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Don't shoot the messenger

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 3:13 PM GMT on December 06, 2009

Monday, December 7, marks the opening of the U.N. Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen, Denmark. At that meeting, the leaders of the world will gather to negotiate an agreement to replace the 1997 Kyoto Protocol. The new agreement will be the world's road map for dealing with climate change, and the stakes are huge. It is fitting that the conference begins on the anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, for the Copenhagen conference is sure to be an epic political battle. Indeed, the battle has already been underway for several weeks, with most of the action centering on a PR assault launched by the anti-CO2 regulation forces that sensationalized the contents of the hacked emails from the University of East Anglia. The Wall Street Journal has long been at the forefront of the battle to discredit the science of climate change and the scientists involved, and last week they launched a major offensive, publishing multiple opinion pieces. I'll critique one of these, a December 1 editorial by Bret Stephens which accuses climate scientists of having a vested interest in promoting alarmist views of the climate in order to get research funding. "All of them have been on the receiving end of climate change-related funding, so all of them must believe in the reality (and catastrophic imminence) of global warming just as a priest must believe in the existence of God", Stephens wrote.

Money
It's always wise to follow the money when analyzing the motivations of people. However, Ph.D. atmospheric scientists are less motivated by money than, say, the typical reader of the Wall Street Journal. I am an example of that. Nobody owns more shares of Wunderground.com than I do, yet here I am criticizing the Wall Street Journal and some of the richest and most powerful corporations on the planet--hardly the sort of action that will generate more revenue for my company. Our top climate scientists are some of the most brilliant people on the planet. They could have easily made fortunes on Wall Street devising intricate schemes to hawk sub-prime mortgages or leverage obscure derivatives. Yet these people chose climate science as a career, out of a genuine curiosity about how the world works and desire to help find the truth of whether human-caused climate change poses a significant threat to humanity. The charges that these scientists are exaggerating the danger of human-caused global warming to get more funding is a personal attack on their integrity--a typical politician's ploy to avoid talking about the issues, when one has no valid arguments to bolster one's position. In my 29 years in the weather business, I've had the honor of working with many of the world's top weather and climate scientists. I can personally vouch for their integrity and commitment to pursue the scientific truth, no matter what that truth turns out to be. These are honest, incredibly hard-working public servants who are enduring a punishing assault on their integrity because they are the bearers of bad news. The Earth has plenty of pressing problems requiring the services of brilliant scientists; these public servants will always have a job, and have no need to exaggerate dangers or invent new threats in order to get more research funding. If one reads through the entire set of 3,000 emails hacked from the University of East Anglia--not just the choice few lines excerpted from chosen emails, and then spun by the anti-CO2 regulation lobby to make the scientists look bad--you will see that these scientists are the good guys. Never once is there a mention of fabricating data or fudging results to try to get more research funding. There is no conspiring to perpetate the massive "hoax" of human-caused global warming they have been accused of. Rather, we see a picture of some very smart, hardworking, and very human and imperfect scientists that are doing their best to learn the truth, and pass that information on to the rest of us. You don't get ahead in scince by fudging the data. It's publish or perish. While the peer-review system of publication is not perfect, it generally does an excellent job of rewarding those scientists who seek to publish the truth, and rejects those who do not. Published papers that turn out to be false will, in time, crumble under the weight of subsequent studies that do uncover the truth. Smart scientists tend to have big egos and hate being wrong, so there is additional motivation to publish truthful studies that will withstand the test of time and be validated by subsequent research.

Alarmism
Mr. Stephens uses the words "alarm" or "alarmist" four times in the editorial, and he is clearly trying to provoke an emotional reaction against those Chicken Littles guilty of raising the alarm. Speaking as an atmospheric scientist, I can tell you from long experience that we are not the wild-eyed, alarmist lot that the Wall Street Journal makes us out to be. This makes for some very dull parties (if you're not excited about discussing quasi-geostrophic theory), when we get together for a big bash. Very little alarming behavior takes place. (In fact, after I dragged my wife to three straight devastatingly dull departmental Christmas parties while I was in graduate school, she forbade me from ever requiring her to go to another.) Atmospheric scientists are not an alarmist lot--put us in quiet room with a window and give us a computer and pile of data to analyze, and we'll be as happy as a clam at high tide. The portrayal of climate scientists as alarmist, money-grubbing, dishonest hucksters out to destroy the economy to further their own selfish desires for money or fame is a common theme in climate change denial attacks, and is a very narrow-minded and ignorant one. It's more convenient to shoot the messenger than to acknowledge the truth of the bad news they're bringing.

Toleration of false alarms
It is possible that the alarms climate scientists are raising over climate change will turn out to be false. Environmental scientists have in the past issued false alarms over environmental problems that did not materialize as expected. However, we should expect and tolerate some degree of false alarms, given the uncertainty in forecasting these events. If our scientists never issue a false alarm, then the tolerance for issuing alarms is not correct. Would you criticize the National Weather Service for issuing a tornado warning when a possible tornado signature is spotted on Doppler radar, since less than half of these signatures result in in an actual tornado touchdown? Or the National Hurricane Center for issuing a hurricane warning, since only 25% of the warned coast receives hurricane-force winds, on average? No, some degree of false alarms must be tolerated. Our weather forecasters are dedicated public servants, doing their job of warning the public when their best scientific judgment indicates that there might be a significant threat. It is no different with our climate scientists. They are predicting that there is a greater than 90% chance that most of the observed global warming is due to human causes. Climate scientists are extremely concerned about what their scientific results are saying, and are doing their utmost to warn a public resistant to acknowledging the danger. This resistance runs very deep among conservatives. A 2008 Pew Center poll found that 75% of Democrats with a college education believed that humans were responsible for global warming, while only 19% of college educated Republicans believed that. Conservatives' core belief that a capitalist, free market economy with limited regulation is the best economic system in the world is challenged by acknowledging that human-caused global warming is real and a threat. I greatly respect conservatives who can objectively evaluate the validity of global warming science while holding that core belief, for it is difficult to accept that the best economic system in the world could spawn such a self-destructive force. But as I detailed in a post last week, corporations, by law, exist to make a profit. If scientific research shows that a corporation's products may be harmful to the public health, it the obligation of the company to its shareholders to employ whatever legal means possible to cast doubt on this science, in order to protect profits. The profits of the richest and most powerful industry the planet has ever seen--the fossil fuel industry--are currently so threatened. Thus, we are being subject to history's greatest campaign to deny science, and it is keeping us from much-needed action to curb the danger. These voices are telling us what we want to hear--the danger is not real, the scientists are corrupt and are falsifying their data, the uncertainties are great, and that we cannot afford to change. But the laws of physics don't care about ideology or free market economies or election cycles. The overwhelming majority of our top climate scientists are saying that the laws of physics dictate that massive amounts of greenhouse gases, when added to the atmosphere, will cause warming that will be very damaging to civilization. If we are to limit that damage, we must act soon, for the approaching storm will grow ever stronger the longer we wait. Don't shoot the messengers-- they are on your side.

Other posts in this series
Embattled UK climate scientist steps down
The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy
Is more CO2 beneficial for Earth's ecosystems?

Next post
My timing of my next post will depend upon the weather.

Our Climate Change expert, Dr. Ricky Rood, is in Copenhagen for this week's crucial COP15 climate change treaty negotiations. Be sure to tune into his blog for updates on the talks. Wunderground has provided financial support for several University of Michigan students to attend the talks, and I may be featuring portions of their blogs over the coming weeks.

Jeff Masters

Climate Change

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

taistelutipu:

talas svensken i switzerland?
Any new data on CO2 from artic ice core samples? Also, has anyone seen the data the shows warming leading CO2 gains and not the other way around?

It seems data of this osrt is what needs to be discussed, not the short term (less than 1/1000 of 1% of the currently accepted age of the earth) data from the last 150 years
nej, det gras inte. But Switzerland is multilingual nonetheless, German, French, Italian and Romansh are the official languages. Swedish is spoken in Sweden and Finland. Finland is officially a bilingual country with Finnish and Swedish as official languages and unofficially trilingual with English widely used as well.

I think I'm off now, it's late or rather early... 2:36 on my computer clock. Good night all!
Quoting taistelutipu:
nej, det göras inte. But Switzerland is multilingual nonetheless, German, French, Italian and Romansh are the official languages. Swedish is spoken in Sweden and Finland. Finland is officially a bilingual country with Finnish and Swedish as official languages and unofficially trilingual with English widely used as well.


oh alright, I should try to learn Swiss-German then
Quoting JFLORIDA:


Remember there are little hand pumps too. Plastic ones that will pump uphill. Tell the kids its fun - then run!


Ended up going to home depot and buying a little one that runs on batteries...the cement area is at least almost cleared up for now. More rain on Thursday though.

Tag, you guys are it...have fun with the storm coming east. It dumped LOTS of rain here.
998. AussieStorm, give that tropical disturbance near the Philippines about 14 days or less and the remnants of that system will be making a bee-line for the West Coast of the US. All compliments of the El Nino and the strong Asian Jet Stream.

Heard that Austrailia has the warmest November on record, with temps about 3.5F above average.

I hope the El Nino goes away quick, so things will return to "normal" for Australia and the US. According to the experts, the El Nino will not abate until 5-2010..
Trivia ?....What movie did the the song "I'm Dreaming of A White Christmas" debut in?
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
Calusakat, it's not because someone said so--it is because it has been proven so with ice core analysis and C-14 isotope analysis. People accept the Bible just on faith with no evidence.

We don't accept the reality of man-made global warming because of mere faith, but on provable, replicable, scientific examination.

They themselves admit altering the data.

At that point, the data becomes fictional and any dependence on that data is 'faith based'.

Hence the bumper sticker.

All part of The Church of the IPCC and AGW.

BTW...I am not indicting you one way or the other, just calling attention to how easy it is to slip into repeating a mantra that could easily be a hoax.



Japan Meteorological Agency
Tropical Disturbance Summary
TROPICAL DEPRESSION XX
09:00 AM JST December 8 2009
===================================

At 0:00 AM UTC, Tropical Depression (1010 hPa) located at 11.0N 129.0E has 10 minute sustained winds of 25 knots with gusts of 40 knots. The depression is reported as moving west at 10 knots.
Mr. Masters, I am a Conservative with a engineering background, I am also a pilot. The reason I doubt the Man Made aspect of global warming is three fold.

1) Man has only had a very brief period to collect reliable date so it is impossible to develope a model, without making very broad assumptions. That is not good science. Kind of like trying to deduce the nature of space without a telescope.
2) The Al Gores of this world are the worst type of people you could find to develope any level of trust in the science they believes in.
3) As a pilot, I see that man only occupies a tiny amount of this globe and to me the claim that man can affect the globe is on a par with thinking man can make the earth wobble if by chance we all jump up at once.

I really think things like off shore fish farming is more of a threat than CO2.

One last thought, if you really believ in Man Made Global Warming, why not push Nuclear?
1011. miajrz
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:
Trivia ?....What movie did the the song "I'm Dreaming of A White Christmas" debut in?

Holiday Inn, but I cheat--read this article this morning in the Journal.
Link
1012. miajrz
Ooops, sorry
Link
1013. Ossqss
I still can't figure out where this is wrong.

A statistically significant cooling trend in RSS and UAH satellite data
Quoting miajrz:

Holiday Inn, but I cheat--read this article this morning in the Journal.


Correct! Now...when will the world end because of global warming?
1015. miajrz
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Correct! Now...when will the world end because of global warming?

Sooner or later. LOL
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


Correct! Now...when will the world end because of global warming?

"Not even the angels in heaven..." Matthew 24:36

1019. Patrap
Did I come at Bad time?

Is it Turner Classic Movie Night on a Monday?
Enjoy it Pat...Tis the season :)
1021. bophame
TimesonLine, November 29:

This weekend it emerged that the unit has thrown away much of the data. Tucked away on its website is this statement: “Data storage availability in the 1980s meant that we were not able to keep the multiple sources for some sites ... We, therefore, do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (ie, quality controlled and homogenised) data.”

If true, it is extraordinary. It means that the data on which a large part of the world’s understanding of climate change is based can never be revisited or checked. Pielke said: “Can this be serious? It is now impossible to create a new temperature index from scratch. [The unit] is basically saying, ‘Trust us’.”
You must have a favorite holiday clip in your archives Pat.
1023. Patrap
Yup..and those you posted are all great Classics..


I'll see if I can find a new one round here somewhere..
God how do I want to see the Saints and the Colts in the Super Bowl. Historic I Say....Historic!!!!!!!
1026. miajrz
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:
Enjoy it Pat...Tis the season :)

And thank you for that wonderful NoLa December 2004 picture!
STORM SUMMARY NUMBER 02 FOR SOUTHWESTERN US STORM
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
700 PM PST MON DEC 07 2009

...POWERFUL STORM SYSTEM ORGANIZING OVER THE SOUTHWEST...

BLIZZARD WARNINGS ARE IN EFFECT FOR HIGHER ELEVATIONS OF THE FOUR
CORNERS REGION. BLIZZARD WARNINGS HAVE BEEN ISSUED FOR PORTIONS OF
SOUTHERN MINNESOTA AND NORTHEASTERN IOWA.

WINTER STORM WARNINGS ARE IN EFFECT FROM CALIFORNIA EASTWARD INTO
COLORADO AND NEW MEXICO AND CONTINUE NORTHEASTWARD INTO WISCONSIN
AND MICHIGAN. WINTER WEATHER ADVISORIES ARE IN EFFECT FOR PORTIONS
OF NEVADA EASTWARD TO NORTHERN TEXAS AND NORTHEASTWARD INTO
MINNESOTA. WINTER STORM WATCHES HAVE BEEN ISSUED FOR PORTIONS OF
THE LOWER GREAT LAKES AND ALSO THE CENTRAL APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS.

FLASH FLOOD WATCHES ARE IN EFFECT FOR PORTIONS OF ARIZONA. IN
ADDITION... HIGH WIND WATCHES ARE WARNINGS ARE IN EFFECT FOR
PORTIONS OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EASTWARD TO WESTERN TEXAS.

FOR A DETAILED GRAPHICAL DEPICTION OF THE LATEST
WATCHES...WARNINGS AND ADVISORIES...PLEASE SEE WWW.WEATHER.GOV

AT 700 PM PST...A 991 MB... 29.26 INCHES... DEEPENING AREA OF LOW
PRESSURE WAS SLOWLY MOVING EAST THROUGH SOUTHERN NEVADA.
A COLD
FRONT WAS PUSHING SOUTHEASTWARD THROUGH SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WHILE
A STATIONARY BOUNDARY WAS DRAPED THROUGH THE GREAT BASIN INTO THE
COLORADO ROCKIES. NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADARS AND
SURFACE OBSERVATIONS INDICATED LIGHT TO MODERATE RAIN OR SNOW FROM
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AND NEVADA EASTWARD INTO ARIZONA. ISOLATED
HEAVIER AREAS OF RAIN OR SNOW WERE ALSO INDICATED.

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL IN INCHES FROM 700 PM PST SUN DEC
06 THROUGH 600 PM PST MON DEC 07...

...ARIZONA...
FLAGSTAFF 11.6
WILLIAMS 8.0
BELLEMONT 7.2
GRAND CANYON ARPT 3.0

...CALIFORNIA...
ALPINE MEADOWS 42.0
KIRKWOOD 40.0
CISCO 5 ENE 35.0
KINGVALE 1.3 WSW 29.0
HOMEWOOD 2 SE 27.0
PROSSER CREEK RESERVOIR 24.0
FAIR PLAY 2.8 ESE 17.0
PLACERVILLE 2.9 WNW 13.0
SOUTH LAKE TAHOE 13.0
VOLCANO 5.4 NE 12.5
GRASS VALLEY 5.5 ESE 11.5
COLFAX 3.1 SW 11.0
ALTA SIERRA 0.4 WSW 10.0
SUSANVILLE 3.2 SSW 8.8
LAKE OF THE PINES 8.0
NEVADA CITY 5.4 W 5.2
FOLSOM 3.4 ESE 0.5
CARMICHAEL 1.4 W 0.3
SACRAMENTO 8.0 NE 0.1

...NEVADA...
HEAVENLY VALLEY 24.0
MT ROSE SKI AREA 23.0
CARSON CITY 1.3 NW 18.0
DAYTON 1.7 SW 13.0
RENO 7.1 N 12.0
MINDEN 4.2 WSW 10.5
DAYTON 3.5 NNE 10.0
INDIAN HILLS 0.7 N 10.0
SUN VALLEY 0.9 N 8.5
SPARKS 7.5 N 6.5
FALLON 0.8 WSW 6.3
FERNLEY 1.8 WNW 6.0

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL RAINFALL IN INCHES FROM 700 PM PST SUN DEC
06 THROUGH 600 PM PST MON DEC 07...

...CALIFORNIA...
LYTLE CREEK RAWS 2.77
HENSHAW DAM 2.36
JULIAN 2.36
POTRERO 2.27
SANTA YSABEL 2.17
LAKE CUYAMACA 2.09
PATERA RANCH 2.08
SANTA BARBARA MUNI ARPT 1.93
SAN DIEGO/BROWN FIELD 1.79

...SELECTED PEAK WIND GUSTS IN MILES PER HOUR EARLIER IN THE
EVENT...

...CALIFORNIA...
SANDBERG 51
SAN CLEMENTE 50
SAN DIEGO NORTH ISLAND 47


THE STORM SYSTEM WILL CONTINUE TO DEVELOP OVERNIGHT AS IT MOVES
INTO WESTERN COLORADO BY TUESDAY MORNING. SNOWFALL AMOUNTS WILL
RANGE FROM 1 TO 2 FEET ACROSS THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS OF COLORADO
OVERNIGHT. ADDITIONAL RAINFALL IS FORECAST TO AVERAGE ABOUT 1 TO 2
INCHES FROM ARIZONA NORTHEASTWARD INTO COLORADO WITH ISOLATED
HIGHER AMOUNTS. THE PRECIPITATION WILL EXPAND INTO THE PLAINS
THROUGHOUT THE DAY TUESDAY WITH AN INCREASING CHANCE OF HEAVIER
RAIN ALONG THE LOWER MISSISSIPPI VALLEY AND WIND BLOWN SNOW ACROSS
THE UPPER MIDWEST.
THE NEXT STORM SUMMARY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL
PREDICTION CENTER AT 100 AM PST. PLEASE REFER TO YOUR LOCAL
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THIS
EVENT.
1028. Patrap
Well,since Archie Manning first played here as a rookie long a time ago,..in a Stadium Now Long Gone here,..
I find it cool both his sons who grew up here Both have a Ring.

They are NOLA's # 1 Family the Mannings,who Live Uptown.

Archie and His wife are Huge Fans of the Saints,Colts and Giants.
A Colts/Saints Super Bowl is a Juicy Dream,...
Just as you predicted Bordonaro!
1030. Patrap
Quoting miajrz:

And thank you for that wonderful NoLa December 2004 picture!


Yeah,,thats a Nice one from that day.Xmas Day 2004..
Quoting Patrap:
Well,since Archie Manning first played here as a rookie long a time ago,..in a Stadium Now Long Gone here,..
I find it cool both his sons who grew up here Both have a Ring.

They are NOLA's # 1 Family the Mannings,who Live Uptown here.

Archie and His wife are Huge Fans of the Saints,Colts and Giants.
A Colts/Saints Super Bowl is a Juicy Dream here,...


And both still undefeated...Could you imagine!!!!! The most-watched Super Bowl ever!
That picture looks like it could of come from the movie "Meet Me In St. Louis"!
I had to write an "Executive Summary" on a public policy topic of my choice and I chose "Global Warming Policy and H.R. 2454" (The American Clean Energy Security Act of 2009) aka the Waxman-Markley Comprehensive Energy Bill which passed in the House of Representatives on June 25, 2009.

As an addendum, I suggested my professor check out Dr. Masters' blog regarding the "Big Tobacco/Big Oil" pr campaigns. He evidently read the blog and liked it so much he advised me to post a link in our "notes" section for the class!!!!

Yowee. That to me is a score as UCF appears pretty well-respected in the public policy arena and Dr. Jurie has been around for a while!
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:
Just as you predicted Bordonaro!
something wicked this way comes
Pat...you have a Portlight outtie mail, sir...
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
something wicked this way comes


No...I'm staying home.
1037. Patrap
Whenever it Snows here in New Orleans,it reminds me of scenes from Dr.Zhivago,the Movie..of the Russian Winters.

Some things stick in yer Memory from youth.
Saw that one in a Big Theater here on Canal Street.
Oh yea when they are in the summer house.







I love that part. Now they remind me of Jan back in Anchorage.
1039. Patrap
Rog,press..

1040. Patrap
.."Nice stuff Yuri",..I mean JF..

LOL
My God that was a great movie...
1042. Drakoen
The low pressure system that is bringing snow to the southwest is poised to take aim at the Great Lakes Region over the next 48 hours with strong cyclogenesis as the system rides the jet stream. The 500mb forecast shows a nice negatively tiled trough. The GFS shows a 981mb low and the GFSP shows a 979mb low just east of Chicago early Wednesday morning. Expecting heavy snowfall amounts and blizzard conditions over the northern plains region with winds 25-30knots across the core snow region.



Looks like a monster
------
question,

I have a high wind watch for wednesday, a friend of mine wants to go sailing on a small lake, should I go?
1048. Patrap
Wear a Life Vest and carry a Epirb on your vessel.
Check NOAA Marine Forecast too.


..Arrrrgggghhh!!
Quoting Patrap:
Wear a Life Vest and carry a Epirb on your vessel.
Check NOAA Marine Forecast too.



oh ok, thanks!

it seems like a great sailing day, just wasnt sure about the winds, should be ok
Quoting Patrap:
wunderground Global Marine Map


liked the Arghhhh! haha thanks again
Quoting tornadodude:
question,

I have a high wind watch for wednesday, a friend of mine wants to go sailing on a small lake, should I go?


TornadoDude, read this, then slap your friend upside the head!!

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE INDIANAPOLIS IN
948 PM EST MON DEC 7 2009

...HIGH WINDS POSSIBLE ON WEDNESDAY...

.A STRENGTHENING LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM WILL MOVE FROM THE PLAINS
THROUGH THE GREAT LAKES ON TUESDAY NIGHT AND WEDNESDAY. THIS WILL
BRING STRONG WINDS TO CENTRAL INDIANA BEHIND A COLD FRONT
STARTING ON WEDNESDAY MORNING AND LASTING THROUGH THE DAY.

INZ021-028>031-035>049-051>057-060>065-067>072-081100-
/O.CON.KIND.HW.A.0002.091209T1200Z-091210T0600Z/
CARROLL-WARREN-TIPPECANOE-CLINTON-HOWARD-FOUNTAIN-MONTGOMERY-
BOONE-TIPTON-HAMILTON-MADISON-DELAWARE-RANDOLPH-VERMILLION-PARKE-
PUTNAM-HENDRICKS-MARION-HANCOCK-HENRY-VIGO-CLAY-OWEN-MORGAN-
JOHNSON-SHELBY-RUSH-SULLIVAN-GREENE-MONROE-BROWN-BARTHOLOMEW-
DECATUR-KNOX-DAVIESS-MARTIN-LAWRENCE-JACKSON-JENNINGS-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...LAFAYETTE...FRANKFORT...KOKOMO...
CRAWFORDSVILLE...ANDERSON...MUNCIE...INDIANAPOLIS...TERRE HAUTE...
SHELBYVILLE...BLOOMINGTON...COLUMBUS...VINCENNES...BEDFORD...
SEYMOUR
948 PM EST MON DEC 7 2009

...HIGH WIND WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY MORNING
THROUGH LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT...

A HIGH WIND WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY MORNING
THROUGH LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT.

* TIMING: THE WINDS ARE EXPECTED TO BECOME STRONG BEGINNING
WEDNESDAY MORNING AFTER 7 AM AND CONTINUING THROUGH 1 AM
THURSDAY MORNING.

* WINDS: SUSTAINED WINDS UP TO 35 MPH ARE EXPECTED WITH GUSTS IN
EXCESS OF 50 MPH MPH POSSIBLE.


* IMPACTS: HIGH PROFILE VEHICLES MAY HAVE DIFFICULTIES
TRAVELLING AND COULD BE BLOWN OFF THE ROAD. LOOSE FURNITURE OR
LAWN ITEMS MAY BE BLOWN AWAY.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A HIGH WIND WATCH MEANS THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR A HAZARDOUS
HIGH WIND EVENT. SUSTAINED WINDS OF AT LEAST 40 MPH...OR GUSTS OF
58 MPH OR STRONGER MAY OCCUR. CONTINUE TO MONITOR THE LATEST
FORECASTS.
Quoting Bordonaro:

TornadoDude, read this, then slap your friend upside the head!!


funny thing is that he actually put that watch in the email....

he said it was an opportunity he couldnt pass up
Quoting tornadodude:
question,

I have a high wind watch for wednesday, a friend of mine wants to go sailing on a small lake, should I go?


DO NOT DO IT! YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!

THE BIGGEST STORY FOR WEDNESDAY APPEARS TO BE THE WINDS. THE SURFACE
LOW IS PROGGED TO STRENGTHEN RAPIDLY AS IT MAKES ITS WAY FROM THE
PLAINS TUESDAY NIGHT THROUGH MICHIGAN WEDNESDAY. A VERY TIGHT
PRESSURE GRADIENT ON THE BACK SIDE OF THIS LOW WILL MOVE THROUGH
CENTRAL INDIANA. WINDS LOOK UNIDIRECTIONAL WITH HEIGHT UP TO 3000 TO
5000 FT AND THIS COULD MIX WINDS OF 40 KTS /SOME MODELS HIGHER THAN
50/ DOWN TO THE SURFACE PRODUCING WIND GUSTS OF OVER 40 MPH AND
POSSIBLY REACHING 60 MPH. WITH POTENTIAL FOR HIGHER GUSTS WILL GO
AHEAD AT THIS TIME AND ISSUE A HIGH WIND WATCH FOR THE DAY.


Quoting Bordonaro:


DO NOT DO IT! YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!

THE BIGGEST STORY FOR WEDNESDAY APPEARS TO BE THE WINDS. THE SURFACE
LOW IS PROGGED TO STRENGTHEN RAPIDLY AS IT MAKES ITS WAY FROM THE
PLAINS TUESDAY NIGHT THROUGH MICHIGAN WEDNESDAY. A VERY TIGHT
PRESSURE GRADIENT ON THE BACK SIDE OF THIS LOW WILL MOVE THROUGH
CENTRAL INDIANA. WINDS LOOK UNIDIRECTIONAL WITH HEIGHT UP TO 3000 TO
5000 FT AND THIS COULD MIX WINDS OF 40 KTS /SOME MODELS HIGHER THAN
50/ DOWN TO THE SURFACE PRODUCING WIND GUSTS OF OVER 40 MPH AND
POSSIBLY REACHING 60 MPH. WITH POTENTIAL FOR HIGHER GUSTS WILL GO
AHEAD AT THIS TIME AND ISSUE A HIGH WIND WATCH FOR THE DAY.




oh wow!
Quoting tornadodude:


funny thing is that he actually put that watch in the email....

he said it was an opportunity he couldnt pass up


Make sure you have a life jacket, a survival suit, and let someone else know where you're at, in case something happens. It will be in the 40's, the wind chill will be near 30, the lake temps are about 45-50. Hypothermia sets in within 10 minutes.

DO NOT GO!!!!
Quoting Bordonaro:


Make sure you have a life jacket, a survival suit, and let someone else know where you're at, in case something happens. It will be in the 40's, the wind chill will be near 30, the lake temps are about 45-50. Hypothermia sets in within 10 minutes.

DO NOT GO!!!!


I wont
Tornado Dude. Remember the football players who went on a boating trip earlier this year in the GOM. Their boat capsized in rough seas, the sea temps were about 60F. Three of them succumb to hypothermia and died. They were in the prime of their life..healthy, strong, very very rich and they had wives and families.

They threw their lives away, they were unprepared, they perished. do NOT let this happen to YOU!!
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Oh yea when they are in the summer house.







I love that part. Now they remind me of Jan back in Anchorage.




that photo gives me the CHILLs
Quoting Bordonaro:
Tornado Dude. Remember the football players who went on a boating trip earlier this year in the GOM. Their boat capsized in rough seas, the sea temps were about 60F. Three of them succumb to hypothermia and died. They were in the prime of their life..healthy, strong, very very rich and they had wives and families.

They threw their lives away, they were unprepared, they perished. do NOT let this happen to YOU!!


I wont, I appreciate your concern!
DO NOT GO!!!!

For the life of me I cannot remember
What made us think that we were wise and we'd never compromise
For the life of me I cannot believe we'd ever die for these sins
We were merely freshmen

We were merely freshmen
We were only freshmen

[What a depressing song; still like it, though -- Matt, are you sure your friend wasn't yanking your chain? Or triple-dog daring you?
Too darn cold to be out on the water, except for a pro or Hooligan's Navy (a Coastie) anyway!]
Switzer Canyon, Flagstaff, Arizona (PWS)
Updated: 39 sec ago
31.6 °F
Snow Freezing Fog
Windchill: 32 °F
Humidity: 98%
Dew Point: 31 °F
Wind: 0.0 mph
Wind Gust: 0.0 mph
Pressure: 29.53 in (Falling)

Quoting tornadodude:


I wont, I appreciate your concern!
Coast Guard Calls Off Search for 3 Missing Football Players
Tuesday, March 03, 2009


Print ShareThis
FNC


The overturned boat that was carrying four football players on a fishing trip is seen in the Gulf of Mexico.
The overturned boat that was carrying four football players on a fishing trip is seen in the Gulf of Mexico.
The Coast Guard called off its search for three missing football players at sunset Tuesday.

The news came after crews combed choppy waters off the Florida Gulf Coast for a third full day since NFL players Marquis Cooper and Corey Smith and friend William Bleakley disappeared. Their fishing boat capsized in stormy seas Saturday evening.

One of the four on the excursion, Nick Schuyler, survived. He said the four friends were able to put on life vests and huddle together, but the others eventually became separated.

Coast Guard Capt. Timothy Close told reporters that the crews were wrapping up their search by the time the sun went down, but commended their efforts.

Click here for photos.

"It's a very, very dynamic environment out there on the open sea," he said.

The Coast Guard said it doesn't believe anyone is on the surface of the water.

"We're extremely confident that if there are any survivors on the surface of the water that we would have found them," Close said.

Searchers found an orange life vest and a cooler floating in the water 16 miles southeast of the boat Tuesday afternoon.

The discovery of the vest came as the father of one of the lost NFL players said the Coast Guard's hopes of finding the three alive were waning.

Bruce Cooper — whose son, Oakland Raiders linebacker Marquis Cooper, owns the boat that capsized while he was fishing with three friends — said the Coast Guard told families privately that officials weren't optimistic because of the time that had passed and the possibility of hypothermia.

Lions running back Kevin Smith called Corey Smith "a good, quiet guy, who always put in an honest day's work."

Contrary to earlier reports, Capt. Close said the two missing NFL players and a third man — along with the fourth, surviving boater — were without the vests the moment they went overboard.

Related StoriesMissing NFL Players Face Dwindling Odds at Sea
Coast Guard: Weather Makes Search for Missing NFL Players Tough
No SOS Signal Received From Missing NFL Players
Photo EssaysNFL Players Among Missing Boaters
"They didn’t have their life jackets on, but they immediately swam under the boat ... and were able to put the life jackets on," Close told reporters Tuesday.

He said Cooper, free-agent defensive lineman Smith, former University of South Florida player Bleakley and survivor Schuyler were contending with very windy, harsh conditions.

"The weather picked up ... and got rough," Close said. "These gentlemen were out in the dark with no lights on."

The Coast Guard crews embarked on another intensive search in still-chilly Florida seas after the weekend accident.

Close said three vessels, a plane and a helicopter would continue aggressively hunting through the day for signs of Cooper, Smith and Bleakley.

The fourth person with them, ex-South Florida football player Schuyler, was found alive and conscious but very weak on Monday clinging to the overturned 21-foot boat owned by Cooper.

"The plan right now is to continue the search through the day," Close told reporters Tuesday. "We're still very actively searching."

In addition to the inflatable life vest found Tuesday afternoon, Close said crews earlier discovered a regular jacket in the water but no other signs of the three missing men, he said.

"We did find one dark jacket floating, no name on it," said Close. "That's it so far."

Investigators were able to get only scant details of what happened from Schuyler because of his condition — but what he told them allowed Coast Guard teams to narrow their effort Monday and Tuesday to a smaller patch of sea near Clearwater.

"Mr. Schuyler was obviously very exhausted, cold and dehydrated, so we were only able to get a little information," Close said.

The Coast Guard said searchers spotted Schuyler off the coast of Florida from a half-mile away and he helped himself into a small rescue boat.

The lieutenant commander and operations coordinator on the Coast Guard cutter that located the Ohio native said the 24-year-old college player had a life jacket on and was responding to the crew.

Schuyler was dehydrated and suffering from hypothermia when he was found hanging onto the hull 35 miles south of Clearwater. But his condition improved to fair at a hospital Tuesday.

He told rescuers that the boat was anchored when it flipped Saturday evening in rough seas.

Searchers have covered more than 20,000 square miles, according to Close. Their path took them south of where the boat flipped over. Weather conditions improved Tuesday.

Close wouldn't speculate Tuesday morning on the men's chances of being rescued alive.

The missing players faced dwindling odds of survival after more than two days in the water, though their size and good health could have helped them fight hypothermia.

"With all of these men being past, present football players, they do have a much larger physique than a lot of people," Petty Officer Robert Simpson said. "So their odds are going to be definitely in their favor."

Cooper, 26, is 6-foot-3, 230 pounds; Smith, 29, is 6-foot-2, 250 pounds. Bleakley, 25, played tight end but his size wasn't immediately known.

Hypothermia can set in after 18 hours in 64-degree water. Water temperatures were in the mid- to upper-60s Tuesday.

Bruce Cooper told reporters Tuesday that he's "mentally exhausted" and the experience has been "gut-wrenching," but he is trying to "stay strong" for his family. He has faith his son could still be alive.

"He's a fighter. He doesn't back down. He's just an extreme fighter," the worried father said. "I'm hoping he's out in the waters right now just fighting. He doesn't give up."

He said he'd been out fishing with his son a few years ago, and Marquis went every chance he got.

"He loved fishing, loved the water," Bruce Cooper said. "He's a gregarious, outgoing, fun-loving kid. He’d invite you to go fishing with him."

The men's families and Schuyler said they had flares aboard, in addition to the inflatable jackets.

Schuyler's mother, Marsha Schuyler, said her son told her he survived by thinking about how he didn't want her to go to his funeral.

Jack Scharf, Cooper's agent, said he had no comment on the Coast Guard's announcement about the end of the search. A man who answered the phone at the home of Smith's father, sounding upset, said no one there could comment.

James Allen, a marine safety consultant who once worked search and rescue operations with the Coast Guard, said the chances of finding survivors diminish after people have been in the water three days.

Survivors have been found who were floating for days, but "you just can't swim forever," Allen said.

The four men left Clearwater Pass early Saturday in calm weather, but heavy winds picked up through the day and the waters grew rough, with waves of 7 feet and higher that peaked at 15 feet on Sunday.

A relative alerted the Coast Guard early Sunday after the men did not return as expected. The Coast Guard said it did not receive a distress signal.

The men were aboard an Everglades-manufactured boat, which is built with compressed foam encased in fiberglas, making it difficult to sink.

Cooper, a 26-year-old who owns the boat, was selected in the third round of the 2004 draft by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers out of Washington. He played 26 games for the Bucs in his first two pro seasons, then led a nomadic NFL existence.

Cooper and Smith, 29, became friends when they were teammates at Tampa Bay. Smith signed with the Bucs as an undrafted free agent in 2002, and spent last season with Detroit before becoming a free agent. The former North Carolina State standout recorded 42 tackles (28 solo), three sacks and 10 special teams tackles in 2008, his best NFL season.

Bleakley, a 25-year-old former tight end from Crystal River, Fla., was on the USF football team in 2004 and 2005. He had one reception for 13 yards in his career, which also included some time on special teams.

Click here for more on this story from MyFOXTampaBay.com.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

See Next Story in U.S.


Quoting Bordonaro:


TornadoDude, read this, then slap your friend upside the head!!

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE INDIANAPOLIS IN
948 PM EST MON DEC 7 2009

...HIGH WINDS POSSIBLE ON WEDNESDAY...

.A STRENGTHENING LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM WILL MOVE FROM THE PLAINS
THROUGH THE GREAT LAKES ON TUESDAY NIGHT AND WEDNESDAY. THIS WILL
BRING STRONG WINDS TO CENTRAL INDIANA BEHIND A COLD FRONT
STARTING ON WEDNESDAY MORNING AND LASTING THROUGH THE DAY.

INZ021-028>031-035>049-051>057-060>065-067>072-081100-
/O.CON.KIND.HW.A.0002.091209T1200Z-091210T0600Z/
CARROLL-WARREN-TIPPECANOE-CLINTON-HOWARD-FOUNTAIN-MONTGOMERY-
BOONE-TIPTON-HAMILTON-MADISON-DELAWARE-RANDOLPH-VERMILLION-PARKE-
PUTNAM-HENDRICKS-MARION-HANCOCK-HENRY-VIGO-CLAY-OWEN-MORGAN-
JOHNSON-SHELBY-RUSH-SULLIVAN-GREENE-MONROE-BROWN-BARTHOLOMEW-
DECATUR-KNOX-DAVIESS-MARTIN-LAWRENCE-JACKSON-JENNINGS-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...LAFAYETTE...FRANKFORT...KOKOMO...
CRAWFORDSVILLE...ANDERSON...MUNCIE...INDIANAPOLIS...TERRE HAUTE...
SHELBYVILLE...BLOOMINGTON...COLUMBUS...VINCENNES...BEDFORD...
SEYMOUR
948 PM EST MON DEC 7 2009

...HIGH WIND WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY MORNING
THROUGH LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT...

A HIGH WIND WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY MORNING
THROUGH LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT.

* TIMING: THE WINDS ARE EXPECTED TO BECOME STRONG BEGINNING
WEDNESDAY MORNING AFTER 7 AM AND CONTINUING THROUGH 1 AM
THURSDAY MORNING.

* WINDS: SUSTAINED WINDS UP TO 35 MPH ARE EXPECTED WITH GUSTS IN
EXCESS OF 50 MPH MPH POSSIBLE.


* IMPACTS: HIGH PROFILE VEHICLES MAY HAVE DIFFICULTIES
TRAVELLING AND COULD BE BLOWN OFF THE ROAD. LOOSE FURNITURE OR
LAWN ITEMS MAY BE BLOWN AWAY.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A HIGH WIND WATCH MEANS THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR A HAZARDOUS
HIGH WIND EVENT. SUSTAINED WINDS OF AT LEAST 40 MPH...OR GUSTS OF
58 MPH OR STRONGER MAY OCCUR. CONTINUE TO MONITOR THE LATEST
FORECASTS.



slap your friend upside the head!!



that would hurt ii got it put some cold icy water from the lake and poor it down his back
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
DO NOT GO!!!!

For the life of me I cannot remember
What made us think that we were wise and we'd never compromise
For the life of me I cannot believe we'd ever die for these sins
We were merely freshmen

We were merely freshmen
We were only freshmen

[What a depressing song; still like it, though -- Matt, are you sure your friend wasn't yanking your chain? Or triple-dog daring you?
Too darn cold to be out on the water, except for a pro or Hooligan's Navy (a Coastie) anyway!]


he definitely wasnt pulling my leg :P he has a boat that he races, and goes up to michigan all the time, I'm not going.

I was being somewhat sarcastic when I first posed the question
brrrr!!!
-70 and Kipling, Arvada, Colorado (PWS)
Updated: 5 min 9 sec ago
7.2 °F
Light Snow Mist
Windchill: 7 °F
Humidity: 80%
Dew Point: 2 °F
Wind: 1.0 mph from the NNW
Wind Gust: 2.0 mph
Pressure: 30.08 in (Falling)
Visibility: 5.0 miles

Quoting tornadodude:


funny thing is that he actually put that watch in the email....

he said it was an opportunity he couldnt pass up


You have ALOT to offer while you're here on planet Earth. Maybe the God in Heaven wants you to complete your FULL mission on Earth. You are a very special young man, whether you truely recognize that or not, I am not sure.

I apologize for scolding you or yelling. I have 5 children, they are ages 37, 34, 26, 25 and 22. Plus my "special daughter" who is 25. I know how much fun or what a challenge that sounds like. IF it was 85F outside and the lake was 70F, and the SW winds blew at 35-50MPH, I'd say, "Knock yourself out. wear a life jacket"! However, the water temps, quite frankly would put your life in danger within 5 minutes.

Be safe, Bob
here is the email I received, it was addressed to all members of my fraternity:

"So, throughout the year, i have said how i will continue to sail as long as
possible, and that sailing is a year round sport. this is an opportunity to
great to skip. I will be done with class around 1145, and ready to sail as soon
as 1230, but will late to later if needed. i will most likely head to Harken
Lake (only about a 5-10min drive from campus) let me know if your interested or
need a ride!


This is the wind forecast for Wednesday:


High Wind Watch
Statement as of 9:48 PM EST on December 07, 2009


.. High wind watch remains in effect from Wednesday morning
through late Wednesday night...

A high wind watch remains in effect from Wednesday morning
through late Wednesday night.

* Timing: the winds are expected to become strong beginning
Wednesday morning after 7 am and continuing through 1 am
Thursday morning.

*Winds: sustained winds up to 35 mph are expected with gusts in
excess of 50 mph mph possible.


* Impacts: high profile vehicles may have difficulties
travelling and could be blown off the Road. Loose furniture or
lawn items may be blown away.

Precautionary/preparedness actions...

A high wind watch means there is the potential for a hazardous
high wind event. Sustained winds of at least 40 mph... or gusts of
58 mph or stronger may occur. Continue to monitor the latest
forecasts.


this ignoring this opportunity just seems foolish doesn't it? so if anyone is
interested in some SUPER high wind sailing on wed let me know. i will be done
with class around 1145, and ready to sail as soon as 1230. let me know if your
interested!

-Josh Borchardt"
Quoting Bordonaro:


You have ALOT to offer while you're here on planet Earth. Maybe the God in Heaven wants you to complete your FULL mission on Earth. You are a very special young man, whether you truely recognize that or not, I am not sure.

I apologize for scolding you or yelling. I have 5 children, they are ages 37, 34, 26, 25 and 22. Plus my "special daughter" who is 25. I know how much fun or what a challenge that sounds like. IF it was 85F outside and the lake was 70F, and the SW winds blew at 35-50MPH, I'd say, "Knock yourself out. wear a life jacket"! However, the water temps, quite frankly would put your life in danger within 5 minutes.

Be safe, Bob


I completely understand and respect your opinion, and I agree 100%.

Thanks!
Quoting tornadodude:


he definitely wasnt pulling my leg :P he has a boat that he races, and goes up to michigan all the time, I'm not going.

I was being somewhat sarcastic when I first posed the question


Oh, good...but wudda' if you cudda', he he.

Deepak Chopra just told Conan O'Brien,
"Humor is when your soul recognizes a paradox and it laughs."

Chopra also told Conan that he could tell Conan was very uncomfortable with his body, so he should face his fears and do his show naked.
He said it straight...LOL.
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:


Oh, good...but wudda' if you cudda', he he.

Deepak Chopra just told Conan O'Brien,
"Humor is when your soul recognizes a paradox and it laughs."

Chopra also told Conan that he could tell Conan was very uncomfortable with his body, so he should face his fears and do his show naked.
He said it straight...LOL.


wow LOL I love that show
Quoting tornadodude:
here is the email I received, it was addressed to all members of my fraternity:

"So, throughout the year, i have said how i will continue to sail as long as
possible, and that sailing is a year round sport. this is an opportunity to
great to skip. I will be done with class around 1145, and ready to sail as soon
as 1230, but will late to later if needed. i will most likely head to Harken
Lake (only about a 5-10min drive from campus) let me know if your interested or
need a ride!


This is the wind forecast for Wednesday:


High Wind Watch
Statement as of 9:48 PM EST on December 07, 2009


.. High wind watch remains in effect from Wednesday morning
through late Wednesday night...

A high wind watch remains in effect from Wednesday morning
through late Wednesday night.

* Timing: the winds are expected to become strong beginning
Wednesday morning after 7 am and continuing through 1 am
Thursday morning.

*Winds: sustained winds up to 35 mph are expected with gusts in
excess of 50 mph mph possible.


* Impacts: high profile vehicles may have difficulties
travelling and could be blown off the Road. Loose furniture or
lawn items may be blown away.

Precautionary/preparedness actions...

A high wind watch means there is the potential for a hazardous
high wind event. Sustained winds of at least 40 mph... or gusts of
58 mph or stronger may occur. Continue to monitor the latest
forecasts.


this ignoring this opportunity just seems foolish doesn't it? so if anyone is
interested in some SUPER high wind sailing on wed let me know. i will be done
with class around 1145, and ready to sail as soon as 1230. let me know if your
interested!

-Josh Borchardt"


Tell Josh that he is placing his life in danger. Then, if her ignores your warning, we'll read about it on CNN and every major news network.
Quoting Bordonaro:


Tell Josh that he is placing his life in danger. Then, if her ignores your warning, we'll read about it on CNN and every major news network.


I told him, here is my email I sent back:

"From the Indianapolis NWS:

THE BIGGEST STORY FOR WEDNESDAY APPEARS TO BE THE WINDS. THE SURFACE
LOW IS PROGGED TO STRENGTHEN RAPIDLY AS IT MAKES ITS WAY FROM THE
PLAINS TUESDAY NIGHT THROUGH MICHIGAN WEDNESDAY. A VERY TIGHT
PRESSURE GRADIENT ON THE BACK SIDE OF THIS LOW WILL MOVE THROUGH
CENTRAL INDIANA. WINDS LOOK UNIDIRECTIONAL WITH HEIGHT UP TO 3000 TO
5000 FT AND THIS COULD MIX WINDS OF 40+ KTS /SOME MODELS HIGHER THAN
50/ DOWN TO THE SURFACE PRODUCING WIND GUSTS OF OVER 40 MPH AND
POSSIBLY REACHING 60 MPH. WITH POTENTIAL FOR HIGHER GUSTS WILL GO
AHEAD AT THIS TIME AND ISSUE A HIGH WIND WATCH FOR THE DAY.


something about that makes me think that being in 50 degree waters when it is
barely 40 degrees outside, with probably 30 degree windchills, says that I
should not go sailing when the winds are going to be up to 60 MPH, if not more.

so, I think I'll pass, and you should seriously reconsider your plans,

-Matt Phelps"
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:
Oh Good Grief:

Mayor Says "Muslim" Obama Blocked Charlie Brown
Posted by Brian Montopoli

Russell Wiseman, the mayor of Arlington, Tennessee, wrote a post on his Facebook page suggesting President Obama purposely preempted "The Charlie Brown Christmas Special" with his speech on the war in Afghanistan Tuesday evening.

Wiseman suggested the president is Muslim. Many Christians have embraced "The Charlie Brown Christmas Special" for what they percieve as a Christian message.

Here's what Wiseman wrote, as reported by the Commercial Appeal: "Ok, so, this is total crap, we sit the kids down to watch 'The Charlie Brown Christmas Special' and our muslim president is there, what a load.....try to convince me that wasn't done on purpose. Ask the man if he believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he will give you a 10 minute disertation (sic) about it....w...hen the answer should simply be 'yes'...."

"...you obama people need to move to a muslim country...oh wait, that's America....pitiful," he wrote.

Added Wiseman: "you know, our forefathers had it written in the original Constitution that ONLY property owners could vote, if that has stayed in there, things would be different........"
I guess this guy would definitely object to the "property" being able to vote.... I wonder how many Americans think the President of the United States really think of "Charlie Brown" as a "Christian" show, and how many really believe the President even noticed which show was on. If anything, his daughters prolly took him to task afterwards for preempting Charlie Brown....

But people thinking at this level will only ever see things from "their" point of view, which is why arguing abt. things like AGW with them is a waste of time. Especially when the one of the two major cold spots in the world is over them, while the rest of the world is warmer than average.... Talk about specious reasoning.....
Oh gosh, Jimmy Fallon is doing a funny bit on Copenhagen, who would have thought it would make late night comedy shows? I hope its online tomorrow so I can post a link.

Night, all. Take down the sails and drop anchor.
LOTS OF SNOW ON THE MAP !!

Quoting JFLORIDA:
THE GREAT SNOWSTORM OF 09?!





It's massive.

well I'm going to bed with hope of a new blog tomorrow, have a goodnight all!
NIGHT for me too. Homework.
Quoting tornadodude:


I told him, here is my email I sent back:

"From the Indianapolis NWS:

THE BIGGEST STORY FOR WEDNESDAY APPEARS TO BE THE WINDS. THE SURFACE
LOW IS PROGGED TO STRENGTHEN RAPIDLY AS IT MAKES ITS WAY FROM THE
PLAINS TUESDAY NIGHT THROUGH MICHIGAN WEDNESDAY. A VERY TIGHT
PRESSURE GRADIENT ON THE BACK SIDE OF THIS LOW WILL MOVE THROUGH
CENTRAL INDIANA. WINDS LOOK UNIDIRECTIONAL WITH HEIGHT UP TO 3000 TO
5000 FT AND THIS COULD MIX WINDS OF 40+ KTS /SOME MODELS HIGHER THAN
50/ DOWN TO THE SURFACE PRODUCING WIND GUSTS OF OVER 40 MPH AND
POSSIBLY REACHING 60 MPH. WITH POTENTIAL FOR HIGHER GUSTS WILL GO
AHEAD AT THIS TIME AND ISSUE A HIGH WIND WATCH FOR THE DAY.


something about that makes me think that being in 50 degree waters when it is
barely 40 degrees outside, with probably 30 degree windchills, says that I
should not go sailing when the winds are going to be up to 60 MPH, if not more.

so, I think I'll pass, and you should seriously reconsider your plans,

-Matt Phelps"


Proud of you Matt. O, I have done some real, real, real crazy things in my 48+ yrs here on planet Earth, many of them I regret to this day. I am a Spiritual person who has a strong faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who is far from perfect. Sailing in "gale/storm" force winds is suicidal.
Quoting BahaHurican:
I guess this guy would definitely object to the "property" being able to vote.... I wonder how many Americans think the President of the United States really think of "Charlie Brown" as a "Christian" show, and how many really believe the President even noticed which show was on. If anything, his daughters prolly took him to task afterwards for preempting Charlie Brown....

But people thinking at this level will only ever see things from "their" point of view, which is why arguing abt. things like AGW with them is a waste of time. Especially when the one of the two major cold spots in the world is over them, while the rest of the world is warmer than average.... Talk about specious reasoning.....


Critising your opponent as much as possible, its politics. Btw in the Charlie brown Christmas special Linus does quote scripture from the bible. In spite of that, hes just a crazy dude.
At 6:00 AM UTC, Intense Tropical Cyclone Cleo (947 hPa) located at 10.7S 76.4E has 10 minute sustained winds of 90 knots with gusts of 130 knots. The cyclone is reported as moving west-southwest at 10 knots.

RMSC Dvorak Intensity: T5.5

Hurricane Force Winds
======================


Storm Force Winds
===============


Gale-Force Winds
=================


Near Gale-Force Winds
=====================

Forecast and Intensity
========================
12 HRS: 11.5S 74.5E - 110 knots (Cyclone Tropical Intense)
24 HRS: 12.0S 72.8E - 100 knots (Cyclone Tropical Intense)
48 HRS: 12.9S 69.7E - 80 knots (Cyclone Tropical)
72 HRS: 13.0S 67.1E - 80 knots (Cyclone Tropical)

Additional Information
======================
Cyclone Cleo intensification rate is breaking Dvorak constraints. According to CIMSS data, system is in phasis with an upper level ridge and the wind shear is weak. Wator vapor imagery shows that upper level divergence remains fairly good over the system. It remains the best over the southern semi-circle, specially over the southwestern quadrant. According to ocean heat content data from RANMB/NOAA/CIRA system is currently located near an area of high ocean heat content. Undergoing good environmental conditions, this small system should reach rapidly its maximum intensity. At 12-24 hours, as the system moves away from this high ocean heat content area, the intensification should stop. Upper level conditions remains favorable within the next 3 days, and the intensity is expected to remain steady. The system tracks west southwestward on the northwestern edge of the slightly weakening subtropical ridge located in the southeast. Available Numerical Weather Prediction remains in good agreement with maintaining this general motion for the next 48 hours, thereafter, mid level steering flows are weaker and storm motion should decrease. This forecast is based on a consensus of the available models.

--
the information for hurricane, storm,or gale force winds was not available
guess I get a little early snow out of this system:

December 8, 1991
A late-season outbreak of severe thunderstorms moved across central Illinois. Baseball-size hail was reported at Manito in Mason County, as well as Tremont in Tazewell County. In Menard County, tennis-ball size hail was reported at Petersburg. A tornado touched down in far southern McLean County near the town of McLean and moved east to near Heyworth. This tornado caused some damage to a manufacturing plant, as well as several outbuildings on farms along the storm's path.
NOLA area is lookng bad now - ill be in my blog for a bit around school is flashing like crazy,
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING
LAC051-089-080800-
/O.NEW.KLIX.SV.W.0183.091208T0736Z-091208T0800Z/

BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
136 AM CST TUE DEC 8 2009

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN NEW ORLEANS HAS ISSUED A

* SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING FOR...
NORTHWESTERN JEFFERSON PARISH IN SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA...
THIS INCLUDES THE CITIES OF...METAIRIE...KENNER...
NORTHERN ST. CHARLES PARISH IN SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA...
THIS INCLUDES THE CITY OF HAHNVILLE...

* UNTIL 200 AM CST

* AT 136 AM CST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS DETECTED A
LINE OF SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS CAPABLE OF PRODUCING DAMAGING WINDS IN
EXCESS OF 60 MPH. THESE STORMS WERE LOCATED ALONG A LINE EXTENDING
FROM 12 MILES NORTHEAST OF NORCO TO KENNER TO BOUTTE...OR ALONG A
LINE EXTENDING FROM 12 MILES NORTHEAST OF LAPLACE TO KENNER TO 8
MILES SOUTH OF HAHNVILLE...AND MOVING EAST AT 30 MPH.

* OTHER LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO NEW
ORLEANS ARMSTRONG AIRPORT...WAGGAMAN AND HARAHAN

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

THIS IS A DANGEROUS STORM. IF YOU ARE IN ITS PATH...PREPARE
IMMEDIATELY FOR DAMAGING WINDS...DESTRUCTIVE HAIL...AND DEADLY CLOUD
TO GROUND LIGHTNING. PEOPLE OUTSIDE SHOULD MOVE TO A SHELTER...
PREFERABLY INSIDE A STRONG BUILDING BUT AWAY FROM WINDOWS.

&&

LAT...LON 2999 9043 3006 9044 3008 9040 3006 9037
3006 9026 3003 9018 3002 9012 3000 9012
2989 9020 2984 9044
TIME...MOT...LOC 0736Z 251DEG 27KT 3015 9030 3002 9028
2986 9042

$$
Morning everybody.

Looks like Cleo has intensified pretty rapidly overnight (our night, anyway lol). Interesting for this relatively early in the season there....



Tiny but powerful. Wonder if it'll remain this small throughout it's life, or if it'll grow with an EWRC...

06R - RSMC REUNION

2009DEC08 083000 T5.7 939.4/ +4.0 /107.2kts T5.7 Adj T5.9 Raw T6.3

-----------

939 hPa..
Breaking News from MSNBC...Ambulance Rushes Woman From Tiger Woods' Home Link
1092. IKE
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:
Breaking News from MSNBC...Ambulance Rushes Woman From Tiger Woods' Home Link


Man...his life has gone south so fast.

What the hell are you doing, Tiger?

If he ever returns to the PGA tour he's going to hear it from fans on the course.


I wish that family well. Some things shouldn't be entertainment.
Y'know, Jeff, it's not the scientists I'm disgusted with, it's the people who take their research and act as if it is the be-all, end-all, absolute truth, and no other research is possible or true. You can't take a 1-inch square piece of canvas from a Picasso and study it for 10 years and make your determinations of the artist from that, or take a slide from the cells of the gut of a human and determine how many hairs he has; and it seems to me that THAT is what many scientists do. The fact that so many people are willing to put billions of other peoples' dollars behind research (and many making profit on it themselves, oddly enough!) that could turn out to be false is reprehensible. There are a lot of hysterical lunatics and fanatics on both sides of the fence, some bought and paid for, and using them to represent either side is insulting to those who either research or respect real, repeatable, provable research and science. (I think that many honest decent scientists are embarrassed by a certain ketchup-mogul turned politician-cum-bellringer, too.)It isn't the denial or support of 'global warming' or 'climate change' that is important, it is the fact that not all research is taken into account, but only selected research. Personally, I'd love it if my Zone 4 changed to a Zone 9, but I just don't think it is going to happen in my lifetime - or yours. There are too many variables and hypotheses, and too much information left out by accident or design, to take any of it as passionately as many do. This elephant isn't a rope, a snake, a tree; it is an elephant, and the whole gamut of information needs to be assessed without passion or profit. JMHO.
Isnt that why we have science and the peer review system?
six months ago leftovers gave the official leftover's pacific swell forecast well seems as if leftovers has nailed it who said this character does not know weather. anyway off and away going to catch a piece of this heading to the pacific side of nicaraqua this afternoon. going to get the leftovers of the giant swell hitting hawaii today happy weather
1097. hcubed
Quoting StSimonsIslandGAGuy:
atmosaggie, there is not one shred of evidence that CO2 would be rising today if not for human fossil fuel emissions. Not one bit of evidence. And C-14 isotope ratios have proven that the rise in CO2 concentrations are from fossil fuel emissions. The Vostok ice core record proves that we have increased CO2 levels to far beyond anything the world has experienced in the past million years.

That's all settled, and not one reputable climate scientist says otherwise.


What about natural fires?

I'm reminded about this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4330469.stm

"But the scale of China's own entangled history with coal is overwhelming. Right across northern China, coal seams burn in un-stoppable fires.

Some have been burning naturally for thousands of years, but others are being set alight by small-scale mining operations seeking to cash in on soaring coal prices. Together, these perpetual fires are letting off a total amount of carbon dioxide each year equal to all the cars in the USA."

But hey, China is a developing country, so it doesn't matter...
Quoting backwoodsgurl:
Y'know, Jeff, it's not the scientists I'm disgusted with, it's the people who take their research and act as if it is the be-all, end-all, absolute truth, and no other research is possible or true. You can't take a 1-inch square piece of canvas from a Picasso and study it for 10 years and make your determinations of the artist from that, or take a slide from the cells of the gut of a human and determine how many hairs he has; and it seems to me that THAT is what many scientists do. The fact that so many people are willing to put billions of other peoples' dollars behind research (and many making profit on it themselves, oddly enough!) that could turn out to be false is reprehensible. There are a lot of hysterical lunatics and fanatics on both sides of the fence, some bought and paid for, and using them to represent either side is insulting to those who either research or respect real, repeatable, provable research and science. It isn't the denial or support of 'global warming' or 'climate change' that is important, it is the fact that not all research is taken into account, but only selected research. Personally, I'd love it if my Zone 4 changed to a Zone 9, but I just don't think it is going to happen in my lifetime - or yours. There are too many variables and hypotheses, and too much information left out by accident or design, to take any of it as passionately as many do. This elephant isn't a rope, a snake, a tree; it is an elephant, and the whole gamut of information needs to be assessed without passion or profit. JMHO.


Really? I don't think so. GW has been explained for 20 years now.
Quoting hcubed:


What about natural fires?

I'm reminded about this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4330469.stm

"But the scale of China's own entangled history with coal is overwhelming. Right across northern China, coal seams burn in un-stoppable fires.

Some have been burning naturally for thousands of years, but others are being set alight by small-scale mining operations seeking to cash in on soaring coal prices. Together, these perpetual fires are letting off a total amount of carbon dioxide each year equal to all the cars in the USA."

But hey, China is a developing country, so it doesn't matter...


Read the posts - Radio isotopes of carbon 14 were traced CONCLUSIVELY back to fossil fuels. What is the point where people that refuse to look at the research but continue to dictate policy are cut off?

Also fires would cool climate initially.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
I wish that family well. Some things shouldn't be entertainment.



Thats probably the first post of yours I agree with. lol
1101. hcubed
Quoting JFLORIDA:


Read the posts - Radio isotopes of carbon 14 were traced CONCLUSIVELY back to fossil fuels. What is the point where people that refuse to look at the research but continue to dictate policy are cut off?

Also fires would cool climate initially.


I did read his post.

He stated: "atmosaggie, there is not one shred of evidence that CO2 would be rising today if not for human fossil fuel emissions."

I asked about NATURAL fires.

"...Right across northern China, coal seams burn in un-stoppable fires. Some have been burning naturally for thousands of years..."

This CO2 is NOT because of HUMAN fossil fuel emissions.
Good Morning!

Wow that is an impressive Low in the central US.
China's coal fires, which consume an estimated 20 – 200 million tons of coal a year, make up as much as 1 percent of the global carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels.Link
whatever - yes the storm system is impressive. We had a suspected tornado last night in NOLA.
He doesn't even understand the statistical basis for the measurements. Its just a blog, its not a source. jheez.

He wouldn't know a smoking gun.
Well what about ....

...


....

...

WHAT about you research it and not expect others to do it for you. What about taking some responsibility for your immediate environment.

Why do you guys research every denial site and not hit the journals?
Good morning folks...
I haven't been here in over a month, but with the CC conference under way I thought I'd check in. And glad I did, as Master's blog hit the nail squarely on the head. His words have echoed what I've been saying for years. Corporations are designed (and rightly so) to make money for their shareholders. If a corporation does not do everything within legal limits to increase profits, they would be in violation of the law. Show me the money? Follow the money? Sometimes if it looks, smells, feels, and tastes like a duck...
How much energy is dispersed in an average CAT 1 hurricane over it's lifetime? How much energy was dissipated when Mt St Helens blew her stack? Yes, man does influence the climate but we have nothing to compete with the forces of nature. There is no "Save the planet" the only thing we can hope to save is ourselves. The planet was here long before us and will continue to be here long after we are gone.
Quoting HurricaneNewbie:
How much energy is dispersed in an average CAT 1 hurricane over it's lifetime? How much energy was dissipated when Mt St Helens blew her stack? Yes, man does influence the climate but we have nothing to compete with the forces of nature. There is no "Save the planet" the only thing we can hope to save is ourselves. The planet was here long before us and will continue to be here long after we are gone.


Why do you assume the planet will outlive its inhabitants?
The other night I watched the History Channel program “The First Apocalypse”, it was about the asteroid that hit the Earth 65 million years ago and is suspected of wiping out the dinosaurs. This impact caused a planet-wide conflagration that burned everything. Very interesting, but here is the kicker: The scientists in this program said that because of this firestorm, more CARBON DIOXIDE, CARBON MONOXIDE AND METHANE GAS were put into the atmosphere IN A 4 WEEK PERIOD than 3,000 YEARS OF FOSSIL FUEL BURNING! How does this jibe with the climatologists’ theory that if we keep burning fossil fuels it will cause a runaway, irreversable greenhouse effect? If this massive amount of greenhouse gases emitted in a one- month period 65 million years ago didn’t turn Earth into another Venus, how can a few hundred years of fossil fuel burning possibly have any real impact on climate? Global Warming caused by humans is a SCAM, plain & simple. The Earth may well be getting warmer, but I believe it is just a part of the normal climate cycle.
1112. P451
The year of the gigantic storm systems....

Can't wait till tomorrow(The first 2010 Atlantic Hurricane Season Predictions). Colorado State University might not predict high numbers. I'll say 12 Named Storms, 5 Hurricanes, 3 Major Hurricane.
1114. P451
The overly early predicted arctic intrusion has finally begun. This is an image we were to expect last week. Well, winter is here and apparently means business this year.

1115. P451
One very large system.

Lets look past the smokescreen of falsified weather data. Lets forget about the shills who spout the IPCC/AGW propaganda...we know who he/they are.

Look, instead, at what has happened to people who have been 'helped' in the past.

My cousin was with the Peace Corp for decades, mostly in Afghanistan and recently he helped in Haiti.

As you might know, Haiti is stripped bare of trees. Want to know why? They used the wood to cook their food. Anyway. The powers that be decided that what was needed was paved roads to make it easier for them to travel about the countryside. So, roads were paved.

My cousin told me they were so proud of what they had done. Sadly, when he went back to the same area a few years later, the pavement was gone and only the underlayment remained.

What had happened to the pavement? The people had cut the pavement up and used it, like charcoal, to COOK THEIR FOOD!! Err remember the trees had been cut down long ago?

The point is that we have absolutely no idea what each culture needs in order to continue to exist. Forcing electricity down the throats of people who have never seen it before will mostly likely kill scores of them. Death by electrocution.

How about tribes in Africa? Does forcing technology on people who don't want it the right thing to do? Who died and made us god?

Starvation etc in Africa and elsewhere can be traced to our helping the country and area...only to have corrupt leadership steal the money intended for the people and do absolutely nothing for their population.

AGW is a hoax that, once the solutions they will force on unsuspecting countries are begun, will only line the pockets of the corrupt leadership and do little to reduce anything except the living conditions even further for the recipients.

It is time to look at their solutions and see those solutions for what they are.

Destructive self-serving, pocket lining fraud is being perpetrated upon the entire globe. A socialist/communist (From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.) ruse whose intent is not in helping anyone but themselves.


Quoting swamper60:
Global Warming caused by humans is a SCAM, plain & simple. The Earth may well be getting warmer, but I believe it is just a part of the normal climate cycle.


Yet 90% of scientists - whom I reckon are more qualified than you or I (and just about anyone else on this blog) - disagree. Maybe they are wrong - it wouldn't be the first time, but I believe that scientists are dedicated to finding the truth, no matter where it leads, because THAT is what science is all about.
PS - The History Channel is hardly a reliable source.
The year of the gigantic storm systems....




Ain't it cool? :)
wow. impressive 451. means business with a vengeance.
we are consuming and polluting at an unsustainable rate.
what's the debate?
how long before we run out of stuff and trash the planet?
Quoting mikatnight:


Yet 90% of scientists - whom I reckon are more qualified than you or I (and just about anyone else on this blog) - disagree. Maybe they are wrong - it wouldn't be the first time, but I believe that scientists are dedicated to finding the truth, no matter where it leads, because THAT is what science is all about.
PS - The History Channel is hardly a reliable source.


You are right, they are much more qualified than you or I, but you can't ignore the fact that some of these scientists manipulated/suppressed/deleted data that was contradicted their theory. All creditability is lost.

By the way, it was a scientist on the program, not the History Channel, that made the statement...
Quoting mikatnight:


Why do you assume the planet will outlive its inhabitants?

Years ago scientists attempted to create a equation that could be used to predict what would happen if any particular specie of animal or plant life were to disappear.

The more they worked on the equation/formula the more they became aware that when you remove an animal or plant, there is some other form of life that will be disturbed and possibly disappear as a result.

The one most disturbing thing they discovered was that there was only one life form that, when removed from the formula, made the success of other life forms more likely.

Care to guess what that life form was?

MAN..!!

Long after we have killed ourselves off, no matter the method used, the planet will recover. It might not be in a form we would recognize; but, survive and thrive it will. According to the US Bureau of Statistics, global population will exceed 18 billion by 2070...how long before it doubles. We are headed for a brick wall and carbon credits are not the solution.

Lest you forget, dinosaurs were once the dominant species and they were driven to extinction. For them, the world ended, for the field mouse it had only just begun.

Quoting calusakat:

Years ago scientists attempted to create a equation that could be used to predict what would happen if any particular specie of animal or plant life were to disappear.

The more they worked on the equation/formula the more they became aware that when you remove an animal or plant, there is some other form of life that will be disturbed and possibly disappear as a result.

The one most disturbing thing they discovered was that there was only one life form that, when removed from the formula, made the success of other life forms more likely.

Care to guess what that life form was?

MAN..!!

Long after we have killed ourselves off, no matter the method used, the planet will recover. It might not be in a form we would recognize; but, survive and thrive it will. According to the US Bureau of Statistics, global population will exceed 18 billion by 2070...how long before it doubles. We are headed for a brick wall and carbon credits are not the solution.

Lest you forget, dinosaurs were once the dominant species and they were driven to extinction. For them, the world ended, for the field mouse it had only just begun.



I believe you are refering to Carl Sagan and the "Drake Equation":
The Drake equation is closely related to the Fermi paradox in that Drake suggested that a large number of extraterrestrial civilizations would form, but that the lack of evidence of such civilizations (the Fermi paradox) suggests that technological civilizations tend to destroy themselves rather quickly. This theory often stimulates an interest in identifying and publicizing ways in which humanity could destroy itself, and then counters with hopes of avoiding such destruction and eventually becoming a space-faring species. A similar argument is The Great Filter,[1] which notes that since there are no observed extraterrestrial civilizations, despite the vast number of stars, then some step in the process must be acting as a filter to reduce the final value. According to this view, either it is very hard for intelligent life to arise, or the lifetime of such civilizations must be relatively short.

I tend to be more optimistic.
Quoting mikatnight:


I believe you are refering to Carl Sagan and the "Drake Equation":
The Drake equation is closely related to the Fermi paradox in that Drake suggested that a large number of extraterrestrial civilizations would form, but that the lack of evidence of such civilizations (the Fermi paradox) suggests that technological civilizations tend to destroy themselves rather quickly. This theory often stimulates an interest in identifying and publicizing ways in which humanity could destroy itself, and then counters with hopes of avoiding such destruction and eventually becoming a space-faring species. A similar argument is The Great Filter,[1] which notes that since there are no observed extraterrestrial civilizations, despite the vast number of stars, then some step in the process must be acting as a filter to reduce the final value. According to this view, either it is very hard for intelligent life to arise, or the lifetime of such civilizations must be relatively short.

Actually, no. I was referring to something that occurred several years earlier.

I believe that the scientists were out in California and that they had isolated a tract of land and began selectively removing various forms of life from the area and watching for what happened. Carl Sagan was a pup when this occurred.

BTW....was that discussed in Cosmos or was it in another publication. He was way ahead of his time.

Quoting Chicklit:
we are consuming and polluting at an unsustainable rate.
what's the debate?
how long before we run out of stuff and trash the planet?


Hi Chicklit, long time no see.
What? We're going to run out of stuff!!!???
I guess there's no point going on after all...
I see the AGW debate is still raging on this morning. Once again, I will say, why don't we just do what we can to conserve energy, and try to pollute less. The climate is in it's natural warming process, and we can't change that. We can change what we do to our air, water, and resources.
Mornin' all! I'm not sure if anyone has discussed this here yet but "The Economics Of 350" is a REALLY interesting read. Take a look:
The Economics of 350

Tell me what you think.
Quoting mikatnight:


Why do you assume the planet will outlive its inhabitants?


Looking through the history of the earth you can find hundreds of species that are extinct. Only the species that adapt to the changing environment survive. I see humans as a species that is able to adapt but I also find civilizations that have dissapeared through the ages. To think that this life as we know it is going to last forever is ridiculus. Whether it be plague or disaster or war this way of life will come to an end. For the atheists this is a natural thing. For the religeous god will end this way of life.
#1124 -
Cosmos, talk shows, I've heard it described in various forums.

Frank Drake formulated his equation in 1960 in preparation for the Green Bank meeting. This meeting, held at Green Bank, West Virginia, established SETI as a scientific discipline. The meeting's participants became known as the "Order of the Dolphin," and included astronomers, physicists, biologists, social scientists, and industry leaders who came together to discuss the possibility of detecting intelligent life among the stars.
looks like Ms. Cleo is forecast to get nasty!




oh, i'm sorry...this is no place for off-topic tropical weather posts! LOL
"I can personally vouch for their integrity and commitment to pursue the scientific truth, no matter what that truth turns out to be. These are honest, incredibly hard-working public servants who are enduring a punishing assault on their integrity..." - hmmmm. So dumping data, trying to supress those scientists and journals who disagree, and coming up with "tricks" to prove their theory is now called "honest" and the makings of "integrity". It makes me think I'm living in some alternative universe, or better yet, its like the part from 1984 where what is right is wrong and what is wrong is right. Dr. Masters, I would respect your position on Global Warming a lot more if you would be honest about the emails. I'm not really sure man does or does not play a significant role (partly because we don't know what data has been faked or obscured), but when you defend the indefensible, it makes you look like...you're one of them. As for following the money? Let's ask Al Gore about that.
Quoting Canesinlowplaces:
it makes you look like...you're one of them


those words in your post made me think of this...

Quoting HurricaneNewbie:


Looking through the history of the earth you can find hundreds of species that are extinct. Only the species that adapt to the changing environment survive. I see humans as a species that is able to adapt but I also find civilizations that have dissapeared through the ages. To think that this life as we know it is going to last forever is ridiculus. Whether it be plague or disaster or war this way of life will come to an end. For the atheists this is a natural thing. For the religeous god will end this way of life.


How incredibly pessimistic! You need to read more about the possibilities. Check out, “The Next Ten Thousand Years”, or Heinlein’s, “Time Enough for Love”. You fail to address the possibility of achieving colonization off-planet. If we ever reach that point, the human race will be unstoppable. We breed like rabbits.
Quoting swamper60:


You are right, they are much more qualified than you or I, but you can't ignore the fact that some of these scientists manipulated/suppressed/deleted data that was contradicted their theory. All creditability is lost.

By the way, it was a scientist on the program, not the History Channel, that made the statement...


Prove it. If it is a "fact" then that should be easy.

That is so ignorant knowing the Academic consequences of dishonesty or even being wrong.

- Lets look at pay scales to see what these greed motivated atmospheric scientists make:

Median annual earnings of atmospheric scientists in May 2006 were $77,150. The middle 50 percent earned between $55,530 and $96,490. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $39,090, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $119,700.


If they are employed. Employment is DISMAL in the field. For a specialized and difficult degree.

You have no Idea what you are talking about.
Pearl (#1132), what am I looking at?
For those that was around last December i put together a mix of Christmas and Love song mix together to play on your computer..it now has 46 in the play Mix. If you have a favorite not there let me know.

Christmas and Love Song Mix from Tim
Quoting CaneWarning:
I see the AGW debate is still raging on this morning. Once again, I will say, why don't we just do what we can to conserve energy, and try to pollute less. The climate is in it's natural warming process, and we can't change that. We can change what we do to our air, water, and resources.


Really when natural indicators would suggest a cooling.

You need to back that up. If you believe it enough to say it as fact you need to say why.
Quoting JFLORIDA:


Prove it. If it is a "fact" then that should be easy.

That is so ignorant knowing the Academic consequences of dishonesty or even being wrong.

- Lets look at pay scales to see what these greed motivated atmospheric scientists make:

Median annual earnings of atmospheric scientists in May 2006 were $77,150. The middle 50 percent earned between $55,530 and $96,490. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $39,090, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $119,700.


If they are employed. Employment is DISMAL in the field. For a specialized and difficult degree.

You have no Idea what you are talking about.


Another makes the ignore list.
Quoting HurricaneNewbie:


Looking through the history of the earth you can find hundreds of species that are extinct. Only the species that adapt to the changing environment survive. I see humans as a species that is able to adapt but I also find civilizations that have dissapeared through the ages. To think that this life as we know it is going to last forever is ridiculus. Whether it be plague or disaster or war this way of life will come to an end. For the atheists this is a natural thing. For the religeous god will end this way of life.


the beginning is the end
the end is the beginning
1141. Ossqss
Hummm, seems to be some growing dissent among the ranks.


Physicists Stick to Warming Claim Post-ClimateGate
Linky no-worky Tampa...Celine Dion does one - can't remember which - awesome though...
Quoting CaneWarning:


Another makes the ignore list.


GOOD. I do not make unsubstantiated statements based on something I pretend to be an expert in.

#1137 - ahhh, the pods.

Do you think the pods were neocons?
If you decide to malign someone it needs to be for a good reason. Not innuendo.

If you present something you as fact you should be able to reference it or at least explain it.

Thats just honesty.
Quoting JFLORIDA:


GOOD. I do not make unsubstantiated statements based on something I pretend to be an expert in.



I have never claimed or pretended to be an expert. You are full of it. Ok, now POOF.
off-topic, but does anyone know of a website where one can find their local rainfall totals vs. average numbers? i often hear the rainfall totals compared to the historical average (usually in times of drought but not in wet times), but it's really hard to find those numbers on the local NWS website...
1144. LMAO...i think they were elves or dwarves! hehehe
My we sure do reek of self-importance don’t we? Anyone ever stop to consider how much better our time would be spent other than postulating our opinions on this pretentious blog? Don’t answer, it’s a rhetorical question…
1149. touche', my friend. you said what i was thinking! LOL
Ok, Mike's quote of the day (and then I'm off to practice what I preach):

The human race has no "finish line" (except in Finland).
Quoting Ossqss:
Hummm, seems to be some growing dissent among the ranks.


Physicists Stick to Warming Claim Post-ClimateGate


So Looking at the dissenting physicists we should see some unbiased concern - top of the list:

Capitalism Magazine > Science > Climate

Global Warming and Climate Change in Perspective: Truths and Myths About Carbon Dioxide, Scientific Consensus, and Climate Models
by William Happer (April 20, 2009)

I believe that the increase of CO2 is not a cause for alarm and will be good for mankind. I predict that future historians will look back on this period much as we now view the period just before the passage of the 18th Amendment to the US Constitution to prohibit "the manufacturing, sale or transportation of intoxicating liquors."

By looking at ice cores from the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, one can estimate past temperatures and atmospheric concentrations of CO2. Al Gore likes to display graphs of temperature and CO2 concentrations over the past million years or so, showing that when CO2 rises, the temperature also rises. Doesn't this prove that the temperature is driven by CO2? Absolutely not! If you look carefully at these records, you find that first the temperature goes up, and then the CO2 concentration of the atmosphere goes up.


Thats amateur hour. Hes a physicist he should attempt a better rebuttal than a nontechnical chat based on unscientific innuendo. Esp when that research (really basic climatology) is even available to me.

But Im sure he is a great physicist.
What does "...let's ask Al Gore about that..." mean?
1149. That's why I put him on iggy.
Quoting pearlandaggie:
off-topic, but does anyone know of a website where one can find their local rainfall totals vs. average numbers? i often hear the rainfall totals compared to the historical average (usually in times of drought but not in wet times), but it's really hard to find those numbers on the local NWS website...


This is an interesting site:
Link
This is what was said.

The climate is in it's natural warming process, and we can't change that.

That is what I wanted an explanation of. I am a bad person for even asking.

Ignored by someone that doesn't explain anything is probably a gift. I will continue however to critique his/her statements.
Quoting CaneWarning:
1149. That's why I put him on iggy.


I am not trying to take sides here but I thought JFlorida's reply to you was actually well researched proof of the median salaries of the scientists who are being accused of being "greedy" or in it for the money. Is there something else to it?
1158. P451
Quoting pearlandaggie:
off-topic, but does anyone know of a website where one can find their local rainfall totals vs. average numbers? i often hear the rainfall totals compared to the historical average (usually in times of drought but not in wet times), but it's really hard to find those numbers on the local NWS website...


Link
1155. cool...thanks!

by the way, i found some similar to what i was looking for on my local weather page...finally! LOL
Gore owns a TV network, a venture capital firm, a bunch of Google stock...and has made a movie and writtren books....all private, free market pursuits...
1161. Ossqss
Anyone evaluated this item? The summary analysis that is :)

Link
1158. thanks!
JB this morning.

Tuesday 7:30 a.m.
Earth temp spike going full blast!

The El Nino is forcing a spike in the Earth's temps, and we had a reading of .5C above normal for November, up from .28 in October. However, keep in mind... this was expected and still shows overall a leveling off from peaks in the previous El Ninos.

This is trouble for both sides of the AGW argument. First of all, it's not trouble for me, since posts a few months ago documented we would spike, but certainly any agenda-driven person that thinks the Earth is warming can say, see I told you.

To which I reply, not so fast my friend, because as soon as this collapses so will the temp and the coming La Nina response within the next three years may take us to a running three-year mean near normal... and that is just the start of it. Given what should happen in the longer term, with reversing AMO and the sun asleep... each peak should be lower and a classic one step forward, two steps back should evolve this next decade, so I am putting my money where my mouth is, making the forecast here for you, not just throwing stones at people who can't see anything but warm.

In any case, up it goes, a very, very warm November and so in this football game of climate, people screaming warm have every right to cheer the warmth.

We shall see whose game plan wins.

Not that it matters. Since we now have the government (EPA) ruling by decree, it really doesn't. Too bad all this is going on, it ruins my enjoyment of the weather.

Ciao for now. ****


TUESDAY 7 a.m.:

FROM THE EURO COLUMN

In case you don't look up there, I wanted you to see what I am saying to my two or three euro readers.


U.S. MODEL ENGULFING EUROPE IN SNOW NEXT 15 DAYS.

I have been telling people in the States now for a couple of weeks that a "December to remember" is on the way, and over here we have the best setup for a widespread white Christmas in many a year. Well, today I will try, on our free site at accuweather.com, to cut a video showing what is the most widespread snowcover I have ever seen a model forecast as fully all of Europe is forecasted to be covered in snow by the 23rd!

Now this is an extreme event, something out of the Victorian era, and we should take it with a grain of salt. In fact, it's a bit early for my liking, as I felt it would be during the middle and late parts of winter when we would see this, hence the big debate in the fall with Hadley over the warm winter that we didn't see for Europe, but up until recently, they were. In fact, the winter of 2002-2003 looks better to me as a base forecast, but that is just the base. It doesn't mean it can't be a bit colder. Here in the States, it is colder earlier also than that winter which had a rather mild December. This December will be no such thing.

In any case, the free site hit I will do as my vblog today will give a double shot of arctic love to my friends across the pond... though in a couple of weeks that shoreline may have a lot of snow on it.

Again, this is the kind of thing I expected to see this winter... winter "backing in" from the northeast, but I am a bit skeptical because it is early. Then again, if the theories on sunspot cycles are right, and by 2030 we are returning to the time of Dickens and Victoria, might as well start now. The sooner the better with the agenda-driven people meeting to decide the fate of the planet.

Pass the Caviar please.

Ciao for now.
Quoting presslord:
Gore owns a TV network, a venture capital firm, a bunch of Google stock...and has made a movie and writtren books....all private, free market pursuits...


Exactly...so what's the problem with Al Gore? I don't get the raging obsession that people have with him. I think it all boils down to politics, which is sad. It's fine if you don't like his politics but I don't see why the big outrage about his environmental work. The man is trying to champion a very worthy cause. He has been for over 30 years now. The message I get from Al Gore is he's trying to make the world a better place to live and preserve it for future generations. I think that's what we all should be striving for isn't it?
Quoting hurricanejunky:


Exactly...so what's the problem with Al Gore? I don't get the raging obsession that people have with him. I think it all boils down to politics, which is sad. It's fine if you don't like his politics but I don't see why the big outrage about his environmental work. The man is trying to champion a very worth cause. He has been for over 30 years now. The message I get from Al Gore is he's trying to make the world a better place to live and preserve it for future generations. I think that's what we all should be striving for isn't it?


it seems that the free marketplace of goods, services and ideas is only a good thing if it's goods, services, and ideas with which the flat Earthers agree...
Quoting hurricanejunky:


I am not trying to take sides here but I thought JFlorida's reply to you was actually well researched proof of the median salaries of the scientists who are being accused of being "greedy" or in it for the money. Is there something else to it?


It wasn't a response to me. I'm just tired of him criticizing everyone on here, including me. Also, the post he was responding to had nothing to do with the salaries. Judging from the several PM's I've gotten, I'm not the only person who's put him on ignore.
look...I'm no Gore fan...I think he's whiny, petulant and unctious, as a matter of fact...but he's entitled to express his view...and get paid for it if he can...and he's entitled to profit from investing his capital if he's right....
furthermoire...Gore, et al, advocating for legislation favorable to their investments is no different from any other industry doing the same thing...as a matter of fact, as Dr. Masters notes repeatedly, corporate officers BETTER do that...or we will find ourselves in a world of crap....
Quoting presslord:
look...I'm no Gore fan...I think he's whiny, petulant and unctious, as a matter of fact... but he's entitled to express his view...and get paid for it if he can...and he's entitled to profit from investing his capital if he's right....


That hits the nail on the head. At least part of the comment.
A weather update from the great white north.
At 52N, 107W, current El Nino conditions are minus 33 C (minus 41 C with wind chill). We are 31 F below averages for this time of year. Burr!
1171. hophead
At the end of the day, what is really at stake here, what are the bigger hit at home issues. As I see it, whether man-influenced or a natural cycles, lets agree that there are periods of warming AND cooling. The earth is a system in constant flux, ice melts, oceans adsorb CO2, earth warms -

The GW crowd thinks the earth can't recover, I'm on the fence with thate.

Going back to my first point - what happens when the earth warms. Well, having lived in AK, I've seen the effects. Ice melts, tundra gets destroyed. OK, so what! Well, a previous poster indicated that man has always had the best ability to adapt. I think this is where I disagree. We as a species can adapt but as an economy are in trouble.

If farming areas shift northword to areas that are not developed for farming, where will we get food? I realize this is exaggeration but stay with me a sec. Iowa grows lots of corn, if upper Minnesota becomes more suited to corn production can they "adapt" and convert to a corn belt? If oceans rise, states and locals cannot adapt to the financial impact of coastal damamge when seawalls are under water and then what happens when all this protection infrastructure is underwater and the CAT1+ rolls through.

We, as Americans, love to debate to stall from doing anything but continuing to debate some more. At the end, I think we are ignoring the end results and that is where our efforts for national sustainabiltiy should be focused.

If you study the AK Native Settlement Act, a nomadic society was forced to stay put which eventually degraded their culture to that of public welfare. Our own gov't structure is going to drive us into this same dilema as result of inabiltiy to economically adapt to CC (natural or otherwise)

Long winded...I'm out.
The December 9-10TH, 2009 Storm will be one that is remembered!!



STORM SUMMARY NUMBER 04 FOR ROCKIES AND PLAINS WINTER STORM
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
900 AM CST TUE DEC 08 2009

...A STRONG AND QUICK-MOVING LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM IS EXPECTED TO
BRING WIDESPREAD SIGNIFICANT WEATHER ACROSS THE EASTERN TWO-THIRDS
OF THE COUNTRY THROUGH EARLY THURSDAY...

BLIZZARD WARNINGS ARE IN EFFECT FOR HIGHER ELEVATIONS OF THE FOUR
CORNERS REGION...AS WELL AS PARTS OF SOUTHERN MINNESOTA AND
NORTHEASTERN IOWA.

WINTER STORM WARNINGS AND WINTER WEATHER ADVISORIES COVER AN
EXTENSIVE AREA FROM THE CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN ROCKIES NORTHEASTWARD
INTO THE GREAT LAKES. IN ADDITION...WINTER STORM WATCHES AND
WINTER WEATHER ADVISORIES ARE IN EFFECT FROM THE CENTRAL
APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS NORTHWARD INTO PARTS OF NEW ENGLAND.

HIGH WIND WARNINGS ARE IN EFFECT FOR EASTERN NEW MEXICO AND FAR
WESTERN TEXAS. HIGH WIND WATCHES ARE IN EFFECT FROM PARTS OF THE
OHIO RIVER VALLEY INTO WESTERN NEW YORK.

FOR A DETAILED GRAPHICAL DEPICTION OF THE LATEST
WATCHES...WARNINGS AND ADVISORIES...PLEASE SEE WWW.WEATHER.GOV

AT 800 AM CST...A 980 MB...28.94 INCH...LOW PRESSURE CENTER WAS
MOVING EASTWARD ACROSS CENTRAL COLORADO. NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE
DOPPLER RADARS AND SURFACE OBSERVATIONS INDICATED WIDESPREAD
PRECIPITATION FROM THE SOUTHEASTERN U.S. NORTHWARD INTO THE GREAT
LAKES...AS WELL AS FROM EASTERN TEXAS NORTHWARD INTO THE NORTHERN
PLAINS. PRECIPITATION WAS IN THE FORM OF LIGHT TO MODERATE SNOW IN
THE MIDWEST AND THE GREAT LAKES...AS WELL AS FROM KANSAS
NORTHWARD. LOCALLY HEAVY SNOW WAS STILL LINGERING IN THE HIGHER
ELEVATIONS OF COLORADO AND NEW MEXICO WHERE SOME OF THE SNOW HAD
BEGUN TO TAPER OFF FOLLOWING THE PASSAGE OF A COLD FRONT.


...SELECTED STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL IN INCHES FROM 700 PM CST SUN DEC
06 THROUGH 900 AM CST TUE DEC 08...

...ARIZONA...
FLAGSTAFF 11.6
WILLIAMS 8.0
BELLEMONT 7.2
GRAND CANYON ARPT 3.0

...COLORADO...
DELTA 10.2

...UTAH...
VERDURE 8 WNW 25.0

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL RAINFALL IN INCHES FROM 700 PM CST SUN DEC
06 THROUGH 900 AM CST TUE DEC 08...

...ARIZONA...
PRESCOTT/ERNEST A LOVE FIELD AP 1.37
GRAND CANYON NATIONAL PARK 1.19

...LOUISIANA...
NEW IBERIA/ACADIANA 6.71
BATON ROUGE/RYAN MUNI ARPT 4.79
NEW ORLEANS/MOISANT 3.73
SLIDELL 3.47
LAFAYETTE RGNL ARPT 2.29
LAKE CHARLES MUNI ARPT 1.76

...MISSISSIPPI...
HATTIESBURG/LAUREL 1.67
NATCHEZ/HARDY 1.46
GULFPORT-BILOXI 1.27
HATTIESBURG/CHAIN MUNI ARPT 1.21
KEESLER AFB/BILOXI 1.12

...TEXAS...
GALVESTON/SCHOLES 1.42
BEAUMONT/PORT ARTHUR 1.04

...SELECTED PEAK WIND GUSTS IN MILES PER HOUR EARLIER IN THE
EVENT...

...NEW MEXICO...
ORGAN 91

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL IN INCHES WHERE THE EVENT HAS
ENDED...

...CALIFORNIA...
ALPINE MEADOWS 42.0
KIRKWOOD 40.0
CISCO 5 ENE 35.0
KINGVALE 1.3 WSW 29.0
HOMEWOOD 2 SE 27.0
PROSSER CREEK RESERVOIR 24.0
FAIR PLAY 2.8 ESE 17.0
PLACERVILLE 2.9 WNW 13.0
SOUTH LAKE TAHOE 13.0
VOLCANO 5.4 NE 12.5
GRASS VALLEY 5.5 ESE 11.5
COLFAX 3.1 SW 11.0
ALTA SIERRA 0.4 WSW 10.0
SUSANVILLE 3.2 SSW 8.8
LAKE OF THE PINES 8.0
NEVADA CITY 5.4 W 5.2
FOLSOM 3.4 ESE 0.5
CARMICHAEL 1.4 W 0.3
SACRAMENTO 8.0 NE 0.1

...NEVADA...
HEAVENLY VALLEY 24.0
MT ROSE SKI AREA 23.0
CARSON CITY 1.3 NW 18.0
DAYTON 1.7 SW 13.0
RENO 7.1 N 12.0
MINDEN 4.2 WSW 10.5
DAYTON 3.5 NNE 10.0
INDIAN HILLS 0.7 N 10.0
SUN VALLEY 0.9 N 8.5
SPARKS 7.5 N 6.5
FALLON 0.8 WSW 6.3
FERNLEY 1.8 WNW 6.0

...SELECTED STORM TOTAL RAINFALL IN INCHES WHERE THE EVENT HAS
ENDED...

...CALIFORNIA...
LYTLE CREEK RAWS 2.77
HENSHAW DAM 2.36
JULIAN 2.36
POTRERO 2.27
SANTA YSABEL 2.17
LAKE CUYAMACA 2.09
PATERA RANCH 2.08
SANTA BARBARA MUNI ARPT 1.93
SAN DIEGO/BROWN FIELD 1.79


THE STORM SYSTEM IS FORECAST TO REMAIN POTENT AS IT MOVES INTO THE
CENTRAL PLAINS LATER TODAY. SNOWFALL AMOUNTS WILL RANGE FROM 1 TO
3 FEET ACROSS THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS OF COLORADO OVERNIGHT AND INTO
TUESDAY. ADDITIONAL RAINFALL OF UP TO ONE HALF INCH IS FORECAST IN
THE LOWER ELEVATIONS OF EASTERN ARIZONA AND SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO
WITH ISOLATED HIGHER AMOUNTS. THE PRECIPITATION WILL EXPAND INTO
THE PLAINS THROUGHOUT THE DAY TODAY WITH AN INCREASING CHANCE OF
HEAVIER RAIN AND THUNDERSTORMS IN THE LOWER MISSISSIPPI VALLEY AND
WIND BLOWN SNOW ACROSS THE UPPER MIDWEST.

THE NEXT STORM SUMMARY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL
PREDICTION CENTER AT 300 PM CST. PLEASE REFER TO YOUR LOCAL
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THIS
EVENT.

KONG
Quoting billsfaninsofla:


That hits the nail on the head.


if you're going to quote me...please have the integrity to nuse the whole quote...
Good morning, folks, just looking over some recent posts,

Mikatnight
, you're an upbeat breath of fresh air this morning, glad you're here. I read "Time Enough for Love"! And I've posted a quote from Heinlein here before, "Courtesy is the grease of the wheels of society." But I think I'm on "ignore"! Lot of hot air in here, isn't there? I think it's adding to climate change.

PearlandAggie
, always appreciate your gentle chiding and humor.
Chicklit, kudos on your gold stars in your classwork (read your entry last night). You're one of the blog Renaissance women, lovely and intelligent!
Quoting CaneWarning:


It wasn't a response to me. I'm just tired of him criticizing everyone on here, including me. Also, the post he was responding to had nothing to do with the salaries. Judging from the several PM's I've gotten, I'm not the only person who's put him on ignore.


I understand. Too bad you guys can't get along. Get some surge cola and sing Kumbaya like Tdude and I did. LOL!
Press, the point is there is not anything necessarily legally wrong with what Al is doing (that I know of anyway). The point is these AGW people always say "follow the money". Well, I would say don't be naive. There's plenty who will profit, either through money or power, from the Cap and Trade type systems being proposed. It's just a matter of whose coffers are going to get filled up. Al owns interest in some of the carbon offset firms not to mention his book royalties. Again, not necessarily wrong, but if you can't see the underlying motive, well...I don't know what I can do for you. Like I say, I can see evidence to support both sides, but both sides have their motives and each is as greedy as the other - just a case of human nature that we must do our best to keep from getting out of hand.
Quoting presslord:


if you're going to quote me...please have the integrity to nuse the whole quote...



There ya go Presslord, I modified it. So sorry if you were insulted.
Quoting hurricanejunky:


I understand. Too bad you guys can't get along. Get some surge cola and sing Kumbaya like Tdude and I did. LOL!


I'm not too worried about it. We can't all get along. I come to the blog to read and learn from others, not be criticized for posting my opinion. Instead of arguing, I just figured I'd end it. :) By the way, I used to LOVE Surge cola. I wish they still sold it. I think its awful for your body tough.
Thanks!!!
Quoting JFLORIDA:


Really when natural indicators would suggest a cooling.

You need to back that up. If you believe it enough to say it as fact you need to say why.

Nope. I destroyed that yesterday with a peer-reviewed study, referenced and all. You don't think it an honest study, IYHO, because I posted it and without reading it. Good thing you didn't make any unsubstantiated statements or pretend to be an expert. And I see a lot of banter from yourself about going to journals and/or research. LOL!
Enough of the both-sides-of-your-mouth. Maybe try taking the blinders off if you want to actually discuss anything. Or if you think climate science has it all figured out then you should call for canceling all climate research funding and quit talking to all of us that think the earth is flat and sun circles our planet, again, IYHO.

Anyone else is capable of admitting that we do have some less than perfect measurements and that climate models have the capacity to be imperfect, as well. (Yes, I know you are about to say just this to save face...too late.)

Careful, or you'll become MichaelSTL reincarnate.

Could someone wu-mail us some dry? A good inversion, maybe? Tired of the rain.



And not done yet on the northshore...so far just street flooding to my knowledge.

Back L8R.
Quoting mikatnight:
Linky no-worky Tampa...Celine Dion does one - can't remember which - awesome though...
Quoting TampaSpin:
For those that was around last December i put together a mix of Christmas and Love song mix together to play on your computer..it now has 46 in the play Mix. If you have a favorite not there let me know.

Christmas and Love Song Mix from Tim


Christmas and Love Song Mix from Tim

I could not find anything wrong with the link....don't know!
Is it back to being civilized in here or should i come back in the morning?
hmmm...Has anyone noted that Al Gore was actually gracious and noble, considering that he had an election stolen from him (IMO)? It could have gone VERY badly for the country...well, it kinda' did (GW...say, the initials are the same as Global Warming -- yeah, I'm slow sometimes).

A lot of people would have been a LOT worse than merely whiny and petulant. He could have gone postal!

Anyway, he's gone on to bring attention to some life and death issues (not just of us, but the planet), whether you agree with him or like him or not -- which of course is your right!

And the movie was gorgeous. If you hate what Gore was saying, just turn down the sound and look at the fantastic film work.
Quoting atmoaggie:

Nope. I destroyed that yesterday with a peer-reviewed study, referenced and all. You don't think it an honest study, IYHO, because I posted it and without reading it. Good thing you didn't make any unsubstantiated statements or pretend to be an expert. And I see a lot of banter from yourself about going to journals and/or research. LOL!
Enough of the both-sides-of-your-mouth. Maybe try taking the blinders off if you want to actually discuss anything. Or if you think climate science has it all figured out then you should call for canceling all climate research funding and quit talking to all of us that think the earth is flat and sun circles our planet, again, IYHO.

Anyone else is capable of admitting that we do have some less than perfect measurements and that climate models have the capacity to be imperfect, as well. (Yes, I know you are about to say just this to save face...too late.)

Careful, or you'll become MichaelSTL reincarnate.

Could someone wu-mail us some dry? A good inversion, maybe? Tired of the rain.



And not done yet on the northshore...so far just street flooding to my knowledge.

Back L8R.


Your study removed temp sources that showed warming then stated it found no warming.

Please be honest. It also did not go though a full peer review process in the capacity you were using.

You need to reflect on the things you have said.
1185. NEwxguy
this storm is going to leave its mark on most of the US in one way or another,it's going to be one heck of a storm,it already left quite a mark on northern Arizona.
Quoting hophead:

The GW crowd thinks the earth can't recover, I'm on the fence with that.



I think most everyone thinks the Earth CAN recover, it's just a matter of doing some things to bring C02 levels back down to a safe threshold. The economics of 350 report I referenced earlier talks about recovery and the economic costs and benefits of it. Of course, dumping billions of metric tons of C02 into the atmosphere each year has no bearing on anything though.
Quoting JFLORIDA:


Your study removed temp sources that showed warming then stated it found no warming.

Please be honest. It also did not go though a full peer review process in the capacity you were using.

You need to reflect on the things you have said.

The study removed tree rings, and only tree rings, for all of the reasons we have rather thoroughly discussed here, and in the paper. Reasons we all agree on.
Quoting atmoaggie:

Nope. I destroyed that yesterday with a peer-reviewed study, referenced and all. You don't think it an honest study, IYHO, because I posted it and without reading it. Good thing you didn't make any unsubstantiated statements or pretend to be an expert. And I see a lot of banter from yourself about going to journals and/or research. LOL!
Enough of the both-sides-of-your-mouth. Maybe try taking the blinders off if you want to actually discuss anything. Or if you think climate science has it all figured out then you should call for canceling all climate research funding and quit talking to all of us that think the earth is flat and sun circles our planet, again, IYHO.

Anyone else is capable of admitting that we do have some less than perfect measurements and that climate models have the capacity to be imperfect, as well. (Yes, I know you are about to say just this to save face...too late.)

Careful, or you'll become MichaelSTL reincarnate.

Could someone wu-mail us some dry? A good inversion, maybe? Tired of the rain.



And not done yet on the northshore...so far just street flooding to my knowledge.

Back L8R.


Yeah, this is why I choose not to engage with this individual. Stay dry today atmo!
Quoting AussieStorm:
Is it back to being civilized in here or should i come back in the morning?

It is back to being civilized starting now. Sorry I called him on that out loud, could have just iggyed him...

I will participate in the droll no more.
Quoting AussieStorm:
Is it back to being civilized in here or should i come back in the morning?

Top o' the morning to you, Aussie.

Please stay. Few good role models in here sometimes.

Quoting AussieStorm:
Is it back to being civilized in here or should i come back in the morning?

Still not civil enough for me in here. i'm going to bed. goodnight ya'll.
Play nice
Will be back in about 7 hrs or how ever long my back lets me sleep... Btw.. has anyone heard from Floodman?
Also you implied that proxy data involved a few temperature measurements and some tree rings.

That is total falsification.

Most of you on the denial side are committing the abuses you claim to have found "proof" of in the emails.

You should try to be honest.
Quoting CaneWarning:


Yeah, this is why I choose not to engage with this individual. Stay dry today atmo!


No you wouldn't explain a very flat and "factual" statement you presented. We were all here. It wasn't that long ago.
Quoting AussieStorm:

Still not civil enough for me in here. i'm going to bed. goodnight ya'll.
Play nice


I am sorry you are leaving. But I feel a little more honesty here is needed. I think in the long run it will be beneficial.
1156. JFLORIDA 2:40 PM GMT on December 08, 2009
This is what was said.

The climate is in it's natural warming process, and we can't change that.


You volunteered that.
Quoting JFLORIDA:


I am sorry you are leaving. But I feel a little more honesty here is needed.,


dude, crawl back under the rock where you came from. you are so DARN Rude...
something to stoke the fires of AGW/CC

Last decade warmest on record

The first decade of the 21st century is set to be the warmest on record, the head of the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) said at UN climate talks.

"The decade 2000-2009 is very likely to be the warmest on record, warmer than the 1990s, which were in turn warmer than the 1980s," WMO secretary general Michel Jarraud said.

Mr Jarraud also said that the year 2009 would probably rank as the fifth warmest since 1850, the beginning of accurate instrumental climate records.

The year 2009 is expected to be Australia's third hottest year on record.

The December 7-18 climate summit in Copenhagen has brought together 193 countries to hammer out a climate deal to curb global warming and help poor countries cope with its consequences.

"We are in a warming trend, we have no doubt about that, but I would not make predictions for next year," he said when asked whether temperatures would continue to rise in the near term.

He said unexpected events such as a major volcano spewing tonnes of heat-filtering debris could lower temperatures.

Climate extremes, including devastating floods, severe droughts, snowstorms, heatwaves and cold snaps, were registered in many parts of the world, the UN weather organisation found.

Above-normal temperatures were recorded in all continents except North America, which experiences conditions slightly cooler than the 1961-1990 benchmark average.

Otherwise, there were marked regional variations, the WMO reported.

Extreme warm events were more frequent and intense in the southern part of Australia, southern Asia and South America.

The Arctic sea ice extent during the melt season was the third lowest ever, after the record year of 2007 and the runner-up year 2008.

China will have had the third-warmest year since 1951, and for some regions 2009 was the warmest ever.

The country suffered its worst drought in five decades, with water levels in parts of the Gan and Xiangjiang Rivers the lowest in 50 years.

In India, less-than-average rainfall during the monsoon season caused severe droughts in 40 per cent of districts, the WHO reported.

Most of these trends are consistent with long-term forecasts by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which predicts that average global temperatures will rise by up to 6.4 degrees Celsius unless greenhouse gas emissions are drastically reduced.

The WMO's global temperature analysis is based on three data sets, one of them coming from the Climate Research Unit of University of East Anglia in Britain.

East Anglia's climate science has been the focus of intense scrutiny in recent weeks after email exchanges among its scientists, stolen and posted on the internet, led to allegations that data was manipulated to exaggerate the threat of global warming.

Meanwhile, developing nations have demanded deeper emissions cuts from rich nations, particularly the United States, at UN climate talks in Denmark.

Negotiators are struggling to reach agreement on the depth of emissions cuts needed to slow the pace of climate change and are worried about the cost to their economies of switching from polluting fossil fuels to cleaner energy.

"We're off to a good start," Yvo de Boer, head of the UN Climate Change Secretariat, said of the December 7-18 talks.

He urged delegates to sort out technical details of an accord but said that the big issues such as emissions targets for rich nations and funds for the poor would have to wait for a December 18 summit that will be attended by over 100 world leaders.

Emission cuts offers from rich nations were far below what was needed, Dessima Williams of Grenada, chair of the 43-nation Alliance of Small Island States (AOSIS) said.

AOSIS wants emissions cut 45 per cent by 2020 from 1990 levels.

"Our 45 per cent remains on the table. Germany is at 40, the EU as a whole and some other countries are at 30. This is the time to escalate, to be ambitious," she said.

Washington, whose provisional offer to cut emissions by 17 per cent by 2020 from 2005 levels works out at just 3 per cent below 1990 levels, said on Monday it had legal authority to curb planet-warming emissions, a step delegates cautiously welcomed.

The US Environmental Protection Agency ruled that greenhouse gases endanger human health, allowing it to regulate them without legislation from the Senate, where a bill to cut US emissions by 2020 is stalled.

India was equally cautious.

"It's for the US to indicate how that will be reflected here in the negotiations, in terms of targets, and how those targets are going to be enforced," said Shyam Saran, India's special envoy for climate change.

Mr De Boer said the ruling was "like having a stick behind the door... something to fall back on" for President Barack Obama.

"I think that will boost peoples' confidence in the US coming forward with a number, and that number making it through," either as cap-and-trade or as regulation, he said.

The United States, as the world's number two emitter after China, is key to a deal in Copenhagen to break deadlock between rich and poor nations about sharing out the burden of curbs on greenhouse gas emissions.

- AFP/Reuters
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Also you implied that proxy data involved a few temperature measurements and some tree rings.

That is total falsification.

Most of you on the denial side are committing the abuses you claim to have found "proof" of in the emails.

You should try to be honest.

I imply nothing...ever. Your mind might imply words betwixt those I write. I said only what I said. If anything I write is unclear, please, do, call me on it and ask for clarification.
good morning all'

Done:

Ticket ID: LLC-659496
Category: Blogs
Quoting Canesinlowplaces:
Press, the point is there is not anything necessarily legally wrong with what Al is doing (that I know of anyway). The point is these AGW people always say "follow the money". Well, I would say don't be naive. There's plenty who will profit, either through money or power, from the Cap and Trade type systems being proposed. It's just a matter of whose coffers are going to get filled up. Al owns interest in some of the carbon offset firms not to mention his book royalties. Again, not necessarily wrong, but if you can't see the underlying motive, well...I don't know what I can do for you. Like I say, I can see evidence to support both sides, but both sides have their motives and each is as greedy as the other - just a case of human nature that we must do our best to keep from getting out of hand.


Al Gore was talking about climate change and global warming back in the 1970's, long before he owned any interest in carbon firms, Google, book royalties or anything else. I think Al Gore has more integrity in his pinky than all of the fossil fuel moguls combined. At least he's making money off of a worthy cause not raping people (gas prices) and promoting pollution at the same time.
Quoting AussieStorm:
Is it back to being civilized in here or should i come back in the morning?


It's pretty civilized.
Quoting AussieStorm:

Still not civil enough for me in here. i'm going to bed. goodnight ya'll.
Play nice
Will be back in about 7 hrs or how ever long my back lets me sleep... Btw.. has anyone heard from Floodman?

Haven't heard from Flood for a couple-three days. It's probably not good for his back and the healing process in here lately! Thanks for reminding me; I'll WU-mail him and Mrs. Flood later on. Good night, sleep well.
Thanks for reminding me.
Quoting JFLORIDA:


I am sorry you are leaving. But I feel a little more honesty here is needed. I think in the long run it will be beneficial.

I am not leaving because of "you". I am leaving cause it's 2:37am and i will be up with my kids at 7am.
Quoting niederwaldboy:


dude, crawl back under the rock where you came from. you are so DARN Rude...


It's not what is said, it's how it is being said. :)
Quoting CaneWarning:


It's pretty civilized.

when u hit the ignore button...hehe
Quoting AussieStorm:

I am not leaving because of "you". I am leaving cause it's 2:37am and i will be up with my kids at 7am.


lol Now thats a good reason. I just wanted to explain myself as I respect your input.
Quoting AussieStorm:

when u hit the ignore button...hehe


Well, yeah the iggy does help! :)
NSW: Record heat, storms and catastrophic fire danger

"Extreme" is the word of the day for New South Wales, with record summer temperatures, fire danger and thunderstorms.

A vigorous front is pushing its way through the state's south, forcing hot and dry northwesterly winds over the east and north.

A Total Fire Ban has been in force since Monday due to the unfortunate mix of gusty winds, dry air and hot temperatures, the perfect recipe for dangerous bushfires. Many places across the North West Slopes and Plains and the Hunter have recorded a Fire Danger Rating in excess of 100, now known as "catastrophic".

Storms have also had an impact, firing up in a line from Moree to Murrurundi at around 2pm. Any storms have the potential to cause damaging wind gusts and already Tamworth was buffeted by an 80km/h gust.

Temperatures have soared as well. Narrabri Airport recorded its hottest December temperature in at least six years, hitting 43C(109.4F) degrees, 11 above average.

Grafton also hit 43C(109.4F), making it the hottest December day in 19 years.

Tomorrow the heat is expected to persist in northern NSW although the coast will see some relief thanks to an overnight southerly change.

- Weatherzone
global warming is in florida, it was hot here yesterday.
Quoting Barney2012:
global warming is in florida, it was hot here yesterday.


It was foggy in Tampa all day long.
The only point I was trying to make is that the earth will recover man-made or not. This is not the first time this has happened and will not be the last. The only question is whether or not we survive. We spent millions of dollars trying to find a way to stop a hurricane. Man lets his ego get out of control trying to think that he can actualy stop the natural cycles of the earth.
Brrr:

Wednesday Night: Mostly cloudy, with a low around 13. Windy, with a west wind between 22 and 31 mph, with gusts as high as 43 mph.

Thursday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 20. Breezy, with a west wind between 17 and 22 mph, with gusts as high as 33 mph.
Quoting tornadodude:
Brrr:

Wednesday Night: Mostly cloudy, with a low around 13. Windy, with a west wind between 22 and 31 mph, with gusts as high as 43 mph.

Thursday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 20. Breezy, with a west wind between 17 and 22 mph, with gusts as high as 33 mph.


Did you get any snow yet?
Ok enough of the philosophy. What kind of storms are brewing for central GA?
Quoting CaneWarning:


It was foggy in Tampa all day long.


yeah, they were filming for my next show
Well the posts are all available to admin. I was honest; cliques dont excuse unethical behavior. I will return when more congenial and honest discussion is presented.
This is about 5 miles from my house:

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN NEW ORLEANS/BATON ROUGE HAS ISSUED A

* FLOOD WARNING FOR THE TCHEFUNCTE RIVER ABOVE US HIGHWAY 190 NEAR COVINGTON.
* FROM THIS AFTERNOON TO FRIDAY AFTERNOON...OR UNTIL THE WARNING IS CANCELLED.
* AT 6:00 AM TUESDAY THE STAGE WAS 14.6 FEET.
* MINOR FLOODING IS FORECAST.
* THE FLOOD STAGE IS 20.0 FEET.
* FORECAST...THE RIVER IS EXPECTED TO RISE ABOVE FLOOD STAGE BY LATE THIS AFTERNOON AND CONTINUE TO RISE TO NEAR 22.0 FEET BY LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT. THE RIVER IS EXPECTED TO FALL BELOW FLOOD STAGE BY FRIDAY MORNING.
* IMPACT...AT 22.0 FEET...TCHEFUNCTE CAMP GROUNDS WILL BE UNDER A FEW INCHES OF WATER. THE GOODBEE COMMUNITY IS THREATENED WITH FLOODING. WATER WILL INVADE CAMP TCHEFUNCTE`S PARKING LOT. VEHICLES MUST BE REMOVED TO HIGHER GROUND.


Hope the impact is minimal...

(No threat to myself...I live on a hill 12 feet+ higher than anything in a 2-mile radius. Canceled the flood ins.)
Quoting CaneWarning:


Did you get any snow yet?


I woke up to an inch of it yesterday morning, and it briefly snowed this morning, supposed to snow tomorrow afternoon as well.
Gore talking about global warming in the 1970's? I thought it was the new ice age back then. Ah well, shows how little I know.
1221. Buhdog
83 degrees in Ft Myers today! Tastes Great! Less Filling! (just wanted to join in the GW debate)
Quoting Buhdog:
83 degrees in Ft Myers today! Tastes Great! Less Filling! (just wanted to join in the GW debate)


Did you change your avatar?
Try to stay dry atmoaige
Quoting Canesinlowplaces:
Gore talking about global warming in the 1970's? I thought it was the new ice age back then. Ah well, shows how little I know.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet...
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
hmmm...Has anyone noted that Al Gore was actually gracious and noble, considering that he had an election stolen from him (IMO)? It could have gone VERY badly for the country...well, it kinda' did (GW...say, the initials are the same as Global Warming -- yeah, I'm slow sometimes).

A lot of people would have been a LOT worse than merely whiny and petulant. He could have gone postal!

Anyway, he's gone on to bring attention to some life and death issues (not just of us, but the planet), whether you agree with him or like him or not -- which of course is your right!

And the movie was gorgeous. If you hate what Gore was saying, just turn down the sound and look at the fantastic film work.


I'm with you! Nicely put.
atmo,hopefully the flooding will not find any buildings! It looks like mostly campground and parking lots!
Quoting atmoaggie:

Don't believe everything you read on the internet...


Lol
1228. Buhdog
Yeah Canes....the "holding the bird" pic was my first one i threw up there when it became available. I much prefer my "atomic" cloud pic by my house! Thanks for noticing
Quoting CaneWarning:


It was foggy in Tampa all day long.


WOW! Last night it was like a wall around the house the fog was so thick. Same thing this morning and it started lifting around 9am. Crazy fog! Pretty cool though...
Quoting Buhdog:
Yeah Canes....the "holding the bird" pic was my first one i threw up there when it became available. I much prefer my "atomic" cloud pic by my house! Thanks for noticing

What caused that cloud? Was it the space shuttle?
Quoting hurricanejunky:


WOW! Last night it was like a wall around the house the fog was so thick. Samne thing this morning and it started lifting around 9am. Crazy fog! Pretty cool though...


Yeah I like the fog as long as I'm not driving in it!
Quoting CaneWarning:
atmo,hopefully the flooding will not find any buildings! It looks like mostly campground and parking lots!

This part "THE GOODBEE COMMUNITY IS THREATENED WITH FLOODING" is a little concerning. Not heavily populated, or anything, but I don't wish to see a dozen neighbors with water in the house. Bad Christmas present. Far worse than coal in the stocking.
Thanks, Junky.

I was lucky enough to be at the Democratic convention in Los Angeles; not as a participant, but to do educational & informational programming on the U.S. Election process. Anyone who has an opportunity should go to one, either side. It is a whacky process but it's inspiring and still manages to be, dare I say, fun.
Canadians have better food at their "do's", though!
Quoting atmoaggie:

This part "THE GOODBEE COMMUNITY IS THREATENED WITH FLOODING" is a little concerning. Not heavily populated, or anything, but I don't wish to see a dozen neighbors with water in the house. Bad Christmas present. Far worse than coal in the stocking.


Hopefully it won't get into the houses! It's certainly an El Nino winter it seems.
Quoting HurricaneNewbie:
The only point I was trying to make is that the earth will recover man-made or not. This is not the first time this has happened and will not be the last. The only question is whether or not we survive. We spent millions of dollars trying to find a way to stop a hurricane. Man lets his ego get out of control trying to think that he can actualy stop the natural cycles of the earth.


Understood. I think your points are valid.
I don't think trying to stop hurricanes is in the same realm as trying to reduce C02 emissions though. I think it's foolish to try stopping hurricanes because they are such complex beasts and so many factors (some unknown) go into their development and subsequent existence. Atmospheric C02 concentration is cause and effect. If we stop dumping billions upon billions upon billions of tons of C02 into the atmosphere (not to mention the other toxic pollutants) or at least try mitigating it, MAYBE we can bring that atmospheric concentration down some or at least slow the increase. I'm no expert but it seems pretty basic to me.
1236. Buhdog
Canes...

It was just the reflection of the sun on one solo Cumulus tower! Really weird...my kids thought a nuke went off! Here is another shot that my buddy took from the other side of town.
Link
1237. RTLSNK
Quoting HurricaneNewbie:
Ok enough of the philosophy. What kind of storms are brewing for central GA?


Forecast for Macon = Rain. :)

Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
Thanks, Junky.

I was lucky enough to be at the Democratic convention in Los Angeles; not as a participant, but to do educational & informational programming on the U.S. Election process. Anyone who has an opportunity should go to one, either side. It is a wacky process but it's inspiring and still manages to be, dare I say, fun.
Canadians have better food at their "do's", though!


Sounds like fun!
1239. h0ff13
Quoting calusakat:
Lets look past the smokescreen of falsified weather data. Lets forget about the shills who spout the IPCC/AGW propaganda...we know who he/they are.


...snip...


Destructive self-serving, pocket lining fraud is being perpetrated upon the entire globe. A socialist/communist (From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.) ruse whose intent is not in helping anyone but themselves.



Well done. The internet is going to be the globalist/socialist/money trust downfall - slowly the number of people is rising who have been able to lift their thinking out of the mire of Democrats VS Reblicans, AGW VS Capitalism, Liberal VS Conservative - and have seen above the divide and conquer strategy of the elite - and seen the real conflict - freedom VS tyranny.
Its one thing to have Gore and Company set up a "Carbon Credit" credit business that sells a product that people (companies) want to buy. Thats "Free-enterprise". I'm all for it.
Its another thing to set up the the business and then scare and/or hood-wink the world and get the Government to change the laws and MANDATE that they MUST do business with you. What a sweet deal if you can make it happen.
Gore has found a way and has been working towards it for years. Don't be blinded by ideology.
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Its one thing to have Gore and Company set up a "Carbon Credit" credit business that sells a product that people (companies) want to buy. Thats "Free-enterprise". I'm all for it.
Its another thing to set up the the business and then scare and/or hood-wink the world and get the Government to change the laws and MANDATE that they MUST do business with you. What a sweet deal if you can make it happen.
Gore has found a way and has been working towards it for years. Don't be blinded by ideology.


it happens all the time...in a wide variety of industries...
BBL to continue this. :)
Quoting Buhdog:
Canes...

It was just the reflection of the sun on one solo Cumulus tower! Really weird...my kids thought a nuke went off! Here is another shot that my buddy took from the other side of town.
Link


That's really cool.
it was once thought that trying to stop polio was a fool's errand...
1245. hydrus
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Its one thing to have Gore and Company set up a "Carbon Credit" credit business that sells a product that people (companies) want to buy. Thats "Free-enterprise". I'm all for it.
Its another thing to set up the the business and then scare and/or hood-wink the world and get the Government to change the laws and MANDATE that they MUST do business with you. What a sweet deal if you can make it happen.
Gore has found a way and has been working towards it for years. Don't be blinded by ideology.
Nothing like being fatigued into compliance by big government. Next thing you know if we are not buying there merchandise people will be charged with neglect.
Holy Moly. The whole is bigger than the sum of its parts...

Video accompanies story:
Link

AP Story, in part:


Fierce snowstorm gains strength after hitting West

By FELICIA FONSECA, Associated Press Writer

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. – A howling winter storm barreled through the West, hitting the mountain states with snow and fierce winds as it headed toward the country's midsection on Tuesday.

The far-reaching storm system stretched from California to Indiana, gathering strength as it raced eastward.

Parts of Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa and Wisconsin were bracing for blizzard conditions and up to 10 inches of snow, according to the National Weather Service.

"The storm system is really strengthening as it goes, and that's usually a recipe for some heavy snowfall and a lot of wind, and that's what we're watching for," said Mike Welvaert of the National Weather Service in La Crosse, Wis.

The storm hit nearly all of the western mountain states on Monday, leaving places like Flagstaff and Reno, Nev., under a thick blanket of snow. Heavy rain raised fears of mudslides in wildfire-devastated Southern California, but no damage was reported. The weather system also snarled traffic and closed schools in Indiana, and crashes caused one death.

In the Phoenix area, fierce wind brought down power lines, left four hospitals temporarily without power and created wide outages. At one point, some 250,000 customers were without power; by early Tuesday, that number was down to about 58,000, a spokesman for Arizona Public Service Co. said.

The storm system lingered over the West on Tuesday.

On Monday, virtually the entire Western region was hit by wintry weather — from subzero wind chills in Washington state to heavy snow that closed schools and government offices in Reno, Nev. Big rigs were left jackknifed across highways in several states. (story continues...)
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Its one thing to have Gore and Company set up a "Carbon Credit" credit business that sells a product that people (companies) want to buy. Thats "Free-enterprise". I'm all for it.
Its another thing to set up the the business and then scare and/or hood-wink the world and get the Government to change the laws and MANDATE that they MUST do business with you. What a sweet deal if you can make it happen.
Gore has found a way and has been working towards it for years. Don't be blinded by ideology.


Yes Doug, don't be blinded by ideology, words to live by. What laws have been enacted that Al Gore is profiting from? Just curious...

I assume you were outraged when the Bush administration was awarding no-bid contracts to Haliburton and other ripoff artists that proceeded to war profiteer and make OBSCENE profits, sometimes at the expense of the men and women in the military. Now THAT was a hood-winking. I'm glad your outrage doesn't discriminate.
1246:

holy moly, a weather post :P
Quoting tornadodude:
1246:

holy moly, a weather post :P

Sheeeeeeeet, I thought it was philosophy.

Gestalt: The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

Is that high German? (LOL, the blog was having language lessons in here last night! All I could do was lurk, because Je ne comprende pas!)
Almost 12" of snow in Arizona? Holy crap! Does that happen often? I'm not terribly familiar with Arizona's annual snowfall amounts.
Quoting hurricanejunky:
Almost 12" of snow in Arizona? Holy crap! Does that happen often? I'm not terribly familiar with Arizona's annual snowfall amounts.

A guess, not a particularly well-educated one :)
Flagstaff, yes
Tucson, no
Phoenix, no
Sedona, gorgeous, who cares?
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:

Sheeeeeeeet, I thought it was philosophy.

Gestalt: The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

Is that high German? (LOL, the blog was having language lessons in here last night! All I could do was lurk, because Je ne comprende pas!)
\

haha I am trying to learn German and Swiss-German :P

Grothar muß ein aussehen heute bilden, wir vermissen ihn
T-Dude? Grothar's an AUSSIE?? OMG.
Just kidding. I have no idea what that says.
All I know is a few words of German and some great Yiddish insults.
Nothing funnier than a couple of decades ago, one of the kids from Iowa was semi-swearing in the Yiddish he'd picked up from our New York colleague!
National Situation Update: Tuesday, December 8, 2009
Homeland Security Threat Level: YELLOW (ELEVATED).
Significant National Weather

A major winter storm will move across the Midwest today. The storm center will make it to the Great Lakes by Wednesday. For the latest information on the weather expected with this storm visit the Hydrometeorological Prediction Center at www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/wwd/winter_wx.shtml.

West:
Snow is falling across higher elevations of the Southwest. Expect blizzard conditions with heavy snow and winds of 20 to 40 mph with gusts over 60 mph. Total snow amounts of two to four feet are expected with blowing and drifting snow due to the strong winds. Locally heavy rain showers are possible during the morning in southern Arizona and the lower elevations of New Mexico. Skies will clear and precipitation will end this afternoon as the low pressure system moves east. However, gusty winds will continue into the evening.

Midwest:
The low will produce moderate to heavy snow from the Plains into the Upper Mississippi Valley. With sustained winds of 15 to 30 mph and gusts over 40 mph, blizzard conditions are likely. Supplied by moisture from the Gulf of Mexico, the storm will produce a wintry mix over the central Mississippi and Ohio valleys. Tomorrow, the western part of the region begins to clear out but snow will continue to fall around the Great Lakes and the northern and central Mississippi Valley. Snowfall amounts of a foot or more are possible by the time the storm ends.

South:
Moisture from the Gulf of Mexico will be pulled northward over eastern Texas, the southern Plains and the lower Mississippi Valley. Tonight the storm will spread heavy rain across the rest of the Southeast all the way to the Atlantic Coast. During the afternoon and early evening, severe thunderstorms (gusty winds large hail and even tornadoes) are possible over the central Gulf Coast and the Carolinas.
Tomorrow the precipitation will have moved eastward into the Carolinas, Georgia and northern Florida with showers and a few thunderstorms. Rainfall totals are expected to be between one to four inches.

Northeast:
The region will start the day under high pressure but the approaching low pressure system will bring a wintry mix of rain, sleet and freezing rain to West Virginia, Virginia and southwest Pennsylvania by this afternoon. The mixed precipitation should turn to freezing rain by midnight and rain by Wednesday morning. The band of precipitation will continue to move northward reaching northern New York and central New England by tomorrow morning where it will gradually turn into a rain event. The Mid-Atlantic will receive the most precipitation with more than an inch. ( NOAA%u2019s National Weather Service, Various Media Sources)

High surf warning for Hawaii

A very large northwest swell generated over the North Pacific Ocean a few days ago will continue to bring dangerous and possibly damaging surf to exposed shores facing north, west and east through Wednesday. High surf warning is in effect for shores facing north and west on Niihau, Kauai, Oahu, Molokai, Maui and facing west and northeast on the Big Island. Surf of 30 to 40 feet will continue along north facing shore with some sets of 50 feet on the outer reefs tonight through Wednesday. Surf along west facing shores will be to 30 feet. The high surf, combined with a two foot high tide Tuesday morning, will increase the chance of waves washing onto roads and property along the immediate coast.
This event is being compared to a historical large surf event which took place Dec. 1-4, 1969. People going near the beach in affected areas are being advised to stay away from the water due to dangerous swimming conditions and deadly rip currents. (National Weather Service Honolulu HI)

Hazard Assessment (10 Dec -21 Dec 2009)

* Dec 10: Heavy, lake-effect snow downwind of the Great Lakes
* Dec 10-11: Much below normal temperatures spreading south and east across the central and eastern CONUS
* Dec 10-13: Much below normal temperatures for eastern Montana and the northern Plains
* Dec 12-16: Periods of heavy precipitation for northern and central California
* Dec 13-14: Much below normal temperatures for eastern Alaska
* Severe drought in parts of Wisconsin, Texas, and areas in the western U.S. Some relief is expected across the western U.S.(NWS, Climate Prediction Center)

Tropical Weather Outlook

No new activity (FEMA HQ)

Earthquake Activity

No new activity (FEMA HQ)
well, the rhetoric was certainly elevated in here while i was out....
Quoting pearlandaggie:
well, the rhetoric was certainly elevated in here while i was out....


You were supposed to stay and keep the peace!
Quoting pearlandaggie:
well, the rhetoric was certainly elevated in here while i was out....

MOI? Why, thank you, BLUSH (AS IF, lol.)
1256. as if! LOL
1257. i think you misunderstood my use of the word "elevated"! LOL

j/k :)
Quoting pearlandaggie:
1257. i think you misunderstood my use of the word "elevated"! LOL

j/k :)


Yes, it's much too early in the day to get high, er, I haven't done that since the 80's, YIKES, there goes the old security clearance...

Pearland: "Oh My...tsk tsk."
T-Dude: (:
1260. oh, my! LOL

...Girl, we couldn't get much higher
Come on baby, light my fire...

LOL...see, there i go again..."lowering the rhetoric"!
you guys are too funny :)
LOL LOL LOL
Funny, my kid likes The Doors more than I do!
I saw them in Baltimore back in...never mind...a lady doesn't disclose her age; me neither.

OKAAAAAY, then...who's got weather?
Atmo's got flooding in the neighborhood.

Sunny and chilly here. Still boring, but waiting for that icy mix tonight. Then I'll wish for boring!
with all the rain we've had in the last few weeks, i was surprised to find that we're still a couple of inches below normal. mind you, the situation is much better, but i guess i really underestimated the severity of the drought we were experiencing. i guess that's why the bluewater was so close to shore this summer! :)
Pearland, is blue water close to your shore bad? I'm obviously missing something.
1265. i figured someone would ask. no, the bluewater is not typically close to shore. we offshore fisherman have to go out 40 miles or more at times to reach the better-fishing bluewater. the greener waters typically contain a lot of king mackerel that aren't that great to eat and can slice up tackle and halve small snappers.
Quoting pearlandaggie:
1265. i figured someone would ask. no, the bluewater is not typically close to shore. we offshore fisherman have to go out 40 miles or more at times to reach the better-fishing bluewater. the greener waters typically contain a lot of king mackerel that aren't that great to eat and can slice up tackle and halve small snappers.


Blue water usually has to do with less freshwater or river run off. Freshwater and river runoff can cause algal blooms which changes the water to a greenish look. Less rain means less freshwater or river runoff. Lots of river runoff can turn ocean waters a murky brown basically from the fine sediments.
Blue water is better than a red tide anyday. Do you have red tide in your area?
Quoting CaneWarning:
Blue water is better than a red tide anyday. Do you have red tide in your area?


Red Tide can happen in any ocean water.
1266. Thanks for 'splaining. (Others, too!) So the good in the bad news was better eating fish, closer in?
In any case, happy fish fry! What's the best way to cook what you get? My husband isn't crazy about fish, and I'm thinking it's because I need better cooking methods/recipes. As I'm typing this...thinking fish is just better super-fresh. I remember that "blue" down at the shore was great because it was only a few hours old.
Quoting StormChaser81:


Red Tide can happen in any ocean water.


I guess I've only heard about it in Florida.
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
1266. Thanks for 'splaining. So the good in the bad news was better eating fish, closer in?
In any case, happy fish fry! What's the best way to cook what you get? My husband isn't crazy about fish, and I'm thinking it's because I need better cooking methods/recipes. As I'm typing this...thinking fish is just better super-fresh. I remember that "blue" down at the shore was great because it was only a few hours old.


Blackened fish is amazing, you can buy it at any super market, old bay seasoning makes a good blackened, there also pan frying it with butter lemon juice, and of course use a egg wash and bread chrums.
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
1266. Thanks for 'splaining. (Others, too!) So the good in the bad news was better eating fish, closer in?
In any case, happy fish fry! What's the best way to cook what you get? My husband isn't crazy about fish, and I'm thinking it's because I need better cooking methods/recipes. As I'm typing this...thinking fish is just better super-fresh. I remember that "blue" down at the shore was great because it was only a few hours old.


I like to bake my fish using olive oil and then add lemon juice! Great, now I'm hungry.
Quoting StormChaser81:


Blackened fish is amazing, you can buy it at any super market, old bay seasoning makes a good blackened, there also pan frying it with butter lemon juice, and of course use a egg wash and bread chrums.

YUM! Old Bay we've got, in spades!
Egg wash? Slightly beaten eggs?
Quoting StormChaser81:


Blue water usually has to do with less freshwater or river run off. Freshwater and river runoff can cause algal blooms which changes the water to a greenish look. Less rain means less freshwater or river runoff. Lots of river runoff can turn ocean waters a murky brown basically from the fine sediments.


yes, we're well aware of the green, murky, and chocolate milk varieties of ocean water (mostly chocolate milk!).

by the way, there is a new blog post.
Quoting CaneWarning:


I guess I've only heard about it in Florida.


No it happens all around the world, we usually get really bad ones because of the gulf of mexico being like a bath tub, china gets them too.

The red tide starts real deep in the water column, then starts working its way to the surface, once near the surface it starts releasing the toxins that bother people breathing and kills fish and mammals.
Quoting pearlandaggie:


yes, we're well aware of the green, murky, and chocolate milk varieties of ocean water (mostly chocolate milk!).

by the way, there is a new blog post.


YEA! THANKS NEW BLOG!

OLIVE OIL, yum, healthy... I'm hon-gry, too!!
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:

YUM! Old Bay we've got, in spades!
Egg wash? Slightly beaten eggs?


Just beaten eggs in a bowl, it makes the bread chrums stick and locks in moisture.
Quoting StormChaser81:


Just beaten eggs in a bowl, it makes the bread chrums stick and locks in moisture.


THANKS! See you on the other side!

Gee, it was SO nice in here, too...cooking with WU!
1280. gippgig
Is anyone trying to do anything about all those coal mine fires?
From http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6951029.ece

"One scientist told The Times he felt under pressure to sign. “The Met Office is a major employer of scientists and has long had a policy of only appointing and working with those who subscribe to their views on man-made global warming,” he said. "

This messenger sings a different tune...