Category 3 Tropical Cyclone Evan bearing down on Fiji

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 5:19 PM GMT on December 16, 2012

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Category 3 Tropical Cyclone Evan is closing in on the main island of Fiji, where hurricane warnings are flying and torrential rains are already falling. Radar images from Fiji show that the large eye of Evan is just north of the two main islands of Fiji. The expected southwesterly track of the storm should keep the calm of the eye just north of Fiji, though the southern eyewall may brush the north coast of the main island of Vici Leva, affecting the tourist town of Nadi. Evan has intensified today to its strongest level yet, with 120 mph winds, and satellite loops show that the storm remains well-organized, with plenty of intense heavy thunderstorm activity and a prominent eye. Evan will be in a region with moderate wind shear of 15 - 20 knots as it approaches Fiji, and could intensify by another 5 - 10 mph before making its closest pass to the islands later today. According to NOAA's Coastal Services Center, Evan is the strongest tropical cyclone to threaten Fiji since Tropical Cyclone Daman of December 2007. Dating back to 1972, twelve Category 3 or stronger tropical cyclones have threatened the Republic of Fiji.


Figure 1. Radar image from the Fiji weather service showing the large eye of Tropical Cyclone Evan just north of Fiji.

Severe damage in Samoa from Evan
Evan made landfall on the north shore of Samoa near the capital of Apia on Thursday as a Category 1 cyclone with 90 mph winds, and intensified into a Category 3 storm with 115 mph after the eye wandered back offshore late Thursday. Media reports indicate that Evan killed four and has left eight missing on Samoa, and left at least 4,000 homeless. The main power plant for Samoa was destroyed, and it is expected that power will be out to almost all of Samoa for at least ten more days. Evan was one of Samoa's most destructive tropical cyclones on record, as discussed by wunderground's weather historian, Christopher C. Burt.


Figure 2. True-color MODIS satellite image of Tropical Cyclone Evan nearing Fiji at 01:35 UTC December 16, 2012. At the time, Evan was a Category 3 storm with 115 mph winds. Image credit: NASA.

Jeff Masters

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394. Neapolitan
8:31 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
When guns are outlawed, the psychos of this world will find another way to wreak carnage. Drive an SUV thru a pee wee football game or a backpack full of molotov cocktails into a daycare for a couple of grim examples. What do we do when those type of attacks occur? Outlaw automobiles or bottles? Mental health is the problem. Responsible adults can own firearms responsibly. The psychos' mom was irresponsible by not having her guns in a gun safe where the fruitcake couldn't get to them.
Silly argument.

Cars are for transporting people and things.

Bottles are for transporting and holding liquids.

Guns are for destroying living flesh and killing living things.

See the difference?
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13455
393. eddye
4:20 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
skyepony when are we going 2 have 30 and also mid 30 are we going 2 have it near new years
Member Since: August 12, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1204
392. WunderAlertBot (Admin)
4:17 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
JeffMasters has created a new entry.
391. PensacolaDoug
4:17 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting Tazmanian:
this is a weather blog not a place too be talking gunes and what happen at that school take that talk too your own blogs





Don't spaz, Taz.
Member Since: July 25, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 551
390. bappit
4:14 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 5935
389. RitaEvac
4:13 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
What the media doesn't want you to know... what happened this weekend alone after the school shooting. As the chaos is beginning to rev up.

Saturday
Man fires some 50 shots at Calif. mall parking lot

Sunday
San Antonio Movie Theater Shooting: Gunman Shoots 1 In Theater Parking Lot
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 9628
388. RitaEvac
4:06 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Downloaded the the IOS6 on my Iphone, since Google Maps is allowed as an app on the phones. I have the Weather Underground app installed and it used to use Google maps for radar and what not, now Apple Maps is used on the radar map, how the hell is that possible?? How can the phone override the app and swipe out the Google maps on weather-underground app... that would be infringement, because Wunderground uses Google maps for it's background displays.
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 9628
387. pcola57
4:05 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Heavy lightening around me now..gonna shut the 'puter down..
BBL..
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6770
386. AGWcreationists
4:03 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting lahcuts:
For those concerned with more guns carried by law abiding citizens being more of a problem, this might put things in a different prespective: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-oNMHNrS-8

Further, Israel teachers carry guns: http://gunowners.org/op0218.htm Isreali and
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/israel

Consider the number of years semiautomatic rifles have been available and sold and the number of high capacity magazines sold in this time and one thinks that banning them now will prevent further violence? Really? Give this more factual thought (data driven, not cherry picked) rather than taking an emotional view and see what conclusions one comes to regardless of their emotions (if one can do that). Try not to generalize and be more specific. Google some of your questions and see the thousands of points of view and data, some pro, some con, and come up with a rational view of the situation. You might be surprised.

The weather here in NEO is relatively warm for this time of the year (43 deg) but cloudy and dreary.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confr onts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

Clackamas mall shooter faced shopper with concealed weapon permit

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.

"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.

The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

-----------

So Meli did not randomly unleash fire, he was aware of other persons in the field of fire.

But it looks like the perp knew he could not continue shooting because he had a gun trained on him.

And two people died, not dozens.
Member Since: November 25, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 489
385. Skyepony (Mod)
4:03 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Hurricane Sandy debris is being up-cycled into furniture to be auctioned to benefit Sandy victims.

Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37300
384. Skyepony (Mod)
3:58 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting eddye:
skyepony how cold is that that the gfs shows that u posted


For Orlando almost in the 40s (lower 50s)..that's the 850mb so figure a little warmer at the surface.
Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37300
383. pcola57
3:56 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
1 KM Visible Satellite for Florida


1 KM Visible Satellite for Alabama


1 KM Visible Satellite for Mississippi
Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6770
382. pcola57
3:51 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Good Morning All,
Looks like I'm in for some stormy wearther this am..

Member Since: August 13, 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 6770
381. eddye
3:49 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
skyepony how cold is that that the gfs shows that u posted
Member Since: August 12, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1204
380. bappit
3:41 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Fish tornado strikes Cabo Pulmo National Park in Mexico
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 5935
379. bappit
3:38 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
http://www.fijitimes.com/

"Update: 10:36PM POLICE officers in all divisions have restricted the movement of people in and out of main towns and cities as Tropical Cyclone Evan hits the country.

"They will advise those who don't need to be in town or city at this time to go back to their homes and limit movement as much as possible.

"Commissioner Western Commander Joeli Cawaki has placed a restriction order for urban areas in the West with effect from 7pm today to 6am tomorrow, a police statement said.

"The police statement said it was also being done to protect businesses from those who may want to take advantage of the situation."

It is 4:37 AM there now so the curfew has a bit over an hour to go.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 5935
378. Skyepony (Mod)
3:36 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Oregon is already loosing electricity.

At 6 a.m., PGE reported 65 outages in Clackamas County, affecting nearly 5,000 customers. The largest outages were in the Eagle Creek, Damascus, Sandy and Boring areas. All of the outages were due to high winds blowing trees and limbs onto wires.
Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37300
377. bappit
3:32 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
WU headline

Major Winter Storm Slams Pacific Northwest
A major Winter storm is slamming the Pacific Northwest, where up to 3 feet of new snow is possible for the higher elevations of Washington and Oregon through Monday.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 5935
376. aspectre
3:32 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
351 jeffs713: It is a slippery slope.

Yep, stands to reason. Pass a law agin murder, and the next thing ya know it'll be illegal to breathe.
Member Since: August 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 4860
375. washingtonian115
3:31 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting Skyepony:
Looks like a few of the comments have disappeared.. No surprise..this blog has wrecked & is starting to catch a fire.




GFS shows a good cool down. I think the ECMWF has been running cooler.

Just as long as I get my cold.I've been looking in the longer range and it's like winter 010-11 all over again.It get's cold but when parcipitation arrives it gets warmer and instead rains.
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 10 Comments: 16362
374. lahcuts
3:30 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
For those concerned with more guns carried by law abiding citizens being more of a problem, this might put things in a different prespective: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-oNMHNrS-8

Further, Israel teachers carry guns: http://gunowners.org/op0218.htm Isreali and
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/israel

Consider the number of years semiautomatic rifles have been available and sold and the number of high capacity magazines sold in this time and one thinks that banning them now will prevent further violence? Really? Give this more factual thought (data driven, not cherry picked) rather than taking an emotional view and see what conclusions one comes to regardless of their emotions (if one can do that). Try not to generalize and be more specific. Google some of your questions and see the thousands of points of view and data, some pro, some con, and come up with a rational view of the situation. You might be surprised.

The weather here in NEO is relatively warm for this time of the year (43 deg) but cloudy and dreary.
Member Since: November 9, 2001 Posts: 0 Comments: 17
373. Tazmanian
3:28 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
this is a weather blog not a place too be talking gunes and what happen at that school take that talk too your own blogs
Member Since: May 21, 2006 Posts: 5091 Comments: 114696
372. Skyepony (Mod)
3:27 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
MS river is about to be closed all but 8hrs a day while some submerged granite pinnacles near Thebes, Ill. are blasted out of the way starting Tuesday. Drought & lowering water levels continue. More here.
Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37300
371. Skyepony (Mod)
3:23 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
A major winter storm is headed to the Puget Sound, with high winds, mountain snowfall and a snow level around 500 feet forecasted through Monday morning. Tidal overflows are also a possibility. The full force of the storm is expected to hit Sunday evening through Monday morning. The National Weather Service issued a high wind warning for the central coast from 12 a.m. Monday through 10 a.m. Monday. Gusts for the coasts will be around 70 mph. Wind in Seattle and Tacoma could be as fast as 60 MPH. Puget Sound Energy has geared up in preparation of the incoming storm, and extra power crews are on standby, officials said. Energy officials encouraged residents to prep for a major storm by keeping emergency kits handy, unplugging sensitive electronic equipment and knowing what natural gas appliances will continue to operate during a power outage.
More here.

Saw Shaun put out a new blog on this storm hitting on the west coast too..
Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37300
370. Skyepony (Mod)
3:17 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Looks like a few of the comments have disappeared.. No surprise..this blog has wrecked & is starting to catch a fire.


Quoting eddye:
how cold does the gfs show for orlando this weekend because i just typed in orlando fl and it shows 39 but is that correct has anyone look at the models for near christmas time for south fla someone told me it shows low 40


GFS shows a good cool down. I think the ECMWF has been running cooler.

Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 161 Comments: 37300
369. AussieStorm
3:12 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Forced to take shelter from Cyclone Evan's wrath

HOUSANDS of Australian tourists are stranded in Fiji after tropical cyclone Evan lashed the islands yesterday, destroying villages and leaving behind a trail of destruction that is estimated to cost the Pacific Island nation billions of dollars.

More than 2100 Australians will wake up in Nadi, Lautoka and Suva this morning after a wild night bunkered down in their hotel rooms as wind gusts reached 270km/h, bringing down trees on to homes and ripping roofs off.

Fijian tourism officials last night reported that 2700 holidaymakers had fled their resorts and moved to hotels closer to Nadi airport.

The Fijian government ordered 400 troops to the worst hit areas and officials warned villagers to brace themselves for a 3m tidal surge overnight.
Cyclone Evan tore through Fiji about 2.30pm (AEST) yesterday with the northern town of Lautoka, Fiji's second biggest city, hammered by winds of up to 155km/h, with houses and shops being blown away and buildings flooded. Locals described the scene as resembling a "war zone".
Foreign Minister Bob Carr last night said there were 2100 Australians - including 680 schoolies - registered with the government as currently being in Fiji, with many more believed to be unregistered.

Thousands more Australian families and couples who have booked holidays in Fiji over Christmas have been warned to check the fine print in their travel insurance policies if they need to cancel.

Insurance Council of Australia CEO Rob Whelan said most policies would cover cancellations caused by the cyclone, "depending on the circumstances".

"Anyone heading to the South Pacific soon, and anyone stranded due to the cyclone, should check their travel insurance policies to determine if their provider will compensate them for flight and accommodation cancellations," Mr Whelan said.

Australian Jarrod Harman, who is holidaying at the Sheraton on Denarau Island with his partner, told The Daily Telegraph yesterday all the surrounding islands had been evacuated in the morning. They were told to assemble in the ballroom as the cyclone hit.

"It's pretty bad outside. Extremely windy at the moment and it's supposed to get even worse," he said.

Former Australian rugby league player Petero Civoniceva said his grandmother was living in Suva on the southern side of the island.

"She's a tough lady and I'm sure she'll be all right," the NRL star said.
"(Cyclones) are part and parcel with living in Fiji. Unfortunately it happens over there and there's nothing you can really do except wait until it's over."

A Defence spokeswoman last night said AusAID had been assigned as the lead agency in the relief effort.

Local residents said Evan's damage bill could exceed Cyclone Bebe, which killed 18 people, and Cyclone Kina that killed 23 people in 1993.

Cyclone Evan last week left a trail of destruction in Samoa's capital Apia, killing four islanders.

The Fijian government last night warned residents to avoid flooded streets and told government workers to stay away from work today. Evacuation centres were set up at Raiwaqa and Navua and communications in Levuka and Kadavu were cut off.

Local media reported that more than 3000 locals were staying in evacuation centres with the Navua River expected to break its banks.

In a message posted online, the staff at Lolomas Castaway Island, off the coast of Nadi,- said they were having a difficult time as the cyclone passed. They were unable to be reached when The Daily Telegraph rang yesterday.

"So far our staff and management are safe however our little island paradise has been battered by very strong winds estimated to be up to 280km/h," they wrote.

Geelong newlyweds Ben and Nicole Gargan were among hundreds of Australian tourists in lockdown. They are in the final days of their honeymoon on Denarau Island, just a few hundred metres off the mainland.

"They were meant to fly out on Tuesday, so we're not sure when they will be leaving," said Ben's brother Troy.

In the western parts of the country, all hotels have been advised to store their own water for their own safety until operations normalise.

Geoff Chambers, Nathan Klein and Carleen Frost
News Limited Network
December 18, 2012 12:00AM
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
368. aspectre
3:10 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
ncstorm: PUT GOD BACK IN THE SCHOOLS

Precisely how does one keep God out of school?
It ain't as if ya can go the store and buy a can of Raid God-Repellent.
And compared to the RedSea, parting fences don't seem all that much of a problem.
Member Since: August 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 4860
367. Marshalldoc
3:09 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Hi all, I've run into a minor issue and hope some of you weather mavens can sort it our for me.

I'm tracking T.C. Evan and recording its positions on Google Earth. I was linking images from this site's storm tracking to the poistion on Google Earth (initially), then from the NOAA 'Floater' site until I understood that the images at these locations aren't stored.

Consequently, the image I linked to a position a week ago, shows today's image.

Is there a site that archives sat images that can be linked to and expect they'll be there in a year?
Member Since: August 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 3
366. AGWcreationists
3:05 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting KarenRei:


The UK's murder rate is a little over a quarter that of the US's (1,2 vs. 4,2 per 100.000 per year). So can I then take your post as support of gun control, since you chose the UK example yourself?

We are getting close to the day when someone could use 3-d printing to create a fully-functional semi-auto rifle.


We're about a century from that being a realistic option for your average person. Nobody, anywhere has ever printed a barrel, with any kind of machine, no matter how expensive (let alone consumer-grade - consumer grade 3d printers being things that almost nobody has anyway). They've printed a stock, but well, gee, color me unimpressed. There's a world of difference between laying out little crude globs of plastic into a shape and automatically machining precision steel components.

A realist realizes that if you disarm the law-abiding, that puts them at a distinct disadvantage.


No, the word for a person who thinks that having random civilians add to a hail of gunfire and having everyone who experiences any moment of rage have a gun on hand to act on it will decrease the death rate is "idiot".

Chicago has very strict gun laws and a lot of firearms murders.


Why Chicago in particular? NYC's gun laws are more onerous than Chicago's, but they have half the murder rate. And SCOTUS crippled most city gun laws anyway.
First of all, I am pointing out that you can outlaw guns but criminals will still get them and use them. And in the US, a strong majority of both perps and victims in homicides have criminal records. You would be doing little to deter those people.

Second, it will be easy to make your own high-capacity clips with 3-D printing and that seems to be the main issue you have. So, as another person noted, when your approach fails, it's down the slippery slope to eventual gun confiscation because none of it would work to the desired intent.

Third, please point me to articles detailing where legal CCW holders went into a fit of rage and sent a hail of bullets into crowds, or engaged in a wanton shootout. Hint, you will find very few. You WILL find plenty of articles about CCW holders stopping violent crime, often at the direct benefit of strangers in public.

Fourth, Chicago still has the most strict gun laws in the country and is making every attempt to dodge application of Heller. Yet the homicide rate there skyrockets.

And fifth, a really nice job of dodging the root cause of that spiking Chicago violence - drug-related shootings. Hint - those gang-bangers won't obey your gun-control laws.
Member Since: November 25, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 489
365. SafeInTexas
2:58 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting KarenRei:

Please explain to me why America is one of the only first world country that this won't work for, since almost everyone else does this already without problems.



Without problems? Lots of countries have gun control, the level of problems that occur vary greatly. One of the biggest issues you are going to have in the U.S. is a huge portion of the population is unwilling to be disarmed and already highly armed.

"...best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of American households owning 260 million guns."

Most other countries with successful gun bans have had much lower gun ownership numbers.

The other issue is the design and history of the American government. The right to own guns is integrated in to our culture.

People brewed up liquor and distributed it during prohibition very well. Meth, cocaine, and weed is plentiful and supports a huge criminal black market. A manufactured gun black market seems like it would prosper.

Member Since: September 19, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 64
364. eddye
2:53 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
how cold does the gfs show for orlando this weekend because i just typed in orlando fl and it shows 39 but is that correct has anyone look at the models for near christmas time for south fla someone told me it shows low 40
Member Since: August 12, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1204
363. nymore
2:50 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
I will ask again What makes it an assault weapon? Is it how it looks? The guns used were Semi-auto NOT fully auto. If I take my deer hunting rifle (Which by the way is way more powerful than a .223 caliber) and put a bigger clip in it is it an assault weapon. It does not look like one but is much more deadly than his Bushmaster.

FWIW in a close combat area where killing everyone is the main point. I will take a 12 gauge pump with a drum magazine, because if it jams I can easily clear it. Is a 12 gauge shotgun an assault weapon. I can shoot my 870 pump pretty much just as fast as my 1187 auto.

One more thing a .223 cal is made to wound on the battlefield and not kill as much, Reason a wounded soldier is a much bigger problem for the enemy than a dead one.

Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2255
362. KarenRei
2:49 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting AGWcreationists:
Now, just how do you realistically go about doing that? Britain has all-but outlawed private gun ownership, is an island nation, and still has a growing gun crime problem.


The UK's murder rate is a little over a quarter that of the US's (1,2 vs. 4,2 per 100.000 per year). So can I then take your post as support of gun control, since you chose the UK example yourself?

We are getting close to the day when someone could use 3-d printing to create a fully-functional semi-auto rifle.


We're about a century from that being a realistic option for your average person. Nobody, anywhere has ever printed a barrel, with any kind of machine, no matter how expensive (let alone consumer-grade - consumer grade 3d printers being things that almost nobody has anyway). They've printed a stock, but well, gee, color me unimpressed. There's a world of difference between laying out little crude globs of plastic into a shape and automatically machining precision steel components.

A realist realizes that if you disarm the law-abiding, that puts them at a distinct disadvantage.


No, the word for a person who thinks that having random civilians add to a hail of gunfire and having everyone who experiences any moment of rage have a gun on hand to act on it will decrease the death rate is "idiot".

Chicago has very strict gun laws and a lot of firearms murders.


Why Chicago in particular? NYC's gun laws are more onerous than Chicago's, but they have half the murder rate. And SCOTUS crippled most city gun laws anyway.
Member Since: September 7, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 937
361. Jedkins01
2:45 PM GMT on December 17, 2012


Quoting jeffs713:

The lack of prayer in school isn't the issue. My school never had prayer during the day, and we never had a mass shooting. Forcing a religion or belief on children that don't have the cognitive capacity to understand fully what they are being told (or able to make a decision for themselves) is wrong. Making the child get a note from their parents to be "excused" is not only wrong, but sets up the child for exclusion from other activities... basically, discrimination.

We are a secular country. That is, one without a state religion, and one separate from religion. Our Constitution, the "law of the land", does not contain the word "God" anywhere in its text, or its amendments. The only reference to religion is the one establishing the freedom thereof. By forcing prayer in schools, or even allowing it during instructional time, you set up a standard, and precedent. How would you feel if your child went to a public school where they had to say 10 hail marys, or pray towards Mecca every day? Its the same thing.

We are a free country - free to practice what we like, without fear of retribution or discrimination. While that leaves you free to practice what you like, it does not leave you free to exclude others to practice what they like.

Instead of "putting God back into schools" (he was never really there to take away, in an official sense), how about making parents responsible for raising their children? How about taking the sensationalism away from the media? How about making mental healthcare actually accessible to a majority of the country? How about teaching our children morals, respect, and responsibility?

When a doctor treats a patient, they don't treat the symptoms, they treat the cause. We shouldn't make this a political event, and rail on about gun control, and God in school... this is a societal and cultural issue - and it should be dealt with as such.



Right on target, great post!
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7266
360. washingtonian115
2:43 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting jeffs713:

LOL.

My wife asked me about what happened, since I read the news a lot, and am usually well informed. (I had not said anything about it, because it upsets me so much) When I started explaining what happened, she actually had to calm me down, because I was getting so angry. In over 3-1/2 years of knowing me, she had never seen me so visibly angry at a situation.

There are a few things in the world that completely set me off, and raise my blood pressure by 20-30 points. This is one of them. The lack of parenting skills involved with so many of our children is an absolute travesty. Combine that with people trying to score political points during a tragedy, and people trying to force their opinions on others... bad things happen to my level of irritation.

Thing that sets me off pet peeve pet peeve = Rants by Jeffs713.
Seeing this event has also put me in such a angry state.I actually went to bed crying on friday and my husband had to calm me down.I'm still upset about what happened.Scoring political events during a tragedy is quite selfish if you ask me.I'm a christian but forcing kids to learn about others religion they don't worship isn't right at all.
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 10 Comments: 16362
359. jeffs713
2:41 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting CybrTeddy:
With the amount of arguing on here, you'd think it was still hurricane season.

I don't see arguing... I see passionate opinions, but no yelling or arguing. Yet.
Member Since: August 3, 2008 Posts: 16 Comments: 5871
358. CybrTeddy
2:40 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
With the amount of arguing on here, you'd think it was still hurricane season.
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 259 Comments: 23560
357. KarenRei
2:38 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting FunnelVortex:
For those that are for gun control. Remember prohobition people!


So people are going to brew up bathtub-automatic rifles with extended clips and distribute them en masse as common and as effective as today? Is that the concept here?

Please explain to me why America is one of the only first world country that this won't work for, since almost everyone else does this already without problems.

Member Since: September 7, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 937
356. jeffs713
2:37 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting washingtonian115:
Are you sure your not a lawyer or a judge rather than a doctor?.lol

LOL.

My wife asked me about what happened, since I read the news a lot, and am usually well informed. (I had not said anything about it, because it upsets me so much) When I started explaining what happened, she actually had to calm me down, because I was getting so angry. In over 3-1/2 years of knowing me, she had never seen me so visibly angry at a situation.

There are a few things in the world that completely set me off, and raise my blood pressure by 20-30 points. This is one of them. The lack of parenting skills involved with so many of our children is an absolute travesty. Combine that with people trying to score political points during a tragedy, and people trying to force their opinions on others... bad things happen to my level of irritation.
Member Since: August 3, 2008 Posts: 16 Comments: 5871
355. AGWcreationists
2:37 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting KarenRei:


Yes, when you eliminate solutions designed *specifically* for killing large numbers of people, psychos will find whatever *inferior options which aren't as good at killing people* as they can.

Now, could you explain to me why that's not a major improvement?
Now, just how do you realistically go about doing that? Britain has all-but outlawed private gun ownership, is an island nation, and still has a growing gun crime problem. We are getting close to the day when someone could use 3-d printing to create a fully-functional semi-auto rifle.

The idealist pines for a way to get rid of weapons. A realist realizes that if you disarm the law-abiding, that puts them at a distinct disadvantage. Chicago has very strict gun laws and a lot of firearms murders. Something else is the problem (hint, also reference what happened in Chicago the last time we created a massive black market, back in the 1920s).
Member Since: November 25, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 489
354. calkevin77
2:36 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
When guns are outlawed, the psychos of this world will find another way to wreak carnage. Drive an SUV thru a pee wee football game or a backpack full of molotov cocktails into a daycare for a couple of grim examples. What do we do when those type of attacks occur? Outlaw automobiles or bottles? Mental health is the problem. Responsible adults can own firearms responsibly. The psychos' mom was irresponsible by not having her guns in a gun safe where the fruitcake couldn't get to them.


I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone who is willing to commit such an evil act as what happened on Friday would do so regardless of the weapon. Hypothetically even if we as a country banned firearms outright, criminals would find another method of mass casualty (pipe bombs, homemade destructive devices etc.) As for gun control I believe this country needs to institute a better vetting & registration process for individuals who would like to responsibly own firearms. This also includes ammunition as well as severe penalties for any crimes commissioned with the use of a gun. I see both sides of the gun control issue, however. After all who wouldn%u2019t as we saw innocent children snuffed out at the hands of a nut job with a military style weapon. I%u2019m personally a gun owner and I ensure that my guns are locked away when not in use and it would be my liability if such guns were used to commit such crimes. My view and opinion, however, is that I like the thought of the %u201Cgood guys%u201D being able to defend themselves and their families from such criminals as I%u2019m pretty sure that anyone who%u2019s willing to commit such a crime is probably not going to care enough about any gun laws let alone his/her life to not possess a weapon. With that said you come into my house and try to hurt me or my family and you will be on the business end of my 12 gauge. The truth is that regardless of control measures, what we must do is secure our schools better. The status quo is not working. I%u2019d rather not wait around for Washington and its pencil pushers to figure out what to do with GC when our most precious resources can be slaughtered like lambs. Everyone regardless of political stance probably agrees with that. Whether that means posting two armed security guards or cops on campuses at all times so be it. Also I%u2019d like to know that some Tom Dick and Harry can%u2019t just walk into my kid%u2019s elementary school, so if this means locking down and checking in every visitor or parent that accesses the school then so be it. We live in a different time and have seen that terrorism isn%u2019t always in the form of a hijacked plane or originates from overseas.
Member Since: June 9, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 838
353. CaicosRetiredSailor
2:33 PM GMT on December 17, 2012

Improving the Tropical Cyclone Climate Record
16 December 2012
Guest Commentary by Christopher Hennon (UNC Asheville)

Get involved in a new citizen science project at CycloneCenter.org.

The poor quality of the tropical cyclone (TC) data record provides severe constraints on the ability of climate scientists to: a) determine to what degree TCs have responded to shifts in climate, b) evaluate theories on how TCs will respond to climate change in the future. The root cause for the poor data is the severity of the TC conditions (e.g. high wind, rough seas) and the remoteness of these storms – the vast majority of which form and remain well away from most observing networks. Thus, most TCs are not observed directly and those that are (with buoys, aircraft reconnaissance, ships) are often not sampled sufficiently (see the IBTrACS, (Knapp et al., 2010)).
...

A new crowd sourcing project, called Cyclone Center, embraces the human element by enabling the public to perform a simplified version of the Dvorak Technique to analyze historical global tropical cyclone (TC) intensities (Hennon, 2012). Cyclone Center’s primary goal is to resolve discrepancies in the recent global TC record arising principally from inconsistent development of tropical cyclone intensity data. The Cyclone Center technique standardizes the classification procedure by condensing the Dvorak Technique to a few simple questions that can be answered by global, nonprofessional users.

One of the main advantages of this approach is the inclusion of thousands of users, instead of the 1-3 who would normally classify a TC image. This allows the computation of measures of uncertainty in addition to a mean intensity. Nearly 300,000 images, encompassing all global TCs that formed from 1978-2009, will be classified 30 times each – a feat that would take a dedicated team of twenty Dvorak-trained experts about 12 years to complete. Citizen scientists have already performed over 100,000 classifications since the project launch in September. Once the project is complete, a new dataset of global TC tracks and intensities will be made available to the community to contribute to our efforts to provide the best possible TC data record.

Interested readers are encouraged to learn more about and participate in the project at the cyclonecenter.org website (there are some FAQ on the project blog). The CycloneCenter project is a collaboration between the Citizen Science Alliance, NOAA National Climatic Data Center (NCDC), University of North Carolina at Asheville, and the Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites (CICS) – North Carolina.


http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/201 2/12/improving-the-tropical-cyclone-climate-record /
Member Since: July 12, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 5995
352. washingtonian115
2:33 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting jeffs713:

The lack of prayer in school isn't the issue. My school never had prayer during the day, and we never had a mass shooting. Forcing a religion or belief on children that don't have the cognitive capacity to understand fully what they are being told (or able to make a decision for themselves) is wrong. Making the child get a note from their parents to be "excused" is not only wrong, but sets up the child for exclusion from other activities... basically, discrimination.

We are a secular country. That is, one without a state religion, and one separate from religion. Our Constitution, the "law of the land", does not contain the word "God" anywhere in its text, or its amendments. The only reference to religion is the one establishing the freedom thereof. By forcing prayer in schools, or even allowing it during instructional time, you set up a standard, and precedent. How would you feel if your child went to a public school where they had to say 10 hail marys, or pray towards Mecca every day? Its the same thing.

We are a free country - free to practice what we like, without fear of retribution or discrimination. While that leaves you free to practice what you like, it does not leave you free to exclude others to practice what they like.

Instead of "putting God back into schools" (he was never really there to take away, in an official sense), how about making parents responsible for raising their children? How about taking the sensationalism away from the media? How about making mental healthcare actually accessible to a majority of the country? How about teaching our children morals, respect, and responsibility?

When a doctor treats a patient, they don't treat the symptoms, they treat the cause. We shouldn't make this a political event, and rail on about gun control, and God in school... this is a societal and cultural issue - and it should be dealt with as such.
Are you sure your not a lawyer or a judge rather than a doctor?.lol
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 10 Comments: 16362
351. jeffs713
2:33 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting KarenRei:


Yes, when you eliminate solutions designed *specifically* for killing large numbers of people, psychos will find whatever *inferior options which aren't as good at killing people* as they can.

Now, could you explain to me why that's not a major improvement?

It is a slippery slope. Take away the rights to own one type of item, and it is easy to expand it to other items in the same category.
Member Since: August 3, 2008 Posts: 16 Comments: 5871
350. jeffs713
2:32 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting ncstorm:




thats our problem Jedkins,using the argument about amendments, "freedoms", and what government shouldnt be able to do..when I was in elementary school, we had prayer, if you didnt want to participate it was something as simple as having your parent write you a note and you being excused during that time..no one was scrutinized if they choose the latter..during that time, I dont remember any mass school shootings while growing up..since then we tried it the political "correct" way in removing prayer out of school and we have seen the consequences of those actions, I would be interested to know how many mass school shootings we have had since prayer was removed from school and how many mass school shootings we had when prayer was allowed in school..Im pretty certain the numbers after prayer was removed will far outnumber those when we had prayer in school..

The lack of prayer in school isn't the issue. My school never had prayer during the day, and we never had a mass shooting. Forcing a religion or belief on children that don't have the cognitive capacity to understand fully what they are being told (or able to make a decision for themselves) is wrong. Making the child get a note from their parents to be "excused" is not only wrong, but sets up the child for exclusion from other activities... basically, discrimination.

We are a secular country. That is, one without a state religion, and one separate from religion. Our Constitution, the "law of the land", does not contain the word "God" anywhere in its text, or its amendments. The only reference to religion is the one establishing the freedom thereof. By forcing prayer in schools, or even allowing it during instructional time, you set up a standard, and precedent. How would you feel if your child went to a public school where they had to say 10 hail marys, or pray towards Mecca every day? Its the same thing.

We are a free country - free to practice what we like, without fear of retribution or discrimination. While that leaves you free to practice what you like, it does not leave you free to exclude others to practice what they like.

Instead of "putting God back into schools" (he was never really there to take away, in an official sense), how about making parents responsible for raising their children? How about taking the sensationalism away from the media? How about making mental healthcare actually accessible to a majority of the country? How about teaching our children morals, respect, and responsibility?

When a doctor treats a patient, they don't treat the symptoms, they treat the cause. We shouldn't make this a political event, and rail on about gun control, and God in school... this is a societal and cultural issue - and it should be dealt with as such.
Member Since: August 3, 2008 Posts: 16 Comments: 5871
349. FunnelVortex
2:31 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
For those that are for gun control. Remember prohobition people!
Member Since: October 20, 2012 Posts: 7 Comments: 2873
348. KarenRei
2:27 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting PensacolaDoug:
When guns are outlawed, the psychos of this world will find another way to wreak carnage.


Yes, when you eliminate solutions designed *specifically* for killing large numbers of people, psychos will find whatever *inferior options which aren't as good at killing people* as they can.

Now, could you explain to me why that's not a major improvement?
Member Since: September 7, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 937
347. washingtonian115
2:26 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
It's to warm for December!.Interesting enough 12/21/12 will be our coldest day of the week.lol.We won't be getting no snow through the next week or two.2012 started snowless and will be ending snowless.
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 10 Comments: 16362
346. jeffs713
2:20 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting ncstorm:
The below needs to happen in order to prevent terrible tragedies of mass murderers shooting in public places

1. Hands On Parenting..stop leaving TV, internet and video games to raise our children
2. Media Sensationlism of murderers, violence, etc needs to END!!
3. Violence commonly depicted and easily accessible on Television, Movies,Internet and Video Games has to stop
4. STRICTER Gun Control Laws
5. Remove sale of weapons from Walmart and any other family shopping center
6. PUT GOD BACK IN THE SCHOOLS

Good night and please remember the families, the little angels, the brave teachers, first responders in your prayers..






Which God? The Christian one? The Islamic one? The Buddhist one? By their very nature, you can't prominently feature one without excluding the others. And if you go without featuring one, you aren't really putting "God" into schools.

And as a note... look in the US Constitution. Not once in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights (or any amendments, for that matter) does it say the word "God". Not Once. We are, by definition, a secular country... that is... one separate from religion.

What you believe may not be what everyone else believes. Please don't force what you believe on everyone else - especially in a time of crisis.
Member Since: August 3, 2008 Posts: 16 Comments: 5871
345. AGWcreationists
2:18 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting ncstorm:




thats our problem Jedkins,using the argument about amendments, "freedoms", and what government shouldnt be able to do..when I was in elementary school, we had prayer, if you didnt want to participate it was something as simple as having your parent write you a note and you being excused during that time..no one was scrutinized if they choose the latter..during that time, I dont remember any mass school shootings while growing up..since then we tried it the political "correct" way in removing prayer out of school and we have seen the consequences of those actions, I would be interested to know how many mass school shootings we have had since prayer was removed from school and how many mass school shootings we had when prayer was allowed in school..Im pretty certain the numbers after prayer was removed will far outnumber those when we had prayer in school..
Without getting into the respective debate about prayer in schools, I would also put forth that we have seen changes in family structure that cause a lot of problems for children, as well as a vast increase in the amount of violent images children see growing up on TV and movies.
Member Since: November 25, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 489
344. AGWcreationists
2:14 PM GMT on December 17, 2012
Quoting Neapolitan:
We've heard that claim often over the past few days, as we did after Aurora, and after Columbine before that, and so on. But it's a hollow claim, if you ask me, and in my opinion about as logical as complaining about the food safety lobby "using" deaths from botulism and salmonella to promote a political agenda.

At any rate, what is the "anti gun" lobby? I personally prefer to call it the "parents who believe their children have a right to go to school or the movie theater and not be slaughtered by a lunatic brandishing weapons designed solely for soldiers killing enemy combatants on the battlefield" lobby.
First of all, all basic firearms designs were initially military weapons. An 'assualt rifle' is not a true current military weapon, it is semi-auto and not full auto.

Second, even strict rules on registration, storage and training regarding weapons did not stop Anders Behring Breivik from killing 77 and wounding 151 in otherwise low-violence Norway. There is little that you can do to stop a determined lunatic other than confronting him with force. And that is the problem with gun-free zones - if someone penetrates that zone with weapons, they have free reign for slaughter until someone shows up with a weapon themselves, or if some brave souls get lucky and can jump the perp when he is changing magazines (like what happened in the Arizona shootings) - a very small time window.

Israelis would like the 'right' for their children to not face threats of murder in their schools. But they know that will not happen in the near future, so there are armed guards at Israeli schools. Likewise, if a couple of principals were armed with weapons in secure storage in their office, they could confront a gunman before dozens of lives have been taken. That way no guns are regularly in the classrooms but they are available in case of a violent invasion. No guarantee they could stop the lunatic, but they would at least have a fighting chance and also maybe give an opportunity for students and teachers to escape. And they know their own schools far better than the cops showing up.

For every school shooting, there are defensive uses of guns that don't make the papers or the evening news. I have had to do such once in my life. Did not require me to shoot the weapon or even point it. Just showed the crackhead who had kicked in my door that I had a Mossberg and was getting ready to rack it. He was gone in a flash. Nothing sends someone bent on mayhem into incontinence and flight like the sound of a shotgun being racked or a round being chambered in a semiauto. And there are an estimated 2+ million such defensive uses of weapons each year in this country. Almost all of them simply require brandishing the weapon. A non-violent end to a potentially violent confrontation.

I don't concealed carry. I am big enough to deter just about anyone with size alone and am a crappy shot with a handgun anyway. I do believe carry in public requires training and a high degree of demonstrated competence. But CCW holders are not the problem in this country, they have an extremely low rate of having their permits revoked. I am glad they are around, I hope if I am sucked into a shooting incident one would be around to stop the perp. As the old saying goes, when seconds matter, the cops are minutes away.

It would be nice to live in a world without crackheads, thieves, lunatics and violent drunk husbands. But that ain't changing anytime soon, nor is the war on some drugs that triggers so much of the gun violence in this country. So as long as that exists, people will own guns for self defense. The idea of a gun-free zone being a more-secure place lives in denial of that reality.
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.