Best Possible Future

By: Dr. Ricky Rood , 5:42 AM GMT on December 29, 2013

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Best Possible Future

In a couple of weeks I will be starting my climate change problem-solving course. I didn’t teach last winter as I was working on a project called the National Climate Predictions and Projections (NCPP) Platform. My participation in NCPP follows from my class, and NCPP is focused on how to improve the usability of climate change knowledge in planning and management. We recently had a publication in Eos, called the Practitioner’s Dilemma. I also worked on an adaptation plan for Isle Royale National Park. You can get a copy of the report at this link. Working on that report we came to the realization that in many cases we really cannot look to the past, look to conserve the past, but that we need to look to manage the best possible future with a warming climate and changing rain and snow.

Starting in 2011 I quit teaching about “avoiding dangerous climate change,” which was the policy statement that we might control our emissions well enough to keep the average surface temperature from rising more than 2 degrees Celsius. I starting teaching that we needed to prepare for a world with at least 4 degrees Celsius warming. We’ve already passed 400 parts per million carbon dioxide, and there is no indication that we “collectively” are going stop our rate of emissions anytime soon.

I believe that it is far more likely that we will take action to reduce our emissions if we use the current information that we have in planning. Take the Isle Royale project, for example. A unique aspect of Isle Royale is its isolated wolf-moose, predator-prey ecology. Even without the challenges of climate change, the future of this ecosystem is fragile. The Park Service faces contentious decisions about managing the wolf and moose populations. There is nothing from a warming climate that works in favor of the wolf-moose ecosystem. Isle Royale is already at the southern edge of boreal forest. Disruptions to the forest due to extreme weather events will occur, and after these events, the ecosystem will be recovering in a climate that is warmer, where snow cover is changing, surrounded by Lake Superior, which has been warming more quickly than the land. There is no reason to expect that the ecosystem will be the same after the disruptions that will surely occur. This will change the browse that the moose rely on; the ecosystem will be different. Thinking about these problems in terms of plausible scenarios makes the impact of climate change far more real.

A revelation from the Isle Royale work was the need to think more about the best possible futures rather than preserving the past. Weather has always been disruptive, and we have always behaved with the idea that the weather of the future will be, mostly, like the weather of the past. If we continue to rebuild and plan with the assumption that the future will be like the past, then we will be making mistakes that we do not have to make. In the case of Isle Royale, a small isolated ecosystem, there is little reason to believe that left to what occurs naturally that the ecosystem in 100 years will be much like the ecosystem of 100 years ago. The same is true for more human constructs, like the City of New Orleans. The challenges of keeping New Orleans and the energy infrastructure that surrounds New Orleans viable, much less vital, will become greater and more expensive.

As I have changed my class over the years, I talk less and less about national and international policy options. I read an interview of Robert Stavins in the Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences Alumni magazine, Colloquy. ( Here is a PDF of the current issue with the interview.) Professor Stavins is a leader in environmental economics and policy. In the interview he stated optimism that the world is moving slowly towards climate policy. There were a number of reasons for guarded optimism, but he viewed that the most fundamental was that negotiators had moved away from putting “the world into two groups: the industrialized world and the other countries,” which assured that nothing would happen. Still with regard to policy to mitigate greenhouse gas emissions effectively: “International climate policy development, for a whole set of scientific, economic, and political reasons, is a very gradual process.”

I have expressed optimism in previous blogs. My optimism has largely been based on my students, and their willingness to take on these problems of planning and adaptation, while dismissing the arguments of climate-change denial as disruption founded in political, emotional and financial self interest. I find that more and more cities and regional planners realize that they need to take climate change into account if they are to make the best decisions they can make for the communities and organizations they care about. They understand that their weather-related vulnerability is changing.

We may or may not be moving towards mitigation of carbon dioxide emissions. If we are moving forward in a very gradual process, this means that “dangerous climate change” is unavoidable. Dangerous climate change can be far less dangerous if we use the knowledge that we have now in our planning. The exercise of using this knowledge changes how to think about the knowledge generated by scientific research. It leads to research questions on what is important to improve the usability in real-world problems, often a far different perspective than the questions to improve our fundamental knowledge of the Earth's climate.

r

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702. WunderAlertBot (Admin)
5:59 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
RickyRood has created a new entry.
701. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
4:55 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 700. SteveDa1:


Well, personally, I wouldn't want any harm to Stephen Harper (don't get me wrong, writing his name down is enough to anger me). I just wish he would realize he was delusional.
we all got to take the medicine that's due
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 169 Comments: 53296
700. SteveDa1
4:05 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 698. KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
that's ok the polar vortex is coming to get em all


:)


Well, personally, I wouldn't want any harm to Stephen Harper (don't get me wrong, writing his name down is enough to anger me). I just wish he would realize he was delusional.
Member Since: October 17, 2006 Posts: 60 Comments: 1297
699. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
3:44 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 690. yoboi:


How did humans cause the Fukushima disaster???
by building a plant close to a sea side area that is prone to tidal waves in large earth quakes that occur under the sea
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 169 Comments: 53296
698. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
3:18 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 697. SteveDa1:
I'm inclined to think that this will be of interest here...

This is absolutely infuriating to me! We should, by all means, realize that we are absolutely controlled by the land. And here you have a complete disrespect towards what is most precious to us--the earth.

Canadian libricide: Tories torch and dump centuries of priceless, irreplaceable environmental archives

[The legendary environmental research resources of the St. Andrews Biological Station in St. Andrews, New Brunswick are gone. The Freshwater Institute library in Winnipeg and the Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Centre in St. John's, Newfoundland: gone. Both collections were world-class.]

[The destruction of these publicly owned collections was undertaken in haste. No records were kept of what was thrown away, what was sold, and what was simply lost. Some of the books were burned.]

[...the Harper government strongly regards environmental science as a threat to unfettered resource exploitation.]

Read more at link above.
that's ok the polar vortex is coming to get em all


:)
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 169 Comments: 53296
697. SteveDa1
2:59 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
I'm inclined to think that this will be of interest here...

This is absolutely infuriating to me! We should, by all means, realize that we are absolutely controlled by the land. And here you have a complete disrespect towards what is most precious to us--the earth.

Canadian libricide: Tories torch and dump centuries of priceless, irreplaceable environmental archives

[The legendary environmental research resources of the St. Andrews Biological Station in St. Andrews, New Brunswick are gone. The Freshwater Institute library in Winnipeg and the Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Centre in St. John's, Newfoundland: gone. Both collections were world-class.]

[The destruction of these publicly owned collections was undertaken in haste. No records were kept of what was thrown away, what was sold, and what was simply lost. Some of the books were burned.]

[...the Harper government strongly regards environmental science as a threat to unfettered resource exploitation.]

Read more at link above.
Member Since: October 17, 2006 Posts: 60 Comments: 1297
695. DaveFive
1:44 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 687. GTstormChaserCaleb:
Serious question here, but which energy source will be the most efficient, not as expensive and easiest to access or generate: Hydrothermal, Geothermal, or Solar?
I would go with solar too.
Member Since: August 16, 2013 Posts: 9 Comments: 311
694. Daisyworld
1:37 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 687. GTstormChaserCaleb:
Serious question here, but which energy source will be the most efficient, not as expensive and easiest to access or generate: Hydrothermal, Geothermal, or Solar?


The best way to look at this question is this: How many forms of energy must the power transfer through before it becomes electricity?:

Coal/Oil/Natural Gas (5): Light energy (sun) --> Chemical energy (plants) --> Heat energy (burning) --> Mechanical energy (turbine) --> Electrical energy

Nuclear (4): Neutron energy (isotope) --> Heat energy (critical mass) --> Mechanical energy (turbine) --> Electrical energy

Wind (4): Light energy (sun) --> Heat energy (absorbance) --> Mechanical energy (turbine) --> Electrical energy

Solar (2): Light energy (sun) --> Electrical energy

The fewer the energy transitions, the more efficient the energy source. So, yes. As Naga indicated, solar. Hands down when it comes to efficiency only.

However, I would add that cost is based on availability of materials too, not just efficiency. Access, well, that's a different issue too. But, as Naga also indicated, solar is available anywhere there is daylight.
Member Since: January 11, 2012 Posts: 6 Comments: 850
693. cyclonebuster
12:57 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 690. yoboi:


How did humans cause the Fukushima disaster???


Look up "Static Head Pressure"...
Member Since: January 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20393
692. yoboi
12:35 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 691. GTstormChaserCaleb:
By building the power plant. Remember anything built is by the human hands. I present to you the wonders of the world.



I thought a tsunami caused it.....
Member Since: August 25, 2010 Posts: 7 Comments: 2328
691. GTstormChaserCaleb
12:26 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 690. yoboi:


How did humans cause the Fukushima disaster???
By building the power plant. Remember anything built is by the human hands. I present to you the wonders of the world.

Member Since: June 30, 2013 Posts: 11 Comments: 7466
690. yoboi
12:17 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 685. Naga5000:
Dr. Spencer has jumped the shark. That blog post was devoid of accurate information, and he digressed into a seemingly senile rant about Google search trends.

Man, the same Dr. Spencer who has thrown his scientific objectivity aside in favor of "An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming"?

Since he believes man cannot possibly alter God's perfect Earth, would you mind asking him how he can reconcile Fukushima, Chernobyl, oil spills, pollution, and any number of other sources of man made problems that have altered the environment and changed how ecosystems function on large scales. TIA.


How did humans cause the Fukushima disaster???
Member Since: August 25, 2010 Posts: 7 Comments: 2328
689. GTstormChaserCaleb
12:16 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 688. Naga5000:


I go with solar.




Link
Nice, thanks Naga!
Member Since: June 30, 2013 Posts: 11 Comments: 7466
688. Naga5000
12:13 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 687. GTstormChaserCaleb:
Serious question here, but which energy source will be the most efficient, not as expensive and easiest to access or generate: Hydrothermal, Geothermal, or Solar?


I go with solar.




Link
Member Since: June 1, 2010 Posts: 4 Comments: 3238
687. GTstormChaserCaleb
12:11 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 678. Patrap:
The World needs to stop the runaway warming.

It is important that the world get together, to face the problems that attack us as a unit.

Serious question here, but which energy source will be the most efficient, not as expensive and easiest to access or generate: Hydrothermal, Geothermal, or Solar?
Member Since: June 30, 2013 Posts: 11 Comments: 7466
686. Naga5000
12:09 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 684. Birthmark:

Roy Spencer? Where have I heard that name before?

Oh, yeah! He's the UAH guy. As opposed to his blog babbling, his data looks like this:



The trend is +0.174±0.088ºC/decade.

Why he tries to play blog games is a bit of a mystery.


He doesn't take his meds on the weekends.
Member Since: June 1, 2010 Posts: 4 Comments: 3238
685. Naga5000
12:08 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Dr. Spencer has jumped the shark. That blog post was devoid of accurate information, and he digressed into a seemingly senile rant about Google search trends.

Man, the same Dr. Spencer who has thrown his scientific objectivity aside in favor of "An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming"?

Since he believes man cannot possibly alter God's perfect Earth, would you mind asking him how he can reconcile Fukushima, Chernobyl, oil spills, pollution, and any number of other sources of man made problems that have altered the environment and changed how ecosystems function on large scales. TIA.
Member Since: June 1, 2010 Posts: 4 Comments: 3238
684. Birthmark
12:05 AM GMT on January 06, 2014
Quoting 683. Creideiki:


"Drudge" and "Journalistic" belong in the same sentence about as much as "WUWT" and "science" do.

Roy Spencer? Where have I heard that name before?

Oh, yeah! He's the UAH guy. As opposed to his blog babbling, his data looks like this:



The trend is +0.174±0.088ºC/decade.

Why he tries to play blog games is a bit of a mystery.
Member Since: October 30, 2005 Posts: 7 Comments: 5469
683. Creideiki
11:32 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 682. yoboi:
Snow Trolling by Drudge? Or Journalistic Equal Time?


Link


"Drudge" and "Journalistic" belong in the same sentence about as much as "WUWT" and "science" do.
Member Since: July 10, 2013 Posts: 0 Comments: 162
682. yoboi
11:22 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Snow Trolling by Drudge? Or Journalistic Equal Time?


Link
Member Since: August 25, 2010 Posts: 7 Comments: 2328
681. JohnLonergan
10:17 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Member Since: June 27, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 3147
680. Daisyworld
9:50 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 670. mrnicktou:


[...]

Ya'll are blaming the wrong people in this it's these guys you need to go after sadly nobody cares they blame cars for it and factories which play a small and I mean extremely small factor in it barely any.


You think we should only be "going after" manufacturers and operators of equipment that the IPCC has concluded are contributing only 2-3% to radiative forcings?
Member Since: January 11, 2012 Posts: 6 Comments: 850
679. Daisyworld
9:43 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 677. MisterPerfect:
[...]

The world needs more heavy ice breakers.


Why?
Member Since: January 11, 2012 Posts: 6 Comments: 850
678. Patrap
8:56 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
The World needs to stop the runaway warming.

It is important that the world get together, to face the problems that attack us as a unit.

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 420 Comments: 127536
677. MisterPerfect
8:39 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Russia has 4 Arktika-class icebreakers (heavy duty) in service.

The U.S. has 2 Polar-class ice breakers and one older, smaller vessel capable of ice breaking.

Arktika-class icebreaker

China has 1 heavy icebreaker (Snow Dragon) and it is the one that is currently stuck awaiting the Polar Star for help. The Chinese have also been building a new heavy ice breaker set to launch in 2014.

The Norwegian vessel Svalbard is only capable of breaking thin ice (ice browsing)

There are many ice breakers in the world today, but only a handful can cut through the thickest ice. And of course, there is ice that no ship can cut...so stay away from those areas, darnit.


List of icebreakers

The world needs more heavy ice breakers.
Member Since: November 1, 2006 Posts: 71 Comments: 20135
676. MisterPerfect
8:12 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Polar 8 Project

:(
Member Since: November 1, 2006 Posts: 71 Comments: 20135
675. Naga5000
6:27 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 671. nymore:
No sir I did not miss anything, I knew the boat was in moth balls for years.

BTW thank you for doing some research and finding out it has not made the run since 2006 (which is not regularly as my earlier post indicated). It may have in the past but not lately (by lately I mean 7 or 8 years).

It may have been stationed in Sydney years and years ago but not now, so thank you for learning that to.

See you can learn something everyday, once again I am proud of you for learning the truth.

Have a good day. I am out to do something way more important than this watch football


Thanks, bud. See, I knew those things. You accused me of lying, which I wasn't. Enjoy the football, try not to get so worked up.
Member Since: June 1, 2010 Posts: 4 Comments: 3238
674. Physicistretired
5:48 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 532. wxgeek723:
If I do recall there was a discussion in here a few weeks ago about the Southern Pine Beetle and its potential effects in New Jersey because the winters here are simply no longer harsh enough to keep it at bay.

I would just like to bring the good news that we have had one of our coldest nights in years with several areas in the Pinelands dipping below zero. Whether or not this is enough to slow the progression of the pest, we will have to see, but it certainly didn't hurt anything (well maybe the vineyards but they'll be fine).



wxgeek,

That would indeed be good news - but the NJ Weather and Climate Center (Rutgers) shows that only a few places in NJ saw temps below -8F, the temperature needed to kill the Southern Pine Beetle.

I'll link the site for you here

Look at the low temps for the 3rd - 5th. A few places like Kingwood, Pequest, and Walpack were cold enough to do the job - but they're in the northern part of the state, far from the Pinelands.

Sorry the news isn't better.
Member Since: December 21, 2013 Posts: 0 Comments: 230
673. Xandra
4:58 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 624. Naga5000:

The world has more than two heavy duty ice breakers. The Finns and Swedes have an Ice Class equivalent. [...]

The Swedish icebreaker Oden has participated in several scientific expeditions in Antarctica.

-----

Voyage of Icebreaker Oden

In 2006 the National Science Foundation hired the Swedish icebreaker Oden to create a channel through a 15-mile band of ice blocking its Antarctic research base, McMurdo Station, from the sea. In addition to clearing the way, the Oden also carried researchers on board, who conducted several scientific studies that could shed light on how global warming might be affecting certain regions of Antarctica. Watch the ship plow through the famed Drake Passage and around the perimeter of the southern continent.

Member Since: November 22, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 1281
672. Patrap
4:38 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Lordy, try the phish, you need some protein maybe.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 420 Comments: 127536
671. nymore
4:29 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 669. Naga5000:



It was, you missed the part about them being moored for years in Seattle due to not getting the needed upgrades.

These ships were used for McMurdo runs frequently in their heyday.

This ship was stationed in Sydney as it was not brought back to it's port of origin in Seattle after its McMurdo drop off, which was the first in many years, yes. My point was, they did not bring this ship from Seattle to break ice to save a stranded ship.

before accusing someone of lying, you should probably read a bit more. Thanks.

"This is the first time since 2006 that the Polar Star has made this journey. It has recently completed a three-year, $90 million overhaul, which will allow it to continue these important missions into the foreseeable future. For more than 50 years, Coast Guard icebreaker crews have deployed to Antarctica in support of Operation Deep Freeze. They will again assist by creating a navigable shipping lane through the layers of sea ice in McMurdo Sound permitting delivery of critical fuel and supplies needed to operate the U.S. McMurdo and South Pole stations throughout the coming year." Link
No sir I did not miss anything, I knew the boat was in moth balls for years.

BTW thank you for doing some research and finding out it has not made the run since 2006 (which is not regularly as my earlier post indicated). It may have in the past but not lately (by lately I mean 7 or 8 years).

It may have been stationed in Sydney years and years ago but not now, so thank you for learning that to.

See you can learn something everyday, once again I am proud of you for learning the truth.

Have a good day. I am out to do something way more important than this watch football
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2255
670. mrnicktou
4:27 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 48. RickyRood:
Not sure I understand the contrails and ship track arguments. These things been around for years. Quantitative calculations of their effect on warming / cooling discussed in IPCC since the mid 1990s. Contrails sometimes merge into high level ststus/cirrus above cities, but highly localized. Global effect pretty small. Help keep nights warmer at times.

Ship tracks mostly trapped in the marine boundary layer as I recall. One of the motivators of thinking about salty clouds for geoengineering.

Lot of literature on these things if you want to bring science-based conclusions to the argument.

r





Sorry I've been gone a few days probably on to a different topic by now.

You said they keep cities warmer at night...

Exactly they warm us up.

I never saw them when I was a kid now they are everywhere and one day they are above like crazy the next day they are not. I've seen planes flying at roughly the same altitude and yet one is "spraying" the other one is not. Interesting. How come I see rainbows in them as well?

Ya'll are blaming the wrong people in this it's these guys you need to go after sadly nobody cares they blame cars for it and factories which play a small and I mean extremely small factor in it barely any.
Member Since: July 28, 2009 Posts: 1 Comments: 64
669. Naga5000
4:05 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 651. Birthmark:

So, now you own a scientific expedition and the NSA. I expect your influence is roughly equal in either case.
Quoting 662. nymore:
Based in Sydney, I don't think so. Regularly used for runs, I don't think so.

U.S. Coast Guard | Dec 04, 2013
SEATTLE 2013 Coast Guard Cutter Polar Star departed Coast Guard Base Seattle for Antarctica, Tuesday, in support of Operation Deep Freeze for the first time since 2006 with the task of resupplying the National Science Foundation Scientific Research Station in McMurdo

Stop spreading lies please some come here for facts, thank you

Edit: See Xulonn already thought it was true, shameful.



It was, you missed the part about them being moored for years in Seattle due to not getting the needed upgrades.

These ships were used for McMurdo runs frequently in their heyday.

This ship was stationed in Sydney as it was not brought back to it's port of origin in Seattle after its McMurdo drop off, which was the first in many years, yes. My point was, they did not bring this ship from Seattle to break ice to save a stranded ship.

before accusing someone of lying, you should probably read a bit more. Thanks.

"This is the first time since 2006 that the Polar Star has made this journey. It has recently completed a three-year, $90 million overhaul, which will allow it to continue these important missions into the foreseeable future. For more than 50 years, Coast Guard icebreaker crews have deployed to Antarctica in support of Operation Deep Freeze. They will again assist by creating a navigable shipping lane through the layers of sea ice in McMurdo Sound permitting delivery of critical fuel and supplies needed to operate the U.S. McMurdo and South Pole stations throughout the coming year." Link
Member Since: June 1, 2010 Posts: 4 Comments: 3238
668. Patrap
4:00 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Oooh, someone hit the ol #666 anti-post Jackpot.


"Karma" on a Sunday morn.


A musical investigation into the causes and effects of global climate change and our opportunities to use science to offset it. Featuring Bill Nye, David Attenborough, Richard Alley and Isaac Asimov. "Our Biggest Challenge" is the 16th episode of the Symphony of Science series by melodysheep.

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 420 Comments: 127536
667. Birthmark
3:55 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 666. MisterPerfect:


Nah, saving up for more important things.

I notice you say that in post 666.

Coincidence?
Member Since: October 30, 2005 Posts: 7 Comments: 5469
666. MisterPerfect
3:52 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 665. Birthmark:

Maybe you can borrow some cash against one of them? Could buy yourself a mighty fine truck for that kind of money.


Nah, saving up for more important things.
Member Since: November 1, 2006 Posts: 71 Comments: 20135
665. Birthmark
3:51 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 657. MisterPerfect:


damn skippy. I own even the treacherous projects. we all do.

Maybe you can borrow some cash against one of them? Could buy yourself a mighty fine truck for that kind of money.
Member Since: October 30, 2005 Posts: 7 Comments: 5469
664. MisterPerfect
3:50 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 661. Patrap:
If one can't find the World Ship registry, maybe burgers and golf is a good Sunday treat for ya.

: )


help me out then PP...link?

If I am understanding your fascinating colloquialism correctly..
Member Since: November 1, 2006 Posts: 71 Comments: 20135
663. MisterPerfect
3:49 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
I think the Polar Sea is in Seattle...Polar Star was in Sydney
Member Since: November 1, 2006 Posts: 71 Comments: 20135
662. nymore
3:47 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 638. Naga5000:
Another thing to understand about icebreakers, is due to their unique design, they usually do not travel in open waters very far. "Icebreakers are an excellent example of a laser-focused vehicle. In the same way as a half-million dollar sports car can be a real pain around the speed humps and u-turns of the city, these goliaths of the Arctic are very poorly designed for operation outside their specific envelope.

The key element here is that rounded bow. A shape best suited to riding up on ice shelves and crushing them from above, it causes the ships to roll from side to side in the waves when sailing on open water, making for a very seasick ride for the crew."

The icebreaker used in this case is stationed in Sydney and is regularly used for runs to the U.S. run McMurdo station.

It would be very dangerous to grab a Russian, Finnish, Canadian icebreaker to make the trip.

Context is your friend.
Based in Sydney, I don't think so. Regularly used for runs, I don't think so.

U.S. Coast Guard | Dec 04, 2013
SEATTLE 2013 Coast Guard Cutter Polar Star departed Coast Guard Base Seattle for Antarctica, Tuesday, in support of Operation Deep Freeze for the first time since 2006 with the task of resupplying the National Science Foundation Scientific Research Station in McMurdo

Stop spreading lies please some come here for facts, thank you

Edit: See Xulonn already thought it was true, shameful.
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2255
661. Patrap
3:46 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
If one can't find the World Ship registry, maybe burgers and golf is a good Sunday treat for ya.

: )
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 420 Comments: 127536
660. MisterPerfect
3:45 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 655. Patrap:
I see Bobs Burgers has quipped.

No er,image redeux ?

That dint go well for him a spell back.

: )



:)

hey there facebooker!

how's the weather up there today?
Member Since: November 1, 2006 Posts: 71 Comments: 20135
659. Xulonn
3:44 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 638. Naga5000:

The icebreaker used in this case is stationed in Sydney and is regularly used for runs to the U.S. run McMurdo station.

It would be very dangerous to grab a Russian, Finnish, Canadian icebreaker to make the trip.

Context is your friend.
Excellent points - I hadn't thought about the need for icebreakers to open routes to McMurdo.

BTW, here is a link to an absolutely excellent National Geographic News article from January 3, 2014 on the subject of icebreakers.


Quoting National Geographic News:

What about the Shokalskiy and the rescue ships in the Antarctic?

The Shokalskiy is an ice-capable ship, built in the Soviet era, and its main function is now expedition and tourism. The three ships that made attempts to reach it are all probably on the high end of the ice-capable scale, but I wouldn't classify them as icebreakers. (Also see: "Who's on That Russian Ship Stuck on Antarctic Ice?")

What's the metric that people use to tell the difference between an ice-capable ship and an icebreaker?

One of the rules of thumb is how many feet of ice could it break at a given speed. The U.S. has two of the most powerful non-nuclear icebreakers in the world, the Polar Sea and the Polar Star. They can break over 6 feet [1.8 meters] of ice continuously at [a speed of] three knots. [One of Russia's largest nuclear-powered icebreakers, considered the strongest in the world, could break] probably upwards of ten feet [three meters]. [A ship that is merely "ice-capable"] would break 3 feet [0.9 meter] of ice or less at that speed.

What is making conditions so hard for these ships in the Antarctic?

The toughest kind of ice is sea ice that's under pressure from wind. Ice has a rough texture, and wind will push an ice field close together and actually pile the ice up. I think this is essentially what happened to the Russian ship. The blizzard or heavy winds put the ice under pressure and jammed it up.
Member Since: June 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 1406
658. yoboi
3:43 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 652. Neapolitan:
There was a float that worked fine in preview, but messed with the comment margins when posted. I removed it immediately; you must have clicked in during the ten seconds or so it was up before I could edit...



Thanks for explaining....soon as I refreshed the page it was ok.....
Member Since: August 25, 2010 Posts: 7 Comments: 2328
657. MisterPerfect
3:43 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 651. Birthmark:

So, now you own a scientific expedition and the NSA. I expect your influence is roughly equal in either case.


damn skippy. I own even the treacherous projects. we all do.
Member Since: November 1, 2006 Posts: 71 Comments: 20135
656. Patrap
3:43 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
I'm pretty sure

Translated: "I have no idea"
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 420 Comments: 127536
655. Patrap
3:42 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
I see Bobs Burgers has quipped.

No er,image redeux ?

That dint go well for him a spell back.

: )

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 420 Comments: 127536
654. MisterPerfect
3:42 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 648. Naga5000:


No it's not. If you don't like the United States honoring a request to help an ally, that's your problem. Would you like the numbers for the Australian Consulate to voice your displeasure of asking the U.S. to personally use your money to help them out? I'm sure they would be interested to hear your complaint.


I'm pretty sure the coast guard's main objective is to free the chinese ice breaker that is trapped. The russian research vessel is secondary.

The Australian people don;t care what I say personally. I've been rescuing the world since 1992 when I got my first job.

What I would like is the Australian government to send me a personal apology for borrowing my resources and a promise to plan a better and safer expedition in a hundred years.

Member Since: November 1, 2006 Posts: 71 Comments: 20135
653. barbamz
3:41 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 652. Neapolitan:
There was a float that worked fine in preview, but messed with the comment margins when posted. I removed it immediately; you must have clicked in during the ten seconds or so it was up before I could edit...


It's messing up the blog? Pity! I've just copied the code and tried to adapt it to my blog. And it was working fine. Now I'll have to remove it too :-(
Member Since: October 25, 2008 Posts: 51 Comments: 5620
652. Neapolitan
3:38 PM GMT on January 05, 2014
Quoting 642. yoboi:
640


You need to repost your comment....it's messing up the blog


edit never mind you fixed it..
There was a float that worked fine in preview, but messed with the comment margins when posted. I removed it immediately; you must have clicked in during the ten seconds or so it was up before I could edit...
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13455

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About RickyRood

I'm a professor at U Michigan and lead a course on climate change problem solving. These articles often come from and contribute to the course.

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