Dark Snow Project: Crowd-Source Funded Science for Greenland

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:03 PM GMT on April 26, 2013

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"There's no place on Earth that is changing faster--and no place where that change matters more--than Greenland." So said 350.org founder Bill McKibben, in a 2012 Rolling Stone magazine interview. As Earth Week 2013 draws to a close, I want to draw your attention to a unique effort to learn more about why Greenland is melting so fast--a crowd-funded research project that anyone can contribute to, which aims to answer the "burning question": How much does wildfire and industrial soot darken the ice, increasing melt? The Dark Snow Project, the first-ever Greenland expedition relying on crowd-source funding, hopes to raise $150,000 to mount a field research campaign to find out. The project is the brainchild of Dr. Jason Box, Professor at the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland (GEUS), and one of the world's leading experts on Greenland's glaciers. He has set up a website called darksnowproject.org to help raise the funds for the field campaign, and has raised about half of the needed amount as of mid-April.


Figure 1. Over the course of several years, turbulent water overflow from a large melt lake carved this 60-foot-deep (18.3 meter-deep) canyon in Greenland's Ice Sheet (note people near left edge for scale). Image credit: Ian Joughin, University of Washington.

2012: Unprecedented melting in Greenland
Watching the weather events of 2012 over Greenland made all seasoned climate watchers a little queasy. The vast ice sheet on the island holds enough water to raise global sea levels by 7.36 meters (24.15 feet) were it all to melt, and the ice melt season of 2012 gave notice that an epic melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet may be underway. According to NOAA's 2012 Arctic Report Card, the duration of melting at the surface of the ice sheet in summer 2012 was the longest since satellite observations began in 1979, and the total amount of summer melting was nearly double the previous record, set in 2010 (satellite records of melting go back to 1979.) A rare, near-ice sheet-wide surface melt event melted 97% of the surface of Greenland's ice sheet on July 11 - 12. While a similar melt event at the summit occurred 1889, but the 1889 event has no basis in the instrumental record from coastal Greenland. It's instead likely that 2012 was Greenland's warmest summer in at least 863 years, since the medieval warm period (see http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=677 and http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=725). The incredibly warm temperatures have been blamed on highly unusual atmospheric circulation and jet stream changes, which were also responsible for 2012's unusually wet summer weather in England. It would not be a surprise if this sort of summer began occurring more often, since temperatures on top of the Greenland Ice Sheet have been rising six times faster than the global average during the past twenty years. A May 2013 Geophysical Research Letters paper by McGrath et al., "Recent warming at Summit, Greenland: Global context and implications", concluded that by 2025, there is a 50% chance of ice sheet-wide melt events happening annually. The ice sheet reached its darkest value on record in 2012. The darkened surface was due to below average summer snow, soot particles from pollution and forest fires, and record melting. A darker ice sheet absorbs more solar energy, in a vicious cycle that raises temperatures, melts more ice, and further darkens the ice sheet. The amount of melting that was caused by soot from forest fires is important to know, since global warming is likely to increase the amount of forest fires in coming decades. However, the amount of forest fire soot landing on the Greenland Ice Sheet is almost completely unknown, which is why Dr. Box is determined to find out, via the Dark Snow Project.


Figure 2. Smoke from a fire in Labrador, Canada wafts over the Greenland ice sheet on June 17, 2012, as seen in this cross-section view of aerosol particles taken by NASA's CALIPSO satellite. Image credit: Dr. Jason Box, Ohio State University.

Greenland causing 25% of global sea level rise
In a landmark study published in November 2012 in Science, 47 researchers from 26 laboratories reported that the amount of ice being lost from Greenland and Antarctica has tripled since the 1990s, with Greenland contributing more than twice as much to global sea level rise than Antarctica. The study, "A Reconciled Estimate of Ice-Sheet Mass Balance", found that the two ice sheets were responsible for 20% of the global sea level rise of 3.1 mm/year during the 20-year period 1992 - 2011. The remainder of the rise was due to expansion of the water due to heating of the oceans, melting of mountain glaciers, and unsustainable pumping of ground water. Said co-author Erik Ivins of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, "The pace of ice loss from Greenland is extraordinary, with nearly a five-fold increase since the mid-1990s." As of 2011, Greenland's contribution to global sea level rise on its own had risen to 20 - 25%, according to an international research group led by the GFZ German Research Centre for Geosciences, in an article published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters on 1 June 2012. If the current exponential ice loss trends continue for the next ten years, Greenland's contribution to sea level rise will double to 1.4 mm/yr by 2022, the researchers said. Many sea level rise researchers expect global sea level to rise by about 1 meter (3.3 feet) by 2100. During the 20th century, global sea level rise was about 0.18 meters (7 inches.)


Figure 3. Monthly smoothed (purple) and unsmoothed (blue) values of the total mass lost from the Greenland Ice Sheet (in Gigatons, Gt) from measurements by the GRACE satellites between March 2002-September 2012. An approximate equivalent global sea level rise figure is on the right axis. Note that the decline in ice mass lost from Greenland is not a straight line--it is exponential, meaning that more ice loss is lost each year than in the previous year. Image credit: 2012 Arctic Report Card.

Will Antarctica be more important than Greenland for sea level rise?
Although melting from Greenland is currently raising global sea level by about a factor of two more than Antarctica melting is, that situation may change later this century. A 2013 study by Dahl-Jensen et al. looked at a new ice core drilled from the bottom-most depths of the Greenland Ice Sheet. The core suggests that the ice in Greenland may have partially survived the warm Eemian period before the Ice Age, approximately 118,000 - 126,000 years ago, when Greenland temperatures were 5- 8°C warmer than present-day temperatures. Global sea level during the Eemian was 4 - 8 meters (13 - 26 ft) higher than the present sea level, and the scientists estimated that melting from Greenland was responsible for 2 meters (6.6 ft) of this sea level rise. This implies that Antarctica was responsible for 50 - 75% of global sea level rise during the Eemian, and thus we might expect Antarctica to take over as the dominant source of sea level rise later this century, when global temperatures may to rise to levels similar to those experienced during the Eemian.

Related posts
Greenland experiences melting over 97% of its area in mid-July (July 25, 2012)
Record warmth at the top of the Greenland Ice Sheet (July 18, 2012)
Unprecedented May heat in Greenland; update on 2011 Greenland ice melt (May, 2012)
Greenland update for 2010: record melting and a massive calving event

Dr. Jason Box's blog on Greenland and the Dark Snow Project is at http://www.meltfactor.org.

The http://www.greenlandmelting.com/ website looks like a great resource for following this year's melt progression in Greenland.


Video 1. Glaciologist Dr. Jason Box and 350.org founder Bill McKibben plug the Darksnow project in this January 2013 video by Peter Sinclair. There's some impressive footage of the record Greenland snow melt of summer 2012 sweeping away a 20-ton tractor that was attempting to repair a bridge washed out by the raging Watson River on July 11, 2012 in Kangerlussauaq, Greenland. The driver escaped unharmed.

Support the Dark Snow Project
One of Dr. Box's collaborators, photographer James Balog, who created the amazing time-lapse Greenland glacier footage in the fantastic 2012 "Chasing Ice" movie, puts it like this: "Working in Greenland these past years has left me with a profound feeling of being in the middle of a decisive historic moment--the kind of moment, at least in geologic terms, that marks the grand tidal changes of history." On that note, I encourage you all to support the Dark Snow Project. Have a great weekend, everyone!

Dark Snow Project Expedition Plan 2013
Prepare and gather science equipment including a field spectrometer, snow and ice coring device, and snow metrics kit.

Travel to Iqualuit, on Baffin Island, Nunavut from home locales in California, Ohio, Michigan, Vermont and rendezvous with Dash-6 "Twin Otter" ski-equipped airplane and flight crew.

Organize cold weather survival kit.

Ferry team from Iqualuit to Kangerlussuaq, Greenland.

Fly to and land at sampling sites high on the inland ice sheet.

At each site collect snow samples from a snow pit and obtain snow cores to a minimum depth of the previous year's snow surface, and record snow properties.

Transport of team and snow samples to Greenland's capital Nuuk, where the team will rest after hustling at field sites.

Return to Iqualuit, then to respective home locales to start the data analysis and reporting phase of campaign.

Jeff Masters

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1032. Gearsts
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1031. LargoFl
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1030. LargoFl
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1029. LargoFl
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Quoting 1900hurricane:

If it comes to that, is it even worth arguing?


It depends on how reliable you want the information on this site to be.

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1027. beell
So you are of the opinion that Dr. Masters--and Dr. Rood--need non-stop denialist blather "...to validate their existence here"?

Please explain that one when you get a chance...


Nothing but respect for those gentlemen, Neap. That should be enough explaination.
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GOM




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Quoting Levi32:
981.

Nea, nothing you can say will convince anybody here that this blog is currently a positive environment the majority of the time. It isn't. Every day it's a moss pit. It's getting old and ridiculous. Something's gotta change.

There are some who disagree with AGW in such a stupid way on this blog that it is obvious they have no interest in discussing science and want to tow a political line (some advocates of AGW do the same). I believe such people should be at least temporarily banned from this blog with a warning for trying to start pointless arguments with no facts involved.

Something's gotta give guys. This is ridiculous.


Absolutely agree. Thanks Levi.

I want to be able to learn about weather and climate on this blog. My reason for coming here was not a love of watching big storms, I intentionally no longer live where those things hit.

I came here hoping to learn more about weather and how our changing climate is going to modify our weather patterns.

Are we likely to have fewer tornadoes? Will the season/zone change?

What about hurricanes? Fewer, stronger, tracking more off the east coast of the US as the ocean continues to warm?

I'd love to see this site get past the "It was really cold in ... last night and algore is fat" stuff and on to what is happening and the science of why it is happening. A mix of the weather and the physics behind the weather.
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Quoting Tropicsweatherpr:


I am looking at the PDO that has warmed a little bit.


It has warmed some, but the overall signature is still there. Instead of the high being in the Central Pacific, it is located right off the NW Coast which keeps the SST anomalies along the West Coast from being as cold.
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 17 Comments: 10159
Regarding the flooding rainfall in Houston yesterday, HGX tweeted this out earlier today.

NWSHouston %u200F@NWSHouston 9h
Houston Hobby Airport had 6.05" of rain yesterday. Oddly, this did not break the record rainfall which is 6.20" set in 1972. #houwx #txwx

And here is the area-wide precipitation accumulation map from yesterday's event. I ended up with a whopping .10" of rain. :P

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Quoting Tropicsweatherpr:


I am looking at the PDO that has warmed a little bit.


It has recently.
Member Since: July 21, 2011 Posts: 83 Comments: 7167
Quoting Civicane49:


I am looking at the PDO that has warmed a little bit.
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14009
Quoting BobChecks:


And then a CCW-denier would likely claim that the government intentionally flipped that footage to hide the fact that storms rotate in the opposite direction....


If it comes to that, is it even worth arguing?
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Quoting beell:


I'd probably post a WV loop of a CCW storm and be done with it.


And then a CCW-denier would likely claim that the government intentionally flipped that footage to hide the fact that storms rotate in the opposite direction....

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Member Since: July 21, 2011 Posts: 83 Comments: 7167
If there's any boon about the climate argument on this forum,

reading it definitely enriches your vocabulary.
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reflectivity is 12 - 20" per hour indicating instead large (golfball sized) hail maybe.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9720
...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 345 PM EDT FOR EXTREME
EAST CENTRAL HENRY AND WEST CENTRAL NEWTON COUNTIES...

AT 324 PM EDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR CONTINUED TO
INDICATE A TORNADO.
THIS TORNADO WAS LOCATED NEAR OAK HILL...MOVING
EAST AT 25 MPH.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9720
I guess it's La Nina's turn to fake us out:

Currently Anomalies:



Nino 3.4: -0.26C



Nino 1+2: -1.1C



Nino 3: -0.41C



Nino 4: -0.4C

Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 17 Comments: 10159
1013. Levi32
981.

Nea, nothing you can say will convince anybody here that this blog is currently a positive environment the majority of the time. It isn't. Every day it's a moss pit. It's getting old and ridiculous. Something's gotta change.

There are some who disagree with AGW in such a stupid way on this blog that it is obvious they have no interest in discussing science and want to tow a political line (some advocates of AGW do the same). I believe such people should be at least temporarily banned from this blog with a warning for trying to start pointless arguments with no facts involved.

Something's gotta give guys. This is ridiculous.
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Member Since: July 21, 2011 Posts: 83 Comments: 7167
Quoting ncstorm:
To correlate that GW and an approaching hurricane can be used in the same context about having to debunk someone is far fetched..If someone is on here and an approaching Cat 4 is heading for a populated city and that blogger informs the blog that the NHC says its going in another direction which is untrue, of course that person would need to be addressed and corrected as that is an immediate life and death situation, GW/Climate change from what I understood last night has decades before its plight on humanity is realized..


We are seeing an increase in the frequency of extreme weather events.

We are seeing permafrost melting which is destroying roads and buildings.

Plight on humanity is realized.
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Quoting Xulonn:
Re: Post 943 by Jedkins01...

OMG, ..........And I am fascinated by the very high level of analytical skills among the weather prognosticators here, and baffled by the inability of many of them to apply the same objective skills to their understanding of AGW/CC. If they were as inaccurate with their storm predictions, they would probably be laughed off the blog. It seems that they apply science and analysis to weather, and beliefs and emotions to AGW/CC, jumping on almost every disproven and false anti-AGW/CC denialist claptrap as if it were real science!


Xulonn,


I agree wholeheartedly with what you have just clearly stated. However, what amazes me about the "deniers of AGW/CC" is that the weather patterns they currenty understand so well are being changed rapidly by Arctic Amplification, as a result of the warming of the Arctic. They understand what a blocking pattern does to tropical systems, however refuse to understand why these blocking patterns are becoming more frequent over Greenland. While they prove their worth in prognosticating the paths and intensities of hurricanes, they rather rudely imply that Dr. Masters and Dr. Rood are fools for buying into the "Warmist Agenda."
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1009. bappit
Quoting no1der:
just dated myself :-) Ripple was a bum-wine from a few decades ago. Empty bottle of Thunderbird in a paper bag would be the current version.


Thunderbird is timeless.
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Quoting OracleDeAtlantis:
The mods. are doing their job by protecting opposing points of view.

Nothing in science is without question. Nothing ...


True. I happen to think Big Bang theory is completely wrong and have posted an alternative explanation on many science websites. I haven't been called a 'troll' because my alternative explanation is so darned good. But I have been regularly attacked by the believers.

On the subject of CO2 induced global warming, the main argument against it used to be that outgoing infrared radiation at the wavelengths intercepted by CO2 was already 'saturated', meaning that additional CO2 wouldn't have any effect.

Scientists claim that this argument has been rebutted, but I'm not in a position to know for sure whether it has, or not.

Ignoring the arguments which claim the Earth hasn't warmed, other proposals for the warming are increased solar activity and changes to the oceanic gyre which transports warm surface water down to the depths.

You can't absolutely rule out such arguments - there does seem to be some long term correlation with solar activity and warmer temperatures (although not recently), but physicists say solar activity can't explain it. However, physicists have been wrong before.

The balance of probabilities seems to me to strongly suggest greenhouse gases as the cause, but we can't be 100% certain about that.
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1007. beell
Quoting Neapolitan:
People come to this forum for many reasons, one of which is to learn. If a small but very vocal minority is allowed to run off at the mouth, spouting one bit of denialist gibberish after another while no one responds to correct their nonsense, this forum would quickly degenerate into the chaotic mess it has been at times in the past.

Now, it's clear that some don't give two hoots about climate change, so they'd actually be okay with denialist nonsense ruling the forum. So allow me to expand on a hypothetical BobChecks wrote of in #966...

Suppose every time you posted one of your very helpful "tropical tidbits" that someone felt the need to tell you that, contrary to what you said, northern hemisphere tropical cyclones do not spin counter-clockwise, but in fact spin clockwise. And suppose this person didn't just say you were wrong about that fact, but that you were a socialist and a liar for saying it. And suppose you and some other bright people took the time to patiently explain to that person that they were both mistaken--after all, there's ample concrete proof that big NH storm systems spin CCW--and out of line. And suppose that person responded by gathering a bunch of his or her equally nonsensical friends to pile on and tell you that they don't believe you or anyone else who "believes" in CCW storms, and that all the world's tropical meteorologists were in on a huge fraud, and that they could point you to websites that have secret evidence that systems spin CW that the government doesn't want you to see, because they want to take all your money or your car or your house or something. And suppose you, with less patience this time, respond to the person that he's a troublemaker and a troll, and is undeniably wrong.

Now suppose that someone responds to your irate outburst by claiming that you're "engaging in negative verbal battles that drag your tidbits into the mud day after day". Should you listen to them, and simply shut up, allowing the obvious trolls to run rampant, diluting your message? Or do you fight the good fight and keep doing your best to be sure your CCW truth is heard the above the din of the CW dimwits?

So long as there remain fake skeptics denying scientific truth, there'll be the need to counter their nonsense.So you are of the opinion that Dr. Masters--and Dr. Rood--need non-stop denialist blather "...to validate their existence here"?

Please explain that one when you get a chance...


I'd probably post a WV loop of a CCW storm and be done with it.
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Quoting MississippiWx:


This is the 7 day change in temp. There has been quite a bit of cooling along the equatorial Pacific while the MDR/Eastern Atlantic still can't decide what they want to do.



And the PDO has warmed.
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14009
1005. ncstorm
Frank Strait Fan Club
Tornado warning for Henry & Newton Co, GA, radar indicated rotation ... stay alert for later on downstream in S Walton, Morgan Co. #gawx
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Quoting Tropicsweatherpr:
MDR holding steady around +0.5C.



This is the 7 day change in temp. There has been quite a bit of cooling along the equatorial Pacific while the MDR/Eastern Atlantic still can't decide what they want to do.

Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 17 Comments: 10159
Quoting MississippiWx:


LOL. Leave it to me to point out that one part in an otherwise very well-thought and intelligent post.

:-)

I'm going to hell. I'll save you a seat, TAwx13.

Nah.
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MDR holding steady around +0.5C.

Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14009
Member Since: July 21, 2011 Posts: 83 Comments: 7167
1000. LargoFl

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR NORTHEAST FLORIDA...
SOUTHEAST GEORGIA AND THE ADJACENT COASTAL WATERS.

.DAY ONE...THIS AFTERNOON AND TONIGHT...

THERE WILL BE A MODERATE RISK OF RIP CURRENTS AT AREA BEACHES DUE
TO PERSISTENT ONSHORE WINDS AND SWELLS. FOR MAXIMUM SAFETY...CHECK
WITH LIFEGUARDS OR BEACH PATROL BEFORE ENTERING THE WATER.

ISOLATED TO SCATTERED THUNDERSTORMS ARE POSSIBLE THIS AFTERNOON
AND EVENING. THE MAIN CONCERNS WILL BE SMALL HAIL...CLOUD TO
GROUND LIGHTNING AND GUSTY WINDS. THE BEST CHANCE OF THUNDERSTORMS
WILL EXIST OVER SOUTHEAST GEORGIA. STORM MOTION WILL BE NORTHEAST
AROUND 10 TO 15 MPH.
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Quoting Jedkins01:


Oh geez, it took me a while to realize what you were getting at there, yikes!


LOL. Leave it to me to point out that one part in an otherwise very well-thought and intelligent post.

:-)

I'm going to hell. I'll save you a seat, TAwx13.
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 17 Comments: 10159
Member Since: July 21, 2011 Posts: 83 Comments: 7167
To correlate that GW and an approaching hurricane can be used in the same context about having to debunk someone is far fetched..If someone is on here and an approaching Cat 4 is heading for a populated city and that blogger informs the blog that the NHC says its going in another direction which is untrue, of course that person would need to be addressed and corrected as that is an immediate life and death situation, GW/Climate change from what I understood last night has decades before its plight on humanity is realized..
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Quoting MississippiWx:


I just LOL'd at this paragraph. I read a few parts the wrong way.

...I know, I'm a horrible person. :-D


Oh geez, it took me a while to realize what you were getting at there, yikes!
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Includes friday.... 8" inches some places
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9720
Quoting Tazmanian:



or how about this the lazey so call mods a round here can this get rid of tthe trolls this like that
The mods. are doing their job by protecting opposing points of view.

Nothing in science is without question. Nothing ...
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GAC285-281930-
/O.CON.KFFC.SV.W.0095.000000T0000Z-130428T1930Z/
TROUP GA-
300 PM EDT SUN APR 28 2013

...A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 330 PM EDT
FOR TROUP COUNTY...

AT 256 PM EDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR CONTINUED TO
INDICATE A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING GOLF BALL SIZED
HAIL...AND DAMAGING WINDS UP TO 60 MPH
. THIS STORM WAS LOCATED NEAR
LAGRANGE...MOVING EAST AT 30 MPH.

OTHER LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO BIG
SPRINGS...LOUISE...MOUNTVILLE AND HOGANSVILLE.


of course it wouldnt be over me...
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Quoting GeorgiaStormz:
another 1-3" since 8am....1-2" last night, 3-4" on friday




currently still raining.


Anyone know if there's a correlation between a wet spring in the eastern US and vertical instability in the western Atlantic?

Last two years, there's been dry summers coinciding with below average vertical instability, resulting in many tropical storms failing to intensify. Can't help thinking the two things are connected.
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Quoting BobChecks:
I'm apposed to government regulation entirely in regards to environmental action, there has to be some action taken.

Jedkins, I assume you mean "opposed".

If we don't use the power of government (which is really the power of us) what agency/power would you expect to deal with our need to transition away from fossil fuels?


I actually intended to say "I'm not opposed", I should have gone back and edited before posting :)

I did edit it now.
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990. txjac
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:
another 1-3" since 8am....1-2" last night, 3-4" on friday




currently still raining.



Nice isnt it ...we got ours yesterday.
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2" hr rain rates possible at times

Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9720
another 1-3" since 8am....1-2" last night, 3-4" on friday




currently still raining.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9720
.
Quoting ncstorm:


Xulonn..LOL..I am not part of the in crowd here..I was just ban several weeks ago..no harm done and if you felt like I was attacking you, my apologies..:)
Wel gosh darn, dag nab it, you just deflated my balloon, ncstorm.

Apology accepted and returned. I was getting pretty frustrated with you not accepting my comment on human psychology vs psychiatry and mental disease - they can be related, but are quite different from one another. Climate denialism is not a disease, unless, like other mental diseases, it progresses to the point where it interferes with someones health and function in everyday life. I haven't seen signs of that here. ;-)

And for you and Levi and the other weather geeks here, I do not respond directly to trolling posts, and have most of the trolls and hard-core false-science spouting deniers on ignore, but not those I consided unconvinced skeptics.

Also, I give you my word that I will never post about AGW/CC and climate denial psychology unless the subject of Dr. Masters blog entry is AGW/CC related.
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Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 104 Comments: 14871
Quoting Levi32:


We all ignore JFV (or try to) every year.


That doesn't strike me as an adequate answer Levi. One person posting incorrect information from time to time is different than a group of people posting on a frequent basis.

And even with only one you acknowledge that it's difficult to ignore their postings.

What would happen to the weather/storm value of this blog if the rate of incorrect posting was greatly increased?

Isn't there a point at which noise gets so high that most people would have trouble picking out the signal?
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Quoting Jedkins01:
I'm just putting in a thought since AGW is again a hot topic...

As I'm sure many veteran posters here know, I used to be outwardly very skeptical of even the existence of AGW at all. Much of that was due to the fact that my first experience with it when I was younger was Al Gore. Because of that I pretty much became hard to any consideration of it and never really did on research on it myself. However, as I got older, I began to realize the importance of not becoming hard to exploring an idea just because of a past experience.


I just LOL'd at this paragraph. I read a few parts the wrong way.

...I know, I'm a horrible person. :-D
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 17 Comments: 10159
Jedkins01, thanks very much for your thoughtful post.

Quoting Jedkins01:
Now, I still disagree with how some of the scientific community reacts to AGW. I do think there is a role in government taking action, but not to the degree some climatologists and scientists are suggesting.
Just a few thoughts on this one point you raised. Personally, I don't hear much call for action about CO2 emissions any more directly from the scientific community. That was decades ago. Currently, even at the climate sessions at AGU last Dec, the strongest call for action I heard was a lukewarm 'well... less CO2 is better than more CO2... and it *might* prevent the worst effects'.
My experience might not be well representative of the community, but mostly I find resignation, struggles with grief, bitterness about public regard for their work, hesitation to share their deeper fears, a realization that we can't possibly end fossil fuels soon enough to be effective if at all, and strong awareness that if we trip the Arctic methane bomb, the CO2 won't matter any more. 


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Quoting stormpetrol:


Think this might be a little clearer.
Hello :) When and where was this ?
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.