Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

QuikSCAT science at yesterday's hearing
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 8:22 PM GMT on July 20, 2007 +3
Dr. Robert Atlas, director of the NOAA Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory--the parent organiztion of NOAA's Hurricane Research Division--testified at yesterday's Congressional hearing, on the science of QuikSCAT. In his written testimony, Dr. Atlas presented a good summary of QuikSCAT science:

There are three studies that address the potential degradation to computer hurricane forecasts that might result from the loss of QuikSCAT. Each of these studies has limitations that prevent definitive conclusions, and additional studies are needed. In my opinion, the preponderance of evidence from the three studies indicates that computer model forecasts of landfalling hurricanes, especially in the 2-5-day time range, could be degraded if we do not mitigate the loss effectively. Forecasters at the NHC are able to improve upon the computer forecasts, so that the potential degradation can be diminished. This is especially true as the storms are approaching land in the shorter time ranges. In addition, NOAA has recently developed an effective mitigation plan that would make substantial use of other satellites as well as enhanced aircraft observations.

I was pleased to see Dr. Atlas mentioning many of the uncertainties I've been drawing attention to. In his verbal comments, he offered a theory as to why the study done using the Navy NOGAPS model showed little effect of QuikSCAT on hurricane track forecasts. The NOGAPS model inserts a "bogus" vortex where a tropical cyclone exists, and this bogus vortex is resistant to modification by winds from QuikSCAT. The GFS model, used in the QuikSCAT study Bill Proenza cited, does not do vortex bogusing.

Dr. Atlas was not questioned about the uncertainties of QuikSCAT's impact on hurricane track forecasts, which surprised me. The general consensus among Congress members seemed to be that QuikSCAT was a valuable enough satellite that it deserved to be replaced, regardless of whether Mr. Proenza exaggerated its importance or not. No one talked about the need to cut any hurricane funding to pay for QuikSCAT, and a number of Congressmen thought we should be spending more. Congressman Ehlers (R-Michigan) said, "I think we have given short shrift to NOAA and its satellite program, considering how much is spent on the satellite programs for the Department of Defense, Global Positioning System, and NASA."

QuikSCAT science in the independent panel's report
The independent panel sent by NOAA to investigate management problems at the National Hurricane Center talked extensively about QuikSCAT (Attachment 9 of the written testimony of the administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Conrad Lautenbacher). The report said that mistrust of Bill Proenza by the staff was, in part, caused by disagreements about the science of QuikSCAT:

"Statements by the director about the limited lifetime of the QuikSCAT satellite and the resulting impact on forecasts--made without context or caveat--raised public doubt about the center's ability to perform its mission and distracted center staff from doing their jobs."
And: One senior hurricane specialist noted that the director repeatedly quoted him out of context about the potential impact of QuikSCAT's loss even after the director was told that he was in error.

Had I been a senior forecaster at the NHC, I would have raised the same issues, and spoken out against the misrepresentation of the QuikSCAT science that occurred. The director of the NHC must be honest with the uncertainties in the science if he is to be entrusted with the most important job in weather.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Politics
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401. hurricane23 3:24 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
With the approaching cold front i suspect anything the forms in the area will likely remain out to sea.
Member Since: May 14, 2006 Posts: 8 Comments: 13274
402. Patrap 3:25 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
The front has really pushed thru the Northern GOM..and the N winds are just delicious.Humidity way down.Another East coast trof..that may spin up off the Carolinas.a much awaited invest.Maybe by tomorrow.

Link
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
404. Patrap 3:27 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Glad you enjoyed your stay weathers4me.We much appreciate your coming and enjoying.Today is Magnificent here.
Yes..July has its aft boomers..LOL
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
405. CJ5 3:30 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
The wave at 18/13 has some good rotation, is north of the ITCZ, moving into an area of limited shear and moist air. Of course, right now that could be said about all of these waves of late, inlcuding 96L. The super dry air that seemed to clear out (somewhat) last week in the CATL has returned.
Member Since: July 4, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 1709
406. Patrap 3:30 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
The Waterspout Thursday for those who missed it here,...Link
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
407. KYhomeboy 3:31 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
I know the NAM hasn't quite hit anything on the spot so far this season...lol (understatement). But if you look at the area that just came of of south america...there is heavy convection firing up...and it looks like some sort of circulation near that. Looks like thats what the NAM might be picking up. But again...the models haven't been doing so hot!
408. weathers4me 3:31 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Patrap. The people were all very nice and the Sheraton was beautiful. Lost my shirt at Harra's casino, and had some Bubba Gump shrimp. What a good "adult" weekend without the kids. For all those who give NO a bad rap. Shame on you..
Member Since: May 24, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 112
409. Patrap 3:39 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
It aint what the naysayers write,for most of them have never been . The Sheraton is a FAv of ours.We stayed in Nov 05 up on the club level for a weekend just to get outta the trailer for a weekend.Loved it.A tourist in ones own city. Really nice to here from a wu-member whos seen. Thanks again..and GO Saints!
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
410. RM706 3:40 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Wow. I've been lurking for a year now and I have to wonder if Pat and SK are best friends IRL.

I grew up in Texas chasing tornados out in fields in the middle of nowhere with my friends. Seems to me that anyone who is passionate about weather feels they have some Native American in them wanting to share thier unique gift with the world...hehe

But seriously, I have enjoyed Pat and SK and I can respect them both along with many others here. I hae wanted to share my forecasts, Satelite opinions and whatknot (pun) but I feel too much of a newb when it cames to this fancy technology.

I still chase tornados here in NE Florida and have on occasion taken a coworker out to show them a tornado as it forms and touches down. Yes I have been lucky it that regard.

FYI, I am a horrible speller and proof reader so please bare with me. And if I get flamed, I will not likely post often. I suffer from similar things as SK demonstrates...LOL (sorry SK)

I try really hard to not over use CAPS but like SK, it gets away form me. I hope NOT to offend ANYONE (lol).

Looking forward to getting to know you guys and hopefully you will be interested in getting to know me.

As far as I can tell I am the boards only Bubblehead (submariner;fast attack) so I will sign as...

-Bubblehead
Member Since: May 30, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 225
411. hurricane23 3:41 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
000
NOUS42 KNHC 211400
WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE FLIGHTS
CARCAH, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER, MIAMI, FL.
1000 AM EDT SAT 21 JULY 2007
SUBJECT: TROPICAL CYCLONE PLAN OF THE DAY (TCPOD)
VALID 22/1100Z TO 23/1100Z JULY 2007
TCPOD NUMBER.....07-059 (CORRECTED TAKE OFF TIME)

I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. SUSPECT AREA.
FLIGHT ONE

A. 22/1800Z
B. AFXXX 01DDA INVEST
C. 22/1300Z
D. 32.0N 64.0W
E. 18Z 21Z
F. 1500 FT

FLIGHT TWO
A. 23/0600Z
B. AFXXX 0203A CYCLONE
C. 23/0100Z
D. 35.0N 64.5W
F. 05Z 09Z
G. SFC 10,000 FT

2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY: NEGATIVE.

II.PACIFIC REQUIREMENTS
1. NEGATIVE RECONNAISSANCE REQUIREMENTS.
2. SUCCEEDING DAY OUTLOOK.....NEGATIVE.
SMR


An invest will likely be tagged on this area later this afternoon but as i stated a track out to sea looks like a good bet with the approaching cold front.
Member Since: May 14, 2006 Posts: 8 Comments: 13274
412. IKE 3:44 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Posted By: KYhomeboy at 10:31 AM CDT on July 21, 2007.
I know the NAM hasn't quite hit anything on the spot so far this season...lol (understatement). But if you look at the area that just came of of south america...there is heavy convection firing up...and it looks like some sort of circulation near that. Looks like thats what the NAM might be picking up. But again...the models haven't been doing so hot!


I agree about the NAM.

I see an area north of Puerto Rico + one coming off of South America...on water vapor loop...

Link
Member Since: June 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37044
414. Patrap 3:46 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Its all good..SK and I respect our weird ways ,,to a point.We all in this game together. Its best we give and take.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
415. Patrap 3:59 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Our friend and fellow wu-blogger sandcrab is going to be BarometerBobs guest this week. Check out the broadcast and interview this Thursday night at 8pmEST. Link

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
416. hcubed 4:00 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
"Posted By: stormkat at 9:11 AM CDT on July 21, 2007.

i would be happy to share them with you growcartmazart....i for one do not use computers i think they are the biggest waste of time during hurricane season especially for GOM STORMS...THE REASON WHY I USE CAPS IS TO GET MY POINT ACROSS..."


And the reason I use the ignore key is to get MY point across (notice the appropriate use of the caps key...)
Member Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 285 Comments: 1638
417. katadman 4:06 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Good morning, all. Is anyone talking about the weather today?
Member Since: September 7, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 1081
418. marlinsfan1 4:08 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Man I live south of miami,and it looks like its going to be a very stormy day. We are under a severe thunderstorm watch till 9 p.m.
419. weathersp 4:16 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. SUSPECT AREA.
FLIGHT ONE
A. 22/1800Z
B. AFXXX 01DDA INVEST


YAY! I GET TO USE MY NEW HURRICANE HUNTER FLIGHT AND DATA TRACKER!
Member Since: January 14, 2007 Posts: 17 Comments: 4112
420. BahaHurican 4:17 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
G'day, all!

Currently in Nassau we have rain (started about 20 minutes ago). I'm assuming this is prefrontal. Hopefully this will pass and push whatever is hanging around that ULL off to the east or north . . .
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 17588
422. StormJunkie 4:19 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Member Since: August 17, 2005 Posts: 26 Comments: 15218
423. nolesjeff 4:22 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
new blogLink
Member Since: June 20, 2006 Posts: 9 Comments: 1391
424. Murko 4:26 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Baha, we just had about 40 mins rain, and one rumble of thunder in North Eleuthera, too. I don't think the blob skirting Grand Bahama will make it this far. Is the general weather moving up from the south for us? If so, probably just some local moisture. The water in front of my house is over 105ºF.
Member Since: July 13, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 127
425. sonofagunn 4:29 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
marlinsfan1 - we are under the same watch until 9 up here in Tampa. The whole area is. I guess they suspect lots of blowups over the entire state as this front pushes through.
Member Since: June 12, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 120
426. weathersp 5:25 PM GMT on July 21, 2007    
Sure Storm... Basically it is a free program that uses Google earth to track the hurricane hunter's flight path then when the HH's send data back through there vortex messages then it gets translated from the program and pop's up in Google earth so you can see where they are and the data they are sending back.. I will post a screenshot when they are in flight today.
Member Since: January 14, 2007 Posts: 17 Comments: 4112
427. Patrap 3:35 PM GMT on July 22, 2007    
N Atlantic Imagery..Link
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
428. AllAtSea 1:36 AM GMT on July 27, 2007    
I am at a loss to understand the criticism of Proenza on QuickSCAT.
1) QuickSCAT makes hurricane forecasts more accurate.
2) Risking lives sending in more planes because we can not find the money to replace QuickSCAT is immoral! Have you read Master's description of how he almost lost his life on such a flight?
3) All the discussion of public confidence in the NHC sounds like hollow PR positioning to me. Is there really any doubt that the forecasts are better with QuickSCAT? Lets look more at reality and less at public perceptions.
4) Other weather forecasters need QuickSCAT. Proenza knows that from his previous jobs. Pacific tropical storm forecasters need QuickSCAT and can't replace it with more plane flights.
5) Just to inject some politics, we are spending hundreds of billions on a PR job of a war in Iraq, billions in tax breaks for the wealthy, and can't afford to replace a single aging weather satellite? Give me a break!

Full disclosure: I am living on my boat in the Caribbean and the forecasters I use refer to QuickSCAT data daily and would have no alternative data available should it fail.

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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