Dark Snow Project: Crowd-Source Funded Science for Greenland

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:03 PM GMT on April 26, 2013

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"There's no place on Earth that is changing faster--and no place where that change matters more--than Greenland." So said 350.org founder Bill McKibben, in a 2012 Rolling Stone magazine interview. As Earth Week 2013 draws to a close, I want to draw your attention to a unique effort to learn more about why Greenland is melting so fast--a crowd-funded research project that anyone can contribute to, which aims to answer the "burning question": How much does wildfire and industrial soot darken the ice, increasing melt? The Dark Snow Project, the first-ever Greenland expedition relying on crowd-source funding, hopes to raise $150,000 to mount a field research campaign to find out. The project is the brainchild of Dr. Jason Box, Professor at the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland (GEUS), and one of the world's leading experts on Greenland's glaciers. He has set up a website called darksnowproject.org to help raise the funds for the field campaign, and has raised about half of the needed amount as of mid-April.


Figure 1. Over the course of several years, turbulent water overflow from a large melt lake carved this 60-foot-deep (18.3 meter-deep) canyon in Greenland's Ice Sheet (note people near left edge for scale). Image credit: Ian Joughin, University of Washington.

2012: Unprecedented melting in Greenland
Watching the weather events of 2012 over Greenland made all seasoned climate watchers a little queasy. The vast ice sheet on the island holds enough water to raise global sea levels by 7.36 meters (24.15 feet) were it all to melt, and the ice melt season of 2012 gave notice that an epic melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet may be underway. According to NOAA's 2012 Arctic Report Card, the duration of melting at the surface of the ice sheet in summer 2012 was the longest since satellite observations began in 1979, and the total amount of summer melting was nearly double the previous record, set in 2010 (satellite records of melting go back to 1979.) A rare, near-ice sheet-wide surface melt event melted 97% of the surface of Greenland's ice sheet on July 11 - 12. While a similar melt event at the summit occurred 1889, but the 1889 event has no basis in the instrumental record from coastal Greenland. It's instead likely that 2012 was Greenland's warmest summer in at least 863 years, since the medieval warm period (see http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=677 and http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=725). The incredibly warm temperatures have been blamed on highly unusual atmospheric circulation and jet stream changes, which were also responsible for 2012's unusually wet summer weather in England. It would not be a surprise if this sort of summer began occurring more often, since temperatures on top of the Greenland Ice Sheet have been rising six times faster than the global average during the past twenty years. A May 2013 Geophysical Research Letters paper by McGrath et al., "Recent warming at Summit, Greenland: Global context and implications", concluded that by 2025, there is a 50% chance of ice sheet-wide melt events happening annually. The ice sheet reached its darkest value on record in 2012. The darkened surface was due to below average summer snow, soot particles from pollution and forest fires, and record melting. A darker ice sheet absorbs more solar energy, in a vicious cycle that raises temperatures, melts more ice, and further darkens the ice sheet. The amount of melting that was caused by soot from forest fires is important to know, since global warming is likely to increase the amount of forest fires in coming decades. However, the amount of forest fire soot landing on the Greenland Ice Sheet is almost completely unknown, which is why Dr. Box is determined to find out, via the Dark Snow Project.


Figure 2. Smoke from a fire in Labrador, Canada wafts over the Greenland ice sheet on June 17, 2012, as seen in this cross-section view of aerosol particles taken by NASA's CALIPSO satellite. Image credit: Dr. Jason Box, Ohio State University.

Greenland causing 25% of global sea level rise
In a landmark study published in November 2012 in Science, 47 researchers from 26 laboratories reported that the amount of ice being lost from Greenland and Antarctica has tripled since the 1990s, with Greenland contributing more than twice as much to global sea level rise than Antarctica. The study, "A Reconciled Estimate of Ice-Sheet Mass Balance", found that the two ice sheets were responsible for 20% of the global sea level rise of 3.1 mm/year during the 20-year period 1992 - 2011. The remainder of the rise was due to expansion of the water due to heating of the oceans, melting of mountain glaciers, and unsustainable pumping of ground water. Said co-author Erik Ivins of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, "The pace of ice loss from Greenland is extraordinary, with nearly a five-fold increase since the mid-1990s." As of 2011, Greenland's contribution to global sea level rise on its own had risen to 20 - 25%, according to an international research group led by the GFZ German Research Centre for Geosciences, in an article published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters on 1 June 2012. If the current exponential ice loss trends continue for the next ten years, Greenland's contribution to sea level rise will double to 1.4 mm/yr by 2022, the researchers said. Many sea level rise researchers expect global sea level to rise by about 1 meter (3.3 feet) by 2100. During the 20th century, global sea level rise was about 0.18 meters (7 inches.)


Figure 3. Monthly smoothed (purple) and unsmoothed (blue) values of the total mass lost from the Greenland Ice Sheet (in Gigatons, Gt) from measurements by the GRACE satellites between March 2002-September 2012. An approximate equivalent global sea level rise figure is on the right axis. Note that the decline in ice mass lost from Greenland is not a straight line--it is exponential, meaning that more ice loss is lost each year than in the previous year. Image credit: 2012 Arctic Report Card.

Will Antarctica be more important than Greenland for sea level rise?
Although melting from Greenland is currently raising global sea level by about a factor of two more than Antarctica melting is, that situation may change later this century. A 2013 study by Dahl-Jensen et al. looked at a new ice core drilled from the bottom-most depths of the Greenland Ice Sheet. The core suggests that the ice in Greenland may have partially survived the warm Eemian period before the Ice Age, approximately 118,000 - 126,000 years ago, when Greenland temperatures were 5- 8°C warmer than present-day temperatures. Global sea level during the Eemian was 4 - 8 meters (13 - 26 ft) higher than the present sea level, and the scientists estimated that melting from Greenland was responsible for 2 meters (6.6 ft) of this sea level rise. This implies that Antarctica was responsible for 50 - 75% of global sea level rise during the Eemian, and thus we might expect Antarctica to take over as the dominant source of sea level rise later this century, when global temperatures may to rise to levels similar to those experienced during the Eemian.

Related posts
Greenland experiences melting over 97% of its area in mid-July (July 25, 2012)
Record warmth at the top of the Greenland Ice Sheet (July 18, 2012)
Unprecedented May heat in Greenland; update on 2011 Greenland ice melt (May, 2012)
Greenland update for 2010: record melting and a massive calving event

Dr. Jason Box's blog on Greenland and the Dark Snow Project is at http://www.meltfactor.org.

The http://www.greenlandmelting.com/ website looks like a great resource for following this year's melt progression in Greenland.


Video 1. Glaciologist Dr. Jason Box and 350.org founder Bill McKibben plug the Darksnow project in this January 2013 video by Peter Sinclair. There's some impressive footage of the record Greenland snow melt of summer 2012 sweeping away a 20-ton tractor that was attempting to repair a bridge washed out by the raging Watson River on July 11, 2012 in Kangerlussauaq, Greenland. The driver escaped unharmed.

Support the Dark Snow Project
One of Dr. Box's collaborators, photographer James Balog, who created the amazing time-lapse Greenland glacier footage in the fantastic 2012 "Chasing Ice" movie, puts it like this: "Working in Greenland these past years has left me with a profound feeling of being in the middle of a decisive historic moment--the kind of moment, at least in geologic terms, that marks the grand tidal changes of history." On that note, I encourage you all to support the Dark Snow Project. Have a great weekend, everyone!

Dark Snow Project Expedition Plan 2013
Prepare and gather science equipment including a field spectrometer, snow and ice coring device, and snow metrics kit.

Travel to Iqualuit, on Baffin Island, Nunavut from home locales in California, Ohio, Michigan, Vermont and rendezvous with Dash-6 "Twin Otter" ski-equipped airplane and flight crew.

Organize cold weather survival kit.

Ferry team from Iqualuit to Kangerlussuaq, Greenland.

Fly to and land at sampling sites high on the inland ice sheet.

At each site collect snow samples from a snow pit and obtain snow cores to a minimum depth of the previous year's snow surface, and record snow properties.

Transport of team and snow samples to Greenland's capital Nuuk, where the team will rest after hustling at field sites.

Return to Iqualuit, then to respective home locales to start the data analysis and reporting phase of campaign.

Jeff Masters

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Watching the feature over Southern Texas..

For Larger Image Click HERE

Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
Quoting allahgore:


So it's ok if someone keeps pushing an AGW agenda? There is a word when people push only one agenda and don't allow opposing views.



Is this really the forum for this?
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880




Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
Quoting Grothar:


I know you remember my post from last week, because you corrected it. :)

Storms or depressions which formed before June

1953 - 1
1959 - 1
1969 - 1
1970 - 1
1971 - 1
1972 - 1
1974 - 1
1976 - 1
1981 - 1
1987 - 1
1988 - 1
1990 - 1
1993 - 1
2007 - 1
2008 - 1
2009 - 1
2012 - 2

Note: 2004 and 2005 the first storm to form was not until June or July.

Ana in 2003 formed in April
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
folks up on the northern gulf coast heed your warnings today ..FLASH FLOOD STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE JACKSON MS
928 AM CDT SUN APR 28 2013

MSC035-073-091-281545-
/O.CON.KJAN.FF.W.0054.000000T0000Z-130428T1545Z/
/00000.0.ER.000000T0000Z.000000T0000Z.000000T0000 Z.OO/
MARION MS-LAMAR MS-FORREST MS-
928 AM CDT SUN APR 28 2013

...A FLASH FLOOD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 1045 AM CDT FOR
NORTHWESTERN FORREST...NORTHERN LAMAR AND NORTHEASTERN MARION
COUNTIES...

AT 925 AM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR CONTINUED TO
DETECT THUNDERSTORMS PRODUCING VERY HEAVY RAIN NEAR IMPROVE...OR 10
MILES NORTHEAST OF COLUMBIA. THESE STORMS WERE MOVING NORTHEAST AT
30 MPH BUT CONTINUE TO MOVE OVER THE SAME AREA. ESTIMATED RADAR
RAINFALL AMOUNTS...ON THE ORDER OF TWO TO FOUR INCHES...HAVE
OCCURRED IN THE PAST TWO HOURS. SOME LOCALIZED AREAS IN NORTHWEST
LAMAR COUNTY SOUTHWEST OF IMPROVE MAY HAVE HAD AS MUCH AS 5 INCHES
OVER THE PAST 2 HOURS. PLEASE USE CAUTION IF IN THE AREA OF NW LAMAR
COUNTY JUST NORTH OF U.S. HIGHWAY 98.

OTHER LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO RAWLS
SPRINGS AND SUMRALL

VERY HEAVY RAINFALL WILL CONTINUE OVER THE WARNED AREA FOR THE NEXT
TWO HOURS. WITH AN ADDITIONAL ONE TO THREE INCHES POSSIBLE.
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Quoting LargoFl:
...IF this is REALLY happening..GW and ocean rising WHY arent we seeing action taken?...until i see that..i dont believe it


Easy Answer: Because people don't want them too.

This has been a repeated problem in this country when any scientific result shows that people need to "change their ways" for their own good. People don't want to. Then PR campaigns start up that try to tar and feather the science/scientists. Then these same people elect representatives, and it all goes downhill from there.

Think about it for a minute. Your question can be applied to smoking as well. When scientists first pointed out the damage that smoking caused there was a national uproar. Them damn scientists, what the hell do they know. Tobacco companies dumped millions of dollars into smear campaigns and propaganda against the science. It was a successful campaign too, as it was years before the government finally took any action.

This same pattern occurred when it came to acid rain, ozone depletion, and a number of other scientific results that basically were going to add a cost or force a change on people. Look at the problem with obesity in this country. Why isn't the government doing anything about it? YOU CAN HAVE MY HAPPY MEAL WHEN YOU PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD DEAD GREASY SAUSAGE LIKE FINGERS! That's response you get when the government tries to take direct action. In fact, all you need to do is look at the soda restrictions NY tried to enact to see the kind of response you get.

But to put the record straight, the government IS taking action in regards to climate change. It's just not "in your face" type of action. Various government agencies use quit a bit of climate research in everything from future public works projects to intelligence. So does private industry (like insurance companies).

That being said, can you imagine the uproar if the government went to those people living on the water's edge and said, "Hey, we're moving you inland because the flood risk is just too great."?

People want to the government to operate for the common good, as long as it doesn't affect them.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Patrap:
No fishing yet, but Im off now to Jazz Fest to catch some Buds.

: )


Jazz Fest..
Man what a time I had..
Lived on the west bank at the time..
Enjoy Enjoy!!.. :)
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
No fishing yet, but Im off now to Jazz Fest to catch some Buds.

: )
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting yoboi:


I am so very sorry.....I thought Dr Masters topic was climate change.......


But your topic is pushing an anti AGW agenda. You do this whilst pretending to be interested in rational discussion, when clearly you're not in the least interested.

No matter how clearly things are explained to you and the other deniers on here, you just keep on advancing like B movie zombies, with the same old same old. Frankly, it's all very tedious, and I too would like you to push off.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Patrap:
Itsa warming, and warming Faster.


FRESCA's have arrived for 2013 as well.

: )


Pat..
Good to see you here this am.. :)
Been in the bayou fishing any this year so far?
Fresh shipment of Fresca's??..
Starting June 1 I presume..Lol..

Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
HURRICANE SEASON SCORECARD

I have 105 included in my big list... who else would like to participate...?
I'll be updating it shortly.
Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 104 Comments: 14873
Quoting yoboi:


I am so very sorry.....I thought Dr Masters topic was climate change.......


And other weather topics..
Not trying to bug you really..
Just hoping for an informative blog experience today..
Nothing directly personal I assure you.. :)
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
Itsa warming, and warming Faster.


FRESCA's have arrived for 2013 as well.

: )
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
867. yoboi
Quoting pcola57:


Morning yoboi..
I was afraid of this..
Please move that to the proper blog..
Largo as well as many others others post an opinion on CC/GW occasionally (self included)
But we don't troll it..
And we don't take up ongoing blog space in this blog on it..
Please be sensible..
PS..
I'm not a mod or the blog police..
I just can see where this is going..


I am so very sorry.....I thought Dr Masters topic was climate change.......
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting yoboi:



if a single weather event is differ than climate, why do you always say sandy was caused by agw????? is there a sliding scale you use to decide when agw is the factor?????


Morning yoboi..
I was afraid of this..
Please move that to the proper blog..
Largo as well as many others others post an opinion on CC/GW occasionally (self included)
But we don't troll it..
And we don't take up ongoing blog space in this blog on it..
Please be sensible..
PS..
I'm not a mod or the blog police..
I just can see where this is going..
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
Good morning everyone

On my way home , nice day here and warm...
Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 104 Comments: 14873
864. yoboi
Quoting Xyrus2000:


No it doesn't stand to reason that winter would get shorter or milder. Winter is still winter. The arctic will still go without sun for months at a time. Our days will still be shorter than our nights. Cold temperatures will still exist.

You can't extrapolate the from a single winter in a single region to what's happening in the rest of the world. Look at a global temperature anomaly map. While the current weather pattern has been dumping cool air here it has also pumped warmer air into the arctic regions. You move one air mass, another moves in to fill it's place.

You also can't extrapolate that warmer global temperatures will mean warmer temperatures everywhere. Warmer global temperatures means more energy, but weather determines where that energy goes. What we are seeing right now with cooler temps in the US but warmer temps in some arctic regions demonstrates this.

A global average is just that, an average. An average does not say where or how the extra energy will be distributed. It only shows that it is there. The precise distribution of that energy, where it will be distributed, how it will be distributed. and it's overall impacts are just some of the aspects that climate scientists explore.



if a single weather event is differ than climate, why do you always say sandy was caused by agw????? is there a sliding scale you use to decide when agw is the factor?????
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Dakster:
Gro- It will be interesting to see if weget two storms formed before June this year - it will seem like we are breaking a trend if we do.


I think the season will start early.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26865
Quoting LargoFl:
sure i understand..im just an ordinary retired guy..who hears everywhere the earth is getting warmer..ok here's my point of view..IF the earth IS getting warmer..it stands to reason the winter would get shorter and milder no?..thats not happening from what I see..matter of fact THIS year winter wants to hang on longer...


No it doesn't stand to reason that winter would get shorter or milder. Winter is still winter. The arctic will still go without sun for months at a time. Our days will still be shorter than our nights. Cold temperatures will still exist.

You can't extrapolate the from a single winter in a single region to what's happening in the rest of the world. Look at a global temperature anomaly map. While the current weather pattern has been dumping cool air here it has also pumped warmer air into the arctic regions. You move one air mass, another moves in to fill it's place.

You also can't extrapolate that warmer global temperatures will mean warmer temperatures everywhere. Warmer global temperatures means more energy, but weather determines where that energy goes. What we are seeing right now with cooler temps in the US but warmer temps in some arctic regions demonstrates this.

A global average is just that, an average. An average does not say where or how the extra energy will be distributed. It only shows that it is there. The precise distribution of that energy, where it will be distributed, how it will be distributed. and it's overall impacts are just some of the aspects that climate scientists explore.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Cybr - It will be hot, rainy, and humid until December...
Member Since: March 10, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 10572
Gro- It will be interesting to see if weget two storms formed before June this year - it will seem like we are breaking a trend if we do.
Member Since: March 10, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 10572
BN9 has dropped any chance of any real below average temperatures. Will be hot, muggy and rainy this week.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting LargoFl:
now thats a good point there..i also was wondering IF GW is real would they be adding months to the hurricane season officially?....


Not necessarily. Long term climatological predictions show that while temps will increase, so will wind shear. Having 28C water across the gulf in March doesn't mean much if there is a consistent 60kts of wind shear across the region.

This contributes to the current thinking that Atlantic hurricanes will decrease in number, but those that do form will (on average) be stronger.

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting LargoFl:
OMG aussie what a pic there...never saw anything like that ever...i do remember they had a hail report there yesterday..looks like it was true.

You didn't see the one I posted off Twitter yesterday. it looked like 6-8inches of hail covering the road
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15962
SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT
LAZ049-050-057-058-072-281430-

SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
840 AM CDT SUN APR 28 2013

...LINE OF STRONG THUNDERSTORMS MOVING EAST AFFECTING ST. JAMES
PARISH...ASCENSION PARISH...ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST PARISH...LIVINGSTON
PARISH...SOUTHERN TANGIPAHOA PARISH...

AT 830 AM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS DETECTED A
LINE OF STRONG THUNDERSTORMS FROM 16 MILES WEST OF HAMMOND TO 15
MILES SOUTH OF GONZALES...MOVING EAST AT 15 MPH.

THE LINE OF STRONG THUNDERSTORMS WILL AFFECT AREAS IN AND AROUND...
CONVENT...WHITEHALL...LUTCHER...GRAMERCY...KILLIA N...SPRINGFIELD...
TICKFAW...ROBERT...RESERVE...PONCHATOULA...HAMMON D...LAPLACE...
GARYVILLE AND EDGARD.

THE PRIMARY THREAT FROM THESE STORMS WILL BE SHORT PERIODS OF
LOCALLY HEAVY RAINFALL...WHICH COULD RESULT IN PONDING OF WATER
AROUND LOW LYING ROADWAYS AND IN AREAS OF POOR DRAINAGE.
ADDITIONALLY...HEAVY RAIN WILL GREATLY REDUCE VISIBILITY ALONG
PORTIONS OF INTERSTATES 10...12 AND 55 AS THESE STORMS CONTINUE
EASTWARD. DRIVERS SHOULD EXERCISE CAUTION AND BE PREPARED FOR SUDDEN
DROPS IN VISIBILITY.

THESE STORMS ARE ALSO CAPABLE OF PRODUCING WIND GUSTS OF 35 TO 40
MPH...WHICH COULD DOWN SMALL TREE LIMBS AND BLOW AROUND UNSECURED
SMALL OBJECTS. SEEK SHELTER IN A SAFE HOME OR BUILDING UNTIL THESE
STORMS HAVE PASSED.

$$
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR THE COUNTIES SERVED BY THE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE IN BIRMINGHAM.

.DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHT.

A FEW SEVERE STORMS ARE POSSIBLE AS A WEAKENING FRONT APPROACHES
CENTRAL ALABAMA. THE SEVERE STORMS WILL BE POSSIBLE ALONG AND NEAR
INTERSTATE 59. THE MAIN THREAT WITH THESE STORMS WILL BE DAMAGING
STRAIGHT LINE WINDS AND LARGE HAIL. THE THREAT TIMING APPEARS TO
BE THROUGH 2 PM...WITH SOME WEAKENING OF STORMS IN THE AFTERNOON.
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

1887 had 2 May tropical cyclones, a late November cyclone, and two December cyclones.


I know you remember my post from last week, because you corrected it. :)

Storms or depressions which formed before June

1953 - 1
1959 - 1
1969 - 1
1970 - 1
1971 - 1
1972 - 1
1974 - 1
1976 - 1
1981 - 1
1987 - 1
1988 - 1
1990 - 1
1993 - 1
2007 - 1
2008 - 1
2009 - 1
2012 - 2

Note: 2004 and 2005 the first storm to form was not until June or July.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26865
this must be that weak low down by SW florida......
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
well gutters cleaned..im ready..real glad the rain is coming..
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Quoting AussieStorm:
HerzogWeather Travis Herzog
@Ginger_Zee This was my back porch after the hail core dump ended in #Houston.

OMG aussie what a pic there...never saw anything like that ever...i do remember they had a hail report there yesterday..looks like it was true.
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Quoting yonzabam:


No, and as forecasts for sea level rise are in the region of 1 metre by 2100, I wouldn't expect them to. A far more pressing problem, here in the UK and many other countries is building on inland flood plains. People aren't savvy enough to see that there might be problems, so they buy houses and expect the government to 'do something' when they're flooded.

Problem is, even if governments do spend taxpayers money to defend those stupid enough to buy houses on flood plains, that just pushes the problem downstream, and puts previously unaffected properties at risk.
you have a point there..around here..there are homes RIGHT ON the waters edge..well mother nature sure has a way of dealing with people with no sense.
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Quoting pcola57:


Good morning belizeit..
I think he is advocating "responsibility" concerning commercial Fertilizers..
Run-off ect..
Organic is available to those who chose it..
Changing is difficult when years of practice is to use the commercial..
Thanks for being a farmer by the way..
People don't appreciate it enough.. :)
Your Welcome i love farming
I have also somethimes wondered about the run off problems you have up there if we would have any runoff problems like you have up there we would be charged high fines by the Enviromentis so we have to watch out what we are doing
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting LargoFl:
ok here is a question for you all costal city residents..most of the experts agree that there is extreme melting of the artic and greenland ice sheets..which in turn makes the oceans rise up feet wise..ok...do you..in YOUR city...see any government efforts to build up the immediate coastline?..do you see them moving people AWAY from the shoreline and maybe make that now vacant land maybe parkland?....i seriously doubt that is happening..so we can talk about ice melt and rising seas but your govt doesnt believe it...or maybe waiting till the oceanfront homes get washed away THEN act?.....do you see my point here.


No, and as forecasts for sea level rise are in the region of 1 metre by 2100, I wouldn't expect them to. A far more pressing problem, here in the UK and many other countries is building on inland flood plains. People aren't savvy enough to see that there might be problems, so they buy houses and expect the government to 'do something' when they're flooded.

Problem is, even if governments do spend taxpayers money to defend those stupid enough to buy houses on flood plains, that just pushes the problem downstream, and puts previously unaffected properties at risk.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
next week yet another rain making front comes..hopefully good rain..
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Quoting wunderkidcayman:

lol you know I remember every single thing



I think May storm are going to be less rear from now on and seeing 2 storms in May even less than before

I am like you... I remember every single thing, and wish I didn't
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15962
HerzogWeather Travis Herzog
@Ginger_Zee This was my back porch after the hail core dump ended in #Houston.

Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15962
Quoting AussieStorm:

Oh my,,, shots, I have a bad memory of doing them also. mind you, i was shotting pint glasses of Guinness.

Happy Birthday, if you can remember much of it.

lol you know I remember every single thing

Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

1887 had 2 May tropical cyclones, a late November cyclone, and two December cyclones.


I think May storm are going to be less rear from now on and seeing 2 storms in May even less than before
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Quoting LargoFl: Post# 839
sure i understand..im just an ordinary retired guy..who hears everywhere the earth is getting warmer..ok here's my point of view..IF the earth IS getting warmer..it stands to reason the winter would get shorter and milder no?..thats not happening from what I see..matter of fact THIS year winter wants to hang on longer...


Very good point Largo..
The weather patterns are acting..
Well here is an example of how I see it..

If a tire is unbalanced, it's rotation,or normalcy, is disturbed..
This imbalance causes the tire to fluctuate..

I believe we as a species have disturbed the normal climate into fluctuation and are experiencing the results..
Has the climate been this way before?
Sure it has..
Have we as a species been around long enough to experience it?
Don't think so..
Have we polluted the air to the point of imbalance..
I think we have..

By the way Largo..
I'm like you..
I think CC/GW is better discussed in another blog..
We all know where that blog is..
If not please WU mail me..
But I was moved to post # 834 for the informativeness/ relevancy..
Not for confrontation.. :)
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
ok here is a question for you all coastal city residents..most of the experts agree that there is extreme melting of the artic and greenland ice sheets..which in turn makes the oceans rise up feet wise..ok...do you..in YOUR city...see any government efforts to build up the immediate coastline?..do you see them moving people AWAY from the shoreline and maybe make that now vacant land maybe parkland?....i seriously doubt that is happening..so we can talk about ice melt and rising seas but your govt doesnt believe it...or maybe waiting till the oceanfront homes get washed away THEN act?.....do you see my point here...IF this is REALLY happening..GW and ocean rising WHY arent we seeing action taken?...until i see that..i dont believe it
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Quoting pcola57:


Hey Largo..
Don't know about your "IF"..
They are teaching CC/GW in schools..
Must be important ehh?
Not looking for a dispute my friend..
Just a friendly info post.. :)



Climate Change..Middle school students: Explore climate science and solutions..High school students:
Track your school's climate impact..Click HERE for more


My Blog if you would like to respond there instead of here
sure i understand..im just an ordinary retired guy..who hears everywhere the earth is getting warmer..ok here's my point of view..IF the earth IS getting warmer..it stands to reason the winter would get shorter and milder no?..thats not happening from what I see..matter of fact THIS year winter wants to hang on longer...
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967
Good Day all
Looking forward to hurricane season 2013 hopefully not not as busy as 2005 seeing as were neutral and all! I will be holidaying to Marco Island this coming august september! Cannot wait nothing better than chilling on a florida beach while reading this blog while something threatens the CONUS! See u in june!x
back to lurking
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting belizeit: Post# 835
I suggest you stop eating if you have a problem with fertilizer without comercial fertilizer we farmers would not be able to grow enough for the whole world and if you suggest using organic fertilizer there is not enough material avalible so we could all change over to organic.


Good morning belizeit..
I think he is advocating "responsibility" concerning commercial Fertilizers..
Run-off ect..
Organic is available to those who chose it..
Changing is difficult when years of practice is to use the commercial..
Thanks for being a farmer by the way..
People don't appreciate it enough.. :)
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
Quoting indianrivguy:


Casual day today Marvin.. breakfast with a lady friend, afternoon with my sister. Then getting prepared for trying to sell our school board into bringing a marine science curriculum into Martin County schools, and then our protest rally in Rockledge Weds against fertilizer.

Stand up to Big Fertilizer, Stand up for Indian River Lagoon.

We were successful in Tallahassee at the Environmental Regulatory Commission.. of a sorts. The delayed their vote until June, so we have time to go back at them. I beat them up HARD about the cancer they are about to force upon our children. They could not look me in the eyes... I will WU mail you what Linda Young, Director of the Florida Clean Water Network had to say... so heads up:)

Mate, did you check out the link i posted for you Yesterday?
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15962
Quoting indianrivguy:


Casual day today Marvin.. breakfast with a lady friend, afternoon with my sister. Then getting prepared for trying to sell our school board into bringing a marine science curriculum into Martin County schools, and then our protest rally in Rockledge Weds against fertilizer.

Stand up to Big Fertilizer, Stand up for Indian River Lagoon.

We were successful in Tallahassee at the Environmental Regulatory Commission.. of a sorts. The delayed their vote until June, so we have time to go back at them. I beat them up HARD about the cancer they are about to force upon our children. They could not look me in the eyes... I will WU mail you what Linda Young, Director of the Florida Clean Water Network had to say... so heads up:)
I suggest you stop eating if you have a problem with fertilizer without comercial fertilizer we farmers would not be able to grow enough for the whole world and if you suggest using organic fertilizer there is not enough material avalible so we could all change over to organic.
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Quoting LargoFl: Post# 827
now thats a good point there..i also was wondering IF GW is real would they be adding months to the hurricane season officially?....


Hey Largo..
Don't know about your "IF"..
They are teaching CC/GW in schools..
Must be important ehh?
Not looking for a dispute my friend..
Just a friendly info post.. :)



Climate Change..Middle school students: Explore climate science and solutions..High school students:
Track your school's climate impact..Click HERE for more


My Blog if you would like to respond there instead of here
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6880
Quoting wunderkidcayman:

hmm well rather not speak as cayman as a whole but for myself I had a wonderful birthday but darn NO MORE Birthday Shots for a very very long while

Oh my,,, shots, I have a bad memory of doing them also. mind you, i was shotting pint glasses of Guinness.

Happy Birthday, if you can remember much of it.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15962
FLOOD ADVISORY
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG SC
846 AM EDT SUN APR 28 2013

NCC075-281500-
/O.NEW.KGSP.FA.Y.0033.130428T1246Z-130428T1500Z/
/00000.N.ER.000000T0000Z.000000T0000Z.000000T0000 Z.OO/
GRAHAM NC-
846 AM EDT SUN APR 28 2013

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG HAS ISSUED A

* SMALL STREAM FLOOD ADVISORY FOR HEAVY RAINFALL IN...
GRAHAM COUNTY IN WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA...

* UNTIL 1100 AM EDT

* AT 845 AM EDT...A WIDE BAND OF MODERATE TO HEAVY SHOWERS WITH
EMBEDDED THUNDERSTORMS WAS ACROSS GRAHAM COUNTY. RADAR RAINFALL
ESTIMATES INDICATE THAT BETWEEN AN INCH TO INCH AND A HALF OF RAIN
HAS FALLEN SINCE 745 AM. SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS LOCATED UPSTREAM
ACROSS THE GEORGIA TENNESSEE LINE WILL TRACK ACROSS GRAHAM THROUGH
MID MORNING. THESE SHOWERS AND STORMS ARE EXPECTED TO PRODUCE HOURLY
RAINFALL RATES OF A HALF INCH TO INCH.

* RUNOFF FROM THIS EXCESSIVE RAINFALL WILL CAUSE MINOR FLOODING TO
OCCUR...ESPECIALLY ALONG SMALL STREAMS AND NEAR LOW WATER
CROSSINGS. SOME LOCATIONS THAT WILL EXPERIENCE MINOR FLOODING
INCLUDE...ROBBINSVILLE...FONTANA VILLAGE... AND SANTEETLAH LAKE.

MOTORIST SHOULD USE CAUTION AND CLOSELY WATCH FOR WATER ACROSS LOW
LYING AREAS ALONG COOLOSKA...JACKSON AND MASSEY
BRANCHES...ESPECIALLY ALONG JIMMY DAVIS...JACKSON AND SNOWBIRD ROADS.
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 40967

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.