Where's spring? 2nd most extreme March jet stream pattern on record extends winter

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:15 PM GMT on March 20, 2013

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Punxatawney Phil got it way wrong. Pennsylvania's famous prognosticating rodent predicted just three more weeks of winter back on February 2. It's the first day of spring, but winter remains firmly entrenched over the eastern half of the U.S., where temperatures of 5 - 25°F below average have been the rule all week. The culprit is the jet stream, which has taken on an unusually contorted shape that is allowing cold air to spill down over the Eastern U.S. and Western Europe, but bringing near-record warmth to portions of Greenland. One measure of how contorted the jet stream has become is by measuring the difference in pressure between the Icelandic Low and the Azores High. There are two indices used to do this--one called the Arctic Oscillation (AO), which treats the flow over the entire Northern Hemisphere, and another called the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), which is more focused on the North Atlantic. The two are closely related about 90% of the time. When these indices are strongly negative, the pressure difference between the Icelandic Low and the Azores High is low. This results in a weaker jet stream, allowing it to take large, meandering loops, letting cold air to spill far to the south from the Arctic into the mid-latitudes. The AO index hit -5.2 today (March 20). This is the second most extreme March value of the index since record keeping began in 1948; only an AO value of -6.3 in March 1970 was more extreme. We've had some wildly variable jet stream patterns in recent years in the Northern Hemisphere. Just last year, we had the opposite extreme in March, when our ridiculous "Summer in March" heat wave brought a week of temperatures in the 80s to the Midwest U.S. The first day of spring today in Chicago, IL is expected to have a high temperature of just 25°F--a 60 degree difference from last year's high of 85°F on March 20!


Figure 1. The jet stream is taking a large dip to the south over the Eastern U.S., allowing cold air to spill southwards and bring winter-like conditions.

Unusual winter jet stream patterns tied to Arctic sea ice loss
Unusual jet stream contortions in winter have become increasingly common in recent years, according to a March 2013 paper by Tang et al., "Cold winter extremes in northern continents linked to Arctic sea ice loss". They found a mathematical relationship between wintertime Arctic sea ice loss and the increase in unusual jet stream patterns capable of bringing cold, snowy weather to the Eastern U.S., Western Europe, and East Asia, typical of what one sees during a strongly negative Arctic Oscillation. They theorized that sea ice loss in the Arctic promotes more evaporation, resulting in earlier snowfall in Siberia and other Arctic lands. The earlier snow insulates the soil, allowing the land to cool more rapidly. This results in a southwards shift of the jet stream and builds higher atmospheric pressures farther to the south, which increases the odds of cold spells and blocking high pressure systems that can cause extended periods of unusually cold and snowy weather in the mid-latitudes.

Related posts
From Heat Wave to Snowstorms, March Goes to Extremes by Andrew Freedman of Climate Central
Extreme jet stream causing record warmth in the east, record cold in the west (January 2013)
Arctic sea ice loss tied to unusual jet stream patterns (April 2012)
Our extreme weather: Arctic changes to blame? (December 2011)
Florida shivers; Hot Arctic-Cold Continents pattern is back (December 2010)
Jet stream moved northwards 270 miles in 22 years; climate change to blame? (June 2008)

I'll have a new post on Thursday.

Jeff Masters

()
Gusty Winds (novembergale)
High winds create huge waves behind ice dunes on Lake Erie this last day of winter.
Gusty Winds
After the blizzard (springsun)
Extreme severe winterconditions in the northeast of Germany, Kap Arkona. Source: wetterzentrale
After the blizzard

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Quoting 1911maker:
37. stormygace Straw man argument.

38. Skyepony, you lost me. Are you saying that we can make the move away from CO2 with out any significant change in society? Specifiably with out any pain and suffering along the way?


Interesting. I suppose that would be determined by what you mean by "pain and suffering".

When you consume less of the marketed goods you also spend less in the process. Is this pain and suffering?

When you consume less in material objects you also save more money by not having to maintain their proper upkeep. Is this pain and suffering?

When you become more self sufficient in how you go about your daily life you are also less reliant on others to help you succeed. Is this pain and suffering? Certainly one could acquire more money and pay to be "self sufficient", in this sense. What happens should you lose your money through circumstances unforeseen, but not unforeseeable? (the 2008 stock market, for example?)

What brings you more pain and suffering? Is it the ability for you to perform your own work or to have to pay others to do it for you simply because you lack the knowledge and skills to perform the work yourself?

I know you, 1911maker, and I know of the many skills you have acquired for doing things for yourself. So please know that I am speaking in general terms and not to you.
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Quoting txjac:


I think that AG is trying to get across is to Lead by Example instead of Do as I say and not as I do
Worked when I was raising my kids


Which AG is that ?

The Blogger AGWCREATIONIST or Al Gore....LOL

Cause I dont think its Al Gore !!

and I think I might step away now!

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We have pollen drifts instead of snow drifts here. Had about a quarter inch of rain last night to help wash away some of the yellow stuff. This morning it's 60F, sunny with a light breeze. A lovely spring day to say "Hello World!"

Member Since: September 4, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1457
Quoting SuzK:


This is an unlooked-for but very credible danger resulting from AGW: higher pollen counts. Look for continued upticks of asthma and allergy-related respiratory distress. You can see these 'facts' for themselves when the trees go to seed, the amount of seeds shed per season has risen steeply over the past 20 years, as has the pollen.


Was thinking about that as I left the vet yesterday SuzK. There are many people at work that are suffering too.
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64. SuzK
Quoting txjac:
Really enjoyed the rain that we were blessed with this morning in Houston ... hopefully all the pollen and dust and whatever in the air has settled a bit ...my poor pooch is sufferning from alergies ...had to take her to the vet to get meds


This is an unlooked-for but very credible danger resulting from AGW: higher pollen counts. Look for continued upticks of asthma and allergy-related respiratory distress. You can see these 'facts' for themselves when the trees go to seed, the amount of seeds shed per season has risen steeply over the past 20 years, as has the pollen.
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Anyone care to comment about the return period of the March 2012 warm spell (~100 years) v.s. the return period of these two coldish
weeks in March? (Which I suspect is a lot less.. perhaps ten years)
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Quoting wxmod:


Anyone who flies in a jet or drives in a car or orders something from overseas is causing global warming. Sounds like you have a vendetta against one small group of people. Yes, there is hypocrisy out there. Have you been perfect lately?


I think that AG is trying to get across is to Lead by Example instead of Do as I say and not as I do
Worked when I was raising my kids
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Quoting ncstorm:


I agree about the food..organic food brought in the grocery store is so expensive..I personally think the prices are expensive so people will stay sick behind the non organic food whereas Insurance companies get rich off people ingesting chemicals..its all a partnership in greed at the expense of death..I would love to become a gardner but I am terrified of frogs..LOL..I can remember my mom digging up her garden with a hoe and these huge frogs will jump out of the dirt..if you know a way where I can avoid the frogs, please let me know..LOL


Lots of protein in frogs.
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Quoting Skyepony:


Everything I've done has certainly changed my lifestyle because I ended up with more money. Food is expensive..Become a gardener, eat healthier, feel better, look better (a little sun & exercise does wonders) spend less on food & health care.

Loving my more efficient appliances. They've payed for them selves, put money in my pocket..

Everything you do saves you money which makes it easier to get by.


I agree about the food..organic food brought in the grocery store is so expensive..I personally think the prices are expensive so people will stay sick behind the cheaper non organic food whereas Insurance companies get rich off people ingesting chemicals..its all a partnership in greed at the expense of death..I would love to become a gardner but I am terrified of frogs..LOL..I can remember my mom digging up her garden with a hoe and these huge frogs will jump out of the dirt..if you know a way where I can avoid the frogs, please let me know..LOL
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Quoting kwgirl:
Everyone who knows me has heard me say that mankind is an experiment planted here by some alien being. But how far does a scientist let the experiment run? Until the test subject is dead? Mankind has always been the "great destroyer". Look what we have done to this spaceship earth, let alone to each other.

I don't think the powers that be will do anything to curtail co2 emissions until forced. I wonder how bad that catastrophe will be?


They don't perceive a personal need to act because almost everyone alive, and most of the next generation will be dead for normal life expectancy reasons before any true calamity happens.

Remember, leaders don't care about people. They only care about accumulating their own wealth.
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 33 Comments: 1520
thanks doc nice update

spring will be held off just a little longer

but not much longer
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 169 Comments: 53296
Quoting AGWcreationists:
You mean like all the AGW proponents who travel thousands of miles to climate conferences instead of simply teleconferencing?

Or President Obama flying out to Las Vegas and back to give a single fundraising speech?


Anyone who flies in a jet or drives in a car or orders something from overseas is causing global warming. Sounds like you have a vendetta against one small group of people. Yes, there is hypocrisy out there. Have you been perfect lately?
Member Since: October 4, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1738
On March 19th they named "Jill" a High in the northern waters off Norway..
Thats about all I see right now Skye..

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What I think would be nice to see is some history on the occurrences of the wild varience in the Jetstream. Rather maybe a climatology listing and then a year over year (just specific months for me) view of where its at during said months and where typically it should be based on seasonal shifts.

Its apparent no matter what the cause, There is some rather unusual things going on with the weather. I for one do not look forward to another round of snows here in KC missouri (It is cold as heck compared to what it Should be.)

-MWS
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50. MrMixon


Yes we need to make some big changes, but that doesn't mean reverting to our hunting-gathering days. It just means making smarter choices about when to use fossil fuels and when to use our own power.

We are now talking policy. Just how close to the hunter gather are we going to get?

Little CO2 reductions are not going to cut it. We need large, quick reductions of CO2 output. Not later, now. Can we do that with out a major shift in every ones lives?
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Thanks, Doc
Member Since: February 29, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 5685
Quoting Minnemike:
Skye was merely relating individual benefits to reducing impacts of CO2 or energy consumption. funny how at once you both state someone is using fallacy and then kinda run away with another's comment. but then irony is the oldest form of comedy ;)


Oh, I am all for comedy. Some times at my own expense.

It was a legit question though. I find it hard to believe that Sky would claim that there will be no pain.

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That's quite a 500 mb ridge in the Greenland/North Pole area. That would be why the AO is so negative right now.

Member Since: August 2, 2006 Posts: 46 Comments: 11666
Quoting 1911maker:

38. Skyepony, you lost me. Are you saying that we can make the move away from CO2 with out any significant change in society? Specifiably with out any pain and suffering along the way?


I took her to mean that she HAD made some significant changes in her life and, hey, it turns out the changes were neither costly nor difficult. Indeed, many changes we can make to reduce our CO2 output end up saving us money in the long run and/or making us healthier.

Fossil fuels or other dense power sources are necessary for modern life... but some things are still very easy to do without them (think raking leaves instead of using a leaf blower, using an old-school mechanical push mower for small yards instead of a gas mower, biking to lunch instead of driving, etc).

Yes we need to make some big changes, but that doesn't mean reverting to our hunting-gathering days. It just means making smarter choices about when to use fossil fuels and when to use our own power.
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Quoting 1911maker:
37. stormygace Straw man argument.

38. Skyepony, you lost me. Are you saying that we can make the move away from CO2 with out any significant change in society? Specifiably with out any pain and suffering along the way?
Skye was merely relating individual benefits to reducing impacts of CO2 or energy consumption. funny how at once you both state someone is using fallacy and then kinda run away with another's comment. but then irony is the oldest form of comedy ;)
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Quoting SPLbeater:


Winter is holding a grudge on central North Carolina...we get 2009 and 2010 with 2-4 winter storms(accumulations in excess of 3 inches), and ever since 2011 we havnt got anything more then a quarter inch of snow, which melted before daylight.


I've always had the cynical saying (not backed by science) that Spring in Winter is followed by Winter in Spring.

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Quoting Skyepony:
pcola~ quite a difference with the one I posted only being 6 hours fresher.



Yeah I noticed that too Skye..
I was trying to get a Euro vantage point on that High but no results.. :(
UK office makes mention of the Low they're going to get in 24hrs..
No mention of the High..
They usually name them..
Ill check and see if they have named it yet..
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New GFS has stronger surface low,negligible warm sector change
that's near 992mb


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Quoting ncstorm:
this should be very interesting..winter is not over by a long shot..

50 PERCENT OF THE EUROPEAN CENTRE
ENSEMBLE MEMBERS BROUGHT ACCUMULATING SNOW NORTHWARD INTO VIRGINIA
AND MARYLAND. THERE WAS EVEN A SMALL CLUSTER (3 MEMBERS, OR 6
PERCENT) THAT SPUN UP A DEEP CYCLONE JUST EAST OF THE DELMARVA
PENINSULA DAY 5, WITH HEAVY SNOWFALL FOR THE I-95 CORRIDOR.


Winter is holding a grudge on central North Carolina...we get 2009 and 2010 with 2-4 winter storms(accumulations in excess of 3 inches), and ever since 2011 we havnt got anything more then a quarter inch of snow, which melted before daylight.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Here is the skinny on global carbon emissions by country, as of 2008, per the EPA (full link below); talk about creating the political will to change lifestyles, and industrialization development, when the largest economies in the world (from which we have benefited in terms in the name of "comfort and convenience")got there using 20th century fossil fuels..........Do we take action now in the 21st century or do we can kick the can to our grandchildren?

That is the great rub..................

Emissions by Country
In 2008, the top carbon dioxide (CO2) emitters were China, the United States, the European Union, India, the Russian Federation, Japan, and Canada. These data include CO2 emissions from fossil fuel combustion, as well as cement manufacturing and gas flaring. Together, these sources represent a large proportion of total global CO2 emissions.


Link
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Some Alabaman's are complaining about cold air and no power, lol.
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37. stormygace Straw man argument.

38. Skyepony, you lost me. Are you saying that we can make the move away from CO2 with out any significant change in society? Specifiably with out any pain and suffering along the way?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
.
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Quoting kwgirl:
Everyone who knows me has heard me say that mankind is an experiment planted here by some alien being. But how far does a scientist let the experiment run? Until the test subject is dead? Mankind has always been the "great destroyer". Look what we have done to this spaceship earth, let alone to each other.

I don't think the powers that be will do anything to curtail co2 emissions until forced. I wonder how bad that catastrophe will be?


You must read science fiction. Which of the old writers is your favorite?

Robert A. Heinlein, Clark, Larry Niven,Harry Harrison, etc.

I think Heinlein is mine......
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38. Skyepony (Mod)
Quoting 1911maker:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Tell me exactly how carbon emissions can be curtailed without a dramatic change to American lifestyles.


They can not. Who told you other wise?


Everything I've done has certainly changed my lifestyle because I ended up with more money. Food is expensive..Become a gardener, eat healthier, feel better, look better (a little sun & exercise does wonders) spend less on food & health care.

Loving my more efficient appliances. They've payed for them selves, put money in my pocket..

Everything you do saves you money which makes it easier to get by.
Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37341
Quoting 1911maker:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Tell me exactly how carbon emissions can be curtailed without a dramatic change to American lifestyles.


They can not. Who told you other wise?


Every single global warming "professional" who has more than 2 children and flies/drives/carts to meetings and vacations with the clutch across the country. It's called "Leadership by Example" & appears in fine demonstrative order in all arenas of the "human caused global warming" industry.
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A strict interpretation of the ANSI standard groundhog forecasting
rules (readily obtained in the "GW deniers alternative universe handbook
of metaphysical constants") states that the failure of an adult
groundhog of breeding age to see it's shadow on February 2 proclaims that there will
not be six more weeks of winter.

The rodent was right. Eight weeks more! So there you have it.


By the way since my insane rants have been taken seriously
before I'll state here that uu.hhh

I'M KIDDING!
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Quoting OldLeatherneck:


It's obvious that the Creators (He/She/Spirit/Mythological Figure/Yet Undefined Being) are about to make the following announcement:

"The Humanoid Experiment on Planet Earth is Hereby Cancelled!!"
Everyone who knows me has heard me say that mankind is an experiment planted here by some alien being. But how far does a scientist let the experiment run? Until the test subject is dead? Mankind has always been the "great destroyer". Look what we have done to this spaceship earth, let alone to each other.

I don't think the powers that be will do anything to curtail co2 emissions until forced. I wonder how bad that catastrophe will be?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
this should be very interesting..winter is not over by a long shot..

50 PERCENT OF THE EUROPEAN CENTRE
ENSEMBLE MEMBERS BROUGHT ACCUMULATING SNOW NORTHWARD INTO VIRGINIA
AND MARYLAND. THERE WAS EVEN A SMALL CLUSTER (3 MEMBERS, OR 6
PERCENT) THAT SPUN UP A DEEP CYCLONE JUST EAST OF THE DELMARVA
PENINSULA DAY 5, WITH HEAVY SNOWFALL FOR THE I-95 CORRIDOR.
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Quoting AGWcreationists:
I'm not dragging that discussion into this thread.


That is for the best.
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Quoting 1911maker:
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Tell me exactly how carbon emissions can be curtailed without a dramatic change to American lifestyles.


They can not. Who told you other wise?
I'm not dragging that discussion into this thread.
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31. Skyepony (Mod)
pcola~ quite a difference with the one I posted only being 6 hours fresher.

Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37341
Thanks Dr. I find it interesting that many Chinese scholars are involved in weather/science research, not only on this topic but in the tropical meteorology journals as well, that often supports GW concerns and whether they exert any influence, or voice their concerns, to Chinese government officials. China is one of most onerous carbon emission nations on the Earth right now.........One of my buds (an NBC camera man) was in Bejing for the Olympics a few years ago and the "fog" and pollution was oppressive during his stay.

Anyone on here know where China (the government) is at the moment on GW and carbon emission issues?; seems that many of their scholars are on board.

Thanks.........................
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EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS WEATHER PREDICTION CENTER COLLEGE PARK MD
1102 AM EDT WED MAR 20 2013

VALID 12Z SAT MAR 23 2013 - 12Z WED MAR 27 2013


THE EXTREME HIGH-LATITUDE BLOCK WILL CONTINUE TO HOLD SWAY ACROSS
NORTH AMERICA THROUGH THE MEDIUM RANGE, WITH A MARKEDLY SUPPRESSED
POLAR JET FROM COAST TO COAST. AREAS EAST OF THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER
ARE EXPECTED TO BE DOMINATED BY MODIFIED ARCTIC AIR, WITH THE
PRIMARY LOW TRACK ALONG THE GULF COAST AND OFF THE SOUTHEAST
ATLANTIC COAST. WEST OF THE CONTINENTAL DIVIDE, MARITIME POLAR AIR
WILL PREVAIL, WITH LITTLE IN THE WAY OF
SIGNIFICANT PRECIPITATION
UNTIL LATE IN THE PERIOD WHEN THE LARGE SCALE FLOW GIVES ENOUGH TO
ALLOW A SLOW-MOVING TROUGH TO APPROACH THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.

RELIED ONCE AGAIN ON THE STEADFAST EUROPEAN CENTRE ENSEMBLE MEAN,
WHICH CORRELATED WELL WITH THE GEFS MEAN FROM THE SAME 00Z/20
MODEL CYCLE.

THE MOST ACTIVE REGIONS THIS PERIOD WILL BE THE GULF STATES AND
MUCH OF THE ATLANTIC SEABOARD, WHERE MOISTURE INFLOW AND
BAROCLINICITY WILL BE RIPEST.
THE DISJOINTED WAVE CROSSING THE
SOUTHEAST DAY 4 HAS PROVEN THE MOST DIFFICULT TO SORT OUT, WITH
THE GLOBAL NUMERICAL GUIDANCE ALTERNATING BETWEEN PRIMACY OF THE
SURFACE LOW WEST OF THE APPALACHIANS AND ALONG THE EAST COAST.
HEAVY RAINS ARE A SAFE BET FOR THE DEEP SOUTH. THE MUCH IFFIER
SENSIBLE WEATHER THREAT IS LATE SEASON SNOWFALL ON THE NORTH SIDE
OF WHATEVER COMPOSITE CYCLONE FINALLY EMERGES OVER THE OCEAN. AS
OF THE 00Z/20 MODEL RUN, 50 PERCENT OF THE EUROPEAN CENTRE
ENSEMBLE MEMBERS BROUGHT ACCUMULATING SNOW NORTHWARD INTO VIRGINIA
AND MARYLAND. THERE WAS EVEN A SMALL CLUSTER (3 MEMBERS, OR 6
PERCENT) THAT SPUN UP A DEEP CYCLONE JUST EAST OF THE DELMARVA
PENINSULA DAY 5, WITH HEAVY SNOWFALL FOR THE I-95 CORRIDOR. AT
THIS POINT, THE POTENTIAL THREAT WITH THIS EVENT IS BEST EXPRESSED
IN THOSE PROBABILITIES.


CISCO
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Quoting AGWcreationists:
Tell me exactly how carbon emissions can be curtailed without a dramatic change to American lifestyles.


They can not. Who told you other wise?
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Current Metoffice Weather Report Surface Pressure Chart..



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Quoting FunnelVortex:


Dont bring that fight here!
I won't, as AGW is only tangentally part of this particular blog entry.
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25. Skyepony (Mod)
Check out the high up there east of Greenland..1073mb!!!

Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37341
Quoting Chicklit:
I think the effects of human-caused global warming are "snowballing" a lot faster than expected.
Since we're very recent additions to the biosphere it's quite possible our 'reign on earth' will be relatively brief.


It's obvious that the Creators (He/She/Spirit/Mythological Figure/Yet Undefined Being) are about to make the following announcement:

"The Humanoid Experiment on Planet Earth is Hereby Cancelled!!"
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Quoting FunnelVortex:


Dont bring that fight here!


Dr. Masters tags have "climate Change" for this post in it. Seems like a perfectly legitimate topic.



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Quoting 47n91w:
Heavy lake-effect snows today over the Wisconsin and western UP snowbelts today as cold air pours south from Canada and a trough sweeps around the backside of the departing low pressure system in the NE.US and E.Can.



The snows over the Penokee/Gogebic ranges (WI/MI border) are below the radar tilt and not showing up on KDLH's radar image.

Luckily I'm between the two heaviest bands today, but the winds are still blowing loose snow on the ground horizontally. This morning I had 15" of snow still on the ground and have received 68" total this winter, a few inches above average. On this date last year all the snow pack had melted already.



And just for fun, Wisconsin's average winter snowfall map. I wasn't able to readily find one for Michigan's UP:



Report from my brother who lives in the Penokee range in N. Iron Co, has over 4' on the ground. Snow report from Twin Lakes MI last evening, 22" since Monday and it was still snowing. Hoping this will help get the water table back up to normal. It has been several years since they've seen this much snow!
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Quoting FunnelVortex:


Dont bring that fight here!


No one curtails your missives - please do not attempt to curtail another member's opinion in a manner you do not wish turned on you. Your opinion is valuable - just no more so than any other member. Please adjust accordingly for the sake of the whole. Disagree without decrees - they are so toddlerish.
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Quoting txjac:


Not a whole bunch as its mostly dried up already but will take whatever. Dont have a gauge so I really dont know how much or how little

Did you get any?


Don't know how much, pretty sure less than .10"
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Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:
From the previous blog:

Quoting AGWcreationists:
Tell me exactly how carbon emissions can be curtailed without a dramatic change to American lifestyles.

That is the true issue here. And the reason why it will be so difficult to reduce carbon emissions.

It goes beyond the realm of science into the personal and political.




The personal and political aspects of AGW/CC are only attempts to escape the reality of what the science tells us. Unfortunately, you are correct that personal and political ideologies have trumped what should be the logical approach to the problems that we ourselves have created for ourselves and to all that we hold to be moral truths.

I brought this conversation froward to only bring the AGW/CC "debate" into proper perspective. You can either embrace your personal/political ideologies or you can heed the warnings of the evidence presented before you and perform accordingly.


Dont bring that fight here!
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From the previous blog:

Quoting AGWcreationists:
Tell me exactly how carbon emissions can be curtailed without a dramatic change to American lifestyles.

That is the true issue here. And the reason why it will be so difficult to reduce carbon emissions.

It goes beyond the realm of science into the personal and political.




The personal and political aspects of AGW/CC are only attempts to escape the reality of what the science tells us. Unfortunately, you are correct that personal and political ideologies have trumped what should be the logical approach to the problems that we ourselves have created for ourselves and to all that we hold to be moral truths.

I brought this conversation froward to only bring the AGW/CC "debate" into proper perspective. You can either embrace your personal/political ideologies or you can heed the warnings of the evidence presented before you and perform accordingly.
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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