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The Katrina catastrophe

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 12:53 PM GMT on August 30, 2005

As news reports begin to filter in from the hardest hit areas, the scope of Katrina's destruction is slowly being realized. Remember in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew, how there was a lot of relief about how much worse it could have been, and how well Miami fared? This cheerfulness faded once the search teams penetrated to Homestead and found the near-total devastation there. The fact we have not heard at all from the areas hardest hit by Katrina--Slidell, Bay Saint Louis, Pass Christian--means that these areas have probably been mostly destroyed, with substantial loss of life of those who failed to evacuate. While the winds of Katrina were only of Category 3 strength when the storm moved through these areas, Katrina's 20 - 22 foot storm surge was still characteristic of a Category 5 storm. Remember, the all-time record for a storm surge in the U.S. is 26 feet--from Hurricane Camille--and Katrina's storm surge was close to that level, but covered an area three times larger. And with a two block long breach in the Lake Pontchartrain levee allowing the entire city of New Orleans to flood today, we are witnessing a natural disaster of the scope unseen in America since the great 1938 Hurricane devastated New England, killing 600. Damage from Katrina will probably top $50 billion, and the death toll will be in the hundreds.

Katrina now
Katrina is still a tropical storm, but is rapidly losing her ability to cause destruction. Her top winds are only about 40 mph at 9am EDT, and the storm is moving quickly enough to the north-northeast that extensive damage from flooding is unlikely over the Tennessee valley. Rainfall amounts in this area have been in the 2-4 inch range so far, which will cause localized flooding problems. A few tornadoes are still possible, mainly over Georgia and Tennessee.

What's behind Katrina
Tropical Depression 13 dissipated yesterday, but is being watched for signs of regeneration. If it does regenerate, this system is probably only a threat to Bermuda. Another area of concern is a strong tropical low pressure area midway between Africa and the Lesser Antilles Islands. This low has a large ciculation and a small amount of deep convection trying to build over it. The low has some modest wind shear it is fighting, but the real impediment to its development is a very large area of dry, dust-laden air surrounding it. The dry air will probably keep the low from developing into a depression today. If the low does develop, the early track models forecast the system to track northwestward over the open Atlantic Ocean.

Dr. Jeff Masters

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Hopefully, the few select few on here who said this storm was all hype will see that it wasn't.
I agree with you on the storm damage totals. CNN is posting a number around 16B but that isn't even going to be close. Damage was too widespread. This is my neighborhood that got 9-10 feet of surge in Santa Rosa County, FL..


Im in a hotel now with dozens of residents from the hardest hit areas of Biloxi and Gulfport. That area seems totally cut off just like the hardest hit areas of Ivan. The storm however is more widespread than Ivan was and thats really saying something.
Note from News:

Lists of Insured losses are adjusted for inflation. Ex Andrew actual cost was 15B. Adjusted to show 22B.

As of yesterday Katrina was estimated @ 9 to 26Billion. Much of the damage has not been seen or discovered.

Natural gas supplies also in trouble from the Gulf platforms. Most of the electric power in Fl. is from natural gas.
Is there another depression out there? Or Am I just seeing things
Dr. Jeff hit the nail right on the head. As the pictures and facts come in, we are talking TOTAL devistation in MANY areas. Sure, we avoided a 10 of 10 on the damage scale...however, I think we will find that we indeed get a 9 out of 10!
We here in Destin feel so fortunate and blessed that this storm didn't come in our direction. Our thoughts and prayers go out to all that are suffering and will continue to suffer for a very long time. So sad.
I was watching CNN a few minutes ago and heard Jeanne Meserve telling about the people that were stranded and could not be rescued because of failing light. It was so powerful, it brought tears to my eyes. This is not over yet. I think we will see and hear lots of horror stories in the next days or even weeks.
It's really bad...but it could have been much, much worse...still gonna be one for the record books, though...

Yes they are going to have a hard time no matter what. I heard on the news that a project 1 to 1.5 million people where displaced by the storm and it could take months before people could be let back into the worse hit areas. Which could be longer if the secondary effects of this hurricane happen (ie disease outbreaks, leeve's giving way, another tropical system, chemical cleanup etc.. etc..)
in ivan i remember that my first indication that pensacola was hit hard was that there were all kinds of damage reports from mobile and fairhope-- but silence from pensacola.

i fear the same thing for bay st louis pass christaine and those areas-- only the loss of life may well be worse.

the fears that people posted here-- the tens of thousands dead, etc.-- were posted in the dead of night facing a landfalling cat 5 storm. they have to be taken in that context. when i was watching ivan wobble toward orange beach on the battery operated tv with the winds raging around the farmhouse i was in, let me tell you, i would have predicted catastrophe too.

meteorological trianing bte has little to do with damage estimates-- there's a whole subspecialty involving strucutral engineering, how winds interact with buildings and trees-- strong privacy fences, for example, do a hell of a job attenuating winds and this is a new area of research structural engineers (not meteorologists) are researching. i think texas a and m or nc state. obvioulsy at cat 5 strength little stands up to the winds but some structures (and not just reinforced concrete ones) for some reason do and the question is an engineering, not a meteorlogical one.

so everyone who made catastrophic bodty count predictions the night before landfall-- they get a bye in my book. and the people that give them hell-- well, get a life.

I agree the only sure thing in forecasting hurricanes (among other events) is their is no sure thing. As far as the death toll we will not know the true death toll until probably Christmas if not later (look at 9/11 it took them 6 - 8 months before the final death toll was annouced, not to mention they probably missed a few since they is still over 10,000 body fragments that can not be placed with a exisiting corspe or matched with another body)
The devastation won't be just isolated to the states along the coast. When Camille hit in '69, it wiped out an entire town near here in southwest Virginia. The flooding was so bad from her rains that it took entire houses off their foundations and floated them down the river. The town just disappeared and many were killed because there are never any calls for evacuations this far inland, just warnings not to drive through rising waters. Thankfully this time Katrina is far to the west of us and it we'll only get a few inches of rain. But seeing what happened here so many years ago on the news last night, I'm keeping everyone in her path in my prayers today.
I lurk here because I find the information useful and interesting. Yesterday, there was someone named HurricaneGuru who posted an ignorant comment saying this storm was a "dud". No hurricane is a dud. It's obvious you've never been in one. Shame on you HurricaneGuru. I hope you think before you speak next time! I am sure the people that are on their rooftops waiting to be saved would NOT think this storm was a "dud" !
David, As a structural engineer in south Florida I can tell you even post Andrew building codes do not call for withstanding cat 5 storms. In eastern Palm Beach County, the design at ground level is for 140 mph in 30 second gusts, not sustained winds. Eastern Broward and Dade a little higher wind loads (150 and 160), inland and up the state less wind load (128 and less). That would mean lower wind loads in areas such as Ponta Gorda, Destin and Panama City. The home prices in south Florida are some of the highest in the country, so you can't design for everything. In some of the less affluent areas of the state you are making a decision between an affordable house, or no house at all.

The codes already do take into account how developed or open the area is around you. ASCE has split that into 4 catagories which is used in the design formula, just like the importance factor.

The reason some wooden structures stand while others fail is under constant study, but some factors relate to how much the building can give. In Key West, the oldest homes were built by ships carpenters and give with the wind. They bend but don't break, much like a palm tree. One lesson, never buy a house with gable ends if you expect winds.

Flooding? I leave that to the CEs.
Hurricane survivor,
where is that shot taken? My aunt lives on east bay off ward basin road (still in a FEMA trailer with weeks left to get into her new house). I hope it didn't flood before they could even move in. Dennis knocked the FEMA trailer over, but didn't flood the house.
This storm was monster. I live close about 5 miles east of the Santa Rosa County line in NW Florida. I drove home from Lake City yesterday and could not beleive that at 4:00 we had a storm surge of 5-6 feet in the Santa Rosa Sound. I live along the North shore of a small lake 1300 ft from the sound. Water from sound had flooded the houses and road to the south of the lake. The water in the lake had risen 3 ft. Thank god the low tide was 7:00 PM. I am just amazed at the surge more then 200 Miles away. much greater then Dennis which came ashore less then 15 miles away. Approaching Ivan which was about 60 miles away. Incredibly the gust were still 50+ at 10:00 last night. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of those closer to the storm and us.
anyone have any idea if i-10 going east to mobile is open?? I have looked on mississippi web site any couldn't find anything.. any info would be helpful.
good morning everone
Does anyone have information on the aftermath in Diamondhead, MS??
Good morning Lefty. Welcome back.

Good morning Wombat. Try the link. It should have a live feed out of Mobile. They should be able to tell you if I10 is open or not.

right now info is very limited. the red cross is trying to set up some kind of a infrastructure to get info on loved ones in harms way. there is no phone service in parts of missispi. u might want to try tocall the red cross and they might be able to direct you to who might have the info on that particluar town.
good morning jax. i feel alot better today. i think i slept 15 total hrs yesterday. should have slept moreover the weekend as i was no good for anything yesterday.
I don't think very many of us got the sleep we needed during this storm. Major deployment is going on right now for adjusters, relief workers, power workers, etc. Sleep deprivation will become a way of life.

Good to have you back. Hopefully, the trolls are gone for a while.
thanks guys
i think after the scope of what happened became aware to the trolls they realised the error of their ways. many people came in here eysterday talking bout doomdays threats were false. i think they now see they were far fromfalse. 80 percent of nola is now underwater and it continues to rise. they don't know how to stop it. not tomention the destruction we see in miss and al, most of the major destruction we won't even know about or see for sometime. reminds me of after andrew when evryone came out and thought we had dodged a bullet only to see the truth 24 hrs later. the major problem is communication is gone. we have no way oof knowing what is happening in some of those small towns that know one is reporting from, and its not over. areas still in the remanats path are under threats of flooding, and severe weather. i know where i am at in va we are gouing to see some severe weather today and most likely flooding from the rains in the moutains as we did with camille
This news station has some pretty updated info


God bless all in harms way

Info from a Lurker-

Communications in MS and NO will be crap for days. Ivan (the worst hit of last year) took about 2-3 days to get most cell sites back online and took down about 300 cell sites. Katrina will take far longer to recover from. Reports from my job say at least 663 cell sites down from Mobile to NO. Just insane.

My friends are going up to fix, and they say they are starting in Mobile and working west because they can't get around in MS and NO to get to the cell sites. Regardless of the carrier, you will get alot more outages today than yesterday since cell sites run off of generators with 12-24 hours of gas. No gas refills, no coverage.

This has been completely unbelievable.
well the repostd are diff from which ever news source u are watching but anywhere from 2 to 5 levess have been breached. the water is rising in the downtown and the french courter. martial law has been issued and the authorities are asking any one who can to leave the city. their greatest fear right now is they will be unable to support life in the city. they are running out of potable water and their are people trapped in their attics and on their roofs. the temps are going to be in the 90's with a heat index of 110 today. so right now the water is rising in mostof the city. some parts of no are under 25 ft of water ormore. its not getting better only worse
thanks tiger we appreciate the info

also forgot tomention there are fires in the flooded areas,mostlikley due to electrical shortages but who knows.
Here is some links to local newspapers (found via http://library.uncg.edu/news/ )


http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/29/scene.blog/index.html - not local but a good source of info








oriondarkwood thanks for the links. i am sure they will be useful to someone whos family is in harms way
there is oil/gas floating around the city as it fills with water... this is not going to be good.

they have no way of fixing the levees and the pumps are failing...

Hey Lefty, welcome back. Glad you could rest. This hurricane has been so bad for so many people. About the Super Dome, what are they going to go? The bathrooms must be useless by now. And the heat terrible.
I just heard on local radio (Dayton, OH, WHIO) that there is only 2 inches at most in New Orleans and the National Reserves have started repairing the levee and hopefully it should be undercontrol by this evening.
yeah. this is the biggest natural disaster in us thatmany of us will probly see
burdell, you're right about the post andrew building codes. and in the face of cat 5, not much stands.

however, i was at a presentation at the 2004 governor's hurricane conference and there was a presentation by structural engineers about new research they were doing on the interaction between buildings and surface winds and tress etc etc. so i think there are new ideas and new questions about that being explored. other than saying they are looking at this problem, my engineering ignorance prevents me from detailing to you more than what i just have.

and as you are probably aware, the difference in the post andrew building codes between the panhandle and the peninsula has mroe to do with politics than with engineering or meteorology. as one prominent leader noted a couple of years ago, the panhandle just doesn't get struck by hurricanes like south florida does. a laughable statement now, but taken seriously at the time, amazingly enough.
local radio is wrong om the 2 inchs. tulane hospital ,in downtown ,last night had 6ft of water from the breached levve in a 2 hr period, they were pleading for help. the water was rising 5 inches a min and they needed help as they had 1000 patientsmost on lifesupport and thier generators would be flooded and uselless soon. reprots from the french courter sugest atleast 5 ft of water and cars floating down the street
New to post, but have been following blogs since last hurricane season. Just wanted y'all to know I spoke to goularogue and they are safe, but anything south of 90 in Pascagoula, MS is destroyed. No one in their family has a home to go back to...brothers, sisters, parents, etc... They are all staying with their kids in one home that survived; which doesn't even belong to them. They have lost their homes, cars, etc... This is so heart breaking. They are like family to me. They are all at a loss on what to do next. Will keep you updated, if anyone cares to know. His brother is pascmississippi that also posts on here.
9th ward parish has water over the roofs of flooded houses and was tills rising late last night. peoiple trapped on roofs and in their attics screaming for help. had me in tears, tell them there is only 2 inches of water
Gator, the major of NO said that 80% of the city is under water. And the water is rising
thank you ctampa itsgood to hear they are alive and alright. property can be replace but not life
also i have been watching allnews networks this morning.i see alotmore than 2 inches opf water in downtown
Brian Williams was in hip waders this morning (which was a sight in and of itself) on the Today show. He was standing next to the SuperDome and the water was over his knees.
Here in N Ala., we have only been a little inconvenienced by the storm. It is sad and sobering beyond words to see the devastation to our south. I've been wondering about the folks in those lovely little towns of Bay St. Louis and Pass Christian. Like others, I fear greatly for them. My thoughts and prayers are very much with folks in New Orleans, Gulfport, Biloxi, and all the other towns that took the brunt of this storm. My heart is heavy for these victims.
Does anyone know if Search & Rescue made it down to LOng Beach, Pass Christian, Bay St Louis, or Waveland? Even for aerial views? Are these areas above or below sea level? We are frantic over my inlaws--they're in Pass and we've heard nothing. I've heard that in those areas up to 1/4mile inland is total destruction. Anyone hearing anything?
scrabblechicks we are glad to hearv u guys are allright. i think in the comming days everyone in the nation will have heavier hearts from this devestating storms
Thanks leftyy and orionwood and everyone!

My cousin took shelter at a church in Van Cleve MS. She went back to Diamondhead today to check her house. How she got there I don't know. But she said the house had some? water in it and a tree had fallen on it. Don't know if the water was caused by the force of rain or regular flooding. Am guessing at this point that Diamondhead's high elevation spared it somewhat.

Maybe this will give others concerned about that area a little idea of what the area suffered....maybe.
i heard little about those area but what i did hear was total detrsuction and the national gaurd and cost guard have flown oveer in helicopters and it might be sometime befor they can get in their. i pray ur family is alright and that all we see isloss of property. if i hear nay reports or see and views from those areas i will post them here. i do not belive,maybe wrong, those areas are below sea level and most flooding is or has recedded. they need to clear the roads to get the national guard in there and thats what they are doing now
kate1 thank you for the info.i am sure it will help somepeople. hopefully today will bring relief instead of grief to any one with family in those areas. we have an uncanny way to survive and i am sure we will see moving stories of survival in the comming days
Does anyone know how the French QUARTER is faring???
what angered me the most about the news coverage was how late last night fox news and msnbc no longer were live and just replayed what thye had aired earlier. alot of the destruction in downtown nola took place late last night and only cnn stayed on live all night.
last i heard the freench courter as flooded and the water was still rising, as well as most of downtown nola

this link also has a live video feed to see the water rising...

2 levees are breached... they are fearing more will go since they are starting to leak...
The radio in Dayton said 2inches of water, they expect a lil more but hopefully it should be ok.
Who do I contact to give their names to as unaccounted for?
Red Cross has 36 hr moratorium, do I contact the state officials? This is morbid, but it's something we must deal with, where do I go for information for body identification? I'm just lost.
Thank you for all the responses and well wishes.
Info on the levee situation in NOLA.

Newspaper article
once again the radio is wrong. they are now trying to evac the hospitals in downotwn. have not heard much more on tulane hospital but just heard that the medical center of la has flooding from the basement to the firstfloor and they are trying to get helicpoters or flying ambulances in to eveac those patients
anyone heard form stormtop? isn't he from pass christian?
call the red cross. i will try to find a number. they are the ones who would be able to help you.

thansk for the live feed from nola
Leftyy, with all due respect I am going to go with offical reports with some source backing it over what many people have said the last few days.
have not heard from stormtop and i am praying its cause of the scope ofloss of electricty and phone service. he seems hard headed enough to survive so i am sure we will see him in here with a story to tell. i really hope he is alright
gator, i have seen the flooding live on tv and i am watching the live feed. here is the link,i think those in la would no more than those in ohio

64. WSI
Anyone heard from HurryCane?
Gatorbait, with all due respect, a little bit of research on sites like wwltv.com - the NO CBS affiliate - would show just how incorrect that statement is.

Maybe the radio meant 2 inches in Dayton. Just look at the slide show on wwltv - that's more than two inches of water.
here is the number for national headquarters of the red cross. trying to find another 1-800 number for you

Phone: (202) 303-4498
no word on him either. i think it might be some time befor we see these guys get a chance to get on the net and let us know they are alright
My apologies Lefty! Thanks for the link.
here is the red cross webiste. u can get numbers to lacal chapters who with some luck u might be able to get thru to. hope this helps

Redcross website
yeah lefty...sormtop does seem hardheaded...but he was so right on with this one...why didnt he leave...he knew what it would bring! Hopefully he will have stories and pics for all to see!
its ok gator, in a time like this info is the hardest thing to get or belive depending on the source. and sometimes it hard to belive or imagine the things we will see in the next fewdays
Gatorbait must be a troll... Yes, that Daytona radio station must have all the breaking news right now, sheesh. Lefty, thanks for the links.
wrcpilot thank you but lets try to understand that with the lack of communication its hard to belive everything you hear and i would have been the same way had i not heard someof the things i heard and saw late last night on cnn and again this morning on the live feed. alos he appologised showing he cares.
The drama is over ... now we get to wait through a long tragedy.

1. Don't expect to hear about the dead until they have rescued as many of the living as they can find. The water will have to go down before they can start finding bodies trapped in houses and debris.

2. Don't expect to be able to call in or out - most phone services will be restricted to local calls only for days.

3. Cleanup will take months, and between FEMA, the insurance companies, and environmentalists, I think that some areas may be declared unbuildable and given back to the water. FEMA has done it before for river floods ... refusing to pay unless the buildings were rebuilt elsewhere.

Wrx, no offense , I have been here for 3 days, I am not a troll. It was a radio station in Dayton, OH, but a national news report. There have been many things said the last three days that were not true and I am trusting links from sources. Lefty provided me with one and I appreciate it.
thank you twifob. chilling but realty is that way sometimes
its all good i got ur back gator, and i understand. we will all learn the horro of this in the comming days.
thank you earl, any word on what theyfound
The AP said, "Water lapped at the edge of the French Quarter." Beyond that, I don't know, Steve. I work for a newspaper, and I'm keeping an eye on the wires. If anything more than what we know already comes across, I'll post it here.
82. IKE
Listening to WWL...the big 870am radio station...even the announcers have lost their cars, etc. It's bad in NO...real bad.

To those that were on here downplaying it...I wish I could say on here what I want to...but I don't want to get banned!
thank you earl
The coast guard has started operations ... here is there link to valuable information...


they have info on anything you need right now... hopefully the people that need this info can access it right now
thank you ike. we all feel the way u do
hope this helps.www.wdsu.com. live tv out of jackson,ms.
thank you haarp hope it helps some people
Thanks Earl. If you can, please keep us posted on this.
Hello To All...Power was just restored to me after the last 28 hours without it...Trees are still down on the roads and powerlines everywhere.My house remained intact, thankfully because we stayed here.My fence; however did not.But that is nothing compared to others not very far from here.The winds really plowed through here...And I am just in between Baton Rouge and New Orleans...
Swampgirl, glad you and yours are all right, and that your home is intact. We're certainly praying for everyone who was in the path of this storm.
swamp girl glad u are alright
cnn has a reprter on the air form bay stlois now
taking break from cleanup and to watch noon news to catch up, hey leftyy, doing OK?
Thankyou scrabble chick.We have many friends that I ask you to pray for that did not fare well at all.My home will be their home until they can find out about theirs.It is a panicky situation to not know for a long period of time what you have left.But they do have their lives....
so far they don't have nay reports of causalties yet.
watching ABC affiliate feed right now
yeah i am ok. just needed somesleep
power out here almost 60 hrs and only cat 1... most neighbors still out, don't know why our pocket has power. just grateful
Thank you lefty...And thank you for all of your work the night before this thing hit...You kept some of us briefed and informed during those dark hours while we still had power.I don't know if anyone can relate to this, but I will admit...Last minute...I really started to second guess if I made the right decision to stay...But it was too late to leave.I prayed the entire night and early morning hours.
wow what a story. this poor waoman just described how she ahd to crawl out of her home from the surge and had to cling to a tree for over 3hrs durring the heart of the storm. just the first stories we hear from bay st loius
in biloxi one apt. complex collapsed apparently killing 30
swampgirl, glad you are safe
cguard hacked thru a roof into attic to get a woman out of her house
i am so glad u are alright. i had people getting on me becaue of how i hyped it up yesterday and my words to them was it could ahve been alot worse and i will take being wrong about it than to be right. really happy u did make it and it wasn't any worse than it could have been
Thank you cgables...Appreciate the thoughts and prayers.
interviewing a man in NO who has lost his wife off the roof of his home when it split apart, has his son...
last night the reporter from cnn was on the phone crying, it hurt so much, she could hear epople in the dark screaming for help and the things she heard from rescuers aboput part of the flooded areas were beyoond belief
is that the same man who lost his wife, that one had me crying. he couldn'thold her and he can't find her
lefty, some folks are never happy.
when catchaser comes on, I've got a couple of choice, chaste words of my own for him/her?
Likes to hit and run, so...
you and me both lefty, I think the same guy. heartbreaking.
Lefty, i can only speak for myself....I feel grateful that you were painting the picture with all of the possibilities.I was prepared for the worst.I got the better end of the deal.Don't listen to the ones that give you flack.If it helped one person then you did a service.It helped me.
yeah i just gotoff for the day, i needed the sleep as i was drained and i knew in my heart i did everything i could to help from where i am and that was all i could do. it hit me hard yetrday,the scope of this , and those guys who came in here would see this was far from just some storm
thank you swamp girl, i am in tears right now
114. HAARP
More links for FEMA help and also for fo on the aftermath and how we can help those who need it





Also several CERT teams are going to be heading down there from Illinois to help as soon as we get clearance from FEMA to do so...I am sure other states will be following suit as well.

I want everyone to know that the worst is still to come in regards to this... over 1 million people are going to need shelter/food/water and that is going to take the biggest relief effort in our nations history.. WE ALL MUST HELP
115. HAARP
More links for FEMA help and also for fo on the aftermath and how we can help those who need it





Also several CERT teams are going to be heading down there from Illinois to help as soon as we get clearance from FEMA to do so...I am sure other states will be following suit as well.

I want everyone to know that the worst is still to come in regards to this... over 1 million people are going to need shelter/food/water and that is going to take the biggest relief effort in our nations history.. WE ALL MUST HELP
than you haarp, i am sure we all will do all we can, and if u don't have much to give people, gogive ur blood. ur blood can do somuch more thasn u realise right now
It is an emotional time for us all.I think things will just get worse before they will get better.When the number tolls start coming in on the deaths from this storm...It is a sad sad time.Keep up the prayers...And THANKYOU again.I am going to clean out the fridge...Bye for now.
Thank you for the Bay St louis updates, and the fema links.
I feel as if I'm chasing my tail trying to scratch up one smidgeon of information. FOr the bay, how high did the waters rise, and how far inland? I"m just trying to get a visual for Pass.
Lefty the video clip about the guy who lost his wife is on CNN.com...that is so sad.
i heard reports of 30 ft surge with giant waves on it. the lady who was in the tree for 3 hrs said it had to be over 40 ft high cause her house was 30+ ft high and the water had almost covered her house as it destroyed it. this is all prelimanry and from reports from the first images of bay st loius
121. wpb05
all these looters need to be shot on the spot....what a pathetic excuse for human beings....just sickens me terribly
prettyeyes, i can't even imagine what he went through as is still going thru, and his poor kids. i fear we will hear more fo the same in the next few days
well no has issued martial law, u have no civil rights in no right now and i am sure some looters will be shot.
officials in no is going to try to plug the breach by dropping 300pound sand bags into the breach from helicopters. also sad to say 2 people have died in the superdome. no word on what cuased it, but i imagine it was due to the horrible conditions in there
125. IKE
Joe Bastardi says watch out in the Gulf of Mexico/Southwestern Atlantic this weekend...early next week for possible development. Might be something else around in about a week.
Lefty I give blood everytime I can...they said 1 pint can save 3 lives...and right now I'm wirking in my 3 gal. pin..almost there. Come on folks roll up those sleeves.
that would be just a disater. i had that same thought with the next to wave scomming off of the african coast show potential for development. lets hope he is very wrong
boy, what a long three days.... not enjoying the storm aftermath photos at all
yeah i give blood myself all the time. they actually call me, i have some rare blood type apperently but i don't even know what type i have. so i usually get a call like once a month and go down. the bad thing is my wife would lovetogive blood but ironically she doesn't weight enough. she is a smallwoman.
130. IKE
I think he thinks there's something that will develop near Florida by 5 or 6 days out. Looking at the latest GFS I think I see what he's talking about.
i'd like to give blood, but the meds i am on and an hysterical needle-phobia make it impossible.

i'm sure i can find some way to put my oar in to help
yeah i saw that too but right now i don;t have the energy to even want to see whats out there.
icebear i am sure u will
134. IKE
Thanks lefty for all of your insight into hurricanes. I really appreciate it and have learned from it.

Thanks again....
This has already been mentioned, but omg.

Break in 17th Street Canal Levee is now 200 feet wide and slowly flooding the City of New Orleans. Huge sand bags are being airlifted to try to stem the rush of water in that area. The expectations are that the water will not stop until it reaches lake level
ur welcome ike. glad i helped
137. tosca
yes, thanks lefty!!! still not much coverage over in Italy. Can't understand why.
138. HAARP
Watching the guy talk about watching his son and wife float away is the most horrible thing I have heard... As a father of a 3 year old this has cut deep in my heart...I must go give my son a big hug and kiss right now

times and stories like these make me take a step back from my "too busy to look" life and put some perspective about what life is truly about...

God bless you all ...
yeah and i was angry that the netwrok news agencies were not covering this. very upsetting.
exactly haarp. it doesn't hit home any closer than that. i felt the same way and i know as a father myself he did evrything he could to try and save his family.
Someone was asking earlier about I10 into Mobile. I just talked to a friend of mine and he said I10 was open from the Florida line into Mississippi.

Lefty, just woke up have to work tonight. Is the water in NO still rising? anyone know how bad the levee breach was?
thank you jax. i am sure thant info will help some people
hey storm. yeah most of this happened right after ugot opff last night. there is a 200 foot breacj in the 17th streat canal levee. they are now trying to stop the water by dropping sand bags into the beach. emergency evac have been issued in no and some hospitals down town need to be evac by air as they will soon lose their backup generators if the water does not stop rising
I saw it last night. Had a hard time sleeping, just did not have good information on the breach or how high water is expected to rise.
146. HAARP
It amazes me how foreign countries will again turn a blind eye to an american catastrophic disaster... It really bothers me that every time a country has a problem we step in and help ... when we need it most they turn their backs on us...

sorry this is off base but i need to get that off my chest...

while i am at it ... where is the guy that was blasting me yesterday for being a "exaggerator" ? BTW...no response is needed
from what i know it will rise until the lake lowrs to the level of the cannal and the canal lowers to the level of the breach. this is all speculation from all 3 news agencies and i have even heard reports that the lake might still be rising its self.
so true haaro and i doubt we will see those trolls today.
My GOD!! Where will all these people go? Are rescues evacuating them to higher ground?
150. wpb05
thats okay, we can have fundraisers on TV, a rock concert, and a president asking for money for tsunami victims...yet, when it happnes on our shores, this doesn't happen?? I have two words for other countries, which cannot be said here

While I understand the angst. The fact is we are far richer than most of the world. It is a good thing that we help them. I don't expect that Somalia, or India, or Indonesia, all countries we have assisted, have the resources to help. I for one am glad we have to give. It is much better to be able to give, than to have to receive.

If other countries choose to help I am grateful. If they choose not to, then next time they need help, I will hope we help. Doing the right thing is always right. And it does have it's own reward.
BTW, My sentence below should have read

I am glad we have the recources to give. It is far better to have enough to give, than to be needy and need to receive.
So does anyone know how deep the breach is? Are we lucky is it just a surface breach?
good words and way to live jax.
idon'tklnow storm but my thoughts are that thelonger the breach is there the bigger it could get
msnbc has a copter flying over mississpi right now. horrific scenes
157. wpb05
there are people to help in OUR country first, THAT is the issue......I don't mind helping oither countries, if we help our people first...that is NOT being selfish....we complain about other countries starving etc., yet we have a load of homeless here.......I don't want this to become a political/policy debate, but I just think it is sickening. It would sure be nice to even have words of sympathy from poorer countries...THAT doesn't cost a PENNY!!!!
storm, we are expected to get very damaging storms and a possibitly of tornados here where i am at today. i hope we do not see what we saw from ivan. will keep yall posted from any weather we see from this ever reaching storm. fo info i live in va
Dr. Jeff said something about that wave, I think. Seems like he also said that there was a lot of dry, dusty air around it. Let's hope that inhibits any formation. I have a cousin who lives in Mandeville, LA. They evacuated Saturday afternoon. Has anyone heard about conditions in Mandeville?
The governor of Alabama has sent some of our National Guard units to Miss. I'm sure our law enforcement, firefighters and utility crews will go down soon to help out, as they did when Ivan hit. Crews from Miss. helped us out after that strike. I know we will be there for them.
Those wanting to assist in the cleanup and recovery efforts can contact their local churches or other relief organizations. Please don't try to get down there on your own. The first people down there need to be Emergency Management workers and teams who are trained to handle these kinds of disasters. Go with a team in order to do the most good.
We can also help by donating to our churches and relief organizations. Some grocery stores, like Publix, also usually have a system set up to send supplies and donate money from the grocery bill to benefit these causes.
I know the people in Alabama are ready to do all we can to help our neighbors in Miss. and LA.
All I can get news on is the frickin oil that we should not even be using anymore. WHat is going on in NO.

Great the leader thinks now would be a good time to cut his vacation short. Just so you know I have been behind Bush, but he has really let me down in this situation. He needs to be at his desk pulling the needed resources together to save lives and the economy.
I heard on the news that Highway 90 is no longer there. Completly destroyed and that the water went back 5 miles from the beach. I find it hard to believe, but that was the news report.
162. IKE
Mandeville was hit pretty hard from what I heard on WWL radio this morning. Hopefully everyone is okay.
Really good local coverage from wwltv. They are detailing city by city what they know:

You know that some people stay behind specifically for the opportunity they know they'll have to rob people while they are gone. Bottom of the bottom of the scum.
btw WWLTV is near New Orleans
Elliston, I cannot get the player to work. Is there something wrong i am doing?
The official being interviewed on wwltv says that they believe that they have stopped the water coming into Jefferson Parish and that they are now pumping the level down. Let's hope he's right.
u need to have windows meadia player, and the latest version of directx, also need to open up ur internet options and make sure u have java enabled and you have selceted to play vidoes and sound in webpages. media player and directx can be downloaded for free just search on google
Got it working finally, had to do with my work's wireless
Thanks Ike and Elliston, for the info. I know there are a lot of people in NO who were unable to evacuate, and I can't find it in my heart to condemn them for getting food from grocery stores. Smashing ATMs and stealing other merchandise is another matter entirely, but no other freshwater might be available except what's on the store shelves. It makes sense to me for the police and fire fighters in NO to go ahead and clear store shelves and start giving food and water to people. If the water rises much more, the food won't be edible anyway, and if people can use it, they should have access to it--especially safe drinking water. Just MHO.
My wife and I just missed (by a quarter mile) the tornado that went through Stoughton, WI a week and a half ago. The damage was terrible, but this storm makes it look like a stiff breeze. God Bless those of you that kept/keep posting updates and predictions. God Have Mercy on the victims.

Regarding the trolls, we will always have malcontents among us. They like the attention and feel power when people react to them.
it's windows media player...if you're running windows it ought to just work. It is hiccupping from the load from time to time but we've been listening for some time now. I tested the link on a machine here that we hadn't been listening on and it worked.
I was incorrect about MSNBC being in Bay St Louis, it was CNN. My apologies. I see they are doing aerials of Pass, Long Beach & Bay St Louis. Are they showing this on cnn? any more info coming in regarding these areas?
wkrg out of mobile was on the phone with a reporter glenn austin in biloxi.he described a surreal scene of bodies in the mud,total destruction,dazed people milling about,no food water,looters, no national guard,few police.he described a truely horrific situation. wkrg.com.
They are now interviewing another official who says that water from the lake is still coming in...who can say. Maybe they have fixed everything but the one that goes to lake.

Somebody asked how high can the level go, I would think that since the water can escape out to Gulf, it can't get any higher that the levees that would, ironically, be holding the water in from escaping out to the Gulf.
or I suppose since the gulf is higher than the city, it couldn't get higher than the gulf.
CNN played an amazing amateur video showing the 18 ft storm surge in downtown Biloxi while Katrina was hitting the city. It was taped by a CA man from pretty high up a hotel. The mass of water is just incredible.

Of course the guy is an idiot because he wasn't a trapped tourist. He flew in specically from Cali to Biloxi because he "always wanted to see one of dem" hurricanes. Here's hoping he goes home to his house flooded from a backed up toilet or something.
Katrina is hitting the gasoline market hard - wholesale price close to $2.40/gal thats a 64 cent/gal jump since late last week with half of that just today. Better fill up now cause $3/gal gas is here.
Correct me if i'm wrong but the mess mid atlantic seems to be taking a turn north hopefully. I'm more worried about something popping up in the area that td10/Katrina got her legs under her. It looks like shear and dry air may stifle mid atlantic systems for the time being but what about the area where Katrina fired up??? LEFTY? Another hit now- anywhere will... well I don't know what to say about that.
Hello everyone. I am new to this site and noticed the infomative entries and thought I'd see if anyone knows any information about Ocean Springs, MS. It is located just west of Biloxi. My mother, aunts, uncles, grandfather, cousins live there. I have an aunt in Slidell, also, but I know she has evacuated. My mother lives south of 90 and she went to my aunt's house just north of 90, both in Ocean Springs. I (like many) haven't heard anything, due to the phone lines. I have noticed that the news channels aren't mentioning the smaller cities. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
fredwx, where is here?
hiseasdrifter, do you mean bodies in the mud in biloxi or in bay st louis?
if anyone hears of how travel is on i-10 east to mobile is will you please send me an email i have tried some listening to wkrg on line but haven't heard anything. or if anyone knows an alternate route to take that is passible thru miss... let me know. email is kls_rc@yahoo.com thanks,
Your local gas station very soon!
185. tosca
That guy from California is an idiot. Storm chasers only put the lives of rescuers further at risk if he needed to be rescued. I'm sure he made his money from that video and is happy, but it could have cost him his life and maybe someone else's.
wombats, I'm hoping you aren't going to try to drive in. Most likely you would be stopped before you could get anywhere near the damaged area, but even if you weren't, returning now is very risky. Please stay safe and stay out.
Wombats, I could be wrong, I've listened to so many news reports I'm getting dizzy, but I believe, hwy90 and I10 from NOLA east though MS are impassable. Where are you now and where are you going?
My husband's sister just called to say she'd gotten in touch with the Pass Christian PD & was able to give them her dad's name and address. They indicated they would go and check the address and let her know information within 2 hours. I have not spoken with her directly, so she may have the Pass Christian PD confused with perhaps Gulfport or Biloxi PD. Apparently, this is (unconfirmed) an option for all those seeking Pass info. I"ll post that number if I can reach her.
Someone was asking about Slidell earlier...I just heard a TV report saying that there is 50 feet of water in downtown Slidell. This seems to huge to believe....
earl,the reporter was in biloxi near the waterfront.
if i am not mistaken, miss ordered evacuations sat as did much of coastal la-- but the area that would take th elongest to evacuate and have the largestpopulation of people unable to leave by themselves-- they didn't order the evacuation until sun?

and a lot of people don't leave until a mandatory evac is "ordered." granted law enforcement isn't going to go door to door and drag people off-- but a lot of poeple won't leave until ordered.

the death toll will not be as high as many feared but it will still be high enough. while one death is too many, we know that someone will have a heart attack, someone will be killed by a falling tree, etc. but consider that here whatever the death toll is it could easily have been lower if the no municipal authorities had acted earlier.

has anyone been in their attic in the deep south in august? this is grim speculation, but there may well be people who will have escaped rising flood waters by going into their attics who will have no way out of their attics and who will now languish in the summer heat in their attics.

there will also be an epidemic of post traumatic stress. both among survivors (suicide rates, divorce rates, domestic violence rates, all will spike in the ensuing months) but also among emergency workers. this will spark higher turnover in emergency managers and so emergency management agencies stand to lose in the ensuing months the cadre of trained professionals who made it through this.

there may not be tens of thousands dead but there are hundreds of thousands casualties.
maybe I heard 15 feet...that has to be it...
El, WWL just said 20 feet on the outskirts. 15 feet in the downtown cooridor in Slidell
194. HAARP
"Someone was asking about Slidell earlier...I just heard a TV report saying that there is 50 feet of water in downtown Slidell. This seems to huge to believe....

he said 15 feet...

here are more local NO links

transportation link


LSU public info


femas phone number

800-621 fema
i'm in houston trying to get to mobile i have a very sick family member i need to get to... maybe leaving early thurs. i could make it.
I suspect the city govt. in NO is going to come under some serious fire for not ordering mandatory evacuation until Sunday. I'd rather be ordered out and come back to an intact home than not be able to leave because of traffic gridlock and be blown off the highway--or feel like I couldn't leave because of the risks on the highway. Me? I'd have been out of NO on Friday. But I'm a big chicken.
Has Anyone heard anything about New Orleans Uptown area or the University's in New Orleans?

Now that the Levee has broken I am wondering how bad it is in this part of New Orleans
198. crow
new here and have read many informative posts during the tragic event called Katina. Live coastal SE USA and will post as needed.
Wombat, I know it's a devil of the way out of the way, but I'd go up U.S. 58 (I think it's US 58) to Shreveport, hook up with I-20, then catch I-65 south in Birmingham. I know 65 is open all the way to Mobile. That way, you avoid the worst of the damage.
The hardest part is now before aid gets to them and then again, after the initial Red Cross and FEMA aid is tapering off after the first months. That is when these people are going to need alot of support. It's been almost a year since Ivan and I know people who are still fighting with insurance companies and/or were turned down for aid by FEMA. (meanwhile they gave millions to people in Miami last year) Alot of people are simply going to have nothing to go back to. At least if the storm surge completely washed their house away, they won't have to deal with stupid insurance companies fighting over whether the damage was caused by wind or water. I never thought to see worse than Ivan within a year..
I am glad the mood has sobered around here. Looks like the trolls have either gone into hiding or been kicked off. Good riddens. Glad to see all of the concern here this needs to spread. What has happend and is still happening is unfathomable. There should be no RANKING of these disasters. It is obviously becoming clearer to most people that this is nothing short of Catastrophic. I have been overwhelmed with emotion several times throughout this whole ordeal and I don't even have any relations in the effected area. The loss of life is the most difficult thing for me to cope with, the massive destruction is almost an afterthought. I hope that the survivors will get rescued and that enough water, Ice, food, medicine, will get where they need to. This country has gotten together before to make historic donations for other disasters around the world. Our fellow Americans need us today. Please donate if you can.
taking another break from yeard clean-up... ugh... hate Kat for the little it did here... and the massive it did there.
Had heard massive transformer explosions but didn't lose power again, just cable again... you are my only source for updates. unless I go to rabbit ears and soaps and judge judy... ::sigh::
scrabblechick, you're not chicken.

Ecclesiastes 9:4 teaches, "a living dog is better than a dead lion."
FEMA is mismanaged. No question. they paid burial and funeral for people that died BEFORE the big four ::rolling eyes:: and we got no effects down here in our little corner of the state. give me a break
LOL David. You're right. Cluck, cluck, cluck.
Yeah.......all of us "alarmists" went way f*cking overboard eh? It makes me sick to see my City, and MS, and AL like they are right now. I still don't know what if anything happened to my family in Metairie/Nola. Nola, Slidell and even parishes South are MUCH worse than we think, even now.

I do not live in the USA but in the Caribbean. Just to let you know that many have been in prayer as the Monster Hurrican Katrina developed in the Gulf of Mexico and turned twoward the US mainland. That prayer effort is being strengthened globally in the aftermath of this horrific devastation

World Evangelical Alliance has also begun the task of mobilisation of financial resources from congregations in countries around the world. Many developing countries don't have much to give but many will give through the Church what they can to be utlised through local churches in the affected area. That will never be covered by the big media but it will be happening in the days ahead.

Many people outside the USA will also make financial and in-kind contributions to international organsiations like the Red Cross. That will also probably go unreported by the media.

Some of our churches would love to send rescue volunteers but the restrictions on entry into the USA make this almost impossible.

Just to let you know that outside of the USA many of us care and are looking for ways to help quickly and effectively.
53rd, the suffering will go on for years. there are people here who still have Andrew flash-backs.
And yet, THU a great many were flipping this one off as just a bitty thing here for So FL, only a Cat 1, we went thru Andrew, who cares thype of thing and we got clocked.
There is a wonderful resiliency, but right now, you wonder how people make it, yet we do...
psea, you have to ignore the trolls and num-nums...
NHC and Dr. Jeff were both passing on the same info. Are we to call them alarmists as well? Max Mayfield called NO Mayor AT HOME to tell him SAT night to order the mandatory evac earlt SUN AM... otherwise Max said he wouldn't be able to sleep... just how could anyone on this list be more alarmist?
earl,the reporter was in downtown biloxi near the water.
this is so remeniscent of Andrew. We knew all about Miami and immediate surrounding areas and said, whew, not so bad, then when the choppers got over Homestead and outlying areas and REALLY saw what the eyewall had done... this is why I'm holding my breath. For shear numbers, it's statistically good it missed major metro area, as 13 years ago. But that NEVER lessens the human suffering and pain for those caught in the path
This is so surreal. I keep looking at the devastation on the TV screen and then out to my front yard with only a few limbs down and thinking about those poor people not so very far away.
WJTV in Jackson, MS justed reported the Mayor of NO:

"The Mayor also stated that all of Slidell (a city which he has no jurisdiction) is under water. Nagin also stated that there was no clear path in and out of New Orleans, that I-10 is underwater."
pnuckolls: I did find a few mentions of Ocean Springs on the link below. It's the Sun Herald newspaper. I'm afraid that the news is not great. I also just saw an interview on CNN of 7 people that were in a B&B in Ocean Springs that survived and there were some other people walking around, so watch the CNN headline news loop to see if they show it again. There are obviously people that made it through just fine.

I pray for your family. Just believe that they are OK. Even if they are fine they will not be able to contact you for some time, so just believe the best.

This link is to the story just about Ocean Springs, there is more info elsewhere on this site:

Sun Herald Story

Jefferson Parrish is under matiral law. In one week, you can go back to you "home", show ID, pick up any essentail items, and they be kicked out for another month.

All of the evacuees from NO, where do they go now?
216. HAARP
jefferson parish will be under martial law for 1 month... you will be able to get essentials in a week but then must leave for a month...

am an island girl myself, transplanted. I know the generosity of the island people. What is available is always shared, that is tradition. I just pray that after 2004 swept through the chains, that 2005 spares the Carib area... Know that while the media may not take note, many DO know
FEMA says that they are in the process of setting up "long term" relocation facilities. I imagine that we'll end up with something like refugee camps as these people will need someplace to go for quite a while.
219. HAARP
NO traffic is allowed into NO...at all

the causway bridge is undamaged
cgableshurrycanegal: Thanks!
And you know, its one thing to be homeless and have no food or water, and take something from a grocery store that been blown open. But you dont need an entire cart full of food!

And they just have those (#%$#^!$#%@#$@#!$) people who go and rob TV and stuff. I hope they get their ass kicked on the TV but 10-20 people. Maybe it might people think twice.
HARP I wouldn't be shocked if the Jefferson Parish Martial Law changed in the next week. The same thing happened in Hugo in 1989 and Andrew in 1992.
those fema trailer parks really are the pits. you have to really want to stay in your area to put up with them. So Dade lost a good 20% of the population immediately and that was with uninhabitable homes where folks pitched tents or had RVs next to them to stay... this is totally diff
224. HAARP
gator... that would be great news for those who live there...but if they dont have water/electric..etc...it could be awhile
thanks scrabble..
can't have martial law in us. something about military can't bear arms against its own citizens?
we had reserves here carrying their weapons UNLOADED!!!!!
How braindead was THAT idea? They finally got smart and that is why reservists do all the traffic, food, set-up and LEO's do all law

Looks like they built on a swamp. But seriously, this is horrible and our thoughts and prayers are with these people. Lets hope the rescue workers are safe too. They are risking their lives to save you. I saw on tv how the cops on the street were like, "we are trying to rescue these people and we don't have homes to go back too."
Off to work everyone. My thoughts and prayers are with the people in the effected areas.

Anyone have any info on how high the wter is goign to get in NO?
229. HAARP

FEMA can declare martial law in times of need...in fact, if the s*it really hit the fan they could declare martial law for the whole us. this is not a conspiracy theory it is fact and there is a presidential declaration authorizing FEMA to do so.
the first responders are always in the worst spot!
they are on alpha-bravo shifts and can't go take care of their own places, might not even KNOW about their own, might not even HAVE their own anymore. That happened alot here.
At NHC, they have facilities for the forecasters to bring their families in, very basic, but that way they don't worry about them while doing their job if we get struck
231. HAARP
they are evacuating the superdome

Gas is $2.63, here but Katrina is not the major cause of rising gas prices (she didn't help matters). Oil cost are skyrocketing because

* Worldwide demand
* Lack of refining factories in the US
* Lack of easily processed oil (most of the oil from Saudia Arabia requires much processing in contast oil from Venezuela is very easy to process)
* More investors have entered the market and is causing more spikes and dips in reaction to events they may or may not have long term effects on the oil supply (ie most oil supply orders are made months in advance)

If I have spoken wrong please someone correct me
A good link, seems to have some very useful information

maybe am basing on what I remember from Andrew. Back then it was ludicrous to see the Guardsmen with unloaded rifles standing guard... this town has so many folks armed to the teeth... they were sitting ducks.
Does anyone know if/when people who didn't evacuate in gulf port are able to get out? I'm not familiar w/ the area, but we're waiting on some friends trying to get out and come to Charleston, SC to stay for awhile. We've had not contact since 1:30 pm yesterday afternoon and are getting a bit nervous.
if superdome is isolated and surrounded by water what in the world are they going to do with 9000 people?
so frustrating to have had cable go out again and be limited in info
I hope you find them Peebs from a fellow Charlestonian. I would have gladly taken this hit if we could have kept it out of this area. Would not have had nearly the flooding problems.
9000+ People are showing up there rapidly due to the rising water from the levee breach.
WWL TV feed down again for me.....stops at the same place every time I restart it.
where are they evacuating the superdome to?
Gator I would think the first high ground they can find. THey are going to have to so it by air though with the water rising in NO.

I agree with you, however remenber they are there to keep to peace not provoke or escalate a battle. Not to mention I am sure they have ammo on them and have orders to shoot the kill if they are fired upon first. That is miltary peacekeeping SOP (Standard Operating Proceedure)
If they are having to bail from the superdrome and they is no way out but air. Then it going to be bad since say you can airlift 5 people to safety every 10 mintues. It would take you almost 34 hours just to airlift 1000 people. Not counting on refilling with gas and crowd control.

Plus remenber they are doing that at a hostipal in NOLA as we speak
244. HAARP
I dont know where they are evac-ing to but I would guess out of the city to higher ground...I think that the conditions at the superdome are so horrendous by know that they are making a strong push to get everyone out ...plus the rising floodwaters probably will make it more difficult if the flooding gets higher which it looks like it will...

heard a guy near the 17th st canal say the water was flowing backwards...that levee breach must be growing

about the whole martial law thing...Its not like they are going to start a war...they just are going to protect whats left so they need to keep everyone away...by constitutional rights they cant force you away from your house but martial law superceeds your rights...I also doubt that there guns are/were unloaded...the military doesnt carry unloaded weapons...they might say their unloaded but I wouldnt count on that
For those that want a map/sat of the superdrome


Has anyone heard from StormTop since he decided to weather the storm?
The water is 3 ft outside the dome per CNN. Maybe they can still bus em out to Baton Rouge? or another shelter?
In case anyone knows of people traveling west on Hwy 90 looking for shelter. The Methodist Church in town has opened a shelter here.

I have been called down there to assist but wanted to post this first.
249. wpb05
person just jumped out of the superdome??
250. amd
i read something on another blog which states that some geologists were extremely worried that the surge up the mississippi may change the flow patterns and cause large amounts of water to surge into New Orleans. They stated that there were changes to the river to faciliate easier flow of barges, boats, etc. up the river, and if the storm was powerful enough, it could wipe out those changes, and restore the original flow of the mississippi.

If this is indeed occuring, it may be days, many days, before the flow of water into New Orleans ends.

I critizied the alarmists on this board yesterday, but frankly, the alarmists reports, from both real and amateur scientists and meteorlogists, have probably saved thousands of lives.
Governor, I know your compassion is a comfort to people reading this board. It certainly was to me. I know these folks are grateful for your prayers, as well.
Via WWL TV - Some building near the SuperDome is now burning.

SJ, whats up? man what happened to squam who said that NO wasn't that bad?
amd i appreciate u for cooming in here and admitting that ur were wrong yesterday. and i can say from the bord ur forgiven. amke sure u donate anything u can and go give blood as it will be in short supply
ANy information out of Pass & Long Beach yet?
Gatorbait, can they get buses in and out of that area? Boats would make sense.
Am I not going to the right places for information?
None of this is on the websites for CNN or FOX, correct? all on tv? Those sites aren't giving anything!
Lefty, good to see you on, not real sunny in richmond today, so I don't think we have a high risk or tornadoes, how about up by you?
AMD, you're right. Even minor hurricanes have wiped out barrier islands, so this one must have totally reshaped the river delta. Fox News is reporting the south half of Plaquemines Parish is gone!
wellnot so sure we are out of the clear, i am more worried about someslowmoving thunderstorms. remerb the flooding in richmond last year. would hate to see that happen again anywhere in the state, but right now just cloudy and there are some scattered showers and somethunderstorms in the sw part of the state
BTW, I can't wait for satellite photos. The shape of the state is going to be a lot different.

WWLTV has a good live video feed with most of this information on New Orleans and the surrounding area.


thank you! We're still desperately seeking Pass Christian news.
Anyone anywhere predicted at what level NO will crest? This is unreal. Hope they do not rebuild there.
i heard waist deep but we will see.
I'm watching the WWL-TV stream. WWL-TV has totally evacuated NO, along with other TV stations. The entire air staff has gone to BR. They reported that they passed many National Guard and law enforcement personnel coming in. They are also reporting prison breaks/riots at the Orleans Parish Prison.
just drove through the rains of Katrina here in Dayton, OH.
the only thing I have seen of Pass Christian was an article in the Sun Herald saying that the National Guard had tried to go in yesterday evening but turned around when they encountered a house in the middle of 2nd street. There is also the following line in their town-by-town reports: "Flooding on Beatline Road at the 90-degree turn. . . . House in the middle of the road on Second Street." That's all so far.
Hey squam, I told you so...unfortunately
ear12603 - PASS CHRISTIAN: My brother was able to get into the Pass today from Mobile. Our home on the beach (The "Dixie White House")is 22 ft above sea level and we had at least 6 ft of water through the home. Camille did not flood this house. He basically said the town was wiped out. - GG
271. amd
chris, i hate to say this, but we may be witnessing the beginning of the worse case scenario for new orleans. On CNN, the army corps of engineers stated that the damage to the levy at 17th street is really bad. The structure of the levy has collapsed, and it will take a few days for it to be prepared.

The main issue is however that there is a 3rd levy, the biggest levy in new orleans that may be showing signs of strain. (By the way, I got this from CNN, who got this from the army corps of engineers). If indeed, the water flow is from the mississippi, instead from below the ground, it may be a matter of time before that levy fails.

If that actually occurs, it's game over. New Orleans will begin to flood rapidly, and only the newest structures will be structually sound.

And, even if the other 2 levy's are taken care of, and the flow of water is stopped into the city temporarily, if the mississippi is causing the flow of water into the city, the lakes surrounding the city will eventually overflow other levys too.

I REALLY HOPE I AM WRONG ABOUT THIS, but this may be the beginning of a harrowing next few days for New Orleans.
depending on the military assets deployed, they could probably evacuate the superdome to a military facility somewhere else-- sort of like what they did with the mariel refugees. they could probably accomplish the evaucaiton in plenty of time to avert a major health crisis BUT maybe not in time to help people who have mroe imedtae needs (like insulin, dialysis, etc).

if the worst case was the levee breaching during the storm, this has to be the second worst case.

how much below lake pontchartrain is new orleans? what was it like before the levees?

the moayor of new orleans is no rudolph giuiliani or even richard daley. he's on the same level with the woman who was mayor of chicago before harold washington-- the one who couldn't deploy the snow plows for the blizzard of 79.

that can't be good
Quite frankly I'm suprised more stuff didn't fall down. Doesn't NO have like the worst termite problem in the US. Plus hearing about floating rafts of fire ants scares me. How would you like to be freaking out floating in the crappy water already, and run into a swarm of ants.
hooked on tropics. the sun came out about 2 hrs ago. this will not be a fun night if it stays out.

for u guys wandering what i am talking about. all last year we here in va were devestated by tornados from the hurricanes. the nws stated we should be clear as long as it stayed cloudy as the heat would cause the instability. will keep u guys posted on any weather i do see here.
flood warnings here in southern indiana - it won't rain for too long, but it's falling hard. the sky is just amazingly saturated with moisture. it's always so strange to see the clouds going the "wrong way" when one of these monsters fights its way this far north. *sending good juju and a red cross donation to the people in the gulf coast*
So, when can we start blaming the French for builing a city BELOW all the high -lying water?
aethyric, that sucks. I use to live there, my parents still do. Last thing they need is more stuff happening to them. They live in Newburgh, IN. Its next to evansville. Last year they had a tornado whipe out half their neighborhood. Luckily they only had roof damage. The tornado was literally 200 feet from them.
hey big thats not what happened. they built it on a rivwer delta which is just lose sediment deposited by rivers. after they firsty built the city she was at sealevel. over all thew years the city settled to the level we see today.
281. IKE
CatChaser.....you're one miserable person. You can't feel happy looking at yourself in a mirror. Hope you enjoy yourself....
Double G-
Thank you. THis is a nighmare, and we are helpless in being able to obtain information, whether or not my father in law is even alive right now.
LSU has postponed it football game Saturday, which was to be played Saturday indefinitly. I had originall heard 9/5 (Labor Day) but they are looking at an October date.
I live in SW and we have a tornado watch here. I wasn't aware that it was even possible to have a tornado here, we live in the mountains!
There will not be an evac of teh Superdome for a few days except for those with special needs. Per LA Governer
This link is providing updates as they come in from news conferences by officials in Louisiana, for those of you who cannot upload the live feed:

make that I live in SW Virginia.
Actually, thanks everyone. This has been the most valuable resource we have right now other than live tv, which we can't see during the day. Thanks for all the helpful links, snippets of information, advice, etc.
We here in W GA really appreciate the info in efforts to locate our unaccounted for loved ones.
Recently, NO realized they were sinking faster than anticipated. The levees sank too.
290. afs
Catcatcher... people died because loudmouths like you tried to pretend Hurricane Katrina was no serious risk to people's lives.

Leftyy, Orleans77, and others like them talked some people checking this blog to evacuate from New Orleans. There were lives saved because those people did evacuate.

Catcatcher... why don't you personally tell people in Louisiana that you were online attempting to talk people out of evacuating from New Orleans when you show up in Louisiana in a few days. Let's how THEY respond to your bullshit personally. Please video the event. I'll pay cash money for that video-tape.
bigbabu-- good point. how like the french to build a city BELOW sea level, knowing that when the big one hit, the massive price tag would be borne by the americans. sort of a dien bien phu in the new world.

on a more serious note, has anyone noticed that the news accounts all talk about people who DEFIED the evacuation order? as in, all the poor people who dind't have cars and maybe didn't even know that there WAS an evacuation order. the evacuation order was given too late-- maybe some people did decide not to leave but i suspect the vast majority couldn't get out or didn't know about the order. let's not blame the latrter group of people.
...I also doubt that there guns are/were unloaded...the military doesnt carry unloaded weapons...they might say their unloaded but I wouldnt count on that

HAARP, back from a work break... trying to multi-task today, not easy when heart not in it.
Fact: the guardsmen's weapons were NOT loaded. I lived the story. This was immediately post-Andrew. Not some urban legend. A great deal was learned from our experience here. FEMA responds more readily, deployment of basic necessities, not requesting donations of foodstuffs but rather monies. All that was learned on our backs.
Guardsmen carried unloaded weapons. It horrified civilians of good intentions.
Hindsight is always 20/20.

LEFTY, SUN IS OUT IN RICHMOND... hopefully not for long...
The French Quarter is the only place not under water. - The Governer
catchaser--you're making me nauseous.
Someone has estimaed that the WWLTV Webcast had about 250,000 hits before the storm hit.

Im wondering what they are up to now?

And is this the only TV station in NO? Or the only one with a webcast

(And Lefty - good to see you back)
298. WSI
Ok, people, lets not feed the trolls. The more you feed them, the more defiant and asinine they become. Just let them be. If they want to waste time spitting filth and crap here, let them. Just don't give them the dignity of a response. Most of them are probably teenagers at home waiting on mommy to feed them supper anyway.
catchaser, you're back... ::evil grin::
You are such a loser, you hit and run. What a coward.
Y'day you accused people of making up stories about being worried about friends.
I certainly don't need to. I've traveled the Americas. I network through a variety of interests around the world. I don't have any need, any more than others, to make stuff up.
Just b/c we happen to have some compassion for others and you clearly live a miserable life doesn't mean you have the right to spread your muck everywhere.
Since I can't banish you, I CAN ignore you. Therefore, you can post all you like, you are less than nothing and I suggest to the rest of the group that they not rise to your pathetic attempts at baiting.
Just saw this on the wwltv website. I guess everyone has to go now.

"With conditions in the hurricane-ravaged city of New Orleans rapidly deteriorating, Gov. Kathleen Blanco said Tuesday that people now huddled in the Superdome and other rescue centers need to be evacuated."

301. amd
Just Read Steve Gregory's new post. It seems that I'm not the only one worried about the integrity of the biggest levy in the world, which could fail soon.
CatChaser, go help those people and stop putting everyone in the same category. This place is for blogging. What the hell else are we suppose to do here?

Look, this is an awkward time, we have people dying and people stranded. I can not get there to help. I have stated my concerns, but these remarks are ridiculous. Come on, man.
It had never occurred to me (not the engineering type) that the worst part could be post storm, if the levee system goes, this could be a nightmare scenarion out of a b-movie...
Im going to float an idea by you guys-

What would you think about the Fed Gov't (FEMA?) allowing for emergency loans BEFORE the storms hits? I know that there is a lot more than money stopping people from properly preparring and evacuating, but could it hurt?

Many have you have pointed out that it was maily the poor who didn't evacuate. I know that there were some middle class and even wealthy who got stuck (we have the president/owner of a bank who is still in NO) due to lack of flights or rental cars, but lack of money was the #1 reason.
305. WSI
You all think about this and tell me what comes to mind. Did everyone in the media and around the states pay too much attention to what could (and for the most part, did) happen to New Orleans, that the surrounding states may have taken the storm too lightly? I wonder if everyone spent too much time on New Orleans that people in surrounding states figured they might not get the worst part of the storm? Yeah, yeah, I know, if you are in a hurricane warning, pay attention. However, I still wonder if people took it lightly because of the focus on New Orleans. Mississippi took a pounding that was as bad or worse than New Orleans.
Every (at least from what i've read) was under the impression that it would take a specific storm (cat5) hitting at the right angle (some of you talked about having to write thesises on this topic) for NO to be completely flooded.

Many people, including me, relaxed a bit when Katrina dropped her intensity, and starting veering off to the NNE a few hours before landfall. It looks like she was powerful enough that it didn't matter that the conditions were not perfect.
ESPNNEWS is reporting that the Superdome is now being evacuated. ( I was just turning to leave the hurricane news dfor a bit can't escape it i guess)
A Question about storm surge for those in the know that I have been wanting to ask for some time and just found all of you knowledgable folks.

I face north on Biscayne Bay on Miami Beach on one of hte many finger islands that extend west into the bay, in the event of a direct hit on Miami Beach it wouls seem that all of Miami Beach would for a time be covered in water, at a minimum because the general water level in the Bay rises (is this right ?). As we are on the ocean, it would seem logical to think that the waters will recede somewhat quickly after the storm passes. I am totally off target, or does that make sense.

Thanks for any help.

I stated that yesterday. Similir to what happened to Charlie, because most of the news coverage was focused on what could happen if he went through Tampa Bay.

The news focused on NO because the "nightmare" scenario was probably something that most non-NO people did not know about, and it is far more impressive to talk about the total destruction and flooding of a major city than the flattening of Buloxi or Pass Christian. (Thats not my thoughts, thats the news directors)

It is the responsibility of the LOCAL news staions to properly identify the threat to their residents. If you are "in the cone", dont watch CNN or TWC, watch local news.
Damn right you were off base. Still not seeing those tens of thousands of corpses you insisted on.
already 100's found and whole communities that had people stay baehind were 100% of structures are destroyed or damaged can not be reached...
Well, when New Orleans was built, as someone said, it was at sea level. New Orleans is an old, old, old city and they don't have hurricanes in France, so I suspect it never occurred to the builders that their beautiful city could be demolished by a windstorm.
Those folks have been living on borrowed time for 200 years. Eerily enough, I saw something about this very scenario on Nova (I think) not long after the tsunami hit.
I don't know if the media coverage of NO before the storm seemed to minimize its possible effects on Miss. Anyone living on the Miss. Gulf Coast who lived through Camille knew what a monster like Katrina could do. I think NO is just such an iconic city that it was inevitable it should receive the lion's share of the media attention.
This could have happened with Ivan, if it had made the turn, or Camille, or the Galveston hurricane of 1900. Any of the monsters that have struck the Gulf Coast in the past 150 years could have hit New Orleans dead-on. They just didn't. Sadly, the odds finally caught up with them. I just wish with all my heart the odds had come even with a CAT 1 or 2 storm.
Alabama has sent 800 National Guardsmen to Miss., btw.
319. amd
Orleans, although the death toll will certainly rise, i'm not sure if it is wise to state that the death toll will rise to the 1000s. We simply don't know how many people didn't evacuate.

Valence, your points about national and local coverage are right on. The local coverage should have stated the extreme danger to life and property better.

Frankly, if there was a better coordinated effort to evacuate people, maybe the death toll will be much lower.

amd...its going to be over 1000 that i am certain....i dont think even now we fully know the scope of what has happened...
squam, have you checked steve blog?
the worst case scenario just may be happening, but in slo-mo. And you want a body count in the 1000s? Give them enough time to do a door-to-door check, get out into the surrounding country-side to the smaller communities as well. I do believe your appetite will be filled...
I am sorry to say...
I think the most devastating part of this storm is starting to show itself. (Im not the first one to point this out, by the way).

Look at the faces of the people being rescused from rooftops in the flooded parrishes. They are non-expressive. Not excited to be rescued, or sobbing because of the destruction, just blank.

We had a guy jump off of the roof of the SuperDome (I haven't seen it confirmed yet, just heard it).

With other hurricanes, even those as destructive as Camille and Andrew, homes, bridges, and almost everything else manmade may have been destryoed. People would come back to their home to find it comepletely gone. Nothing there but the foundation. But at lesat they could go back! Imagine how it must feel for these people to know that not only are their belongings and their home gone, but the land on which it stood may not even be there! Rebuilding is barely a distant dream at this point, not an eventual reality. Devestating. :- (
Tens of thousands dead , my ass. And I said less than 50% of NO would be destroyed, contrary to your 80-90%. City has seen plenty of flooding but no where near 80-90% of the city was destroyed
Hey guys. How are we, today? I really hope this place has cleaned up since yesterday.

Anyway, the damamge I'm seeing on TV is unreal.
I just read Steve Gregory's update, and I withdraw my statement yesterday that New Orleans dodged the bullet again. I feel really bad for all you people on the coast. I live in Kansas, and I feel almost selfish for being up here, comfortably out of danger while you all are going through all this. The people in Kansas City are starting a big donation drive and I'm sure other cities are doing the same. Hang in there and stay strong, we haven't forgotten you down there.
Are there just very few people here, or am I being ignored? No one is responding to me.

So im going to go for a while.

governor has ordered evac of all NO rescue shelters due to health concerns
valence - steve blog states a guy jumped in superdome
cgables, correction, you want that death toll, its why you are so certain of it. You are also optimistic that the "worst case scenario" can still happen. Arg, people are so weird. I guess the destruction and chaos thrills them or something. So optimistic and gleeful many of you are of high death tolls and destruction.
This is terrible. Suicide from the superdome. Flooding, destruction, just.. *sigh*
hey everyone i am back. hadto dosome house work
more nightmare scenarios: you are trapped in your attic in no-- and one of the trolls here shows up as your rescuer. do you stay or go?

steve gregory's blog was unfortunately right on the money as to intensity the night before it hit. he has been pretty darn accurate throughout. as they say, you can check the validation of his preidctions and most (not, all, but most) are correct and validated.

probably a wise decision to get as many people out of no as possible.

people who could have left but didn't: paying the price.

worse off: people who couldn't leave and got stuck in all this: for them this must be some sort of martyrdom.

at least for the people in southern ms, their areas may have been flattened but wheeled or tracked vehicles can still get to them.
Added to that, the destruction being the 80-90% of NO stuff, I'm not talking about the parts that really got revaged, Mississippi in particular.
turn on cnn. thery are showing some areil shots og northern gulf
It could have been worse: that is the saddest statement I have spoken on this blog. Had Katrina made a direct hit on New Orleans at its peak intensity, NO would be no more. Camille,Gilbert(Carribean),Hugo,Andrew,Ivan, and now Katrina. This storm is second only to the labor day storm in damage, this will be the most costly storm ever. The police chief of Gulfport said yesterday that it was nearly completly destoryed, The sad thing is that at my age, I have seen 6 storms that were called "once in a lifetime". So sad.
squam...u are showing your young age of 16 in your posts....by the time this is done there will be 1000s of deaths..and 90% of NO is under water..water filled with sewage, gasoline and chemicals....what do you think the effect of this toxic water will have on homes...those homes are toast...at a minimum they will have to be gutted...90% of homes in NO now have extensive damage..not fwom winds but from the toxic water flooding them...wake up kid
squam. been there, done that.
where have you lived thru it?
I'm a realist. I know disasters. You clearly live in a fantasy land. When in one township one apt. bldg collapses living 30 dead in MS, how do you NOT exponentially look at the breadth and scope of devastation in a major metro area.
I pray you are closer to the truth.
When I told a friend the tsunami count would be 225,000 and it was only 40,000, she hung up on me. I rest my case.
kefty they are evacing all of NO immediately....millitary airlift in progress...airline jets may be pressed into service
David, probably a wise decision? Why in the world wouldn't it be.
thank you gable...hed of Fema just now said that he would not be surprised to see 5000 - 10000 dead...maybe even more
yeah i saw that 77.
unreal...they have 6 hrs by estimates to get 60,000 people out...30,000 at the dome
orleans, how you been? worried when didn't see you posting
this is terriable ive been at school can some one fill me in
in miss, they are going house to house looking for survivors, they are matking houses with dead with a blcak mark and moving on. they don't have enough manpower to search and rescue and gather the dead at the moment. so sad
CNN...Oil and Chemical Facilities along the Mississipi have exploded casiung intense fires and contamination
This in NO...
we have peeps here in So Dade with no food or drinking water and fema hasn't stepped in yet... thur to tues. we may yet be the step-child
orleans, you stayed put?????????
thks gable..depressed..had to take a break...too hearbreaking...

Director of FEMA just said..."This is the worst natrual disaster in the History of the United States."
im in NY with family Gable
Orleans77, where did you see that?
Where have I lived through it? Probably the same place you did, old Drew tore my house in Kendal in half. Since then I've been through the lesser storms, most recently Frances and Jeanne. Now live in northern Palm Beach County. btw,Andrew was a cat 5 and killed less than 30 people. Even Camille killed less than 300. I am being realistic. tens of thousands dead is not.
My God,

I just heard a story on WKRG about a man who saw his wife drown before his eyes as he tried to save her. Her son, no more than 9 or 10 saw his mother washed away from the flood. I can't fathom the pain these people were going through as they wached their home rip in half and then watch the most important person in their lives die before their very eyes. This is the most tragic American diaster since 9/11. My God.
glad you're safe. am constantly on ph w/friend in TX who is from NO, she's been in tears 3 days. had taken god-daughter to Tulane to register on FRI and evac'd on SAT
squam...go play with your high school buddied..this is a blog for serious people
357. HAARP
I have been gone for an hour and things are going crazy

cgableshurrycanegal... Thanks for the info on the guard... My cousin is in the guard and deploys during disasters and he carries a loaded weapon ... so thats what I based it on.

Also... earlier in the day I reported that the levees were all in jeopardy due to leaks...well it looks inevitable that they will soon be gone... and so will most of NO...

This is about as worse case that can happen...

I also posted that they will be evac-ing the superdome ...and then someone came in here to say "not for days"???

Dont post unreliable info based on speculation because it may cause undo harm to people...

(which is why I posted this comment...not to brag)

kshurricane...CNN and Fox
regardless of the death toll. katrina has effected more areas than andrew or camile. no part of the northern gulf is unaffected. as of right now atleast 70 dead and none of that is from no and the small towns in miss.
Mayor has said ..what the hurricane didnt do right away the floods will do..looks like NO will be completely destroyed..."
they just said there are only 13,000 people at the Dome, the evacs of New Orleans won't be for a few days per CNN and WWL
Has anyone heard HOW they will evacuate ALL of N.O.-- to get them to the "Federalized Air Lines" and where they would take everyone? this is worse than a "B-Movie"
Now we have the worst case scenario. WWL just had video of a policeman shot in the back of the head by looters.
Tx they said it will take a few days to develop a plan for evac, in teh mean time they will be bringing in food tommorrow.
habe to pick up my kid at daycare guys..will be back in 30 min...
they havebt said how they are going to get people out,,btw...

French Quarter is now starting to flood...
squam, i have been critical of the decision making of the people running things in no. parituclarly the mayor and paritcularly the timing of the evacuation order. getting everyone out-- and showing they are serious about it (adding to my prior comment)-- i am praising a decision the authorities made.

unless you quibble with my use of the qualifier "probably."
368. kajun
Has anyone heard from HurricaneGuru? Does he still think Katrina was a dud? If he is watching TV, he pretty much feels like an idiot for his statement that Katrina devastation was a dud! Maybe next time he will not spout off until all information is in. New Orleans has pretty much ceased to exist as a city. The Governor stated " we can no longer support life in New Orleans". Sounds like a dud to me!

here is just one story that will tell of the death toll we will see whan all is said and done. this is from the wwl website

Frank Mills was in a boarding house with three elderly residents when water started swirling up to the ceiling.

Mills, 56, made for the front door but an elderly man went to a bedroom to retrieve something, and a woman went to help him.

"And when I saw her in the hallway, she was floating face up," Mills told The Associated Press on Tuesday, adding that he never saw the other man again.

Mills said he made it to a roof covering the front porch of the one-story house in the lower Ninth Ward section and tried desperately to pull another elderly man to safety. But he slipped away.

"He was kind of on the edge of the roof, catching his breath," Mills said. "Next thing I knew he came floating past me. ... I don't know if he drowned or had a heart attack."

Mills sat on the roof for about two hours before catching a floating compressor in the 20-foot-deep water and making his way to a two-story building nearby, where he was eventually picked up by a boat.

"I was next, that's what I was thinking," a barefoot Mills said as he stood in line at the Superdome with nothing but a ruined Walkman, a soaked cell phone and a bottle of water in a garbage back.

Orleans, the only reason I told you my age was to reinforce in you the fact that I am moregrounded in reality and reason than you are. Go ahead and make all the jibes you want about my age, doesn't make a difference in the fact that tens of thousands dead was and still is ridiculous.
CNN.. A guy got to his roof, then the house split in half. His wife is missing now. This is terrible.
and that was just one house. no governor said we might no be prepared for the death toll. bodies have been seen floating in the water
Kajun, desrcibing it as a dud is just as ridiculous as tens of thousands dead, but I believe New Orleans is still very much a city, albeit flooded. Give it some time and it will be once again back to its old self, it has not ceased to exist.
yeah i saw that one last night. i cried during that one. almost cried when i saw it again. maybe squam should turn on the tv and see the stories. almost every survior has lost a memebr of their family.
After just one full day of viewing the destruction of NO and the entire northern gulf coast, no one can disagree with me when I say that it is the worst diaster in america since 9/11. My God a police officer died trying to protect the city he loved. soon 90-100% of NO will be flooded, NO is being completly evacuated and Mississippi and Alabama got the eye of this monster. I can truly say with every inch of my being that it seems as though the hand of God has wiped the north central coast clean. This is beyond comprehension. I will be praying that God saves New Orleans.
Leftyy, and that would change the tens of thousands dead how?? I never said this storm wouldnt be awful, I just pointed out your comments were wacky and off.
From the 5:30 Atlantic Outlook:

For the North Atlantic...Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico...
The area of low pressure located about 1500 miles east of the Lesser Antilles continues to show signs of organization as it moves to the west-northwest. This system has the potential to become a tropical depression over the next couple of days as upper-level winds become more conducive for development.
The remnants of Tropical Depression Thirteen are showing signs of regeneration about 850 miles east-southeast of Bermuda. This system could become a tropical cyclone again tonight or tomorrow as it moves northward.
Elsewhere...tropical storm formation is not expected through
Forecaster Franklin

It looks like we'll have Lee and Maria before long. What are the chances that these things will recurve before reaching US? I don't think we can handle any more at the moment
Guys, I think the model for Squam is that Harold guy in Stephen King's The Stand. Y'know, his sister tells her friends that his Y-fronts are stiff with starch ;-). Harold dreams of the day when he'll get his revenge....as he pops his zits....

It takes some kind of immature creep to try to push people's buttons at a time like this. Takes all kinds to make a world, I guess....
9/11 was nothing compared to the detruction mother nature has given out here.
Taylor, don't know how long you've been monitoring this blog, nor where you get your justification for implying I'm a "creep". I am simply calling those out who were alarmists. Tens of thousands dead was alarmist by all standards.
381. HAARP
Gator... not saying your info is bad... its there info because they have already started evac-ing the dome as of 1 PM... They might not get everyone out for 2 days...but it is in progress ( so are other evacs )

I am sure the navy has ships en route to help...

For the mayor to say "we cannot support life" and then cnn to say they are bringing supplies to the dome is crazy...

there is so much sewage in the dome right now that people will be soon getting sick and dying if they dont get out... NO has turned into a big toilet bowl of chemicals/sewage/debris...etc...

I cannot wait to get there to help...our cert team is still waiting for FEMA to release us but we are being told that might not happen until friday.
Carb, 9/11 deffinitely wasn't "nothing" compared to this, it did after all kil some 3,000 people, probably more than this storm.
squam, I have no quarrel with age. that is just a number.
My problem is that you haven't lived what some of us have.
I lived the Andrew nightmare. I worked a hotel fire. I know how to gauge things from a different perspective than do you. Just maybe, before you go mouthing off that we are negative and lusting after big numbers you should stop and think before you post.
I've worked for years in all my communities, I'm considered a healer by all I work by, regardless of religion due to all I contribute. I am not considered a negative person, but YOU choose to blow me off from the few comments on a blog. THAT is immature.
I've been lurking for a few days as all this has unfolded. Thanks to all whole have provided useful information.

A few of you have asked about satellite photos. Excellent ongoing satellite imagery of phenomena around the world is at NASA's Earth Observatory site. This image is particularly relevant:


They will likely post more over the next days. Effects on the Gulf Coast as well as NO should be obvious.

Keeping all in the affected areas in my thoughts.
These Looters are really making my blood boil.

I'd like to see someone (gov, mayor, FEMA) make something similar to the following statement:

"To those indivials who are using this catastrophic event to take advantage of the reduced security and obatin personal gain: YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

You will not be elligible for emergency relief from FEMA. You will not be evacuated or rescued from your homoe or city by any civil or military personell.
You will not be granted access to any city, state or federally run shelter.
You will be turned away from any publicly funded hospital.

The relief effort is paid for in part by the same citizens and businesses that you have chosen to take advantage of in this horrific time. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN! Good luck and may God have mercy on your soul."

I think is a little harsh, and probably not realistic, but geez! What the hell are these people thinking?!?!?!?
squam whats the point. i stated yesterday that if 1 person died it was a trajedy. it could be that high. there are 30,000 people in the parishes that are under 15-20 ft of water. every person plucked off a roof tells a story of loss of life. u are here why? u have added nothing to this blog. people have lost everything they own. people have watched love ones die. your in here arguing apples over oranges. people are dead and more are still struggling for their lives. i want no one to answer him after this. we need his element out of this blog and only if we ignore him will he leave
cgables, I just told you I lived through Andrew.

If some of the people reading the comments from these "alarmists" had not evactuated themselves, or made phone calls to family and friends living in the effected areas advising them to leave or prepare better, wouldn't the death toll, regardless of the number will eventually see, be higher?

Can you honestly say that Lefty and the rest of these guys didn't save some lives? WHo cares if only 50-100 instead of 25,000? Dude, get a life!
didn't see it, and how old were you? what responsibilities did you shoulder and exactly where were you? If you tell me Broward County I find you and spank you.
Leftyy, I am here because of your alarmism and what I regard as your liking of destruction.
lefty, good point. what happened to catc? ::snicker::
Squam, 9/11 was bad. But two buildings falling, and about 3,000 dead is nothing even close to a whole city that has almost a billion being flooded, and getting more flooded by the night. It's not jsut water either. You got the oil, and gas, and sewage in it. Plus the wind damage, and New Orleans didn't even get the brunt. Gulf Port, and Bolixi.. There is probably nothing at all left of those places. not to mention the places yet to be heard from. 50,000 dead from this at the end is probably a conservative estimate.
thaks for the sat links. very moving
valence, your earlier post, yes, someone did jump in the superdome
Haarp the Gov. said they were bringing in supplies to help the people until a plan could be developed in a few days to get them out.
squam i am sorry u couldn't be here this morning. maybe u should scroll down and see what the people from the affected areas had to say to me. i had people thanking me for possibly saving their lives by explaining the threat they did not see comming. how many lives did u save this wekkend
397. HAARP


lets leave it at that...

We are all alarmists but you are "well-grounded"...

I am sure you make your parents proud

The fact remains that many people are dead and by the time this is over many MAY be more than 10000...I pray I am wrong but the more info that comes in right now the more likely that this will be the case
squam is trolling. I am no longer responding to someone who can equate a man-created (9-11) nightmare to nature doing it's thing and turning a whole city into a long-term cespool which is what is now happening. How they are ever going to decontaminate NO is beyond my comprehension.
Notice no answer to my specific questions about Andrew?
cgables I told you Kendall, and to answer your question I was about 4 years old at the time. The storm tore my house in half(poor construction I've been told) and left us without an inhabitable home. You can all lecture me all you want about any "lack of sympathy", I know what destruction is, but I also know what alarmism can do to people as I have seen it with my own eyes. As a student during the 2005 hurricane season I encountered several people whom I would characterize as alarmists. One even caused a worried person to break out in tears for fear of their family members life. I have since devloped a considerable dislike for alarmists, and their unfounded statements.
My bad, make that 2004 hurricane season.
someone asked about the regeneration of td13.
I think it will be a fish storm if it does so.
So far east and at northern degrees... might spook Bermuda.
As to the other area. a little early, but what I could see with my rabbit ear connection looks like poss fish storm, wouldn't bet the bank on anything this season...
People are dying, people are scared about their relatives and are looking for real info here. If you aren't posting information, go elsewhere. It is bad. Period. Squabbling over decimal points in numbers trivializes what is happening, but much worse it means that people that are coming here for info will leave. It's all about the people in need right now, so let's focus on that please.
Some reports that the Superdome must be evacuated...bad news if the following is true:

4:21 P.M. - WWL-TV Reporter quotes officials as saying there may now be 60,000 people in the Superdome and that more people are still being urged to go there.
Guys and Gals....men and women.... PLEASE.
If Squam wants an argument.... someone start a "I"M RIGHT AND UR WRONG" blog.
And for all others....thank you for a peaceful day...relatively.

For the others, may I suggest the following? (EASY to create, I myself have a "hurricane food blog" for recipes before (clean out the fridge) during (may have power or not), and after (how to make a hot meal 5 + days out with no power))

For those of the "conspiracy theory".... CREATE ONE!
For those of the "ALIEN theory" may the force be with you! CREATE A BLOG!

Can we be real here people? And enough with the histrionic posts that have no backing, for example... water rising a foot every 5 minutes.



'nough said and off the soapbox.
406. HAARP
gator... the GOV is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.... he needs sleep because they are evac-ing them right now
Ok eliston, then this post will be about the new potential -TD14.

Current tracks seem to indicate that even if it does develop, it will probably head for the central Atlantic. Just need to keep an eye on it for now.

OK Carbo...50,000 as a guess for the number dead is absurd. I think it's off by a factor of 100.
Hi all,

Does anyone have friends or family in or near Pascgagoula, MS ?

I'm trying to find my Dad and any info would help.

Roads getting there open or closed? Are they letting people go back to their homes?

Any info would help.

Thank you.
Hope everyone is ok!!!!!!!!
Do you count those who were killed at landfall as victims, or those who will also die in the aftermath? Perhaps "only" a few hundred died at landfall, but it is a safe bet that the final death toll will be mind-numbing--much more so than with Andrew. The infrastructure in Dade County basically held in place. NO is like ground zero after Hiroshima. The infrastructure is failing rapidly.
Thousands of dead is not an unrealistic number with the levees failing in NO and let me tell you why. There are diseases that take people in large groups that are directly related to poor sanitation, contaminated drinking water, etc. These include: cholera, typhus, typhoid and dysentery. We have not seen outbreaks of these diseases in the U.S. in more than 90 years, but we're going to see them now, I guarantee. These do not kill small numbers of people, but many, many hundreds.
Other people will die who have medical conditions that will go untreated. Are they hurricane victims or just "unlucky"?
People are existing in shelters who have, quite literally, lost every single thing they own. They've lost their homes and everything in them, and may not even be able to rebuild. What of these people? Will they survive, and if not, are they "real" hurricane victims, or just "unlucky"?
In the final analysis, it doesn't matter whether the death toll is 1,000 or 1 million. It doesn't matter if someone predicted 10,000 and it comes to pass or not. It just doesn't make a dime's worth of difference. This is a catastrophe on a scale we have never seen and are not prepared for.
I hope this disaster does not write the obituary for New Orleans, but it is certainly a city in gravely critical condition.
413. WSI
People PLEASE quit feeding the trolls. They only hang around and pester you the more you feed them. Ignore their stupid comments, and they will go away. Even if they don't, don't dignify their insensitive and finger-pointing posts with a response.
POTMROTS: check out wpmi.com out of mobile for news about pascagula. the home page has an article on pascagula that is a couple of hours old.

earl12603: nothing else on pass christian. sorry.
I posted earlier about Pascagoula. I have spoken to friends there several times since yesterday morning. (goularogue & pascmississippi that post here; I got them addicted to the site last hurricane season. I have never posted until today.) They have called me from a different cell phone number every time. I cannot reach them though. Your dad may be able to get intermittent cell service to finally get a call out. All I can tell you is that the city is very devastated, but they are all helping each other and many are safe. Anything south of 90 was under water. I do not know if the water has receded? But only can assume it has by seeing the pics of Biloxi. The last time they attempted to call me was at 12 CST. We lost our connection though. A lot of families have lost their homes, cars, etc... Hope you find word soon. If you tell me their names, I will ask them if they know anything... if they get a chance to get through again.
How about Typhoon Malin bearing down on Taiwan with winds of 145 mph
This storm is right on the verge of a replacement cycle (a much smaller eye than Katrina), but it looks like it will come out of it before landfall.

Perhaps Bastardi's on to something with this teleconnection stuff (stated simply, the weather elsewhere commutes to the weather here and vice versa via large scale climatic connections).
Try "Talim"...whoops.
Orleans77... just curious? Your kids are in daycare while you are visiting in NY? I might not have been following your posts closely though... don't want to stir trouble. Their are more important things to discuss here. Just curious? Do you have an ex with kids there? If so, it must be nice for you to get to stay with them while you are watching all of the destruction in your home town. It is nice to know you have family with you. It puts the whole world into perspective, doesn't it? BTW... my friend just called from Pascagoula. They are able to call long distance, but for some reason cannot reach each other in their home town? They said no one they know has a house left.
hey im back gang...
cTampa...my wife and kids and I as well as my folks are from NY...my wife andI and my son were living in NO for the summer..moved there in June...were home for a vist and were supposed to return there on Sunday AM..at first I was jus oing to go..to secure the apt and ride out the storm...but mmy folks talked me out of it...we lost everything...but were insured..(man im so glad that i let the insurance agent, whom i thought was pushy, sell me ona a rental policy)...anyways...my son was in a the daycare this week in the daycare he attended before we moved to LA....hope that answers ur questions...
have been out of touch for last 2 hrs..can someone fill me in on any new developments...
sorry bout the grammar and spelling....im tired...
Where'd leftyy go?
ORLEANS...teriffically happy you are OK.... we are VERY worried for those that posted from NOLA and have not been heard from!
The "higher being" has blessed you and yours!
Does anyone know how bad it is in St. Charles parish? I have family in Luling which I think is north of NO on the other side of Lake P.
428. ae1

Don't throw all your charitable aid at the Red Cross. Think ahead. Think to what all these people are going to need after these first few weeks, after it's not the page one story everywhere else. Legal Aid services in FL are still dealing with all KINDS of legal miseries being suffered by clients who were devastated last year, helping them establish what they did own, how to account for their losses, how to contend with the insurance companies and the evil gougers, how to save their properties from the predatory deal-makers of all stripes. And that hell is going on way after it's not the top news story anymore. And Habitat is still trying to build new homes. And Big Brothers Big Sisters is doing a wide variety of family support services no one would have ever imagined them stepping in on. So think bigger than Red Cross. They get all the money thrown at them, and not to criticize, but there have been some real problems with accountability for the RC the last few major calamities (9/11, 'canes, tsunami, etc.).

So think United Way maybe, Legal Aid, Habitat. Think ahead... please. And mark your checks in the memo line: "Katrina Relief." Thank you for caring now, and in three, six, nine months. This won't be over for a lonnnnnng time.
cTampa: My dad owns and operates the local USO in Pascagoula MS His name is Lee Lechleidner he lives on River Road in Pascagoula.

Thank You,

Hi everybody. I'm from Brazil and I am following this blog since last sunday, hoping the best for all the people in the area hit by Katrina.
They are moving the Superdome evacs to the Astrodome in Houston on 435 buses (which should arrive into NEw Orleans soon. They have clear enough outs and should be starting today and going into tomorrow evening. The Atrodoem is clear until Dec for these people.
Why hasn't a national emergency been declared to make taking care of all these at least 1 million people the first priority of everything and everybody? Seems to me that only a tiny amount of help is being mobilized so far, and all these people don't have that much time without food, water especially. ???
433. konch
I have to take exception to the phrase "with substantial loss of life of those who failed to evacuate."

Not everyone was in a position to evacuate. A large majority of those who lost their lives should have been evacuated by AWOL responsible authorities and an absent National Guard. Perhaps a better phrasing would be "with substantial loss of life of those who were not evacuated." Otherwise, one is blaming the victims of the gutting and looting of the US infrastructure by ideologically-alibied, corrupt concerns.

Perhaps a small minority of those killed stated when they had a choice, and your phrase does apply to them. When I first read this I shared the frustration and outrage at the willful blindness of those obstinate few, but in the aftermath it is clear the real story is the continuing criminal neglect of basic services on the part those in control of the federal government.