Saturday's Question of the Day

By: ricderr , 3:03 PM GMT on November 28, 2009

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Nothing like being home in sunny Florida. Well, it could be a tad warmer, but that's my only complaint. The outside Christmas decorations are up, It's Christmas tree shopping time and then Kyle and I are going fishing today and hopefully tomorrow we all will make it over to Okeechobee to the motocross park. I also have a water heater to change out and am planning how we want to remodel AHM's bathroom. Now if I could only find a local job life would be perfect.

I wanted to talk about how everyone is up in arms over the hacked e-mails about climate change. No, I don't want to argue climate change. Honestly, from an intellectual point of view, I cannot tell you which side is right or even more correct and more to the point, I believe 99 percent of the people who blog here can't either. I however, maintain my thoughts that this is rushed science and I maintain my ire that many groups and people have taken money from some very good enviromental projects and thrown it into AGW to the detriment of the enviroment. Now the notion that these e-mails disprove AGW is foolish, they do however show how politically motivated AGW has been from its inception and how strong the fight for and against is.

Here though is what has surprised me about this event. Nowhere have I seen condemnation for the hacker. In fact, on GetReal's blog there was even a comment, "God bless the hacker." Am I sinking that fast in being old fashioned that it is now OK to hack into someone's private files if you feel your cause is just and that leads to the QOD:

Is hacking a criminal act?

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43. MidWestChaser
2:48 PM GMT on December 01, 2009
Nice show of respect and consideration for another person's blog oregon, turn the subject political to promote you radical fanatical lib agenda.
ric has repeatedly made a point of keeping out of the political bickering, most other posters in his blog have respected that, but then again, that's the issue isn't it...respect, how could anyone expect such a thing from someone so pompus and self important.
42. oregonbirdofprey
4:50 PM GMT on November 29, 2009
Quoting MUSIC "What if they hacked into Menlo Park during the creation of the atom bomb?
I am sure the people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would like to have known the possibility of that version of global warming.
I'm just rambling with-out a point."

Wow, MUSIC, I had to sit back and read that over a couple of times.
Nice of you to stop by.

SSI, A billion here, a body there...nobody counts anymore.
Member Since: September 26, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 955
41. MusicintheKeyofLIFE
1:46 PM GMT on November 29, 2009

Hacking is the result of "gamesmanship" on the web.
My son plays all sorts of games. Some are military, mathematical, action figure based, skill building, and some like donkey Kong. The goal is to beat it's challenge all the way through, not to live life in real time through that persona.
Did I just say they are harmless gamers not criminals?
Evidence obtained illegally is thrown-out of court and they "walk".
Long work hours and familiarity between colleagues is gray area of personal/work dialog.
Question for the question.
What if they hacked into Menlo Park during the creation of the atom bomb?
I am sure the people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would like to have known the possibility of that version of global warming.
I'm just rambling with-out a point.
Member Since: December 28, 2008 Posts: 12 Comments: 53
40. Spetrm
7:51 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
LOL, what did I put pat, UCMG. WOW, airman is right, I'm just a type and not check what I wrote type of guy,

Or it could mean ummm..... Universal code of military got ya!

Member Since: June 9, 2007 Posts: 411 Comments: 9859
38. oregonbirdofprey
6:52 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
Actually I'd have no problem spending a trillion dollars to clean-up this planet we all helped trash, regardless of AGW, real or not. We could use the trillion we'll save not killing Iraqis anymore.
Member Since: September 26, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 955
37. sullivanweather
5:30 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
You know what they say, trillion is the new billion...lol
Member Since: March 8, 2007 Posts: 273 Comments: 12612
35. billsfaninsofla
5:24 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
And you all have no problem spending a trillion dollars in what could be a total hoax? Please, have open minds.
Member Since: September 5, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 6944
34. ricderr
4:47 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
i read your blog sulli....very well written and thought out....thanx
Member Since: June 27, 2006 Posts: 688 Comments: 23655
33. ricderr
3:48 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
now gamma....you know i'm not gonna let you off that easilly.....cus i kinow a few things that you are liberal about...so....i don't buy that us against them crap....that works in a fwe other blogs...blogs on both sides..not here...LOLOL....plus...i think someone already mentioned the palin e-mail hackings and the uproar over that...so...at best...both sides are good at whining grab a lawyer when it suits them
Member Since: June 27, 2006 Posts: 688 Comments: 23655
32. sullivanweather
3:43 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
This is the last two paragraphs of my blog posting today. It should help to explain a few of my thoughts on all this.


So what does this all amount to? For one, an investigation should be commenced to determine the extent of coercion implemented by the scientists involved in their attempts to stifle skeptical papers from being published in scientific journals and their attempts to elude the UK’s Freedom of Information Act. Additionally, an investigation should also be launched to determine how the UEA CRU’s data server was compromised, whether through a hack or by a leak, which is still yet to be determined. Those responsible for this hack/leak should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Despite the fact that the information obtained from the hack/leak may in fact be criminal in nature, the information was stolen. This also presents its own set of problems as the information gathered by the hack/leak wasn’t obtained legally. This could have implications on possible charges to be filed, if any, and subsequent court proceedings.

In conclusion, despite all the controversy arising from ‘Climategate’ there’s nothing in the e-mails between the climate scientists involved proving they manipulated data or that climate change in a non-existent phenomenon. There are still megabytes of encrypted code that have yet to be analyzed but thus far the only conspiracy realized is the stifling of the peer-review process through coercion and the evasion of the UK Freedom of Information Act. On a personal note, I believe that it is a conflict of interest to have the climate change scientist ring-leaders to also be in charge of publishing global temperature data. If anything is to be learned from this so-called ‘Climategate’ it is that scientists promoting the anthropogenic global warming theory have let their personal beliefs get in the way of proper science.
Member Since: March 8, 2007 Posts: 273 Comments: 12612
31. charlesimages
3:36 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
Is hacking a criminal act?

It'd be nice if hacking was used for good instead of evil. But then all the fun goes out the window.. LOL
Member Since: May 25, 2006 Posts: 347 Comments: 29278
30. airman45
3:35 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
Quoting Patrap:
That would be the
"UCMJ"..unless they changed it from "Uniform Code Of Military Justice"..since 1986.


It is still UCMJ, Patrap. I think Spetrm has a jumpy finger. LOL
Member Since: April 2, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 3514
29. ricderr
3:25 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
actually....both in the UK...and the european union...hacking is a crime....don't get me wrong...i think this shows bad science was used...or at the very least prejudiced science..but i'd also like to see the hacker get his also
Member Since: June 27, 2006 Posts: 688 Comments: 23655
27. mobal
1:45 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
Since when is suppressing data at best, changing at worst.. empirical??
Member Since: August 3, 2005 Posts: 482 Comments: 5333
26. Patrap
1:38 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
In other words..we have a prime example of a Personal view..and zero knowledge of the empirical Science approach.

Go figure.

Sen. Inhofe is a Master of that art and we shall see it soon nuff again as the Republicans in the Senate actually want hearings on the E-mail non issue.

Imagine that.

More Hot air to deal with.

LOL....

p.s. Its a Family matter,..now we all should worry.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 437 Comments: 134747
25. mobal
1:37 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
If it was hacked, which it may or may not have been it is not a criminal act. There are no international laws set up for such that I know of.

To me though the better question is if the manipulation of data broke any laws.....
Member Since: August 3, 2005 Posts: 482 Comments: 5333
24. Patrap
1:26 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
That would be the
"UCMJ"..unless they changed it from "Uniform Code Of Military Justice"..since 1986.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 437 Comments: 134747
23. seflagamma
1:22 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
Hi Ric,

No time to read back but from what have learned...
these emails were not hacked; they were "leaked" from the inside.


When conservatives get "hacked" it is aOK
when it is libs getting hacked,
it is "get a lawyer this is a crime"

what can I say, I am biased and I admit it.
:o)


So very happy you got to come home for Thanksgiving..
and I am so hoping you get to come home to stay very soon.

I really want you to get to be with your lovely wife and family..

you know I am a "family" kind of gal.


Tell Becky I said Hello and glad her Bathroom is getting finished!

take care and keep in touch!




Member Since: August 29, 2005 Posts: 306 Comments: 41055
22. Spetrm
12:41 AM GMT on November 29, 2009
According to the military UCMG it is punishable by several months in the slammer. So yes...
Member Since: June 9, 2007 Posts: 411 Comments: 9859
21. Ossqss
8:45 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
Great question.

Is it a crime to not report a crime you withness? Is this hacking or whistleblowing? Enron, Madoff style? You may find that the nicely packaged ZIP file was not created by the person who released it, but by the person who intended to delete it to avoid exposure if necessary.

Intentionally avoiding the FOIA is a crime in itself, let alone corrupting the peer review process and incorporating bias in a global process that has cost trillions. There is huge liability at stake. Jail awaits some involved, after the attorney's get their cut over the next several years.

Remember, anything you talk/type, text, email, post, etc. is stored in places you don't even know about.

The truth always comes out in the end, as it will here :)
Member Since: June 12, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 8192
20. LowerCal
8:37 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
.... Nowhere have I seen condemnation for the hacker. In fact, on GetReal's blog there was even a comment, "God bless the hacker." Am I sinking that fast in being old fashioned that it is now OK to hack into someone's private files if you feel your cause is just and that leads to the QOD:

Is hacking a criminal act?


Even if they didn't break a window to do it is still theft.

It is a criminal act and those who do it even in what they feel is a righteous cause should be prepared to pay some hard penalties.

At the U.S. federal level the penalties are up to $250,000 and 10 years.
Member Since: July 26, 2006 Posts: 59 Comments: 9703
19. Patrap
8:11 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
Throwing a curve,before Copenhagen is a good bet on the Hacker/Hacker's motive.

Deflection of Point is a very old tactic..

Timing is everything in the big scheme of things.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 437 Comments: 134747
17. aquak9
7:22 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
ric that's excellent.
Member Since: August 13, 2005 Posts: 192 Comments: 27857
16. ricderr
7:11 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
yep aqak.....we have raised beds in the backyard about a 16 x 24 ft area.....
Member Since: June 27, 2006 Posts: 688 Comments: 23655
14. Alleyoops
6:49 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
Just remember folks, it depends on who is doing the hacking....when its the secret service, FBI, Interpol etc, it for the benefit of catching a probable criminal/terrorist or whoever they feel is a threat to the country. When its an individual doing it then its a crime. Just depends on how you look at it and for what purpose it was meant to achieve. Just remember BIG BROTHER IS ALWAYS WATCHING.
Member Since: April 18, 2007 Posts: 190 Comments: 29460
13. aquak9
6:40 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
hey ric? now you gotta get AHM and the kids to consider a garden.
they'd be amazed at the power of kitchen scraps.

hierloom, not genetically enhanced seeds. Seed strains that are the same as 40-50 years ago, no chemicals, either. BountifulGardens (website) = sustainable agriculture.

oh yeah, hacking is BAD. It's like someone robbing your home. (had to TRY to stay on topic)
Member Since: August 13, 2005 Posts: 192 Comments: 27857
12. MidWestChaser
6:37 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
You are right, ric, it could very well be from the "other side" but it still doesn't invalidate the information, and unless I have misunderstood something about this whole mess...didn't they (the researchers) already admit the validity of the documents, and that they were not altered or fabricated? Second to that, do hackers need funding? When I think of a hacker I have a mental image of some overweight 45 year old virgin living in his mother's basement pounding keyboards all day when he is not living the dream of his burger flipping career (you know-like the guy from "Live Free or Die Hard". Or a group of super nerdy teenagers "hacking" passwords for porn sites....good thing the internet was just barely in it's infancy when I was younger or my life could be so different right now!
11. OSHNBLU
6:35 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
the age old question...does the end justify the means.

Glad you are hime Ric...gotta be a blessing to be with AHM and the kids!
Member Since: July 13, 2005 Posts: 117 Comments: 5226
10. MidWestChaser
6:14 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
If someone hacked my e-mail they'd see some disturbing pictures someone sent me of apparent real people in Wal-Mart, and they'd know what movies were on the way to me from NetFlix.
Ooooooohhhhh scary stuff!
8. ricderr
5:37 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
hey...if someone hacked my e-mails..they'd find that i'm pretty boring
Member Since: June 27, 2006 Posts: 688 Comments: 23655
7. ricderr
5:36 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
well midwest....when you're not off ridiculing..(that's a joke..yes a bad joke..but that's my best kind)...you bring up some very valid points....and the opposite of what you said could also be true...that the hacker was funded by big oil..or coal..or the likes...and the only reason they did this was they can't prove AGW is not a fact...so probably in reality...it proves nothing...but at least for me....so far...it shows that whichever side of the fence you are on...the act itself is wrong
Member Since: June 27, 2006 Posts: 688 Comments: 23655
5. MidWestChaser
5:24 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
ric,
There is nothing "soft" about hacking, while granted, this time, and many times in the past the crime was used to acheive a positive....no that's not right...the crime was committed for the greater good of humanity...wow, there's an insane statement that I doubt was ever said before...sounds so noble and just, but the fact remains it was still a crime.
Have you ever known anyone who was a victim of identity theft that was initiated by a hacker, or someone who had their bank account hacked and cleaned out? That's just two scenarios of the detrimental things a hacker can do, how do we know this mystery hacker hasn't hacked for those same or other harmful reasons as well. After all, how long can someone hold the power to make any and all parts of everyone's lidfe their personal knowledge, or exposed to the public, or altered for good or bad reasons, and not use it? Rember that little saying about "absolute power"?
The information exposed by this "hacker" certainly needed to be brought to light, but what the hacker may not realize they have done is to have let everyone off the hook for their crimes and deceptions, by stealing the information it is not viable evidence, and by hacking their system, they can now claim that any and all of their data is corrupted because they can not verify that their information was not altered by the hacker, nor can they confirm that it was. That considered, this seems more like a brilliant closure to a perfect, multi-billion dollar caper.
In the end, we will probably never actually be able to prove that it was a hack and not a leak, and do the governments that have invested so heavily into the findings of this allegedly false science really want the answer...do they really want to prove to the world that they've been duped? Not just mugged, but led blindly down a path for YEARS while being fleeced for billions upon billions of dollars, while investing more billions upon billions following the advice and instructions of these "researchers", without ever once saying "prove it" or "show us what you did with all of our money".
4. unclemush
5:06 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
When Palins e-mails were hacked it seemed to be a big deal.
Member Since: July 7, 2001 Posts: 59 Comments: 13186
3. ricderr
4:58 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
i think we all pretty much know it's illegal....but is it like speeding...it's no biggee for most of us to drive over the limit....it's a soft law....LOL
Member Since: June 27, 2006 Posts: 688 Comments: 23655
2. unclemush
3:56 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
Hi as far as I know hacking is not a lawful act.LOL :)
Member Since: July 7, 2001 Posts: 59 Comments: 13186
1. oregonbirdofprey
3:18 PM GMT on November 28, 2009
Isn't "god bless the hacker" an interesting sentiment from a group of people who are nearly frozen in the fear of someone or some group getting "in their business"? Technically I think hacking is illegal in some form in all states and at a federal level as well. Unfortunatly the federal government is probably the biggest hacker of all. Everyone has their own idea of when the end justifies the means. I believe that it rarely does and that it is reasonable to expect some level of privacy in all types of communication. I'm not sure how that plays out in the real world though.
Member Since: September 26, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 955

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