida went without a hurricane impact for the 10th consecutive year. This is the longest consecutive year period on record that Florida has not had a landfall since records began in 1851. The longest previous record was five years, set from 1980- 1984.

6) Ocean temperatures in the Caribbean were the warmest on record in October, yet no storms formed in the Caribbean and only one (Erika) tracked into the Caribbean. This is because June-October-averaged 200-850-mb vertical wind shear in the Caribbean (10-20°N, 90-60°W) was 28.5 knots--the strongest on record (since 1979).

7) Hurricane Danny. Despite strong El Niño conditions developing in the Eastern Pacific, a major hurricane managed to form in the Main Development Region (MDR) of the tropical Atlantic, between the coast of Africa and the Caribbean. Hurricane Danny only lasted six hours as a major hurricane, and high wind shear and dry air destroyed the storm just as it arrived in the Lesser Antilles Islands.


Figure 5. Hurricane Danny as viewed from the International Space Station and tweeted on Thursday morning, August 20, by astronaut Scott Kelly. At the time, Danny was an intensifying Category 1 hurricane with 80 mph winds. Image credit: NASA.

8) Only four hurricanes formed in 2015. This brings the combined 2013-2015 total to 12 hurricanes. This is the lowest three-year total since 1992-1994 (11 hurricanes).

9) Two major hurricanes formed in 2015. This brings the combined 2013- 2015 total to 4. No three-year average has been lower since 1992-1994 (2 major hurricanes).

10) Hurricane Kate became the Atlantic’s most intense tropical cyclone on record for November during the five years since 1950 with strong El Niño conditions present in October-December: 2015, 1997, 1982, 1972, and 1965. Only one other named system was observed during those Novembers: 1972’s Subtropical Storm Delta.


Video 1. WU member Brian Osborne created this impressive 18-minute long video of over 10,000 GOES-East images showing the evolution of the 2015 Atlantic hurricane season. Particularly interesting is the portion about 12 minutes in, when we see Hurricane Joaquin form, plow into the Central Bahamas, then turn a firehose of moisture into South Carolina that gets wrapped around an upper-level low pressure system.

Day 1 of the Paris climate summit: Leaders weigh in
More than a week of tough negotiations lies ahead at the UN Climate Conference (COP21), but Monday--the opening day--was a time for reflection and expression of common purpose. More than 150 heads of state were on hand, and dozens of them gave speeches, acknowledging the gravity of human-produced climate change and the daunting task of turning it around. These themes were delivered in many flavors. Canada’s new prime minister, Justin Trudeau, stayed upbeat while alluding to his nation’s having bowed out of the Kyoto Protocol: “Canada is back, my friends. Canada is back, and here to help.” France’s president, Francois Hollande, was understandably grave: “...never have the stakes been so high because this is about the future of the planet, the future of life. And yet two weeks ago, here in Paris itself, a group of fanatics was sowing the seeds of death in the streets.” British Prime Minister David Cameron brought the issue to a familial scale--“Let’s just imagine for a moment what we would have to say to our grandchildren if we failed”--while the prime minister of Slovenia, Miro Cerar, harked back to a quote by the late US president Dwight Eisenhower: “As we peer into society’s future, we--you and I, and our government--must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow.”

As in past summits, some of the most poignant remarks came from the leaders of island nations threatened soonest by rising sea levels and storm surge. Marshall Islands president Christopher Loeak put it this way: “The climate we have known over many centuries has in a matter of three short decades, changed dramatically, before our very eyes. We are already limping from climate disaster to climate disaster and we know that there is worse to come. For us, COP21 must be a turning point in history. And one that gives us hope.” Many of the smaller island states are maintaining their longtime push to keep global warming at no more than 1.5°C above preindustrial levels--perhaps a quixotic goal at this point, given the record global warmth of 2014 and 2015 and the possibility that 2016 will be warmer still. On the brighter side, India announced on Monday that it will spearhead a new global alliance of 120 nations aimed at vastly expanding the reach of solar power to developing towns and cities across the tropics. The new alliance will serve as a framework through which agencies and industry can take advantage of economies of scale in bringing solar power to underserved areas. Although restricting fossil fuels is sometimes viewed as a roadblock to economic development for the world’s poorest residents, it’s quite possible that initiatives like these could be just the opposite--a way to leapfrog over current logistical barriers and move directly toward clean, accessible power.

See our Monday post for more on the Paris summit, including links to frequently updated news sources. Wunderground's climate change blogger, Dr. Ricky Rood, has an interesting new Tuesday afternoon post on the Paris climate summit called All Fracked Up.

Our next post will be Wednesday or Thursday.

Jeff Masters (tropical], Bob Henson [Paris summit]


Figure 6. The Eiffel Tower was lit up in green on November 30 during the first day of the United Nations climate conference in Paris. Image credit: Stephane de Sakutin/AFP/Getty Images.

Hurricane Climate Change Politics Climate Change

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Quoting 482. flsky:


Any one of the violent crazies who are able to buy firearms.


Lools like international terrorism
House votes to reject Obama climate change regulations

Deirdre Walsh
By Deirdre Walsh, CNN Senior Congressional Producer
Updated 8:58 PM ET, Tue December 1, 2015 | Video Source: CNN



Washington (CNN)Hours after President Barack Obama pushed for an international agreement to combat climate change, the GOP-led House of Representatives voted to block that effort and demonstrate the President didn't have support in his own country.

The House passed a pair of resolutions, largely along party lines, that would prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from implementing rules the administration released earlier this year to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

Obama ends Paris climate visit with spotlight on legacy

Both measures, already approved by the Senate in October, now go to the White House, which has already vowed to veto them. Democrats maintain Republicans don't have the vote to override any veto so they denounced the debate as a waste of time.

The resolutions cited Congress' power under the "Congressional Review Act" to weigh in on new regulations. The bills would prohibit EPA from enforcing limits on electric utilities and coal plants. Republicans on the floor said they deliberately held the votes the same day as the president's remarks at an international climate change conference in Paris to show the president faced opposition back home.
Quoting 498. wartsttocs:



South-Central New Hampshire. It seemed like the center for weather punishment last winter.
I,ll say..Some of the worse winter weather I have seen..We use to deliver coal to Merrimack Station during the 80,s..Nice up there.
Quoting 500. StormTrackerScott:

This was likely a terrorist attack on US soil per FBI


That would be a game changer. I think, if that's the case, we all knew this was coming. Won't be the last. The drumbeat for a larger ground force in Iraq in Syria will grow louder if that verifies. What a bizarre target though. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Quoting 503. akailm:




No worries akailm, easy mistake to make, thank you.
Right now, I would suspect domestic terrorism. But, let's see what the facts bear out.
Quoting 505. DeepSeaRising:



That would be a game changer. I think, if that's the case, we all knew this was coming. Won't be the last. The drumbeat for a larger ground force in Iraq in Syria will grow louder if that verifies. What a bizarre target though. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
And the international retaliation against ISIS will provoke more such attacks in counter-retaliation -- the more you poke the hornet's nest the angrier they get, and they are almost impossible to eradicate when they are dispersed as they now are. "Interesting" times ahead.
Quoting 507. GeoffreyWPB:

Right now, I would suspect domestic terrorism. But, let's see what the facts bear out.


FBI saying its possibly terrorism. Its all over the news
Quoting 497. BayFog:


They do have a position, but you can't know it with precision if you measure their motion. And vice versa. At least the last time I checked. Position or momentum, but never both.
They are never still...not even at absolute zero ...never...so i,m told..
Quoting 512. StormTrackerScott:



Get a grip and turn on the TV


Jeff, let the investigation take place. Please my friend, don't throw out accusations before the facts are known.
Quoting 506. DeepSeaRising:



Mods please remove this, for I said no such thing in regards to the end of this.
sorry for the quote in error
Quoting 513. GeoffreyWPB:

Jeff, let the investigation take place. Please my friend, don't throw out accusations before the facts are known.
I thought his name is Scott.
515...Who cares? I've known him for a long time. Sometimes I address him in one of his former names.
Quoting 507. GeoffreyWPB:

Right now, I would suspect domestic terrorism. But, let's see what the facts bear out.
I agree. But we will have to get a better sense of who the victims are and why they were victimized.
Hey, I was one step closer this time 😜
Quoting 483. PedleyCA:

You need to clear the box before you paste your link into it.... And test it first....

There Have Been More Mass Shootings This Year Than There Have Been Days.
Quoting 510. StormTrackerScott:



FBI saying its possibly terrorism. Its all over the news
Still seems more likely to be domestic so far. Either way, sure is drawing US attention away from political postures re Global warming cop ....
"One of his former names"

*shrug*
Quoting 517. BahaHurican:

I agree. But we will have to get a better sense of who the victims are and why they were victimized.


Authorities are saying per CNN that this was a cell of individuals who they no and recognized the name of one of the shooters which was Mohammad something. My thing if you no there is a terror cell there then get them out of the US. I mean really people come on.

Quoting 519. BahaHurican:

Still seems more likely to be domestic so far. Either way, sure is drawing US attention away from political postures re Global warming cop ....


Your wrong not according to the head of the FBI
Quoting 515. BaltimoreBrian:

I thought his name is Scott.


I was a lurker for years and I'm pretty sure it's Jeff. Doesn't really matter anyway.
Quoting 522. StormTrackerScott:



Your wrong not according to the head of the FBI


Did you see the press conference? He said that there were some signals of terrorism but he said he would not go there until the facts are in.
Almost time for Coast to Coast AM and George Noory, who doesn't believe in climate change, but does believe in space aliens living on earth. Go figure.
Quoting 488. ACSeattle:


Not exactly. The "position" of electrons is governed by the Schrodinger wave equation, which is a probability distribution. The planets, not so much.


Like this:

The First Image Ever of a Hydrogen Atom's Orbital Structure



And some hydrogen wave functions





Quoting 529. Abacosurf:




Stormy night in the Keys. Rain chances for us in Tampa have just about gone away. Ugh!
Quoting 524. Bucsboltsfan:



Did you see the press conference? He said that there were some signals of terrorism but he said he would not go there until the facts are in.
According to the LA Times, one person got into a beef with someone else at a party that was apparently being held at the center. He went back home, got a gun and a friend, went back and started to shoot the place up. People at the party knew the male shooter and ratted him out. The police were at his house in Redlands to serve a search warrant when the black SUV identified by witnesses took off, leading to a chase and shootout, with two suspects dead. It sounds like a third person that was held at the scene may have been at the wrong place at the wrong time. Other than the two dead suspects, nothing else is officially confirmed right now. I guess it depends on how you classify terrorist attacks, but this doesn't sound like an ISIS inspired attack.
Quoting 497. BayFog:


They do have a position, but you can't know it with precision if you measure their motion. And vice versa. At least the last time I checked. Position or momentum, but never both.

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
Reminds me that I once visited Neils Bohr in Copenhagen.
Back to lurking.
Quoting 523. Bucsboltsfan:



I was a lurker for years and I'm pretty sure it's Jeff. Doesn't really matter anyway.
Some people here seem to have a very complicated past. I've just been me for the past eleven years. Nothing very exciting at all, I'm afraid.
Quoting 535. sar2401:
Some people here seem to have a very complicated past. I've just been me for the past eleven years. Nothing very exciting at all, I'm afraid.
Yep. You've lurked a very long time.
Quoting 535. sar2401:

Some people here seem to have a very complicated past. I've just been me for the past eleven years. Nothing very exciting at all, I'm afraid.


Yes, sar. Your past is very mundane. :)
Quoting 535. sar2401:

Some people here seem to have a very complicated past. I've just been me for the past eleven years. Nothing very exciting at all, I'm afraid.


Not to us Sar, you may not be the most interesting man in the world, but certainly the most experienced. You know a lot about a lot. Sure your not as old as Grothar?
Quoting 535. sar2401:

Some people here seem to have a very complicated past. I've just been me for the past eleven years. Nothing very exciting at all, I'm afraid.


I'm a Tampa sports fan who happens to be facinated with weather. How exciting:( I would jump on here for years when a storm would threaten Florida. I can't remember his name but loved his posts - got run out of here and there was weird talks of feet. The blog was really different then.
Quoting 538. DeepSeaRising:



Not to us Sar, you may not be the most interesting man in the world, but certainly the most experienced. You know a lot about a lot. Sure your not as old as Grothar?


Also, he's either incredibly smart or is a whiz at Google search. Either way he provides a wealth of information to the blog.
UPDATE: 1 identified as Middle Eastern.
BigDukeNOLA7 to keeperofthegate....any active mods.

Have serious B-roll video from the street Level as the suspects are chased and cornered in their SUV and neutralized, Cursing,Graphic, and intense.

request permission to LINK only.
Quoting 533. sar2401:

According to the LA Times, one person got into a beef with someone else at a party that was apparently being held at the center. He went back home, got a gun and a friend, went back and started to shoot the place up. People at the party knew the male shooter and ratted him out. The police were at his house in Redlands to serve a search warrant when the black SUV identified by witnesses took off, leading to a chase and shootout, with two suspects dead. It sounds like a third person that was held at the scene may have been at the wrong place at the wrong time. Other than the two dead suspects, nothing else is officially confirmed right now. I guess it depends on how you classify terrorist attacks, but this doesn't sound like an ISIS inspired attack.


Think there's more. It wasn't spontaneous. The type of guns, the gear they wore, the bombs. More to come.
Quoting 541. StormTrackerScott:

UPDATE: 1 identified as Middle Eastern.


Born here or there? Born here with a politico motive is domestic terrorism. Born there with a political motive is international terrorism. Not politically motivated? Murder. Do not fan the flames of us vs. them. It never works out.
Quoting 544. CraigsIsland:



Born here or there? Born here with a politico motive is domestic terrorism. Born there with a political motive is international terrorism. Not politically motivated? Murder. Do not fan the flames of us vs. them. It never works out.


Seems more and more this was a terrorist attack according to authorities
Quoting 545. Patrap:

Caution, graphic B-roll San Bernardino


Serious gun fight.
Just got in from work and started watching. Have they said if anyone at party was armed?
Cover of tomorrow's New York Daily News on comment #1844 of my blog. It seemed...injudicious...to post it here directly.
Quoting 543. Bucsboltsfan:



Think there's more. It wasn't spontaneous. The type of guns, the gear they wore, the bombs. More to come.
From what I've read, there were no confirmed explosive devices. Long guns are often misidentified by witnesses as everything from a .22 to a BAR. It's not unusual for people who use guns illegally to wear black a lot of the time - kind of a uniform. People under great stress make really terrible witnesses, and it's compounded when they are in a crowd, and talk to other witnesses before the are officially interviewed. Having been involved in similar incidents, a lot of the information that gets to the public is often both wrong and inflammatory. We'll see what this turns out to be, but I really doubt this is a planned terrorist attack.
Quoting 522. StormTrackerScott:



Your wrong not according to the head of the FBI
No skin off my nose if I am. I'm basing my supposition on public reports … I'd expect the FBI chief to have better info.
I certainly won't be speculating further until I have more data.

YMMV....
Quoting 548. Kenfa03:

Just got in from work and started watching. Have they said if anyone at party was armed?
The people doing the shooting were.
Lots of rain in south florida the next few days.
Now here is something a disgruntled worker leaves the workplace, but never comes back. Then in a separate incident two shooters with no ties enter into the Inland Regional Center and open fire on a seminar or holiday party that is taking place in a room on the 3rd floor killing 14 people. They escape in their getaway SUV, but get tracked down by police cars and shot and killed inside their SUV, the officers get a tip to investigate a house that has a potential IED inside it. Now back at the Inland Regional Center, a California ATF spokeswoman says, "an explosive device has been found." This doesn't seem like the works of a disgruntled worker, if it is where did they get the money to buy all these explosives, guns, and armor? Or for that matter have the intelligence to make these explosive devices, especially if they are pipe bombs?
Quoting 540. Bucsboltsfan:



Also, he's either incredibly smart or is a whiz at Google search. Either way he provides a wealth of information to the blog.
It's both. I'm incredibly smart and an incredibly fast typist. :-) Thanks regardless.
Atleast 1 shooter was Muslim but born in US. Other shooter has middle eastern name as well per Washington Times.
Quoting 554. GTstormChaserCaleb:

Now here is something a disgruntled worker leaves the workplace, but never comes back. Then in a separate incident two shooters with no ties enter into the Inland Regional Center and open fire on a seminar or holiday party that is taking place in a room on the 3rd floor killing 14 people. They escape in their getaway SUV, but get tracked down by police cars and shot and killed inside their SUV, the officers get a tip to investigate a house that has a potential IED inside it. Now back at the Inland Regional Center, a California ATF spokeswoman says, "an explosive device has been found." This doesn't seem like the works of a disgruntled worker, if it is where did they get the money to buy all these explosives, guns, and armor? Or for that matter have the intelligence to make these explosive devices, especially if they are pipe bombs?


Washington & LA Times are reporting both had Middle Eastern names one was known to be a Muslim per the shooters dad. Breaking right now on the news.
Quoting 550. sar2401:

From what I've read, there were no confirmed explosive devices. Long guns are often misidentified by witnesses as everything from a .22 to a BAR. It's not unusual for people who use guns illegally to wear black a lot of the time - kind of a uniform. People under great stress make really terrible witnesses, and it's compounded when they are in a crowd, and talk to other witnesses before the are officially interviewed. Having been involved in similar incidents, a lot of the information that gets to the public is often both wrong and inflammatory. We'll see what this turns out to be, but I really doubt this is a planned terrorist attack.


The information is all over the place. I thought there was a confirmed explosive device left at the original site. That must have changed.
This was a Paris style Attack per LA Times
Quoting 554. GTstormChaserCaleb:

Now here is something a disgruntled worker leaves the workplace, but never comes back. Then in a separate incident two shooters with no ties enter into the Inland Regional Center and open fire on a seminar or holiday party that is taking place in a room on the 3rd floor killing 14 people. They escape in their getaway SUV, but get tracked down by police cars and shot and killed inside their SUV, the officers get a tip to investigate a house that has a potential IED inside it. Now back at the Inland Regional Center, a California ATF spokeswoman says, "an explosive device has been found." This doesn't seem like the works of a disgruntled worker, if it is where did they get the money to buy all these explosives, guns, and armor? Or for that matter have the intelligence to make these explosive devices, especially if they are pipe bombs?
You'll hear all kinds of stories about this until there's more official details. Don't assume anything you're hearing is true. I don't know who the ATF guy was, but, if he's from the ATF, he's federal, not California. The higher up they are in the organization, the more of what they know is filtered through five underlings. The fog of war makes things totally confused at this juncture.
Quoting 558. Bucsboltsfan:



The information is all over the place. I thought there was a confirmed explosive device left at the original site. That must have changed.
I've heard it was confirmed, then it wasn't an actual explosive. I've heard they were throwing pipe bombs out of the SUV at the cops, then it was something, but not a pipe bomb. Maybe dope, or a two day old sub sandwich for all I know. I know just what you do, since I'm not on the inside of this. Every reporter has their own sources, and every source wants their 15 minutes of fame, along with the reporter. Add in twitter, FB, and youtube, and I have no clue what source is right.
Quoting 549. BaltimoreBrian:

Cover of tomorrow's New York Daily News on comment #1844 of my blog. It seemed...injudicious...to post it here directly.
Hmmm...I wonder what the Daily News plan is to end the "gun scourge"?
On a topic somewhat related to the blog entry, I just looked at the Wikipedia entry on Joaquin and found it well written and pretty accurate... Must have been written by one of our guys.... 😀
Quoting 559. StormTrackerScott:

This was a Paris style Attack per LA Times


Really? The man worked at the govt agency. Was a US citizen. Words or an altercation happend at a Christmas party. He leaves in anger then returns with another person and shoots the place up for a just a few minutes and bolt out of there. How does that compare to Paris?
Neighbor reported the guy making what looked like a bomb in his garage but nothing was done. Also both now are reported to have Muslim backgrounds.
Quoting 541. StormTrackerScott:

UPDATE: 1 identified as Middle Eastern.
By the way it should be noted, it doesn't matter whether he was middle eastern, black, white, indian, whatever race, ethnicity, or religious ideology he may be, this is an act of terrorism, a workplace violence that causes a mass murder of a targeted group of people, and if the dispute led to the shooters going back home, putting on their gear, and coming back, it meant that they came back to terrorize not just these group of people, but a whole community because it affected businesses around this area and it affected neighborhoods and had an intent to strike fear and shock within the community. People had to stay indoors and lock themselves in because they didn't know what was going to happen next. In fact, I would even go as far as saying the Sandy Hook shooting was an act of terrorism. Something needs to be done about our gun laws, guns are ending up in a hands of wrong people, and this is what results. Sad and sickening!
Don't let this world bring you down
There will be times when it seems hopeless to try any more
When the weight on your shoulders is too much to handle
you can not let it crush you
What you need to do
is grow stronger so you can carry it

Quoting 538. DeepSeaRising:



Not to us Sar, you may not be the most interesting man in the world, but certainly the most experienced. You know a lot about a lot. Sure your not as old as Grothar?
I guess one of the advantages of living to a relatively old age is you get to have a lot of experiences. I was thinking about that the other day. How much different my life would have been if I had been born on an Alabama farm in 1846 instead of Cleveland in 1946. I was lucky enough to be born into a good family at exactly the right time in human history. That has allowed me to go to more places and do more things than the richest man in the world could have done in 1846. If I die tomorrow, I'll have had a very good life.
For those who lost their lives today to violence and insanity

For the family and friends, and esp the wounded who survived,

....and all of us affected in our own lives.

And in my Hour of Darkness, She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom
let it be'
Quoting 565. Bucsboltsfan:



Really? The man worked at the govt agency. Was a US citizen. Words or an altercation happend at a Christmas party. He leaves in anger then returns with another person and shoots the place up for a just a few minutes and bolt out of there. How does that compare to Paris?


That theory is being ruled out according to Fox news
574. flsky
Quoting 570. Patrap:

For those who lost their lives today to violence and insanity

For the family and friends, and esp the wounded who survived,

....and all of us affected in our own lives.

And in my Hour of Darkness, She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom
let it be'

NO. Don't let it be. Make some noise. Call your politicians. Do something!
Quoting 567. GTstormChaserCaleb:

By the way it should be noted, it doesn't matter whether he was middle eastern, black, white, indian, whatever race, ethnicity, or religious ideology he may be, this is an act of terrorism, a workplace violence that causes a mass murder of a targeted group of people, and if the dispute led to the shooters going back home, putting on their gear, and coming back, it meant that they came back to terrorize not just these group of people, but a whole community because it affected businesses around this area and it affected neighborhoods and had an intent to strike fear and shock within the community. People had to stay indoors and lock themselves in because they didn't know what was going to happen next. In fact, I would even go as far as saying the Sandy Hook shooting was an act of terrorism. Something needs to be done about our gun laws, guns are ending up in a hands of wrong people, and this is what results. Sad and sickening!
Good idea. Does California have gun laws?
579. flsky
Quoting 565. Bucsboltsfan:



Really? The man worked at the govt agency. Was a US citizen. Words or an altercation happend at a Christmas party. He leaves in anger then returns with another person and shoots the place up for a just a few minutes and bolt out of there. How does that compare to Paris?

It's called terrorism.
Quoting 582. flsky:


Wrong time for "cute."


I agree with a explosion yet. Pretty sick if you ask me with what is going on.
584. flsky
Quoting 540. Bucsboltsfan:



Also, he's either incredibly smart or is a whiz at Google search. Either way he provides a wealth of information to the blog.



Obviously Google. He's done it forever. That's OK sar. If that's what you need to do, we'll deal with it.
Quoting 546. StormTrackerScott:



Seems more and more this was a terrorist attack according to authorities


That's great Scott - to me that's not enough to tell me that it was politically motivated. It's way too early to make a definitive judgment. This is a massive case with tons of resources (tax dollars) and lives lost. Secure the area first and then move to collecting evidence.

So saddening. Those poor families affected.
Quoting 568. KEEPEROFTHEGATE:

Don't let this world bring you down
There will be times when it seems hopeless to try any more
When the weight on your shoulders is too much to handle
you can not let it crush you
What you need to do
is grow stronger so you can carry it



What?
"ye shall turn upon one another brother against brother it shall consume the planet like a fire"

For Dakster:

The latest ONI values that have emerged from NCEP R1 & OISSTv2 are just plain ridiculous. I seriously can't believe we're closing in on +2.5C in the tri-monthlies. The 1877-78 & 1997-98 Super El Ninos are the only events to approach &/or exceed this threshold. Incredible.

OISSTv2 ONI (2000-Present) (1986-2015 base period)


NCEP R1 ONI (1990-Present) (1981-2010 base period (until January 2016))
597. jpsb
Quoting 578. Kenfa03:

Good idea. Does California have gun laws?


Gun laws? It seems like guns soon may be the least of our worries,

Link
Quoting 595. BaltimoreBrian:



Fake. How is this newspaper being released if the city is underwater. And why are there still newspapers in 2107?
Webberweather53: assuming for a moment that the so-called 'pause' in global warming is accounted for by more heat being accumulated in the oceans, then I suppose it is not surprising that we have a strong El Nino; similarly, we might expect to have more of them in future, and indeed stronger events (higher SST anomolies) when they occur. Another symptom of more heat going in to the oceans would be an acceleration in the rate of sea level change (rise in sea level), although this would presumably be offset to some extent by greater evaporation and more moisture in the atmosphere. Thus a big proportion of the extra heat contributes to phase change and thermal expansion, rather than an increase in sensible heat in the atmosphere. Nonetheless, v. interesting to see such high temps during the current El Nino. It will be interesting to see by how much these increase during El Nino's over the next decade.
Cody, the New Yorker is a magazine, not a newspaper. And you used the wrong tense throughout :)
Where's FL. Never mind!

Quoting 595. BaltimoreBrian:


Quoting 601. BaltimoreBrian:

Cody, the New Yorker is a magazine, not a newspaper. And you used the wrong tense throughout :)

Tomayto, tomahto.
Quoting 578. Kenfa03:

Good idea. Does California have gun laws?


Are you referring to the kind that prevent innocent people from defending themselves?

I'm tired of seeing people take advantage of tragedy as an excuse to push a political agenda. I'm not saying you are at all, I'm just referring to the political scene.
Quoting 604. Jedkins01:



Are you referring to the kind that prevent innocent people from defending themselves?

I'm tired of seeing people take advantage of tragedy as an excuse to push a political agenda. I'm not saying you are at all, I'm just referring to the political scene.

That's the problem in Holland. We have politicized the whole thing with gun laws and this results in our country having about a dozen times less culture* than the US. Nobody can defend himself here so all those deranged people just stay alive but can do nothing!

(* culture = daily shooting parties & gunshot deaths and of course terror toddlers).
Quoting 604. Jedkins01:



Are you referring to the kind that prevent innocent people from defending themselves?

I'm tired of seeing people take advantage of tragedy as an excuse to push a political agenda. I'm not saying you are at all, I'm just referring to the political scene.


Yeah, the "the solution to too many weapons is even more weapons" argument again, and it's so true!

If only these disabled people were allowed to carry a Heckler-Koch HK MG4 MG43 machine gun, body armor and a tactical helmet, they could have defended themselves against these attackers with only very few lives lost on the defending side!

This "let anyone have assault weapons freely" libertarian model works so well in practice, it really turned role model countries like Somalia and Afghanistan (NRA score: A ) into true paradises. (The liberal media is lying about these countries, you should go see them in person, they are a gun enthusiast's paradise. And no taxes!)

More weapons are always a blessing, especially when everyone else is toting them. When people have disagreements it's always a good idea to have a gun nearby, easily accessible, it's basic common sense.

The scientific argument is very simple as well: that as the number of easily available assault weapons in a country goes up, gun violence goes down. The same is true of CO2: as the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere goes up, temperature goes down.

The current warming trend:

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

is only a political argument, a liberal conspiracy.
Quoting 605. cRRKampen:


That's the problem in Holland. We have politicized the whole thing with gun laws and this results in our country having about a dozen times less culture* than the US. Nobody can defend himself here so all those deranged people just stay alive but can do nothing!

(* culture = daily shooting parties & gunshot deaths and of course terror toddlers).


The funny thing about gun control, is that it merely takes the ability to self defense away from intelligent, law abiding citizens, which makes up the vast majority of those in possession of fire arms at the expense of some people who murder with them. The fact is criminals will get them, France has very strict gun laws, and terrorists found a way to slaughter people there. Guess what? People didn't have weapons to defend themselves from the attack, but the attackers still had guns.

It's also no coincidence that all dictators make it a priority to completely disarm the populace. They often do so by using fear tactics to convince people that getting rid of guns is good because of gun violence. Why? Because instilling fear causes people to forfeit rational decision making and liberty. It's the same reason people think terrorists are a much bigger threat than climate change. It's because terrorism is designed to instill fear, while climate change, killing and destroying far more, slips under the radar of most people, because people aren't afraid. Facts speak for themselves time and time again.

However it's worth noting, I don't think how the NRA handles things is good either. We should be having laws the make it harder for criminals to get guns. There is a major difference between that and banning gun ownership all together.
Some pretty spot on commentary here, boys and girls.

I would like to add, however, that I don't think controlling the guns is really the solution. Just like bombing an ideology out of existence doesn't work. What we have to do, as individuals, as a society, as a species, is look at the underlying causes for these dysfunctions. Why are we not excelling, working together toward our collective betterment? Why are we not solving our problems and moving forward toward enlightened progress? We have everything we need, right now.

The answers lie in taking a good long look at ourselves, the way that we live, the way that we do things, the way we are. I fear that human beings will not do it in time, but I guess it ain't over till it's over.
Quoting 607. Jedkins01:


The stupid thing about gun control, is that it merely takes the ability to self defense away from intelligent, law abiding citizens, which makes up the vast majority of those in possession of fire arms at the expense of some people who murder with them. The fact is criminals will get them, France has very strict gun laws, and terrorists found a way to slaughter people there. Guess what? People didn't have weapons to defend themselves from the attack, but the attackers still had guns...

Of course criminals and deranged people stick out like sore thumbs in society, and terrorists are all people called 'Farook' or 'Mohammed' and have a bit of skin colour.
Since the US still had almost three times as many victims from the daily mass shootings this year as the Paris attackers managed to take down, the US must still be doing something wrong.
I'd like to pair up with you and lobby for three automatic rifles and a LAW for everyone who is not called 'Farook' and then, finally, there will be no shootings anymore, ever.

Holland is, of course, a typical dictatorship - we are like North Korea, really. I hasten to add this is a good thing.

Cetero censeo mundum esse delendum.


Quoting 608. Mediarologist:

Some pretty spot on commentary here, boys and girls.

I would like to add, however, that I don't think controlling the guns is really the solution. Just like bombing an ideology out of existence doesn't work. What we have to do, as individuals, as a society, as a species, is look at the underlying causes for these dysfunctions. Why are we not excelling, working together toward our collective betterment? Why are we not solving our problems and moving forward toward enlightened progress?

The answers lie in taking a good long look at ourselves, the way that we live, the way that we do things, the way we are. I fear that human beings will not do it in time, but I guess it ain't over till it's over.


We need to look at those who we put in corporate or political power and then at those who present themselves as completely brainwashed by those. Some absolutely insane comments just below, things that could've come straight from The Onion, bear witness to that.
Quoting 608. Mediarologist:

Some pretty spot on commentary here, boys and girls.

I would like to add, however, that I don't think controlling the guns is really the solution. Just like bombing an ideology out of existence doesn't work. What we have to do, as individuals, as a society, as a species, is look at the underlying causes for these dysfunctions. Why are we not excelling, working together toward our collective betterment? Why are we not solving our problems and moving forward toward enlightened progress?

The answers lie in taking a good long look at ourselves, the way that we live, the way that we do things, the way we are. I fear that human beings will not do it in time, but I guess it ain't over till it's over.



Exactly my stance: and I also think that Ebola and Bubonic Plague strains, carborane acid, fluoroantimonic acid and other superacid compounds should be freely available on Amazon, in addition to cyclotetramethylene-tetranitramine, with no government interference.

There are legitimate research and self-defense reasons to own them, and they should never be controlled.

The same goes for Polonium-210 and of course Plutonium-239! If North Korea can threaten me with nuclear weapons it's my God given right to threaten them right back.

Being able to inflict harm freely is a basic principle of self defense, and for that reason various methods of destruction should never be controlled - any disagreements can be settled after the fact, in civil court, there's no prior government regulation and control necessary - it's not like a nuclear strike has irreversible effects.

The same goes for CO2: the "freedom to pollute" is a basic human right - it should be added as the 28th amendment. You only have to wait a few million years for the excess CO2 to clear out of the atmosphere, so what's the big fuss about? If the Koch brothers want to earn another honest billion dollars by burning coal, who are we to stop them?

Quoting 611. 7000ppm:



Exactly my stance: and I also think that Ebola and Bubonic Plague strains, carborane acid, fluoroantimonic acid and other superacid compounds should be freely available on Amazon, with no government interference.


Well, you're on a roll I guess, so just keep on going, right? Don't ever slow down.. and certainly don't ever pause. Oh look, weather!


Quoting 609. cRRKampen:


Of course criminals and deranged people stick out like sore thumbs in society, and terrorists are all people called 'Farook' or 'Mohammed' and have a bit of skin colour.
Since the US still had almost three times as many victims from the daily mass shootings this year as the Paris attackers managed to take down, the US must still be doing something wrong.
I'd like to pair up with you and lobby for three automatic rifles and a LAW for everyone who is not called 'Farook' and then, finally, there will be no shootings anymore, ever.

Holland is, of course, a typical dictatorship - we are like North Korea, really. I hasten to add this is a good thing.

Cetero censeo mundum esse delendum.





The typical argument by gun control advocates is that gun violence in the U.S. is higher than some chosen European country because the U.S. has more gun freedom. That is bad science, because each nation has a lot of different things that influence violence. The fact is, if one analyzes many countries from across the world, whether it be those with gun freedom or restriction, some countries are very violent that have loose gun control, and some countries are very violent that have strict gun control. As a result, there are a number of other things that influence violence.

The U.S. is high on the gun crime list mainly due to a handful of major cities that have very high violent crime rates like Chicago. Ironically the vast majority of gun crimes in the U.S. occur in areas with stricter gun laws.

Even if that wasn't true though, the fact is that with a population over 300 million, at least 60-80 million Americans likely legally own guns, so if you're going to argue that guns=bad people, millions Americans should be getting shot,, but they aren't... In fact, overall, despite media sensation, violence has decreased in the U.S. since the 1990's while gun sales having risen substantially during this same period.

So then, here comes in where my argument was already proven true. It does not make sense to restrict the liberty of millions of law abiding people having the right to defend themselves because a small minority of people use them to do bad things. That is poor reasoning, and injustice. Political figures have used media coverage of the gun violence to instill fear in people such that people give up their liberty in response to fear being instilled.

Also, I never that all governments who take away guns are dictatorships. There are plenty of democratic nations in Europe and other places that have that are not dictatorships. Rather, there is an obvious reason why dictators want to take away guns from citizens. I shouldn't even have to mention why.
Actually I think this one is better, cause it shows where I live and stuff. The water vapor loop is one of my favorites, though. It just tells such a story.



Sure is dry, dry, dry over here on the southern side of all that energy. I remember it being like this before with El Nino, until about mid December. Keeping up my hopes for some fun to yet come my way.
Quoting 613. Jedkins01:



The typical argument by gun control advocates is that gun violence in the U.S. is higher than some chosen European country because the U.S. has more gun freedom. That is bad science, because each nation has a lot of different things that influence violence. The fact is, if one analyzes many countries from across the world, whether it be those with gun freedom or restriction, some countries are very violent that have loose gun control, and some countries are very violent that have strict gun control. As a result, there are a number of other things that influence violence.

The U.S. is high on the gun crime list mainly due to a handful of major cities that have very high violent crime rates like Chicago. Ironically the vast majority of gun crimes in the U.S. occur in areas with stricter gun laws.

Even if that wasn't true though, the fact is that with a population over 300 million, at least 60-80 million Americans likely legally own guns, so if you're going to argue that guns=bad people, millions Americans should be getting shot,, but they aren't... In fact, overall, despite media sensation, violence has decreased in the U.S. since the 1990's while gun sales having risen substantially during this same period.

So then, here comes in where my argument was already proven true. It does not make sense to restrict the liberty of millions of law abiding people having the right to defend themselves because a small minority of people use them to do bad things. That is poor reasoning, and injustice. Political figures have used media coverage of the gun violence to instill fear in people such that people give up their liberty in response to fear being instilled.

Also, I never that all governments who take away guns are dictatorships. There are plenty of democratic nations in Europe and other places that have that are not dictatorships. Rather, there is an obvious reason why dictators want to take away guns from citizens. I shouldn't even have to mention why.

The obvious reason govt's want to take away guns from citizens - citizen's govts that is - is to get some peace in the streets.

You are right in that more factors make the US 10-15 times as gun-deadly as e.g. Canada or Switzerland. Knowing that large numbers are a total abstraction for most people let me repeat them spelled out: ten to fifteen times. If you are at all able to take in this large number (or 'statistic', huh), then you cannot say 'So then, here comes in where my argument was already proven true.' without irony.
Yours, the US, is a country where fearmongering is an integral part of the culture (as is racism, which is an essential factor too - the US is a veritable industry for deranged or disenfranchised people). Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine' is actually a piece of sound and complete research into this.

Then, all you gun-advertising people who use the argument of self-defense against govt are actually supporters not of democracy but of an oligarchy called the military-industrial complex. The argument is worse than self-defeating, it is suicidal.

Finally, you might prefer today's Syria above all other countries. Guns galore and a lot bad guys (those with a little colour or of muslim faith, as you well know) die there every day because of that. The best opposition to the Syrian dictator would have to be one of your favourite organizations, it is called Daesh.

Disclaimer... I'm a better pistol shooter than about 98 out of 100 gun owning Americans. In Holland one CAN own guns, well regulated, as a sports shooter.


616. beell
Quoting 586. bappit:

Must be okay to post this.




I'm not sure. It seems to be.
Quoting 612. Mediarologist:



Well, you're on a roll I guess, so just keep on going, right? Don't ever slow down.. and certainly don't ever pause. Oh look, weather!




True, there was no arguing with that - entirely correct and realistic - reasoning.
Quoting 613. Jedkins01:



The typical argument by gun control advocates is that gun violence in the U.S. is higher than some chosen European country because the U.S. has more gun freedom. That is bad science, because each nation has a lot of different things that influence violence. The fact is, if one analyzes many countries from across the world, whether it be those with gun freedom or restriction, some countries are very violent that have loose gun control, and some countries are very violent that have strict gun control. As a result, there are a number of other things that influence violence.

The U.S. is high on the gun crime list mainly due to a handful of major cities that have very high violent crime rates like Chicago. Ironically the vast majority of gun crimes in the U.S. occur in areas with stricter gun laws.

Even if that wasn't true though, the fact is that with a population over 300 million, at least 60-80 million Americans likely legally own guns, so if you're going to argue that guns=bad people, millions Americans should be getting shot,, but they aren't... In fact, overall, despite media sensation, violence has decreased in the U.S. since the 1990's while gun sales having risen substantially during this same period.

So then, here comes in where my argument was already proven true. It does not make sense to restrict the liberty of millions of law abiding people having the right to defend themselves because a small minority of people use them to do bad things. That is poor reasoning, and injustice. Political figures have used media coverage of the gun violence to instill fear in people such that people give up their liberty in response to fear being instilled.

Also, I never that all governments who take away guns are dictatorships. There are plenty of democratic nations in Europe and other places that have that are not dictatorships. Rather, there is an obvious reason why dictators want to take away guns from citizens. I shouldn't even have to mention why.
I read this, and was saddened to see nothing more than a yet another rehash of debunked NRA talking points. Rather than point out either those points or their many obvious flaws, I'll present my own counterpoints:

--States with most gun violence: 1) Alaska 2) Louisiana 3) Mississippi 4) Alabama 5) Montana. NOTE: not a Chicago among them. (In fact, Alaska has the highest crime rate of all 50 states.)

--Seven of the 10 states with the most firearm deaths have enacted stand your ground laws.

--None of the states with the most gun violence require permits to purchase rifles, shotguns, or handguns.

--None of the states with the most gun violence require gun owners to register their weapons.

--Many of the states with the least gun violence require a permit or other form of identification to buy a gun.

--More people die from gun violence in the US every two months or so than were killed by terrorists on 9/11.

--For every US firearm death that comes as a result of self-defense--that is, the so-rare-it's-nearly-mythical "good guy with a gun" scenario--there are a) two accidental deaths, b) 38 homicides, and c) 72 suicides.

No one credible is suggesting getting rid of all guns. But common sense and heavily-supported things such as requiring background checks and closing the gun show loophole would be great places to start. But we can't even do that, with the NRA using politicians and media coverage to instill fear in people so they keep buying guns in record numbers. You know, to "protect" themselves.

This is not because of Chicago:



Source: 2013 Deaths as a result of assault by firearms
622. SuzK
Quoting 615. cRRKampen:


The obvious reason govt's want to take away guns from citizens - citizen's govts that is - is to get some peace in the streets.

You are right in that more factors make the US 10-15 times as gun-deadly as e.g. Canada or Switzerland. Knowing that large numbers are a total abstraction for most people let me repeat them spelled out: ten to fifteen times. If you are at all able to take in this large number (or 'statistic', huh), then you cannot say 'So then, here comes in where my argument was already proven true.' without irony.
Yours, the US, is a country where fearmongering is an integral part of the culture (as is racism, which is an essential factor too - the US is a veritable industry for deranged or disenfranchised people). Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine' is actually a piece of sound and complete research into this.

Then, all you gun-advertising people who use the argument of self-defense against govt are actually supporters not of democracy but of an oligarchy called the military-industrial complex. The argument is worse than self-defeating, it is suicidal.

Finally, you might prefer today's Syria above all other countries. Guns galore and a lot bad guys (those with a little colour or of muslim faith, as you well know) die there every day because of that. The best opposition to the Syrian dictator would have to be one of your favourite organizations, it is called Daesh.

Disclaimer... I'm a better pistol shooter than about 98 out of 100 gun owning Americans. In Holland one CAN own guns, well regulated, as a sports shooter.





Once I picked up my jaw from the floor at this amazing piece of ignorant hubris....well, I guess you'd better stay in Holland because the first time you Dutch folks came, we ended up with Hell's Kitchen and Wall Street, the latter oligarcharian in nature, and that's all I'm going to say about that. Please tell me you are actively doing anything to help your country from sinking into the ocean from AGW-CC-GHE. Don't cut us down after using stats that show that it's not so bad here, it could be taken as non-sequitor by more than myself.
Quoting 622. SuzK:



Once I picked up my jaw from the floor at this amazing piece of ignorant hubris....well, I guess you'd better stay in Holland because the first time you Dutch folks came, we ended up with Hell's Kitchen and Wall Street, the latter oligarcharian in nature, and that's all I'm going to say about that. Please tell me you are actively doing anything to help your country from sinking into the ocean from AGW-CC-GHE. Don't cut us down after using stats that show that it's not so bad here, it could be taken as non-sequitor by more than myself.

Yes, I actively clamour for the Dutch turn for the millenium floods (the kind that hits central Europe twice a decade now). I believe this is the best way to pull some attention to the fact that this country will cease to exist, thanks to the WAIS and our river problems, by the end of this century. By me people will know here what happened and what the Dutch have done or done not to make it happen.
(This is the worst climate revisionist country in all of Europe, owned by Shell and Exxon/NAM as it is).

As to ignorant hybris, you mean I know that there's a dozen times more per capita gun killing in the States and I know why? Thank you!
drizzly day ahead water out back is definitely alittle higher than normal. e cen fl.
Quoting 541. StormTrackerScott:

UPDATE: 1 identified as Middle Eastern.


So? The guy who shot up the abortion clinic was white. What sort of conclusions do you draw from that?
Can we talk about weather please. Isn't this Weather Underground. I came here for weather, not the news.
Really curious as to why my comment got deleted the other day with all of this ranting being allowed on here now.

But whatever. The problem here isn't guns. It isn't politics. The people in the world today are being desensitized to their emotions and their social skills are being dwindled away by social media and people having their faces stuck to a piece of technology instead of socializing with the person next to them and becoming friends with their neighbors, rather than enemies.

People of older generations always say "There weren't this many shootings when I was younger," and IMO, it is directly correlated to the degradation of our societies morals, compassion, and basic social skills. People don't k now how to cope with struggles anymore, so they internalize it and move on, that is until they snap.

This business of burning human beings with napalm, of filling our nation's homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into veins of people normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice and love." - (Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence by Rev. Martin Luther King - 4 April 1967)
Quoting 618. tampabaymatt:



Yet another example of why you should not be a Mod. I will be alerting WU Administration about this threatening comment made to me.


Dude, you say I whine when I tell it like it is about the future with AGW caveats, you bash Naga for coming down hard on denying trolls here, Keep's been here long before you and you react as if he's run over your dog with this nothing threat your now implying. How about you grow up and get a little thicker skin. And yes Andrebrooks the climate change conference has been hijacked by this latest round of terrorism, both here and in the news. Consensus seems to be that mid to late December could be very interesting and a big severe outbreak combined with a large snow storm further north is not out of the question.
Quoting 626. Andrebrooks:

Can we talk about weather please. Isn't this Weather Underground. I came here for weather, not the news.


Good morning all. Expecting many inches of rain here over the next few days. Some rumbles of thunder now...







Quoting 554. GTstormChaserCaleb:

Now here is something a disgruntled worker leaves the workplace, but never comes back. Then in a separate incident two shooters with no ties enter into the Inland Regional Center and open fire on a seminar or holiday party that is taking place in a room on the 3rd floor killing 14 people. They escape in their getaway SUV, but get tracked down by police cars and shot and killed inside their SUV, the officers get a tip to investigate a house that has a potential IED inside it. Now back at the Inland Regional Center, a California ATF spokeswoman says, "an explosive device has been found." This doesn't seem like the works of a disgruntled worker, if it is where did they get the money to buy all these explosives, guns, and armor? Or for that matter have the intelligence to make these explosive devices, especially if they are pipe bombs?


Explosive devices are exceptionally easy to make, and remarkably cheap to build. Seriously, a few bucks, a trip to Home Depot, and a few hours of home chemistry is all it takes.

The armor? You can find vest online starting at sub-$100. Guns? Ammo? Almost as prevalent as candy, and again not expensive (or hard to get).

Someone just doesn't up and become disgruntled/crazy. It's usually a process that happens over time. And as they go further and further into crazy town they start making plans. Remember Columbine? Those were high school kids. They spent a couple months coming up with plans, making bombs, acquiring or coming up with ways to acquire weapons and ammunition. If a couple of high school kids can do it, then pretty much anyone can (and they do).

All this really proves is that they were nuts. Anything beyond that is speculation at this point.
#627 +100, that's spot on.
Quoting 625. Xyrus2000:



So? The guy who shot up the abortion clinic was white. What sort of conclusions do you draw from that?


That guy was a nut case. This attack yesterday was a well planned Paris Style attack with multiple shooters and possible multiple destinations being targeted. Some of the info out there states these guys were going after more than 1 place. Personally I can't believe people are so afraid to call it what it is. This is a different world where love and peace just doesn't fly anymore and to be quite frank anyone of Middle Eastern Decent that is on some sort of watch list should be kicked out of the US. Main reason why we should NOT take in any Syrian refugee's.
LAW ENFORCEMENT SOURCES tell Fox News that San Bernardino, Calif. shooting suspects Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik left multiple pipe bombs and other explosive devices at various sites associated with their killing spree Wednesday — including three pipe bombs at the Inland Regional Center, where they murdered 14 people and injured 17 others, multiple pipe bombs inside the SUV where they were shot and killed after a gun battle with police Wednesday afternoon, and more pipe bombs and other small explosives at a house in the nearby city of Redlands which investigators were searching in connection with the rampage.
Quoting 628. DeepSeaRising:



Dude, you say I whine when I tell it like it is about the future with AGW caveats, you bash Naga for coming down hard on denying trolls here, Keep's been here long before you and you react as if he's run over your dog with this nothing threat your now implying. How about you grow up and get a little thicker skin. And yes Andrebrooks the climate change conference has been hijacked by this latest round of terrorism, both here and in the news. Consensus seems to be that mid to late December could be very interesting and a big severe outbreak combined with a large snow storm further north is not out of the question.


I have cleared the air with Naga, and my interactions with any of the other posters here is none of your concern. It's interesting that you are suggesting I get thicker skin, when you have brought up the "whining" comment several times since it was posted, perhaps it's time to get over it? You implied that someone was a AGW denier because they didn't agree with your Armageddon rant. My counter point to you is that not everyone responds to that type of rhetoric, some people don't want to hear incessant doom and gloom scenarios, and are driven more by results, actions, and solutions. Why you took such an issue to that is beyond me.

Numerous people have pointed out concerns with Keep, do they need to get thicker skin too? I'm not going to be threatened by a mod on here without responding. Despite what some might believe, what you write on the internet matters.
I have a small gun but I don't get the urge to go out and shoot people.The people in behind these shootings were mentally deranged citizens.Have more background checks but don't take away from law abiding citizens.
STS, they too had traveled to Saudi Arabia, his wife is from there and he's an American with Pakistani parents. Clearly this is at least galvanizing towards a terrorist attack. Clearly not workplace violence.
Quoting 636. DeepSeaRising:

STS, they too had traveled to Saudi Arabia, his wife is from there and he's an American with Pakistani parents. Clearly this is at least galvanizing towards a terrorist attack. Clearly not workplace violence.


Yeah especially with reports of other possible attacks planned and they pipe bombs in the conference hall
Quoting 629. ChillinInTheKeys:



Good morning all. Expecting many inches of rain here over the next few days. Some rumbles of thunder now...








Good morning Chillin, I hope you are dry from all of that rain. Stay safe.
Quoting 632. StormTrackerScott:



Personally I can't believe people are so afraid to call it what it is. This is a different world where love and peace just doesn't fly anymore and to be quite frank anyone of Middle Eastern Decent that is on some sort of watch list should be kicked out of the US. Main reason why we should NOT take in any Syrian refugee's.


Congratulations. You're giving ISIS (and those inspired by them) exactly what they want when this is your response.
From the Miami NWS Disco...

TODAY-FRIDAY...INGREDIENTS ARE IN PLACE FOR A WET AND STORMY
PERIOD THROUGH FRIDAY ACROSS SOUTH FLORIDA. EVENING SOUNDINGS
SHOWED THAT PWATS HAVE ALREADY CLIMBED TO AROUND 2" AT MIAMI AND
KEY WEST, WHICH ALREADY PLACES US AROUND 2 STANDARD DEVIATIONS
ABOVE NORMAL FOR THIS TIME OF YEAR. WATER VAPOR SATELLITE ALSO
SHOWS SOME ADDITIONAL MOISTURE POOLED ACROSS THE FL STRAITS THAT
WILL BE ADVECTED NORTHWARDS THROUGH THE DAY AS THE MOISTURE POOLED
ALONG THE FRONT ALSO DROPS INTO THE REGION. THE FRONT ITSELF IS
NOW MOVING INTO CENTRAL FL WITH A FEW SHOWERS AND IS FORECAST TO
REACH INTO SOUTH FLORIDA MID-LATE MORNING.

ONGOING ACTIVITY OVER THE STRAITS AND KEYS WILL STREAM INTO THE
REGION THIS MORNING WITH SCATTERED TO NUMEROUS SHOWERS AND A FEW
STORMS DEVELOPING IN THE MOIST AND UNSTABLE ENVIRONMENT. RAIN
BECOMES WIDESPREAD INTO THIS AFTERNOON WITH THE ARRIVAL OF THE
FRONT WITH EMBEDDED STORMS. OVERNIGHT HOURS INTO EARLY FRIDAY ARE
LOOKING LIKE THE BEST PERIOD FOR HEAVY RAINFALL WITH JET FORCING
AT A MAXIMUM AND INCREASING LAPSE RATES AS THE UPPER LEVEL TROUGH
APPROACHES.

LOCALLY HEAVY RAIN IS THE MAIN CONCERN OVER THE NEXT TWO DAYS AND
WPC HAS THE AREA OUTLOOKED FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF EXCESSIVE
RAINFALL TONIGHT INTO FRIDAY. HOW WIDESPREAD HEAVY RAINFALL ENDS
UP BECOMING IS STILL IN QUESTION, BUT NO CONFIDENCE EXISTS ON
WHERE HEAVIER RAIN BANDS SET UP AS THIS WILL BE DEPENDENT ON
WHERE THE FRONT LINGERS.

MODEL SOUNDINGS STILL SHOW AN INCREASE IN 0-1KM HELICITY VALUES
LATER THROUGH EARLY FRIDAY AS THE FRONT OSCILLATES ACROSS THE
AREA, LEADING TO THE POSSIBILITY FOR SOME STRONGER AND ROTATING
STORMS.
conflicting forecast for next hurricane season el nino or la nina?
Quoting 595. BaltimoreBrian:





Well, this is just a spin-off of the original cover from 1976, entitled "A New Yorker's view of the world".....and using a very broad brushstroke, it depicts New Yorker's attitudes fairly accurately....at least the ones I knew & still know. I used to be a New Yorker....but seeing as I've been in Florida for 29 of my 58 years....I call myself "1/2 a cracker" now

Quoting 632. StormTrackerScott:

That guy was a nut case.
Possibly. And all the more reason for stricter gun control laws; why oh why is the NRA so intent on allowing "nut cases" to purchase semi-automatic weapons?
Quoting 632. StormTrackerScott:

This attack yesterday was a well planned Paris Style attack with multiple shooters and possible multiple destinations being targeted. Some of the info out there states these guys were going after more than 1 place.
This was nothing like Paris. These weren't disaffected and alienated youngsters; this was a long-time county employee with NRA-guaranteed access to military-grade weaponry.
Quoting 632. StormTrackerScott:

Personally I can't believe people are so afraid to call it what it is.
Who's "afraid to call it what it is"? It's either a workplace retaliation of some kind, or (possibly jihadi-motivated) domestic terrorism.
Quoting 632. StormTrackerScott:

This is a different world where love and peace just doesn't fly anymore...
That sounds like a really sad world, if you ask me.
Quoting 632. StormTrackerScott:

...and to be quite frank anyone of Middle Eastern Decent that is on some sort of watch list should be kicked out of the US.
This guy was an American with no prior record. He was on no watch list. Neither was last week's Colorado shooter. Your point doesn't sound so much "frank" as "bigoted".
Quoting 632. StormTrackerScott:

Main reason why we should NOT take in any Syrian refugee's.
Umm...huh? Yesterday's shooting wasn't perpetrated by a Syrian refugee. Did you know that? It was perpetrated by an American man who was born and raised in Illinois. By your "logic", we should not allow any Americans here, either...
Quoting 639. schistkicker:



Congratulations. You're giving ISIS (and those inspired by them) the "hidden hand" that rules this world exactly what they want -- divide & conquer -- when this is your response.


There, fixed
Significant WWB coming in January & February. This could put a major monkey wrench into the 2016 ENSO forecast.



646. MahFL
Did anyone have a problem logging into WU today ?
Seems I had to check an agreement, but it was not all that clear.
Here is the current Conus forecast:

Morn'n everyone. Coffee? Maybe with a little vodka in it for some?...
Quoting 347. DeepSeaRising:

All the power in the world is in the hands of a few select thousands who make up the very top of the one percent world wide. They have driven policy in the West and have a stranglehold on our political systems. We must take it back. They control all major Newspapers, News outlets, and radio. This control has molded thinking in the West that has shifted huge segments of the population into stanchly held beliefs that goes directly against truth and directly supports their agenda. Our democracy has been hijacked, it has been poisoned, and is now is a representative government of the super rich not the people. As individual rights continue to be trampled on and eroded and police forces continue to become more militarized, the gap to putting back the power in the hands of the people grows. Insolvent debt in almost all Western countries has set us up for a financial collapse as over fifty trillion has gone to this very very top in the last fifteen years. Add up the debt in the West and pair it against what the very very top have taken in and the cause and effect becomes very evident. But the sheep, too well entertained to seek truth, dance the dance of self, never bothering to look ahead to the sharp cliff to come.

Nice post. Sounds like a trailer to the Hunger Games. It is a possible scenario.
Scott, Still tring to understand the comparison to Paris. Both are horrific senseless tragedies. There is no comparison the way they were carried out.
Quoting 347. DeepSeaRising:

All the power in the world is in the hands of a few select thousands who make up the very top of the one percent world wide. They have driven policy in the West and have a stranglehold on our political systems. We must take it back. They control all major Newspapers, News outlets, and radio. This control has molded thinking in the West that has shifted huge segments of the population into stanchly held beliefs that goes directly against truth and directly supports their agenda. Our democracy has been hijacked, it has been poisoned, and is now is a representative government of the super rich not the people. As individual rights continue to be trampled on and eroded and police forces continue to become more militarized, the gap to putting back the power in the hands of the people grows. Insolvent debt in almost all Western countries has set us up for a financial collapse as over fifty trillion has gone to this very very top in the last fifteen years. Add up the debt in the West and pair it against what the very very top have taken in and the cause and effect becomes very evident. But the sheep, too well entertained to seek truth, dance the dance of self, never bothering to look ahead to the sharp cliff to come.



Why Things Are the Way They Are: Self-Direction vs the System

Timely information 20 years ago....even more so now

LINK
Quoting 632. StormTrackerScott:



That guy was a nut case. This attack yesterday was a well planned Paris Style attack with multiple shooters and possible multiple destinations being targeted. Some of the info out there states these guys were going after more than 1 place. Personally I can't believe people are so afraid to call it what it is. This is a different world where love and peace just doesn't fly anymore and to be quite frank anyone of Middle Eastern Decent that is on some sort of watch list should be kicked out of the US. Main reason why we should NOT take in any Syrian refugee's.


Seriously enough of the bigotry. Go sell it somewhere else.
Quoting 654. Naga5000:



Seriously enough of the bigotry. Go sell it somewhere else.


I don't get where he is coming from...
I have to agree with those suggesting we need stricter gun control laws. Owning a gun should be considered a significant responsibility, and let’s be honest, the majority of people in this country aren’t equipped to handle significant responsibilities. I agree with Nea that closing the gun show loophole is a great place to start. I just can’t help but think these mass shootings would decrease in number if it was harder for the average lunatic to purchase assault rifles. Hopefully there is a way to enforce the laws such that responsible citizens can still purchase a gun if they so choose without much of a roadblock. The NRA is a plague on our society, and should be completely dissolved. I see the point of those that suggest the opposite, but I respectfully disagree.

Personally, I would sleep better at night knowing there are less guns circulating around the country, not more.
Quoting 649. Pipejazz:


Nice post. Sounds like a trailer to the Hunger Games. It is a possible scenario.


BTW I live in the Capitol :-)

George V. College Park MD, DC suburb
Quoting 655. Bucsboltsfan:



I don't get where he is coming from...


There's nothing to get. He's repeating the nonsense he's read at the Washington Times and heard on Fox News from various "experts" on the opinion shows and lacks the ability to filter it for what it is.
Agree! I will be the token crazy person here. I certainly don't want to own a gun. I know that with my condition that I have no business having one. Don't get me wrong, I would never act in a manner that these folks have, but I still don't think I should have one. In my opinion every person should have a psych evaluation. Not fit to own one? You don't get to buy one! I know this doesn't prevent those from obtaining them illegally, but it would definitely be more of a task, which might divert at least some of them from committing crimes.
Quoting 656. tampabaymatt:

I have to agree with those suggesting we need stricter gun control laws. Owning a gun should be considered a significant responsibility, and let%u2019s be honest, the majority of people in this country aren%u2019t equipped to handle significant responsibilities. I agree with Nea that closing the gun show loophole is a great place to start. I just can%u2019t help but think these mass shootings would decrease in number if it was harder for the average lunatic to purchase assault rifles. Hopefully there is a way to enforce the laws such that responsible citizens can still purchase a gun if they so choose without much of a roadblock. The NRA is a plague on our society, and should be completely dissolved. I see the point of those that suggest the opposite, but I respectfully disagree.

Personally, I would sleep better at night knowing there are less guns circulating around the country, not more.


Quoting 654. Naga5000:



Seriously enough of the bigotry. Go sell it somewhere else.


Amen to that! These so called American's who make such comments actually do nothing but show fear to the world...ooooh run. The great state of Texas admits that it can't handle ..snicker..6 whole families of well vetted Syrians. Run everyone..maybe we should start prison camps again like we did with American born families of Japanese descent in WWII. Notice how quickly some scared individuals actually suggest throwing out our Constitution...yeah thats a true blue American...what the heck? What we need to do is fight ignorance and corruption..the cause of most violence
Quoting 641. islander101010:

conflicting forecast for next hurricane season el nino or la nina?
Cool neutral to La Niña. Based on the current model data and on historical data. Usually a La Niña or neutral follows an El Niño year.
an apology-
I made a few posts about 15 hours ago, during the shooting incident and the aftermath. They contained
incorrect information. I wanted to apologize to ya'll about that.

Peace n stuff, happy solstice month.
Aww, my fan club is back! :) Using Googled definitions no less.
Quoting 666. Naga5000:

Aww, my fan club is back! :) Using Googled definitions no less.

Merriam if you prefer then:
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

I come here for the weather comments but you seem to come here to bully people and raise the flag for whatever progressive socialist ideology you subscribe to.
Scott is a good American and fully entitled to his opinions, and I for one enjoy his comments.
Another view (perhaps). I am a gun toting, second amendment fanatic. I am just about always legally armed. I am trained and I keep myself proficient. In all the decades I've carried, I've had to pull my weapon twice but I've never had to fire it. In both instances, had I not been there and had I not been armed, someone would have been hurt or killed. Me pulling my weapon and shouting a few choice words deescalated the situation. One guy ran and I didn't shoot him in the back and the other guy dropped his weapon and was arrested 10 minutes later when law enforcement finally arrived. All of this to say not all gun nuts are really nuts. I am not a member of the NRA because I don't agree with them. Responsible gun ownership is a right (as opposed to driving, marrying, opening a business and all other things that are applied for) that requires no registration, no permission, and no apologies. I do believe, however, background checks are a reasonable precaution to ensure those who wish to own are lawful in doing so and the gun show loophole should be abolished immediately. There's nothing wrong with checks and balances. Gun ownership and legal carrying of such is a right that shall not be infringed upon but it must be carried out responsibly. My $.02...
Quoting 667. civEngineer:


Merriam if you prefer then:
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

I come here for the weather comments but you seem to come here to bully people and raise the flag for whatever progressive socialist ideology you subscribe to.
Scott is a good American and fully entitled to his opinions, and I for one enjoy his comments.


:)
Quoting 668. NttyGrtty:

Another view (perhaps). I am a gun toting, second amendment fanatic. I am just about always legally armed. I am trained and I keep myself proficient. In all the decades I've carried, I've had to pull my weapon twice but I've never had to fire it. In both instances, had I not been there and had I not been armed, someone would have been hurt or killed. Me pulling my weapon and shouting a few choice words deescalated the situation. One guy ran and I didn't shoot him in the back and the other guy dropped his weapon and was arrested 10 minutes later when law enforcement finally arrived. All of this to say not all gun nuts are really nuts. I am not a member of the NRA because I don't agree with them. Responsible gun ownership is a right (as opposed to driving, marrying, opening a business and all other things that are applied for) that requires no registration, no permission, and no apologies. I do believe, however, background checks are a reasonable precaution to ensure those who wish to own are lawful in doing so and the gun show loophole should be abolished immediately. There's nothing wrong with checks and balances. Gun ownership and legal carrying of such is a right that shall not be infringed upon but it must be carried out responsibly. My $.02...
It is so important, anything I typed would not even scratch the surface. If Americans could not have guns, the repercussions would be devastating. Especially the way things are today..My .02
Quoting 670. hydrus:

It is so important, anything I typed would not even scratch the surface. If Americans could not have guns, the repercussions would be devastating. Especially the way things are today..My .02


I haven’t seen many people suggesting that extreme of a measure. Not only is it impractical, but it’s unconstitutional.
Quoting 667. civEngineer:


Merriam if you prefer then:
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

I come here for the weather comments but you seem to come here to bully people and raise the flag for whatever progressive socialist ideology you subscribe to.
Scott is a good American and fully entitled to his opinions, and I for one enjoy his comments.

Looks the Third Reich just got called a 'progressive socialist ideology' because it shared the usual European stringent gun laws...
Quoting 670. hydrus:

It is so important, anything I typed would not even scratch the surface. If Americans could not have guns, the repercussions would be devastating. Especially the way things are today..My .02

This truly is religion.
Quoting 673. cRRKampen:


This truly is religion.
I wont discuss it here. It is not religion.
I'm pretty sure my irony detector broke. "You're too intolerant of intolerance, unamerican socialist pig" sent it right over the edge.

In other news it looks like a start to a rainy few days in Orlando. Currently overcast and a cool 70.
Quoting 657. Grothar:


AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MIAMI FL
947 AM EST THU DEC 3 2015

.UPDATE...
PATCHY FOG DEVELOPED THIS MORNING OVER AREAS NORTH OF
I-75...INCLUDING WESTERNMOST PORTIONS OF FORT LAUDERDALE AND WEST
PALM BEACH METROS. THIS FOG HAS DISSIPATED AND IS UNLIKELY TO
REDEVELOP TONIGHT DUE TO WIDESPREAD RAINFALL ANTICIPATED. 12Z RAOB
REVEALED ANOMALOUSLY MOIST ATMOSPHERE ...PWATS WELL IN EXCESS OF 2
INCHES AND NEARLY SATURATED ENVIRONMENT BELOW 400 MB. THINK THIS
AMOUNT OF SATURATION SHOULD KEEP CLOUDCOVER IN PLACE...SUPPRESS
WHAT OTHERWISE COULD BE A QUITE UNSTABLE AIRMASS. WITH LLVL SHEAR
FAIRLY IMPRESSIVE...CANT RULE OUT GUSTY WINDS AND PERHAPS EVEN
FUNNEL CLOUDS/WATERSPOUTS FOR AREAS SOUTH OF THE FRONT...POSSIBLY
EVEN IN THE HEAVIER SHOWERS. CDFNT IS DIFFICULT TO PINPOINT...BUT
APPEARS TO BE APPROACHING THE LAKE...AND IS EXPECTED TO MOVE ONLY
VERY SLOWLY SOUTHWARD TODAY.

RAINFALL OVERNIGHT INCLUDED LOCALIZED AMOUNTS OF OVER 4 INCHES
OVER PORTIONS OF MIAMI-DADE COUNTY...WITH 2-3 INCHES OCCURRING IN
PARTS OF PALM BEACH COUNTY. HIRES MODELS SUGGEST HEAVIEST RAINFALL
OVER NEXT 6-12 HOURS WILL BE ROUGHLY ALONG NAPLES TO WEST PALM
BEACH CORRIDOR...WHICH WOULD KEEP TODAYS HEAVY RAINFALL SEPARATE
FROM AREAS TO THE SOUTH AND EAST THAT HAVE ALREADY EXPERIENCED
SIGNIFICANT RAINFALL. THIS COMBINED WITH UNCERTAINTIES IN EXTENT
OF CONVERGENCE AND LIFT /DUE TO CLOUDCOVER/ IS REASON FLOOD WATCH
HAS NOT BE ISSUED. THE POTENTIAL THAT A WATCH WILL BE NEEDED
REMAINS AND WILL CONTINUE TO RE-EVALUATE.
Quoting 635. washingtonian115:

I have a small gun but I don't get the urge to go out and shoot people.The people in behind these shootings were mentally deranged citizens.Have more background checks but don't take away from law abiding citizens.
be always aware the Martial is never far my dear


Martial law is an extreme and rare measure used to control society during war or periods of civil unrest or chaos.
Quoting 668. NttyGrtty:

Responsible gun ownership is a right (as opposed to driving, marrying, opening a business and all other things that are applied for) that requires no registration, no permission, and no apologies.
You're a Second Amendment fanatic? That's cool. I myself am a fanatic of the Declaration of Independence, especially that part that talks about my divine and inalienable right to life and the pursuit of happiness, rights that can be taken away by a couple of gun-slinging Rambo wannabes swapping freedom projectiles at each other down at the Piggly-Wiggly some afternoon.

Anyway, I look at it like this: anyone who truly and deeply believes that the repeated mass shooting of innocent people is a small price to pay to maintain their freedom to purchase military-grade assault weaponry and 100-round magazines, they should be all means stand and loudly proclaim, "I'm alright with it!"
Quoting 680. Neapolitan:

You're a Second Amendment fanatic? That's cool. I myself am a fanatic of the Declaration of Independence, especially that part that talks about my divine and inalienable right to life and the pursuit of happiness, rights that can be taken away by a couple of gun-slinging Rambo wannabes swapping freedom projectiles at each other down at the Piggly-Wiggly some afternoon.

Anyway, I look at it like this: anyone who truly and deeply believes that the repeated mass shooting of innocent people is a small price to pay to maintain their freedom to purchase military-grade assault weaponry and 100-round magazines, they should be all means stand and loudly proclaim, "I'm alright with it!"


The Declaration of Independence is not a governing document. The fact is the 2nd amendment gives citizens of this country a right to own guns.
Quoting 680. Neapolitan:
You're a Second Amendment fanatic? That's cool. I myself am a fanatic of the Declaration of Independence, especially that part that talks about my divine and inalienable right to life and the pursuit of happiness, rights that can be taken away by a couple of gun-slinging Rambo wannabes swapping freedom projectiles at each other down at the Piggly-Wiggly some afternoon.

Anyway, I look at it like this: anyone who truly and deeply believes that the repeated mass shooting of innocent people is a small price to pay to maintain their freedom to purchase military-grade assault weaponry and 100-round magazines, they should be all means stand and loudly proclaim, "I'm alright with it!"


Partially quoted me then added your own words to it. You just can't help yourself can you? "Gun-slinging Rambo wannbes swapping freedom projectiles at each other down at the Piggly-Wiggly some afternoon" is a great line but has nothing to do with my post. Nor did I mention military-grade assault weaponry and 100-round magazines (Well done, by the way. Most Anti-gun nuts call then 'clips'). You are blaming the repeated mass shootings on the guns. A gun is just a tool. As I stated down lower in my post (the part you neglected to quote), I'm alight with background checks and eliminating the gun show loophole and that, I believe, will go a long way toward keeping guns out of the hands of those that shoot massively...
Quoting 674. hydrus:

I wont discuss it here. It is not religion.

It is. There are no arguments, just gibberish presented as such.
"If Americans could not have guns, the repercussions would be devastating." is total nonsense. Unless getting rid of the culture of daily mass shootings would be 'devastating'. Unless the precipitious drop in Australian gun violence and related fatalities following regulations there would be 'devastating'. Unless Holland is a country of devastation right now and this since over a century.

Why not discuss here and now why regulation would be 'devastating'? Where would that 'devastation' come from? Your govt, you think? Better have the electorate choose decent politicians then.
Quoting 682. NttyGrtty:



...A gun is just a tool..

Yes. A tool that has only a single purpose and is terrifyingly easy to carry and use. People with that tool are lethally dangerous. Toddlers with those tools kill galore. There are sayings, like 'don't bring a knife to a gunfight' :)

Quoting 670. hydrus:

It is so important, anything I typed would not even scratch the surface. If Americans could not have guns, the repercussions would be devastating. Especially the way things are today..My .02
as long as a protocol of steps are assured in the proper manner no issues but you will always have those that do not wish to comply those are the flags
Quoting 681. tampabaymatt:



The Declaration of Independence is not a governing document. The fact is the 2nd amendment gives citizens of this country a right to own guns.
Oh, I see. The Declaration is not "a governing document", so let's dismiss entirely that part about all men being created equal, and that other part about how we are all endowed "...with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". You know, because it's not "a governing document."

So: America is no longer a sovereign nation, and is once again under the rein of and beholden to the British Monarchy--God Save The Queen!--let's move on. Fine. Now, since we're getting all technical with documents and such, what about that "well-regulated" part of the Second Amendment? Do you agree with that?
Quoting 684. cRRKampen:

Yes. A tool that has only a single purpose and is terrifyingly easy to carry and use. People with that tool are lethally dangerous. Toddlers with those tools kill galore. There are sayings, like 'don't bring a knife to a gunfight' :)



...and what single purpose would that be?
Picking up on other news, maybe we can forget the Somerset Floods of two years ago (we need to concentrate on one single disaster at a time in order to keep out any suspicion of CC, it just becomes harder every year...).
Same pattern back on the map.
Record zonal mean speed at 10 hPa, so potency is even better.
The only thing not new is the temps in Holland which are constantly near the upper records, made for the #2 warmest November (record Nov is completely antique: 1994) and making for a record hot first December 10-day period.

Tampabaymatt, I'm sorry for the confrontational and petty address with you. In this time, we do need unity, positivity, and answers to the problem; both ISIS and climate change. I'll keep my focus on these forward looking ideals. We must come together as a nation and defeat ISIS. This will free up the world to better finance an answer to AGW. Warmer it gets the more it's going to cost to fix all this. We need world unity, the price tag for defeating ISIS and relocate half the people Syria and millions and millions elsewhere in the region and Northern Africa is going to cost hundreds of billions to really get it done and done quickly and is not going to be pretty. Only way it works is to have a world army occupation force and would take hundreds and hundreds of thousands of troops to be done right. Or we send in twenty thousand to Mosul and ISIS fades back into the populace and it becomes a convoluted mess. We've seen that fight and we've already won them before, it's not maintainable, we can do it as a united world body. France, England, Russia, France, USA, and remember China wants in on this fight. Group finance, with Gulf state support. Iran plays a part, they are Iraq's biggest ally and already contributing. How's that for a positive thought. Thanks Tampabaymatt, for real.
Quoting 682. NttyGrtty:

You are blaming the repeated mass shootings on the guns.
Why, yes. Yes I am. Do you believe graphs like the one below show that somehow Americans are just more crazy than the rest of the world? More prone to extreme violence? Or do you think there's a small chance that having far more guns per capita than any other nation on the planet is causing us problems?



Source: 2013 Deaths as a result of assault by firearms
Quoting 687. NttyGrtty:



...and what single purpose would that be?

Killing.

Of course, there are some small cal. toy guns around based on the real thing (hunt/biathon .22 rifle; killing people/Olympic match pistols e.g. Hmmerli 232/.22, Unique Des 69 left-handed for me).

I was going to ridicule you, 'wtf!! do you not know what a gun is?' but the religious force is strong in some on this topic.
Quoting 690. Neapolitan:

Why, yes. Yes I am. Do you believe graphs like the one below show that somehow Americans are just more crazy than the rest of the world? More prone to extreme violence? Or do you think there's a small chance that having far more guns per capita than any other nation on the planet is causing us problems?



Source: 2013 Deaths as a result of assault by firearms

This is a great graph, but beware: try to take results per capita. Then the sum of European countries would tally about 1500 per year (I think I am gracious, really), resulting in about a factor fifteen per head of the US.
Quoting 686. Neapolitan:

Oh, I see. The Declaration is not "a governing document", so let's dismiss entirely that part about all men being created equal, and that other part about how we are all endowed "...with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". You know, because it's not "a governing document."

So: America is no longer a sovereign nation, and is once again under the rein of and beholden to the British Monarchy--God Save The Queen!--let's move on. Fine. Now, since we're getting all technical with documents and such, what about that "well-regulated" part of the Second Amendment? Do you agree with that?


I never said we should dismiss it entirely, that is a pretty extreme conclusion to draw from my post. And, it's not a governing document. So, you can put "governing document" in quotes all you want, but that doesn't change the fact. The Constitution is a governing document, and part of that document includes an amendment providing for citizens to bear arms.

The conclusions you jump to are illogical and foolish. Pointing out the fact that the Declaration of Independence is not a governing document does not imply it's worthless and the country should be under British control.
Quoting 648. NttyGrtty:

Morn'n everyone. Coffee? Maybe with a little vodka in it for some?...
It would be great to have a cyclone to deal with instead of this mess...

Quoting 690. Neapolitan:
Why, yes. Yes I am. Do you believe graphs like the one below show that somehow Americans are just more crazy than the rest of the world? More prone to extreme violence? Or do you think there's a small chance that having far more guns per capita than any other nation on the planet is causing us problems?



Source: 2013 Deaths as a result of assault by firearms


I do believe that is a cherry picked graph. Per capita guns deaths in the US are ever so slightly below per capita automobile deaths. To conclude a linear relationship from simply the amount of guns is no more sound that concluding a linear relationship from simply the amount of automobiles...
Quoting 694. JNFlori30A:
It would be great to have a cyclone to deal with instead of this mess...



Yeah, and now I done gone and put my toe in the water. Should stayed on the shore with the coffee...and the vodka
Quoting 691. cRRKampen:

Killing.

Of course, there are some small cal. toy guns around based on the real thing (hunt/biathon .22 rifle; killing people/Olympic match pistols e.g. H�mmerli 232/.22, Unique Des 69 left-handed for me).

I was going to ridicule you, 'wtf!! do you not know what a gun is?' but the religious force is strong in some on this topic.


Oh , don't sell yourself short. You are ridiculing more than just me...

Low spinning up off the Northern California coast with negative tilting jet and a sharp front. Sunny this AM in the SF Bay Area, but dark clouds to the northwest with t-storm tops visible catching the morning sun. SE wind starting to gust.
Quoting 680. Neapolitan:

You're a Second Amendment fanatic? That's cool. I myself am a fanatic of the Declaration of Independence, especially that part that talks about my divine and inalienable right to life and the pursuit of happiness, rights that can be taken away by a couple of gun-slinging Rambo wannabes swapping freedom projectiles at each other down at the Piggly-Wiggly some afternoon.

Anyway, I look at it like this: anyone who truly and deeply believes that the repeated mass shooting of innocent people is a small price to pay to maintain their freedom to purchase military-grade assault weaponry and 100-round magazines, they should be all means stand and loudly proclaim, "I'm alright with it!"


i'm a fanatic of "not getting shot by some nut who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a gun", myself.
DO-NOTHING BRIGADE
A sneaky new rhetoric is holding back progress on climate change


“One of the enemies we will be fighting at this conference is cynicism,” President Obama warned delegates at the Paris climate change conference on Monday. He was right—but today the big danger is not climate-change deniers but those who serve up cynicism in insidious new forms.

The environmental movement is now confronting people who admit the reality of climate change but scoff at attempts to combat it. They rely on a rhetorical tactic of raising trumped-up or downright inaccurate concerns about environmental solutions, which serves to stymie progress. These “green herrings” are gobbled up by many an op-ed page and television broadcaster—and that’s a huge problem that has to stop.

One common green herring, for example, is the argument that US efforts to address climate change are pointless unless China, the world’s largest emitter of greenhouse gases, steps up. After China’s President Xi Jinping and President Obama struck a deal to curb emissions late last year, political commentator Charles Krauthammer penned a Washington Post editorial acknowledging that “pumping increasing amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere cannot be a good thing.” But he went on to argue that the U.S.-China climate deal was “a fraud” because it didn’t require enough of China.

On the face of it, this argument seems logical. But this battle cry for inaction cedes climate-change leadership to the economic planners of China. It relies on a profoundly nihilistic sentiment: “We shouldn’t help unless they help first.”

Also common are attacks on the economics or environmental shortcomings of technologies that address the long-term challenges of greenhouse gas emissions. Last week the Washington Post’s Moscow bureau chief served up one such green herring, in the form of an article called “The Dirty Secret Behind Electric Vehicles.” I had published a book on electric vehicles in January, and wondered what the author might have found.

The dirty secret, it turned out, was not much of a secret at all: Some electric cars run on coal. This is about as newsworthy as the sunrise. And the environmental problem lies not with electric cars themselves, but with relying on coal as a source of energy. But the article’s title, logic and tone—including such sentiments as, “Amid the mixed picture for electric cars, some environmentalists say that money spent on them might be better directed elsewhere”—made it seem as if electric cars were to blame.

Or take the example of Bjorn Lomborg, a visiting professor at Copenhagen Business School and self-styled “skeptical environmentalist.” Skepticism sounds good in theory. But in practice it seems that his skepticism almost always overrides his environmental concern. In February, Lomborg argued that the data on climate change are “actually encouraging.” But his specialty lies in cherry-picking data, such as the extent of Antarctic sea ice, that misleads people who aren’t experts.

Historically, people tend to do quite poorly when it comes to seeing past such ruses. In the book Merchants of Doubt, historians Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway detail how a small cabal of free-market fundamentalists, funded in part by the fossil fuel industry, manipulated the media into giving equal time to fringe scientific theories. Thus inaccurate information spread about environmental and health issues ranging from the link between cigarettes and cancer to the dangers of global warming and acid rain. Conveniently, the naysayers’ policy prescriptions tended to be to nothing—the cheapest and easiest to most problems in the short-term.
Quoting 683. cRRKampen:


It is. There are no arguments, just gibberish presented as such.
"If Americans could not have guns, the repercussions would be devastating." is total nonsense. Unless getting rid of the culture of daily mass shootings would be 'devastating'. Unless the precipitious drop in Australian gun violence and related fatalities following regulations there would be 'devastating'. Unless Holland is a country of devastation right now and this since over a century.

Why not discuss here and now why regulation would be 'devastating'? Where would that 'devastation' come from? Your govt, you think? Better have the electorate choose decent politicians then.


Homer: Lisa, if I didn't have this gun, the king of England could walk right in here and start pushing you around. D'you want that? Huh? Do ya?
Quoting 695. NttyGrtty:



I do believe that is a cherry picked graph. Per capita guns deaths in the US are ever so slightly below per capita automobile deaths. To conclude a linear relationship from simply the amount of guns is no more sound that concluding a linear relationship from simply the amount of automobiles...
Cherry-picked? Yeah, that probably explains it. The US is the only nation on the planet with more guns than people, but that likely has nothing to do with it, as you said.
JeffMasters has created a new entry.
Quoting 682. NttyGrtty:



A gun is just a tool.


so's an automobile. we regulate and license their use because despite being a useful tool, the misuse of them by irresponsible people can have horrific, death-and-mayhem-inducing consequences.

we're getting to a point here where the consequences of easy access to firearms are becoming too common and too horrible to ignore.
Quoting 702. lopab2783:

Islam breeds these types of individuals always has and most likely always will.


i guess that means christianity breeds guys like robert dear?
Quoting 693. tampabaymatt:



I never said we should dismiss it entirely, that is a pretty extreme conclusion to draw from my post. And, it's not a governing document. So, you can put "governing document" in quotes all you want, but that doesn't change the fact. The Constitution is a governing document, and part of that document includes an amendment providing for citizens to bear arms.

The conclusions you jump to are illogical and foolish. Pointing out the fact that the Declaration of Independence is not a governing document does not imply it's worthless and the country should be under British control.
The founders of the USA made plain that the only way that a country could exist which would afford its citizens freedom and liberty was if that country's populace (and those who governed it) lived according to a set of common morals. We are seeing the results of our rapid evolution away from those morals. The people who risked the lives of their families to set up a more perfect union are now deemed foolish if not being outright demonized... Our shining city on a hill continues to dim, and in the midst of all of the growing global crisis, now is not a good time. We need solutions, we need creativity, we need to be generous with those in need, we need to be able to protect the vulnerable, we need better weather forecasting! Are we nurturing an environment that produces the motivation for any of this? Something is very wrong with this picture and in my opinion we may need to go back to go forward.
(soap box mode: disabled)
Quoting 683. cRRKampen:


It is. There are no arguments, just gibberish presented as such.
"If Americans could not have guns, the repercussions would be devastating." is total nonsense. Unless getting rid of the culture of daily mass shootings would be 'devastating'. Unless the precipitious drop in Australian gun violence and related fatalities following regulations there would be 'devastating'. Unless Holland is a country of devastation right now and this since over a century.

Why not discuss here and now why regulation would be 'devastating'? Where would that 'devastation' come from? Your govt, you think? Better have the electorate choose decent politicians then.
There's not a 1:1 relationship between gun ownership per capita and gun crime. According to a list in the Washington Post, and accumulated from various sources, including the UN, countries among the top 10 in gun ownership per capita are Switzerland, Finland, Uraquay, and Sweden. All these countries have relatively low rates of homicides by gun per 100,000 people. The United States has a rate of gun homicides per 100,000 between that of Costa Rica and Argentina, both countries with strict gun control laws. Norway, number 11 out of 178 in gun ownership, has one of the lowest rates of gun homicide in Europe.

In your own country, the period from 1940-1945 saw the accumulation of as many weapons as possible for good reason, since the Dutch Resistance used them to kill as many Germans as possible. I don't think there are many Dutch citizens who were alive in 1940 who think the Netherlands had all the guns they needed for the next five years. In a perfect world, we'd have no need for guns, and there'd be no tyranny. We live in an imperfect world, and that has to be our starting point if we are to accomplish anything.

There will probably be a new blog as soon as I post this and no one will ever see it.
Quoting 706. schwankmoe:



i guess that means christianity breeds guys like robert dear?

As I stated below the cloak of religion is used to comit evil. To comit evil crazies more often then not need a reason to justify there actions...... 100 virgins, going to heaven, religious crusade theres no difference whatever they can believe to justify there actions. So your right since Christian Robert dear used religion to justify his terrorism. We should be politically correct to the Nation of Islam. Unfortunately the Pesident has the same view point.
Quoting 709. lopab2783:


As I stated below the cloak of religion is used to comit evil. To comit evil crazies more often then not need a reason to justify there actions...... 100 virgins, going to heaven, religious crusade theres no difference whatever they can believe to justify there actions. So your right since Christian Robert dear used religion to justify his terrorism. We should be politically correct to the Nation of Islam. Unfortunately the Pesident has the same view point.


every time some white christian dude shoots up a place people everywhere turn their heads and whistle a cheerful tune until the news cycle ends. if that ain't being 'politically correct to christianity' i don't know what is.
That video was a sight to see for sure. With the potential for the El Nino to power through for a while, as it starts to fade I wonder what type of effect it will have on next years season.
Quoting 708. sar2401:

There's not a 1:1 relationship between gun ownership per capita and gun crime. According to a list in the Washington Post, and accumulated from various sources, including the UN, countries among the top 10 in gun ownership per capita are Switzerland, Finland, Uraquay, and Sweden. All these countries have relatively low rates of homicides by gun per 100,000 people. The United States has a rate of gun homicides per 100,000 between that of Costa Rica and Argentina, both countries with strict gun control laws. Norway, number 11 out of 178 in gun ownership, has one of the lowest rates of gun homicide in Europe.

In your own country, the period from 1940-1945 saw the accumulation of as many weapons as possible for good reason, since the Dutch Resistance used them to kill as many Germans as possible. I don't think there are many Dutch citizens who were alive in 1940 who think the Netherlands had all the guns they needed for the next five years. In a perfect world, we'd have no need for guns, and there'd be no tyranny. We live in an imperfect world, and that has to be our starting point if we are to accomplish anything.

There will probably be a new blog as soon as I post this and no one will ever see it.
From the top of the chart to which you linked: "The United States has the highest gun ownership rate in the world and the highest per capita rate of firearm-related murders of all developed countries."

Everything else is just nonsense.
Quoting 708. sar2401:

There's not a 1:1 relationship between gun ownership per capita and gun crime. According to a list in the Washington Post, and accumulated from various sources, including the UN, countries among the top 10 in gun ownership per capita are Switzerland, Finland, Uraquay, and Sweden. All these countries have relatively low rates of homicides by gun per 100,000 people. The United States has a rate of gun homicides per 100,000 between that of Costa Rica and Argentina, both countries with strict gun control laws. Norway, number 11 out of 178 in gun ownership, has one of the lowest rates of gun homicide in Europe.

In your own country, the period from 1940-1945 saw the accumulation of as many weapons as possible for good reason, since the Dutch Resistance used them to kill as many Germans as possible. I don't think there are many Dutch citizens who were alive in 1940 who think the Netherlands had all the guns they needed for the next five years. In a perfect world, we'd have no need for guns, and there'd be no tyranny. We live in an imperfect world, and that has to be our starting point if we are to accomplish anything.

There will probably be a new blog as soon as I post this and no one will ever see it.

Well, this is (mostly) OT and might as well collect it here and do weather as we're supposed to in the new threads.

I'm aware the relationship is complex and I stressed before there is no single or independent cause to the horrific US stats on gun fatalities.

Norway, which did feature a white-'christian' attack of incredible proportions even for the US recently, is much less a country of pistol-bearing city dwellers with huge poor ethnic minorities and it certainly does not cling to arms in obsessive self-defense sentiments. A larger proportion of guns is hunting rifles, like Canada. Having been in Norway very often, totalling more than a year, all parts of the country but Kirkenes, I can assure you the number of guns in the streets is but a tiny fraction of even e.g. the Dutch number. Even today in cities like Narvik and Troms bicycles remain unlocked on the sidewalks, Norway is real peaceful. Oslo as a larger city less so, with fairly considerable deterioration since the 1990's.
Finland, Sweden - comparable. Don't think there are many guns in Stockholm or Gtheborg homes though. Otherwise they'd have at least a five-fold killing rate as now. Anyway, people don't bring them around on belt or in cars.

Switzerland is a unique multicultural mountain-valley dwelling mlee with no govt to speak of since governments were invented, so to speak, and it has the veritable people's army. The right to bear arms (but not just walk on the streets with them) comes explicitly with an obligation of national defense and a military training according to this.

"In your own country, the period from 1940-1945 saw the accumulation of as many weapons as possible for good reason, since the Dutch Resistance used them to kill as many Germans as possible."
There was more control and on average as little or even less guns around during the Occupation.
Armed, active resistance was tiny - couple thousand people on nine million.
After the February Strike in Feb 1941 the occupier had an easy job, sorry to say.
We don't have much of defenses here, cities and flat open land. The Partisans, however, hey!

Arms arrive the moment a population stands up. Self-made, and there are always sellers from abroad - this is a constant.
Look at Syria. Or the 10,000 Day War. Afghanistan and the Brits long ago till the USSR and now.

You should elect a government you don't have to fear. You are an ffing democracy, are you not. Do it. And get the guns off the streets.
Quoting 705. schwankmoe:



so's an automobile. we regulate and license their use because despite being a useful tool, the misuse of them by irresponsible people can have horrific, death-and-mayhem-inducing consequences.

we're getting to a point here where the consequences of easy access to firearms are becoming too common and too horrible to ignore.

So is an automobile.
Mainly gun-loving individuals (strangely but as noted before, I should be termed one) in Holland would coin the joke that black Suzuki Swifts should be banned, because of 2009 attack on the Dutch Royal Family
Quoting 701. schwankmoe:



Homer: Lisa, if I didn't have this gun, the king of England could walk right in here and start pushing you around. D'you want that? Huh? Do ya?

True story? Thanks :)