Transcript of the NHC press conference; QuikSCAT science

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 8:27 PM GMT on July 06, 2007

Share this Blog
5
+

The National Hurricane Center political controversy continues today. In an Associated Press story released this morning, Senior Hurricane Specialist James Franklin of the National Hurricane Center commented on Bill Proenza's QuikSCAT claims, saying:

"He has been very loudly saying if it failed our forecasts for landfalling storms would be degraded, that warning areas would need to be expanded. None of that is the case, and he knows that we feel that way. The science is not there to back up the claims that he's making."

This was the same case I made in my blog yesterday. However, in comments published in the Miami Herald today, Dr. Bob Atlas, a QuikSCAT scientist who runs NOAA's Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory on Virginia Key, rose to defend Proenza. To quote from the Herald:

He said the report challenged by Masters, even if not yet published, appears to be a "rigorous study" that provides the "most comprehensive study of QuikSCAT data related to hurricane predictions."

Atlas said nothing he has heard Proenza say about QuikSCAT has made him wince, though Atlas added that NOAA is developing ways to mitigate the loss of QuikSCAT data.

In addition, he said, Proenza's estimates of 16 percent and 10 percent have been misunderstood: They apply to the accuracy of one of many computerized forecast models rather than actual, end-result predictions by hurricane forecasters.

"Bill's worked very hard and very well to position the hurricane center to interact well with researchers," Atlas said.


Dr. Atlas was mis-quoted by Time Magazine, who printed this:

Bob Atlas, director of NOAA's Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory in Miami, insist that Proenza's concerns "are very well founded. QuickScat is the most valuable forecasting tool." Atlas says he applauds Proenza's outspokenness, predicting it will "accelerate the effort to replace QuickScat with an even better scatterometer satellite."

I talked with Dr. Atlas this morning, and what he actually said is that "NCEP's Ocean Prediction Center (OPC) have referred to QuikSCAT as the most valuable tool they have." OPC issues the high seas marine forecasts and warnings for the North Atlantic and North Pacific. Dr. Atlas did not say QuickSCAT is the most valuable forecasting tool for hurricane forecasting which it is not. Dr. Atlas and I both agree on what the science says about QuikSCAT. I respect his support for Proenza, and hope that Proenza's superiors in Washington take into account all the facts in the case. I did my best to present what I know of the science in my blog yesterday. No one knows the full story of what's going on at NHC, but this morning's press conference, done by staff members at NHC who oppose Proenza, will help clarify things. A transcript was sent to me by WTVJ, the NBC Station in Miami.

Transcript of this morning's press conference

Senior Hurricane Specialist James Franklin
We have been a family here, we are a small group of about 50 people. When things are really happening, we've got a Katrina out there or a Rita type of storms, everybody needs to stop what they're doing and pull together and make sure our message gets out and that we're doing the best job that we can to make the best forecast. We've got a lot of people pulling together to do that. That takes a certain amount of teamwork and appreciation of sense of family and he's destroying that, he's destroying that.

He's divided the staff, and it's hard to know how we're going to be able to come together with him here. One thing that happened yesterday when the staff met, and talked about these issues and a lot of people learned for the first time about some of the issues going on yesterday, and that brought a lot of the staff together. You saw a number of people speaking out both in terms of 3 to 23 yesterday. We found out what was really going on here. and I think you're going to see more later on.

I was very very gratified, we had a wonderful meeting with staff, including those who have been prior supporters of Bill. And we're learning a lot of things for the very first time. There we're a number of people who agreed with us, didn't like the idea of going to the press, but felt he needed to go, there are a fair number of people who didn't sign the letter for that reason. They wanted to keep it in house, and I certainly understand that. About 70-percent of the people who were in the discussion yesterday, put their names on the paper.

I think we've learned an awful lot about Bill here, during the last six months that maybe we didn't know.

We would have liked to have seen Bill realize that he didn't have the support of the staff and step down. That's not going to happen apparently. The process, the Dept. of Commerce process, I imagine needs to go forward. I think it would be nice if they could take him out of the office while that process goes on, those are not decisions we can make.

Lixion Avila-Senior Hurricane Forecaster
-Been here longer than any other forecaster
-Worked for 5-hurricane directors

I was Bill's stronger supporter, I went with him to the Caribbean with the hurricane hunter plane. To develop the hurricane hunter plan, like I did with all the directors. And I'm very upset (loud truck drives by) that he's been misrepresenting the views of the National Hurricane Center, and the hurricane plan. That plan was developed by the previous five hurricane directors, it's a jewel, it's the best in the world and it's been something that Neil Frank, Bob Sheets and Jerry Jarrel and developed for 20-years in six months he wants to destroy that plan.

For example he, I'm a scientist not a manager, and I don't know anything about management, but I can tell you that he came to my office telling me that he wants my advice, that he can not work here if he doesn't hear my advice.. very helpful with the previous directors, and he asked me, and I said the first thing you need to do is quit talking about that QuikSCAT and tell him that is out of line, will help all the problems. And he says he will do that, instead he goes back to the media, and you don't publish that you only publish the good things he said.

He said that we don't want to work with him, because he brings many good ideas, and we don't want to do that. I want you to know that he has not made a hurricane forecast since 1964.

That satellite, I gave that example to many people here. There are many things more important than that satellite. Of course I want that someone to have that satellite. The example I gave everybody is like having a BMW with leather seats. If you don't have leather seats that BMW is going to ruin, and we are going to make a very damn good forecast this year, with Bill or without Bill, and I think. I'm being very emotional, because I was his strongest supporter and I feel betrayed.

I was the last forecaster to join the group. They were smarter than me, I was giving him one more chance. Two day's ago when he came to my office and said please, what should I do to solve this problem? And I was very naive and I told him you need to stop fighting, pretending you're David against Goliath, and all those things with NOAA. The public thinks you're a hero, but you're not. You just need to develop your time and saving the hurricane program that your predecessor developed so nicely, this castle that has been done here. and he went back and said he was going to do that, he went to the media and said the opposite, and that's the end, thank you.

James Franklin
I want to say something about the QuikSCAT issue because, because that's important. The QuikSCAT satellite, is important to us, it does a lot of good things for us. We want a next generation advanced instrument, however there are a lot of things that current instrument cannot do, and by misrepresenting the case for that satellite, he has made it seem so urgent and so important. That what we're afraid of, that we'll get a quick fix, a copy of the kind of thing with existing technology. And within a couple of years we'll be in exactly the same position same situation. QuikSCAT is not a tool to help us improve track forecasts, that's how it's been misrepresented. Bill waves this NOAA report that some of my colleagues worked on and said look this is it. That report did not address track forecast accuracy, that is another one of the misrepresentations.

QuikSCAT is important to help us understand the size of the wind field, the strength, the current instrument has a lot of trouble with rain, a lot of rain in tropical cyclones. We need to move forward if we take the time develop the technology further and in a few more years get at the technology that really helps us get at the intensity problem, that's where our forecast problem really is. We've made great strides with track, as you know we're having a lot more problems with intensity, and doing the QuikSCAT problem correctly, taking our time, developing new technology is one of the tools that we need to help solve the intensity problem. But because of the way it's been portrayed we're afraid that there's going to be a quick fix that's not going to address the track problem, and it doesn't address the track problem and it isn't going to end up helping us with what the forecasters really know will help us.

We've see members of the Congress talking about how the information from the recognizance aircraft are inferior to QuikSCAT, we're afraid that somebody might get it in their heads to fund a stopgap QuikSCAT to take funds from recon aircraft. There is no comparison, there is not a forecaster here who believes QuikSCAT is more important than recon aircraft or other tools we have. But because this issue has been misreported we're afraid we might lose what we have.

We've got forecasters still back at there desks doing their jobs and they'll continue doing that. But there's a lot of people losing sleep over this, and as we get into august September, October, I don't think you want a bunch of tired sick, forecasters working the forecast desk. I think it takes a full effort. It's not just about doing our jobs, we need to go over and beyond when those storms are coming, and that's becoming harder to do.

I think when things get busy, it's going to be harder for us to work effectively with the situation we have here.

Vivian Jorge, Administrative Officer
As far as myself in the administration, since Bill got here, is the turmoil in the administration, because in my sense, bill(sat breakup) likes controversy. And I myself have been asked to do things that I know are not procedure but have been asked to do because that's the way he wants things done, and I've worked at hurricane center since 1985.

Unfortunately I think a director needs to unite his staff and he needs to be a calming person. It doesn't need to be a no new ideas. All the directors have different ideas.. from Neil on down to Max, they were different, they were not the same, their management styles were not the same, but they united the staff, the listened to the staff, especially the folks who have been here for so many years. .. and I think in the case of bill he doesn't feel that's necessary, he always feels he knows best. And that again in our case, there's never been so many closed doors, so much intrigue at the hurricane center as now and that's really unfortunate. I can't tell you how proud I am to work here.

--End of Press Conference

QuikSCAT science
Enough of politics, let's talk science! I've communicated several times over the past few weeks with Dr. Paul Chang, a NOAA QuikSCAT scientist whose QuikSCAT web page I've linked to hundreds of times in my blogs over the past two years. He did not want to comment on the politics of the QuikSCAT issue (smart man!), but did ask me print these comments:

The need for an operational ocean surface vector wind satellite system like QuikSCAT (or actually better) goes much further than the hurricane issue, and the push for it started long before Bill Proenza became the NHC director. NHC actually wants/needs something better so that it can provide them with reliable and accurate information (intensity and structure) within all hurricanes. A few other users of QuikSCAT data include: The Department of Defense's Joint Typhoon Warning Center in Pearl Harbor, which has a much larger area to forecast for. They have no Hurricane Hunter data and much less surface and upper air data to work with, and thus use QuikSCAT winds quite a bit. This is a similar situation for NOAA's Central Pacific Hurricane Center located in Hawaii. QuikSCAT has also had significant positive impacts at the Ocean Prediction Center, which issues the high seas marine forecasts and warnings for the North Atlantic and North Pacific. This has led to the introduction of a warning category for hurricane force winds for the most dangerous extratropical cyclones. I know of at least a few private marine weather companies that routinely use QuikSCAT. The Australians, French and many others use QuikSCAT routinely for tropical storm forecast/analysis, and for marine weather in general.

The track degradation impact numbers that Bill Proenza has been stating publicly come from a limited data study for the 2003 season in the Atlantic with the GFS model only. I believe Bob Atlas did some earlier work studying the impact of QuikSCAT on Hurricane Cindy using an earlier version of the NCEP global model. Both of these studies did show promising positive impacts. They are of course limited studies, and a more in-depth study is warranted.

The GFS model hurricane track forecasts are just one piece of guidance that the NHC human forecasters use to generate the official track forecast, so the impact in a particular model guidance package does not directly translate to the same impact in the actual NHC officially issued track forecast. Additionally, QuikSCAT data are also used directly by forecasters at NHC and elsewhere, but this impact tends to be more difficult to quantify.

The aircraft are a very important hurricane operational and research tool, and no one involved in the QuikSCAT follow-on effort has ever said QuikSCAT (or its successor) should or could replace the role of the hurricane aircraft flights, just as no one has said that aircraft could replace the role of satellites. They are very complementary platforms, but they fulfill different roles.


It would be a shame if in the hubbub over Bill Proenza's push to get a replacement for the QuikSCAT satellite we lose sight of what all the scientists agree on--QuikSCAT is a vital tool in weather prediction that needs to be replaced with a better satellite. Both Dr. Atlas and Dr. Chang are working on research specifically designed to study just how much impact QuikSCAT has on landfalling hurricanes in the Atlantic, which no studies have yet quantified.

Read Margie' Kieper's View From the Surface Blog for more on the QuikSCAT/Bill Proenza matter.

Jeff Masters

Reader Comments

Comments will take a few seconds to appear.

Post Your Comments

Please sign in to post comments.

or Join

Not only will you be able to leave comments on this blog, but you'll also have the ability to upload and share your photos in our Wunder Photos section.

Display: 0, 50, 100, 200 Sort: Newest First - Order Posted

Viewing: 236 - 186

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41Blog Index

236. moonlightcowboy
12:10 AM GMT on July 07, 2007
Drakoen, I'm curious. What prohibits the ULL that's about to enter the BOC from developing into a tropical sytem? Is it moisture? or what? Just not close to the surface? TIA
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29594
235. Drakoen
12:07 AM GMT on July 07, 2007
Thee is hardly any moisture in the Gulf, which is the only place i think tropical cyclogenesis can happen.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
234. moonlightcowboy
12:03 AM GMT on July 07, 2007
Drakoen, I thought we figured last nite that upper level wind shear was moot considering there's no mid-levels to build cloud tops anyway!

Upper level winds would only be a factor if indeed it started to develop...guess, it's either going to eventually run out of steam, or it runs into SA, or low level shear wipes out the remainder of the llc, or the Navy shoots a flare at it and kills it, and/or finally -- it finds a suitable area and becomes Cat 5 Chantal!!! lol
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29594
233. bobcane
12:02 AM GMT on July 07, 2007
Keep chuggin 96L. Go little fellow, go! I'm a fan.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
232. Drakoen
12:00 AM GMT on July 07, 2007
lol CJ5 i'm pretty sure it won't last tommorrow with the unfavorable upper level winds that increase as the system moves into the Caribbean. and dry air to the north.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
231. CJ5
11:03 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
lol Bob.

I decided to join after lurking for many years. I enjoy weather more than politics and it appears I joined at the right time to engage in both lol.

96L just keeps chugging, its interesting to watch. It is going into its 6th night after being diagnosed as death each day. Perhaps it is a vampire invest.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
230. Tazmanian
4:59 PM PDT on July 06, 2007
By: moonlightcowboy at 4:25 PM PDT on July 06, 2007.

Posted By: bobw999 at 11:24 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.
I say the Doctor will be the director. Who will issue the warnings?


That's easy...TAZ!!!


LOL


LOL bill
Member Since: May 21, 2006 Posts: 5091 Comments: 114728
229. Tazmanian
4:52 PM PDT on July 06, 2007
Posted By: Bamatracker at 4:19 PM PDT on July 06, 2007.

Drakeon...your up...congrats you get to sign your name to the bottom of the discussion.

Taz...call the NHC and tell them to go ahead and link their discussion page to Drakeons blog.

We will get Dr. masters to approve it before we post it...just to make sure its synopically sound.



LOL
Member Since: May 21, 2006 Posts: 5091 Comments: 114728
228. Drakoen
11:54 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
i agree the GFDL is not good with small compact systems.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
225. moonlightcowboy
11:51 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Thel, I'm not sure the GFDL ever really got started with 96. I read something somewhere (I think) that it doesn't do well unless it initializes right to begin with. Not good with small disturbances initially, etc...but, hey, I like the GFDL and it seemed to follow (coincedentally, I think) the trek I was supporting. And, I'm likely wrong and yield as you're more ex'd than me, like your posts!
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29594
224. bobw999
7:53 PM EDT on July 06, 2007
Bill Proenza fan club Link
223. CosmicEvents
11:50 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Where's STORMTOP when we need him. If you guys were the ones issuing the tropical discussions you would definitely need him to come on at the end of each one with, "And That Is Written In Stone!"
Member Since: August 3, 2005 Posts: 10 Comments: 5528
222. Drakoen
11:48 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Posted By: RL3AO at 11:46 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

It went up around midnight or 1 am when there was a huge blowup about 200 miles off the coast.


seems like 20kts of wind shear took care of that. the Low level center is exposed.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
221. thelmores
11:43 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Well, one thing that has impressed me this week, was that the GFDL was right on target with 96L....

To be honest, earlier in the week, I dismissed the GFDL, but at the end of the day, the GFDL was one of the few, if not the only model that properly predicted 96L.

Kudo's Gfdl! :)
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
220. Drakoen
11:47 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Yea i don't think this thing is tropical though. the convection building in the dinural min phase...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
219. RL3AO
6:45 PM CDT on July 06, 2007
It went up around midnight or 1 am when there was a huge blowup about 200 miles off the coast.
218. Drakoen
11:44 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Posted By: RL3AO at 11:43 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

If you are talking about the invest on floater 2, that has been there for 18 hours.



ah lol. really?? I guess i didn't notice it. I have been on that page much since 96l is dead.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
217. Drakoen
11:42 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
I don't think Max is coming out of reitrement after 34 years of NHC. Think hes had enough lol.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
216. RL3AO
6:42 PM CDT on July 06, 2007
If you are talking about the invest on floater 2, that has been there for 18 hours.
215. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
11:31 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
its the only job in the world where u can be wrong 90 percent of the time and still get payed for it being a met that is
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
214. Skyepony (Mod)
11:41 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
tampahurricane
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
212. Drakoen
11:41 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Posted By: bobw999 at 11:40 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

Don't see it Drakoen.

Look harder

Posted By: RL3AO at 11:41 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

Is it floater 2 drak?

Hint...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
211. RL3AO
6:40 PM CDT on July 06, 2007
Is it floater 2 drak?
210. bobw999
7:40 PM EDT on July 06, 2007
Don't see it Drakoen.
209. CosmicEvents
11:14 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
I wouldn't be surprised if Max came out of retirement under the circumstances to do a public service and be the head man again this season. It does seem evident that things are dysfunctional at the NHC, and this is not the time of the year to bring in someone totally new. Find somebody new in the off-season. This controversy needs to be resolved quickly, like today. The last thing we want is for this to get further politicized and have Bush and/or Rick Insane-atorium involved.
.
.
.
I don't understand the exact words from the senior forecasters either, but these are very highly qualified tropical cyclone people who are not used to the public eye. They sit in front of computers all day, like us.
Member Since: August 3, 2005 Posts: 10 Comments: 5528
207. Drakoen
11:36 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
LOL i just saw something interesting on the SSD page. Look at this page and tell me what you see. Link
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
206. bobw999
7:37 PM EDT on July 06, 2007
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
205. moonlightcowboy
11:35 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Drakoen, you sure know how to cool a crowd...lol. Maybe we should send you over to the NHC to straighten things out over there!!! lol
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29594
204. Drakoen
11:33 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
hmm i guess i stopped it all together lol.Nothing gonna form in the Atlantic basin anytime soon. only possible area is the GOM. Dry air and high wind shear covers the Caribbean and most of the Atlantic. SAL is extended from the African coast to the eastern Caribbean.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
203. moonlightcowboy
11:28 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
...hit 'em a lot, Bama! lol
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29594
202. Drakoen
11:26 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
i think we should drop this conversation even if it is a joke. Alot of people rely on this site for official information. We are just bloggers and a few Mets. The only people that should give a synopsis is a Met.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
201. Bamatracker
11:26 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
alright guys....been fun!! I'm going to take some readings from the local driving range for the atmospheric conditions in southern Alabama.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
200. stormybil
11:26 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
taz
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
199. bobw999
7:26 PM EDT on July 06, 2007
Stormkat can be the long range forecaster! LOL
198. moonlightcowboy
11:25 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Posted By: bobw999 at 11:24 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.
I say the Doctor will be the director. Who will issue the warnings?


That's easy...TAZ!!!
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29594
197. Drakoen
11:24 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
StormW is way more quailified to do a synopsis on the tropics than i am. I am just a blogger. I give my input.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
196. Bamatracker
11:22 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Posted By: StormW at 11:22 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

Posted By: Bamatracker at 11:20 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

StormW...your a real met right....congrats your now a Senior forecastor for he new NHC wunderground divison!!

I don't think it pays six digits though! (LOL)!!


StormW Come on now....this is no time to be greedy...the public needs you. LOL!!

Posted By: jeanri2000 at 11:20 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

Bamatracker at 11:14 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

SouthernLady....WE are the new NHC...alright people...we have to get a 11 est pm tropical discussion ready.

But if everyone is preparing the tropical update at 11, who is going to prepare the head on commercial.


We can get six figures if we can steal head on from TWC. Good thinking Jean! your now the executive of advertising
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
195. tampahurricane
11:24 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
can some body please post the computer modles thank you
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
194. bobw999
7:23 PM EDT on July 06, 2007
I say the Doctor will be the director. Who will issue the warnings?
192. moonlightcowboy
11:22 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Bama, Nash can do the "head-on" commercial! lol
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 184 Comments: 29594
191. bobw999
7:20 PM EDT on July 06, 2007
Who will be the director??
190. Miamiweather
11:22 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
storm you got mail
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
188. Drakoen
11:22 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Posted By: bobcane at 11:18 PM GMT on July 06, 2007.

Tropical Discussion: Nothing out there. Go back to drinking. Next update at 5AM.


LMAO.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
187. bobcane
11:19 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
Bill's latitude will change shortly jeanri2000.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
186. Drakoen
11:21 PM GMT on July 06, 2007
StormW aren't you a Met?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:

Viewing: 236 - 186

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41Blog Index

Top of Page

About

Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.