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The uncertain legacy of Copenhagen

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 8:39 PM GMT on December 22, 2009

The Copenhagen (COP15) climate summit is over, and leaves an uncertain legacy. What was accomplished in Copenhagen was far outweighed by what was not accomplished. While the final Copenhagen Accord affirmed that we must hold the warming of our planet below 2°C above pre-industrial levels by 2100 to avert dangerous climate change, no timetable for accomplishing that goal was specified. The promises made by the various nations at the summit would likely lead to a 3.9°C warming of the planet, according to an analysis by MIT's Sustainability Institute. Copenhagen did demonstrate that the hype preceding the talks was not undeserved--the stakes involved are huge, and we have an epic political battle on our hands that will afford high drama in 2010. Probably the best summary of the political battle at Copenhagen was posted by author Mark Lynas on the UK Guardian's web site. The title of the article was, "How do I know China wrecked the Copenhagen deal? I was in the room".

The leaders for greenhouse gas reductions
While the Copenhagen Summit made it clear that the coming battle will feature the U.S. and China, the voices of two tiny island nations--Tuvalu and The Maldives--will be important as well. When ranked by percentage of population located near the coast at an elevation of ten meters or less, the top five spots are held by small island nations with more than 90% of their population in this Low Elevation Coastal Zone--the Maldives, Marshall Islands, Tuvalu, Cayman Islands, and Turks and Caicos Islands (McGranahan et al., 2007). The very existence of these island nations are threatened by sea level rise due to climate change. The leaders of Tuvalu and The Maldives brought considerable attention to their plight at the Copenhagen conference, and President Mohamed Nasheed of the Maldives, in particular, has made his tiny country a force to be reckoned with in the coming battle.


Figure 1. President Mohamed Nasheed of the Maldives, Vice President Dr Mohamed Waheed and 11 cabinet ministers donned scuba gear and submerged 4 meters below the surface of sea to hold the world's first underwater cabinet meeting on October 17, 2009, in order to dramatize the threat sea level rise poses to their country.

The leaders against greenhouse gas reductions
Canada has joined Saudi Arabia as a leading voice against efforts to control emissions of greenhouse gases. According to The Climate Change Performance Index (CCPI), which is published annually by Germanwatch and CAN-Europe, Canada ranks second to last in climate policy and in overall efforts to tackle climate change, among the 57 industrialized countries and emerging economies that together account for more than 90 per cent of global energy-related CO2 emissions. Canada's national statement at COP15 featured no commitments of money or targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and Canada also lobbied to change the "base" year from when emission reductions should be computed from 1990 to 2006. Croatia was the only other country to support Canada's position. The notorious political pranksters The Yes Men dramatized Canada's position by issuing a phony press release during COP15 claiming that Canada had come to its senses and was now going to work toward a 40 per cent cut in greenhouse gas emissions, the type of cut scientists say is necessary if we are to avoid dangerous warming of more than 2°C over pre-industrial levels. Canadian reporters immediately recognized the news release as a hoax. Canadian politics is heavily dominated by the fossil fuel industry, and Canadian reporters immediately saw the impossibility of the Canadian government performing an about-face on climate policy.


Figure 2. The top ten and bottom ten performing countries on the Climate Change Performance Index (CCPI), published annually by Germanwatch and CAN-Europe to rank the efforts to combat climate change of the 57 industrialized countries and emerging economies that together account for more than 90 per cent of global energy-related CO2 emissions. The ranking system factors in three scores: the emissions level (CO2 per primary energy unit, primary energy unit per GDP, and primary energy unit per capita); the emissions trend (whether emissions are rising or falling), and a subjective rating of the nation's national and international climate policy. Tall bars indicate a higher ranking, and thin bars represent a poor ranking. None of the 57 countries were doing enough to keep global warming below 2°C, so the top three spots on the list were left blank. Image credit: Germanwatch.org.

Comparison with the battle over CFC regulations and the ozone hole
On June 28, 1974, Sherry Rowland and Mario Molina, chemists at the University of California, Irvine, published the first scientific paper warning that human-generated chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) could cause serious harm to Earth's protective ozone layer (Molina and Rowland, 1974). They calculated that if CFC production continued to increase at the going rate of 10%/year until 1990, then remain steady, CFCs would cause a global 5 to 7 percent ozone loss by 1995 and 30 - 50% loss by 2050.

They warned that the loss of ozone would significantly increase the amount of skin-damaging ultraviolet UV-B light reaching the surface, greatly increasing skin cancer and cataracts. The loss of stratospheric ozone could also significantly cool the stratosphere, potentially causing destructive climate change. Although no stratospheric ozone loss had been observed yet, CFCs should be banned, they said. A huge international political battle ensued, one that eerily echoes many of the same themes as the battle over global warming. In a 1984 interview in The New Yorker, Dr. Rowland concluded, "Nothing will be done about this problem until there is further evidence that a significant loss of ozone has occurred. Unfortunately, this means that if there is a disaster in the making in the stratosphere we are probably not going to avoid it." These prophetic words were proved true the very next year with the discovery of the Antarctic ozone hole. Speedy action to save the planet from potentially disastrous loss of the ozone layer was realized with the swift implementation of the Montreal Protocol two years later, though.

As was the case with the battle over the CFCs and the ozone layer, I expect it will take a obvious imminent climate change disaster to motivate governments to take strong action. I believed in September 2007 that such an event had occurred, when the Arctic ice cap lost more than half of its area, compared to levels observed in the early 1950s. I was astounded at the nonchalance the event earned in the press and among politicians. But, in hindsight I should not have been surprised, since the stakes are very much higher than the battle to ban CFCs--now we are talking about the fossil fuel industry, the very basis for our modern industrialized society. A very big, very obvious disaster in the making will probably be needed to motivate strong enough action to make a major difference in CO2 emissions. Our climate is certainly capable of generating such an event in the coming decade. Unfortunately, if we wait until a disaster is obviously imminent, we will have far less time to prevent a climate disaster than we had for the ozone depletion crisis. The lifetime of CFCs in the atmosphere is 50 - 140 years, but a substantial portion of the CO2 put in the air stays for thousands of years. According to the 2007 IPCC report, "About 50% of a CO2 increase will be removed from the atmosphere within 30 years, and a further 30% will be removed within a few centuries. The remaining 20% may stay in the atmosphere for many thousands of years."

References
McGranahan, G., D. Balk, and B. Anderson, 2007, "The rising tide: assessing the risks of climate change and human settlements in low elevation coastal zones", Environment & Urbanization, 19(1), 17-37.

Molina, M.J., and F.S. Rowland, "Stratospheric Sink for Chlorofluoromethanes: Chlorine Atom-Catalyzed Destruction of Ozone", Nature 249, 810-812, 1974.

Next post
Have a great Christmas, everyone, and I'll be back with a new post on Monday (at the latest).

Jeff Masters

Climate Change

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Oh, wow! South Florida in the 30's and the 40's:

AZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK FOR SOUTH FLORIDA
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MIAMI FL
1000 AM EST SUN DEC 27 2009

FLZ063-066>075-168-172>174-281100-
GLADES-HENDRY-INLAND PALM BEACH-METRO PALM BEACH-COASTAL COLLIER-
INLAND COLLIER-INLAND BROWARD-METRO BROWARD-INLAND MIAMI DADE-
METRO MIAMI DADE-MAINLAND MONROE-COASTAL PALM BEACH-
COASTAL BROWARD-COASTAL MIAMI DADE-FAR SOUTH MIAMI DADE-
1000 AM EST SUN DEC 27 2009

...COOL WEATHER EXPECTED TUESDAY AND ONCE AGAIN NEXT WEEKEND...


DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...MONDAY THROUGH SATURDAY

A COLD FRONT IS FORECAST TO MOVE ACROSS SOUTH FLORIDA ON MONDAY
AFTERNOON, LEADING TO AN INCREASE IN NORTHERLY WINDS AND
DETERIORATING CONDITIONS ON THE LOCAL WATERS. SIMILAR CONDITIONS ARE
EXPECTED ONCE AGAIN LATE THIS WEEK, FOLLOWING THE PASSAGE OF AN EVEN
STRONGER COLD FRONT.

MINIMUM APPARENT TEMPERATURES WILL FALL INTO THE 40 TO 45 DEGREE
RANGE FOR A LARGE PART OF MAINLAND SOUTH FLORIDA, WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF THE SOUTHEAST COAST, BY TUESDAY MORNING, WITH VALUES
POSSIBLY FALLING INTO THE 35 TO 40 DEGREE RANGE ACROSS NORTHERN
INTERIOR LOCATIONS. MINIMUM APPARENT TEMPERATURES WILL LIKELY FALL
INTO THE 30S FOR MOST OF THE REGION, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE
IMMEDIATE SOUTHEAST COAST NEXT SUNDAY AND MONDAY MORNINGS,
FOLLOWING PASSAGE OF A STRONGER COLD FRONT LATE THIS WEEK.

A LINGERING GROUND SWELL THIS WEEK WILL MAINTAIN A SLIGHT CHANCE OF
RIP CURRENTS MAINLY ALONG THE PALM BEACH BEACHES. THIS WILL COMBINE
WITH AN INCREASING ONSHORE FLOW EXPECTED BETWEEN THE TWO FRONTAL
SYSTEMS TOWARD THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, TO RAISE THE THREAT FOR RIP
CURRENTS ALONG THE ATLANTIC COAST BY THEN.

Portion of the Area forecast Discussion:

EXTENDED...WEDNESDAY THROUGH MONDAY...PATTERN SIMILAR IN LONG RANGE
MODELS BUT GFS/ECMWF DISAGREE ON HANDLING THE DETAILS. THE FORMER
INDICATES A COUPLE OF SHORT WAVES DIVING INTO THE LONG WAVE TROUGH
DEEPENING THE SYSTEM AND DEVELOPING A DEEPER SURFACE LOW IN THE GULF
THAT DIVES SE AND ACROSS S FLA FRI. BOTH INDICATE A COLD FRONT
THROUGH S FLA NEW YEARS DAY BUT THE TIMING OF PASSAGE AND THE
ASSOCIATED WEATHER IS STILL UP IN THE AIR. THE LATTER HAS A MORE
SHALLOW LONG WAVE TROUGH WITH A WEAKER LOW THAT MOVES THAT MOVES
THROUGH THE SE U.S. AND NE TOWARD THE MID ATLC STATES. BEHIND THE
FRONT...REALLY COLD AIR MAY FLOW DOWN THE FLA PENINSULA AFFECTING S
FLA A WEEK FROM TODAY.
1502. aquak9
made me look...

GFS MOS STILL CONSISTENTLY INDICATING
THE COLDEST MIN TEMPS OF THE SEASON BY SUN MORNING WITH TEMPS INTO
THE MID 20S OVER MANY INLAND AREAS.

That's NE Florida. Forget the beach.
Quoting GrtLksQuest:


? Please educate me. The headless boy? St. Sigmund's Day?


Like Christmas has Santa Claus...in St. Olaf, MN., St. Sigmund's Day has the headless boy. A running joke between a few of us on here. :)
From Wiki:

Jim Caldwell (born January 16, 1955 in Beloit, Wisconsin) is the current head coach of the Indianapolis Colts. He also served as the head coach of Wake Forest from 1993 to 2000. He had a career collegiate record of 26-63. He has served as an assistant coach at the University of Iowa, Southern Illinois University, Northwestern, Colorado, Louisville, and Penn State. Caldwell was a four-year starter at defensive back for the University of Iowa in the late 1970s. Caldwell is also a member of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity Inc. Caldwell holds the record for the best start by a rookie head coach, starting his career with 14 wins. On December 27th Peyton Manning murdered Caldwell for benching him.
1505. hydrus
Quoting aquak9:
hydrus- us natives don't run around on the beach when there's highs in the seventies.

We're wearing sweaters at that temp.
What? I was born on Miami beach and raised on Captiva Island. Is not cold day at the beach better than no day at the beach? Absafrickenlutely....We just set some of those pine needles and driftwood on fire, and slam copious amounts of apple-butter-rum with cinnamon sticks, and the chilly day at the beach is whole lot better.jmo
Quoting aquak9:
made me look...

GFS MOS STILL CONSISTENTLY INDICATING
THE COLDEST MIN TEMPS OF THE SEASON BY SUN MORNING WITH TEMPS INTO
THE MID 20S OVER MANY INLAND AREAS.

That's NE Florida. Forget the beach.


Many in Florida wanted the weather to cool down, well, you may actually see the temps get knocked lower as tha models come into better agreement about how much cold air gets dumped into the US.

Notice the areas of High pressure over Canada and the Arctic!

The Siberian Arctic high pressure system is drifting over the Arctic into Canada, and the low pressure systems marching across the North Atlantic seem to be helping it by drawing Arctic airflow across the North American continent. Normally the Siberian High has the highest average seasonal pressures in the world at any time of the year, close to 1035 mb. But the fact that the high pressure system currently exceeds 1045 mb, and that it's drifting into northeastern Siberia, I find rather concerning. However, the deepest part of the High itself is located in the Barents Sea, and drifting completely into North America. Remember that Siberia frequently gets winter temperatures of -50C and colder, and when a part of the Siberian high drifted into Canada, a location near Edmonton, Alberta recorded a temperature of -46C, and on November 5 the coldest temperature this fall and winter in the city itself hit -36.5C. The high drifting into North America runs the risk of not only causing snowstorms in the deep south of the US, but also allowing winter storms that are usually blocked by the Siberian High to move across East Asia and strengthen, causing storms in China, Korea, and Japan. Already large storms have exploded in intensity after emerging from the Sea of Japan and feeding into the North Pacific Low, especially when Typhoon Nida was weakening. The nor'easters over the US are moving into Europe, then weakening after they cross the Aral Mountains. However if the Siberian High weakens over Siberia and stays in North America, the storms could traverse Central Asia and move east, and the circulation around these storms would move the high northward.

The current phase of El Nino is weakening the jet streams by reducing temperature contrasts, so storms and high pressure systems can move more quickly, and extreme temperatures result when air masses move to latitudes they normally do not inhabit. Entire semi-permanent air masses are actually crossing the Arctic Ocean, which is unusual and probably related to the Arctic diopole. Very intense storms are forming around the world, and where they intensify over water, sea surface temperatures are affected. The South Pacific warm anomaly (roughly 35S to 60S) is now more intense than the El Nino anomaly at the equator. The storms tracking across the Northeastern Pacific near Japan, and the storms emerging off the coast of the US, and changing the structure of the currents in the West Pacific and the Gulf Stream. Today, I noticed, a new branch of the warm Atlantic current emerged east of Bermuda, pointing toward Greenland. Here's today's global SST map:



Notice that the new branch is taking a shortcut in the Central Atlantic through the portion of the Gulf Stream that points toward Greenland, as would be expected by the continuous northwesterly airflow around intense North American storms as they stall in the area. The current Bermuda High, if you could call it that, is split into two parts: the weaker one centered over Morocco, and the stronger one south of Newfoundland (look at the initial slides for computer model runs). The warm water in the South Pacific is at the east end of the warm El Nino pool, bulging toward the area between the west end of the Ross Ice Shelf and Pine Island Bay in Antarctica. The 20C line to the southeast of the pool is moving closer to the coast of Chile, while the west end is drifting back toward Papua New Guinea, and so the Walker Circulation in the West Pacific is still strong, as a 31C pool of water emerged within the Central/East Pacific warm pool on Christmas Eve and disappeared today, and the SSTs north of Australia are getting warmer. It looks like a struggle between the weakening Humboldt and the equatorial trade winds, versus the El Nino warm pool and Equatorial Counter-Current.

The 18z GFS is predicting a severe nor'easter on January 1 - 5, dumping large amounts of snow over New England only when it emerges over the Atlantic. The Mississippi and other major rivers in the US are starting to flood after the snow in climatically warm areas is melting. However, the next storm forecast by the GFS for January 7 - 11 (these dates are for when the storm is predicted to give snowfall to parts of North America, ending when the storm tracks into Arctic regions), starts as an Alberta Clipper system and intensifies over the Great Lakes region (yikes, that's me!). Over a 24-hour period, the storm is expected to expand barometrically and intensify, absorbing moisture from the Bahamas to the Gulf, and emerge over the Atlantic as a Nor'easter system. This is not the usual mode of formation for nor'easters (AFAIK)! After that, the GFS expects the storm to absorb yet another Alberta Clipper system, this one more intense than the first, and then track north of Labrador at 959 hPa by the end of the model run. Since this storm is predicted to occur right when the cold Arctic airmass moves over Canada, it could be a major snow event for parts of eastern North America. Remember though that this particular (double) storm is two weeks away, so the model forecasts can change very rapidly. Here's two snapshots of the 18z run, at 300h and 336h respectively:





By the way, are the temperatures in the GFS forecasts in Celcius or Farenheit, and are they surface temps or at a height?

Also, strong storms are predicted for other places around the world, for example this one in the Southeastern Pacific by the GFS:

Link

Here are links for the same storm by other models: CMC and NOGAPS


I said recently that I would have my first blog post ready by this weekend. The first blog will be written today if I have time, and will address what I will often write in the blog, as well as a scoop of current weather conditions, mostly for Southern Ontario. I will cover many topics, but remember that I am not an expert in meteorology, just an amateur weather forecaster (and an amateur astronomer). I also might not blog on a regular basis (I am known to "procrastinate" with online activities) as I am sometimes busy on weekdays, especially next month. Also remember to take any predictions and inferences with a grain of salt, as I often make extreme predictions, especially for tropical cyclones. However, I do not intend to spread fear, so please do not dismiss me as alarmist.

I will also alternate between comments on Jeff Masters' blog and entries on my own blog, but hopefully I don't become too occupied with blogging on WeatherUnderground as that would take more time out of my other daily activities, including on other websites. Expect some occasional long posts (like this one), but I should break them into smaller posts and entires because some of my comments are even longer than Dr. Masters' blog entries! Also they can get boring and excessive to read. :)
1508. Patrap
60 Hour CONUS Forecast Surface Map

1509. Patrap
THE HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER
CAMP SPRINGS, MD
SHORT RANGE FORECAST DISCUSSION


SHORT RANGE FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
409 PM EST SUN DEC 27 2009

VALID 00Z MON DEC 28 2009 - 12Z TUE DEC 29 2009

THE FORECAST PERIOD BEGINS WITH A DISSIPATING LOW PRESSURE
SYSTEM...THE FORMER BLIZZARD THAT IMPACTED THE NORTHERN PLAINS
DURING CHRISTMAS. DESPITE THE CONTINUED WEAKENING...ENOUGH ENERGY
AND MOISTURE ARE STILL AVAILABLE TO GENERATE LIGHT TO LOCALLY
MODERATE SNOW AS THE UPPER-LEVEL CLOSED LOW EVOLVES TO AN OPEN
WAVE. AS THE WAVE SWINGS TOWARDS THE ATLANTIC COAST...NUMERICAL
GUIDANCES SHOW THAT IT WILL BE RE-ENERGIZED AS IT TAPES INTO
WARMER ATLANTIC AIR IN CONTRAST WITH THE MODIFIED ARCTIC AIR OVER
LAND. A PERIOD OF LIGHT TO LOCALLY MODERATE SNOW CAN BE EXPECTED
TO MOVE EAST ACROSS THE OHIO VALLEY INTO THE APPALACHIANS FROM
SUNDAY EVENING INTO MONDAY MORNING AS A SURFACE LOW PRESSURE FORMS
OVER WESTERN NEW ENGLAND. THIS LOW PRESSURE IS FORECAST TO
GRADUALLY INTENSIFY AS IT SWINGS TOWARDS NORTHERN MAINE. AS THE
LOW DEPARTS...A PERIOD OF SNOW CAN BE EXPECTED ON MONDAY INTO THE
FIRST HALF OF TUESDAY FROM WESTERN NEW ENGLAND INTO NORTHERN
MAINE.

JUST AS THE LOW PRESSURE DEPARTS...A REPLENISHMENT OF ARCTIC AIR
IS SCHEDULED TO ARRIVE OVER THE GREAT LAKES ON MONDAY. THE MAIN
FORCING ASSOCIATED WITH THIS ARCTIC INTRUSION WILL BE ACROSS
EASTERN CANADA AND THE ARCTIC AIR SHOULD PENETRATE NO FARTHER
SOUTH THAN THE NORTHERN PLAINS. BUT FOR THE GREAT LAKES...THIS
RENEWED ARCTIC INTRUSION MEANS A RENEWED AROUND OF LAKE EFFECT
SNOW ON TUESDAY.

OVER THE WEST...A SLOWLY DISSIPATING SYSTEM WILL DELIVER A AROUND
OF MOUNTAIN SNOW AND COASTAL RAIN ACROSS THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST
THROUGH TUESDAY.

TOWARDS THE END OF THE FORECAST PERIOD...NUMERICAL GUIDANCES SHOW
THAT MOISTURE WILL BEGIN TO INVADE THE MEXICAN PLATEAU EARLY ON
TUESDAY IN ASSOCIATION WITH A VIGOROUS SUBTROPICAL JET. BY TUESDAY
MORNING...SNOW COULD BE FALLING FROM PARTS OF EASTERN ARIZONA INTO
SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO AND SOUTHWESTERN TEXAS.

KONG

GRAPHICS AVAILABLE AT WWW.HPC.NCEP.NOAA.GOV
Quoting Bordonaro:


If you live in Ontario, I am sure you will finally be getting your Arctic cold and snow!


Finally!! It snowed yesterday and today, but very little accumalations. However, the recent Texas low has given us far more snow than rain (even though the centre has STILL not passed over us yet), so much of the snow on the ground had melted.
1512. aquak9
back in the day, eh hydrus? nowadays- no fires, no rums, just aimless wanderings of drunk teenagers and homeless folks on the local beaches at night.

Bordonaro- I do remember the late 70's, early 80's winters here as being brutal..
model run from top of the world view

Just got back from seeing AVATAR with SWMBO and my kid. Great movie!
1515. Grothar
Quoting GrtLksQuest:


? Please educate me. The headless boy? St. Sigmund's Day?


Isn't that the day St. Olafians celebrate....hay?
Quoting AstroHurricane001:


Finally!! It snowed yesterday and today, but very little accumalations. However, the recent Texas low has given us far more snow than rain (even though the centre has STILL not passed over us yet), so much of the snow on the ground had melted.


We have about 4 inches of new snow. We get that lovely fluffy lake-effect stuff. Our lake (a 500-acre shallow inland lake) is frozen over and snow-covered. Looking good for cross-country skiing and snowshoeing.

1517. Grothar
Just caught up on the blog. How cold is it supposed to get in S. Fla? Or are you guys just kidding?
1518. hydrus
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Just got back from seeing AVATAR with SWMBO and my kid. Great movie!
Someone said it is a long movie, 3 hours long.
Miami NWS Discussion:

EXTENDED...WEDNESDAY THROUGH MONDAY...PATTERN SIMILAR IN LONG RANGE
MODELS BUT GFS/ECMWF DISAGREE ON HANDLING THE DETAILS. THE FORMER
INDICATES A COUPLE OF SHORT WAVES DIVING INTO THE LONG WAVE TROUGH
DEEPENING THE SYSTEM AND DEVELOPING A DEEPER SURFACE LOW IN THE GULF
THAT DIVES SE AND ACROSS S FLA FRI. BOTH INDICATE A COLD FRONT
THROUGH S FLA NEW YEARS DAY BUT THE TIMING OF PASSAGE AND THE
ASSOCIATED WEATHER IS STILL UP IN THE AIR. THE LATTER HAS A MORE
SHALLOW LONG WAVE TROUGH WITH A WEAKER LOW THAT MOVES THAT MOVES
THROUGH THE SE U.S. AND NE TOWARD THE MID ATLC STATES. BEHIND THE
FRONT...REALLY COLD AIR MAY FLOW DOWN THE FLA PENINSULA AFFECTING S
FLA A WEEK FROM TODAY.

Quoting Grothar:
Just caught up on the blog. How cold is it supposed to get in S. Fla? Or are you guys just kidding?



gfs-mrf
global forecast system/medium range forcast
drop by my blog for updated info about every 6 hrs next model update near or just after midnight

Link
Evening, everybody. :)

A cold event for FLA. Wow...

I think Floridians are so lucky sometimes. To them, 55 degrees is like an ice age. 55 degrees feels SO GREAT to Northerners around this time of year (so that means I'm happy today)! But that's climate for you. :P

Wow! Everyone should go to KOG's blog and read...no...memorize...the Blogger's Code of Ethics posted there...
Link
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Just got back from seeing AVATAR with SWMBO and my kid. Great movie!


What does OrcaS think about sharing SWMBO?
Quoting aquak9:
hydrus- us natives don't run around on the beach when there's highs in the seventies.

We're wearing sweaters at that temp.


Wow. That's about 22 - 26C, and at that temperature people in Canada usually wear T-shirts and sometimes shorts, especially if it's sunny. We often get people wearing T-shirts below freezing, sometimes as cold as -10C (-12F) if it's not too windy, even if I can't stand wearing anything less than a sweater on top of a T-shirt (although usually I'd be wearing a winter jacket at that temp) if it's below freezing!
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
drop by my blog for updated info about every 6 hrs next model update near or just after midnight

Link


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/427972070_f0ae71447b_o.gif

KOG's Code of Ethics is something I subscribe to and hope we asll do.
Quoting tornadodude:
From Wiki:

Jim Caldwell (born January 16, 1955 in Beloit, Wisconsin) is the current head coach of the Indianapolis Colts. He also served as the head coach of Wake Forest from 1993 to 2000. He had a career collegiate record of 26-63. He has served as an assistant coach at the University of Iowa, Southern Illinois University, Northwestern, Colorado, Louisville, and Penn State. Caldwell was a four-year starter at defensive back for the University of Iowa in the late 1970s. Caldwell is also a member of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity Inc. Caldwell holds the record for the best start by a rookie head coach, starting his career with 14 wins. On December 27th Peyton Manning murdered Caldwell for benching him.


That edit was by an anonymous IP editor, who reverted another IP editor after reverting his/her insertion. I just reverted that edit and removed the uncited information.
Quoting hydrus:
Someone said it is a long movie, 3 hours long.


2 hrs 40 mins.
Quoting GrtLksQuest:


What does OrcaS think about sharing SWMBO?



Its too catchy and makes perfect sense. "Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery" someone much smarter than me once opined.
1531. hydrus
Quoting PensacolaDoug:


2 hrs 40 mins.
We will go see it next weekend. Must buy extra popcorn & soda for 2 hour 40 minute movie.
1532. Drakoen
30s (yellow) all the way down to the Dade County:



U.S.A next week Sunday morning minimum temps:

good Lord Drak...take that down...it's depressing...Happy Kwanzaa, btw...
Hope that holds true Drak. Gonna hit the 80's again before the weekend.
Drak..if the yellows are the 30's...I assume the blues are the 20's?
yep
1537. hydrus
Quoting presslord:
good Lord Drak...take that down...it's depressing...Happy Kwanzaa, btw...
Lol. This is only the beginning Press. Nor-Easters, blizzards, ice-storms and squall lines. Should be interesting to see how this winter evolves. This is not a doomcast, I call them as I sees um>:)
1538. Grothar
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:



gfs-mrf
global forecast system/medium range forcast


Thanks Keeper, but that is too cold for me. Any way you can adjust those colors? I don't function well below 70 deg.
Quoting Grothar:


Thanks Keeper, but that is too cold for me. Any way you can adjust those colors? I don't function well below 70 deg.


That explains a lot! :)
I don't function well below 70 deg.

me either Gro...
Quoting hydrus:
Lol. This is only the beginning Press. Nor-Easters, blizzards, ice-storms and squall lines. Should be interesting to see how this winter evolves. This is not a doomcast, I call them as I sees um>:)


Global Warming??? Hah!!!! The way the climate is currently changing around the world drastically proves all you GW believers wrong!
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Global Warming??? Hah!!!! The way the climate is currently changing around the world drastically proves all you GW believers wrong!


please pass the Vicodin...I'm getting a headache...
1543. Grothar
Quoting presslord:
I don't function well below 70 deg.

me either Gro...


Now you know why the Vikings were always on their little ships looking for new places to live; they just wanted out!!! Hey, press, too bad they didn't go a little further south.
1544. Grothar
Quoting presslord:


please pass the Vicodin...I'm getting a headache...


He is just injecting a little sarcasm into the conversation!....... I hope. LOL
I'm pretty sure WPB recognizes my twisted sense of humor...
Quoting presslord:


please pass the Vicodin...I'm getting a headache...


Record lows across the country...record snowfalls across the country...record snowfalls across globe...yes, there is global warming Virginia. It's just the planet is going through a major climate change. You GW believers make me laugh!
1547. hydrus
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Global Warming??? Hah!!!! The way the climate is currently changing around the world drastically proves all you GW believers wrong!
There are so many opinions about GW. I believe Mother Earth would still be getting warmer regardless of our existence here. Are we speeding it up? Who really knows.
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Global Warming??? Hah!!!! The way the climate is currently changing around the world drastically proves all you GW believers wrong!
its called nino and my self is awaitin severe season and see how all the nums add up these are all clues to other seasonal patterns yet to come i will not lied when i say i expect an active severe season how active remains to be seen and along what lines this activity will be
Quoting presslord:
I'm pretty sure WPB recognizes my twisted sense of humor...


Yes...I am being an arse tonight. The sad thing is...some bloggers are shaking their head yes, that makes sense.
1550. Grothar
Quoting presslord:
I'm pretty sure WPB recognizes my twisted sense of humor...


I'm sure he does. I always did. It takes a twisted mind to recognize another. That is why I enjoy your posts so much.
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Record lows across the country...record snowfalls across the country...record snowfalls across globe...yes, there is global warming Virginia. It's just the planet is going through a major climate change. You GW believers make me laugh!
maybe its not climate change but climate shift remember newtons law for every action expect a reaction
there are billions of actions
but only one reaction
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
maybe its not climate change but climate shift remember newtons law for every action expect a reaction


I agree this is a natural cycle...but I also agree man is somewhat contributing to the slow expedience of the cycle.
...let's start a poker game...
1555. Grothar
Jan. 19, 1977: The day it snowed in Miami
Thirty years ago today, it snowed in South Florida. To some, that was the equivalent of hell freezing over. Many still remember the day.
BY LUISA YANEZ
lyanez@MiamiHerald.com
(This story was originally published January 19, 2007.)

Forecaster Ray Biedinger looked at the screen of his trusty weather radar in the wee hours of Jan. 19, 1977, and knew what he had to do.

The bitter cold front barreling south across the state during his midnight shift at the old National Weather Service office in Coral Gables left him no choice but to hold his breath and issue one of Miami's most unusual forecasts:

"Cold with rain showers and the possibility of snow, " Biedinger wrote.

"I didn't put snow first, if you notice, " he said recently. But he got it right.

Thirty years ago today, snowflakes briefly dusted palm trees, windshields and people from Miami to West Palm Beach -- a freak but brief winter wonderland and the only South Florida snowfall on record in the 20th century.

Shivering South Floridians, young and old, looked up into the sky in total amazement as flakes landed on their faces.

In those early-morning hours, snowflakes fell as far south as Homestead and daytime temperatures for the region dipped into the low 30s. But by 9:30 a.m., South Florida's big snow show was over, melted by the sun's rays.
Quoting Grothar:
Jan. 19, 1977: The day it snowed in Miami
Thirty years ago today, it snowed in South Florida. To some, that was the equivalent of hell freezing over. Many still remember the day.
BY LUISA YANEZ
lyanez@MiamiHerald.com
(This story was originally published January 19, 2007.)

Forecaster Ray Biedinger looked at the screen of his trusty weather radar in the wee hours of Jan. 19, 1977, and knew what he had to do.

The bitter cold front barreling south across the state during his midnight shift at the old National Weather Service office in Coral Gables left him no choice but to hold his breath and issue one of Miami's most unusual forecasts:

"Cold with rain showers and the possibility of snow, " Biedinger wrote.

"I didn't put snow first, if you notice, " he said recently. But he got it right.

Thirty years ago today, snowflakes briefly dusted palm trees, windshields and people from Miami to West Palm Beach -- a freak but brief winter wonderland and the only South Florida snowfall on record in the 20th century.

Shivering South Floridians, young and old, looked up into the sky in total amazement as flakes landed on their faces.

In those early-morning hours, snowflakes fell as far south as Homestead and daytime temperatures for the region dipped into the low 30s. But by 9:30 a.m., South Florida's big snow show was over, melted by the sun's rays.


I was in high school that day...and I still remember one of the headlines in the Palm Beach Post...Our local K Mart mistakenly received an order of snow shovels!
Quoting presslord:
...let's start a poker game...


all in
Quoting presslord:
...let's start a poker game...

SURE
how about a hand of blind man's bluff
Quoting Drakoen:
30s (yellow) all the way down to the Dade County:



U.S.A next week Sunday morning minimum temps:



It's still early, but this has the potential to be like what your graph shows. The high is of polar origin, and those are the ones that can give southern florida very cold temps. We'll see how the models do over the next few days.

Adrian
1560. Grothar
Quoting tornadodude:


all in



I bid two spades.
you want snow for fla hang on i will point the tubo's s se for awhile
i got six of them on the roof i see what i can do

lol
Quoting Grothar:



I bid two spades.


how's Florida?
Quoting Grothar:


Thanks Keeper, but that is too cold for me. Any way you can adjust those colors? I don't function well below 70 deg.


That sounds like you're suited only to warm temperatures. By your handle I thought you lived in Norway, but evidently not, are you from New England/Eastern CONUS? High 80's Farenheit for me would be almost uncomfortably hot if it's humid.
PS. I will not have my blog entry ready by today.
You get used to the humidity.. 80's here is comfortable especially when you compare it to upper 90's with high humidity that we get in the summer. Guess it's all relative, compared to what you're used to.
Quoting aquak9:
back in the day, eh hydrus? nowadays- no fires, no rums, just aimless wanderings of drunk teenagers and homeless folks on the local beaches at night.

Bordonaro- I do remember the late 70's, early 80's winters here as being brutal..


If the Computer model run in #1513 is correct Arctic/Siberian air eill be drawn down to the Central Plains on 1-5-10. It will spill down the front range of the Rockies!
1568. Patrap
In NOLA in Aug thru Sept,one can actually see Tourist Melt right out in Jackson Square.

Nothing usually left but a puddle,a cell phone,Burmuda Shorts..lil Hats and shoes.

Sometimes a tour Map too.

Being one of those "native born" Floridians, I enjoy a cold spell or two. This winter season appears it will easily outdo last winter.
maybe its not climate change but climate shift remember newtons law for every action expect a reaction

It doesnt really matter if its "change" or "shift", the AGW crowd cant comprehend Newtons 3rd law very well for some reason...Since they think ONE meteorological variable(temp) can perpetually increase, due to a TRACE gas, in which, only part of this trace gas, man is responsible...Such a fairy tale! And all that keeps them afloat are those unreliable climate models.....garbage in=garbage out....

Consensus? No way! link

Quoting Grothar:
Jan. 19, 1977: The day it snowed in Miami
Thirty years ago today, it snowed in South Florida. To some, that was the equivalent of hell freezing over. Many still remember the day.
BY LUISA YANEZ
lyanez@MiamiHerald.com
(This story was originally published January 19, 2007.)

Forecaster Ray Biedinger looked at the screen of his trusty weather radar in the wee hours of Jan. 19, 1977, and knew what he had to do.

The bitter cold front barreling south across the state during his midnight shift at the old National Weather Service office in Coral Gables left him no choice but to hold his breath and issue one of Miami's most unusual forecasts:

"Cold with rain showers and the possibility of snow, " Biedinger wrote.

"I didn't put snow first, if you notice, " he said recently. But he got it right.

Thirty years ago today, snowflakes briefly dusted palm trees, windshields and people from Miami to West Palm Beach -- a freak but brief winter wonderland and the only South Florida snowfall on record in the 20th century.

Shivering South Floridians, young and old, looked up into the sky in total amazement as flakes landed on their faces.

In those early-morning hours, snowflakes fell as far south as Homestead and daytime temperatures for the region dipped in the low 30s. But by 9:30 a.m., South Florida's big snow show was over, melted by the sun's rays.


The I-4 corridor in Orlando received 6" accumulations that day. Though shockingly OIA missed the brunt of that once in a lifetime snowfall as they only received a dusting. Many in Tampa and Orlando had to brush snow off of their cars before heading to work.
1572. Grothar
Quoting AstroHurricane001:


That sounds like you're suited only to warm temperatures. By your handle I thought you lived in Norway, but evidently not, are you from New England/Eastern CONUS? High 80's Farenheit for me would be almost uncomfortably hot if it's humid.


I was born on Long Island, but lived in Norway, Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, Greenland (after it was green), Italy and a few other places. I studied mostly in Europe but also attended high school on Long Island and some Universities here as well. My mother's family moved to Florida in 1923 and we always maintained a home here. Never like the cold. I settled in Miami-Ft.Lauderdale permanently years ago, but still travel quite frequently.
1573. Grothar
Quoting weatherbro:


The I-4 corridor in Orlando received 6" accumulations that day. Though shockingly OIA missed the brunt of that once in a lifetime snowfall as they only received a dusting. Many in Tampa and Orlando had to brush snow off of their cars before heading to work.


Where were you at the time?
Quoting Grothar:


I was born on Long Island, but lived in Norway, Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, Greenland (after it was green), Italy and a few other places. I studied mostly in Europe but also attended high school on Long Island and some Universities here as well. My mother's family moved to Florida in 1923 and we always maintained a home here. Never like the cold. I settled in Miami-Ft.Lauderdale permanently years ago, but still travel quite frequently.


I was born in West Palm Beach and moved to Lake Worth. God I am boring.
1575. Grothar
Quoting weatherbro:


The I-4 corridor in Orlando received 6" accumulations that day. Though shockingly OIA missed the brunt of that once in a lifetime snowfall as they only received a dusting. Many in Tampa and Orlando had to brush snow off of their cars before heading to work.



Here is a stock photo from Tampa 1977 for you.

Quoting presslord:
...let's start a poker game...

okay, i'll keep track of the clothes.
Tampa FL (1977):



Haha.. You know what they say "great minds think alike"
1578. Patrap
Where do all the Millions of tons of Emissions from Coal,Fossil Oil fuel,and Exhaust,..and runoff,..actually go as its pumped into a closed ecosystem..?

Never seem to get that answered?

I think its the Methane Pixies,and Co2 Fairy's..


But them Guys and Gals falling behind as the PPM's increases.And any student or PHD easily knows the warming is occurring. What the Barking is about is the root cause,or cause and effect percentage.

Not Many Deer Building Coal Fired Plant or Possums driving SUV's and Diesel Burners 24/7/365 either.


Were all Rat's in a Large Scale Planetary Experiment that,to Quote a Phrase of a Good FLick...,that will,

"...change the Face of Iracus..."












Quoting AstroHurricane001:
PS. I will not have my blog entry ready by today.

what blog. you don't have a blog.
1580. Grothar
Quoting charlottefl:
Tampa FL (1977):



Hey, the woman in your picture looks just like the woman in my picture. What a coincidence.
1581. Patrap
Quoting Grothar:


Hey, the woman in your picture looks just like the woman in my picture. What a coincidence.



Thats a Guy in the Pic..LOL
1582. Grothar
Quoting Patrap:
Where do all the Millions of tons of Emissions from Coal,Fossil Oil fuel,and Exhaust,..and runoff,..actually go as its pumped into a closed ecosystem..?

Never seem to get that answered?

I think its the Methane Pixies,and Co2 Fairy's..


But them Guys and Gals falling behind as the PPM's increases.And any student or PHD easily knows the warming is occurring. What the Barking is about is the root cause,or cause and effect percentage.

Not Many Deer Building Coal Fired Plant or Possums driving SUV's and Diesel Burners 24/7/365 either.


Were all Rat's in a Large Scale Planetary Experiment that,to Quote a Phrase of a Good FLick...,that will,

"...change the Face of Iracus..."














Pat, the bigger problem is not all the data; it just seems most people do not fully understand the meaning of the word "consensus".
1583. Patrap
Quoting Grothar:


Pat, the bigger problem is not all the data; it just seems most people do not fully understand the meaning of the word "consensus".


U betcha,

..but some can See Russia from their Porch.

Amazing ,Huh?
Quoting Patrap:



Thats a Guy in the Pic..LOL

No offense, but I think the name is 'Pat.'
And it's concensus.
1585. Grothar
Quoting Patrap:



Thats a Guy in the Pic..LOL



OMG, have I gotten that old!
Quoting Chicklit:

okay, i'll keep track of the clothes.


BWAHAHAHAHA! Smart gal. Whatcha' going to do with Press's thong?

I had a bad poodle perm in 1977, looked a lot worse like the lady in the pic.

Can't stay, just wanted to pop in and say hi.
Also afraid to turn the channel back to the 'skins-cowboys game..."Pawn Shop" was a lot interesting and less depressing.

Have a good night; hope Monday won't be too dreary.

ADD...uh oh, that really might be a guy.
A black and white photo taken on January 19, 1977 of a woman named Yvonne Berry cleaning snow off of the windshield of her car in a parking lot in Tampa.

Photo credit: Courtesy of the Special Collections Department, University of South Florida. Digitization provided by the USF Libraries Digitization Center
Quoting charlottefl:
A black and white photo taken on January 19, 1977 of a woman named Yvonne Berry cleaning snow off of the windshield of her car in a parking lot in Tampa.

Photo credit: Courtesy of the Special Collections Department, University of South Florida. Digitization provided by the USF Libraries Digitization Center

The wide lapels were a dead give-away.
00Z GFS run is going on as we speak. Day 1 done and 15 to go.
Quoting hurricane23:


It's still early, but this has the potential to be like what your graph shows. The high is of polar origin, and those are the ones that can give southern florida very cold temps. We'll see how the models do over the next few days.

Adrian


If models are already going that low, I would not at all be surprised if Florida sees all-time record low temps! If not this one, then the one behind it. Orlando stuck in the 30's despite full sunshine? It's happened before.
1591. Patrap
Gilda Radner SNL

.."Nevermind"..

ps.
I was 17 in 77 and well,the eyebrows and Hair was hard to tell sometimes,..LOL

Yeah,No men wore wide lapels in 77,.

Right,..Double LOL
1592. Grothar
Let us see if we can arrive at a consensus on the blog. Is the person in the picture a man or a woman? Now remember, a consensus is not an established fact, just an opinion expressed the majority of a group. Therefore, one need not feel compelled to withhold their opinion, lest it be attacked by others who have an opposing consensus. Anyone know how to form the plural of consensus, that would be a true revelation.
Quoting Bordonaro:
00Z GFS run is going on as we speak. Day 1 done and 15 to go.
takes about an hr for complete run update


A black and white photo taken on January 19, 1977 of a woman named Yvonne Berry cleaning snow off of the windshield of her car in a parking lot in Tampa.

Photo credit: Courtesy of the Special Collections Department, University of South Florida. Digitization provided by the USF Libraries Digitization Center

There. Those belong together.
1595. Patrap
Mack-o Beer is How much in Kroner?


GOM IR Loop
Thanks KOG! Can you put up the model run showing the N Pole view? Thanks.
1597. TBPauly
Quoting weatherbro:


If models are already going that low, I would not at all be surprised if Florida sees all-time record low temps! If not this one, then the one behind it. Orlando stuck in the 30's despite full sunshine? It's happened before.


It sure has. January 28, 1986 was one such day... famous for a much more tragic reason.
1598. Patrap
Yeah..

Go at throttle up..


Space Shuttle Challenger that Morning.

Launch Pad pre-Launch








1599. Grothar
Quoting Patrap:
Mack-o Beer is How much in Kroner?


GOM IR Loop


The current exchange is about 5.8 Kroner to 1 dollar, therefore a Mack-o would be about $5 or 29 Kroner (Norwegian) (More depending on where you are)
Quoting TBPauly:


It sure has. January 28, 1986 was one such day... famous for a much more tragic reason.


The Challenger, right?
Quoting Grothar:


Hey, the woman in your picture looks just like the woman in my picture. What a coincidence.


That lady is my Aunt Bethany!

1602. TBPauly
Quoting tornadodude:


The Challenger, right?


Yep. And reading some accounts of that, they (the Air Force mets) thought the lows that morning would be even lower then they were.
Quoting TBPauly:


Yep. And reading some accounts of that, they (the Air Force mets) thought the lows that morning would be even lower then they were.


wow, that was one tragic day..
Quoting Chicklit:

No offense, but I think the name is 'Pat.'
And it's concensus.


And its consensus!!
Quoting TBPauly:


Yep. And reading some accounts of that, they (the Air Force mets) thought the lows that morning would be even lower then they were.


Correct me if I am wrong…but Pres. Bush II first act as President, was sealing the records of former Presidents Reagan and his father from the Freedom of Information Act.
1606. Grothar
Quoting Bordonaro:


And its consensus!!


That's just your opinion!!!! LOL
1607. Patrap
Report of the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident

(In compliance with Executive Order 12546 of February 3, 1986)
Table of Contents

Volume I



e. The lack of roundness of the segments was such that the smallest
tang-to-clevis clearance occurred at the initiation of the assembly
operation at positions of 120 degrees and 300 degrees around the
circumference of the aft field joint. It is uncertain if this tight
condition and the resultant greater compression of the O-rings at
these points persisted to the time of launch.

6. The ambient temperature at time of launch was 36 degrees
Fahrenheit, or 15 degrees lower than the next coldest previous launch.

a. The temperature at the 300 degree position on the right aft
field joint circumference was estimated to be 28 degrees plus
or minus 5 degrees Fahrenheit. This was the coldest point on the
joint.

b. Temperature on the opposite side of the right Solid Rocket
Booster facing the sun was estimated to be about 50 degrees
Fahrenheit.


7. Other joints on the left and right Solid Rocket Boosters
experienced similar combinations of tang-to-clevis gap clearance
and temperature. It is not known whether these joints experienced
distress during the flight of 51-L.

8. Experimental evidence indicates that due to several effects
associated with the Solid Rocket Booster's ignition and combustion
pressures and associated vehicle motions, the gap between the tang and
the clevis will open as much as .017 and .029 inches at the secondary
and primary O-rings, respectively.

a. This opening begins upon ignition, reaches its maximum rate of
opening at about 200-300 milliseconds, and is essentially complete
at 600 milliseconds when the Solid Rocket Booster reaches its
operating pressure.
1608. RTLSNK
Quoting Grothar:
Let us see if we can arrive at a consensus on the blog. Is the person in the picture a man or a woman? Now remember, a consensus is not an established fact, just an opinion expressed the majority of a group. Therefore, one need not feel compelled to withhold their opinion, lest it be attacked by others who have an opposing consensus. Anyone know how to form the plural of consensus, that would be a true revelation.


I looked up the word "consensus" in my Webster's Concise Desk Dictionary of over 125,000 words and their meanings Edited by P. H. Collin. I don't know who P.H. Collin is really, but he/she must be pretty smart if he/she knows the meanings of over 125,000 words. Your spelling of "consensus" is of course correct. Consensus, (noun), generally agreed opinion. I am attempting at this time to check with P.H. Collin about the plural of consensus, but I am not sure he/she stays up this late. I'll get back with you on that one.
:)
A singular consensus would be considered an opinion. A consensus needs more than one.
Quoting Grothar:


That's just your opinion!!!! LOL


Grothar, I used "spell check" to check the spelling. And I know that you're not looking forward to temperatures in the 40's, possibly 30's in South Florida.

It will be interesting to see how much of the Arctic dumps into the US the first 10 days of Jan 10.
Quoting Grothar:


Where were you at the time?


I was a figment of everyone's imagination. I never existed until November 26th, 1983(My Conception Day). But never born until August 11th, 1984.

I read about this snow event from the book 1001 questions about the weather. Speaking of which, it also claims Miami saw a few snowflakes on the Christmas of 82(I believe). And I can't forget about Orlando's White Christmas of 89.

I wonder if snow was the norm here during The Little Ice Age and Murander Minimum?
1612. Grothar
Quoting RTLSNK:


I looked up the word "consensus" in my Webster's Concise Desk Dictionary of over 125,000 words and their meanings Edited by P. H. Collin. I don't know who P.H. Collin is really, but he/she must be pretty smart if he/she knows the meanings of over 125,000 words. Your spelling of "consensus" is of course correct. Consensus, (noun), generally agreed opinion. I am attempting at this time to check with P.H. Collin about the plural of consensus, but I am not sure he/she stays up this late. I'll get back with you on that one.
:)


It is consensuses.
1613. Patrap
English Grammar on a Sunday Night..?

Sheesh...

Im playing hooky.
Quoting Patrap:
English Grammar on a Sunday Night..?

Sheesh...

Im playing hooky.


could play poker...
Quoting Patrap:
English Grammar on a Sunday Night..?

Sheesh...

Im playing hooky.


I was just being a wise-guy, please stich around! What is the NWS update on colder weather for later this week in the NOLA ara.
1617. Patrap
You dont wanna play Poker.

Unless you got cash.

We got plenty of Casino's here and in the USMC in the Middle of the Atlantic..well,I learned very fast.
Quoting Grothar:


It is consensuses.


So are you saying a consensus is between two….and a consensuses is between more than two?
1619. Patrap
Usually we get what Houston Gets,but depends on angle of the trough,or if a GOM Surface Low rides South of one,below NOLA..we can get clobbered behind it.

Like in Dec 23-25 89,..Low of 11f the 24th and 50 Hours under freezing was BAD.

Nana...you are an expert in language!
1621. Patrap
December 22-26, 1989: Arctic Outbreak

The most significant cold spell of the century for the Deep South. New Orleans experienced 64 consecutive hours at or below 32 degrees Fahrenheit and a total of 81 out of 82 hours below freezing. A total of 15 hours were below 15 degrees with the lowest reading of 11 degrees on the morning of the 23rd. A low temperature of 8 degrees was recorded at Baton Rouge. Snow and sleet paralyzed transportation systems where as much as two to four inches of snow accumulated in Lafourche and Terrebonne Parishes. Snow and ice covered the ground in New Orleans. The greatest impact was on breakage of water pipes in homes and businesses. Over 100 fires resulted in the New Orleans area within a 24 hour period due to a loss of water pressure and improperly utilized heating sources. Ice formed over shallow lakes and waterways where commercial fishing took heavy losses. Five weather related deaths occurred in the service area during this rare Arctic outbreak.
1622. Grothar
Quoting RTLSNK:


I looked up the word "consensus" in my Webster's Concise Desk Dictionary of over 125,000 words and their meanings Edited by P. H. Collin. I don't know who P.H. Collin is really, but he/she must be pretty smart if he/she knows the meanings of over 125,000 words. Your spelling of "consensus" is of course correct. Consensus, (noun), generally agreed opinion. I am attempting at this time to check with P.H. Collin about the plural of consensus, but I am not sure he/she stays up this late. I'll get back with you on that one.
:)


HE did not write the book, he is the editor of the book, as he is with numerous other books in many different languages. It is not unusual for someone to know more than 125,00 different words. I am sure if he were asked some of the words in the dictionary, he might not know the meaning. Anyone who has studied other languages knows who he is.
1624. Grothar
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


So are you saying a consensus is between two….and a consensuses is between more than two?


That would be consensual. LOL
Orlando has had a two days with maximums in the mid 30s.

Jan 21, 1985 High of 36, at 12:01 am and 4 p.m.
Dec 25, 1983 High of 36, 4 p.m.

Orlando has no record of accumulating snow--the 6" is a fake from wikipedia. The state record for Florida is 5"
The coldest high for Tampa was 36 on Feb 8, 1895, a week before the giant Gulf snowstorm.
Quoting Grothar:


That would be consensual. LOL


Alright you smarty gaflukanooen...what is the longest word you can type on the left side of a regular keyboard?
1628. Grothar
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Alright you smarty gaflukanooen...what is the longest word you can type on the left side of a regular keyboard?


aggregate!!!!!!!:P
Quoting Grothar:


aggregate!!!!!!!:P


How about stewardesses
1630. Grothar
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


How about stewardesses


They are called Flight Attendants now. One must be politcally correct!
It just sticks in your kanukanogen that I am right!
Daytona Beach coldest max 33 on Dec 25, 1983
Gainesville coldest max 29 on Jan 21, 1985
Fort Myers coldest max 42 Dec 29, 1894
Jacksonville coldest max 27 Feb 13, 1899
Key West coldest max 49 Jan 26, 1905
Miami coldest max 45 Feb 19, 1900 & Dec 24 1989
Pensacola coldest max 25 Dec 23 1989 & Feb 13 1899
Tallahassee coldest max 22 Feb 13 1899
Vero Beach coldest max 41 Dec 24 1989
West Palm Beach coldest max 40 Feb 8 1895



1633. Grothar
Quoting Bordonaro:


I was just being a wise-guy, please stich around! What is the NWS update on colder weather for later this week in the NOLA ara.


Hey Bord, I don't like those low temps. It really does look like a blast is coming. When do they think they will know the exact timing of the fronts? I know you keep track more than I. I know that you called the Nor'easter last week, days before there was any media hype. Keep us posted on this one.
from NWS Indy forecast discussion:

HIGH PRESSURE WILL THEN BUILD IN AND PROVIDE A DRY DAY TUESDAY.
CHANCES FOR SNOW RETURN ON WEDNESDAY INTO FRIDAY. ARCTIC AIR THEN
MOVES IN FOR NEXT WEEKEND.

Quoting tornadodude:
from NWS Indy forecast discussion:

HIGH PRESSURE WILL THEN BUILD IN AND PROVIDE A DRY DAY TUESDAY.
CHANCES FOR SNOW RETURN ON WEDNESDAY INTO FRIDAY. ARCTIC AIR THEN
MOVES IN FOR NEXT WEEKEND.



Hi Matt...Is artic air moving into Indiana rare during winter?
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Hi Matt...Is artic air moving into Indiana rare during winter?


well it depends on the magnitude. we see sub zero temps a couple times each winter.

hey btw haha
Quoting Grothar:


Hey Bord, I don't like those low temps. It really does look like a blast is coming. When do they think they will know the exact timing of the fronts? I know you keep track more than I. I know that you called the Nor'easter last week, days before there was any media hype. Keep us posted on this one.


Forecast Discussion out of NWS Miami, FL indicates 2 fronts will pass through FL. The first is a pussy-cat, passing through on Tuesday or early Wednesday. The second one is a lion, expected next Sunday.

There is a very large pool of bitterly cold Siberian/Arctic aid bottled up behind a stationary front from Vladivostok, Russia to the NW Arctic. The second batch is pooled up behind a stationary front positioned from Southern Alaska, into NW Canada.

The first Arctic front is getting ready to move into the US tomorrow. The air is cold, -10 to -20F air from N Canada. Nothing out of the ordinary, for Canada. Your first cold front for Tuesday/Wednesday will bring temps about 5F below normal.

By 1-2-10, a major L will develop over Alaska and move southward into NW Canada by 1-5-10. This is called a "Polar Vortex", because these storms will force the SECOND batch of Siberian air into Canada. Temps right now are in the -40 to -50F range. Cold, serious cold.

Computer models dump a portion of this Arctic air into the US later this week, Friday through Sunday. Next Sunday, expect highs in Miami in the mid 50's and lows in the 42-48F range. IF the ECMWF computer models are correct, a LARGE chunk of cold air will move over 2/3Rd's of the US. Let's hope that is NOT the case, as you may see highs near 45F/lows near 32-38F in Miami.

We will know by Wednesday/Thursday coming how much Siberian air will feed into the US.

Link below the NWS Miami, FL Hazardous Weather Outlook, 8:54PM EST, 12-27-09:


Link
Let's hope that is NOT the case, as you may see highs near 45F/lows near 32-38F in Miami.

Whoa! I live north of Grothar and that means colder for us. Is that for real? Drak, if still on..a possibiltiy?

Coldest highs in Indiana:

Evansville, IN -3 Jan 20, 1985 & Dec 22, 1989
Fort Wayne, IN -11 Jan 20, 1985
Indianapolis, IN -11 Jan 20, 1985
South Bend, IN -8 Feb 9, 1899
Quoting tornadodude:


well it depends on the magnitude. we see sub zero temps a couple times each winter.

hey btw haha


Don't think I could handle sub zero. Wearing a sweater down here when it is in the 60's ):
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Coldest highs in Indiana:

Evansville, IN -3 Jan 20, 1985 & Dec 22, 1989
Fort Wayne, IN -11 Jan 20, 1985
Indianapolis, IN -11 Jan 20, 1985
South Bend, IN -8 Feb 9, 1899


wow... brrrr
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:
Let's hope that is NOT the case, as you may see highs near 45F/lows near 32-38F in Miami.

Whoa! I live north of Grothar and that means colder for us. Is that for real? Drak, if still on..a possibiltiy?



a portion of the NWS Miami, Fl Area forecast discussion 8:54PM EST 12-27-09:

A COLD FRONT IS FORECAST TO MOVE ACROSS SOUTH FLORIDA EARLY
MONDAY AFTERNOON, LEADING TO AN INCREASE IN NORTHERLY WINDS AND
DETERIORATING CONDITIONS ON THE LOCAL WATERS. SIMILAR CONDITIONS
ARE EXPECTED ONCE AGAIN LATE THIS WEEK, FOLLOWING THE PASSAGE OF
AN EVEN STRONGER COLD FRONT.

MINIMUM APPARENT TEMPERATURES WILL FALL INTO THE 40 TO 45 DEGREE
RANGE FOR A LARGE PART OF MAINLAND SOUTH FLORIDA, WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF THE SOUTHEAST COAST, BY TUESDAY MORNING, WITH VALUES
POSSIBLY FALLING INTO THE 35 TO 40 DEGREE RANGE ACROSS NORTHERN
INTERIOR LOCATIONS. MINIMUM APPARENT TEMPERATURES WILL LIKELY FALL
INTO THE 30S FOR MOST OF THE REGION, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE
IMMEDIATE SOUTHEAST COAST NEXT SUNDAY AND MONDAY MORNINGS,
FOLLOWING PASSAGE OF A STRONGER COLD FRONT LATE THIS WEEK

Link for that is below:

Link
Rich...do you think any of those records will be broken this winter season?
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Don't think I could handle sub zero. Wearing a sweater down here when it is in the 60's ):


gets cold for sure :P
1645. bassis
31 deg in dover NH and lots of black ice tonight after all the rain
Coldest lows in Indiana:

Evansville, IN -23 Feb 2, 1951
Fort Wayne, IN -24 Jan 12, 1918
Indianapolis, IN -27 Jan 19, 1994
South Bend, IN -22 Jan 20, 1943 & Jan 25, 1897
1647. xcool
hi all.and hey matt
Geoff, I doubt those records will be broken this season--but you never know!

Maybe the Theta Chi bros will go sailing if the records are in jeopardy ;)
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Coldest lows in Indiana:

Evansville, IN -23 Feb 2, 1951
Fort Wayne, IN -24 Jan 12, 1918
Indianapolis, IN -27 Jan 19, 1994
South Bend, IN -22 Jan 20, 1943 & Jan 25, 1897


then you add in the wind chill too :O cold!
From the "concencei" on the blog...seems like a cold weekend for so. Florida, but nothing record setting.
Quoting xcool:
hi all.and hey matt
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Geoff, I doubt those records will be broken this season--but you never know!

Maybe the Theta Chi bros will go sailing if the records are in jeopardy ;)


haha count me out! and hey Scott
Well those nights were when it was snow-covered and calm. All of them. So it would have seemed milder, like in Death Valley where it's a dry heat ;)
This is Rich--although Mike blogs here too.
Is Scott the new Dad?
Who is Scott?
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Who is Scott?


xcool
oh cool Matt--good to know!
Congrats Scott! The best to you and your family.
yes, definitely congrats! hope you and your family are well!
GFS 0Z Run. 2 meter Low temperatures for 1-4-10*

Hi all, I'm back from my week away down at my parents place, will upload photo's later tonight.
1663. xcool
thank alot
Aussie~ welcome back.. This looked like an interesting book out of your part of the world..Beyond Reasonable Drought.

Quoting xcool:
thank alot

Congrats Mate! It's a great feeling isn't it. I cried when my two were born, both times. Enjoy it mate.
Quoting Skyepony:
Aussie~ welcome back.. This looked like an interesting book out of your part of the world..Beyond Reasonable Drought.


Thanks, yes would be an interesting read. Just wait till you see the photo's I took while I was away.
Complicated by Very Extreme Pattern Setting up for the East. Could a 93 Rival Storm Occur?

read more from here

Link
1668. aquak9
g'morning Wu-bloggers

all quiet except for the impending polar vortex..

oh and a 5.3 in the Indonesian area.
1669. IKE
37.0 degrees outside my window....right now.

Song stuck in my brain this morning:)
Stop Getting Sick! Easy Ways to Stay Well All Season
SELF.com
By Lucy Danziger, SELF Editor-in-Chief - Posted on Sat, Dec 19, 2009, 5:44 pm PST

Link
G'mornin Ya'll.
1673. IKE
Morning....I've got a low of 36.3.

Looks like a sunny day.
Silver Spring, MD: 37 %uFFFDF

Partly Cloudy
Feels Like:
37 %uFFFDF
Barometer:
29.79 in and rising
Humidity:
52 %
Visibility:
10 mi
Dewpoint:
21 %uFFFDF
Wind:
WNW 14 mph

Wind is actually more like 20-30 mph and it does not feel like 37F...more like freezing!
OH, Good morning! We have the same temps as Florida!!
We still got the big blast commin or has that changed already?
1676. IKE
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
We still got the big blast commin or has that changed already?


From what I've read it may not make it as far south as the models were previously indicating.

Defuniak Springs forecast high for Saturday has gone from the low 40's to around 51.

Although I read this from the Dallas morning discussion....

"SOME UNCERTAINTIES IN THE
FORECAST FOR THE DAY 7 AND BEYOND PERIOD AS A BITTER COLD AIRMASS
MOVES INTO PARTS OF THE EASTERN AND PERHAPS CENTRAL U.S. THE
WESTERN EDGE OF THE ARCTIC INTRUSION COULD AFFECT NORTH TEXAS...
BUT THERE ARE STILL UNCERTAINTIES ON THAT PATTERN THIS FAR OUT."
o i c ....

Ya cant trust the long ranges. Dont get excited 'till its iminent!
Congratulations Scott.
Cold is comming again, will the frost make it down to Florida this time?
Plants in or Plants out?
Dying cyclone brings life to farmers



When it rains ... Max Chandler at the flooded Castlereagh River which runs by his property near Gilgandra. Picture: James Croucher Source: The Daily Telegraph

IT WAS a spectacular end to years of misery - a dying cyclone hurtling across the country, bringing the most rain in a single day for more than 100 years.

Even the threat of flooding couldn't dampen the joy of farmers about to plant winter crops.

"We've been hanging out for rain for four or five months as things have been very dry out this way," Max Chandler said, as he toured his 3600ha Bowenleigh property along the Castlereagh River.

"It's too late to plant our summer crops but this certainly gives us an early start on our winter crops.

"We've also been handfeeding our sheep and cattle for the past three months. Hopefully now we'll get some grass growing."

Since Christmas Day, 221mm of rain has fallen on Mr Chandler's property near Gilgandra in the state's Central West.

More than 40mm has fallen on Sydney since Christmas morning but that pales in comparison to Uralla, near Armidale, which recorded 88mm of rain in the 24 hours to 9am yesterday - the most in a single December day since records began 107 years ago.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Farmers in the Gunnedah region admitted to waiting in the rain to begin planting cereal crops, hopeful of securing bumper returns.

The weather system that began as a cyclone off the West Australian coast is expected to continue to dump heavy rain across the state for a fifth straight day today.

The downpour has prompted authorities to issue warnings for five major rivers, with thunderstorm and flash flooding warnings active last night across NSW from west of Bourke to the Queensland border, south of Dubbo and to Bulahdelah, north of Newcastle.

Gilgandra Mayor Doug Batten said the rain was great news for farmers. "This year we had the offer of a good harvest but we just missed out on vital rain in August," he said.

"This sort of rain and this sort of ground moisture will give us a good start moving into 2010."

The SES has received more than 250 calls for assistance since Christmas Day, mostly in Central West of NSW and on the North Coast.

More than 100 SES volunteers, nine flood-boats and seven helicopters - used for supply drops and to check on stranded livestock - have already been summoned to the Central West region.

Spokesman Terry Pappas said the main concern was for rural properties along the Castlereagh River near Coonamble.

Send us your best photos to photo@dailytelegraph.com.au

The Bureau of Meteorology was predicting the river would peak at almost 5m last night.

"Basically, that means moderate flooding. The township is safe at this stage but there will be a lot of rural isolation downstream," Mr Pappas said last night.

"A lot of farmers and homesteads will be cut off from the main town."

Premier Kristina Keneally yesterday promised State Government support if the areas under threat are flooded.

Weatherwatch director Don White said the flooding would have been worse if not for the dry spell leading up to Christmas.

"The last six weeks have been exceptionally dry over NSW and so the flooding hasn't been as bad as it could have been," he said.

"In some places the rainfall is just catching up to normal."

Rain is predicted again today in Sydney, with showers possible for the rest of the week.

But Mr White said it was unlikely to be such gloomy weather for New Year's Eve.

"There will be a shower or two around and a little bit of instability but it shouldn't dampen the spirits too much," he said.
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Don't think I could handle sub zero. Wearing a sweater down here when it is in the 60's ):


I moved to West Palm from South Bend, IN about 7 years ago. I don't go up there in the winter anymore, lol. Mainly because it's hell getting back, 17hrs first time, 15hrs last time, stuck in an airport because of snow. Also because last time we went 2 years ago it was -5 with a wind chill of -15, eeeek. My wife's first breath of cold air too, she's a Florida Native. Let's just say mama was NOT happy at all, lol. We didn't stop shivering the whole time we were there. Not that we're wimps, just acclimated to a little higher temp now.
top of the world view

JB this morn. *Read at your own risk*

MONDAY 8 AM

STATIC ATTACK WARNING FOR MUCH OF THE NATION NEXT 2-3 WEEKS

That means, for those of you who have hair, alot of problems ( I am getting rid of that nuisance) and for most of us, the dread of electric shock. I feared this time of the year as a child as my sadistic little brother thought it amusing to charge himself up in his footsie Pajamas and shock the daylights out of me while I was minding my own business near the Christmas tree, whirling one of these slippers with an attachment to it so I could make it spin like a cyclone and cause the tinsel to stand straight out like a hurricane flag. His comment to me would be that my hurricane ( that is what I was mimicking, a hurricane hitting a Christmas Tree) needed a thunderstorm

ah the best of both worlds.. a hurricane hitting a Christmas Tree, Actually a Christmas eve storm in New england in 1994 brought hurricane force gusts and heavy rains as it turned west northwest toward New England and wound up sout of it. It was a very warm storm. But hurricanes at Christmas? It was I who tried to envision that! It was Al Gorish in nature. So there I invented global warming, not Al Gore.

The bottom line, there is alot of cold weather on the charts the next 2-3 weeks, but you already knew that. I dont know if you knew the terror cold weather supplies for me. I was stunned, upon returning home yesterday, to find that Santa Clause left Jessie ( my daughter) a similar pair of footsie Pajamas. He left me a pair of Homer Simpson Pajamas. Jessie's comment "Heh Daddy, arent these the kind of Pajamas that Uncle Matt used to shock you?" does not bode well for me. While you people may enjoy cold, and I certainly am appreciative of it being around for my overall winter idea, the terror lurking in patterns like this can not be comprehended unless you lived through this kind of situation.

That Matt was not bothered by an electric shock, and I was, should speak volumes as to why he was ( still is, he can throw a football still 55 yards..he threw it over 70 when he was in college) a better athlete than me. I am rational, he is not. There I got the last shot in after all that pain.

If you are still reading this after my babbling, let me get to point number one. A number busting shot of arctic air is coming into the northeast tonight into Thursday.. How can we tell that. Well we really dont know until after it goes by whether I am right,.. but lets take NYC. The lowest temp for Wed am is 19, down from the 22 it had yesterday. I will take 15 and lower. The threat of 10 degrees will rest on whether they get blasted by a snow-squall late tonight as the arctic front comes through. The Emperor of the north loves to lay down a white carpet when he comes a calling. That arctic front is in the northern lakes now and there should be some wild snow squalls, and these are synoptic in nature as well as lake effect, coming southeast into the lakes today and the interior northeast tonight. Some of them will survive to the coast from NJ north and lead to a problem. This is a classic set up for this and some wild squall events ( 1-2 inches in one hour in one place, and 10 miles away, a dusting) may survive all the way to the coast. I saw a situation like this in early December of 1977. The key is the max coming from the northwest with the air cooling from 5k-up as the front is coming in. The lift from the front ( the lower levels are not that cold in front of it), plus the cooling, moist air above allow it. It is more a meteorological curiosity than it is a major weather event, but I am drawing attention to it because it may be more than just some flurries. The model has 30 at NYC tomorrow afternoon, I say its 25 or lower at 3 p.m. and the high is probably before 9 am.

Now lets switch to Dallas where more winter malice is on the way. When was the last time it snowed 3 times in Dallas in December? The first part of the two part storm I have been brewing up for this week is likely to be snow from Dallas north. The GFS looks over-warmed. But for most of Texas, this certainly has been a December to remember, and though not a crushing storm in the southern plains, it will be one that causes problems as snow is put down on the roads. This then continues northeast through the Ohio valley to the mid and north atlantic states.

Now, whether there is a big snow event or not in the northeast, I am hoping that the rational among you see what I was talking about. We have gone from the GFS sending a storm out to north of Bermuda by Thursday to one that comes to the coast and sends a small piece out, while energy comes from behind and deepens it so much, it pulls up into the coastal plain. Looks over-reactive to me, and a far better solution is to weaken the first area of precip as it comes northeast ( remember that was supposed to be the storm that took off out to sea) and then take a low from Savannah Thursday night to Cape Cod Friday night. This is a less well behaved event, more like early December, though colder rather than the blizzard. The high is in the wrong place ( moves offshore) but great dynamics pile in Friday and Saturday, so this winds up, when we look at it as a lot of 1-3s and 2-4s from Texas to the northern mid atlantic, and then from Pa and north Jersey northeast, things can really get down to business. But while the upper dynamics are great Friday and Saturday it is like a great chef with only hamburg rather than filet for the meal... It can still taste good to some, but not to everyone.


But I will play with accumulations later today. Put it this way.. the threat of 6 inches or more is northwest of where it was during the blizzard in the mid atlantic states and much of the northeast, but accumulating snow should fall in most places that got over 6 inches of snow with the blizzard southeast of the main axis of monster snows.

But if it had been warm and snowless so far this winter, just think alot of people getting this would be jumping for joy. And with my static attack warning for the next few weeks, its not like this is it, winter is over. Far from it, and almost the opposite. While not able to give details here, my private services clients which have had this cold winter in their forecast since early summer, have just have me make a cold January even colder! This in the face of the CFS which for some reason is warm in much of the nation now in January. It completely missed the west even in its now-cast for December ( Salt Lake City is 7 below normal where it had it over 5 above, as the nowcast for the month) and I suspect what happened in Europe in December with that model is about to happen in the US. The most amazing thing is its 700 mb forecast looks good, and with a deep min near the east coast and blocking galore, I cant figure out how it comes to the surface forecast. If the Euro weeklies are even half right, its off. But too me, this whole thing just looks like we are stepping down into an abyss. The scary thing if you look at the el nino, it is forecasted to fall apart the rest of the winter ( it has reached its peak) and a moderate nino collapsing has end games such as 1966,1958,2003,2007 for mid and late winter!

Its like this could be simply one cold hand off to another.

But I digress ( what else is new) For many of you, the snow is gone, but not for long as as much of the nation should be covered with snow on New Years Day as Christmas, though the depths will be different.

thanks for reading, ciao for now



SUNDAY 9 PM


NEW VIDEOS ON LINE

The Big Dog goes over the next 7 days and looks at the GFS interpretation of the storm later this week. I like the overall idea as outlined yesterday, that this will be a two part event with the second being the one that can really blow up, and its a bigger threat for the northeast this time then mid atlantic ( though the mid atlantic will have some snow with both of these systems. Anyway give it a look


The astounding European forecast is shown on the Long Ranger with the two January 1-15 N Hemisphere anomalies from 1977 and 1985, the two coldest examples worldwide, compared against them

thanks for reading, ciao for now ****
I have just finished uploading the photo's I took while i was away. You can find them here
New Blog
1685. hydrus
Quoting AussieStorm:
I have just finished uploading the photo's I took while i was away. You can find them here
Aussie, have you heard more news about damage from Lawrence? I heard it hit land twice as a 5, Is this true?
1686. hydrus
Quoting aquak9:
g'morning Wu-bloggers

all quiet except for the impending polar vortex..

oh and a 5.3 in the Indonesian area.
Poor Indonesia with the bloody earthquakes. You would think they would get a break already.
Happy New Year all!