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Katrina a Category 1, still incredibly destructive

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 7:27 PM GMT on August 29, 2005

Katrina continues to move northwards and accelerate through Mississippi. Katrina is now a Category 1 hurricane with 95 mph winds, but still causing massive storm surge flooding, tornadoes, wind damage, and rain water flooding. Numerous tornadoes continue to be spawned out of Katrina's spiral bands, and the National Weather Service is also issuing tornado warnings for "destructive winds near 110 mph in the eyewall and inner rain bands of Hurricane Katrina." This is a new warning technique that is used to trigger the emergency response needed for a tornado-like threat. There are not actually tornadoes occurring for these tornado warnings.

Storm surge and rainfall
According to NHC and NWS sources, peak storm surge values were 22 feet in Bay Saint Louis, MS, and 20 feet along many areas of eastern Louisiana. Southwest Lake Pontchartrain received a 10-12 foot storm surge. Mobile Bay received a 9-12 foot storm surge, and Biloxi at least 10 feet. Exact surge heights have been difficult to measure since most of the tide gauges were destroyed by the hurricane. Peak rainfall from Katrina was over the central coast of Mississippi, where radar estimated 8-12 inches fell.

Six weather radars fail
As of 11am EDT, communications with six National Weather Service radar sites failed. No radar information is available from the New Orleans, Lake Charles, and Fort Polk stations in Louisiana, Jackson and Columbus AFB stations in Mississippi, and the Red Bay station in the Florida Panhandle. The NWS offices are still able to send out warnings and forecasts.

What's behind Katrina?
Tropical Depression 13 died early this morning, the victim of wind shear. The remains of TD 13, located about 700 miles east-northeast of the Lesser Antilles, do have the potential to re-develop into a depression later in the week as they move northwest over the open ocean.

A new tropical wave near 10N 35W is large, well-organized, and has developed a circulation. I expect this wave will become a tropical depression in the next day or two as it moves west-northwest towards the Leeward Islands.

Dr. Jeff Masters

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Change subject when you are wrong! Nice try.
squam...not rhetorical...are u aware of the circumstances...no im not one of those goverment cover up theorists..im too much of a republican for that...
yeah but NO was never projected to have 175 winds.
There were only 9000 in the Dome?
For the record I have backed Bush and voted for him. That was a strange thing that happened during the blackout and I do not think any one expected it either.
Storm...lets keep it civil pleasee...civility is a two way street
Storm, thats your crazy opinion. In my view the thing would have held up just fine regardless, all it suffered from was some roof leakage. Hell, its rated for 200 + winds.
only 9000
well goodnite guys i hope you all figure it out..bye squam you make some valid points here.
so ur aware of the circumstances of how he came to that decision?
Nor did it get 135 to 145 winds. More like 120 at best. That side fell apart. I do not think the Dome would have taken a direct hit.
Could you share you understanding of how the mayor decided that he should issue the mandatory evac/..
That is the key RATED. Panels flew off of it in these winds.
Storm...you dont know that...but then neither do you know for sure squam that it would have held either...u cant really say that witrh certainty one way or another unless u are a civil engineer and know the schematics / desing of the dome...and even then there is no guarantee...they thought the twin towers would hold too..they didnt think the titanic could be sunk either....this is actually an important point ..ill reference it in a minute
Being civil 77. Just did not want a change of subject so I had to call him on it.
Thanks Storm but this is a debate so we are on an even platform...thanks for the hlp but that wouldnt be fair..
Sure orleans, a hurricane warning was issued for the area, thats always been good enough reason for me.
Orleans I couldnt care less WHY the mayor did it,the point is he did . I've been through mandatory evacs enough occasions that I don't see them as that big of a deal, just something that comes with hurricanes. Welcome to Florida.
The Mayor did not in fact as late as Saturday Evening have any intention of calling for a Mandatory Evac...The Governor became apparently became concerned that the city of NO was not taking this serious enough..she arranged for Max Mayfield to expect a call from the Mayor..she then called the Mayor and interruoted him at a leisurly Dinnner and told him "You need to call the Director of NHC now...this is very important!!" The mayor admitted this on the local live tv feed..he called mayfield who then proceede to scare the living daylights out of the Mayor...I'd say he definetly hyped the storm to the mayor to induce him to order an evac...he got on tv late saturday evening and urged peopel to leave but still did not order the mandatory evac until sunday am...because of this decision to wait 100,000 people got stuck in NO....the point here...if Mayfield had not "hyped" this storm to the Mayor...the would not have ordered the evac...if NHC and people lke us had not "hyped" this sotrm alot of people would not have evacd in MI or LA or AL either...the "hype" saved lives
Squam u have been thru mandatory evacs..and even for cat 1..do you realize that there has NEVER been a mandatory evac in NO issued until yesterday??
We are getting rain bands here in Milton still! I noticed on the radar it just seems to keep looping up this way. It's even thundering some and we are still getting some wind. crazy!
Finally the hype was based on the worst case scenario...i like others have been in the military..and in the military you plan and execute by expecting it WILL BE the worst case scenario...u hype it because u know how bad it could be...and hope and pray it doesent happen...
Orleans, the governor could have evacuated the area if she wanted to, its completely within her powers, and its also completely irrelevant to why I am being questions. My accusations took issue with the alarmism on THIS blog. I repeat, this blog here. Tens of thousands dead was alarmism. New Orleans not existing anymore was alarmism.
My accusations stand.
Orleans, so what? This has nothing to do with my accusations.
if NO had been hit direct as cat 5 she would have been devestated...not much would have been left...that was the worst case scenario..and for a while Sunday it looked like it just might happen..and not only i or Lefty thought so...NHC thought so..NWS thought so...btw..Governor does not have authority to issue mandatory evacs in natural disasters..only local officials can...
526. OSMS
Facts from the MS Coast. These are from infrequent text messages and cell calls that have gotten through from friends that stayed. I left Oceans Springs, MS yesterday. Ocean Springs is on the water just accross Biloxi Bay from Biloxi.

Casio Magic is resting on Hwy 90.

Treasure Bay Casino is where President Club Casino was. He coudn't see The President.

The bridge between Biloxi and Ocean Springs is destroyed.

Landry's restaurant, IHOP, and Olive garden on hwy 90 in Biloxi are gone They were on the beach near a hospital in Biloxi where a friend was on call.

That same Hospital lost all windows, had 2 fires break out,
and had to evacuate to the 2nd floor because of flooding/storm surge.

A friends house 2 blocks off of east beach in Ocean Springs had 15 ft of water in it. Homes right on the beach are not there.

Cheryl's Steak house on hwy 90 in Ocean Sprins is gone.

Still haven't been able to get any info on my place which is on Ft Bayou. Ft Bayou empties into Biloxi Bay. It is elevated, so I'm more worried about wind damage than strom surge.

BTW, anybody who wis curious is free to go back and read my accusations. So folks I'm going to hit the hay, confident in the future you will all excercise proper judgement when it comes to hurricanes. Night
A cat 5 scenario direct hit with 10,000 - 20,000 deqad in NO and Lousiana was a real possibility..especially in light of the fact that they botched the evacuation...by waiting too long...
squam one last question...what isd your meteorology training..do u have any education in it ?
why are you running away?
Left for a minute to let you two finish up. Let me catch up.
The last point I wanted to make and maybe the most important is that Meterology is not an exact science by any means..we have gotten better at forecsting but its got a ;long way to go....this is the part i question whether u really understand squam
OSMS, The AP is reporting the following:

The McDonalds, Red Lobster, and Olive Garden and much of the Biloxi harbor are destroyed.

The Hard Rock Hotel which was due to open next week has suffered damage that has rendered it unfit to open.

A bridge was destroyed by a shrimp boat.
thks storm...review our posts ..be curios to know wht u think
Orleans, I'm so glad you asked! I have probably just about as much official training as you , which is none. I am 16 year old high school student who has an interest in these storms only for their tendency to flood my living room and make me miss school days. I've learned a fair amount of information about them over the years, and I have good grasp of meteorology. More than anything else, I've lived through more hurricanes in my relatively short time than you hopefully will in your entire life. And , as a parting thought, I again mention that one other qualification of mine that for some reason sometimes seems absent among some people.....

Common Sense. Goodnight
Actually not true..Im an Instrument Rated Pilot..and have had four college level couses in Meterology....I have been through three Hurricanes...including Hurricane Andrew and Hurricane Hugo in 1989
However I am glad you revealed your age as it explains alot ..that said i will compliment you that you are quite intelligent but you need to learn to channel that my friend and try not to be so divisive
You knew it would end this way 77. The only thing that could convince him that thousands would have died would have been for it to happen. Thank god we do not get to say I told you so.
Those were big ones 77. Where were you in Hugo. That was my expereince with these storms also. What got me started. Sept 22 mom's birthday celebrated in the hall of brick home.
Thanks..is ok...still a better approach than trading insults or lettin him push my buttons...hey hes young..hes impulsive...and he thinks hes got all the answers..we were all there once...
Hotel...in Charleston
I do feel bad for Lefty..hes gonna feel silly when he realized he let a 16 year old push his buttons..
Yep. What hotel? I was inland about 2o miles. This is still my home. Don't think I can leave.
Was a hell of a ride....Andrew I was in South Miami...1/2 mile from NHC...the old bldg...
Ouch 50 dead in MS.
Waiting South of Cleveland OH for Katrina to arrive.
Orleans have you heard from your friend? I talked to my mom in Tuscaloosa Al. she said they were having storms and alot of wind..several reported tornadoes and no power for several hours now.. as for us here in TN its raining and the wind is howling...they've already closed schools all over the state for tomorrow :( . My power just flickered so I may be in and out. Keep up the good work Orleans. I have truly found your posts most informative. Cindy
As silly as spending an hour in a Socratic dialogue with the same 16 year old?


Sorry, couldn't resist. You realize, of course, that Socrates always won those 'cause he always asked the questions. Not because he was necessarily more correct.

Wait, of course you do...

549. iyou
orlandocanewatcher - here - www.wkrg.com
holiday inn
He may have left PrettyIz. Short version. Friend was on roof. Water came over roof. Carried him several blocks before grabbed a telephone poll. Hung on for dear life. Was rescued with several broken bones. Will be ok in the long run though.
thks prtyy eyes..hes ok...but injuered..broken arm...3 broken ribs..broken collarbone..broken cheekbone.and very dehydrated
still here storm...had to get a cup of coffee..been up 60 hrs staright
Sorry 77 did not know if you were still here. Did not mean to steal your thunder with the friend rescue.

Round Holiday Inn? or one inland?
Thank God !! I thought about that all day !! We can fix broken bones , but cant replace a life.. I bet he wont do that crap again..they say evac. I'd be gone. Glad to hear he's ok though . Thanks Storm.
55+ dead...thsts just one county in Biloxi actually..many of those from one apt complex...

i still think they wont know for several days how many really died and i think the death toll will be higher then most expect
Anyone know where we can find any arial photos? Especially of the coast line?
558. iyou
orlandocanewatcher - they're showing many locations-maybe what you're looking for - should have added that above
the one closer to the water...
half the place blew down..was insane..andrew was bad too though...both storms i can forget the wind
CNN says whole counties havent beem reached yet and 1000's did not evacuate....ouch...
I am afraid you are right 77. From what I know of the area there are many areas home to lower income in low lying areas. The flooding and surge E of NO may not have been stressed enough.
i was 12 storm so memory is sketchy
Mt pleasant or Folly beach?
Surge was 28'...thats is the highest ever surge in the US...also normally surge comes up slowly unlike a tsunami...

however cantori said it came up very very quickly more like a tsunami....

largest surge in US History..theres gotta be alot of deaths..
whats up yall, hey 77 he didn't push my buttons i am just so tired. i'll be fine always am
* waves at Lefty*
that gov halley barbour on little while ago..he said hes worried about a possible high loss of life...basically east of NO and south of I-10 all the way to AL was absolultely devestated...even though NO got somewhat spared...in few days i dont think anyone will be saying we missed a bullet on this one
Alright enough said then. It was a ride. That would make you 5 years younger than me. Vivid memories for me, but I am sad to say that is the reason I will never leave for one as long as I have high ground and a brick home.

People will start to realize how bad this was in the next few days. Maybe then they will believe how bad it could have been.
yeah i was just watching some tv, little of all networks. so intense images. figure i drop in for a min befor i get what will be a nice night of rest lol.
good glad to hear...i think its kinda funny that hes some 16 y/o kid...
Hey Lefty !! Glad to see your back ! Hope you got some rest !!
Did you like the approach i took with him Lefty?
yeah 77, thats what i was just telling my wife. they said the same thing after andrew but the next day we saw what really happened
death tolls rising quick lefty ...
i think line from jus E of NO to AL and south of I-10...is gonna be jus awful....
i didn't even stay to see it 77, my bed is so comfotable compared to this chair i been in for days lol. i was gonna read all the posts later. i see ur here and he iusn't so good jobl
and i think it will be weeks for we realise how many peopledid lose there lifes. i feel for their familys
they said on fox..that in area i jus described there are close to a million folks..and up to 10% did not evac
The storm let up a little right before landfall(I'll go with that), but a CAT 5 surge does not stop quite as fast.
man its gonna be some sad next coupleof days and weeks ahead
thks lefty..if u get chance go backand see my posts..i think it totally supported our argument / position...thet posts speak for themeselves
Rain is gone..Winds Slacking off here. That makes 5 storms here in 11 months...Ivan, Arlene, Cindy, Dennis, Katrina. But there is a change... Katrina's eye missed by a 100 miles, but her strength put her on par with Dennis eye.
yeah i think that fooled em.28" is a cat 5 surge...
You did well 77. Avoiding my help just added to your credability.
storm...mt pleasant
will be some good reading
77 is tired. 77 means 28' surge.
Thanks Storm ..appreciate that...he is actually a smart kid..i was actually trying to teach something ..
77 is tired lol
Reminds O of the Socratic Dialogue technique...

Our local news here said they busted several places for price gouging and fined them as much as $15000.00 and shut em down !! Finally somebody with the power and ability to do something about it...and actually did !!
hope i like it lefty...:-)
chicago...that was kinda the idea...i think hes so used to just dropping his little "bombs" and gettin a rise out of people that he didnt quite know what to do with me...but he did finally play civilly...
Price gouging is always a big problem. Wait until the tractor trailers of generators and chain saws and dry ice start to flow in from the crooks.
hope U like it lefty not I...i am tired man
I've been listening to WWL 870, and they're painting a very bleak picture. It will be at least a week before anyone can come back, and even then, they probably can't stay. If you try to come back earlier, the National Guard will stop you by any means necessary.
and he did reveal himself...which i dont think he would have had done the same dance hes used to doing to people
yeah NO is hut down for 2 weeks..and Governor said she instructed the Nat Grd to only let only EMS back in...
77 you and lefty are confusing me.
LOL he played civilly earlier also. However, gotta watch that debating technique, he had a few valid points as well. Somewhat buried under a truckload of angst, but valid nonetheless...
chicago...thats ok...thts what i was trying to get at with himt..hes a smart kid but his message is muted by all the other crap
how we confusing ya
604. OSMS
Another bad effect of the Hurricane will be increased as prices I heard on the radio 3.00$ and up a gallon.
If you try to come back earlier, the National Guard will stop you by any means necessary.

When we evac'd after the tornado that evicted us from our rented home years ago, we spent the second day after the storm getting all our stuff out. This was a fairly small community. Still had it's share of looters. National Guard won't play games with their cordon...
It's pretty sad that these people have lost everything and others want to profit from their loss..my cousin worked construction and his group went down after a Hurricane several years ago and he said it was unbelievable at what they were charging for lumber and just basic supplies..they had people trying to hire them out from under their neighbors even..offering more money he said it was a ruckus . He came home and borrowed a trailer and loaded it up and just donated his labor to those that were less fortunate.
ur right they will
You seam to be responding to statements that Lefty is making, but I do not see any lefty.
77, he was also sensing a fair amount of excitement on the boards as the predictions grew grimmer and was offended by it. That's where I believe he has a point... Sadly,(or perhaps not) he's not quite jaded enough to either ignore it or join in.
u hear what the head of homeland security for LA said when they asked him bout die hards that wont evacuate...

he said the only thing die hard about die hards is that they are going to Die Hard...

611. avlos
I pray that the people of new orleans realize that the next storm,whenever that may be, may just as well pass to the west of new orleans instead of the east as katrina did. Please do not become complacent. The more I think of New Orleans the more i imagine what it is must have been like in Galveston prior to 1900. Only after 8000+ people died did they raise the island and build the seawall, remember that storm was "only" a category 4 as well. I pray that the city,state,nation whoever provides the money build some sort of protection for the city. Call it alarmist or whatever, but thousands CAN die in a hurricane. We have history to tell us that.
*looks around for lefty*

Dang, he was JUST right over there!
unreal video...warning heartbreaking

he and you are misunderstanding that...

look why are we all here ..because we are in awe of what nature can do...

when the storm was out at sea yesterday had 175 mph...902mb..you look at this awesome storm u marvel at its size, stength and power...the symetry is beautiful, even if deadly...and yet while u think that you also pray that it will decrease to at least a cat 3 cause u dont want it to hurt people,,,that attiude can easily be mistaken for excitement...

who did here did not look at some of yesterdays sat images and jus go WOW...

who here did not get a chill but yet marvel at 902mb...

Excitement and marvel are two very different beasts
ok read all the posts. good job 77
thks lefty..glad u approved!
be back in a min. want to watch this video thatn someone posted.
unreal video...warning heartbreaking

actually, what struck me was that, while messy, it didn't look all that bad. After the F5 we went through, what trees were still standing were completely defoliated. Also, while there were alot of broken windows, wouldn't you kinda expect that after a hurricane blows through?
Who misunderstanding what?

That video is unreal.
wow, that video was juts something else. was that wind and surge damage or what, gulfport is just destroyed

you must be crazy, that is camille like damage and that is just one town, this is what the damage looks like throughout the southeast
77, I'd actually like to discuss that further. However, not here and now. wrong venue. Kinda like the meteorological (wow, no way that's a word) background that lots of folks come to this with, I come with a bit of a psych background (was my college major, thrown over for computer work LOL). One of the basic tennants of psychology espoused by many theorists is that there is no such thing as altruism, only pursuit of pleasure or escape from pain. Wrap that up as nobly as possible, but it's a little uncivilized at it's heart... If one wanted to watch the most fantastic hurricane extant, I think Jupiter would be the ideal subject. Very little risk there, however...
you must be crazy, that is camille like damage and that is just one town, this is what the damage looks like throughout the southeast

Actually, i'll bet there's places along Kat's path that will look worse. But, point taken.
NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Hurricane Katrina left at least 56 people dead Monday, 50 of them in one Mississippi county, according to The Associated Press, and the toll was expected to climb much much higher following one of the most powerful hurricanes to hit the northern Gulf Coast in a half century.

Hotel worker Suzanne Rodgers returned to her beachfront home near Biloxi but, she told CNN, "there is nothing there. There's debris hanging from trees."

Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour called Katrina's aftermath "catastrophic."

In Louisiana, Blanco said preliminary reports indicate that Hurricane Katrina "devastated" parts of at least six parishes.
One lurker's take on Katrina hype:

I've only lurked here for the past two days. Have family who now live in New Orleans - they evacuated early, as they always do. But I've been following the storm. I knew about the special danger that N.O. faced - although I didn't know it was called "filling the bowl" these days. I also knew that while a direct hit would be bad, it would be worse if it hit to the west, and easier if it hit to the east. And I've learned a lot here about "eyewall replacements" and somesuch.

But when I went to bed last night, when most of America went to bed last night, those of use who had visited NO reminisced over our memories, and we all believed that the last tourist had walked into Jackson Square, the last hurricane had been drunk on Bourbon Street, the last ho had flashed her t*ts for a string of beads --

and we wake up and find it's not the case.

And then tonight(Monday), while the city still stands (thanks be to God), I see an interview of Joe Bastardi on the Macniel/Lehrer Newshour (PBS News). Who I have learnt is perhaps the prime mover and influencer of today's weather scene. And he has the science, the intellect, and the infectious enthusiasm - the same admirable characteriststics that helped to create Sunday's all-caps communiques of apocolypse from the most respected of governmental meteorological institutions.

But as he was interviewed on PBS, while demonstrating with great success his science, his intellect and his enthusiasm, Mr. Bastardi had a point he wanted to make. Evntually he had to cut in to make it. He wanted to point out that this storm was NEVER on track to be the perfect storm for NO - the Big One. Then he smoothly pointed out that Katrina hit (or just missed) NO from the South essentially, as we all know. And then pointed out that the Perfect Storm would, instead, have come at NO from the east, skidding across the Florida Panhandle, optimally forcing the ocean up the Mississippi and into Lake Ponchatrain.

And I thought, of course, that makes sense...
But then I thought ... WHY DIDN'T I HEAR ABOUT THIS ON SUNDAY?!?! Why didn't I hear -- that Katrina -- impressive as she was, as close as she was -- was coming in NINETY DEGREES removed from the bowl-filling big one of the apocalypse?

There is, it seems to me, a certain level of hype.
i agree on the venue but do have to say i strongly disagree on alturism..first its a central pillar of my christian faith and second--ask any good parent that puts their children first and you will find alturism..at least thats my view of it...
there is a mother and 8 family memebrs trapped on a roof in east no. dunno if htey will be ableto get any help.
i agree spectator and have lost a certain degree of respect for Joe Bastardi the lasyt few days....he was once a great meteorlogist but hes has in my opinion peaked this week..and will now start to show some age
oh god
77 Actually, believe it or not, i tend to disagree with it also. However, not completely as it contains a degree of truth, one of those things that you can argue about for a really long time. For me, preferably in more pleasant circumstances and with appropriate beverages.
ill put alturism on a more basic level..i have a wonderful 4 year old boy who is the light of my life...hes is my world..and i can truly say if the moment ever came i would give my life ine a heartbeat to save his..
i agree chicago
Also, be kinda careful about watching aftermath coverage. It's designed to break your heart and to keep you from changing the channel.

Lefty, I'm still curious as to what happened to the nw part of the storm and why it jogged east at the end. Might be important one day, maybe with TD14, 20 or 37. In the meantime I think i'm about done for tonight.

Thank you all, once again, for all the info and dedication.
77 thats what being a parent means once u get right down to it. i have 2 kids a 4yr gr 1yr son. i would do anything to make sure they survived
10 min ago...per Fox

"We pray that the loss of life is very limited, but we fear that is not the case," Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said.
yes lefty im sure u would
Of course you would. The cynic would say you're hard wired that way. It's how your genes propogate. But that's a way different discussion. LOL
Oh O Chicago just reffered t the NW side of the storm.LOL.
Did you notice the tactic SJ? Refer to the NW side of the storm and they say, "i'm leaving now, goodnight."

i was watching footage earlier and a reporter was giving a report on the surge and flooded highway and some guy who should have been in a shelter or somthing goes flying into the water cause he didn't see it covered the highway. now thats not the point of this. the point is the reporter dropped his mike and ran into the water with in secomds. no questions asked. thats human nature
Noted CW!
Ah, Lefty. But why are the Nation Guardsmen armed? That's human nature too...
yes and some times we need those who are to be our control to appear to controll
LOL..that is cynical...dont buy it...its deep love....perfect example...3 mos ago my wife and he went to visit famiy in FL,,,i had to stay back to work...it was the first time i had spent even a night away from him since he was born...he called me tiwce a day...and when i picked them up at the airport as soon as he saw me he yelled "daddy" and ran as fast as he could ..losing his flip flops along the way and jumped into my arms...as i hugged him i had tears streaming down my face and it had only been a week..thats deep love in my book..

The amazing thing is people around me were so moved...our society teaches us not to show emotion..esp not in public..and programs us, in my opinion, to be cynical...
good point lefty..i saw that too
But that is also why we want to be there to some extent Lefty. We get great satisfaction out of being able to help others.
i feel ya 77. some times our society is so robotic when we are not in private
exactly lefty..that is one of the best and most dear moment of my life...
ofcourse and at the same time we hope someone would help us if we ever needed.

like the couple times i had a flat tire on i-95 and someone always stops. i try to stop if i see them in time and i hope that that person will stop for someone else. u know pay it forawrd
77 what moved me somuch about that was it was like a reflex to him. he neve thought about it.
Pay it forward. If only we could get everyone on board. Right now I need the Oil companies to Pay It Forward. I also need the technical expertise of this nation to Pay It Forward so that we can get away from being driven by oil. The fat pigs will not let that happen any time soon. We are much better individuals than we are as a group.
Read this guys...dint even think of this


Aug. 29, 2005 If you're a farmer in Pennsylvania or the Dakotas, chances are that much of the grain you grow will be sent by barge down the Mississippi right through the path of Hurricane Katrina.

Likewise, if you live in Illinois or Tennessee, and you're trying to buy a car, there's a good chance the steel for its frame and the rubber for its tires were shipped from overseas, coming up the Mississippi in the other direction.

The Port of Southern Louisiana is the largest in America and the fifth largest in the world only Singapore, Rotterdam, Shanghai and Hong Kong are bigger. By tonnage, fully a quarter of America's exports pass right through the disaster zone.

"It's a little-appreciated fact that New Orleans is one of the most strategic cities in the United States," said George Friedman, chairman of Stratfor, Inc., a firm that provides economic and intelligence analysis to private companies. He said he worries that Katrina might have churned up so much silt that the Mississippi will have to be dredged.

Billions in Damages, Possible Disruption to Entire Economy

"It doesn't matter where the river is blocked," he said. "You could wind up with some serious grain shortages around the world, where U.S. farmers can't get to market. That doesn't mean it's happened; we just don't know. But that is the number-one threat, not oil."

On the Chicago Board of Trade, the hurricane drove prices up on everything from beef to soybeans. Prices rose 1 percent to 4 percent, while traders waited nervously for information on how much damage Katrina caused.

Early estimates said damage from Katrina might be between $10 billion and $25 billion a number that might have been much higher if the storm had hit New Orleans directly. Historically, insurance and government aid cover about three-quarters of the losses.

But time is money, and nobody knows how much time will be lost because the lower Mississippi was closed.

"Exports, imports a lot of that occurs through the Louisiana ports," said Mark Zandi, chief economist for the Web site Economy.com. "If that's disrupted for any significant period of time, then that's going to disrupt the entire U.S. economy."
I'm really about done, i have to get up in a couple hours for work. But 77, have you ever sat in church and seen a young couple with a cooing baby? And seen somebody next to them look at the baby and smile?

And somebody in front get all aggravated about the irresponsible and inconsiderate young people who wont take their loud brat outside?

Point is, we are all hard wired about some things and then programmed for others. Some of us have buttons that are easily pushed, and some don't.

That cameraman was driven to jump into the water by:
1) his self image / expectations of correct behavior instilled into him by role models
2) a knowledge that there was a camera crew right their to pull his wet ass out if it went wrong
3) the sure knowledge that the cameras were rolling.

You choose...
655. avlos
spectator - there is more than one way to "fill the bowl".
we always are. thats why people riot when in a group but as individuals u would never see them act the way they do when in the group.
Report from Middle Tennessee. First bands passed over this morning early, then drizzle all day. Steady rain began several hours ago. Not much wind here now, expected to pick up to 45mph by morning and stronger gusts. We're under an inland tropical storm warning. Trees down in southern part of the state already. No, I am not hyping it up or forecasting doom. But this clearly was a big storm to hit MS if we are going to get 5 inches or more of rain from the remnants, and we're on the west edge of the main storm, which will track up the western Tennessee Valley.

Rode across the state yesterday and saw the TVA dams and CofE dams spilling water for extra storage capacity to reduce flooding. They hate to open spillways this time of year--every gallon is a lost watt from hydro power--and alas, all this water is headed down to New Orleans in a few days.

The Mississippi is going to be under additional stress from all the rain falling in its upper tributaries. Can't be that good for the people starting to try to recover from the storm.

Gonna be a wet, miserable windy day here tomorrow, but nothing compared to what Biloxi and Mobile have been through.
it is for him...he feels very safe..u can see it in his eyes...he has a mom and dad who loves him soooo much...its all he knows...im very affectionate with him...lots of hugs...all he knows is love
i don't think it was any of those things. he reacted to a situation, like a reflex. to me it was a fight or flight thing. some people would just sat there and watched but he was a fighter. some of us are lions and some of us are the antelope. if he had paused for one second than i can say he thought about it, but it was a split second reaction. was very moving
cnn is trying to egt that lady on her roof somehelp.
lol...well funny that you mention that...there are times i have seen a baby and smiled...and other times that i was trying to hear the pastors message and get annoyed...but agter a few minutes of being annoyed i find myself asking would God want me to be annoyed...and the answer is no...and then i see the pastor look over and smile at the baby and i the baby is no longer annoying...no one knew my thoughts...only me and God...yet i was able to change them

we are in control of our conscious thought...and although we have certain tenedencies or preferences they can be overcome...to think less is a cop out or an excuxe for bad behavior..at least in my opinion it is
some of us are lions and some of us are the antelope.

Not alot or room for altruism either way.

Back on topic, I mentioned the storm I was obsessing over (with lefty LOL) to a friend who was (of course) completely oblivious about it. After explaining the potential impacts caused by the disruption of shipping in the area (i was thinking of $5.00 /gallon gas) she said, "wonder what it will do to the price of corn and beans."

Her husband is one of those Illinoisian farmers. I'd never thought of it. And, danged if i know if it means they'll go up or down. Maybe both, depending where you are.
20 square miles underwater where the cnn videophone feed is from. Just outside NO. People stranded.
i assume u will see a rise in prices cause evrything will be more expensive. that
thks chicago...we get pigeon holed into thinking a certain way..and then something comes along to make us realize there is more to it...
no one knew my thoughts...only me

LOL! 77, self guilt or pride are the most powerful motivators. Nobody needs to know 'em. Doesn't mean they're altruistic though. Just a genuine desire to avoid alot of cognitive dissonance.
Or is CNN just trying to get a story?
during a timelike this i don't think you need to try to get a story.
not based on guilt or pride..jus based on what would God want me to do, figuring that out and then obeying him (God)...
spewey-- where ya from? I'm in Woodbury...between Murfreesboro and Chattanooga.
man i think when we see pictures of those small communities we will see the true scope of how bad this storm was. no may not have been devestated but this was as strong of a cat4 as you can get. i am sure there are whole communites and small towns just wiped away.
Journalists are alway trying to get a story Lefty, wether to tell their friends and family or for work. Sorry though, I was just playing devils advocate in this whole human race, philisophical discussion.
Ok, getting into territory that really calls for HOURS of beer and pretzles. Means it's time for bed (wife thinks I'm completely nuts btw, she has always been the sensible one).

Niters all

*Cough, cough*Northwest storm edge *Cough*
i agree lefty
lol night chicago
again i agree chicago...my wife long accepted thats when it comes to WX im certifiable...

LOL...my wife jus came in and said, "...the hurricane has had you for 3 days now..im taking you back...tell Katarina she lost." -- she said this with a smile on her face...
CW just wants to get me started again.
prob a good thing cause i cant keep my eyes open anyway
Don't break up prior to landfall CW.lmao.
and its not over. we will see alot of flooding in tenn and kentucky and other states. i know we are forcasted to get some nasty t-storms and possible tornados up here in va tomm. we took huge hits from floding and tornados from all the hurricanes last year.
Sorry that was for 77. not CW.
shes pretty cute so i better listen to her......

nite guys...
thks storm...ill try to stay airborne for a little bit...
lol thats funny 77. my wife is the same way. she asked me many times over the last 3 days "did u leave that chair at all today"
nite 77
LOL...allright she breakin out the lingerie...shes on a mission...nite all
Good night all.
prettyeyez--Nashville, between Franklin and Gallatin.
yeah i am going to bed to nite all
Does anyone know if all those people are still in the Superdome? Will they be held there for days since there is no power and parts of the city are still flooded? Is this gonna delay the Saints opening day? What are they planning to do with the people in there? I can't imagine their mood is particularly pleasant.
That lady on cnn just put it all in perspective. Suspended rescue till morning. Were leaving and still heard people yelling. Most did not even have holes in the roofs. Water may still be rising.
People will stay in dome for now.
man that is just to much
With maybe 20,000 homeless in New Orleans, are they going to keep these homeless in the Dome for months until they can rebuild? It's gotta be awful being confined to one seat even for two days. I can't see staying there for weeks or months. It must be awful in there tonight, high humidity from the leaks, no AC, limited power. I'd be cranky myself; I can't imagine what these people are going through. Do they even let them out for a breath of fresh air?
they won't be in the dome much longer. fema willcome in and these people will be put in tent cities adn than into trailer camps.
Spewey you the people in the Dome are lucky. Lefty- you just saw that CNN story? People are stuck in attics over a 20 square mile area and rescuers had to walk away due to dark and other dangers. Water may still be rising. That is awful. Many will make the storm, just will not get rescued in time.
Spewey we just lost power again...only off for about 15 min this time ...I'm afraid its gonna be ugly around here as we are arural area.
its sad and lonely
Good luck prttyeyez; wind is picking up here. Local news reports many trees being blown down in Lawrence County on the ALA line.

The land of Uncle Dave will come through, have faith.
Those people in the Dome must be under heavy psychological stress. A night last night away from home, all those people, worrying about what might happen to their homes, the rain through the roof this morning, loss of all but emergency power, no AC, high humidity, stinky people, worried people, being moved to other areas, having to stay in a stadium seat for hours, no idea if they'll be released.

I know they have it easier than those trapped in attics and on roofs, but this has to be a horrid experience. The Guard could keep them confined in there for days since the city is without power and water, and days in a seat without a shower, without fresh air, oh my it's hard to imagine.
Thanks Spewey ..it is raining so hard here right now...and the wind is howling pretty good I opened the door and the wind pulled it out of my hands...it looks like its gonna be a long nite...my mom lives in Tuscaloosa AL and she said it was rough down there..they've been out of power since about 6:30.
Waves are just rolling off of Africa.
Yes, windy already here, prttyeyez, but the inland tropical storm warning doesn't even take effect for another two hours. Calling for winds in the 40s and gusts in the sixties or higher. I can't expect power to stay on forever. Trees being blown down in the lower part of the state. But nothing like what Mississippi and Alabama went through.
they won't keep them in the dome long. u must understand the storm just hit today. fema will probly bstart seting up tent cities tomm or wed. but i understand what ur saying and the tent cities won't be any better. but remeebr they are alive and i know for a time yesterday and this morning some of if not all those people thought they were going to die and they survived. that probly is giving them strength to go on
Goodnight all. Prtteyez, good luck overnight; it's just rain and wind here for the most part. It's gonna be high winds in the morning though. Watch those creeks if you are driving overnight.

Peace everyone.
Spewey Ch.2 they just said that all those people are still in the superdome...that they have to find shelters for them first before they can be moved.
2 block breach in lake p. levee. At 17th and canal.
According to a doctor in the Tulane Univ. Hospital a levee just broke between New Orleans and the lake. Water is entering Canal St. and inside the hospital it is increasing really fast to the point that ambulances can no longer enter. She was talking to CNN and she said the the police confirmed the problem with the levee.
Water is rising at 1" every 5 minutes. God no the bowl is filling.
CNN has had a live reporter at one of the hospitals near tulane. They now have 6 feet of water.
711. syd
What live online news streams from the affected area are folks listening to here? Thanks.
712. iyou
syd - www.wkrg.com
Corps of engineers to speak on levee breach with in hour.
levee break confirmed, seems to not be a lot of coverage about it though. Isn't something like this one of the "filling the bowl" scenarios everyone was worried about?
Yes it is interesting a levve breaks, I am from New Zealand and would like to know, if someone could say, how IMPORTANT is the Levee and is the whole structure important or just parts of it?
I am unsure, for instance if just a small portion breaks if that is such a bad thing?
Has anyone considered how the river will affect the city over the next few days as all the rain dropped all the way up to PA starts running back down to NO? A lot of water has fallen between the river and the appalachians, and it all goes down the same pipe in the end...
Any time there is water inolved, a little hole will gradually become a big hole. The water will keep getting larger due to the pressure of the water releasing.
Good morning guys. I guess that everybody is still sleeping or cleaning up after Katrina. Are there any news from Stormtop? Hoping all bloggers and family and friends are safe. Aida
Let's try to keep it under control. It's 1 foot per hour.

How important is the Levee...

The Levee* holds back the water from a large lake that is higher than the city in NORMAL conditions. Lake was @ flood stage & is draining into the city. I have heard that the Mississippi River has spillways to divert overflow around the city but I do not know anything about how it works. Only what I see on CNN.
The newest Levee breach is a small 2 block breach that is not causing severe harm in New Orleans. This is per MSNBC.
I been thinking the nightmare might not be over, we still got a couple of months left. Its entirely possible for the area to get hit again. Its the downside of having roughly 40 years of average to less than average seasons before it picked up again in the mid 90's. The real scary thing would be what is thier is uber-hurricane seasons/cycles that we have no seen yet since we only been keeping detailed weather records for a little over 100 years. I am talking a season where tropical systems form at a average rate of 2 a week for the season and that over 70% of them become major hurricanes...

Don't mean to be a doomsayer but its a sobering thought
Think of a 2 block wide opening in a damn. ( Small???)

Mayor of Nola said Hrs ago that this is the worst yet. Parts of city were under 20 ft of water @ that time. People are trapped in atic's

CNN had this Hours before the Bill Gates network. MSNBC.

I think Bill needs to make a BIG donation wit Opra to help support the rescue efforts.
Hi Orion: I was thinking watching the news that if they make a tent or trailer temporary camp it will be very dangerous because of the future hurricanes. I don't know if there are any real alternatives though.
I have been away for a while, did anyone ever apologize to STORMTOP for bashing over the CAT 5 prediction???
Scotty...he hasn't been on since before the storm hit.

Yes they are going to have a hard time no matter what. I heard on the news that a project 1 to 1.5 million people where displaced by the storm and it could take months before people could be let back into the worse hit areas. Which could be longer if the secondary effects of this hurricane happen (ie disease outbreaks, leeve's giving way, another tropical system, chemical cleanup etc.. etc..)
goodmorning everyone
good morning lefty....wondered where you were. Got some sleep?
Note the storm damage estimates as low as 9 bilion dollars. Supposedly, from 'TV' sources, New Orleans alone has about 115 billion insured. Therefore these estimates seem a little low, right? Isn't the city at least 25% gone, with infrastructure damage which will stop most commerce for many months? Consider the countless number of smaller areas with even more windstorm damage loss per capita. Shouldn't these estimates be coming in at 50-100 billion? The damage estimates are directly proportional to how much 'capital aid' begins going back into the city.
Hi all,

Does anyone have friends or family in or near Pascgagoula, MS ?

I'm trying to find my Dad and any info would help.

Roads getting there open or closed? Are they letting people go back to their homes?

Any info would help.

Thank you.

I recently bought property around Poplarville, MS. Since my house in N.O. is pretty much gone, I was wondering if anyone new how bad the Poplarville area was hit. I may have to relocate there sooner than I planned if it hasn't been completely devastated as well. Any info would be very greatly appreciated.
732. xkcd
Sometime earlier tonight all the gas stations in Newport News, VA ran out. I can't find any news on it (as of about 5:00 GMT, just got net back) but the stations all have blank signs and no gas except diesel.

Rumor here has it that there's no gas for sale in either North or South Carolina, anywhere.

Anyone got more information? I've never seen gas stations be out before (I was born a little too late to remember the Seventies)