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Thingamabobbercane revisited

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 3:21 PM GMT on November 08, 2006

In my blog last week, I discussed Thingamabobbercane, an oddball cyclone which had characteristics of both a tropical cyclone and extratropical cyclone. I referred to it as a subtropical storm, which the Glossary of Meteorology defines thusly: A cyclone in tropical or subtropical latitudes (from the equator to about 50°N) that has characteristics of both tropical cyclones and midlatitude (or extratropical) cyclones. I gave the storm the name Thingamabobbercane because although it fit the technical definition of a subtropical storm, it didn't look like a typical subtropical storm. In particular, it formed at 41 N latitude over very cold waters of 16-18C, which is unusually cold and far north for a subtropical storm. Well, there are some meteorologists who disagree with my classification of the storm as subtropical, and believe Thingamabobbercane had virtually no tropical characteristics. A detailed day-by-day analysis posted on storm2k.org argues that Thingamabobbercane was an extratropical cyclone that underwent a process known as warm seclusion. In the seclusion process, a strong extratropical cyclone draws in warm air from the south, and latent heat of condensation from the cyclone's intense precipitation makes this air even warmer. This extra-warm air spirals into the center of the low and wraps around to the west side, where it is pinched off. As result, one has an isolated "warm core" center where deep convection builds and spiral banding can occur. However, unlike a hurricane, there is no eyewall, and no cloud-free eye created by sinking air (subsidence) in the center. The eye-like feature in an extratropical cyclone undergoing warm seclusion has upward moving air, and is merely the center where the surface winds spiral into. Spiral bands of convection can develop in the warm air near the center, mimicking the spiral bands of a hurricane. If these convective bands become intense, subsiding air on the flanks of the bands may create subsidence that warms and dries out the surrounding air, creating cloud-free regions near the center that may give it a more eye-like appearance. I flew through a number of these type of systems in 1989 as a member of the ERICA field program, and noted in my blog on the Blizzard of 2006 that the storm had a warm seclusion.

Figure 1. Image of Thingamabobbercane from Nov. 1, 2006, taken by NASA's Terra satellite. Image credit: NASA's Earth Observatory web page.

Steve Gregory, who did an awesome job blogging for wunderground.com during last year's unbelievable hurricane season, and has moved on to form his own hurricane consulting firm for business and industry, weatherinsite.net, had this to say about Thingamabobbercane:

I think that just having a transitory very low level warm core doesn't warrant a system being called sub-tropical. We clearly do not want to name a Nor'easter simply because it may form a low level warm core and 'eye' for a day or two. These super storms, or 'Perfect Storms', usually get their very own 'names' anyway ("The Great Blizzard of 78', etc). I think most everyone agrees that sub-tropical storms evolve out of old occluded extra-tropical lows that typically drift southward, completely isolate themselves from any frontal systems, and start becoming warm core--and usually over water above 20°C or warmer. And, they have life spans of many days as they transition, and they either remain sub-tropical or go all tropical with absolutely no cold or warm fronts even remotely close to them.

Whereas these briefly lived specimens, especially when at such high latitudes (over 40N) and truly cold water (15 deg is cold), never really fully detach from frontal boundaries, do the classic counterclockwise track motion under the upper level 500mb low embedded, all of which is embedded within full latitude long wave TROFS--and then transition quickly into non-tropical systems that generate new frontal based surface lows--just shouldn't be called sub-tropical. And especially if the warm core remains below 5,000 ft.

We need a new classification for these types of half breeds that get some of their energy through the latent heat release process etc, but are 'clearly' not what we think of as sub-tropical storms that will either stay that way, or go all tropical, or after a few days, get picked up by an upper TROF and pulled north where they transition back to a fully non-tropical low.

And here is what Senior Hurricane Specialist James Franklin from the National Hurricane Center had to say about the system in an email I received:

The system was of frontal origin, that much is clear. But I believe the frontal structure was eventually lost (no way to know for sure). The convective structure resembled a tropical, rather than subtropical cyclone, and the radius of maximum winds (based on QuikSCAT) was very close to the center, also more typical of tropical cyclones. It was, for most of its existence, under an upper low, typical of subtropical cyclones. However, it was developing a modest mid to upper lever warm core, moving toward tropical structure. So structurally, on balance, it was more tropical than subtropical.

However - it was over sub 18C water, and part of the definition of a tropical cyclone is that it originates over tropical or subtropical waters. This one didn't, so it's not a tropical cyclone by our operational definition, even though it had some of the characteristics of one.

Our classification system is a convenience for man, but Nature is not the slightest bit interested in our classifications of cyclones. There is a complete spectrum of storms between extratropical and tropical. There are cyclones that have similarities to tropical cyclones in structure - even share some of their energetics, polar lows are an example of such a beast, and maybe it is unfair to exclude them based on their location of origin. I, however, don't sense a groundswell of opinion to strike the "originates over tropical or subtropical waters" from our definition. It has, on the whole, served us well.

So, take your pick of these ideas on what Thingamabobbercane was. We'll never know for sure, since there were no direct measurements of its structure by research aircraft. It will remain as a mysterious and beautiful example of the endless variety of weather on our planet.

There is nothing going on in the tropical Atlantic today, nor is there forecast to be any activity over the next six days. While this remains true, I will be posting blogs every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

Jeff Masters

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Lets bring back the Neutercane Label..thatll get the Met world buzzing..again.
Neutercane link ...Link
I will second that vote. We are not sure what the system is , so give it a vague, somewhat nondescriptive name.
the new classification should be called "Thingamabobbercane" then the name

i.e..... "Thingamabobbercane Annie"

or "Thingamabobbercane Bob"..... LOL

Thingamabobbercane sounds scary doesn't it! :)
Good afternoon,

Ive been working on my personal website for a couple of weeks now.This is my first try at something like this so your opinions are welcomed.Leave your thoughts in my guestbook.

PS!Stop by the 2005 hurricane season page and click on one of the images for names to appear.


Seattle Windstorm of EPIC Porportions This Sunday
Posted by: Italianoman, 9:43 PM EST on November 07, 2006

Hah, what a catchy title. Nonetheless, I went to a University of Washington meteorological discussion, and one topic discussed was a model run predicting a 972mb low-pressure to make landfall on southern Vancouver Island. That event, as previously predicted, would have been enough to produce high wind warnings for the entire west coast (especially the Puget Sound as winds funnel through the Olympics and the Cascades).

I returned and ran an even later run (GFSX: http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~ovens/loops/wxloop.cgi?mm5d2_x_slp+///3 )which now shows a landfalling 955mb intensifying extratropical cyclone, with a pressure difference between Bellingham and Portland of 21mb...or calculated winds of 105mph between those two points. Essentially, the most incredible windstorm in United States history. The Columbus Day Storm, for all of you weather buffs, had been filling for nearly an hour by the time it made landfall, and thus, its pressure was likely already into the 970mb range once it reached Vancouver.

Final words: The historical odds of this event are zero, as in, it appears meteorologically impossible. Obviously, extratropical cyclones have reached intensity in the sub 950mb category in the past, but never has one of such intensity been forecast to affect Puget Sound. So, take this idea with a cup of salt and realize that it probably won't happen. Either way, if the pressure is off by even 30mb in intensity, the winds will remain substantial. If the forecasted track is off, on the other hand, expect extremely high winds on the coast, and far less winds in the Puget Sound.

Expect mention of the situation tomorrow on the news, and now near the end of the NWS discussion. Leave comments, and discuss the situation.

dr m you have mail
Thank you for re-visiting Thingamobober...uh, TBC. I had shown the sat imagery of it to a few friends, and we had many of the same questions that you answered in this blog.
Simply put, the world around us can never be completely defined by man's titles. Nothing is ever black-and-white; here on Wunderground, we all must come to appreciate the beauty of gray.

Have a great day, ya'll!

it was an engineered storm...

open your eyes and take off the blinders...

its happeneing all the time

hurricane 23, tried to go to your link. kept getting blocked as a pop-up. is this suppose to happen?
Antiquated?!?!? - OK, I was in my twenties way back then; which would make me super-antiquated.

The info on both T'bob and neutercane were both quite interesting. Thank you.
18. Inyo
it feels good to think we humans can create or destroy storms, doesnt it? If that were the case, once we fixed our government, we would never have to worry about Katrinas, Colombus Day Storms, or great blzizards that paralize cities for days. The truth is, though, that we can't do a thing to these storms. The only way we might affect them is through alterations in the atmosphere, which may cause warming or cooling in some areas. If anything, these are just making the storms stronger.

We don't have control. sorry.
stormy3 the link works fine for me...It might be something with your pop-up blocker.I emailed you the link again.
I second Inyo

Heck we can't even repair the potholes in our roads let alone stop something like a hurricane which has the energy of several medium nuclear weapons. Mentioning nuclear weapons isn't it amazing (and kinda cool) that we are still using planes from the 50s (B-52)

Hey Star Trek is a t.v. show guys
hurricane 23, thanks! worked great that time.
hello TD 19E has now be come TS ROSA
oh are you call fools?
hmmm where have the trillions of black budget dollars gone in the last 30 years if we are using technology developed in the 1950's???

did ya ever stop and think MAYBE there are things out there that are secret...

to ridicule what you choose not to investigate and blow off is the definition of ignorance my friend
why bother... the minds of people on these blogs are closed tight... anything that messes with the mainstream mindset confuses to the point of delerium... the media has perfected the "dumbing down of the masses" enabling the greatest secrecy tool ever... ridicule.

imma start an open mind blog soon... so yall can research yourself.


here is a good start i guess for weather manipulation ideas
What would cause the earth to flip? North and "facing up in a gravitational field" have no correlation. If a part of the earth were significantly more dense than another part, it might be drawn sun-ward.
maybe it already is

Wouldn't that confound meterologists of the future - to have several hundred years of data - have seen, recorded & examined in minute detail every kind of upperlowermiddlehotwarmcoldicane and their tracks and then the axis shifts and they have to start all over again.
How fast are the sea levels going to rise with the projected polar ice melt? I am planning on cruising on my sailboat in a few years and just need to know when the Florida Keys will be completely under water......
Florida Keys Fishing
a meteorologist ... just like 99% of all scientists will just go by what their books say... unless one of their collegues convinces them otherwise

to be honest we dont know why earths magnetic feild is changing... it is too... why and what does that mean? look where the true magnetic north is on the map... it has shifted over 200 miles in the last 50 years???

where is all this talk scientists????

I know Dr Masters is just about to kill me soon so ill stop...

Don't even talk about the change with temperature of the solubility of gasses in water. Obviously changes in O2 levels can affect marine life, likewise for CO2 and marine plants, but where does the extra gas go? Darn y'all - enough with the GW. The sky isn't falling - it's expanding!
TD 15E should be a TS soon..from Dvorak

Date : 08 NOV 2006 Time : 201500 UTC
Lat : 14:00:11 N Lon : 104:34:52 W

CI# /Pressure/ Vmax
2.6 /1004.0mb/ 37.0kt

6hr-Avg T# 3hr-Avg T# Adj T# Raw T#
2.6 2.6 2.9 2.9
45. N3EG
I saw Thingamabobbercane move slighly westward when I first noticed it had that "fake eyewall"...it looked more impressive than some of those tropical blobs everyone rants about.

And here we go again..."These super storms, or 'Perfect Storms', usually get their very own 'names' anyway ("The Great Blizzard of 78', etc)." So we're stuck again with an anonymous Pacific storm.
19E looks slow, new convection starting in last frames. But that low W of it near 15W looks to be tightening up a little - will convection fire?
Buster, the earth will not "flip over" no matter how much ice melts at the north pole or how much accretes at the south pole..
19E is now listed as a noname. The one to the west is 95E. I don't know why it's only been on the navy back up site.
Posted By: cyclonebuster at 6:46 PM CST on November 08, 2006. (hide)
snowboy at 12:14 AM GMT on November 09, 2006.

Buster, the earth will not "flip over" no matter how much ice melts at the north pole or how much accretes at the south pole..

How do you know??

Do you think somebody at the South Pole falls off the Earth into space? LOL...
Ice at the South Pole does not make it point "down"; there is no such thing as up or down in space; you should know that (zero gravity).
The Earth's gravity only serves to hold it and everything on it together; if gravity suddenly ceased to exist, everything on the Earth would fly off into space (and the Earth itself would fly apart) because it rotates at ~1,000 mph at the Equator, slower near the poles.
A few billion tons of ice won't have any effect; the Earth weighs 5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons (that is over 5.9 trillion times more).
62. Inyo
the amount of energy it would take the earth to 'flip over' is immense. It would probably take something the size of Mars hitting the earth at great speed to make the axis alter that much. If that happens, the planet would liquefy and all life on Earth would be very, very dead anyway. Any rudimentary knowledge of physics or astronomy at all will blow thsi stuff out of the water.

People are getting confused because the MAGNETIC pole can sometimes shift 180 degrees... so that compasses would read North as being on the South Pole and visa versa. This has happened before and no one knows why. It could cause tons of problems with communications, cause animals to go extinct as they migrated the wrong way, etc, but it would not make the earth flip over.

The earth is like a big gyro, its spinning makes it very unlikely to alter its axis more than a few 'wobbles' which do affect climate.

HAARP, what makes you think i HAVENT investigated the theory that the government is controlling the weather? I have investigated it, and i think it is mostly stupid. Some cloud seeding does still occur in the Western mountains, but most of it stopped after a flash floodfrom a seeded storm killed a bunch of people many decades ago. There is als oa great issue with 'seeding shadows', aka, if a storm rains itself out over California, Arizona is getting screwed out of rain they need. So, seeding isn't a big thing anymore.

Sure, the gov't does all kinds of sneaky secret stuff. Sure, some of that money goes to shady stuff, like sending spies into our allied countries or designing big ol' weird weapons. Most of it probably goes into Haile Burton's pockets, if you ask me.

Also, most changes in the climate lately have been negative, not positive, which is the opposite of what the government would do if they controlled the weather. Why throw Montana and the Midwest into drought and pelt the Gulf Coast with hurricanes? Why cause floods along the west coast? Why cause an immense heat wave which virtually shut down the country this summer and used massive amounts of energy? What's the point of spending 6 trillion dollars to trigger El Nino and make Malibu flood again? I don't see any deliberate human design in any of this unless you think Osama Bin Laden has control over it or something... which is silly.
Here is more:

Earth's Weight (Mass): 5.972 sextillion (1,000 trillion) metric tons. That's 5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons! Actually, scientists prefer to refer to this measurement as the Earth's mass instead of weight since weight is the result of Earth's gravitational pull on another object. And the Earth cannot pull on itself! As the Earth orbits the Sun, it is weightless. If the Earth were placed on the Sun, it would weigh more than if it were placed on Jupiter, the largest planet in the solar system but much smaller than the sun. Yet, Earth (or any other object for that matter) would have the same mass regardless of where it is located.
Anyone have the link for the latest GFS run please?
67. Inyo
I cant believe anyone who claims they have rudimentary knowledge of physics and invented using tubes placed under the ocean to generate energy, would also believe in this ridiculous 'flipping earth' theory. This isnt surprising though since I've heard about the 'tunnels' many years ago, this isnt a new theory and he didnt invent it. supposedly some science station near Hawaii already uses them. It generates some electricity but can't be used to weaken hurricanes.
Cyclone, I sometimes wonder what you do for a living? Design tunnels?
Michael, what is the chance that something will develop off of this cold front that is now pushing off of the East Coast?

As far as severe weather there was a confirmed F1 tornado that touched down last night in Central Florida. Most families did not have enough time to evac, some of the condo's in the area are now condemmed because of the damage incurred.
74. Inyo
that article is idiotic. Even if the north pole immediately moved to Tampa, Florida, nothing would flash freeze. The north pole is cold beacuse the angle of the sun is so low... and it is dark for longer. But the pole's movement would no more 'flash freeze' a mammoth than the sun setting right now will flash freeze the city of Los Angeles. There is a huge amount of heat stored in the air, soil, and water, which is why it doesnt drop to -200 degrees when the sun sets (like it does on the moon). There is zero chance this could happen.

As for the huge flood, if there were giant 4000 foot tsunamis moving around, there would be evidence of it. lots... evidence in sediment cores in the ocean and wetlands and deltas. That evidence doesnt exist, beacuse it never happened. As for Noah's flood, doesnt the Bible say it was caused by 40 days and 40 nights of rain? If indeed this flood occurred and it was caused by the earth shifting its axes, youd think the bible would mention something about Noah being tossed across teh room and into the air, and all the trees falling over, and 500 mph winds, and whatever else would have happened. Nope! There are lots of cultures that have the flood legend, and it is possibly associated with glaciers melting at the end of the ice age.
76. Inyo
ah, you DO know about OTEC!

In any event, I am glad you are getting rid of weapons of mass destruction and doing usefull stuff and i do think that looking at any possible alternative energy source is good.. but its hard to pay much attention to you when you push ridiculous theories like this earth flop thing.
Democrats take the Senate with Virginia..partly Cloudy here.
True, it doesn't happen fast, & it doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Wobble
The next 10days to be a roller coaster of Temps.GFSx.....Link
About these warm seclusions mentioned by the Doc.
Is it just a "gulp" of warm air, or a steady supply? How can the feature/thunderstorms persist for so long without additional heat?
: Patrap you are rude

her is what he siad 2 STL he need 2 apologize

Sent by MichaelSTL at: 4:35 PM CST on November 08, 2006

I want to know what the heck these comments are supposed to mean and why you posted them. Also, I want you to apologize for these rude and untrue comments and delete them. You are the rudest person that I have ever met (I also emailed these comments to many of my friends and not all of them think highly of you, especially after they saw what you said about me; they know what I am really like)!

Posted By: Patrap at 10:37 AM CST on November 07, 2006.

A problem for you maybe.But I happen to agree with the Movies premise.Everythings relative my friend.You see the world thru rosy colored St Louis eyes from a Round of July T-storms.And try to compare it to National Disaster of unprecedented scale.That seems a lil narrow minded.If I may.And a tad ....sad.

Posted By: Patrap at 10:41 AM CST on November 07, 2006.

For what has Michael done to help his fellow Americans here?Cept beat down my posts like a lil Kid following a Jail Bird,blog to blog.Numbers & knowledge great things.But like religion..faith without works..is dead.Thats all I have today.

Posted By: Patrap at 12:23 PM CST on November 07, 2006.

To post a statement like that..in my house.A blog devoted to Veterans ..and Then run out and Ban me from your JB accuweather like site.Is typical of someone who hasnt a clue,To why we Blog.End of line..............................................
Never post a mans valed e-mail.Its bad form
I had to go back & re-read the original blog to see that the water was "relatively warm waters of about 59-61F (15-16C)".
Fox News?! common Cyclone you can do better than the dirty old elephant lover!
Buster - From the article you posted:

"seas rising from heat expansion"
That's a new one! At least the rock will expand too so we wont go under ;)
Patrap is a big fat LIAR! Anybody can see that what he posted is untrue!!!!!!! I ask for apologies and get THIS?! Who doe he think he is? Thank God he can't modify my commnets, even if they were in his blog (we used to be able to modify any comments in our blogs).
Patrap you need 2 stop
Post the whole link Guys.Semper Fi......and those people I contacted.Werent to pleased to see there addys linked to the free World.Or numbers..Yall have good evening.
We don't need no drama, but what the heck I'm no better!
"The Al Gore " link you posted was the inappropriate starting point MichaelSTL..So Id get an attorney first..then start writing all those apologies your going to need.
I don't know but I'd say you guys should at least try to work things out instead of bashing eachother. If that doesn't work, bash away!
LOPLOLOLOLOLOLO I'm scared!!!!! The only link I posted was this one!!!!!!!!!!

Just a message board, something that buster has posted himself countless times! In fact!!!! He posted the same thing himself right here!!!
: Patrap oh will you shut up
: Patrap NO you are the one that need 2 apologies am waiting
Who wants to take a bet of when it will rain at This weather station. No rain in 106 days no rain is likely. Sanna Anna winds are likely Tomorrow and next week.

I say it will go another 2 weeks with no rain.

Also I would like to note the Tropical Depression Nineteen-E Very interesting to see anything down there this time of year. This seams like a true El Nino feature.

Actually, it was 1900hurricane, but you can see that cyclonebuster originally posted it (1900 copied and pasted)! What is the big deal? It is on a million other sites, just Google cyclonebuster or cyclonekiller.
Boys .................you havent a clue.Enjoy tonight.
It's a fine line we draw, let It go guys.
Bad form still.
Note: First result; then click on "Show the last posts of this person"
Soo how you guys going to decorate your houses this year?
Patrap is the one that start this mass
Come on, why can't you just apologize and everything will be fine? I have asked you dozens of times... you just ban or ignore me and accuse me of doing horrible things.
Put up some lights and be happy!
Didnt bring it up friend.But my Character not be be put in Bad light by some land locked individual who goes to a mans blog to cause chaos and post Obcenites for my Kids to see and come tell me about.Marines dont kin to that.Parents dont.And to ask me to apoligise ..you wacked! St.Louis to get a Cat 20 before thatll happen. Admin will sort you guys out and that will be that.
On Masters blog. This is sad. Michael you should be ashamed of yourself!!
I don't care who started this mess, let It die and bury this hate In the ground.
Whats up Pat
You pulled the obcenity from my Blog or Aaron Did.But you failed to mention that to the free World..Howd it go?
You can see for yourself in cyclonebuster's blog.
19E is coming - BACK. That last tornado missed me by 5 miles here in E Central Fla, and with that moisture plume from 19E / El Nino, and the next storm, it gets to try again. Like I said a while back - Watchout in Feb/March - it could get ugly. (Disclaimer: this was not a wishcast)
03 stop
Michael you should be banned. I hope this is done.
i can see my powers are no use here i shall retire.
I'm not going to take sides on this!
Slight rukus in cyclonbusters blog yesterday..small spat with These two.The blog still up.But they posted there edited version heere I found out from Admin ..so here I am.Scroll down and read there edited version.And then check out Cyclonebusters Blog.Its all eazy .But these guys are trying to do a number on My Character and demanding apologies..LOL
Oh God you've unleashed the slumbering giant.
Please stop trying to make it worse!!!!

You know that I have said over and over to just stop it and make the right decision! All this over what? cyclonebuster's tunnels (and a link I posted to another board, I think)!
I need no apologie I now your character. It is one of compassion and honor and no one can dispute that that has really been accociated with you.
Micheal please lets not define things.. let them flow naturally
I think most of the time when somebody asks you to apologize on this blog, they're just trying to steal your pride.
What you mean whishcaster? lol
Guys - apologies are easy - I'll show you. My post where I referred to Cyclonebuster's tunnels as "Habitat for Barnacles" was obviously troll-like enough to get it removed - And I APOLOGISE> I was just eliciting a discussion & playing "devil's advocate".
This blog needs to be refreshed too much hate!
Im tired ,Im going to watch the daily show.Se ya sandcrab..Ive no time for these guys.Post in my Blog if ya need to talk to me.Ive never seen such idiocy.Gnight to all
Admin Notice When using Dr. Masters' blog, please refrain from posting material not relevant to the discussion of tropical weather, or the topic of the blog entry itself. Please do not engage in personal attacks or bickering. Material not conforming to these standards should be flagged as Spam and ignored
Cosidering your age accepted. Has the "Pineapple" exspress passed yet?
The dog loves me..LOLLink
Will chat with ya soon Pat have a good evening.
How was the WInd damage Invest before I forget sandcrab?...
1 Shed a fence several power poles and a few trees all in all not bad but a lot of street flooding.
Sometimes the old die young. Oh The Pineapple Express?! Gorget that It's colder than hello here!
Ok nite all just got in had a hazmat incident just got home about 9 so been a long day.
Nice ..storm was bad enough.
Nite crab,,Im retiring to the rack too..C-ya
By Crab!
By Pat! Now who's going to talk too me now?
Those wonderful bloggers that Never should go ..in a Jarheads head..LOL..The wonderbloggers.Gnight Wishcasterboy,You Okay in my Book.
Good nighty Pat.
hmm.. A Pineapple Express? never heard that before.
I'm on It!.... The Pineapple Express is a Pacific Ocean subtropical jet stream that brings warm moist air from Hawaii (where pineapples are grown) to the U.S. West Coast states of California, Oregon, Washington, Alaska, as well as the Canadian province of British Columbia.

Madden-Julian oscillation drives Pineapple Express.The conditions are often created by the Madden-Julian oscillation, an equatorial rainfall pattern which feeds its moisture into this pattern.

The combination of moisture-laden air, atmospheric dynamics, and orographic enhancement resulting from the passage of this air over the mountain ranges of the West Coast causes some of the most torrential rains to occur in the region. Many Pineapple Express events follow or occur simultaneously with major arctic troughs in the Northwestern United States, often leading to major snowmelt flooding with warm, tropical rains falling on frozen, snow laden ground. Examples of this are the December 1964 Pacific Northwest flood and the Willamette Valley Flood of 1996.

A recent Pineapple Express battered Southern California from January 7 through January 11, 2005. This storm was the biggest to hit Southern California since the El Nio of 1998. The storm caused mud slides and flooding, with one normally dry desert location near Morongo Valley receiving 7.64 inches (194 mm) of rain, and some locations on south and southwest-facing mountain slopes receiving spectacular totals: San Marcos Pass, in Santa Barbara County, received 24.57 inches (624 mm), and Opid's Camp in the San Gabriel Mountains of Los Angeles County was deluged with 31.61 inches (803 mm) of rain in the five day period.

The unusually intense rain storms that hit south-central Alaska in August of 2006 have been termed "Pineapple Express" rains locally.

The Puget Sound region from Olympia, WA to Vancouver, BC received several inches of rain per day in November 2006 from a Pineapple Express which caused massive flooding in all major regional rivers and mudslides which closed the mountain passes. Regional dams opened their spillways to 100% as they had reached full capacity due to rain and snowmelt. Officials referred to the storm system as "the worst in a decade" on November 8, 2006.

Hey busta what can I say, I'm human!
oh, I learned something new, haha
Humanitarianism is an informal ideology of practice, whereby people practice humane treatment and provide assistance to others.

Humanitarianism is based on a view that all human beings deserve respect and dignity and should be treated as such. Therefore, humanitarians work towards advancing the well-being of humanity as a whole. Humanitarianism is the antithesis of the "us vs. them" mentality that characterizes tribalism and ethnic nationalism. Humanitarians abhor slavery, violation of basic and human rights, and discrimination on the basis of features such as color of skin, religion, ancestry, place of birth, etc. Humanitarianism is embraced by movements and people across the political spectrum, and particularly (but not exclusively) by leftists.

Humanitarianism was probably most publicly seen in the social reforms of the late 1800s and early 1900s, following the economic turmoil of the Industrial Revolution in England. Many of the women in Great Britain who were involved with feminism during the 1900s also pushed humanitarianism. The atrocious hours and working conditions of children and unskilled laborers were made illegal by pressure on Parliament by humanitarians. The Factory Act of 1833 and the Factory Act of 1844 were some of the most significant humanitarian bills passed in Parliament following the Industrial Revolution.

oh no my comment sounds bad now after your's WishCaster.
Hades your the best your the best!
My political identity Is not In the book!
Partly Cloudy with scattered scud..68 degrees..LOL
Screenshot..LOL What a couple of Losers...screenshot..LOLOLOLOL
I don't see a screem shot.
wishboy her the screem shot
Uh... can you PLEASE stop it and forget about him...
I'm not going to take sides here guys. I think you're all great In different ways.
You all bring different points of view and uniqueness you our blog here.
nic try Patrap but i ban your 2nd ID BourbonRhett
The more and more you guys go at this, the more and more this starts to look like a farce!
Please look at my previous comment. Don't post that in Dr. Masters' blog.
It's all how a person preceives It Cyclone.
Were you typing to me Micheal?
Tazmanian; he keeps posting stuff that really shouldn't be posted here.
Good evening,

I just updated my website with a radar link page.Please stop by and leave your thoughts in my guest book if possible.thanks adrian

Seems like Northern Luzon may have to deal with a pretty significant system in there hands in the next few days.

Looking at the last few pages of this "FEATURED BLOG" now I remember why I stopped visting this site for so long. Disgusting that this is all the blog board can do is run everyone else down.
Yep, we have a near classic Pineapple Express moistur fetch coming into the Western United States. The Central & Eastern States are going to get a taste of it this weekend too. Especially the MS/TN/ and perhaps the OH Valley as well with a potential Severe Outbreak
Up and atum. To see the day ...in a weather way.
G morning to those here.
A nice Beach Morning Here...Link
Sunrise my Exit...Traffic heavy InboundLink
10day GFSx showing a SE Storm come Tues-Weds...Link
apparently someone has been smoking alot of the good stuff lately...stop ranting...lol...you arent scaring, worrying anyone... just wasting your time...lol

that was fun going back and reading all the posted comments...lol
Google eyes..LOL...
another dissenting voter..
..ticking away..the moments that make up a dull day..
Neutercane reloadedLink...

credit NOAA
Nov. 9, 2006 Despite delays caused by Hurricane Katrina, NOAA is on schedule to complete the first phase of an 800-acre barrier island project in Louisiana's Plaquemines Parish. In one of the largest island restoration projects ever done by NOAA, workers are dredging and performing major earth-moving activities on Chaland Island, to create beach and marsh habitat that will help protect Louisiana's coastal communities and infrastructure from the devastating effects of wind, waves and flooding. Bulldozer shaping soil that was pumped through the dredge pipeline from an offshore borrow site 5 miles offshore. When completed, beach and dune fill will repair two major tidal breaches formed by recent storms. Click here for full story
good morning everyone
Today is the monthly NOAA ENSO update...


El Nio conditions are likely to continue into early 2007.

Equatorial Pacific SST anomalies greater than +0.5C were observed in most of the equatorial Pacific, with anomalies exceeding +1.0C between 170E and 145W and between 130W and the South American coast (Fig. 1). The latest SST departures in the Nio regions are all near +1.0 (Fig. 2). Beginning in February the basin-wide upper ocean heat content increased, and since early April positive anomalies have been observed (Fig. 3). Since early July weaker-than-average low-level equatorial easterly winds have been observed across most of the equatorial Pacific. In October the Southern Oscillation Index (SOI) was negative for the sixth consecutive month. Collectively, these oceanic and atmospheric anomalies are consistent with the early stages of El Nio in the tropical Pacific.

Over the past several months most of the statistical and coupled model forecasts have trended towards warmer conditions in the tropical Pacific through the Northern Hemisphere winter. The latest NCEP climate forecast system (CFS) predictions indicate El Nio conditions for the remainder of 2006 and into the NH spring (SH fall) 2007 (Fig. 4).

More than two-thirds of the other statistical and coupled model predictions also indicate El Nio conditions during the same period (Fig. 5).

Typical El Nio effects are likely to develop over North America during the upcoming winter season, including warmer-than-average temperatures over western and central Canada, and over the western and northern United States, wetter-than-average conditions over portions of the U.S. Gulf Coast and Florida, and drier-than-average conditions in the Ohio Valley and the Pacific Northwest. Global effects that can be expected during November-March include drier-than-average conditions over most of Malaysia, Indonesia, some of the U.S.-affiliated islands in the tropical North Pacific, northern South America and southeastern Africa, and wetter-than-average conditions over equatorial East Africa, central South America (Uruguay, northeastern Argentina, and southern Brazil) and along the coasts of Ecuador and northern Peru.
Credit~ NOAA
199. emtkz
Slightly off topic and a little late.
Great site for real time weather information in terms of flooding and other disasters. Has links to many real time sites. I just happened upon this yesterday when checing out the flooding (minor) in my town last night.

Haarp..not sure what's out there, but never realized there was so much difference in what is said and what is done... in the place where most of the money goes, and all of it is printed.
Big blow up with Tropical Storm Rosa in the eastern pacific....

Here's a 24frame loop of Rosa showing the huge flare-up of thunderstorm activity.
Anyone have a good idea if anything will pick up whats left of Rosa or will it just stay out towards sea.

Last night in my local summery it said that a high preasue over the west could pick it up and there was a slight chance of thunderstorms over the Ca/NV border. However that could have changed by know.

The forecast track itself has taken a 20 or so shift right since yesterday morning.
205. emtkz
Here is what the storms did to us last night:

http://www.wunderground.com/wximage/viewsingleimage.html?mode=singleimage&handle=emtkz&number=6&alb um_id=5&thumbstart=0&gallery=VIPPICT#slideanchor

water came up another foot above what is pictured completely engulfing the parking lot as well as a development of houses behind the strip mall. Houses had varying degrees of water damage as much as 2 feet.
206. emtkz
Could this be the next thingamabobbercane?

This reminds me of the whole debate this past August over what is the definition of a planet. Pluto, well, it's a planet, but it isn't a Classic Planet because it doesn't meet our human definition of what a planet is. Doesn't really take anything away from Pluto...it was there long before we were poking our heads out of caves or climbing trees escaping wild beasts and it will probably be there long after we are but a memory...it is an interesting body in space to explore and add to our knowledge. The same thing goes for storms on our Big Blue Marble. We don't know everything there is to what makes these storms tick, but from every odd ball thingamabobbercane to the most intense hurricane, we gain that much more knowledge...it is just a quirk of our brains that force us to classify everything into neat little categories so we can better understand them....unfortunately, nature isn't always cooperative by coming in clearly defined classifications.
Here's the river forecasts & data from the NW. Some above flood stage there, click on the little triangles.

They certainly don't need more rain. That looks too cold core for a thingamabobbercane.
Issued at 18:00 UTC 9 Nov 2006
NAME TS 0620 CHEBI (0620)

PSTN 16.1N 128.6E FAIR

and to think this was 25 knots about a day ago.
Good afternoon all.

I have a question about the big storms in the Pacific Northwest. Are these remnants of past tropical cyclones from the south pacfic area?

Or anyone have like a 7 day satellite loop of the entire pacific? Any info is great, thanks
Check out this radar loop of the storm headed for the Northwest and Canada.

Love the UNYSIS site..ez to naviagate
214. Inyo
EMT, it just looks like a wicked cold-core storm to me. It doesnt diminish it any, they can have hurricane-force winds and low pressures. Is that the storm that one model showed developing into something like the Colombus Day storm? I do think the models have backed off since then.

Some of the recent GFS runs have been tending towards moving the jet stream south... good news for everyone involved since WA has been getting hammered lately, and southern California needs some rain to end the fire season. I have a feeling its going to be a particularly stormy winter on the west coast, if not a particularly cold one. With El Nino continuing to strengthen, I think the storm track will make its way south in the next month or two, and the storms will follow.

As for classifying storms and planets, that kind of problem is everywhere in science. I am a botanist and there are scrub oaks that live in california... they are different from one place to another... sharp leaves along the coast, curled leaves on certain rock types, bluish leaves on the desert edge, etc, etc. People sit and argue whether they should be 1 species, 3 species, 6 species, who knows? All we do know is that they all blend together and just can't be classified into simple 'species'. They call it a 'hybrid swarm' and i guess in a sense these storms are similar
Hey Inyo, what do you think the chances are of central/northern California seeing a storm the size that flooded Washington and Oregon this winter bsaed on what just recently happened and what you said about the jet falling south.

Hey all,

I just moved up here to Washington a few weeks ago from SoCal. Been pretty ugly the past week. I live in Arlington and we have the Stillaguamish River just to the north of us. I live on a hill though but I was looking to buy or rent a house in many of the areas that were flooded. Glad I decided against it.
217. N3EG
Hey, we get stuff that looks like this all the time.
nothing going on in the tropical atlantic today? this low is about to enter a very favorable shear and sst environment as well

Yo, forget about it!
not saying its going to develop but definitely something worth mentioning. not sure how interested i am in discussions on thingamabobbercanes, maybe thats just me
Rosa made an unexpected move N since yesterday. Her track has shifted right again & after watching the steering current through out the day..mainly the influnce from the high building over the Yucatan, beginning to think the chances it moves into Mexico is good.
CMC forecast - two more storms develop, 96E and another storm that has not started developing yet.
Good day Michael, Skyepony.

That model brings a very nasty storm system into my area.
Yeah, and I noticed that it tracks across half the country; such a powerful low at this time of the year can mean a huge tornado outbreak (like last November) if conditions are right.




What's your take on this Michael? Do you think this things going to pop or flop?

The CMC makes 95E look like a vampirecane.
Somebody posted a blog entry a few days ago, saying that the GFSX had a 955 mb low making landfall; it no longer shows this, but something significant is probably going to happen. Also, all of the storms in the Pacific NW are a little unusual because El Nino usually means drier than normal weather (and less storms).

How many times were the models actually able to predict the "Dooms Day Storm" before it happend?
I know, me and my sunglasses were just about ready to dig in for the long hall, when out of nowhere BAM! I see no light at the end of the tunnel.
I think it's more likely that Rosa will destroy 95E's chance than for 95E to suck the life out of Rosa and become a hurricane. bbl

What area of the NW are you at? I am up in Arlington. This looks like it could be pretty significant if it develops.
Hello all, From 11 N 61 E, I'm looking east I am, and seeing loads of ITCZ coming my way. By tomorow afternoon, looks like. Enough to spoil a mans weekend. Oh well..........
Posted By: XmasLightLover at 6:30 PM CST on November 09, 2006.

Why are michealstl and patrap posting here they should be banned

Don't try to cause trouble... Pat is the one who started it...
Posted By: silverstripes at 12:27 AM GMT on November 10, 2006.


What area of the NW are you at? I am up in Arlington. This looks like it could be pretty significant if it develops.

Vancouver WA or basically Portland OR. Do you have any good info on this thing?
Xmas, think before you speak dude, and if your just trying to cause trouble then go away.
241. ryang
hi pottery.
I'd hug you all If I could!
244. ryang
yes wishcasterboy
I'm flying high Tonight, how about you!?

Yeah, I'm here. Howzit Ryang, Wishcaster, STL, Skye, everybody OK ??Some hard rains on the maps east of me. Whats up with that then ?
hey guys

been away for several days now
not much to talk about with the season being over
AIG's Third-Quarter Profit Surges
By Liam Pleven
Word Count: 385 | Companies Featured in This Article: American International Group
Benefiting from a lack of significant losses from catastrophes, as well as from rising investments and swelling premium revenue, American International Group Inc. Thursday reported that profit more than doubled in the third quarter.
Reporting after the market closed, the New York-based insurance giant said that net income was $4.22 billion, or $1.61 per share, up from $1.75 billion, or $0.66 per share, in the same period a year ago.

Not a single hurricane has come ashore in ...

In the West Pacific:

Look familiar?
Kman, long time............
This is what.... the third monster?
God have mercy on the Philippines!
yeah pottery

I left the blog for a few days.
Not too sure what we all will talk about between now and next June
I saw the ENSO report todau saying that El Nino will be around until next spring. That means it will be gone by June 1st
How does this affect the 2007 season ??
so does anyone think the reinsurance market will do anything to bring premiums down or will they simply take the position that they are only recouping SOME of their losses from previous years ?
There are plenty of things to talk about Kman, you've just gotta be creative!
They didn't really say that it would be gone by June; they said that El Nino would continue through June; the forecasts only go out that far:

In fact, most models forecast a moderate El Nino through June/July/August (the last period on the right) and a few even indicate reintensification. El Ninos can last more than a year; a single El Nino lasted from 1991 to 1994.
258. ryang
hi kman
You may be right Wishcaster.
Maybe we can start predicting the 2007 season LOL
260. ryang
Rock on Michael!
hi ryang

how goes it
I saw an article today saying that GIANT snails from Africa were invading Barbados
What gives mon ?
Sounds like a bad "B" movie LMAO
Or maybe we could talk about other weather events?
264. ryang
pottery is right.That wave looks strong to the east.
From 1991 - 1994 did any hurricanes hit the US?
Kman, I think that nino/nina will not affect me down here too much regardless. Seems that in terms of wet tropical waves, the Sahara dust is the factor that will keep things reasonably wind and rain free for me, and probably for you too.
well Michael

If it does continue through the start of next season we could have a slow start and a bang for a finish !
Everytime somebody mentions bad movie, I think "The Blob".
Keep posting my Name..Guys..Just keep it up..LOL
270. ryang
Yes kman.Epecially in the st.george area.
Yes. Especially 1992.

El Nino does not necessarially mean that no hurricanes will hit, or no strong hurricanes will form; it can happen, but is much less likely.
Lifes too short to stay awake sleeping..Enjoy the weather.
hey the Blob was a classic, especially when it came out of the lake and absorbed some of those bad actors LOL
274. ryang
Posted By: mgreen91 at 1:15 AM GMT on November 10, 2006.

From 1991 - 1994 did any hurricanes hit the US?

Bob and Andrew.
276. ryang
kman check the directory of blogs and see your name.
the odd thing is that it was only in the last yr or two that all of a sudden the dust became a factor.
Where has it been all the prior yrs ??
278. ryang
Can anyone answer the question on my blog.
What are the chances of a cold snap is So Cal durning an El Nino year. I ask cause last winter there was a very cool pocket of air and moisture that came down in March.

I would love for that to happen a few times this season. However that only happends every 10 years or so I am not holding my breath.
Hurricane Emily almost made landfall in North Carilina.

nice of you to say hello !
El Nino may be the culprit:
During the period of August-September 2006, the tropical Atlantic basin manifested some conditions typical of an El Nio year. El Nio years typically have the following tropical Atlantic conditions:

1) stronger than normal 200 mb (~12 km) zonal winds (positive U)

2) dryer middle tropospheric moisture conditions (negative q specific humidity)

3) somewhat higher than average sea level pressure anomalies (positive SLPA)

4) somewhat higher than average sea surface temperature anomalies (positive SSTA)

Hey Pad, I didn't see you in the blaze of comments. Hows it going?
The 10day UNYSISLink GFSx ...a look see

are you saying that dust and el nino are associated ?
if so could dust be a predictor for the onset or strengthening of an el nino event ?
This year was very bad for us cat adjusters. If no storms hit in 2007 I will have to find another job.
hi there Pat

looks like the wave train is starting up
Sorry Pat

meant to say the "front" train
Micheal let me tell you, It's wet and freezing here! Theres a chance for cold rain all the way through my ten day forecast!
Hey yall..yes the waves continue I see.
well there is a wave heading for Pottery but in the NW Caribbean the fronts are moving in.
We had a couple already and it is cooling down significantly which is very nice
I think that Gray is saying that El Nino causes more dust (drier air). I am not sure about the relationship between dust and El Nino, in terms of dust being a predictor. Usually, the effects of El Nino are apparant in the Pacific before they affect the Atlantic (this was apparant in 2004 when only the end of the season was suppressed).
I'm barely even concerned about those waves, well at least this time of the year anyway.
Kman, the dust is more a factor now than it was because its getting worse. for the first time it is being factored in to research projects. But here it has been bad for 5 yrs, and noticeable for more than 10 !!!!!
Its getting attention as far north as Puerto Rico..........
More bad news for the Pacific NW (Nov 12-14):

well if el nino stretches into the first 3 months of the next season it will likely be suppressed like this one.
However, as we all know, it only takes one bad one.
Personally I can handle a few quiet years. Don't need a make over for my home any time soon
Pottery, meat your enemy!

No consern here either..but its always interesting to see the tropics and the patterns shifts this time of year.Mother nature always seems to find a new curve to toss seems.
Make it go away Michael. JUST KIDING!! I love this kind of weather!

With all the odd climate change things going on who really knows what is cause and effect anymore. It does seem however that the hurricane seasons have fallen into one of two categories recently : very destructive or relatively boring. Extremes are a bad sign
That's the keeling curve my friend!
Nice one Wishcaster. Also had a man here from Austria, says they get the dust there too, but comunication was tedious and I could not figure out what time of year it bothers them..
Austria? That's one long trip!
.and a couple of Yatchies from Cayman. Kosa. Said the dust is eating the aluminium on the boats.........
Now the oceans are turning acidic !
When will it end ??
yeah Pottery

insurance haven down there LOL
Evening all, Pat WU mail.
Hi there Crab
whats up ?
yeah, the Austrian is studying insects. He is in paradise here. Could not get him to stop photographing a 1 " long ant, till I showed him a legless lizard..........( looks like a snake, but isnt )
Not muck Kman how are ya this fine evening
I wonder if it is possible to dump alkali into the oceans to neutralize the acidic CO2?
1 inch ants and legless lizards ??
Did someone leave some nuclear material out or something LOL
Kman, just a lot of early evening fog and nice weather at this point. A front is due to move through Sat. but it is a weak one.
Feeding time!

we are all doing just fine even though initially I wondered what we would talk about with the season being over !
Before I knew it we had several threads going
This is a great blog ( even with no storms about )!
Whishcaster, you or the sharks.lol
where are you ?
Evening sandcrab,was on phone.Wu mail back.
Kman< Mississippi gulf coast. Been in the Caymens a lot I use to be a PADI Instructor love the waters there.
Geeezzz Kman. Thanks alot. Just when I thought I would go to the beach tomorow.......Acid seawater.
Wish I still had all my U.S.Divers stuff.Sold it years ago.Miss being under.
Whats up Pat good to see ya on tonight.
323. ryang
Chicken again..Im going to grow feathers.But its tasty.LOL
I am a Master Diver so I still have my gear just dont teach any more.
Yardbird the staple of life.lol
Dont need to leave the nuclear stuff about anymore. Just go outside... heheheheh
Buy it frozen do not raise at home. It is subseptaple to HMV5
Just wondering if anyone knows why the NWS is going to the extreme in their marine forcasts. T hey are giving 17 to 21' seas inshore and the most wind offshore is no more than 30 off the coast of maine.
Could that low in the atlantic devlop into anything?
patrap, Tobago is famous for its dive with the Manta rays. Let me know when you are coming.
Knew I wouldn't get answered. I wll fade back into the shadows.
Will do pottery,Manta rays..big Graceful sea forms for sure

did you ever work here or just visit ?
I am trying to do some re-scheduling myself but still working on it will know by mid week next week.
I worked there Kman but it was short and sporatic with cruise lines. I never could live there
You guys see anythung in that wave east of the Islands on the equator?Looks to be loads of rain, and very low shear.........

Too far South and too late in the year.
maybe a little rain from the Northern edge of it but thats about all is my guess
Looks like another severe event next Tues for us..the GFSx showsLink
Good night all,

Weather was great here today - sunny clear skies with few clouds and relatively light breezes. REally this is typical late November early December weather here, which suggests to me that we haven't much left to expect of the tropics. I suppose now we have to turn our eyes to the NW as the source of the weather disturbances that will influence our weather patterns. Typical winter.
Kman, need anyone with a lot of diving and sailing and Emergency Management backgroud let me know I also am very familiar with FEMA regs. LOL
Hi there BAHA.
Shower then the rack for me.Ill see ya sandcrab.Hungry too.
will keep you in mind Crab.If you get back down this way and want a good dive let me know. I have friends in the business who will take you out
Kman, I will make a good note of that. Thanks Ok all have a good nite. Pat I will let ya know if I can get the schedule together for the other discussion.
well guys thats it for me for tonight.
Had a really good time catching up with you all.
Pirates Week starts tomorrow so have to get a good nights rest LOL
Big party tomorrow night with street dancing etc.
Ah the Tropics !!
kmanislander check your mail!
for anyone travelling here in the next few days

Pirates Week !!

Okay..ginght sandcrab
Hello from Fl everyone what is going on tonight?
Hi there Adrian

will check it out tomorrow. Gotta turn in now and get ready for the action starting tomorrow !
gnite all
Good evening,

Iam still working on my new website and i wanted to know everyone's thoughts so far.

Leave thoughts in my guest book.

Adrian's Weather
Well I'm out too. Have a nice one everybody, and may you all dream of..........TUNNELS hahahah
Posted By: Patrap at 9:19 PM EST on November 09, 2006.
Looks like another severe event next Tues for us..the GFSx shows Link

Save some for us in FL - don't hog all the weather. More lurk & work tomorrow. Stay Tropical. Peace. Out.
381. Inyo
Posted By: Trouper415 at 9:23 PM GMT on November 09, 2006.
Hey Inyo, what do you think the chances are of central/northern California seeing a storm the size that flooded Washington and Oregon this winter bsaed on what just recently happened and what you said about the jet falling south.


My guess would be that it is very likely that a similar amount of rain will fall in California, but depending on the strength of El Nino, it could be concentrated south of Monterey or so. During stronger el ninos, Southern California seems to get pounded but sometimes northern california is relatively dry. If it remains moderate, I'll bet there will be flooding on the Russian River in mid december, unless el nino weakens, I think heavy rain will fall in So-Cal starting around Christmas and continuing through spring but punctuated by at least one period where it is dry for several weeks. I also think it is less likely than average for a cold snap to occur... due to El Nino. That cold we had last year in March was typical of La Nina, even though it was weakening by then.

didn't we see this before already, I think it was two weeks ago?
They are so screwed.
What is with these freak storms!?
So, it went from a TD to a TS to a Cat. 1 to Cat. 4 in 24 hours?
Freak One-Eyed Monster Storm Spotted on Saturn

just read it here is a link to the short video Link
Awaken World..the weather waits for no one!
The Saturn storm seems to be trending er..uh...WEST!
(dang-blasted wishcasters!)

just teasin, Patrap!

Huge 'hurricane' rages on Saturn


Hey aqua...WU mail me ...LOL
WTH Chabi went from TD to TS to CAT 4 in only a few advisorys THATS way Faster than Wilma!
"Measuring 5,000 miles (8,000km) across, the storm is the first hurricane ever detected on a planet other than Earth."


A late season huricane with 0 potential for loss of life or property damage
The Great Red Spot on Jupiter is over 350 years Old.A cyclone that would easily span the Earth..4 times over.o
The Saturn System..quite impressive...
I'm more amazed by this storm than Wilma. Wilma too longer to organise before she went through rapid deepening. This storm was a blob on the map two nights ago.
here is an interesting storm on saturn

"The colossal storm, with a well-developed eye, marks the first time a truly hurricane-like storm has been detected on a planet other than Earth,"

sorry repost.... should have read all of the posts