The uncertain legacy of Copenhagen

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 8:39 PM GMT on December 22, 2009

The Copenhagen (COP15) climate summit is over, and leaves an uncertain legacy. What was accomplished in Copenhagen was far outweighed by what was not accomplished. While the final Copenhagen Accord affirmed that we must hold the warming of our planet below 2°C above pre-industrial levels by 2100 to avert dangerous climate change, no timetable for accomplishing that goal was specified. The promises made by the various nations at the summit would likely lead to a 3.9°C warming of the planet, according to an analysis by MIT's Sustainability Institute. Copenhagen did demonstrate that the hype preceding the talks was not undeserved--the stakes involved are huge, and we have an epic political battle on our hands that will afford high drama in 2010. Probably the best summary of the political battle at Copenhagen was posted by author Mark Lynas on the UK Guardian's web site. The title of the article was, "How do I know China wrecked the Copenhagen deal? I was in the room".

The leaders for greenhouse gas reductions
While the Copenhagen Summit made it clear that the coming battle will feature the U.S. and China, the voices of two tiny island nations--Tuvalu and The Maldives--will be important as well. When ranked by percentage of population located near the coast at an elevation of ten meters or less, the top five spots are held by small island nations with more than 90% of their population in this Low Elevation Coastal Zone--the Maldives, Marshall Islands, Tuvalu, Cayman Islands, and Turks and Caicos Islands (McGranahan et al., 2007). The very existence of these island nations are threatened by sea level rise due to climate change. The leaders of Tuvalu and The Maldives brought considerable attention to their plight at the Copenhagen conference, and President Mohamed Nasheed of the Maldives, in particular, has made his tiny country a force to be reckoned with in the coming battle.


Figure 1. President Mohamed Nasheed of the Maldives, Vice President Dr Mohamed Waheed and 11 cabinet ministers donned scuba gear and submerged 4 meters below the surface of sea to hold the world's first underwater cabinet meeting on October 17, 2009, in order to dramatize the threat sea level rise poses to their country.

The leaders against greenhouse gas reductions
Canada has joined Saudi Arabia as a leading voice against efforts to control emissions of greenhouse gases. According to The Climate Change Performance Index (CCPI), which is published annually by Germanwatch and CAN-Europe, Canada ranks second to last in climate policy and in overall efforts to tackle climate change, among the 57 industrialized countries and emerging economies that together account for more than 90 per cent of global energy-related CO2 emissions. Canada's national statement at COP15 featured no commitments of money or targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and Canada also lobbied to change the "base" year from when emission reductions should be computed from 1990 to 2006. Croatia was the only other country to support Canada's position. The notorious political pranksters The Yes Men dramatized Canada's position by issuing a phony press release during COP15 claiming that Canada had come to its senses and was now going to work toward a 40 per cent cut in greenhouse gas emissions, the type of cut scientists say is necessary if we are to avoid dangerous warming of more than 2°C over pre-industrial levels. Canadian reporters immediately recognized the news release as a hoax. Canadian politics is heavily dominated by the fossil fuel industry, and Canadian reporters immediately saw the impossibility of the Canadian government performing an about-face on climate policy.


Figure 2. The top ten and bottom ten performing countries on the Climate Change Performance Index (CCPI), published annually by Germanwatch and CAN-Europe to rank the efforts to combat climate change of the 57 industrialized countries and emerging economies that together account for more than 90 per cent of global energy-related CO2 emissions. The ranking system factors in three scores: the emissions level (CO2 per primary energy unit, primary energy unit per GDP, and primary energy unit per capita); the emissions trend (whether emissions are rising or falling), and a subjective rating of the nation's national and international climate policy. Tall bars indicate a higher ranking, and thin bars represent a poor ranking. None of the 57 countries were doing enough to keep global warming below 2°C, so the top three spots on the list were left blank. Image credit: Germanwatch.org.

Comparison with the battle over CFC regulations and the ozone hole
On June 28, 1974, Sherry Rowland and Mario Molina, chemists at the University of California, Irvine, published the first scientific paper warning that human-generated chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) could cause serious harm to Earth's protective ozone layer (Molina and Rowland, 1974). They calculated that if CFC production continued to increase at the going rate of 10%/year until 1990, then remain steady, CFCs would cause a global 5 to 7 percent ozone loss by 1995 and 30 - 50% loss by 2050.

They warned that the loss of ozone would significantly increase the amount of skin-damaging ultraviolet UV-B light reaching the surface, greatly increasing skin cancer and cataracts. The loss of stratospheric ozone could also significantly cool the stratosphere, potentially causing destructive climate change. Although no stratospheric ozone loss had been observed yet, CFCs should be banned, they said. A huge international political battle ensued, one that eerily echoes many of the same themes as the battle over global warming. In a 1984 interview in The New Yorker, Dr. Rowland concluded, "Nothing will be done about this problem until there is further evidence that a significant loss of ozone has occurred. Unfortunately, this means that if there is a disaster in the making in the stratosphere we are probably not going to avoid it." These prophetic words were proved true the very next year with the discovery of the Antarctic ozone hole. Speedy action to save the planet from potentially disastrous loss of the ozone layer was realized with the swift implementation of the Montreal Protocol two years later, though.

As was the case with the battle over the CFCs and the ozone layer, I expect it will take a obvious imminent climate change disaster to motivate governments to take strong action. I believed in September 2007 that such an event had occurred, when the Arctic ice cap lost more than half of its area, compared to levels observed in the early 1950s. I was astounded at the nonchalance the event earned in the press and among politicians. But, in hindsight I should not have been surprised, since the stakes are very much higher than the battle to ban CFCs--now we are talking about the fossil fuel industry, the very basis for our modern industrialized society. A very big, very obvious disaster in the making will probably be needed to motivate strong enough action to make a major difference in CO2 emissions. Our climate is certainly capable of generating such an event in the coming decade. Unfortunately, if we wait until a disaster is obviously imminent, we will have far less time to prevent a climate disaster than we had for the ozone depletion crisis. The lifetime of CFCs in the atmosphere is 50 - 140 years, but a substantial portion of the CO2 put in the air stays for thousands of years. According to the 2007 IPCC report, "About 50% of a CO2 increase will be removed from the atmosphere within 30 years, and a further 30% will be removed within a few centuries. The remaining 20% may stay in the atmosphere for many thousands of years."

References
McGranahan, G., D. Balk, and B. Anderson, 2007, "The rising tide: assessing the risks of climate change and human settlements in low elevation coastal zones", Environment & Urbanization, 19(1), 17-37.

Molina, M.J., and F.S. Rowland, "Stratospheric Sink for Chlorofluoromethanes: Chlorine Atom-Catalyzed Destruction of Ozone", Nature 249, 810-812, 1974.

Next post
Have a great Christmas, everyone, and I'll be back with a new post on Monday (at the latest).

Jeff Masters


The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

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Quoting AstroHurrican001:
Exactly, there is rarely any certainty in science. However, we cannot wait for certainty in the case of global warming if certainty ever arrives, because by then it will be too late to do anything and we cannot afford to participate in a living experiment.


Given the huge changes that would really be required to actually reduce the atmospheric concentration of CO2 requires a high level of scientific certainty to overcome substantial political hurtles. Nothing that was even proposed for Copenhagen comes close to reducing CO2. Given the political reality of Climategate, the first step in achieving such certainty requires a full and transparent review of the IPCC fourth assessment. That means the data and metadata for ever included study must be made publicly available. If there’s urgency then the IPCC should get started soon. Arguing there’s no need for such transparency at the intersection of science and politics is a non starter.

If Hernrik Svensmark’s theory is correct then we may be in for an extended cooling trend. If the recently discovered shifting emissivity effect is substantial, then the climate is relatively insensitive to CO2. Few people want to revert back to the lifestyle of a midlevel peasant before science evaluates such information in a transparent way. That’s the political reality.
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60 Hour CONUS Surface Forecast Map

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Quoting Jeff9641:
Who is Rainman?


Link
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


Please excuse me for asking this question, but who is Rainman?


Oh, sorry, cultural reference -- and I have to remember some of the posters here are young -- to the autistic savant who remembered EVERYTHING but couldn't dress himself without help.

He was the basis for the character played by Dustin Hoffman in the movie "Rainman" with Tom Cruise...I don't remember the year, 80's maybe?

His obituary was online yesterday. I'll find it for you.

It was just a little joke...sometimes I get in a good one; often NOT!
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


Please excuse me for asking this question, but who is Rainman?
------It is a movie that came out in 1988. Rainman with Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman. In that movie Rainman died.
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and people really think,, this just happened last year,, famines,, floods,hurricanes earthquakes, etc,, have happened over , many years,, i vowed i would not get into this ,, if mj was alive , maybe he could do another . feed the world,, and shut up the screaming , oh let me be quiet, 2012 is only . how many days?
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


By doing this, the big oil companies have been able to continue profiting while not caring about future generations. Not to mention that the previous administration in the US gave power to Big Oil, especially ExxonMobil.


How did they spread denial and what kind of power did they get?
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Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
Remember Dr. Masters' 1389th blog

Rainman died, may he rest in peace.


Please excuse me for asking this question, but who is Rainman?
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


Remember Dr. Masters' 1389th blog, which stated that the fossil fuel coalition had outspent the environmental groups 14-to-one to spread their message, which in this case was global warming denial? By doing this, the big oil companies have been able to continue profiting while not caring about future generations. Not to mention that the previous administration in the US gave power to Big Oil, especially ExxonMobil.

Another point to remember is that the lobby money was not broken out by subject matter, only whom spent what...
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Quoting calusakat:


And you are tying all that to AGW???

Talk about grasping at straws.




Such a large temperature increase is almost certainly the result of global warming, and this temperature increase is what dried up the waterholes, changed the rainy seasons, and caused the crops to fail.
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Remember Dr. Masters' 1389th blog

Rainman died, may he rest in peace.
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510. Um, okay, I get that you're weary...but you said you want to see weather, and then complain about the Midwest blizzard postings? Well, I belive it's actually the Plains states that have lots of blizzards, that and the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, I believe...not so much the Midwest. Also, it is a huge system...and is affecting everyone since it's holiday time. There's already been what, 6 deaths? Just sayin'...if you want weather postings, we GOT WEATHER...

Anyone else enjoying the other topics, too? Selfish, maybe, but I am.

Say Doug, if you're still around... here's another GOVERNMENT-funded program; one I think you could get down with, LOL!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: NOVEMBER 6, 2009 [Revised 11/11/09]

For High Res Photos, go to: jalc.org/TheRoad_noFl/press_pix.html

10 AMERICAN BANDS SELECTED
TO TOUR THE WORLD


Who/What:
Jazz at Lincoln Center and the U.S. State Department’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs announced today the 10 ensembles who will tour with The Rhythm Road: American Music Abroad program in 2010. American music groups from across the United States specializing in jazz, urban/hip hop and other American roots music - blues, bluegrass, Cajun, country, gospel and zydeco - applied for the opportunity to share their music with the world to promote cross-cultural understanding, with special emphasis on countries not often visited by American musicians. Selected for their artistic integrity, musical ability and educational skills, the finalist bands are:

• Charlie Porter Quartet
• Chen Lo and the Liberation Family
• Johnny Rodgers Band
• Little Joe McLerran Quartet
• Mark Sherman-Tim Horner Quartet
• Nasar Abadey and SUPERNOVA
• Oscar Williams and Perfected Praise
• Paul Beaudry & Pathways
• The Student Loan
• Turning Pointe

International tour activities will include public concerts, master classes, lecture-demonstrations, workshops, jam sessions, collaborations with local musicians and media outreach. Over the past four seasons, 118 musicians from 31 ensembles have toured with the program, visiting 97 countries on five continents.

Where/When:
Ensembles travel around the globe for approximately one month from March through December 2010. The program also incorporates free performances by each ensemble hosted in New York by Jazz at Lincoln Center at Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola at Frederick P. Rose Hall, home of Jazz at Lincoln Center, and in Washington, D.C. presented by National Geographic Live! at the Grosvenor Auditorium.

How:
For more information visit The Rhythm Road: American Music Abroad at jalc.org/TheRoad. In addition, you can listen to music and program stories free of charge on Jazz at Lincoln
Center Radio at jalc.org/jazzcast/program.asp?programNumber=262 and jalc.org/jazzcast/program.asp?programNumber=205
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Quoting cajunkid:


please splain me dis


Remember Dr. Masters' 1389th blog, which stated that the fossil fuel coalition had outspent the environmental groups 14-to-one to spread their message, which in this case was global warming denial? By doing this, the big oil companies have been able to continue profiting while not caring about future generations. Not to mention that the previous administration in the US gave power to Big Oil, especially ExxonMobil.
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


In Kenya, surface temperatures have increased 3.5C in recent decades. Water holes which people and their livestock use are drying up, and a scuffle over the water holes has led to shooting. By the time the police got there a month later, seven people were dead. Meanwhile, families cannot gain profit after their crops failed, and charcoal didn't bring them enough money. So mothers had to send out their daughters, some as young as 11, to work in the streets as prostitutes so the family could make enough money to support themselves.

That's just one example among thousands more.


And you are tying all that to AGW???

Talk about grasping at straws.


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Wow, you guys have been active in here today...

ALERT: The following is a weather post. (Just in case those are to be avoided, etc.)

Expect this to fill up a bit in west Louisiana tonight. One nado, one high wind event, and a number of hail reports, including "HAIL WAS SOFT AND MUSHY" ;-)
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/reports/today.html



Pay attention tomorrow and radio usage recommended for highway travelers (cd's and satellite music do NOT communicate warnings)

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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


Meanwhile, the fossil fuel industry is profiting from climate change denial whether AGW is real or not.


please splain me dis
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Quoting calusakat:

And how is it affecting millions of lives already in developing countries?

Please itemize this claim of yours.




In Kenya, surface temperatures have increased 3.5C in recent decades. Water holes which people and their livestock use are drying up, and a scuffle over the water holes has led to shooting. By the time the police got there a month later, seven people were dead. Meanwhile, families cannot gain profit after their crops failed, and charcoal didn't bring them enough money. So mothers had to send out their daughters, some as young as 11, to work in the streets as prostitutes so the family could make enough money to support themselves.

That's just one example among thousands more.
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


OK, but at least the doctors don't take out the life support devices due to budget issues.
You just made the point I posted.
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Quoting hydrus:
A Chinese doctor should not listen to family suggestions. If the family knew what to do that person, they would not be at that doctors office in the first place.


OK, but at least the doctors don't take out the life support devices due to budget issues.
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


OK calm down, no one ever said that global warming will not have devastating effects worldwide. It is affecting millions of lives already in developing countries.

And how is it affecting millions of lives already in developing countries?

Please itemize this claim of yours.

Or is your claim simply adding more hysteria to the pile?




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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


What makes you say that? While it's true that some people in China cannot afford some services, life expectancy in China is almost as high as that of the USA! Also, doctors in China will actually listen to the suggestions of family members regarding what to do with the patient, while in Canada the hospital assumes total control over the person's life.
A Chinese doctor should not listen to family suggestions. If the family knew what to do that person, they would not be at that doctors office in the first place.
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Quoting calusakat:


OMG!!! OMG!!!

We are all going to die!!!

Please save us O B One!!!




OK calm down, no one ever said that global warming will not have devastating effects worldwide. It is affecting millions of lives already in developing countries.
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Quoting SouthALWX:

That's the beauty of AGW and also why there are som wary skeptics (and rightfully so!) Assuming there are people out there who will profit from AGW (there always is) then they profit whether or not it is real or not.


Meanwhile, the fossil fuel industry is profiting from climate change denial whether AGW is real or not.
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


Speaking of basket...breadbasket. The American Midwest, the breadbasket of the region, could turn to a scrub desert with 1C of further temperature rise, and that could occur by 2035. There will be a water crisis as well, especially within the Colorado River basin.


OMG!!! OMG!!!

We are all going to die!!!

Please save us O B One!!!


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why all the hype about snow in the upper midwest?? just asking,, is a blizzard that rare?????and . no offense to any 1 here,, i am getting weary of visiting this site and not seeing weather comments,, i understand your beliefs or non beliefs,, btw, i know when hurricane season starts.. just curious , if any feel this way,, as i said . no offense. and merry christmas to all.. i have to work, which is ok, $$$
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Quoting PensacolaDoug:


Socialized medical care! Like Canada! Can't wait for that either! Hell in a hand-basket...


Speaking of basket...breadbasket. The American Midwest, the breadbasket of the region, could turn to a scrub desert with 1C of further temperature rise, and that could occur by 2035. There will be a water crisis as well, especially within the Colorado River basin.
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Bueller?..

Ferris?
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


Exactly, there is rarely any certainty in science. However, we cannot wait for certainty in the case of global warming if certainty ever arrives, because by then it will be too late to do anything and we cannot afford to participate in a living experiment.

That's the beauty of AGW and also why there are som wary skeptics (and rightfully so!) Assuming there are people out there who will profit from AGW (there always is) then they profit whether or not it is real or not.
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The V. A. Health Care is Socialized... Medicine,been getting it since 86

Good nuff for Americas Bravest,but not for anyone else...?

Yup..that makes a lotta sense.

Harumph..

I say all Americans get the same Health Coverage every US Rep. or Senator gets.

Period.

How bout dat?

Fair nuff?

Ill even Lobby for it at a reduced cost to wu-members only.

Make a 50$ donation to portlight.org and I'll send ya FREE T-shirt too.
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


Wikipedia defines a republic as:

"A republic is a form of government in which the head of state is not a monarch[1] and the people (or at least a part of its people)[2] have an impact on its government."

Adding mitigation of global warming into public policy would not change any of that.

Merriam-Webster
republic - a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.

Wikipedia - fox in the chicken coop


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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


What makes you say that? While it's true that some people in China cannot afford some services, life expectancy in China is almost as high as that of the USA! Also, doctors in China will actually listen to the suggestions of family members regarding what to do with the patient, while in Canada the hospital assumes total control over the person's life.


Socialized medical care! Like Canada! Can't wait for that either! Hell in a hand-basket...
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Quoting Patrap:
NEXRAD Radar
Shreveport, Echo Tops Range 124 NMI




Why do the so-called tornado vortex signatures never display on WeatherUnderground Nexrad radar maps?
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Quoting presslord:


for the record: you have NEVER seen me post "AGW rhetoric"....I'm not smart enough to have an opinion on the science...I've only commented on the sophmoric nature with which most of the right approaches the discussion...


I have heard that there are examples of your posts next to the word 'sophomoric' in the dictionary.

Using falsified data to support AGW is a lie.

No rhetoric no sophomoric nature, just the truth that the data is a lie and the AGW crowd freely admits it as such.


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Quoting MacLorry:
Quoting AstroHurrican001:
Humans being responsible for damaging the environment has no scientific validity?! Since when?


What I said was “The argument that humans must be responsible for damaging the climate has no scientific validity.” The operative phase is “must be”. There’s nothing scientific about such a statement and never has been.


Exactly, there is rarely any certainty in science. However, we cannot wait for certainty in the case of global warming if certainty ever arrives, because by then it will be too late to do anything and we cannot afford to participate in a living experiment.
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Methinks there's very positive aspects of what some might call Socialism.

Here's one of the best!
VOAnews.com
Exhibit Highlights 1934 Government-Funded Art
Link

Although the current economic crisis is not as severe as the Great Depression of the 1930s, many people are looking back to those days of unprecedented government intervention aimed at stabilizing the economy. President Franklin Roosevelt introduced programs to put people back to work, mostly in construction jobs, improving roads, bridges and schools. But artists were also part of the government work programs, and some of the works they created are now on display at the Smithsonian American Art Museum here in Washington.

All 56 paintings in the exhibition murals by Ben Shahn, adorns the walls at Voice of America headquarters here in Washington, D.C.
--------------------------------
Don't mean to sound like a commercial, but it's nice to see folks keeping their hearts and minds open.

We've had a pretty good mix of economic systems here in the U.S. for a couple hundred years...some years were worse than others.

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SEL5

URGENT - IMMEDIATE BROADCAST REQUESTED
TORNADO WATCH NUMBER 805
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
200 PM CST WED DEC 23 2009

THE NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER HAS ISSUED A
TORNADO WATCH FOR PORTIONS OF

FAR SOUTHWEST ARKANSAS
WESTERN LOUISIANA
SOUTHEAST OKLAHOMA
EASTERN AND SOUTHEAST TEXAS

EFFECTIVE THIS WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING FROM 200 PM UNTIL
900 PM CST.

TORNADOES...HAIL TO 1 INCH IN DIAMETER...THUNDERSTORM WIND GUSTS
TO 70 MPH...AND DANGEROUS LIGHTNING ARE POSSIBLE IN THESE AREAS.

THE TORNADO WATCH AREA IS APPROXIMATELY ALONG AND 125 STATUTE
MILES NORTH AND SOUTH OF A LINE FROM 55 MILES WEST NORTHWEST OF
TYLER TEXAS TO 55 MILES SOUTH SOUTHEAST OF SHREVEPORT LOUISIANA.
FOR A COMPLETE DEPICTION OF THE WATCH SEE THE ASSOCIATED WATCH
OUTLINE UPDATE (WOUS64 KWNS WOU5).

REMEMBER...A TORNADO WATCH MEANS CONDITIONS ARE FAVORABLE FOR
TORNADOES AND SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS IN AND CLOSE TO THE WATCH
AREA. PERSONS IN THESE AREAS SHOULD BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR
THREATENING WEATHER CONDITIONS AND LISTEN FOR LATER STATEMENTS
AND POSSIBLE WARNINGS.

DISCUSSION...TSTMS NOW FORMING ALONG LOW LVL CONFLUENCE ZONE AND
NW/SE WARM FRONT OVER E TX/SE OK AND THE SABINE RVR
VLY...RESPECTIVELY... EXPECTED TO GRADUALLY INCREASE IN
COVERAGE/STRENGTH THROUGH LATE TONIGHT AS REGION CONTINUES TO
MOISTEN AND LARGE SCALE ASCENT STRENGTHENS WITH THE APPROACH OF NM
UPR TROUGH. ABSENCE OF STRONG LINEAR FORCING AND GRADUALLY
INCREASING SHEAR /BOTH NEAR-SFC AND DEEP/ SUGGEST LIKELIHOOD FOR A
FEW SUPERCELLS WITH THE POTENTIAL FOR TORNADOES...IN ADDITION TO
LOCALLY DMGG WIND/ MARGINALLY SVR HAIL.

AVIATION...TORNADOES AND A FEW SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS WITH HAIL
SURFACE AND ALOFT TO 1 INCH. EXTREME TURBULENCE AND SURFACE WIND
GUSTS TO 60 KNOTS. A FEW CUMULONIMBI WITH MAXIMUM TOPS TO 450.
MEAN STORM MOTION VECTOR 22040.


...CORFIDI
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
Quoting hydrus:
S cientific validity or not, cleaning up pollution and greedy factory pig mess has cost our country 100,s of billions of dollars. Pollution should be cleaned up whether AGW really exists or not.


The Iraq war, again, has cost over 1 trillion dollars! And oil security was a major contributing factor to the US illegally invading Iraq, so think how much progress could have been acheived if the US spent the same amount of money to mitigate climate change!
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
Quoting AstroHurrican001:
Humans being responsible for damaging the environment has no scientific validity?! Since when?


What I said was “The argument that humans must be responsible for damaging the climate has no scientific validity.” The operative phase is “must be”. There’s nothing scientific about such a statement and never has been.
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Quoting hydrus:
Point understood. But the quality of Canadian heath care compared to Chinese heath care is astronomical. A Chinese citizen will probably wait as long as a Canadian, but the treatment he or she will suck compared to the service Canadians get. There are good Doctors and hospitals in China , but a very small percentage of people have access to them. Poverty is abundant, and it costs big to have the best.


What makes you say that? While it's true that some people in China cannot afford some services, life expectancy in China is almost as high as that of the USA! Also, doctors in China will actually listen to the suggestions of family members regarding what to do with the patient, while in Canada the hospital assumes total control over the person's life.
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
One of the continuing problems is the divide between "developing" and "developed" countries.

So, from wikipedia:

"Kofi Annan, former Secretary General of the United Nations, defined a developed country as follows. 'A developed country is one that allows all its citizens to enjoy a free and healthy life in a safe environment.' But according to the United Nations Statistics Division,

There is no established convention for the designation of "developed" and "developing" countries or areas in the United Nations system.

And it notes that

The designations "developed" and "developing" are intended for statistical convenience and do not necessarily express a judgment about the stage reached by a particular country or area in the development process.

So countries like China and India will ALWAYS be listed in the "developing" column, giving them free reign.
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Quoting AstroHurricane001:


I'm saying that some people say that the waiting lines in Canada are LONGER than they are in China.




Humans being responsible for damaging the environment has no scientific validity?! Since when?
Point understood. But the quality of Canadian heath care compared to Chinese heath care is astronomical. A Chinese citizen will probably wait as long as a Canadian, but the treatment he or she will suck compared to the service Canadians get. There are good Doctors and hospitals in China , but a very small percentage of people have access to them. Poverty is abundant, and it costs big to have the best.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------S cientific validity or not, cleaning up pollution and greedy factory pig mess has cost our country 100,s of billions of dollars. Pollution should be cleaned up whether AGW really exists or not.
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URGENT - IMMEDIATE BROADCAST REQUESTED
TORNADO WATCH NUMBER 805
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
200 PM CST WED DEC 23 2009

THE NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER HAS ISSUED A
TORNADO WATCH FOR PORTIONS OF

FAR SOUTHWEST ARKANSAS
WESTERN LOUISIANA
SOUTHEAST OKLAHOMA
EASTERN AND SOUTHEAST TEXAS

EFFECTIVE THIS WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING FROM 200 PM UNTIL
900 PM CST.

TORNADOES...HAIL TO 1 INCH IN DIAMETER...THUNDERSTORM WIND GUSTS
TO 70 MPH...AND DANGEROUS LIGHTNING ARE POSSIBLE IN THESE AREAS.

THE TORNADO WATCH AREA IS APPROXIMATELY ALONG AND 125 STATUTE
MILES NORTH AND SOUTH OF A LINE FROM 55 MILES WEST NORTHWEST OF
TYLER TEXAS TO 55 MILES SOUTH SOUTHEAST OF SHREVEPORT LOUISIANA.
FOR A COMPLETE DEPICTION OF THE WATCH SEE THE ASSOCIATED WATCH
OUTLINE UPDATE (WOUS64 KWNS WOU5).

REMEMBER...A TORNADO WATCH MEANS CONDITIONS ARE FAVORABLE FOR
TORNADOES AND SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS IN AND CLOSE TO THE WATCH
AREA. PERSONS IN THESE AREAS SHOULD BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR
THREATENING WEATHER CONDITIONS AND LISTEN FOR LATER STATEMENTS
AND POSSIBLE WARNINGS.
**********************************************************************************************

MESOSCALE DISCUSSION 2274
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
0521 PM CST WED DEC 23 2009

AREAS AFFECTED...E TX/SERN OK/SWRN AR/NWRN LA

CONCERNING...TORNADO WATCH 805...

VALID 232321Z - 240115Z

THE SEVERE WEATHER THREAT FOR TORNADO WATCH 805 CONTINUES.

WIDESPREAD CONVECTION CONTINUES ACROSS MUCH OF THE WW...ALONG WITH
ISOLATED SEVERE/TORNADO THREAT.

SEASONABLY MOIST/MODESTLY UNSTABLE ENVIRONMENT REMAINS IN PLACE
ACROSS E TX AND THE ARKLATEX REGION...WITH CONVECTION SLOWLY
INCREASING IN COVERAGE ACROSS THIS REGION WITHIN ZONE OF LARGE-SCALE
ASCENT ASSOCIATED WITH A LEAD SHORT-WAVE TROUGH. A FEW
STRONGER/ROTATING STORMS ARE INDICATED BY LATEST RADAR
IMAGERY...WITH THE MOST INTENSE STORM -- NOW MOVING NNEWD OUT OF WRN
HARRISON AND INTO WRN MARION CO. TX -- RECENTLY PRODUCING A TORNADO.


WITH FAVORABLY VEERING/SHEARED FLOW WITH HEIGHT...THREAT FOR A FEW
LONG-LIVED SUPERCELLS WILL CONTINUE. ALONG WITH MARGINAL HAIL
POTENTIAL AND LOCALLY GUSTY/DAMAGING WINDS...ISOLATED TORNADOES WILL
REMAIN LIKELY.

..GOSS.. 12/23/2009
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:
5:55p EST, yes, TWC just said Tornado -- on the ground -- was spotted near Longview, TX.


I have wunderground weather radio on tyler,TX, that is how I knew.

Velocity radars are indicating a strong rotation on both base and storm relative.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
665
fxus64 klix 232034
afdlix



Area forecast discussion
National Weather Service New Orleans la
234 PM CST Wednesday Dec 23 2009


Short term...
obvious concerns will lie with two areas of convection tonight and
Thursday. The first will develop along a warm frontal axis later
tonight from lft eastward. Ts will have a tough time near the
coast due to a deeper marine layer keeping stability in the bl.
But this will change as the warm front moves farther north and the
strong split flow and wind speeds at jet level move along the
frontal axis.
This should begin to show itself by this afternoon
and evening. The storms in this area will simply get stronger and
will be capable of producing damaging winds and tornadoes from
around midnight through much of Thursday morning. The main squall line
will come through btr between 10-11am...mcb around 11am. Msy
around noon. And gpt around 2pm. A Wind Advisory may also be
needed later tonight for gradient winds before the front even gets
here.



Long term...
some cold air will settle behind the front Thursday and Friday. Highs
will struggle to get out of the 40s through Sat. Another system
will begin to develop well into the Gulf by the weekend and
another stronger surface low develops in the western Gulf Monday bringing
our next weather starting Tuesday.
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
NEXRAD Radar
Shreveport, Echo Tops Range 124 NMI


Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
Dallas / Fort Worth International Airport
Lat: 32.91 Lon: -97.03 Elev: 560
Last Update on Dec 23, 3:53 pm CST


Partly Cloudy

73 °F
(23 °C) Humidity: 48 %
Wind Speed: SW 10 MPH
Barometer: 29.57" (1000.6 mb)
Dewpoint: 52 °F (11 °C)
Visibility: 10.00 mi.

Good afternoon! These temps are fueling the severe weather! I knew this was gonna happen!
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:
5:55p EST, yes, TWC just said Tornado -- on the ground -- was spotted near Longview, TX.
Member Since: December 31, 1969 Posts: Comments:

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Cat 6 lead authors: WU cofounder Dr. Jeff Masters (right), who flew w/NOAA Hurricane Hunters 1986-1990, & WU meteorologist Bob Henson, @bhensonweather

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