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No Alberto, and the NASA/Dr. James Hansen affair

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 2:28 PM GMT on February 09, 2006

Watching for Alberto
There will be no Subtropical Storm Alberto forming from the large cold-cored low pressure system off of the coast of Africa today. There has been no increase in deep convection near the storm's center the past 24 hours, and the storm has stayed over chilly waters less than 20 degrees C. The Greek tropical cyclones of 2005 that formed in a location similar to that of today's storm--Delta, Epsilon, and Zeta--all had ocean temperatures of at least 22 C to work with. It appears that 20 C is just too cold to support a tropical or sub-tropical system in this region. Today's storm--which does have winds of 35 mph, just below tropical storm force--is forecast to remain over waters cooler than 20 C and weaken as it slides slowly southeastward towards the African coast over the next few days.


Figure 1. Visible satellite image from 1300 GMT February 9, 2006, shows no sign of increased convection associated with the large low pressure system off of the coast of Africa. Image credit: Naval Research Lab, Monterey.

More on the NASA/Dr. James Hansen affair
As I reported in a blog two weeks ago: NASA tries to silence its top climate researcher, political appointees at NASA and NOAA have recently been attempting to control the flow of information coming out of the agencies. There are two more New York Times stories that have come out on the affair. Yesterday's story reports on the resignation of George C. Deutsch, the young presidential appointee at NASA who told public affairs workers to limit reporters' access to Dr. James Hansen, NASA's top climate researcher. Apparently Mr. Deutsch had falsified his resume, claiming to have graduated from college, when transcripts revealed that was not the case. The second article, published February 4, reports that NASA's top administrator, Michael D. Griffin, issued a sharply worded statement calling for "scientific openness" throughout the agency. It sounds like for now, there will be less restriction on information coming out of NASA, which is a welcome change.

Jeff Masters

Climate Change Politics Climate Change Politics

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

First!!
Great news....don't want an Alberto yet...not ready.


newt3d...congrats!!! thought I was going to be first...
Looks to me like President Bush came down hard on someone. :) I'd hate to get that phone call. This is a positive development.
Dr. Masters is helping us open our eyes to the drastic truth about global warming. It is horrible to contemplate the extent to which the corporate military/industrial complex rules every aspect of American life. This latest intrigue at NASA, relating to the Deutsch/Hansen controversy is astounding. That a bureaucrat, and a throughly dishonest one can stand over and intimidate an accomplished NASA scientist...just read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/politics/08nasa.html?ex=1139547600&en=e94583c1964fdad7&ei=5070
its all smoke and mirrors....

trying to cover up the real truth about climate change...

we control the weather!
Hey, cyclonebuster...can we get a bunch of people together and protest outside the Capitol or the White House, with signs saying stuff like "NO MORE CAT 5s!" and "BUILD THE TUNNELS TO STOP THE FUNNELS!"...would be fun, eh???
While the NYT is definitely left-leaning and thus rampantly anti-Bush in it's reporting, I'm glad to see NASA is cleaning house and setting things straight. Openness is absolutely necessary for science to work at its best. That said, there is still no verifiable, objective evidence to support human-caused global warming.
TampaSteve.. yes, and if you applied a few months in advance and submitted your ideas for banners and signs you might even get a protest assembly permit in a cordoned back street somewhere.
It is based on sound principles and the physics are proof enough it will work

It may be based on real principles, ones that dont work for real life condiditons. Princples that are incredibly simplified and make may assumptions that also dont work for real life; in fact, those principles make almost as many assumptions as you make cyclonebuster. And as far as I'm concerned, that interloper guy showed that they physicis actually prove it wont work, so please drop it until you have more evidence, becuase your's is coonsiderables lacking. Here's the webpage that completely picks apart your idea.

Link
Anyones guess on the snow storm to hit the Great Lakes region this weekend. Calling for Lake Effect snow and the locals in South Bend are being very vague.
You say that everytime, yet everytime we tell you it takes more energy then your tunnels produce, such as a hurricane. Go ahead and bring up the Marathon and Charleston hump, but it doesnt matter, because those are different methods of upwelling then your tunnels becuase it doesnt lift the water 1000+ feet.

Now go ahead and say that "if it happens in nature then we can reproduce it" sure, if you want to build a huge ramp at the bottem of the ocean.

You see how I know what you're going to say before you say? When that happens it means you've made these points before and are trying to use them again, which is bad! Find some new evidence and rebutalls. Because I know that a professional in the field of engineering knows way more then you or I about anything involving physics. So stop trying to discredit him by putting words in his mouth! HE NEVER SAID UPWELLING CANT OCCUR, JUST THAT YOUR TUNNELS DONT PRODUCE ENOUGH ENERGY TO MOVE THE WATER AS FAR AS YOU WANT TO! STOP PUTTING WORDS IN THAT MAN MOUTH THAT WERE NEVER WRITTEN!
18. dcw
Cyclone, I honestly don't understand why you hang around.

Mu tunnels prevent people way too overzealous about their ideas.
Yup, that article says the ramps itself is over 1000ft, 1030 to be excact, but I was talking about the water not going 1000+ over the hump, but that the hump helps the water propel itself 1000+ ft from the top of the ramp, like a skater. He makes a parabolic leap from a ramp with the vertex of parabola the a as the maximum. I was saying that the force behind the water is not enough to propel it 1000+ above the highest point of the hump, nor the 1000's(depending on depth) of ft you are trying to raise water in you tubes.

Also, I dont think your charleston hump is a good comparison to your tunnels. After more extensive reading I realized that the Charleston hump deflects the water more then it then it causes it to rise. It doesn't cause upwelling by moving cold water to the surface as you propose with your tunnels, in reality it doesnt cause upwelling at all because it doesn't cause cool deep water to rise to the surface. It mixes the normally narrow gulf stream with the cooler water around it as the gulf stream more or less passes around the hump rather then exclusivly going over it. The hump deflects the gulf stream to East towards Europe rather then continuing up the coast. It hardly cools the gulf stream at all.
Cold water does not rise to the surface, it moves to the surface because it is being acted on by another force. That force most likely being the momentum of that volume of water that runs into a solid surface. The only possible way your tunnels are going to move water to the surface is if the the volume of water entering the mouth of your tunnel has significant force to push a small column of water out the topside of your tunnel. This is actually what makes RAM pumps work but its not a 1:1 ratio. I don't know if you had a tunnel that was a wide as the entire flow of a portion of the Gulf Stream if you would be able to lift enough water to the surface to do what you are proposing. Keep one other thing in mind that has never been mentioned here, if you are capturing a large volume of flow and moving it up, you are going to create a sink downstream of your intake. So as you dump cold water at the surface it is going to be pulled down unless you make your tunnels so long that you negate that effect. Everything that I have seen you put forth provides no support that your idea would work as you have described it. My recommendation would be to go back to your Physics textbooks (and maybe I am assuming too much there) and start with the simply concept of conservation of energy because at the moment everything you have put forth goes against that simple rule.
Cyclone - your tunnels are not a closed enviornment. No situation truly is, but a good deal of energy in your tunnels is lost by water pushing at the sides.

Nice SST map.
Assuming the water does rise, here's a diagram of what happens.

but your tunnels aren't using the force of the whole gulfstream lie these bumbs, which have the whole entire gulf stream working with them. You would have a fraction of the gulf stream working for you trying to push cold water over warm water. Maybe you could build the mouth of the tunnel miles wide to capture the whole gulf stream?
One possibility that might have merit would be to reverse the orientation of the tunnels, and try to drive the warm water down.
1:05 TWD...which makes no mention at all of the gale!

THE ATLANTIC OCEAN EAST OF 60W...
BROAD UPPER LEVEL ANTICYCLONIC FLOW IS EAST OF THE FLORIDA
TROUGH...STRETCHING FROM THE ATLANTIC WATERS EAST OF THE EASTERN
CARIBBEAN SEA BEYOND 30N45W. A DEEP LAYER TROUGH HAS ITS ORIGINS
FROM A LOW CENTER...ABOUT 200 NM NORTH OF THE MADEIRA ISLANDS
THROUGH 31N19W TO 14N28W ABOUT 200 NM WEST-SOUTHWEST OF THE CAPE
VERDE ISLANDS. A SURFACE COLD FRONT GOES FROM AN OCCLUDED FRONT
NORTH OF THE AREA THROUGH 31N14W TO 25N20W. ISOLATED MODERATE
SHOWERS WITHIN 60 TO 120 NM ON EITHER SIDE OF 23N24W 28N20W
BEYOND 31N18W. A SURFACE 1027 MB HIGH PRESSURE CENTER IS NEAR
26N48W. BROAD ANTICYCLONIC FLOW COVERS THE ATLANTIC OCEAN IN
BETWEEN THE EASTERN ATLANTIC SYSTEM AND THE FRONTS WEST OF 60W.
There would not be a loss of energy to the sides other then through friction, but I am not talking about fluid dynamics. The tunnels would contain the energy of the water entering. Here is a simple equation that uses over simplified numbers but demonstrates my point. Lets say you have capture a flow of 100 gallons of water that weights 10 lbs./gallon with a force of 1 ft lbs.. So in theory you would be able to raise 1 gallon of that water 1,000 ft if your tunnel narrowed so that the force was concentrated on that 1 gallon of water. So here is what you need to provide back to this group before you can expect anyone to take you seriously. 1st, what is the temperature,weight,speed and depth from which you are going to pull this water? So find a point in the Gulf Stream where this information is known. With that information you can at least begin to make an intelligent argument.
ForecasterColby, you may have just given me an idea of a way to make the tunnel concept work (thats scarry). Busters concept is too simple, but what if using a minimum of 4 tunnels you do this. The first tunnel takes fast moving surface water and moves it down, that water exits into the mouth of a larger tunnel that is headed up, at the top of that tunnel you have another tunnel headed down and then you do the same again heading up. I will call it the W tunnel and if you had enough in sequence you might realize enough accumalation of energy to move enough cool water to the surface to make this idea work in theory. I still think overall it is a bad idea and that taking this theory and putting it into practice is a poor use of resources as well as being morally wrong to attempt to mess with Mother Nature in this way. I will be interested to see the discussion that comes from this.
Hey guys:
If you build your tunnels, and I build my earthquake machine (actually Nikola Tesla invented it) we can cool the oceans and straighten all the earth's tectonic plates!
My project might cause a little initial carnage, but we can clean all that up.
Wouldn't pushing warm water down a tunnel take just as much energy as pushing cold water up a tunnel?

(I can't believe I'm getting involved in this discussion...)
Why don't we cause a Carbon Cascade Failure while we are at it and that will neutralize oil so that it can not be turned into gasoline. Then we will have really solved global warming.
The W tunnel ~ would that be drawing warm surface water & moving it back to the surface? or is those tunnel connection kinda open?

To get the stats for colby's formulas excellent page~ SST, current magnitudes through the different layers( figured u'd use 0m & 100m). Salinity ( to help with weight) & I've heard nothing about ocean hieght (forecast these too)adjustment since they are anchored.

Looks pointless to try the yukatan since in winter from 100m you'd pull 26.5C water to surface. Now off Miami right now it's like 23C at 100 & 200m deep, the surface is near 26 ~ the current at 200 m is easily 1 m/s. surface current is 1.3- 1.4 m/s. does the difference in currents help or hurt the theory? & notice they change dramatically everyday. I'd like to see it worked out & compared to the 72 hr forecast stats too, since the forecast is much more "colorful" for that day.
JeffB~ i can't either. Maybe if we make it work or totally disprove it the tunnel talk will cease...lol
Thats what I am hoping. At this rate the tunnel idea will be in the next Super Bowl Energizer Bunny commercial because it just keeps going and going and going ..............................................................................................................................................................................
those same forecasts in 3-D might help further with the accuracy & placement.
How much water volume could a tunnel displace? Sounds like the equivalent of sinking a straw in a hundred acre lake. Who can talk volumes and ratios here? I'm sure cyclone's got it figured out! Let's crunch some number!!
LOL I coudn't resist.........
BUILD THE TUNNELS TO STOP THE FUNNELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, that was a good one Myles!!!!!
The W tunnel would draw warm water down and and would help to pick up some cool water and move it up. The tunnel heading down would be larger at top, narrow to a point say 2/3rds its lenght and then widen about 3/4ths its original width. It would open up at the mouth of an upward tunnel that was twice its width pulling in both the warmer water coming down plus the flow of cooler water at that depth. The upward tunnel would narrow its full length and empty out at a point just below the surface in front of another downward tunnel, the same design as the previous, the next upward tunnel would be of the same design as the previous upward tunnel as well. So there would be 2 distinct tunnel designs then that would just repeat in sets of 4. Yea, don't know how it happened but I feel like I have gotten sucked into a tunnel.
Cyclonebuster = Dr. Evil

Hey, think we have the plot for Austin Powers IV.

Unless the world pays him a ransom of ONE MILLION DOLLARS we will all be sucked into his "Tunnels" and forced to argue this point until our brains implode from the suction created by them.
Wait a minute, isn't building the tunnels to stop the tunnels like using an Easy Button to find an Easy Button. It might cause a failure of the space time continuum, oh well, whats the worst that can happen.
Unfortunelty, globalize, cyclone doesnt have any numbers crunched, and if he does he hasen't shown us any; just unverifiable numbers that he pulled out of thin air. However, I would say your straw in a lake comparision is accurate, but maybe a stick lol :)

However, he does propose putting many so thats not really the question. What are is do the even work, and as much as cyclone has said they will, I've seen far more evidence to support that they wont. Also, even if they do work, what kind of impact will they have on the environment besides weaking hurricanes. Weaking hurrianes is even in question because there no telling how much a storm will weaken since they all have different circumstances to their environment. Plus a fast moving storm wont weaken much at all since it doesnt stay over the cool water very long.

In conclusion there are more answers then questions. For a good proposal that will convince people of your idea you need HARD NUMBERS that show a good estimation of what will happen. And not just for eletricity generation or speed, but things like the pressure entering the tunnel, pressure exiting the tunnel, pressure inside the tunnel, energy lost due to friction in the tunnel, cost to build them, cost to maintain them(they will need maintaince, there in ficken salt water). And those are just to start, there are many more.

You need to show the forumlas you are using, what numbers you plugged into the formulas to get your answer, and what assumptions you made.
ROLFLMAO!!! I meant theres more questions then answers not more answers then questions. LOL...damn being in a rush. But seriously, a lot more thought and preperation needs to go into the idea.
> TampaSteve
I'd hardly call the Gray Old Lady, the NYT, to be "left-leaning". The problem with the Bush Administration is that it doesn't like criticism. In fact, this whole mindset has infected the GOP to the point that a GOP congressman or senator who questions the Administration or any of the party's hard-right platforms is ostracized. Indeed the next time such an official comes up for re-election the RNC will run an obedient candidate against such an infidel & throw big bucks into the local election to see that he/she is defeated. Character assasination & outright lies are fair game to the GOP of today. It's not surprising that NASA is attempting to censor it's own scientists when they make statements that conflict with an Administration position. It wasn't always this way but now the GOP has been be-smudged by this mind-set & the people now in control & will quite possibly lead to the party's demise in the near future.
More cyclone...
Link
I am confused!!!

is stormchaser77 and cyclonebuster the same person!

Somebody help me out here?
Here was an interesting thing on Rita being "turned" by the govt. Link
If those actually did appear, it would be a bug. Even if the millitary did have some sort of weather control, there's no way they'd leave such an obvious trace.

Cyclone, the tunnels are a fantastic idea, but do not work in practise. Please stop claiming they are the solution to everything, since many people with a good deal more experience in the field then you have concluded they are not. The waters simply would not mix, no matter how hard you tried. If they did, the warm water would settle on top anyway.
I'm guessing that those are thunderstorms, maybe reforming near the same place because of upper-level conditions.
those tunnels could have gotten that guy fired.
Looks to me that the thunderstorms were firing up in the second wind maximum. If it would have continued over water for a longer period I'm sure one would have fired up and persisted, causing the start of an ERC.

As far as the track of the storm, it seems to me that Rita followed a pretty straight track during the radar loop they show. Didnt show much turn at all, if any. I dont think anybody 'turned' this storm, rather a it took a couse that was slightly north of due west which changed the track dramaticly over 800 miles.
Dr. Masters,

It is quite pathetic to see you quote very liberal news sources in an apparent attempt to get so many of these impressionable bloggers on here to believe what they read in your blogs, which have consistently been flawed with errors that I have let go uncorrected, because it made little difference to me out of respect for you and your site.

However, I have a change of mind since you have recently chosen to use your excellent "weather" website as a politiocal forum to make completely unsubstantiated claims relying solely on VERY LIBERAL sources.

It is a shame that so many people blindly admire those like yourself who choose to make unsubstantiated claims that amount to little more than personaL attacks on those you don't like, such as the Bush administration. I am all for free speech, but not for defaming anothers character without you knowing PERSONALLY if it's true, which isn't the case here nor was it in your previous blog on the subject.

If a more conservative source like the Weekly standard had reported something about the Clinton adminstration that was just as unsubstantiated, you would most likely be quick to point out the Conservative leanings of that source and question the veracity of that article.


TO EVERYONE ELSE,

Dr. Masters is spouting unsubstantiated propaganda once again to support his own personal views as in his attempts to PROVE human induced global warming that cannot ever be proven no matter how He and the rest of you who accept this guess and try to suggest otherwise.

Simple fact, no one knows how warm the Earth's temperatures would've been had there been no greenhouse gas emissions. Therefore, how can ANYONE say how much if any temperature difference would've occured without that effect.

Simply put, can anyone PROVE that greenhouse gas emissions are DIRECTLY responsible for the increased temperatures and that it isn't the DIRECT result of Natural climate variability. Simple answer, no one can prove either case regardles of how many model runs, studies, or the opinions of those in the field who wish to suggest this for THEIR OWN POLITICAL AGENDA like Dr. Masters, James Hansen, and the vast majority of liberal scientists.

Ever notice that it is all the Liberals on here who subscribe to human induced global warming and the more conservative leaning like myself(proudly I may add)are more objective and careful not to blatantly say our view is a fact. It is important to note that I have no ties to oil and big business as those like Dr. Masters tries to suggest of those who have a dissenting opinion of his view on global warming about the DIRECT CAUSE.

Let me be clear, I am not a huge fan of George Bush and I disagree with some of his policies as should be the case with any objective person. However, I have never looked at the debate over global warming as a political issue. Unfortunately, this is the ONLY way those who have a liberal persuasion can ever win this debate and get their way, because it can never be proven by science alone.

I am also in favor of getting away from our major dependence on oil and encourage the idea of finding alternative sources of energy, but not because I believe greenhouse gas emissions are the DIRECT result of global warming, but for other more serious reasons as noted in my posts in Fshheads blog.

Let me be crystal clear, I am not saying human activities have had ZERO effect on climate change(which is also unprovable)but that any effect if at all has and will continue to be minimal. The simple fact is that no one can ever prove me wrong in my BELIEF(which is all of our individual opinions amount to)just as I can't prove that it hasn't had more of an effect than I personally believe.

This is the reason it is far less about science and more a persons choice of belief as are many polorizing political issues like Abortion, gay marriage, taxes, and affirmative action to name just a few.

I for one am disappointed that those like Dr. Masters would use his excellent weather site and manipulate his blogs in an apparent attempt to score political points for his liberal views. Honestly, I don't see a problem with him sharing his personal views, but he crosses a line when he chooses to spread unsubstantiated information from sources that have their own political leanings. Since when has the news media been the source of all truth?

This is yet anoher reason why I have lost so much respect for those like Dr. Masters, who chooses to engage in the politics of smear tactics when he peronally has no proof to back his own claims.

Please notice how I ALWAYS give my opinions as stating that they are my own personal belief and/or my best educated guess. Now, please reread this blog and the previous one about James Hansen by Dr. Masters and you will see that he doesn't say it is possible or that he personally believes but rather just adds his opinions as if they are factual statements in response to his use of unsubstantiated liberal sources.

Naturally, I have no dillusions that I will change even one mind with this post, but I at least felt compelled to add a semblance of common sense and fairness to a debate that has become one that attacks those with an opposing view personally(just watch the posts that follow this one in response).

This is the reason I have chosen NOT to post in this distorted blog for some time, and why I will seldom if ever do so again. I for one care more about not accusing others of something that would be sen as negative toward them personally, when I don't have undeniable evidence to support my claims. I guess that may put me in the minority, but since when has any Truth been defined as a majority opinion.

Simply put, Truth is and will always stand alone as incorruptiable regardless of ones personal opinion of it. I am not saying I know the Truth about either of these two issuses, but am simply stating I am not pretending as if I do, unlike too many others who refer to their favorite unproven article of the day to try and suggest it is the reality, rather than just their own personal opinion. That being said, this entire post is my own personal opinion and should not be characterized as being any more or less than that reality.

Thanks,
Tony


Chaser~ i'm not sure where your getting this is all about Master's shoving human induced global warming into our heads. it's about a 24 year old, almost journalism grad, modifing & censoring scientific info that americians pay to generate. I for one still haven't seen a link to what this kid didn't want released. NASA's sick of being sensored. NASA announced that. Conservatives don't care to make there pres look bad & vice versa. If you'd read all of Master's blogs he lies more in the middle & is tired of the 2 party system. It's a free country, you can read & believe what you want, but in my opinion it's getting rude to attack Masters every time you show up on his blog.
Cyclone buster, her pouring the cold water into the tub would be the equivlent of pouring trillions of gallons of water into the ocean. How big do you want to make these tunnels? And out of what material? For the size they would have to be, they would surely be less boyant than the water thus making them sink. Or, would you want giant floatation devises the size of alabama on top of the tunnels to keep them afloat? Somewhat similar to the ones that keep a baby floating in a pool that you can buy at Toys-R-Us.

Giants in 06
Chaser, I too think you might be taking too hard a line on this. I am a registered Kentucky Democrat my voting record goes like this. I liked Reagan, voted for Bush Senior 1988, Clinton 1992 & 96, Al Gore 2000 and G.W. Bush 2004. I tend to consider myself a moderate and think that both parties tend to be controled too much by their extreme wings but this is not one of those cases where I think on either side they went total overboard. I think this guy was fired for lieing and I don't think that the NYT tried to make more of this then there was because they knew there really wasn't that much here to work with. I don't feel that Dr. Masters really deserved the lenghty lashing that you gave him, but that is just MHO.
Chaser, good to see ya bud. I want to ask you though, what is the downside of cutting back our emmisions, and what are the possible positives? And what are the downsides of continuing our fossil fuel emmisions at an exponential rate like we are, and what are the positives?
Hey Skepony,

I am sharing my personal view not attackng him unlike his blatant recirculation of unsubstantiated information that is very defaming to people for which he has NO PERSONAL knowledge and is simply relying on the veracity of a VERY LIBERAL news source.

Please tell me how this is appropriate which is the gest of my post which you obviously overlooked.

"A public affairs official at NASA said that government scientists were free to discuss scientific issues, but that policy statements should be left to policy makers and appointed spokesmen. Since Dr. Hansens December 6 talk, NASA has rejected several media requests to interview him, including one by National Public Radio (NPR). According to Leslie McCarthy, a public affairs officer responsible for the NASA Goddard Institute, a NASA public affairs official appointed by the White House, George Deutsch, rejected the NPR interview request. He called NPR the most liberal media outlet in the country, and that his job was to make the president look good. Deutsch denied making the statements. McCarthy disagrees, saying she has no reason to lie.

THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW WHICH IS LYING AND IS IT NOT POSSIBLE THAT IT WASN' MR. DEUTSCH?

If so, how can anyone support the defamation of anothers character when there is no PROOF to substantiate such a claim.

"The effort to control information coming out of NASA echoes similar directives issued last Fall in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, when on September 29, a memo aimed all National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration employees (including those in the National Weather Service) ordered them not to speak to the national media unless the interview request was first approved by public affairs personnel. I talked to a contact at NWS who confirmed that the memo was indeed sent out, and was likely done in response to the political fallout from the Katrina disaster."

"Both NASA and NOAA have emphasized that the rules preventing scientists from speaking freely to the media had always been in place, but that the rules were being enforced more rigorously now. I say the new enforced restrictions are ridiculous. Our scientists have never needed these restrictions in the past. Our tax-payer salaried scientists should be free to speak out on more than just their scientific findings without the chilling oversight of politically-appointed officials concerned with making the president look good.

Here, Dr. Masters is stating as FACT that Mr. Deutsch did do and say what he denies. That is WRONG in my humble opinion since Dr. Masters has no personal knowledge of the alledged conversation and it very well may not have occurred.


"Climate change is of critical importance to all of us, and we should hear the opinions of those scientists who understand the issue the best."

Jeff Masters



Once again, a manipulation of FACTS which may have been unintentional naturally. Dr. Masters says we should hear the opinions of those who understand the issue best(notice how that person is supportive of his belief). There's no way anyone can say that Mr. Hansen understands it best. He could very well be wrong, and Dr. Masters did not say, in my opinion, Mr. Hansen is one of the best in the field, but allows for the assumption that he is.

If he's wrong about the DIRECT cause of global warming(which is certainly possible)then he wouldn't be one of the best if he is indeed wrong!


Heres Dr. Masters next blog:

"More on the NASA/Dr. James Hansen affair:"

"As I reported in a blog two weeks ago: NASA tries to silence its top climate researcher, political appointees at NASA and NOAA have recently been attempting to control the flow of information coming out of the agencies. There are two more New York Times stories that have come out on the affair."


Look again, Dr. Masters is once again stating these stories from the VERY LIBERAL New York Times as FACTS! He doesn't say it is POSSIBLE or that it is alledged that it MAY be occurring. No, he states it as if it's an undeniable FACT!


"Yesterday's story reports on the resignation of George C. Deutsch, the young presidential appointee at NASA who told public affairs workers to limit reporters' access to Dr. James Hansen, NASA's top climate researcher."


Once again, He is stating the same aforementioned assumptions that are debatable and certainly not proven to be FACTS!

"Apparently Mr. Deutsch had falsified his resume, claiming to have graduated from college, when transcripts revealed that was not the case. The second article, published February 4, reports that NASA's top administrator, Michael D. Griffin, issued a sharply worded statement calling for "scientific openness" throughout the agency. It sounds like for now, there will be less restriction on information coming out of NASA, which is a welcome change."

Jeff Masters



This is a blantant attempt by Dr. Masters to substantiate the other New York Times stories that could be inaccurate and by discrediting Mr. Deutsch, they both try to prove that he lied and did say what he denies having never done nor said. Most importantly, neither DR. Masters nor the N.Y. Times can prove he what they are claiming!

Therefore, I for one think it is WRONG to defame a person who could very well be innocent as he himself says is the case.

This is the reason I wrote the previous post. If you believe Dr. Masters is a moderate, that's your right, but it seems pretty obvious to me that he is very liberal and the sources that he repeatedly cites are certainly liberal.

Even if you don't agree with my views, I hope this gives you a better understanding of my intentions which aren't meant to attack him personally as you inaccurately suggested.

Thanks,
Tony

Hey chaser!!..I thought you were leaving this website!!..Run along now!!..LOL..
weatherguy03 watch it do not tell him that
Chaser, please go read my post in your previous blog. What is obvious to you is not necessarily fact as you would have it believed just because you do so. Not an attack here, just feel you have crossed the line of decency and respect, no matter the spin you put on it.
Honestly, if this was my website, and I was Dr. Masters, I would throw you right off of it. He is a very kind man for letting you stay here. Have some respect chaser!!!
Hey Bob,

you are a perfect example of what I am talking about!

You know that you are not in my league as a respectful person nor as a meteorologist.:)

You are wrong about Dr. Masters owning the site, its all of us paying that keeps it going like it has. I have a right to say what I believe as you say he does. Sorry, Code, I am not spinning anything, stating my beliefs, sorry you see it differently.

Have fun saying what you want, I'm done wasting my time with immature people like yourself Bob and those who read into my posts something that I don't mean, Code.:)

This is my last post, have fun Bob trying to be a decent forecaster.:)

Thanks,
Tony


Listen, I am only going to say this once. If it wasnt for Dr. Masters, none of us would be able to have this great WU blogs to use as freely as we do. You wouldnt be able to promote yourself chaser and your weather videos, or to teach people on your blogs. None of this would be possible!!! To disrespect the person who gave you all of this is just terrible. And I think this community will be better off without you!!
cool it and be nic
Chaser, sorry that you feel I am immature. I at least have the knowledge to respect other opinions than my own. This has included yours many times. Your last statement is obvious to me that you do not do the same. Or are your other posts stating otherwise a fallacy? Not interested in a debate or fight with you. I do respect your far greater knowledge on weather than a lot of others here, and your compassion for others in need. I just think that you really believe it is your way or the highway...and I am ready for the road. Sorry it has come to the point that you cannot enjoy all here for what it and they are. Good luck with your family, housing, and new website and any future endeavors you may have. I really can't see you leaving here though. You have cried wolf many times before.

Sorry to be off topic to all you other bloggers, this has gone on long before you even knew there was a wundergound though...
Boy oh boy, am I glad I haven't visited in a few hours.
Hey Code,

I wasn't calling you,"immature", that was directed to BOB.

I was saying you were misrespresenting my comments by suggesting they have a different meaning as in I am spinning them.

Yoiu once again misinterpreted them...which is why I referenced you...please reread my previous post from the correct perspective.
Cyclonebuster,

Do you have a way to test your hypothesis? I am trying to look at this objectively. You have an idea. It may seem ridculous the rest of us. Until experiments prove this idea right or wrong, I have to say I am neither for or against the idea. Once experiments are done, are you willing to accept the results if you are proven wrong? If you are right, then you have succeeded.

Until I see results of experiments concerning tunnels, I have no plans to mention the subject.

Also, those who choose to drop the subject will stop adding fuel to the fire and it will die until we see results from experiments. I do have my opinions about the topic. For now, they will not appear on this blog.
Bob,

YOu have a right to your opinion but you are the last person I'd look to for what to consider a proper way to treat another!
Goodbye Chaser!!
Code,
My comment responding to your post to me...

"and those who read into my posts something that I don't mean, Code.:)"

you did the samething again.:)

Thanks,
Tony


Goodbye Bobby:)
play nic you all and hurricanechaser what not start a big lol and hurricanechaser come on by my blog and see what i got and play nic all
Does anyone have more info on that low near Africa? Last I read, it wasn't going to develop into Alberto. .....It's finally starting to feel a little like winter. Temps in the low 20's here in SC.
"Honestly, if this was my website, and I was Dr. Masters, I would throw you right off of it. He is a very kind man for letting you stay here. Have some respect chaser!!!"

If he kicked Chaser out, would that not be the exact same thing you're accusing Bush of?
Cyclonebuster,

How do you plan to test your idea?
Okay Tony, just hard not too. I am sure that most would agree with me though. Glad to see it clarified by you. Have a good one and let us know of your own website. I feel sure that you will have some followers there.
wow look at what we got here

Chaser, calm down. If you don't like it, leave. I personally feel that Dr. Masters is taking an overly political view on this. I ignore any political points he makes and focus on his excellent weather information, and leave it at that.

On the E Atl storm - goodbye:

Tropical Weather Discussion
Amateur Hurricane Center
www.theahc.webhop.net
Tropical Weather Discussion - 11:00PM February 10, 2006

Invest AHC1 has lost deep convection, and is beginning to weaken. It is no longer a significant threat for development.
wow guys i think he should kick all of you guys off for arguing about a persons one little opinion suck childish acting (:
Funny Colby. Don't forget that those of us here long term know that you are dcw who tried to cause nothing but trouble last year.
97. Inyo
hurricanechaser, this is jeff master's personal blog! he should be able to say whatever he wants! now if he is putting 'bush sucks' in NWS forecast discussions, yes this is out of line, but it is pathetic (and typical republican) to try to claim that it is somehow immoral to voice your opinions on your OWN BLOG! If his opinions argue, either offer rational debate (not telling him he doesnt have the 'right' to post in his blog) or leave!
hey theboldman yes we do look what going on in her and it is not hurricane year 2006 yet and i got a ? for you
right code
any one like to start up a blog for this so it can stay in there?
chaser if you dont have something not nice to say dont say it at all ok

theboldman i like to talk to you e mail me
i know what your going to ask ok david

you are unbanned from my blog now cyclone has been tlaking to me about all of it and he told me you would stop so you are free to post in my blog again
105. haydn
KRWZ,

I've thought about it. Dont' intend to debate...just desire to provide a place for discussion....we need to get back to weather stuff...nice comments...encouraging and not tearing down
"Funny Colby. Don't forget that those of us here long term know that you are dcw who tried to cause nothing but trouble last year."

That's true, I am. Your point?
HurricaneChaser, c'mon get a grip and apologize. Your original 12:40 am GMT post was intolerably full of ego, rhetoric and politics and notably short on science and reasonable discussion. It was also a monologue.

If you haven't noticed, there's no one else posting huge monologues on here. We discuss the ISSUES like mature adults, and give others a chance to debate the points we're making. That is what makes this blog so valuable. We challenge others, are challenged by them, and we all learn in the process. There is little learning to be had from that original post of yours, and the attack on Dr. Masters is inexcusable.
Snowboy, the attack (while in my opinion overly venomous) was perfectly warranted - Dr. Masters is expressing political opinions as fact.
109. code1
None, just amazing to see a little boy change identities as he sees fit. Don't get me wrong here, a very intelligent little boy. Wish I had your weather related knowledge, and wish you had my mature outlook on life, so as not to try to be who you aren't and cause trouble.
In light of the chaos around here, I'm implenting new argument policy on my board:

If you flame, you will be warned once. Next time, you will be blocked from posting for one week, and the third time you are banned.

Support your points - an unsubstantiated post will be deleted on sight.

Keep it intelligent. Don't say 'vote republican because Kerry looks like an elephant' or 'vote democrat because Bush is evil and lying'. Make points, back them up, and let others decide what to do with them.

If something is not reasonably proven (e.g., that wind shear weakens a hurricane is well established - but that the government is modifying them is not) than please make sure that it is noted as such.

If responding to someone else's points, split up the quote and address each point individually.

ALL CAPS POSTS WILL BE DELETED.
I'm curious, code, what trouble am I causing? It's been many months since the trouble you're referring to, and at 15 a few months makes a big difference.
I can't possibly see anything in Dr. Masters' post that could anger anybody. Anybody who does not want information from NASA being more freely available must be in cahoots with bush (note the lowercase 'b') and his crazy jesters.
can ever one get a grip can we play nic
And, for what it's worth, I am a moderate leaning RIGHT.
115. haydn
I second that krwz.
ForecasterColby, Dr. Masters is not taking an overly political view on this. The strength of the field of science is that we aim to allow all voices to be heard, with the most persuasive arguments supported by the strongest facts and analysis carrying the day.

I challenge all of you scientists and budding scientists, to ALWAYS stand on the side of freedom of scientific discourse regardless of the politics of the day.
Tornado, you're taking this a bit far. No data was blocked, he was simply told to stop presenting his opinion as fact. The policies were in place, he disobeyed them. He was then fired. If you went dead-on against the policies at your workplace, and you were fired, would you blame the President?
I would consider myself a Conservative, rather than a Republican. I am royally pissed off at both parties, and the only reason I'll likely vote in '08 is to keep Mrs. Clinton out of the white house.
can ever one get a grip
I 3rd that KWRZ, and since Chaser seems to have fled maybe we can all setlle down and get back to the weather.
Indeed, KRWZ.
c'mon Colby, let's stick to science if we could?
123. haydn
So....odds of Alberto before June 1
if any one like i can start up a new blog and it can all start going in there and not dr jeff blog
Chaser~ for the this is not fact but an opinion rant for me. You had the last sentence in bold, that Masters was stating it as fact. Lets put it in context & bold the part that says, what follows is my opinion.

"I say the new enforced restrictions are ridiculous. Our scientists have never needed these restrictions in the past. Our tax-payer salaried scientists should be free to speak out on more than just their scientific findings without the chilling oversight of politically-appointed officials concerned with making the president look good.

126. code1
Hi Ty! Long time, no see my friend.
Colby, no trouble now. Just a warning to the newbies when the season starts up. They only have to read the old blogs to see for themselves. Glad to see at 15 you feel you have grown up. Hope so. Now I am just curious, why go back and forth between handles? Mature? I don't think so.
You know we will all be here when cane season starts again. Are you p*ssing on the ground for your territory? Won't work, we were here before you. If you want to be a good member of this great site, remember that and you won't be spammed as you were last year so many times. You have a lot of knowledge that we can all use and learn from if you would just use it in a mature manner. :)
127. haydn
I think we would be followed.
NASA is a public agency paid for in large part by the taxpayers of the United States. Therefore, if a scientist has an opinion on Global Warming, or any other non-interagency operational topic that he/she would like to release to the public, they should be able to share that, just as the NWS should be able to share information and express views on weather events with the national media. Otherwise, where are the taxpayers benefiting from there tax payments?
Tornado, I will message you with this. Close the discussion now, this is not the place.
Hi code!
The only reason you see me switching back and forth between names is that one computer is my dad's - dcw is his handle, this is mine. I use this one exclusively unless I happen to be on that computer, which remembers his login info.
133. code1
And again Colby, you are not the moderator. Go to your own blog for that privilege. Leave Ty and the others alone.

haydn, I pray to the powers that be that we don't see Alberto before June 1. Where are you located BTW?
OK mom, I'll be sure to listen to you when the pigs start flying!

I'm only bit sorry that my prolonged sickness frustration is coming out in this post, but since when is this YOUR blog Colby? This doesn't say "ForcasterColby's Wunderblog"! IT SAYS 'DR MASTERS' WUNDERBLOG." WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH MY VIEW OR NOT, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT SAY AS LONG AS IT IS WITHIN PROPER, DECENT CONSTRAINTS!!!

GET OVER YOURSELF!!!!
all stop it
can ever one get a grip
"OK mom, I'll be sure to listen to you when the pigs start flying!

I'm only bit sorry that my prolonged sickness frustration is coming out in this post, but since when is this YOUR blog Colby? This doesn't say "ForcasterColby's Wunderblog"! IT SAYS 'DR MASTERS' WUNDERBLOG." WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH MY VIEW OR NOT, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT SAY AS LONG AS IT IS WITHIN PROPER, DECENT CONSTRAINTS!!!

GET OVER YOURSELF!!!!"

First, because I simply cannot resist saying it - and you call me immature.

Second, I would simply like to turn this blog back towards the main topic of this website - weather. I've messaged you a response, and I would be happy to continue the discussion, but I'd rather not spam the comments with flames doing it.
139. haydn
Code1,

Is that BTW question directed to me? What do you mean by BTW? If that question is not directed to me, then you have succeeded in confusing me?
140. code1
Must be convenient for you to run back and forth to different rooms then as evidenced by tonights and other nights posts from both handles. hmmmmmm Don't play in the big league if you can't follow through little man. I know when I am at a different computer, all I have to do is type in my email address and password to get on.
*resists the need to roll eyes*

Okay, everyone LOOK!

I am dcw.
I am dcw.
I am dcw.
I am dcw.
I am dcw.
I am dcw.


Any doubt left in anyones mind that ForecasterColby and dcw are the same person? Good lord...
142. code1
Sorry haydn. Yes, I meant where are you located? We Floridians are in fear of when Alberto and the rest of his brothers and sisters will arrive.
I'm more concerned about what the doctor is going to tell me about the results of the battery of tests that I had taken yesterday than of what anyone, ESPECIALLY YOU COLBY, has to think of me.
144. haydn
Code1,

Near Augusta, GA in SC.
"I'm more concerned about what the doctor is going to tell me about the results of the battery of tests that I had taken yesterday than of what anyone, ESPECIALLY YOU COLBY, has to think of me."

Well, that explains a lot. I hope nothing's wrong, you contribute a good deal of intelligence to this group.
I'm sorry Colby for getting into this. I am just a basketcase lately, and, as you can tell, just about anything can set me off. Thanks for the well wishes!
I can tell. Anything you want to elaborate on?
ok all whats all move this over to my blog that i start up for this
149. code1
Colby/dcw, got your mail and replied. Thanks, and I hope it helps you.
150. haydn
Code1,

Are you prepared for 2006? What do you think of dome houses? I think they are stronger than box ones. I wonder why people build the same thing back when there are better hurricane resistant designs out there. Have you seen the stuff in the news about Dome of a Home that survived Ivan? It was monolithic. ....no catastrophic damage
Tony,

How do you get this out of my post?

Posted By: tornadoty at 3:49 AM GMT on February 10, 2006.

I can't possibly see anything in Dr. Masters' post that could anger anybody. Anybody who does not want information from NASA being more freely available must be in cahoots with bush (note the lowercase 'b') and his crazy jesters.

Did I say I didn't want information coming out of NASA?

My concern was the political attacks on Bush by claiming as truth the defaming comments about another(Mr. Deutsch)repeatedly as facts in both blogs was and is wrong.

So, Tony, if you were Mr. Deutsch and you DIDN'T make the comments Dr. Masters keeps reposting in his blogs from the N.Y. Times, would you consider them a personal attack?

I know I would and that's my issue with Dr. Masters.

I will correct myself and say that I did go overboard and the comment about being "consistently wrong" in his blogs was unwarrented. The rest I stand by as justified by the record. Reread my second post for clarification.:)

Thanks,
Tony


I had digestive tract issues for the past two weeks. They flared up Tuesday evening, I went to the doctor yesterday, spent an hour there, spent four long, long, long hours getting tests done in the hospital yesterday. I'm going back tomorrow to hear the results. The doctor was leaning towards colitis, but he has not ruled anything out. I am very nervous about finding out what is going on because I JUST DON'T KNOW. I have missed 6 days of school (counting tomorrow) in the past 2 weeks because of this. I'm sick of it, and I just want to get well for tornado season. Not to mention, I'm in all honors and road-to-AP courses at school, and missing this exorbitant amount of time is really crushing me.
Yeah, homes could be much better designed if safety was the primary concern - but obviously, appearance and comfort are.
154. code1
Ahh, I see haydn. You are in the bubble so to speak. So many, including me like to see the phenom of these monsters, but having lived through them. we are a little or a whole lot touchy about wishing them here soon. Please understand this as the season progresses as I don't remember you from last year. We all get a little (no, a lot) crazy when they are forecasted our way. Stick around and you will see for yourself. We are all like crazy hyenas! LOL
Read my previous few posts, and you'll understand, Tony. :)
Ugh, sounds awful Tony. Though somehow, we may be the only teens on the planet who want to get well from serious illness in time for tornado season

The above smiley is linked from my forum XD
157. haydn
Monolithic domes do look a little wierd. Topsider Homes and Natural Spaces Domes have stuff that look ok. Topsider is octagon shaped while NSD is a geodesic dome.
Thanks Colby!

Good night guys. I HAVE to try to get some sleep. Tomorrow might be a long day. Again.
49ers are going to win the superbowl in 06!!!!
Good night all...I have to get up at six, and it's 11:30 now. See you in the morning.
Skepony,

Here is my concern again...

Posted By: Skyepony at 3:59 AM GMT on February 10, 2006.

Chaser~ for the this is not fact but an opinion rant for me. You had the last sentence in bold, that Masters was stating it as fact. Lets put it in context & bold the part that says, what follows is my opinion.

"I say the new enforced restrictions are ridiculous. Our scientists have never needed these restrictions in the past. Our tax-payer salaried scientists should be free to speak out on more than just their scientific findings without the chilling oversight of politically-appointed officials concerned with making the president look good.

See, everyone is asuming what Dr. Masters wrote and continues to post about what the N.Y. Times wrote about what Mr. Deutsch supposedly said is true. My problem is that he denies saying it. Is it not possibly he didn't?

And if he didn't say those things, then he is getting unfairly defamed by Dr. masters and all who accept it as truth. None of us including Dr. Masters can say it is true. That's was and is my problem with both his posts on this subject.
Snowboy,

It is ironic you would talk about discussing issues "maturely" when you have resulted to personal attacks in the past.

However, I do AGREE with you that my first post tonight was very intense and I honestly was irritated when I got online and I SHOULDN"T have been so aggressive in my points.

On the other hand, I stand by EVERYTHING I wrote in my second post where I give specific reasons for my opinions, not calling them facts just for the record.:)

Thanks,
Tony


163. haydn
Good night,

To all interested...I have looked into building a dome house for some time. There are many companies and different materials. In hurricane and tornado prone areas I think these would be something to look into, especially if my home was destroyed.
164. code1
Chaser, it is called CYA. You know this is a fact in all political appointees whether Republican or Democrat! Has been proven through the years as this one most likley will be when he writes his memoirs for a million bucks!

Ty, let me know how the doc's appt. comes out. Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

haydn, yes I have heard about and seen the house you refer too. Multi-million $$ though. How many can afford that? I don't live right on the coast BTW, several miles off of it.

Hey all, been fun tonight, but work calls early in the morning. Remember to have fun debates here and make room for us to be back as soon as the season ramps up, for we will surely be back as Arnold says, "I'll be baaaaccckkkkk!"
Chaser, so fill us in here. You're saying Dr. Masters and the liberal media made the whole thing up, and that in fact no one tried to restrict Dr. Hansen's ability to speak publicly? (ie. you're calling Dr. Hansen a liar?)
166. Inyo
i just dont understand why he is so mad that Dr Masters is typing his 'liberal' thoughts in here (compared to me hes probably more of a 'moderate' anyway)... if you dont like the tone of a blog, and find it too 'liberal' (or i would say, just more accurate) then go to one of the many 'conservative' blogs online. i'm sure you can find many 'you cant PROVE that greenhouse warming is caused by us, therefore lets ignore it' blogs.
dome houses will work as well as dome tents (says the ardent camper) - angular high-standing tents get creamed in high winds, lower dome tents do just fine..
Snowboy,

Please show me where I said anyones lying? I am saying No one knows if the comments attributed to Mr. Deutsch are true and if they aren't(as he himself denies)is defamation of character and shouldn't be consistently cited by Dr. Masters to try to prove a point.

I have no idea if Dr. Hansen is telling the truth and I haven't said he wasn't. Can you say without a doubt he couldn't be exaggerating his claims?

The fact none of us know for certain and I personally am not going to keep saying someone has done something that themselves deny and therre's NO PROOF they did except a Liberal News source that opposes the administration he's affiliated with.

Inyo,

we naturally can agree to disagree respectfully politically but I NEVER said to ignore getting away from greenhouse gas emissions and find alternative forms of energy. I guess you don't like an objective opposing view when I can have my own personal(i.e. educated) opinion on what is the DIRECT cause of global warming.
I will make it clear once more, my issue is Dr. Masters personal attacks on people like Mr. Deutsch that aren't substantiated and for which he denies. This was the second time Dr. Masters posted his alledged remarks as fact.

That is wrong in my opinion and I have a right to say so.:)

This blog wasn't so heated until Dr. Masters started with the political attacks on the Bush administration which will make any debate divisive. Why can't we simply stick to discussing the WEATHER. I didn't read it was also a POLITICAL site when I payed my money to join.
Hi everyone. I dont have a problem with Dr. Jeff Masters blog when it comes to his Liberal Views. Remember his stands on the issue didnt make George C. Deutsch resign.
Chaser, Dr. Hansen went public when NASA political appointees tried to restrict his ability to speak freely. Now either he was telling the truth, or those who he accused of trying to shut him down were telling the truth. Either way, someone is not telling the truth and I find it very hard to believe that a top scientist at NASA would concoct this story...

What I find incredible, is that you're not standing at the side of a fellow-scientist and his right to speak freely, even if you disagree with his views.
173. code1
Chaser, as I said, I knew you wouldn't leave. You like your name too much. Although you know by the posts in your own blog that you wouldn't be followed by many. Very sad, as you are so intelligent. You just need to stop trying to be the end all, be all. No one believes anyone all the time my friend. Don't be so confrontational all the time and you would be more valued as you seem to so desire.
174. code1
Also Tony, what about all the posts against living right on the coast. You made it perfectly clear to us that you were living in a beach condo now. Is that supposed to impress us?
175. code1
You are also the one that made it political!!
176. code1
I am sorry everyone. Just hate unwarranted attacks against anyone, most notably our WU hosts. Good night and hope everyone has a good weekend.
Snowboy,

I am standing on the side of not unnecessarily defaming others when there is doubt as to the veracity of the attack. I never said I was for restricting the scientists ability to express their views.

Once again, you are making asumptions and are getting none of your points from what I myself have stated.

Therefore, I challenge you to find even one that says I am ok with the ALLEDGED silencing of scientists.

I will once again clarify that it is just as possible Mr. Deutsch has been accused on something he didn't say on two seperate occasions in Dr. Masters blogs which is what I am disapointed about.

Lightning,

you nor I have no idea why Mr. Deutsch was let go and we only know this because of what Dr. Masters put in the blog. I am not saying it's not true but it's possible it isn't as well. The key word is"apparently" coming from a source who wants to to be true.

I am for innocent till proven guilty when it comes to a persons character.

This is my whole issue with the two blogs.

you are way off subject as far as my concerns Snowboy trying to suggest anything else as evidenced in my initial comments above.:)



Code,

I didn't make unwarrented attacks.

So, I guess you are ok with WU hosts making unsubstantiated attacks on others?
Code,

why are you unnecessarily attacking me...what did I do to you?

I am living in a beach condo when I PREFER TO BE AT MY HOME THANKYOU which will be two more months because of raw sewage. How can you make light of that. I mentioned having to mover here, not wanting to.

That is very insentive of you and you are wrong in suggesting I am egotistical because I am far from it. I simply believe in standing up for what I THINK is right and I'm sorry you don't understand nor appreciate it.
Stormchaser,

you are so full of it.

You must NEVER GET ON then.
I have made that comment on three seperate occasions and meant it. I decided to respond to this blog which I felt was very inappropriate for the aforementioned reasons.

can ever one get a grip
Code,

I have ALWAYS stated it SHOULD NEVER be political...corrrection needed.

Thanks,
Tony
Chaser, this blog has blown up several times due to your ham-handed posts. Don't try to blame Dr. Masters for the messes you've made. Try to listen to what others are saying, and focus on being the scientist you want to be (and leave your politics and religion at home)...
George C. Deutsch...Ex-Press Aide for NASA Offers Defense as just reported by...gasp...The New York Times. some highlights~

Speaking to a Texas radio station and then to The New York Times, Mr. Deutsch said the scientist, James E. Hansen, exaggerated the threat of warming and tried to cast the Bush administration's response to it as inadequate.

"I have never been told to censor science, to squelch anything or to insert religion into any issue,"

After seeing a transcript of some of the criticisms, Dr. Hansen said, "This is so wacky that it deserves little response."

Michael D. Griffin, the NASA administrator, issued a "statement of scientific openness" to all NASA employees saying, "we have identified a number of areas in which clarification and improvements to the standard operating procedures of the Office of Public Affairs can and will be made." Dr. Griffin also said "it is not the job of public affairs officers to alter, filter or adjust engineering or scientific material produced by NASA's technical staff."
In the radio interview, Mr. Deutsch also criticized others within NASA who supported Dr. Hansen's view that he was being suppressed.

Leslie McCarthy, a public affairs officer who told The Times of several conversations in which Mr. Deutsch said his job was to "make the president look good," said she would not comment on his assertions. "The House Science Committee is conducting an investigation because they were concerned and I'm just not prepared to stoop to his level," Ms. McCarthy said in a telephone interview last night.


"When I left college," he said, "I did not properly update my rsum. As a result, it may appear misleading to some. However, I was up front with NASA about my undergraduate status when they hired me."

Well the resume thing doesn't sound all that bad, ya think he might of resigned because of the investigation?

& I definately want a dome home if mine was destroyed.
Code,

that is pathetic...I am not desiring to be followed unlike some on here.

I am here to correct misinterpreatations like yours and you have no idea how many people email me because they are afraid of attacks like yours siding with me.
I don't follow anyone and thats why I am not afraid to call Dr. Masters on something I PERSONALLY feel is wrong.

If I were trying to be popular as you suggest, I wouldn't consistently write blogs when I know most will dislike my views.

Therefore, you should use your common sense and realize that is obviously not my intention.

It is truly sad you can feel comfortable attacking me PERSONALLY over and over again saying things that are not close to being true!

For example, I am trying to impress people because I'm staying in a beach condo because my home has been destroyed!

What's impresive about that! I am staying in a condo when I prefer my HOME!

I am having to drive out of my way now to go anywhere in town.

I am in a condo that I couldn't EVER afford and wouldn't purchase if I had the money for reasons I wrote in my blog that you sarcastically refered to.

So, please attack me if you want to on things that are TRUE not your distorted impressions.

Thanks,
Tony


Chaser, you could have chosen tonight to post that Dr. Masters had brought up again the issue of the alleged attempts to restrict the right to free speech of a fellow scientist at NASA. You could have indicated your unequivocal support of that right to free discourse of scientists. You could have RESPECTFULLY pointed out that you disagreed with what Dr. Masters had posted.

Instead you posted a monologue rant attacking our host and you have been roundly and royally and deservedly chastised for doing so. Instead of trying to defend the indefensible, apologize and move on.

And again, I can not believe that you are questioning the veracity of Dr. Masters' post on the basis of nothing except your own ideology. You don't cite any evidence that he's wrong in any way, you just question his right to make his post, slam the "liberal" media which has dared to report the story, and then go on ad nauseum about the lack of proof of human effects on global warming (as if that had anything to do with the first part of your post).

You need to sharpen your debating skills if you hope to survive in here, me lad.
Snowboy,

I am in no mess because your opinions and those that disagree with my views matter very little to me thank you!

I am only concerned that you and others STICK to what I SAID no assumptions.

Hmmm...notice how Mr. Deutsch keeps saying Mr. Hansen is exaggerating...someones lying and NONE OF US know which is true.

This makes it even more appalling that Dr. Masters didn't post those assertions that rebutt his argument.

190. F5
Well, I see some things never change :). I've been so busy at work that I haven't really had time to read much, let alone post.

However, the usual suspects are back to their old tricks. Snowboy, you've repeatedly used ad hominem attacks and yet you castigate hurricanechaser for the mess in this blog? Dr. Masters and others like yourself are the ones who have injected politics into the blog. Now, is that right or wrong? As its Dr. Master's blog, he can say whatever he wants. He can even quote sources as fact even if they haven't been proven to be fact. He can also be called on it. If you or anyone else wants to bring politics into your discussion (and you have and so have others), then unless there is a list of rules for this particular blog that expressly prohibits political commentary, then you are free to do so as well. I have encouraged people not to, and I have expressly stated on several occasions that I will not respond to the political comments. If you all want the discussion to be on the weather and the weather only, then it is incumbent upon each and every one of you to leave the politics out of your posts. Some of you have a history of personal attacks as well. There's probably some history behind some of those attacks, but I can also say that while I've tried my best not to engage in that type of behavior (and have possibly failed), I personally have been subjected to ridicule and denigration by snowboy and several others on this board. From a personal standpoint, I really couldn't care less. What anyone on this board thinks of me really amounts to squat. But I do find it humorous that some of you are taking a stance as though you are above all that type of behavior and yet have been some of the biggest propagators of it.

As I see it, we all have a choice. Given the popularity of Dr. Master's blog, we can continue to all post here, and exchange ideas, debate issues, etc., in a calm, respectful manner or not. It is up to each person to decide how they will behave here. It will only be as good or as bad as we all make it.
chaser that article was posted only 2 hours ago~ doubt Dr Masters has seen it yet
LOl snowboy,

your perception of my debating skills lack merit because of your own skwed ideological views. You have NOT ONCE made an intelligent rebuttal to my REAL concerns but instead try to sidetrack the issue at hand by talking about things I not once disagrred on.

I am not trying to wind a debate. Although, I have no doubts you wouldn't stand a chance debating me in reality. All you do is attack and manipulate facts. If I were genuinaaly concerned with winning a silly debate, I wouldn't stick to simple and undeniable truths but rather continue to make completely irrelevent and distracting comments like yourself.

this is a perfect example as to the lacvk of respect you and others have for an opposing view. Instead of intelligent debate, we get attacks on a persons religios beliefs.

Anyone ever heard me critisize anyones religios views.

That is ultimately the biggest insult possible but not unexpected. I wish you all well nonetheless.

I am done trying to copmmunicate with those who would prefer to attack personally.

Goodnight all.

Tony


You Are a Real Snob HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT do not call him that


can we all drop it i think we have all said it for tonight so can we drop it now thank
195. code1
Tony, once again you choose to attack in public after emailing me the same, less a few insults. I mailed you back my response which I am sure you will post as is your MO, which I have no problem with others seeing my reply to you. I really feel sorry for you, yours, and your situation at hand. But, still feel like you attack far more that you perceive being attacked IMHO. I have to go to bed now. Up at 4:30 a.m. CST. Doesn't give me long before a long day tomorrow. If you want to respond here or by mail, please feel free to do so, just know that I won't respond until tomorrow night some time.

Nite all!
Hey F5, good to hear from you and I agree with the last paragraph of your post. Respectfully disagree with the rest. Check out Chaser's original 12:40 am GMT(?) post and see if you think it was the nice, calm respectful post you're advocating (and which I support)...
Well ya'll I know we're a little upset the storm we were watching on 1/2 abated breath never saw atleast an STS. lets not get too stirred over the politics...They are nessasary. We need to keep an eye on the plans for weather & climate research info dissemination. Also from time to time NOAA & NWS asks not only the privite sector but the public input on ideas & plans. Those that use the info often (including the tax paying public) need to be able to obtain current research as well as are excellent as a feedback source to NOAA on their products.

Does someone have a link to Dr Hansen's report?
Stormchaser.

I am responding to the political talk that started long ago and I am one of the few who isn't afraid to stand up to those like yourself who call others names.

I notice its all the liberals doiing the name calling. I am not saying all liberals just for the record.

Shows how you haven't been following, I am one of the very few who has said WE NEED TO KEEP POLITICS OUT OF the global warming debate!

In short, YOU COULDN"T BE MORE WRONG!

Im outta here, I know this pleases many who can't handle someone challenging their illogical ideological positions on WEATHER of all things.

I didn't start the political debates, but I will stand up for what I believe cdespite all the insults I am getting and will get long after I'm gone.

If you stand up for your principles, you can epect to make more enemies than friends. On the other hand, I'd rather have two friends who share my values than pretend to agree with things I strongly believe are wrong.

Therefore, you all can have your liberal blog since everyones stasting their political preferences and I will gladly stand alone anyday for what I believe is right.

That's where CODE is so wrong to think I of all people am seeking attention, wanting followers, or trying to win some popularity conterst.

Standing for what one beliefs is right will NEVER be easy and one should expect to alienate many because of the distorted views of our society.

So, FINALLY...goodbye to all.:)


200. code1
I'm sorry Tony. Just remembering your past posts of begging people to come to your blog, because you were better than other forecasters. You could not understand how we were on different blogs and not yours. If you need reminding, they are archived for all to see the comments. I never said it was a popularity contest, only that you seemed to need the accolades. If wrong, I apologize to you. As I said before, let us know your new website address. Will look forward to reading it.
Chaser, I'll say it again - you need to focus on your science background (and leave the religion/ideology at home), sharpen your debating skills (ie. don't fly off the handle if someone disagrees with you) and stop proceeding as if your point of view is the "undeniable truth"...

And you need to apologize to everyone for that first pompous post that stirred everyone up tonight...
Chaser, for the record I have enjoyed your weather 101's (in your blog) and will continue to visit for those. The attraction of them is that you stick to the science, which is your strong point.
Code,

YOU KNOW YOU JUST LIED(or somehow are confused)..I emailed you an EXACT post of what I have posted here first!

I then responded to each of your suceeding posts attacking me, none of whicvh I mailed you.

There is too much dishonesty and personal attacks for me to even think of responding to all this immaturity!


Snowboy,

you keep referencing my first post ..heres what I said later about that first post just for the record.


Posted By: hurricanechaser at 4:23 AM GMT on February 10, 2006.

Tony,

How do you get this out of my post?

Posted By: tornadoty at 3:49 AM GMT on February 10, 2006.

I can't possibly see anything in Dr. Masters' post that could anger anybody. Anybody who does not want information from NASA being more freely available must be in cahoots with bush (note the lowercase 'b') and his crazy jesters.

Did I say I didn't want information coming out of NASA?

My concern was the political attacks on Bush by claiming as truth the defaming comments about another(Mr. Deutsch)repeatedly as facts in both blogs was and is wrong.

So, Tony, if you were Mr. Deutsch and you DIDN'T make the comments Dr. Masters keeps reposting in his blogs from the N.Y. Times, would you consider them a personal attack?

I know I would and that's my issue with Dr. Masters.

I will correct myself and say that I did go overboard and the comment about being "consistently wrong" in his blogs was unwarrented. The rest I stand by as justified by the record. Reread my second post for clarification.:)

I am DONE HERE...Wil never read another comment on here..so have fun attacking me. You are ony hurting yourselfs by such actions.:)

Thanks,
Tony

Come off it Chaser, of course you'll read and make more posts on here. You're as interested in the weather as the rest of us, and wait till hurricane season rolls around...
Ok...I couldn't resist..lol

Code,

That was not what I was saying..read the archives yourself!

I was saying I couldn't understand how you all could support Leftys actions of name calling, cursing etc. and his refusal to accept numerous sincere apologies.

I wasn't trying to compete with him for people to ever visit my blogs.

I simply appreciate if ONLY one person reads my blogs honestly. I care more about helping others with what LITTLE I am fortunate to have learned. Where I am more knowledgable in one area, there will be hundreds that are more knowledgable in many other areas.

Simple fact is we all are products of our circumstances, opportunities, and experiences and I have never considered myself BETTER than anyone else. I am only taking a stand for what I pesonally think is right, no more and no less.

Snowboy,

how many times to I have to repost my amendment to my first post tonight that was way overboard and like I said, I got online irritated to start.

well thank ever one i lots hurricanechaser may be for good i will not get a ch to say hi any more to him so thank a lot you all and i am out of her i love hi vary march i and i am mad right now so have a vary good night to ever one
208. code1
Be very careful Tony...Don't ever call me a liar!!! Call me confused if you choose to, but I am NOT a liar and will call you on that any day. Just what am I lying about? Don't say you won't read this, we have heard it before. I just replied to your email in a very nice and respectful manner and come back here to find this comment?! I thought you were a man. My mistake. Only a coward calls a woman a liar and runs away. I have had it with you as well now! You show us all where I have lied and I will go back to previous blogs and post them on my own blog to show your own comments over the past year. Anytime you feel ready big man!
Ok Chaser, that sounds like a grudging apology and on behalf of all I'll gratefully accept it. Let's get a good night's sleep and see if we can't calm down - the great thing about life (and these blogs!) is that each day is a new day, and we can try to learn from yesterday's mistakes. G'night all.
Snowboy,

I can certainly appreciate your points to bring harmony and in retrospect, I could've done a far better job discussing my concerns than the VERY AGGRESSIVE manner than I wrote my initial post tonight. For that, I do apologize but I can't apologize for my beliefs in my central premise as reiterated numerous times thereafter.

Code,

I may have also jumped the gun on you as you have done to me by saying YOU LIED...I honestly believe our comments caused confusion on both ends.

I apologize for that VERY INAPPROPRIATE comment for whicxh I could not know your true intention for which I pesonally have taken issue with tonight many times.

Code,

I was writing my post u8naware of your post. God knows that is te truth. I recognized I was wrong for that.

YOu said I had posted in this blog my email to you minus a few insults.

That wasn't true and I wrongly assumed you were suggesting I added something to what I sent you which was sent after I posted the exact comment on here.

Once again, I was wrong and your recent comments are understandable and I don't take those personally for they would be deserved if I didn't feel I was wrong in my ASSUMPTION.;)_
Hey Stormchaser,

I respect your views as well and I didn't say that believing in human induced global warming makes one a liberal.. It is just that most liberals believe that Global warming is DIRECTLY related to human activities.

The only way I will ever vote democrat is if they become pro-life, Are for putting God first again in our Country, decide marriage should ONLY be between a man and woman.

These are FAR more important issues to me than what is the DIRECT cause of rising global temperatures over the past century.

So, do you really think there's much chance of that hapening and me switching my political parties.

I am more a moderate on taxes, social security, welfare (needs reform), and environment.

But God always comes first for me regardless of how many times I set a bad example of being who I should be for Him.

I am certainly not suggesting using me as a good example of walking a perfect CHristian life (only have to look at the pst couple of hours to see that).

Thanks,
Tony
Goodnight everyone.:)
218. F5
Snowboy,

I did read every comment for this blog. I saw hurricanechaser's post. My response was to everyone. I find it a bit ironic that you are blasting hurricanechaser for his behavior, when you engaged similar or worse with me. You disagree and that's fine. We don't have to agree on everything I said or even anything I said. We should, however, be civil in our discourse, whether we agree or not. I'm not heaping all the blame on you or anyone else. Many people have acted in a way that doesn't exactly lend itself to friendly discussion. But I do see a lot of pot's and kettle's in here and no one is blameless or without shame. It's up to all of us to do our part to maintain civility.
219. F5
I see the tunnels are still a big topic of discussion as well. Make it stop make it stop :)
220. Inyo
oh no, now hes going off on 'social conservatism' aka fascism.

what do you care what gay people do? I could care less if they get married, as long as i dont have to marry another man. and the last thing i want is my government spending 234234 hours trying to harass gay people while there are MUCH more pressing issues like um, a WAR?

and maybe you should worry less about undifferentiated, brainless fetal tissue and more about the people who the Bush administration are bombing in various areas right now. Its not okay to 'kill' a zygote but it is okay to bomb people for oil? it's just silly!

and your devotion to your religion is admirable in a way, but i've read the same bible as you and i really don't recall seeing much about gay people, especially in the new testament. Nor did i see anything about fetii. I did see a lot of stuff about not killing people or treating others poorly. and not doing things like say, ruining the world for other people. maybe you should go read the bible again!

as for the new york times, if by liberal you mean 'not owned by Bush and fox news', then i guess yeah, it's liberal. Another more descriptive word might be 'accurate'.


Stormchaser, the conservatives will keep voting their people in regardless of logic or science. Granted, this is true for the liberals too to a large extent. I am no huge fan of the Democrats, but the obsession of our government with oppressing gay people, obsessing over fetii, and keeping braindead corpses 'alive' in hospitals makes me feel ill.
221. RL3AO
Looks like the NESIS will get its first test this weekend.

6-12" for NYC
StormChaser: Moab= the mother of all bombs...

CNN.com - US tests massive bomb - Mar. 11, 2003The MOAB, privately known in military circles as "the mother of all bombs," has ... It was the final test of the new Massive Ordnance Air Blast, or MOAB, ...

Tony, I hope have finally decided to leave. You are not wanted here at WU, all you do is cause trouble. You keep saying goodbye, and then you come back. Please leave already and let us have our peace. Bye Bye now!!
Dr Masters, you have the patience of JOB for putting up with this stuff on your blog!!! Thanks, Gamma


WOW...I just finished the entire episode of "Last Night's Fights"....somethings never change....some of you boys and girls, when bored, can always find something to fight over.

Most of us have deep religious & political views, and get offended when someone tromples over them. However, sometimes it is better to ignore it so we can enjoy these blogs. We need to keep religion and politics off of these blogs as much as possible, and this is coming from a woman with very powerful beliefs. And be respectful of everyone's beliefs in all things.

Just remember, most of us that enjoy each other's company have other blogs we are communicating on right now and just checking this one with each new update from Dr Master's. HOWEVER, once Hurricane Season kicks back in, we are all going to come back to this blog for info & input and once again be a dominate force here!!! lol

BEWARE!!!!! lol lol lol

Gamma
(When Alberto forms, I'll Be Backkkkkkkkk))))
cyclone....must report credibility break at 1:24PM, 2/10/06.
Weatherguy'03 rocks and speaks the truth.
And Anotherone bites the dust...... & the saga/song continues!
i this like to update ever one

1st off the P storm update is uot by the nhc

2nd there is a vary big snow storm going on well may be not yet but it will

3rd my new blog is update and news about the snow you can find on my blog so stop on in
231. jeffB
Hurricanechaser,

Without revisiting the ground that has been so thoroughly trampled over the last few weeks, may I make what I hope will be a helpful suggestion?

I've seen a number of instances where you make an "aggressive" (as you put it) post, and when others reply, you point out that they've misinterpreted what you said.

If what you say is consistently being misinterpreted, it may be malicious on the part of the responders -- but it may also be that you aren't doing a good job of making your actual points clear.

If you really want to convince fence-sitters, or even opponents, perhaps you should focus on making statements that are more difficult to misinterpret.
Inyo,

I was sharing my views on why I would NEVER vote democract unless their plat-form changed. Nowhere did I denegrate anothers right to believe another way.

Where did I attack anyone in that? You can't say that as usual.

you said:

Posted By: Inyo at 8:53 AM GMT on February 10, 2006.

"oh no, now hes going off on 'social conservatism' aka fascism.

what do you care what gay people do? I could care less if they get married, as long as i dont have to marry another man. and the last thing i want is my government spending 234234 hours trying to harass gay people while there are MUCH more pressing issues like um, a WAR?

and maybe you should worry less about undifferentiated, brainless fetal tissue and more about the people who the Bush administration are bombing in various areas right now. Its not okay to 'kill' a zygote but it is okay to bomb people for oil? it's just silly!

and your devotion to your religion is admirable in a way, but i've read the same bible as you and i really don't recall seeing much about gay people, especially in the new testament. Nor did i see anything about fetii. I did see a lot of stuff about not killing people or treating others poorly. and not doing things like say, ruining the world for other people. maybe you should go read the bible again!

as for the new york times, if by liberal you mean 'not owned by Bush and fox news', then i guess yeah, it's liberal. Another more descriptive word might be 'accurate'.


Stormchaser, the conservatives will keep voting their people in regardless of logic or science. Granted, this is true for the liberals too to a large extent. I am no huge fan of the Democrats, but the obsession of our government with oppressing gay people, obsessing over fetii, and keeping braindead corpses 'alive' in hospitals makes me feel ill."


Please tell me how your attacks on Conservatives and calling people facists of all things is right? This is the arrogant, insensitive, and demeaning rhetoric that continues from those like you and BOB (Weatherguy03) in these blogs. I don't make blanket statements and ASSUME you think or feel a certain way.

To BOB, you wish I'd leave because you don't like the attention I receive in my blogs because you aren't the only educated forecaster on here. You don't discuss weather but consistently attack me personally. Once again, I am not making trouble as you see and you can't say Everyone doesn't want me here(you are way off on that). I do believe most would say so, because most are not respectful of my own personal opinions and prefer to have these blogs dominated with liberal views. I will not leave NOW specifically to annoy you with my presence. You couldn't leave well enough alone!

Ok, Inyo,


You say Homosexuality is not wrong according to the Bible,then you must not be reading the same Bible I am obviously.

Try reading 1 Corinthians 6:9 or read 1 Timothy 1:8-11. It is clear Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God as is all sin.

Aids would've never existed without homosexual activity which now affects heteosexuals. Please explain to me logically and scientifically (s you try to say Conservatives don't understand)how two men or two women can produce a child NATURALLY? They can't because it is completely unnatural while a man and woman were designed to sustain life.

To me, it is very hypocritical to worry about the alarmists view of how global warming is going to cause the end of the human race. If you sit back and allow the gay rights movement to continue to push their distorted agenda, we will continue to see more sicial ils in our country. Think about it logically, if everyone in this world only engaged in homosexual activity, how long would the human race survive? It woiuld begin heading for extinction that very moment and the human race would be destroyed by REAL human activities within 100 years!





Attacking my right to a pro-life stance? Is your Bible in support of murder of an innocent and helpless life?

Here is a fact that no one can deny. No one knows exactly when life actually begins in the womb. However, it is logical that the moment a heart starts beating that is most essential to preserving any life, is a very sound rational starting point.

A babies heart starts beating before most women ever realize they are even pregnant. In short, abortion of any kind stops the beating heart of a living baby no matter how you view this issue. To me personally, it is murder and I for one can't support that.

I am staying here because I have gotten numerous emails asking me to stay and even people who aren't members finding my personal email off ofgoogle and asking me to keep up the good work. If ONLY one person benefited from my own personal experiences, knowledge, or beliefs, then that's enough for me to give of my time to try and benefit anothe in some way. Please don't misinterpret that to be arrogant for we ALL have areas that we are more experienced and knowledable than another. In other words, for every area I may know more than another as a result of circumstances, experienes, or the like, there are probably hundreds who know more than me in many other areas. So, who on here can presume to know everything. My opinions are JUST THAT, my own personal beliefs, values, and opinions. If you don't like them, I humbly ask that you not attack ME personally and please don't stereotype me and instad form your opinions on what I say not what you think you see.

Regardless, I am defending my views that you unnecessarily attacked from this post from me in response to STORMCHASER77.

"Posted By: hurricanechaser at 6:48 AM GMT on February 10, 2006.

Hey Stormchaser,

I respect your right to your own views. I didn't say that believing in human induced global warming makes one a liberal.. It is just that most liberals believe that Global warming is DIRECTLY related to human activities.

The only way I will ever vote democrat is if they become pro-life, Are for putting God first again in our Country, decide marriage should ONLY be between a man and woman.

These are FAR more important issues to me than what is the DIRECT cause of rising global temperatures over the past century.

So, do you really think there's much chance of that hapening and me switching my political parties.

I am more a moderate on taxes, social security, welfare (needs reform), and environment.

But God always comes first for me regardless of how many times I set a bad example of being who I should be for Him.

I am certainly not suggesting using me as a good example of walking a perfect CHristian life (only have to look at the pst couple of hours to see that).

Thanks,
Tony


Now I know why I seldom read and have never, before this, posted to a blog.
Bobburg: I am a newbie to the blog world too, but Dr. Masters has a blog worth reading. Unlike what all these pseudo-scientists blab about as a result of his postings... I have found that the postings from Dr. Masters are scientifically based, sound, unobjective, and certainly worth reading. My only advice: Don't read the comments of anyone who writes about tunnels or responds to posts about tunnels. These are the type of guys that think wrestling is real.

Let's keep this about science, you guys. Not your own brand of homemade pseudo-science you whipped up in the bathtub when mom's not looking. If the credibe scientific community (ie. Dr. Masters and his buddies at the convention) present information that is well reserached, it's going to be 110% more sound than anything you can come up with in your spare time. Leave the theorizing and hypothesizing to the experts . If you don't like their predicitons, then take action! Change your lifestyle so you don't abuse the environment. Vounteer, support environmental protection non-profits. Use your time to make a difference instead of trying to dispute the experts in the field.

Lemme put it this way...

If you've taken your car to 1000 of the best mechanics in the world, and they're all telling you you need a new transmission, why would you disagree with them and try to fix your AC instead? This is not about being a democrat versus a republican. This is not about liberals versus conservatives. This is about the facts of global climate change, the causes of which are a combination of effects INCLUDING human factors that we may be able to control if we all ackowledge that fact RIGHT NOW and take action.

So stop talking about god and your political opinions. If you want to get spiritual, then remember that the most spiritual thing about being human (or any animal) is the ability to create a new life in your image and protect it so that it may survive and do the same. Now move that forward a few generations, and think about the life you are creating for your great-grandchildren and so-on. Will they care that you spent your time arguing about your god, your pseudo-science, and your political opinions? NO. They will be battling raging hurricanes, floods, blizzards, and anything else whipped up as a result of the severe climate changes. No more walking to school for them. And lots less picnics outside! Remember those days when you had to stay inside for lunchtime as a kid because of the weather? It sucked! NOw think of a lifetime of that kind of existence. But instead of trying to protect future generations from this sad existence where nature is the enemy, you are wasting your time arguing with people on blogs!

They would be better off if you TOOK ACTION to prevent the aspects of climate change that are within our control! Get rid of your Hummer and go for the Prius, recycle, eat organic, and listen to the scientific community for their expert opinion about what to do next. GET OVER YOURSELF and your ego about your opinions and instead take action! Actions speak louder than words. Make that your religion.
Fshhead wrote:

"LOL I coudn't resist.........
BUILD THE TUNNELS TO STOP THE FUNNELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, that was a good one Myles!!!!!"


Just for the record, I was the one who posted that, not Myles.
sunlakedude wrote:

I'd hardly call the Gray Old Lady, the NYT, to be "left-leaning".

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! NYT not liberal??? Oh-kay, dude...whatever you say...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!