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Senate committee proposes less drastic budget cuts for NOAA

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 10:16 PM GMT on March 07, 2011

Last month, the U.S. House of Representatives proposed a new budget (HR 1) for the remainder of the fiscal year that would slash funding of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) by $454 million. This would mean a draconian 28% cut for the National Weather Service, the agency entrusted to protect us from natural hazards such as hurricanes, tornadoes, and floods. Monday, the U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee released a proposed alternative to HR 1 that would make a $110 million reduction to NOAA operations for the remainder of the fiscal year. Of the $110 million cut, $104 million was from earmarks that are no longer funded. This effectively only cuts the NOAA budget by $6 million, and would allow NOAA to continue its efforts through the coming tornado, flood, and hurricane seasons to help protect lives and property without suffering from crippling budget cuts.

Now is the time to mobilize to ensure adequate funding for NOAA, and the National Weather Service Employees Organization issued these recommendations in a letter posted on their website today:

-----------------

Assuming the Senate adopts this proposal, the effort goes to convincing House Leadership of the important work of the NWS and fully funding NOAA. At this important stage, we ask you to contact Congressmen John Boehner and Eric Cantor and respectfully request that they support the Senate's proposal for NOAA's budget. These congressmen hold the key to the future of the NWS.

To email or call Speaker John Boehner
http://www.speaker.gov/Contact/

To email or call Representative Eric Cantor
http://cantor.house.gov/contact/

You can also join the Protect the National Weather Service Facebook group, which was created for this cause. Our fan count is growing rapidly but we need more. We want Congress to take notice of how much support our fans have shown. Please share this message with your friends and ask them to click "like" directly on our page. We will have more information, some cool photos and interesting tidbits to share in the coming days.

Sample letters and talking points are available below. Please feel free to use these letters and also tailor them to the particular types of weather for your geographic area. The links below provide email addresses and phone numbers to help you in this effort.

Your support of the National Weather Service is greatly appreciated. You are making the difference in helping the agency continue their mission of saving lives and property. Thank you.


Dear Mr. Speaker (for Speaker John Boehner) OR
Dear Mr. Cantor (for Rep. Eric Cantor)

I am writing to ask you to support the Senate's proposal for NOAA's budget. This proposal will help NOAA and the National Weather Service continue the mission of saving lives and property.

The Senate's proposal includes responsible funding levels in stark contrast to the draconian cuts included in HR1. HR1 would have resulted in the following impacts on the National Weather Service:

* Reduced staffing at Weather Forecast Offices and River Forecast Centers would result in incomplete forecast production which could prove disastrous in a significant weather event. Even in the best of cases, it will still mean incomplete forecast production at WFOs that have major product workloads for aviation, marine, tropical and public services.

* This is going to have a negative impact on the economy and on almost every aspect of our daily lives. There will be a large scale economic impact on aviation, agriculture, and the cost shipping food and other products.

* Service backup of 24 Weather Forecasting Offices has never been tested and runs a very significant risk of a missed tornado, flood or severe weather warning. It is risking lives at the onset of both tornadoes and hurricane season. This is also doubling the area of responsibility for operations and adds the risk of degraded service delivery.

* The National Hurricane Center is not immune to these cuts as furloughs and staffing cuts will add strain to the program. The Hurricane Hunter Jet, which provides lifesaving data and helps determine a hurricane.s path, could also be eliminated.

* Information that is vital for weather modeling and accurate tornado watches and warnings will be reduced and in some cases lost. Reduced upper air observations currently made twice a day could be reduced to once every other day. Buoy and surface weather observations, the backbone of most of the weather and warning systems, may be temporarily or permanently discontinued.

Recent advances in aviation weather forecasting have resulted in as much as a 50 percent reduction in weather related flight delays. The Senate.s proposal for funding will help progressive programs such as these continue and may, in turn, prove beneficial to strengthening the economy.
For the safety of our citizens, the protection of property, and the large scale economic impact on aviation, agriculture, and commerce, I am asking you to vote in support the Senate.s proposal for NOAA's budget.

Sincerely,
Your Name

------------------

I encourage all of you to make your voices heard and help preserve funding for NOAA and the National Weather Service.

You can call or email your U.S. Senator using this link: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information /senators_cfm.cfm

You can call or email your U.S. House of Representatives member using this link: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

The National Weather Service Employees Organization web site has talking points and sample letters (printable) you can use to contact your Senators and Representative.

Climate Science and EPA’s Greenhouse Gas Regulations
The U.S. House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Energy and Power, chaired by Rep. Ed Whitfield (R-KY), will hold a hearing on Tuesday, March 8, 2011, at 10:00 a.m. in room 2123 of the Rayburn House Office Building. The hearing is entitled, “Climate Science and EPA’s Greenhouse Gas Regulations.” Full Committee Chairman Fred Upton (R-MI) and Rep. Whitfield have joined Democratic leaders in the U.S. House in authoring the Energy Tax Prevention Act (H.R. 910), a bill to block EPA’s controversial backdoor climate change agenda that would further drive up the price of energy for American consumers and job creators at a time when gas prices are already spiking and job creation remains weak.

The hearing is open to the public and press. Opening statements, witness testimony, and a live webcast will be available online at http://energycommerce.house.gov

Jeff Masters
Your Pot of Gold...
Your Pot of Gold...
is at the Atlantis Casino! Overlooking Reno at 6200 ft.

Politics

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Quoting Xyrus2000:


Nah. It used to be called Grothar's Blacksmith and BBQ. Then Hannibal came through with his elephants to invade Rome, and Grothar decided to head for greener pastures.

:D


That was when I moved with my Uncle, Erik the Red to Greenland. We heard it was very green. (You twit!) :P
Quoting Xyrus2000:


Nah. It used to be called Grothar's Blacksmith and BBQ. Then Hannibal came through with his elephants to invade Rome, and Grothar decided to head for greener pastures.

:D


Poor Groth- that's what happens when you're the senior guy though. :))

Good Gro, real good, thanx. You too I hope?

Been spending most of my time over at Orca's comedy club. :))
Quoting swampliliy:


Poor Groth- that's what happens when you're the senior guy though. :))

Good Gro, real good, thanx. You too I hope?

Been spending most of my time over at Orca's comedy club. :))


Now I know how Rodney Dangerfield felt. You try and teach these youngsters something and they bushwack you. Glad to hear you're doing OK. Got to stop my Orca's den sometime. Keep well. Looks like some nasty weather for this upcoming week again.
BTW
Spathy is on topic this evening.
I Know it doesnt happen often.
I start off on topic but it (sometimes)?
degrades from there?
Yet somehow when Spathy is ON Topic?,
I get little response.
Perhaps its too early for most.
Quoting spathy:

Ah thank you.
I love WU.
So its a cut of remaining not total monies.
LOVE IT!
Refer to post #491.
Now We know the rest of the story.
Or do we?
Nrtiw...
You got your #s straight?
I bet you do.
You have always been a decent poster of relevant timely info.
So is my approximation of 10% to 12% reflective of total cuts of an entire fiscal year?


It is about 14% of the full year Operations, Research and Facilities budget.
Quoting spathy:
BTW
Spathy is on topic this evening.
I Know it doesnt happen often.
I start off on topic but it (sometimes)?
degrades from there?
Yet somehow when Spathy is ON Topic?,
I get little response.
Perhaps its too early for most.


You're doing well, spathy. I am watching everything you write. I am not good at math so I refrain from commenting. But you made some good points. 50% of the time I get the math wrong, and the other 60% I don't understand. Keep them on their toes.
The number comes from the 2010 budget, and only from the Operations, Research and Facilities (ORF) part.
2010 ORF ~ 3.4 billion, however since the year is already half over, it is 454 million out of 1.7 billion.

Quoting spathy:

Ah thank you.
I love WU.
So its a cut of remaining not total monies.
LOVE IT!
Refer to post #491.
Now We know the rest of the story.
Or do we?
Nrtiw...
You got your #s straight?
I bet you do.
You have always been a decent poster of relevant timely info.
So is my approximation of 10% to 12% reflective of total cuts of an entire fiscal year?


Just thought it deserved a re-post after the blog decimal was reached.
Quoting Grothar:


You're doing well, spathy. I am watching everything you write. I am not good at math so I refrain from commenting. But you made some good points. 50% of the time I get the math wrong, and the other 60% I don't understand. Keep them on their toes.

Thanks Groth.
That is a high complement from someone with a LOOOOOONG history to pull from :O)
BTW English is my second language.
I only wish I had a first language to be a base source.
Dyslexic snickers.
Seems like this year will be a very active CV season...
Move those African waves in the ITCZ, 10 to 20 degrees north (Summer) and were ready...

Animation Link

Notice how the swirl East of Spain how it disipattes

Quoting Grothar:


Now I know how Rodney Dangerfield felt. You try and teach these youngsters something and they bushwack you. Glad to hear you're doing OK. Got to stop my Orca's den sometime. Keep well. Looks like some nasty weather for this upcoming week again.


Let me know when you're coming to Gulfport. I'm buying. :))
Quoting spathy:

Thanks Groth.
That is a high complement from someone with a LOOOOOONG history to pull from :O)
BTW English is my second language.
I only wish I had a first language to be a base source.
Dyslexic snickers.


Then ouy aer better than I thuoght!
Magnitude 7.2 - NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
2011 March 09 02:45:18 UTC
DetailsMapsTsunami Earthquake Details
This event has been reviewed by a seismologist.
Magnitude 7.2
Date-Time Wednesday, March 09, 2011 at 02:45:18 UTC
Wednesday, March 09, 2011 at 11:45:18 AM at epicenter

Location 38.510°N, 142.792°E
Depth 14.1 km (8.8 miles)
Region NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
Distances 169 km (105 miles) E (80°) from Sendai, Honshu, Japan
196 km (122 miles) SE (133°) from Morioka, Honshu, Japan
221 km (137 miles) ENE (66°) from Fukushima, Honshu, Japan
416 km (258 miles) NE (40°) from TOKYO, Japan

Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 12.8 km (8.0 miles); depth +/- 1.8 km (1.1 miles)
Parameters NST=464, Nph=469, Dmin=390.7 km, Rmss=1.06 sec, Gp= 29°,
M-type="moment" magnitude from initial P wave (tsuboi method) (Mi/Mwp), Version=B
Source U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center:
World Data Center for Seismology, Denver

Event ID usb0001r57
To: U.S. West Coast, Alaska, and British Columbia coastal regions
From: NOAA/NWS/West Coast and Alaska Tsunami Warning Center
Subject: Tsunami Information Statement #1 issued 03/8/2011 at 6:55PM PST

A strong earthquake has occurred, but a tsunami IS NOT expected along the California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, or Alaska coast. NO tsunami warning, watch or advisory is in effect for these areas.

Based on the earthquake magnitude, location and historic tsunami records, a damaging tsunami IS NOT expected along the California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, and Alaska coasts. At coastal locations which have experienced strong ground shaking, local tsunamis are possible due to underwater landslides.

At 6:45 PM Pacific Standard Time on March 8, an earthquake with preliminary magnitude 7.2 occurred off the east coast of Honshu, Japan . (Refer to the United States Geological Survey for official earthquake parameters.)

Pacific coastal regions outside California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, and Alaska should refer to the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center messages for information on the event.

This will be the only statement issued for this event by the West Coast/Alaska Tsunami Warning Center unless conditions warrant. See the WCATWC web site for basic tsunami information, safety rules, and a tsunami travel time map and table. (NOTE: Travel time maps and tables indicate forecasted times only, not that a wave was generated.)

Link to Standard Information Statement
Link to Public Information Statement
Link to XML/CAP Message
Link to Printable Message

Quoting swampliliy:


Let me know when you're coming to Gulfport. I'm buying. :))


Should be soon, I hope. Run into any of my family?
Quoting Grothar:


Thanks, and you call yourself my buddy. LOL


Haha, how've you been? It feels so good to be back home.
Quoting Grothar:


Should be soon, I hope. Run into any of my family?



Yeah, but it's funny, I only get half your name out and it's like shroooom- Road Runner being chased by Wiley Coyote.

Strange! :))
Ultrafast Laser 'Scribing' Technique to Cut Cost, Hike Efficiency of Solar Cells

ScienceDaily (Mar. 8, 2011) — Researchers are developing a technology that aims to help make solar cells more affordable and efficient by using a new manufacturing method that employs an ultrafast pulsing laser.

The innovation may help to overcome two major obstacles that hinder widespread adoption of solar cells: the need to reduce manufacturing costs and increase the efficiency of converting sunlight into an electric current, said Yung Shin, a professor of mechanical engineering and director of Purdue University's Center for Laser-Based Manufacturing.....

Link
Quoting swampliliy:



Yeah, but it's funny, I only get half your name out and it's like shroooom- Road Runner being chased by Wiley Coyote.

Strange! :))


Not surprising. Big Grothar has been know to kick some serious *** up that way.
Evening all. Louisiana is really getting hit tonight again. Another tornado just west of me. Hopefully everyone there is all right.
Magnitude 7.2 earthquake hits northern Japan
4 mins ago

TOKYO – A magnitude 7.2 earthquake has hit northern Japan, shaking buildings in Tokyo and prompting the country's meteorological agency to issue a tsunami alert for the northeastern coast. There are no immediate reports of damage or injuries, but officials are still assessing the situation.

The meteorological agency says the quake hit at 11:45 a.m. local time Wednesday and was centered about 200 miles (300 kilometers) north of Tokyo at a depth of about 6.2 miles (10 kilometers).

It warned that a tsunami of about 20 inches (50 centimeters) would hit the coast around noon Wednesday, but that time passed without any reports of a wave reaching the shore.

There was a 6.3 magnitude aftershock shortly after the main quake.
Quoting Grothar:


Then ouy aer better than I thuoght!

What?
I am getting old....
I cant hear you/
Me eye prescription is failing /cant read ya.
Its all good thanks Gro.
Quoting caneswatch:


Haha, how've you been? It feels so good to be back home.


Well, make sure you clean up your room. I heard you left it a big mess when you left.
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
To: U.S. West Coast, Alaska, and British Columbia coastal regions
From: NOAA/NWS/West Coast and Alaska Tsunami Warning Center
Subject: Tsunami Information Statement #1 issued 03/8/2011 at 6:55PM PST

A strong earthquake has occurred, but a tsunami IS NOT expected along the California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, or Alaska coast. NO tsunami warning, watch or advisory is in effect for these areas.

Based on the earthquake magnitude, location and historic tsunami records, a damaging tsunami IS NOT expected along the California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, and Alaska coasts. At coastal locations which have experienced strong ground shaking, local tsunamis are possible due to underwater landslides.

At 6:45 PM Pacific Standard Time on March 8, an earthquake with preliminary magnitude 7.2 occurred off the east coast of Honshu, Japan . (Refer to the United States Geological Survey for official earthquake parameters.)

Pacific coastal regions outside California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, and Alaska should refer to the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center messages for information on the event.

This will be the only statement issued for this event by the West Coast/Alaska Tsunami Warning Center unless conditions warrant. See the WCATWC web site for basic tsunami information, safety rules, and a tsunami travel time map and table. (NOTE: Travel time maps and tables indicate forecasted times only, not that a wave was generated.)

Link to Standard Information Statement
Link to Public Information Statement
Link to XML/CAP Message
Link to Printable Message



Thanks Keep
Glad to hear there is (so far) no danger of a Tsunami.
WHITE FLAG....I SURRENDER !! Rain, rain go away...to Florida..
Cassini Finds Saturn's Moon Enceladus Is a Powerhouse



This graphic, using data from NASA's Cassini spacecraft, shows how the south polar terrain of Saturn's moon Enceladus emits much more power than scientists had originally predicted. (Credit: NASA/JPL/SWRI/SSI)

ScienceDaily (Mar. 8, 2011) — Heat output from the south polar region of Saturn's moon Enceladus is much greater than was previously thought possible, according to a new analysis of data collected by NASA's Cassini spacecraft.

The study was published in the Journal of Geophysical Research on March 4.

Data from Cassini's composite infrared spectrometer of Enceladus' south polar terrain, which is marked by linear fissures, indicate that the internal heat-generated power is about 15.8 gigawatts, approximately 2.6 times the power output of all the hot springs in the Yellowstone region, or comparable to 20 coal-fueled power stations. This is more than an order of magnitude higher than scientists had predicted, according to Carly Howett, the lead author of study, who is a postdoctoral researcher at Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo., and a composite infrared spectrometer science team member.

"The mechanism capable of producing the much higher observed internal power remains a mystery and challenges the currently proposed models of long-term heat production," said Howett....

Link
Quoting aislinnpaps:
Evening all. Louisiana is really getting hit tonight again. Another tornado just west of me. Hopefully everyone there is all right.


Looks pretty bad down there. I can't get any local radar maps. Where is xcool when you need him.

Quoting Grothar:


Well, make sure you clean up your room. I heard you left it a big mess when you left.


Haha, it wasn't.

Oh, BTW everyone, the trolls who invaded this blog in December are in chat right now. You can deal with them as you please.
It's All in a Name: 'Global Warming' Vs. 'Climate Change'

ScienceDaily (Mar. 8, 2011) — Many Americans are skeptical about whether the world's weather is changing, but apparently the degree of skepticism varies systematically depending on what that change is called.

According to a University of Michigan study published in the forthcoming issue of Public Opinion Quarterly, more people believe in "climate change" than in "global warming."

"Wording matters," said Jonathon Schuldt, the lead author of the article about the study and a doctoral candidate in the U-M Department of Psychology.

Schuldt co-authored the study with U-M psychologists Sara Konrath and Norbert Schwarz. For the research, they conducted a question wording experiment in the American Life Panel, an online survey conducted by RAND, with a national sample of 2,267 U.S. adults. Participants were asked to report their level of certainty about whether global climate change is a serious problem. In the following question, half the participants heard one version, half heard the other:

"You may have heard about the idea that the world's temperature may have been going up [changing] over the past 100 years, a phenomenon sometimes called 'global warming' ['climate change']. What is your personal opinion regarding whether or not this has been happening?

Overall, 74 percent of people thought the problem was real when it was referred to as climate change, while about 68 percent thought it was real when it was referred to as global warming.

These different levels of belief may stem from the different associations carried by the two terms, Schuldt said. "While global warming focuses attention on temperature increases, climate change focuses attention on more general changes," he said. "Thus, an unusually cold day may increase doubts about global warming more so than about climate change. Given these different associations and the partisan nature of this issue, climate change believers and skeptics might be expected to vary in their use of these terms."

As part of the study, the researchers also analyzed the use of these two terms on political think tank websites, finding that liberals and conservatives used different terms. Conservative think tanks tend to call the phenomenon global warming, while liberal think tanks call it climate change.

And when the researchers analyzed responses to the survey by political orientation, they found that the different overall levels in belief were driven almost entirely by participants who identified themselves as Republicans. While 60 percent of Republicans reported that they thought climate change was real, for example, only 44 percent said they believed in the reality of global warming.

In contrast, about 86 percent of Democrats thought climate change was a serious problem, no matter what it was called. Why weren't they influenced by question wording? "It might be a ceiling effect, given their high level of belief," Konrath said. "Or it could be that Democrats' beliefs about global climate change might be more crystallized, and as a result, more protected from subtle manipulations."

The good news is that Americans may not be as polarized on the issue as previously thought. "The extent of the partisan divide on this issue depends heavily on question wording," said Schwarz, who is also affiliated with the U-M Ross Business School and the Institute of Social Research (ISR). "When the issue is framed as global warming, the partisan divide is nearly 42 percentage points. But when the frame is climate change, the partisan divide drops to about 26 percentage points."
Quoting Grothar:


Then ouy aer better than I thuoght!


But just to reemphasize.
You have a great place on my mental Mantle.
ds,bs,ps,and qs to you.
Boy did they ???
Mess with my head in elementary school.
Quoting Skyepony:
Lightning hit a substation, there's flooding. Hattiesburg, MS ended up getting 1" hail..
At least they didn't get a nado (as far as we know, so far).

The hail looked like an almost certainty when that deepest cell was approaching (and I made that comment about) Hattiesburg ~4 hours ago. Nado looked remotely possible.
Melting Ice Sheets Now Largest Contributor to Sea Level Rise

ScienceDaily (Mar. 8, 2011) -The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets are losing mass at an accelerating pace, according to a new NASA-funded satellite study. The findings of the study -- the longest to date of changes in polar ice sheet mass -- suggest these ice sheets are overtaking ice loss from Earth's mountain glaciers and ice caps to become the dominant contributor to global sea level rise, much sooner than model forecasts have predicted.

The nearly 20-year study reveals that in 2006, a year in which comparable results for mass loss in mountain glaciers and ice caps are available from a separate study conducted using other methods, the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets lost a combined mass of 475 gigatonnes a year on average. That's enough to raise global sea level by an average of 1.3 millimeters (.05 inches) a year. (A gigatonne is one billion metric tons, or more than 2.2 trillion pounds.) Ice sheets are defined as being larger than 50,000 square kilometers, or 20,000 square miles, and only exist in Greenland and Antarctica while ice caps are areas smaller than 50,000 square km.....

Link

The authors conclude that, if current ice sheet melting rates continue for the next four decades, their cumulative loss could raise sea level by 15 centimeters (5.9 inches) by 2050. When this is added to the predicted sea level contribution of 8 centimeters (3.1 inches) from glacial ice caps and 9 centimeters (3.5 inches) from ocean thermal expansion, total sea level rise could reach 32 centimeters (12.6 inches). While this provides one indication of the potential contribution ice sheets could make to sea level in the coming century, the authors caution that considerable uncertainties remain in estimating future ice loss acceleration.
Quoting Grothar:


Looks pretty bad down there. I can't get any local radar maps. Where is xcool when you need him.

65 dbz sustained itself through the south of Alexandria...and still going.

Quoting spathy:


But just to reemphasize.
You have a great place on my mental Mantle.
ds,bs,ps,and qs to you.
Boy did they ???
Mess with my head in elementary school.


Thank you for tha. They can do that in school. LOL They have come a long way in identifying learning problems. I admit that I truly do have a problem with mathematics. It was never identified as such when I was in school. They referred to it as laziness. Now they know better. Still can't balance my checkbook though.
Quoting caneswatch:


Haha, it wasn't.

Oh, BTW everyone, the trolls who invaded this blog in December are in chat right now. You can deal with them as you please.


Yeah, I'm Winning.
Quoting atmoaggie:

65 dbz sustained itself through the south of Alexandria...and still going.



H7 looks like it would be a bit nasty.



Quoting atmoaggie:
65 dbz sustained itself through the south of Alexandria...and still going.



Well, xcool isn't here, I guess you will have to do. Thanks for the image. Looks really serious. Those cells seem to be maintaing themselves for a long time. On the large radar screens, it looks almost like a depression.
Quoting Grothar:


Well, xcool isn't here, I guess you will have to do. Thanks for the image. Looks really serious. Those cells seem to be maintaing themselves for a long time. On the large radar screens, it looks almost like a depression.
Yeah, I'll try to stand in as best I can. Hope you can stand it.

Just try to not be such an old codger for a change.
Quoting atmoaggie:
Yeah, I'll try to stand in as best I can. Hope you can stand it.


I've had to endure worse. Looks like Rapides Parish is really getting the brunt.
Hey Grothar....."the creeks out and a risin"...cant get to the rain gauge to check inches, but a LOT.....My sattelite dish is out and I'm going to unplug everything now....lightning is horrible.....check in later.
Quoting Grothar:


I've had to endure worse. Looks like Rapides Parish is really getting the brunt.
So far, there is a LSR of flooding. And one of 0.88 inch hail.

HAIL 2 SSE ALEXANDRIA E0.88 INCH RAPIDES LA
Quoting atmoaggie:
So far, there is a LSR of flooding. And one of 0.88 inch hail.

HAIL 2 SSE ALEXANDRIA E0.88 INCH RAPIDES LA


Can you find any map of Tensas Parish? It looks like some big cells up there.
Quoting Grothar:


Can you find any map of Tensas Parish? It looks like some big cells up there.
It's stormy, but not likely severe.



(And currently no severe warnings of any kind)
Quoting EYEStoSEA:
Hey Grothar....."the creeks out and a risin"...cant get to the rain gauge to check inches, but a LOT.....My sattelite dish is out and I'm going to unplug everything now....lightning is horrible.....check in later.


Wait, don't pull that plu...............
Quoting atmoaggie:
It's stormy, but not likely severe.



(And currently no severe warnings of any kind)


Funny, it looks bad. How do you get those so fast? I have been trying to get them for about 1/2 hour. (and I am and old codger. Would you want me any other way)
Quoting Grothar:


Funny, it looks bad. How do you get those so fast? I have been trying to get them for about 1/2 hour. (and I am and old codger. Would you want me any other way)

HERE IS BIG PICTURE

lots of weather

Quoting Grothar:


Funny, it looks bad. How do you get those so fast? I have been trying to get them for about 1/2 hour. (and I am and old codger. Would you want me any other way)
Like H7 in post 537...getting less organized.
Quoting sunlinepr:
Seems like this year will be a very active CV season...
Move those African waves in the ITCZ, 10 to 20 degrees north (Summer) and were ready...

Animation Link

Notice how the swirl East of Spain how it disipattes


The waves are dissipating and dont appear to be strong in anyway. Although that's normal for any given year, the truth is you dont know whats in store until the hurricane season is here, and the frontal system that caused NE flooding is pushing the all the lows in a dominoe effect which is hitting the low west of spain and forcing it into Morroco. So yes its weakening.
Howdy,

Just checkin some stuff out an thought I would share.

From the 2nd.



SDO has been doing a tremendous job!

Lots to dig into on the site.

http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/

Let alone this site -- clickable pic



And always check here for good stuff :)

http://spaceweather.com/



Big picture, we need this stuff, don't let it slip away.......
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:

HERE IS BIG PICTURE

lots of weather



They expect some severe flooding in the Northeast at the end of the week. I have a home there. They told me this afternoon the creeks were a'risin and the rivers are just at flood stage. Won't take much to get them going. They have a tremendous amount of snow on the ground and with that much rain, it is not a good thing.
7.2 earthquake hits off coast of Japan

There is a tsunami.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/


Dont know how large.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
7.2 earthquake hits off coast of Japan



We covered that a couple of hours ago. How you doing JF. Looks like some severe weather down in the South. Nasty looking storms.
TSUNAMI INFORMATION STATEMENT NUMBER 2
NWS WEST COAST/ALASKA TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER PALMER AK
802 PM PST TUE MAR 8 2011

NEW SEA LEVEL DATA

...THIS TSUNAMI INFORMATION STATEMENT IS FOR ALASKA/ BRITISH
COLUMBIA/ WASHINGTON/ OREGON AND CALIFORNIA ONLY...

NO WARNING... NO WATCH AND NO ADVISORY IS IN EFFECT FOR
THE STATES AND PROVINCES PREVIOUSLY LISTED.

EVALUATION
SEA LEVEL READINGS INDICATE A TSUNAMI WAS GENERATED WHICH MAY HAVE
BEEN DESTRUCTIVE ALONG COASTS NEAR THE EARTHQUAKE EPICENTER.

A DAMAGING TSUNAMI IS NOT EXPECTED ALONG THE CALIFORNIA/ OREGON/
WASHINGTON/ BRITISH COLUMBIA AND ALASKA COASTS ALTHOUGH
SOME OF THESE AREAS MAY EXPERIENCE NON-DAMAGING SEA LEVEL CHANGES.

MEASUREMENTS OR REPORTS OF TSUNAMI ACTIVITY

LOCATION LAT LON TIME AMPL
------------------------ ----- ------ ------- -----------
OFUNATO JAPAN 39.0N 141.8E 0311UTC 01.8FT/00.54M

TIME - TIME OF MEASUREMENT
AMPL - TSUNAMI AMPLITUDES ARE MEASURED RELATIVE TO NORMAL SEA LEVEL.
IT IS ...NOT... CREST-TO-TROUGH WAVE HEIGHT.
VALUES ARE GIVEN IN BOTH METERS(M) AND FEET(FT).

PRELIMINARY EARTHQUAKE PARAMETERS
MAGNITUDE - 7.2
TIME - 1745 AKST MAR 08 2011
1845 PST MAR 08 2011
0245 UTC MAR 09 2011
LOCATION - 38.3 NORTH 143.3 EAST
- OFF EAST COAST OF HONSHU JAPAN
DEPTH - 6 MILES/10 KM

Quoting Grothar:


We covered that a couple of hours ago. How you doing JF. Looks like some severe weather down in the South. Nasty looking storms.


Hi - Slow I guess. How high was it.
Quoting sunlinepr:
Seems like this year will be a very active CV season...
Move those African waves in the ITCZ, 10 to 20 degrees north (Summer) and were ready...

Animation Link

Notice how the swirl East of Spain how it disipattes


The waves are dissipating and dont appear to be strong in anyway. Although that's normal for any given year, the truth is you dont know whats in store until the hurricane season is here, and the frontal system that caused NE flooding is pushing the all the lows in a dominoe effect which is hitting the low west of spain and forcing it into Morroco. So yes its weakening.
Oh i was looking at the updated warning - it was like almost 2 hrs ago.


Does anyone know what the wave was like near the epicenter?
#529
Global warming
Climate change
ETC......
Cant we just find a way to have a cleaner planet and still fund the response to Ma Natures disasters without destroying wealth that could help us out in the short term?
And long term?

Is that really too much to ask?
Really?
I drive by construction sites and see shoddily placed/constructed runoff barriers.
Isnt that someones job to inspect that sort of thing?
I bet you there is someone being paid to do that.
Has anyone ever seen someone inspecting those fabric barriers?
Sediment runoff is a well mandated necessity.
There are mega funds and regulations for this purpose.
Have you seen construction sites that the fabric does not even meet the ground?
Or is so poorly placed as to be meaningless?
Are there not representatives that sit on oversight committees that are paid extra to do oversight?
Or are they just paid to pass laws that are redundant and never enforced?
Ask questions folks?
Please.
Look around you.
Do you know how many responses I have gotten to improperly placed Silt barriers?
None!
Do you know how many Gov employees know whom to contact for said complaints?
None!
Do you know that I spent 3 months worth of phone calls to my Gov officials asking what the ordinances were to build a pond in my front yard.
The last response I got before I gave up was.........
Wait for it........
Call (unnamed company)the company I work for,They should know!
The pond was never built!
?????
Too many laws and ordinances to ever figure out.
Yet business is supposed to prosper and jump over all those hoops.
Just stop and think about the possibility that Gov is too BIG.
Just entertain the notion for a second please.
I had the pond all figured out.
It would be fed(refilled) by my roof runoff and runoff from the yard.
The plants in the pond would absorb nutrients from runoff.
The harvested plants(growing in pond) would become compost to fertilize the yard.
Pond was never built.
The materials were never purchased.
When will the scenario change?
Limited Gov.
NOT!( NO Gov)
Its not out of the realm of possibilities is it?
It took Decades to get here.
It will take decades to reverse it.
And to hear the naysayers and talking heads?
We cant even start without the world coming to an end.
That tells me we are too reliant on Gov!
...
...
...
NOAA can find pretty close to 14% cuts without sacrificing lifesaving technologies and equipment.
It is that simple.
Because things have become too complicated via redundant, unenforced,undecipherable regulations.There needs to be a C change

Please just contemplate it for a few moments and contact a rep with cost cutting suggestions.
If you can actually get through to a rep via all the blocking tax paid employees.
MEASUREMENTS OR REPORTS OF TSUNAMI WAVE ACTIVITY
GAUGE LOCATION LAT LON TIME AMPL PER
OFUNATO HONSHU JP 39.0N 141.8E 0311Z 0.54M / 1.8FT 12MIN
LAT - LATITUDE (N-NORTH, S-SOUTH)
LON - LONGITUDE (E-EAST, W-WEST)
TIME - TIME OF THE MEASUREMENT (Z IS UTC IS GREENWICH TIME)
AMPL - TSUNAMI AMPLITUDE MEASURED RELATIVE TO NORMAL SEA LEVEL.
IT IS ...NOT... CREST-TO-TROUGH WAVE HEIGHT.
VALUES ARE GIVEN IN BOTH METERS(M) AND FEET(FT).
PER - PERIOD OF TIME IN MINUTES(MIN) FROM ONE WAVE TO THE NEXT.

Quoting Grothar:


You're doing well, spathy. I am watching everything you write. I am not good at math so I refrain from commenting. But you made some good points. 50% of the time I get the math wrong, and the other 60% I don't understand. Keep them on their toes.

I would imagine that you do quantitative math in your sleep. You don't get to be your age and not learn upper level math, just to figure out your age. Sorry, Grothar. I could not resist that little zing.

The Houston, TX area was under a no burn alert  last week due to dry conditions. Over the weekend and today we have gotten some decent rain. I have not heard if they canceled the alert. We may not have gotten enough rain for that.

Strong winds tonight here in N Mobile County. More severe weather to come in the A.M.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Oh i was looking at the updated warning - it was like almost 2 hrs ago.


Does anyone know what the wave was like near the epicenter?


I'm just glad you don't work for the Tsunami Warning Center. We could all be very wet by now. Don't know the info yet. Just wonder if they had any damage in Japan.
Quoting Grothar:


Thank you for tha. They can do that in school. LOL They have come a long way in identifying learning problems. I admit that I truly do have a problem with mathematics. It was never identified as such when I was in school. They referred to it as laziness. Now they know better. Still can't balance my checkbook though.


Thanks for the shared insight.
Thats a very friendly gesture.
And it warms the shared Spirit(humility) of humanities shortcomings as individuals.
And highlights the overwhelming possibilities of the individuals' spirit to strive.


LOL it would solve a lot of the arguments though. So about half a meter near shore was expected. Not horrible I guess. Thats a relief.

I need to set up my alerts. Over 6 and everyone should be looking for a tsunami, although even small earthquakes triggering a landslide can create them.
Lot's in a short period, with good size. That is unusual.

MAP 5.2 2011/03/09 04:05:54 38.870 142.420 10.9 NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
MAP 5.0 2011/03/09 03:19:00 38.795 142.962 19.9 NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
MAP 5.2 2011/03/09 03:08:36 38.339 143.097 24.4 OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
MAP 5.6 2011/03/09 02:57:17 38.402 142.825 17.5 NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
MAP 7.2 2011/03/09 02:45:18 38.510 142.792 14.1 NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN



Gnight~~~~
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:




A little zing never hurt anybody. Pythagoras didn't teach any quantative math and Euclid was always late to his classes, so I was a little deprived. They tried to teach me, but I told them it was all "Greek" to me. I did get as far as Quantum physics, but only because it was required. I never did that well, though. Theory I understood well, application, not so well.
Quoting Neapolitan:

it's not that Scott wants to close any extant parks, it's that his budget proposal doesn't allow a dime for "Florida Forever", the conservation land-buying initiative that has made many of those parks possible. And with land dirt cheap right now down here, there's not likely to be a better time to buy. Let the state legislature know: http://supportfloridaforever.org/

Unfortunately, Scott thinks he can run the state like a fiefdom, like a monarchy. But fortunately for us--and unfortunately for him--this is a democracy, so it's not his way or no way, much as he wishes it were.


Greetings Neapolitan,

I am not going to go back and quote directly, but I am quite sure you knew I was addressing an assertion that Gov. Scott was going to shut down Florida State Parks. Clearly, that is not the case. I was not, and did not, address Florida Forever. You have mentioned in the past that you are a member of a certain group of exceptionally gifted thinkers. Yet, you deflect the issue to gain what you see as a “win” for you, and play partisan politics. It truly troubles me that you would sink to the level that the partisans want the “common” folk at, and that is to divide us and keep us occupied while getting us into the mess we now find ourselves in.

Debate is a healthy thing Nea. Deflecting and inserting other issues in response to ones post so you can “one-up” them is not constructive, and quite frankly, is just plain dishonest. You and I have had disagreements in the past. That’s ok. I do not harbor ill feelings toward you. I just ask that you be respectful and honest, as I am towards you.

Please take care, and have a great evening.

Very Respectfully,

Jon
Quoting spathy:

Ah thank you.
I love WU.
So its a cut of remaining not total monies.
LOVE IT!
Refer to post #491.
Now We know the rest of the story.
Or do we?
Nrtiw...
You got your #s straight?
I bet you do.
You have always been a decent poster of relevant timely info.
So is my approximation of 10% to 12% reflective of total cuts of an entire fiscal year?


Not applicable, since the cuts are coming out of the REMAINDER of the budget. $454 million/$1.7 billion is 27%. The demanded cuts for next year will reflect this as well, with much more than $454 million cut out of the full-year budget for the next fiscal year (2012 if we ever get through with 2011's budget).
Quoting Grothar:


A little zing never hurt anybody. Pythagoras didn't teach any quantative math and Euclid was always late to his classes, so I was a little deprived. They tried to teach me, but I told them it was all "Greek" to me. I did get as far as Quantum physics, but only because it was required. I never did that well, though. Theory I understood well, application, not so well.


Some Mathematics is all Greek Hieroglyphics to me.



I think that pic is the grocery bill after taxes?
I could be mistaken.
Quoting Grothar:


They expect some severe flooding in the Northeast at the end of the week. I have a home there. They told me this afternoon the creeks were a'risin and the rivers are just at flood stage. Won't take much to get them going. They have a tremendous amount of snow on the ground and with that much rain, it is not a good thing.
lots of water with this one putting alot over the flood stage its going to be a long spring
Quoting spathy:


Thanks for the shared insight.
Thats a very friendly gesture.
And it warms the shared Spirit(humility) of humanities shortcomings as individuals.
And highlights the overwhelming possibilities of the individuals' spirit to strive.


That was a nice thought.
Quoting WatchingThisOne:


Not applicable, since the cuts are coming out of the REMAINDER of the budget. $454 million/$1.7 billion is 27%. The demanded cuts for next year will reflect this as well, with much more than $454 million cut out of the full-year budget for the next fiscal year (2012 if we ever get through with 2011's budget).

Sorry not buying it.
The previous explanation makes way more sense mathematically.
You are confusing remaining budget with total cuts.
NOT total cuts as a percentage of total budget.
Quoting spathy:


Some Mathematics is all Greek Hieroglyphics to me.



I think that pic is the grocery bill after taxes?
I could be mistaken.



Where did you get that, Publixus? That is funny!!!! Sometimes I dress up in a sheet to remind me of the old days.
Just plugged everything back in, still raining here but at least the lightning has subsided for now. Cant wait to take a look at my rain gauge in the morn...tremendous rains here and more coming. The Mighty Mississippi was already at flood stage...gonna be bad, I would think.
Quoting Grothar:



Where did you get that, Publixus? That is funny!!!! Sometimes I dress up in a sheet to remind me of the old days.

Thats odd?
I end up wandering around in a sheet thinking It is the old days.
Ya gotta laugh sometimes.
Otherwise its just depressing algorithms.
Groundhog day over daylight savings time.
Multiplied by GMT.
Oh very messy calculations for that one!
Quoting spathy:

Sorry not buying it.
The previous explanation makes way more sense mathematically.
You are confusing remaining budget with total cuts.
NOT total cuts as a percentage of total budget.


Sigh. The budget for the year to date has been SPENT. The proposed cuts come out of what is LEFT in the budget, i.e. about $1.7 billion.

Has the blog discussed the recent "SQUISHY ICE" report in Science? Ice sheet modeling may be in for an overhaul. I don't have the link to the Science paper, but here is the msnbc.com (yeah I know) report on it:

Robin Bell's Squishy Antarctic Ice
Quoting spathy:

Thats odd?
I end up wandering around in a sheet thinking It is the old days.
Ya gotta laugh sometimes.
Otherwise its just depressing algorithms.
Groundhog day over daylight savings time.
Multiplied by GMT.
Oh very messy calculations for that one!


It's not nice too confuse old people. By the way, when is DST this year, must be coming soon. That really sends me over the top.
Grothar, get ready to amp up your geritol intake next Sunday
Quoting WatchingThisOne:


Sigh. The budget for the year to date has been SPENT. The proposed cuts come out of what is LEFT in the budget, i.e. about $1.7 billion.

Has the blog discussed the recent "SQUISHY ICE" report in Science? Ice sheet modeling may be in for an overhaul. I don't have the link to the Science paper, but here is the msnbc.com (yeah I know) report on it:

Robin Bell's Squishy Antarctic Ice


Um I dont care when the pie was consumed.
The total cuts as a percentage of the total budget is not 28%.
5 Billion.
1/2 billion.
4 Billion
1/2 Billion does not equal a 28% cut.
I could be wrong.
But so far the # dont add up to a 28% cut.
And if they did?
Well then its time to cut the fat!
And life saving technologies are NOT fat.
Get out the books and go over them again!
I have confidence in NOAA.
I think they are smart enough to find the fat without cutting life saving programs.
That is unless they are unwilling to pay more for their own benefits down the road.
And in turn sacrifice the lives lost via the cut in programs.
It is more than doable.
The majority of America has had to do the same.
From the link Masters' left..

(March 7, 2011) The Senate Appropriations Committee has released a proposed alternative to HR 1 that would make a $110 million reduction to NOAA operations for the remainder of the fiscal year, rather than the $454 reduction approved by the House. Of the $110 million cut, $104 million was from earmarks that are no longer funded. This effectively only cuts the NOAA ORF budget by $6 million.

The Senate Appropriations Committee justified the higher funding levels for NOAA stating in their March 4 press release, "The House cuts an additional $340 million which would threaten critical weather forecasts and warnings."


Quoting Grothar:


A little zing never hurt anybody. Pythagoras didn't teach any quantative math and Euclid was always late to his classes, so I was a little deprived. They tried to teach me, but I told them it was all "Greek" to me. I did get as far as Quantum physics, but only because it was required. I never did that well, though. Theory I understood well, application, not so well.

Yes, I remember Pythagoras as well. I seem to remember he was always trying to find a new angle for doing things. I never could figure out was wrong with the old angles. Euclid was a bit iffy, at times. He told me once that his sun dial was broke. I tried to explain to him that it will work, if he moved it from under that shade tree. He said no. Pythagoras told him it work better at that angle. I was still a rookie then too and did not offer my suggestion again. I don't know if he ever did make it anywhere on time.

Yes, the Greeks. That kept trying leave me a gift at my doorstep, but I never did find the angle to get inside. I wonder what they finally did with it. One day, it was just gone. Somebody told me that Troy bought it. Seems they had a bigger doorway.



There's more..

Impact of HR 1 reductions on NWS

Section 1327 of HR 1 cuts NOAA’s ORF by $454 million (or 14%) over FY 10 enacted levels.

• NWS ORF makes up 27% of NOAA ORF ($892 million in FY 10).

• Assuming Administration allocates cuts to NOAA ORF proportionately to
all NOAA line offices, NWS will be required to assume $125 million in
reduction in funding for remainder of FY 11.

As FY 11 is already half over, the effective rate of reduction to NWS
funding would be 28%.
In other words, $125 million reduction must be taken from
remaining $446 million six-month expenditures.

• NWS is already underfunded at FY 10 levels. According to a November 5,
2010 memorandum from the NWS’s CFO to the NWS Director:

Congress has also under-funded NWS’s labor costs by not fully funding yearly pay adjustments, associated benefits, and GS step increases. Yearly under-funding without authority to align labor with available funding has created a
structural shortfall that adds to an increasing legacy of unrecoverable debt. In FY11, OCFO is projecting the NWS structural labor funding shortfall at $15M.


Dr Masters didn't mess up his math..
A good post needs reposting.

570. Eagle101 4:42 AM GMT on March 09, 2011 Hide this comment.

Quoting Neapolitan:

it's not that Scott wants to close any extant parks, it's that his budget proposal doesn't allow a dime for "Florida Forever", the conservation land-buying initiative that has made many of those parks possible. And with land dirt cheap right now down here, there's not likely to be a better time to buy. Let the state legislature know: http://supportfloridaforever.org/

Unfortunately, Scott thinks he can run the state like a fiefdom, like a monarchy. But fortunately for us--and unfortunately for him--this is a democracy, so it's not his way or no way, much as he wishes it were.



Greetings Neapolitan,

I am not going to go back and quote directly, but I am quite sure you knew I was addressing an assertion that Gov. Scott was going to shut down Florida State Parks. Clearly, that is not the case. I was not, and did not, address Florida Forever. You have mentioned in the past that you are a member of a certain group of exceptionally gifted thinkers. Yet, you deflect the issue to gain what you see as a “win” for you, and play partisan politics. It truly troubles me that you would sink to the level that the partisans want the “common” folk at, and that is to divide us and keep us occupied while getting us into the mess we now find ourselves in.

Debate is a healthy thing Nea. Deflecting and inserting other issues in response to ones post so you can “one-up” them is not constructive, and quite frankly, is just plain dishonest. You and I have had disagreements in the past. That’s ok. I do not harbor ill feelings toward you. I just ask that you be respectful and honest, as I am towards you.

Please take care, and have a great evening.

Very Respectfully,

Jon
Action: Quote | Ignore User
Member Since: January 7, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 37
Quoting Neapolitan:
Earth's ice sheets melting at faster pace, study finds

"The ice sheets covering both ends of Earth are losing mass at an accelerating pace, and are on a faster-than-projected path to surpass other sources of rising sea levels, according to a new study.

"'The magnitude of the acceleration suggests that ice sheets will be the dominant contributors to sea level rise in forthcoming decades,' the team of researchers concluded after surveying 18 years of satellite and modeling data from Antarctica and Greenland.

"'That ice sheets will dominate future sea level rise is not surprising — they hold a lot more ice mass than mountain glaciers,' lead author Eric Rignot, of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, said in a statement. 'What is surprising is this increased contribution by the ice sheets is already happening,' he added. 'If present trends continue, sea level is likely to be significantly higher than levels projected by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 2007'.

"The study will be published later this month in the peer-reviewed Geophysical Research Letters, a journal of the American Geophysical Union."

Article...

(Never mind that the ice that's disappearing is in some cases tens of thousands of years old; we've only got 40 years' worth of observational data, so it's probably nothing to worry about.)


And yet the ice in Antarctica is freezing FROM THE BOTTOM.

Widespread Persistent Thickening of the East Antarctic Ice Sheet by Freezing from the Base

Abstract:

"...An International Polar Year aerogeophysical investigation of the high interior of East Antarctica reveals widespread freeze-on that drives significant mass redistribution at the bottom of the ice sheet. While surface accumulation of snow remains the primary mechanism for ice sheet growth, beneath Dome A 24% of the base by area is frozen-on ice. In some places, up to half the ice thickness has been added from below. These ice packages result from conductive cooling of water ponded near the Gamburtsev Subglacial Mountain ridges and supercooling of water forced up steep valley walls. Persistent freeze-on thickens the ice column, alters basal ice rheology and fabric and upwarps the overlying ice sheet, including the oldest atmospheric climate archive, and drives flow behavior not captured in present models..."

If the ice is freezing from the bottom, doesn't that upset the ice cores? Deeper ice may be NEWER ice.
Quoting Skyepony:
From the link Masters' left..

(March 7, 2011) The Senate Appropriations Committee has released a proposed alternative to HR 1 that would make a $110 million reduction to NOAA operations for the remainder of the fiscal year, rather than the $454 reduction approved by the House. Of the $110 million cut, $104 million was from earmarks that are no longer funded. This effectively only cuts the NOAA ORF budget by $6 million.

The Senate Appropriations Committee justified the higher funding levels for NOAA stating in their March 4 press release, "The House cuts an additional $340 million which would threaten critical weather forecasts and warnings."



Sky
You know this stuff better than I.
I dont like cuts in life saving programs.
From your above post.
The added cuts add up to450 million.
Out of even the most conservative estimate of total NOAA budget.
That is still not more than a 14%/18% cut in total revenue.
Out of a 4 Billion $ budget there has to be at least 10 % waste.
These cuts should not result in NEEDED life saving programs.
If they do?
Then the problem is not with the cuts.
The problem is within the NOAA administrators.
28% is severe....
Yet should be contemplated or attempted.
14% to 18% is standard readjustment.
And any life saving programs that fail as a result is a failure on the part of the NOAA administration.
I see no other conclusion.
But then again I am quite often wrong.
Please help me out here.
I dont want cuts.
But thats where our lazy spineless reps have left us.
It scares the crap outa me(cuts)
But the alternative is way worse.
Spathy you do have some good points that shorting everyone at least a little points out the waste.. I think 6 million is plenty enough for NWS. They are such an investment.

I see govt work from the NASA aspect. The way this budget wasn't passed before the start of the year has been hard on internal budgets & employees. It's messed up enough the way money & times money is allocated to throw in not knowing how much you get to accomplish your torn goals with.
Quoting jeffs713:


Just to address a few things:

1. True.
2. You have a better solution?
3. Gasoline and motor oil is considered hazardous waste, too.
4. A good chunk of the weight in the battery pack is offset by the decreased weight in the engine compartment. Also, many current battery packs rely on outdated technology (Ni-Cd and Ni-MH batteries), which are much heavier than other current battery technologies (Li-polymer, for example). The biggest hurdle for development of the new battery technologies is the car maker's resistance to investing in mass production of the new batteries. (and issues getting the raw materials, since they are not terribly common)
5. See #4. Also, think about how much it costs to replace a gasoline fuel system in a car. And to maintain said fuel system. Batteries are a bigger one-time cost, but over the long haul, tend to even out.

Right now, electric and hybrid vehicles are in their developmental stages. Think about it - whenever a new technology comes out, it doesn't get mass appeal right away. Remember back when mobile phones were gigantic, heavy, cumbersome things? (some of the younger generation may not remember those days) You have a cell phone now, don't you? Adoption of new technologies takes time. It takes several generations of the technology to gain mass market appeal. If you compare cell phones and electric vehicles, I would relate today's electric/hybrid technology to be at about the same stage as when cell phones first became completely hand-held, and you didn't need to carry a battery pack with you.


Greetings Jeff,

To address some of your questions/comments:

2. Yes. And, it would not take one-billion dollars to do it. Many universities have already demonstrated exceptional solutions. The problem is one of integration. The designs are typically quite small and aerodynamic. Mixing them with the one-ton plus vehicles’ we commonly drive would not be an ideal solution. The closest analogy I can provide for you is that it would be just like taking on the risk of driving a motorcycle. (Before anyone comments…I drive a sport bike, and I know.) Clean, small designs, like motorcycles, are hard to see, or at least that is the most common excuse given when there is an accident.

3. Agreed.

4. Here are some interesting facts for you: If you thoroughly read my response, I mentioned “chemical” batteries. This would include Lion, etcetera. Converting, for example, a Chevrolet Cavalier produced some surprising results. Curb weight came in at 3700 lbs. Ouch! This particular conversion used a twenty horsepower motor, and if driven with care, you could expect 60 to 70 miles, with a top speed of 75 mph (but not for long!) A new, modern design, could easily achieve 100 or more miles (again, with careful planning on the drivers part.) You will not lose as much weight as you think, when converting. New design is the way to go, but how many people are you going to convince to deal with the issues addressed in 2, above? BTW…the operating cost savings of an EV are quite good, pennies on the dollar compared to gasoline, and needless to say, much better for the environment. Again, until you have to replace the batteries.

While battery technology has come a long way, the best performing, are, of course, the most expensive. Power density is getting better. Again, we have a long way to go. Physics (and economics) just can’t be beat, no matter how noble the cause.

I hope I have not left you with the impression that I am against EV’s. Quite to the contrary, I would love to see fleets and fleets of them. The reality, right now, is that our best hope is going to be with hybrids until more R & D can produce a product the public can embrace. The cell phone analogy just won’t work here. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges. That is how it works.

Take care and have a great evening.

Very Respectfully,

Jon
Quoting hcubed:


And yet the ice in Antarctica is freezing FROM THE BOTTOM.

Widespread Persistent Thickening of the East Antarctic Ice Sheet by Freezing from the Base

Abstract:

"...An International Polar Year aerogeophysical investigation of the high interior of East Antarctica reveals widespread freeze-on that drives significant mass redistribution at the bottom of the ice sheet. While surface accumulation of snow remains the primary mechanism for ice sheet growth, beneath Dome A 24% of the base by area is frozen-on ice. In some places, up to half the ice thickness has been added from below. These ice packages result from conductive cooling of water ponded near the Gamburtsev Subglacial Mountain ridges and supercooling of water forced up steep valley walls. Persistent freeze-on thickens the ice column, alters basal ice rheology and fabric and upwarps the overlying ice sheet, including the oldest atmospheric climate archive, and drives flow behavior not captured in present models..."

If the ice is freezing from the bottom, doesn't that upset the ice cores? Deeper ice may be NEWER ice.


Ice cores are on land, not ocean. Ice is not added to the bottom of a land-based icecap. Everything is from snowpack on top.

Furthermore, ice getting added to the bottom of a floating ice sheet is nothing new, and is perfectly natural. It occurs whenever a body of water freezes over. That's the only way ice on top of a lake thickens over time.
Spathy~ Follow me here.. from masters' entry.. This would mean a draconian 28% cut for the National Weather Service. He's link the NWS saying they would get a 28% cut..NWS because their parent directory NOAA gets a 14%.. your working out the math for NOAA. NWS is just a part of them, the part that saves people, not fish.
Quoting Skyepony:


There's more..

Impact of HR 1 reductions on NWS

Section 1327 of HR 1 cuts NOAA’s ORF by $454 million (or 14%) over FY 10 enacted levels.

• NWS ORF makes up 27% of NOAA ORF ($892 million in FY 10).

• Assuming Administration allocates cuts to NOAA ORF proportionately to
all NOAA line offices, NWS will be required to assume $125 million in
reduction in funding for remainder of FY 11.

As FY 11 is already half over, the effective rate of reduction to NWS
funding would be 28%.
In other words, $125 million reduction must be taken from
remaining $446 million six-month expenditures.

• NWS is already underfunded at FY 10 levels. According to a November 5,
2010 memorandum from the NWS’s CFO to the NWS Director:

Congress has also under-funded NWS’s labor costs by not fully funding yearly pay adjustments, associated benefits, and GS step increases. Yearly under-funding without authority to align labor with available funding has created a
structural shortfall that adds to an increasing legacy of unrecoverable debt. In FY11, OCFO is projecting the NWS structural labor funding shortfall at $15M.


Dr Masters didn't mess up his math..


Sky I love ya honey but even with the additional 125 million.
It still only adds up to 575 million in in a budget of close to 4 or 5 Billion.
That is still not a cut of 28 %
It does not matter when the yearly monies were spent/or when the cuts occur within the year.
It is total $ spent and total $ cut.
There is no other spin or NEW Math.
It is what it is.
Fire the fund grabbing spinners within NOAA and hire half that # of money savers and it might turn out for the better..
And from your own posted figures they got an estimated 14% increase from 2010.
Are you taking that into the figures?
I think thats a land one levi - with melt from compression refrozen on the sides.

Its not a universal phenomena and its not known if the mechanism means loss projections will accelerate or decline. The research has not been out long enough to make projections on.
Quoting Levi32:


Ice cores are on land, not ocean. Ice is not added to the bottom of a land-based icecap. Everything is from snowpack on top.

Furthermore, ice getting added to the bottom of a floating ice sheet is nothing new, and is perfectly natural. It occurs whenever a body of water freezes over. That's the only way ice on top of a lake thickens over time.


Re-read the abstract then. They mention Dome A, which, according to wiki, is 1200km inland.

They seem to be saying that ice is being added to the bottom of the LAND ice sheets - "Persistent freeze-on thickens the ice column, alters basal ice rheology and fabric and upwarps the overlying ice sheet, including the oldest atmospheric climate archive..."
What up with Watts Mann obsession? Those emails have been out for a while now and he keeps rehashing the same one over and over.

The hockey stick has been verified. We are going up the handle now.

I don't see the point of the hysteria, alarmist and extremist rhetoric but im sure they are going to have a lot of money wasted on that.

Its weird what they take on total faith from their handler over there. Right from gods mouth to watts computer to their ears.
Quoting Skyepony:
Spathy you do have some good points that shorting everyone at least a little points out the waste.. I think 6 million is plenty enough for NWS. They are such an investment.

I see govt work from the NASA aspect. The way this budget wasn't passed before the start of the year has been hard on internal budgets & employees. It's messed up enough the way money & times money is allocated to throw in not knowing how much you get to accomplish your torn goals with.


Sure
We did not even mention the fact that the inability for the last congress to pass a budget costs mega bucks in a program such as NOAA(not to even mention )NASA as to almost negate the cuts that are being discussed.
Let me repeat that.
The delays in producing an on time budget cost billions of dollars in delayed projects/confused down the line budgeting/contract failures etc.
IMO
All the more reason to get our -hit in order.
The fiscal house is in bankruptcy and the ones in charge are morally bankrupt as well.
If not now ???
WHEN?
Why doesnt Watts go back to college get a real climate degree and publish a legitimate counter theory? Its just a lot of wasted energy, like the 9/11 truther movement. Hes always right on the edge of disproving it all and a huge conspiracy is about to be blown wide open.

Then surprise, it never happens. In a few years the political stuff always looks backwards and silly anyway. If the science is legit it will survive if its not something better will come along.
The fiscal house is in bankruptcy and the ones in charge are morally bankrupt as well.

Thats not true and future commitments are where the real problems are. Spath we create wealth. Out of nothing really. Policy even. I dont know why people are so alarmist and hysterical all of a sudden about deficit spending and monetary policy. (alarmist is my new favorite word)
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:




Beware of Greeks bearing Gifts.
Quoting Skyepony:
Spathy~ Follow me here.. from masters' entry.. This would mean a draconian 28% cut for the National Weather Service. He's link the NWS saying they would get a 28% cut..NWS because their parent directory NOAA gets a 14%.. your working out the math for NOAA. NWS is just a part of them, the part that saves people, not fish.


Ok so there is a possible additional percentage.
If that % is not part of the total?
?
Then we are still only talking about an 18% cut.
And what were the last two fiscal years budget increases?
If the total by every concievable trick of the wording is actually 23%.
Well then they have alot of work to do at Noaa to save the most life saving programs.
And the employees better face the music and be prepared for cuts in benefits.
Its there.
Its sweet.
And before lives are lost.
They better fork over some sacrifice.
Remember.
Just
Spathys
Opinion.
JMO
Beware Uzo.

Ash Wednesday arrives in NOLA.

When's Jazz Fest ?
The Federal and State Employees can either sacrifice like the rest of the private sector.
Or they will be replaced.
It will come to that folks.
Do you want to pay a little more out of your own pocket like you continually demand of the Taxpayer?
Or do you want to be replaced?
Oh and Republican lawmakers and Democrats?
You are in that group.
The majority of American citizens have had enough.
You aint seen nothing yet if the last election has no solid results.
The silent majority has only began to awaken.
Sky I still say NOAA is NOAA.
The differing %s as departments are divided is a waste of math.
NOAA Is NOAA
The Noaa budget is just that a singular entity.
The cut is a singular cut.
The pot has been stirred.
NOAA needs to cut 14%.
They better get to work,... not toss the cards and shuffle the cups.
The Tax payer is not just blowing hot air here.
This is real.
I think there are better places for cuts and they would make NOAAs entire budget look ridiculous in comparison.



Rank Country% Military expenditure, 2009 % of GDP, 2008
1 United States United States of America 663,255,000,000 4.3%
2 People's Republic of China China 98,800,000,000 2.0%
3 United Kingdom United Kingdom 69,271,000,000 2.5%
4 France France 67,316,000,000 2.3%
5 Russia Russian Federation 61,000,000,000 3.5%
6 Germany Germany 48,022,000,000 1.3%
7 Japan Japan 46,859,000,000 0.9%
8 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia 39,257,000,000 8.2%
9 Italy Italy 37,427,000,000 1.7%
10 India India 36,600,000,000 2.6%
11 South Korea South Korea 27,130,000,000 2.8%
12 Brazil Brazil 27,124,000,000 1.5%
13 Canada Canada 20,564,000,000 1.3%
14 Australia Australia 20,109,000,000 1.8%
15 Spain Spain 19,409,000,000 1.2%
Quoting spathy:
Sky I still say NOAA is NOAA.
The differing %s as departments are divided is a waste of math.
NOAA Is NOAA
The Noaa budget is just that a singular entity.
The cut is a singular cut.
The pot has been stirred.
NOAA needs to cut 14%.
They better get to work,... not toss the cards and shuffle the cups.
The Tax payer is not just blowing hot air here.
This is real.


You're blowing smoke on the math, sorry.

Since it's late at night, let me set forth an example.

Suppose you are working for me and we agree that you will work for $4000 a month. You have a 1-year contract, with a negotiated renewal after that.

Six months into the year, I tell you that you now have to work for $2000 a month.

Before I tell you this, I have paid you $4000 a month for six months. You have received $24,000 at that point.

Now you will work the rest of the year, and any year after that that you choose to work for me, for half as much. So you will receive $12,000 rather than $24,000 for the remaining 6 months of the contract and $24,000 per year instead of $48,000 per year for each following year.

The cut in your budgeted income is 50% for the remainder of this year ($12,000 rather than $24,000) and 50% for next year ($24,000 rather than $48,000). That I paid you for the six months just ended at the originally agreed rate is completely irrelevant. You still have to give up the car. Or, in the case of the NWS, really important stuff. They have to slash spending by 28% if the House proposal is the final budget.

Skye is right ... Dr. Masters didn't make any mistakes in math.

One more thing ... the longer the cuts are postponed, the deeper they are going to have to be (for this fiscal year) to satisfy the Congressional newcomers.

The federal government runs out of money (well, actually, authorized borrowing) next Friday. Let's all hope some sort of compromise can be hammered together between now and then.

p.s. Finance MBA, 20 years as CFO for various public and private corporations. I understand budgeting and spending (they are not the same) and how budget cuts operate. Just so you stop arguing :)
Quoting Skyepony:
Spathy you do have some good points that shorting everyone at least a little points out the waste.. I think 6 million is plenty enough for NWS. They are such an investment.

I see govt work from the NASA aspect. The way this budget wasn't passed before the start of the year has been hard on internal budgets & employees. It's messed up enough the way money & times money is allocated to throw in not knowing how much you get to accomplish your torn goals with.


Greetings Skye,

I have felt this pain, unfortunately, many times. When the Congress fails to pass a budget, and we (the Government) end up working on continuing resolutions, it drives many to complete distraction. Contracts that were paid for with last year’s money continue, as they should. However, working in the current fiscal year, quite often, is quite an adventure for sure. You have to pick and choose what to accomplish, and hope you picked the right items. If not, if for example, someone’s priority changes, look out. The preverbal you know what is going to hit the fan.

We deal with those scenarios, and move on. What really drives me crazy is at the end of the fiscal year, when the flood gates open. You then expend many hours of overtime trying to find ways to spend, in an efficient manner, all the money that has magically dropped out of the sky that you could have really used throughout the year. And, you better spend every last penny, otherwise, you lose funding the following year. It is a catch twenty-two, and one of the many items we must reform to make government more efficient. Yes, it quite maddening, for sure. Thank goodness I no longer have to deal with these issues.

As for the NASA/NOAA/NWS budget issues, I am in complete agreement that we must choose which fights to engage in. Protecting people clearly must be the number one issue. Period. After that, everything else is gravy, especially considering the enormous budget cuts that are sure to come. I am sure I am going to take some serious flack for this, but in my humble opinion, NASA Space Flight needs to take a serious safety timeout to, yet again, examine its operations and safety. Splashing yet another satellite, is well, just unbelievable. Before anybody tries to flame me, I am fully aware that current launch vehicles’ are contractor provided. Clearly, something must change. I actually listened to the press briefing following the failure. It was, well, just sad. With the current fiscal restraints, how are these folks going to ask Congress for a “do-over.” Good question, indeed. The sad reality is that we may have to wait a number of years before these very important sensors can be realized. In the meantime, we have lost yet another nearly invaluable research tool. Truly sad, indeed.

Very Respectfully,

Jon
Thank you all for being so kind to listen to Spathy.
All my WU friends have made good points.
Spathy may just be too dense to figure them out.
Or the transverse narative may even be possible.
None the less this has been a great give and take without many sidetracking interjections aimed at inflaming and diverting the subject.
And for that I am grateful and appreciative.
Kinda like my feelings about SPELLCHECKER.
Only with a personal touch.
Have a good evening folks.
Spathy Out.
Actually I dont understand why we pay if a contracted system fails. Esp if it has more than once. Aint satellites insured?
One more thing.
From the link.
Follow the wording.
"The Senate Appropriations Committee justified the higher funding levels for NOAA stating in their March 4 press release, "The House cuts an additional $340 million which would threaten critical weather forecasts and warnings."
That 340 is the rounding subtracted from the compromise of 110.
340 is not added to 450 it is the dif rounded between the two.
That post purposefully mixes words and does strange rounding meant to confuse.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Actually I dont understand why we pay if a contracted system fails. Esp if it has more than once. Aint satellites insured?

Good point.
I would hope we only pay for the peripheral costs.
The insured is the parts etc.
But in a massive undertaking like space and satellite operations.
The hardware is the least expensive,I would think.
The research and support staff(non insured/(insurable) would be at least 3x the cost of the hardware.
That part of the operation still exists.
The insured hardware(operating vehicle)is the insured loss.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Actually I dont understand why we pay if a contracted system fails. Esp if it has more than once.


Greetings JFlorida,

You win the ‘observation of the year award,’ my friend. Government contracts are quite complicated, as I am sure you realize. There may, or may not, be a performance clause in the contract. I sure as heck hope there was. I fear, however, that we may be left holding this bag, so to speak, yet again.

In the post accident press conference, both NASA and the contractor were visibly shaken up, as one might expect. The lead engineer for the contractor went through a protracted period of explaining the previous malfunction, and describing the changes to the current vehicle, based on the previous failure.

It was quite clear that a couple of the briefers probably knew that would be their last briefing, at least for the positions they held. I was listening to the engineer describe the failure mode, both previous, and best guess for the current. I will just throw this two cents worth in: If I was responsible for this vehicle, I would have demanded multiple tests, to ensure all the possible failure modes were identified, and addressed. It is quite evident, that they did not fully understand all the possibilities. I will be looking forward to reading the mishap report in another year or two. Should be quite interesting, for sure.

Take care,

Very Respectfully,

Jon
We deal with those scenarios, and move on. What really drives me crazy is at the end of the fiscal year, when the flood gates open. You then expend many hours of overtime trying to find ways to spend, in an efficient manner, all the money that has magically dropped out of the sky that you could have really used throughout the year. And, you better spend every last penny, otherwise, you lose funding the following year. It is a catch twenty-two, and one of the many items we must reform to make government more efficient. Yes, it quite maddening, for sure. Thank goodness I no longer have to deal with these issues.

Refer to my previous post about at the end of the year.....
Spend it or loose it.
Thanks.
A step up to the plate honest Gov employee.
Past employee?
Quoting WatchingThisOne:


You're blowing smoke on the math, sorry.

Since it's late at night, let me set forth an example.

Suppose you are working for me and we agree that you will work for $4000 a month. You have a 1-year contract, with a negotiated renewal after that.

Six months into the year, I tell you that you now have to work for $2000 a month.

Before I tell you this, I have paid you $4000 a month for six months. You have received $24,000 at that point.

Now you will work the rest of the year, and any year after that that you choose to work for me, for half as much. So you will receive $12,000 rather than $24,000 for the remaining 6 months of the contract and $24,000 per year instead of $48,000 per year for each following year.

The cut in your budgeted income is 50% for the remainder of this year ($12,000 rather than $24,000) and 50% for next year ($24,000 rather than $48,000). That I paid you for the six months just ended at the originally agreed rate is completely irrelevant. You still have to give up the car. Or, in the case of the NWS, really important stuff. They have to slash spending by 28% if the House proposal is the final budget.

Skye is right ... Dr. Masters didn't make any mistakes in math.

One more thing ... the longer the cuts are postponed, the deeper they are going to have to be (for this fiscal year) to satisfy the Congressional newcomers.

The federal government runs out of money (well, actually, authorized borrowing) next Friday. Let's all hope some sort of compromise can be hammered together between now and then.

p.s. Finance MBA, 20 years as CFO for various public and private corporations. I understand budgeting and spending (they are not the same) and how budget cuts operate. Just so you stop arguing :)


Am I arguing ?
Sorry.
But dollars allocated and dollars cut within a fiscal year dont end up as a portion multiplied via a fraction %.
Total budget /fiscal year as a portion of budget cut within a fiscal is a flat %.
I have been budgeted $100 for a fiscal year.(Jan-Dec)
In Dec you tell me I can only spend $86.
Thats a 14% cut period end of story.
If It were Dec things might get sticky.
Its not.
Its Fiscally April.
Quoting WatchingThisOne:


You're blowing smoke on the math, sorry.

p.s. Finance MBA, 20 years as CFO for various public and private corporations. I understand budgeting and spending (they are not the same) and how budget cuts operate. Just so you stop arguing :)


Let me add some perspective to this. I have observed rich Nazis since 1965 stealing grotesque amounts of money from decent Americans. I have watched criminally insane Nazis steal from the American public to fund the death of 3.4 Million innocent Vietnamese citizens who did not threaten the American public in any way. I have watched a grotesque Nazi military suck the life out of our nation since the Second World War in a grotesque theft. Grotesque theft.

Do all you bird-brained WorldNetDaily idiots understand that you are being ripped off by Nazi warmakers?

Or do you revel in the fact that the Nazi war-makers are attempting to ruin the NOAA?

I am so shocked, so dismayed, so disappointed with the average Limbaugh/Hannity/O'Liely saturated buffoon that I can't tell you how much I riducule you... the ridiculous.

This is a blog about science. This is a blog about community understanding. This is a blog that follows the precepts of decency and morality.

Therefore. If in the future any lying jackass wants to cite "WorldNetDaily" or "WattsUpWithThat" as a valid source, I propose that we tar and feather that moronic idiot until the management here decides this website needs some real adult supervision and anyone who ridiculously or as a venal prostitute attempts to post Nazi, pro-right wing lies SHOULD BE BANNED FOR LIFE AS AN ENEMY OF THIS NATION. Pick the nation of your choice. I understand that we have contributors from Tasmania, Canada, the UK, Europa and beyond. But the most ridiculous, egregious, superficial and disgusting Nazis alive today emanate from U.S.A., U.S.A.!

My point is that the Nazi point of view is poison and needs to extirpated from civil society. I'd start by eradicating about half of the Congress in the U.S. The half that are bought-and-paid-for whores for the Nazi corporations.

[To the thought police here at Weather Underground who are almost instantaneously informed of this post by little-minded snitches, I hope you can leave this post up long enough so that I can get sent to Quantico to form a perfect UNION with Bradley Manning.]

As Benjamin Franklin emphatically informed us, we are all going to hang together, or we are all going to hang separately.

I do not see much of a gulf between what Dr. Jeff Masters attempts to do to tell us the truth about climate and what Bradley Manning did in attempting to tell us the truth about the fraud that is our criminal war machine.

But I have to admit to being angered that any idiot would dare to come here on this blog and spew the ridiculous nonsense of the right-wing lie machine. Shame on you if you do.

This is a place for truth. Not for fascist frauds. And you know who you are you little worms. Oh, sorry, that's wrong. Worms are honorable little soil creators. The Nazis spewing here are toxic waste attempting to poison the rest of us. So Watts Up With That?
"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes."
(Shakespeare), Macbeth, Act IV, Scene 1

Quoting swampliliy:



OK- I'm a moron- sorry :))))


Understandable> My mistake as we operate in different languages. The real full name of the town is ''Moron de la Frontera'' but everybody here being mostly Spanish call it 'Moron,' the Spanish air force have a lot of planes there as well.
I think the US have 4 bases that they use, here in Spain at the present time.
Quoting Eagle101:


Greetings Neapolitan,

I am not going to go back and quote directly, but I am quite sure you knew I was addressing an assertion that Gov. Scott was going to shut down Florida State Parks. Clearly, that is not the case. I was not, and did not, address Florida Forever. You have mentioned in the past that you are a member of a certain group of exceptionally gifted thinkers. Yet, you deflect the issue to gain what you see as a “win” for you, and play partisan politics. It truly troubles me that you would sink to the level that the partisans want the “common” folk at, and that is to divide us and keep us occupied while getting us into the mess we now find ourselves in.

Debate is a healthy thing Nea. Deflecting and inserting other issues in response to ones post so you can “one-up” them is not constructive, and quite frankly, is just plain dishonest. You and I have had disagreements in the past. That’s ok. I do not harbor ill feelings toward you. I just ask that you be respectful and honest, as I am towards you.

Please take care, and have a great evening.

Very Respectfully,

Jon

Uh...what?

Someone commented that Florida Governor Rick Scott wanted to close a large number of state parks. You chimed in by saying that Scott wasn't planning to close them, and you provided links to several articles that stated as much. There were several comments from others that indicated no small amount of confusion on the issue, so I put in my own two cents as a way of clarifying things. There was nothing negative or nasty in my comment; I merely noted that the confusion doubtless arose because Scott's budget proposal includes no many for a land-buying program. (That wasn't my opinion, by the way; there are numerous news articles saying the same thing.) I also mentioned a well-publcized reason for Scott's bumpy transition from the corporate world to governance.

But then, you quoted me in your post #570, stating that I "deflected the issue to gain a win", that I "sank to the level that the partisans want", that I am trying to "divide and keep us occupied while getting us into the mess we now find ourselves in", that I was "plain dishonest", that I was "disrespectful".

Again: what?

At first I figured you'd responded to the wrong comment, but, no, I found it was clearly a response to me. So I read what I'd written, and re-read it, and re-read it again, and to be honest I'm still a bit confused. I defy you (or anyone else) to go back to my original comment and find any of the things of which you accused me. Unless a person is obsessively and blindly infatuated with Scott and his (so far) very unwelcome way of governing, it won't be found. You don't put yourself in that group do you? And if not, is it too much to hope for an apology from you?
Okay, the lightning show is cool, but, really, that's enough for now, thanks. So enough, it's on the porch...

03/09/2011 0450 am

Lacombe, St Tammany Parish.

Tornado, reported by law enforcement.


Slidell pd reports tornado crossed I-12 at Lacombe exit.
Debris on Interstate. Also trees down in Lacombe near
heart hospital on 434 blocking Highway.
One of the local PWS stations recording 4.2 inches per hour ?!?!
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/h dfForecast?query=70433

This one: http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDail yHistory.asp?ID=KLAMANDE7

Heck, yeah, it's raining, but that might be a little high.
;-)
But is likely better than 2 inches per hour.



(2.9 is the max by radar, currently...possibly undercounting by ~40%...4.9 inches, though? Hmm.)
Stay safe atmo, not looking forward to this one moving east.
Ga needs the rain badly, but not that badly.
Quoting RTLSNK:
Stay safe atmo, not looking forward to this one moving east.
Ga needs the rain badly, but not that badly.
Personally, coming out of the worst of it soon.

Others are hopefully aware of what's pending...but probably not.
This doesn't do it justice. The lightning was near and more than one per second.



(And a testament to my power company or incredible luck that I still have electricity)
finally, that weather station's plot is updated. 4.9 inches per hour not showing, but...still a sick rain rate.



Whacky.

Full ob:
632. DDR
Decent looking rain for New Orleans...
It remains dry here in Trinidad as the dry season peaks,with few scattered showers yesterday.
Quoting DDR:
Decent looking rain for New Orleans...
It remains dry here in Trinidad as the dry season peaks,with few scattered showers yesterday.
New Orleans' pumping system couldn't handle the amount of rain we just got in the short time period we got it in. They would have lost many autos and some houses to the street flooding...

But, yes, they are getting some good rains. And probably not quite the amount we just did. (For which many will be thankful.)
The aftermath in the works...and these were issued before this morning's rains.

The National Weather Service in New Orleans/Baton Rouge has issued a

* Flood Warning for
the tchefuncte river above US Highway 190 near Covington.
* From Wednesday morning to Saturday afternoon... or until the warning
is cancelled.
* At 6:00 PM Tuesday the stage was 13.5 feet.
* Minor flooding is forecast.
* Flood stage is 20.0 feet.
* Forecast... the river is expected to rise above flood stage by
late tomorrow morning and continue to rise to around 23.0 feet by
early Thursday morning. Stages could be much higher than forecast
based on the potential for very heavy rainfall over the next 18
hours.
* Impact... at 22.0 feet... tchefuncte Camp Grounds will be under a few
inches of water. The Goodbee commumunity is threatened with
flooding. Water will invade Camp tchefuncte's parking lot. Vehicles
must be removed to higher ground.



930 PM CST Tue Mar 8 2011

The National Weather Service in New Orleans/Baton Rouge has issued a

* Flood Warning for
the tchefuncte river near Folsom.
* From Wednesday afternoon to late Thursday night... or until the
warning is cancelled.
* At 5:30 PM Tuesday the stage was 7.3 feet.
* Minor flooding is forecast.
* Flood stage is 16.0 feet.
* Forecast... the river is expected to rise above flood stage by
tomorrow afternoon and continue to rise to around 16.5 feet by
Thursday morning. Stages could be much higher than forecast based
on the potential for very heavy rainfall over the next 18 hours.
* Impact... at 16.0 feet... areas of Spring Park and Albert Thompson
Road will be inundated. Homes will flood if the river rises higher.
Evacuation of those areas is recommended.




915 PM CST Tue Mar 8 2011

The National Weather Service in New Orleans/Baton Rouge has issued a

* Flood Warning for
the Bogue falaya river at Boston St in Covington.
* From late tonight to Friday evening... or until the warning is
cancelled.
* At 6:15 PM Tuesday the stage was 2.8 feet.
* Minor flooding is forecast.
* Flood stage is 6.0 feet.
* Forecast... the river is expected to rise above flood stage by early
tomorrow morning and continue to rise to around 9.5 feet by early
Thursday morning. Stages could be much higher than forecast based on
the potential for very heavy rainfall over the next 18 hours.
* Impact... at 9.0 feet... Bogue falaya River Park will be inundated.
Some classrooms at christ episcopal school grounds will flood.





915 PM CST Tue Mar 8 2011

The National Weather Service in New Orleans/Baton Rouge has issued a

* Flood Warning for
the Bogue falaya river at Camp Covington.
* From Wednesday evening to Friday morning... or until the warning is
cancelled.
* At 6:00 PM Tuesday the stage was 36.5 feet.
* Minor flooding is forecast.
* Flood stage is 45.0 feet.
* Forecast... the river is expected to rise above flood stage by
late tomorrow evening and continue to rise to around 47.0 feet by
early Thursday afternoon. Stages could be much higher than forecast
based on the potential for very heavy rainfall over the next 18 hours.
* Impact... at 45.0 feet... water will encroach residential property in
the vicinity of the gage. Residences on the East Bank near the
river will be threatened. Water will cover entrance driveways to
property on the East Bank.




901 PM CST Tue Mar 8 2011

The National Weather Service in New Orleans/Baton Rouge has issued a

* Flood Warning for
the Bogue Chitto river near Bush.
* From Wednesday evening to Saturday evening... or until the warning
is cancelled.
* At 8:15 PM Tuesday the stage was 7.5 feet.
* Minor flooding is forecast.
* Flood stage is 11.0 feet.
* Forecast... the river is expected to rise above flood stage by
tomorrow evening and continue to rise to around 12.0 feet by
by late tomorrow night. Stages could be much higher than forecast
based on the potential for very heavy rainfall over the next 18 hours.
* Impact... at 13.0 feet... homes in low lying areas on the downstream
side of Louisiana Highway 21 near the bridge will flood. The
access Road upstream of the bridge will remain inundated.





819 PM CST Tue Mar 8 2011

The Flood Warning continues for
the Pearl River near Pearl River.
* From late Thursday night until further notice... or until the
warning is cancelled.
* At 7:45 PM Tuesday the stage was 11.6 feet.
* Minor flooding is forecast.
* Flood stage is 14.0 feet.
* Forecast... the river is expected to rise above flood stage by early
Friday morning and continue to rise to around 16.0 feet by Saturday
afternoon. Stages could be much higher than forecast based on the
potential for very heavy rainfall over the next 18 hours.
* Impact... at 14.0 feet... secondary roads to the river and throughout
Honey Island Swamp are inundated. Property in the vicinity of the
gage is flooded threatening about 20 homes along the left bank.





819 PM CST Tue Mar 8 2011

The Flood Warning continues for
the Pearl River near Bogalusa.
* From late tonight until further notice... or until the warning is
cancelled.
* At 7:00 PM Tuesday the stage was 16.3 feet.
* Minor flooding is forecast.
* Flood stage is 18.0 feet.
* Forecast... the river is expected to rise above flood stage by late
tonight and continue to rise to around 20.5 feet by Sunday morning.
Stages could be much higher than forecast based on the potential
for very heavy rainfall over the next 18 hours.
* Impact... at 20.0 feet... Woodlands and crop acreage along the river
will be flooded. The Bogue Chitto wildlife management area will be
inundated with water in recreational camps and over access roads

atmo: Note that the bolded part is in all of them.
New LSR:

03/09/2011 0457 am

Lacombe, St Tammany Parish.

Tornado, reported by Fire Dept/Rescue.


Roof off house.

atmo: (Short and to the point, I suppose)
Among others...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN NEW ORLEANS HAS ISSUED A

* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
NORTHEASTERN ORLEANS PARISH IN SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA...
SOUTHEASTERN ST. TAMMANY PARISH IN SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA...
THIS INCLUDES THE CITIES OF...SLIDELL...EDEN ISLE...
HANCOCK COUNTY IN SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI...
THIS INCLUDES THE CITIES OF...WAVELAND...DIAMONDHEAD...
SOUTHWESTERN PEARL RIVER COUNTY IN SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI...

* UNTIL 730 AM CST

* AT 633 AM CST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS DETECTED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 10 MILES
SOUTHWEST OF LACOMBE...OR 11 MILES NORTHWEST OF EAST NEW ORLEANS...
MOVING NORTHEAST AT 45 MPH.

* OTHER LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO PEARL
RIVER...PEARLINGTON...STENNIS SPACE CENTER AND KILN
I can see why they called that one.

About 30 minutes ago. This is west of NOLA.

METEOROLOGIST REPORTS RAIN WRAPPED TORNADO NEAR KENNER
MOVING INTO LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN.
~15 miles to my N.

0520 AM TORNADO 10 SW BUSH ST. TAMMANY LA EMERGENCY MNGR

*** 1 INJ *** TREES DOWN AND HOUSE DAMAGE NORTH OF
WALDHEIM. TRAILER DESTROYED. 1 INJURED.
0925 PM FLASH FLOOD 4 NE GREENSBURG ST. HELENA LA LAW ENFORCEMENT

STATE TROOP L MANDEVILLE REPORTED SEVERAL WATER RESCUES
UNDERWAY WITH MANY ROADS IMPASSIBLE IN THE NORTHEAST
QUADRANT OF ST HELENA PARISH IN THE VICINITY OF BEAVER
CREEK. HIGHWAYS 441...440 AND 38 WERE REPORTED
IMPASSIBLE.
0630 AM TSTM WND GST KENNER M77 MPH JEFFERSON LA ASOS

A 77 MPH WIND GUST WAS MEASURED AT NEW ORLEANS
INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
.

(somebody wake up Patrap...surprised his weather radio didn't already. Could have lost power already, tho.)
KMSY (New Orleans International)

Hit the wrong key, need more coffee.
Quoting RTLSNK:
Hit the wrong key, need more coffee.
Here ya go.

0649 AM TSTM WND GST NEW ORLEANS M54 MPH ORLEANS LA ASOS

A THUNDERSTORM WIND GUST OF 54 MPH...OR 47 KNOTS...WAS
MEASURED AT NEW ORLEANS LAKEFRONT AIRPORT.
Quoting atmoaggie:
Okay, the lightning show is cool, but, really, that's enough for now, thanks. So enough, it's on the porch...


Geez, you guys just can't catch a break.

Way to keep us up to speed with all those storm reports atmo.
Quoting cat5hurricane:

Geez, you guys just can't catch a break.

Way to keep us up to speed with all those storm reports atmo.
We caught a break yesterday morning. And beads, and doubloons, and, well, everything. At the parade in honor of Grothar's friend, Argus.

Really, yeah, there are folks here that cannot get out and, possibly, have the nearby river in their yard or house right now. (No first hand info, just based on obs and past experience)
2 more severe wind reports from MS and AL. This map will get busier...

649. afj3
Quoting atmoaggie:
We caught a break yesterday morning. And beads, and doubloons, and, well, everything. At the parade in honor of Grothar's friend, Argus.

Really, yeah, there are folks here that cannot get out and, possibly, have the nearby river in their yard or house right now. (No first hand info, just based on obs and past experience)

LOL. Parade related stuff we can live with!

Well, I take your word to a pretty high regard nonetheless, since your the one in the trenches on the front lines with the experience and observation. The flash flood watches NWS issued yesterday were certainly warranted.
Quoting atmoaggie:
Here ya go.



Add three baskets of Beignets and that would do it! :)
Quoting atmoaggie:
One of the local PWS stations recording 4.2 inches per hour ?!?!
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/h dfForecast?query=70433

This one: http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDail yHistory.asp?ID=KLAMANDE7

Heck, yeah, it's raining, but that might be a little high.
;-)
Not sure how the rainfall rate kept changing and including higher values than anywhere else, but the end result of this ob site was a peak at 3.76 inches per hour.

Still invokes a "!?!?!", I think.

Not finding any others that go over 2.5 inches per hour...except this one.

NO FREAKING WAY!


Max of 8.73 inches per hour.
(Not believing that for one second.)
Quoting afj3:
Nice. That line approaching Baton Rouge is coming together and heading my way. WUnderful.
0712 AM TSTM WND DMG SLIDELL ST. TAMMANY LA EMERGENCY MNGR

REPORTS OF DAMAGE IN SLIDELL. TREES DOWN. ROOF DAMAGE AND
POSSIBLY STRUCTURAL DAMAGE SUBDIVISIONS OF LAKE VILLAGE
LAKE WASHINGTON. POWER OUTAGES IN CITY.

(and now, it's time to go to work. Have to make it to Slidell first, tho)
Good Morning...Been a while......Really bad situation on tap for the Northen Gulf States this am into the afternoon....That frontal line is not weakening any time soon so the Florida Panhandle and Southern Georgia and Alabama will be under the gun shortly.......Give your friends and relatives a heads up in those areas this morning.
KLAMANDE14 shows 3.06" per hour... so looks like a nasty cell moved through. But I agree.. anything over 3.5" is highly suspect (especially if you rule out a nutcase pouring a garden hose into the rain gauge)
Quoting RTLSNK:


Add three baskets of Beignets and that would do it! :)

mmmm... Beignets... yummm... (The Cafe Du Monde in the Quarters is the best, but the one on Veterans Memorial in Metairie is very good too)
658. Jax82
There are 2 torndao vortex signatures at the moment, yikes.

Quoting Jax82:
There are 2 torndao vortex signatures at the moment, yikes.


Yeah, the bottom end of that squall line is nasty. It is getting all kinds of bent up with bow echos and mesovortexes that there is bound to be some severe damage going on down there.

The whole line looks like a classic squall line / derecho. It is a bit earlier than usual in the year for such a well-formed line, but not by much. I just hope everyone impacted by it stays safe!
Complete Update





This weather is starting to scare me, it's really bad here in Saraland, right outside of Mobile,Al. It's black as a ace of spades and raining like he&&.

sheri
Muslim protests set to begin in Saudi Arabia...

Oil crisis looming
Quoting greentortuloni:
more ice loss in the news.
Thanks for the link, and good morning everyone. What was also very interesting was another article attached at the bottom of this article. Basically it was a survey of Adders, toads and amphibians in the UK. It stated the steady decline of all except a newt that loves acidic pools and thrives with acid rain.
Oil markets brace for Saudi 'rage' as global spare capacity wears thin...
Foreign minister warns against protests...


Ebadi says Arab-style revolt certain soon in Iran...

Kuwait Braces for Chaos...

Gadhafi Deploys Tanks, Hundreds of Troops in New Assaults...

...Denies talk he's looking for exit


Libyan tanks, planes bombard Zawiyah; rebels still hold 'Martyrs' Square'...

Libyan central bank chief goes missing...

Violence flares in Egypt, 13 killed...


Obama: 'More Money' Is Needed For Education Reform...

THE WORLD IS COMING UNDONE
SEVERE WEATHER STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MOBILE AL
848 AM CST WED MAR 9 2011

ALC003-097-091530-
/O.CON.KMOB.TO.W.0011.000000T0000Z-110309T1530Z/
BALDWIN AL-MOBILE AL-
848 AM CST WED MAR 9 2011

...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 930 AM CST FOR SOUTH
CENTRAL MOBILE AND CENTRAL BALDWIN COUNTIES...

AT 844 AM CST.... THIS TORNADO WAS NEAR THEODORE...MOVING EAST AT 50
MPH. A CITIZEN HAS NOW REPORTED A TORNADO ON THE GROUND NEAR THE DOG
TRACK WITH VISIBLE DEBRIS SWIRLING AROUND IT.

THE TORNADO WILL BE NEAR...
MONTROSE...FAIRHOPE...DAPHNE AND HOUSTONVILLE AROUND 900 AM CST...
BELFOREST AROUND 905 AM CST...
SILVERHILL AND CLAY CITY AROUND 910 AM CST...
ROBERTSDALE...ROSINTON AND LOXLEY AROUND 915 AM CST...

A TORNADO WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL NOON CST WEDNESDAY FOR
SOUTHWESTERN ALABAMA AND NORTHWEST FLORIDA AND SOUTHEAST MISSISSIPPI.
That Lacombe I-12 debris was about the equivalent of 2 shredded medium-sized pine trees.

And more:

0712 AM FLASH FLOOD SLIDELL 30.28N 89.78W
03/09/2011 ST. TAMMANY LA AMATEUR RADIO

STANDING WATER REPORTED ON I-10 AT IRISH BAYOU. ALSO 3 TO
4 INCHES OF WATER IN THE ROAD OLD TOWN SLIDELL AT CITY
HALL.

0630 AM FLASH FLOOD 2 E DESTREHAN 29.96N 90.34W
03/09/2011 ST. CHARLES LA EMERGENCY MNGR

MULTIPLE STREETS FLOODED. WATER IN 2 HOUSES.

0750 AM FLASH FLOOD METAIRIE 30.00N 90.18W
03/09/2011 JEFFERSON LA PUBLIC

WATER OVERFLOWING BANKS OF CANAL BETWEEN WEST NAPOLEON
AND SEVERN.

0750 AM FLASH FLOOD MADISONVILLE 30.40N 90.16W
03/09/2011 ST. TAMMANY LA AMATEUR RADIO

WATER OVER VISTA ROAD.

0750 AM TSTM WND DMG LONG BEACH 30.36N 89.17W
03/09/2011 HARRISON MS LAW ENFORCEMENT

DAMAGE IN LANDON LAKES SUBDIVISION NORTH OF LONG BEACH.
POSSIBLE TORNADO... ROOF OF SHED AND TREES DOWN.

0810 AM TSTM WND DMG BILOXI 30.42N 88.93W
03/09/2011 HARRISON MS LAW ENFORCEMENT

POSSIBLE TORNADO ON CEDAR LAKE ROAD NORTH OF I-10.
TRAILER PARK HAS DAMAGE INCLUDING TRAILERS TIPPED OVER.

0734 AM TSTM WND GST BELLE CHASSE 29.85N 90.00W
03/09/2011 M56.00 MPH PLAQUEMINES LA ASOS

KNBG - BELLE CHASE NAVAL AIR STATION - WIND GUST 49 KNOTS
OR 56 MPH.
Quoting atmoaggie:
That Lacombe I-12 debris was about the equivalent of 2 shredded medium-sized pine trees.

And more:

0712 AM FLASH FLOOD SLIDELL 30.28N 89.78W
03/09/2011 ST. TAMMANY LA AMATEUR RADIO

STANDING WATER REPORTED ON I-10 AT IRISH BAYOU. ALSO 3 TO
4 INCHES OF WATER IN THE ROAD OLD TOWN SLIDELL AT CITY
HALL.

0630 AM FLASH FLOOD 2 E DESTREHAN 29.96N 90.34W
03/09/2011 ST. CHARLES LA EMERGENCY MNGR

MULTIPLE STREETS FLOODED. WATER IN 2 HOUSES.

0750 AM FLASH FLOOD METAIRIE 30.00N 90.18W
03/09/2011 JEFFERSON LA PUBLIC

WATER OVERFLOWING BANKS OF CANAL BETWEEN WEST NAPOLEON
AND SEVERN.

0750 AM FLASH FLOOD MADISONVILLE 30.40N 90.16W
03/09/2011 ST. TAMMANY LA AMATEUR RADIO

WATER OVER VISTA ROAD.

0750 AM TSTM WND DMG LONG BEACH 30.36N 89.17W
03/09/2011 HARRISON MS LAW ENFORCEMENT

DAMAGE IN LANDON LAKES SUBDIVISION NORTH OF LONG BEACH.
POSSIBLE TORNADO... ROOF OF SHED AND TREES DOWN.

0810 AM TSTM WND DMG BILOXI 30.42N 88.93W
03/09/2011 HARRISON MS LAW ENFORCEMENT

POSSIBLE TORNADO ON CEDAR LAKE ROAD NORTH OF I-10.
TRAILER PARK HAS DAMAGE INCLUDING TRAILERS TIPPED OVER.

0734 AM TSTM WND GST BELLE CHASSE 29.85N 90.00W
03/09/2011 M56.00 MPH PLAQUEMINES LA ASOS

KNBG - BELLE CHASE NAVAL AIR STATION - WIND GUST 49 KNOTS
OR 56 MPH.

Busy morning for you guys alright.
Quoting jeffs713:
KLAMANDE14 shows 3.06" per hour... so looks like a nasty cell moved through. But I agree.. anything over 3.5" is highly suspect (especially if you rule out a nutcase pouring a garden hose into the rain gauge)
I dunno, now.

Reports on the radio of a NWS estimate of ~5 inches in 30 minutes for Jefferson Parish a while after that. And the radar reflectivities weren't quite as high as Mandeville's.

So, if the ob site was recording/reporting the perfect interval...maybe not so whacky.
Quoting Neapolitan:
NEW BLOG ENTRY

Thnx Neo
Morning Spathy~ Sorry it was I that fell out lastnight..

I've seen extra left at the end of the year. It's rare but not unheard of. I had wanted to touch on that point Jon brought up, he put it quite eloquently. There is some real messed up processes in the ways that the money actually moves through the govt that in turn cause a small degree in waste. NOAA can't change that, so docking them because of it is ridiculous. But that's not really the issue on the table & no excuse to cut out life & mammoth money saving investments in our country...especially when our war budget is totally out of hand.

Spathy you've avoided the white elephant in the room, while you try & justify taking a few hundred million from NOAA.. the military stands there eating $650 billion? More than all the other militaries of the world put together. & for what what? What happened to the people's cry to bring home the troops? Most of these military operations are helping the oil companies. You say we should suffer to balance the budget.. How about we stop subsidizing oil companies with billions of dollars & quit using the military to "stabilize nations" so we can get their oil for cheaper.. If we paid the true price of oil there would be no talk of a carbon tax & our technology in sustainable energy would move on.

This new move by the corporate funded (koch) agenda that govt & state workers are not honest but lazy, a crowd that is ripping off the taxpayer, like some sort of elite is bunk. These are people that made the decision to not become filthy rich & help others & this country. The corporate elite are getting you on the govt/state worker lynching bandwagon & entertaining you with Charlie Shean while they cut your vitals & keep their projects that they spent more in lobbying each year to obtain than NOAA has ever got in a year...

You know I love you too & enjoy debating our differences occasionally. But your math.. no one is going yeah Spathy is right..cause you not. I've tried to show you.. I see others getting it. I give up, but maintain my stance your wrong:)

Look around at the effects the NWS says this would have on them.. closing Weather Forecasting Offices on a 27 day rolling blackout schedule. Soundings, buoys, radars affected.. there is other areas.. closing your eyes & slashing at the none military budget isn't the way to fix this.
672:

Unfortunately with the present economic state of the US, programs are going to take a loss.

I agree with this proposal for reducing funding for NOAA.