Where's spring? 2nd most extreme March jet stream pattern on record extends winter

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:15 PM GMT on March 20, 2013

Share this Blog
41
+

Punxatawney Phil got it way wrong. Pennsylvania's famous prognosticating rodent predicted just three more weeks of winter back on February 2. It's the first day of spring, but winter remains firmly entrenched over the eastern half of the U.S., where temperatures of 5 - 25°F below average have been the rule all week. The culprit is the jet stream, which has taken on an unusually contorted shape that is allowing cold air to spill down over the Eastern U.S. and Western Europe, but bringing near-record warmth to portions of Greenland. One measure of how contorted the jet stream has become is by measuring the difference in pressure between the Icelandic Low and the Azores High. There are two indices used to do this--one called the Arctic Oscillation (AO), which treats the flow over the entire Northern Hemisphere, and another called the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), which is more focused on the North Atlantic. The two are closely related about 90% of the time. When these indices are strongly negative, the pressure difference between the Icelandic Low and the Azores High is low. This results in a weaker jet stream, allowing it to take large, meandering loops, letting cold air to spill far to the south from the Arctic into the mid-latitudes. The AO index hit -5.2 today (March 20). This is the second most extreme March value of the index since record keeping began in 1948; only an AO value of -6.3 in March 1970 was more extreme. We've had some wildly variable jet stream patterns in recent years in the Northern Hemisphere. Just last year, we had the opposite extreme in March, when our ridiculous "Summer in March" heat wave brought a week of temperatures in the 80s to the Midwest U.S. The first day of spring today in Chicago, IL is expected to have a high temperature of just 25°F--a 60 degree difference from last year's high of 85°F on March 20!


Figure 1. The jet stream is taking a large dip to the south over the Eastern U.S., allowing cold air to spill southwards and bring winter-like conditions.

Unusual winter jet stream patterns tied to Arctic sea ice loss
Unusual jet stream contortions in winter have become increasingly common in recent years, according to a March 2013 paper by Tang et al., "Cold winter extremes in northern continents linked to Arctic sea ice loss". They found a mathematical relationship between wintertime Arctic sea ice loss and the increase in unusual jet stream patterns capable of bringing cold, snowy weather to the Eastern U.S., Western Europe, and East Asia, typical of what one sees during a strongly negative Arctic Oscillation. They theorized that sea ice loss in the Arctic promotes more evaporation, resulting in earlier snowfall in Siberia and other Arctic lands. The earlier snow insulates the soil, allowing the land to cool more rapidly. This results in a southwards shift of the jet stream and builds higher atmospheric pressures farther to the south, which increases the odds of cold spells and blocking high pressure systems that can cause extended periods of unusually cold and snowy weather in the mid-latitudes.

Related posts
From Heat Wave to Snowstorms, March Goes to Extremes by Andrew Freedman of Climate Central
Extreme jet stream causing record warmth in the east, record cold in the west (January 2013)
Arctic sea ice loss tied to unusual jet stream patterns (April 2012)
Our extreme weather: Arctic changes to blame? (December 2011)
Florida shivers; Hot Arctic-Cold Continents pattern is back (December 2010)
Jet stream moved northwards 270 miles in 22 years; climate change to blame? (June 2008)

I'll have a new post on Thursday.

Jeff Masters

()
Gusty Winds (novembergale)
High winds create huge waves behind ice dunes on Lake Erie this last day of winter.
Gusty Winds
After the blizzard (springsun)
Extreme severe winterconditions in the northeast of Germany, Kap Arkona. Source: wetterzentrale
After the blizzard

Reader Comments

Comments will take a few seconds to appear.

Post Your Comments

Please sign in to post comments.

or Join

Not only will you be able to leave comments on this blog, but you'll also have the ability to upload and share your photos in our Wunder Photos section.

Display: 0, 50, 100, 200 Sort: Newest First - Order Posted

Viewing: 218 - 168

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13Blog Index

Wunderground is quickly becoming the biggest AGW alarmism site on the internet.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting cynyc2:


That's not pain and suffering!!! That is smart!
Hey, it's basically how I live now. But for most middle class Americans, it will be a shock and an affront to their self-perceptions.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
216. Skyepony (Mod)
Quoting schwankmoe:
also, take a look at what's happening to the MYI above greenland right now. pretty much everything north of the Lincoln Sea is cracking apart. biggest cracking event i've ever seen, and it's happening in march.

this is going to be a very bad year for arctic ice, and especially MYI.



I posted the sat pic of that earlier today. It's updated since. I've been floored by it the last few weeks & today. That weird dark open looking area still around the north pole. Looks like it's breaking up along most the N shore of Greenland? Could see it better earlier but this caught half..Is that a new big rift today through the middle of the Arctic along where those strong looking winds are?? That's got to be just cloud boundary or the satellite making it look like that?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Winter stays in northern parts of Europe as well. Unusually cold in Germany too, with more snow in northern and eastern parts. Next week freezing temps in my region as well, brrr! So we are united, folks, in complaining about this "spring", lol.

Report about the UK:

Nature lies dormant ahead of first day of spring

Conservationists report lack of budding plants, animals returning to hibernation and migrating birds held back by wintry weather
John Vidal, environment editor
Read the whole article in: The Guardian, Tuesday 19 March 2013 16.18 GMT


Berlin yesterday (source)
Stay warm, everybody!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting FtMyersgal:


Is there fracking going on in South Jersey?


If it was subsidence due to fracking, that would be an earthquake.
Member Since: July 20, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2445
213. txjac
Quoting Skyepony:
1911maker~ I never said there wouldn't be pain. There will always be pain either way. I just haven't found alot of pain in my daily personal journey in putting less CO2 in the air. It has been a very positive thing that has saved me & made me some money, free better food, less frustrated with more time, less work, trash & worthless crap to deal with. I'm not forcing it as fast as possible. Just taking steps as the last steps pays off & then for the next thing.

I will say I did suffer a few small burns the other day canning 25 jars of jam from the height of the local strawberry season. Saved some CO2. Profited about $100 in product in maybe 3hrs. It's organic & awesome on the homemade bread. Taste alone was worth the burns.


This right here is what made me start thinking about changing my life style and attempting to influence others ....believe it or not, it was Skepony ...I love going to her blogs and read through them and view the beautiful pictures.

Skypony leads by example.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Jedkins01:



That's really strange, I don't think I even have a speculation for what might have caused that given that earth quakes and military are already ruled out...


Is there fracking going on in South Jersey?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting schwankmoe:


how do fewer cosmic rays enter the atmosphere merely because the solar cycle is shorter? changing the frequency of the waveform doesn't change the average.
Greater solar intensity reduces the number of cosmic rays entering the atmosphere.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Here is what is meant by pain and suffering. Basically, newer suburbs and exurbs would need to be bulldozed with residents moving into densely-packed communities so mass transit would be viable. Driving would be limited to shopping trips where heavy loads need to be hauled. Vacations largely would be much closer to home. Shuttling the kids endlessly to events after school would end. Home floor space would be much smaller. There would be strict regulation of water usage and thermostat settings.


That's not pain and suffering!!! That is smart!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
209. Skyepony (Mod)
1911maker~ I never said there wouldn't be pain. There will always be pain either way. I just haven't found alot of pain in my daily personal journey in putting less CO2 in the air. It has been a very positive thing that has saved me & made me some money, free better food, less frustrated with more time, less work, trash & worthless crap to deal with. I'm not forcing it as fast as possible. Just taking steps as the last steps pays off & then for the next thing.

I will say I did suffer a few small burns the other day canning 25 jars of jam from the height of the local strawberry season. Saved some CO2. Profited about $100 in product in maybe 3hrs. It's organic & awesome on the homemade bread. Taste alone was worth the burns.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
208. VR46L
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


That is a blanket statement that cannot be justified. Why would you think that the serious discussions of the issues are not leading by example? Those that sit on the sidelines and even for those that refuse to engage in the conversations at all are not showing any leadership at all.


Rookie , I am talking about some of the folk who engage on GW being only caused by man .. who never give examples of what they do except post comments on the matter or the Al Gore types . I know this goes down as a lead balloon with some here . but even for environmental reasons its good to adapt a greener lifestyle . As I have said before you should practice what you preach (which you do ). not the do as I say ,not what I do ! Or another every little bit matters!
Member Since: March 1, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 6623
Quoting yonzabam:


Once the ice has melted, we'll be able to mine its coal. Silver linings everywhere.
And drill for oil, build refineries and cracking units, utilize its remoteness for spent fuel rods....and lets burn all those used tires there while were at it...what a grand and resourceful species we are....:)
Member Since: Posts: Comments:




Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Skyepony:
Did y'all discuss this yesterday??

Just after 3 o'clock Tuesday afternoon residents in Atlantic, Cape May, and Cumberland counties say they felt multiple earthquake-like tremors that rattled their homes and offices. Absecon resident, Kay Stadlmeir, said, "I don't think it would be an earthquake, but what could it be? It's just really odd." Somers Point resident, Bob Mower, explained, "There was a rattling of my windows and I felt the house shake just a little bit - it was unusual." Stadlmeir told NBC40, "It has to be something really big to be witnessed in such a widespread area of South Jersey." The reports vary from region to region. Atlantic county emergency management officials confirmed with the U.S. Geological Survey that it was not an earthquake. The next thought was that military training or an aircraft flying by might have caused the shakes. Both the 177th Fighter Wing in Egg Harbor Township and Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst confirmed none of their aircrafts were in the area at that time. more here.



That's really strange, I don't think I even have a speculation for what might have caused that given that earth quakes and military are already ruled out...
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 6888
also, take a look at what's happening to the MYI above greenland right now. pretty much everything north of the Lincoln Sea is cracking apart. biggest cracking event i've ever seen, and it's happening in march.

this is going to be a very bad year for arctic ice, and especially MYI.

Quoting Skyepony:
They recalibrated the scary as hell Greenland melting page the other day..

An early spring re-calibration for melt detection
March 18, 2013

The algorithm for the Greenland Ice Sheet Today daily melt extent has been revised to account for unusually warm winter snow layers and residual meltwater deep in the snow. Meltwater from last summer%u2019s intense melt season did not completely re-freeze through at least mid December. The adjusted algorithm shows greatly reduced melt extent for early 2013. This much lower extent is more consistent with available weather and climate records.

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting hydrus:
Greenland is melting fast...scary fast.


Once the ice has melted, we'll be able to mine its coal. Silver linings everywhere.
Member Since: July 20, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2445
Outside Houston,TX this morning

Several homes were damaged in Brookshire during a violent storm early Wednesday morning.


ABC13 Jason Kramer sent us this photo from Yonder Way Farm in Fayetteville









Link
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting 1911maker:


Oh, I am all for comedy. Some times at my own expense.

It was a legit question though. I find it hard to believe that Sky would claim that there will be no pain.


Oh, there will be pain, and sooner than you think, but not for most of the reasons listed in this blog.

It has taken this planet billions of years to accumulate the fuels we use most (coal and oil). The human race has burnt through about 1/2 of this fuel in 100 years, and at current rates of use, we are are looking at a serious increase in their cost in the very near future, as the easy to get to fuel has been extracted.

For example - The Keystone oil pipeline that Canada wants to install (and probably will) is not for US consumption, but for oil/distillates to be sold on the world markets via the ports in the Gulf of Mexico. They can get $15 plus dollars a barrel on these markets over WTI (our local benchmark crude). Since Canada is the largest exporter of oil to the US, expect supply to decrease, and prices to increase.

The days of $4 gas will be thought of as the "good ol' days"!

Did you know that WTI is one of the cheapest benchmark crude blends in the world? Other countries pay a premium up to $30 or more over what we do for oil!

Why do we frac? Not because it is easier or cheaper, but because we have too! Frac wells often experience decline rates of 50% or more the first year of production.

Climate change will only increase these fuel costs, as we will have to move millions of people, agricultural ares, infrastructure, and probably fight a few more resource wars! Throw in some famine, floods, and drought, and the fun will really begin!

Anything you do now to reduce your energy consumption/carbon footprint, will only make your life easier in the years to come. I am guessing by 2020, all of our standards of living will decrease, and it could happen before then.

Good luck all!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
200. Skyepony (Mod)
They recalibrated the scary as hell Greenland melting page the other day..

An early spring re-calibration for melt detection
March 18, 2013

The algorithm for the Greenland Ice Sheet Today daily melt extent has been revised to account for unusually warm winter snow layers and residual meltwater deep in the snow. Meltwater from last summer%u2019s intense melt season did not completely re-freeze through at least mid December. The adjusted algorithm shows greatly reduced melt extent for early 2013. This much lower extent is more consistent with available weather and climate records.

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Basically, the best theory I have seen is that fewer cosmic rays enter the atmosphere, reducing cloud formation.

Which again, is a completely unjustified hypothesis. It's a suggested mechanism that has very poorly-correleated data at best.

Why keep searching for poorly-correlated, unjustified mechanisms that might be causing the warming trend when we have a known physical mechanism - one know for over 100 years - that is doing exact as expected?

Seems less about the preponderance of evidence and more about finding something, anything that it can be, as long as it is not greenhouse gases. This little "discussion" has really opened up my mind more to your critical thinking skills and how you think about science.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
anyone that doubts global warming is not occurring

just has to wait till mid july early august till arctic and greenlands ice melt season is in full swing

greenland may go to 90 percent melt area for about two weeks this year

and ice will melt faster and faster then any other year before it

watch wait see
Greenland is melting fast...scary fast.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting pcola57:


I didn't know that Pedley,
I see the pollen page but I don't see Pollen.com..
I do see that they look very similar..
Thanks.. :)


It lists them on the old site (classic) by name and I just loaded the newer site and verified they all matched. The newer site doesn't show the source.
It should unless they own that site as well (doubt it).....
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
196. Skyepony (Mod)
Did y'all discuss this yesterday??

Just after 3 o'clock Tuesday afternoon residents in Atlantic, Cape May, and Cumberland counties say they felt multiple earthquake-like tremors that rattled their homes and offices. Absecon resident, Kay Stadlmeir, said, "I don't think it would be an earthquake, but what could it be? It's just really odd." Somers Point resident, Bob Mower, explained, "There was a rattling of my windows and I felt the house shake just a little bit - it was unusual." Stadlmeir told NBC40, "It has to be something really big to be witnessed in such a widespread area of South Jersey." The reports vary from region to region. Atlantic county emergency management officials confirmed with the U.S. Geological Survey that it was not an earthquake. The next thought was that military training or an aircraft flying by might have caused the shakes. Both the 177th Fighter Wing in Egg Harbor Township and Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst confirmed none of their aircrafts were in the area at that time. more here.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Basically, the best theory I have seen is that fewer cosmic rays enter the atmosphere, reducing cloud formation.


how do fewer cosmic rays enter the atmosphere merely because the solar cycle is shorter? changing the frequency of the waveform doesn't change the average.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
#170 your warming lag behind the sucycle is how long, 5 years?
YOU look at the graph. Where was the big temperature drop following the big dip in the sunspot cycle in the 1980's? I'm not seeing it. That was 3 cycles ago.
The spots have declined since 1990 but temps have gone up and up.

You said radiation has been increasing. It hasn't.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
193. txjac
@172 biff

Actually, Public buildings have already clamped down on temperature settings, so I think you have this all wrong. It is not a big change for our society at all.


Wish that my company would do that ...in the summer its so cold that we wear sweaters
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Me walking and taking transit instead of driving doesn't have a statistically significant impact on global CO2 levels. But Doha could have been done by teleconference. Reduction in carbon emissions will come about by pursuing all paths. Small changes when done widely would accumulate to signficant impacts.


I am not going to argue whether or not the UN should use teleconferencing. My gut instinct from doing model European Union stuff in college is that, no, it probably wouldn't work that well.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting txjac:


if you don't want to believe in reality because some people who already believe in reality aren't acting in a certain way, then yes you are merely entertaining yourself.

when it comes to pointing out what is actually happening in the real world, today, my lifestyle is a meaningless sidebar.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
I think the opposite applies - if an AGW proponent cannot be bothered to pursue a low-carbon lifestyle, their words ring much more hollow. Seriously, if you truly believe AGW is an existential threat, you act on it - as you have.


in terms of the reality of climate change, who cares if i live a low-carbon lifestyle? does it do anything to convince you or any denialist of the veracity of the scientific consensus on climate change? of course not.

its a red herring.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting schwankmoe:


besides which, does anyone actually think the act of a person leading a low-carbon lifestyle will convince a denier of anything at all? i lead a deliberately low-carbon lifestyle and have pointed it out to deniers when they ask, who then go on to some other denialist point or another.

demanding others 'lead by example' is for the most part a denier's attempt to get people to jump through hoops for their own amusement. they don't actually care at all whether you or i or anyone practices what they preach. they just want to obfuscate.


Demanding that everyone who thinks AGW is a problem do everything that they can to minimize their carbon footprint before they (the ones making the demand) do anything is a great way to get their opponents data and statements heard a lot less. Media don't cover virtual teleconferences much. If they don't have to hear it, they won't have to pretend there's not really a problem!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
188. txjac
Quoting schwankmoe:


besides which, does anyone actually think the act of a person leading a low-carbon lifestyle will convince a denier of anything at all? i lead a deliberately low-carbon lifestyle and have pointed it out to deniers when they ask, who then go on to some other denialist point or another.

demanding others 'lead by example' is for the most part a denier's attempt to get people to jump through hoops for their own amusement. they don't actually care at all whether you or i or anyone practices what they preach. they just want to obfuscate.







Wow ...unbelievable ...you think that I just want to entertain myself by asking others to lead by example? I do ...and it does work ...making changes happen and I am just one person ...others are coming on board ...and I work for an oil tool supply company ...one of those evil companies ...but they are listening and making positive changes ..

Sorry that my post got mingled into yours ...not sure how that happened
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting knative:


This is just bad logic, guy. The actions of a person do not reflect on the strength of a person's argument. It's an ad hom.
It's hardly bad logic. It's called leading by example, a trait we apparently no longer demand of those who wish to be our leaders.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
If you look at charts, warming lags sunspot cycles. And one down cycle does not cause a major shift in the long-term trend.


Ah, the whole "ignore total solar irradiance and use solar cycle length instead" driver of climate.
This has not been treated as a viable explanation for climatic changes for a number of years. In fact, it's been some time since I've even heard someone make this claim.

For more information, see:
http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications /PDF_Papers/DamonLaut2004.pdf
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting schwankmoe:
so what is the purported mechanism by which a shortened sunspot cycle causes higher temperatures?

Basically, the best theory I have seen is that fewer cosmic rays enter the atmosphere, reducing cloud formation.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
If you look at charts, warming lags sunspot cycles. And one down cycle does not cause a major shift in the long-term trend.



Since that chart shows 1998 at 0.2C higher than any year since, it's obviously from a denier fantasy site.
Member Since: July 20, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2445
I admit that I used to be a skeptic on AGW. I'm sure I've had a small debate with some of you, in fact. However, I realized that I'm not a scientist that dedicates my life to studying and researching the planet's climate. Therefore, how can I offer a differing opinion that really amounts to much? If we could truly get past the human element of debate and our egotistical mindset about who is right or wrong, we might could make more progress. Personally, I see nothing wrong with making our climate cleaner and healthier to live in, but maybe that's just me. Until then, our egos will remain more important than the climate in which we and future generations live.
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 17 Comments: 10157
Quoting knative:


The amount of greenhouse gases released because of the 2012 United Nations Climate Change Conference in Doha will not have any statistically significant impact on global temperatures.
If all the scientist who study climate change decided to live like ascetics, it would not have any significant statistical effect on climate change. The people that will be in "inspired" to use less by those climate scientists that live like ascetics will also have no significant effect on the amount of greenhouse gases produced by humans. We are talking about the collective actions of billions of people.
Me walking and taking transit instead of driving doesn't have a statistically significant impact on global CO2 levels. But Doha could have been done by teleconference. Reduction in carbon emissions will come about by pursuing all paths. Small changes when done widely would accumulate to signficant impacts.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
181. Skyepony (Mod)
SOLAR 2013 opens April 16-20, 2013, at the Baltimore Convention Center in Baltimore, Maryland. The American Solar Energy Society(ASES) presents America’s longest-running solar conference series, now in its 42nd year. SOLAR 2013 will examine how mainstream renewable energy technologies are saving money today for small and large businesses, homeowners and utility companies. We’ll look at policy initiatives that can streamline permitting and financing, and explore the road forward as renewable installations double annually. This year a special session will examine the relationship between extreme weather events and renewable energy. We’ll also be asking our two German plenary speakers what the US can learn from Germany’s rapid conversion to renewable energy.

Covering passive solar & building green, Germany's success in solar, using extreme weather govt funds to rebuild better..

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
so what is the purported mechanism by which a shortened sunspot cycle causes higher temperatures?

Quoting AGWcreationists:
If you look at charts, warming lags sunspot cycles. And one down cycle does not cause a major shift in the long-term trend.

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
I think the opposite applies - if an AGW proponent cannot be bothered to pursue a low-carbon lifestyle, their words ring much more hollow. Seriously, if you truly believe AGW is an existential threat, you act on it - as you have.


This is just bad logic, guy. The actions of a person do not reflect on the strength of a person's argument. It's an ad hom.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
I'll repeat my previous post:

...newer suburbs and exurbs would need to be bulldozed with residents moving into densely-packed communities so mass transit would be viable. Driving would be limited to shopping trips where heavy loads need to be hauled. Vacations largely would be much closer to home. Shuttling the kids endlessly to events after school would end. Home floor space would be much smaller. There would be strict regulation of water usage and thermostat settings.

----------

That, IMO, is what it would take to signficantly curtail carbon emissions in the United States.

Only to have those reductions offset by increases in the developing world.
do you not see that government or hound the world is using the agw theory to push agendas and increase control? I totally agree that steps need to be taken to change the way we interact with our planet, but those steps not be confused with a power snatch by world governments. I hope everyone here is aware of that
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
If you look at charts, warming lags sunspot cycles. And one down cycle does not cause a major shift in the long-term trend.

sorry but i have to comment on this one this time.. to make that claim this graph would need to illustrate a lagging pattern with previous cycles overlaying low CO2.
it doesn't.
what it does show are 3 sets of data, two that correlate and one that does not.
the data set In This Chart that does not correlate is the sunspot cycle. however, the CO2 and temperature data Do correlate, illustrated in this chart you use.
that means this chart is showing people exactly the opposite that you claim based on empiricism alone.
get a new chart if you wish to make such a claim.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
176. txjac
Quoting Neapolitan:
I dunno; I think that particular logical fallacy (and appeal to motive) is often used by fake skeptics. As in: "Al Gore makes money and flies a jet. Therefore, climate change isn't real."


Nea ...I'm not a denier ...geez, making assumptions just because I want the vocal ones to take accountability as I do? I'm also very vocal at work with the non stop flying our group does ...there is so much that can be done by video conference. Much of what our group does can be done from home ...one of the managers, not mine, has allowed his group to work from home just to conserve ...granted the few amount of people that are working from home arent making much of an impact but just think if every company did this? Got on people drinking from water bottles and styrafoam cups ...now we use ceramic mugs and water filtered from the refrigerator ...we are attempting to take the savings on the water bottles and coffee cups to engage in more enviromentally friendly applications. We re-cycle everything ...bottles, paper, bateries ...etc
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting schwankmoe:


besides which, does anyone actually think the act of a person leading a low-carbon lifestyle will convince a denier of anything at all?
I think the opposite applies - if an AGW proponent cannot be bothered to pursue a low-carbon lifestyle, their words ring much more hollow. Seriously, if you truly believe AGW is an existential threat, you act on it - as you have.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting VR46L:


Totally agree with you !! Why would anyone change if the 100% believers do not set an example !!


That is a blanket statement that cannot be justified. Why would you think that the serious discussions of the issues are not leading by example? Those that sit on the sidelines and even for those that refuse to engage in the conversations at all are not showing any leadership at all.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting MrMixon:


if you're waiting for every AGW proponent to become the perfect green citizen before you take your own action then you'll be waiting a long, long time.


that's the whole idea.

then, when it finally becomes clear to these people that the climate is indeed changing and they grudgingly admit it, they'll then argue that it's "the warmists' fault because they didn't do a good enough job convincing me".

you can't win.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
If the rest of your data is as bad as your solar information, you have little to contribute.

Everything apart from the bulldozers and big brother on the thermostat is happening already. Public water sources are at all time lows leading to mandatory decreases in lawn watering. People want public transit and compactly designed urban spaces specifically to cut back endless soccer, grocery, and ballet trips which most folks don't want anyway, particularly at these gas prices.

No, vacations are not regulated, but at these fuel prices "staycation" has entered our lexicon.

Actually, Public buildings have already clamped down on temperature settings, so I think you have this all wrong. It is not a big change for our society at all.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting biff4ugo:
AGW,
You better recheck your solar data. We had the weakest sunspot maxima in Decades this last cycle. What is your source for solar radiation?
If you look at charts, warming lags sunspot cycles. And one down cycle does not cause a major shift in the long-term trend.

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting PedleyCA:


You know that WU uses that same source for there Pollen counts.


I didn't know that Pedley,
I see the pollen page but I don't see Pollen.com..
I do see that they look very similar..
Thanks.. :)
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Neapolitan:
I dunno; I think that particular logical fallacy (and appeal to motive) is often used by fake skeptics. As in: "Al Gore makes money and flies a jet. Therefore, climate change isn't real."


besides which, does anyone actually think the act of a person leading a low-carbon lifestyle will convince a denier of anything at all? i lead a deliberately low-carbon lifestyle and have pointed it out to deniers when they ask, who then go on to some other denialist point or another.

demanding others 'lead by example' is for the most part a denier's attempt to get people to jump through hoops for their own amusement. they don't actually care at all whether you or i or anyone practices what they preach. they just want to obfuscate.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:

Viewing: 218 - 168

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13Blog Index

Top of Page

About

Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.