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Major Pacific Northwest winter storm poised to slam Eastern U.S. this weekend

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 2:11 PM GMT on December 08, 2010

A major winter storm powered ashore today in the Pacific Northwest, bringing heavy rain and snow to the Olympic Mountains. This storm dumped four inches of rain over the Olympics, bringing the Skokomish River to flood stage. Record warm temperatures ahead of the storm have surged northwards across the Pacific Northwest, with Seattle, Washington hitting a record high of 55°F yesterday. Snowfall amounts approaching 2 feet are expected in the Olympic Mountains from the storm, with 1 - 3 feet likely in the Cascade Mountains. This is typical sort of storm one expects to see during a La Niña winter.


Figure 1. Radar-estimated precipitation from the Seattle radar for the period Dec 7 - Dec 8. Precipitation amounts in excess of 4 inches have occurred over the Olympic Mountains. Mountains surrounding Seattle block the radar beam, leading to the streaky nature of the image.

As the storm tracks eastwards over the Central U.S. later this week, it will intensify and pull in a large amount of cold, Canadian air. The latest set of computer model runs have come into much better agreement on the track of the storm, and a band of heavy snow of 6 - 10 inches is likely to set up over Central Illinois on Saturday afternoon. The storm will move rapidly eastwards, with the heaviest snow likely to impact northern Indiana, northern Ohio, and southern Ontario on Sunday. The biggest cold blast of the season thus far will roar in behind the storm, causing widespread blowing and drifting of the snow, plus new heavy Lake-effect snows in the lee of the Great Lakes. Low temperatures approaching -20°F are likely in northern Minnesota Saturday and Sunday night after the storm passes. By Tuesday morning, much of the eastern half of the nation will shiver through one the coldest mornings on record for the first half of December, with below freezing temperatures expected to penetrate all the way into South Florida. Record lows were set across much of Southeast U.S. this morning, with 39°F at Fort Lauderdale, 16°F in Columbia SC, and 9°F in Lychburg, VA. Temperatures much colder than this are likely on Tuesday morning across the region.


Figure 2. Forecast surface temperature for 7am EST on Tuesday, December 14, as predicted by this morning's 1am EST run of the GFS model. The heavy red line running along the coast of Florida is the 0°C freezing line, and temperatures below freezing are expected across nearly all of the Southeast U.S.

I'll have a new post on Thursday, when I'll discuss the CSU and TSR forecasts for the 2011 hurricane season. The TSR forecast was released Monday, and the CSU forecast is due out later today.

Jeff Masters
LAKE EFFECT SNOW SQUALL
LAKE EFFECT SNOW SQUALL
An image from the Lake Effect Snow Chase that Matt and I went on. CLICK HERE for the entire chase account detailed with videos and photos!
To much snow!!!

Winter Weather

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Thanks Doc! Very cold temps expected Monday Night in C FL as the NWS of Melbourne is calling for temps in the 18 to 22 range for north Orlando.
jeff 9641 how cold will it be in south fla
wat does the gfs show jeff 9641
thank u jeff masters great update
Quoting eddye:
jeff 9641 how cold will it be in south fla


Highs near 50 Monday with lows in the upper 20's to near 30 in Miami. Now that's a forecast you can bank on.
Nice update.
Thx Doc...
Quoting Jeff9641:


Highs near 50 Monday with lows in the upper 20's to near 30 in Miami. Now that's a forecast you can bank on.


Wow...
wat is this the coldest since a long time for next week wow never seen the 20 in a long time in south fla
11. IKE
Record lows were set across much of Southeast U.S. this morning, with 39°F at Fort Lauderdale, 16°F in Columbia SC, and 9°F in Lychburg, VA. Temperatures much colder than this are likely on Tuesday morning across the region.

.............

Get ready folks!

This severe cold could be setting up a very serious fire situation next Spring if we don't get substantial rain this Winter.
Quoting eddye:
wat is this the coldest since a long time for next week wow never seen the 20 in a long time in south fla


Hasn't been a pre-Winter cold wave like what's forecasted for next week in a long time...
Quoting IKE:
Record lows were set across much of Southeast U.S. this morning, with 39°F at Fort Lauderdale, 16°F in Columbia SC, and 9°F in Lychburg, VA. Temperatures much colder than this are likely on Tuesday morning across the region.

.............

Get ready folks!



IKE I think you may get some Flurries here soon.
jeff so that is wat the gfs is showing colder then wat we were looking at yesterday
Quoting IKE:
Snow so close....if it wasn't so dry....


You should get some flakes out of this before it's over; both rain mixed with snow and full-on snow look on radar to be inching your way. Believe some is falling in Mobile as I write this...
Quoting TBPauly:


Hasn't been a pre-Winter cold wave like what's forecasted for next week in a long time...


Not since the 1970's and 1980's no.
jeff 9641
Quoting eddye:
jeff so that is wat the gfs is showing colder then wat we were looking at yesterday


Yes the models are trending colder. As the models trend colder I believe this ups our severe wx risk Sunday as temps Saturday are forecast to be 78.
so jeff wow yesterday it was 38 in weston do u think it will be colder then yesterday monday
Quoting eddye:
so jeff wow yesterday it was 38 in weston do u think it will be colder then yesterday monday


Yes by 6 to 10 degrees.
Monday morning

I know he said he'd discuss the TSR forecast on Thursday, but I had to take a quick peek:

Named storms, 15.6 (±4.3)

Hurricanes, 8.4 (±3.0)

Intense hurricanes (majors), 4.0 (±1.7)

ACE, 141 (±58)
Morning. 8 degrees in the UP currently. Got another 3 inches of snow last night. If this systems does as the good doctor says, the north-east winds coming off of Lake Superior could easily drop a foot of snow a day in our area. Time to gas up the snowblower!
For West Palm Beach

Dr. M,
Thanks for headlining the PacNW on the main blog.
Two record setting cold periods in 2 years in Florida-anomaly or trend?? Record cold in Europe, for the second year in a row-is the Atlantic Oscillation weakening imperceptively at this point but enough to affect us?(I'm just a kibitzer, but am wondering)
Complete Update





Quoting GeoffreyWPB:
For West Palm Beach



Wouldn't be surprised if they drop those numbers Mon-Tues by about 5 degrees as models
more then 5 days out tend to take climatology into account and are many times to warm when it comes to Arctic fronts.
Quoting ncgnto25:
Two record setting cold periods in 2 years in Florida-anomaly or trend?? Record cold in Europe, for the second year in a row-is the Atlantic Oscillation weakening imperceptively at this point but enough to affect us?(I'm just a kibitzer, but am wondering)

I believe we are seeing the beginning of a trend.
2 years in the row of record cold for Florida....maybe no hurricane landfalls in the US again for 2011 until the grand finaly in 2012
any ideas on how much snow to expect in central Indiana from this storm saturday night?
Quoting RitaEvac:
2 years in the row of record cold for Florida....maybe no hurricane landfalls in the US again for 2011 until the grand finaly in 2012

I really don't see next year being any different from this year in terms of steering flows and lack of CONUS landfalls.
National Geographic channel was talking about how plants were flashed freezed abruptly in different places around the world at the same time. Ice ages, the Myans and so forth.
Lafayette, Purdue University Airport
Lat: 40.43 Lon: -86.93 Elev: 623
Last Update on Dec 8, 8:54 am EST

Fair

4 °F
(-16 °C)
Humidity: 88 %
Wind Speed: Calm
Barometer: 30.24" (1025.3 mb)
Dewpoint: 1 °F (-17 °C)
Visibility: 9.00 mi.
Quick question:

How far in advance can one make a REASONABLE forecast of cloud cover?

The reason I'm asking is because on the night of the 20th/morning of the 21st, there's going to be a total lunar eclipse, viewable by most of the CONUS (depending on cloud cover).

Next total lunar viewable in the US won't be until 2014.

There's a website that you can go to to see if it's viewable in your area, but it would still depend on the weather. Here in Biloxi, total runs from about 1:41am to 2:53am, on the 21st.

Javascript Lunar Eclipse Explorer:

eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JLEX/JLEX-index.html

And this page shows area & details:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/OH/OHfigures/OH2010-Fig04.pdf
Quoting cat5hurricane:

I believe we are seeing the beginning of a trend.


It does seem over the last few years that their has been a trend toward huge Arctic Outbreaks. We went several years prior to 2009 with no recorded freeze in Orlando and now it is becoming a common occurance during the Winter months. It does make you wonder what's going on with the Atlantic Oscillation is this common every 15 to 20 years because i remember the Winters in the 1980's in FL brutal as a kid growing up.
Quoting tornadodude:
any ideas on how much snow to expect in central Indiana from this storm saturday night?

Right now, I'm going to go with several inches...perhaps 3 or 4. This system will be disproportionately lacking moisture of a storm of comparable intensity. Plus, I see that region of the midwest possibly getting some rain and sleet mixed in, would would also cut down totals. Hey 3 or 4 inches though...that could be enough for a white Christmas nonwithstanding a mild thaw in a few weeks leading up to then.
Anybody have the El-nino forecast for later next summer into next winter because this could play a big roll in how many storms we see. if EL-Nino comes fast late next Summer then I would venture to say we may only have 10 to 12 storms.
Quoting Jeff9641:


It does seem over the last few years that their has been a trend toward huge Arctic Outbreaks. We went several years prior to 2009 with no recorded freeze in Orlando and now it is becoming a common occurance during the Winter months. It does make you wonder what's going on with the Atlantic Oscillation is this common every 15 to 20 years because i remember the Winters in the 1980's in FL brutal as a kid growing up.

Yep. Likewise, I won't ever forget living up in Chicago during that time. My folks used to have to shovel the snow near our fence line so the dog wouldn't hop the fence since the snow was so high. That stretch in the early to mid 80's was very brutally cold for everyone.
Quoting cat5hurricane:

Right now, I'm going to go with several inches...perhaps 3 or 4. This system will be disproportionately lacking moisture of a storm of comparable intensity. Plus, I see that region of the midwest possibly getting some rain and sleet mixed in, would would also cut down totals. Hey 3 or 4 inches though...that could be enough for a white Christmas nonwithstanding a mild thaw in a few weeks leading up to then.


yeah I was thinking similarly, thanks!

Im not sure it will last til Christmas, but a week might not be out of the question
Any old temperature maps from those outbreaks in the 80s?
Quoting GetReal:
OMG a post by Dr. Masters which mentioned record cold December tempertures, and without one reference to AGW for the blame!!!

LOL. Like the avatar. It is a MUST to win out that division since you don't want Matt Ryan securing out home field advantage in that dome where they just DO NOT lose.
think this will ever happen again...

Yeah, i remember as a kid back in January of 1985 scrapping ice of my dads car in Miami.
Also in 1989 ice all over my back yard in Miami
had a temperature of 29 on my back yard thermometer.
1989 had that mega 1054mb high
If you live in peninsular Florida, you might want to catch the launch of the Falcon 9/Dragon spacecraft in less than 20 minutes. If it goes up as planned, the crystal-clear skies should make it visible over a very wide area, even though it's small and should be moving very rapidly...

Info here: http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/002/status.html
Quoting RitaEvac:
2 years in the row of record cold for Florida....maybe no hurricane landfalls in the US again for 2011 until the grand finaly in 2012


What does the winter season have to do with hurricane season, a summer occurrence?
Quoting GetReal:
OMG a post by Dr. Masters which mentioned record cold December tempertures, and without one reference to AGW for the blame!!!


Probably due to the climate change conference in Cancun setting record low temps 3 days in a row. Quite ironic and reminiscent of last years meeting.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/MMUN/2010/12/7/DailyHistory.html

Just a hunch
Quoting Ossqss:


Probably due to the climate change conference in Cancun setting record low temps 3 days in a row. Quite ironic and reminiscent of last years meeting.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/MMUN/2010/12/7/DailyHistory.html


Yeah. Cold temps in winter are pretty rare; they should move the conferences to summer to help convince contrarians... ;-)
Quoting Neapolitan:

Yeah. Cold temps in winter are pretty rare; they should move the conferences to summer to help convince contrarians... ;-)


well I think he was referencing the record low temps. this has happened twice in a row now, its just ironic I guess :P
Good morning everyone!

My thermometer reading bottomed out at 24.2 degrees this morning, and NWS office at Jacksonville International Airport set a new record low for this date with 24 degrees as well, breaking the mark of 28 degrees set back in 1984.

There will most definitely will be more record breaking low temps to occur beginning early next week across the Deep South and the Florida peninsula. This arctic airmass coming in behind the powerful winter storm moving out of the OH Valley region by the end of the weekend is extremely cold. I'm afraid will could have a crippling event for Florida's fruit and vegetable crops. There is a very reasonable chance that this next arctic intrusion will be comparable to the severe freezes experienced during the 1980s decade. The models throughout this week thus far have consistently trended colder. I just hope people down in the peninsula are taking precautions about next week. It just looks down right brutal right now if the model runs verify.
Quoting unf97:
Good morning everyone!

My thermometer reading bottomed out at 24.2 degrees this morning, and NWS office at Jacksonville International Airport set a new record low for this date with 24 degrees as well, breaking the mark of 28 degrees set back in 1984.

There will most definitely will be more record breaking low temps to occur beginning early next week across the Deep South and the Florida peninsula. This arctic airmass coming in behind the powerful winter storm moving out of the OH Valley region by the end of the weekend I'm afraid will be a crippling event for Florida's fruit and vegetable crops. There is a very reasonable chance that this next arctic intrusion will be comparable to the severe freezes experienced during the 1980s decade. The models throughout this week thus far have consistently trended colder. I just hope people down in the peninsula are taking precautions about next week. It just looks down right brutal right now if the model runs verify.

I completely agree. I think the FL citrus crop along with others is at severe risk next week. If you like orange juice, stock up now before prices potentially soar if the crop takes a hit.
This next Arctic Blast come Monday maybe some of the coldest temps FL residents have ever seen before. Coldest I've ever seen it was last winter at 22 and their is some thinking that my are in the Wekvia Springs/Apopka area will get into the mid to upper teens for lows.
Quoting cat5hurricane:

I completely agree. I think the FL citrus crop along with others is at severe risk next week. If you like orange juice, stock up now before prices potentially soar if the crop takes a hit.


Yes sir indeed you are speaking the truth there. The price of orange juice is just going the go through the roof if this crippling freeze comes in next week as expected. Also, the strawberry fields down around Plant City could also take a real severe hit as well next week.
and will south fla get cold 2
All they have to do is spray mist on the fruit and will insulate the fruit at 32 degrees
Quoting Jeff9641:
This next Arctic Blast come Monday maybe some of the coldest temps FL residents have ever seen before. Coldest I've ever seen it was last winter at 22 and their is some thinking that my are in the Wekvia Springs/Apopka area will get into the mid to upper teens for lows.

At this point, I would not be too surprised to see mid teens for those inland locations with these longer range model projections. There up through Ocala and Gainsville may be in the zone for setting all-time records on Tuesday morning. We'll see.
Quoting unf97:


Yes sir indeed you are speaking the truth there. The price of orange juice is just going the go through the roof if this crippling freeze comes in next week as expected. Also, the strawberry fields down around Plant City could also take a real severe hit as well next week.

Yep...the strawberries and also perhaps the limes and sugar as Jeff9641 pointed out in the previous blog.
Phil Klotzbach / Dr Gray released their first 2011 forecast and they are forecasting another active season (17/9/5)

Link
unf so u see south fla geting cold 2
Quoting Jeff9641:
This next Arctic Blast come Monday maybe some of the coldest temps FL residents have ever seen before. Coldest I've ever seen it was last winter at 22 and their is some thinking that my are in the Wekvia Springs/Apopka area will get into the mid to upper teens for lows.

I would agree if most of FL residents were born and raised here but most aren't (including me). The weather now and next week are reminding me of the two-year stint I pulled in Delaware in the eighties. ;~)
salt boxes are full shovels are at ready snowblowers primed all set for whats yet to come

thanks for the update get ready for the fun
Quoting tornadodude:


yeah I was thinking similarly, thanks!

Im not sure it will last til Christmas, but a week might not be out of the question


I wouldn't put anything into any of the forcasts other than it will get cold. Storm track won't be at a higher confidence until the storm actually gets sampled. Many unknowns. GFS model is spittin out anywhere from 4 - 10 inches from south central Illinois east northeast into northwest Ohio.

06Z monday gfs snowfall forecast


00Z monday gfs snowfall forecast
Quoting cat5hurricane:

Yep...the strawberries and also perhaps the limes and sugar as Jeff9641 pointed out in the previous blog.


Hopefully the Strawberry Festival won't be hurt too badly. Well, worse than it already will be by having Billy Ray Cyrus in concert.

Quoting Jeff9641:


It does seem over the last few years that their has been a trend toward huge Arctic Outbreaks. We went several years prior to 2009 with no recorded freeze in Orlando and now it is becoming a common occurance during the Winter months. It does make you wonder what's going on with the Atlantic Oscillation is this common every 15 to 20 years because i remember the Winters in the 1980's in FL brutal as a kid growing up.



Yes - the late 80's had very similar weather -- I remember having a Xmas party, middle of December, and temps outside were in the 30's at 11:00 pm. It was unusual, so I've always remembered that.
Quoting RitaEvac:
All they have to do is spray mist on the fruit and will insulate the fruit at 32 degrees
The critical point is 28 degrees for oranges. If there is a prolonged period of temperatures of 28 degrees or lower for at least a minimum of four to six hours, that would be damaging to the crop despite the insulation of ice placed on the fruit.


Areas across Central and South Central peninsula could drop into the low- mid 20s if the GFS run verifies next week, which definitely could create some seriois issues for the citrus, as well as the vegetable crops for the state.


fruit will be soft anyway most can be saved for frozen concentrated juice with less product for store shelves
Here is my blog post on the storm Link
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
fruit will be soft anyway most can be saved for frozen concentrated juice with less product for store shelves


Good point KOTG. However, I would imagine that there would still be some considerable losses of citrus with such an extreme cold spell.
At what point do you lose the trees too?

My uncle had an orange grove wiped out, trees and all, in Plaquemines Parish LA, in the late 80's Artic blast ('88 was it?). Took 5 years to get back to producing fruit again.
With the severe cold outbreaks in the 80's eventhough the fruit was water at night to protect the trees we still lost many orange grooves because if it is 24 or lower for more than 4 hours then the fruit and the tree are most likely done. These freezes in the 80's put lots of people out of business as many lost whole grooves.
Quoting dfwWxDude:
At what point do you lose the trees too?

My uncle had an orange grove wiped out, trees and all, in Plaquemines Parish LA, in the late 80's Artic blast ('88 was it?). Took 5 years to get back to producing fruit again.


24 or lower for 4 hours or more then tree and fruit are done.
Quoting dfwWxDude:
At what point do you lose the trees too?

My uncle had an orange grove wiped out, trees and all, in Plaquemines Parish LA, in the late 80's Artic blast ('88 was it?). Took 5 years to get back to producing fruit again.


The citrus groves are sprayed with water to protect the fruit during severe hard freezes. If too much ice accumulates for a prolonged period of time, that is when the tree branches can get damaged or destroyed due to the weight of the ice.

Or even if oranges are exposed directly to prolonged temps in the 20s, they can freeze completely and the tree branches can't hold them that way as well.
I have feeling that after next week that cold wx maybe hard to come by in the Deep South as it looks like the Southern Branch is finally going to get active. The good thing is as that happens FL should see rain on a more regular basis and cold wx will be bottled up to the north. Dec. of 2000 was like this then in Jan and Feb of 2001 it was warm with most of Feb in 2001 in the 80's.
Quoting unf97:


The citrus groves are sprayed with water to protect the fruit during severe hard freezes. If too much ice accumulates for a prolonged period of time, that is when the tree branches can get damaged or destroyed due to the weight of the ice.


Ice or not if temps get into the low 20's or upper teens then the trees are lost as the key temp is 24 anything lower for 4 hours or more will kill or damage the citrus trees.
well lets hope it is no lower then 24
Quoting Jeff9641:


24 or lower for 4 hours or more then tree and fruit are done.

Thanks for the info! Checked Gainesville, forecast low of 20 on Tuesday morning, ouch! Not sure where all the oranges are grown in FL though.
Light to moderate snow heading into Montgomery, AL right now.
Quoting dfwWxDude:

Thanks for the info! Checked Gainesville, forecast low of 20 on Tuesday morning, ouch! Not sure where all the oranges are grown in FL though.


Ocala South.
Well, I stand to be corrected I guess. I visited a grove down in Winter Haven some years back and I was told by one of the owners down there that the critical temperature was 28 degrees or lower for a minumum of 4-6 hours can cause some major problems.

No matter how you decipher it, it is going to get brutally cold next week and I hope for the best for those folks down the state preparing to save their crops.
Quoting ILwthrfan:


I wouldn't put anything into any of the forcasts other than it will get cold. Storm track won't be at a higher confidence until the storm actually gets sampled. Many unknowns. GFS model is spittin out anywhere from 4 - 10 inches from south central Illinois east northeast into northwest Ohio.

06Z monday gfs snowfall forecast


00Z monday gfs snowfall forecast



hmmmm, who knows then. either a decent snowfall or a rain event
Montgomery is about to get a decent snow anytime now.
Quoting Jeff9641:
I have feeling that after next week that cold wx maybe hard to come by in the Deep South as it looks like the Southern Branch is finally going to get active. The good thing is as that happens FL should see rain on a more regular basis and cold wx will be bottled up to the north. Dec. of 2000 was like this then in Jan and Feb of 2001 it was warm with most of Feb in 2001 in the 80's.
ya warmer than normal with cold tryin to push down expect severe season to be strong this year coming
Quoting Jeff9641:
I have feeling that after next week that cold wx maybe hard to come by in the Deep South as it looks like the Southern Branch is finally going to get active. The good thing is as that happens FL should see rain on a more regular basis and cold wx will be bottled up to the north. Dec. of 2000 was like this then in Jan and Feb of 2001 it was warm with most of Feb in 2001 in the 80's.


I like the sound of that.
Does some one have a link to the latest gfs loop i have a feeling that cold front in the gulf will bring us rain . The forcaster says it is a dry cold front
Quoting Neapolitan:
If you live in peninsular Florida, you might want to catch the launch of the Falcon 9/Dragon spacecraft in less than 20 minutes. If it goes up as planned, the crystal-clear skies should make it visible over a very wide area, even though it's small and should be moving very rapidly...

Info here: http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/002/status.html


I stepped outside here in Jax and saw it launch. Thankfully it launched when it did because now we have high altitude clouds. It wasnt as bright as the space shuttle but it was worth watching.
I never thought i'd be going on an Alaskan cruise out of Tampa, but apparently next Monday night when we leave its going to be below Freezing. Heck we're going to the caribbean and i cant find a forecast next week for any Temps higher than 75. Doh!
Quoting Neapolitan:

Yeah. Cold temps in winter are pretty rare; they should move the conferences to summer to help convince contrarians... ;-)




Yes they are, when they are are record setting in Cancun!

Area forecast discussion
National Weather Service New Orleans la
1118 am CST Wednesday Dec 8 2010



Long term... models are coming into better agreement on handling next Arctic airmass and associated cyclone moving across the central U.S. This weekend.

European model (ecmwf) model showing a full latitude trough digging along the Mississippi Valley and channeling a 1044mb surface high out of lower Canada. The GFS is similar though weaker surface high at 1041mb.

Despite this subtle difference...global models showing a nearly straight flow from Hudson's Bay to Gulf of Mexico Sunday night into Monday morning.

This should be a very cold and windy period with hard freeze and freeze warnings likely warranted once again.

Air mass moderation does not really begin until Tuesday with a warming trend anticipated as upper ridging becomes established middle of next week.
Quoting Jax82:


I stepped outside here in Jax and saw it launch. Thankfully it launched when it did because now we have high altitude clouds. It wasnt as bright as the space shuttle but it was worth watching.

Yeah, the flame wasn't bright at all from my vantage point (163 miles SW of the launch site), but the smoke was. Considering the meaning of the launch for the future of commercial spaceflight, though, it was cool to watch.
Quoting Jeff9641:


Ice or not if temps get into the low 20's or upper teens then the trees are lost as the key temp is 24 anything lower for 4 hours or more will kill or damage the citrus trees.
Specifically, the danger is due to the fact that at such temperatures, the trunks actually freeze, killing the tree.

Heh!!
It is very strange, for me, to check a Tropical Weather blog, and see just about all the comments discussing snow and freezing temps....

Who turned the Cold-Blast on again ???
Some Strange Northerner, with a warped sense of humor, is my guess.

Here, it is still raining.
But the rain is nice and warm LOL !
Gators Coach Urban Meyer Resigning

News Conference Scheduled At 6 p.m
Edinburgh, Scotland did not set a new all time record low last night, although it was close.  They did get down to 3.2 F, or -16.0 C but the all time record is -17.4 C / 0.7 F.  So it was close, but not quite there.   Temperature observations in Edinburgh began in the 1650s, with fairly continuous records beginning in the 1740s, with continuously observed thermometer observation beginning in the 1860s. 

What I mean by 'fairly continuous' observations beginning in the 1740s is that temperatures were recorded each hour.  So of course temps could fall or rise somewhat in the middle of each hour from the hourly observation report.

Of course, thermometers may also have been inaccurate that long ago, and how thermometers of that time were placed is partly unknown.  During part of that time, readings were taken from a thermometer hanging under a tree, which means that readings were probably too warm at night.  Found another reference to a thermometer being stuck to the ground, one foot above, which would observe nighttime lows that are too cold, by today's placement standards for an official observing thermometer.
The record low for Port of Spain is 15.6 C / 60.1 F, from a site vouched for by weatherhistorian.
Quoting pottery:
Heh!!
It is very strange, for me, to check a Tropical Weather blog, and see just about all the comments discussing snow and freezing temps....

Who turned the Cold-Blast on again ???
Some Strange Northerner, with a warped sense of humor, is my guess.

Here, it is still raining.
But the rain is nice and warm LOL !

Gators are going to lose a lot of recruits because of Urban Myer leaving.
Quoting Jeff9641:
Gators Coach Urban Meyer Resigning

News Conference Scheduled At 6 p.m


Wa-wa-waaaaaa. As for the temperature subject you mentioned, the local met said that there would be mid-20's for lows out here this coming Tuesday where I live. Highs would struggle to reach 55 Monday.
Quoting Jeff9641:
Gators are going to lose a lot of recruits because of Urban Myer leaving.


They get most of them from down here in South Florida. A lot of them will be either going to The U or FSU.
Quoting caneswatch:


Wa-wa-waaaaaa. As for the temperature subject you mentioned, the local met said that there would be mid-20's for lows out here this coming Tuesday where I live. Highs would struggle to reach 55 Monday.


Yup very impressive cold blast coming this way.
Quoting Jeff9641:


Yup very impressive cold blast coming this way.


Especially for this time of year. The earliest I remember seeing 20's here was New Year's 2001 or so.
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
The record low for Port of Spain is 15.6 C / 60.1 F, from a site vouched for by weatherhistorian.


Wow!!
Thanks for that, and the link.
There was a reading of 15.0 C / 59.0 in a place called Penal in Trinidad and Tobago.  I'm guessing the mountains can get down into the lower 50s.

The lowest reading I found in the lesser Antilles is 41 F (5 C)  on the top of Soufriere.
I have a question.......i live in SE Georgia and i have 6 outside dogs. Four of my dogs are in the back fenced in yard.....with 3 doghouses....a lean to made of plastic and the back porch deck is wrapped in plastic. The lean to is off the overhang of the house and angles down to the ground. They have blankets...........do you guys think they'll be ok with next weeks blast of colder air?
From a link posted above on WU, LONDON (Dec. 8) -- Libya threatened "harsh" and "immediate" consequences for U.K. commercial interests and British diplomats if Lockerbie bomber Abdel Basset al-Megrahi died in prison...Link
Quoting Jeff9641:
Montgomery is about to get a decent snow anytime now.


None of it is hitting the ground. Lagrange, GA is under the heaviest of the "snow" right now and it's just cloudy there right now. Here in Macon, GA we are under blue but nothing is at the surface.
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
There was a reading of 15.0 C / 59.0 in a place called Penal in Trinidad and Tobago.  I'm guessing the mountains can get down into the lower 50s.

The lowest reading I found in the lesser Antilles is 41 F (5 C)  on the top of Soufriere.

Checked 'weatherhistorian' blog....
where are you finding this info?

Penal is in the south of the Island, not far from the sea, low elevation.
I find that reading suspect, personally.
In the Northern Range, Max elevation 3024', I have no doubt the temps will get down to the lower 50's as you say.
What did you do with your dogs when it was really cold for so long last January?  My guess would be to do now what you did then, if they were fine last year.
Quoting swampdawg:
I have a question.......i live in SE Georgia and i have 6 outside dogs. Four of my dogs are in the back fenced in yard.....with 3 doghouses....a lean to made of plastic and the back porch deck is wrapped in plastic. The lean to is off the overhang of the house and angles down to the ground. They have blankets...........do you guys think they'll be ok with next weeks blast of colder air?

Pottery, here is the site that weatherhistorian vouched for

The Soufriere reading is not on that site, but I have seen it referred to and I am looking for it.
113. eddye
hey caneswatch u live in miami and where did u look up this
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
What did you do with your dogs when it was really cold for so long last January?  My guess would be to do now what you did then, if they were fine last year.


Last year i had made them a hut on the carport with blankets but i've since had to fence them up because of a neighbor complaining that one of his ducks went missing......sigh........so i'm forced to keep them locked up all day while i'm at work.
I just wonder.....even with lean to's and huts and blankets........how cold is finally TOO cold for the dogs.........i worry about this every year.
Quoting eddye:
hey caneswatch u live in miami and where did u look up this


No, and it was on my local news.
I can't find the reference to 5 C at the top of La Grande Soufriere when I looked at where I thought the reference was, so I'm letting that go.

It would be cool to have a weather observatory on the top of Pico Duarte in the Dominincan Republic and see how cold it can get there.
Quoting swampdawg:
I just wonder.....even with lean to's and huts and blankets........how cold is finally TOO cold for the dogs.........i worry about this every year.


Well if it's 15 to 18 which is expected you may just have frozen dogs by the time you wake up so i would say bring them in unless you want them a frozen dog cube.
119. eddye
jeff 9641 can u tell me the latest with the cold air next week for south florida and why dosent when i type my zip code it dosent show it yet
I'd bring em in for the night then, if it was forecast to get into the teens. Since they are not used to it.  Might be a pain since they are not indoor dogs, but if it's just one night I would say deal with it---don't want frostbite on their ears!


Definitely bring them in if what this site says comes to pass.
Quoting swampdawg:
I just wonder.....even with lean to's and huts and blankets........how cold is finally TOO cold for the dogs.........i worry about this every year.


Or you can just take them to your vets to be boarded.
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Or you can just take them to your vets to be boarded.


LOL!I know right!
As long as they are healthy, not too young or too old and you can get them off the ground and out of the wind, they'll be fine. Worry isn't worth the time to do it though, so if you have any doubt, bring them in...
124. eddye
jeff wat does the latest gfs show
Quoting eddye:
jeff 9641 can u tell me the latest with the cold air next week for south florida and why dosent when i type my zip code it dosent show it yet
Most likely it'll be below freezing in the Miami area.
Quoting pottery:
Heh!!
It is very strange, for me, to check a Tropical Weather blog, and see just about all the comments discussing snow and freezing temps....

Who turned the Cold-Blast on again ???
Some Strange Northerner, with a warped sense of humor, is my guess.

Here, it is still raining.
But the rain is nice and warm LOL !


Oops. Sorry bout that. Someone put the big red button in front of me after I had been at the family Christmas party. And you know about Christmas parties. It was just a mistake. Honest.
Quoting Jeff9641:


LOL!I know right!


It's common sense, especially down here. Cover your plants and bring in the pets. Everyone should know to do that, it really shouldn't be a question.
128. eddye
below freezing 32
If the boarding facility isn't filled up by other people thinking the same thing.  Maybe best to call them today and reserve places for your dogs.
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Or you can just take them to your vets to be boarded.

Quoting caneswatch:


It's common sense, especially down here. Cover your plants and bring in the pets. Everyone should know to do that, it really shouldn't be a question/


Zactly.
Hey Yall......Just got the word that temps in Tallahassee may drop down to around 11 degrees next Monday night.........Almost makes me want to move back to South Florida....I thought that La Nina winters were supposed to be milder for the SE or did the Earth suddenly "tilt"... :)
Ah it's disappointing that there's a giant potent blue blob in the south that's actually pretty intensely blue in some areas, but no snow is hitting the ground.
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
Oh, chill out weathermanwannabe ;)


I just did standing outside of work getting some "fresh air"......... :)
Could be worse, I see the all time record for Tallahassee is -2 F.
Quoting Jeff9641:


LOL!I know right!


LOL......ya i know what it's like to try and load 6 full grown, 50-90 lb. dogs into the back of my truck (which they are not to accustomed to riding in).....and just dropping them off at the boarding house.......LOL...i know, right?
All time low for West Palm Beach was 24 degrees back in 1894. The low I see forecasted is going to be awfully close to breaking it.
Quoting caneswatch:


It's common sense, especially down here. Cover your plants and bring in the pets. Everyone should know to do that, it really shouldn't be a question.


Uh, ya, i know to do that........i was just trying to get some feedback......
Sorry gang, long time lurker, short time poster............how does one delete a post?
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
Could be worse, I see the all time record for Tallahassee is -2 F.


Yup.....I've been here 11 years now and the lowest so for for me was 17 a few years ago on a Sat morning....I am just upset that my weekend fishing plans for the next two weeks might have to take a backseat due to the very low temps (I wadefish for trout and reds) unless I purchase a wetsuit....I hope that this means that real Spring will come early in March after our usual coldest month in February....Stay warm everyone and take all proper precautions with your pets and plants next week in North Florida.
To the people who gave me heartfelt answers and advice.....i thank you. to the rest of you with the smart @$$ comments........no thanx.........LOL, I know right?!!
go to modify comment and back over it till it's blank and submit.  That blanks the post out, but it still shows that you posted.  But there's nothing in it.
Quoting swampdawg:


LOL......ya i know what it's like to try and load 6 full grown, 50-90 lb. dogs into the back of my truck (which they are not to accustomed to riding in).....and just dropping them off at the boarding house.......LOL...i know, right?


Don't know what your breeds are, but here is an article for you.
Quoting swampdawg:


LOL......ya i know what it's like to try and load 6 full grown, 50-90 lb. dogs into the back of my truck (which they are not to accustomed to riding in).....and just dropping them off at the boarding house.......LOL...i know, right?


But you don't need to drop them off at a boarding house, you can bring them in your own house, unless you want what Jeff said would happen. I mean c'mon, they're pets and they're just like we are when it comes to the cold.
Ok, will remember going forward, thanks for the tip!
Quoting SuperYooper:


Don't know what your breeds are, but here is an article for you.

Thanx for that......
Quoting swampdawg:


Uh, ya, i know to do that........i was just trying to get some feedback......


Seriously, if there was even a thought that you were going to keep your dogs outside in that kind of cold, even with blankets, is absolutely just flat out wrong. No pet could survive it.
Yeah I don't think the forecast has yet to reflect the GFS temperature estimates for the Fort Walton Beach, Fl/Pensacola,Fl/Mobile, Al area yet. All this speculation of the coldest temperatures of the year yet today's high of only 41 and lows in the low 20s tonight is several degrees colder for what they expect on Monday night. I wonder what gives and when they will up date their temperature charts (NOAA and Accuweather). Heck, usually bullish Accuweather is still being conservative for my general area.
152. Jax82
Glad we are getting all this cold air in now, i want to be in a bathing suit new years day :)
NEXT WEEK AROUND -10F FOR THE NORTHEAST ON TUSEDAY NIGHT THAT VERY COLD WEATHER.
Intellicast is currently giving the following snow chances for these Florida cities over the next 10 days:

Miami: 0%
Daytona: 1%
Tampa: 2%
Jacksonville: 3%
Pensacola: 3%
Lake City: 4%
Orlando: 4%
Tallahassee: 9%

And these--
New Orleans, LA: 0%
Mobile, AL: 5%
Savannah, GA: 8%
Valdosta, GA: 12%
Macon, GA: 12%

Yikes...
Frost this morning in South Dade. Ice on the windshield of the car when I went to work this morning, which is not normal. Crops in the redlands (deep South Miami-Dade County) were frosted.

I see another blast is coming this weekend. Could be a record breaking cold winter for us down here. I may have to find an ice scraper if this keeps up.

Strange how they forecast a higher probability in Orlando over Pensacola and Jacksonville.
Here is the new Florida Chamber of Commerce commercial.

Caption: Come to sunny Florida and frolick on our snow-capped beaches and build you own snowman.

NEW YORK -- The division-leading New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers and Atlanta Falcons, and the second-place New York Jets can clinch playoff berths this weekend.

NFL Playoff Picture 2010
Would your team be in or out of the playoffs if the season ended today? The Patriots (10-2) would do so simply with a victory over the Chicago Bears. The Patriots also would get in if the Miami Dolphins (6-6) and Jacksonville Jaguars (7-5) both lose or tie, or if the Dolphins and Indianapolis Colts (6-6) both lose or tie.

The Steelers (9-3) need a variety of scenarios, all of them requiring a win over the Cincinnati Bengals except one, in which a tie and losses or ties by the Dolphins, Oakland Raiders (6-6) and San Diego Chargers (6-6), and an Indianapolis loss would do.

The Falcons must beat the Carolina Panthers and have any two of the Giants (8-4), Philadelphia Eagles (8-4) and Green Bay Packers lose (8-4). A Falcons tie and losses by the Giants, Eagles, Packers and a loss or tie by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (7-5) also would work for Atlanta.

The Jets need a win over the Dolphins and losses or ties by the Chargers and Jaguars, or Chargers and Colts. A Jets tie and losses by San Diego and Indianapolis, plus a loss or tie by Oakland would do it, too.

Quoting Grothar:
Here is the new Florida Chamber of Commerce commercial.

Caption: Come to sunny Florida and frolick on our snow-capped beaches and build you own snowman.



And don't forget the ice scraper.
Oh lord.I can see it next week on the blog here's what you floridians are going to possibly say..(I'm freezing it's 55 degrees outside!!).And us northerns are just going to be luaghing.Oh I'm defintally going to be on the blog next week!!.If theirs one thing I've learned It's that Floridians and cold,don't get along.
Doometh by cold in theory,..

The Oranges will be silently screaming,..

.."The Horror,the Horror"...
Quoting washingtonian115:
Oh lord.I can see it next week on the blog here's what you floridians are going to possibly say..(I'm freezing it's 55 degrees outside!!).And us northerns are just going to be luaghing.Oh I'm defintally going to be on the blog next week!!.If theirs one thing I've learned It's that Floridians and cold,don't get along.


No not really, it gets a lot colder in Florida then you think, I had to scrape a layer of ice off my window this morning, and not too far north of here the low was 22, probably colder than where you live even though your farther north lol.

Believe it or not, but the ground in Florida is more efficient at removing heat than many places further north, so when cold air masses slide in here, it can get very very cold at night.

Also, I don't complain over high temperatures of 55 degrees, I think it feels great and I wish we had these temperatures a lot more this time of year.

Thankfully so far it may turn out be below normal winter like last winter. I love the warm weather of spring and summer, but its booring to have 70's and 80's all year long, I don't get some of my friends are complaining and would rather have more 80's in december and january. Yuck!!

Highs in the 40's and 50's and lows in the 30's and 20's is perfect winter weather if you ask me, I love this.
Quoting Jedkins01:


No not really, it gets a lot colder in Florida then you think, I had to scrape a layer of ice off my window this morning, and not too far north of here the low was 22, probably colder than where you live even though your farther north lol.

Believe it or not, but the ground in Florida is more efficient at removing heat than many places further north, so when cold air masses slide in here, it can get very very cold at night.

Also, I don't complain over high temperatures of 55 degrees, I think it feels great and I wish we had these temperatures a lot more this time of year.

Thankfully so far it may turn out be below normal winter like last winter. I love the warm weather of spring and summer, but its booring to have 70's and 80's all year long, I don't get some of my friends are complaining and would rather have more 80's in december and january. Yuck!!

Highs in the 40's and 50's and lows in the 30's and 20's is perfect winter weather if you ask me, I love this.


To add to that. I don't think many Northerners realize that Florida's climate is much more dynamic than they think. For instance, its pretty for highs in the middle 50s in the Panhandle in the middle of Winter with lows close to freezing. We do not have the 70 or 80 degree whether that Southern and Central Florida has up here in the Panhandle.
Quoting Neapolitan:
Intellicast is currently giving the following snow chances for these Florida cities over the next 10 days:

Miami: 0%
Daytona: 1%
Tampa: 2%
Jacksonville: 3%
Pensacola: 3%
Lake City: 4%
Orlando: 4%
Tallahassee: 9%

And these--
New Orleans, LA: 0%
Mobile, AL: 5%
Savannah, GA: 8%
Valdosta, GA: 12%
Macon, GA: 12%

Yikes...


Here in Macon, GA it actually started snowing now. Look it up on TWC. It's extremely light though.
The local TV weatherman has put out a derecho watch for the weekend. I wonder what that is?
Quoting supercoachdave:
Strange how they forecast a higher probability in Orlando over Pensacola and Jacksonville.

They have a 0% chance for NOLA, too, so I guess they expect a lobe of cold, moist air to shoot right down the spine of Florida. Even Okeechobee, which sits at a latitude hundreds of miles farther south than NOLA, currently has a 1% chance.
Hurricane-related story:

Cat Returns Home 5 Years After Hurricane Katrina

Everybody say, "Awwwwwwww..." ;-)
171. DDR
None stop rain here in Trinidad
4 inches here since yesterday
Many places are under water
When will this end???

The Trinidad and Tobago Meteorological Services is
issuing a riverine flood alert for Trinidad having
regard to the occurrence of persistent rainfall
activity over the last 18 %u2013 24 hours.
This latest rainfall event began favouring the
northeast sector of Trinidad and has already
emptied considerable precipitation to engineer
riverine floods but isolated to this region.
The center is now shifting with maximum
concentrations eclipsing central Trinidad, parts
of North Trinidad and areas of South Trinidad.
These locations are already estimated to have
received between 50 %u2013 60 millimeters of
rainfall.



The atmospheric dynamics is showing a tendency for
the northern fringes of Inter-Tropical Convergence
Zone (ITCZ) to merge with this quasi-stationary
shear line currently affecting both Trinidad and
Tobago. This possible development together with
an upper level trough and highly supportive upper
level flows may broaden the area of instability to
unleash a new burst of energy capable of producing
significant rainfall overnight into tomorrow.
Conservative estimates are for between 75-100
millimeters of rainfall accumulation.
Quoting Jedkins01:


No not really, it gets a lot colder in Florida then you think, I had to scrape a layer of ice off my window this morning, and not too far north of here the low was 22, probably colder than where you live even though your farther north lol.

Believe it or not, but the ground in Florida is more efficient at removing heat than many places further north, so when cold air masses slide in here, it can get very very cold at night.

Also, I don't complain over high temperatures of 55 degrees, I think it feels great and I wish we had these temperatures a lot more this time of year.

Thankfully so far it may turn out be below normal winter like last winter. I love the warm weather of spring and summer, but its booring to have 70's and 80's all year long, I don't get some of my friends are complaining and would rather have more 80's in december and january. Yuck!!

Highs in the 40's and 50's and lows in the 30's and 20's is perfect winter weather if you ask me, I love this.
I didn't say everyone from florida complains about the cold.Some may love it becuase they are tired of the almost all year round 60+ temps they get.Hmmm I may need to spend probally a whole month in Florida to see how this unusual climate works.
SNOW in MACON right now and accumulating
...Im just sitting here watching the wheel's go round and round,...I really Love to watch them roll"...


WORDS, MUSIC, & PHOTOGRAPHY: John Lennon. The Day the Music Died.
With the recent cold weather and forecasts for more next week, I am not surprised to see that the AGW crowd has finally zipped up. It's hard to preach their theory which is based on falsified data, when the thermometer says 26.
Quoting KerryInNOLA:
With the recent cold weather and forecasts for more next week, I am not surprised to see that the AGW crowd has finally zipped up. It's hard to preach their theory which is based on falsified data, when the thermometer says 26.


You just don't get it - do you. The cold is caused by AGW. Simple. Everything is caused by AGW.
There are so many stories and so many posts the last few days about the brutal cold in south Florida...One thing I do know is this Florida girl froze her buns off.I hate it. I won't mention the "headlight" remarks... This is not the Florida I know in Palm Beach county.
My heater is running 24 hours a day. I saw this freekin' surfer guy this morning trying to ride the waves...NOW THAT is crazy.
Quoting Jeff9641:
SNOW in MACON right now and accumulating


No it's not.. I live in Macon and while TWC has been saying snow for a while, the snow is very limited and light and is not accumulating.
Complete Update

I would ask RTLSNK what the pretty pink and white clouds are suppose to be over his house.... but I am pretty sure it would not be a printable response :)





Patrap........The day the music died was always related to Buddy Holly, but I really wasn't in that era...I was in the 60's hippie era and loved the Fab Four...I remember the Ed Sullivan Show(shoe) when the Beatles appeared in 64...Me and my sister got gooose bumbs and cried...That I will never, ever forget....
Quoting Orcasystems:
Complete Update

I would ask RTLSNK what the pretty pink and white clouds are suppose to be over his house.... but I am pretty sure it would not be a printable response :)







I also live in Macon and I've talked with RTLSNK a few times but yeah just a couple flurries here.
Quoting HurricaneSwirl:


I also live in Macon and I've talked with RTLSNK a few times but yeah just a couple flurries here.


I'm not going to ask him.. he is going to blame KOG and I for it anyway :(
The bigger story is that once we hit around 6PM Sunday, we won't hit a temperature above freezing until late Tuesday, or possibly Wednesday.
Quoting Orcasystems:


I'm not going to ask him.. he is going to blame KOG and I for it anyway :(


Lol. *tiny violin*
Hurrican Swirl...I drove up to see my brother in Ohio over Thanksgiving...I always took the by-pass around Macon ,but this time I stayed on I-75...My ex would have loved it because you have a "Bass Pro Shops"
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
Hurrican Swirl...I drove up to see my brother in Ohio over Thanksgiving...I always took the by-pass around Macon ,but this time I stayed on I-75...My ex would have loved it because you have a "Bass Pro Shops"


Yeah we do haha. The one around here devotes a large portion to boats, which is kind of funny considering we really have no place to put them other than one or two small lakes.
Thanks for adding my photo to your blog Jeff Masters! More snow on the way Thursday night into Friday and an even bigger storm system possible this weekend, I'll be chasing again during one or both of those events depending on how favorable things look.

-CR
Quoting washingtonian115:
Oh lord.I can see it next week on the blog here's what you floridians are going to possibly say..(I'm freezing it's 55 degrees outside!!).And us northerns are just going to be luaghing.Oh I'm defintally going to be on the blog next week!!.If theirs one thing I've learned It's that Floridians and cold,don't get along.


No, that is an exaggeration and an incorrect stereotype.

Don't forget, most of us either came from somewhere with colder winter weather and/or have lived in such areas. Therefore, we hardly think of 55F as either "cold" or for that matter, at all unpleasant.

I in fact long for 55 degree temps. It is the heat and humidity of summer that I could stand to have less of around here.

What you might read on here next week would be things like this:

"It was 15 degrees on my front porch this morning. Brrrr.."

Or, even more likely...

"Does anyone know what our chances are of getting some snow with this next cold outbreak? I am hoping and praying that we will get rewarded with a nice white coating this time around."
Quoting Orcasystems:


I'm not going to ask him.. he is going to blame KOG and I for it anyway :(


i added another stack of 48 to the other 48 if we are to get him it may as well be good

does the one i won't mention like a white christmas or a green christmas
Quoting FLWaterFront:


No, that is an exaggeration and an incorrect stereotype.

Don't forget, most of us either came from somewhere with colder winter weather and/or have lived in such areas. Therefore, we hardly think of 55F as either "cold" or for that matter, at all unpleasant.

I in fact long for 55 degree temps. It is the heat and humidity of summer that I could stand to have less of around here.

What you might read on here next week would be things like this:

"It was 15 degrees on my front porch this morning. Brrrr.."

Or, even more likely...

"Does anyone know what our chances are of getting some snow with this next cold outbreak? I am hoping and praying that we will get rewarded with a nice white coating this time around."

Yes let me chime in here. I love the cold weather we get in florida. Like this morning 22 degrees and lots of frost. looked like it snowed. Only down in fl because this is were my job is at. Now Alaska that sounds like fun.
Quoting HurricaneSwirl:
The bigger story is that once we hit around 6PM Sunday, we won't hit a temperature above freezing until late Tuesday, or possibly Wednesday.

more like wed before warm temps start to rtn also another plains low should be getting its act together by then on the building rtn flow this one should pull up the warm air and establish a zonal flow

inside comment
(thats when fans go down for maintenance)
193. Bonz
This South Floridian is *loving* this weather. Hope we get a cool Christmas Eve this year. **crosses fingers**. If not, at least I got a great lead-up to the holiday. :)
Anybody else in Florida feeling the horror, the Horror, yet?? Thank God for Jeff Masters fishing out the info we've gotten to date on the negative NAO. Why isn't anyone else talking about the sea-ice loss/NAO correlation nationally, or internationally?

I don't know about the rest of my fellow Floridians, but I just moved here a year and a half ago, spent thou$ands on landscape -- trees -- and now am facing a second winter in a row where I could lose all of it. And on a much grander scale, this type of altered climate for the Eastern US and Western Europe has massive financial implications: Heavier use of heating oil, road salt, the destruction to cars and roads from salt and freezing, lost business, lost wages, more debt, strain on power grid, competition for oil, gas and coal, etc.

On the plus side, it looks like I'll be stimulating the economy with a trip to buy a few hundred little lights to string up in my trees, along with a whole buncha blankets!
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:


i added another stack of 48 to the other 48 if we are to get him it may as well be good

does the one i won't mention like a white christmas or a green christmas


I'm glad its warm here.. because its just p*** down rain right now.. The mountains have to be getting hammered with snow
Quoting OrchidGrower:
Anybody else in Florida feeling the horror, the Horror, yet?? Thank God for Jeff Masters fishing out the info we've gotten to date on the negative NAO. Why isn't anyone else talking about the sea-ice loss/NAO correlation nationally, or internationally?

I don't know about the rest of my fellow Floridians, but I just moved here a year and a half ago, spent thou$ands on landscape -- trees -- and now am facing a second winter in a row where I could lose all of it. And on a much grander scale, this type of altered climate for the Eastern US and Western Europe has massive financial implications: Heavier use of heating oil, road salt, the destruction to cars and roads from salt and freezing, lost business, lost wages, more debt, strain on power grid, competition for oil, gas and coal, etc.

On the plus side, it looks like I'll be stimulating the economy with a trip to buy a few hundred little lights to string up in my trees, along with a whole buncha blankets!

Yes i also agree with the plants getting killed every year. This is florida not supose to happen. I also put out the blankets and if it goes below 25 that dont work, so this time i plugged in a little heater and my trees didnt get the frost we had.
Quoting OrchidGrower:
Anybody else in Florida feeling the horror, the Horror, yet?? Thank God for Jeff Masters fishing out the info we've gotten to date on the negative NAO. Why isn't anyone else talking about the sea-ice loss/NAO correlation nationally, or internationally?


Yah, the negative NAO is an important fact that I learned on this blog (cannot remember if it was Doc or somebody else who brought that out though).

I've actually used that in conversations with folks about the cold.

Actually, I like this here in Houston (except the lack of rain). Just above freezing... plants are still doing well and blooming!
For West Palm Beach...not as cold as forecasted earlier today:

COLD WEATHER!!! LOOK AT THE WEATHER MAP!!
Quoting jasoniscoolman2010xo:


Toronto Pearson Int'l Airport
Date: 7:00 PM EST Wednesday 8 December 2010
Condition: Clear
Pressure: 30.09 inches
Tendency: rising
Visibility: 15 miles
Air Quality Health Index: 3

Temperature: 17.8°F
Dewpoint: 7.2°F
Humidity: 63 %
Wind: WNW 16 mph
Wind Chill: 3
Evening All!

No precip of any kind today. Anyone here get flurries around the gulf coast?

What up Orca and KOTG!
Quoting DDR:
None stop rain here in Trinidad
4 inches here since yesterday
Many places are under water
When will this end???

The Trinidad and Tobago Meteorological Services is
issuing a riverine flood alert for Trinidad having
regard to the occurrence of persistent rainfall
activity over the last 18 %u2013 24 hours.
This latest rainfall event began favouring the
northeast sector of Trinidad and has already
emptied considerable precipitation to engineer
riverine floods but isolated to this region.
The center is now shifting with maximum
concentrations eclipsing central Trinidad, parts
of North Trinidad and areas of South Trinidad.
These locations are already estimated to have
received between 50 %u2013 60 millimeters of
rainfall.



The atmospheric dynamics is showing a tendency for
the northern fringes of Inter-Tropical Convergence
Zone (ITCZ) to merge with this quasi-stationary
shear line currently affecting both Trinidad and
Tobago. This possible development together with
an upper level trough and highly supportive upper
level flows may broaden the area of instability to
unleash a new burst of energy capable of producing
significant rainfall overnight into tomorrow.
Conservative estimates are for between 75-100
millimeters of rainfall accumulation.


Yeah, it's been heavy....
I am not sure when these warnings/comments were issued, but over the past 4 hours the weather has cleared a bit (stars are out!!) and unless something changes soon, tomorrow should be a less wet day.

Rivers are overflowing in several areas, and others are at max. right now.
Only minor landslips reported, but if this does not clear out of here soon, we will be in some trouble....
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:


Toronto Pearson Int'l Airport
Date: 7:00 PM EST Wednesday 8 December 2010
Condition: Clear
Pressure: 30.09 inches
Tendency: rising
Visibility: 15 miles
Air Quality Health Index: 3

Temperature: 17.8°F
Dewpoint: 7.2°F
Humidity: 63 %
Wind: WNW 16 mph
Wind Chill: 3


Man, thats cold! We complaining about our lows in the high 20s.
Quoting pottery:


Yeah, it's been heavy....
I am not sure when these warnings/comments were issued, but over the past 4 hours the weather has cleared a bit (stars are out!!) and unless something changes soon, tomorrow should be a less wet day.

Rivers are overflowing in several areas, and others are at max. right now.
Only minor landslips reported, but if this does not clear out of here soon, we will be in some trouble....


Save the Wine!
Quoting doorman79:


Man, thats cold! We complaining about our lows in the high 20s.

17f now going down to a low of 8f or 9f with chills of -5 or -10f depending on winds
Quoting doorman79:


Save the Wine!

Nowhere to store it.
Working on Disposing of it, in the Approved Manner.
"cheers"
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:

17f now going down to a low of 8f or 9f with chills of -5 or -10f depending on winds


How do you keep the inside of a house at 70f in that kind of cold?
This weather is not typical for early December. But it is also not unusual. It is really not a big deal.
Quoting pottery:

Nowhere to store it.
Working on Disposing of it, in the Approved Manner.
"cheers"


Get a tire intertube with an icechest/box tied on it. There you go!
Quoting doorman79:


How do you keep the inside of a house at 70f in that kind of cold?

You burn the furniture ???
Quoting KerryInNOLA:
This weather is not typical for early December. But it is also not unusual. It is really not a big deal.


It is if you don't like it. And by the way, no one here is talking about GW. So either post a good Christmas song or S!@#w off. :)
Quoting pottery:

You burn the furniture ???


Umm! Smores. ;)
Quoting doorman79:


How do you keep the inside of a house at 70f in that kind of cold?
i got 6 gas fire boilers fired up water temp going out is at 180f with a rtn coming back of 110 3 boilers for east side of high rise 3 boilers for west side of the high rise psi is at 30 also have 2 additional boilers for domestic hot water in total 8 boilers in the building internal air temp is kept at 76f inside at all times it cost about $20,000 per month to heat the building in the dead of winter
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
i got 6 gas fire boilers fired up water temp going out is at 180f with a rtn coming back of 110 3 boilers for east side of high rise 3 boilers for west side of the high rise psi is at 30 also have 2 additional boilers for domestic hot water in total 8 boilers in the building internal air temp is kept at 76f inside at all times it cost about $20,000 per month to heat the building in the dead of winter


Do ya'll have people building houses, buildings this time of year. Or does construction kinda stop during the cold snaps?
it keeps going as a matter of fact there is a new high rise going up just up the street they finihed with all the glass two weeks ago so its enclosed now and most companies use portabil heat like propane to heat construction sites
218. DDR
Hi pottery
My feeling is that these rains will continued well into next year.
When the poui trees start to blossom in November,you know the next wet season will start early,strange...
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:
For West Palm Beach...not as cold as forecasted earlier today:


Are the models coming in warmer in the SE?
Quoting doorman79:


It is if you don't like it. And by the way, no one here is talking about GW. So either post a good Christmas song or S!@#w off. :)
I could report you to Admin for rude behavior but I am in the holiday spirit. And your wrong, that's all they were talking about yesterday (GW).
By looking at the models.. I believe much of December will be cold for most of us in the US.. including the south east.. But not as cold as projected to be for monday and into tuesday morning.. But u never know, changes from time to time..

Also the NAM has more rain for the south and southeast and saying the cold blast won't catch up to the rain.. B/c most of the precipitation would be near or ahead of the front that is moving through.. But I believe these models will flip flop back n forth until they get better agreement near friday.. JMO
Quoting DDR:
Hi pottery
My feeling is that these rains will continued well into next year.
When the poui trees start to blossom in November,you know the next wet season will start early,strange...

I am good with that!

In the meantime, the Panama Canal is closed.
Due to heavy rains that have overfilled some of the lakes that make-up the Canal. The Panamanians are dumping water from some of the lakes, in an effort to re-open the Canal.
This will create havoc for Pacific/Atlantic shipping, if the rains dont ease up there.
Quoting TampaFLUSA:

Are the models coming in warmer in the SE?


That might be a possibility. Both NOAA and Accuweather haven't changed their original forecast even after the talks of a major cold spell.

Lord, no GW. There were some good tunes. Here's hoping you like it.

Cheers!



225. DDR
Quoting pottery:

I am good with that!

In the meantime, the Panama Canal is closed.
Due to heavy rains that have overfilled some of the lakes that make-up the Canal. The Panamanians are dumping water from some of the lakes, in an effort to re-open the Canal.
This will create havoc for Pacific/Atlantic shipping, if the rains dont ease up there.

Quoting pottery:

I am good with that!

In the meantime, the Panama Canal is closed.
Due to heavy rains that have overfilled some of the lakes that make-up the Canal. The Panamanians are dumping water from some of the lakes, in an effort to re-open the Canal.
This will create havoc for Pacific/Atlantic shipping, if the rains dont ease up there.

Thanks for that info,i had no idea
That's La nina,rain making monster :S
Dr Gray's 2011 predictions, 17-9-5, normal year, 11-6-2.
Quoting KerryInNOLA:
Dr Gray's 2011 predictions, 17-9-5, normal year, 11-6-2.


See no reason why it won't be an above average year. El Nino is unlikely.
Quoting DDR:


Thanks for that info,i had no idea
That's La nina,rain making monster :S

It's on the BBC website...
finally having the time to come back to weather underground hope to be able to stay for awhile it looks like the east and north east is about to get slammed by a snow storm looking like a repeat of last year
snow picture!!



Dang, almost 7 months before the next Atlantic season, it's nearly the Holiday's, and no humor. Sad.
Quoting pottery:

You burn the furniture ???


I am not sure why Orca is always so worried about snow in Macon, Georgia. I love snow! And I am always prepared for any weather event. Why, with my equipment, I could even clear up 5 feet of snow. :)
New Haven, Connecticut at 9:17pm
26.3 °F Clear Tonight
Mostly clear. Lows around 18. West winds 10 to 15 mph. cold night here!!!
Quoting RTLSNK:


I am not sure why Orca is always so worried about snow in Macon, Georgia. I love snow! And I am always prepared for any weather event. Why, with my equipment, I could even clear up 5 feet of snow. :)

I notice that you have all 5 feet trained to walk into the tractor-bucket too!
Well Done!
But, I have to ask, what kind of animal up there, has 5 feet?
And, did you have to kill it ?

Area forecast discussion
National Weather Service Jackson MS
312 PM CST Wednesday Dec 8 2010


Discussion...focus of this forecast will be on the cold temperatures
tonight...then shift to the weekend when a powerful storm will
develop across the east half of the Continental U.S. And bring winds/rain and
more cold conditions to our region for next week.


Our upper low is exiting the County Warning Area this afternoon and clouds are
dissipating in the wake of the system as subsidence develops. There
is a pesky area of low stratus that is stuck under some sort of
inversion over NE la and the western portion of the County Warning Area. This cloud
deck could play havoc with temperatures overnight if it persists longer
than expected. I'm not sure how it will evolve as model guidance does
not know it exists. My plan is to have it linger into early evening
and dissipate as the subsident flow continues to work on it. This
will result in all of the County Warning Area seeing clear skies overnight which
will result in optimal rad cooling conditions as the surface high
settles over the region. Look for a very cold night with lower 20s
area wide and a few teens possible in the typical cold spots and
outlying areas. A few records may be in jeopardy as temperatures bottom
out. Here is a list of the potential records that may fall: (tvr
24)(gwo 20)(hbg 20).


Look for moderating conditions Thursday into Friday as the surface high shifts
east and return flow develops. Conditions will still remain below
normals on Thursday and Thursday night...but just not as cold as recent days.
Better return flow develops on Friday and the resulting low level
moisture advection will offer a challenging temperature forecast. The GFS shows
warmer low level readings pushing north. However...as this
occurs...low clouds develop and keeps highs from reaching their
potential. The NAM/Euro also indicate low clouds...but mix the
boundary layer better and warm things up several more degrees. Due
to the warm air advection regime...will follow the consensus and use a blend of the
GFS/NAM...which is more in line with the Euro and the previous forecast.


In response to the developing cyclone and deepening upper
trough...warm air advection will increase quite a bit Friday night and offer the
chance of some showers later in the period. Temperatures will also be
tricky as lows will likely be met in the evening or around midnight
before warmer conditions develop toward sunrise as increasing
southerly flow pushes more low level moisture into the County Warning Area.


The main action and forecast impacts will come Sat afternoon into
Sunday. The cyclone that will develop late Sat into Monday will be
quite the system and will likely make headlines as a major storm for
a large portion of the eastern United States. Initially...this
developing system will bring strong southerly winds to our area for
Sat afternoon ahead of the deepening surface low and strong cold front.
Due to the intense dynamics of the system and increasing wind
fields...the risk of strong and severe storms remains a possibility.
The limiting factor will be instability and the details on this will
hopefully become more clear in the next few days. The strong cold
front looks to enter the northwest County Warning Area sometime from late afternoon into
early evening then quickly shift across the County Warning Area overnight. Much
colder conditions will follow this front along with increasing northwest
surface winds as intense pressure rises occur. Conditions sun will be
quite raw with windy conditions and strong cold air advection occurring. Temperatures may
struggle to reach the 40s for some locations and likely hold steady
or fall during the day.


Much colder conditions are expected for Monday into Tuesday as the core of
the Arctic air slides just to the east of the region. Even with
that...we will see enough of this cold air to experience lows in the
lower 20s and highs from the 30s to lower 40s. The potential exists
for even colder readings which may result in hard freeze conditions
for Mon-Tue. The severe weather potential statement will continue to mention these various hazards
for the Sat-Tuesday periods. /Cme/
Quoting pottery:

I notice that you have all 5 feet trained to walk into the tractor-bucket too!
Well Done!
But, I have to ask, what kind of animal up there, has 5 feet?
And, did you have to kill it ?

Well, in the absence of a relevant answer, I will have to surmise that it is either a 4-footed animal, with a spare.
Or perhaps 2 -and- a- half, 2-footed animals. In which case, what happened to the missing half?
Quoting pottery:

Well, in the absence of a relevant answer, I will have to surmise that it is either a 4-footed animal, with a spare.
Or perhaps 2 -and- a- half, 2-footed animals. In which case, what happened to the missing half?


Good evening, Kind Sir.

Did you not notice the imperious sign reading: "No humor posts"?

(chuckling)
evening everybody
Quoting tornadodude:
evening everybody


Good evening.
Good eve and Goodbye for me... I'm off to work.!
Quoting PSLFLCaneVet:


Good evening.


how's the weather?
Quoting pottery:

Well, in the absence of a relevant answer, I will have to surmise that it is either a 4-footed animal, with a spare.
Or perhaps 2 -and- a- half, 2-footed animals. In which case, what happened to the missing half?


Sorry for the delay my good man, I was off looking through my "My Photos" section for the photo of the big kid playing in the snow from Feb of this year here in Macon. The answer to your question is simple. My two grandchildren were too small to build a snowman, so we just built snow feet. We got to five when grandma called us inside for hot chocolate and cookies. Well, what could I do? We went inside of course. :)



Sorry Doug, 53.8 here.
Quoting tornadodude:
evening everybody


evening Tornadodude.. its 34 and feel like 27 and dropping in the panhandle of FL.. How u doing??
I hope the Florida cold wave for next week does back off from some of the model predictions.  Citrus farmers have a hard time as it is.
Quoting tornadodude:


how's the weather?


It never got to our predicted low, yesterday or today. I think the land mass this time of year moderates the air mass, more than some forecasters think. It happens pretty much every year.
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
I hope the Florida cold wave for next week does back off from some of the model predictions.  Citrus farmers have a hard time as it is.


Good evening, Dover. Agreed.
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
I hope the Florida cold wave for next week does back off from some of the model predictions.  Citrus farmers have a hard time as it is.


The models have been stuck to it like glue. It doesn't look to good for them.

Area forecast discussion
National Weather Service New Orleans la
355 PM CST Wednesday Dec 8 2010



This weekend...the words of the weekend are...Arctic cold front.

Friday night a short wave will work southeast out of Alberta Canada. This will dig into
the middle MS valley region and reinforce the l/west trough over much of the Continental U.S.. at the same time cyclogenesis will take place over middle MS/OH/TN valleys.
This surface low will move east while the l/west trough will amplify. This will drive a strong cold front through the region early Sun morning with much colder air behind it. By Sun night/early
Monday the middle level flow will become nearly with a strong Arctic high working due south from Manitoba and we will basically have unrestricted flow from the north.


What is all of this going to do for our forecast area?
First it is going to increase the rain chances for late Sat and Sun morning. The amount of forcing with the front and trough should easily squeeze out some rain. We are not expecting a lot of rain but we should have no problem measuring at just about everywhere.
With that I have greatly increased Sat night probability of precipitation and probably could go higher with likely probability of precipitation but will hold close to the new 12z mex at this time.

The other and bigger issue immediately will be winds.

On the backside of this front the winds are going to howl.

A pressure gradient of 7-8mb is being advertised by both the GFS and European model (ecmwf) over our County Warning Area. By 15-18z winds will be unidirectional from the surface to 700 mb with 850 mb and 700 mb winds possibly up to 50-55kts at those levels.
There will also be very strong cold air advection occurring at both 850 mb and 700 mb and combine this with clearing skies and 6hr pressure rises of 5-7mb and the recipe is practically perfect for a very windy day.
Sustained winds over the land areas will likely be 20-25mph especially on the southshore with winds gusts possibly up to 40mph at times.

Winds should finally begin to relax as we head into the evn and this will then lead US to
the other problem...cold temperatures. Much colder air is going to work into the area with h925 temperatures of -5 to -6c and -5 to -7c at 850 mb
possible. In addition to the cold air...much drier air will be working in with dewpoints possibly dropping into single digits.
Skies will be clear Sun night and this could set the stage for the coldest night of the season.
Now winds will likely still be up especially just above the surface and this would hinder radiational cooling issues but this is not going to be a radiational cooling night and mostly a cold air advection event.
Lows could dip into the teens across the northern portions of our County Warning Area but right now we will hold onto lower 20s in the north and in the upper 20s to lower 30s in extreme southeast la.
I'm gonna look at the other main cold wave for Florida in the first half of December, Dec 13, 1962 BRB
Quoting FLPandhandleJG:


evening Tornadodude.. its 34 and feel like 27 and dropping in the panhandle of FL.. How u doing??


hey man, sounds chilly!

im great, its about 15 degrees, chance of snow tomorrow night, then rain saturday changing to snow that night, decent accumulations possible
Lowest temperature in Florida cities in December 1962 cold wave.

Daytona Beach, 21
Fort Myers, 26
Gainesville, 13
Jacksonville, 12
Key West 46
Miami 35
Orlando, 20
Pensacola, 11
Tallahassee, 10
Tampa 18*
Vero Beach 25
West Palm Beach 30

All lows on December 13, 1962.

Tampa's 18 degree reading is lowest on record there.

Somehow, Miami seems the likeliest place to be colder than in Dec 1962.

If they were on the same day instead of the 14th this year, Florida could have crazy cold readings without setting any records!  But that's not going to happen.



Good Evening PSL  I just noticed your greeting.
Quoting tornadodude:


hey man, sounds chilly!

im great, its about 15 degrees, chance of snow tomorrow night, then rain saturday changing to snow that night, decent accumulations possible


I hear ya.. I would love to c some snow down here again.. Its a great sight but i know its not good for our crops and all.. But the models still keep flip flopping.. The Nam saying more rain then snow.. The Cold artic air supposed to catch on real fast but the nam says the moisture would be near or in front of the front.. But definitely feel Cold air a lil later tho.. But other models disagree have L lil lower then the other runs.. But the NAM has L lil more North..

But either way u will get something, most likely snow..
hey guys what's up its really getting chilly for some reason we had the A/C on I came outside and it's cooler came back in and it's warmer talk to me what goin on and what about you
Quoting DontAnnoyMe:



Nice! How's it going, DAM?
im out guys, be back in the morning

Quoting PSLFLCaneVet:



Nice! How's it going, DAM?


Evenin', hoser. ;-)

imperious: congrats again.

Quoting tornadodude:
im out guys, be back in the morning



haha.. u have a good night.. probably b back on tomorrow..
Quoting tornadodude:


hey man, sounds chilly!

im great, its about 15 degrees, chance of snow tomorrow night, then rain saturday changing to snow that night, decent accumulations possible


Didn't see ya drop by TD, how are you?
Quoting caneswatch:


Didn't see ya drop by TD, how are you?


im great, you?

sorry but im really tired, gotta get some sleep
Quoting tornadodude:
im out guys, be back in the morning



Haha that storm split up actually happens a lot here. Must be the topography.
Quoting tornadodude:


im great, you?

sorry but im really tired, gotta get some sleep


Not too bad.

I have to wait to get shut eye lol
The coldest official reading in South Florida appears to be 19 at LaBelle, Florida, in Hendry County., looking through the Miami weather office.   I don't think anyplace in the Key West jurisdiction has been lower than that.
night everyone lol
Quoting DontAnnoyMe:


Evenin', hoser. ;-)

imperious: congrats again.




LMAO, glad you liked it.

Thank you.
night TD.

Night John Boy,

Night Grandpa

A crisp 14 degrees right now, with the low expected to be 10 here in Saratoga Springs, NY. Tomorrow night is supposed to be 4! That's cold.
Quoting Patrap:
night TD.

Night John Boy,

Night Grandpa



Night Grandpa. LOL.
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
i got 6 gas fire boilers fired up water temp going out is at 180f with a rtn coming back of 110 3 boilers for east side of high rise 3 boilers for west side of the high rise psi is at 30 also have 2 additional boilers for domestic hot water in total 8 boilers in the building internal air temp is kept at 76f inside at all times it cost about $20,000 per month to heat the building in the dead of winter


For those in FL... how about $20 a month?

I heat my home with water in Houston TX. I love this early cold since I can calibrate my heating. When last year there were articles about folks being mad about 250 heating bills, I was mad at $50....

I was using solar (the backup stank and there were serious safety issues... the company that made the system did get busted recently by the DOE on 1970 era efficiency laws) to heat the house. $50... too much.

I have a condensing boiler (otherwise known as a on demand hybrid) now. The thing ROCKS. I am on track for $20 a month for heating bills.

Old house doesn't pay to retrofit (unless you have installed solar and found your carbon footprint to be increased by it... not to mention the safety issues).

For new homes

1) No furnace. One less appliance (heat pumps are good for the north, not the south). There are implications for insulation of the ductwork.
2) Cost is very little over a normal tankless (pressure drops kill you in the normal tankless... and cannot do recirc. Am not there yet on whether recirc a good idea or not).

Perhaps a bit selfish, but I love this early cold since I can analyze the heating system!
I wonder if we will break any records here in the US Virgin Islands? I believe that our current record low is 67f. Don't forget if it gets too cold, you can always come vist St Croix, United States Virgin Islands and not even need a passport :)

G'night, people.


It looks like models have modified quite a bit on the projected cold wave. Weather.com now calling for 26/51 on the coldest day (23/46 forecast last night). I figured as much, since even if the forecast for low 20s continued, with the extensive urban heat island effect, the major cities in Central Florida would be hard pressed to get into the low 20s. Based on the last 5 years or so, I'd say a forecast of 26 for Orlando equals 28-30F at the airports.
Quoting EnergyMoron:


heat pumps are good for the north, not the south


?

Heat pumps are rather inefficient when it's below 35F unless they are dual fuel. And heat pumps are very efficient coolers.
Quoting PSLFLCaneVet:

G'night, people.


Just passing through here and seen the Metallica video, they are my favorite band and you indeed have good taste. Dream of weather!
Quoting EnergyMoron:


For those in FL... how about $20 a month?

I heat my home with water in Houston TX. I love this early cold since I can calibrate my heating. When last year there were articles about folks being mad about 250 heating bills, I was mad at $50....

I was using solar (the backup stank and there were serious safety issues... the company that made the system did get busted recently by the DOE on 1970 era efficiency laws) to heat the house. $50... too much.

I have a condensing boiler (otherwise known as a on demand hybrid) now. The thing ROCKS. I am on track for $20 a month for heating bills.

Old house doesn't pay to retrofit (unless you have installed solar and found your carbon footprint to be increased by it... not to mention the safety issues).

For new homes

1) No furnace. One less appliance (heat pumps are good for the north, not the south). There are implications for insulation of the ductwork.
2) Cost is very little over a normal tankless (pressure drops kill you in the normal tankless... and cannot do recirc. Am not there yet on whether recirc a good idea or not).

Perhaps a bit selfish, but I love this early cold since I can analyze the heating system!


Major props! I live in Indiana, in a all electric house. I've bought all these energy efficient gizmo's and I'm lucky if it doesn't cost me at least $450 a month to heat my 1700 sq.ft. home in the winter months. That's with 2 rooms kinda not in use for the most part (winter months). I don't have the means for solar anything at the moment but roundly applause those that do, and do it.
BTW, Accuweather says my area will get 10-15" of the white stuff Saturday night. I figure 6" is a safer bet. I'm thrilled!!
I'll be working up a blog tomorrow for the upcoming snowstorm for Central Indiana (Muncie-Kokomo-Indianapolis area). Forecasts are all over the place, and the N.W.S. out of Indianapolis is very hesitant to make a call. If you live in the region, come get yet another prognostication for this impending event... Hopefully I'll have it up by 2pm est.
Sorry. A semi global warming post as I sit in bed with some sort of flu:

the point of the article is that socialism of one sort or another is coming (regardless of global warming conspiracies, hence why it is semi-GW). Basically, as technological progress eliminates the need for jobs, how is wealth distributed? If a robot can make 10 times as much as I can per hour and never needs sleep, etc., who will offer me a job? If i can't find work, who feeds my family... someone (The state, etc.) has to give me food. The only possible recourse is to live off the grid, back to the cavemen days.

there are a lot of other nightmares associated with this scenario: control of resources by any one group and the rest of us essentially become slaves, or at best living in a murky world of the black economy. Another is what the third world countries fear: the have's create a country club nation with pollution dumped outside of it.

None of these scenarios are likely but the underlying impulses (technology, pollution, loss of jobs, etc.) are real.

Just under 50 degrees here in Naples, headed for weekend highs around 80. Supposed to dip into the mid 30s early next week (and we currently have a 1% chance of snow), but temps will be back to 80 by the following weekend. I know some like the cold, but not me; warm weather means tourists--and, more importantly, tourist dollars. ;-)

At any rate, weather should be fine for the Shark Shootout which starts tomorrow. If you want to know the weather in Naples, just watch NBC or the Golf Channel. ;-)
Morning all. Just amazingly chilly here... 55 at the airport, 47 at the north coast, and 58 currently inside my house...

I'm supposed to leave early today, but I can't get myself to leave the toasty warmth of the bed...
Quoting BahaHurican:
Morning all. Just amazingly chilly here... 55 at the airport, 47 at the north coast, and 58 currently inside my house...

I'm supposed to leave early today, but I can't get myself to leave the toasty warmth of the bed...
Good morning. Surprisingly, Grand Cayman dropped to an overnight low of 58. It is now 60. Another cold front in the GOM moving this way.
Good morning all. I see even people across the Caribbean and Bahamas are complaining about the cold. Quite unusual, if I do say so myself.
yes stormwatcherCI umm may get cooler
yes I am with you on that I really think we down here will be breaking our records this winter season (this is just a feeling I got)
16 deg. in Concord NC at 6:00am. thats freakin cold. I moved from NH to get away from this stuff. It's the end of the world I tell ya
Quoting KoritheMan:
Good morning all. I see even people across the Caribbean and Bahamas are complaining about the cold. Quite unusual, if I do say so myself.
Good morning Kori. It doesn't normally drop down that low down here. Usually to the mid 60's maybe.
Quoting wunderkidcayman:
yes stormwatcherCI umm may get cooler
The cold front that should reach us by the weekend is stronger than the one now so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets colder.
as I said stormwatcherCI I think we may break records this winter season
you know I was praying to god begging for it to get down to th low 40's--upper 30's now maybe kinda woundering why I did that but I will enjoy it as long as possible
296. DDR
Good morning
25 C outside
showers training in on the trades,going to be another wet one.
Wonder how cold it got in the mtns of Cuba...
Wow! 51 at our airport at 7 a.m.!!!
It's reporting colder in Nassau than in Fort Lauderdale!
The Cooling World
Newsweek, April 28, 1975


There are OMINOUS SIGNS that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production – with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps ONLY 10 YEARS FROM NOW. The regions destined to feel its impact are the great wheat-producing lands of Canada and Russia in the North, along with a number of marginally self-sufficient tropical areas – parts of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indochina and Indonesia – where the growing season is dependent upon the rains brought by the monsoon.

The EVIDENCE in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it. In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline by about two weeks since 1950, with a resultant overall loss in grain production estimated at up to 100,000 tons annually. During the same time, the average temperature around the equator has risen by a fraction of a degree – a fraction that in some areas can mean drought and desolation. Last April, in the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars’ worth of damage in 13 U.S. states.

To scientists, these seemingly disparate incidents represent the advance signs of fundamental changes in the world’s weather. The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth’s climate seems to be COOLING DOWN. Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the cooling trend, as well as over its specific impact on local weather conditions. But they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century. If the climatic change is as profound as some of the pessimists fear, the resulting famines could be catastrophic. “A major climatic change would force economic and social adjustments on a worldwide scale,” warns a recent report by the National Academy of Sciences, “because the global patterns of food production and population that have evolved are implicitly dependent on the climate of the present century.”

A survey completed last year by Dr. Murray Mitchell of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reveals a DROP OF A HALF OF A DEGREE in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968. According to George Kukla of Columbia University, satellite photos indicated a sudden, large increase in Northern Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 1971-72. And a study released last month by two NOAA scientists notes that the amount of sunshine reaching the ground in the continental U.S. diminished by 1.3% between 1964 and 1972.

To the layman, the relatively small changes in temperature and sunshine can be highly misleading. Reid Bryson of the University of Wisconsin points out that the Earth’s average temperature during the great Ice Ages was only about seven degrees lower than during its warmest eras – and that the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age average. Others regard the cooling as a reversion to the “little ice age” conditions that brought bitter winters to much of Europe and northern America between 1600 and 1900 – years when the Thames used to freeze so solidly that Londoners roasted oxen on the ice and when iceboats sailed the Hudson River almost as far south as New York City.

Just what causes the onset of major and minor ice ages remains a mystery. “Our knowledge of the mechanisms of climatic change is at least as fragmentary as our data,” concedes the National Academy of Sciences report. “Not only are the basic scientific questions largely unanswered, but in many cases we do not yet know enough to pose the key questions.”

Meteorologists think that they can forecast the short-term results of the return to the norm of the last century. They begin by noting the slight drop in overall temperature that produces large numbers of pressure centers in the upper atmosphere. These break up the smooth flow of westerly winds over temperate areas. The stagnant air produced in this way causes an increase in extremes of local weather such as droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons and even local temperature increases – all of which have a direct impact on food supplies.

“The world’s food-producing system,” warns Dr. James D. McQuigg of NOAA’s Center for Climatic and Environmental Assessment, “is much more sensitive to the weather variable than it was even five years ago.” Furthermore, the growth of world population and creation of new national boundaries make it impossible for starving peoples to migrate from their devastated fields, as they did during past famines.

Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.