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Another flooding mega-disaster: Sri Lanka recovers from extreme flooding

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 1:14 PM GMT on January 19, 2011

At least 43 are dead and thousands still in refugee camps due to extreme flooding in eastern Sri Lanka caused by record monsoon rains. According to the United Nations, the rains in recent weeks in Sri Lanka have been the heaviest in nearly 100 years of record keeping, and the flood that resulted was a 1-in-100 year event, according to The U.N. Global Disaster Alert and Coordination System. Rainfall at Batticaloa, Sri Lanka, during the 42-day period December 1 - January 12 was 1606 mm (63"), which is about how much rain the station usually receives in an entire year (1651 mm, or 65".) Sri Lanka's previous most devastating flooding disaster was the 2004 tsunami, but as The Economist commented, "in terms of the numbers of people displaced and farmland inundated, the floods have been even more devastating than the tsunami of December 2004." Damage estimates start at $500 million, and much of Sri Lanka's agriculture has been severely damaged by the disaster. Also of concern is the large number of land mines from the recent Sri Lanka civil war that may have been unearthed by the floods. Water is also a major concern in the flood-hit area, as fighting between government forces and Tamil Tigers rebels from mid-2007 to May 2009 damaged or destroyed almost all of the water facilities.


Figure 1. A family affected by the 2011 Sri Lanka floods braves the flood waters. Image credit: United Nations.

Sri Lanka is now the fifth nation in the past six month to suffer a flooding disaster unprecedented in its history. As I reported in a previous post, the other four mega-impact floods--the July 2010 Pakistan floods, the December - January Queensland Australia floods, the November 2010 Colombia floods, and the January 2011 Rio de Janeiro floods--were all accompanied by an atmosphere laden with moisture, due, in part, due to sea surface temperatures over nearby ocean areas that were the 2nd or 3rd warmest on record. However, that was not the case for the Sri Lanka floods. Ocean temperatures during December 2010 were 0.2°C below average in the 5x5 degree square of ocean adjoining the island (5N - 10N, 80E - 85E). The floods appear to be due to the normal monsoon rains that typically affect the region this time of year, enhanced by the strong La Niña event occurring in the Eastern Pacific.


Figure 2. Satellite-estimated precipitation over Sri Lanka for January 3 - 9. Up to 18 inches (525 mm) fell over eastern Sri Lanka. Image credit: NASA Earth Observatory.

Jeff Masters

Flood

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Quoting Grothar:


Did you know the water in your avatar moves when you look at it enlarged? Bet you knew that.


Had 40 minutes of silence yesterday night...
Quoting EYEStoSEA:


Well sure I do....is it frightening?


No, Grothar is not afraid of anything, except Mrs. Bjornsen. (pseudonym)
Quoting EnergyMoron:


Had 40 minutes of silence yesterday night...


Why, where did your wife go?
Quoting Grothar:


No, Grothar is not afraid of anything, except Mrs. Bjornsen.


RLOL (engels).

Snell... wel te rustig.

Energymoron~ I couldn't help but get in the debate a little this morning..

Continuing with current explosions & contaminations from all this use of oil..there was yet another today.

More than 30 people were hurt following an explosion at PetroChina Co.’s Fushun refining complex in northwestern Liaoning province, the official Xinhua News Agency said, without citing anyone. No deaths were reported. A fire that started after the explosion has been brought under control, Xinhua said. Mao Zefeng, PetroChina’s Beijing- based spokesman, said the country’s biggest oil and gas producer is investigating and couldn’t provide more details. The explosion is the second in less than five months at Fushun complex, after local news website lnd.com.cn and Caijing Online reported a blast at the plant in September. The incidents trailed a series of industrial accidents last year, including a blast at an abandoned chemical factory in Nanjing city in July that killed at least six people and wounded more than 300. Today’s explosion occurred at 9:25 a.m. local time and sparked a fire at a heavy-oil catalytic cracking unit, used to break down heavy oil products into lighter fuels including gasoline, Xinhua said. Fushun complex is capable of processing 11.5 million metric tons of crude annually and producing 1.84 million tons of chemicals a year, according to the website of PetroChina’s parent, China National Petroleum Corp. Last year, acid leaked from one of Zijin Mining Group Co.’s copper mines into a river in Fujian province, while an oil spill in northeastern China shut beaches and a port.
Quoting Grothar:


No, Grothar is not afraid of anything, except Mrs. Bjornsen.


LOL....well, wouldnt want to itimidate anyone with my cross-eyed avatar....have a good one with a hurricane on it, but gonna save it for "the season"
Quoting Grothar:


Why, where did your wife go?


Er zijn vragen die het beste zijn onbeantwartd
Quoting Skyepony:
Energymoron~ I couldn't help but get in the debate a little this morning..

Continuing with current explosions & contaminations from all this use of oil..there was yet another today.

More than 30 people were hurt following an explosion at PetroChina Co.%u2019s Fushun refining complex in northwestern Liaoning province, the official Xinhua News Agency said, without citing anyone. No deaths were reported. A fire that started after the explosion has been brought under control, Xinhua said. Mao Zefeng, PetroChina%u2019s Beijing- based spokesman, said the country%u2019s biggest oil and gas producer is investigating and couldn%u2019t provide more details. The explosion is the second in less than five months at Fushun complex, after local news website lnd.com.cn and Caijing Online reported a blast at the plant in September. The incidents trailed a series of industrial accidents last year, including a blast at an abandoned chemical factory in Nanjing city in July that killed at least six people and wounded more than 300. Today%u2019s explosion occurred at 9:25 a.m. local time and sparked a fire at a heavy-oil catalytic cracking unit, used to break down heavy oil products into lighter fuels including gasoline, Xinhua said. Fushun complex is capable of processing 11.5 million metric tons of crude annually and producing 1.84 million tons of chemicals a year, according to the website of PetroChina%u2019s parent, China National Petroleum Corp. Last year, acid leaked from one of Zijin Mining Group Co.%u2019s copper mines into a river in Fujian province, while an oil spill in northeastern China shut beaches and a port.


Did you see this one this morning?

Quoting Skyepony:
Energymoron~ I couldn't help but get in the debate a little this morning..


Folks who walk the talk are welcome in the debate anytime.

The Doc also had a ready answer on the personal commitment question.

Keep it up :).
Quoting EnergyMoron:


Er zijn vragen die het beste zijn onbeantwartd


Ik hoor u. Wij zijn alle daar geweest. LOL

Nice weather we have been having. Hope is stays that way.
Night everyone. Got to catch up on the beauty sleep. I figure 2 weeks should do it. Have fun.
Been trying to remember the last day we had sunshine, but my brain cells are to depleted from lack of it....
One more for the night:

Quoting Grothar:
Night everyone. Got to catch up on the beauty sleep. I figure 2 weeks should do it. Have fun.


Well, will click out after this...

Thanks for the link (as taz would say, "reported").

Gro, at your age, "beauty sleep"? As in "the beast"?

hit post then click (the instructions)
515. xcool
Wow~ How did I miss that explosion..

EnergyMoron~ I've really over the years done more than my share of debate here on AGW. Actually swayed some. I'm too short on time to rehash it these days. There is so much coming out in recently published articles (like the one I posted earlier) & new info to digest to keep riding the ones that don't get science & never had a chem class, though I'm glad others are. I suppose I've changed my debate again..lately it's been more~ are all these explosions worth the pollution this stuff causes? We've been too dumbed down & fed lies. That's why the scientific debate of AGW will never get us off oil & why the focus stays on that. Majority never took the sort of classes where they could understand the concept. The why we need to change to renewables needs to be simplified to other easier to understand problems the common person can grasp~ so we can keep the Appalachians, so they don't turn the northern midwest into Canada's Tar fields, we don't need anymore oil spills, have you seen the price of gas? Jeez that's gonna raise the price of beer..alot.

One last look at that blob NE of Fiji & I'm out.
Climate scientists targeted for fraud

Fraudsters are targeting climate scientists with fake conferences in a bid to make cash and obtain details.

Absolutely despicable.
The heat in the western U.S.--and the lack of anything but normal cold elsewhere--rolls on. In the past four days, there have been just 11 record daily low or low maximums set or tied across the country--against a whopping 376 record daily highs or high minimums. Among those low temps: 56 in Waikiki, Hawaii. Among the highs: 43 in Libby, Montana, and 89 in McAllen, Texas. (Not to pick on JB, but this might just be the final nail in the coffin for his "coldest January since 1985" forecast; with the exception of three or four days of bitter cold two weeks ago, the country has been mostly normal.)

It's 60 here, headed for a nice high of about 80. One quick bit of cool is expected over the weekend, but every other day for the next ten is expected to be in the 70s. As I so often say, sounds good to me.
g'morning wu-bloggers worldwide

I'd say it looks like a lovely day, except it's so foggy, I can't tell. Poor Moon has on her high beams, just so I can see her.
520. IKE
My weekend forecast on NFL conference championship weekend....

Friday: Partly sunny, with a high near 50. North northeast wind between 5 and 10 mph.

Friday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 25. North northeast wind around 5 mph becoming calm.

Saturday: Sunny, with a high near 53. Calm wind becoming northwest between 5 and 10 mph.

Saturday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 25.

Sunday: Sunny, with a high near 55.

EEEK!!! Ike! 25º??

now tell me- have they been yanking your saturday night low temp all over the board? cause we have gone from 49º, to 31º, back up to 39º...but our local NWS did admit they were having a hard time get a handle on the temps.
522. IKE
Quoting aquak9:
EEEK!!! Ike! 25º??

now tell me- have they been yanking your saturday night low temp all over the board? cause we have gone from 49º, to 31º, back up to 39º...but our local NWS did admit they were having a hard time get a handle on the temps.


I haven't really been paying that much attention to it. Busy working.

Maybe they've dropped the lows a few degrees this weekend.

I was wanting to work in my yard some more this weekend. Highs in the low-mid 50's might be warm enough:)

Nice out this morning. 42.6 at my location.
523. IKE
Heard this on Sirius yesterday....Link
that is good that you are busy, ike. I am still working 64 hours a week, except every third week, and then I work 72.

It is, what it is... :(

real foggy here, but the moon is still glowing. Spring will come soon, ike.
525. IKE
Quoting aquak9:
that is good that you are busy, ike. I am still working 64 hours a week, except every third week, and then I work 72.

It is, what it is... :(

real foggy here, but the moon is still glowing. Spring will come soon, ike.


I've been real busy since November. It's slowed down this week, but still profitable.

You work a lot.
Morning folks. Neapolitan, I'm up in East Saint Louis visiting friends for a day. Could you send some of those 70's up our way?
At the moment, upper teens & brisk east winds off the lake knocking wind chills in the single digits appear to be the weather at game time during kickoff for the Bears hosting the Packers for the NFC Championship Game this Sunday at 2pm CST.
cat5- sorry, we floridians are being greedy with our warmer temps :)

ike- I will work till I die...can't listen to the link at work :(
Quoting aquak9:
cat5- sorry, we floridians are being greedy with our warmer temps :)

ike- I will work till I die...can't listen to the link at work :(

No prob - I understand. It'll only be a few days though that I'll be in the frozen tundra. It's pretty treacherous out on highway 1 between Coral Gables & Kendall. Fog is dense.
Another day without Global Warming occuring, its gonna be a good day!
we are dense fog up here in Jax, too, cat5. I'm on the 8th floor and can not see anything.
Quoting HIPPOCRITT:
Another day without Global Warming occuring, its gonna be a good day!

ALWAYS a good day when that's the case. I just offer up folks an ice cold beer & usually then they are happy.
Quoting aquak9:
we are dense fog up here in Jax, too, cat5. I'm on the 8th floor and can not see anything.

Yep. Always better than that extremely dry air though...give me the fog anyday cuz you know when it'll burn off, out comes the sun.
Quoting aquak9:
that is good that you are busy, ike. I am still working 64 hours a week, except every third week, and then I work 72.

It is, what it is... :(

real foggy here, but the moon is still glowing. Spring will come soon, ike.
two more moons till spring
hi keeper

2 more moons? ahh well.
538. IKE
Quoting aquak9:
cat5- sorry, we floridians are being greedy with our warmer temps :)

ike- I will work till I die...can't listen to the link at work :(


George Harrison...When we was Fab...1987...only got up to #23. WTH?
How Fast is Earth Warming?



This shows what you get when you adjust for solar activity, volcanoes and ENSO (as you may recall, I posted something similar the other day and wondered if there was a more up to date version since it ended in 2007). Also, the temperature trend for GISS actually decreases slightly when adjusted, from 0.176°C per decade to 0.172 (the others all show more warming with RSS leading and UAH lagging). Also:

Another interesting point is that in the adjusted data sets, all 5 sources have 2010 as the hottest year on record. In fact, 4 out of 5 (all but NCDC) also have 2009 as the 2nd-hottest year — quite the 1-2 punch. Of course all trends are statistically significant — strongly so. The conclusion is inescapable: the globe is warming, and shows absolutely no sign whatever of stopping or even slowing its warming. Any talk of “cooling” or even a “levelling off” of global warming over the last decade is absolute nonsense.


Also important to note about the satellite datasets, as I have also mentioned before:

The lower-troposphere data (both RSS and UAH) really do respond much more strongly to exogenous factors than surface temperature data. Their response to volcanic forcing is about 50% bigger, and their response to both el Nino and solar variations is just about twice as large as that of the surface temperature records. In fact, for the surface temperature data the response to solar variation is not quite statistically significant, but for lower-troposphere data the solar response is definitely significant.
The fog for southern Florida should be burning off completely by approximately 10am EST.
Navy declared the blob NE of Fiji (06F) an invest..95P is born.

Aqua~Thick fog last few has been such a treat.. the moisture. That would be torcher, behind glass, skin/lungs deprived of drinking it in.
20 January 2011 — The Met Office and the University of East Anglia have today released provisional global temperature figures for 2010, which show the year to be the second warmest on record.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/archive/2011/2010-global-temperature

Link
Good morning everyone. Well for the 4th time in the last 2 weeks the Keys are socked in with fog. In my 50 years living here I do not recall such an occurance. Real strange since this is our "dry" season. Lot of moisture in the air. Hopefully, it will dampen the fire season in Florida. Our visibility this morning was 500 feet in some places. And nice and quiet. The only other times I have seen fog thicker is when I was traveling through the panhandle during Dec in 1970. It was so thick the bus had missed the exit ramp off I10 and backed up to take it. I have never been so scared!
skye- is not so bad, like being in a fantasy land up here, barely seeing the edge of a treetop, looking down.

the fog is sweet, soft. Yeah I wish I could be outside playing in it, tho.
Quoting Xyrus2000:


But how?

You believe that everything and anything even remotely related to climate science is distorted by some giant conspiracy. You've built your arguments on that wild belief, and have committed about every logical fallacy known while doing so from Ad Hominem to Strawman.

There IS no logical argument to be made because you've started from the point of fallacious reasoning. EVERYTHING said from the science stand point is wrong, by virtue of it being climate scientists. We might as well argue about the existence of a deity, because it's about as pointless with your logic.

You don't address questions. You don't post verified data. You make wide sweeping accusations with no verifiable proof. From your postings you don't even understand the basics of climate science. You constantly fall back on "The Lords Of Climate" or some other middle school-esque antics dismissing anything you don't wish to address with passive aggressive behavior and an arrogance bordering on that of extreme religious leaders.

If this is your view of how a constructive debate is had about a subject, especially a scientific one, you either need to go back to school or grow up (or both). Your "discussion" abilities are more suited to the schoolyard or arguing "My god can beat up your god" nonsense.

I don't care if you don't think that climate change is happening. Good for you. Ignorance is bliss. But if you can't partake intelligently and maturely in a discussion then keep your beliefs to yourself, because that is all they are.


Ah more trash talk from the Great X.

As long as weather scientists can look us in the eye and tell us that altered and falsified data, collected using admitted sloppy data gathering techniques, is somehow made true and accurate through the use of the 'Disclaimer', your defense of those scientists and their conclusions, by slandering those who see through the sham is specious at best and reprehensible is probably a more appropriate description.

These discussions are about the future of this planet and we must all insist on high levels of accuracy in order to be sure we make a truly informed decision when dealing with AGW and its supposed dangers. Even those who worship the concept of AGW, as you so clearly do, should at least have the strength of character to demand those same high levels of accuracy as well. Your catterwalling and railing against those who see things differently seem to suggest that you, down deep, know it is wrong to allow such sloppy science.

I think it was Mark Twain who once said..'A man always gets angry when he's wrong.'

Maybe, someday you will wake up.

Until then we will keep the light on for you.



95P got a floater even..


Aqua~ That must be surreal being so high up in thick fog.
Quoting Skyepony:
95P got a floater even..


Aqua~ That must be surreal being so high up in thick fog.


it's better than being in a lockdown mental/criminal/forensic facility, hahaha...expect it's more depressing here.

The windows (we are windows all around) are glowing.
Good Morning/Evening

Michael,
It looks like there is a periodic cold year, timed with the US presidential cycle (every 4th year)since 2000. I'm surprised to see a signal like that arrise out of all the model noise in the previous 15 to 25 years.
Quoting Sergej7:
20 January 2011 — The Met Office and the University of East Anglia have today released provisional global temperature figures for 2010, which show the year to be the second warmest on record.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/archive/2011/2010-global-temperature

Link


'Provisional'?

Are they changing from 'Disclaimer'? Hmmmm.

Keep an eye on that word folks.



Quoting HIPPOCRITT:
Another day without Global Warming occuring, its gonna be a good day!
But its just around the corner,spring that is!
Quoting kwgirl:
Good morning everyone. Well for the 4th time in the last 2 weeks the Keys are socked in with fog. In my 50 years living here I do not recall such an occurance. Real strange since this is our "dry" season. Lot of moisture in the air. Hopefully, it will dampen the fire season in Florida. Our visibility this morning was 500 feet in some places. And nice and quiet. The only other times I have seen fog thicker is when I was traveling through the panhandle during Dec in 1970. It was so thick the bus had missed the exit ramp off I10 and backed up to take it. I have never been so scared!

It's been very humid here in Naples lately. Perfect. A few weeks ago the grass and trees were gray from several frost events, but with the odd rains--three in the past two weeks--new grass has pushed up through the dead stuff, so even areas that aren't being artificially watered are turning green. I've even seen lawn care crews on the roads the last few days, and that's a welcome sight. The orchid trees are in full bloom, with the royal poincianas next, to be followed by the tabebuias. I'm sure there'll be more nasty cold to harsh my buzz, but for now, I'm loving it. ;-)

Wait--your bus driver backed up on the interstate? In thick fog? Wow...
Same as it ever was.
Oil Supermajors Desperately Chasing a Tar Sands Pipe Dream

This was pretty enlightning.. Madagascar and Jordan have already signed away to open their tar sands.

The last few years the oil companies have been lobbying hard to remove pretty much all the wild horses from out west. Many thought it was because of the big pipeline they were trying to put in from the canada tar pits to the US refineries (this passed Aug 21st). According to this "they're also eyeing hungrily the potentially massive oil shale deposits spread across Utah, Colorado and Wyoming."

Who cares if the horses of the wild west are gone, Utah, Colorado and Wyoming look like this..as long as we are free to continue to prematurely kill 3% of our population with air pollution..right kat? (oh & make that guy on the right richer)
Quoting Skyepony:
Oil Supermajors Desperately Chasing a Tar Sands Pipe Dream

This was pretty enlightning.. Madagascar and Jordan have already signed away to open their tar sands.

The last few years the oil companies have been lobbying hard to remove pretty much all the wild horses from out west. Many thought it was because of the big pipeline they were trying to put in from the canada tar pits to the US refineries (this passed Aug 21st). According to this "they're also eyeing hungrily the potentially massive oil shale deposits spread across Utah, Colorado and Wyoming."

Who cares if the horses of the wild west are gone, Utah, Colorado and Wyoming look like this..as long as we are free to continue to prematurely kill 3% of our population with air pollution..right? (oh & make that guy on the right richer)
They probably want to make lots of money before cleaner energy sources take hold. The Saudi,s are sitting on an estimated 50 trillion dollars worth. I would bet they too would like to sell it all before oil becomes less of energy player globally...Just my harmless two cents Sky..:)
Why is it that if you click " Plain Text" the buttons such as Bold, Italic, Link, Image and List disappear  above the box??
Quoting Neapolitan:

It's been very humid here in Naples lately. Perfect. A few weeks ago the grass and trees were gray from several frost events, but with the odd rains--three in the past two weeks--new grass has pushed up through the dead stuff, so even areas that aren't being artificially watered are turning green. I've even seen lawn care crews on the roads the last few days, and that's a welcome sight. The orchid trees are in full bloom, with the royal poincianas next, to be followed by the tabebuias. I'm sure there'll be more nasty cold to harsh my buzz, but for now, I'm loving it. ;-)

Wait--your bus driver backed up on the interstate? In thick fog? Wow...
Yeah, and he was going slow to begin with and totally did not see the ramp or sign until past it. I couldn't believe the fact that he was backing up. I was thankful that he didn't run off the road or that someone didn't plow into us. It was dark and I was sitting right behind the driver. I was 18 at the time and should have reported him, but didn't.
Quoting RitaEvac:
Why is it that if you click " Plain Text" the buttons such as Bold, Italic, Link, Image and List disappear  above the box??

Honestly, I haven't quite figured that out either. For me, it does that exact same thing if I hit the "Rich Text" button.

When that does happen for me, I log out and then back in and that usually fixes it. Try that.
Quoting Skyepony:
Oil Supermajors Desperately Chasing a Tar Sands Pipe Dream

This was pretty enlightning.. Madagascar and Jordan have already signed away to open their tar sands.

The last few years the oil companies have been lobbying hard to remove pretty much all the wild horses from out west. Many thought it was because of the big pipeline they were trying to put in from the canada tar pits to the US refineries (this passed Aug 21st). According to this "they're also eyeing hungrily the potentially massive oil shale deposits spread across Utah, Colorado and Wyoming."

Who cares if the horses of the wild west are gone, Utah, Colorado and Wyoming look like this..as long as we are free to continue to prematurely kill 3% of our population with air pollution..right kat? (oh & make that guy on the right richer)

Completely inexcusable. These shameless profit-over-people types are like a pack of snarling and ravenous jackals who are moving in on their deeply-wounded prey, fangs dripping and eyes wide as they tear and rip at the dying animal, fighting each other over every last shred of flesh. It matters not to them what's right, what's ethical, what's moral, what's logical; their only motive is to put billions more in their pockets and portfolios, the world and its future be damned.

They make me sick.
562. Jax82
doh!

Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Same as it ever was.

"letting the days go by"
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:

"letting the days go by"


let the water hold me up
(once in a lifetime)
On the drive in this morning, Robert D. Raiford of the John-Boy and Billy Big Show says global warming science is sound and beyond reproach. So there you have it, case closed...

Oh, good morning all...
Quoting aquak9:


let the water hold me up
(once in a lifetime)
same as it ever was,......same as it ever was........same as it ever was.... Good mornin...:)
this is not my beautiful house
this is not my beautiful wife

hi hydrus
Quoting aquak9:
this is not my beautiful house
this is not my beautiful wife

hi hydrus
Flashback to 1984...(your gonna luv it)...Link
Quoting RitaEvac:
Why is it that if you click " Plain Text" the buttons such as Bold, Italic, Link, Image and List disappear  above the box??


Because plain text doesn't have those features...it's just, well, "plain text"

Quoting cat5hurricane:

Honestly, I haven't quite figured that out either. For me, it does that exact same thing if I hit the "Rich Text" button.

When that does happen for me, I log out and then back in and that usually fixes it. Try that.

Whatever it is it's attached to my account.  I did it at work and those buttons disappeared, went home and it was the same way as if I did it at home on my computer.  I logged out the other day and got back in and it did not fix it, sounds like they have a bug.  Only way I can bypass this is to use Firefox which is what I'm using now.

Quoting Floodman:


Because plain text doesn't have those features...it's just, well, "plain text"
 But I don't have the option to switch back to rich text, there's nothing to select, everything is gone
Howdy all...
Quoting RitaEvac:


Whatever it is it's attached to my account.  I did it at work and those buttons disappeared, went home and it was the same way as if I did it at home on my computer.  I logged out the other day and got back in and it did not fix it, sounds like they have a bug.  Only way I can bypass this is to use Firefox which is what I'm using now.

That's exactly what I use now - Firefox. I started to about a year ago and I have never looked back...nor had the issues. Plus the page does not stretch when certain things get posted.
Quoting RitaEvac:

 But I don't have the option to switch back to rich text, there's nothing to select, everything is gone


Use "settings" at the top of the page -> "page preferences" and set to default.
Quoting Floodman:


Because plain text doesn't have those features...it's just, well, "plain text"
Hello Flood. Hows da back..?
as usual, it's the rich-text denialists that try to run the blog

(j/k)
Quoting hydrus:
They probably want to make lots of money before cleaner energy sources take hold. The Saudi,s are sitting on an estimated 50 trillion dollars worth. I would bet they too would like to sell it all before oil becomes less of energy player globally...Just my harmless two cents Sky..:)


Did you see where Venezuela and China signed an agreement to drill for oil and pay Venezuela for each barrel of oil?

AGW is now going to be relegated to the schoolbooks telling what they tried and failed to do.

Time to work on adapting our lives to any global environment issues instead of attempting to perpetuate the one we are in.

The Lords of AGW are not the deities they would love to have us believe they are.




his back, my arm. whats different
"Wait a minute mister"
"I didn't even kiss her"

Quoting nrtiwlnvragn:


Use "settings" at the top of the page -> "page preferences" and set to default.

Switched to Internet Explorer and did the above and it worked, thanks.  Explorer sucks,
Quoting plywoodstatenative:
his back, my arm. whats different
Your arm.? Wuzup with your arm??
Nope, they sure aren't.
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
"Wait a minute mister"
"I didn't even kiss her"

"Don't want no trouble with you"...
Bastardi put out a new video on Accuweather, he believes the Earth is cooling down rather then warming up.. He has data to prove in the video and of course, we've had unusually cold winter the last two years here in the south. Look at the facts people, it's not warming up, it's cooling down. La Nina will be with us for a few years, no El Nino for a while.
Bastardis video on the cold air trend
Not bad...how about you, how have you been?
hey wait!! who's been kissin??

(hunts around for Nea, angrily)
579. PalmBeachWeather 8:18 AM PST on January 20, 2011

"Wait a minute mister"
"I didn't even kiss her"


"won't you give me three steps..."
AMY!!!!
JERRY!!!!
547.

As long as weather scientists can look us in the eye and tell us that altered and falsified data, collected using admitted sloppy data gathering techniques, is somehow made true and accurate through the use of the 'Disclaimer', your defense of those scientists and their conclusions, by slandering those who see through the sham is specious at best and reprehensible is probably a more appropriate description.

These discussions are about the future of this planet and we must all insist on high levels of accuracy in order to be sure we make a truly informed decision when dealing with AGW and its supposed dangers. Even those who worship the concept of AGW, as you so clearly do, should at least have the strength of character to demand those same high levels of accuracy as well. Your catterwalling and railing against those who see things differently seem to suggest that you, down deep, know it is wrong to allow such sloppy science.

I think it was Mark Twain who once said..'A man always gets angry when he's wrong.'



Old Irish verse....




..'Its better to be thought a fool,

Than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt'..


Feel free to expound your beliefs to the World.

Quoting NRAamy:
JERRY!!!!


How you doing, toots?
Quoting reedzone:
Bastardi put out a new video on Accuweather, he believes the Earth is cooling down rather then warming up.. He has data to prove in the video and of course, we've had unusually cold winter the last two years here in the south. Look at the facts people, it's not warming up, it's cooling down. La Nina will be with us for a few years, no El Nino for a while.
Bastardis video on the cold air trend


Thx for the link, very solid info.
There was video?


Solid?

LOL

NOAA is Wrong?


U go Joe


Global Climate Change Indicators
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Climatic Data Center



Many lines of scientific evidence show the Earth's climate is changing. This page presents the latest information from several independent measures of observed climate change that illustrate an overwhelmingly compelling story of a planet that is undergoing global warming. It is worth noting that increasing global temperature is only one element of observed global climate change. Precipitation patterns are also changing; storms and other extremes are changing as well.
How do we know the Earth's climate is warming?

Thousands of land and ocean temperature measurements are recorded each day around the globe. This includes measurements from climate reference stations, weather stations, ships, buoys and autonomous gliders in the oceans. These surface measurements are also supplemented with satellite measurements. These measurements are processed, examined for random and systematic errors, and then finally combined to produce a time series of global average temperature change. A number of agencies around the world have produced datasets of global-scale changes in surface temperature using different techniques to process the data and remove measurement errors that could lead to false interpretations of temperature trends. The warming trend that is apparent in all of the independent methods of calculating global temperature change is also confirmed by other independent observations, such as the melting of mountain glaciers on every continent, reductions in the extent of snow cover, earlier blooming of plants in spring, a shorter ice season on lakes and rivers, ocean heat content, reduced arctic sea ice, and rising sea levels.



Annual surface temperatures for the contiguous U.S. compared to the 20th Century (1901-2000) average. Calculated from the U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN version 2). More information: U.S. Surface Temperature Data, USHCN v2.

Quoting reedzone:
Bastardi put out a new video on Accuweather, he believes the Earth is cooling down rather then warming up.. He has data to prove in the video and of course, we've had unusually cold winter the last two years here in the south. Look at the facts people, it's not warming up, it's cooling down. La Nina will be with us for a few years, no El Nino for a while.
Bastardis video on the cold air trend
Neapolitan,what sayeth you?
Quoting reedzone:
Bastardi put out a new video on Accuweather, he believes the Earth is cooling down rather then warming up.. He has data to prove in the video and of course, we've had unusually cold winter the last two years here in the south. Look at the facts people, it's not warming up, it's cooling down. La Nina will be with us for a few years, no El Nino for a while.
Bastardis video on the cold air trend

Someone should tell Bastardi--aka "Mr. This Will Be The Coldest January In 25 Years!!"--that weather forecasting is much easier and less exacting than climate forecasting, so until/unless he can correctly tell us what's going to happen five days from now, he should probably leave the climate predictions to the actual climate scientists. IOW, he really doesn't have a clue.

(Oft-Repeated Caveat: 2011 will not be as warm as 2010. Going by that alone, some may claim the planet is cooling...but climate change is a long-term thing, and in the long term, the planet is warming--and will likely continue to do so overall.)
Quoting overwash12:

Neapolitan,what sayeth you?

Verily I say unto thee, see comment #595.
Jerry.... on my own.... TCB.... moving to Florida sometime this year....

How are you and the Mrs. doing?

:)
Quoting aquak9:
(hunts around for Nea, angrily)

Angrily?! Hey, what'd I do?!

;-)

Quoting Neapolitan:

Someone should tell Bastardi--aka "Mr. This Will Be The Coldest January In 25 Years!!"--that weather forecasting is much easier and less exacting than climate forecasting, so until/unless he can correctly tell us what's going to happen five days from now, he should leave the climate predictions to the actual climate scientists. IOW, he really doesn't have a clue.

(Oft-Repeated Caveat: 2011 will not be as warm as 2010. Going by that alone, some may claim the planet is cooling...but climate change is a long-term thing, and in the long term, the planet is warming--and will likely continue to do so overall.)
I don't think I would go that far as to say he doesn't have a CLUE!
He aint much of a Poet neither,JB.

What’s most fitting is to end with some excerpts from his poetry:

Friends, Romans, Citizens of the World, lend me your laptops.
For I come to bury the notion of cyclical warming, not to praise it….
When there was no air conditioning, we created them
It saved lives, did this cause too much warming?
But the Models say Caesar caused Global Warming
and the Models are all honorable and always right….
And they would go and kiss dead Caesars wounds
and dip their napkins in the oil of his SUV
Yes beg a hair of him for memories,
which can be beautiful and yet
what’s too painful to remember, we simply must forget
(Apparently Barbara Streisand assisted Shakespeare in this parallel Rome in writing this. How else could exist that last line?)

That is too painful to remember. I hope you can forget it.
At least Joe admitted he was wrong on the winter forecast for this year, he didn't see the strength of the La Nina. I agree with him, no El Nino for a while now. Look at the trends, they go up and down from warm to cold in a matter of years. We are in the downward trend, which means a cold few years ahead. Apparently you all didn't watch the video when he showed actual data. He's a MET, has a degree, sometimes a little loopy, but does point out evidence leading to his opinions. What do you have? Nothing but a mind. He's trained in MET school for years that earned his degree in weather. So I wouldn't count it ALL out when it comes to his "loopy opinions".
I missed this, somehow.

The hydroxyl radical is central to all things air pollution meteorology...

And now, we have a better understanding of it's behavior, globally.

NOAA-led Research Team Takes Measure of the Variability of the Atmosphere’s Self-Cleaning Capacity
"An international, NOAA-led research team took a significant step forward in understanding the atmosphere’s ability to cleanse itself of air pollutants and some other gases, except carbon dioxide. The issue has been controversial for many years, with some studies suggesting the self-cleaning power of the atmosphere is fragile and sensitive to environmental changes, while others suggest greater stability. And what researchers are finding is that the atmosphere’s self-cleaning capacity is rather stable. "
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2011/20110106_atmosphericcleaning.html
The United Nations has appealed for emergency aid to help victims of flood-hit Sri Lanka.

At least 38 people have lost their lives and many others are still missing.

Crops have been severely damaged and thousands of people are now homesless.

Al Jazeera's Veronica Pedrosa reports from one of the worst hit districts.

Patrap.

I just think he was being more observational than anything in that video. He does bring up some interesting variables coming into play with the next solar minimum along with back to back La Nina trends and correlations of previous analog years. Whats the harm at looking at that data? It could offset, to a degree, the rate of warming in the years to come. He also says that one of the two drivers; be it by humans or la-nina/el nino trends, would be confronted with in the next decade or so. Which I think it will only add as more evidence for or agianst the theory?

IMO I do believe that Climate Change is a very real threat, but we don't understand fully yet, and we really don't know to what extent we what kind of changes we are going to expect from especially on a local scale, which is where we lack accuracy in weather forcasting.
Quoting Neapolitan:

Angrily?! Hey, what'd I do?!

;-)


they said there was kissin' goin' on...
Quoting reedzone:
What do you have? Nothing but a mind.

Well, that alone gives me a leg up on JB, doesn't it?

;-)

Look, I'm not denying JB's a fairly proficient met. But where long-term trends are concerned, the difference between a meteorologist and a climate scientist is about the same as that between a nurse and a surgeon. Yes, the former knows a subset of what the latter knows--but you'd want only the latter cutting you open.
I dont watch JB rhetoric at all..

The way Im configured for viewing here,,well..My filter setting is key to seeing what matters.

I like Joe,,but he is NO climatologist.

One should never sensationalize the Weather for viewers or in his case,customers as well.
Quoting reedzone:
At least Joe admitted he was wrong on the winter forecast for this year, he didn't see the strength of the La Nina. I agree with him, no El Nino for a while now. Look at the trends, they go up and down from warm to cold in a matter of years. We are in the downward trend, which means a cold few years ahead. Apparently you all didn't watch the video when he showed actual data. He's a MET, has a degree, sometimes a little loopy, but does point out evidence leading to his opinions. What do you have? Nothing but a mind. He's trained in MET school for years that earned his degree in weather. So I wouldn't count it ALL out when it comes to his "loopy opinions".

Well Reed, as it goes here. Many staunch AWG supporters only endorse all evidence that positively point to humans being the absolute cause of the warming theory. If one has an opinion and/or happens to express evidence that says otherwise, they are ostracized. It's their way or the highway. They are right, and you are wrong. Period.

For some, they can't see past their egos. Instead of keeping an open mind to the subject that allow different opinions, they believe only what they want to believe.

But I don't let that stop me from posting, and neither should you or anyone else who may share similar views other than an absolutely-positively AWG mindset.
Quoting reedzone:
Bastardi put out a new video on Accuweather, he believes the Earth is cooling down rather then warming up.. He has data to prove in the video and of course, we've had unusually cold winter the last two years here in the south. Look at the facts people, it's not warming up, it's cooling down. La Nina will be with us for a few years, no El Nino for a while.
Bastardis video on the cold air trend



Thats interesting. Bastardi has had some real trouble - hopefully he has been very careful and this video is full of correct information.

His reputation is suffering among professionals now I think.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
But I haven't herd anything negative about his bodybuilding.

Some folks who study weather and climate have other interests besides their career. That's only healthy. It's called having a life.
Quoting Floodman:
Not bad...how about you, how have you been?
Doin o.k...busy would be an understatement....We got more snow coming...One month into winter and I am tired of it already...They say there is more coming....
Quoting JFLORIDA:
But I haven't herd anything negative about his bodybuilding.



sorry jf, but I think he looks like hell now...but that always happens once ya quit the steroids.
I know! doesnt it - I should not have stopped! At least I have my body still. lol!

I dont think he ever really looked all that good seriously. He was fine before that. Can you imagine all the time too? 
Joe does look ill.
4 shot,2 Killed in Miami shooting, shooter one.

Miami-Dade police officer, suspect killed

How does anyone on the planet know what the climate is supposed to be? The Earth has been heating up and cooling down for how long now? We can only briefly look back at accurate records(140 years or so) since records been kept. 
It is incredible. That the earths energy budget is so well studied. There is a army of researchers working on the problems that have greatly extended knowledge.
Quoting hydrus:
Doin o.k...busy would be an understatement....We got more snow coming...One month into winter and I am tired of it already...They say there is more coming....


Gonna snow 5 of the next 6 days in central Missouri. Its a case of be careful what you wish for
Quoting overwash12:
How does anyone on the planet know what the climate is supposed to be? The Earth has been heating up and cooling down for how long now? We can only briefly look back at accurate records(140 years or so) since records been kept. 


Welcome to the blog, newbie
In the past 96 hours, just 13 record daily low or low maximum temperatures have been set or tied in the U.S.--as opposed to an astounding 385 record highs or high minimums. Pretty incredible, really, though things may start to moderate somewhat over the next several days as another batch of deep cold moves across the upper Midwest.

Quoting greentortuloni:


Welcome to the blog, newbie
Oh,I have been on for awhile, usually just a lurker though. Thank-you for the welcome!
global warming schmobol warming, i'm ready for the summer time. Give me heat.
Quoting overwash12:
How does anyone on the planet know what the climate is supposed to be? The Earth has been heating up and cooling down for how long now? We can only briefly look back at accurate records(140 years or so) since records been kept. 


The point is that there IS evidence that the climate is changing, that global temperatures are rising and at a greater rate than we would have anticipated. Even a minor change in temperature, up OR down will result in agricultural failure and with some 7 billion of us around that is unacceptable.

Neither side can prove conclusively that they are right, the deniers or the believers. Does it really matter whether this is a natural cycle or something we, as the mass consumers of everything, have caused?

The point is, if we do nothing at all, the deniers will feel very stupid in 50 years or so when they're starving to death in the middle of the great Midwest desert, somewhere near present day Columbus, Ohio...if we do something and they're right, in 50 years we have what, a cleaner planet with more arrable land? That's a no brainer to me, but maybe I'm missing something here....argument and hyperbole for the sake of hearing your own voice? Seems pointless to me...just saying

Quoting HIPPOCRITT:
global warming schmobol warming, i'm ready for the summer time. Give me heat.
Yes,I agree. The funny thing is the human body was not designed for the tundra!
Oh, well welcome in from the lurk.

I said 'newbie' because of your comment on the whole only 140 years question.. the way you phrased it i assumed you hadn't seen this question debated ad nauseum... hence the 'newbie' comment. No offense meant, I just thought it was funny.
(wait till he asks about curve vs recurve)

Quoting Floodman:


The point is that there IS evidence that the climate is changing, that global temperatures are rising and at a greater rate than we would have anticipated. Even a minor change in temperature, up OR down will result in agricultural failure and with some 7 billion of us around that is unacceptable.

Neither side can prove conclusively that they are right, the deniers or the believers. Does it really matter whether this is a natural cycle or something we, as the mass consumers of everything, have caused?

The point is, if we do nothing at all, the deniers will feel very stupid in 50 years or so when they're starving to death in the middle of the great Midwest desert, somewhere near present day Columbus, Ohio...if we do something and they're right, in 50 years we have what, a cleaner planet with more arrable land? That's a no brainer to me, but maybe I'm missing something here....argument and hyperbole for the sake of hearing your own voice? Seems pointless to me...just saying
I agree totally,we should be better caretakers of the Earth.

Quoting aquak9:
(wait till he asks about curve vs recurve)
Curve is what we see on some females,recurve is also seen on some females.


On the lighter side...
Stupid lady is going to try to sue the mall now. Hey lady if your stupid and texting at the same time, that's your problem.
I feel bad for watching that twice. I bet it was gross frothy mall fountain water too, that when the mice were not busy urinating into, people were spitting in it.
We as humans will always have to adapt to a changing world. Whether it be increasing or decreasing temperature or over-population. There are 6.8 billion people on this planet now and in 50 years how many will there be? At some point something will have to give. Its scary to think about, but when the world has 12 billion people will we be able to feed everyone? We cant even do it now. We can spend billions on 'climate research' or argue all day long about the effects of 'global warming' but it doesnt put food into starving peoples mouths or put roofs over homeless peoples heads. I'm just 1 person out of 6,894,749,387 and so are ya'll!
Big smear campaign for JB I see.

I like the guy and think he does a good job. Where does it say that a met has to always be right? He goes after the low-percentage longrange forcasts that most mets won't dare try. Big brass ones is whats he's got.
Quoting HIPPOCRITT:
We as humans will always have to adapt to a changing world. Whether it be increasing or decreasing temperature or over-population. There are 6.8 billion people on this planet now and in 50 years how many will there be? At some point something will have to give. Its scary to think about, but when the world has 12 billion people will we be able to feed everyone? We cant even do it now. We can spend billions on 'climate research' or argue all day long about the effects of 'global warming' but it doesnt put food into starving peoples mouths or put roofs over homeless peoples heads. I'm just 1 person out of 6,894,749,387 and so are ya'll!
Mother Nature has a way of controlling pests on this Earth. She does it with Floods, famine, earthquakes, heatwaves, tsunamis and let us not forget, diseases. With the travel we do on this planet, can you imagine how fast something like bubonic plague could spread around the world? Yes, I am worried about the future of this planet. Yes, I try to make a difference. Will my effort be enough? Only time will tell. I can't sit on the sidelines and do nothing.
Smear? - read the link I posted. 

Im sorry Doug I did not know you were such a big Bastardi fan. Do you want me to take it down? I dont want to upset you because I can see you feel strongly about him.
will "the eddie" go? we will know shortly.
Now other than the climate stuff I actually like the guy. He is entertaining and not afraid to jump right into it. 

Joe Bastardi
If nothing else you can see why he does like he does.
not an eddie day too small cancelled
Quoting kwgirl:
Mother Nature has a way of controlling pests on this Earth. She does it with Floods, famine, earthquakes, heatwaves, tsunamis and let us not forget, diseases. With the travel we do on this planet, can you imagine how fast something like bubonic plague could spread around the world? Yes, I am worried about the future of this planet. Yes, I try to make a difference. Will my effort be enough? Only time will tell. I can't sit on the sidelines and do nothing.


I was thinking the exact same thing when he or she wrote that. lol
It was a thoughtful comment.
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Big smear campaign for JB I see.

I like the guy and think he does a good job. Where does it say that a met has to always be right? He goes after the low-percentage longrange forcasts that most mets won't dare try. Big brass ones is whats he's got.
I think Joe is alright too....:)
A very illustrative paper demonstrating that when scientists have preconceived notions, they can tailor their research to reach those outcomes. Also describes why we need complete open-source, raw data access to any of these research projects. As an aside, I read that Hansen has been hit with FOIA requests and, of course, is fighting them.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/13/101213fa_fact_lehrer?currentPage=5
Quoting cat5hurricane:

Well Reed, as it goes here. Many staunch AWG supporters only endorse all evidence that positively point to humans being the absolute cause of the warming theory. If one has an opinion and/or happens to express evidence that says otherwise, they are ostracized. It's their way or the highway. They are right, and you are wrong. Period.

For some, they can't see past their egos. Instead of keeping an open mind to the subject that allow different opinions, they believe only what they want to believe.

But I don't let that stop me from posting, and neither should you or anyone else who may share similar views other than an absolutely-positively AWG mindset.


Many staunch AGW supporters are staunch AGW supporters because of the overwhelming amount of peer-reviewed research on the matter. It has nothing to do with what they want to believe.

Skeptics, real skeptics, do realize that the climate is changing, but are skeptical about how much it will change and the impacts associated with it. Most real skeptics also admit that we are at least contributing to the problem, though some do not agree that we are the primary driver. The research paper that came out not to long ago about isotope ratios of CO2 indicating that most new CO2 in the atmosphere came from fossil fuel combustion convinced many skeptics that our contribution is not minimal.

The deniers are staunchly against any sort of climate change happening, human induced or not, because they want to be. They don't have peer-reviewed research or data to back up their claims. Their belief is just that, a belief. They have no climate models runs that can show that the warming we are experiencing is just a fluke. And anything that has been put forward has been ripped to shreds by the climate community at large. Instead of producing vetted research and data to back their claims, they claim conspiracy and perpetuate well debunked myths and lies as facts to back their case.

I respect real skeptics because they do actual research and help further scientific research. They DO have open minds, and consider new information. Deniers provide nothing.

Honestly, I would be very happy if AGW wasn't happening. It would be one less thing for future generations to worry about. But I follow the science. So do many others. The day when peer-reviewed research shows that theory of AGW is incorrect, I'll change my mind. But that hasn't happened yet, nor do I expect it to.
Quoting Cochise111:
A very illustrative paper demonstrating that when scientists have preconceived notions, they can tailor their research to reach those outcomes. Also describes why we need complete open-source, raw data access to any of these research projects. As an aside, I read that Hansen has been hit with FOIA requests and, of course, is fighting them.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/13/101213fa_fact_lehrer?currentPage=5

"Hit" is too light a word. No, Hansen--like many climate scientists--has been "harassed" by repeated FOIA requests, part of the ongoing witch hunt being carried out by parties increasingly desperate to find something, anything, to point at and say, "Aha! We told you AGWT was a scam!"

What I find particularly hypocritical and despicable about the whole FOIA onslaught is that the corporate and political groups bankrolling the witch hunt go to ridiculous lengths to hide own their sources of funding, obviously fearing an outcry from the masses they've so easily misled about the whole thing.
Quoting Xyrus2000:
I respect real skeptics because they do actual research and help further scientific research. They DO have open minds, and consider new information. Deniers provide nothing.

True that. Skepticism is a healthy and normal part of science and the never-ending search for scientific truth. But most GW "skeptics" aren't interested in that truth; they're interested only in protecting the anti-GW points-of-view they've developed, and if that means blocking others on that search for truth, well, then, that's what they'll do. Call them what you will, but they're not skeptics.
Quoting Neapolitan:

True that. Skepticism is a healthy and normal part of science and the never-ending search for scientific truth. But most GW "skeptics" aren't interested in that truth; they're interested only in protecting the anti-GW points-of-view they've developed, and if that means blocking others on that search for truth, well, then, that's what they'll do. Call them what you will, but they're not skeptics.


Nea, you're killing me... Apparently, your hypocrisy knows no bounds. How can you type this with a straight face?

pot meet kettle
Quoting Cochise111:
A very illustrative paper demonstrating that when scientists have preconceived notions, they can tailor their research to reach those outcomes. Also describes why we need complete open-source, raw data access to any of these research projects. As an aside, I read that Hansen has been hit with FOIA requests and, of course, is fighting them.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/13/101213fa_fact_lehrer?currentPage=5


First, the paper hasn't made it through review yet, so making any claims based on it is assumption at best.

Second, completely open research won't ever be a reality, but not for the reason you think. Corporate interest are very much opposed to open research as it has the potential for releasing trade secrets and future goals to competitors. For publicly funded scientists, it's also a concern that someone else could come in and steal their thunder (thus their funding).

Post-research, there's no reason for research funded by public dollars should not be made entirely open. As opposed to what the mantra is on the denier side of things, a lot of the climate models are open-source and several sites host their data sets for public consumption as (mostly for other scientists to use).

BUT...

If you want the source code and data and other materials to made available to the public, then you better be willing to pay for it. Weather and climate data sets can easily climb into the gigabyte realm and higher depending on model resolution. And that's just bandwidth. There's also system administration, database administration, server hardware and maintenance, power costs, etc. . What about support? Will this service also provide instructions in help for people who want to utilize the software? That can also add up real fast. Regardless, it's not exactly cheap, especially if every code project and their related data are going to be hosted.

How do you vet people who claim they can't reproduce the results, or worse, contradict the results? Do we allow every naive person who has a vendetta against that particular brand of science to be able to question the results? And if so, how is that going to be paid for/handled? Do we expect an unfunded expert to be sitting at the beck and call of the public to answer every idiotic claim or problem put forth from the public? Or will they be made to submit a paper about their results? Will they need to pay for the peer review process?

There are a lot of questions that would need to be answered before putting such a system into place, and of course a fair chunk of change would need to be provided.

In regards to FOIA's, they were designed to be used for a specific purpose, not as a weapon. FOIA's are a PITA, which is actually one of the main reason why NOBODY likes to receive them. It can take weeks or months time and effort to respond to an FOIA. I should point out that the cost is born by the receiving party with no penalty for the requester. The worse that can happen to the requester is that they get their request rejected, so there is no penalty against filing as many requests as they want. So someone like McIntyre can submit multiple requests and effectively cripple a research group while also costing them a lot of money to boot.

Now this would be a different story if researchers didn't publish their research and results while making wild claims. However, the do publish, and respond to other experts in their field when asked for materials. However, certain individuals have made themselves very irritating, which of course makes the researchers less likely to respond.
Nea, you're killing me... Apparently, your hypocrisy knows no bounds. How can you type this with a straight face?

pot meet kettle


Ding Ding!!
Wait for it...
I find it funny the first post i put on this article "There is no such thing as Global Warning" is a violation of the community standards. LOL.
Nobody is forcing me to live here, other than my wife of course, but here is the short term outlook for my neck of the woods. Disgusting.
MINNEAPOLIS - Dangerously cold temperatures are settling over Minnesota with wind chill readings that can cause frostbite to exposed skin in a matter of minutes.

Forecasters say daytime temperatures may not make it above zero in northern Minnesota. Friday morning lows could drop to minus-30 and colder from the Iron Range north.

In International Falls, for example, the overnight low is expected to be around minus-36. Brainerd may see minus-27 and Duluth minus-25.

In the Twin Cities, the low from Thursday night into Friday morning will be around minus-15, with minus-20 readings possible in suburban areas.

The artic air will be escorted by by winds that could produce wind chills as low as minus-30 in the Twin Cities area and minus-50 up north.

"I held her close , I kissed her our last kiss"
"I found the love that I knew I had missed"
Quoting ssmate:
Nobody is forcing me to live here, other than my wife of course, but here is the short term outlook for my neck of the woods. Disgusting.
MINNEAPOLIS - Dangerously cold temperatures are settling over Minnesota with wind chill readings that can cause frostbite to exposed skin in a matter of minutes.

Forecasters say daytime temperatures may not make it above zero in northern Minnesota. Friday morning lows could drop to minus-30 and colder from the Iron Range north.

In International Falls, for example, the overnight low is expected to be around minus-36. Brainerd may see minus-27 and Duluth minus-25.

In the Twin Cities, the low from Thursday night into Friday morning will be around minus-15, with minus-20 readings possible in suburban areas.

The artic air will be escorted by by winds that could produce wind chills as low as minus-30 in the Twin Cities area and minus-50 up north.

OMG, how do people live and work in that type of weather? I thought at that cold of a temperature even cars don't work. Am I wrong? I have lived in the tropics all my life so I can't even imagine what that cold of a temperature would feel like. It is life threatening.
I posted this last night here and in my blog but as many of you have kids/live near the water ill post it again for your benefit:

Undercover Fish Testing Reveals Mercury at Three Times Federal Limits

The campaign explains that they "randomly selected 41 grocery stores in California to purchase fresh and frozen samples of swordfish, ahi tuna or yellowfin tuna, and salmon," which they then submitted to laboratory analysis. Their findings include the startling fact that more than a third of the grocery store fish studied had levels of methylmercury in excess of the the FDA do-not-sell limit of 1 part per million, with swordfish being by far the worst offender. In fact, only 6 of the 32 swordfish samples analyzed came in below 1 part per million, and one fish, purchased at a Ralph's in Los Angeles, had 3 parts per million.


It is probably a good idea not to eat these types of fish. Also all freshwater fish in the US is contaminated with mercury (in case you didnt know).

Mercury Contamination in Fish Nationwide

It is a shame that the earth has become so polluted and a good fraction of us are still here arguing for no efforts to improve that situation.

BTW:

If you think the EPA value is set too low, is "safe" or mercury isn't that toxic id read up on the matter.
Also as it came up in here yesterday - it looks as if the figures for solar forcing were too high. We are likely to see a correction in the long range models for new figures. Things are potentially worse, or I guess with lower values they could also be better, (?) we will see. This should however advance accuracy a good deal over the long run:


Improved Measurements of Sun to Advance Understanding of Climate Change

"Improved accuracies and stabilities in the long-term total solar irradiance record mean improved estimates of the sun's influence on Earth's climate," said Greg Kopp of the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics (LASP) of the University of Colorado Boulder.

The new, lower TSI value was measured by the LASP-built Total Irradiance Monitor (TIM) instrument on the NASA Solar Radiation and Climate Experiment (SORCE) spacecraft. Tests at a new calibration facility at LASP verify the lower TSI value. The ground-based calibration facility enables scientists to validate their instruments under on-orbit conditions against a reference standard calibrated by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Before the development of the calibration facility, solar irradiance instruments would frequently return different measurements from each other, depending on their calibration. To maintain a long-term record of the sun's output through time, scientists had to rely on overlapping measurements that allowed them to intercalibrate among instruments.

Kopp said, "The calibration facility indicates that the TIM is producing the most accurate total solar irradiance results to date, providing a baseline value that allows us to make the entire 32-year record more accurate.

"We are eager to see how this lower irradiance value affects global climate models, which use various parameters to reproduce current climate: incoming solar radiation is a decisive factor. An improved and extended solar data record will make it easier for us to understand how fluctuations in the sun's energy output over time affect temperatures, and how Earth's climate responds to radiative forcing."
JFLORIDA.I am sure you know I am not a fan of yours (not even close) (actually you are on the bottom of my list regarding the male ego)...Ok, back to the subject of fish....When you have the desire for a romantic fish dinner of Cod or Talapia...Please read where these fish were farmed , or raised,..DO NOT buy fish raised in CHINA....If you want to upchuck tonight, read how China raises these fish....Not to count the drywall or lead in toys, China has no sympathy in regards to selling "CRAP" to the USA.. Please be careful. And as for you JFLORIDA..I sensed a "glimmer" albeit small, of some intelligence
Quoting HIPPOCRITT:
I find it funny the first post i put on this article "There is no such thing as Global Warning" is a violation of the community standards. LOL.


LOL

Well that's the way of this "community". There are communities in the world that can legally stone a woman to death for removing her face mask & body cast outdoors...even if its 120 degrees out.
Ain't that sick Surfcropper
sick and ridiculous, yes
Let's not forget all the little kitties and puppies that died because of rat infested petfood from good ole China a few years back.

:(
onion rings...
I don't buy my onions from china
;)
dang, this used to be a fun place to visit
Quoting JFLORIDA:


I think some ignorance is spam, especially if you are arguing points proved irrelevant and incorrect several years ago. What purpose other than disrupting discussion do they serve?

Like now the pity ploy. How palin-ish of you.


haha...you just killed your point with the Palin shot..duh
The error of pointing to someone who environmentally behaves worse than you as justification for your actions should be self explanatory.

I wont even discus that other than to say toxins are cumulative in the environment and we do not have time for such unethical stalling.
Looks like you are losing JFLORIDA
I think some ignorance is spam

you know, I'm really tired of spam getting such a bad reputation... it's quite tasty broiled with some cheddar cheese and ortega chilis....
Oh, JF. We never have agreed 100% politically and we never will, I think. But I still love ya man.

Likening me to Palin is like likening yourself to a one-legged astronaught rabbi.

Thanks for the compliment though.
Like I posted however mercury contamination has been found in ALL American fish sampled recently.
Quoting pinehurstnc:
dang, this used to be a fun place to visit


It was....once.
palm did you ever check your mail
Palm.... CHECK YOUR MAIL.....
Quoting toddluck:
palm did you ever check your mail

Toddluck,..........I did thanks.Glad that I am not alone
this mercury contamination is serious.

we need to find this mad hatter that is dumping thermometers in the ocean...I suggest we use drones and buy the fuel for them from OPEC.
JFLORIDA...The waitress that I called Nicole is now replaced by Nick
I fail to see why you think it's appropriate to mention a person's sex when you discuss whether or not they are stubborn.  I think we all know males AND females who are guilty of being stubborn and/or always thinking they're right.  The derogatory nick-name you and your friends use reeks of blatant sexism and will only serve to perpetuate hostile feelings between the sexes.  Is that really what you want?

Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
JFLORIDA is one of those typical males that thinks he is always right............Me and my friends call the "THE SILVERBACKS" they beat their chest but that is all they get............Such a loser

1st time i seen this


URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GRAND FORKS ND
330 PM CST THU JAN 20 2011

...EXTREME COLD TEMPERATURES EXPECTED FOR PORTIONS OF NORTHWEST
MINNESOTA...

.HIGH PRESSURE WILL MOVE INTO NORTHWEST MINNESOTA ALLOWING
TEMPERATURES TO RAPIDLY FALL. LOW TEMPERATURES ARE EXPECTED TO BE
-30 TO -35 FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD. WINDS MAY INCREASE FRIDAY
MORNING AND PRODUCE HAZARDOUS WIND CHILL VALUES FOR A BRIEF PERIOD
OF TIME.

MNZ005-006-008-009-013>017-022>024-028-032-211500-
/O.NEW.KFGF.EC.W.0001.110121T0300Z-110121T1500Z/
ROSEAU-LAKE OF THE WOODS-EAST MARSHALL-NORTH BELTRAMI-PENNINGTON-
RED LAKE-EAST POLK-NORTH CLEARWATER-SOUTH BELTRAMI-MAHNOMEN-
SOUTH CLEARWATER-HUBBARD-EAST BECKER-WADENA-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...ROSEAU...BAUDETTE...NEWFOLDEN...
RED LAKE...THIEF RIVER FALLS...RED LAKE FALLS...FOSSTON...
BAGLEY...BEMIDJI...MAHNOMEN...LAKE ITASCA...PARK RAPIDS...
WOLF LAKE...WADENA
330 PM CST THU JAN 20 2011

...EXTREME COLD WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 9 PM THIS EVENING TO 9 AM
CST FRIDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND FORKS HAS ISSUED AN EXTREME
COLD WARNING...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 9 PM THIS EVENING TO 9 AM
CST FRIDAY.

* WINDS ARE EXPECTED TO BECOME CALM BY MIDNIGHT ALLOWING
TEMPERATURES TO RAPIDLY FALL.

* TEMPERATURE VALUES OF 30 TO 35 BELOW ZERO ARE EXPECTED DURING
MUCH OF THE OVERNIGHT HOURS.

* WINDS MAY INCREASE FRIDAY MORNING CAUSING HAZARDOUS WIND CHILL
VALUES FOR A BRIEF PERIOD OF TIME.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

AN EXTREME COLD WARNING MEAN THAT DANGEROUSLY LOW TEMPERATURES
ARE EXPECTED FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME. FROSTBITE AND
HYPOTHERMIA ARE LIKELY IF EXPOSED TO THESE TEMPERATURES...SO MAKE
SURE A HAT...FACEMASK...AND HEAVY GLOVES OR MITTENS ARE
AVAILABLE.

Quoting Surfcropper:


LOL

Well that's the way of this "community". There are communities in the world that can legally stone a woman to death for removing her face mask & body cast outdoors...even if its 120 degrees out.

That is the way of the community. A healthy online community works the same as human antibodies, swarming to oust every bacterial or viral threat. HIPPOCRITT's very first post in this thread--also her very first post as a member, as she signed up yesterday--was as obviously trollish a comment as one could make: silly, loud, unscientific, and intended only to provoke negative responses in others. So the community acted; the "antibodies" swarmed, and that comment was sent into the ether. There was obviously frustration both ways: HIPPOCRITT was frustrated over not getting the response she wanted, while the community was frustrated over yet another long-time troll adopting yet another handle not to add anything to the forum but merely to pull some immature little "prank".

So, yes, again, that's the way of this community--just as it should be.
Well thanks, at least, for not wasting too much of my time.  Your response clearly misses the point and you know it.  I can see that I won't get intelligent discussion out of you and will henceforth save my precious time for more worthy pursuits.  I'll stand proudly behind my comments on this blog and sign them with my real name.  You can continue spreading hatred and bigotry from behind your anonymous moniker.

Dave


Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
"Silverbacks are always ,100% males.I didn't make the rules"

Quoting HRinFM:
Go back to your middle school global warming experiments


Nobody likes him anyways.
687 You have to reason also it may not even be a woman. I may not even be a man for all anyone knows for sure. Ive noticed there are posters so fixed on arguing a political issues that after trying everything, honesty will also go out the window.

You will NEVER see that from me. The singular point of communication is to convey correct information. Argument reveals truth.

Even in the most uncivil situations I would never allow myself to also become so unreasonable. Besides what does it have to do with ANY valid facts or reasoning?

Unfortunately that argument has probably worked for that poster before on the less savvy elsewhere to disrupt and end discussion. Sexism in any form as an argument other than dealing with arguments based in sexism is inappropriate. It is otherwise Unreasonable and uncivil. Too many people have been harmed on all sides of that issue.

Using it as a argumentative ploy is reprehensible.
Do these people really think they'll change the other sides mind's?

People that are just lurking should make up their own mind using research on their own time not by what JFLORIDA posts or anybody that is a "denier" posts. There's only one way to figure something out and it's not by listening to other's.
Quoting HaloReachFan:


Nobody likes him anyways.


Well, that's not so true. I may not always agree with JF, but I still like him. :))
Quoting HaloReachFan:
There's only one way to figure something out and it's not by listening to other's.

I'll have to disagree. I do a lot of self-learning, but I find teachers to be absolutely invaluable.
People need to be more specific when discussing what is now called "Climate Change." The term only makes sense when discussing the theory of man-made Climate Change and the extent of its effects on the actual naturally-occurring climate cycles. (Though I guess it can be argued that since man's existence on Earth is inherently natural, any product of mankind's doing, whether it be elevated CO2 emissions or not, is likewise technically "natural" as well...) This is what the debate is actually about, man's effect on certain weather patterns, and this is, despite what many egotistical people on both sides of the debate may say, most definitely still an unproven science. Referring to "Climate Change" in terms of just "the changing of the climate" is almost redundant, given that the Earth's climate, by its very nature, is always changing.

That said, humans should be actively pursuing ways to provide cleaner energy to their civilization, regardless of its possible effects on the environment. A healthy earth is beneficial to everyone. Joe's claims that the Earth is cooling are just that: claims. Let the man have his opinion. e should take care of our planet regardless of whether it's cooling, warming, or just staying the same. Stop hating on Joe B and other so-called "deniers"....save the hate for the people who are unwilling to help clean the planet (ie. Big Oil). And to all the hypocrites who constantly point finger and name-call on the internet and elsewhere, but don't do your part.....just STFU.
Quoting swampliliy:


Well, that's not so true. I may not always agree with JF, but I still like him. :))


Genuine civility is always nice too! :) And quite reasonable.

At the end of the day (or week) I usually unban and unignore everyone!
Reprehensible and trollish.  I may appear naive in my attempts to bring civility to this blog, but I feel that it's important to give EVERYONE the benefit of the doubt, at least at first...

Of course, I'm smart enough to recognize a lost cause when I see one...

I had salmon for lunch today, so your posts about heavy metals in fish were timely.  I read up about methylmercury toxicity while I ate... I love irony.  :)



Quoting JFLORIDA:
Using it as a argumentative ploy is reprehensible.

oh my god


WOW! the new 18zs

Quoting Tazmanian:
oh my god


WOW! the new 18zs



The "superstorm?"
703 the thing is the people joe is convincing are in a position to help a huge number of others if they make reasonable choices based on the opposite conclusion.

I feel strongly they should make that decision based on valid argument and the best information available.













from the new 18z ouch
Halo, Neapolitan didn't suggest that you "should just listen to teachers over doing [your] own research"... he simply said that teachers were invaluable.  There's a difference between those two statements and I think you know it.

And, as someone who is pursuing teaching certification because of a genuine desire to help others, I find your "thank a teacher" comment to be overly cynical.  There ARE good people working in public schools.  There are bad teachers to be sure, but there are bad EVERYTHING, from accountants to zoologists.  That certainly doesn't justify dismissing all of them as useless.

Dave

Quoting HaloReachFan:


So I should just listen to teachers over doing my own research? That is what is wrong with the public education right there.

How many States are there in the U.S.A.?

Since you didn't answer that right you can thank a "teacher"

this cant be right
Quoting MrMixon:
Reprehensible and trollish.%uFFFD I may appear naive in my attempts to bring civility to this blog, but I feel that it's important to give EVERYONE the benefit of the doubt, at least at first...

Of course, I'm smart enough to recognize a lost cause when I see one...

I had salmon for lunch today, so your posts about heavy metals in fish were timely.%uFFFD I read up about methylmercury toxicity while I ate... I love irony.%uFFFD :)



Quoting JFLORIDA:



lol no sorry about that! At least it wasn't during lunch and some salmon can have surprisingly low mercury levels. sometimes.

Dont give up! cyl.
Quoting HaloReachFan:


Well when you've seen what "these" people are capable of then you wouldn't like them. ;)


If you care- FYI, we all have good and bad days and moods on here. Most of what I've seen on this site is people react as they are treated. If you show a little respect, whether you agree or not, you'll get respect.

Categories such as "these people" are offensive to me and tends to show me a picture of someone's mindset and principles. Not someone I want to spend time my time on.

Just don't like to see blanket generalizations loosely thrown around- that's indicative to me of a bigoted mindset. Not very constructive to the blog.

My two cents, for what it's worth.

Quoting swampliliy:


If you care- FYI, we all have good and bad days and moods on here. Most of what I've seen on this site is people react as they are treated. If you show a little respect, whether you agree or not, you'll get respect.

Categories such as "these people" are offensive to me and tends to show me a picture of someone's mindset and principles. Not someone I want to spend time my time on.

Just don't like to see blanket generalizations loosely thrown around- that's indicative to me of a bigoted mindset. Not very constructive to the blog.

My two cents, for what it's worth.

Quoting JFLORIDA:


Ahhhhh the inevitable invocation of Hitler

No actually Hitler argued unreasonable assumptions in civility. The Nazis used elective process to gain power through a series of political ploys and propaganda plays - unreasonable arguments in themselves but executed under the guise of civility. They always portrayed themselves as victims of incivility. Thats a unifying factor of their rise.

Millions were marched to their deaths in one of the most unreasonable yet civil exercises in history. Their final moments were horrifically uncivil but that was delayed to their last moments and out of sight of most onlookers. The inevitable result of most if not all extremely unreasonable argument in that (truth) justice has been left to chance. It usually doesn't work out well for someone.

Nice try, but thank you for the further vivid illustration of a argument on civility/reason I have been resolving lately.
As do you, arguing "unreasonable assumptions" in a civil manner. Let go of the rhetoric.......
Quoting JFLORIDA:
703 the thing is the people joe is convincing are in a position to help a huge number of others if they make reasonable choices based on the opposite conclusion.

I feel strongly they should make that decision based on valid argument and the best information available.


I understand where you're coming from.

I just believe that it is not Joe's responsibility to convince his listeners that his beliefs are always true-rather, he's paid to have an opinion, to be a devil's advocate, if you will. It's the responsibility of the listeners to get the facts before creating their own opinions.

I'm aware there are many weak-minded "sheeple" that automatically take everything said to them from the media as truth. The blame should be put on these people, not on mainstream opinions or "shakey science."

Educating oneself should always be priority #1.
You'll probably understand now Swamp.
Interesting feature spinning up SE of Brownsville, TX on visible, moving out into the Gulf.
Technically the believers attack the deniers posts when they post something from a guy who used to work for big oil or somehow has connections to them. Yet they post information from people who generally work for the government who are told to say Global Warming is happening and it is our fault.

From what I've seen the Earth looks like it is warming but to blame Humans on this is irresponsible and just a scape goat.
Even has an eye!!
That looks pretty intense, Taz.  My ignorance is going to show here, but is a 984 mb central pressure lower than average for this time of year?
More yapping again today about GW. You guys sound like used car salesmen, trying to sell your same junky theories. But nobody has solutions. I have been pushing the all out nuclear power construction program which if initiated now could meet all CO2 reduction levels to break the back of GW. A few brave souls have backed my plan. The rest of you including Dr M have no viable solutions except taxes and such on coal plants. And I bet most of you drive pickups and SUVs.
I'm curious why you think government employees are "told to say Global Warming is happening and it's our fault."  I mean, is this something you've read somewhere?  The USGS, NOAA, NCAR, etc. will get funding whether AGW exists or not because we, as a country, have decided that it's important to study things like geology, oceans, and the atmosphere regardless of which direction temperatures might be going.


Quoting HaloReachFan:
Yet they post information from people who generally work for the government who are told to say Global Warming is happening and it is our fault.
Quoting HaloReachFan:
Technically the believers attack the deniers posts when they post something from a guy who used to work for big oil or somehow has connections to them. Yet they post information from people who generally work for the government who are told to say Global Warming is happening and it is our fault.

From what I've seen the Earth looks like it is warming but to blame Humans on this is irresponsible and just a scape goat.


Maybe....but maybe not.

Are you willing to risk the Earth's future on a mere opinion?

Look at it this way:

If man is, to at least some extent, changing the naturl cycles of climate, then taking steps to produce cleaner energy and lessen pollution can help moderate this shift, and potentially save lives.

If man's activity has no major effect on the climate, than reducing pollution and creating cleaner energy can only have positive long-term effects on human civilization. (We're gonna run out of fossil fuels sooner or later, anyway, so we might as well get a head start.)

I see it as a Win-Win.

This doesn't mean humans are necessarily affecting the climate, and anyone who thinks they know the answer FOR SURE is simply egotistical, given the lack of accurate historical weather data and the uncertainties involves in historical climate modeling.
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
More yapping again today about GW. You guys sound like used car salesmen, trying to sell your same junky theories. But nobody has solutions. I have been pushing the all out nuclear power construction program which if initiated now could meet all CO2 reduction levels to break the back of GW. A few brave souls have backed my plan. The rest of you including Dr M have no viable solutions except taxes and such on coal plants. And I bet most of you drive pickups and SUVs.


I knew it wouldn't be long before you expressed you're pure opinion on the matter,

Heres my perfect opinionated based answer - thats not true.

Both are equally valid argued form many perspectives so to save a lot of time lets not argue opinion.

Argue it from a scientific perspective based in fact and lets see how far you get.
Quoting HRinFM:
As do you, arguing "unreasonable assumptions" in a civil manner. Let go of the rhetoric.......




???

Rhetoric is the art of using language to communicate effectively and persuasively. It involves three audience appeals: logos, pathos, and ethos.

You mean ditch the pathos and ethos? After Hitler was brought up?

Why did you bring up the most extreme case if you did not wish to discus it in context?
Why is AGW not Scientific Law? yet legislative laws back up the theory to make it seem like scientific law. Strange thing about science...everything is science; politics is a science, manipulation is a science, even lying is a science.



I know I probably shouldn't, but OK, I give... which laws are you referring to?

Quoting Surfcropper:
Why is AGW not Scientific Law? yet legislative laws back up the theory to make it seem like scientific law. Strange thing about science...everything is science; politics is a science, manipulation is a science, even lying is a science.




Anyway deniers no real arguments out of you today as usual. Hopefully more referenced and reasoned posts will follow.


BTW If anyone would like to discus critical theory, especially as related to Postmodern politics and aesthetics I, at worst, at least have a working knowledge of Marxist and Feminist theory moving into Identity Theory, through Relational Aesthetics and beyond.

Of course I could always improve my knowledge through reasoned argument on this, but I think that would be more of a topic of conversation in my own blog.

So bring it on - lol.
google it!
729 thats going to be excruciating.
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
More yapping again today about GW. You guys sound like used car salesmen, trying to sell your same junky theories. But nobody has solutions. I have been pushing the all out nuclear power construction program which if initiated now could meet all CO2 reduction levels to break the back of GW. A few brave souls have backed my plan. The rest of you including Dr M have no viable solutions except taxes and such on coal plants. And I bet most of you drive pickups and SUVs.


I back nuclear big time. Dr. Hansen of NASA does too. Bill Gates is pouring millions into this.

I drive an American hybrid sedan and my electric use is offset with solar panels. What is obvious is only about 20% of the houses in the neighborhood are well suited for panels, however.
Oh come on Surf, YOU were the one who brought it up... I just wanted clarification.  I'm sure you had something in mind when you made that statement - which law should I google?

Quoting Surfcropper:

google it!

anyone in the mood for some onion rings?
I'm not exactly sure why, but it felt appropriate :)

WU blog training?????
Quoting NRAamy:
anyone in the mood for some onion rings?

I prefer fries, but what the heck. Hit me up.
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
More yapping again today about GW. You guys sound like used car salesmen, trying to sell your same junky theories. But nobody has solutions. I have been pushing the all out nuclear power construction program which if initiated now could meet all CO2 reduction levels to break the back of GW. A few brave souls have backed my plan. The rest of you including Dr M have no viable solutions except taxes and such on coal plants. And I bet most of you drive pickups and SUVs.


Making money we can reduce 22% of US carbon emissions (1.3 GT/Y):

Abatement curve

You have to wonder what is in the water all politicians drink. Many Republicans have been attacking CFLs as of late and in the rather pathetic budget reductions (250 billion a year... like that will really help) they propose there is one program that is targetted is Energy Star (one of the few government programs I actually like).

I have done my lookbacks of the CFLs and yes they have saved me real money and a quick payout.

I must admit that the American public seems rather slow to move on energy efficiency for some reason... they seem to have money to burn... so time for a carbon tax... yes, excise taxes are Constitutional.

Oh, and this plan that came out today is cutting 530 million in weatherization for the poor while leaving in 5 billion a year LIHEAP subsidies (we need to get rid of any oil subsidies by the government and LIHEAP is the only one I can identify for heating oil).

The 530 million is money well spent... except in Texas.

There was unused weatherization assistance money in Texas and it was thrown into the middle class appliance rebate program that occurred at the end of last year.

Just think about it... 22% of the carbon in this country can be eliminated by doing things that save money!
Fries, and not onion rings, what! But there is scientific evidence that onion rings are better than fries.


Quoting cat5hurricane:

I prefer fries, but what the heck. Hit me up.
onion rings outrank fries any day of the week.....
Quoting MagneticCrotchet:
Fries, and not onion rings, what! But there is scientific evidence that onion rings are better than fries.



As long as it's not junk science, fine ;)
hahahahahahaha!

:)
The daily low max taste test over the last 50 years shows that fries have been declining since the fryer minimum back in '83. That's the year hamburgular almost got one over on the fry guys.

Heres the evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFO9lv_T6EA

Quoting cat5hurricane:

As long as it's not junk science, fine ;)
Mag.... awesome research skills.... you should post more often....

:)
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Anyway deniers no real arguments out of you today as usual. Hopefully more referenced and reasoned posts will follow.


BTW If anyone would like to discus critical theory, especially as related to Postmodern politics and aesthetics I, at worst, at least have a working knowledge of Marxist and Feminist theory moving into Identity Theory, through Relational Aesthetics and beyond.

Of course I could always improve my knowledge through reasoned argument on this, but I think that would be more of a topic of conversation in my own blog.

So bring it on - lol.
You must learn to source your arguments. Everything you have just stated is purely your opinion, and is inherently untrue. If you wish to engage in reasonable debate on this blog you must first discipline your mind and learn how to properly reason your arguments. Perhaps some courses at the local community college would teach you the scientific method. "Garbage in, hamburger out" as Einstein used to say.
Quoting EnergyMoron:


I back nuclear big time. Dr. Hansen of NASA does too. Bill Gates is pouring millions into this.

I drive an American hybrid sedan and my electric use is offset with solar panels. What is obvious is only about 20% of the houses in the neighborhood are well suited for panels, however.
Good for you. We are on the same page.
wouldn't tunnels solve all of our problems?
Quoting MagneticCrotchet:
Fries, and not onion rings, what! But there is scientific evidence that onion rings are better than fries.




No! you are just a denier! I have graphs and peer reviews that support overwhelming evidence for fries being better!

I am sick of people like you and your "Anti Science", you bask in your ignorance and lack of ability to judge your own skills and understanding of true science itself!!!!

lololololool :)
jed....hahahahahahaha!

:)
Because there is no such thing as a scientific law.

Quoting Surfcropper:
Why is AGW not Scientific Law? yet legislative laws back up the theory to make it seem like scientific law. Strange thing about science...everything is science; politics is a science, manipulation is a science, even lying is a science.



Quoting johnbone:
(Though I guess it can be argued that since man's existence on Earth is inherently natural, any product of mankind's doing, whether it be elevated CO2 emissions or not, is likewise technically "natural" as well...)


Well, that is one way to claim that it is natural. On the other hand, would you want this to happen, if we had lived back then and oxygen was toxic to us?

The Great Oxygenation Event (GOE), also called the oxygen catastrophe or oxygen crisis or Great Oxidation, was the appearance of free oxygen (O2) in Earth's atmosphere. This major environmental change happened around 2.4 billion years ago.

Photosynthesis was producing oxygen both before and after the GOE. The difference was that before the GOE, organic matter and dissolved iron chemically captured any free oxygen. The GOE was the point when these minerals became saturated and could not capture any more oxygen. The excess free oxygen started to accumulate in the atmosphere.

The rising oxygen levels may have wiped out a huge portion of the Earth's anaerobic inhabitants at the time. From their perspective it was a catastrophe (hence the name). Cyanobacteria were essentially responsible for what was likely the largest extinction event in Earth's history. Additionally the free oxygen combined with atmospheric methane, triggering the Huronian glaciation, possibly the longest snowball Earth episode ever.


Another way to put this - an oxygen rich atmosphere is not natural from a geological perspective since oxygen is quite reactive and would normally be bound up in minerals and water (but of course, modern life including humans wouldn't exist without it - that doesn't mean that it wasn't bad for those early lifeforms).
Then there is the fries argument.

And the people that cant tell the difference. Certainly they should decide the intricacies of world climate. What were we thinking.

An author who suggests that one act of serious wrongdoing does not differ from a minor offense commits the fallacy of moral equivalence.

False analogy is an informal fallacy applying to inductive arguments. It is often mistakenly considered to be a formal fallacy, but it is not, because a false analogy consists of an error in the substance of an argument (the content of the analogy itself), not an error in the logical structure of the argument.

In an analogy, two systems are shown to have common sub-functions and/or properties and therefore additional corresponding sub-functions and/or properties are proposed and shown to exist. This is repeated for all sub-functions until the analogy ultimately fails.
Formal fallacy

In philosophy, a formal fallacy is a pattern of reasoning that is always wrong. This is due to a flaw in the logical structure of the argument which renders the argument invalid. A formal fallacy is contrasted with an informal fallacy, which may have a valid logical form, but be false due to the characteristics of its premises, or its justification structure.


Informal fallacy

An informal fallacy is an argument whose stated premises fail to support their proposed conclusion.
How does a formal fallacy relate to the deniers who post phony articles and lists all the time JFLORIDA?
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
More yapping again today about GW. You guys sound like used car salesmen, trying to sell your same junky theories. But nobody has solutions. I have been pushing the all out nuclear power construction program which if initiated now could meet all CO2 reduction levels to break the back of GW. A few brave souls have backed my plan. The rest of you including Dr M have no viable solutions except taxes and such on coal plants. And I bet most of you drive pickups and SUVs.


Exactly which climate scientists are you listening to? You must be confusing climate scientists with enviro-nuts.

Many scientists back nuclear power as the best solution, especially thorium based reactors which are inherently fail-safe (not to mention there is enough thorium in the Earth's crust to last us 10,000 years).

Your plan isn't new, nor unheard of. France has shown it is completely workable (70%-80% of their power is from nuclear).

The problem isn't the soundness of nuclear energy. We have technology to deal with the wastes(breeder reactors). We have new reactor designs that are many times better than previous designs. We even have the possiblity of using new fuel sources (like thorium).

The problem is who we have opposing nuclear power, namely the entrenched energy corporations. The did a real good job FUDing nuclear energy to death in the 70's and 80's, and even got the enviro-crazies onboard with their fear mongering. With the current ridiculous regulations in place and the ban on breeder reactors, nuclear power plants are not economically viable to build.

Finally, even the way out there greenies are starting to see that switching to nuclear is a lot better than burning fossil fuels. However, you still have Big Energy Co. out there waiting to scare the death out of Joe Sixpack and Jane SoccerMom with TeH eVal n00kleears.
AMY! TAZ!

Thought I would say hello!
Quoting Xyrus2000:


Exactly which climate scientists are you listening to? You must be confusing climate scientists with enviro-nuts.

Many scientists back nuclear power as the best solution, especially thorium based reactors which are inherently fail-safe (not to mention there is enough thorium in the Earth's crust to last us 10,000 years).

Your plan isn't new, nor unheard of. France has shown it is completely workable (70%-80% of their power is from nuclear).

The problem isn't the soundness of nuclear energy. We have technology to deal with the wastes(breeder reactors). We have new reactor designs that are many times better than previous designs. We even have the possiblity of using new fuel sources (like thorium).

The problem is who we have opposing nuclear power, namely the entrenched energy corporations. The did a real good job FUDing nuclear energy to death in the 70's and 80's, and even got the enviro-crazies onboard with their fear mongering. With the current ridiculous regulations in place and the ban on breeder reactors, nuclear power plants are not economically viable to build.

Finally, even the way out there greenies are starting to see that switching to nuclear is a lot better than burning fossil fuels. However, you still have Big Energy Co. out there waiting to scare the death out of Joe Sixpack and Jane SoccerMom with TeH eVal n00kleears.
Yes, the environuts. There are plenty of them on this blog. And you're right. They are AGAINST the oil companies, but continue to prop them up by being tricked to fear nuclear power, which is very safe and totally nonpolluting. I live 5 miles from a nuclear plant and there has not been even a minor incident in 34 years.
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
Definition:
A reasoned troll.
A troll who tries to disguise his behavior behind pseudoscientific gibberish. He or she can be highly intelligent, but the true nature of their deep seated pathology will eventually reveal itself. Many are undiagnosed bipolar.


Speaking from experience? ;)
Quoting Xyrus2000:

...The problem is who we have opposing nuclear power, namely the entrenched energy corporations. The did a real good job FUDing nuclear energy to death in the 70's and 80's, and even got the enviro-crazies onboard with their fear mongering. With the current ridiculous regulations in place and the ban on breeder reactors, nuclear power plants are not economically viable to build.


plus 1

Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
Definition:
A reasoned troll.
A troll who tries to disguise his behavior behind pseudoscientific gibberish. He or she can be highly intelligent, but the true nature of their deep seated pathology will eventually reveal itself. Many are undiagnosed bipolar.


Lol now theres a argument. I know who you are.

Well before you make my ignore list - its obvious you really cant keep up when it comes to valid argument the truth or anything remotely useful or pleasant.

I mean I can be unpleasant I suppose to some but I make and effort to deliver valid and useful information.

You do it to deliver bad argument and untrue statements. I guess it seems funny but I have more intricate requirements there.

So really why would anyone ever want to listen to you? Excepting those that have a vested interest in making such arguments? I dont want information from them, of course, because its probably incorrect and I dont believe such ignorance could ever make a correct argument or express a correct opinion beyond what chance may initiate.

So id honestly be the same or better off, with respect to truth in discussing technical issues with my cat.

Before you dignify KrippleCreekFerry with answers : read his last five arguments. Also think about the handle.

Fiji Meteorological Services
Tropical Disturbance Summary
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 06F
9:00 AM FST January 21 2011
==================================

At 21:00 PM UTC, Tropical Depression 06F (1003 hPa) located at 13.7S 177.1W is reported as moving slowly. Position POOR based on multispectral visible/infrared/enhanced infrared imagery with animation and peripheral surface observations. Sea surface temperature is around 30C.

Overall organization has slightly improved past 12 hours. Convection has increased in the last 24 hours with new burst of deep convection to the east of the system. System lies under an upper diffluent region in a moderate sheared environment. Cyclonic circulation extends to 500 HPA.

Global models has picked up the system and gradually moves it southeast with some intensification.

The potential for this tropical depression to develop into a tropical cyclone in the next 24-48 hours is HIGH.
Fiji Meteorological Services
Tropical Disturbance Summary
TROPICAL DISTURBANCE 07F
9:00 AM FST January 21 2011
=====================================

At 21:00 PM UTC, Tropical Disturbance 07F (1000 hPa) located at 21.0S 161.1E is reported as moving southeast at 10 knots. Position POOR based on multispectral visible/infrared/enhanced infrared imagery with animation and peripheral surface observations. Sea surface temperature is around 30C.

Organization has not improved much in the last 12 hours. Convection is displaced to the east of the low level circulation center. System lies under an upper diffluent region in a moderately sheared environment. Cyclonic circulation extends up to 500 HPA.

Global models have picked up the system and gradually moves it southeastward with slight intensification.

The potential for this tropical disturbance to form into a tropical cyclone within the next 24-36 is MODERATE.
Quoting JFLORIDA:


Lol now theres a argument. I know who you are.

Well before you make my ignore list - its obvious you really cant keep up when it comes to valid argument the truth or anything remotely useful or pleasant.

I mean I can be unpleasant I suppose to some but I make and effort to deliver valid and useful information.

You do it to deliver bad argument and untrue statements. I guess it seems funny but I have more intricate requirements there.

So really why would anyone ever want to listen to you? Excepting those that have a vested interest in making such arguments? I dont want information from them, of course, because its probably incorrect and I dont believe such ignorance could ever make a correct argument or express a correct opinion beyond what chance may initiate.

So id honestly be the same or better off, with respect to truth in discussing technical issues with my cat.

JF, I was not talking about you. You made the association. And who am I?
Quoting Patrap:
The United Nations has appealed for emergency aid to help victims of flood-hit Sri Lanka.

At least 38 people have lost their lives and many others are still missing.

Crops have been severely damaged and thousands of people are now homesless.

Al Jazeera's Veronica Pedrosa reports from one of the worst hit districts.

That's amazing that it has rained there for nearly 40 days and 40 nights!
Quoting lightningbolt73:
That's amazing that it has rained there for nearly 40 days and 40 nights!


Buffalo NY had measurable snow for 53 consecutive days from November 1976 to January 1977.
Sure doesn't stop the Navy from putting nuclear power in new ships/subs they commission year after year. Defence never squanders efficiency. The public's private energy costs are severely squandered though, by design.

Shame



Surfcropper are you saying that the government is more energy efficient than the private sector? Sure sounds like it!
Quoting NRAamy:
jed....hahahahahahaha!

:)


hahaha I couldn't help it!

Remember when this blog consisted of mature individuals who had fun discussing weather the way friends would discuss it?

Now we have a never ending stream of people with egos the reach into the extremity of our solar system.
There was also a streak of 247 consecutive days of measurable rainfall from August 27, 1993 to April 30, 1994 at Kaneohe Ranch on the island of Oahu in Hawaii.

That's the longest streak I found, if you can find a longer consecutive streak of rainy days, go for it.
Quoting lightningbolt73:
That's amazing that it has rained there for nearly 40 days and 40 nights!


The first thing I thought of when I saw "40 days and 40 nights" was this:

Genesis 7:4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
I'd say it was early 2007 when the blogs made an irreversible decline.

Quoting Jedkins01:


hahaha I couldn't help it!

Remember when this blog consisted of mature individuals who had fun discussing weather the way friends would discuss it?

Now we have a never ending stream of people with egos the reach into the extremity of our solar system.
Quoting LoveStormsatNight:
Surfcropper are you saying that the government is more energy efficient than the private sector? Sure sounds like it!


However you look at it, we are all funding a new nuclear reactor to be put online soon. Its just going in a steel whale to sit off the Korean pennisula instead of on the outskirts of an American city that heaves with more energy needs.

Let's cram a new bill through congress called the Steve Austin Act. "We have the technology, we can rebuild him." Start clearing the land for some 21st century nukers! Clear, baby, Clear!
I have been gone for three days. Do you guys just cut and paste the same posts over and over?
Other than a few actual weather posts it's the same stuff.....and no one sold. Maybe that's because everyone is mostly just talking past each other.
Quoting LoveStormsatNight:
I'd say it was early 2007 when the blogs made an irreversible decline.



You've been a member since December 2010 hmm
Perhaps its you. I sure didnt miss your posts and no they are not the same. Actually the only argument that is the same day after day is that one.

And they really crashed too after 2007.

I wonder why people dont figure they can make their own blogs. How many funny youtubes has Dr M posted lately? Not that the occasional distraction isn't a nice break from the technical - but dont kill it with stupidity.

People dont understand ego - most of it is clandestinely advanced via some kind of self depreciating attempt at humor these days.

The ego claims here about others are usually by those making just stupid and irresponsible arguments constantly. And I mean constantly. Not by my opinion or anyones but by the arguments themselves.
Quoting Jedkins01:


hahaha I couldn't help it!

Remember when this blog consisted of mature individuals who had fun discussing weather the way friends would discuss it?

Now we have a never ending stream of people with egos the reach into the extremity of our solar system.


Hey, remember when this blog consisted of people who weren't passive aggressive and didn't insult people for correcting misinformation and lies?

It is not egotistical correct someone when they're wrong. Nor is it egotistical to correct FUD, misinformation, distortions, and outright lies.

How many times have you had to correct wishcasters, doomcasters, wobblecasters, etc.? Does that make you egotistical?

Some of the people on here don't even understand the fundamentals of physics, let alone weather or climate. Yet they think they know more than the combined scientific community and can claim dismissively that all the decades worth of research, data, and observations are nothing more than BS.

If that doesn't scream egotistical arrogance I don't know what does.
Quoting Xyrus2000:


Hey, remember when this blog consisted of people who weren't passive aggressive and didn't insult people for correcting misinformation and lies?

It is not egotistical correct someone when they're wrong. Nor is it egotistical correct FUD, misinformation, distortions, and outright lies.

How many times have you had to correct wishcasters, doomcasters, wobblecasters, etc.? Does that make you egotistical?

Some of the people on here don't even understand the fundamentals of physics, let alone weather or climate. Yet they think they know more than the combined scientific community and can claim dismissively that all the decades worth of research, data, and observations are nothing more than BS.

If that doesn't scream egotistical arrogance I don't know what does.


People with legitimate difficulty understanding or are seeking knowledge I try to NEVER be condescending or uncivil to. Under any circumstances. That would be a grievous error. If I don't know for sure or cannot state a valid answer i keep quiet and let others explain it then.

When I am corrected by a more knowledgeable poster, (stl, LSN, and skye frequently) I also accept it graciously and usually follow it up. I always make an effort to read the above blog at least twice if not more times while it is up.
Quoting Surfcropper:


However you look at it, we are all funding a new nuclear reactor to be put online soon. Its just going in a steel whale to sit off the Korean pennisula instead of on the outskirts of an American city that heaves with more energy needs.

Let's cram a new bill through congress called the Steve Austin Act. "We have the technology, we can rebuild him." Start clearing the land for some 21st century nukers! Clear, baby, Clear!
Some of the antinuclear crowd uses the argument that there is no place to safely store the waste for 100000 years. We had Yucca Mountain, as near perfect NATIONAL storage facility as we ever could get, and it was derailed by the extremists. Now we store the waste all over the country and that doesn't seem to bother people that much. We need to reauthorize YM and get moving with the nuclear program that was just gaining steam in the 70s.
Quoting JFLORIDA:


People with legitimate difficulty understanding or are seeking knowledge I try to NEVER be condescending or uncivil to. Under any circumstances. That would be a grievous error. If I don't know for sure or cannot state a valid answer i keep quiet and let others explain it then.

When I am corrected by a more knowledgeable poster, (stl, LSN, and skye frequently) I also accept it graciously and usually follow it up. I always make an effort to read the above blog at least twice if not more times while it is up.


Once again, look at your previous posts slaying anyone who does not see your point of view. Several of you Lumberjacks have pretty much made this blog a place of arrogance and aggression. I don't know if it is your inability to deal with your deficiencies relating to the basic principles of nature or biology, but you short tempered fellas got some issues for certain.

Perhaps you should take some of your own advice home with you. Gheeze !

Quoting LoveStormsatNight:
Surfcropper are you saying that the government is more energy efficient than the private sector? Sure sounds like it!


The military doesn't have to abide by the rules. However, you must realize most every modern device that you enjoy came from the military/space program. Sat tv, gps, cell phones, even microwaves and plastic. The private sector gets its "innovations" from the research and development of the government. Always has, they are the only ones with the money to invent new things. You can say Bill Gates or Steve Jobs made the computer, but really they just made it better. The first research was done by the government. Can you argue they waste money? Yes! Can you argue they don't know how to stop spending? Yes! However, many corps thrive on things the gov created! Just my 2 cents!
State of the Climate
Global Analysis
Annual 2010
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Climatic Data Center


Global Highlights

* For 2010, the combined global land and ocean surface temperature tied with 2005 as the warmest such period on record, at 0.62°C (1.12°F) above the 20th century average of 13.9°C (57.0°F). 1998 is the third warmest year-to-date on record, at 0.60°C (1.08°F) above the 20th century average.

* The 2010 Northern Hemisphere combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the warmest year on record, at 0.73°C (1.31°F) above the 20th century average. The 2010 Southern Hemisphere combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the sixth warmest year on record, at 0.51°C (0.92°F) above the 20th century average.

* The global land surface temperature for 2010 tied with 2005 as the second warmest on record, at 0.96°C (1.73°F) above the 20th century average. The warmest such period on record occurred in 2007, at 0.99°C (1.78°F) above the 20th century average.

* The global ocean surface temperature for 2010 tied with 2005 as the third warmest on record, at 0.49°C (0.88°F) above the 20th century average.

* In 2010 there was a dramatic shift in the El Niño–Southern Oscillation, which influences temperature and precipitation patterns around the world. A moderate-to-strong El Niño at the beginning of the year transitioned to La Niña conditions by July. At the end of November, La Niña was moderate-to-strong.

Please Note: The data presented in this report are preliminary. Ranks and anomalies may change as more complete data are received and processed. Effective with the July 2009 State of the Climate Report, NCDC transitioned to the new version (version 3b) of the extended reconstructed sea surface temperature (ERSST) dataset. ERSST.v3b is an improved extended SST reconstruction over version 2. This report uses the ERSST.v3b dataset to assess the entire year. Therefore, values for individual months of January-June presented in this report may differ slightly from those reported when ERSST.v2 was the operational dataset. For more information about the differences between ERSST.v3b and ERSST.v2 and to access the most current data, please visit NCDC's Global Surface Temperature Anomalies page.
Global Temperatures

The year 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year since records began in 1880. The annual global combined land and ocean surface temperature was 0.62°C (1.12°F) above the 20th century average. The range associated with this value is plus or minus 0.07°C (0.13°F). The 2010 combined land and ocean surface temperature in the Northern Hemisphere was also the warmest on record, while the combined land and ocean surface temperature in the Southern Hemisphere was the sixth warmest such period on record. The annual globally averaged land temperature was 0.96°C (1.73°F) above average, which tied with 2005 as the second warmest year record. The range associated with this value is plus or minus 0.11°C (0.20°F). The warmest year was 2007, at 0.99°C (1.78°F) above the 20th century average. The decadal global land and ocean average temperature anomaly for 2001–2010 was the warmest decade on record for the globe, with a surface global temperature of 0.56°C (1.01°F) above the 20th century average. This surpassed the previous decadal record (1991–2000) value of 0.36°C (0.65°F).

The El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is a periodic fluctuation in sea surface temperature (El Niño) and the air pressure of the overlying atmosphere (Southern Oscillation) across the equatorial Pacific Ocean, affecting weather patterns in many parts of the world. The year began in a moderate-to-stong warm (El Niño) phase. The globally averaged January ocean surface temperature was the second warmest on record, behind 1998—a year that also began with a strong El Niño. Temperature anomalies across the equatorial Pacific declined through the year, although the ENSO warm phase offically remained through April. The global ocean surface temperatures for the period January–April were the second warmest on record, behind 1998. In May, sea surface temperature anomalies in the eastern equatorial Pacific Ocean cooled below the El Niño threshold (0.5°C), signifying a return to ENSO-neutral conditions. By July, ENSO officially shifted into a cold (La Niña) phase as the eastern equatorial Pacific Ocean continued to cool to below-average temperatures. With La Niña firmly in place, and central and eastern equatorial Pacific Ocean temperatures continuing to cool, the globally averaged ocean temperature for the period September–November was tenth warmest on record. For the period January–December, the shift from a warm phase to a cold phase ENSO contributed to a globally averaged ocean surface temperature anomaly of 0.49°C (0.88°F) above the 20th century average, tying with 2005 as the third warmest such period on record. The range associated with this value is plus or minus 0.06°C (0.11°F). 2003 and 1998 tied for the warmest years on record, at 0.51°C (0.92°F) above average. According to NOAA's Climate Prediction Center (CPC), La Niña was expected to peak during the end of 2010 into early 2011 and last at into the Northern Hemisphere spring 2011 with a lesser intensity.

2010 Global Significant Weather and Climate Events
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
Some of the antinuclear crowd uses the argument that there is no place to safely store the waste for 100000 years. We had Yucca Mountain, as near perfect NATIONAL storage facility as we ever could get, and it was derailed by the extremists. Now we store the waste all over the country and that doesn't seem to bother people that much. We need to reauthorize YM and get moving with the nuclear program that was just gaining steam in the 70s.


The point is we don't even NEED a place like Yucca Mountain for waste storage. We have the technology to reprocess the wastes into more fuel. The French have been doing this for decades. As a bonus, when the waste can't be reprocessed any further, the remaining wastes have much shorter half-lives than 10,000 years.

Our populace is not all that well educated compared to other developed nations (and even some under developed ones) and has demonstrated a remarkable capacity for allowing fear to get them to act in their own worst interests. Despite all the benefits of nuclear power and all the good it could do, it's either going to take decades or some world class calamity before The People allow a sane energy policy involving nuclear power.
Pat,

I'm ready for spring. We are supposed to get some cold temps the next couple of days. As much as I hate the heat, I am not a cold weather person!
Quoting aquak9:


sorry jf, but I think he looks like hell now...but that always happens once ya quit the steroids.

ow
The wunderground Daily Downpour Podcast from Today

The Daily Downpour will talk about the next round of Winter weather in the East.
Wow, what a pic of the wolf moon from in front of the Tronoen Chapel in Brittany, France, from yesterday. From here http://spaceweather.com/




out>>> to catch up on my papers :) >>>
Im a tad tired of the 20's and 30-40's myself..

Spring comes earlier every year now so the wait will be less,
Quoting Xyrus2000:


The point is we don't even NEED a place like Yucca Mountain for waste storage. We have the technology to reprocess the wastes into more fuel. The French have been doing this for decades. As a bonus, when the waste can't be reprocessed any further, the remaining wastes have much shorter half-lives than 10,000 years.

Our populace is not all that well educated compared to other developed nations (and even some under developed ones) and has demonstrated a remarkable capacity for allowing fear to get them to act in their own worst interests. Despite all the benefits of nuclear power and all the good it could do, it's either going to take decades or some world class calamity before The People allow a sane energy policy involving nuclear power.


Folks, I suggest that you all go out onto the net and read about what France is doing.

It aint near what Master X is saying, not by a long shot.

The potential might be there, yet, even they admit that there are many hurdles to overcome.

Like I said, check it out for yourself and you decide.


Quoting Xyrus2000:


The point is we don't even NEED a place like Yucca Mountain for waste storage. We have the technology to reprocess the wastes into more fuel. The French have been doing this for decades. As a bonus, when the waste can't be reprocessed any further, the remaining wastes have much shorter half-lives than 10,000 years.


Indeed, the reason why conventional reactors produce so much waste is because they only use about 0.1% of the available energy from fission:



Also, since safety is concern:

Integral Fast Reactor

In traditional light water reactors (LWRs) the core must be maintained at a high pressure to keep the water liquid at high temperatures. In contrast, since the IFR is a liquid metal cooled reactor, the core could operate at close to ambient pressure, dramatically reducing the danger of a loss of coolant accident. The entire reactor core, heat exchangers and primary cooling pumps are immersed in a pool of liquid sodium, making a loss of primary coolant extremely unlikely. The coolant loops are designed to allow for cooling through natural convection, meaning that in the case of a power loss or unexpected reactor shutdown, the heat from the reactor core would be sufficient to keep the coolant circulating even if the primary cooling pumps were to fail.

The IFR also has passive safety advantages as compared with conventional LWRs. The fuel and cladding are designed such that when they expand due to increased temperatures, more neutrons would be able to escape the core, thus reducing the rate of the fission chain reaction. In other words, an increase in the core temperature will act as a feedback mechanism that decreases the core power. This attribute is known as a negative temperature coefficient of reactivity. Most LWRs also have negative reactivity coefficients; however, in an IFR, this effect is strong enough to stop the reactor from reaching core damage without external action from operators or safety systems. This was demonstrated in a series of safety tests on the prototype.

Liquid sodium presents safety problems because it ignites spontaneously on contact with air and can cause explosions on contact with water. To reduce the risk of explosions following a leak of water from the steam turbines, the IFR design (as with other sodium-cooled fast reactors) includes an intermediate liquid-metal coolant loop between the reactor and the steam turbines. The purpose of this loop is to ensure that any explosion following accidental mixing of sodium and turbine water would be limited to the secondary heat exchanger and not pose a risk to the reactor itself.

The available fuel metals were never separated from the plutonium, and therefore there was no direct way to use the fuel metals in nuclear weapons. Also, plutonium never had to leave the site, and thus was far less open to unauthorized diversion.

Another important benefit of removing the long half-life transuranics from the waste cycle is that the remaining waste becomes a much shorter-term hazard. After the actinides (reprocessed uranium, plutonium, and minor actinides) are recycled, the remaining radioactive waste isotopes are fission products, with half-life of 90 years (Sm-151) or less or 211,100 years (Tc-99) and more; plus any activation products from the non-fuel reactor components. (Tc-99 and Iodine-129 are also candidates for nuclear transmutation to stable isotopes by neutron capture.)

The result is that within 200 years, such wastes are no more radioactive than the ores of natural radioactive elements.
792. xcool
¿cómo te va
Quoting Xyrus2000:


The point is we don't even NEED a place like Yucca Mountain for waste storage. We have the technology to reprocess the wastes into more fuel. The French have been doing this for decades. As a bonus, when the waste can't be reprocessed any further, the remaining wastes have much shorter half-lives than 10,000 years.

Our populace is not all that well educated compared to other developed nations (and even some under developed ones) and has demonstrated a remarkable capacity for allowing fear to get them to act in their own worst interests. Despite all the benefits of nuclear power and all the good it could do, it's either going to take decades or some world class calamity before The People allow a sane energy policy involving nuclear power.
I am all for the Breeder Reactor.Unfortunately
in 1977 President Jimmy Carter signed an executive order that banned the reprocessing of nuclear fuel in the United States. The rationale was that the Plutonium could possibly be stolen, and terrorists might be able to use it to make atomic bombs. This decision has stopped us from further developing this technology while other countries use it successfully.
Quoting Patrap:
Im a tad tired of the 20's and 30-40's myself..

Spring comes earlier every year now so the wait will be less,


It also seems as if we get a major, unseasonable cold front during May and September, though. At least, that's been the case for the last several years.
95P
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
Some of the antinuclear crowd uses the argument that there is no place to safely store the waste for 100000 years. We had Yucca Mountain, as near perfect NATIONAL storage facility as we ever could get, and it was derailed by the extremists. Now we store the waste all over the country and that doesn't seem to bother people that much. We need to reauthorize YM and get moving with the nuclear program that was just gaining steam in the 70s.


Nuclear must be made part of a stop gap solution to our survival on this planet. Oil, coal etc all are finite resources that will run out. The only question is when.

Nuclear would be an excellent stop gap energy solution because it is essentially non-polluting. Well except for the vast amount of heat that must be dealt with as the high temperature water used to power the turbines which generate the energy is introduced into the environment and the nuclear based waste products as well.

Going nuclear will allow us time to perfect and distribute the new renewable energy systems world-wide. Once that is accomplished, or at least well on its way to completion it would then be time to dismantle the nuclear plants and thank the celestial powers that be for giving us the time we needed.

The race is on to accomplish that gargantuan task before the population reaches 18 billion by 2070. Then, in addition to our energy problem, we will be faced with feeding, clothing, housing and dealing with the attendant pollution from the bodily function from all those souls.

There is so much to do and so little time in which to do it.

There is too much at stake to let ourselves be distracted by such silliness as AGW. Those days of defrauding the public by stealing from them using taxes and such are over. CO2 - the greenhouse gas - will be the subject discussed around the breakfast table with people chuckling how wrongheaded and selfish it really was.


While outdated (1983, energy usage has grown enormously since then), this article claims that uranium would last for billions of years if we extracted it from seawater (and thorium is 4 times more abundant, albeit not in seawater):

How long will nuclear energy last?

Nuclear energy, assuming breeder reactors, will last for several billion years, i.e. as long as the sun is in a state to support life on earth.

Cohen calculates that we could take 16,000 tonne per year of uranium from seawater, which would supply 25 times the world's present electricity usage and twice the world's present total energy consumption. He argues that given the geological cycles of erosion, subduction and uplift, the supply would last for 5 billion years with a withdrawal rate of 6,500 tonne per year. The crust contains 6.5x10^13 tonne of uranium.
Quoting calusakat:


Nuclear must be made part of a stop gap solution to our survival on this planet. Oil, coal etc all are finite resources that will run out. The only question is when.

Nuclear would be an excellent stop gap energy solution because it is essentially non-polluting. Well except for the vast amount of heat that must be dealt with as the high temperature water used to power the turbines which generate the energy is introduced into the environment and the nuclear based waste products as well.

Going nuclear will allow us time to perfect and distribute the new renewable energy systems world-wide. Once that is accomplished, or at least well on its way to completion it would then be time to dismantle the nuclear plants and thank the celestial powers that be for giving us the time we needed.

The race is be on to accomplish that gargantuan task before the population reaches 18 billion by 2070. Then, in addition to our energy problem, we will be faced with feeding, clothing, housing and dealing with the attendant pollution from the bodily function from all those souls.

There is so much to do and so little time in which to do it.

There is too much at stake to let ourselves be distracted by such silliness as AGW. Those days of defrauding the public by stealing from them using taxes and such are over. CO2 - the greenhouse gas - will be the subject discussed around the breakfast table with people chuckling how wrongheaded and selfish it really was.


Agreed
1000+
Quoting Ossqss:
Wow, what a pic of the wolf moon from in front of the Tronoen Chapel in Brittany, France, from yesterday. From here http://spaceweather.com/




out>>> to catch up on my papers :) >>>

nice pic
Quoting calusakat:


Folks, I suggest that you all go out onto the net and read about what France is doing.

It aint near what Master X is saying, not by a long shot.

The potential might be there, yet, even they admit that there are many hurdles to overcome.

Like I said, check it out for yourself and you decide.




I know who I'm talking to so I won't get my hopes up, but could you be a bit more specific? A link perhaps?

Because just putting in "France Nuclear Energy" doesn't turn up anything that would indicate I'm off the mark, nor negative. In fact, with the introduction of their underwater nuclear plants, I'd say things in France are moving right along.

In fact, they're so good at what they do we outsource some of OUR nuclear waste to them. They have an energy surplus which they sell to surrounding nations. In fact, almost all the fossil fuels they do use are for transportation.

Their "accidents" for their entire operating history come out to a fraction of what the Gulf Oil Spill cost. And their plants produce less radioactive wastes than what a coal fired plant spews into the air.

The only issues I found were dealing with how they produce too much power so the plants weren't being optimally utilized (they actually have to shut some plants down every now and then so they don't overpower the grid), and how ultra cheap electricity has led people to be more lax about energy conservation.

Other than Wikipedia and French sites about their nuclear energy program, most of the other links that were returned were stories and press releases about new nuclear initiatives and the successes of the French nuclear program.

So if you could kindly post a link or links showing how I am incorrect, I would appreciate it because all the official sites seem to indicate that things are pretty good over there in regards to their nuclear energy.
Quoting Xyrus2000:


However, you still have Big Energy Co. out there waiting to scare the death out of Joe Sixpack and Jane SoccerMom with TeH eVal n00kleears.


Uh... I work for a big energy company and our corporate position is "all of the above" (except for coal) wrt energy.
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
I am all for the Breeder Reactor.Unfortunately
in 1977 President Jimmy Carter signed an executive order that banned the reprocessing of nuclear fuel in the United States. The rationale was that the Plutonium could possibly be stolen, and terrorists might be able to use it to make atomic bombs. This decision has stopped us from further developing this technology while other countries use it successfully.


I know. We send some of our nuclear waste to France, who enjoy buying nuclear fuel for dirt cheap prices.
Quoting MichaelSTL:


Indeed, the reason why conventional reactors produce so much waste is because they only use about 0.1% of the available energy from fission:



Also, since safety is concern:


Integral Fast Reactor

In traditional light water reactors (LWRs) the core must be maintained at a high pressure to keep the water liquid at high temperatures. In contrast, since the IFR is a liquid metal cooled reactor, the core could operate at close to ambient pressure, dramatically reducing the danger of a loss of coolant accident. The entire reactor core, heat exchangers and primary cooling pumps are immersed in a pool of liquid sodium, making a loss of primary coolant extremely unlikely. The coolant loops are designed to allow for cooling through natural convection, meaning that in the case of a power loss or unexpected reactor shutdown, the heat from the reactor core would be sufficient to keep the coolant circulating even if the primary cooling pumps were to fail.

The IFR also has passive safety advantages as compared with conventional LWRs. The fuel and cladding are designed such that when they expand due to increased temperatures, more neutrons would be able to escape the core, thus reducing the rate of the fission chain reaction. In other words, an increase in the core temperature will act as a feedback mechanism that decreases the core power. This attribute is known as a negative temperature coefficient of reactivity. Most LWRs also have negative reactivity coefficients; however, in an IFR, this effect is strong enough to stop the reactor from reaching core damage without external action from operators or safety systems. This was demonstrated in a series of safety tests on the prototype.

Liquid sodium presents safety problems because it ignites spontaneously on contact with air and can cause explosions on contact with water. To reduce the risk of explosions following a leak of water from the steam turbines, the IFR design (as with other sodium-cooled fast reactors) includes an intermediate liquid-metal coolant loop between the reactor and the steam turbines. The purpose of this loop is to ensure that any explosion following accidental mixing of sodium and turbine water would be limited to the secondary heat exchanger and not pose a risk to the reactor itself.

The available fuel metals were never separated from the plutonium, and therefore there was no direct way to use the fuel metals in nuclear weapons. Also, plutonium never had to leave the site, and thus was far less open to unauthorized diversion.

Another important benefit of removing the long half-life transuranics from the waste cycle is that the remaining waste becomes a much shorter-term hazard. After the actinides (reprocessed uranium, plutonium, and minor actinides) are recycled, the remaining radioactive waste isotopes are fission products, with half-life of 90 years (Sm-151) or less or 211,100 years (Tc-99) and more; plus any activation products from the non-fuel reactor components. (Tc-99 and Iodine-129 are also candidates for nuclear transmutation to stable isotopes by neutron capture.)

The result is that within 200 years, such wastes are no more radioactive than the ores of natural radioactive elements.


Goodness me I've given you 2 "+"s today :)
Hundreds of South Dakota dead birds poisoned by USDA

(Reuters) - The deaths of 200 starlings in Yankton, South Dakota this week is no mystery -- they died as the result of poison set out by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, an official said on Thursday.
Quoting Xyrus2000:


I know who I'm talking to so I won't get my hopes up, but could you be a bit more specific? A link perhaps?

Because just putting in "France Nuclear Energy" doesn't turn up anything that would indicate I'm off the mark, nor negative. In fact, with the introduction of their underwater nuclear plants, I'd say things in France are moving right along.

In fact, they're so good at what they do we outsource some of OUR nuclear waste to them. They have an energy surplus which they sell to surrounding nations. In fact, almost all the fossil fuels they do use are for transportation.

Their "accidents" for their entire operating history come out to a fraction of what the Gulf Oil Spill cost. And their plants produce less radioactive wastes than what a coal fired plant spews into the air.

The only issues I found were dealing with how they produce too much power so the plants weren't being utilized optimally utilized (they actually have to shut some plants down every now and then so they don't overpower the grid), and how ultra cheap electricity has led people to be more lax about energy conservation.

Other than Wikipedia and French sites about their nuclear energy program, most of the other links that were returned were stories and press releases about new nuclear initiatives and the successes of the French nuclear program.

So if you could kindly post a link or links showing how I am incorrect, I would appreciate it because all the official sites seem to indicate that things are pretty good over there in regards to their nuclear energy.


Umm Master X I wasn't talking to you in that post, I was addressing my post to fellow bloggers.

All they have to do, is go out onto the internet and read about it for themselves.

Since you believe that they , most of the populace, are all quite ignorant, it is probably impossible for you to understand that most of the bloggers here are quite intelligent and capable of reading and understanding where France claims to be today.

Which isn't anywhere near where you claim them to be regarding that issue.

I will let them decide for themselves.



More Energy, Less Carbon Dioxide

The big energy bashing accomplishes nothing. Exxon is still a bit in denial and Chevron has officially no set position but...

things must change...

things must change...

Now, I did meet somebody tonight who got a new car and thought 20 miles per gallon was great....

THEY ARE STILL SELLING JUNK LIKE THIS?

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It would be an incredible event - looking for confirmation:



Two Suns? Twin Stars Could Be Visible From Earth By 2012

Earth could be getting a second sun, at least temporarily.

Dr. Brad Carter, Senior Lecturer of Physics at the University of Southern Queensland, outlined the scenario to news.com.au. Betelgeuse, one of the night sky's brightest stars, is losing mass, indicating it is collapsing. It could run out of fuel and go super-nova at any time.

When that happens, for at least a few weeks, we'd see a second sun, Carter says. There may also be no night during that timeframe.

The Star Wars-esque scenario could happen by 2012, Carter says... or it could take longer. The explosion could also cause a neutron star or result in the formation of a black hole 1300 light years from Earth,




Betelgeuse, also known by its Bayer designation Alpha Orionis, is the ninth brightest star in the night sky and second brightest star in the constellation of Orion, outshining its neighbour Rigel (Beta Orionis) only rarely. Distinctly reddish-tinted, it is a semiregular variable star whose apparent magnitude varies between 0.2 and 1.2, the widest range of any first magnitude star. The star marks the upper right vertex of the Winter Triangle and center of the Winter Hexagon.
Scientist are trying to make a mini star at the recently completed National Ignition Facility for a energy source. They recently started giving tours.
Quoting EnergyMoron:


Uh... I work for a big energy company and our corporate position is "all of the above" (except for coal) wrt energy.


Sorry. I was generalizing and dredging up ghosts of history past. I remember the ridiculous FUD flying around about how bad nuclear energy was. And then the fossil fuel companies got a gift from the gods: Chernobyl. It didn't matter that the reason why Chernobyl went up was because they deliberately disabled the safety protocols and then deliberately put it into a meltdown condition. It didn't matter that it was using unsafe reactor designs that hadn't been used in the rest of the world for 30 years. All that mattered was that it was nuclear and that it exploded.

These days we do indeed have energy companies that are into renewable and nuclear energy. So I apologize if you took offense.
A supernova this close to earth would be bizarre. To say the absolute least.

Has anyone heard of this? This is the first for me for such a close star.
something wonderful will happen
Quoting Xyrus2000:


Hey, remember when this blog consisted of people who weren't passive aggressive and didn't insult people for correcting misinformation and lies?

It is not egotistical correct someone when they're wrong. Nor is it egotistical to correct FUD, misinformation, distortions, and outright lies.

How many times have you had to correct wishcasters, doomcasters, wobblecasters, etc.? Does that make you egotistical?

Some of the people on here don't even understand the fundamentals of physics, let alone weather or climate. Yet they think they know more than the combined scientific community and can claim dismissively that all the decades worth of research, data, and observations are nothing more than BS.

If that doesn't scream egotistical arrogance I don't know what does.


lol, I love how people like you own yourselves in trying to cut others down, that's a key characteristic of an over sized ego :)

Quoting EnergyMoron:
More Energy, Less Carbon Dioxide...Now, I did meet somebody tonight who got a new car and thought 20 miles per gallon was great....

THEY ARE STILL SELLING JUNK LIKE THIS?

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Are you serious? 20 mpg? A V-8 Studebaker land cruiser got better mileage than that!
Quoting Xyrus2000:


Sorry. I was generalizing and dredging up ghosts of history past. I remember the ridiculous FUD flying around about how bad nuclear energy was. And then the fossil fuel companies got a gift from the gods: Chernobyl. It didn't matter that the reason why Chernobyl went up was because they deliberately disabled the safety protocols and then deliberately put it into a meltdown condition. It didn't matter that it was using unsafe reactor designs that hadn't been used in the rest of the world for 30 years. All that mattered was that it was nuclear and that it exploded.

These days we do indeed have energy companies that are into renewable and nuclear energy. So I apologize if you took offense.


Thank you.

It is always a sign of maturity to admit when you are wrong.

As a moron that happens to me often :).
Quoting JFLORIDA:
It would be an incredible event - looking for confirmation:



Two Suns? Twin Stars Could Be Visible From Earth By 2012

Earth could be getting a second sun, at least temporarily.

Dr. Brad Carter, Senior Lecturer of Physics at the University of Southern Queensland, outlined the scenario to news.com.au. Betelgeuse, one of the night sky's brightest stars, is losing mass, indicating it is collapsing. It could run out of fuel and go super-nova at any time.

When that happens, for at least a few weeks, we'd see a second sun, Carter says. There may also be no night during that timeframe.

The Star Wars-esque scenario could happen by 2012, Carter says... or it could take longer. The explosion could also cause a neutron star or result in the formation of a black hole 1300 light years from Earth,




Betelgeuse, also known by its Bayer designation Alpha Orionis, is the ninth brightest star in the night sky and second brightest star in the constellation of Orion, outshining its neighbour Rigel (Beta Orionis) only rarely. Distinctly reddish-tinted, it is a semiregular variable star whose apparent magnitude varies between 0.2 and 1.2, the widest range of any first magnitude star. The star marks the upper right vertex of the Winter Triangle and center of the Winter Hexagon.


Nobody else will comment on it I will. Sounds like something that I can't wait for! If it really does happen but I'll be hoping it does.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
It would be an incredible event - looking for confirmation:



Two Suns? Twin Stars Could Be Visible From Earth By 2012

Earth could be getting a second sun, at least temporarily.

Dr. Brad Carter, Senior Lecturer of Physics at the University of Southern Queensland, outlined the scenario to news.com.au. Betelgeuse, one of the night sky's brightest stars, is losing mass, indicating it is collapsing. It could run out of fuel and go super-nova at any time.

When that happens, for at least a few weeks, we'd see a second sun, Carter says. There may also be no night during that timeframe.

The Star Wars-esque scenario could happen by 2012, Carter says... or it could take longer. The explosion could also cause a neutron star or result in the formation of a black hole 1300 light years from Earth,




Betelgeuse, also known by its Bayer designation Alpha Orionis, is the ninth brightest star in the night sky and second brightest star in the constellation of Orion, outshining its neighbour Rigel (Beta Orionis) only rarely. Distinctly reddish-tinted, it is a semiregular variable star whose apparent magnitude varies between 0.2 and 1.2, the widest range of any first magnitude star. The star marks the upper right vertex of the Winter Triangle and center of the Winter Hexagon.


That would certainly be a big bang, to say the least:


(it is hard to see, but the Sun is shown on the lower left as 1 pixel, and as you can see, there are even bigger stars)

Not to worry though, from the same article:

But doomsday sayers should be careful about speculation on this one. If the star does go super-nova, Earth will be showered with harmless particles, according to Carter. "They will flood through the Earth and bizarrely enough, even though the supernova we see visually will light up the night sky, 99 per cent of the energy in the supernova is released in these particles that will come through our bodies and through the Earth with absolutely no harm whatsoever," he told news.com.au.

In fact, a neutrino shower could be beneficial to Earth. According to Carter this "star stuff" makes up the universe. "It literally makes things like gold, silver - all the heavy elements - even things like uranium....a star like Betelgeuse is instantly forming for us all sorts of heavy elements and atoms that our own Earth and our own bodies have from long past supernovi," said Carter.

I would like to see some info on this quickly.

Quoting JFLORIDA:
A supernova this close to earth would be bizarre. To say the absolute least.

Has anyone heard of this? This is the first for me for such a close star.


Check this out. While going through my papers and stuff, this popped up on a Super Nova.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40908913/ns/technology_and_science-space/
Largest Star Ever Known in the Universe



Imagine the bang that would make...
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Obviously I dont think those here realize the implications of such an event. But thats not surprising considering their understandings of natural science here.

I would like to see some info on this quickly.



See you poke jabs at people even talking about this c'mon man.
823. JRRP
sorry! ya lo habias puesto

es facil de ver... es una de las estrellas mas brillantes
si miran al cielo esta al lado de la constelacion de orion
If it became a black hole it would be the closest. One in Cygnus is now at 7,800 light-years from Earth
Quoting JFLORIDA:
It would be an incredible event - looking for confirmation:



Two Suns? Twin Stars Could Be Visible From Earth By 2012

Earth could be getting a second sun, at least temporarily.

Dr. Brad Carter, Senior Lecturer of Physics at the University of Southern Queensland, outlined the scenario to news.com.au. Betelgeuse, one of the night sky's brightest stars, is losing mass, indicating it is collapsing. It could run out of fuel and go super-nova at any time.

When that happens, for at least a few weeks, we'd see a second sun, Carter says. There may also be no night during that timeframe.

The Star Wars-esque scenario could happen by 2012, Carter says... or it could take longer. The explosion could also cause a neutron star or result in the formation of a black hole 1300 light years from Earth,




Betelgeuse, also known by its Bayer designation Alpha Orionis, is the ninth brightest star in the night sky and second brightest star in the constellation of Orion, outshining its neighbour Rigel (Beta Orionis) only rarely. Distinctly reddish-tinted, it is a semiregular variable star whose apparent magnitude varies between 0.2 and 1.2, the widest range of any first magnitude star. The star marks the upper right vertex of the Winter Triangle and center of the Winter Hexagon.
Could this be the event the Mayans have been predicting?
I wish astronomers would double check their benign predictions for this possible supernova. I was under the impression that a supernova this close to us might act as a death star.
Quoting calusakat:


Umm Master X I wasn't talking to you in that post, I was addressing my post to fellow bloggers.

All they have to do, is go out onto the internet and read about it for themselves.

Since you believe that they , most of the populace, are all quite ignorant, it is probably impossible for you to understand that most of the bloggers here are quite intelligent and capable of reading and understanding where France claims to be today.

Which isn't anywhere near where you claim them to be regarding that issue.

I will let them decide for themselves.





You are quite the artful troll, aren't you? Deflecting the question without providing so much as a URL. I applaud you, and give you a tip of my hat sir.

However, I do take offense for you claiming things I never said. At no time did I state that all the bloggers here are ignorant. I didn't even use the word ignorant, which has significantly different connotations. I said the general populace is not as well educated when compared to other developed nations, which is true according to PISA.

The general populace does not come onto blogs such as this to discuss the weather dynamics of cyclonic systems, nor the merits of scientific research in regards to meteorology and climatology. The general populace is on Facebook discussing contestants on American Idol, not on weather sites discussing temperature records and extreme weather phenomena induced by La Nina/El Nino.

As I stated, searching for the terms "French Nuclear Power" in Google does not turn up anything to discredit what I said. In fact, the number one link takes you here, which gives a very detailed of France's nuclear power. Or you can go to the second link from that search here, which provides a more concise overview.

Once again I ask, can you site a source for your information? But we both know the answer to that question.
Earthlike planet Zarmina's bizarre climate makes it look like a giant eyeball



Gliese 581g is the first planet other than Earth to exist within its star's habitable zone, meaning it could support human life. Now we've got an idea of what it looks like...and it's seriously spooky.
Quoting MichaelSTL:
Earthlike planet Zarmina's bizarre climate makes it look like a giant eyeball



Gliese 581g is the first planet other than Earth to exist within its star's habitable zone, meaning it could support human life. Now we've got an idea of what it looks like...and it's seriously spooky.


I don't care what anyone says, Zarmina's climate is not bizarre. It just goes through its normal cycles as it has for billions of years. j/k
Quoting JFLORIDA:
A supernova this close to earth would be bizarre. To say the absolute least.

Has anyone heard of this? This is the first for me for such a close star.


Nah, this has been speculated about for decades now. What's recently piqued interest is the recent "possible" deformation they've detected in the star's signature.

The effects from the supernova would be visibly dramatic. It would be quite bright for a while, brighter than the full moon and visible during daylight hours. It would look really cool while it lasted, but would start dimming within a few weeks.

And that's about all the effect it would have.

This wouldn't be the first time for a relatively close star to go supernova. The Crab Nebula was star that exploded back in the 11th century and had a similar effect. Although it freaked the heck out of people when it happened back then.
Quoting Grothar:


I don't care what anyone says, Zarmina's climate is not bizarre. It just goes through its normal cycles as it has for billions of years. j/k


Hey Gro the night shift ain't misbehaving.

Day shift... ummmm....
Thats what im thinking - with all the 2012 idiocy and hysteria they just picked that date arbitrary.

But I had not heard it was potentially such a close event.

The crab nebula event was approx 7000 light years away.
Quoting EnergyMoron:


Hey Gro the night shift ain't misbehaving.

Day shift... ummmm....


Much nicer now than it was today. I was afraid to come on. At my age, all that excitement in not good. I was shocked!!!!
A type II supernova belongs to a sub-category of cataclysmic variable star known as a core-collapse supernova, which results from the internal collapse and violent explosion of a massive star. The presence of hydrogen in its spectrum is what distinguishes a type II supernova from other classes of supernova explosions. A star must have at least 9 times the mass of the Sun in order to undergo this type of core-collapse


Quoting Grothar:


Much nicer now than it was today. I was afraid to come on. At my age, all that excitement in not good. I was shocked!!!!
shocked just wait you have seen nothing yet
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Thats what im thinking - with all the 2012 idiocy and hysteria they just picked that date arbitrary.

But I had not heard it was potentially such a close event.


If Alpha Centauri (just over 4 light years away) was threatening to go super nova, then we'd have a serious problem. But given that it is yellow dwarf main sequencer like our sun it's something we won't need to worry about.
Actually, following the links others provided (I actually read them), I did find a good link on "Beetle Juice" as I call it

Real Science

Huffington Post Drudge Report read them both and move on...

For those interested in a 5 BC event noticed in Asia found the following:

5 BC
Approaching supernova

The future fate of Betelgeuse depends on its mass—a critical factor which is not well understood.Since most investigators concede a mass greater than 10M☉, the most likely scenario is that the supergiant will continue to burn and fuse elements until its core is iron, at which point Betelgeuse will explode as a type II supernova. During this event the core will collapse, leaving behind a neutron star remnant some 20 km in diameter.

Betelgeuse is already old for its size class and is expected to explode relatively soon compared to its age. Solving the riddle of mass-loss will be the key to knowing when a supernova might occur, an event expected anytime in the next million years, with some speculation it could even occur in the next millennium. Supporting this hypothesis are a number of unusual features that have been observed in the interstellar medium of the Orion Molecular Cloud Complex, which suggest that there have been multiple supernova explosions in the recent past


See this is the quickest ive heard of this possible. So is is based in a calculation that astronomer did or some idiot story about 2012?
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Approaching supernova

The future fate of Betelgeuse depends on its mass—a critical factor which is not well understood.Since most investigators concede a mass greater than 10M☉, the most likely scenario is that the supergiant will continue to burn and fuse elements until its core is iron, at which point Betelgeuse will explode as a type II supernova. During this event the core will collapse, leaving behind a neutron star remnant some 20 km in diameter.

Betelgeuse is already old for its size class and is expected to explode relatively soon compared to its age. Solving the riddle of mass-loss will be the key to knowing when a supernova might occur, an event expected anytime in the next million years, with some speculation it could even occur in the next millennium. Supporting this hypothesis are a number of unusual features that have been observed in the interstellar medium of the Orion Molecular Cloud Complex, which suggest that there have been multiple supernova explosions in the recent past


See this is the quickest ive heard of this possible. So is is based in a calculation that astronomer did or some idiot story about 2012?
Where's that Aussie Quadrantid? He could Share his expertise on this possible supernova and certainly on Zamina. Hope he's OK with the floods down there.
If this supernova were to occur, besides it being the astronomical event of the last 1000 years, it could act as a "sign" to the religions of the world, in both positive and negative ways. I fear that radicals would interpret it as a verification by God for their terrorist ways.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
with distance estimates in the last century that have ranged anywhere from 180 to 1,300 light years from Earth, calculating its diameter, luminosity and mass have proven difficult. Betelgeuse is currently thought to lie around 640 light years away, yielding a mean absolute magnitude of about -6.05.

from the wiki. Thats also important for the supernova, in the article it quoted 1300. I would like to see this confirmed by US astronomers.


Betelgeuse will, one day, go supernova. In fact, in astronomical terms, it's pretty damn close. That said, it's very unlikely to go bang this week, this month, or this year. Most discussions I've seen of it suggest that the supernova event will occur at some point in the next million years or so... it'll probably be sooner than that, but given that the stars move, relative to one another, it'll probably be significantly further from the Earth by the time it does go pop than it is now.

To give you a first-order estimate of the lifetime of a given star (from birth to death), then you can work it out fairly easily as follows. The luminosity of a star is, roughly proportional to the fourth power of its mass (that varies a bit, dependent on which fusion process is going on in the core, which is why the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram's main sequence is curved, rather than straight, but it's a reasonable assumption). The material fused by the star, its fuel, is the material that makes it up. Hydrogen burning takes up the great, great, great majority of the stars life (with helium, carbon, etc. phases, in the post-main-sequence life being really short by comparison). The amount of fuel that a star has, then, is directly proportional to its mass -- increase the mass, increase the amount of fuel (though if I remember right, most stars only burn ~10% of their hydrogen before they come to the end of their life).

So, the amount of energy given out by a star, its luminosity, is proportional to mass to the fourth power. This is basically the rate at which it burns its fuel -- fusing more hydrogen per second --> more energy given out...

The amount of fuel available is proportional to the mass

So, then, the lifetime of the star is determined by the amount of fuel it has, divided by the rate at which it burns them -- i.e. Mass / Mass^4
or
Lifetime proportional to 1 / M^3

So, if you increase the mass of a star by a factor of ten, you reduce its lifetime by a factor of 10^3 = 1000. Betelgeuse's mass is fairly well established, for a star, because it has a faint binary companion. We know it is around 19 times the mass of the Sun, so it'll live, roughly, 1/6900th as long. The estimated lifetime of the Sun is between 10 and 14 thousand million years -- so that means Betelgeuse, at first glance, should live for a couple of million years.

It's almost at the end of that time, as we can tell by the fact it's already a red giant. Even if we say that it is remarkably close to death (within 10,000 years of dying), the odds of it dying this year are pretty minimal...
Crap, you all made me look at this stuff and I found it quite interesting, and entertainng :P

Just sharin, take it as you may, but gotta love Carl ! gnight>>>>

Technological Singularity Explained
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
shocked just wait you have seen nothing yet


Saw you got in a few good shots today. Glad were talking astronomy. Been my hobby since way back when. Some interesting posts and so far pretty darn accurate. Somebody is doing their homework. Nice to watch.
Quoting Quadrantid:


Betelgeuse will, one day, go supernova. In fact, in astronomical terms, it's pretty damn close. That said, it's very unlikely to go bang this week, this month, or this year. Most discussions I've seen of it suggest that the supernova event will occur at some point in the next million years or so... it'll probably be sooner than that, but given that the stars move, relative to one another, it'll probably be significantly further from the Earth by the time it does go pop than it is now.

To give you a first-order estimate of the lifetime of a given star (from birth to death), then you can work it out fairly easily as follows. The luminosity of a star is, roughly proportional to the fourth power of its mass (that varies a bit, dependent on which fusion process is going on in the core, which is why the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram's main sequence is curved, rather than straight, but it's a reasonable assumption). The material fused by the star, its fuel, is the material that makes it up. Hydrogen burning takes up the great, great, great majority of the stars life (with helium, carbon, etc. phases, in the post-main-sequence life being really short by comparison). The amount of fuel that a star has, then, is directly proportional to its mass -- increase the mass, increase the amount of fuel (though if I remember right, most stars only burn ~10% of their hydrogen before they come to the end of their life).

So, the amount of energy given out by a star, its luminosity, is proportional to mass to the fourth power. This is basically the rate at which it burns its fuel -- fusing more hydrogen per second --> more energy given out...

The amount of fuel available is proportional to the mass

So, then, the lifetime of the star is determined by the amount of fuel it has, divided by the rate at which it burns them -- i.e. Mass / Mass^4
or
Lifetime proportional to 1 / M^3

So, if you increase the mass of a star by a factor of ten, you reduce its lifetime by a factor of 10^3 = 1000. Betelgeuse's mass is fairly well established, for a star, because it has a faint binary companion. We know it is around 19 times the mass of the Sun, so it'll live, roughly, 1/6900th as long. The estimated lifetime of the Sun is between 10 and 14 thousand million years -- so that means Betelgeuse, at first glance, should live for a couple of million years.

It's almost at the end of that time, as we can tell by the fact it's already a red giant. Even if we say that it is remarkably close to death (within 10,000 years of dying), the odds of it dying this year are pretty minimal...


Thanks.
Quoting Quadrantid:


Betelgeuse will, one day, go supernova. In fact, in astronomical terms, it's pretty damn close. That said, it's very unlikely to go bang this week, this month, or this year. Most discussions I've seen of it suggest that the supernova event will occur at some point in the next million years or so... it'll probably be sooner than that, but given that the stars move, relative to one another, it'll probably be significantly further from the Earth by the time it does go pop than it is now.

To give you a first-order estimate of the lifetime of a given star (from birth to death), then you can work it out fairly easily as follows. The luminosity of a star is, roughly proportional to the fourth power of its mass (that varies a bit, dependent on which fusion process is going on in the core, which is why the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram's main sequence is curved, rather than straight, but it's a reasonable assumption). The material fused by the star, its fuel, is the material that makes it up. Hydrogen burning takes up the great, great, great majority of the stars life (with helium, carbon, etc. phases, in the post-main-sequence life being really short by comparison). The amount of fuel that a star has, then, is directly proportional to its mass -- increase the mass, increase the amount of fuel (though if I remember right, most stars only burn ~10% of their hydrogen before they come to the end of their life).

So, the amount of energy given out by a star, its luminosity, is proportional to mass to the fourth power. This is basically the rate at which it burns its fuel -- fusing more hydrogen per second --> more energy given out...

The amount of fuel available is proportional to the mass

So, then, the lifetime of the star is determined by the amount of fuel it has, divided by the rate at which it burns them -- i.e. Mass / Mass^4
or
Lifetime proportional to 1 / M^3

So, if you increase the mass of a star by a factor of ten, you reduce its lifetime by a factor of 10^3 = 1000. Betelgeuse's mass is fairly well established, for a star, because it has a faint binary companion. We know it is around 19 times the mass of the Sun, so it'll live, roughly, 1/6900th as long. The estimated lifetime of the Sun is between 10 and 14 thousand million years -- so that means Betelgeuse, at first glance, should live for a couple of million years.

It's almost at the end of that time, as we can tell by the fact it's already a red giant. Even if we say that it is remarkably close to death (within 10,000 years of dying), the odds of it dying this year are pretty minimal...
Ask and you shall receive.
Some people were talking about this song this morning, so i'll post it:

Quoting JFLORIDA:


Thanks.


Miracles do happen "(+)"
Well I went back and looked at the astronomer's comments and they basically say it could hap[pen before 2012 or 10,000 years. So the story is kinda fake If you ask me.

No new information on this topic is out there.
Eep -- sorry about that, got interrupted writing it by a student here looking for CV advice :D

Anyways -- I think Betelgeuse is a bit too far away to cause catastrophic disruption of things here on Earth -- but it is far, far closer than the start that exploded to make the Crab Nebula (Betelgeuse is about 200 parsecs away, compared to about 2000 for the Crab). Assuming the two supernovae were the same intrinsic brightness, and no interference between us and them, then the fact it is 10 times closer would make it 100 times brighter (light intensity falling as the square of the distance to the source - inverse square law). That'd be 5 magnitudes brighter (magnitudes are a logarithmic scale measuring observed flux). The supernova that was seen at the birth of the Crab is estimated to have been about mag. -5 or -6 at brightest, brighter than Venus, fainter than the moon -- so Betelgeuse would be about as bright as the full moon (a little fainter, maybe).

As for the age equation I gave above, a bit of a caveat -- depending on where you are in the HR diagram, the luminosity varies as between M cubed and M^4... so assuming it all using the L prop. M^4th relationship gives a minimum estimate for the lifetime :D

And KrippleCreekFerry - I'm fine, thanks :) Floods are all either way up north, or way south-west of us -- Sydney has actually had slightly less rain than the average over the last month or so. It's my first year here, though, so I don't know whether the weather here has been particularly odd!

I vaguely remember reading a paper that was interested in the possibilities for supernovae to cause mass extinctions, a while back. I'm sure it said that a star would have to be much nearer than Betelgeuse to cause that kind of trouble -- maybe by another factor of ten or so? Don't quote me on that, though -- it's a hazy memory of a paper I read a few years back :D
Quoting JFLORIDA:
Well I went back and looked at the astronomer's comments and they basically say it could hap[pen before 2012 or 10,000 years. So the story is kinda fake If you ask me.

No new information on this topic is out there.


Doesn't surprise me to be honest - it's the kind of answer I've given at outreach talks before when asked when the next big impact could come on Earth. The astronomer was probably trying to make the point that the explosion happening next year is incredibly unlikely even given their observations (10,000 years is a blink of an eye, in the lifetime of a star), but the risk of making statements like those is that they give people something to twist around to make a really alarmist story :)

Always got to be very careful what you say, and how you say it, is I think the moral of the story :D
They should arrest people just for mentioning 2012.

Did the world end when your circa 1989 chippendale calendar hit dec 31? No. How strange.


850. Quadrantid - its still good to know what could happen. But that article has no new research or insight. They even use a older distance estimate.

Peer review or not worth listening to! (mostly)
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
shocked just wait you have seen nothing yet


had to report per taz an earlier post since i do have daughters who visit this site.

anyway...

IPCC to be defunded by congress in their pathetic attempt to reduce a 1.25 trillion dollar deficit by cutting .25 trillion.

expect serious fireworks
who gives a ploop hurricane in gulf next month!
Are there any possibility of Neutrino Shower as cause of Earth’s end?

Since *most* neutrinos can pass all the way through the Earth with no interaction at all, even an increase in the neutrino density *probably* would have little to no effect. Right now, millions to billions are passing through your body, and untold *zillions* through the bulk of Earth itself.

Only in the event of a nearby supernova. Only supernovas produce so many neutrinos that it becomes deadly. In 1987, there was a supernova in the Large Magellanic Cloud that made all our neutrino detectors go off the scale.

Gazillions of neutrinos are zooming right through my body as we speak, and I feel just fine. Same with the Earth.

Quoting Quadrantid:


Doesn't surprise me to be honest - it's the kind of answer I've given at outreach talks before when asked when the next big impact could come on Earth. The astronomer was probably trying to make the point that the explosion happening next year is incredibly unlikely even given their observations (10,000 years is a blink of an eye, in the lifetime of a star), but the risk of making statements like those is that they give people something to twist around to make a really alarmist story :)

Always got to be very careful what you say, and how you say it, is I think the moral of the story :D
Thanks for all the info. There is some type of star, if I'm not mistaken that can send a narrow beam of high energy in opposite directions when it explodes, and if we are in the path of the beam we are fried, even if at great distance. I read that somewhere as a possible cause for a mass extinction.
Quoting KrippleCreekFerry:
Thanks for all the info. There is some type of star, if I'm not mistaken that can send a narrow beam of high energy in opposite directions when it explodes, and if we are in the path of the beam we are fried, even if at great distance. I read that somewhere as a possible cause for a mass extinction.


If I remember right, that's an idea based on one explanation for gamma ray bursters -- which are one of nature's many poorly explained phenomena :) Essentially, when people started observing gamma rays, they noticed occasional bursts of them from random directions in space, which couldn't be associated with anything we knew. If I remember right, the first suggestions were that they were something very near the Earth (and hence had really tiny luminosities - they were bright because they were nearby). People have since come to the conclusion that, instead, they're incredibly distant (and hence among the most luminous things ever observed). One of the leading theories is that some supernovae (I think those caused by the merging/collision of two neutron stars, though again don't quote me on that - long time since I read about this) emit the great majority of their energy in a tight beam, out from their poles (such beaming isn't unprecedented -- it's something people have discussed with quasars, radio galaxies, and is also something people suggest is a mass loss route for stars as they form). If you're aligned with that beam, then you see a burst of radiation, when it reaches you -- the gamma ray burst. The idea is that the chance of such alignment with Earth is tiny, and the collision events are really rare, which is why even in a universe as large as ours, we see very few of these events (and those we've seen to date are right on the edge of the observable universe). If one happened nearby (say, in our galaxy), and was perfectly aligned, we'd have problems :) At least, that's the idea as best I remember it :) Whether it's widely accepted is another matter - it isn't really my field, so I couldn't tell you :)
Quoting EnergyMoron:


had to report per taz an earlier post since i do have daughters who visit this site.

anyway...

IPCC to be defunded by congress in their pathetic attempt to reduce a 1.25 trillion dollar deficit by cutting .25 trillion.

expect serious fireworks
iam sure your girls have seen and read a lot worse than i will ever type give it a rest pal
Quoting Xyrus2000:


Are you serious? 20 mpg? A V-8 Studebaker land cruiser got better mileage than that!


Sorry for the slow response. Since there is an open challenge to arrest anybody for mentioning 2012 methinks i will

2012 Ford C-Max

work for an energy company and not Ford.

Drove it in Europe. i lived there and complained that i had to have a Ford rental car (asked for the biggest with our 3 adopted children).

40 MPG on gasoline (the diesel folks say gets about 50).

i did try to redirect the conversation towards the 2012 model and somebody is waiting for it...

btw... one of the funniest aspects of the 20 mpg car is despite dealer calling color pyrite somebody else called it poop (polite crowd so use polite terms).

a 20 mpg poop color car... yah... just what i want!

report me (if my daughter reads this so what)
Quoting RufusBaker:
who gives a ploop hurricane in gulf next month!


It's certainly not impossible:

once in a lifetime....

hi keeper- you keep me smiling even after 16 hours at work

zzzzzzzz
861. JRRP
somebody got to do it the rest are too uptight and some are not tight at all
Before I turn in, I thought some of you would enjoy this little Robert Frost quote. I was going to post it earlier, but, you know me; I don't like to cause trouble (chuckle) This of course is not intended for any of you on here tonight.

Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost


Have a good evening and stay well.

A mini squall line has formed in Central Florida, surprised a MESODISCUSSION wasn't issued on it, it looks good enough to have a watch.
Quoting Jedkins01:


lol, I love how people like you own yourselves in trying to cut others down, that's a key characteristic of an over sized ego :)



Yeah. I really owned myself. Big time. Me and my huge ego, and the way I just insult everyone on here left and right. The way I make idiotic claims about science and provide no corroborating evidence or peer-reviewed sources. The way I just troll aimlessly about any topic, and bring up topics sure to turn a discussion into porridge. You know, like bringing up the Nazi's in a climate discussion? The way I go on and on about how the hurricane experts are so wrong in all their predictions on hurricane tracks, and that their science and models are just crap compared to my amazing forecasting abilities. The way I just know for a fact that there is a big conspiracy about the price of Kellog's corn flakes just because, like IT'S SO OBVIOUS.

Yeah, that's me. Me and my big ego.

I guess in your view, the effort to educate and correct someone is arrogant. Providing explanations and links to sources is just my big ego getting in the way. And heaven forbid I inform someone that the "science" articles they're referring to isn't from a peer-reviewed source.

For the most part, people who don't have anything to contribute or don't want to participate have been respectfully quiet. Others have not be so respectful, using fallacious arguments and logic, and launching into insulting diatribes directed at those attempting to correct bad information and mis-impressions. Unlike individuals like Levi32 who has respectfully and intellectually discussed the topic without resorting to imbecilic insults, these individuals do nothing besides pollute the conversation, bring out hostilities, and continue to spread nothing but ignorance and vitriolic nonsense.

When I see or hear someone spreading deceit, lies, and misinformation it sets my teeth on edge. There is always the option to just ignore the whole discussion entirely. But it is not in my nature to sit idly by while certain individuals spout off unverified claims and ludicrous conspiracy speculation trying to pass it off a pure science and fact when it is not. At best it is intellectually dishonest and ranks right up there with telling little girls they'll get pregnant if they kiss a boy.

Now if this bothers you so much, and if you haven't already done so, just add me to your ignore list. Then you can sit there and feel as smug as a priest before the pearly gates about putting me and massive ego in my place.
866. xcool
867. BtnTx
Quoting JFLORIDA:
A type II supernova belongs to a sub-category of cataclysmic variable star known as a core-collapse supernova, which results from the internal collapse and violent explosion of a massive star. The presence of hydrogen in its spectrum is what distinguishes a type II supernova from other classes of supernova explosions. A star must have at least 9 times the mass of the Sun in order to undergo this type of core-collapse


very interesting!
Quoting Xyrus2000:


Unlike individuals like Levi32 who has respectfully and intellectually discussed the topic without resorting to imbecilic insults


Keeper says to move on but affirmation is always a good thing.

You smell test. You said you are sorry then you defended Levi (best other than the Doc on hurricanes on this blog...)

Okay keeper the body is tired so i have to listen to what you say... not because you said it of course :)
Thanks for the visual Xcool....hope to get some sun tomorrow :}
870. xcool
welcome
Quoting reedzone:
A mini squall line has formed in Central Florida, surprised a MESODISCUSSION wasn't issued on it, it looks good enough to have a watch.
872. xcool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXju8_EXko0


Cameras on the International Space Station captured new views of Hurricanes Julia and Igor from 225 statute miles above the Earth on September 16, 2010 as well as views of newly formed Hurricane Karl. Julia is weakening, but is seen in the video as a formidable Category 2 hurricane as it moved northwest across the eastern Atlantic with winds of 105 miles an hour. Igor remains a powerful hurricane and strengthened overnight back to a Category 4 storm as it moved west-northwest across the western Atlantic with winds of 145 miles an hour. What was Tropical Storm Karl crossed the Yucatan Peninsula overnight and strengthened into a Category 1 hurricane over the Bay of Campeche Thursday morning with winds of 75 miles an hour.

Quoting xcool:


Where you been hiding, xcool? Haven't seen a map from you in months.
Quoting Quadrantid:


Betelgeuse will, one day, go supernova. In fact, in astronomical terms, it's pretty damn close. That said, it's very unlikely to go bang this week, this month, or this year. Most discussions I've seen of it suggest that the supernova event will occur at some point in the next million years or so... it'll probably be sooner than that, but given that the stars move, relative to one another, it'll probably be significantly further from the Earth by the time it does go pop than it is now.

To give you a first-order estimate of the lifetime of a given star (from birth to death), then you can work it out fairly easily as follows. The luminosity of a star is, roughly proportional to the fourth power of its mass (that varies a bit, dependent on which fusion process is going on in the core, which is why the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram's main sequence is curved, rather than straight, but it's a reasonable assumption). The material fused by the star, its fuel, is the material that makes it up. Hydrogen burning takes up the great, great, great majority of the stars life (with helium, carbon, etc. phases, in the post-main-sequence life being really short by comparison). The amount of fuel that a star has, then, is directly proportional to its mass -- increase the mass, increase the amount of fuel (though if I remember right, most stars only burn ~10% of their hydrogen before they come to the end of their life).

So, the amount of energy given out by a star, its luminosity, is proportional to mass to the fourth power. This is basically the rate at which it burns its fuel -- fusing more hydrogen per second --> more energy given out...

The amount of fuel available is proportional to the mass

So, then, the lifetime of the star is determined by the amount of fuel it has, divided by the rate at which it burns them -- i.e. Mass / Mass^4
or
Lifetime proportional to 1 / M^3

So, if you increase the mass of a star by a factor of ten, you reduce its lifetime by a factor of 10^3 = 1000. Betelgeuse's mass is fairly well established, for a star, because it has a faint binary companion. We know it is around 19 times the mass of the Sun, so it'll live, roughly, 1/6900th as long. The estimated lifetime of the Sun is between 10 and 14 thousand million years -- so that means Betelgeuse, at first glance, should live for a couple of million years.

It's almost at the end of that time, as we can tell by the fact it's already a red giant. Even if we say that it is remarkably close to death (within 10,000 years of dying), the odds of it dying this year are pretty minimal...


As a side note to the informative summary, fusion is only energy positive up to iron. Fusing iron takes more energy than it puts out, so stars reaching the end of their life cycle become more and more iron rich.

This is why it's a common saying that anything heavier than iron is material from exploded stars. Only exploding (or collapsed/collapsing) stars produce the kinds of conditions needed to produce elements heavier than iron. So you can be sure the gold ring your wearing was most likely part of some supernova billions of years ago that fed into our proto-planetary disk that eventually became our solar system.

Pretty amazing when you think about it.
Quoting Xyrus2000:


As a side note to the informative summary, fusion is only energy positive up to iron. Fusing iron takes more energy than it puts out, so stars reaching the end of their life cycle become more and more iron rich.

This is why it's a common saying that anything heavier than iron is material from exploded stars. Only exploding (or collapsed/collapsing) stars produce the kinds of conditions needed to produce elements heavier than iron. So you can be sure the gold ring your wearing was most likely part of some supernova billions of years ago that fed into our proto-planetary disk that eventually became our solar system.

Pretty amazing when you think about it.


Not mine. I got it at Zales Jewelry.
Quoting EnergyMoron:


had to report per taz an earlier post since i do have daughters who visit this site.

anyway...

IPCC to be defunded by congress in their pathetic attempt to reduce a 1.25 trillion dollar deficit by cutting .25 trillion.

expect serious fireworks


Err...I think you might be off by a couple of orders of magnitude. The total across all government branches for climate research (the last I checked) was under $2 billion, and almost all of that is for new satellites for the decadal missions. The IPCC report would only be a small part of that budget, unless they have their own budget allocation from congress, which I don't believe is the case.
878. xcool


very warm
879. xcool
i've been so busy
Quoting Xyrus2000:


As a side note to the informative summary, fusion is only energy positive up to iron. Fusing iron takes more energy than it puts out, so stars reaching the end of their life cycle become more and more iron rich.

This is why it's a common saying that anything heavier than iron is material from exploded stars. Only exploding (or collapsed/collapsing) stars produce the kinds of conditions needed to produce elements heavier than iron. So you can be sure the gold ring your wearing was most likely part of some supernova billions of years ago that fed into our proto-planetary disk that eventually became our solar system.

Pretty amazing when you think about it.
Well, I came upon a child of God
He was walking along the road
And I asked him, 'Tell where are you going?'
This he told me
Said, 'I¹m going down to Yasgur's Farm,
Gonna join in a rock and roll band.
Got to get back to the land and set my soul free.'
We are stardust, we are golden,
We are billion year old carbon,
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.
Wow....those veiws of Igor from the space station are just plain amazing...
Here is a paper about the various fusion processes in very massive stars.

There is evidence that Betelgeuse has entered the carbon fusion stage some time ago, because the solar surface has become enriched with nitrogen, an incidental product of carbon fusion.

In a star of 15 solar masses

Carbon fusion lasts ~1000 years
Neon fusion lasts about 8 months
Oxygen fusion lasts about 2 1/2 years
Silicon fusion 2-3 weeks.
Iron fusion for one second
then boom!

A 15 solar mass star has luminosity of about 75,000 times the sun. The Hipparchos satellite distance estimate, if accurate, means the luminosity is ~140,000 times the sun. Which means it is a little more massive, and the time scale for each fusion process would be down ~40%.
Quoting Grothar:


Not mine. I got it at Zales Jewelry.
:) :) :) I can't breathe!!!!
Quoting sunlinepr:
Are there any possibility of Neutrino Shower as cause of Earth’s end?

Since *most* neutrinos can pass all the way through the Earth with no interaction at all, even an increase in the neutrino density *probably* would have little to no effect. Right now, millions to billions are passing through your body, and untold *zillions* through the bulk of Earth itself.

Only in the event of a nearby supernova. Only supernovas produce so many neutrinos that it becomes deadly. In 1987, there was a supernova in the Large Magellanic Cloud that made all our neutrino detectors go off the scale.

Gazillions of neutrinos are zooming right through my body as we speak, and I feel just fine. Same with the Earth.



Netrinos are almost massless, weakly interacting particles. Before they had any noticeable impact on Earth, you would need an incredible amount of neutrinos. In fact, by the time you got enough neutrinos flowing through Earth to start affecting it, everything on Earth would already be dead (if not vaporized) as the event required to produce that kind of neutrino flux would most likely have at least radioactively (if not thermally) scoured the planet.
Is GW going to alter Hurricane Seasons? Are we going to see hurricanes more frequent in off season months? (Feb/Mar/Apr??)

Global warming is affecting the seasons. Autumn and winter are coming later in many places; spring is coming earlier. If you look at a typical lake or maybe a stream in the far North it melts earlier in the spring and it freezes later in the fall. The very timing of the seasons is changing such that the food sources for some insects and birds are not in the places they are supposed to be when the migrations of these creatures arrive at the place where they are expected to be fed. And so, the very timing of nature and the seasons is being upset by global warming.

If GW is true, and seasons are going to be affected, Time will tell us the anwser....

No. of hurricanes per month Link
Sleepy time for me...... enjoy....

We do know that the rotational axis of Betelgeuse is not aimed in our direction, so energy jets released at the poles would not be aimed in our direction.
Quoting xcool:
i've been so busy


How's the baby doing?
Quoting Quadrantid:


If I remember right, that's an idea based on one explanation for gamma ray bursters -- which are one of nature's many poorly explained phenomena :) Essentially, when people started observing gamma rays, they noticed occasional bursts of them from random directions in space, which couldn't be associated with anything we knew. If I remember right, the first suggestions were that they were something very near the Earth (and hence had really tiny luminosities - they were bright because they were nearby). People have since come to the conclusion that, instead, they're incredibly distant (and hence among the most luminous things ever observed). One of the leading theories is that some supernovae (I think those caused by the merging/collision of two neutron stars, though again don't quote me on that - long time since I read about this) emit the great majority of their energy in a tight beam, out from their poles (such beaming isn't unprecedented -- it's something people have discussed with quasars, radio galaxies, and is also something people suggest is a mass loss route for stars as they form). If you're aligned with that beam, then you see a burst of radiation, when it reaches you -- the gamma ray burst. The idea is that the chance of such alignment with Earth is tiny, and the collision events are really rare, which is why even in a universe as large as ours, we see very few of these events (and those we've seen to date are right on the edge of the observable universe). If one happened nearby (say, in our galaxy), and was perfectly aligned, we'd have problems :) At least, that's the idea as best I remember it :) Whether it's widely accepted is another matter - it isn't really my field, so I couldn't tell you :)


The other events that can result in similar situations (though they are not "bursts" is if a rotating black hole is polar aligned with your solar system. Such black holes emit intense beams of x-ray radiation from the poles. If they happen to be aligned with your solar system and are either close enough or powerful enough, the can radioactively cleanse the whole system.

The chances of this happening are practically zero.
Quoting Xyrus2000:


As a side note to the informative summary, fusion is only energy positive up to iron...


Tell that to these people, who claim to have made a cold fusion reactor using nickel (heavier than iron and the most stable element, radioactive isotopes aside in terms of binding energy):

Hydrogen/Nickel cold fusion probable mechanism

I think that is another hoax though; here is a graph of binding energies; energy is released when the binding energy increases in the byproducts of fusion or fission.

892. xcool
Grothar .good 1 year old now
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:


Keeper, know u have special powers...Please keep all clouds off my area for a few days...
Quoting MichaelSTL:


Tell that to these people, who claim to have made a cold fusion reactor using nickel (heavier than iron and the most stable element, radioactive isotopes aside in terms of binding energy):

Hydrogen/Nickel cold fusion probable mechanism

I think that is another hoax though; here is a graph of binding energies; energy is released when the binding energy increases in the byproducts of fusion or fission.



Did cold fusion ever get confirmed? let me see.
Cold fusion was never confirmed. Besides if it were, it would be in high school physics labs quickly. When high temperature superconductors were discovered back in 86 they were easy to make, although twitchy.
898. xcool
bye
Quoting xcool:
bye


Good night...take care :)
night x cool.

Cold fusion hung on for a while. I remember it being on the news back in like 86.
Quoting xcool:
Grothar .good 1 year old now


Whoa. Unbelievable. The years go by fast, enjoy them while you can. I had to miss most of their growing up years. Can't get it back. Glad to see your back too.
Quoting sunlinepr:
Is GW going to alter Hurricane Seasons? Are we going to see hurricanes more frequent in off season months? (Feb/Mar/Apr??)

Global warming is affecting the seasons. Autumn and winter are coming later in many places; spring is coming earlier. If you look at a typical lake or maybe a stream in the far North it melts earlier in the spring and it freezes later in the fall. The very timing of the seasons is changing such that the food sources for some insects and birds are not in the places they are supposed to be when the migrations of these creatures arrive at the place where they are expected to be fed. And so, the very timing of nature and the seasons is being upset by global warming.

If GW is true, and seasons are going to be affected, Time will tell us the anwser....

No. of hurricanes per month Link


From what I've read on the subject, there may be an uptick in the number of hurricanes initially, but then there will be fewer (but more powerful) hurricanes overall. This is due to the projected increases in shear over the tropical regions as a result of warming.

The shear will help prevent hurricanes, but if anything manages to get organized there will be plenty of energy to tap.

There's a couple of papers on the subject, but it's fairly new research.
Quoting MichaelSTL:


Tell that to these people, who claim to have made a cold fusion reactor using nickel (heavier than iron and the most stable element, radioactive isotopes aside in terms of binding energy):

Hydrogen/Nickel cold fusion probable mechanism

I think that is another hoax though; here is a graph of binding energies; energy is released when the binding energy increases in the byproducts of fusion or fission.



After reading through the post, it seems he is relying on a "mini-hydrogen" phenomena that may or may not exist. There also seems to be considerable uncertainties about the resulting energies and products.

However I should clarify my previous statement. Fusing iron (Fe+Fe) is a net energy negative transaction. Doing unequal product fusion (say in this case Nickel and Hydrogen) produce energy according to their binding energies).

The other issue is, as has always been the case, scalability. Believe it or not, achieving fusion is fairly easy. Achieving fusion that produces more energy than you put into it is very hard. Admittedly the posting is rather short, but I surmise that even IF the fusion reaction would take place as described, it would only be useful as a radiation source, not an energy source.
Quoting JFLORIDA:
night x cool.

Cold fusion hung on for a while. I remember it being on the news back in like 86.


Close. 1989. Wikipedia has a decent article and shows how bad science gets caught.

In short, cold fusion has yet to be shown as anything more than a pipe dream. There have been a lot of claims but no consistently repeatable experiments have ever come to light. The DOE has determined cold fusion research to be a waste, and won't fund any such proposals.

But it would be nice though. :)
Major Winter Storm could strike North Carolina to Maine next week.
Quoting Walshy:
Major Winter Storm could strike North Carolina to Maine next week.


Still a whole lot of model discrepancy on track of low and qpf. Another wait and see situation.
Fiji Meteorological Services
Tropical Disturbance Summary
TROPICAL DISTURBANCE 07F
18:00 PM FST January 21 2011
======================================

At 6:00 AM UTC, Tropical Disturbance 07F (998 hPa) located at 21.8S 163.0W is reported as moving southeast at 15 knots. Position POOR based on multispectral infrared/enhanced infrared imagery with animation and peripheral surface observations. Sea surface temperature is around 30C.

Gale Force Winds
=================
Northwest winds 30-35 knots within 80 to 150 miles away from the center in the southeastern quadrant

Organization has improved much in the last 12 hours. Convection is displaced to the east of the low level circulation center. System lies under an upper diffluent region in a moderately sheared environment. Cyclonic circulation extends up to 500 HPA.

Global models have picked up the system and gradually moving it southeastward with slight intensification.

The potential for this tropical disturbance to form into a tropical cyclone within the next 24-36 hours is MODERATE.
Fiji Meteorological Services
Tropical Disturbance Summary
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 06F
21:00 PM FST January 21 2011
========================================

At 9:00 AM UTC, Tropical Depression 06F (1001 hPa) located near 14.7S 176.9W is reported as moving slowly. Position POOR based on multispectral infrared/enhanced infrared imagery with animation and peripheral surface observations. Sea surface temperature is around 30C.

Overall organization has slightly improved past 12 hours. Convection has increased over the center in the last 6 hours. System lies under an upper diffluent region in a moderate sheared environment. Cyclonic circulation extends to 500 HPA.

Global models have picked up the system and gradually moves it southeastward with some intensification.

The potential for this tropical depression to develop into a tropical cyclone within the next 24-48 hours is HIGH.
Quoting DontAnnoyMe:


Still a whole lot of model discrepancy on track of low and qpf. Another wait and see situation.



Sent you a message. :)

This morning they came into much better agreement. Rumor has it this storm could compare to the 1993 blizzard for North Carolina or New England.
910. IKE
Mild winter in the SE USA huh?

Today: Cloudy, then gradually becoming mostly sunny, with a high near 50. North wind between 5 and 15 mph.

Tonight: Mostly clear, with a low around 25. Calm wind becoming north northwest around 5 mph.

Saturday: Sunny, with a high near 52. Calm wind becoming northwest around 5 mph.

Saturday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 24. Calm wind.

Sunday: Sunny, with a high near 55. Calm wind becoming southeast around 5 mph.

911. IKE
5 day QPF...

JFlorida writes:
They should arrest people just for mentioning 2012.


What else should people be arrested for? Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.
Morn'n Ike.

Looks like there's a lot of winter left. I'm still mongering for my Gulf Coast Blizzard!
914. IKE
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
JFlorida writes:
They should arrest people just for mentioning 2012.


What else should people be arrested for? Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.


lol

........................

Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Morn'n Ike.

Looks like there's a lot of winter left. I'm still mongering for my Gulf Coast Blizzard!


Keep your fingers crossed!
Good Morning, what a lovely day, more rain in wcfl. Hey doug i wont get arrested for say that will i?
Morning all. Some interesting stuff about stargazing on the blog overnight; pretty high-brow, too, for a pleasant change.... lol

Looks like another front pushes through the GoM and the FL peninsula today. It's remarkably humid here - feels like March 21, not Jan 21 - so I'm very interested to see what happens with this FROPA...

Have a good day, everybody.... and HEY! it's Friday! there's gotta be something good in the forecast for u... like the weekend....LOL
Strong-- La Nina NAO-- Still strongly negative! SE still cold and wet. Well at least the NAO aint broke. Will you be arrested with a misdameaner or felony charge for mentioning 2012?
Quoting HadesGodWyvern:
Fiji Meteorological Services
Tropical Disturbance Summary
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 06F
21:00 PM FST January 21 2011
========================================

At 9:00 AM UTC, Tropical Depression 06F (1001 hPa) located near 14.7S 176.9W is reported as moving slowly. Position POOR based on multispectral infrared/enhanced infrared imagery with animation and peripheral surface observations. Sea surface temperature is around 30C.

Overall organization has slightly improved past 12 hours. Convection has increased over the center in the last 6 hours. System lies under an upper diffluent region in a moderate sheared environment. Cyclonic circulation extends to 500 HPA.

Global models have picked up the system and gradually moves it southeastward with some intensification.

The potential for this tropical depression to develop into a tropical cyclone within the next 24-48 hours is HIGH.
Morning HGW.... not surprising to see the Fiji area so active this year.... that la nina has quite different impacts over the WPac than it does over the EPac...
Looks like there may be an upward tick for a positive NAO for the SE Gulf Coast in Feb. Maybe some of that Warmer dryer winter forecast will come true, for the second half of winter? We will see.
my weekend forecast north tampa
weekend - cooler temps with a 100% chance of great footbal games and a 75% chance of drinking too much beer

(the above is based on 7 years of legal beer drinking ability and nearly 28 years of football watching)
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
JFlorida writes:
They should arrest people just for mentioning 2012.


What else should people be arrested for? Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

LOL. If some had it their way, we'd all be behind bars!

Morning to all. Falls International Airport in Northern MN -38 degrees. Thanks, but I'll pass. At least daylight is increasing noticably.

Looks like we're in for some more rain IKE. No complaints here.



Off to work. Ya'll have a good day!
Quoting oceanminded:
my weekend forecast north tampa
weekend - cooler temps with a 100% chance of great footbal games and a 75% chance of drinking too much beer

(the above is based on 7 years of legal beer drinking ability and nearly 28 years of football watching)

Now THAT'S a forecast I can live with.
Good Morning all.

Some days are Diamonds.....

This one is up there somewhere.
Overnight showers have left Sparkles on everything. A zillion prisms dancing to birdsong and stuff.
Hope that everyone has a Good One.
cat 5 you speak the truth, good weekend everyone!

none but ourselves can free our minds....
International Falls: -38
Naples: 68

A difference of 106 degrees. Wow. I've been in air that cold; I'll take 68, thank you.

Speaking of temperature differences: in the past five days, record daily highs and high minimums have outnumbered record daily lows and low minimums by a very lopsided 398 to 14 across the United States. (Over the past six days, that high record/low record ratio has been 439 to 42.) We'll likely see more record cold temperatures tonight and into tomorrow to balance things a bit, but for now, January continues to impress not with its cold but with its heat.
International Falls

Statement as of 3:14 AM CST on January 21, 2011


... Extreme cold warning remains in effect until 10 am CST this
morning...

* temperature: temperatures around 40 below early this
morning... especially near the Canadian border... will gradually
improve.

* Frostbite times: frostbite affects exposed skin of a healthy
adult in less than 5 minutes. The elderly and Young children
are especially susceptible to the cold.

* Impacts: pets and livestock are also affected by extreme cold
temperatures.

Precautionary/preparedness actions...

An extreme cold warning means dangerous and potentially life-
threatening extreme cold temperatures are expected for a
prolonged period of time. Make sure you dress with several layers
of clothes designed for extreme cold conditions... and avoid
sweating if you are outdoors as this can lead to a faster onset of
hypothermia.

Less than 5 minutes and you get frostbite.  That is insane.  I doubt anyone living there believes in global warming, lol.
Statement as of 6:50 am CST on January 21, 2011


... Frigid temperatures chill the Northland...

The following are observed low temperatures through 630 am Friday
January 21 2011.


Temp location St County source
---- ----------------------- -- -------------- -------
-46 International Falls MN Koochiching ASOS
-43 Embarrass MN St Louis coop
-43 Bigfork MN Itasca RAWS
-43 ashlake MN Koochiching mndot
-43 Effie MN Itasca RAWS
-40 Birchdale MN Koochiching mndot
-38 Crane Lake MN St Louis AWOS
-37 Minong WI Washburn RAWS
-37 Hill City MN Itasca RAWS
-36 Longville MN Cass AWOS
-36 Pine River MN Cass AWOS
-36 Seagull Lake MN Cook RAWS
-36 Ely MN St Louis RAWS
-36 Wright MN St Louis coop
-33 Grand Rapids MN Itasca AWOS
-33 McGregor MN Aitkin AWOS
-33 Aitkin MN Aitkin AWOS
-33 Hibbing MN St Louis RAWS
-31 Hayward WI Sawyer RAWS
-31 Moose Lake MN Carlton AWOS
-30 Siren WI Burnett AWOS
-26 Two Harbors MN lake AWOS
-26 Silver Bay MN lake AWOS
-24 Duluth MN St Louis ASOS

Meanwhile, in Key West: 74
Quoting Neapolitan:
International Falls: -38
Naples: 68

A difference of 106 degrees. Wow. I've been in air that cold; I'll take 68, thank you.

Speaking of temperature differences: in the past five days, record daily highs and high minimums have outnumbered record daily lows and low minimums by a very lopsided 398 to 14 across the United States. (Over the past six days, that high record/low record ratio has been 439 to 42.) We'll likely see more record cold temperatures tonight and into tomorrow to balance things a bit, but for now, January continues to impress not with its cold but with its heat.



About 10 years ago, I left Rapid City, SD and it was -22 (wind chill I think). I got back to Tampa and it was 80. That was a bit of an adjustment.
Quoting HIPPOCRITT:
Statement as of 6:50 am CST on January 21, 2011


... Frigid temperatures chill the Northland...

The following are observed low temperatures through 630 am Friday
January 21 2011.


Temp location St County source
---- ----------------------- -- -------------- -------
-46 International Falls MN Koochiching ASOS
-43 Embarrass MN St Louis coop
-43 Bigfork MN Itasca RAWS
-43 ashlake MN Koochiching mndot
-43 Effie MN Itasca RAWS
-40 Birchdale MN Koochiching mndot
-38 Crane Lake MN St Louis AWOS
-37 Minong WI Washburn RAWS
-37 Hill City MN Itasca RAWS
-36 Longville MN Cass AWOS
-36 Pine River MN Cass AWOS
-36 Seagull Lake MN Cook RAWS
-36 Ely MN St Louis RAWS
-36 Wright MN St Louis coop
-33 Grand Rapids MN Itasca AWOS
-33 McGregor MN Aitkin AWOS
-33 Aitkin MN Aitkin AWOS
-33 Hibbing MN St Louis RAWS
-31 Hayward WI Sawyer RAWS
-31 Moose Lake MN Carlton AWOS
-30 Siren WI Burnett AWOS
-26 Two Harbors MN lake AWOS
-26 Silver Bay MN lake AWOS
-24 Duluth MN St Louis ASOS

Meanwhile, in Key West: 74

There is cold, then there is "holy >beep! It is COLD!"
Quoting Xyrus2000:


You are quite the artful troll, aren't you? Deflecting the question without providing so much as a URL. I applaud you, and give you a tip of my hat sir.

However, I do take offense for you claiming things I never said. At no time did I state that all the bloggers here are ignorant. I didn't even use the word ignorant, which has significantly different connotations. I said the general populace is not as well educated when compared to other developed nations, which is true according to PISA.

The general populace does not come onto blogs such as this to discuss the weather dynamics of cyclonic systems, nor the merits of scientific research in regards to meteorology and climatology. The general populace is on Facebook discussing contestants on American Idol, not on weather sites discussing temperature records and extreme weather phenomena induced by La Nina/El Nino.

As I stated, searching for the terms "French Nuclear Power" in Google does not turn up anything to discredit what I said. In fact, the number one link takes you here, which gives a very detailed of France's nuclear power. Or you can go to the second link from that search here, which provides a more concise overview.

Once again I ask, can you site a source for your information? But we both know the answer to that question.


Ah yes, Master X troll, the answer is in two parts. Yes I can cite it; no, I will not.

I refer you to the last part of this post.

The two you cited clearly avoided the discussion of several hurdles that the French admit must be dealt with for the program to be complete. Those hurdles are very serious and even they admit to not knowing the details.

It amazes me how people like you can simply skip past the details, march directly to the sales promo and call it FACT.

BTW - Wikipedia is not necessarily a very dependable source for 'complete' data on such subjects. Even they admit to that.

Like I said in a previous post.

Folks, the information is out there for you to read.

Cut and Paste the following phrase into Google Search -

reprocessing nuclear waste France


Decide for yourself.


934. IKE
Quoting cat5hurricane:

LOL. If some had it their way, we'd all be behind bars!

Morning to all. Falls International Airport in Northern MN -38 degrees. Thanks, but I'll pass. At least daylight is increasing noticably.

Looks like we're in for some more rain IKE. No complaints here.


It's 40.3 at my location. Clearing up shortly. Had .05 inches of rain over night.
Good morning.
Woke up at 3 a.m. to the dog pawing at me and a jaw clenching lightning strike right outside the window.
Still loving this rain. We need it!
TGIF. Have to drive near Orlando now.
Happy Friday everyone.
Quoting MichaelSTL:


That would certainly be a big bang, to say the least:


(it is hard to see, but the Sun is shown on the lower left as 1 pixel, and as you can see, there are even bigger stars)

Not to worry though, from the same article:

But doomsday sayers should be careful about speculation on this one. If the star does go super-nova, Earth will be showered with harmless particles, according to Carter. "They will flood through the Earth and bizarrely enough, even though the supernova we see visually will light up the night sky, 99 per cent of the energy in the supernova is released in these particles that will come through our bodies and through the Earth with absolutely no harm whatsoever," he told news.com.au.

In fact, a neutrino shower could be beneficial to Earth. According to Carter this "star stuff" makes up the universe. "It literally makes things like gold, silver - all the heavy elements - even things like uranium....a star like Betelgeuse is instantly forming for us all sorts of heavy elements and atoms that our own Earth and our own bodies have from long past supernovi," said Carter.
Howdy all...a bit brisk on the beach this morning
Quoting Grothar:


Ready for some storms today?
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JFLORIDA
This blog has been banned by WunderBlogAdmin.

Surprised, and not surprised, at the same time.
Quoting oceanminded:
my weekend forecast north tampa
weekend - cooler temps with a 100% chance of great footbal games and a 75% chance of drinking too much beer

(the above is based on 7 years of legal beer drinking ability and nearly 28 years of football watching)


I'd have to respectfully disagree. The latest runs of the LBL (Local Liquor and Beer) model agrees with you about the games, but puts the probability of drinking too much closer to 100%, with 110% chance of hangovers and an 80% chance of "promising never to do that again". There is also a 50% chance of "why am I sleeping in this bush?", a 30% chance of "where are my pants?", a 15% chance of "Hey that's funny, this looks like a jail cell." and a 10% chance "who the heck is this sleeping next to me, and why aren't they wearing any clothes?".

For those that are married, also be prepared for 50-100% chance "Oh no, you ARE NOT going to go out drinking with your football buddies again!"
Quoting scott39:
Strong-- La Nina NAO-- Still strongly negative! SE still cold and wet. Well at least the NAO aint broke. Will you be arrested with a misdameaner or felony charge for mentioning 2012?


The PNA is currently positive, which means cold in the SE (also, a La Nina is supposed to mean a negative PNA, with a ridge instead of a trough):





Ironically, it went positive as the NAO also rose, thus canceling it out (the NAO is dropping again, thus they are both in a cold mode for the SE; note that until mid-December, the PNA was actually opposing the NAO SE trough):

Quoting atmoaggie:
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JFLORIDA
This blog has been banned by WunderBlogAdmin.

Surprised, and not surprised, at the same time.

Yeah, it sorta puts the lid on all that nonsense about WU giving preferential treatment to only pro-AGW folks, while silencing those against it, doesn't it? ;-)
Quoting caneswatch:


Ready for some storms today?


Yes.

calusakat,

That first link on google is from a website that has a severe conservative tilt. Reprocessing nuclear fuel is not as "simple" as just taking the used fuel and making it new again. Yes, nuclear reactors use only 3-6% of the fuel put in. What is not mentioned is that of the fuel put in... an average of 4% of that is fissile U-235. (way to not give all the info there)

They also produce a large amount of highly hazardous fission products, including Strontium-90 (which can take the place of Calcium in bones and other organisms), Caesium-135 (which has a long half-life, and can remain in soil for a long time), and isotopes of Iodine, Xenon, and Barium. To fully reprocess fuel, all of these isotopes must be disposed of, and the remaining fuel re-enriched to sustain a nuclear reaction. IIRC, the French reprocessing procedure does increase costs 6%... over what new fuel will cost.

Furthermore, reactors in the US are some of the most efficient in the world, and new, more efficient and safer designs are constantly being developed.

So, yes, spent fuel can be reprocessed, but its not as simple as recycling a plastic milk jug. In nuclear reactions, matter is destroyed to create energy. It has to do with that E=mc^2 thing. You know, the amount of energy created equals the mass of the material times the speed of light squared. This means :

So one gram of mass is equivalent to the following amounts of energy:

89.9 terajoules
25.0 million kilowatt-hours (≈25 GW·h)
21.5 billion kilocalories (≈21 Tcal)
21.5 kilotons of TNT-equivalent energy (≈21 kt)
85.2 billion BTUs
(from Wikipedia)
Quoting Neapolitan:

Yeah, it sorta puts the lid on all that nonsense about WU giving preferential treatment to only pro-AGW folks, while silencing those against it, doesn't it? ;-)


He broke the rules somewhere doesn't surprise me.

But why didn't you answer my question yesterday you just ran off?
Clouds still locked in here in SE TX and holding just above the freezing mark after 9AM
Area forecast discussion
National Weather Service Raleigh NC
615 am EST Friday Jan 21 2011


Also to be considered... the parent high before the storm is
forecast to be in position to deliver very cold dry air into our
region before the storm develops. Even if hybrid or non classical
damming develops (which appears likely)... with a progressive
surface high - there would still be that initial cold air to deal
with. Then... the storm itself will generate its own cold air
(examples include the March 93 superstorm on the extreme and the
Christmas 2010 snow).

Quoting atmoaggie:
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JFLORIDA
This blog has been banned by WunderBlogAdmin.

Surprised, and not surprised, at the same time.


Going back, it appears a number of blog entries were removed last night. Must have been something.
Quoting atmoaggie:
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JFLORIDA
This blog has been banned by WunderBlogAdmin.

Surprised, and not surprised, at the same time.
Considering he personally attacks everyone that posts something against his beliefs i'm not surprised.  I think Wunderground did us all a favor. 


Hudson Bay and most of the Hudson Strait have now frozen over. However the eastern Davis Strait, coast of Labrador and outlet of Jakobshavn Isbrae still remain unseasonably unfrozen!
Quoting Grothar:


Going back, it appears a number of blog entries were removed last night. Must have been something.


I have so many on "the list" I couldn't tell LOL. The rain will be doing this soon:

NEW BLOG
NASA Study Shows Sun Responsible for Planet Warming

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/06/nasa-study-shows-sun-responsible-for-planet-warming/