Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Category 2 Evan batters Samoa, killing two
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 3:30 PM GMT on December 13, 2012 +33
The Southern Hemisphere tropical cyclone season is beginning to heat up. Category 2 Tropical Cyclone Evan is pounding Samoa and American Samoa with heavy rains and high winds, after making landfall earlier today on the north shore of Samoa near the capital of Apia. At landfall, Evan had a small 10-mile diameter eye and top winds of 90 mph, but has since intensified to 105 mph winds. Media reports indicate that Evan has killed two, and brought a 12 - 15' storm surge, heavy rains, and severe damage to the island nation. Satellite loops show a well-organized storm with a tiny 7-mile diameter eye. Evan has plenty of intense heavy thunderstorm activity near its core, solid upper-level outflow, and is in an area with weak steering currents. Evan is expected to meander over Samoa until about 18 UTC on Friday, when a ridge of high pressure will build in and force the cyclone to the west. The storm will be in a region with light wind shear and very warm ocean waters that extend to great depth, and could intensify into a Category 3 or 4 cyclone by this weekend. On Sunday, when the ECMWF model predicts that Evan will be near Fiji, the storm will encounter increasing wind shear and should weaken.


Figure 1. True-color MODIS satellite image of Tropical Cyclone Evan over Samoa at 01:05 UTC December 13, 2012. At the time, Evan was a Category 1 storm with 90 mph winds. Image credit: NASA.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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101. trHUrrIXC5MMX 7:13 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Very bad there in Samoa...

Meanwhile look at that huge 948 mb south of Greenland



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102. ChillinInTheKeys 7:13 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting nymore:

You can get frost on the ground if the temp is above freezing because the actual temp is taken at approx 6 ft above the ground. But the wind does not lower the actual temp.

Take a fan and turn it on and put a thermometer in front of it the temp will not change because of the wind.

The temperature of the water on the cars surface can cool further than the surrounding air temperature due to evaporation though.
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103. trHUrrIXC5MMX 7:18 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
I was looking for pics about the West VA highway explosion the other day...this is what I found

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104. all4hurricanes 7:19 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting nymore:

You can get frost on the ground if the temp is above freezing because the actual temp is taken at approx 6 ft above the ground. But the wind does not lower the actual temp.

Take a fan and turn it on and put a thermometer in front of it the temp will not change because of the wind.

unless the thermometer is wet and the air is not saturated, that's the whole idea behind wet bulb temperature.
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105. MTWX 7:19 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting nymore:

You can get frost on the ground if the temp is above freezing because the actual temp is taken at approx 6 ft above the ground. But the wind does not lower the actual temp.

Take a fan and turn it on and put a thermometer in front of it the temp will not change because of the wind.


If the temperature of the car is lower than 32 degrees even if the air temp is higher, the water will still freeze, is the point I was trying to make. I understand what you are getting at. Has nothing to do with wind... (I typed before I really thought it through ;))
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106. kwgirl 7:19 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting Jedkins01:


Well not to be mean, but she was highly exaggerating, freezing temps or anything near have never been recorded in the lower keys.

Also, wind chill wouldn't cause that anyway because wind chill is an equation derived in order to most accurately depict what cold air with a certain amount of wind feels like to the nerve cells in the human body. However, wind chill does not make the temperature any lower, its just the cold air, lacking energy, when it is wind whipped it has greater ability to pull heat away from your body, since thermal energy is a conservative system.

With that said, if anything, wind whipped cold air would help prevent dew from freezing or forming, because wind helps to prevent dew from forming.

You can see the coldest temps ever recorded in Key West via this link to NOAA:

Link

That's my point. My sister has lived in the cold North and knows what she is talking about. She did say it was a thin film, but it was ice. So the temps had to dip down enough for the ice to freeze. That's why I always thought it had to be the wind to cause that.
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107. kwgirl 7:21 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting nymore:


Wind chill is how cold it feels to exposed skin, It does not actually cool the temp down. If the temp is 20 outside the coldest your car can get is 20.

Edit: To put it in a way easier for florida ppl to understand, think heat index. The temp may be 90 but with humidity it feels like 105 but the actual temp is still 90
The air temp may be 90 but I bet your car is hotter in the direct sun than 90.
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108. nymore 7:22 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting ChillinInTheKeys:

The temperature of the water on the cars surface can cool further than the surrounding air temperature due to evaporation though.
Quoting all4hurricanes:

unless the thermometer is wet and the air is not saturated, that's the whole idea behind wet bulb temperature.


Agreed but we were talking windchill not evaporational cooling, which by the way works very well in Arizona
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109. Jedkins01 7:23 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting MTWX:


Not necessarily... Wind can cool the surface of the car to the point droplets can freeze... same way frost can occur even when the air temp is above 32 degrees. Guess what I'm getting at is the surface temp of the car is lower than the air temp (think opposite of fog)




That is true if its at or below freezing. Water on a car will not freeze if it's windy and only in the low 40's plain and simple. The only way to due so is if you super cool the surface, or, if its extremely dry and you continue to place water on the surface until enough evaporative cooling takes place, but that would be very difficult, and would have to be practiced with intention.


Dew can freeze when temps are above freezing during a radiational cooling event where the wind goes calm or near calm because surfaces cool much more efficiently. The air is poor conductor of heat, thus, surfaces will cooler first, causing the air near the surface to cool faster then above, proving calm or near calm or sheltered low lying conditions. However, wind whipping across a surface will prevent that. windy weather and temps in the 40's will not freeze dew. Its really not that complicated...


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110. ChillinInTheKeys 7:23 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting nymore:


Agreed but we were talking windchill not evaporational cooling, which by the way works very well in Arizona


Sorry, I thought we were talking about ice forming above 32F.
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112. nymore 7:32 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting kwgirl:
The air temp may be 90 but I bet your car is hotter in the direct sun than 90.
I bet if you put a thermometer out in the direct sun it will read much higher than the actual temp but that is not the actual temp.

Think heat index it feels hotter to you but not the telephone pole

FWIW I live in Northern MN and understand Windchill and its effects quite well
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113. Jedkins01 7:33 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting kwgirl:
That's my point. My sister has lived in the cold North and knows what she is talking about. She did say it was a thin film, but it was ice. So the temps had to dip down enough for the ice to freeze. That's why I always thought it had to be the wind to cause that.



Well the weather service has no record of temps cold enough to due so. If it was a calm clear night, I could believe that it was locally cold enough for a frost as temperatures can vary dramatically over short distances on calm cold nights. However, although not impossible it would have taken ideal radiational cooling to cause that.

But from what you told me, it was the wind that she said caused it. I'm really not trying to be harsh, just stating the nature of the physics involved in this process, either she doesn't know what she is talking about, or she just made a mistake recalling the story to you.

Sorry if it feels like I'm arguing, I don't want to come off cold or arrogant, I'm just trying to give some weather tips.
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114. kwgirl 7:34 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Well this goes to show you that you can still learn something new. So windchill is basically for living things and not inanimate objects. The temp records for Key West have been at the airport which is on the south side of the Island near the water. It must be warmer on that side of the island to account for the lack of 32 degrees and my sister telling she had to scrape ice. I guess you can't argue with "official" records. However, in my mind they are suspect. My sister would never lie to me!LOL
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115. nymore 7:36 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting kwgirl:
Well this goes to show you that you can still learn something new. So windchill is basically for living things and not inanimate objects.


Exactly now you own it
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116. ScottLincoln 7:44 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting bappit:

Interesting link, but when I plug in khgx it says site not available. Rats.


Try using the map link in the upper right. They are based on bufkit profiles, so if the site you entered doesn't have a bufkit profile available, it wont show data for that site.
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117. calkevin77 7:46 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting kwgirl:
The air temp may be 90 but I bet your car is hotter in the direct sun than 90.


And here in TX in the summer you can add another "0" if its out in the sun for more than 20 mins :)
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118. hydrus 7:50 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:
Very bad there in Samoa...

Meanwhile look at that huge 948 mb south of Greenland



Shows well here.
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119. FunnelVortex 7:58 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:


WINTER STORM NAMES - FIRST THREE


Speaking of that. Are idiots still complaining about winter storms being named?
Member Since: October 20, 2012 Posts: 3 Comments: 791
120. MontanaZephyr 8:03 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Off topic:

Someone was asking for the science on this a couple weeks ago, came across this paper:

Consciousness and the double-slit interference pattern: Six experiments

Link
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121. PensacolaDoug 8:08 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting FunnelVortex:


Speaking of that. Are idiots still complaining about winter storms being named?


I think there were some smart ones too.
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122. trHUrrIXC5MMX 8:11 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting FunnelVortex:


Speaking of that. Are idiots still complaining about winter storms being named?


??? who?
Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 33 Comments: 7942
123. MontanaZephyr 8:17 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting FunnelVortex:


Speaking of that. Are idiots still complaining about winter storms being named?


Name-calling?
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124. DocNDswamp 8:19 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
2012 Geminid Meteor Shower

For any who might be interested, reposting here some of my comments posted earlier on LowerCal's Astronomy blog -

Wanted to check in with first hand report on those Geminids.. In fact I posted quick comment on Dr Jeff's blog last night, in between watching the Sandy Relief concert which was awesome in it's on right... although I doubt many readers there paid attention to the heads-up I tried to offer.

But WOW, was I surprised, went out for a casual look-see at 10:50 PM local CST and in 10 minutes I quickly saw 5 meteors, plus another 4 of those peripherals... Back / forth while concert was on, but later spent night out till near 3:30 AM. Had a gorgeous clear view with cold temps, lol, which turned out my coldest night yet here with 31F low, my 1st light freeze and frost covering everything... But man, was it worth it!

Altogether, clearly saw and counted 58 Geminids! Plus, another 40-50 of the peripheral faint short burst "maybes", lol, given how fleeting they are... Most were short duration, but saw one near 11:45 PM that was an incredible beauty, lasted over 2-3 seconds moving due E-W... My best viewing was looking up, facing west (or WNW).. as time went on early morn hrs, seemed most were roughly ranging between Pleiades and Orion... all traveling generally east to west (SE-NW to ENE-WSW)... Saw as many as 3 within one minute period, to stretches of 3-4 to as long as 7-10 minutes seeing none... LOL, but that's when those "maybes" also occurred, so... As for best viewing time, who knows, there was excellent activity as soon as went out to look!

IMHO, sure appears the 2012 Geminids will rank the best meteor shower of the year, at least in numbers / activity! And last night's view was definitely the most I've seen, highest count since the 2001 Leonids, which I now measure all others up against...

Hey, and all this occurring on the night BEFORE the predicted peak! If tonight's activity matches or exceeds what I saw last night it'll be a spectacle worth losing sleep over, again, lol!

Best wishes for clear skies,
Great viewing all!


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125. trHUrrIXC5MMX 8:19 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
EVAN A CAT 3.....
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126. hydrus 8:21 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Blob south of Panama.
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127. FunnelVortex 8:23 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
There is a low east of Evan with a well-defined circulation and thunderstorm activity.
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128. VR46L 8:26 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting hydrus:
Shows well here.


Umm thats put a dampener on my evening was getting used to 4 whole days of nice but frosty weather...Oh Well
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129. FunnelVortex 8:41 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Member Since: October 20, 2012 Posts: 3 Comments: 791
130. aspectre 8:44 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
119 FunnelVortex: Are idiots still complaining about winter storms being named?

Nope, why would I care about that?
I'm complaining cuz they won't do tricks like "Shake hands, Brutus" or "Roll over, Caesar".
Member Since: August 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 4846
131. barbamz 8:51 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Good evening. Here are some links to really not so good news from Samoa pounded by Evan.

Samoa reels as tropical cyclone strikes
Updated 7:53 AM Friday Dec 14, 2012

Cyclone Evan, which has already reportedly claimed the lives of three people, continues to batter Samoa today and is expected to intensify with winds up to 145km/h.

At least three people, two of them children, were reported to have been killed in the cyclone overnight.

Samoa's Meteorology Division this morning issued a special weather bulletin, predicting winds will pick up to between 120km/h and 145km/h within the next 6-12 hours.

More on New Zealand Herald


Telefone interview with bad news and video footage:
Samoa braces for second lashing from Cyclone Evan


Three reported dead as cyclone pounds Samoa
updated 08:57

Published: 5:48AM Friday December 14, 2012 Source: ONE News

Three people are feared to have been killed in Samoa as Cyclone Evan makes a u-turn over the country and heads back southwest after already causing massive damage.

The cyclone slammed into the west coast of Samoa yesterday before stalling over the islands, bringing torrential rains and intense winds that brought down trees and buildings, and causing widespread flooding.

The capital Apia has been largely evacuated, phones and electricity are out across much of the country, and tourists in many areas have fled inland from the coast.

It is believed two of the reported fatalities could have been children.

The storm is now a Category 3 tropical cyclone and is gathering force as it roars back to the southwest, where it is expected to pass over vulnerable parts of Tonga before arriving in Fiji on Sunday.

More with photos

Member Since: October 25, 2008 Posts: 24 Comments: 1614
132. FunnelVortex 8:51 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting aspectre:
119 FunnelVortex: Are idiots still complaining about winter storms being named?

Nope, why would I care about that?
I'm complaining cuz they won't do tricks like "Shake hands, Brutus" or "Roll over, Caesar".


What exactly do winter storms have to do with dogs?
Member Since: October 20, 2012 Posts: 3 Comments: 791
133. FunnelVortex 8:53 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting barbamz:
Good evening. Here are some links to really not so good news from Samoa pounded by Evan.

Samoa reels as tropical cyclone strikes
Updated 7:53 AM Friday Dec 14, 2012

Cyclone Evan, which has already reportedly claimed the lives of three people, continues to batter Samoa today and is expected to intensify with winds up to 145km/h.

At least three people, two of them children, were reported to have been killed in the cyclone overnight.

Samoa's Meteorology Division this morning issued a special weather bulletin, predicting winds will pick up to between 120km/h and 145km/h within the next 6-12 hours.

More on New Zealand Herald


Telefone interview with bad news and video footage:
Samoa braces for second lashing from Cyclone Evan


Three reported dead as cyclone pounds Samoa
updated 08:57

Published: 5:48AM Friday December 14, 2012 Source: ONE News

Three people are feared to have been killed in Samoa as Cyclone Evan makes a u-turn over the country and heads back southwest after already causing massive damage.

The cyclone slammed into the west coast of Samoa yesterday before stalling over the islands, bringing torrential rains and intense winds that brought down trees and buildings, and causing widespread flooding.

The capital Apia has been largely evacuated, phones and electricity are out across much of the country, and tourists in many areas have fled inland from the coast.

It is believed two of the reported fatalities could have been children.

The storm is now a Category 3 tropical cyclone and is gathering force as it roars back to the southwest, where it is expected to pass over vulnerable parts of Tonga before arriving in Fiji on Sunday.

More with photos



Considering two are children, they were most likely carried away by surge or floods and diddnt know how to swim.
Member Since: October 20, 2012 Posts: 3 Comments: 791
134. nymore 8:56 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:
Very bad there in Samoa...

Meanwhile look at that huge 948 mb south of Greenland



Here is a poes (NOAA19) view of your Greenland storm

Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
135. FunnelVortex 8:57 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting nymore:
Here is a poes (NOAA19) view of your Greenland storm



I <3 Mid-latitude cyclones...
Member Since: October 20, 2012 Posts: 3 Comments: 791
136. wxchaser97 8:59 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting WxGeekVA:
Ladies and gentlemen, it's good to be back. How's everybody doing? I for one am looking forward for maybe some snow soon in my area!

It..can't..be..possible..
I'm doing good.

Good afternoon everyone, wonderful weather today, barely a cloud in the sky.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 87 Comments: 6816
137. barbamz 8:59 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting FunnelVortex:


Considering two are children, they were most likely carried away by surge or floods and diddnt know how to swim.


From the New Zealand Herald report

Last night there were reports of widespread flash floods, blocked roads, damaged buildings and evacuations.

Radio Samoa reported that one of the victims, a man, drowned in the Vaisigano, a river that runs alongside the famous Aggie Grey's hotel in Apia.

The river burst its banks, and local media said Aggie Grey's had been badly damaged.
It is the same river where a New Zealand teenager perished in March.

Taiana Pilitati, 18, from Wellington, drowned while desperately trying to save her 8-year-old sister Vaiola after they were hit by a large wave while swimming. Taiana was a cousin for former All Blacks Tana Umaga and Ne'emia Tialata.

It was not known last night how the other two storm victims died.

Samoa newspaper editor Terry Tavita told Radio New Zealand people were still missing.

"In fact there are a couple missing from my village which is about five minutes from downtown (Apia)."

The amount of warning locals got before the cyclone pounded the region would need to be reviewed, he said.

"Some people were taken by surprise by this cyclone. Yesterday we drove around the villages, the cyclone was picking up and some of the people said they didn't get enough warning."



Remember, Samoa just recovered from the devastating tsunami in 2009. Unfortunately Evan will cause a lot of widespread destruction again.
Member Since: October 25, 2008 Posts: 24 Comments: 1614
138. barbamz 9:04 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Typhoon Evan






Source
Member Since: October 25, 2008 Posts: 24 Comments: 1614
139. aspectre 9:10 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
132 FunnelVortex: What exactly do winter storms have to do with dogs?

Ask TheWeatherChannel, they're the ones givin' 'em doggy names.
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140. PalmBeachWeather 9:11 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting kwgirl:
The air temp may be 90 but I bet your car is hotter in the direct sun than 90.
Or: Beer tastes better at 30+ degrees but I have been known to drink it at room temperature when the wind is blowing.
Member Since: October 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 3084
141. WxGeekVA 9:13 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting wxchaser97:

It..can't..be..possible..
I'm doing good.

Good afternoon everyone, wonderful weather today, barely a cloud in the sky.


Oh it is my friend :) And yes, today is a beautiful yet chilly day here in NOVA, about 42° and sunny.
Member Since: September 3, 2011 Posts: 13 Comments: 3323
142. wxchaser97 9:16 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting WxGeekVA:


Oh it is my friend :) And yes, today is a beautiful yet chilly day here in NOVA, about 42° and sunny.

I am surprised though that it was removed.

We have basically the same weather in SE MI.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 87 Comments: 6816
143. trHUrrIXC5MMX 9:20 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
any new model runs for the potential nor'easter ??
Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 33 Comments: 7942
144. Jedkins01 9:21 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting kwgirl:
Well this goes to show you that you can still learn something new. So windchill is basically for living things and not inanimate objects. The temp records for Key West have been at the airport which is on the south side of the Island near the water. It must be warmer on that side of the island to account for the lack of 32 degrees and my sister telling she had to scrape ice. I guess you can't argue with "official" records. However, in my mind they are suspect. My sister would never lie to me!LOL


Learning is always a good thing :)
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5336
145. SherwoodSpirit 9:22 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting aspectre:
132 FunnelVortex: What exactly do winter storms have to do with dogs?

Ask TheWeatherChannel, they're the ones givin' 'em doggy names.


haha
You made me laugh out loud in my quiet office. Now everyone knows I wasn't working for a minute. :)
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146. washingtonian115 9:23 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
The local mets keep getting excited about next week with each passing day.They keep saying "stay tuned".They're getting people's hops up for something a week+ out.
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 5 Comments: 10675
147. wxchaser97 9:26 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting washingtonian115:
The local mets keep getting excited about next week with each passing day.They keep saying "stay tuned".They're getting people's hops up for something a week+ out.

This is the last paragraph from the area discussion from the NWS in Detroit. There could be a storm for the east coast.

The upper low stalls briefly over Ontario as the trough becomes negatively tilted sending another
weak vort max and a cool air mass through northern lower Tuesday leading to a low chance of light
snow showers. Then as the model solutions become more divergent next week there, a strong +160 knot
jet max will enter the nw Contiguous U.S. which looks to dig a west coast trough and could lead to
another large system over the eastern Contiguous U.S. later in the week, but that is about all there
is to say currently on that system this far out.

Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 87 Comments: 6816
148. WxGeekVA 9:27 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting washingtonian115:
The local mets keep getting excited about next week with each passing day.They keep saying "stay tuned".They're getting people's hops up for something a week+ out.



I'm watching, and I'm really excited... for a chilly, windy rain!

~No One Ever
Member Since: September 3, 2011 Posts: 13 Comments: 3323
149. SherwoodSpirit 9:28 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
Or: Beer tastes better at 30+ degrees but I have been known to drink it at room temperature when the wind is blowing.


Ditto my comment in #145. You guys are blowing my covert browsing! :)
Member Since: July 18, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 382
150. barbamz 9:29 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Samoa told to brace for more
Last updated 09:59 14/12/2012

LATEST: Cyclone Evan is set to hit Apia again this morning with greater force, after reportedly killing three people - including two children - yesterday.

The cyclone has already inflicted massive damage on the Samoan capital while details around the fatalities are not yet available.

Winds close to the cyclone's centre are predicted to increase to 120 kmh to 145 kmh within the next 6-12 hours.

A special weather bulletin said Upolu could expect to see high gusts of wind up to 160 kmh and damaging storm surges of 3.6 metres to 4.3m.

Phone lines are still down in Samoa and the country's High Commissioner in New Zealand has been struggling to get updated information.

"We don't have any update (on whether the next phase of the cyclone has hit). We've been trying to call the Disaster Management Office but have had no luck," a spokesman said.

He could confirm that at least three people were dead - two children and one adult. But did not have detail on ages or nationalities.

Samoan newspaper editor Tevita Terrance said wind gusts of up to 112 kph were being experienced.

"There are several missing people at the moment. The damage is pretty extensive," he told RNZ.

More with raw video from Reuters
Member Since: October 25, 2008 Posts: 24 Comments: 1614
151. nymore 9:30 PM GMT on December 13, 2012    
Quoting washingtonian115:
The local mets keep getting excited about next week with each passing day.They keep saying "stay tuned".They're getting people's hops up for something a week out.


That is why I call them weather terrorists because the next storm is the worst one ever, even if they have to manufacture it.

Here is nice example

">

just for fun here is one more

">

What a couple of dolts
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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