Fight the Amoral Fight

Thirds
Posted by: sp34n119w, 8:14 PM GMT on October 23, 2012 +1
So, in the last presidential election, I wrote a lot about third party candidates. I made no secret of the fact that I would vote for Nader/Gonzales that year, and I did. Nader isn't running this time around but I still have choices.

I have no illusions regarding the possibility of a third party candidate winning the Presidency. That will not happen. The idea is to change the current, dysfunctional, system that leaves so many of us without representation.

So, another reason to vote third party is simply to voice one's own personal views on the issues of the day, especially those which are not being properly addressed by the two major parties. The two parties are, if you have not noticed, virtually identical in every way – if not in their official platforms, then definitely in their actions. By voting for someone else, someone outside of the machine, one can send the message that there are citizens who are paying attention to that fact.

I realize that the media portrays third party voters in a very different light (if they mention us at all!). Third party voters and their candidates are … what? Immature, irresponsible, silly, unrealistic, spoilers, and really ought to be ignored except when some comic relief is needed. Well, that's what happens to those who buck the status quo, so, that's okay.

While third party candidates have no shot at the Presidency, they do sometimes have a chance to win races at the local and State level, and even House and Senate contests. These are important, too, as was noted in the comments of the last blog here and, particularly, in the video that calpoppy brought about ALEC and their work in State legislatures. It's also important because every win at these levels lends strength to that party and legitimacy to the whole idea of Thirds.

The Thirds are more likely to address the issues that affect the average citizen day-to-day, and they are willing and able to talk about real problems and real solutions because, frankly, they've got nothing to lose by doing so. Now, they don't agree on what the solutions are, obviously, but at least they are often willing to consider working on them.
Even if they don't get elected, by raising these issues they can bring them into the public consciousness and, sometimes, force those who are elected to face those issues, themselves.

The current voting system supports a two-party political system. It is bound to push all candidates towards one or another extreme position as they compete for the same voters. Right now, all candidates skew far Right but, 50-70 years ago, all candidates skewed Left (read Nixon's positions on just about everything and shudder at the realization that Obama is far Right of that). We can get a pretty good balance going for awhile, so that it looks like a real choice, but it will always swing again. These swings necessarily disenfranchise large blocks of citizens.
We can talk more about this in the comments. In the meantime, have a look at RangeVoting.org and see what you think about that voting system.

Nationally, the largest thirds are Libertarian, Constitution, and Green. Each of them have fielded candidates for President and each has had some success at local and State levels over the years. They don't get a lot of attention.

As of 2008, here in California (the media's poster child for Liberalism), the Constitution Party had more than twice the membership of the Green Party. Add in the Libertarians and it becomes clear why we so often elect Republican Governors and House Reps. Californians are quite conservative, politically, but very divided in that conservatism. What about your State?

More references:
Wikipedia's entry on U.S. Political parties.
The census bureau's copious election and affiliation statistics.

I expect some randomness to creep (or barge) into the comments (as usual and much appreciated) but feel free to discuss the OP or your own political topics, too. I'd be happy to hear about State races and about any interesting referendums or propositions, if you've got something to say and need a place to say it. Probably I'll say my piece about one or more propositions on the Cali ballot, myself.
It's almost over, friends!

…..

Seditious Swirls:



For the bigger picture, have a look at the NE Pac WVloop.

Clashing Clouds :



Rebellious Rain:


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1. sp34n119w 8:17 PM GMT on October 23, 2012    
Last blog comment replies:
Hi Ylee! Mt Wilson cam does show great color, when there is color to show. Wait until it snows! Snowy pines with that blue sky is a lovely sight :)

Quoting LowerCal:


There was an interval during the debate yesterday evening where Romney looked like HE wanted to vote for Obama, lol.

Random entertainment for those who like quizzes
World's Smallest Political Quiz


I have only seen the first half hour or so of the debate (had to go out and about in the world) but it seemed like Romney was just repeating everything Obama said! Can't blame him, really, as Obama has been doing what most people think he ought, so that is the position to take.
Nifty quiz! Easy and definitely quick.
I was shocked – shocked, I tell you! - to find myself categorized as a Liberal. Okay, “shocked” may be too strong a word ;)

…..

Oooo, look at that big swirly about to whack Vancouver. Very wintry.
It's cold here (for some values of “cold”, anyway) and there was a rain-like moment last evening and I'm looking forward to the promised warm-up later in the week.
[thought I oughta put something weather related in here somewhere ;)]
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2. LowerCal 9:02 PM GMT on October 23, 2012    
I was shocked to find myself along the outer edge and on the borderline between liberal and libertarian! ;^)
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3. Ylee 10:11 PM GMT on October 23, 2012    
Aaack! I'm a liberal! In Kentucky! (Better buy me a gun rack for my truck; better not have Bubba next door suspecting somethin'!) :)

I was surprised that the Glitchamatic(my work computer) could play the Alec video, but it did! Good stuff; only time will tell if the People can force legislations to call 1+1=2, and make ALEC a lobbying outfit, and adhere to the laws therein!

Range voting is also intriguing; sort of like product ratings at Amazon! :)

Seditious swirls, eh? :)
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4. WatchinTheSky 10:14 PM GMT on October 23, 2012    
A promised warmup for you is Fire Weather Watch for us.. well as long as there is no fire - I like Santa Anas.
Aack and shocked! Another tally in the liberal column. Curious to see how this adds up. Can't just be the sea breeze, since Ylee is in the same boat (transplant?)!
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5. sp34n119w 11:52 PM GMT on October 23, 2012    
Thanks for the heads up, WTS! I hadn't bothered with reading the discussion and was just pleased to see the higher temps in the forecast. Seems we are all under the gun so SoCalians should check their own region's forecast.
Here's part of mine - also LowerCal's and calpoppy's:

"The gusty northerly winds will help to prime the already dry fuels
across the region. Winds are expected to shift to the northeast by
Thursday night...with the strongest and most widespread Santa Ana
wind event expected so far this season. Fire weather watches have
already been posted for much of Ventura and Los Angeles counties from
Thursday night through Friday evening. The strongest winds will
likely occur late Thursday night through Friday in the mountains of
Los Angeles and Ventura counties...when gusts in the 50 to 60 miles per hour
range will be possible. However...offshore winds gusting to between
40 and 50 miles per hour can be expected across coastal and valley areas as
well. Humidity levels will generally range between 10 and 20 percent
from Thursday night through early Friday morning...then lower to
between 5 and 10 percent across much of the watch area Friday
afternoon into Friday evening. If fire ignition occurs...this Santa
Ana wind event will have the potential to bring rapid spread of
wildfire due to critical fire weather conditions and critically dry
fuels. "

You know, that sounds a little scary. Let's hope we can enjoy the dry heat without the smoke this time around, hm?

Ylee - have you any hills to run to, should you be found out? LOL
According to that one link up there, Kentucky has more registered Dem than Rep so maybe you all need to get together more often! Chat, have a coffee, do some community organizing ;)

Glad you got to see the ALEC video. Everyone should. It isn't the only thing but it is a good indicator of what's going on around here.

LC - there are so few questions that I can guess which one landed me at the edge but further left, I guess. 90/30
I have definitely been pushed there.

.....

Linkies:

Why we vote on Tuesdays.

Good resource about voting procedures - with links to State info.


Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
6. LowerCal 12:38 AM GMT on October 24, 2012    
sp, yep 100/50 here. I've been pushed left also. I refrain from totally agreeing with some insincere assertions that faux libertarians (plutocracy shills) like to repeat.

Range voting seems like a great idea. It might be a step too far for the immediate future though. I'd settle for one additional choice of "None of the Above".

Here are four decisions on the California ballot I want to share my opinion on:

1) I have a folder full of equivocal or condescending and paternalistic replies from Sen. Feinstein to my emails. I look forward to moving it all to Trash someday. Unfortunately Californians don't get a third choice in the non-Presidential partisan races since the new top-two primary system went into effect. I've examined the Republican challenger's statements and the polls. I'll vote for the Republican but only because she won't win. :^/

2) I've got more leeway in the Presidential race. The Libertarian Party candidates are on the ballot. Liberals will be interested to know that the Justice Party's Rocky Anderson is a qualified write-in candidate (request the list from your pollworker). If you want to see what all the "Thirds" have to say check out Third Party Debate: Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Virgil Good and Rocky Anderson Face Off on the Real Issues at 6PM PDT today.

3) The anti Prop. 37 ads made me think twice... so I read the actual proposition. Monsanto has put $7.1 million into making Prop. 37 seem complicated, cumbersome and onerous but it's actually simple at a relatively insignificant cost and damit, I got a right to know what I'm eating, lol!

4) Finally, moral or not the death penalty is a huge economic burden for taxpayers.


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7. GardenGrrl 7:08 PM GMT on October 24, 2012    
Here's a really good and little known German rockabilly band called the Free Bears. Could almost be a political anthem.



So voting for the third party. If regular people could organize as well as crazy people (see teabaggers), we could take back America from the bottom up with write in candidates.
Sadly, I registered republican to vote in the primaries. Texas is a rabidly republican state. I wanted to vote for the least extreme congressional person to run this year.

For this years presidential election we have a choice of two very similar candidates. Obama is the lessor of the evils and better for middle America than Romney in my belief. He is a better candidate for personel freedom than Romney.

It amazes me that the republicans have done such a great snow job on working people that they are against big government in our lives and legislating against personal freedom. Their platform is all about regulating peoples freedom. Duh.

The big parties do not care if you vote third party protests votes in the presidential elections. They consider you non-voters and insignificant. Only in the smaller local elections does this type of voting matter...if there are numbers and especially if the non-institutional candidate wins.

This election could change our Supreme Court if an opening comes up in the next four years. Which party would you prefer to stack the court?
On that note I urge you all to protest vote for the smaller offices if you don't like your mainstream choices. For the President and Supreme Court I strongly urge you to vote for Obama.

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8. LowerCal 6:14 PM GMT on October 25, 2012    
GG, I understand the calculation in your registering Republican for the primary. In the past I've changed my party affiliation to vote against a worst or for a least worst as well as for a best possible.

Your point about the Supreme Court is well taken. We likely wouldn't be facing the consequences of the bizarre "Citizens United" decision if it weren't for G.W. Bush nominees. Currently for the general election in California Romney is well behind. If that should change I could vote against him rather than for who I most agree with.

I respectfully disagree that, "The big parties do not care if you vote third party protests votes in the presidential elections. They consider you non-voters and insignificant." After the 2000 election the Democratic Party whined as if Nader votes were their stolen property.

(As an aside I think the real reasons for the Democratic Party's defeat in the 2000 presidential race were: the Democrat's weak campaign; G.W. Bush's deceptions about his concern for global warming, environmental quality and other issues; the premature TV network projections of a Gore victory in Florida; the Florida Secretary of State and the U.S. Supreme Court. Link)
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9. LowerCal 6:54 PM GMT on October 25, 2012    
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10. LowerCal 7:16 PM GMT on October 25, 2012    
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11. sp34n119w 10:43 PM GMT on October 25, 2012    
Only about 60% of U.S. Citizens who are eligible to vote are registered to vote. Only about 50% of eligible voters actually vote in a presidential election year (usually less than 40% in an “off” year) (just read today that, in San Diego county in this year's Primary, 27.8% of registered voters showed up). Of the registered voters, the majority are registered as Democrats, nationwide, and even in some of the States that can be counted on to vote for a Republican presidential candidate. What's more, when well-done national polls are conducted to determine citizens' preference on the issues, the clear majority express views that are right in line with my own Liberal opinion. Yet, we have an extremely conservative government that ignores many important issues while implementing or continuing policies that are contrary to what those polls indicate our citizens would prefer.

What this means is that we no longer have a government that represents its people. That is not the fault of the politicians. That is our fault. The people abdicate their right to a representative government when they abdicate their responsibility to participate in government.

More than that, when they do show up, they don't vote their own conscience. I have Republican friends who think we should have a single-payer option in health care; who think same-sex marriage is a non-issue; who believe women are autonomous persons with the right to determine what happens to their bodies and that government cannot make those determinations for them; who would like to see the money currently being spent on the endless war machine instead being spent on rebuilding our own infrastructure; who would shift fossil fuel subsidies over to renewable R&D; who think regulations should protect American interests, American jobs, and our environment, rather than protecting corporations' ability to undermine those things for the sake of profit for a few … well, you get the idea. They are right in line with the national polls on these issues and more.

When it comes time to vote, however, they will vote for Romney/Ryan. Here, locally, they will vote for a House Rep who stands steadfast against all of that mentioned above and who will happily vote his party's line while supposedly representing me and my neighbors.

Why do folks vote against their own interests? I don't know. Maybe they don't understand. I think there is some tribalism there, for sure. They like their labels. I saw a T-Shirt in a picture from a Republican rally that read, “Put the White Back in the White House”, and I think that has a lot to do with those unmoving poll numbers. We like to think that racism (not to mention sexism) is a thing of the past, but, pretending does not make it so. The problem such folk have with Obama has nothing to do with him as a president or as a person – they don't even consider those factors – they just don't like seeing a black man with a decent job. It messes with their worldview.
I know. We aren't supposed to talk about that. Ssshhhh. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, dontcha know.

A quote attributed to John Steinbeck (but probably a rephrasing of something he wrote/said):
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

Be right back ...
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12. sp34n119w 10:48 PM GMT on October 25, 2012    
... with the importanter stuff.

LC - it might take me awhile yet to get around to writing coherently about the Props (if I ever do, lol). So, thanks for bringing your thoughts here.
Oh, except the death penalty one - too expensive, doesn't work to deter, and, yes, is inhumane and uncivilized even when properly implemented, which it too often is not. So, that's gotta go and I'm glad to see it put before voters. Again, lol
Appreciate the info on the Thirds, the debate (I read a partial transcript, somewhere, but haven't watched the thing), and the fact-check link. They seem a lively group this time around, don't they?
I got some emails from Rocky but see he isn't on the ballot. Do we get write-ins? I should probably know that.

gg - wow, German rockabilly! Not bad :)

So, as LC kind of pointed out, you can't have it both ways. Either third party voters are considered insignificant, as you said at one point, or they are capable of wrecking an election, as you imply with your reasoning in urging people to vote for Obama for the sake of the Supreme Court.

Ross Perot, lo these many years ago, both times he ran, garnered far more votes nationwide than any other third party candidate, ever. Did it change the election results? Maybe. Gore lost his election but, as LC noted, some still blame Nader voters. As long as there are third party candidates they have the chance to make a difference - if not by electing their candidates, then at least in people's minds.

Back to your point about the Supreme Court appointments. I agree that that is a very important consideration and wouldn't blame anyone for voting for Obama (or against, you do realize) on that basis. Here's the thing: when will it not be very important? When will there be an election where everyone can vote their conscience without worrying about throwing the election to the greater of two evils? Can you imagine such a time? I cannot. There is always "too much at stake" to mess with the status quo, almost by definition, and if that's so, how will it ever change?
Will there be a day when the Republicans and Democrats will decide amongst themselves that it is now time to open up the process to other parties? Why on Earth would they do that?

That said, if I lived in Ohio or some other swing state, I would (probably) (try to) find a way to make myself vote for Obama. "The lesser of two evils", indeed.

.....

When this is over I'd like to go back to knitting and science posts. Okay?
Well, I'll break soon and throw some of that in here, anyway ;)

Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
13. LowerCal 1:26 AM GMT on October 26, 2012    
Quoting sp34n119w:
.... I got some emails from Rocky but see he isn't on the ballot. Do we get write-ins? I should probably know that.
....
Yes, you should, lol. ;^)
Quoting LowerCal:
....
2) .... Liberals will be interested to know that the Justice Party's Rocky Anderson is a qualified write-in candidate (request the list from your pollworker). ....
Write-in voting instructions are on page 2 of a Santa Paula ballot.

"To vote for a qualified write-in candidate, write the person’s name on the blank line provided and complete the arrow.
IMPORTANT: USE BALL POINT PEN BLUE OR BLACK INK ONLY. DO NOT USE FELT TIP OR GEL INK.
"
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14. sp34n119w 7:16 PM GMT on October 26, 2012    
Hey! The wind showed up! Late last night, in fact, reminding me in a most inconvenient manner that I forgot to trim that one branch on the tangerine tree, so that it sounds like I've got a lazy zombie trying to get through the wall. Dude, we have a door, you know.

No major fire so far as I've seen, so, that's good.
Drink lots of water and don't play with hot stuff today, please.
80 degrees, 17% humidity, 20/41mph wind.

LC - LOL In my own defense, I spent the day alternating between (well, work, but we won't count that) writing my comments here and reading too much elsewhere about how and why women are not persons. Actually saw one comment that explicitly stated that businesses, and specifically financial institutions, should have no government oversight or regulation, while each individual woman should be regularly investigated and monitored by the government to ensure proper reproductive activity (by somebody's definition, although, clearly, definitely, not the individual woman's). IOW, corporations are free people, but, women are resources to be managed. It kind of messed with my thinking apparatus trying to understand all that.

Anyway, thanks for keeping us all informed!

Also, separately, I'm chuffed that my comment in your blog made the title :)

.....

Think I'll avoid politics today, as much as possible. Not much work to do, which is nice as I can play. Watching Sandy and that front for folks back there. Want to get a swatch done so I can wash it and see how it comes out. Need to water the balcony plants but couldn't yesterday because an orb spider had made a web across the slider door and I didn't want to disturb her but think it's blown away now. Will pick up the palm frond bombs at some point to clear the driveway. Oh, and must get to the tangerine branch before it wears a hole in the wall ... LOL

seewu!
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15. WatchinTheSky 8:48 PM GMT on October 26, 2012    
So you got the fierce winds, too? It's still howling between 5 and 10 mph here ;) and not hot, but that's fine, too.
No zombies at the side of the house.
I know you are not picking on me when pointing out dismal San Diego county numbers! I will have to say, it gets hard to vote (more and more lately) without the aid of range voting or at least being able to add comments (you jerk! or Are you kidding me!) And I get more than a little POed about hearing the national results called before Cali votes are in the box.
But I have long ago signed on to "If you don't vote, Don't complain". So I can complain if I want :)
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16. Ylee 9:58 PM GMT on October 26, 2012    
80F. ? Trade ya! :)
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17. sp34n119w 8:10 PM GMT on October 27, 2012    
Weather: wind died down yesterday evening and had picked up again by late morning today. Not as bad. Warmer today. Lower humidity. Haven't checked on fires but see no smoke.
90 degrees. 10% humidity. 18/32 mph.

.....

WTS - ha! Kind of funny that you brought the fire weather to my attention and then missed it! Very glad you did :)
I know what you mean about voting. It's hard to get excited about it when the choices offer not much choice at all. Still, as you say, it must be done. So we can whine about it ;)
And of course I'm not picking on you! It was the only such statistic in the article I read, LOL I'm sure the rest of us aren't any better, on average.

Ylee - NO!!!!
heehee ;)

.....

I wonder if anyone has mentioned on Masters' blog that today would be a could day for folks in the NE to vote early, if they have that option, since power might still be out come election day. Even if the power is on, folk might have more immediate concerns on that day and miss the opportunity to vote.
I think Maryland begins early voting today.

A satirical look at the GOP in the closing days from the New Yorker.

Now that the comments are closed, I thought I'd link Scalzi's letter to Conservatives from the other day. The first couple dozen comments (all that I've read) make points that Scalzi didn't get to. He has a trigger warning at the top which should be well noted.

Texas health insurance can now legally refuse to pay for ANY services at Planned Parenthood (Even though taxpayer money never funds abortions, Texas does not want taxpayer money going to clinics that perform abortions). That will take away so much revenue that they will have to close clinics. That will leave untold thousands of women and children and men without access to basic health care. And cause more of a glut at other clinics, thus limiting everyone's care. Hurray, Texas.

Malala is doing very well, if you haven't heard. Doctors are cautiously optimistic that she managed to avoid any permanent brain damage.


.....

Edit to add (because I know you care, lol): I did get the lazy zombie to stop knocking on my wall.
Also, I am reminded that I am getting old.
These two things are related, LOL
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18. WatchinTheSky 5:55 PM GMT on October 28, 2012    
That is an insightful comment regards early voting in NorthEast. We have been watchin ;) a fair amount of Weather channel (since there is no real weather here now) and not once have they mentioned that as part of prep for days ahead in their storm coverage.

Interesting to watch Mayor Bloomberg go from no evac Saturday to some evacs Sunday. 'No Thanks', don't need help, we have an excellent response organization. Yeah, maybe, but why not be a little protective instead of just reactive to aftermath?

Are we sure that is a satirical look? ;)

Sometimes I make a list, which politician is telling me the biggest Lie. Even if I tend to agree with some (or even more) of their 'platform', they end up on my 'No' list. Of course now with Citizens United and Super Pacs, it becomes harder to determine who is lying. But, a candidate does not HAVE to take or condone Super Pac money or ads.
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19. calpoppy 8:48 PM GMT on October 28, 2012    
Random thoughts on the election and some things I have learned from the book The Righteous Mind.

Interesting article in Harpers about who owns the voting machines, not Democrats!!!



How funny Mitt is, in declaring how he will be able to reach across the aisle unlike Obama when Grover Norquist has the Rep congress and senate hog tied. You will not raise taxes and you will not cooperate with Obama or you will not be here next election. I guess they have very little independent thought in the Republican party!!!!

On the book I am reading, group-mindedness seems to affect the conservatives more then the liberal mind. Conservatives score low on caring and fairness, liberals score low on loyalty, authority and sanctity.

On dog breeds, liberals like dogs who are gentle, and relate to the owner as an equal. Conservatives look for a breed that is obedient, easily trained, loyal and doesn't warm up to strangers. Both lib and conservatives liked clean animals, LOL!

What I found interesting is how the author claims that the reason Democrats don't do well in Presidential elections is that they are basically only talking to caring and fairness and not to authority, loyalty and sanctity. If they could talk to all of the above they would certainly be able to communicate better with all Americans.

Random crazies. There is a lady in the town that I work in who drives a full sized bright red pick-up with two huge American flags on both sides of the tail gate, a huge Mitt sign on the tail gate along with many other Mitt signs on her truck. As she drove by a customer (who is a conservative) said she is one committed lady but maybe she is a bit over the top. I replied, yes, she should be committed and yes she is over the top and headed toward bottom. We both laughed about it :)

I really like the idea of a third party, a viable third party. Thomas Freidman has talked about it for awhile. It is possible that the third party would be what brings us back to Democracy!!!

Have a good week, SP! Enjoy your weather!!!



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20. calpoppy 8:52 PM GMT on October 28, 2012    
Here is the link to the voting machine article, just an excerpt though.

Link
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21. Ylee 5:37 AM GMT on October 29, 2012    
Quoting calpoppy:
On dog breeds, liberals like dogs who are gentle, and relate to the owner as an equal.


Like most cats? :)

Actually I'm wrong; most cats think they are superior to humans, lol!
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22. GardenGrrl 10:09 AM GMT on October 31, 2012    
Happy Halloween from Taz...because politics is scary enough...

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23. Bogon 4:37 PM GMT on October 31, 2012    
Happy Halloween, sp!

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24. WatchinTheSky 6:39 PM GMT on October 31, 2012    
It's not evening yet but, Black cats!
Oh, and Happy Halloween!
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25. Ylee 10:29 PM GMT on October 31, 2012    
Happy Halloween, SP!

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26. sp34n119w 7:21 AM GMT on November 01, 2012    
OH! Thanks for the Halloween wishes gg, Bogon, WTS and Ylee! Hope everywun had a spooooooky good time :)
Was there a wu party this year? Things seem a bit subdued. Understandably, I suppose.
I'll be back tomorrow or Friday. I think.

Came in to drop a bit of pretty.
Posting this one for the first 2:30 but if you listen/watch for all nine minutes you will see what happens ...
When Gypsy Goes Mainstream!!!


or, at least, that's the title that was running through my mind while I watched ;)
Sound isn't great but everyone knows the tune so it isn't too bad. Fun to watch.

seewu!
Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
27. Ylee 8:21 PM GMT on November 03, 2012    
This year's WU Halloween was flatter than well, a pancake, although another description, which I can't say here, would be more apt!

A three day old open can of soda would work, too! :)

I guess Sandy sucked the party spirit out of this bunch of weather nerds! :( Oh well, maybe next year!
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28. SBKaren 12:42 AM GMT on November 05, 2012    
Since my absentee ballot was mailed last week, I'm going to try very hard not to listen to anything political. That will be hard if we have the TV on for any length of time.

I opened my blog with pictures and a couple of videos of our trip to the SD Zoo Safari Park. Drop by when you have a moment.

It's too hot again. I was just getting into making warm meals for dinner, and even looking forward to some favorite tasty one pot meals, but it's back to salads for dinner. Some day soon I know I'll be able to pull that frozen soup out of the freezer and have it taste good!!!
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29. Barefootontherocks 3:14 AM GMT on November 05, 2012    
Haha. What Bogon posted. Now that's the way to party on Halloween.

Pretty much talked out about the storm and politics was not my subject ever, so I'll just say thanks for the thoughtful words you left in my blog. Oh, one of the Gypsy violinists looks like Benjamin Franklin. Maybe it's a sign.
:)

Ps. Still violin vid on and enjoying it.
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30. sp34n119w 7:47 PM GMT on November 05, 2012    
I've been a bit under the weather (so to speak) and without the energy to follow up on my promise (threat?) to write more about the election and the various choices we have. Instead, I have spent my down time in mindless recreation - like a few hours of gypsy music on youtube one night, a few hours catching up on knitting blogs the next, various other random distractions as needed, and reading an excellent sf novel (which wasn't so mindless, being a bit on the hard sf side of things). Also did some virtual window shopping for a new phone and found that, after three years of consideration, some of the models I was interested in are no longer available. Hmph. They could have waited for me to make up my mind. I don't know why I can't make up my mind. I guess I just don't care that much, lol.

So, tomorrow is election day and about all I have to say about that is 1)if you haven't voted already, please VOTE, and 2)I'm so glad it will be over.

Do all of you read SoNoToTea's blog? I don't get over there very often but when I do I am amazed and pleased to see the info links that unclemush leaves there. Since sntt changes out the blog with fair regularity, I'm sure I've missed many of those links. I kept meaning to mention it since the info in those links are good ammo for real-life discussions that might come up, but I guess I figured you all were reading there and I never got around to it. Anyway, kudos to mush and sntt.

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WTS - hope you got through the rest of the ballot. I haven't! There are a few props yet to investigate before I go to the polls tomorrow.
Haven't checked your weather today but if it's anything like here, well, hang in there and good fire luck to you - and all of us.

calpoppy - wish I had something more thoughtful to write but, in the absence of that, I'll leave you an article by Steven Pinker about Red States and Blue States that mentions Haidt's work (positively) and is relevant to your comment.
What does the book say about people who like goats? ;)

Ylee - too bad about the lack of wu party. Maybe next year. I think much of the old party crowd spends much more time on FB, these days. So it goes.
Did you take your kids trick-or-treating?

Karen - it is hard to avoid the political stuff. Let's just hope that, whatever the outcome, it is fairly settled by Wednesday so we can be done with the craziness. Well, one form of it anyway.
I did take a quick look at your lovely pics and will be back to savor. Thanks for posting them and I'm glad to see you hanging on wu :)
Yep. Hot again. Not for long, though - go for a swim!

bf - no doubt, Bogon knows how to enjoy life. I'm thinking I need some of those glasses for everyday use :)
So glad you liked (and commented on) the gypsy vid! I was thinking nobody would bother, lol
I went off on a youtube trek listening specifically to three guys (who often play together) - Buffó Rigó Sándor, Lendvai Csócsi József, and Oszkár Ökrös - and really enjoyed it. The first is the man with the grey beard in the vid and, in addition to his fiddle skills, he has a good voice for folk songs. The second is the dark haired, craggy-faced guy (is that who looks like Ben to you?). The third is not in that vid but I saw him at Disney Hall with the LA Phil some years ago and he is a virtuoso cimbalom player.
I won't post any more, though. Today ;)

Thank you for your blogs on Sandy. Your writing was insightful and garnered excellent comments from many.

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Browncoats Unite!
Any out there? Did you know that the Firefly tenth anniversary special is coming up on Sunday? Well, now you do!

Think I'll save other random links for after-election blogging.

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Hot. Dry. Windy. WOOHOO!!!
94 degrees 12% humidity 14/28 mph wind
Priceless ;)

.....

Oh, okay, one more thing - The GOP's closing argument: "We’re strongly opposed to FEMA and health care, but basically O.K. with rape."
which is being tweeted all over the place, lol

see wu!
Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
31. weatheringpoints 2:11 AM GMT on November 06, 2012    
Hi sp :)
Here's a link to the Final Third Party U.S. Presidential Debate LIVE
(in progress) 9PM to 10:30PM EST
http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

Edit to add link to Youtube:
Third-Party presidential debate: Gary Johnson vs Jill Stein
Member Since: February 26, 2008 Posts: 11 Comments: 1933
32. WatchinTheSky 5:42 PM GMT on November 06, 2012    
Hot Dry Not so windy Woohoo! Never really got windy here, but 95 Monday Yay ;) Now just waiting for Friday's snow!!

Oh GOP, your the greatest (The GOP's closing argument), but greatest what?

Finished the ballot Monday night, whew. Voting is almost done, a bit of counting, and Romney/Biden can get to work!! lol

Must see TV on this Sunday!! Thanks for the heads up :)
Hope you are feeling better!
Member Since: September 20, 2005 Posts: 116 Comments: 852
33. sp34n119w 8:39 PM GMT on November 06, 2012    
Quoting weatheringpoints:
Hi sp :)

Third-Party presidential debate: Gary Johnson vs Jill Stein


Hi WP! Thanks so much for that! I missed the live feed but watched the youtube late last night. It just feels good to know that someone cares about what I care about, you know? Even if they won't be heard by most.
Gary Johnson is always a hoot and a half. Can't fault his level of enthusiasm!

WTS - not so warm or so windy today. Just about perfect, actually! I need to get out and soak it up because, yes, cold is coming :( Well, snow on the mountains is pretty, and I will try to appreciate it, lol

A day of (ex-)Browncoats vs. Alliance will be a welcome change of politics!

Romney/Biden, LOL Is that why we haven't seen much of Ryan the past couple weeks?

I also made my final choices last night but still have to get to the polls today. I like voting in person but sort of envy those of you who have ballots to fill out at home. Might make the switch for next time. I do so want that sticker though ... ;)

.....

Tonight or tomorrow I'll post (for those who don't want to follow the link) the text from a letter written by Rocky Anderson that sums up why I cannot vote for a candidate from either major party for President.


>
Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
34. sp34n119w 9:01 PM GMT on November 06, 2012    
Oh I forgot! calpoppy left us a link about voting machines the other day. This is one thing that is happening:



Go read the description to understand what's going on there.

Perhaps the U.S. now needs a United Nations elections oversight delegation.
Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
35. WatchinTheSky 11:07 PM GMT on November 06, 2012    
Hi sp, just a note - you still get the sticker when dropping off the ballot!!
Now off to follow links.

Rocky seems a little angry.. But what annoys me and seems a quandary - if someone from our current 2 party system can't move an agenda forward because of the other party stonewalling/filibustering, how can a 3rd party leader (pres) ever hope to get anything done? A bit like an odd line from a local rep race 1st time candidate saying - vote for me because I say no pay for congress if we don't pass a budget. That is well and fine but how is he ever going to do anything about that??? As a freshman in congress?? Now I am just deflated and sad :( crap..
Member Since: September 20, 2005 Posts: 116 Comments: 852
36. Bogon 1:14 PM GMT on November 07, 2012    
Breathing a sigh of relief this morning. It's over.

Quoting sp34n119w:

The two parties are, if you have not noticed, virtually identical in every way – if not in their official platforms, then definitely in their actions. By voting for someone else, someone outside of the machine, one can send the message that there are citizens who are paying attention to that fact.


Why let them know? I think we ought to sneak up on 'em.
Member Since: June 26, 2008 Posts: 73 Comments: 2790
37. GardenGrrl 2:53 PM GMT on November 07, 2012    
Hey Bogon, do you think "The Donald" will fund us to storm congress?

The fact that so many people have been saying "Fire Congress" but re-elected the same bandits makes me wonder if the fix was in. The alternative thought that perhaps millions of Americans are so stupid to complain and vote the same is even more frightening.
Member Since: March 25, 2007 Posts: 220 Comments: 7364
38. Bogon 4:23 PM GMT on November 07, 2012    
Trump has been complaining about the election process. Maybe he could be persuaded to support the Range Voting group that sp linked. I noticed that CRV also offered impartial solutions to the widespread problem of gerrymandering.

Speaking for myself, I'm sure I would be a much more highly motivated voter, if we could adopt a better method for assessing the will of the electorate.

Meanwhile today's Non Sequitur says it all.
Member Since: June 26, 2008 Posts: 73 Comments: 2790
39. sp34n119w 10:46 PM GMT on November 07, 2012    
See? Told you that voting third party wouldn't hurt anything ;)
Actually, last night I saw a brief mention of a Republican loss (Senate, I think) that may have been due to Libertarian voters. Libertarians are the largest Third and make their voices heard in many contests.

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WTS - sorry :(
It isn't that a third party prez would be able to break the gridlock (though they might - no party loyalty so everyone could work with the prez and still save face). Nobody expects the third party candidate to win that office, anyway. The idea is to bring forward important issues that are being ignored and try to get politicians to address those issues by riling up the voters.

Of course Rocky is angry. So am I. Much of the Bill of Rights has been shredded. Families are starving in the streets of the richest country in the world. Greed rules our economy, unchecked by any notion of the common good or the future of our nation and its people. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been killed in my name but without my consent and in conflict with the law of the land. We have everything we need to be the finest example of civilization the world has ever known but instead of using our power to provide sustenance and succor we use it to sow death and discord around the world and here at home.

Nobody must be angry about that but I think it's okay to be. I also think we can be angry about those things while still being joyful about what good there is in the world. It is not an either/or thing - we can enjoy what is good while acknowledging what is not good and working to make the world better.

I do think, if you need a bit of bright-siding, that the election yesterday is a reaffirmation of what the electorate can do. Demographics have shifted and, more importantly, folks who have historically been disenfranchised or disaffected are realizing that their votes really do count. Also, we have a whole generation+ who grew up with a global (less provincial) view of the issues of the day, thanks to international television and, of course, the internet. This should, in theory, lead to a better, more just, more tolerant, less violent world. The Thirds potentially provide organizing bodies that address the concerns that the Dems and Reps will not - if the new voters can find the Thirds, they will find a political home.

Where did this soapbox come from? I could've sworn I shoved that thing to the back of the closet the other day ...

Oh, and, I did get my sticker and I know that if you drop off a mail-in ballot they'll give you a sticker. I took my mom to drop hers off yesterday but had to ask for her sticker. But if it is mailed in - no sticker :( They should include one in with the ballots!

Bogon - how do we sneak up on the sneakiest of the sneaks?! lol
Best to hit 'em head on!

Wiley has been taking a lot of shots, lately. I always did like that strip :)

gg - better the devil you know then the devil you don't? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe what we hear some people saying out loud is not what most people are saying to themselves.

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I waited in line longer than I ever have to vote in SP. Looks like there was a good turnout this time. Poll workers usually tell me the numbers go up and down through the day but yesterday they were wiped out by a constant stream. We had two city council seats up but also a local measure that probably brought folks out. Nice :)

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When I went to bed last night it looked like Jerry's new tax was going to lose and that I would be stuck with a Republican Representative, still. This morning I find that the tax passed and there's a new Democrat in the House. What a difference real numbers make.
Speaking of, xkcd makes another point about numbers. He, too, had been taking some well-aimed shots at American politics and, specifically, the way it is "reported". Go back several panels and see.

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If you can stand a bit more on the current state of Civil Liberties, Ed Brayton comments on (and links to) an article in the Guardian. I haven't read the full article, yet, but it does seem to give some perspective.

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Yes, I'm relieved it's over, too. Also, I am relieved that Obama won. I'm not stupid. The President is not the problem here, though. We are.
Whatev. I need a break :)

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She may not be Roxie-level cute but Sutter did her job well:
>
Let's hope it works.

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Anything else we want to say about the election? Besides, "hooray its over can i have my mailbox and telephone back now please thankyouthankyouthankyou"?
Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
40. Bogon 3:03 AM GMT on November 08, 2012    
For what it's worth, I wasn't necessarily recommending being sneaky as a practical course of action. I'm saying that the sneaks deserve to be snuck up on.

For advice on practical politics I'm probably not the best guy to ask. You might do better to consult e. g. Machiavelli.
Member Since: June 26, 2008 Posts: 73 Comments: 2790
41. calpoppy 11:30 PM GMT on November 08, 2012    
I commented on another blog that one day the guy or gal with the most money will gain the presidency, we can all just sit back and wait to see who shells out the most cash. My cynical view. Lol!

Knitting, I am done with my merino sheep scarf and I really love it. Had to make it a little narrower and shorter because of not enough yarn. Plus I used a size 14 needle. I'll get you a pic it is really different, almost done with the alpaca scarf. My next will be a moss stitch scarf.

Any rain for you, we have clouds and cool temps but no wet stuff yet.
Member Since: February 18, 2008 Posts: 34 Comments: 2495
42. SBKaren 2:27 AM GMT on November 09, 2012    
Hey sp,

I'm happy that prop 30 passed. We have to do something for our students, Remember, we are educating the next leaders of our country!!!

We received an email from our top administrator that we don't have to look forward to furlough days now. We had them chosen and in place if prop 30 didn't pass. We were going to take 6 between now and June. Two would have been staff development days, 4 were going to shorten the school year. Whew!

We had rain!!
Member Since: February 21, 2005 Posts: 192 Comments: 14233
43. sp34n119w 9:40 PM GMT on November 09, 2012    
Hiya! We got a little rain yesterday and it's supposed to be raining today but it is not. It is sunny. Also, cold :(
Meant to warm up in a few days.

Bogon - darn. Thought you had a plan ;)
I'll leave Machiavelli to those with more devious minds than mine, LOL

calpoppy - IS IT SNOWING YET?!?!
They said north side was the sweet side for this one, so, there is hope. Nothing on the Mt Wilson cam but maybe tonight, huh? My overnight forecast is for brrrrr!

From what I've seen so far, analysts are saying that money made very little difference. On one of the MSNBC shows last night they talked about Rove's strategy and how bad it was - and how much it cost.

Hurray for finished knitting! Wish I could say that, lol
Can't wait to see a pic of how that lovely yarn worked up :)
I like moss stitch - easy but interesting. I'm about to start a project that isn't getting started because I need to plan it and can't decide and moss stitch is on the table.

Karen - glad you got some rain, too! It's a nice change :)

Yep, I heard that massive sigh of relief! Even our local library has reason to hope that some programs that were on the chopping block may survive.
Best thing is the budget is a done deal and we can get on with things.
Oh, and a super-majority of Dems in the both State legislative bodies for the first time in 70 years! That is, honestly, a little scary. But, with Brown at the helm, I'm not too worried.

I read through a thread about Prop 30 and there were the usual gloom-and-doomers posting. They are dead certain that this spells the end of the Cali economy. Businesses will leave, rich people will move, and the economy will crash. They say that whenever there is a change (in any direction) in taxes or in regulation, and they've been doing that for decades. It cracks me up. Throughout those decades, California has remained at the top of the economic heap - by any measure, including technical innovation and entrepreneurship - year after year, despite taxes and regulation (and despite being arguably the largest welfare state in the States). Or, hmmmm, maybe because of taxes and regulation! Duh.
Whatever. If people want to leave, good riddance. It'll free up some space on the roads ;)

.....

How Sandy did not hurt Mitt, no matter how much Republicans might wish it were so.

.....

Why Republicans are so anti-education.

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Lots of people are still suffering from Sandy and the latest storm. I saw someone complaining that they couldn't get power hooked up until a licensed electrician and plumber had been in to check things out, and implying that that was unnecessary red tape. Would they rather have electricity hooked up and then watch their home burn to the ground? How stupid. I understand the frustration but there are only so many workers available and a great deal of work to do.
I follow Southern California Edison (@SCE) on teh twits and they've been posting photos of their work - 16 hours a day, even through a snowstorm! What else do you want?
They also have had some fun of a sort they don't often get around here :)

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My goals for yesterday and today have been thwarted, almost entirely, by Garage Cat. I think he may be ill (big concern being another urinary tract blockage - I don't think I blogged about that at the time but it was hell for both of us and I do not want a repeat) so I locked him in the garage very early yesterday afternoon and he is still stuck in there. No happy kitteh, he. I have the door to the house open in hopes he'll come in and stay in - I want him to become a house cat so I can keep an eye on him all the time and not worry so much. Anyway, it means I can't do certain work for fear of frightening him (don't think he'd like the printer or the paper shredder, for instances), which would make it harder to tell if he is actually ill or just reacting to the weirdness of the situation. *sigh* Stoopid cat.
Also, I've become bored, LOL
Think I'll try to knit ... maybe he'll come in to play with the string :)

.....

I'm not ready to write a new blog. The politics are still interesting. Bear with me - and play along :)
Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
44. SBKaren 11:23 PM GMT on November 09, 2012    
It is chilly today!!!wind is blowing, but it blew the clouds right out. I don't even know if we are expecting more rain.....I thought so.

Hubby picked up a cold somewhere. We both had a scratchy throat on Tuesday morning, but mine went away. He just keep on going and while he feels OK, he is extra tired and his voice is nil.

Spent the morning and early afternoon with mom. I read this article on Facebook and thought you and those that visit your blog would like to read it. I still have trouble with posting links with an iPad, so lets see if I'm successful.

Link

Wow, I did it! I even got the link embedded in a word. I impressed myself!
Member Since: February 21, 2005 Posts: 192 Comments: 14233
45. LowerCal 11:35 PM GMT on November 09, 2012    
.... analysts are saying that money made very little difference. On one of the MSNBC shows last night they talked about Rove's strategy and how bad it was - and how much it cost.
I didn't get everything I wished (and worked) for on Election Day but I am heartened that the "big money" spent in Cali didn't have as big an influence. California and L.A. county voters either made the best decisions (IMO) or made the vote much closer than the storm of deceptive media and mail ads might have foretold.

They only decisions that went heavily awry (IMO) where on a couple of issues that got practically no media time or mail either for or against. The few sentences on the ballot made them seem like great ideas. Maybe the biggest problem is low information voting.

"Thirds" collectively got 2.3% (one fortythird) of the California presidential vote.
Member Since: July 26, 2006 Posts: 58 Comments: 9026
46. Ylee 10:58 PM GMT on November 11, 2012    
How's Garage Cat? You're right, most cats can be stoopid, lol!

The real question now is whether or not Washington can avoid going over the Fiscal Cliff.

I say they'll "kick the can down the road" sometime around Dec. 19th.... :P
Member Since: February 3, 2011 Posts: 67 Comments: 11540
47. WatchinTheSky 5:13 AM GMT on November 13, 2012    
Garage Cat needs to start having tomato juice with breakfast! It worked for us, once we found out about it.

Rainy season is trying to start, almost 1/4" last Friday, woohoo!

'Love is all you need', just ask famous ex generals ;)

Am not sure what kind of cliff it is if it can be kicked down the road...
Member Since: September 20, 2005 Posts: 116 Comments: 852
48. calpoppy 9:17 PM GMT on November 13, 2012    
The world is just a little better when goats smile!

Member Since: February 18, 2008 Posts: 34 Comments: 2495
49. sp34n119w 11:38 PM GMT on November 14, 2012    
I have been really sleepy the last few days. I tossed the cat into the house on Saturday. Turns out, Garage Cat's particular response to that was to hide all day and then prowl and yowl all night. There were brief interludes in the evening which allowed for playing and petting. He didn't eat until I hand-fed him a little bit on Sunday eve and then, when that didn't prompt him to eat from his bowls, I hand-fed him his entire dinner on Monday eve. Tuesday he ate on his own and now seems to be doing okay with that. He has had no trouble finding and using the litter box, thank goodness.
I feel for him. He has no idea what all these things and noises are. The refrigerator, the water filter, the furnace … all make weird noises that could be an existential threat, so far as he knows. The carpet is a real difficulty, catching and trapping his claws at play and when trying to run away. The fireplace looked like a good place to hide but, boy, is it dirty, despite the fact that I've never used it and had scrubbed it before turning the hearth into an entertainment center.
For all that he does not know about beds and ovens and the utterly entrancing television, when I put a basket of laundry on the sofa the other day he went straight for it. Apparently, feline attraction to clean clothes is DNA encoded.
Well, last night he only yowled for only a short while, and quietly, at that. So, I find that I can keep my eyes focused today even though I still don't feel rested. Perhaps we are on our way to peace.

…..

Karen – I tried that link the day you posted it and it didn't work. BUT today it worked! And sucked up a whole lotta time, LOL I appreciate the writer's point and thank you for posting the link :)
The comments, though, were endless. In fact, I finally had to stop reading them. Interesting that the very first long thread was about religion. Some of the back-and-forth on the economy showed the difficulty and complexity well enough.

Hope you and hubby are well over your colds! And enjoying the brief warmup before the next wave of cool and possible rain.

LC – I was honestly surprised that the death penalty repeal did not pass. The other one that didn't go “my way” was the stupid sex offender proposition. From my perspective, that was one of those that sounded good on the ballot despite being worse than useless. I don't remember seeing any mailers or tv ads (I miss most of those, anyway, though) about those two.

Thanks for the number and yikes that's the lowest I've ever seen for Thirds. The Libertarians did pretty well in Cali, garnering more votes than the Greens and P&Fs combined, as usual.
Wait, did I already write that here? Sorry if I did … feeling a little out of touch with my own blog, LOL

Ylee – Garage Cat is on his way to becoming Reluctant House Cat :) Good news is, he doesn't seem to be ill. Angry, scared, and resentful, sure, but not sick. I'm really not sure it's possible to turn a five-and-a-half-year-old feral cat into a happy house moggy. Guess I'll find out!

Luckily, the Republicans seem to have realized that the real cliff is the one they are standing on with regards to the next election cycle.

WTS – Tomato Juice?! Is that to prevent/treat a blockage or to make him a mellow housecat? ;)

Oh, you got much rain! Much more than me, that is. Rain in the forecast again tomorrow through the weekend, I guess … you, too?

Yeah, the “cliff” can't be much of a crisis if anyone thinks it can be put off. As I say, though, I don't think it will be put off. Whether the solution will be to anyone's liking is anyone's guess, of course.

calpoppy – yes, it is! Now that is a happy-making picture! Too cute with his little turned up ears and all :)

…..

Well, between work, tiredness, and Karen's wonderful link, it has taken me all day to write this and I haven't been to others' blogs, as I had hoped to do.
Hopefully I can do that later as I'm feeling more out of touch than usual!

P.S. In a previous comment I wrote "SayNoToTea" as "SoNoToTea". Oops. Sorry! Just a typo. You knew what I meant, though.
Member Since: January 27, 2007 Posts: 78 Comments: 4071
50. Ylee 2:31 AM GMT on November 15, 2012    
I heard they re-elected McConnell to Senate Minority Leader; oh well, maybe he'll be able to send some more pork my way that we don't need! :P
Member Since: February 3, 2011 Posts: 67 Comments: 11540
51. WatchinTheSky 5:14 PM GMT on November 15, 2012    
Tomato juice for cats is like cranberry juice for (female?) people. Helps to keep the system acidic so reducing crystal growth. Not sure I noticed the 'mellow' effect :) our kitty was generally pretty mellow with or without the juice! Our cat would jump into the dryer when just opened and full of warm clean clothes. Definitely in the DNA :) They like to 'help'.
Cloud plume from the south looks pretty impressive, our chances for rain seem slim, but change day to day.
Member Since: September 20, 2005 Posts: 116 Comments: 852

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About sp34n119w
When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. - Edmund Burke

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