Next century's most important place in the world--Greenland?

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 1:58 PM GMT on December 21, 2007

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If one had to pick the region of the world most likely to influence the course of human history this century, the Middle East would be the obvious choice, due to its political volatility and rich oil resources. However, the Middle East may have a significant challenger next century from a seemingly unlikely place--Greenland. Why Greenland? Well, the Greenland ice sheet holds enough water to raise global sea level 7 meters (23 feet). There are worrisome signs that the ice sheet might be more vulnerable than we thought to significant melting near the end of the century, according to research results presented at last week's annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in San Francisco. The meeting is the world's largest annual gathering of climate change scientists.

For climate change scientists, Greenland is clearly the most important place in the world. You could tell this by the way glaciers with unpronounceable names like "Kangerdlugssuaq" rolled off their tongues in a smooth, practiced manner at talks given at the AGU meeting. At least 120 presentations focused on the Arctic or Greenland, and fully 52 of these concerned Greenland. I attended roughly 20 of these talks, and most of the presenters made it clear that they were quite concerned about the future of Arctic sea ice and the Greenland ice sheet, particularly in light of the astounding Arctic sea ice melt that occurred in 2007. A number of these talks raised the possibility that we've reached a tipping point in the Arctic. A complete loss of summertime sea ice may occur between 2013 and 2040, three of the presenters said, with the resulting warming dooming the Greenland ice sheet to a slow but inevitable melting process over a period of centuries. None of the presenters expressed the view that the current melting of the Greenland ice sheet and Arctic sea ice was due to a natural cycle that would completely halt or reverse in the next few years or decades.

At a talk on "The Recent Arctic Warm Period", Dr. Jim Overland, an Arctic expert with NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory, didn't offer his view on whether a tipping point had been reached. Instead, he asked the audience to vote. The options he presented:

* A The melt back of Arctic sea ice observed in 2007 is permanent and will not lessen.
* B Ice coverage will partially recover but continue to decrease.
* C The ice would recover to 1980s levels but then continue to decline over the coming century.

Both Options A and B had audience support, but only one brave soul voted for the most conservative option C.


Figure 1. A research submarine breaks through the Arctic ice. Image credit: Bernard Coakley.

The latest news from Greenland
I was amazed see the tremendous breadth and intensity of research efforts focused on Greenland and the Arctic, presented at AGU. Extra funding has been given to research efforts as part of the International Polar Year (IPY) program, scheduled to run March 2007 through 2009. Satellites like Icesat and GRACE measure the extent of Greenland's ice from above, aided by a fleet of small and large research aircraft. Scientists now have unmanned aircraft that can use runways or be launched by slingshot that can measure the extent of Greenland's melt water lakes. The air armada will be joined next year by the Total Pole Airship, the first blimp used for Arctic studies. Manned and unmanned submarines measure the thickness of the sea ice surrounding the island, and both permanent and temporary bases dotted across Greenland and the polar sea ice house scientists doing land-based studies. Ships and buoys also add data from the ocean areas.

A short list of the results presented at AGU all point to an ice sheet in peril:

- Melting of snow above 2000 meters elevation on Greenland reached a new record in 2007 (Tedesco, 2007).

- Leigh Stearns of the University of Maine's Climate Change Institute showed that the contribution of Greenland melting to global sea level rise has doubled in the last five years. According to the 2007 IPCC report (see Figure 4.18), Greenland may account for as much as 10% of the total global annual sea rise of about 3-4 mm/year (approximately 1.5 inches per decade).

- Sea Surface Temperatures (SSTs) have warmed over 5° C (9° F) over the waters west of Greenland since 1990 (Figure 1, to the right). This has caused the ice-free season to increase by over 60 days per year along the coast.

- The Greenland ice sheet has experienced conditions as warm as those today in the past. Lowell et al. (2007) found organic remains in eastern Greenland that had just been exposed by melting ice, and dated these remains at between A.D. 800 to 1014. Thus, this portion of Greenland was ice-free about 1000 years ago, and temperatures were presumably similar to today's. Erik the Red took advantage of this warm period to establish the first Norse settlements in Greenland around 950 A.D. However, the climate cooled after 1200 A.D., and the Norse settlements disappeared by 1550.

For more information, see our new Greenland feature on our expanding climate change page.

Jeff Masters

References
Lowell, T.V., et al., 2007, Organic Remains from the Istorvet Ice Cap, Liverpool Land, East Greenland: A Record of Late Holocene Climate Change,, Eos Trans. AGU, 88(52), Fall Meet. Suppl., Abstract C13A-04.

Stearns, L.A., and G.S. Hamilton, 2007, New States of Behavior: Current Status of Outlet Glaciers in Southeast Greenland and the Potential for Similar Changes Elsewhere, Eos Trans. AGU, 88(52), Fall Meet. Suppl., Abstract C13A-06.

Tedesco, M., "A New Record in 2007 for Melting in Greenland," EOS, 88:39, 2007, 383.

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244. sebastianjer
10:41 PM EST on December 21, 2007
By the way, I have asked this before, I can't find the answer, how many countries decreased CO2 emissions in 2006? If anyone knows or knows where to look I'd appreciate it.

Thanks
JER
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243. sebastianjer
10:35 PM EST on December 21, 2007
it indicates warm conditons at this latitude at the time of Norse colonization of Greenland.

from abstract above in Dr. M's post

Link


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242. jpritch
3:34 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
"Note: The Petition Project has no funding from energy industries or other parties with special financial interests in the "global warming" debate. Funding for the project comes entirely from private non-tax deductible donations by interested individuals.

the Petitioner list of names on left hand side of page in alphabetical order"

Oh good grief. My neighbor's cat and three children signed that petition, just to see if they'd check. They didn't.
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241. sebastianjer
10:30 PM EST on December 21, 2007
I hope you are right MLC, but I don't think so. It will be a long time until reality sets in, if ever. Look at post 228, most people believe that is a result of man made GW. We live in an environment of blame, nothing is natural something or someone has to be blamed for everything. AGW is the perfect villain, big oil, corporate greed, right wing fascism, it's the perfect excuse for all that ails you, lol.
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240. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
3:22 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
it is what it is what it is it is
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239. moonlightcowboy
3:26 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
Or course, the Doctor's posts are always informative; but, I like Ricky's blog as it has at least lately, been quite a repository for information and critical thinking. The Doctor's blog has to move back and forth with the weather. Maybe, the new deal they're planning will be interesting! I look forward to seeing how it unfolds!
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29610
238. AlanJackson
3:19 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
My concern, as a practicing scientist, is that we are, as a group, way too conservative. For example - what if the increased meltwater flowing below Greenland's glaciers causes them to accelerate (some of which is already seen) and catastrophically fail into the ocean? We have a *very* poor understanding of glacier dynamics, and none of the sea level predictions take into account that you could drop large quantities of ice into the Atlantic - they only consider the meltwater.
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237. moonlightcowboy
3:08 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
LOL, Jer! I think the science is finally in on ACO2 and it was either just a figment of Gore's imagination or his well thought out "get rich" marketing plan! I think we know which it is! Each day it seems something comes out exonerating the scientists who stuck with real science and the skeptics who believe them.

Unfortunately, the hype and hysteria has put us on a new and unique path costing much already. If indeed we are going through a warming(or cooling) trend from natural cycles maybe at least the hype will have made us more aware and the phases of adaptation may be more acutely reasoned and pursued.
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29610
236. sebastianjer
10:06 PM EST on December 21, 2007
I guess Dr. M brought the AGW debate over to his blog, lol
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235. moonlightcowboy
2:59 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
232. mobal 2:41 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007


Thanks, Mobal! I look forward to reading them all! You may have seen this, too; but, I think it warrants reposting.

19,000 scientists including a former president of the National Academy of Science!!!



Global Warming Petition

We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.

This petition has been signed by over 19,000 American scientists.
- most of which have advanced degrees.

--------------------------------

Letter from Frederick Seitz
Research Review of Global Warming Evidence

Enclosed is a twelve-page review of information on the subject of "global warming," a petition in the form of a reply card, and a return envelope. Please consider these materials carefully.

The United States is very close to adopting an international agreement that would ration the use of energy and of technologies that depend upon coal, oil, and natural gas and some other organic compounds.

This treaty is, in our opinion, based upon flawed ideas. Research data on climate change do not show that human use of hydrocarbons is harmful. To the contrary, there is good evidence that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is environmentally helpful.

Click here to see the rest of this letter from the past president of the National Academy of Sciences.

Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide

A review of the research literature concerning the environmental consequences of increased levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide leads to the conclusion that increases during the 20th Century have produced no deleterious effects upon global weather, climate, or temperature. Increased carbon dioxide has, however, markedly increased plant growth rates. Predictions of harmful climatic effects due to future increases in minor greenhouse gases like CO2 are in error and do not conform to current experimental knowledge.

Click here to see this peer reviewed research paper.

Note: The Petition Project has no funding from energy industries or other parties with special financial interests in the "global warming" debate. Funding for the project comes entirely from private non-tax deductible donations by interested individuals.

the Petitioner list of names on left hand side of page in alphabetical order
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29610
234. BahaHurican
8:23 PM EST on December 21, 2007
Even the success of the Bangladeshi alerts makes 2007 stand out.
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22682
233. moonlightcowboy
2:42 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
Pablo?
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29610
232. mobal
8:41 PM CST on December 21, 2007
Wow, What a report!

U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007

Jeff, Please give your thoughts!
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231. Ivansrvivr
2:09 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
The way to counteract global warming by CO2 has been sown to us by nature. Volcanoes release sulfur dioxide into atmosphere, leading to Global cooling. The problem is we don't have enough data to answer those sort of questions. The amount of data collected since 1890 isn't even a snapshot of the Earth's climate cycles. Trying to change things we don't fully understand with the Earth's climate wouldn't be much different than trying to fix a car one knows nothing about.
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230. Weather456
9:21 PM AST on December 21, 2007
Eastern Caribbean Earthquake (November 2007)

Strongest earthquake to affect the Eastern Caribbean in decades. Widespread moderate to locally severe damage reported throughout Martinique and Dominica with furthest reports of damage coming from Barbados 274 km from the epicenter where landslips caused partial collapse of apartment buildings. Felt from Puerto Rico in the north to as far as Guyana and Venezuela in the south. No tsunami warning issued due to the deep hypocenter of the earthquake.

Same Area affected by Hurricane Dean.

Weather Pic of the Year (Storm Looms over Great Plains)



Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
229. Weather456
9:20 PM AST on December 21, 2007
Gonu over the Arabian Sea (June 2007)

Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
228. Weather456
9:16 PM AST on December 21, 2007
North America Weather in 2007

2007 North American ice storm

A severe ice storm affected an extensive area of the United States, from California to New England, lasting from 12 January until 16 January 2007. Prior to the storm, North America had experienced relatively mild winter weather like Europe. However, during the late second week of January, an area of low pressure that formed in the South brought several waves of frozen precipitation over wide areas of the United States. The storm cut power from hundreds of thousands of people in several states. The storm was followed by a period of intense chill in the West of the United States, with frost damages to the California citrus fruit crops estimated to be close to a billion dollars. Areas of California that have never in recorded history experienced snow now received some for the first time.


2007 Western North American heat wave

The 2007 western North American heat wave was a record-breaking event that began in late June 2007. The heat stretched from Mexico to Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and into northwestern Ontario. The record heat has exacerbated already present record-breaking drought conditions in much of the Western U. S., allowing fires to grow to record-breaking sizes.

April 2007 storm

The Eastern United States and Canada were hit by a powerful winter storm on 13-16 April 2007 that caused widespread flooding on Long Island and elsewhere on the East Coast, hundreds of flights being canceled and damage to coastal areas. There were at least 15 fatalities. The pressure in the low pressure center was at its lowest 958 mbar, which in a tropical storm would indicate a Category 3 hurricane. A storm this powerful at this time of the year is unusual: according to a meteorologist, it is something that normally happens once in 25 years.


2007 California wildfires

The October 2007 California wildfires were a series of wildfires that began burning across Southern California on October 20. At least 1,500 homes were destroyed and over 500,000 acres (2,000 km²) of land burned from Santa Barbara County to the U.S.–Mexico border. As of October 24, 18 active fires were burning in the region. Seven people died as a direct result of the fire; 85 others were injured, including at least 61 fire fighters. Their severity was fueled by Santa Ana winds and the 2007 Western North American heat wave.


2007 Tabasco flood

The Mexican state of Tabasco was subject to heavy rain in late October and early November 2007, causing widespread flooding. As much as 80% of the state was under water. At least 20,000 people were forced to seek emergency shelter. Over 1,000,000 residents have been affected.
Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
227. Weather456
9:11 PM AST on December 21, 2007
222. JFV 9:04 PM AST on December 21, 2007
Hey guys weather wise 2007 will go down in history as a very interesting year to say the least, wouldn't anyone agree?


Yes to that...From the Apirl Northeaster to Felix to the Earthquakes.....though the Typhoon Season seemed quiet this year.
Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
226. Weather456
9:06 PM AST on December 21, 2007
221. cchsweatherman 9:02 PM AST on December 21, 2007
I don't rely on Wikipedia. It is the most corrupt reference source that I have ever come across. Got any other references.


The Navy has this:

http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/~chu/tropcycl.htm

JTWC TCFA Checklist

http://www.nlmoc.navy.mil/trg/tropical/TCFA_Checklist.htm

Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
225. ShenValleyFlyFish
8:03 PM EST on December 21, 2007
Hey JFV

Wasn't ignoreing you Just stepped away from the computer for a bit.
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223. sporteguy03
1:02 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
A little late, but thank you for your update on Greenland Dr.Masters and the Santa gift ideas in your past blog. Thank you!
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221. cchsweatherman
1:02 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
I don't rely on Wikipedia. It is the most corrupt reference source that I have ever come across. Got any other references.
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220. Weather456
8:55 PM AST on December 21, 2007
may be a storm in the Indian Ocean that I can begin to practice the skill on so that I can confirm with you that I understand the technique and apply it to my forecasting. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season and I wish your family good health and good luck into the New Year.

You will have plenty storms to practise on in the Southern Hemisphere and even Typhoons which are more closely related to hurricanes. I am looking foward to blogging with you come June 08. And remember practice makes perfect.

Also you can also try learning the TCFA (tropical cyclone formation alert). It is much simplier than the Dvorak and easy to learn. There's a page on wikipedia.
Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
218. Weather456
8:52 PM AST on December 21, 2007
214. cchsweatherman 8:51 PM AST on December 21, 2007
208. JFV 12:44 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
Hey Weatherman I'll be looking forward to your presence a lot in here, during the upcoming 08 Hurricane Season.

Now that I am understanding the Dvorak technique really well and have more knowledge on how computer models run and on storm behavior, I will be much better prepared for the next hurricane season. This is thanks to everyone like Storm, 456, Bonedog, extreme, JP, Adrian, and several others who have taught me so much this past year. Since I have learned this stuff, I have become a much more sensible and proficient amateur meteorologist and have garnered the respect of my entire community as a reliable source for weather forecasting. So, you can bet I will be here in full force next hurricane season.


Glad to be a help....Seasons Greeting to you and your family. And hope God allows us to blog together starting June 08.
Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
216. cchsweatherman
12:53 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
Hey 456,
Thank you very much for all your information that you shared with me regarding the Dvorak technique. This will help me out significantly in terms of gaining knowledge to become an efficient meteorologist in the future. I will sit down and really study this information during my winter vacation and hopefully, there may be a storm in the Indian Ocean that I can begin to practice the skill on so that I can confirm with you that I understand the technique and apply it to my forecasting. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season and I wish your family good health and good luck into the New Year.
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215. Weather456
8:46 PM AST on December 21, 2007
Pacific Storm with its little brother over the Gulf of Alaska (arrow).

Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
214. cchsweatherman
12:47 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
208. JFV 12:44 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
Hey Weatherman I'll be looking forward to your presence a lot in here, during the upcoming 08 Hurricane Season.


Now that I am understanding the Dvorak technique really well and have more knowledge on how computer models run and on storm behavior, I will be much better prepared for the next hurricane season. This is thanks to everyone like Storm, 456, Bonedog, extreme, JP, Adrian, and several others who have taught me so much this past year. Since I have learned this stuff, I have become a much more sensible and proficient amateur meteorologist and have garnered the respect of my entire community as a reliable source for weather forecasting. So, you can bet I will be here in full force next hurricane season.
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213. lindenii
12:49 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
You want to know how to lock up CO2?

Make the interior walls of commercial buildings out of wood rather than steel as is being done here in the US. How much co2 is belched into the air making steel 2x4's for those walls? How much carbon is captured in the wood used to make those walls...a bunch.

Remember your biology101? Trees convert the oxygen and carbon found in co2 releasing the oxygen back into the air and using the carbon to make its cells.

Grow more trees and shrubs and see if they capture and sequester more co2 than grass. If so, then stop growing grass and grow more trees. Bury all paper products that can't be used in a recycling program. Don't burn leaves and yard debris...turn it into compost. In so doing, you contain the carbon and slow its conversion into co2.
211. Weather456
8:29 PM AST on December 21, 2007
Deep tropical moisture in the central Pacific.

Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
209. BahaHurican
7:35 PM EST on December 21, 2007
Shen,

I'm with you on this. I drove home today past a coastal development, including about 20 condominium-style units, all built on what was a coastal marsh / swamp at the base of a range of hills. The first major hurricane we have, even the first major rainy period, is going to completely flood those homes. It's as if the people don't realize that the water will have to go somewhere! It'll run down off those little hills and right through those houses to the sea. Actually, it's just as likely to just settle there for a few days / weeks, depending on how hard it is for the water to run down past the sand dunes. What bothers me the most is that local scientists / preservationists argued against the development of this strip, but to no avail. Eventually ordinary people will pay.
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22682
206. ShenValleyFlyFish
7:30 PM EST on December 21, 2007
As of right now Climate change isn't the problem. Dams, acidification, deforestation and a myriad other human impacts are to blame for the current sorry state of affairs with regard to North American Salmnoidae. This is why at times when the GW "debate" starts up I want to run screaming for the exits. Face it folks: the way we do things now must change. We can choose how (somewhat) or let nature take its course, but the status quo isn't.
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205. cchsweatherman
12:04 AM GMT on December 22, 2007
Since it seems like very few people are on the blogs tonight, I want to say good night all and as I said before, I will be back on Wednesday, so have a very happy holiday season and may the new year bring you and your families good health and good fortune and that we may see our troops overseas come home in the new year also. God bless our troops and God bless you all.
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204. latitude25
7:00 PM EST on December 21, 2007
When the number of native trout and salmon in the American continental streams rises to historic levels I will climb off my Echo- high horse.

oops
Unfortunately, you might have to stay on that horse forever then.

The climate of this planet changes and cycles. The conditions that led up to that have changed.
It the planet continues to warm up for a bit, it's changed.
It the planet starts to cool off, it's changed.
You might have to wait until the planet bottoms out on a cooling cycle and starts warming back up to see that again.
Member Since: August 24, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 3654
203. KoritheMan
11:34 PM GMT on December 21, 2007
Good point, ShenValleyFish about the sponge. I'm impressed.
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202. KoritheMan
11:28 PM GMT on December 21, 2007
I agree with this Baha. I used to be a global warming skeptic, but I've seen (within the last week, actually) evidence that makes me believe that global warming does actually exist. But we still have no proof that it is man made. I believe we are speeding the warming up some by emitting CO2 into the atmosphere, and we need to learn to be conservative in what we do as a society.

But I'm not really seeing that happening anytime soon, since humans are simply too stubborn. But to say that this didn't happen in the past and that it is all man made is completely illogical.
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201. HIEXPRESS
5:50 PM EST on December 21, 2007
"Viewer Discretion Advised"http://www.jibjab.com/view/26353
Member Since: October 13, 2005 Posts: 4 Comments: 2156
200. ShenValleyFlyFish
5:42 PM EST on December 21, 2007
IMHO we are not dealing with an either or but a both and when it comes to climate change. The deforestation of the northern hemisphere is nearly completed. We have done our "development" wit no regulations except after the fact. It is not unreasonable for the less developed countries with populations bearly clinging to survival to demand more from the industrialized nations when global regulations are discussed. The fly in that ointment is that multinational corporations will take advantage of the situation.

When talking about pollution with children I like to use a sponge as a image. It is possible to drip water onto a sponge for a period of time without any water coming out. However when it does come out there is a moment when the amount discharged is more than the amount dripped onto it at that instant. Since the beginning of the industrial age humans have been treating the ecosystem as a sponge while cutting off pieces of it. I am not qualified to even guess what will happen when we reach the critical tipping point but I do predict it wouldn't be pretty.

When the number of native trout and salmon in the American continental streams rises to historic levels I will climb off my Echo- high horse.
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199. BahaHurican
6:13 PM EST on December 21, 2007
Merry Christmas, and a happy Junkanoo season, to all!

Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22682
198. BahaHurican
5:52 PM EST on December 21, 2007
Vor,

I'm not taking about the science as my second reason; I'm talking about the hype. Simply put, why spend billions to prevent a global warming trend that is naturally occuring? OTOH, why allow the world to warm out of all bearing when we can do something about it?

I'm saying POLICY decisions (not science) can be influenced by whether we feel we can do something about what's happening. I just think we need more data.

Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22682
196. BahaHurican
5:32 PM EST on December 21, 2007
I also find it ironic that so many of the critics of the Indonesians and Brazilians who are cutting down their forests are descendents of people who cut down every tree in sight, just because. There was no sense even 150 years ago in the US and countries like it that they were eradicating FINITE resources. Witness the extinction of species that took place in the 1800s, and you will see the beginning of the trend in the Amazon.

To put it another way, our crisis globally might not be so great if greedy espansionists world-wide had not viewed the world simply as a gold mine. People with alternative world views (I'm thinking in particular about groups like those AmerIndians whose world view said that the earth was to be respected and conserved) were dismissed as primitives and ignored. Where are the great forests of the northern hemisphere today? How much has their disappearance had to do with the global warming we are experiencing today?

I agree with those who are suggesting we do the little things today, like planting trees instead of paving parking lots. It's just too easy, and not necessarily productive, to sit back in your global-warming-inducing lap of luxury and criticize the poor people who are massacring their forests for the sake of western-style "progress".

My point (same as all day): this (the need to conserve the earth, that is) is not a situation that developed overnight; more study needs to take place, because it's not going away overnight either.
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22682
195. surfmom
10:34 PM GMT on December 21, 2007
off to the kitchen to be domestic - grrrr - nice evening all
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194. surfmom
10:31 PM GMT on December 21, 2007
keeperofthegate - good comment but OUCH!!
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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