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Category 6 has moved! See the latest from Dr. Jeff Masters and Bob Henson here.

EPA rules greenhouse gases threaten public health; winter storm pounds U.S.

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 4:03 PM GMT on December 08, 2009

In a press release yesterday the EPA announced: "After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people. The ruling comes in response to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court decision that GHGs fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants, and paves the way for the EPA to regulate CO2 as a pollutant. In the event Congress does not pass legislation to limit greenhouse gas emissions, the EPA now has the power to do that on its own. In the words of the press release, "President Obama and Administrator Jackson have publicly stated that they support a legislative solution to the problem of climate change and Congress. efforts to pass comprehensive climate legislation. However, climate change is threatening public health and welfare, and it is critical that EPA fulfill its obligation to respond to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that determined that greenhouse gases fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants." The first EPA rule to limit CO2 would likely affect cars and light-duty trucks. Over 23% of U.S. greenhouse gases emissions are caused by on-road vehicles. Rules drafted on September 15, 2009, if imposed, would require vehicles sold between 2012 - 2016 to average 35.5 MPG.

Release of hacked emails had "organization and orchestration", UEA official says
Prof Trevor Davies, pro-vice chancellor at the University of East Angelina where the "climategate" hacked email controversy began, said in an interview yesterday: "A lot of people have remarked that it seems an unlikely co-incidence that this happened just before Copenhagen. There are indications that the people who stole this data and documents have had them for some time. They have clearly had the chance to go through them and we have had to check them ourselves. I think from the way that this has mushroomed and the very rapid responses on various blog sites, it seems to me that it has some organization and orchestration".

Meanwhile, in the U.S., the FBI is investigating death threats made against two U.S. climate scientists involved in the emails. Clearly, meteorologists involved in tornado and hurricane chasing are risking their lives in the cause of science, but who would have thought that meteorologists sitting behind a computer crunching numbers would be risking their lives? Crazy life!.

Other posts on the hacked climate change email affair
Don't shoot the messenger
Embattled UK climate scientist steps down
The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy
Is more CO2 beneficial for Earth's ecosystems?

Ricky Rood in Copenhagen
Our Climate Change expert, Dr. Ricky Rood, is in Copenhagen for the COP15 climate change summit. His post on the "climategate" affair is one of the more intelligent and diplomatic commentaries I've seen.

Major winter storm blasts the Plains and Western U.S.
Meanwhile, back in North America, it is winter. The season's first widespread heavy snow event is here, with a fierce winter storm that is the pounding the west. The storm will dump heavy snow along a wide swath across a large region of the country, from California to Michigan. The storm brought blizzard conditions and a foot of snow to northern Arizona today. Fierce thunderstorms with winds gusts up to 74 mph hit the Phoenix region, causing widespread tree damage and power outages for 250,000 people. California's Sierra Mountains recorded over 3 feet of snow, and 1 - 3 feet of snow is expected in the mountains of southern Utah and in Colorado. Up to a foot of snow is expected tonight through Wednesday across Kansas, Iowa, southern Minnesota, and southern Wisconsin, with blizzard conditions likely in Iowa.

Some snow amounts from the storm so far (with distances in miles from the city included, where appropriate):

...CALIFORNIA...
ALPINE MEADOWS 42.0
KIRKWOOD 40.0
CISCO 5 ENE 35.0
KINGVALE 1.3 WSW 29.0
HOMEWOOD 2 SE 27.0
PROSSER CREEK RESERVOIR 24.0
FAIR PLAY 2.8 ESE 17.0
PLACERVILLE 2.9 WNW 13.0
SOUTH LAKE TAHOE 13.0
VOLCANO 5.4 NE 12.5
GRASS VALLEY 5.5 ESE 11.5
COLFAX 3.1 SW 11.0
ALTA SIERRA 0.4 WSW 10.0
SUSANVILLE 3.2 SSW 8.8
LAKE OF THE PINES 8.0
NEVADA CITY 5.4 W 5.2
FOLSOM 3.4 ESE 0.5
CARMICHAEL 1.4 W 0.3
SACRAMENTO 8.0 NE 0.1

...NEVADA...
HEAVENLY VALLEY 24.0
MT ROSE SKI AREA 23.0
CARSON CITY 1.3 NW 18.0
DAYTON 1.7 SW 13.0
RENO 7.1 N 12.0

...ARIZONA...
FLAGSTAFF 11.6
WILLIAMS 8.0
BELLEMONT 7.2
GRAND CANYON ARPT 3.0

...COLORADO...
DELTA 10.2

...UTAH...
VERDURE 8 WNW 25.0

Next post
My next post will be Wednesday.

Jeff Masters
Ice Bells
Ice Bells
Star on ice
Star on ice

Climate Change

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

snow all around me :P

850mb temp anomalies next week:

a good freeze would be nice :)

But what I really want is one of these: Link
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
a good freeze would be nice :)

But what I really want is one of these: Link


It takes a lot to do that...

MSLP for that event:

Quoting presslord:
atmo...it only takes time and money...and an indulgent spouse helps...

Just saw this while reading back...

In fact, the wife will prolly work on it more than anyone else. A true tom-boy, her.
Loves fishing, baits her own hook, too.
Loves tent-camping, pop-ups and RVs are for wimps.
Loves white-water canoeing (rafting is for wimps, too.)
Thoroughly enjoys drag racing...as a driver and spectator.

Umm, after all that, I should say, no, she is not for sale.
On CNN Website, there is a video presentation, using Time-Lapse photography going back several years. Showing amazing footage of Glacier retreat, and some awesome video of gigantic glacial 'calving'.
"the Warming is in the ice" is the title.
Even if you dont believe in Warming, this is a fine presentation with wonderous photography.
Check it out.
Quoting atmoaggie:

Just saw this while reading back...

In fact, the wife will prolly work on it more than anyone else. A true tom-boy, her.
Loves fishing, baits her own hook, too.
Loves tent-camping, pop-ups and RVs are for wimps.
Loves white-water canoeing (rafting is for wimps, too.)
Thoroughly enjoys drag racing...and a driver and spectator.

Umm, after all that, I should say, no, she is not for sale.


aww come on! haha jk :P
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
a good freeze would be nice :)

But what I really want is one of these: Link

Noooooo. Those are really bad. A lot of our infrastructure was NOT meant for that.
For example, Exxon had a little problem with a propane line, cause the piping was not meant for those temps. Boom.

I think we went down to ~8 (?) in BR during that...
Quoting Drakoen:


It takes a lot to do that...

MSLP for that event:



Oh, do I remember that, and about 3 1/2 million Dallas-Ft Worth, TX residents remember the morning low on Christmas Eve, -1F actual air temperature! And Galveston had several inches of snow that year!!
Tornado Warning

SEVERE WEATHER STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE JACKSON MS
853 PM CST TUE DEC 8 2009

MSC099-159-090315-
/O.CON.KJAN.TO.W.0120.000000T0000Z-091209T0315Z/
NESHOBA MS-WINSTON MS-
853 PM CST TUE DEC 8 2009

...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 915 PM CST FOR WINSTON
AND NORTHERN NESHOBA COUNTIES...

AT 853 PM CST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS CONTINUE TO
TRACK A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO. THIS
TORNADO WAS LOCATED 10 MILES WEST OF STALLO MOVING NORTHEAST AT 60
MPH.

THE TORNADO WILL BE NEAR...
BURNSIDE BY 900 PM CST...
NOXAPATER AND STALLO BY 905 PM CST...
CENTER RIDGE...NANIH WAIYA AND LOUISVILLE BY 910 PM CST...
VERNON AND MILLCREEK BY 915 PM CST...

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A TORNADO WARNING MEANS THAT A TORNADO IS OCCURRING OR IMMINENT. YOU
SHOULD ACTIVATE YOUR TORNADO ACTION PLAN AND TAKE PROTECTIVE ACTION
NOW.

&&

LAT...LON 3282 8892 3281 8893 3282 8931 3296 8931
3322 8892 3293 8890
TIME...MOT...LOC 0253Z 247DEG 52KT 3291 8928

$$

EEC







Baton Rouge, that day.

Link
Quoting pottery:
On CNN Website, there is a video presentation, using Time-Lapse photography going back several years. Showing amazing footage of Glacier retreat, and some awesome video of gigantic glacial 'calving'.
"the Warming is in the ice" is the title.
Even if you dont believe in Warming, this is a fine presentation with wonderous photography.
Check it out.

Is this the link you were talking about?
Link

This is an affront to the constitution of the United States of America!

An agency of the US government shall not have powers over the Congress!

This shall not stand!
The quote from above is one of many straws that has broken the back of American Citizens!
Its Illegal!
It usurps the layers of Constitutional Government!

This that follows is not America!
ITS MAYHEM!

From the good DOC M.

"In a press release yesterday the EPA announced: "After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people. The ruling comes in response to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court decision that GHGs fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants, and paves the way for the EPA to regulate CO2 as a pollutant. In the event Congress does not pass legislation to limit greenhouse gas emissions, the EPA now has the power to do that on its own. In the words of the press release, "President Obama and Administrator Jackson have publicly stated that they support a legislative solution to the problem of climate change and Congress. efforts to pass comprehensive climate legislation. However, climate change is threatening public health and welfare, and it is critical that EPA fulfill its obligation to respond to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that determined that greenhouse gases fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants." The first EPA rule to limit CO2 would likely affect cars and light-duty trucks. Over 23% of U.S. greenhouse gases emissions are caused by on-road vehicles. Rules drafted on September 15, 2009, if imposed, would require vehicles sold between 2012 - 2016 to average 35.5 MPG."
Quoting tornadodude:
snow all around me :P



I'm sorry, hey, then this song came to mind :0)

<>img src="" alt="" />
Quoting Bordonaro:


I'm sorry, hey, then this song came to mind :0)

<>img src="" alt="" />


haha very nice
post 512, Miarjz.
Yeah! Thanks.
Quoting Bordonaro:


Oh, do I remember that, and about 3 1/2 million Dallas-Ft Worth, TX residents remember the morning low on Christmas Eve, -1F actual air temperature! And Galveston had several inches of snow that year!!

I like cold weather, but that was a little much...

Baton rouge Dec 21 - 25, 1989:


Did bottom out at 9...with some wind. Would have been at least a few degrees worse without it.
513, Spathy.
Looks like it's gonna happen anyway. Hard luck, man.
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Baton Rouge, that day.

Link

Ah, thanks. (We were accessing the same thing simultaneously!)
post 522.
The Ice-Caps are weeping.........
Quoting spathy:
This is an affront to the constitution of the United States of America!

An agency of the US government shall not have powers over the Congress!

This shall not stand!
The quote from above is one of many straws that has broken the back of American Citizens!
Its Illegal!
It usurps the layers of Constitutional Government!

This that follows is not America!
ITS MAYHEM!

From the good DOC M.

"In a press release yesterday the EPA announced: "After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people. The ruling comes in response to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court decision that GHGs fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants, and paves the way for the EPA to regulate CO2 as a pollutant. In the event Congress does not pass legislation to limit greenhouse gas emissions, the EPA now has the power to do that on its own. In the words of the press release, "President Obama and Administrator Jackson have publicly stated that they support a legislative solution to the problem of climate change and Congress. efforts to pass comprehensive climate legislation. However, climate change is threatening public health and welfare, and it is critical that EPA fulfill its obligation to respond to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that determined that greenhouse gases fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants." The first EPA rule to limit CO2 would likely affect cars and light-duty trucks. Over 23% of U.S. greenhouse gases emissions are caused by on-road vehicles. Rules drafted on September 15, 2009, if imposed, would require vehicles sold between 2012 - 2016 to average 35.5 MPG."


Boy are you wrong. There is no usurping of power from Congress here. It is an agency coming up with it's own rules of the road. You may agree or disagree with their statement, but they are well within their rights. Same thing is done all the time by government agencies that make policies and regulations (think FAA, CDC, USDA, ATF, GSA, GAO... etc.) The making of laws (Congress) is not the same thing as making policies, procedures, rules, etc.
This is just another of those inflammatory, ill informed statements people use to back up their points and would rather try scare tactics instead of dialogue.

edit: Laws created by Congress concerning this and any other matter will override any policies and regulations written, provided the law is written properly and broaches the same issue directly.
so miserable outside

Lafayette, Purdue University Airport
Lat: 40.43 Lon: -86.93 Elev: 623
Last Update on Dec 8, 9:54 pm EST

Heavy Rain Fog/Mist and Breezy

36 °F
(2 °C)
Humidity: 86 %
Wind Speed: E 24 G 29 MPH
Barometer: 29.36" (994.6 mb)
Dewpoint: 32 °F (0 °C)
Wind Chill: 24 °F (-4 °C)
Visibility: 3.00 mi.
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Baton Rouge, that day.

Link


I just looked at the NARR and the high pressure center was around 1055mb centered over the southern plains region. Artic air funneled down WAY SOUTH. Rarely do you see that: 1000mb-500mb thickness of 510dm all the way down to Louisiana and 540dm penetrating the waters of the central Gulf of Mexico.

Baton Rouge's coldest highs

Jan 10 1962 12/23
Jan 11 1962 10/21

Those are the two coldest high temps in history of Baton Rouge.

Coldest lows

Feb 13 1899 2
Feb 14 1899 7
Quoting tornadodude:
so miserable outside

Lafayette, Purdue University Airport
Lat: 40.43 Lon: -86.93 Elev: 623
Last Update on Dec 8, 9:54 pm EST

Heavy Rain Fog/Mist and Breezy

36 °F
(2 °C)
Humidity: 86 %
Wind Speed: E 24 G 29 MPH
Barometer: 29.36" (994.6 mb)
Dewpoint: 32 °F (0 °C)
Wind Chill: 24 °F (-4 °C)
Visibility: 3.00 mi.


Here, have some chocolate chip Christmas Cookies, my crazy 22 & 25 yr old daughter's idea!!!

the 1962 cold wave was also interesting. It gave NE FL/SE GA its only major ice storm in history. The ice line ran through southern Duval county, and was mostly pretty light in Jacksonville, although they had to close all the bridges. On St Simons, rain set in on the evening of the 11th with temps in the upper 20s, which fell to 24 by dawn on Jan 12th, with steady rain. The rain ended around noon on the 12th, and it warmed up to 35 but stayed cloudy. We had an ice accumulation over 0.8", and a lot of power lines went down.
Quoting Bordonaro:


Here, have some chocolate chip Christmas Cookies, my crazy 22 & 25 yr old daughter's idea!!!



mail them here! Lol
Research the events of Feb 8-9 1972 or 73. Big snow in Mobile and P'cola.
532. amd
the big winter storm is strengthening quickly in Missouri, as it tracks just nw of St. Louis. Pressure is now down to 991 mb.

Link
the big snows then were in Macon GA and south of Columbia, SC with over 20" in Feb 1973

Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
the 1962 cold wave was also interesting. It gave NE FL/SE GA its only major ice storm in history. The ice line ran through southern Duval county, and was mostly pretty light in Jacksonville, although they had to close all the bridges. On St Simons, rain set in on the evening of the 11th with temps in the upper 20s, which fell to 24 by dawn on Jan 12th, with steady rain. The rain ended around noon on the 12th, and it warmed up to 35 but stayed cloudy. We had an ice accumulation over 0.8", and a lot of power lines went down.


That sounds like a differential advection situation. Warm air aloft overriding cool air in the lower levels.
Quoting tornadodude:


mail them here! Lol


They will be all gone so soon!!

<>img src="" alt="" />
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
the big snows then were in Macon GA and south of Columbia, SC with over 20" in Feb 1973



Storm I'm referencing I bet.
Oh Climate gate~ Remember yesterday..maybe Russian hackers. Today looking more like Russian ex-KGB.

This may turn out that the ones screaming ..you socialists, you shouldn't force corps & ag to stop harming us/enviroment ..while presenting stolen e-mails..maybe supporting the 'ol socialism propaganda machine.
Mobile history for 1973 not available

Pensacola Feb 8th: Link

Feb 9th: Link

Feb 10th: Link
Since Dr. Master's linked to a blog on Climategate, here's an interesting read on what "I used Mike's nature trick to hide the decline" means. It's technical for those that are interested.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/understanding_climategates_hid.html
The Feb 1973 snowstorm:

Quoting Bordonaro:


They will be all gone so soon!!

<>img src="" alt="" />


LOL
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Research the events of Feb 8-9 1972 or 73. Big snow in Mobile and P'cola.


List of snow events in Florida


I remember couple of these.
Odd. Mobile is now available again

Feb 8 1973: Link

Feb 9 1973: Link

Feb 10 1973: Link
Sheesh,,maybe a 04 repeat..?


out 10thanustbcoldest...wasa pipe
Here's an interesting article on what "Hide the decline" and "Mike's nature trick" are all about. It's technical but interesting reading for those that are inclined towards such things.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/understanding_climategates_hid.html
All those ...
FAA, CDC, USDA, ATF, GSA, GAO.
Should only be making recommendations to congress.
The elected officials should be the only ones who say yes or no to said regulations....

And now that you mention it.

FAA, CDC, USDA, ATF, GSA, GAO

Should all come under harsh scrutiny and defanging.

Are you so accustomed to breaking the constitutional rules that the constitution means nothing?
So even when it comes to our elected officials being in complete non control.
You have no problem with that?
What would you say to Newt Gingrich having control over the agency's that you now seem to have no problem the complete lack of any congressional checks and balances.
Come on folks.
Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi will not be in controll forever!
What happens when the next Republican (non Conservative)Richard Nixon takes office?
You going to be ok with it then?
Wake up!
I've seen snow in the air in P'cola 10 times of so but that was the only time it really stuck. We had about 2 inches on the ground right down to the coast. Iwas in 7th grade and the roads strated icing up and they closed school early due to freezing rain. Right around dark it switched to snow. That was fun night in the neighborhood.
NCEP UPDATE ON OUR DEC 8,2009 BLIZZARD:

STORM SUMMARY NUMBER 06 FOR CENTRAL PLAINS TO GREAT LAKES WINTER
STORM
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
900 PM CST TUE DEC 08 2009

...SIGNIFICANT WINTER STORM AFFECTING THE NORTH CENTRAL AND
EASTERN U.S....

BLIZZARD WARNINGS ARE IN EFFECT ACROSS EASTERN NEBRASKA AND
NORTHEASTWARD INTO CENTRAL WISCONSIN. WINTER STORM WARNINGS AND
WINTER WEATHER ADVISORIES ARE CURRENTLY IN EFFECT FROM THE CENTRAL
HIGH PLAINS AND NORTHEASTWARD TO THE UPPER GREAT LAKES REGION.
WINTER STORM WATCHES...WARNINGS...AND WINTER WEATHER ADVISORIES
ARE ALSO IN EFFECT ALONG THE CENTRAL APPALACHIANS AND NORTHWARD
ACROSS NEW ENGLAND.

FLOOD AND FLASH FLOOD...WATCHES...WARNINGS...AND ADVISORIES ARE IN
EFFECT FOR PORTIONS OF THE LOWER MISSISSIPPI AND TENNESSEE
VALLEYS. FLOOD AND FLASH FLOOD WATCHES AND WARNINGS ARE ALSO IN
EFFECT ACROSS THE NORTHERN MID-ATLANTIC AND COASTAL REGIONS OF NEW
ENGLAND.

HIGH WIND WATCHES...WARNINGS...AND WIND AND LAKE WIND ADVISORIES
ARE IN EFFECT ALONG THE APPALACHIANS...OHIO VALLEY...AND LOWER
GREAT LAKES.

FOR A DETAILED GRAPHICAL DEPICTION OF THE LATEST
WATCHES...WARNINGS AND ADVISORIES...PLEASE SEE WWW.WEATHER.GOV

AT 800 PM CST...A 992 MB LOW PRESSURE CENTER WAS LOCATED OVER WEST
CENTRAL MISSOURI WITH WIDESPREAD PRECIPITATION SPREADING ACROSS
THE NORTH CENTRAL AND EASTERN U.S.. NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE
DOPPLER RADARS AND SURFACE OBSERVATIONS INDICATED THAT A BAND OF
MODERATE TO HEAVY SNOW WAS FALLING FROM EASTERN KANSAS TO THE
UPPER GREAT LAKES. SOUTH AND EAST OF THE SNOW...A WINTRY MIX OF
PRECIPITATION WAS OBSERVED ACROSS PORTIONS OF THE OHIO VALLEY AND
LOWER GREAT LAKES. ADDITIONALLY...A LARGE AREA OF SCATTERED
SHOWERS WITH EMBEDDED THUNDERSTORMS WERE MOVING ACROSS THE
SOUTHEAST...TENNESSEE VALLEY...AND MID-ATLANTIC.

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL IN INCHES FROM 700 PM CST SUN DEC
06 THROUGH 900 PM CST TUE DEC 08...

...IOWA...
DES MOINES 10.8
CLIVE 3 SW 10.0
CORNING 10.0
GUTHRIE CENTER 9.5
ADEL 9.0
ATLANTIC 9.0
AUDUBON 9.0
MOUNT AYR 9.0
WATERLOO 9.0
LEON 8.5
WINTERSET 8.5
POLK CITY 3 S 8.4

...ILLINOIS...
ROCKFORD 4 NW 6.0
LOVES PARK 5.5
WOODSTOCK 5.5
MOUNT PROSPECT 4.0

...KANSAS...
MORROWVILLE 4 SSE 13.0
OKETO 3 W 13.0
LINCOLN 5 NE 12.0
SCANDIA 12.0
CONCORDIA 5 SSE 11.0
NE WATERVILLE 11.0
CORNING 2 W 9.0
HAYS 13 WNW 9.0
WEBBER 2.6 ENE 8.4
NORTON 0.4 N 8.2
BENNINGTON 2 SSW 8.0
SALINA 8.0
WAKEENEY 13 W 8.0
ELLSWORTH 5 SE 7.5
ABILENE 5 SSW 7.0
CATHERINE 7.0
GREAT BEND 7.0
LA CROSSE 7 E 7.0
LIEBENTHAL 7.0

...MINNESOTA...
CURRIE 4 N 5.0
NEW MARKET 4.5
FARMINGTON 4.0
OWATONNA 4.0
WASECA 4.0

...MISSOURI...
OREGON 10.0
BETHANY 8.0
MERCER 7.0
UNIONVILLE 7.0
COFFEY 5 W 6.0
GILMAN CITY 6.0
SAVANNAH 5.0

...NEBRASKA...
FAIRBURY 10.0
AUBURN 5 ESE 8.6
CRETE 8.5
BEATRICE 8.0
TECUMSEH 8.0
WEEPING WATER 8.0
WILBER 8.0
CALLAWAY 6.5
INDIANOLA 6.0
LYNCH 6.0
NEBRASKA CITY 6.0
OCONTO 6.0
OMAHA 6.0

...SOUTH DAKOTA...
SIOUX FALLS 6.0
MENNO 4.0

...WISCONSIN...
CORNUCOPIA 4 S 6.0
MENOMONIE 4.0

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL RAINFALL IN INCHES FROM 700 PM CST SUN DEC
06 THROUGH 900 PM CST TUE DEC 08...

...LOUISIANA...
NEW IBERIA/ACADIANA 6.71
JEANERETTE 6.34
SLIDELL 5.31
BATON ROUGE/RYAN MUNI ARPT 5.04
NEW ORLEANS/MOISANT 4.60
SLIDELL 3.47
LAFAYETTE RGNL ARPT 2.43

...MISSISSIPPI...
GULFPORT-BILOXI 2.74
KEESLER AFB/BILOXI 2.43
HATTIESBURG/LAUREL 2.40
JACKSON WFO 2.17

...TENNESSEE...
MEMPHIS INTL ARPT 2.06
JACKSON/MCKELLAR 2.01

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL FREEZING RAIN ICE AMOUNTS IN INCHES FROM
700 PM CST SUN DEC 06 THROUGH 900 PM CST TUE DEC 08...

...IOWA...
DAVENPORT 6 NE 0.25

...ILLINOIS...
ABINGDON 1 N 0.25

...SELECTED PEAK WIND GUSTS IN MILES PER HOUR EARLIER IN THE
EVENT...

...TEXAS...
HART 3 N 65
NORTHFIELD 1 S 65
AMARILLO 3 SSE 64
OLTON 6 S 63
SILVERTON 7 ESE 63
LEVELLAND 4 S 61
WAYSIDE 3 NNE 61
HEREFORD 60
TULIA 2 ENE 60
TURKEY 2 WSW 60
SUNDOWN 8 WSW 59
TIMBERCREEK CANYON 59
FLOYDADA 2 NNE 58

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL IN INCHES WHERE THE EVENT HAS
ENDED...

...ARIZONA...
FLAGSTAFF 7.8 SSW 30.4
WILLIAMS 0.4 SW 20.0
ASH FORK 4.9 SW 10.0
WILLIAMS 8.0
BELLEMONT 7.2
GRAND CANYON ARPT 3.0

...CALIFORNIA...
KIRKWOOD SKI AREA 48.0
ALPINE MEADOWS 45.0
SODA SPRINGS 40.0
KINGVALE 1.3 WSW 37.0
NORTHSTAR 36.0
CISCO 5 ENE 35.0
SOUTH LAKE TAHOE 8 SSW 31.0
HOMEWOOD 2 SE 27.0
PROSSER CREEK RESERVOIR 24.0
FAIR PLAY 2.8 ESE 19.0
POLLOCK PINES 0.1 E 16.0
VOLCANO 5.4 NE 15.5
MAMMOTH LAKES 14.0

...COLORADO...
PAGOSA SPRINGS 9.1 NNW 33.0
CARBONDALE 8.2 S 24.8
CRESTED BUTTE 6.2 N 24.5
DURANGO 24.0
BAYFIELD 7 N 23.5
DOLORES 22 NE 23.0
GREELEY 2.3 SE 22.0
PAGOSA SPRINGS 3 SE 22.0
CARBONDALE 7 S 21.0
MESA 6 S 21.0
BLACK CANYON VISITOR CE 19.0
BAYFIELD 0.8 SW 18.3
CREEDE 14 SW 18.0

...IDAHO...
WESTON 4.0
POCATELLO AIRPORT 3.7
BOISE 6.7 SE 3.5

...NEW MEXICO...
LAS VEGAS 8.4 NW 8.0
EL RITO 2.3 NW 6.0
YOUNGSVILLE 5.4 NE 6.0
ANGEL FIRE 10.2 SSE 5.5
SANTA FE 3.3 NE 5.5
TAOS PUEBLO 2.8 NW 5.2
GALLUP 8.1 NNW 4.8
TAOS 13 NW 4.0

...NEVADA...
HEAVENLY VALLEY 34.0
MT ROSE SKI AREA 23.0
CARSON CITY 1.3 NW 18.0
MINDEN 4.2 WSW 14.5
RENO 7.1 N 13.7
DAYTON 1.7 SW 13.0
SUN VALLEY 0.9 N 10.5
INDIAN HILLS 0.7 N 10.0
FALLON 0.6 ESE 9.3
SPARKS 7.5 N 9.0
SPRING CREEK 8.0

...UTAH...
VERDUE 8 WNW 25.0
SPRINGDELL 23.0
ORDERVILLE 19.0
NEW HARMONY 18.0
BLANDING 28 W 15.0
SALEM 1 W 14.0
BRIGHTON 1 N 12.0
HEBER CITY 12.0
OAK CITY 0.3 SSE 10.6
BOULDER 1.3 NNW 10.3
NORTH SALT LAKE 10.0
SPRINGVILLE 10.0

...WYOMING...
SAND LAKE 11.0
DIVIDE PEAK 9.0
NORTH FRENCH CREEK 9.0
SARATOGA 0.3 ESE 8.0
SOUTH BRUSH CREEK 7.0
YODER 6.5 SSE 7.0
LARAMIE 27.3 WSW 6.0
BURNS 8 NNE 4.5
ELK MOUNTAIN 2.1 S 4.4
CHEYENNE 26.7 NE 4.3
THAYNE 4.2 NNE 4.1

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL RAINFALL IN INCHES WHERE THE EVENT HAS
ENDED...

...ARIZONA...
BAGDAD 3.88
FLORENCE 9.1 NW 3.11
MAYER 0.4 WSW 2.75
PINE 0.9 SW 2.20
SEDONA 2.20
NEW RIVER 3.2 ENE 2.17
CAVE CREEK 7.7 ENE 2.06
PRESCOTT 16.2 NNW 2.04

...CALIFORNIA...
JOSHUA TREE 2.8 ENE 5.50
JAMUL 11.0 ESE 3.40
SANTEE 0.8 W 2.84
LYTLE CREEK RAWS 2.77
IDYLLWILD 1.8 NW 2.66
EL CAJON 0.7 S 2.40
HENSHAW DAM 2.36
JULIAN 2.36
POTRERO 2.27
SANTA YSABEL 2.17
LEMON GROVE 1.8 WNW 2.16
SAN DIEGO 6.1 W 2.12

...TEXAS...
GALVESTON 6.4 NE 2.25
GALVESTON/SCHOLES 2.18
DICKINSON 1.4 W 2.00


THE STORM SYSTEM WILL CONTINUE TO STRENGTHEN AS IT QUICKLY MOVES
ACROSS THE MIDDLE MISSISSIPPI VALLEY OVERNIGHT ON TUESDAY.
WIDESPREAD SNOWFALL TOTALS OF 4 TO 8 INCHES ARE EXPECTED ACROSS
THE MIDWEST AND GREAT LAKES REGIONS...WITH TOTALS GREATER THAN 12
INCHES POSSIBLE IN ISOLATED AREAS NORTHWEST OF THE LOW TRACK. THE
COMBINATION OF HEAVY SNOW AND STRONG WINDS WILL CAUSE POTENTIAL
BLIZZARD CONDITIONS ACROSS PORTIONS OF THE MIDDLE MISSISSIPPI
VALLEY AND GREAT LAKES. AS PRECIPITATION SPREADS NORTHWARD...SLEET
AND FREEZING RAIN WILL BECOME A THREAT ALONG THE CENTRAL
APPALACHIANS AND PORTIONS OF THE MID ATLANTIC. FLOODING WILL ALSO
BE A THREAT FOR THE NORTHERN MID-ATLANTIC COASTAL AREAS...WHERE 1
TO 2 INCHES OF PRECIPITATION ARE EXPECTED BY WEDNESDAY EVENING.

THE NEXT STORM SUMMARY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL
PREDICTION CENTER AT 300 AM CST. PLEASE REFER TO YOUR LOCAL
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THIS
EVENT.

GERHARDT
I think you'll find this very interesting, shows the weather channel snow map 3-6 in Jax..

Tornadodude would probably have wanted to go sailing during the white hurricane of Jan 1978 in Cleveland ;) Check out the pressure! It hit a min of 28.28" there. Link

And West Lafayette, IN the same day. Link

Note that there was a 30 mb pressure difference between West Lafayette, IN and Cleveland, OH at 4 am, Jan 26, 1978!

Quoting Patrap:
Sheesh,,maybe a 04 repeat..?


out 10thanustbcoldest...wasa pipe




is that map showing snow for are valley floors?? here in ca i see whit on the map for are valleys
Snowfall totals from the February 1973 storm:

Link


MESOSCALE DISCUSSION 2221
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
0938 PM CST TUE DEC 08 2009

AREAS AFFECTED...ERN NEB...NRN MO...FAR NERN KS...MUCH OF IA...SRN
MN

CONCERNING...BLIZZARD

VALID 090338Z - 090945Z

NORTH-NORTHWESTERLY WINDS ARE FORECAST TO STRENGTHEN THROUGH
12Z...WITH SUSTAINED WINDS AS HIGH AS 35 MPH AND GUSTS UP TO 40-50
MPH. SUBSTANTIAL BLOWING AND DRIFTING SNOW IS LIKELY WITH
VISIBILITIES REDUCED TO UNDER ONE QUARTER MILE.

NEGATIVELY TILTED UPPER TROUGH IS FORECAST TO LIFT NEWD FROM THE MID
MS VALLEY REGION INTO THE GREAT LAKES THROUGH 06-12Z. AS THIS TAKES
PLACE...SUBSTANTIAL DEEPENING OF THE LOW LEVEL CYCLONE IS FORECAST
TO OCCUR AS IT BEGINS TO OCCLUDE WHILE TRAVERSING ACROSS IL. SHORT
RANGE ENSEMBLE AND DETERMINISTIC MODEL GUIDANCE INDICATE THAT
SUSTAINED WINDS WEST OF THE LOW OVER ERN NEB/IA WILL APPROACH 35 MPH
DUE TO THE STRENGTHENING SURFACE PRESSURE GRADIENT. IN
ADDITION...FORECAST SOUNDINGS DEPICT 40-50 KT NLY FLOW DEVELOPING
NEAR THE TOP OF A SHALLOW /HALF KM DEEP/ WELL MIXED LAYER EXTENDING
ABOVE THE SURFACE...WHICH WILL FAVOR VERY STRONG WIND GUSTS. GIVEN
THE CONTINUED POTENTIAL FOR AT LEAST LIGHT SNOWFALL THROUGH THE
NIGHT...IN ADDITION TO THE SNOW COVERED GROUND...BLOWING AND
DRIFTING SNOW APPEARS LIKELY WITH VISIBILITIES REDUCED TO UNDER A
QUARTER MILE.

..GARNER.. 12/09/2009
I firmly believe that if the pattern continues, we can see snow here in Florida again, the storm track is crazy so far.. The rain/snow line did in fact touch the state of Florida when the last storm came through Friday Night.
Repost

546. spathy 10:41 PM EST on December 08, 2009
All those ...
FAA, CDC, USDA, ATF, GSA, GAO.
Should only be making recommendations to congress.
The elected officials should be the only ones who say yes or no to said regulations....

And now that you mention it.

FAA, CDC, USDA, ATF, GSA, GAO

Should all come under harsh scrutiny and defanging.

Are you so accustomed to breaking the constitutional rules that the constitution means nothing?
So even when it comes to our elected officials being in complete non control.
You have no problem with that?
What would you say to Newt Gingrich having control over the agency's that you now seem to have no problem the complete lack of any congressional checks and balances.
Come on folks.
Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi will not be in controll forever!
What happens when the next Republican (non Conservative)Richard Nixon takes office?
You going to be ok with it then?
Wake up!
Repost..

Snow from Coast to Coast Taz, Xmas Eve.

Santa's gonna need Rudoplh out front looks like
Quoting Patrap:
Snow from Coast to Coast Taz, Xmas Eve.

Santa's gonna need Rudoplh out front looks like




lol
my avatar is from my old house, Christmas Eve 1989 on St. Simons Island, GA.
Quoting Skyepony:
Oh Climate gate~ Remember yesterday..maybe Russian hackers. Today looking more like Russian ex-KGB.

This may turn out that the ones screaming ..you socialists, you shouldn't force corps & ag to stop harming us/enviroment ..while presenting stolen e-mails..maybe supporting the 'ol socialism propaganda machine.

And for those of us who follow the money pages, there's this:
Link
Quoting spathy:
All those ...
FAA, CDC, USDA, ATF, GSA, GAO.
Should only be making recommendations to congress.
The elected officials should be the only ones who say yes or no to said regulations....

And now that you mention it.

FAA, CDC, USDA, ATF, GSA, GAO

Should all come under harsh scrutiny and defanging.

Are you so accustomed to breaking the constitutional rules that the constitution means nothing?
So even when it comes to our elected officials being in complete non control.
You have no problem with that?
What would you say to Newt Gingrich having control over the agency's that you now seem to have no problem the complete lack of any congressional checks and balances.
Come on folks.
Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi will not be in controll forever!
What happens when the next Republican (non Conservative)Richard Nixon takes office?
You going to be ok with it then?
Wake up!


There you go again.
("The elected officials should be the only ones who say yes or no to said regulations") But they aren't and never have been.
("And now that you mention it.

FAA, CDC, USDA, ATF, GSA, GAO

Should all come under harsh scrutiny and defanging.") Maybe so, maybe not, but as it stands, what they do does not usurp Congress.
("Are you so accustomed to breaking the constitutional rules that the constitution means nothing?") Show me exactly how they are breaking constitutional rules. Guess who created these agencies and gave them their authority, yep, Congress.

You showed your hand that the whole issue with you is a conservative vs liberal issue. I have never stated where I stand on politics. You have taken your original constitutional statement, which I addressed, and now shown your true colors that it was really a political statement.
Quoting reedzone:
I firmly believe that if the pattern continues, we can see snow here in Florida again, the storm track is crazy so far.. The rain/snow line did in fact touch the state of Florida when the last storm came through Friday Night.


My luck it will be 1/10/10 - The morning of the Disney Marathon.
The Smoking Gun At Darwin Zero
Link

CRU, the gift that keeps on giving:

"The second question, the integrity of the data, is different. People say “Yes, they destroyed emails, and hid from Freedom of information Acts, and messed with proxies, and fought to keep other scientists’ papers out of the journals … but that doesn’t affect the data, the data is still good.” Which sounds reasonable."

"YIKES! Before getting homogenized, temperatures in Darwin were falling at 0.7 Celcius per century … but after the homogenization, they were warming at 1.2"

"Yikes again, double yikes! What on earth justifies that adjustment? How can they do that? We have five different records covering Darwin from 1941 on. They all agree almost exactly. Why adjust them at all? They’ve just added a huge artificial totally imaginary trend to the last half of the raw data! Now it looks like the IPCC diagram in Figure 1, all right … but a six degree per century trend? And in the shape of a regular stepped pyramid climbing to heaven? What’s up with that?"
Quoting reedzone:
Repost..



LOL 1989, part of the forehead hair explosion era, even for female weather forecasters.
Pcola
Political yes.
Party no!
I dont care what party is in office.
That is why checks and balance is a good thing.
The public can be arguing and voting back and forth for eons while unelected agency's do whatever the powers that be have at their whimsy.
Wake up!
and paves the way for the EPA to regulate CO2 as a pollutant. In the event Congress does not pass legislation to limit greenhouse gas emissions, the EPA now has the power to do that on its own.

=

YOUR VOTE IS MEANINGLESS!

Hello? ! ?

Read that and think about it.

Please.
Hey! MSN changed their home page and guess what is on the front of it tonight!

Link
The tide has turned.
Conspicuous consumption is on its way out.
Conscientious conservation is on its way in.
Ecological sustainability is a very old religion. And it is not blasphemous.
It is respectful, and yes, conservative.

In the event parents don't satisfactorily teach children correct from incorrect.
The Governmental educational system will teach them if congress does not act.

If whatever agency is not happy with congressional control.
That agency will decide the correct legislation!!!!

Thats MAYHEM!

Think down the road!

Please.
Quoting spathy:
Pcola
Political yes.
Party no!
I dont care what party is in office.
That is why checks and balance is a good thing.
The public can be arguing and voting back and forth for eons while unelected agency's do whatever the powers that be have at their whimsy.
Wake up!

Never said checks and balances was a bad thing. I believe it is extremely important. My comments were based on your misconception of the powers of Congress and your comment about the legality of what the EPA does.

I counter your "Wake up" with , Be correctly informed!

From the Constitution:
Article I, Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Amendment XI (1795)
The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.
I hope so Chicklit! But I remember articles like that in the 1990 recessions--conspicuous 80s excess was out! Then came the 90s boom...

in 2001 they said conspicuous consumption was out! Scaling back from the late 1990s boom....

We'll see how conspicuous consumption fares during the economic boom during Obama's second term ;)
567. Beautiful pics and great stories on the msn page.
I remember the 1989 event. They kept saying it was gonna snow in p'cola and I was so bummed to watch the radar returns die right before they got here.
I believe the EPA declaration is just an end-araound power grab because Crap and Tax is going nowhere fast.
Yes

The tide has turned.
Conspicuous consumption is on its way out.
Conscientious conservation is on its way in.
Ecological sustainability is a very old religion. And it is not blasphemous.
It is respectful, and yes, conservative.


Thats fine!

As long as its not legislated.

How many years until the clothing you are wearing in your Avatar is deemed non eco friendly.

That sounds just as ridiculous as congress cant overrule a non elected agency.

Mayhem precedes dictatorship.
Its one thing to have Gore and Company set up a "Carbon Credit" credit business that sells a product that people (companies) want to buy. Thats "Free-enterprise". I'm all for it.
Its another thing to set up the the business and then scare and/or hood-wink the world and get the Government to change the laws and MANDATE that they MUST do business with you. What a sweet deal if you can make it happen.
Gore has found a way and has been working towards it for years. Don't be blinded by ideology.
Good luck folks.
Spathy out!
Okay, so if the KGB are involved, then they're "hackers for hire" and not associated with the Russians who own the CO2 credits.
The whole point becomes moot if one admits we are in a culture war. And as we all know in wars, things get destroyed, including stuff like "carbon credits."
Hopefully, Congress will get around to addressing the jerry mandering on Wall Street, where people make money when they bet on things failing.

24 hour loop NOLA region



Quoting Chicklit:
Hey! MSN changed their home page and guess what is on the front of it tonight!

Link
The tide has turned.
Conspicuous consumption is on its way out.
Conscientious conservation is on its way in.
Ecological sustainability is a very old religion. And it is not blasphemous.
It is respectful, and yes, conservative.



Sounds a little like a repeat of the '70s. The pendulum swings one way, then the other. Usually, somewhere in the middle is where it really should be.
There's too much power and money from wall street for politicians to resist--I had been hoping for stronger reforms, but nothing substantive is being done.

When I lived in France for a year the French had a word for corrupt socialists intertwined with financiers--radishes. Red on the outside, but white (without principle) on the inside---and always sticking to the side of the bread that is buttered.
Pensacola Doug, are we supposed to understand your concept of "Gore?"
Is he to you like the elusive "John Galt" in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged.
"Who is John Galt?"
"Who is Al Gore?"
Quoting PcolaDan:


Sounds a little like a repeat of the '70s. The pendulum swings one way, then the other. Usually, somewhere in the middle is where it really should be.


No, not in the middle when things are out of whack. It goes the other way and gets worse before it gets better.

That's cute St. Simons. Always sticking to the side that is buttered....Anyway, got to go. Luv you guys.
Words can cut as deep as any blade and often more effectively.
Quoting Chicklit:
Pensacola Doug, are we supposed to understand your concept of "Gore?"
Is he to you like the elusive "John Galt" in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged.
"Who is John Galt?"
"Who is Al Gore?"


I couldn't care less what you do or don't understand.
Vietnam War and journalism


Al and Tipper Gore's wedding day, May 19, 1970 at the Washington National Cathedral




Gore with the 20th Engineer Brigade in Bien Hoa as a journalist with the paper, The Castle Courier.

In 1969, neither Gore nor his father was a supporter of the Vietnam War. However, as a college graduate, he could no longer defer being drafted into the U.S. military. In addition, his "low draft number assured that he would be called up soon."[26] In debating how to proceed, his father, Albert Gore, Sr., later recalled that Gore "sat around with his mother and I in the living room and talked about it. He said he didn't believe in the Vietnam War. I said, 'Well, it isn't given in our law for an individual to go contrary to the law.' We discussed all the various things young men were doing to dodge the draft."[26] Also according to his Senate biography, Gore's "mother said that she would support whatever he wanted to do 'including going to Canada with him.' "[26] The Washington Post later noted in 1999 that very few of his Harvard classmates went to Vietnam. Instead, "most of his peers at Harvard were looking for a way out, and finding one. Some took refuge in the National Guard or the reserves, options that might save them from Vietnam. A few resisted, became conscientious objectors or left for Canada."[25]


Gore has stated that he finally enlisted in the army for two reasons: he was concerned over the impact it would have upon his father's career and he did not want someone with fewer advantages than he to go in his place. Al Gore, Sr. was engaged in a difficult political campaign for the 1970 Senate election, which would likely have been adversely affected if his son did not enlist in the military.[27] Al Gore, Sr., had authorized American involvement in Vietnam by voting for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution in 1964, but by 1969 had become a vocal opponent of the war.[28] Thus according to the New York Times, the elder Gore appeared to some to be "too tolerant of social protest of all kinds and of change in general. Young Al worried that if he found a way around military service, he would be handing an issue to his father's opponents."[28]
Gore with the 20th Engineer Brigade in Bien Hoa as a journalist with the paper, The Castle Courier.

Gore also chose to enlist because he did not want someone to go in his place. Actor Tommy Lee Jones (a former housemate) later recalled Gore saying that "if he found a fancy way of not going, someone else would have to go in his place."[19][29] His Harvard advisor, Richard Neustadt, also stated that Gore, "decided that he would have to go and that he would have to go as an enlisted man because, he said, 'In Tennessee, that's what most people have to do.'"[27] In addition, Michael Roche, his editor for The Castle Courier, stated that "anybody who knew Al Gore in Vietnam knows he could have sat on his butt and he didn't."[28]
Going downhill now. I think I'll get out before it gets any worse. Night.
U Betcha...!

Quoting Chicklit:


No, not in the middle when things are out of whack. It goes the other way and gets worse before it gets better.


Didn't we just end up at the same point? :) Maybe my analogy was a little obscure. My somewhere in the middle was between the overindulgence without worrying about the consequences to the pre industrial age. ;)
When you turn on the light, the bogey man often turns out to be the wind moving through the curtains. Goodnight.
Jim Cantore is on the video reedzone posted from 1989. He had alot more hair!
584. You are awesome! Reality has it. Thank you!
Quoting reedzone:
I firmly believe that if the pattern continues, we can see snow here in Florida again, the storm track is crazy so far.. The rain/snow line did in fact touch the state of Florida when the last storm came through Friday Night.


I agree with you I've been watching the long range computer models and they have consistantly been hinting at a major cold snap just before Christmas combine with an active southern branch could spell alot of rain for Florida and Snow/ice in areas cold enough for frozen precip. Snow and ice could be a big problem for north Florida down the road not sure about Central Florida yet. We will just have to watch how this plays out.
"After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people."

So, by this logic water vapor, which is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2, is also a pollutant. Are we to now stop boiling pots of water on the stove?
Quoting xcool:



gfs KEEPING SHOW SNOW IN N.O slidell la ms


Wow... entire country covered in snow just about... and the worst of it over the east coast is centered right over me! Cross country skiing, here I come! :)


00z should be here shortly, i think:
Pat first time I have seen that upper level jet heading to the se in the gulf in a long time. I think this maybe a winter the south is going to remember.IMO
Quoting gordydunnot:
Pat first time I have seen that upper level jet heading to the se in the gulf in a long time. I think this maybe a winter the south is going to remember.IMO


Im of that view myself.
Tornadodude, I think you would have had fun watching this the night the white hurricane passed by with a pressure of 28.28" @ Cleveland. At 4 am that day there was a 30 mb pressure difference between Lafayette, IN and Cleveland, OH.

Link
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Tornadodude, I think you would have had fun watching this the night the white hurricane passed by with a pressure of 28.28" @ Cleveland. At 4 am that day there was a 30 mb pressure difference between Lafayette, IN and Cleveland, OH.

Link


wow that is impressive!

I really am hoping for some snow tomorrow, the GFS shows that I will get some snow, but we will see
Hey its not even Winter yet...This is just late Fall weather.
I hope you get some snow :)

Amazingly, at 8 am Jan 26 1978 there was a 33 mb pressure difference between West Lafayette, IN and Detroit, much closer.

Check out the visibilities at Lafayette that day.

Link

Link
Ich wundere mich, wo Grothar für die meisten des Tages gewesen ist. Ist Kopenhagen 50% unterhalb des Meeresspiegels?
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
I hope you get some snow :)

Amazingly, at 8 am Jan 26 1978 there was a 33 mb pressure difference between West Lafayette, IN and Detroit, much closer.

Check out the visibilities at Lafayette that day.

Link

Link


thats just simply incredible
Lafayette, Purdue University Airport
Lat: 40.43 Lon: -86.93 Elev: 623
Last Update on Dec 8, 11:54 pm EST

Light Rain Fog/Mist

38 °F
(3 °C)
Humidity: 86 %
Wind Speed: E 14 MPH
Barometer: 29.24" (990.5 mb)
Dewpoint: 34 °F (1 °C)
Wind Chill: 30 °F (-1 °C)
Visibility: 2.50 mi.
Possibly not a good sailing day ;)
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Possibly not a good sailing day ;)


true that!
my pressure here fell 2.3 MB in the last hour
my pressure is now 986MB, or 29.10 pa
Quoting tornadodude:
my pressure is now 986MB, or 29.10 pa
she bottoms out at 976 mb a powerhouse something wicked this way comes
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
she bottoms out at 976 mb a powerhouse something wicked this way comes


where is the low centered?

I'm assuming that is where the lowest pressure is
The temperature at Evansville at noon was 38, now it is 55
ya see the comma thats the centre trackin 48 degrees towards the ne
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
ya see the comma thats the centre trackin 48 degrees towards the ne


got it, it might track right over me, that would bring some impressive pressure here
my pressure is 984mb now
I find it quite interesting that the EPA says greenhouses gases are dangerous, yet 3 days after 9/11, they said the air was safe to breathe in NYC. There were untold amounts of mercury and asbestos still floating in the air weeks after the attacks. Just something to put out there. The gases shouldn't be igorned, though. Climate change is a serious matter.
Lafayette, Purdue University Airport
Lat: 40.43 Lon: -86.93 Elev: 623
Last Update on Dec 9, 1:54 am EST

Fog/Mist

42 °F
(6 °C)
Humidity: 85 %
Wind Speed: SE 7 MPH
Barometer: 29.09" (985.1 mb)
Dewpoint: 38 °F (3 °C)
Wind Chill: 38 °F (3 °C)
Visibility: 4.00 mi.
Quoting Patrap:
Vietnam War and journalism


Al and Tipper Gore's wedding day, May 19, 1970 at the Washington National Cathedral




Gore with the 20th Engineer Brigade in Bien Hoa as a journalist with the paper, The Castle Courier.

In 1969, neither Gore nor his father was a supporter of the Vietnam War. However, as a college graduate, he could no longer defer being drafted into the U.S. military. In addition, his "low draft number assured that he would be called up soon."[26] In debating how to proceed, his father, Albert Gore, Sr., later recalled that Gore "sat around with his mother and I in the living room and talked about it. He said he didn't believe in the Vietnam War. I said, 'Well, it isn't given in our law for an individual to go contrary to the law.' We discussed all the various things young men were doing to dodge the draft."[26] Also according to his Senate biography, Gore's "mother said that she would support whatever he wanted to do 'including going to Canada with him.' "[26] The Washington Post later noted in 1999 that very few of his Harvard classmates went to Vietnam. Instead, "most of his peers at Harvard were looking for a way out, and finding one. Some took refuge in the National Guard or the reserves, options that might save them from Vietnam. A few resisted, became conscientious objectors or left for Canada."[25]


Gore has stated that he finally enlisted in the army for two reasons: he was concerned over the impact it would have upon his father's career and he did not want someone with fewer advantages than he to go in his place. Al Gore, Sr. was engaged in a difficult political campaign for the 1970 Senate election, which would likely have been adversely affected if his son did not enlist in the military.[27] Al Gore, Sr., had authorized American involvement in Vietnam by voting for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution in 1964, but by 1969 had become a vocal opponent of the war.[28] Thus according to the New York Times, the elder Gore appeared to some to be "too tolerant of social protest of all kinds and of change in general. Young Al worried that if he found a way around military service, he would be handing an issue to his father's opponents."[28]
Gore with the 20th Engineer Brigade in Bien Hoa as a journalist with the paper, The Castle Courier.

Gore also chose to enlist because he did not want someone to go in his place. Actor Tommy Lee Jones (a former housemate) later recalled Gore saying that "if he found a fancy way of not going, someone else would have to go in his place."[19][29] His Harvard advisor, Richard Neustadt, also stated that Gore, "decided that he would have to go and that he would have to go as an enlisted man because, he said, 'In Tennessee, that's what most people have to do.'"[27] In addition, Michael Roche, his editor for The Castle Courier, stated that "anybody who knew Al Gore in Vietnam knows he could have sat on his butt and he didn't."[28]


Sad about the horrible things said here about him not one would probably measure up to his example.


982mb now
Tornado Warning

TORNADO WARNING
NCC061-090830-
/O.NEW.KMHX.TO.W.0033.091209T0751Z-091209T0830Z/

BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED
TORNADO WARNING
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEWPORT/MOREHEAD CITY NC
251 AM EST WED DEC 9 2009

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN NEWPORT HAS ISSUED A

* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
DUPLIN COUNTY IN EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA...
THIS INCLUDES THE CITIES OF...WARSAW...WALLACE...

* UNTIL 330 AM EST

* AT 248 AM EST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 16 MILES WEST OF
ROSE HILL...OR 18 MILES WEST OF WALLACE...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 35
MPH.

* THE TORNADO WILL BE NEAR...
6 MILES NORTHWEST OF ROSE HILL BY 310 AM EST...
6 MILES SOUTHEAST OF WARSAW BY 315 AM EST...
KENANSVILLE BY 325 AM EST...
7 MILES SOUTHWEST OF KORNEGAY AND 8 MILES NORTHWEST OF BEULAVILLE
BY 330 AM EST...

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

WHEN A TORNADO WARNING IS ISSUED BASED ON DOPPLER RADAR...IT MEANS
THAT STRONG ROTATION HAS BEEN DETECTED IN THE STORM. A TORNADO MAY
ALREADY BE ON THE GROUND...OR IS EXPECTED TO DEVELOP SHORTLY. IF YOU
ARE IN THE PATH OF THIS DANGEROUS STORM...MOVE INDOORS AND TO THE
LOWEST LEVEL OF THE BUILDING. STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS. IF DRIVING...DO
NOT SEEK SHELTER UNDER A HIGHWAY OVERPASS.

THE SAFEST PLACE TO BE DURING A TORNADO IS IN A BASEMENT. GET UNDER A
WORKBENCH OR OTHER PIECE OF STURDY FURNITURE. IF NO BASEMENT IS
AVAILABLE...SEEK SHELTER ON THE LOWEST FLOOR OF THE BUILDING IN AN
INTERIOR HALLWAY OR ROOM SUCH AS A CLOSET. USE BLANKETS OR PILLOWS TO
COVER YOUR BODY AND ALWAYS STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS.

IF IN MOBILE HOMES OR VEHICLES...EVACUATE THEM AND GET INSIDE A
SUBSTANTIAL SHELTER. IF NO SHELTER IS AVAILABLE...LIE FLAT IN THE
NEAREST DITCH OR OTHER LOW SPOT AND COVER YOUR HEAD WITH YOUR HANDS.

&&

PLEASE REPORT SEVERE WEATHER TO THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BY
CALLING TOLL FREE...1-800-889-6889...WHEN YOU CAN DO SO SAFELY.

LAT...LON 3489 7815 3503 7816 3517 7794 3515 7790
3517 7784 3514 7778 3511 7775 3501 7775
3500 7773 3475 7769 3471 7799 3472 7801
3471 7814 3474 7819
TIME...MOT...LOC 0750Z 241DEG 32KT 3480 7829

$$
28.99in, 982mb,

this is one hell of a system
28.97in, 981mb

Quoting JohnnyJean:
Lots of climate data now available freely from
UKMO site here:
raw weather station data
have fun!


Sadly, by their own admission, much of the data has been modified.

It is NOT raw by any stretch of the imagination.

Fictional is a better description.
----------------------------------


Ah that is true, it is processed in the sense that it is as close to meaningful as is possible..but its a massive exaggeration to say it is fictional weather ... to be scientifically consistent you have to process data to make it meaningful all observations have biases, too warm or too cold.
some obs are just plain wrong.

In the more tangible world of data assimilation into operational forecast systems, there is an enormous effort
to get rid of data that is simply bad, human error, doddgy kit, bad feeds. Injection of that data into your NWP computer model would make for an awful forecast. There is also known biases in data that need correcting for, again that would play havoc with your forecast.
indeed ... you would probably find if they did not correct the data the urban heat island effect would actually exaggerate the observed warming effect not the other way around.

so yes i apologise my post was misleading the data is not at all raw, but the true raw data is as good as useless without knowing how to correct for it , the data released is as close to meaningful data as your going to get realistically.
if the data happened to say the trend was the opposite I'm betting there would be very few complaints :P
their explanations look pretty fair,
they do try to answer many many questions , the coverage is not bad, it ain't perfect and they try to answer those imperfections, but nothing is perfect in the observational world :-)
far from it!

i guess your essentially questioning the correction process, well that is why it has to go to independent review. and that is why the fact the it is good to have a number of different such data sets and that each of these go to the review process. If the independent analysis of the data seriously diverged then there would be a serious problem, but thus far they don't.

The other issues is the calculation of the error bars!, that's no mean feat neither people
seem to forget that aspect :-)

again I apologise for dealing in absolutes, the word raw is very wrong. But it could be replaced with reasonable :P



628. IKE
Denver, Colorado (Airport)
Updated: 56 min 0 sec ago
Clear
-13 °F

Clear
Windchill: -31 °F
Humidity: 78%
Dew Point: -18 °F
Wind: 9 mph from the SSE
Pressure: 30.08 in (Falling)
Visibility: 10.0 miles
UV: 0 out of 16
Clouds:
Clear -
(Above Ground Level)
Elevation: 5430 ft
Quoting IKE:
Denver, Colorado (Airport)
Updated: 56 min 0 sec ago
Clear
-13 °F

Clear
Windchill: -31 °F
Humidity: 78%
Dew Point: -18 °F
Wind: 9 mph from the SSE
Pressure: 30.08 in (Falling)
Visibility: 10.0 miles
UV: 0 out of 16
Clouds:
Clear -
(Above Ground Level)
Elevation: 5430 ft


Bit nippy over there.
630. IKE
Quoting TheCaneWhisperer:


Bit nippy over there.


Definitely not a good time to go for a jog.

Global cooling?
631. IKE
TORNADO WATCH OUTLINE UPDATE FOR WT 802
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
430 AM EST WED DEC 9 2009

TORNADO WATCH 802 IS IN EFFECT UNTIL 900 AM EST FOR THE
FOLLOWING LOCATIONS

FLC059-131-091400-
/O.NEW.KWNS.TO.A.0802.091209T0930Z-091209T1400Z/

FL
. FLORIDA COUNTIES INCLUDED ARE

HOLMES WALTON
Quoting JohnnyJean:
Quoting JohnnyJean:
Lots of climate data now available freely from
UKMO site here:
raw weather station data
have fun!


Sadly, by their own admission, much of the data has been modified.

It is NOT raw by any stretch of the imagination.

Fictional is a better description.
----------------------------------


Ah that is true, it is processed in the sense that it is as close to meaningful as is possible..but its a massive exaggeration to say it is fictional weather ... to be scientifically consistent you have to process data to make it meaningful all observations have biases, too warm or too cold.
some obs are just plain wrong.

In the more tangible world of data assimilation into operational forecast systems, there is an enormous effort
to get rid of data that is simply bad, human error, doddgy kit, bad feeds. Injection of that data into your NWP computer model would make for an awful forecast. There is also known biases in data that need correcting for, again that would play havoc with your forecast.
indeed ... you would probably find if they did not correct the data the urban heat island effect would actually exaggerate the observed warming effect not the other way around.

so yes i apologise my post was misleading the data is not at all raw, but the true raw data is as good as useless without knowing how to correct for it , the data released is as close to meaningful data as your going to get realistically.
if the data happened to say the trend was the opposite I'm betting there would be very few complaints :P
their explanations look pretty fair,
they do try to answer many many questions , the coverage is not bad, it ain't perfect and they try to answer those imperfections, but nothing is perfect in the observational world :-)
far from it!

i guess your essentially questioning the correction process, well that is why it has to go to independent review. and that is why the fact the it is good to have a number of different such data sets and that each of these go to the review process. If the independent analysis of the data seriously diverged then there would be a serious problem, but thus far they don't.

The other issues is the calculation of the error bars!, that's no mean feat neither people
seem to forget that aspect :-)

again I apologise for dealing in absolutes, the word raw is very wrong. But it could be replaced with reasonable :P






Added - I assume you believe in statistical method.

Even raw unique "raw data" is subject to error and distortion. Like - placement of thermometers. By creating databases with statistical methods using proxies, error of the set is reduced with each added and evaluated source.

For a large area it would be like getting a more accurate temperature from a average than from any thermometer reading.

It wouldn't be an observed temp, but it would be a more accurate reading than any of the observed readings.

As for the data used Dr M provided a link above:

"All these data came from National Meteorological Services, and the originals are still there for anyone to access. Indeed other groups such as GISS and NOAA have independently accessed these data and independently reproduced our results."


Hang on, it is gonna get interesting.

634. P451
Getting dumped on herein NJ.

Good Morning,
It's a windy day on Cape Fear NC

CORMP ILM2 Wrightsville Beach Nearshore, NC
Last update: 6:01 AM EST on 12/9
Air Temperature: 66.7 deg F
Wind From Direction: SSW (210 deg from N)
Wind Speed: 33.3 mph (29.0 knots)
Wind Gust: 45.4 mph (39.5 knots)
Air Pressure: 1004.8 mb
Significant Wave Height: 7.94 feet
Dominant Wave Period: 8.33 seconds
Significant Wave To Direction: 141 deg from N
Average Wave Period: 6.13 seconds
636. P451
Good Morning...
Good morning. While my relatives and friends up north are getting clobbered, we're looking at potential record highs of 86/87 here today and tomorrow, two weeks before Christmas. Link
Margaritanog, anyone?
The following commentary is by Atmospheric Scientist and Hurricane forecasting specialist Dr. William Gray. Gray is the renowned hurricane forecaster and Emeritus Professor of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University (CSU).

Puncturing the Climate Balloon

By Dr. Bill Gray

December 8, 2009


Had I not devoted my entire career of over half-a-century to the study and forecasting of meteorological and climate events I would have likely been concerned over the possibility of humans causing serious global climate degradation.

There has been an unrelenting quarter century of one-sided indoctrination of the western world by the media and by various scientists and governments concerning a coming carbon dioxide (CO_2 ) induced global warming disaster. These warming scenarios have been orchestrated by a combination of environmentalists, vested interest scientists wanting larger federal grants and publicity, the media which profits from doomsday scenario reporting, governmental bureaucrats who want more power over our lives, and socialists who want to level-out global living standards. These many alarmist groups appear to have little concern over whether their global warming prognostications are accurate, however. And they most certainly are not. The alarmists believe they will be able to scare enough of our citizens into believing their propaganda that the public will be willing to follow their advice on future energy usage and agree to a lowering of their standard of living in the name of climate salvation.

Rising levels of CO_2 are not near the threat these alarmists have portrayed them to be. There has yet to be a honest and broad scientific debate on the basic science of CO_2 's influence on global temperature. The global climate models predicting large amounts of global warming for a doubling of CO_2 are badly flawed. They should never have been used to establish government climate policy.

The last century's global warming of about 1 degree F is not a consequence of human activities. This warming is primarily the result of a multi-century changes in the globe's deep ocean circulation. These ocean current changes have lead to a small and gradual increase in the globe's temperature. We are coming out of the Little Ice Age and into a generally warmer climate state. This is akin to the warmer global climate of the Medieval Period. We can do nothing but adapt to such long period natural temperature changes.

The recent 'ClimateGate' revelations coming out of the UK University of East Anglia are but the tip of a giant iceberg of a well organized international climate warming conspiracy that has been gathering momentum for the last 25 years. This conspiracy would become much more manifest if all the e-mails of the publically funded climate research groups of the US and of foreign governments were ever made public.

The disastrous economic consequences of restricting CO_2 emissions from the present by as much as 20 percent by 2020 and 80 percent by 2050 (as being proposed in Copenhagen) have yet to be digested by the general public. Such CO_2 output decreases would cause very large increases in our energy costs, a lowering of our standard of living, and do nothing of significance to improve our climate.

The Cap-and-Trade bill presently before Congress, the likely climate agreements coming out of the Copenhagen Conference, and the EPA's just announced decision to treat CO_2 as a pollutant represents a grave threat to the industrial world's continued economic development. We should not allow these proposals to restrict our economic growth. Any United Nations climate bill our country might sign would act as an infringement on our country's sovereignty.

SQUAK 633,
I'm looking at the drought blob in southern California and remember the Polar Express hit there recently (a northern pinapple express)that caused flash flooding. When the rivers in that crescent are above their 75% flow and some above 90% and it is classed a sever drought? What am I missing?

Water vapor is the biggest greenhouse gas, the one that traps the most heat, right? Now congress is calling THAT a pollutant? Either I need to get a better definition or Congress needs to be more specific.
Quoting JohnnyJean:
Quoting JohnnyJean:
Lots of climate data now available freely from
UKMO site here:
raw weather station data
have fun!


Sadly, by their own admission, much of the data has been modified.

It is NOT raw by any stretch of the imagination.

Fictional is a better description.
----------------------------------


Ah that is true, it is processed in the sense that it is as close to meaningful as is possible..but its a massive exaggeration to say it is fictional weather ... to be scientifically consistent you have to process data to make it meaningful all observations have biases, too warm or too cold.
some obs are just plain wrong.

In the more tangible world of data assimilation into operational forecast systems, there is an enormous effort
to get rid of data that is simply bad, human error, doddgy kit, bad feeds. Injection of that data into your NWP computer model would make for an awful forecast. There is also known biases in data that need correcting for, again that would play havoc with your forecast.
indeed ... you would probably find if they did not correct the data the urban heat island effect would actually exaggerate the observed warming effect not the other way around.

so yes i apologise my post was misleading the data is not at all raw, but the true raw data is as good as useless without knowing how to correct for it , the data released is as close to meaningful data as your going to get realistically.
if the data happened to say the trend was the opposite I'm betting there would be very few complaints :P
their explanations look pretty fair,
they do try to answer many many questions , the coverage is not bad, it ain't perfect and they try to answer those imperfections, but nothing is perfect in the observational world :-)
far from it!

i guess your essentially questioning the correction process, well that is why it has to go to independent review. and that is why the fact the it is good to have a number of different such data sets and that each of these go to the review process. If the independent analysis of the data seriously diverged then there would be a serious problem, but thus far they don't.

The other issues is the calculation of the error bars!, that's no mean feat neither people
seem to forget that aspect :-)

again I apologise for dealing in absolutes, the word raw is very wrong. But it could be replaced with reasonable :P

Nicely put, and thanks for taking the time and for being so thoughtful.

In the final analysis, the raw data, with all its warts and carbuncles must be preserved, and that exact same data must be available for any and all who wish to have it.

If there are flaws in the data, then clarify those flaws and describe what possible solutions there might be to deal with them. This idea that is okay to rush headlong into making corrections is just dumb.

Make the graphs and all those pretty drawings, they can adjust copies of the data all they want, just don't alter the 'original' data in any way.

I cannot blame you for assuming the data was raw, after all that is the inference they intended when they presented the data in the first place. Only by digging deeper into their notes at the bottom of the page does one find that the data was not raw. They counted on the sheep not looking and the sheepdogs, well they don't count.


Big Thumbs up for Dr Gray!
It looks like a nasty day in Florida. Tampa is covered by fog. It's already in the 70's.
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Big Thumbs up for Dr Gray!


I just got in this morning... What did Dr. Gray do?
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Going downhill now. I think I'll get out before it gets any worse. Night.


Sorry, just catching up on the blog. Yes Doug, God forbid you have to read anything that shows Al Gore is actually more of a patriot than any of the morons who keep criticizing him for no reason.
Remember . . . The most effective greenhouse gas is - WATER VAPOR.

I suppose they think that is harmful to our health too! Give us a break!

All this nonsense will only deepen the worldwide depression.

I desperately hope Copenhagen falls flat!
For those who missed it:

The economics of 350
Quoting hurricanejunky:


Sorry, just catching up on the blog. Yes Doug, God forbid you have to read anything that shows Al Gore is actually more of a patriot than any of the morons who keep criticizing him for no reason.


I don't dislike Al Gore, in fact, I voted for him in 2000 (you can't blame all of us Floridians, some of us KNOW how to vote), but some elevate the man to sainthood status and that's not right either.
Quoting jpritch:
So, 5 parts per thousand, or 5000 parts per million isn't so good for those unused to such concentrations.

At extended exposures of 5000 PPM you start to see effects that take a long time to recover from, and that may in some cases not be reversible. You will see those even in people who have adapted to a high CO2 environment, in that they don't experience the kind of immediately unpleasant things the rest of us do.

There are jobs where regular exposure in the 1-3 percent range are not uncommon - submariners, for example. They often show retinal damage and decreased night and color vision, in addition the kinds things I mentioned before. Usually that level of exposure doesn't kill them, though, obviously.

If you or I were subjected to that, we'd probably be breathing really heavily and get a nasty headache, then get a kind of narcosis.

How does that square with the following observation from WIKI

"The permanent gases in gas we exhale are roughly 4% to 5% carbon dioxide and 4% to 5% less oxygen than was inhaled."

Be very interesting to see what the PPM's are in the average bedroom after two adults slept in it overnight. Windows closed for security, cracks caulked to save energy, weather outside just cool enough to need neither a/c or heat and the door closed for privacy. Room size: 10x15x8 - 1200 cubic feet of air - 240 cubic feet of oxygen.

With every breath that 20% oxygen goes down by 5% in that volume of air breathed into their lungs. Hmmmm.

Comments anyone?
Quoting tornadodude:
The temperature at Evansville at noon was 38, now it is 55


Your going into the deep freeze now and your weather will get colder from here on out.
My house is on fire. I'd put it out but all I have is a CO2 fire extinguisher and I don't want to harm the environment.

Quoting GordoNBrooke:
"After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people."

So, by this logic water vapor, which is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2, is also a pollutant. Are we to now stop boiling pots of water on the stove?


Oh no, the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide!
Quoting CaneWarning:


I don't dislike Al Gore, in fact, I voted for him in 2000 (you can't blame all of us Floridians, some of us KNOW how to vote), but some elevate the man to sainthood status and that's not right either.


I absolutely agree. I don't elevate him to sainthood either but I also don't think he deserves much of the criticism he receives. He isn't forcing anyone to do anything, he is just trying to educate the public about the danger that climate change poses to our planet. I think that's a fine message. Even if it didn't pose a danger to the planet just the fact that it motivates people to care for the environment would be enough for me. I think most of the hostility directed at Al Gore is purely political. Any ex-politicians on the right doing any Nobel peace prize winning environmental work? Uh, no.
does anyone know what percentage of human CO2 emmissions come from breathing?

Maybe it's time for a little government-authorized thinning of the herd?

I LOVE big government!
Quoting hurricanejunky:


I absolutely agree. I don't elevate him to sainthood either but I also don't think he deserves much of the criticism he receives. He isn't forcing anyone to do anything, he is just trying to educate the public about the danger that climate change poses to our planet. I think that's a fine message. Even if it didn't pose a danger to the planet just the fact that it motivates people to care for the environment would be enough for me. I think most of the hostility directed at Al Gore is purely political. Any ex-politicians on the right doing any Nobel peace prize winning environmental work? Uh, no.


I think many people have issues with him too because of the perceived hypocrisy. Sometimes his actions do not match his words. Kind of like when former Presidential candidate John Edwards built his massive home in NC. Actions should match your words. I know John Edwards received a lot of attention for that.
Quoting BobinTampa:
does anyone know what percentage of human CO2 emmissions come from breathing?

Maybe it's time for a little government-authorized thinning of the herd?

I LOVE big government!


It's coming, just give it time.
Hurricane predictions today!!!!!!!!!!1
Wow that is one powerful system.

Gainesville, FL had a 100% chance of rain for today when I left work yesterday. Now it is back down to 70%. :-(
I like it when the weather can be 100% right. Looking at the radar, it would have been.

calusakat 649
If you seal up a bedroom like a submarine with no gas exchange, you would have issues without scrubbers. Not only does oxygen decrease and CO2 increase but humidity is an issue. Another issue with your bedroom scenario is that the ratio of lung exchange volume to total room volume is small. Even a single breath is not a full lung volume. Lastly, most building materials and construction techniques still allow gas exchange both within the house and with the outside.
Fliping over a canoe in the water or breathing in a diving bell for a while shows the effects of rebreathed air quickly.

Hurricanejunkie writes:

Yes Doug, don't be blinded by ideology, words to live by.

I agree and I'm not but you wouldn;t know that..


What laws have been enacted that Al Gore is profiting from? Just curious...

I'm refering to the pending "Cap and Trade" legislation

I assume you were outraged when the Bush administration was awarding no-bid contracts to Haliburton and other ripoff artists that proceeded to war profiteer and make OBSCENE profits, sometimes at the expense of the men and women in the military. Now THAT was a hood-winking. I'm glad your outrage doesn't discriminate.


Now you're just being insulting. I have no love for the policies of GWB and his cronies.
We never discussed that issue here. You are just assuming. Your hate of the Bush administration seems to have blinded you to what is really going on. In you latest post, another insult. Apparently being critical of Gore makes one a "moron".

I see that insanity and craziness is still running rampant in the blog. Hopefully the new Blog will help :)
661. unlikely.

LOL
663. IKE
Quoting Orcasystems:
I see that insanity and craziness is still running rampant in the blog. Hopefully the new Blog will help :)


It won't... Dr. M will post the 2010 hurricane predictions from Dr. Gray and also....gw from copenhagen:(
Quoting IKE:


It won't... Dr. M will post the 2010 hurricane predictions from Dr. Grey and also....gw from copenhagen:(


Want to trade weather Ike??

Quoting Orcasystems:
I see that insanity and craziness is still running rampant in the blog. Hopefully the new Blog will help :)


Nah, as long as there is a subject with differing opinions it'll be like this.
I can disagree without being disagreeable.
Quoting CaneWarning:


Nah, as long as there is a subject with differing opinions it'll be like this.


There are differing opinions.. but I don't see much rational dialogue. From either the Doctor.. or the patients.
Quoting Orcasystems:


There are differing opinions.. but I don't see much rational dialogue. From either the Doctor.. or the patients.


It's GW, what do you expect? LOL
Quoting CaneWarning:


It's GW, what do you expect? LOL


I hate to say it... but after a few blogs like this for the last few weeks.. I miss JFV, he sounded more rational then some of the posts
Does it make any sense to put someone in charge of fighting climate change that doesn't believe it even exists?
If you need a bridge built, you ask the guy that has built bridges the best or longest to lead it, NOT the person that says "that'll never work" or "just keep using my ferry service, it is safer".
Who would be the best person to lead the CO2 exchange? England is working hard on it.
Link

anyone want to trade me? hi 84 today~
Quoting Buhdog:
Link

anyone want to trade me? hi 84 today~


Yes. look at post 664
Quoting biff4ugo:
Wow that is one powerful system.

Gainesville, FL had a 100% chance of rain for today when I left work yesterday. Now it is back down to 70%. :-(
I like it when the weather can be 100% right. Looking at the radar, it would have been.

calusakat 649
If you seal up a bedroom like a submarine with no gas exchange, you would have issues without scrubbers. Not only does oxygen decrease and CO2 increase but humidity is an issue. Another issue with your bedroom scenario is that the ratio of lung exchange volume to total room volume is small. Even a single breath is not a full lung volume. Lastly, most building materials and construction techniques still allow gas exchange both within the house and with the outside.
Fliping over a canoe in the water or breathing in a diving bell for a while shows the effects of rebreathed air quickly.


Still, what are the PPM's after sleeping all night. Just remember that the guidelines for the room are those that many of us do today.

Consider also, the size of the molecule affects how fast it moves through a material. Carbon dioxide is a much larger molecule than simply oxygen.

So, back to the $64,000 question. What are the PPM's after a good nights sleep?


674. IKE
Quoting Orcasystems:


Want to trade weather Ike??



LOL....nope...I've got 70.5 degrees and my AC running as I type.
Quoting Orcasystems:


I hate to say it... but after a few blogs like this for the last few weeks.. I miss JFV, he sounded more rational then some of the posts


Has he resurfaced yet?
Sorry.

Will disengage, and leave the Craziness.
.
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Hurricanejunkie writes:

Yes Doug, don't be blinded by ideology, words to live by.

I agree and I'm not but you wouldn;t know that..


What laws have been enacted that Al Gore is profiting from? Just curious...

I'm refering to the pending "Cap and Trade" legislation

I assume you were outraged when the Bush administration was awarding no-bid contracts to Haliburton and other ripoff artists that proceeded to war profiteer and make OBSCENE profits, sometimes at the expense of the men and women in the military. Now THAT was a hood-winking. I'm glad your outrage doesn't discriminate.


Now you're just being insulting. I have no love for the policies of GWB and his cronies.
We never discussed that issue here. You are just assuming. Your hate of the Bush administration seems to have blinded you to what is really going on. In you latest post, another insult. Apparently being critical of Gore makes one a "moron".



You really felt the need to re-post this? It is you who is blinded by ideology which is why I felt the need to reinforce it at the beginning of my original reply. Talk about the pot and the kettle. Al Gore has done nothing to you. The only logical explanation for your deep seated hatred of the man HAS to be political, thus ideology is blinding you. I am not BLINDED by hatred for the Bush administration but I probably should be. When someone is responsible for thousands of American lives lost on their watch (much of it preventable) and they don't even get a slap on the wrist, I'd say that might warrant some blinding hatred. That's another debate, however. Being critical of someone is only moronic if it's unfounded. I have not yet seen a good reason come from anyone on here to warrant the criticism of Al Gore. If someone on your side of the fence were doing worthwhile environmental work I'd be the first to give recognition. The closest thing to that might be T Boone Pickens but he isn't a Republican anymore for obvious reasons. The only thing the right wants to do is cast doubt, be derisive and thumb their nose at us "tree huggers" not come up with any solutions. Just my opinion. We obviously have to agree to disagree because this bickering is not really getting us anywhere.
LMAO @ 667&669. You're on a role this morning, sir! LOL
Quoting IKE:


LOL....nope...I've got 70.5 degrees and my AC running as I type.


You want AC. just go out and look at my ponds.. they are skating rinks.
Good morning. I've always tried to avoid discussing politics and religion but now there's GW to add to the list of do not discuss. So what do we talk about hmmm..I know the weather:) I'm sure we can all agree on that LOL!

It's 72 and cloudy with a 70% chance of rain in Melrose, FL :)
674. with 70 degree temps, why are you running the A/C? humidity control or allergies? :)
Quoting Orcasystems:


I hate to say it... but after a few blogs like this for the last few weeks.. I miss JFV, he sounded more rational then some of the posts


That's FUNNY!
Ms. Cleo not to be as bad as originally thought...



Quoting pearlandaggie:
LMAO @ 667&669. You're on a role this morning, sir! LOL


Already on my second cup.. no telling how the rest of the day will go :) I have been watching, but not even bothering to post the last few weeks.. its been insane in here.

I also blew up a laptop and had to wait and reload a new one
685. IKE
Quoting Orcasystems:


There are differing opinions.. but I don't see much rational dialogue. From either the Doctor.. or the patients.


Just a lot of arguing back and forth. Might as well copy and paste your opinion and keep posting it every hour.
686. IKE
Quoting pearlandaggie:
674. with 70 degree temps, why are you running the A/C? humidity control or allergies? :)


Because it's 80 degrees inside and humid.
686. i figured that was the case! :)
Quoting TomJonesAL:
The following commentary is by Atmospheric Scientist and Hurricane forecasting specialist Dr. William Gray. Gray is the renowned hurricane forecaster and Emeritus Professor of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University (CSU).

Puncturing the Climate Balloon

By Dr. Bill Gray

December 8, 2009


Had I not devoted my entire career of over half-a-century to the study and forecasting of meteorological and climate events I would have likely been concerned over the possibility of humans causing serious global climate degradation.

There has been an unrelenting quarter century of one-sided indoctrination of the western world by the media and by various scientists and governments concerning a coming carbon dioxide (CO_2 ) induced global warming disaster. These warming scenarios have been orchestrated by a combination of environmentalists, vested interest scientists wanting larger federal grants and publicity, the media which profits from doomsday scenario reporting, governmental bureaucrats who want more power over our lives, and socialists who want to level-out global living standards. These many alarmist groups appear to have little concern over whether their global warming prognostications are accurate, however. And they most certainly are not. The alarmists believe they will be able to scare enough of our citizens into believing their propaganda that the public will be willing to follow their advice on future energy usage and agree to a lowering of their standard of living in the name of climate salvation.

Rising levels of CO_2 are not near the threat these alarmists have portrayed them to be. There has yet to be a honest and broad scientific debate on the basic science of CO_2 's influence on global temperature. The global climate models predicting large amounts of global warming for a doubling of CO_2 are badly flawed. They should never have been used to establish government climate policy.

The last century's global warming of about 1 degree F is not a consequence of human activities. This warming is primarily the result of a multi-century changes in the globe's deep ocean circulation. These ocean current changes have lead to a small and gradual increase in the globe's temperature. We are coming out of the Little Ice Age and into a generally warmer climate state. This is akin to the warmer global climate of the Medieval Period. We can do nothing but adapt to such long period natural temperature changes.

The recent 'ClimateGate' revelations coming out of the UK University of East Anglia are but the tip of a giant iceberg of a well organized international climate warming conspiracy that has been gathering momentum for the last 25 years. This conspiracy would become much more manifest if all the e-mails of the publically funded climate research groups of the US and of foreign governments were ever made public.

The disastrous economic consequences of restricting CO_2 emissions from the present by as much as 20 percent by 2020 and 80 percent by 2050 (as being proposed in Copenhagen) have yet to be digested by the general public. Such CO_2 output decreases would cause very large increases in our energy costs, a lowering of our standard of living, and do nothing of significance to improve our climate.

The Cap-and-Trade bill presently before Congress, the likely climate agreements coming out of the Copenhagen Conference, and the EPA's just announced decision to treat CO_2 as a pollutant represents a grave threat to the industrial world's continued economic development. We should not allow these proposals to restrict our economic growth. Any United Nations climate bill our country might sign would act as an infringement on our country's sovereignty.



Can you provide a link to where you obtained this article. It is an attention grabing article especially coming from Dr Gray.
It's 76 degrees here but with 94% humidity and forecast highs in the mid 80's I think the A/C may see some action today! Anyone here in Iowa right now?
Quoting IKE:


Just a lot of arguing back and forth. Might as well copy and paste your opinion and keep posting it every hour.


Good god no... if I posted my opinion of this whole thing (GW) I would get hounded off the blog by 50% of the free radicals
Quoting Orcasystems:


Good god no... if I posted my opinion of this whole thing (GW) I would get hounded off the blog by 50% of the free radicals


We've got all kinds of opinions already flying around and everyone seems to get their say.
692. IKE
Quoting Orcasystems:


Good god no... if I posted my opinion of this whole thing (GW) I would get hounded off the blog by 50% of the free radicals


LOL.
Dr. Gray is right on target with that article.
Quoting CaneWarning:
Dr. Gray is right on target with that article.


I have to agree (don't shoot me), other then the last para.
694. Orca, you just have to learn to duck faster! ;)
Quoting Orcasystems:


I have to agree (don't shoot me), other then the last para.


Hi Orka, what about the last paragraph?
Quoting Orcasystems:


I have to agree (don't shoot me), other then the last para.


I don't have a gun, so I can't possibly shoot you! :)
Quoting pearlandaggie:
694. Orca, you just have to learn to duck faster! ;)


You know me.. S&I and never wanting to say a discriminating word.... oh yeah.. and shy :)
After the 2005 hurricane season, Bill Gray retired to devote himself to his 'global warming studies.' Hmmm....wonder who is buttering his bread now?

This is from Wiki:

"Peter Webster, a Georgia Institute of Technology professor, has been part of the anonymous peer review on several of Gray's National Science Foundation proposals. In every case he has turned down the global warming research component because he believed it was not up to standards, but recommended that Gray's hurricane research be funded.[9]"

Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia. (2009, Dec. 8). William M. Gray. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Gray
697. well, you need to change that! ;)
701. wxfan
:sigh: Why are you attacking the messenger, Dr. Masters? Blog sites responded quickly because that's what they do. They report news that the state-run media in this country refuse to report.
I love the low level cumulus streaming in from the south as the front will attempt to make it to Ft myers...Really wild looking as they are so low.
A QUESTION FOR DR. MASTERS:
There is a problem with reality. It is reminiscent of a sci fi story where half the people see one thing, and the other half see just the opposite. But there is only one truth, and an incorrect decision could lead to disastrous consequences. Who should we believe? The captain, who we’ve long admired and have great respect; or the first officer to whom we owe our lives? They are both good people, but only one of them is correct. The other has been misled.
Post #639 presented by TomJonesAL of Dr. Bill Gray’s scathing condemnation of the majority of the world’s scientific community’s assessment of the current and projected trends of Global Warming can only give further pause to the average citizen who relies on common sense and the integrity of their leaders for an informed and accurate opinion. Dr. Gray is highly respected, but so too are the many members of the opposite train of thought, including Dr. Masters.
So whom do we believe? I have long wondered (and way before GW was an issue) – as have many conscientious folks around the world – what sort of impact humans have on the environment. One of the points the anti-global warmists site is that the earth is too large for the relatively small (gulp…6 billion) human population to have any major effect on climate. I have to confess that despite my “common sense” telling me global warming is surely so, there is a nagging un-assuredness that I’m completely wrong. Yet, there can only be one truth in this debate.
And that is why we debate. To find the truth. No matter how “inconvenient” for either camp. It’s what we do, what we’ve always done – and in the end (or rather, the future) the truth will be known. What we all want to know, and where we all want to be, is on the side of that eventual truth.
So I implore Dr. Masters to respond to Dr. Gray’s blog. It raises new (and old) questions on the other side of the aisle, and Dr. M’s commentary is vital to this continuing argument.
Quoting pearlandaggie:
697. well, you need to change that! ;)


Guns scare me, so I try to stay away from them!
Has Dr. Gray released his Dec 2010 hurricane forecast yet?
Quoting mikatnight:


Hi Orka, what about the last paragraph?


Ahh what the heck.. I might as well answer this one... you cannot make the following statement..

"Any United Nations climate bill our country might sign would act as an infringement on our country's sovereignty."

Then go screaming to the UN asking for sanctions or actions against Iran/Cuba/North Korea.... etc.

I am sure they also consider Articles from the UN to be "infringement on their country's sovereignty"
704. that's where education and instruction come in :)
Thanks Orka (#706), well put.
Quoting Orcasystems:


Ahh what the heck.. I might as well answer this one... you cannot make the following statement..

"Any United Nations climate bill our country might sign would act as an infringement on our country's sovereignty."

Then go screaming to the UN asking for sanctions or actions against Iran/Cuba/North Korea.... etc.

I am sure they also consider Articles from the UN to be "infringement on their country's sovereignty"


You do have a good point. So instead of the whole paragraph, you disagree with a sentence? Personally, I think the UN has served its purpose and should be done away with...but that's just me.
Showing how the CRU homogenized data for Australia turns a century-long decline in the raw data into a rise.

http://volokh.com/2009/12/08/the-homogenized-data-is-false/

Quoting wxfan:
:sigh: Why are you attacking the messenger, Dr. Masters? Blog sites responded quickly because that's what they do. They report news that the state-run media in this country refuse to report.


I believe you have that backwards. This is a media run state. IMHO
Quoting CaneWarning:


You do have a good point. So instead of the whole paragraph, you disagree with a sentence? Personally, I think the UN has served its purpose and should be done away with...but that's just me.


True, just the sentence... not the paragraph.
Link
In June 2006, the broadcast PR firm Medialink Worldwide put out a video news release (VNR) titled, "Global Warming and Hurricanes: All Hot Air?" In accompanying materials, the firm identified "TCS Daily Science Roundtable" as the client behind the segment. But Medialink didn't disclose that TCS Daily is a website published by Tech Central Station and was, at the time, a project of the Republican lobbying and PR firm DCI Group. (In October 2006, DCI sold the TCS Daily website.) Or that DCI Group counts among its clients ExxonMobil. Or that ExxonMobil gave the Tech Central Science Foundation $95,000 in 2003, for "climate change support."

...The VNR features Dr. William Gray and Dr. James J. O'Brien, who are identified as "two of the nation's top weather and ocean scientists." . . .

After many years as a respected meterologist, Dr. Gray is 80-years-old and sadly, no longer at the top of his game.
Quoting Orcasystems:


True, just the sentence... not the paragraph.


Oh no, that means I agree with you.
Back to lurking :)
Heavy snowfall, wind pounding Midwest, New England
By LUKE MEREDITH, Associated Press Writer
(This morning)

DES MOINES, Iowa – A fierce winter storm was leaving dangerous ice, heavy snow and vicious winds in its wake as it slogged eastward Wednesday, snarling traffic and closing hundreds of schools from the Upper Midwest through New England.

More than a foot of snow was expected in parts of Illinois, Wisconsin and Iowa, where the National Weather Service warned of "extremely dangerous blizzard conditions" and near whiteout driving conditions. Wind gusts of up to 50 mph could build snow drifts between 8 and 15 feet tall.

Parts of New England also girded themselves for bone-chilling wind gusts and snow accumulations of up to a foot by the end of the day.

"It's horrible out there," said Todd Lane, an assistant manager of a Quik Trip convenience store in Des Moines, where several inches of new snow was reported overnight.

Although business was fairly normal overnight, it nearly all came from snow plow drivers — most looking for coffee and energy drinks, he said.

"Outside of the city there's 15-foot drifts and people are stuck in them," Lane said the drivers told him. "It sucks and it just keeps on coming."

In Wisconsin, as many as a dozen tractor-trailers were stuck on interstate ramps made impassible by heavy snow where I-39, I-90 and I-94 intersect near Madison, the State Patrol reported.

Blizzard warnings covered eastern Nebraska, where overnight snowfall reports of 12 inches were common, and parts of Kansas and Minnesota. Snow also fell in western and central Michigan. Schools and colleges across the region were closed.

"For the most part, we're telling people to stay home," said Roger Vachalek, a National Weather Service meteorologist in Des Moines. He said if motorists get stranded, "you might end up being out there for quite a while."

In the West, pounded by the storm's rain and snow earlier this week, bitter wind chills as low as 40 below were sweeping across portions of southern Montana. The biting winds also were moving across Wyoming and South Dakota, according to the National Weather Service.

By the time the storm moves off the Maine coast Thursday night, it may have affected as much as two-thirds of the country, said Jim Lee, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Des Moines.

"It's a monster of a storm," Lee said.

Maine and New Hampshire could see snow accumulations of 6 to 10 inches capped off by rain and sleet in the evening.

In northern New York, as much as a foot of snow was expected to accumulate Wednesday and more than 3 feet was expected by the week's end near the Great Lakes.

Hundreds of schools across New York's eastern half were closed or delayed the start of classes Wednesday. Schools also were closed in parts of Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Massachusetts.

Hundreds of flights were canceled at O'Hare International Airport in Chicago on Tuesday; all departures were canceled out of Cedar Rapids, Iowa; and only a few were scheduled at Des Moines International Airport.

The storm drenched California with rain, blanketed the mountain West with snow and brought 100 mph winds to New Mexico earlier this week. More than 20 inches of snow fell over Flagstaff, Ariz. — more than four times the record of 5 inches set in 1956.

At least five deaths were blamed on the weather, including an Arizona hunter who was killed Monday night when a large pine tree snapped and crushed him as he slept in a tent. The driver of a sport utility vehicle that plunged 90 feet off an icy road into the Texas Panhandle's Palo Duro Canyon also died.

Heavy rain hit some parts of the South with more than 4 inches reported in spots in New Orleans on Tuesday.
__

Associated Press Writers Dinesh Ramde in Milwaukee, Justin Juozapavicius in Oklahoma City, Kevin McGill in New Orleans, Felicia Fonseca in Flagstaff, Ariz. and Nigel Duara in Iowa City, Iowa contributed to this report.
Quoting CaneWarning:


Oh no, that means I agree with you.


oh oh.. that can't be good.. you agree with a Canuck
Good morning
Overcast
65.0 °F
Overcast
Humidity: 70%
Dew Point: 55 °F
Wind: 8.0 mph from the SW
Wind Gust: 8.0 mph
Pressure: 29.06 in (Rising)
Quoting IKE:


Just a lot of arguing back and forth. Might as well copy and paste your opinion and keep posting it every hour.

Exactly.

Thats why I haven't been posting as much as I usually do in the off-season. Too many people on here are acting more like propaganda machines than actual intelligent human beings. Makes me remember why I have yet to make a blog posting on my own blog about environmental sustainability. I would be spending half my time nuking posts and banning people from the blog.
Quoting Orcasystems:


oh oh.. that can't be good.. you agree with a Canuck

unpossible! ;)
Quoting Buhdog:
I love the low level cumulus streaming in from the south as the front will attempt to make it to Ft myers...Really wild looking as they are so low.


No fog this AM but definitely high humidity along with those cool clouds!
Can we combine the bickering over GW with the game MOBSTERS. That way you can form your own mob and Hit List those that disagree. Oh am I ever bored today.
Quoting Chicklit:
After the 2005 hurricane season, Bill Gray retired to devote himself to his 'global warming studies.' Hmmm....wonder who is buttering his bread now?

This is from Wiki:

"Peter Webster, a Georgia Institute of Technology professor, has been part of the anonymous peer review on several of Gray's National Science Foundation proposals. In every case he has turned down the global warming research component because he believed it was not up to standards, but recommended that Gray's hurricane research be funded.[9]"

Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia. (2009, Dec. 8). William M. Gray. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Gray


Interesting...
Quoting Orcasystems:


oh oh.. that can't be good.. you agree with a Canuck


Are you in Victoria? I was up there in May. Took the ferry over from Port Angeles, WA. Lovely area.
The following commentary is by Atmospheric Scientist and Hurricane forecasting specialist Dr. William Gray. Gray is the renowned hurricane forecaster and Emeritus Professor of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University (CSU).

Puncturing the Climate Balloon

By Dr. Bill Gray

December 8, 2009

Had I not devoted my entire career of over half-a-century to the study and forecasting of meteorological and climate events I would have likely been concerned over the possibility of humans causing serious global climate degradation.

There has been an unrelenting quarter century of one-sided indoctrination of the western world by the media and by various scientists and governments concerning a coming carbon dioxide (CO_2 ) induced global warming disaster. These warming scenarios have been orchestrated by a combination of environmentalists, vested interest scientists wanting larger federal grants and publicity, the media which profits from doomsday scenario reporting, governmental bureaucrats who want more power over our lives, and socialists who want to level-out global living standards. These many alarmist groups appear to have little concern over whether their global warming prognostications are accurate, however. And they most certainly are not. The alarmists believe they will be able to scare enough of our citizens into believing their propaganda that the public will be willing to follow their advice on future energy usage and agree to a lowering of their standard of living in the name of climate salvation.

Rising levels of CO_2 are not near the threat these alarmists have portrayed them to be. There has yet to be a honest and broad scientific debate on the basic science of CO_2 's influence on global temperature. The global climate models predicting large amounts of global warming for a doubling of CO_2 are badly flawed. They should never have been used to establish government climate policy.

The last century's global warming of about 1 degree F is not a consequence of human activities. This warming is primarily the result of a multi-century changes in the globe's deep ocean circulation. These ocean current changes have lead to a small and gradual increase in the globe's temperature. We are coming out of the Little Ice Age and into a generally warmer climate state. This is akin to the warmer global climate of the Medieval Period. We can do nothing but adapt to such long period natural temperature changes.

The recent 'ClimateGate' revelations coming out of the UK University of East Anglia are but the tip of a giant iceberg of a well organized international climate warming conspiracy that has been gathering momentum for the last 25 years. This conspiracy would become much more manifest if all the e-mails of the publically funded climate research groups of the US and of foreign governments were ever made public.

The disastrous economic consequences of restricting CO_2 emissions from the present by as much as 20 percent by 2020 and 80 percent by 2050 (as being proposed in Copenhagen) have yet to be digested by the general public. Such CO_2 output decreases would cause very large increases in our energy costs, a lowering of our standard of living, and do nothing of significance to improve our climate.

The Cap-and-Trade bill presently before Congress, the likely climate agreements coming out of the Copenhagen Conference, and the EPA's just announced decision to treat CO_2 as a pollutant represents a grave threat to the industrial world's continued economic development. We should not allow these proposals to restrict our economic growth. Any United Nations climate bill our country might sign would act as an infringement on our country's sovereignty.
...
Quoting trinigal:


I dislike the UN so intensely. Having worked under the UN overseas and seen the abuse of young children at their hands (always covered up of course), I think they are a very corrupt and vile organization.


Do you know why the UN was created?
Quoting trinigal:


I dislike the UN so intensely. Having worked under the UN overseas and seen the abuse of young children at their hands (always covered up of course), I think they are a very corrupt and vile organization.


I feel the same way. I know someone who does full time charity work overseas and the stories he tells me of the UN just astounds me.
Stupid.

This is a public information statement issued by NWS Slidell (NOLA/BR):
"in terms of total annual rainfall, most of the United States became wetter over the twentieth century. Most of this increase is being expressed in extreme rainfall events, which are now more frequent and even more extreme than they were in the 1950s. In the southeast, the amount of rain that falls during the heaviest one percent of rainy days has grown by 20 percent in the last 50 years. While more moisture is generally good for agriculture and wildlife, the trend of more rainfall happening during extreme events has corresponded to more frequent and longer periods when no rain falls. This message brought to you by the National Weather Service and Earth gauge dot net."

This is dumb. In the last 50 years a number of observations sites have been added. LSU AG Center sites, NOS stations, USACE stations, NWS moved to Slidell's airport, airport ASOS sites added were: Boothville, Patterson, Houma, Hammond. More people around over a larger area.

AND, there was no radar estimated precip up until relatively recently.

So if the extreme rainfall happens to be measured more frequently, that means it has changed!?! No. Our observation capabilities have changed.

This is no different than saying that tornado numbers have gone up (no, we have more people that care in the path and radar coverage capable of detecting cloud-level spin). Also no different than saying hurricane damage has gone up due to anything but us fools putting more and more junk in front of them.

So what if yesterday's 8 inches of rainfall in those small areas (see below) had not been measured by radar and did not fall into any gauges? The assumption they are making is that it would not have happened.



Moronic.

And also right along with the mentality that we have been effectively measuring all of these weather values for a long time (like another, unnamed subject) when that is simply not true.

Disappointed that the NWS is a happy participant in this and that no one said "Hey wait a minute, we don't know that!"
From Wikipedia:

Since its creation, there has been controversy and criticism of the UN organization. In the United States, an early opponent of the UN was the John Birch Society, which began a "get US out of the UN" campaign in 1959, charging that the UN's aim was to establish a "One World Government." After the Second World War, the French Committee of National Liberation was late to be recognized by the US as the government of France, and so the country was initially excluded from the conferences that aimed at creating the new organization. Charles de Gaulle criticized the UN, famously calling it le machin ("the thingie"), and was not convinced that a global security alliance would help maintaining world peace, preferring direct defence treaties between countries.[5]
...
730. good post. thanks!
STORM SUMMARY NUMBER 08 FOR CENTRAL PLAINS TO GREAT LAKES WINTER
STORM
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
900 AM CST WED DEC 09 2009

...SIGNIFICANT WINTER STORM AFFECTING THE NORTH CENTRAL AND
EASTERN U.S....

BLIZZARD WARNINGS...WINTER STORM WARNINGS...AND WINTER WEATHER
ADVISORIES ARE IN EFFECT ACROSS THE UPPER MIDWEST AND UPPER GREAT
LAKES. WINTER STORM WARNINGS AND WINTER WEATHER ADVISORIES ARE IN
EFFECT ACROSS THE NORTHEAST.

FLOOD AND FLASH FLOOD WARNINGS...WATCHES...AND ADVISORIES ARE IN
EFFECT FOR PARTS OF THE LOWER MISSISSIPPI RIVER AND TENNESSEE
RIVER VALLEYS. FLOOD AND FLASH FLOOD WATCHES AND WARNINGS ARE
ALSO IN EFFECT ACROSS THE MID-ATLANTIC STATES AND COASTAL REGIONS
OF NEW ENGLAND.

HIGH WIND WARNINGS AND WIND ADVISORIES ARE IN EFFECT ALONG THE
APPALACHIANS...OHIO VALLEY...AND LOWER GREAT LAKES REGION.

FOR A DETAILED GRAPHICAL DEPICTION OF THE LATEST
WATCHES...WARNINGS AND ADVISORIES...PLEASE SEE WWW.WEATHER.GOV

AT 800 AM CST...A 977 MB...28.85 INCH LOW PRESSURE CENTER WAS
LOCATED OVER SOUTHERN LAKE MICHIGAN WITH WIDESPREAD MODERATE TO
HEAVY PRECIPITATION FALLING ACROSS THE NORTH CENTRAL AND EASTERN
U.S. NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADARS AND SURFACE
OBSERVATIONS INDICATED THAT A WIDE BAND OF MODERATE TO HEAVY SNOW
WAS FALLING FROM CENTRAL IOWA AND ILLINOIS TO THE UPPER GREAT
LAKES REGION...ALONG WITH LOCALIZED BLIZZARD CONDITIONS. A WINTRY
MIX WAS OBSERVED ACROSS THE LOWER GREAT LAKES, WHILE SNOW WAS
FALLING FROM MASSACHUSETTS NORTHWARD. ADDITIONALLY...A LARGE BAND
OF MODERATE TO HEAVY RAIN WAS FALLING ACROSS THE MID ATLANTIC AND
SOUTHEAST STATES...WITH SCATTERED THUNDERSTORMS OBSERVED IN THE
DEEP SOUTH.

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL IN INCHES FROM 700 PM CST SUN DEC
06 THROUGH 300 AM CST WED DEC 09...

...IOWA...
ATLANTIC 1 NE 16.0
WINTERSET 15.0
DANA 14.0
TOLEDO 14.0
DES MOINES 5 WNW 12.7
HARLAN 1 N 11.0
CEDAR RAPIDS 10.0
CLIVE 3 SW 10.0
CORNING 10.0
PACIFIC JUNCTION 3 W 10.0
GUTHRIE CENTER 9.5
ADEL 9.0
AUDUBON 9.0
BELLE PLAINE 1 SSW 9.0
WATERLOO 9.0

...ILLINOIS...
FREEPORT 11.0
ROCKFORD 4 NW 6.0
LOVES PARK 5.5
WOODSTOCK 5.5
MOUNT PROSPECT 4.0

...MINNESOTA...
KIESTER 9.0
NEW MARKET 8.5
ROCHESTER 8.3
MANKATO 8.0
MINNEAPOLIS 6.7
LA CRESCENT 1 N 6.5
READS LANDING 1 W 6.5
PRESTON 6.3
CURRIE 4 N 5.0
FARMINGTON 4.0
OWATONNA 4.0

...MISSOURI...
ROCKPORT 12.5
TARKIO 12.0
OREGON 10.0
BETHANY 8.0
ALBANY 7.0
MERCER 7.0
UNIONVILLE 7.0
COFFEY 5 W 6.0
GILMAN CITY 6.0
SAVANNAH 5.0

...NEBRASKA...
OMAHA 6.0

...WISCONSIN...
MADISON 17.2
MIDDLETON 4 WSW 17.0
ELKHART LAKE 13.0
STANLEY 12.4
PORTAGE 3 SE 11.2
EAU CLAIRE 11.0
LA CROSSE AIRPORT 9.0
OCONOMOWOC 8.5
CORNUCOPIA 4 S 6.0

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL RAINFALL IN INCHES FROM 700 PM CST SUN DEC
06 THROUGH 300 AM CST WED DEC 09...

...LOUISIANA...
NEW IBERIA/ACADIANA 6.71
JEANERETTE 6.34
SLIDELL 5.32
BATON ROUGE/RYAN MUNI ARPT 5.04
NEW ORLEANS/MOISANT 4.60
SLIDELL 3.47
LAFAYETTE RGNL ARPT 2.43

...MISSISSIPPI...
GULFPORT-BILOXI 2.74
KEESLER AFB/BILOXI 2.43
HATTIESBURG/LAUREL 2.40
JACKSON WFO 2.18

...TENNESSEE...
MEMPHIS INTL ARPT 2.06
JACKSON/MCKELLAR 2.01

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL FREEZING RAIN ICE AMOUNTS IN INCHES FROM
700 PM CST SUN DEC 06 THROUGH 300 AM CST WED DEC 09...

...IOWA...
DAVENPORT 6 NE 0.25

...ILLINOIS...
ABINGDON 1 N 0.25

...SELECTED PEAK WIND GUSTS IN MILES PER HOUR EARLIER IN THE
EVENT...

...ARIZONA...
CHINO VALLEY 78
CROWN KING 77
DEER VALLEY 74
PRESCOTT 74
BELLEMONT 70
WINSLOW 69
SCOTTSDALE 68
CAMP VERDE 66
LUKE AFB 62

...NEW MEXICO...
MALJAMAR 78
FORT STANTON 2 SSW 77
RUIDOSO 1 SW 70
LOVINGTON 64
LAS VEGAS 6 NE 63
CLOVIS 5 N 62

...TEXAS...
GUADALUPE BOWL 105
MOUNT LOCKE 87
THE PINERY 85
FORT DAVIS 11 NW 75
SEAGRAVES 68
HART 3 N 65
NORTHFIELD 1 S 65
AMARILLO 3 SSE 64
OLTON 6 S 63
SILVERTON 7 ESE 63
LEVELLAND 4 S 61
WAYSIDE 3 NNE 61
HEREFORD 60
TULIA 2 ENE 60
TURKEY 2 WSW 60
TIMBERCREEK CANYON 59
FLOYDADA 2 NNE 58

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL IN INCHES WHERE THE EVENT HAS
ENDED...

...ARIZONA...
FLAGSTAFF 7.8 SSW 30.4
JACOB LAKE 24.0
WILLIAMS 0.4 SW 20.0
BELLEMONT 19.0
GRAND CANYON SOUTH RIM 18.0
DAVENPORT LAKE 16.0
ASH FORK 4.9 SW 10.0

...CALIFORNIA...
KIRKWOOD SKI AREA 48.0
ALPINE MEADOWS 45.0
SODA SPRINGS 40.0
KINGVALE 1.3 WSW 37.0
NORTHSTAR 36.0
CISCO 5 ENE 35.0
SOUTH LAKE TAHOE 8 SSW 31.0
HOMEWOOD 2 SE 27.0
PROSSER CREEK RESERVOIR 24.0
FAIR PLAY 2.8 ESE 19.0
POLLOCK PINES 0.1 E 16.0
VOLCANO 5.4 NE 15.5
MAMMOTH LAKES 14.0

...COLORADO...
PAGOSA SPRINGS 9.1 NNW 33.0
CARBONDALE 8.2 S 24.8
CRESTED BUTTE 6.2 N 24.5
DURANGO 24.0
BAYFIELD 7 N 23.5
DOLORES 22 NE 23.0
GREELEY 2.3 SE 22.0
PAGOSA SPRINGS 3 SE 22.0
CARBONDALE 7 S 21.0
MESA 6 S 21.0
BLACK CANYON VISITOR CE 19.0
BAYFIELD 0.8 SW 18.3
CREEDE 14 SW 18.0

...IDAHO...
WESTON 4.0
POCATELLO AIRPORT 3.7
BOISE 6.7 SE 3.5

...KANSAS...
MARYSVILLE 14.0
MORROWVILLE 4 SSE 13.0
OKETO 3 W 13.0
LINCOLN 5 NE 12.0
SCANDIA 12.0
CONCORDIA 5 SSE 11.0
NE WATERVILLE 11.0
CORNING 2 W 9.0
HAYS 13 WNW 9.0
WEBBER 2.6 ENE 8.4
NORTON 0.4 N 8.2
BENNINGTON 2 SSW 8.0
SALINA 8.0
WAKEENEY 13 W 8.0
ELLSWORTH 5 SE 7.5
ABILENE 5 SSW 7.0
MANHATTAN 7.0

...NEBRASKA...
TECUMSEH 13.5
ORD 12.0
HOLDREGE 11.0
FAIRBURY 10.0
YORK 10.0
AUBURN 5 ESE 8.6
OMAHA 3 N 8.6
CRETE 8.5
BEATRICE 8.0
KEARNEY 8.0
WEEPING WATER 8.0
CALLAWAY 6.5
INDIANOLA 6.0
NEBRASKA CITY 6.0

...NEW MEXICO...
LAS VEGAS 8.4 NW 8.0
EL RITO 2.3 NW 6.0
YOUNGSVILLE 5.4 NE 6.0
ANGEL FIRE 10.2 SSE 5.5
SANTA FE 3.3 NE 5.5
TAOS PUEBLO 2.8 NW 5.2
GALLUP 8.1 NNW 4.8
TAOS 13 NW 4.0

...NEVADA...
HEAVENLY VALLEY 34.0
MT ROSE SKI AREA 23.0
CARSON CITY 1.3 NW 18.0
MINDEN 4.2 WSW 14.5
RENO 7.1 N 13.7
DAYTON 1.7 SW 13.0
SUN VALLEY 0.9 N 10.5
INDIAN HILLS 0.7 N 10.0
FALLON 0.6 ESE 9.3
SPARKS 7.5 N 9.0
SPRING CREEK 8.0

...SOUTH DAKOTA...
SIOUX FALLS 6.0
NORTH SIOUX CITY 5.3
VERMILLION 5.0
CANTON 4.0
MENNO 4.0

...UTAH...
VERDUE 8 WNW 25.0
SPRINGDELL 23.0
ORDERVILLE 19.0
NEW HARMONY 18.0
BLANDING 28 W 15.0
SALEM 1 W 14.0
BRIGHTON 1 N 12.0
HEBER CITY 12.0
OAK CITY 0.3 SSE 10.6
BOULDER 1.3 NNW 10.3
NORTH SALT LAKE 10.0
SPRINGVILLE 10.0

...WYOMING...
SAND LAKE 11.0
DIVIDE PEAK 9.0
NORTH FRENCH CREEK 9.0
SARATOGA 0.3 ESE 8.0
SOUTH BRUSH CREEK 7.0
YODER 6.5 SSE 7.0
LARAMIE 27.3 WSW 6.0
BURNS 8 NNE 4.5
ELK MOUNTAIN 2.1 S 4.4
CHEYENNE 26.7 NE 4.3
THAYNE 4.2 NNE 4.1

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL RAINFALL IN INCHES WHERE THE EVENT HAS
ENDED...

...ARIZONA...
BAGDAD 3.88
FLORENCE 9.1 NW 3.11
MAYER 0.4 WSW 2.75
PINE 0.9 SW 2.20
SEDONA 2.20
NEW RIVER 3.2 ENE 2.17
CAVE CREEK 7.7 ENE 2.06
PRESCOTT 16.2 NNW 2.04

...CALIFORNIA...
JOSHUA TREE 2.8 ENE 5.50
JAMUL 11.0 ESE 3.40
SANTEE 0.8 W 2.84
LYTLE CREEK RAWS 2.77
IDYLLWILD 1.8 NW 2.66
EL CAJON 0.7 S 2.40
HENSHAW DAM 2.36
JULIAN 2.36
POTRERO 2.27
SANTA YSABEL 2.17
LEMON GROVE 1.8 WNW 2.16
SAN DIEGO 6.1 W 2.12

...TEXAS...
GALVESTON 6.4 NE 2.25
GALVESTON/SCHOLES 2.18
DICKINSON 1.4 W 2.00


THE STORM SYSTEM WILL CONTINUE TO SLOWLY STRENGTHEN AS IT QUICKLY
MOVES ACROSS THE MIDDLE MISSISSIPPI RIVER VALLEY WEDNESDAY.
WIDESPREAD SNOWFALL TOTALS OF 4 TO 8 INCHES ARE EXPECTED ACROSS
THE UPPER MIDWEST AND GREAT LAKES REGION...WITH TOTALS GREATER
THAN 12 INCHES POSSIBLE IN ISOLATED AREAS NORTHWEST OF THE LOW
CENTER TRACK. THE COMBINATION OF HEAVY SNOW AND STRONG WINDS WILL
CAUSE BLIZZARD CONDITIONS ACROSS PARTS OF THE UPPER MIDWEST AND
GREAT LAKES. AS THE PRECIPITATION SPREADS NORTHEASTWARD...PATCHES
OF SLEET AND FREEZING RAIN WILL RESULT IN SOME ICING OVER THE
NORTHEASTERN U.S. FLOODING WILL ALSO BE A CONCERN FOR THE NEW
ENGLAND AND NORTHERN MID ATLANTIC COASTAL AREAS...WHERE 1 TO 3
INCHES OF RAIN IS EXPECTED BY WEDNESDAY EVENING.

THE NEXT STORM SUMMARY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL
PREDICTION CENTER AT 300 PM CST. PLEASE REFER TO YOUR LOCAL
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THIS
EVENT.

SOLTOW
Quoting trinigal:


I dislike the UN so intensely. Having worked under the UN overseas and seen the abuse of young children at their hands (always covered up of course), I think they are a very corrupt and vile organization.

Not to defend the UN or any actions carried out by anyone holding their banner, but quite frequently, acts of abuse are not a systematic issue by the parent organization, but rather the independent actions of individuals - not the group as a whole.
You all don't get it. Follow the money. General Electric will make millions if cap and tax goes through. The oil companies will make millions if it doesn't. 1200 limos and 147 jets to ferry around the climate change gurus. Hipocracy at its finest. Science has become political and that is dangerous. Keep the politicians out of it and you might make the case for climate change.Al "I stand to make millions with my carbon credit business" Gore is the poster child for climate change. Another politician. Keep the sleazeballs out of the conversation and maybe you will become credible. And I mean all the politicians.
Quoting trinigal:


I dislike the UN so intensely. Having worked under the UN overseas and seen the abuse of young children at their hands (always covered up of course), I think they are a very corrupt and vile organization.

Please don't list unsubstantiated junk like that on here.
I heard they were a bunch of pickle making sorcerers (always covered up of course).
Name names, argue perspectives and opinions, point to new information, but comment 727 is just vile in its pure mud slinging. What is the weather at YOUR house?
Trinigal, where can I read about the U.N. and the abuse of children? I believe you, of course, since your story is first-hand; and that makes me heart-sick.
(However, the Wiki entry stating that the John Birch Society early on opposed the U.N. would make me want to support the U.N.!) (Add-on, EEK, 1st writing made it sound like I wanted to support the John Birch Society...NO NO NO!)
Conflicted, here!
---------------------------

Peeps, while you're posting and blogging this morning, you might want to check out the channel that parades as The Weather Channel (wink). Mike Seidel's stand-ups in Iowa in the blizzard this a.m. are pretty good -- 40 mi. per hour winds, deep snow, and even the plows have been called in.
Last time I checked, making money is not a sin...and vigorously advocating for ones' investment interests is not only not a sin...it's the way things ought to be...you're either supportive of the free marketplace of goods, services and ideas...or you're not...many of the Flat Earthers mouth 'free market' platitudes, but are actually scared to death of the concept....hypocrisy, indeed...
739. that's true...it's not a sin to make money. i think the objection comes when one is advocating the government implement a program that makes one's unprofitable investments mandatory for all. i suspect that's where the rub comes in...

oh, and calling names does little to advance one's argument :)
new blog
Hi Awake,
Try this:
Criticism of the United Nations
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Though the UN's USA bashing was hardly what FDR intended, there has not been another world war, which was most certainly what FDR wanted to prevent. It is reasonable to believe that the UN helped in that regard. I don't believe the UN will ever be (or should be) abolished, though there is undoubtedly room for improvement (as with all institutions).

NEW BLOG!
...
atmo~ I have to disagree with you about the increased flooding events. What happened in GA earlier this year was a 1 in 10,000year event. TX in the last few years has had extreme events. 20 inches in a day over a large area is a lot more noticeable than tornadoes. Generations have lived here in ECFL yet it's only been the last 10 years when we have had extreme flooding events. By extreme flooding I mean the stuff you can see by satellite..huge areas underwater...20+ inches of rain. It's the kind of flooding you don't need radar estimates for.
...
A free market system works perfectly with balanced competition. Unfortunately our free market system is not balanced. We compete with countries that have no labor laws or minimal labor laws. Do we abolish our labor laws or reduce them to meet developing nations. I believe that we should encourage other nations to increase their labor laws to match ours. Our standard of living can be kept. I am not sure of the right solution but I do know that we need rich people and that the rich people can only make more money if the working masses have money to spend.
Quoting atmoaggie:
new blog


YAAAAY!
Quoting Chicklit:
After the 2005 hurricane season, Bill Gray retired to devote himself to his 'global warming studies.' Hmmm....wonder who is buttering his bread now?

This is from Wiki:

"Peter Webster, a Georgia Institute of Technology professor, has been part of the anonymous peer review on several of Gray's National Science Foundation proposals. In every case he has turned down the global warming research component because he believed it was not up to standards, but recommended that Gray's hurricane research be funded.[9]"

Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia. (2009, Dec. 8). William M. Gray. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Gray


Strange thinking from Webster, because IIRC, it was Webster that was able to get the "confidential" data set from CRU that Jones wouldn't release to anyone else.

So it could be that Grey's AGW research wasn't up to Webster's standards because Grey couldn't get the same data as Webster.

In that case, NOBODY could get the same data as Webster. So EVERYBODY'S research won't match Webster's standards.