# Wobbles in the Barriers: Arctic Oscillation (4)

By: Dr. Ricky Rood , 4:22 PM GMT on October 14, 2013

Wobbles in the Barriers: Arctic Oscillation (4)

This is a continuation of my series on the Arctic Oscillation / North Atlantic Oscillation. Links to background material and previous entries are at the end.

In the last entry I suggested that if you were on a bridge overlooking a swiftly flowing creek then you would notice that twigs floating in the water did not move across the current. They are carried downstream along the edge of the current. The purpose of that comparison was to demonstrate how fast-moving, concentrated flows have the effect of isolating one side of the creek from the other. This is true in the creek, and it is also true about jet streams in the atmosphere.

One way to understand the Arctic Oscillation is to think of it as the variation of an atmospheric jet stream. For the Arctic Oscillation the jet stream of interest is the southern edge of vortex of air that circulates around the North Pole (see previous entry). Air inside the vortex often has characteristics different from air outside it. Intuitively for the Arctic, there is colder air on the side toward the pole. If you look at trace gases, like ozone, they are different across the edge of the vortex. The takeaway idea is that the edge of the vortex is a barrier. It’s not a perfect barrier, but the air on one side is largely separated from the air on the other side. In this blog, I describe the difference between a strong and a weak vortex – which is the same as the difference between the positive and negative phases of the Arctic Oscillation and the North Atlantic Oscillation.

Figure 1: This figure is from the point of view of someone looking down from above at the North Pole (NP). Compare this perspective to Figure 1 in previous blog. This represents a strong, circular vortex centered over the pole, which encloses cold air, represented as blue. The line surrounding the cold air is the jet stream or the edge of the vortex.

Figure 1 shows an idealized schematic of the North Pole as viewed from above. This is the strong vortex case, when there is exceptionally low pressure at the pole. Low pressure is associated with counterclockwise rotation in the Northern Hemisphere. This direction of rotation is called cyclonic. This strong vortex case is the positive phase of the Arctic Oscillation. During this phase, the vortex aligns strongly with the rotation of the Earth, and there are relatively few wobbles of the edge of the vortex – the jet stream. I drew on the figure two points, X and Y. In this case, the point X is hot and the point Y is cold. It is during this phase when it is relatively warm and moist over, for example, the eastern seaboard of the United States.

Figure 2 compares a strong vortex and a weak vortex. In both cases, the circulation around a central point is counterclockwise or cyclonic. However, in the weak vortex case, the vortex does not align as strongly with the rotation of the Earth and there are places where the edge of vortex extends southwards. The vortex appears displaced from the pole; it is not centered over the pole.

Figure 2: Examples of a strong, circular vortex and a weak, more wavy vortex. See text for a more complete description.

Whether the vortex is stronger or weaker is determined by the atmospheric pressure at the pole. In the winter, an important factor that determines the circulation is the cooling that occurs at polar latitudes during the polar night.

What determines the waviness or wobbles at the edge of this vortex? The structure at the edge of vortex is strongly influenced by several factors. These factors include the structure of the high-pressure centers that are over the oceans and continents to the south of jet stream. One could easily imagine a strong high-pressure center over, for example, Iceland, pushing northward at the edge of the vortex. This might push a lobe of air characteristic of the middle latitude Atlantic Ocean northward. Since the edge of the vortex is something of a barrier, this high-pressure system would distort the edge of the vortex and, perhaps, push the vortex off the pole. This would appear as a displacement of the vortex and its cold air over, for example, Russia. If the high grew and faded, then this would appear as wobbles of the vortex.

Other factors that influence the waviness at the edge of the vortex are the mountain ranges and the thermal contrast between the continents and the oceans. The impact of mountains is easy to understand. Returning to the creek comparison used above, the mountains are like a boulder in the stream. The water bulges around and over the boulder; the air in the atmosphere bulges around and over the mountain ranges. The Rocky Mountains in the western half of North America are perfect examples of where there are often wobbles in the atmospheric jet stream.

Figure 3: This figure is from the point of view of someone looking down from above at the North Pole (NP). This represents a weak, wavy, wobbly vortex displaced from the pole. The vortex encloses cold air, represented as blue. The line surrounding the cold air is the jet stream or the edge of the vortex. (definition of vortex)

Figure 3 shows an idealized schematic of the North Pole as viewed from above. This is the weak vortex case, when the low pressure at the pole is not as low as average and the pressure is much higher than the strong vortex case of Figure 1. This weak vortex case is the negative phase of the Arctic Oscillation. During this phase, the alignment of the vortex with the rotation of the Earth is less prominent, and there are wobbles of the edge of the vortex – the jet stream. In this case, the point X is cold and the point Y is hot. It is during this phase where it is relatively cool and dry (but potentially snowy) over, for example, the eastern part of the United States.

These figures help to explain the prominent signal of the Arctic Oscillation discussed in the earlier entries (specifically, this blog). That is, when the vortex is weak and wobbly, then there are excursions of colder air to the south and warmer air to the north. This appears as waviness and is an important pattern of variability - warm, cold, warm, cold.

The impact of the changes in the structure of edge of the vortex does not end with these persistent periods of regional warm and cold spells. The edge of the vortex or the jet stream is also important for steering storms. Minimally, therefore, these changes in the edge of the vortex are expected to change the characteristics of how storms move. Simply, if the edge of the vortex has large northward and southward extensions, then storms take a longer time to move, for example, across the United States from the Pacific to the Atlantic Oceans. In the positive phase of the Arctic Oscillation they just whip across. In the negative phase, the storms wander around a bit. A more complete discussion of this aspect of the role of the Arctic Oscillation will be in the next entry. (Note use of dramatic tension and the cliffhanger strategy of the serial.)

r

Previous entries:

Barriers in the Atmosphere
Behavior
Definitions and Some Background

August Arctic Oscillation presentation

CPC Climate Glossary “The Arctic Oscillation is a pattern in which atmospheric pressure at polar and middle latitudes fluctuates between negative and positive phases.”

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Display: 0, 50, 100, 200 Sort: Newest First - Order Posted

Viewing: 1457 - 1407

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30Blog Index

##### 1457. pcola57
 Quoting 1455. Birthmark:CO2 doesn't preferentially warm the poles. Arctic amplification is complex and cannot be attributed to CO2 alone.Um, no. While the arctic has warmed since 1976, so have large parts of the Antarctic. So if you are implying some sort of back and forth...well, there's no there, there.If we look at the period from 1944 to 1976 we find that the entire Northern Hemisphere cooled, not just the Arctic. Aerosols from industry were the primary culprit in that cooling.I believe it has mad a differnce....Here in the US they are outlawed..Should be worldwide..But I don't know if GreenPeace or scientists have been monitoring them..I'm just throwing my not so learned opinion and observation out there..I can take criticism and correction as "I'm a learning".. :)I'm a AGW believer and the data is overwhelming to a point that it's harder for me to understand a dissenting opinion on the subject..I can agree to disagree..But seems to me anyway..That, for an example, when a road is built through a town and it is pointed at my house,Do I deny it?Do I move out of the way?The situation Must be resolved..It is a tangible fact that I cannot ignore..I must resolve and find a solution to the problem..Same with AGW..Hard Data..check..Scientific integrity..check..Tangible threat..check..Cannot be ignored..check..Positive response worldwide..Nope..It is what it is..We should have collected our sharpest minds and resolved this matter long ago and haved moved on to other pressing issues that face humanity..
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1456. azucas
 " While the arctic has warmed since 1976, so have large parts of the Antarctic"Only the Antarctic peninsula." Aerosols from industry were the primary culprit in that cooling."Do you really believe aerosols from industry have diminished since 1976?
##### 1454. azucas
 Getting back to the so called arctic oscillation, the Russians came up with an index for this in the sixties and NOAA had an index as well long before anyone pretended we understood it and called it the arctic oscillation.Compared to Antarctica with its impressive vortex, the northern hemisphere is guaranteed by geography to be far more subject to high amplitude Rossby waves.Since it is the temperature gradient from the equator to the poles that provides the potential energy for strong circulation, a warming arctic would reduce the gradient and increase the likelihood of polar outbreaks.But why would well mixed Carbon dioxide preferentially warm the poles and ignore the rest of the atmosphere? Why did the Arctic warm from 1976 to the present, the Antarctic from 1944 to 76, and the Arctic again from 1917 to 44; while the opposite pole cooled?Time to look at the bigger picture.
##### 1453. Astrometeor
 Quoting 1452. RickyRood:I'm back ... disk crashed ... sorry to lose all of the comments on the last blog ... will repost that, then the new one.It's okay Professor. After what happened to all of WU during a severe weather outbreak...I accept your resignation (Just kidding!).Thanks, it's nice to see this blog back up.
##### 1452. RickyRood
 I'm back ... disk crashed ... sorry to lose all of the comments on the last blog ... will repost that, then the new one.
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1451. Skyepony (Mod)
 Quoting 1448. cyclonebuster:Why is Dr. Roods blog down?I don't know but it looks like they plan on fixing it.Doug~ Oh it is..We noted it but you might want to submit a support ticket to help it go quicker.AR is about to throw down with it's big energy people over solar..
##### 1450. JohnLonergan
 Australian Temperature Deciles 1 November 2012 to 31 October 2013
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
 Good question.Mine got obliterated yesterday too.
##### 1447. Skyepony (Mod)
 Since 1993, measurements from the TOPEX and Jason series of satellite radar altimeters have allowed estimates of global mean sea level. These measurements are continuously calibrated against a network of tide gauges. When seasonal and other variations are subtracted, they allow estimation of the global mean sea level rate. As new data, models and corrections become available, we continuously revise these estimates (about every two months) to improve their quality.Source is CU
 Test
##### 1444. RevElvis
 Fukushima Daiichi NPS Prompt Report (Nov 18,2013)Immediate release: Fuel removal from Unit 4 spent fuel pool has started at Fukushima Daiichi NPStepco.co.jp
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1443. Patrap
 Welcome back, Kotter'
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1442. Pipejazz
 I have not yet read this new book from Ajit Varki and Danny Brower published 2013 on Denial: Self-Deception, False Beliefs, and the Origins of the Human Mind. This description is intriguing…As a consequence of this evolutionary quirk we now deny any aspects of reality that are not to our liking-we smoke cigarettes, eat unhealthy foods, and avoid exercise, knowing these habits are a prescription for an early death. And so what has worked to establish our species could be our undoing if we continue to deny the consequences of unrealistic approaches to everything from personal health to financial risk-taking to climate change. On the other hand reality-denial affords us many valuable attributes, such as optimism, confidence, and courage in the face of long odds.More here:http://cmm.ucsd.edu/varki/denial/home.html
 RickyRood has created a new entry.
##### 1440. RevElvis
 Nuclear Plant Starts Up On India's Tsunami-Vulnerable Coast (NPR)Seventy-four nuclear reactors in tsunami-risk areas (homelandsecuritynewswire.com - 9/24/2012)"Man deeply asleep, blindly and aimlessly struggling and suffering, torn by war and passion, fouling everything he touches; and yet, through a strange flaw in his nature, clinging ingeniously to the very instruments which wound, the patterns which betray."- G.I. Gurdjieff
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1439. RevElvis
 Exploiting Tomorrow's Solar Eclipse To Help Understand Sea Levels"Tomorrow at dawn on the U.S. East Coast, a partial solar eclipse will rise. Solar eclipses have many uses. They can confirm the Theory of Relativity, allow study of the solar corona, and this week, help prepare for global warming induced sea level rise. The tides induced in the oceans when the Sun and Moon are aligned are particularly high (and low) and give a foretaste of the effects of sea level rise in the coming decades. Maryland's Department of Natural Resources is asking for photos of these King Tides to help with preparation for the effect of sea level rise.SlashDot.org
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1438. Patrap
 Global food supply at severe risk from climate change, warns leaked study by UN-created panelBy Jacob Kastrenakes on November 1, 2013 06:36 pm A scientific panel set up by the United Nations has found that climate change will pose a serious threat to the world's food supply in the coming decades, reports The New York Times. The findings aren't set to be announced until March and are still undergoing editing, but a copy of the report has leaked online. The findings come from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which has been releasing reports on the matter around every six years the Times reports that its 2007 findings were far less foreboding.AGRICULTURAL OUTPUT COULD DROP TWO PERCENT EACH DECADEAccording to the Times, the report says that agricultural output may drop by as much as two percent every decade for the rest of this century, compared to what it would have been without the effects of climate change. Demand for food is reportedly expected to rise 14 percent each decade during that time, exacerbating the food supply issue.The IPCC's study reportedly also finds that the impact of climate change is already being felt worldwide, and that it'll likely intensify as greenhouse gas emissions rise. Evoking scenes from a disaster film, the Times reports that the IPCC's draft warns that many plant and animal species could go extinct as temperatures and sea levels rise. It may not be too late to mitigate the effects, however, by cutting emissions. The study reportedly finds that some of the strongest impacts can still be avoided, though the signs of improvement likely wouldn't be felt until later the century."[The report is] a work in progress," Jonathan Lynn, a spokesman for the IPCC, tells the Times. "We don't have anything to say about the contents. It's likely to change."THE IPCC'S REPORTS CONTINUE TO LEAKThe IPCC has dealt with this kind of leak before, leading to the panel facing sharp criticism of its findings even before their release. Most recently, the panel found that humans were the cause of climate change, a factor that clearly plays heavily in its upcoming report. Though much could still change before its proper release, the Times notes that when another climate change report leaked in August, very little was changed before its publication in September.Efforts are already being taken to address climate change from high in the US government, with President Obama issuing an executive order early today that will have government agencies preparing for its effects. For now, such efforts still fall far from what the IPCC's findings suggest is necessary.
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1437. Patrap
 What happens in Fukushima this Month as to the removal of those spent MOX fuel rod assemblies, may just determine the Future for 4-5 Billion Humans. The best news I can give on this is that the Japanese are finally coming to Washington this week to finalize a co-operative effort with the US leading it. May God guide them in this arduous task, for failure, may jus be too much for Man to overcome. The Genies bottle is open, pray that we can close it.Dangers in removing Fukushima's spent nuclear fuel rods
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1436. JohnLonergan
 Don't mess with Eli Rabbet
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1435. JohnLonergan
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1434. Patrap
 Japan to remove nuclear fuel from Fukushima plantBy Jacob Kastrenakes on November 2, 2013 04:00 pmThe Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant's operator has gained permission to move forward with a plan that would transfer over 1,000 fuel rods to a new location on the site, potentially preventing massive radiation leaks in the future, reports The Wall Street Journal. Around 1,300 spent fuel rods and 200 new fuel rods have been sitting in a pool inside one of the plant's reactors, Unit 4, since it was damaged in March 2011. The four-meter-long rods (around 13 feet) will be pulled out of the plant one at a time by a crane that still needs to be constructed."HANDLING SPENT FUELS INVOLVES HUGE RISKS.""They must be handled one by one," says Shunichi Tanaka, chairman of Japan's Nuclear Regulation Authority, according to the Journal. Tanaka had warned that the process was potentially dangerous because debris from an explosion that had fallen into the pool could damage the rods. "Handling spent fuels involves huge risks. It would be a disaster if radioactive materials comes out of the metal rods during the work." Japan's NRA approved the plan this week, which was put forth by Fukushima's operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO).The rods will be moved to a storage location on the power plant's site, one that should better prevent them from releasing large amounts of radiation into the environment were another disaster to strike, reports the Journal. The work is expected to begin in mid-November once construction on the necessary equipment is complete. "This will be significant milestone for TEPCO and the Japanese government and in the process of decommissioning the site," US Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz says in a statement.Moniz completed a trip to Fukushima on Friday, where he inspected the plant and discussed what progress still needs to be made there. Both Moniz and TEPCO president Naomi Hirose say that their organizations have been working together since the accident occurred, but Hirose notes that their relationship is now strengthening. "We are receiving valuable technological support from this engagement, allowing us to apply leading-edge thinking and experience to our decommissioning efforts," Hirose says in a statement.TEPCO WILL HEAD TO WASHINGTON NEXT WEEK TO DISCUSS THE CLEANUPIn particular, TEPCO and the Department of Energy have been working together to prevent groundwater contamination, to treat and dispose of waste, to remove fuel debris, and to treat contaminated water. The two groups will also meet in Washington next week for a commission focused on Fukushima cleanup, emergency response, and civil nuclear research, among other related matters. "As Japan continues to chart its sovereign path forward on the cleanup at the Fukushima site and works to determine the future of their energy economy," says Muniz, "The United States stands ready to continue assisting our partners in this daunting yet indispensable task."
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1432. RevElvis
 Climate Change Report Sees Violent, Sicker, Poorer Future WASHINGTON (AP) — A leaked draft of an international scientific report forecasts that man-made global warming likely will worsen already existing human tragedies of war, starvation, poverty, flooding, extreme weather and disease.The Nobel Peace Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change will issue a report next March on how global warming is already affecting the way people live and what will happen in the future, including a worldwide drop in income. A leaked copy of a draft of the report's summary appeared online Friday. Governments will spend the next few months making comments about the draft.The report details specific effects of warming and how countries and people can adapt to some of them. The American scientist who heads the report, Chris Field, says experts paint a dramatic contrast of possible futures.HuffingtonPost.com (AP)
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1431. FLwolverine
 It must have been a fun afternoon around here, considering the number of posts that are missing right now - apparently a lot of cooling off was thought necessary!I've been thinking about some of the stuff I've seen posted recently, and I think it's time for a reality check.REALITY: global warming is real, climate change is happening, and the consequences will be (at best!) unpleasant for us, bad for our kids, and downright nasty for our grandkids - not to mention the other 7 billion people on the planet. There is science - lots of science - to support this statement, and there is no science to prove it wrong. The only questions are when, how bad, and is there anything we can do to lessen the effects?I think at least some of the contrarians (Dr Masters' word, I think) who post here know this, deep in their gut, or at least suspect that this is reality. But this is a terrifying reality - god knows it scares me - so naturally people want to avoid accepting it.But the fact is that it doesn't matter how much the contrarians rage and rail against Nea and the rest of us, or how much faux science the contrarians post, or how many lies they repeat, or how much they misread or misinterpret comments made here - none of this matters. It wouldn't even matter if Dr Rood's blog were discontinued and all of us were banned. It doesn't matter because reality is what it is - global warming is real, climate change is happening, and the consequences will be (at best) unpleasant for us, bad for our kids, and downright nasty for our grandkids - and deadly for many (most?) of the other 7 billion people on the planet.
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1430. bappit
 Some models to play with.Here's a link to the Coursera class that uses these models.
##### 1427. Xulonn
 Quoting 1422. yoboi:Roy W. Spencer...blah, blah, blah...Dr. Spencer%u2019s work ...blah, blah, blah...Dr. Spencer%u2019s research...blah, blah, blah...But yet, he has recently been discredited and quite soundly at that. Your defense of Spencer contains no currently relevant information.I knew that you could not respond to the substance of my post - either because of psychological barriers, or because perhaps you are a shill for the denialist industry. Are you going to comment on Dr. Hayhoe, the currently active climate scientist and fundamentalist Christian I referred you to? The one who is married to a prominent fundamentalist pastor, and neither of whom have a problem with accepting AGW/CC? And who is trying to educate evangelical Christians on the truth of AGW/CC?Or are you just in love with Dr. Spencer and his denialism?
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1426. JohnLonergan
 Quoting 1399. JohnLonergan:A couple of posters mentioned energy efficient homes and home heating recently(sorry, but I forgot who it was) and I thought they might find this article in The Guardian interesting:The Passivhaus's fabric-first approach to energy efficiency."Everyone wants a low-energy home, but people focus on accreditation criteria and lose sight of the bigger picture," says architect Piers Taylor said: "It's a one-size-fits-all approach, which can make you blind to the specifics of making one each home appropriate to its context. A house should be simple, and allowed to breathe naturally."These passivhausen from SMITH HYDER certainly contradict the boxy one size fits all criicism:SMITH HYDER GALLERY
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1425. GTstormChaserCaleb
 This one is also a little old...but definitely raises my eyebrows.LinkA bad climate for developmentPoor countries’ economic development will contribute to climate change. But they are already its greatest victimsThe poor are more vulnerable than the rich for several reasons. Flimsy housing, poor health and inadequate health care mean that natural disasters of all kinds hurt them more. When Hurricane Mitch swept through Honduras in 1998, for example, poor households lost 15-20% of their assets but the rich lost only 3%.Global warming aggravates that. It also increases the chances of catching the life-threatening diseases that are more prevalent in poorer countries. In many places cities have been built just above a so-called “malaria line”, above which malaria-bearing mosquitoes cannot survive (Nairobi is one example). Warmer weather allows the bugs to move into previously unaffected altitudes, spreading a disease that is already the biggest killer in Africa. By 2030 climate change may expose 90m more people to malaria in Africa alone. Similarly, meningitis outbreaks in Africa are strongly correlated with drought. Both are likely to increase. Diarrhoea is forecast to rise 5% by 2020 in poor countries because of climate change. Dengue fever has been expanding its range: its incidence doubled in parts of the Americas between 1995-97 and 2005-07. On one estimate, 60% of the world's population will be exposed to the disease by 2070.
##### 1423. JohnLonergan
 Quoting 1417. Xulonn:No, Yoboi, that's not what I said - nice try with the word-twisting, purposeful misinterpretation, denialist technique, however. It's an insult to me, and a transparent piece of b.s.Allowing for a remote - but unlikely - possibility that you have even a tiny bit of honesty in you, I give you a link to and a quote about - religion and science, including climate science: Climate Change Statements from World Religions(p.s. I guarantee that Yoboi is incapable or unwilling to reply to the substance of my reply/comment!)In Spencer's case the problem is not as much his religion as it is his competence; I compiled a list of Spencer publications with links to published rebuttals.Spencer et al. (2007)Lin et al. (2010) [Abs] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S 0022407310001226Spencer & Braswell (2008)Lin et al. (2010) [Abs] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S 0022407310001226Murphy & Forster (2010) [Abs] http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/2010JC LI3657.1Dessler (2010) [Abs, full] http://geotest.tamu.edu/userfiles/216/dessler10b.p df[BLOG] Barry Bickmore http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/roy-spe ncers-great-blunder-part-1/Spencer & Braswell (2009) [Abs]Lin et al. (2010) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S 0022407310001226Spencer & Braswell (2010) [Abs, full]Dessler (2010) [Abs, full] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6010/1523.ab stractSpencer & Braswell (2011) [Abs, full]Dessler (2011) [ full] http://geotest.tamu.edu/userfiles/216/Dessler2011. pdfTrenberth et al. (2011) [full] http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/9/2051/pdf[BLOG] RealClimate http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011 /07/misdiagnosis-of-surface-temperature-feedback/[BLOG] LiveScience http://www.livescience.com/15293-climate-change-cl oud-cover.html[BLOG] Global Warming: Man or Myth? http://profmandia.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/spencer -braswell-2011-proof-that-global-warming-is-exagge rated-or-just-bad-science/Source: AGW OBSERVER
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1419. Xulonn
 Quoting 1406. ncstorm:I rarely post here..hell Dr. Rood barely posts here..this blog has been up for how long??..probably because there is nothing new to report...Gee NC, you come here yet again to insult Dr. Rood? How shameful!Climate normally averages things over a 30 year minimum with efforts to tease out changing trends.How long does a tornado or hurricane last? How quickly does weather change vs. climate? Lots more short term dynamics there, and a big adrenalin rush for storm geeks. This is a blog and discussion about the details of AGW/CC - there is no debate in the scientific world about the fact that it is happening. However, there is a time-consuming and monumental effort by the scientific community to understand AGW/CC, how and how fast it is happening, and what humankind can do to deal with it. If you choose to believe the lies and misinformation spoon-fed to you by the climate denialist industry, fine, but why on earth would you want do promote those dis-proven lies and disinformation at a climate science blog that is based on the fact that AGW/CC is real? There is no debate on the reality of AGW/CC - get over it!
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1418. bappit
 Quoting 1393. ScottLincoln:Adopt a personal policy like mine... flag and minus all troll posts. As stated by a moderator, after 10 flags, a post is hidden.I've unfortunately been doing a lot more of that in recent weeks just to keep the blog thread readable.I have been doing that. The bickering has been getting worse lately though. I'm flagging LOTS of posts, and it has done no good. So I posted my comments about it.
##### 1417. Xulonn
 Quoting 1409. yoboi:So you are saying that if someone attends church they can't be a good/great scientist?????No, Yoboi, that's not what I said - nice try with the word-twisting, purposeful misinterpretation, denialist technique, however. It's an insult to me, and a transparent piece of b.s.Allowing for a remote - but unlikely - possibility that you have even a tiny bit of honesty in you, I give you a link to and a quote about - religion and science, including climate science: Climate Change Statements from World ReligionsThe woman climate scientist in the below quote is married to Dr. Andrew Farley, a well-known evangelical pastor. Younger evangelicals like Dr. Hayhoe "get it" about the reality of AGW/CC. Old, over-the-hill and discredited, sold out scientists like Dr. Roy Spencer are simply shills for the fossil fuel industry.So what do you think of Dr. Hayhoe, Yoboi? Or will you ignore her because her belief in real, evidence based and peer-reviewed science violates your agenda?Quoting Lisa Palmer at the Yale Forum on Climate ChangeNo Pope or Bishop of Canterbury %u2026 So Look to PolsTexas Tech associate professor Katharine Hayhoe is a prominent climate scientist and an expert reviewer for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. A lead author on the upcoming 2014 U.S. National Climate Assessment, she says %u201CThe evangelical world is the last significant holdout on the reality of this issue.%u201D%u201CWhy is that?%u201D asked Hayhoe, an evangelical Christian who spends an increasing amount of time discussing climate change with members of her faith community.%u201DThey don%u2019t have a bishop of Canterbury or a pope to provide guidance. The evangelical church in America looks to their politicians to inform their beliefs rather than looking to their beliefs to inform their politics. It is no accident that every single GOP candidate in the recent primaries one by one openly denied the realities of this issue. There is a vacuum of leadership, and the evangelical community has looked elsewhere. It explains why, if you look at mainline denominations, their perspective on climate change is much different than evangelicals.%u201D(p.s. I guarantee that Yoboi is incapable or unwilling to reply to the substance of my reply/comment!)
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1416. Neapolitan
 Quoting 1413. Torito:Bot check.GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX.Darn. I knew there was a reason I had you on ignore, but I forgot it and pulled you from the list yesterday. Thanks for the reminder.Quoting 1415. yoboi:Neap let's cut the BS about Spencer he has great education and work ethics.....If he did not he would not be allowed to work for NOAA, NASA or the DOE....He clearly says that humans impact the climate by approx 10% at best....He has a level head and does not subject to doom & gloom.....Try Looking at the real science data.....things are changing to a cooler climate.....I will ask you this question.....Did both poles gain Ice this year??????All your statements and questions were answered for you perhaps a hundred dozen times back when you had some here convinced that you were truly curious and willing to learn. But now that we've all known for some time that you're just dishonestly trolling for attention, we'll simply ignore you. Again. Thanks!
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1413. Torito
 Bot check.GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX.
##### 1412. Xandra
 Quoting 1402. Xulonn:[...] Roy Spencer, Like Jeff Masters, is a Ph.D. Meteorologist. However, unlike Dr. Masters, Dr. Spencer has forsaken science in favor of his religious beliefs, and is therefore, like you, he is considered an AGW/CC denialist, and not a true skeptic.The wisdom or lack of, from Dr Roy Spencer PHD.
##### 1411. Neapolitan
 Quoting 1409. yoboi:So you are saying that if someone attends church they can't be a good/great scientist?????No, he's not. Not even close. What he seems to be saying is that when a person rejects scientific evidence simply because it runs counter to his or her superstitious beliefs--as Spencer has done--that person loses scientific credibility.
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1410. JohnLonergan
 Another handy reference for deniers, their affiations and websites:REVEALED: Marc Morano’s Pack Of Climate Denial Jokers
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
##### 1407. Patrap
 In the big scheme of things, for us with Families and a endearing Love of the Earth, the reason we strive to communicate the message of Climate Change is the aforementioned.Quips, low brow mind games and images are fine and all, but when the meat of the matter comes to discussion,we will always side with the known.For the tipping point is not a vague concept, come 450-490ppm CO2, well..I'll be surely dead and buried, but this archive, will hopefully survive.Then the last laugh/word will be softly heard chuckled from a Tomb in NOLAFresca,..?
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:

Viewing: 1457 - 1407

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30Blog Index