Red River Rising: a Top-Ten Fargo Flood in 4 of the Past 5 Years

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:44 PM GMT on April 29, 2013

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The Red River at Fargo, North Dakota surpassed major flood level on Sunday and continues to rise, with a peak expected Wednesday at the 9th highest flood level observed since 1897. On Friday, the President an emergency declaration for North Dakota because of the flooding, and millions of sandbags have been filled in anticipation of the huge flood. This year will be the fourth time in the past five years that Fargo has experienced a top-ten flood in recorded history. Flood stage is eighteen feet, and the Red River has now reached flood stage at Fargo for an astounding nineteen of the past twenty years, according to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Prior to this remarkable stretch of flooding (which began in 1993), the river flooded in just 29 of 90 years. The Army Corps of Engineers calculates that in the last twenty years, the Red River has had ten 1-in-10 year floods--one every two years, on average. Two of these floods (1997 and 2011) were greater than 1-in-50 year floods, and one (2009) was a 1-in-100 year flood. That year, the Red River hit a record high-water mark of nearly 41 feet, or 23 feet above flood stage. Thousands of people had to leave home for higher ground, and about 100 homes were badly damaged or rendered unlivable. This year's flood will be somewhere between a 1-in-10 year to 1-in-50 year flood. Since a 1-in-10 year flood, historically, has a 10% chance of occurring in a given year, the incidence of flooding along the Red River over the past twenty years has clearly been extraordinarily abnormal.


Figure 1. View of the Red River of the North at the Fargo gauge taken on April 24, 2013 (top) and April 29, 2013 (bottom.) The river rose from 17' on the 24th (flood stage is 18') to 31' on the 29th. Image credit: USGS.

Reasons for this year's flood: unfavorable weather conditions
The USGS cites five weather factors that can act to increase flooding along the Red River. Four out of five of these factors occurred to a significant degree this year:

1) Above-normal amounts of precipitation in the fall of the year that produce high levels of soil moisture, particularly in flat surface areas, in the basin. North Dakota had its 9th wettest fall since 1895 during 2012.

2) Freezing of saturated ground in late fall or early winter, before significant snowfall occurs, that produces a hard, deep frost that limits infiltration of runoff during snowmelt. Fargo had temperatures that hit 50°F on December 2 - 3, 2012, followed by a sudden plunge to below-freezing temperatures that began on December 7. Temperatures remained below freezing the rest of December, and this froze the saturated ground to a great depth.

3) Above-normal winter snowfall in the basin. Fargo received 68.4" of snow during the winter, which is well above the city's average of 50".

4) Above-normal precipitation during snowmelt. Fargo has received 2.06" of precipitation so far this April, compared to the average of 1.23".

5) Above-normal temperatures during snowmelt. Fargo got lucky here. High temperatures in Fargo have been above average only two days during April, on the 26th and 27th.


Figure 2. Current and forecast flood stage for the Red River of the North at Fargo, ND. The river passed major flood stage on Sunday, and is headed for a crest near 35.5' (which is 17.5' above flood stage) on Wednesday. You can access images like these using our wundermap for Fargo with the "USGS River" layer turned on. Click on the icon for USGS station 05054000, then hit the "click for graph" link.

Reasons for flooding: increased urbanization
Urbanization has had a major impact on increasing flooding not only along the Red River, but in every river basin in the U.S. Many cities and developed areas are located in flood plains next to major rivers and their tributaries. Highways, streets, parking lots, sidewalks, and buildings now cover large areas of the ground that used to absorb excess rain water and slow the rate at which run-off from precipitation and melting snow reached rivers. By developing large portions of our flood plains, run-off now reaches rivers more quickly, generating higher floods.

Reasons for flooding: building more levees and flood defenses
Defending ourselves against floods has made floods worse. Every time a new levee is built, or an old flood wall raised in height to prevent overtopping, more and more water is forced into the river bed, which raises the height of the flood. Flood waters that used to be able to spread out over their natural flood plains are now forbidden from spilling out over newly developed land in flood plains. For example, a 2010 proposed improvement to the flood defense system in Fargo could cause a 4 - 10 inch rise in floods immediately downstream from the city, according to the Army Corps of Engineers.


Figure 3. Peak flow of the Red River at Fargo, North Dakota from 1901 - 2012. Three of the top five floods since 1901 have occurred since 2009. The projected crest for 2013 would be the seventh greatest flood since 1897. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers lists the 10-year flood level for the Red River at Fargo to be 10,300 cubic feet per second (cfs), and a 50-year flood to be 22,300 cfs. A 10-year flood, historically, has a 10% chance of occurring in a given year. In the last twenty years, the Red River has had ten 10-year floods--one every two years, on average. Two of these floods (1997 and 2011) were greater than 1-in-50 year floods, and one (2009) was a 1-in-100 year flood. This year will be the fourth year out of the past five with a greater than 1-in-20 year flood. Image credit: U.S. Geological Survey.

Reasons for flooding: precipitation is increasing
Over the past century, precipitation over the Red River of the North drainage basin in Eastern North Dakota and Western Minnesota has increased by about 15%--more than any other region of the country. This fits the pattern expected by climate change models, which predict that winter and spring precipitation will increase by another 15% by the year 2100 over the Red River of the North drainage basin. As the climate warms, evaporation of moisture from the oceans increases, resulting in more water vapor in the air. According to the 2007 IPCC report, water vapor in the global atmosphere has increased by about 5% over the 20th century, and 4% since 1970. Satellite measurements (Trenberth et al., 2005) have shown a 1.3% per decade increase in water vapor over the global oceans since 1988. Santer et al. (2007) used a climate model to study the relative contribution of natural and human-caused effects on increasing water vapor, and concluded that this increase was "primarily due to human-caused increases in greenhouse gases". This was also the conclusion of Willet et al. (2007).


Figure 4. The colors on the map show annual total precipitation changes (percent) for 1991-2011 compared to the 1901-1960 average, and show wetter conditions in most areas (McRoberts and Nielsen-Gammon 2011). The bars on the graphs show average precipitation differences by decade for 1901-2011 (relative to the 1901-1960 average) for each region. The far right bar is for 2001-2011. (Figure source: NOAA NCDC/CICS-NC. Data from NOAA NCDC.) Note that precipitation over the Red River of the North drainage basin in Eastern North Dakota and Western Minnesota (outlined in red) has increased by about 15%--more than any other region of the country. Image credit: National Climate Assessment Draft, 2013.


Figure 5. Projected seasonal precipitation change for winter and spring (percent) for 2071-2099 (compared to1901-1960) as projected by the climate models used to formulate the 2013 IPCC climate change report, assuming we keep emitting heat-trapping gases like carbon dioxide to the atmosphere at current rates. Teal indicates precipitation increases, and brown, decreases. Hatched areas indicate confidence that the projected changes are large and are consistently wetter or drier. In general, areas that are wet are expected to get wetter, and areas that are dry will get drier. White areas indicate confidence that the changes are small. The Red River Valley is expected to see a precipitation increase of at least 20%, which would lead to bigger and more frequent spring floods. (Figure source: NOAA NCDC / CICS-NC. Data from CMIP5; analyzed by Michael Wehner, LBNL.) Image credit: Preliminary draft of the 2013 U.S. National Climate Assessment report.

A permanent fix for Fargo's flooding problems: a $2 billion diversion canal?
As the population continues to expand, development in flood plains and construction of new levees and flood protection systems will continue to push floods to higher heights. With global warming expected to continue and drive ever higher precipitation amounts--falling preferentially in heavy precipitation events--it is highly probable that flooding in the Red River Valley--and over most of the northern 1/3 of the U.S. where precipitation increases are likely (Figure 5)--will see higher and more frequent spring floods. With these higher and more frequent floods comes the increased risk of multi-billion dollar disasters, when a record flood event overwhelms flood defenses and inundates huge areas of developed flood plains. Obviously, we need to make smart decisions to limit development in flood plains to reduce the cost and suffering of these future flooding disasters.

A permanent fix for Fargo's flooding woes may lie in the construction of a 36-mile long canal that would steer flood waters around Fargo and neighboring Moorhead, Minnesota, according to an April 28, 2013 Associated Press article. The proposed canal could cost $2 billion and take ten years to complete, but has drawn strong opposition from farmers, homeowners and businesses who lie in the path of the proposed diversion channel. The http://www.redriverbasincommission.org/ has the latest long-term options on new flood control options for the Red River.

References
Kunkel, K. E., D. R. Easterling, K. Redmond, and K. Hubbard, 2003, "Temporal variations of extreme precipitation events in the United States: 1895.2000", Geophys. Res. Lett., 30(17), 1900, doi:10.1029/2003GL018052.

Groisman, P.Y., R.W. Knight, T.R. Karl, D.R. Easterling, B. Sun, and J.H. Lawrimore, 2004, "Contemporary Changes of the Hydrological Cycle over the Contiguous United States: Trends Derived from In Situ Observations," J. Hydrometeor., 5, 64.85.

McRoberts, D. Brent, John W. Nielsen-Gammon, 2011, "A New Homogenized Climate Division Precipitation Dataset for Analysis of Climate Variability and Climate Change," J. Appl. Meteor. Climatol., 50, 1187–1199.
doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1175/2010JAMC2626.1

Milly, P.C.D., R.T. Wetherald, K.A. Dunne, and T.L.Delworth, Increasing risk of great floods in a changing climate", Nature 415, 514-517 (31 January 2002) | doi:10.1038/415514a.

Santer, B.D., C. Mears, F. J. Wentz, K. E. Taylor, P. J. Gleckler, T. M. L. Wigley, T. P. Barnett, J. S. Boyle, W. Brüggemann, N. P. Gillett, S. A. Klein, G. A. Meehl, T. Nozawa, D. W. Pierce, P. A. Stott, W. M. Washington, and M. F. Wehner, 2007, "Identification of human-induced changes in atmospheric moisture content", PNAS 2007 104: 15248-15253.

Trenberth, K.E., J. Fasullo, and L. Smith, 2005: "Trends and variability in column-integrated atmospheric water vapor", Climate Dynamics 24, 741-758.

Willett, K.M., N.P. Gillett, P.D. Jones, and P.W. Thorne, 2007, "Attribution of observed surface humidity changes to human influence", Nature 449, 710-712 (11 October 2007) | doi:10.1038/nature06207.

Links
A good way to track the flooding event is to use our wundermap for the Red River with the USGS River layer turned on.

The Fargo Flood webpage of North Dakota State University, Fargo, has some excellent links.

I'll have a new post on Wednesday at the latest.

Jeff Masters

Fargo Flood 2009 - Elm & 15th Ave. N. (tliebenow)
Picture says it all. Clay dike built to contain the Red River in North Fargo.
Fargo Flood 2009 - Elm & 15th Ave. N.

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I see some folks predicting a busy year for hurricanes
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting wunderkidcayman:
well this is interesting


3-4% not much to get excited about.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15935
Hidey Hidey HO!
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Quoting bigwes6844:
hey kori isnt the sea surface temps to low now?


They're actually quite marginal where that convection is now. However, there are no signs of lowering pressures in the area, although some of the global models, particularly the GFS, suggest that could happen over the next 12-24 hours.
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Quoting KoritheMan:


Interestingly, looking at the 850-200 mb shear forecast on the 0z GFS, the upper tropospheric flow in the northern Gulf appears to be lighter than in the western Atlantic as the convective blob sitting in the Gulf slides underneath the axis of a broad upper level cold low into an area of slightly lower shear.

A very short-lived window though.
hey kori isnt the sea surface temps to low now?
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Quoting bigwes6844:
feels good to be back a month early before hurricane season. lets get this thing cranking this year. hows everybody doing on the night shift! im back!


Hi Wesley.
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feels good to be back a month early before hurricane season. lets get this thing cranking this year. hows everybody doing on the night shift! im back!
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


Kori, you would agree that being gay doesnt matter right? Doesn't change anything about a person. Yet when you turned on the tv all you heard about Collins. If it doesnt matter then having hour specials would have the opposite affect have intended right? Singling him out instead of just him being another basketball player.


It doesn't matter to me, but it obviously does for the vast majority of people, otherwise this wouldn't still be an issue.

Besides, to my knowledge, Collins is the first active professional athlete to espouse himself as openly homosexual. That in itself deserves a little news, I think, even if the implications of it are probably a bit exaggerated, as I said.
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Quoting KoritheMan:


That seems rather non-sequitur to me. How exactly is an athlete openly espousing himself as gay an "agenda"? The word "agenda" implies that a person is trying to perpetuate something. What exactly is being perpetuated here?

I mean, yeah, I agree with you that it's probably being a bit exaggerated, but I think you used a very poor choice of words here.


Kori, you would agree that being gay doesnt matter right? Doesn't change anything about a person. Yet when you turned on the tv all you heard about Collins. If it doesnt matter then having hour specials would have the opposite affect have intended right? Singling him out instead of just him being another basketball player.
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Member Since: July 21, 2011 Posts: 83 Comments: 7167
Member Since: July 21, 2011 Posts: 83 Comments: 7167
well whatever happens well happen anyway off to bed gnight
Member Since: June 13, 2009 Posts: 2 Comments: 12024
Quoting KoritheMan:


For what it's worth, the 18z GFS had a deeper depiction of that low after it crossed Florida and emerged into the western Atlantic in a couple of days, but it was still decidedly baroclinic.

Not a lot of model support for development, at any rate.

It's about time we start looking off Africa for signs of the first tropical wave of the year, which may or may not develop into Tropical Storm Alvin in the eastern Pacific. Certainly a better chance than anything forming into a cyclone in the Atlantic, though. At least for now.


Interestingly, looking at the 850-200 mb shear forecast on the 0z GFS, the upper tropospheric flow in the northern Gulf appears to be lighter than in the western Atlantic as the convective blob sitting in the Gulf slides underneath the axis of a broad upper level cold low into an area of slightly lower shear.

A very short-lived window though.
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Quoting wunderkidcayman:
well this is interesting



For what it's worth, the 18z GFS had a deeper depiction of that low after it crossed Florida and emerged into the western Atlantic in a couple of days, but it was still decidedly baroclinic.

Not a lot of model support for development, at any rate.

It's about time we start looking off Africa for signs of the first tropical wave of the year, which may or may not develop into Tropical Storm Alvin in the eastern Pacific. Certainly a better chance than anything forming into a cyclone in the Atlantic, though. At least for now.
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well this is interesting

Member Since: June 13, 2009 Posts: 2 Comments: 12024
Quoting IFuSAYso:
Honest pole question, why does a gay basketball player get more media coverage than a Medal of Honor Recipient?


Sports, especially professional sports, is about the last place where people have been required to pretend they were something that they aren't.

It's news because it marks progress. We're further along the path of putting prejudice and bigotry behind us.



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Quoting IFuSAYso:
Honest pole question, why does a gay basketball player get more media coverage than a Medal of Honor Recipient?
Being in gay is pretty normal I am gay but because I don`t brag it people think I am straight XD,but by your question I think that its important to the gay community as he is the first basketball player to be out of the closet I might be wrong though.
Member Since: October 15, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 4317
Quoting IFuSAYso:

I'm not anti gay, have gays in my family, but getting fed with agenda.


That seems rather non-sequitur to me. How exactly is an athlete openly espousing himself as gay an "agenda"? The word "agenda" implies that a person is trying to perpetuate something. What exactly is being perpetuated here?

I mean, yeah, I agree with you that it's probably being a bit exaggerated, but I think you used a very poor choice of words here.
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Quoting KoritheMan:


I'm gay and I don't get it either.
Quoting KoritheMan:


I'm gay and I don't get it either.

I'm not anti gay, have gays in my family, but getting fed with agenda.
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Quoting IFuSAYso:
Honest pole question, why does a gay basketball player get more media coverage than a Medal of Honor Recipient?


I'm gay and I don't get it either.
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Honest pole question, why does a gay basketball player get more media coverage than a Medal of Honor Recipient?
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West CONUS Low.



Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15935
Quoting Civicane49:
Zane's structure is beginning to degrade, thanks to northwesterly shear of 20 knots.



Looks like he's going to get sheared in half. He's no longer circular.

Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15935
Quoting ncstorm:
Do we really want to wait until a dangerous hurricane is barreling down on the US like what happened to air travel last week due to the furloughs for air traffic controllers??..

That would be a hard lesson learned..

Air traffic controllers' furloughs end


No one crashed and died unlike the 747 in Afghanistan. Get over your self.
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Zane's structure is beginning to degrade, thanks to northwesterly shear of 20 knots.

Member Since: July 21, 2011 Posts: 83 Comments: 7167
Quoting Neurospora:


I'm twice your age and remember many a spring that held on until early May with all kinds of weather mischief. Too many people mistake simple ordinary weather for climate (change).

BTW - you'll be seeing a lot more cooler springs as the earth gets colder over the next 40+ years. Try to fondly remember the warm ones of your youth as your summers shorten as you reach middle age.

Many will snipe at my comments but just hold it in your head for future and wait and see.


You can't say things will get colder without any evidence for it. But if you have it, by all means put it on display. I'm open.
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Quoting MississippiWx:
I'm totally not trying to bring up climate change with this statement, but the weather this year is just...different. I'm not sure if I recall a spring like this one, but I've only been around 25 years. It just seems like the overall pattern is atypical with large cut-off upper low pressure systems, no severe weather (compared to norm), and blizzards w/ record cold in the Plains/Midwest.

It's just odd.


I'm twice your age and remember many a spring that held on until early May with all kinds of weather mischief. Too many people mistake simple ordinary weather for climate (change).

BTW - you'll be seeing a lot more cooler springs as the earth gets colder over the next 40+ years. Try to fondly remember the warm ones of your youth as your summers shorten as you reach middle age.

Many will snipe at my comments but just hold it in your head for future and wait and see.
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937 bappit: Looks like a squall line headed south toward Yucatan with cirrus blowing off the top.

Our blob seems intent on dive-bombing Cancun insteada cracking the Tampa shield like it's s'posta
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Oh Shear,,,,, Look what you've done to Zane.

Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15935
Quoting bappit:
Looks like a squall line headed south toward Yucatan with cirrus blowing off the top.


The Yucatan is an interesting place, they actually get quite a few strong frontal convective lines for a place in the true tropics during the winter and spring. However they are truly tropical with a prolonged hot and steamy, diurnal rainy season.
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7440
Great video of Sandy at Rockaway Beach NY which is in Brooklyn. Look at the waves at 1:15.

Warning some language.

Link
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Quoting beell:
Streamlines look divergent right off the LA coast. Do I have this backwards?





Upper-Level Atmospheric Divergence

Background: Using the gridded atmospheric motion vector output u and v AMV components are averaged over the 150, 200, 250, and 300 hPa levels. Divergence is computed using finite differencing of du/dx dv/dy, where u and v are the wind components and x and y are the horizontal grid spacing. In the plots positive divergence values are shown with solid lines, negative values (convergence) are shown with dashed lines.


Quoting beell:
In the model at least, diffluence aloft over the central gom also.


No, you don't have it backwards but you didn't read my post correctly.

I was referring to the western GOM and left exit region of that jet streak over Mexico. 1900hurricane said that the left exit region of that jet streak over Mexico was providing divergence. I was pointing out that the left exit region is not always divergent, it depends on the curvature of the jet streak/stream as is the case right now.

EDIT

Quoting beell:


Beautiful graphics, Levi.

Kinda thought so, maybe. As far as that goes, the northern stream jet entrance region is a bit far north-at least in my opinion.
Looks like we're still not on the same page. I'm referring to the subtropical jet over Mexico. The jet 1900 and I are looking at is over Mexico and then curves south of the GOM, not north of it lol.
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Quoting ProgressivePulse:
Interesting area.



It's going to hopefully mess with the GOM such that - and I'm a drought-stricken Austinite - that the instability permits actual tropical activity earlyish in the season, which is when TX generally benefits from the cane season.
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935. Skyepony (Mod)
Getting daily pictures out of the North Pole now.. Today..

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934. Skyepony (Mod)
Models are scattered about the blob of moisture in the Gulf. CMC wants to rake LA, MS, AL & FL more with rain. gfs goes loose & diffuse with it over the gulf. The way it's stayed more south & together I like the GEOS-5~ rain in SMS, most of AL, shunts that moisture back to the gulf along with that storm complex that came through N Brevard & Daytona area that's off the S Carolina at the moment ~the other two pull this into it as well.. I'll go outside chance (17%) become an invest Friday & Sat before it's drug out across FL & the southeast.
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Interesting area.

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Quoting ncstorm:
Do we really want to wait until a dangerous hurricane is barreling down on the US like what happened to air travel last week due to the furloughs for air traffic controllers??..

That would be a hard lesson learned..

Air traffic controllers' furloughs end

They passed that just in time so they could fly back home themselves.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 6023
Short break from watching the Stanley Cup Playoffs to bring you this weather update:





IT STORMIN!!!
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Quoting ncstorm:
Do we really want to wait until a dangerous hurricane is barreling down on the US like what happened to air travel last week due to the furloughs for air traffic controllers??..

That would be a hard lesson learned..

Air traffic controllers' furloughs end


I certainly don't. Nor do I want to see kids kicked out of Head Start, people losing the help they need, research being halted, and all the other unnecessary stuff going on right now.

I want Congress to do their job.

Find actual waste and cut it. (Like weapons systems the military doesn't want but some Congress members insist on funding.)

Close the tax loopholes that lets a guy like Mitt Romney make millions of dollars a year and pay a lower tax rate than a school teacher or firefighter.


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929. beell
Quoting Levi32:


I think he was talking about the exit region of the jet over Mexico, not the entrance region of the jet over LA. The Mexican jet isn't terribly relevant though.



Beautiful graphics, Levi.

Kinda thought so, maybe. As far as that goes, the northern stream jet entrance region is a bit far north-at least in my opinion.
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Yeah, that left exit isn't particularly divergent now that I'm not skimming over things and looking at it in a little more detail. That right entrance sure is impressive though.
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Quoting allancalderini:
I hate heat.the only cool part of Honduras is western part near La Esperanza then the rest it feels like hell always hot.


All through Central America and the northern part of South America there are places with very pleasant climates if you get up to altitude.

The "mile high" valley that stretches from Quito to Cuenca,Ecuador, the interior highlands of Costa Rica, parts of Panama - places where the climate is "eternal spring". Never hot nor never cold. Go lower and it's hot. Go east toward the Caribbean and it's humid. Go west toward the Pacific and it's dry.

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926. etxwx
Ya'an braces as flooding season nears
By Zheng Xin ( China Daily) 2013-04-30
The residents of Ya'an, still trying to recover and rebuild from the devastating earthquake, face new challenges as the flood season arrives. The city in Sichuan province, hit by a magnitude-7 earthquake on April 20, is preparing for heavy rain from May to September. Loose debris will increase the danger of surging floodwaters and buildings already structurally weakened could topple.

The China Meteorological Administration and local authorities are also stepping up efforts to combat the spread of disease through tainted floodwater and instructing people how to cope, Chen Zhenlin, spokesman for the administration, said on Sunday. The quake killed nearly 200 people.

"Ya'an is one of the wettest places in the country with an average rainfall exceeding 1,200 millimeters (47.24 inches) from May to September, almost triple the national average," he said.

The meteorological administration has experience of dealing with rainstorms in quake-hit areas. It set up lightning protection facilities at relocation sites after the Wenchuan quake in 2008 and it is doing the same in Ya'an, Chen said. According to Tang Chuan, from the geo-hazard department at Chengdu University of Technology, Wenchuan experienced a number of landslides during the flood season and Ya'an, with traditionally heavier rainfall, is more likely to be hit.
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Quoting beell:
In the model at least, diffluence aloft over the central gom also.




I think he was talking about the exit region of the jet over Mexico, not the entrance region of the jet over LA. The Mexican jet isn't terribly relevant though.

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Looks like the azores could be dealing with flooding and tropical storm winds very soon
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922. beell
In the model at least, diffluence aloft over the central gom also.


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Goodnight since hurricane season is fast approaching I thought I would bring back a storm from the past and just show the sheer fury and catastrophe these storms bring with them. Want a hurricane to hit you? Might want to think twice about that.

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Quoting belizeit:
Guatemala city usually has nice weather i love it there to but i love Belize to you get used to the intense heat
I hate heat.the only cool part of Honduras is western part near La Esperanza then the rest it feels like hell always hot.
Member Since: October 15, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 4317
Quoting 1900hurricane:

Yeah, it appears that TWC is planning on keeping the naming lists fluid like they are in the WPac.
I prefer that way actually so we could use all the names of all the lists,maybe the NHC will try one year that way and see how it work.
Member Since: October 15, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 4317

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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