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Category 5 Super Typhoon Bopha bearing down on the Philippines

By: Dr. Jeff Masters, 3:41 PM GMT on December 03, 2012

Extremely dangerous Typhoon Bopha is bearing down on the Philippine island of Mindanao as a Category 5 storm with 160 mph winds. Bopha completed an eyewall replacement cycle on Sunday and has been steadily intensifying today, and will make landfall on Mindanao in the early morning on Tuesday local time. Mindanao rarely gets hit by typhoons, since the island is too close to the Equator, and the infrastructure of Mindanao is not prepared to handle heavy typhoon rains as well as the more typhoon-prone northern islands. Bopha is potentially a catastrophic storm for Mindanao. The typhoon is following a similar track to last year's Tropical Storm Washi, which hit Mindanao on December 16, 2011 with 60 mph winds and torrential rains. Washi triggered devastating flooding that killed 1268 people. Washi was merely a tropical storm, and Bopha is likely to hit at Category 4 or 5 strength, making it the strongest typhoon ever recorded in Mindanao.


Figure 1. Super Typhoon Bopha at 01:45 UTC on December 2, 2012. At the time, Bopha had top sustained winds of 150 mph, as was just below its peak intensity of 155 mph, which it reached from 06 - 12 UTC on December 2. Image credit: NASA.

Bopha: the 2nd most southerly typhoon on record
Bopha became a tropical depression unusually close to the Equator, at 3.6°N latitude. Tropical cyclones rarely form so close to the Equator, because they cannot leverage the Earth's rotation to get themselves spinning. According to hurricane expert Dr. Paul Roundy of SUNY Albany, Bopha got its spin from a large-scale atmospheric wave called a mixed Rossby gravity wave. Because of the lack of atmospheric spin so close to the Equator, it took Bopha over four days to intensify into a typhoon, and it stayed a relatively small storm. Bopha became the 2nd most southerly typhoon ever recorded in the Western Pacific at 06 GMT on November 30, when the storm was at 3.8°N latitude. The Joint Typhoon Warning Center lists Typhoon Vamei of 2001 as the most southerly typhoon on record, at 1.5°N. However, other meteorological agencies do not credit Vamei with reaching typhoon strength, so this record is disputed. The previous most southerly typhoon was Typhoon Kate of 14 - 25 October 1970, which reached typhoon intensity at 4.3°N, 137.4°E. Bopha continued intensifying over the weekend, becoming the second most southerly super typhoon ever recorded (150 mph winds) at 00 GMT on December 1, when it was at 6.1°N latitude. The record most southerly super typhoon was Kate, which reached super typhoon intensity at 6.0°N, 126.3°E. Kate struck the Philippine island of Mindanao as a Category 4 storm, killing 631 people. Bopha further intensified into a Category 5 typhoon on Monday at 7.4°N latitude, becoming the second most southerly Category 5 typhoon on record, next to Typhoon Louise of 1964, which was a Category 5 storm at 7.3°N. According to NOAA's Coastal Services Center, there have been only 4 previous typhoons of at least Category 4 strength to track within 200 nautical miles of Mindanao Island, dating back to 1945: Mike ("Ruping" ) in 1990, Ike ("Nitang") in 1984, Kate ("Titang") in 1970, and Louise ("Ining" ) in 1964.


Figure 2. Tracks of all Category 4 typhoons to affect the southern Philippine Island of Mindanao since 1945. Image credit: NOAA Coastal Services Center.

The closest a tropical cyclone has ever been to the Equator is 0.7°N, by Tropical Cyclone Agni in the North Indian Ocean in November 2004. Agni got counter-clockwise spin from the presence of the summer monsoon circulation in the Indian Ocean. The closest a Western Pacific tropical cyclone has been to the Equator is 1.4°N latitude, by Tropical Storm Vamei on December 27, 2001. Vamei hit Singapore after Christmas in 2001, at a latitude of 1.5°N.


Figure 3. This MET-5 visible satellite image taken at 0400 UTC November 28, 2004, shows Agni as a developing tropical storm just north of the Equator in the Indian Ocean. Image credit: Navy Research Lab, Monterey.

Jeff Masters

Hurricane

The views of the author are his/her own and do not necessarily represent the position of The Weather Company or its parent, IBM.

Reader Comments

Mornin" gang!

Evening Aussie!
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Spare me. The legalities of forced evacuation for NOLA should have been worked out long before the big one. Just as Blanco was a flaming idiot who didn't want federal assistance pre-Katrina for political reasons. Assistance that was offered by Bush but refused by Blanco, as opposed to Christie with Sandy and Obama.

I imagine you will post all kinds of liberal website attacks over that claim. But the facts stand. Blanco was an idiot hack way over her head.
Revisionist non-history.
Quoting ScottLincoln:

Heck, its worse than that in some cases. Not only are some of the resort towns just completely gone, the island they were on isn't there anymore, either.
Like the Cheneriere Caminada storm in 1893 that killed 2000 and wiped out a town at landfall... Like the Chandeleur Islands which have been cut again and again by storms... the info is out there on the devastation landfalling hurricanes can cause, but the same arrogance of people causes us to end up in the same situation again and again.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and my "fave"... Last Island, which is IMO the ultimate hurricane doom party of our time... But it's all the government's fault.
Quoting RTSplayer:


Wait a minute...

Is that an INLAND location, on the west side of the island?

Valley?

I don't get it.

When I first read that I thought it was a tide gauge on the east side of the island, but it's not. It's a river gauge on the west side of the island, apparently at the base of a valley where everything drains together. Elevation changes by about 1000ft in each direction within less than a degree on the map.
This is the problem with Mindanao. The mountain ridges funnel water down to the lowlying valleys where people live. The rain falls on slopes 30 miles away, and the rivers flood rapidly. Best US examples, I guess, would be flash flooding in the eastern canyons of the Rockies...
Quoting RTSplayer:


Wait a minute...

Is that an INLAND location, on the west side of the island?

Valley?

I don't get it.

When I first read that I thought it was a tide gauge on the east side of the island, but it's not. It's a river gauge on the west side of the island, apparently at the base of a valley where everything drains together. Elevation changes by about 1000ft in each direction within less than a degree on the map.


You are correct. It's a river gauge. frightening rise in a few hours.
6 dead, 50,000 flee homes as Pablo rages

MANILA—Typhoon Bopha killed at least six people in the Philippines on Tuesday as the strongest storm to hit the country this year forced more than 50,000 to seek refuge in emergency shelters, officials said.
Bopha made landfall on the island of Mindanao in the south of the country at dawn, bringing driving rain and packing gusts of up to 210 kilometres (130 miles) an hour that toppled trees and brought down power lines.
Six people were killed, including an elderly woman who was crushed to death when a tree fell on her house, rescue officials said, without identifying the other five or saying how they had died.
Four fishermen were also reported missing off Mindanao’s east coast, said Freddie Bendulo, planning and development officer of Davao Oriental province.
By early afternoon, the typhoon had slowed and weakened somewhat with top gusts of 195 kilometres an hour, the state weather service said.
Civil defence chief Benito Ramos said the storm had altered course and was expected to hit the central islands of Bohol, Negros and the popular tourist resort island of Cebu later on Tuesday.
Hundreds of people are killed each year by the 20 or so tropical cyclones that hit the Philippines, but Ramos said the low casualties so far from Bopha were down to government efforts to move people to safety.
“So far, casualties have been minimal. We attribute this to the cooperation of our people and the efforts of local officials,” he told reporters.
Winds blew roofs off some buildings and residents of coastal and low-lying communities in Mindanao moved into shelters as floods hit some areas, according to residents and AFP reporters.
More than 53,000 people had moved into nearly 1,000 government shelters by early Tuesday, the civil defence office said.
A total of 145 flights to and from Mindanao and the central islands had been grounded since Monday night and more than 3,000 ferry passengers were stranded as vessels were ordered to stay in port, the civil defence office said.
Large parts of Mindanao, which is not normally hit by typhoons, were without electricity after power was cut to reduce the risk of fires and electrocutions, said Liza Mazo, a regional civil defence official.
People living in the path of the storm did what they could to protect their homes and possessions.
“We have taken our pigs and chickens inside our house because their shed might be destroyed,” 46-year-old shopkeeper Marianita Villamor from the farming town of San Fermin on Mindanao’s east coast told AFP by telephone.
Villamor said her relatives who lived in a nearby coastal area had joined hundreds of other families who moved into temporary shelters including schools and other government buildings late Monday.
In Tagum, a city of 243,000 people, hotel waiter Edgie Atilano, 23, said he and his family hunkered down in their home as Bopha bore down.
“At 3:00 am we were woken by strong rain and howling winds. Trees and branches started snapping off near the house,” said the father-of-two, who added that nearby roads were blocked with fallen trees.
“This is my first time to experience a strong typhoon. It was a bit scary,” he added.
The commercial centre of Cagayan de Oro, a city of 600,000 people, was hit by flooding as rivers overflowed.
City mayor Vicente Emano said on ABS-CBN television that police rounded up all residents of low-lying areas Tuesday and moved them to government shelters.
“There were people who refused to leave their homes yesterday. Now those areas are under code red (flood risk) so I ordered the police to go and force them to leave because these areas could soon be flooded,” Emano added.
Philippines Atmospheric Geophysical Astronomical Services and Administration
Tropical Cyclone Bulletin #9
TYPHOON PABLO (BOPHA)
5:00 PM PhST December 4 2012
==============================

Typhoon "PABLO" has slightly accelerated as it continues to move towards Siquijor-Negros Oriental area.

At 4:00 PM PhST, Typhoon Pablo [958 hPa] located at 9.0°N 123.7°E or 60 km southeast of Dumaguete City has 10 minute sustained winds of 85 knots gusting up to 105 knots. The cyclone is reported as moving west northwest at 12 knots.

Signal Warnings
==============

Signal Warning #3
-----------

Luzon Region
-----------
1. Northern Palawan including Calamian Grp. Of Islands

Visayas Region
----------------
1. Bohol
2. Siquijor
3. Southern Cebu
4. Negros Oriental
5. Southern Negros Occidental
6. Iloilo
7. Guimaras
8. Antique

Mindanao Region
----------------
1. Lanao del Norte
2. Misamis Occidental
3. Zamboanga del Norte

Signal Warning #2
-----------

Luzon Region
-----------
1. Rest of Palawan

Visayas Region
-------------
1. Aklan
2.Capiz
3. Rest of Cebu incl. Camotes Is.
4. Rest of Negros Occidental

Mindanao Region
----------------
1. Misamis Oriental
2. Agusan del Norte
3. Bukidnon
4. Lanao del Sur
5. Zamboanga del Sur including Sibugay

Signal Warning #1
----------

Luzon Region
-------------
1. Occidental Mindoro
2. Oriental Mindoro
3. Romblon

Visayas Region
=============
1. Leyte including Biliran
2. Southern Leyte

Mindanao Region
================
1. Surigao del Norte including Siargao
2. Surigao del Sur
3. Dinagat
4. Agusan del Sur
5. Davao del Norte
6. Compostela Valley
7. North Cotabato
8. Maguindanao

Additional Information
========================
Public Storm Warning Signals elsewhere is now lowered.

Estimated rainfall amount is from 10-18 mm per hour (heavy to intense) within the 500 km diameter of the typhoon.

Residents living in low lying and mountainous areas under public storm warning signals are alerted against possible flash floods and landslides. Likewise, those living in coastal areas under public storm warning signals #3 and signal #2 are alerted against big waves or storm surges generated by this typhoon.

Fishing boats and other sea vessels are advised not to venture out into the Seaboards of Visayas and Mindanao.

The public and the disaster coordinating councils concerned are advised to take appropriate actions and watch for the next bulletin to be issued at 11 PM today.
Storm surge spawned by typhoon ‘Pablo’ hits Catanduanes

LEGAZPI CITY, Albay, Philippines —-A storm surge as high as six meters hit the shorelines of Catanduanes on Tuesday, preventing passenger vessels from docking in the Virac port, the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) in Bicol said.
MV Eugenia, a passenger vessel plying the Virac-Tabaco routes, was forced to return to Tabaco City in Albay due to the big waves battering Virac port in Catanduanes, said Bernardo Alejandro, Office of Civil Defense (OCD) regional director and Regional Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council (RDRRMC) chairperson.
Alejandro said the Coast Guard in Virac port had to order the ship captain of MV Eugenia to return to the Tabaco port after big waves spawned by the gale force prevailed at the Virac port.
Quoting an initial report from the Catandaunes PDRRMC, Alejandro said the storm surge hit around 25 coastal villages in the towns of Virac, Bato, Baras and Gigmoto.
The report said strong waves forced seawater to encroach into major highways in these area.
The Coast Guard report said 682 passengers were stranded while 19 trucks, 15 buses, seven cars, and four sea vessels were also grounded in the ports of Matnog, Bulan and Pilar in Sorsogon; Pio Duran in Albay; and Cataingan in Masbate.
Power, water services down in typhoon-hit Surigao del Norte

SURIGAO CITY, Philippines—Power and water services were down in Surigao del Norte as of Tuesday afternoon, where a total of 4,580 families or 21,100 individuals have been evacuated in different designated evacuation centers all over the province.
Hundreds of passengers bound for Leyte have been stranded at the Lipata Port here.
Intermittent rain and wind have been experienced by residents here.
Food packs were distributed to evacuees in Surigao City’s three evacuation centers.
‘Pablo’ disrupts Globe Telecom service in Davao City, Cagayan de Oro, Bukidnon

MANILA, Philippines – Globe Telecom has announced service interruption in some areas in Mindanao due to strong winds and heavy rains brought by typhoon Pablo (international name Bopha).
The interruption Tuesday noon was due to optical fiber cuts in the areas of Davao City, Cagayan de Oro and Bukidnon.
“Subscribers in these areas will temporarily experience difficulties sending and receiving text messages, making calls or connecting to the Internet,” Globe said on its Twitter account.
“Globe assures its subscribers that service restoration is ongoing. We’ll issue another advisory when services are fully restored,” it also said.
Surigao del Sur under a state of calamity

MANILA, Philippines – Surigao del Sur has been placed in a state of calamity following nearly 12 hours of strong winds and heavy rains brought by typhoon “Pablo”.

Governor Johnny Pimentel said some of the towns hit by massive floods are Hinatuan, Lingig, Bislig City, Tagbina, Barobo, Lianga, San Agustin, Marihatag, Tandag City and Carrascal.

More than 33,000 residents have fled their homes, according to the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council (NDRRMC).

They are now staying in 35 evacuation centers in the province.

Almost the entire province of Surigao del Sur is also without electricity.

"I would say that this is one of the strongest typhoon na na-experience namin dito sa Surigao del Sur," Pimentel earlier told dzMM.

Pablo (international codename: "Bopha") made landfall in Baganga, Davao Oriental Tuesday morning, and was packing maximum sustained winds of 160 kilometers per hour (kph) near the center and gusts of up to 195 kph.

A total of 46 areas are under storm signals. The typhoon has already claimed 6 lives, according to the NDRRMC.
‘Pablo’ leaves 1 soldier dead, 1 hurt in Compostela Valley

MANILA, Philippines – One soldier was killed, and one was wounded in Compostela Valley as typhoon Pablo whipped up heavy rains and strong winds over the regions of Visayas and Mindanao.
A report from the Eastern Mindanao Command said the soldiers from the Army’s 66th Infantry Battalion were on standby at their patrol base in Andap village in New Bataan when washed away by floods.
Six soldiers were missing from the incident.
An estimated 20 civilians were also swept away by floods, and rescue efforts were underway, the military added.
Thanks for all the good posts, Aussie.
My heart goes out to all who are dealing with Bopha.
They have a lot of work ahead of them. I hope the death toll doesn't go up. I still don't have the words to describe what I saw after Rita. I think it's just something you have to see for yourself. And we didn't have the inland flooding like they do. A scary time for them. :(
Quoting BahaHurican:
Thanks for all the good posts, Aussie.


No worries mate!
Pablo is on Cebu Radar.


TYPHOON POUNDS THE PHILIPPINES, KILLING AT LEAST 5

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — One of the strongest typhoons to hit the Philippines this year barreled across the country's south on Tuesday, killing at least five people and forcing more than 50,000 to flee from inundated villages.

Typhoon Bopha slammed into the Davao region at dawn, its ferocious winds ripping roofs from homes and its 500-kilometer- (311-mile-) wide rain band flooding low-lying farmland. The storm, packing winds of 160 kilometers (99 miles) per hour and gusts of up to 195 kph (121 mph), toppled trees, triggered landslides and sent flash floods surging across the region's mountains and valleys.

In the gold-mining province of Compostela Valley, the fierce wind and rain forced a wall of mud and boulders to cascade down on a house, killing three children. Their bodies were wrapped in blankets by their grieving relatives and placed on a basketball court in Maparat village.

"The only thing we could do was to save ourselves. It was too late for us to rescue them," said Valentin Pabilana, who survived the landslide.

In nearby Davao Oriental, a poor agricultural and gold-mining province about 1,000 kilometers (620 miles) southeast of Manila, an elderly woman was killed when her house was struck by a tree felled by howling wind, said Benito Ramos, an ex-army general who now heads the government's disaster-response agency.

A man died a few hours later when a tree knocked him down while he was traveling on a scooter on a road in Misamis Oriental province, Ramos said.

He said the death toll was expected to rise once soldiers and police gain access to some far-flung villages isolated by floods, fallen trees and downed communications.

Regional disaster-response officer Liza Maso told The Associated Press by telephone that she was trying to confirm an army report that a flash flood washed away a truck carrying an undetermined number of people in New Bataan town, also in Compostela Valley.

While some 20 typhoons and storms normally lash the archipelago nation annually, the southern provinces being battered by Bopha are unaccustomed to fierce typhoons. A rare storm that took the area by surprise last December killed more than 1,200 people and left many more homeless and traumatized.

Officials were taking no chances this year, and President Benigno Aquino III made an appeal on national TV Monday for people in Bopha's path to move to safety and take storm warnings seriously.

"This typhoon is not a joke," Aquino said after meeting top officials in charge of disaster-response.

"But we can minimize the damage and loss of lives if we help each other," he added.

Aquino outlined preparations, including evacuations and the deployment of army search and rescue boats in advance. Authorities also ordered small boats and ferries not to venture out along the country's eastern seaboard, warning of rough seas with up to 4-meter (13-foot) waves.

In Compostela Valley, authorities halted mining operations and ordered villagers to evacuate to prevent a repeat of deadly losses from landslides and the collapse of mine tunnels seen in previous storms.

Bopha, a Cambodian word for flower or a girl, is the 16th weather disturbance to hit the Philippines this year. Forecasters say at least one more storm may hit the country before Christmas.

Hinatuan, Surigao del Sur
Updated: Tuesday, 04 December, 2012 at 09:43 UTC
Description
The Philippines's strongest typhoon so far this year has forced more than 41,000 people from their homes as it pounds southern provinces cutting power, suspending travel and flooding areas that are prone to landslides. More than 41,000 people evacuated high-risk coastal villages and along rivers, including in areas that were devastated by a deadly storm a year ago. President Benigno Aquino III made a national TV appeal for people in typhoon Bopha's path to move to safety and take storm warnings seriously. Aquino said army troops had deployed search and rescue boats in advance. Authorities ordered small boats and ferries not to venture out along the country's eastern coastline, warning of rough seas and torrential rain and wind that could whip up four-metre waves. Government forecaster Jori Loiz said Bopha, the strongest typhoon to hit the country this year, had weakened since it made landfall in Davao Oriental province early on Tuesday but winds remained at 99mph (160km/h) with gusts of up to 121mph.

The civil defence chief, Benito Ramos, said officials were checking for casualties or damage from a landslide on a mountainside village in Compostela Valley province. They were also working to verify unconfirmed casualty reports from Southern Leyte and Davao Oriental provinces. Power was cut off in several municipalities in southern Surigao del Sur, Surigao del Norte and Davao Oriental provinces after parts of Agusan del Sur province flooded. Bopha's rain front, 373 miles wide, is expected to be out of Philippine territory by Friday. Bopha, its name taken from the Cambodian word for flower or a girl, is the 16th big storm system to hit the Philippines this year. The country usually has about 20 typhoons and major storms a year.
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?pageid=event_u pdate_read&edis_id=TC-20121203-37381-PHL&uid=13199

Strong waves hit coast line along the Boulevard in Surigao City


wave height in Dumaguete as of 3:40pm


Strong winds brought by #PabloPH lash through trees and establishments in Mati City, Davao Oriental


#PabloPH hits Carmen, Davao del Norte: http://twitpic.com/bivk9n. Christmas displays fell due to strong winds.


Evacuation center in Opol, Misamis Oriental


Super Typhoon Bopha Bearing Down on the Philippines
Bopha is tracking west-northwestward at 16 knots, on course to cross the island of Mindanao late tonight. With winds sustained near 135 knots and gusts near 165 knots, and with significant wave heights of 52 feet, Super Typhoon Bopha is expected to cause significant damage to coastal areas of the island. This image was taken by the NASA/NOAA Suomi NPP satellite's VIIRS instrument around 0435Z on December 3, 2012.


cdo river near city hall






Winds have calmed. Water now rising even at higher ground.


To new bridge rotonda


Hope that crane stays in place #PabloPh #storm #Cebu
Good morning/evening all. Thanks Aussie, for the information, my heart goes out to all those people. I read this morning that Australia is having bush fires again.

It's a balmy almost 70 degrees here this morning, but rain in the forecast, so recess inside. I think we'll work on something Chrismassy.
Typhoon Pablo awes Davao residents

DAVAO CITY, Philippines —For the first time in their lives, people in the coastal towns of Davao Oriental heard the sound of a typhoon, leaving some of them to compare it with the groan from an angry man.
“Even from the sound alone, it seemed like the wind wanted to eat us alive,” said Juvy Tanio, assistant of Mayor Michelle Rabat of Mati City in Davao Oriental, who said he was surprised to see the roofs of his neighbors’ houses gone and the trees toppled.
“Ana diay ang bagyo, no (So that’s what a typhoon is like),” said Tanio, who admitted it was his first time to experience it.
“Scary,” Patrick Ronolo, a college student at the Davao Oriental State College of Science and Technology described his first typhoon experience.
“Kusog jud ang hangin (the wind was really strong,” he said.
“Hadlok kaayo ang hangin, karun rami naka experience ani,” said Flordeliz Bantolinao, a teacher in Baculin National High School in Baganga, Davao Oriental, where typhoon Pablo has its landfall.
She said it was the first time she saw coconut trees falling down because of the strong winds.
Tanio said people were still grumbling in the afternoon of Monday, because it was “too hot,” it never felt like there was an upcoming typhoon. But it started to rain that night and the strong winds started at 2 a.m. Tuesday.
“When the wind started to groan at 3 a.m., nobody dared to speak,” Tanio said.
“Everyone was so quiet, we never heard that sound before. Grabe jud diay ang bagyo,” he added.
Even Vivencio Anislag, a resident of Tarragona town, who has been used to big waves and strong winds from years of living along the coast of Davao Oriental was surprised.
“I live near the shore, so I’m used to big waves and strong winds,” he said. “But this one is something different, lahi ra jud ang bagyo,” he said, awed.
Davao Oriental’s Tarragona town, which faces the Pacific Ocean, was among those badly battered when the typhoon made landfall Tuesday morning. Close to 300 families evacuated, and a five-year-old child was killed when a tree fell on their house in sitio Madian, barangay Tubaon.
In Davao city, people were equally awed as it was the first time for them to see strong wind and rain battering houses.
Davao City’s investment come-on of being typhoon-free is no longer true, after the city saw 14 trees fall and an electric post toppled.
Quoting aislinnpaps:
Good morning/evening all. Thanks Aussie, for the information, my heart goes out to all those people. I read this morning that Australia is having bush fires again.

It's a balmy almost 70 degrees here this morning, but rain in the forecast, so recess inside. I think we'll work on something Chrismassy.

Your welcome.

We've had bush fires here since September. NW NSW has had a lot due to dry lightning.
PNP prepares rescue units, relief goods for typhoon victims

MANILA, Philippines–The Philippine National Police on Tuesday said it has prepared for distribution 10,000 blankets, food packs and other relief goods for residents of towns ravaged by Typhoon “Pablo” in the Visayas and Mindanao regions.
Chief Superintendent Bernardo Florece Jr., chief of the PNP task force on disaster preparedness, said Tuesday that the Special Action Force, the Maritime Group and local police units had also pre-positioned more than 300 water assets and rescue equipment.
“The PNP had already prepared nonperishable goods, bottles of mineral water, food packs and other items needed by people affected by this typhoon,” Florece told reporters.
He said the police convened its own disaster response teams in northern Mindanao and Caraga regions to provide assistance to local government units.
He said PNP chief Director General Nicanor Bartolome directed police officials in nearby regions to prepare their police rescue teams for possible deployment to typhoon-hit provinces.
Bartolome said PNP search and rescue units and equipment were already sent to provinces in the country’s eastern seaboard.
The PNP chief said all police offices in Mindanao and three regions in the Visayas were placed on full alert to ensure that all police personnel would be available in disaster response operations.
“The lessons we learned from our experiences in the series of weather disturbances in 2009 … should prompt us to find better ways of ensuring readiness to effectively address similar situations,” Bartolome said in a statement.
To prevent unscrupulous traders from taking advantage of the situation, Bartolome also ordered the PNP investigative units to help the Department of Trade and Industry in “monitoring market conditions for price control violations and unfair trade practices.”
"Davao City’s investment come-on of being typhoon-free is no longer true, after the city saw 14 trees fall and an electric post toppled."

Isn't there a song, The Times, They Are A-Changing?

So far that sounds like four children dead because parents / relatives didn't understand the reality of the storm.... I always feel the worst for the children who die. They have so few choices in the face of these kinds of disasters. And their parents must go through agony.

Mornin' gang.
G' eve Aussie.
Thanks for keeping us updated mate.
I gotta run. Thoughts and prayers with pple in the Philippines today.

Stay safe, all.
530. beell
Quoting AllyBama:
{{Beell}}...am I going to get my snow this winter? lol


Mornin' Ally, if your here. Missed your post.

You know how it works...If ND wins, you get snow.
Make your selection please. You can't have both!

Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Mornin' gang.
G' eve Aussie.
Thanks for keeping us updated mate.

No worries mate. And good morning to you.

This is the Official report, not media report.
NDRRMC Update Sitrep No. 07 re Effects of Typhoon "PABLO" (BOPHA) as of 04 December 2012, 6:00PM.

AFFECTED POPULATION (TAB A)
As of 6:00 PM, 04 December 2012, a total of 12,366 families / 60,054 persons
were affected in Regions VIII, X, XI, and CARAGA.
B. CASUALTIES
Four (4) persons are reported dead while two (2) persons were reported
injured.
Three were reported dead due to fallen trees and one (1) due to drowning. The
name are as follows:
1. Jegger Gomonit, 31 y/o, from Brgy Sumasap, Panaon, Misamis
Occidental, due fallen tree.
2. Erlinda Balante, 60 y/o, from Manay, Davao Oriental, due fallen tree.
3. Elberto Daniel, 23 y/o, from Lazi Siquijor, due to fallen tree.
4. Sgt Olivarez, from the Temporary Command Post, Charlie Company,
Brgy Andap, New Bataan, Compostela Valley, due to drowning.
Leticia Benitez and one (1) unidentified person were reported injured due to
flying galvanized iron.
The details on the incidents will be reflected on the succeeding reports.

_________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

Just in..... 34 confirmed dead in Compostela Valley landslide - 24 oras
532. yoboi
Quoting RTSplayer:


The heck is your problem?

When they call a "Mandatory Evacuation" that really isn't mandatory, because the law of the land doesn't allow it, but it's been that way forever. Nagin was just trying to get more power to try to save more lives, but you're going to fault him for that too.

I have no idea how stupid the average person really is, but maybe it's worse than I imagined.

My family lived here for as long as I know, and everyone knows you don't ride out a hurricane in NOLA.

In the past several decades before Katrina they had category 3 landfalls left, right, and center and they had black and whites of Camille and Betsy, so nobody had any excuse for not knowing they were supposed to evacuate. This has happened before just a few decades earlier, so it's not like they didn't know about it.


Then in the case of Rita, you get a bunch of people who also didn't evacuate, or who chose to build in the same place that got demolished by Audrey, and they come out after the fact and boo hoo about how it's never happened before, when in fact the previous one in the same location was 20mph worse at landfall.


What's more, if you check the history of hurricanes in the region, Katrina and Betsy might not even be the two most powerful hurricanes to have hit NOLA region. This happens every 2 or 3 decades, and it's the same thing every time: blame the government. There's even records of it happening during the war of 1812 when the British naval officer kept a journal of a really powerful NOLA landfall that killed a couple thousand people.

They've hit coming right to left, left to right, and bottom to top, and everything between, and literally scour the region on some occasions, and in a few cases wiped out resort islands from the map. There used to be resort towns on barrier islands off the coast of Louisiana in the mid-1800's and the islands don't even exist any more, because they were destroyed by hurricanes and completely erased from the map.


So how much responsibility is the government supposed to have for people's bad choices, particularly in places where this has been happening literally for as long as civilization has existed?


This is what was on the world news at least 24 hours ahead of time (still more than enough for people to get up and leave).



I've already posted this before in the past.

News people shocked at the idiocy of the people not leaving, even after the mayor and governor called for an evacuation.

Pay attention, he stands there all day, for day time to night, as nobody in the background is doing anything.

The forecast they gave ahead of time was for 22feet of water and for the city to be flooded, and combined with the previous video, they were even expecting some high-rise buildings to collapse.

Crud I forgot. I can't post the next video I was going to post, because of what happens at the end. I think I got banned last time I posted it. Search "Katrina non-evacuation" on youtube.



louisiana has lost more coast from oil companies cutting canals in the southern marshes. the same marshes that help protect louisiana from hurricanes...also with man altering the flow of the mississippi river didn't help matters either...
Flashflood claims 34 lives in Compostela, including soldiers on disaster duty

At least 34 were reported dead Tuesday evening, including soldiers on board an army truck that overturned in New Bataan, Compostela Valley, after a flashflood triggered by strong rains brought by Typhoon Paul, according to Compostela Valley Governor Arturo Uy. The soldiers were reportedly enroute to assist in evacuation operations.

Hey Governor announced the details in a breaking report on 24 Hours Oras, citing information as of 5 pm

He said Drowning was the cause of the deaths.

"Drowning .. terrifying because your in flowing water, "Uy said.

However, Uy was Unable to give a breakdown of how many of the dead were soldiers and how many were civilians.

Uy also said the Conditions in the area were now somewhat stable. - HS / BM, GMA News
Everyone have a great Tuesday. Aussie, have a great Wednesday!
Quoting aislinnpaps:
Everyone have a great Tuesday. Aussie, have a great Wednesday!

Salamat po (Translated from Tagalog to english means, Thank you)

Have a good day to you too.
Quoting yoboi:



louisiana has lost more coast from oil companies cutting canals in the southern marshes. the same marshes that help protect louisiana from hurricanes...also with man altering the flow of the mississippi river didn't help matters either...


It always cracks me up yoboi to hear these engineers and scientists having all the answers.

They think they know it all to fix Mother Nature.

Ha!!

LMFAO.

You can't fix or alter MOTHER NATURE. SHE WILL ALWAYS WIN.

Oh my goodness!!



Quoting aislinnpaps:
Everyone have a great Tuesday. Aussie, have a great Wednesday!


Have a great day of teaching, aislinnpaps! Just think: Winter Break is coming soon!! :-]



Quoting BahaHurican:
Like the Cheneriere Caminada storm in 1893 that killed 2000 and wiped out a town at landfall... Like the Chandeleur Islands which have been cut again and again by storms... the info is out there on the devastation landfalling hurricanes can cause, but the same arrogance of people causes us to end up in the same situation again and again.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and my "fave"... Last Island, which is IMO the ultimate hurricane doom party of our time... But it's all the government's fault.

The only thing I can say is simply...they are called "barrier islands" for a reason. Yep, it is wonderful to build on them and enjoy the view of the ocean from your house/hotel, but no matter what, Mother Nature is going to do what she is going to do. These natural barrier islands are just that...a protective barrier from storms for the mainland. Continue to build and more devastation WILL happen. "You pays your money, you takes your chances." And with, that, off to work. You all have a great day. Prayers for those in harms way from Bopha.
Quoting indianrivguy:
Mornin" gang!

Evening Aussie!


Morning!

Any idea what the name of these flat bottom clouds are?

Quoting AussieStorm:
Any idea what the name of these flat bottom clouds are?




WhoA!!

:)



Quoting CosmicEvents:
Is Ray Nagin a mayor in Mindanao these days?

I nominate this as the gaff of the year! SHARP!!
Quoting AussieStorm:
Any idea what the name of these flat bottom clouds are?

I'd say cumulus fractus, underlit by sunlight reflected off the water...
Inquirer Group ‏@inquirerdotnet
At least 43 dead after being carried away by floods in New Bataan, Compostela Valley-- AFP Eastern Mindanao Command | @francesgm #PabloPH
Cebu Daily News ‏@cebudailynews
RT @piacentralviz: NEGOR: Fastcraft Delta 1 sank n Sabang, Siquijor w/ 6 crew + boat capt missng. Delta 3 w8ng 4 rescue ofshore in San...
While it has been warm in the lower 48, Alaska is still getting crushed with cold air.

Here is the forecast showing no end in sight.

"UPPER TANANA VALLEY AND THE FORTYMILE COUNTRY- INCLUDING...TOK...TANACROSS...EAGLE...TETLIN...NOR THWAY...ALCAN... CHICKEN...BOUNDARY 704 PM AKST MON DEC 3 2012 .

TONIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. PATCHY FOG. LOWS 35 TO 45 BELOW. LIGHT WINDS. .

TUESDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. PATCHY FOG. HIGHS 25 TO 35 BELOW. LIGHT WINDS. .

TUESDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. PATCHY FOG. LOWS 30 TO 40 BELOW. LIGHT WINDS. .

WEDNESDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. PATCHY FOG. HIGHS 25 TO 35 BELOW. LIGHT WINDS. .

WEDNESDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. LOWS 30 TO 40 BELOW. LIGHT WINDS. .

THURSDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. HIGHS AROUND 35 BELOW. .

THURSDAY NIGHT THROUGH SATURDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY. LOWS AROUND 40 BELOW. HIGHS 30 TO 35 BELOW. .

SUNDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. HIGHS AROUND 20 BELOW. .SUNDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. LOWS AROUND 40 BELOW. .

MONDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. HIGHS AROUND 20 BELOW.


Link to zoom-loop.

Eye is detectable again.
I'm so sorry to hear about all those deaths.

If anyone is interested here is one of the sites I have been using for info on Pablo/Bopha. It has weather and news updates and other info.

It is Western Pacific Weather dot com

After a late night last night, I'm going to bed early. Prayers to the people in southern and central Philippines dealing with TY Pablo. Ingat. Magandang Gabi
Quoting nymore:
If anyone is interested here is one of the sites I have been using for info on Pablo/Bopha. It has weather and news updates.


It is Western Pacific Weather dot com


I'm using Philippines News twitter feeds and also Hash tags.





And with that


Goodnight ;(
Quoting AussieStorm:
Any idea what the name of these flat bottom clouds are?

Being that they look to be in the 2500 to 3000 feet area I would say a stratus layer.
Quoting RTSplayer:


The heck is your problem?

When they call a "Mandatory Evacuation" that really isn't mandatory, because the law of the land doesn't allow it, but it's been that way forever. Nagin was just trying to get more power to try to save more lives, but you're going to fault him for that too.

I have no idea how stupid the average person really is, but maybe it's worse than I imagined.

My family lived here for as long as I know, and everyone knows you don't ride out a hurricane in NOLA.

In the past several decades before Katrina they had category 3 landfalls left, right, and center and they had black and whites of Camille and Betsy, so nobody had any excuse for not knowing they were supposed to evacuate. This has happened before just a few decades earlier, so it's not like they didn't know about it.


Then in the case of Rita, you get a bunch of people who also didn't evacuate, or who chose to build in the same place that got demolished by Audrey, and they come out after the fact and boo hoo about how it's never happened before, when in fact the previous one in the same location was 20mph worse at landfall.


What's more, if you check the history of hurricanes in the region, Katrina and Betsy might not even be the two most powerful hurricanes to have hit NOLA region. This happens every 2 or 3 decades, and it's the same thing every time: blame the government. There's even records of it happening during the war of 1812 when the British naval officer kept a journal of a really powerful NOLA landfall that killed a couple thousand people.

They've hit coming right to left, left to right, and bottom to top, and everything between, and literally scour the region on some occasions, and in a few cases wiped out resort islands from the map. There used to be resort towns on barrier islands off the coast of Louisiana in the mid-1800's and the islands don't even exist any more, because they were destroyed by hurricanes and completely erased from the map.


So how much responsibility is the government supposed to have for people's bad choices, particularly in places where this has been happening literally for as long as civilization has existed?


This is what was on the world news at least 24 hours ahead of time (still more than enough for people to get up and leave).



I've already posted this before in the past.

News people shocked at the idiocy of the people not leaving, even after the mayor and governor called for an evacuation.

Pay attention, he stands there all day, for day time to night, as nobody in the background is doing anything.

The forecast they gave ahead of time was for 22feet of water and for the city to be flooded, and combined with the previous video, they were even expecting some high-rise buildings to collapse.

Crud I forgot. I can't post the next video I was going to post, because of what happens at the end. I think I got banned last time I posted it. Search "Katrina non-evacuation" on youtube.
All that bluster and you still did not address the fact that Blanco and Nagin had done way too little advance work to get ready for the likes of Katrina. And that Blanco put politics ahead of sanity in the 48 hours before the storm arrived.
540 AussieStorm: Any idea what the name of these flat bottom clouds are?

Puffy tops on a flat bottom under 6,000feet -- stratocumulus

Stratocumulous with irregularly patterned holes showing the sky above -- stratocumulus perlucidus

A cumulus fractus looks like a cottonball with its threads being being pulled apart in all directions.
Quoting AGWcreationists:
All that bluster and you still did not address the fact that Blanco and Nagin had done way too little advance work to get ready for the likes of Katrina. And that Blanco put politics ahead of sanity in the 48 hours before the storm arrived.


I have video evidence that says otherwise, but I'll get banned if I post it, because of what happens at the end. I even told you how to find it.

You're just trolling at this point.
Sucks for the Philippines
Worse and worse. Cateel is near where Bopha first hit land; maybe it was slammed by the northern eyewall.

Twitter:
ABS-CBN News Channel ‏@ANCALERTS: Now on ANC: Davao Oriental Gov. Corazon Malanyaon as 23 reported killed in Cateel town
Light Rain Mist in WPB all morning!:)
Quoting RTSplayer:


That's what I meant.

Anyone remember the story of Star Island?
Quoting barbamz:
Worse and worse. Cateel is near where Bopha first hit land; maybe it was slammed by the northern eyewall.

Twitter:
ABS-CBN News Channel %u200F@ANCALERTS: Now on ANC: Davao Oriental Gov. Corazon Malanyaon as 23 reported killed in Cateel town


The town is right on the water, and the PAGASA was only warning for a 175kph (110mph) storm, which is a terrible estimate even if it was supposedly 10-minute sustained.

The storm probably made it's actual landfall with winds somewhere between 160mph and 170mph sustained, with a 9 mile wide eye.

The town is built right up to the water, like something you made in SimCity. I suspect the 19ft storm surge, plus wave action, with 160mph winds blowing above it has probably scoured much of the south side of the town, which is on the north side of a bay there. the elevation does change a lot, so the entire town was not inundated. Observation height for winds is 10m, and so the parts that would have been above the wave action would have gotten at least the observation height winds, if not stronger winds.

Last I heard there was at least one location on the eastern part of the island reported a 6 meter storm surge, which is 19.5 feet. If you look on Google Earth you can see the elevations at the back, western side of the river delta are less than than, all the way back to about 1/5th of the way into those fields. Which means the entire front line of houses would have been submerged by a 6 meter storm surge. I'm not sure whether that included the wave action or not, as sometimes early reports get things mixed up.

The elevation of the sand bar across the mouth of the river is only 1ft to 3ft across most of it's length, which means it would be insignificant to slow down an 19.5ft storm surge.


When they finally get video in there, I'd expect most of the buildings on the east and southern parts of that town to be flattened.
The Sun is out now!:)
Quoting BahaHurican:
Revisionist non-history.
Like I said, spewing the typical talking points. It's documented fact that Nagin spent Saturday working out the legal ramifications of NOLA getting sued if a mandatory evacuation were ordered. One would think that would have been worked out long before a major hurricane was bearing down on the city. Nagin did not order a mandatory evacuation until Sunday morning. Just as the NHC has been criticized for not issue hurricane warnings for Sandy, a mandatory evacuation order carries a lot more weight with people than a voluntary evacuation order. And Blanco dithered with Bush about the nature of the federal response before and after Katrina hit, unlike Christie who worked closely with Obama before Sandy hit, politics be damned.
i know they underestimated the intensity here, but the rest of the info may be useful...

More than 40,000 people have been moved into shelter as the powerful Typhoon Bopha hits the southern Philippines.

At least four people have died in the storm, although unconfirmed reports suggested that the death toll was as high as 40.

The typhoon made landfall on Mindanao early on Tuesday, bringing heavy rain and wind gusts of 210 km/h (130mph).

The storm has caused power cuts, travel disruption and flooding in areas at risk of landslides.

The governor of the gold-mining province of Compostela Valley was quoted as saying that at least 33 villagers and soldiers had drowned when torrents of water rushed down a mountain on Andap village in the valley.

Arturo Uy said the victims included villagers who were sheltering in the village hall, which was engulfed in a flash flood.

An army truck carrying soldiers and civilians was also swept away.


Benito Ramos, of the national disaster agency, said the death toll was expected to rise once soldiers and police gained access to the far-flung villages isolated by floods, fallen trees and damaged communications.

According to one report, quoting a military spokesman, about 20 people including six soldiers were missing after fast-moving water swept through an army base.

The eye of the 600-km wide storm was moving west at 26 km/h and was expected to sweep over southern and central provinces before reaching the South China Sea on Thursday, forecasters said.

Bopha comes a year after Typhoon Washi killed more than 1,500 people in the southern Philippines.

President Benigno Aquino had urged people in the typhoon's path to take Bopha seriously. The evacuations had prevented the toll being higher, officials said.

"It could be the strongest to hit the country this year," he said. "But we can minimise the damage and loss of lives if we help each other," Mr Aquino said on Monday.

The Philippines is struck by several typhoons and tropical storms every year.
Quoting SFLWeatherman:
Light Rain Mist in WPB all morning!:)

Lucky! Enjoy it. Nothing such around here in over a month.
Quoting RTSplayer:


When they finally get video in there, I'd expect most of the buildings on the east and southern parts of that town to be flattened.


There are rumours this might unfortunately be true. They are still not able to connect or to reach several towns in this area.
RTSplayer

Last I heard there was at least one location on the eastern part of the island reported a 6 meter storm surge, which is 19.5 feet. If you look on Google Earth you can see the elevations at the back, western side of the river delta are less than than, all the way back to about 1/5th of the way into those fields. Which means the entire front line of houses would have been submerged by a 6 meter storm surge.

I am not sure about that, it could be true I guess but these two images show something different.



Quoting RTSplayer:


I have video evidence that says otherwise, but I'll get banned if I post it, because of what happens at the end. I even told you how to find it.

You're just trolling at this point.



No, she's not.

Nice convenient way to dodge a conversation and absolve yourself of any accountability.

Three gold stars for you!


Quoting RTSplayer:


I have video evidence that says otherwise, but I'll get banned if I post it, because of what happens at the end. I even told you how to find it.

You're just trolling at this point.
I am not trolling. Pretending the problems with Katrina were the fault of the feds and also not serious problems with state and local response are insane and deterimental towards people learing how to do better in the future. Chistie put politics aside to do what was best for his state - in the week before a presidential election, a far more politically charged time than mid-2005. Meanwhile, in NYC and New York State, politics has seriously hindered the response to Sandy. And FEMA still has problems, an example being not pre-positioning signficant stocks of bottled water from their central supply depots. Funny how we don't hear much about that.
Good Morning all..
My heart goes out to our brothers and sister Philipinos effected by Bopha..

Webcam from near my location..


My WU weather..





One could only imagine how high the water had to be to inflict this damage....

Its sad to see this. I know people on Mindanao. Have not heard anything about their status. Trust all is OK with them....
Quoting nymore:
RTSplayer

Last I heard there was at least one location on the eastern part of the island reported a 6 meter storm surge, which is 19.5 feet. If you look on Google Earth you can see the elevations at the back, western side of the river delta are less than than, all the way back to about 1/5th of the way into those fields. Which means the entire front line of houses would have been submerged by a 6 meter storm surge.

I am not sure about that, it could be true I guess but these two images show something different.





See Aussi-Post No 508: Storm surge spawned by typhoon ‘Pablo’ hits Catanduanes / LEGAZPI CITY, Albay, Philippines —-A storm surge as high as six meters hit the shorelines of Catanduanes on Tuesday, preventing passenger vessels from docking in the Virac port, the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) in Bicol said.

Now look where Catanduanes is located: Very far in the North. This is amazing.

Quoting bappit:

That was a pretty clear message. Can't get the cops out to detain thousands of people. Even if it were legal, it ain't practical. Meanwhile ...

Haters hate. Whiners whine.
A message delayed by a full day. BTW, the legalities that Nagin was looking into was over the city getting sued for lost business, not the removal of people. Typically, in the political divide over the Katrina response, you downplay the fact that Nagin hadn't prepared in advance for such a disaster. Which does not lend well towards learning from the disaster.

It's like the financial crisis - a culumnation of problems with both political parties, the Fed, regulators, rating agencies and corporations - but too many people want to look for just one culprit in the name of politics.

Something as screwed up as the Katrina response is due to problems at ALL levels, down to the people who chose to stay when they had a car in their driveway - and might have felt that way because of racial attitudes upstate in Louisiana where they didn't want NOLA refugees in their counties.
Quoting AGWcreationists:
A message delayed by a full day. BTW, the legalities that Nagin was looking into was over the city getting sued for lost business, not the removal of people. Typically, in the political divide over the Katrina response, you downplay the fact that Nagin hadn't prepared in advance for such a disaster. Which does not lend well towards learning from the disaster.

It's like the financial crisis - a culumnation of problems with both political parties, the Fed, regulators, rating agencies and corporations - but too many people want to look for just one culprit in the name of politics.

Something as screwed up as the Katrina response is due to problems at ALL levels, down to the people who chose to stay when they had a car in their driveway - and might have felt that way because of racial attitudes upstate in Louisiana where they didn't want NOLA refugees in their counties.



In all respect, (I am a strong believer in the 1st amendment and I respect ALL opinions), could we please focus on the situation at hand in Mindanao instead of what happened 7 years ago? Some of us have friends on this island and are trying to get information on the situation. And I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, I'm just concerned for my friends and I want news from Mindanao....
Good Morning folks..still no rain.........
Latest Navy Bopha image..



Latest Navy 98S image..
Quoting AGWcreationists:
A message delayed by a full day. BTW, the legalities that Nagin was looking into was over the city getting sued for lost business, not the removal of people. Typically, in the political divide over the Katrina response, you downplay the fact that Nagin hadn't prepared in advance for such a disaster. Which does not lend well towards learning from the disaster.

It's like the financial crisis - a culumnation of problems with both political parties, the Fed, regulators, rating agencies and corporations - but too many people want to look for just one culprit in the name of politics.

Something as screwed up as the Katrina response is due to problems at ALL levels, down to the people who chose to stay when they had a car in their driveway - and might have felt that way because of racial attitudes upstate in Louisiana where they didn't want NOLA refugees in their counties.


In a (probably vain) attempt to end this and possibly get back to more important business, I checked on snopes and found this Link

Quoting AGWcreationists:
I am not trolling. Pretending the problems with Katrina were the fault of the feds and also not serious problems with state and local response are insane and deterimental towards people learing how to do better in the future. Chistie put politics aside to do what was best for his state - in the week before a presidential election, a far more politically charged time than mid-2005. Meanwhile, in NYC and New York State, politics has seriously hindered the response to Sandy. And FEMA still has problems, an example being not pre-positioning signficant stocks of bottled water from their central supply depots. Funny how we don't hear much about that.


OK..enough bickering.before Katrina FEMA was an "after the fact organization". They did no rescues, water, ice, etc. FEMA is tasked by congressional law, called the Stafford Act, to assist in the rebuilding of disater affected areas provided the damage meets a minimun threshold of dollers per capita. This new FEMA, that was brought about by a lack of Local, State and Federal planing and reaction has taken on a public persona . It seems the public wants FEMA to be both the National Guard and the Red Cross. Sorry folks...the law isn't written that way. Also I am growing tired of the crying from the east coast. True it is a huge disaster but these are the same people that were incredulos and called us stupid for not leaving for Katrina. How does that shoe fit your feet? And yes I am NOLA born and NOLA proud, but I did evacuate. It is called personal responsibility. The hand out mentality of this great country will be the downfall of it. &$ and drizzle here in NOLA
Quoting barbamz:


See Aussi-Post No 508: Storm surge spawned by typhoon %u2018Pablo%u2019 hits Catanduanes / LEGAZPI CITY, Albay, Philippines %u2014-A storm surge as high as six meters hit the shorelines of Catanduanes on Tuesday, preventing passenger vessels from docking in the Virac port, the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) in Bicol said.

Now look where Catanduanes is located: Very far in the North. This is amazing.



Precisely. Look where Catanduanes is located. 450 miles north of the landfall location. Even Sandy couldn't make a surge more than a couple feet high that far out, and this was more like an Andrew-sized storm. Obviously, we're dealing with a translation issue here, in which they are referring to waves kicked up by the storm. Six-metre wave heights up there are plausible, and that could certainly be sufficient to interfere with passenger shipping traffic.

That said, my guess is that a surge of around five or six metres might have taken place near where the eye made landfall, judging by precedents.
Quoting goosegirl1:


In a (probably vain) attempt to end this and possibly get back to more important business, I checked on snopes and found this Link



Thank you for that goosegirl1..
I was hoping someone would respond to it that had more pertinent knowledge than I..
Quoting AGWcreationists:
I am not trolling. Pretending the problems with Katrina were the fault of the feds and also not serious problems with state and local response are insane and deterimental towards people learing how to do better in the future.


I doubt you actually read anything I wrote yesterday, whether or not you read it, you clearly didn't understand my position.


I don't blame any government.

I blame individuals for making foolish choices, given the history of these storms is well known, well documented, and well published.

Anybody with a television set can watch the Weather Channel at any time to know what's going on presently, and the Weather Channel, local mets, and the History Channel have all done a fine job of explaining in every possible way where the dangers are and how bad they are, and this was not new since 2005.

Intelligent people don't wait around for governors, mayors, or presidents to baby-sit them. They can watch the News and Weather for themselves even days ahead of time to know what's going on.


Chistie put politics aside to do what was best for his state - in the week before a presidential election, a far more politically charged time than mid-2005. Meanwhile, in NYC and New York State, politics has seriously hindered the response to Sandy. And FEMA still has problems, an example being not pre-positioning signficant stocks of bottled water from their central supply depots. Funny how we don't hear much about that.



Well, you can't possibly know exactly where the supplies are going to be needed nor exactly where they will be safe, particularly in a storm like Sandy which was becoming non-tropical.

It is foolish to expect someone to be at your door a few hours after the worst weather passes. Real world logistics just doesn't work that way. The agencies don't even know who needs help, when or where until several hours later, because they typically need eye-witness reports from news or firemen or police, or else wait to fly over in a helicopter to do an assessment. It wouldn't make sense to start trucking everything around before you even know who really needs it.
Quoting AGWcreationists:
I am not trolling. Pretending the problems with Katrina were the fault of the feds and also not serious problems with state and local response are insane and deterimental towards people learing how to do better in the future. Chistie put politics aside to do what was best for his state - in the week before a presidential election, a far more politically charged time than mid-2005. Meanwhile, in NYC and New York State, politics has seriously hindered the response to Sandy. And FEMA still has problems, an example being not pre-positioning signficant stocks of bottled water from their central supply depots. Funny how we don't hear much about that.
One thing is very clear: obviously cognizant of the embarrassingly bad pre- and post-Katrina response of the Bush administration--"Heckuva a job, Brownie!"--the current administration did a far superior job handling Sandy, which ultimately affected a far larger number of people and businesses than did Katrina. And Gov. Christie is to be commended for rising above party politics, if only for a few fleeting moments, to place people above ideology. (And in agreement with the link provided by goosegirl1, it's true that while both Nagin and Blanco somewhat dropped the ball, they overall each did yeoman's work with a pretty bad situation. Kudos...)
Quoting barbamz:


See Aussi-Post No 508: Storm surge spawned by typhoon ‘Pablo’ hits Catanduanes / LEGAZPI CITY, Albay, Philippines —-A storm surge as high as six meters hit the shorelines of Catanduanes on Tuesday, preventing passenger vessels from docking in the Virac port, the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) in Bicol said.

Now look where Catanduanes is located: Very far in the North. This is amazing.



That's incredible.

That's so far away from where the eye actually hit.
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN NEW ORLEANS OVER 7 YEARS AGO. IT IS DONE AND OVER WITH AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOW.

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET IT GO
Quoting nymore:
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IT NEW ORLEANS OVER 7 YEARS AGO. IT IS DONE AND OVER WITH AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOW.

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET IT GO

Post of the Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quoting nymore:
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IT NEW ORLEANS OVER 7 YEARS AGO. IT IS DONE AND OVER WITH AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOW.

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET IT GO
Oh my.And in caps also
Quoting nymore:
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN NEW ORLEANS OVER 7 YEARS AGO. IT IS DONE AND OVER WITH AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOW.

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET IT GO


Problem is that's exactly the mentality that got over a thousand people killed in NOLA and Mississippi.

"Who cares what happened in Betsy or Camille. I'm staying!!" - Last words.
From Bopha landfall area

Translation from Tagalog language via google:

Recorded as of 23 dead and 95 wounded in Cateel, Davao Oriental also deeply beaten by Cyclone Pablo.

Col said. Romil Mitra, director of the Davao Oriental Provincial Police Office recovered the bodies of the destroyed houses and establishments in Poblacion still only Cateel.

He said they have not been off-limits to the secluded village so feared further increases the number of killed or wounded.

It also mentioned that now isolated town of Cateel, Boston and Bangaga since the collapse of the bridge, nor He added communication and electricity there.

Right now he said, the bus parked treated or temporarily placed the wounded because of Cateels ruined homes and hospitals.

Report from Dennis Datu, Radyo Patrol 42

Source
Quoting nymore:
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN NEW ORLEANS OVER 7 YEARS AGO. IT IS DONE AND OVER WITH AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOW.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
--George Santayana, Life of Reason I
Quoting Neapolitan:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
--George Santayana, Life of Reason I




Precisely, Neo!


Quoting RTSplayer:


Problem is that's exactly the mentality that got over a thousand people killed in NOLA and Mississippi.

"Who cares what happened in Betsy or Camille. I'm staying!!" - Last words.



Just one thig to add, and then I for one will drop it... I live in WV for pete's sake, and I was following Katrina and watching it buzz saw right into NOLA. If I could see it, I'm pretty certain everyone else could, too.

It comes down to responsabilty for self and others. Know the hazards in your area, and prepare. If you wait for the government to save you or tell you to leave, obviously you waited too long.












Quoting goosegirl1:



Just one thig to add, and then I for one will drop it... I live in WV for pete's sake, and I was following Katrina and watching it buzz saw right into NOLA. If I could see it, I'm pretty certain everyone else could, too.

It comes down to responsabilty for self and others. Know the hazards in your area, and prepare. If you wait for the government to save you or tell you to leave, obviously you waited too long.













Very well said. Now, back to the Philippines.....
Quoting nymore:
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN NEW ORLEANS OVER 7 YEARS AGO. IT IS DONE AND OVER WITH AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOW.

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET IT GO
"NEA" I just dropped you from my bucket list... I think this person that is called nymore (and in caps) made #4 with people I want to meet in person... Please don't be offended Nea, you were dropped behind high heeled shoes yesterday...Luv ya Nea...
Bopha's death toll is already at 52 this morning.

Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
Bopha's death toll is already at 52 this morning.


And if i read right, theres at least 100 or so missing?
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
Bopha's death toll is already at 52 this morning.



New overview report:
Pablo claims 56 lives in Davao Region
Quoting Neapolitan:
One thing is very clear: obviously cognizant of the embarrassingly bad pre- and post-Katrina response of the Bush administration--"Heckuva a job, Brownie!"--the current administration did a far superior job handling Sandy, which ultimately affected a far larger number of people and businesses than did Katrina. And Gov. Christie is to be commended for rising above party politics, if only for a few fleeting moments, to place people above ideology. (And in agreement with the link provided by goosegirl1, it's true that while both Nagin and Blanco somewhat dropped the ball, they overall each did yeoman's work with a pretty bad situation. Kudos...)
This is a good writeup of the overall problems at all levels with Katrina. Nagin and Blanco had plenty of problems of their own:

http://www.hstoday.us/channels/dhs/single-article -page/hurricane-isaac-presents-challenge-to-local- state-and-federal-leadership/8e3d3639429e8cd920db2 e20c6ed3de6.html

Looks like there isn't much point in discussing this, it seems everyone has their own political biases that color their views. Didn't mean to derail the larger discussion here.
Quoting AGWcreationists:
This is a good writeup of the overall problems at all levels with Katrina. Nagin and Blanco had plenty of problems of their own:

http://www.hstoday.us/channels/dhs/single-article -page/hurricane-isaac-presents-challenge-to-local- state-and-federal-leadership/8e3d3639429e8cd920db2 e20c6ed3de6.html

Looks like there isn't much point in discussing this, it seems everyone has their own political biases that color their views. Didn't mean to derail the larger discussion here.

I actually agree with your points, its just I'm concerned with the present situation right now...
Sorry if I seemed abrasive earlier.
Quoting barbamz:


New overview report:
Pablo claims 56 lives in Davao Region


80 dead as Pablo rips through Mindanao
ABS-CBNnews.com
Posted at 12/04/2012 9:47 PM | Updated as of 12/04/2012 10:58 PM

Quoting nymore:
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN NEW ORLEANS OVER 7 YEARS AGO. IT IS DONE AND OVER WITH AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT IT NOW.

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET IT GO
nymore....... In your mind there must be a statute of limitations when we no longer think of all of the deaths in a past hurricane.ie: Katrina..Am I right nymore??
604. yoboi
Quoting RTSplayer:



Well, you can't possibly know exactly where the supplies are going to be needed nor exactly where they will be safe, particularly in a storm like Sandy which was becoming non-tropical.

It is foolish to expect someone to be at your door a few hours after the worst weather passes. Real world logistics just doesn't work that way. The agencies don't even know who needs help, when or where until several hours later, because they typically need eye-witness reports from news or firemen or police, or else wait to fly over in a helicopter to do an assessment. It wouldn't make sense to start trucking everything around before you even know who really needs it.



actually with logistics you can pre stage supplies did not happen with sandy and they knew where sandy was going to make lanfall days in advance....fema blew it....but whats new...best thing to do is not count on the gov for anything be prepared before a disaster.....
In case you missed this.. US Drought causing the Mississippi river to drop forcing stoppage of commercial traffic in order to blow up jagged rocks in river bed which prevent the passage of barges and I hope this is not a run on sentence... :/

Link
606. yoboi
Quoting Neapolitan:
One thing is very clear: obviously cognizant of the embarrassingly bad pre- and post-Katrina response of the Bush administration--"Heckuva a job, Brownie!"--the current administration did a far superior job handling Sandy, which ultimately affected a far larger number of people and businesses than did Katrina. And Gov. Christie is to be commended for rising above party politics, if only for a few fleeting moments, to place people above ideology. (And in agreement with the link provided by goosegirl1, it's true that while both Nagin and Blanco somewhat dropped the ball, they overall each did yeoman's work with a pretty bad situation. Kudos...)



it starts at the local level but i understand why you won't be to harsh on them because they were both from the dem party....state has to ask for fed's help fed's can't just go bust in and takeover but that might change in the next couple of yrs....
Quoting RTSplayer:



Well, you can't possibly know exactly where the supplies are going to be needed nor exactly where they will be safe, particularly in a storm like Sandy which was becoming non-tropical.

It is foolish to expect someone to be at your door a few hours after the worst weather passes. Real world logistics just doesn't work that way. The agencies don't even know who needs help, when or where until several hours later, because they typically need eye-witness reports from news or firemen or police, or else wait to fly over in a helicopter to do an assessment. It wouldn't make sense to start trucking everything around before you even know who really needs it.
Will respond one more time here. The water was in Georgia and Virginia. It could have easily moved by the truckload to Central NJ to where it could have been quickly distributed. The new FEMA was supposed to massively pre-deploy such supplies. They did not. There also was a lack of wargaming for issues such as gasoline shortages. What this points out is the limitation of foresight that is common in many organizations, both governmental and private. Pretending such problems don't exist is no way to solve them.

BTW, that Snopes article is extremely vague and omits a tremendous amount of detail.
Quoting yoboi:



it starts at the local level but i understand why you won't be to harsh on them because they were both from the dem party....state has to ask for fed's help fed's can't just go bust in and takeover but that might change in the next couple of yrs....



Some just want bigger, more powerful, more intrusive government.

And that's the cold, hard truth...



Quoting AGWcreationists:
This is a good writeup of the overall problems at all levels with Katrina. Nagin and Blanco had plenty of problems of their own:

http://www.hstoday.us/channels/dhs/single-article -page/hurricane-isaac-presents-challenge-to-local- state-and-federal-leadership/8e3d3639429e8cd920db2 e20c6ed3de6.html

Looks like there isn't much point in discussing this, it seems everyone has their own political biases that color their views. Didn't mean to derail the larger discussion here.



It's not a political issue.

What's so hard about the concept that everybody should keep up with the weather for themselves, and realize the realistic limits of where they live, and take personal responsibility to save their own life?

Katrina wasn't even a pop-up hurricane. It hit land in Florida as a max TS/weak cat 1, and was all over the weather channel, CNN, and yes even FOX news, and everybody knew about where it was going.

I knew it was out there 6 days ahead of time, because it had already been reported by NOAA and all the news and weather agencies, and I didn't even use internet tools at the time. In fact, while watching Katrina in the Gulf in 2005 is the first time I started using the old NOAA satellite site and buoy data site regularly.

Although initially it was forecast by TWC to re-curve much harder than it actually did, that level of perfection in forecasting did not exist at the time, and NHC actually had it pretty good, but not perfect.
Quoting TomballTXPride:



Some just want bigger, more powerful, more intrusive government.

And that's the cold, hard truth...





Not some...the majority. Anyone whom has any questions about what FEMA is legally able to do please go read the 44CFR (code of federal regulations).
611. VR46L
Quoting yoboi:



actually with logistics you can pre stage supplies did not happen with sandy and they knew where sandy was going to make lanfall days in advance....fema blew it....but whats new...best thing to do is not count on the gov for anything be prepared before a disaster.....


You know you have a point as regards Sandy's landfall except for the GFS the rest of the models were showing near exactly where she was going nearly a week in advance and the Euro in my opinion had her pretty much completely right . Really there should have been no excuses about people not evacuating or having everything in place when it happened I never seen a storm so well predicted if you ignore the outlier ...GFS
Quoting yoboi:



actually with logistics you can pre stage supplies did not happen with sandy and they knew where sandy was going to make lanfall days in advance....fema blew it....but whats new...best thing to do is not count on the gov for anything be prepared before a disaster.....
Good post. People who are old enough ( and responsible Enough ) not to mention intelligent enough to watch and listen to weather reports and news updates should take action on there own part, especially those areas which are at risk for storms and other natural disasters, instead of counting on government or other agencies to save them. I have been through hurricanes and knew what to expect. We were prepared, and survived with little assistance from local and federal government. I am by no means saying that people should not receive government aid, just do not think of them as a cure all after a major disaster.
There also was a lack of wargaming for issues such as gasoline shortages.


The government can't do anything about that.

Capitalistic, corporate monopolies own all the fuel, and the distribution stations as well. Blame them for fuel shortages, or have people blame themselves for not buying enough ahead of time.


What this points out is the limitation of foresight that is common in many organizations, both governmental and private. Pretending such problems don't exist is no way to solve them.


Who do you expect to make individual plans for every family and then ensure the families actually obey them?

If people won't even obey a general "life or limb" warning to get to a safer location, why would you expect them to obey some specific list of things, which nobody could possibly anticipate every detail anyway?!


Maybe our government should do like Castro and just arrest everyone who doesn't evacuate and take them away forcibly. At least then people like you couldn't blame them for idiotic loss of life that was mostly caused by individual choices.
Katrina was a political issue many people living in New Orleans did not have the means to evacuate they knew the storm was coming though, finding transport and a place to stay is expensive and many people simply couldn't do it. So the government (local, state and national) were tasked with protecting or evacuating the people because the government is supposed to protect the people. But plans to evacuate the poor fell apart, the super dome was significantly under stocked and unprepared and national aid took far to long to reach New Orleans.
Super typhoon Bopha smashed into the southern Philippines island of Mindanao early this morning with estimated sustained winds of 160 mph and torrential, flooding rains.

Flood waters “rampaged down a mountain, engulfing emergency shelters and washing away an army truck” the Associated Press (AP) reports. The reported death toll from the storm has reached at least 40 people and will likely climb “because several other bodies could not immediately be retrieved from floodwaters” the AP says.
The UK Met office says Bopha was the most intense typhoon on record to strike the island of Mindanao. It adds the storm produced 3.6 inches of rain in 6 hours at Malaybalay, a city on the island.

The passage over Mindanao and interaction with land has weakened Bopha. But it remains a formidable typhoon with peaks winds around 100 mph, equivalent to a category 2 hurricane. Tracking through the northern Sulu Sea, it is forecast to continue west-northwest through the west-central Philippines. By tomorrow, it will depart and head into the South China Sea.
Meteorologically, the storm was notable for reaching such a high intensity so close to the equator. Writes the Weather Channel:

Bopha just missed being the closest-to-equator category-five equivalent typhoon on record in the western North Pacific Basin (or any other basin, for that matter), reaching that intensity at 7.4 degrees north latitude Monday morning (U.S. time). Only Typhoon Louise in 1964, becoming a category-five equivalent typhoon at 7.3 degrees north latitude, was closer to the equator.

Waves sweep coastal village in Cebu
By Jhunnex Napallacan
Source: Inquirer Visayas

CEBU CITY—Big waves spawned by Typhoon “Pablo” on Tuesday night destroyed the sea wall and 17 houses and damaged seven government offices in Boljoon town, about 100 km south of this city.

The typhoon also displaced at least 300 persons — among them residents of the 17 houses that were washed out by big waves in the coastal village of Poblacion, Boljoon.

The others were residents who were forced to leave their homes in anticipation of the storm that placed southern Cebu under storm signal number 3 on Tuesday.

The evacuees were temporarily housed inside the church, private school and covered court in Sitio (subvillage) Talisay, Barangay (village) Poblacion.

Boljoon Municipal Planning Officer Engr. Corazon Medida said the surge of big waves occurred at 7:30 p.m. which lasted for at least 30 minutes. She added smaller waves continued at 10:30 p.m. Tuesday.

The big waves made some residents think that a tsunami had hit the town. A listener of radio station dyLA sent a text, asking if there was a tsunami alert because the town’s seawall had collapsed and some houses were washed out.

Medida said the seawall at the town’s baywalk was destroyed after its riprap collapsed.

The strong waves entered the different offices in the municipal hall, which is located near the sea, she added.

The back portion of the municipal hall was affected, including the offices of the social welfare, budget, treasurer, engineering, planning and civil registry as well as the police station.

Cebu Provincial Police Office director Patrocino Comendador said Boljoon policemen had to transfer to another area after seawater entered the police station.

Medida said some documents were damaged by water but they were able to save these since some personnel had reported for work.

But the 17 houses in Sitio Talisay were destroyed by the waves since these were made of light materials, said Medida.

She said most of the occupants failed to save their belongings.

One man, she added tried to get some of his belongings but was almost swept by the waves. Fortunately, the man was saved.

Link


A link to a Times Picayune article about an upcoming storm surge meeting where you can ask questions of the NHC
MANILA, Philippines - At least 33 villagers and soldiers drowned in a southern Philippine town Tuesday when torrents of water dumped by a powerful typhoon cascaded down a mountain, engulfing emergency shelters and an army truck, officials said. The deaths raised the toll from one of the strongest storms to hit the country this year to at least 41.

Gov. Arturo Uy said rain from Typhoon Bopha accumulated atop a mountain and then burst down on Andap village in New Bataan town in hard-hit Compostela Valley province. The victims included villagers who had fled from their homes to a school and village hall, which were then swamped by the flash flood. An army truck carrying soldiers and villagers was washed away.

"They thought that they were already secure in a safe area, but they didn't know the torrents of water would go their way," Uy told DZBB radio.

He said the confirmed death toll in the town was likely to rise because several other bodies could not immediately be retrieved from floodwaters strewn with huge logs and debris.

Army troops and police were not able to reach the town because access roads were blocked, he said.

Bopha slammed into Davao Oriental province region at dawn, its ferocious winds ripping roofs from homes and its 500-kilometer (310-mile) -wide rain band flooding low-lying farmland.

The storm, packing winds of 160 kilometers (100 miles) per hour and gusts of up to 195 kph (121 mph), toppled trees, triggered landslides and sent flash floods surging across the region's mountains and valleys.

Two entire provinces lost power and more than 100 domestic flights were canceled. About 60,000 people fled to emergency shelters.

The dead included three children who were buried by a wall of mud and boulders that plunged down a mountain in Marapat village, also in Compostela Valley. Their bodies were wrapped in blankets by their grieving relatives and placed on a stage in a basketball court.

"The only thing we could do was to save ourselves. It was too late for us to rescue them," said Valentin Pabilana, who survived the landslide.

In Davao Oriental, a poor agricultural and gold-mining province about 1,000 kilometers (620 miles) southeast of Manila, an elderly woman was killed when her house was struck by a falling tree, said Benito Ramos, who heads the government's disaster-response agency.

The other casualties either drowned or were hit by trees, he said, adding that the death toll was expected to rise once soldiers and police gain access to villages isolated by floods, fallen trees and downed communications.

While some 20 typhoons and storms normally lash the archipelago nation annually, the southern provinces battered by Bopha are unaccustomed to fierce typhoons, which normally hit the northern and central Philippines.

A rare storm last December killed more than 1,200 people and left many more homeless and traumatized, including in Cagayan de Oro city, where church bells pealed relentlessly on Tuesday to warn residents to scramble to safety as a major river started to swell.

Officials were taking no chances this year, and President Benigno Aquino III appealed on national TV on Monday for people in Bopha's path to move to safety and take storm warnings seriously.

In Compostela Valley, authorities halted mining operations and ordered villagers to evacuate to prevent a repeat of deadly losses from landslides and the collapse of mine tunnels in previous storms.

Bopha, a Cambodian word for flower or a girl, is the 16th weather disturbance to hit the Philippines this year. Forecasters say at least one more storm may strike the country before Christmas.

___

Associated Press writer Teresa Cerojano contributed to this report.
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
nymore....... In your mind there must be a statute of limitations when we no longer think of all of the deaths in a past hurricane.ie: Katrina..Am I right nymore??

Not at all but this is not about death (if it were why not talk about worse hurricanes to hit the USA in terms of death) this is about who is to blame for those deaths and who is to blame for the response.

As for the flooding- that would be the core of engineers for faults in the design of the levies. Some of which could not even take 50% of the pressure before failing. this happened in 4 cases, most other cases were caused by overtopping causing erosion and failure.

As for a lot of the deaths I would blame people for not leaving when warned to do so. The president, governor or mayor can not stop the storm.

As far as relief efforts I see no clean hands here. The problems did not start to get solved until Lieutenant General Russel Honore got there and started kicking some folks behinds.

620. red0
IR animation of Saturn's south pole taken on Sept 27. I think the entire earth could fit into that eye. Must be a cat 500 or something lol.



Quoting JNCali:
In case you missed this.. US Drought causing the Mississippi river to drop forcing stoppage of commercial traffic in order to blow up jagged rocks in river bed which prevent the passage of barges and I hope this is not a run on sentence... :/

Link


Been expecting this for months.

I wonder how many railroad lanes will be required to replace the shipping traffic if the river dries up or stays too low for a prolonged time?

Economic damage could be some obscene number in the hundreds of billions or maybe even trillion per year if this was to get too dry and stay too dry for like a solid year or more.

It doesn't look impossible for the river to dry up for most or even all of a year, given the drought conditions and the already below average snowfall for this winter for all the tributary basins that feed the Mississippi River.

I wonder which governor or mayor or president we should blame for this disaster whereby so many farms and corporations have centralized their transports, relying too heavily on a river? I mean, it has got to be some elected officials fault, right?
Quoting red0:
IR animation of Saturn's south pole taken on Sept 27. I think the entire earth could fit into that eye. Must be a cat 500 or something lol.




Evacuations immediately!
Super Typhoon Bopha from the International Space Station

(Click image for full size)

So pretty she's kind of ugly. Thoughts are with the folks affected...

Source: NASA
It is valid to compare these two weather events, the 2005 K storm and the 2012 mega-superstorm formerly known as Sandy. There are more, of course, but here are three similarities I see...

1) On the part of state and local government and the general public, disbelief (flip side being misdirected hope) a weather event of this scope could happen.

2) Large number of persons/families left with broken infrastructure and unlivable dwellings (not to mention broken dreams - a whole 'nother category) because a weather event of this scope did happen and they had the misfortune of being in its way.

3) Blame game with little recognition that the death and destruction occurred because a weather event of this scope did happen.

A couple of the dissimilarities...

1) Model forecasting much better in 2012. Improved in seven years.

2) Unlike 2012, in 2005 Government herded persons displaced from their homes onto airplanes bound for parts unknown that turned out to be as far away as Washington State. One lady I met in New Orleans ended up in AZ where she felt welcomed and appreciated. Even at that, after a few months she returned to NOLA. Who wouldn't?
:)

The point of this comment? I'm not sure except I think it's easy to be misinformed and/or brainwashed in these days of non-detailed journalism and internet opinion blogs. I just heard the name of Truckee, CA mispronounced on TWC and the last name of Oklahoma's Gov. Mary Fallin mispronounced on CNN. It's Faal lin, CNN, not Fallen. LOL Just the same, she was pretty impressive in front of the cameras. Bi-partisan state governor group meeting with President Obama today. Apparently.

...
Dang the biases. Show me the straightforward and real.

Hope you all have a nice day.
Quoting barbamz:
Waves sweep coastal village in Cebu
By Jhunnex Napallacan
Source: Inquirer Visayas

CEBU CITY—Big waves spawned by Typhoon “Pablo” on Tuesday night destroyed the sea wall and 17 houses and damaged seven government offices in Boljoon town, about 100 km south of this city.

The typhoon also displaced at least 300 persons — among them residents of the 17 houses that were washed out by big waves in the coastal village of Poblacion, Boljoon.

The others were residents who were forced to leave their homes in anticipation of the storm that placed southern Cebu under storm signal number 3 on Tuesday.

The evacuees were temporarily housed inside the church, private school and covered court in Sitio (subvillage) Talisay, Barangay (village) Poblacion.

Boljoon Municipal Planning Officer Engr. Corazon Medida said the surge of big waves occurred at 7:30 p.m. which lasted for at least 30 minutes. She added smaller waves continued at 10:30 p.m. Tuesday.

The big waves made some residents think that a tsunami had hit the town. A listener of radio station dyLA sent a text, asking if there was a tsunami alert because the town’s seawall had collapsed and some houses were washed out.

Medida said the seawall at the town’s baywalk was destroyed after its riprap collapsed.

The strong waves entered the different offices in the municipal hall, which is located near the sea, she added.

The back portion of the municipal hall was affected, including the offices of the social welfare, budget, treasurer, engineering, planning and civil registry as well as the police station.

Cebu Provincial Police Office director Patrocino Comendador said Boljoon policemen had to transfer to another area after seawater entered the police station.

Medida said some documents were damaged by water but they were able to save these since some personnel had reported for work.

But the 17 houses in Sitio Talisay were destroyed by the waves since these were made of light materials, said Medida.

She said most of the occupants failed to save their belongings.

One man, she added tried to get some of his belongings but was almost swept by the waves. Fortunately, the man was saved.



That's just awful.

You'd think that location would have had at least some protection due to the elevation of the other islands in the direction of the storm. To see reports of surge and wave action that bad in such a heavily protected location, compared to where the original landfall happened, is just unthinkable. The eye would have been low cat 3 to high cat 2 on it's closest approach there, and with it in a small strait, you'd think there wouldn't be room to build up such large surge and waves.
Meanwhile in Palau (islands visited first by Bopha) where damage assessment is still ongoing (or just starting):



Guam -Palau's Oceania TV is reporting that the village of Ngkeklau on the eastern coast of Palaus largest island, Babeldoab, was practically wiped out by the tidal surge of Typhoon Bopha.

According to the report, many of the villagers have lost their homes and the entire village is without power, water, and communications.

OCEANIA TV reports that high watermarks inside still standing structures indicates that the tidal surge may have been as high as 10 feet.

Detailed coverage

Quoting nymore:

Not at all but this is not about death (if it were why not talk about worse hurricanes to hit the USA in terms of death) this is about who is to blame for those deaths and who is to blame for the response.

As for the flooding- that would be the core of engineers for faults in the design of the levies. Some of which could not even take 50% of the pressure before failing. this happened in 4 cases, most other cases were caused by overtopping causing erosion and failure.

As for a lot of the deaths I would blame people for not leaving when warned to do so. The president, governor or mayor can not stop the storm.

As far as relief efforts I see no clean hands here. The problems did not start to get solved until Lieutenant General Russel Honore got there and started kicking some folks behinds.



Not their fault at all.

The Levee was designed to stop a category 3 storm surge, according to the old Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale.

Katrina's storm surge was off the scale, and was actually several feet higher than Camille's, which was a T-7.5, category 5 landfall (based on wind speed and pressure).

It's sort of like expecting a half-ton test rope to hold up a full ton. Maybe you get lucky and it does hold, but don't blame the manufacturer if it breaks and your truck falls on your head.
Hammond Temperatures so far today:


Actual Average (KMSY) Record (KMSY)
Mean Temperature 68 °F -
Max Temperature 75 °F 65 °F 80 °F (1998)
Min Temperature 62 °F 44 °F 30 °F (1974)

The overnight low was nearly equal to the average high, and he daily mean has already exceeded the average high.

Today's forecast is 79f, so we're going to make a run for the record, it seems.
Quoting RTSplayer:


That's just awful.

You'd think that location would have had at least some protection due to the elevation of the other islands in the direction of the storm. To see reports of surge and wave action that bad in such a heavily protected location, compared to where the original landfall happened, is just unthinkable. The eye would have been low cat 3 to high cat 2 on it's closest approach there, and with it in a small strait, you'd think there wouldn't be room to build up such large surge and waves.


Perhaps this exactly was the problem? Sort of pipe effect for the waves?
Quoting RTSplayer:


Not their fault at all.

The Levee was designed to stop a category 3 storm surge, according to the old Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale.

Katrina's storm surge was off the scale, and was actually several feet higher than Camille's, which was a T-7.5, category 5 landfall (based on wind speed and pressure).

It's sort of like expecting a half-ton test rope to hold up a full ton. Maybe you get lucky and it does hold, but don't blame the manufacturer if it breaks and your truck falls on your head.


I don't think it was the levees protecting from "ocean" storm surge that failed.. it was the levees around Pontchartrain.
JeffMasters has created a new entry.
So it was true after all ...

CDO police chief gets flak for breakfast priority

report from Primy Cane, ABS-CBN News Northern Mindanao
Posted at 12/04/2012 9:12 PM | Updated as of 12/04/2012 9:12 PM

CAGAYAN DE ORO, Philippines - The Cagayan de Oro (CDO) City police chief is receiving flak for making breakfast his top priority instead of helping people threatened by Typhoon Pablo leave for safer grounds.

Read more
Quoting nymore:

Not at all but this is not about death (if it were why not talk about worse hurricanes to hit the USA in terms of death) this is about who is to blame for those deaths and who is to blame for the response.

As for the flooding- that would be the core of engineers for faults in the design of the levies. Some of which could not even take 50% of the pressure before failing. this happened in 4 cases, most other cases were caused by overtopping causing erosion and failure.

As for a lot of the deaths I would blame people for not leaving when warned to do so. The president, governor or mayor can not stop the storm.

As far as relief efforts I see no clean hands here. The problems did not start to get solved until Lieutenant General Russel Honore got there and started kicking some folks behinds.

nymore....One death is too many, and if it is a friend or relative it makes a bigger impact wether it be 7 years or 37 years.
I will donate $1 to my local Caring & Sharing for every minute that Katrina isn't mentioned starting now...
Quoting indianrivguy:


I don't think it was the levees protecting from "ocean" storm surge that failed.. it was the levees around Pontchartrain.


Surge on Pontchartrain was over 18ft, and actually knocked parts of the Causeway off their pylons, if I remember correctly.

This is the old SS scale:





The 18ft or more was considered a category 5 storm surge, and the scale was originally intended to classify storms by an either/or system, which was never actually used, not just the winds.

I believe TWC played the video from Slidell area repeatedly with the guy who stayed behind and filmed it all from his house.
636. red0
Quoting RTSplayer:

Been expecting this for months.

I wonder how many railroad lanes will be required to replace the shipping traffic if the river dries up or stays too low for a prolonged time?

Economic damage could be some obscene number in the hundreds of billions or maybe even trillion per year if this was to get too dry and stay too dry for like a solid year or more.

It doesn't look impossible for the river to dry up for most or even all of a year, given the drought conditions and the already below average snowfall for this winter for all the tributary basins that feed the Mississippi River.

I wonder which governor or mayor or president we should blame for this disaster whereby so many farms and corporations have centralized their transports, relying too heavily on a river? I mean, it has got to be some elected officials fault, right?


So the government borrows some more money from itself (then quietly disappears the debt 20 years later) to finance a bunch of new railroads. Great an infrastructure project! Jobs!

Aquifers along the Mississippi haven't been doing well for years. Less water can't be good for the farms that rely on those aquifers.

Doesn't really matter who is at fault. It's a problem, and the government is the only entity that can do something about it if the river dries up.
626. barbamz~ That guy has what we refer to as a hurricane ball in his hand. Everyone here has pools..when the storms knock down the cages the beach balls get free. I'd bet some go for miles. In Jeanne & Frances I spotted several on the loose, flying down roads & even found a few after.