Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

At least 370 dead from Typhoon Bopha in the Philippines
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 5:21 PM GMT on December 05, 2012 +40
The death toll in the Philippines from Typhoon Bopha has risen to at 370, with hundreds more missing. Bopha (called "Pablo" in the Philippines), slammed ashore on the Philippine island of Mindanao at 4:45 am local time on Tuesday morning as a Category 5 storm with 160 mph winds. Bopha is only Category 5 typhoon on record to make landfall on Mindanao, which rarely sees strong typhoons due to its position close to the Equator. Most of the deaths occurred in the gold-rush mountain towns of New Bataan and Monkayo due to typhoon-spawned landslides and flash floods. According to an op-ed published at sunstar.com, much of the death toll can be blamed on the fact that deforestation has reduced forest cover on Mindanao to just 10%, which allows more dangerous flash floods to occur. Passage over land has weakened Bopha to a Category 1 storm today, and the typhoon is now far enough from the Philippines that it no long poses a heavy rain threat. The island of Mindanao is highly vulnerable to flood disasters from tropical cyclones; last year's Tropical Storm Washi, which hit Mindanao on December 16, 2011 with 60 mph winds and torrential rains, killed over 1200 people. Before hitting the Philippines, Typhoon Bopha brought a storm surge estimated at ten feet to the island nation of Palau, where near-total destruction is being reported in some coastal areas.


Figure 1. Super Typhoon Bopha as seen from the International Space Station on December 2, 2012. At the time, Bopha had top sustained winds of 150 - 155 mph. Image credit: NASA.


Figure 2. The devastation brought about by powerful Typhoon Bopha is seen at Montevista township, Compostela Valley in southern Philippines Wednesday Dec. 5, 2012. (AP Photo/Bullit Marquez)

Extreme damage on Mindanao
Category 5 storms make landfall only once every few years somewhere in the world, and the damage they cause is invariably extreme and dramatic. According to a story at inquirer.net, a 10-hectare plantation of coconut trees in the town of Baganga, Davao Oriental, were all felled. It's takes some pretty extreme winds to bring down coconut trees, which commonly are the only things still standing after passage of a major hurricane or typhoon. Damage surveys from Tropical Cyclone Larry, which made landfall in 2006 in Australia as a Category 4 storm, indicated that coconut trees were able to withstand wind gusts of 135 mph, but toppled when the gusts reached 145 mph (thanks go to Dr. Bruce Buckley of the Reinsurance Group Australia for this info.) Aerial damage surveys from Mindanao (Video 1) show very heavy damage near where the eye came ashore, due to extreme winds and high storm surge.


Video 1. An aerial survey of damage near where the eye of Typhoon Bopha made landfall in Davao Oriental province on Mindanao Island in the Philippines shows widespread severe damage, bordering on catastrophic.

The International Red Cross is accepting donations for typhoon relief in the Philippines.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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751. indianrivguy 4:13 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting AussieStorm:
US$10,000 is only AU$9532.25. Yes, My money is worth more than yours. Our economy is one of the best in the world.

Who am I sending it to. A charity?


hmm, cut out the middleman Aussie, need my address?? :)
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752. JNCali 4:14 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:
Something they forget to mention is the increase erosion and wave action as the seas rise.

The real results a a bit worse than just adding 2 meters of water to the existing oceanic and coastal topography, because you have to take the sum of all the extra erosion caused by the sea level rise between now and then.
...and add the atmospheric effects of all those additional thousands of square miles of warm surface water..
Member Since: September 9, 2010 Posts: 5 Comments: 1032
753. pottery 4:14 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:
Something they forget to mention is the increase erosion and wave action as the seas rise.

The real results a a bit worse than just adding 2 meters of water to the existing oceanic and coastal topography, because you have to take the sum of all the extra erosion caused by the sea level rise between now and then.

You have to add the effects of all the poisonous soils in densly farmed coastal areas too.
Pesticides, weedicides, fungicides, and so on.

Should be fun.
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754. hydrus 4:15 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting pottery:

LOL, I'm 64.....

They say that Age brings Wisdom.
I'm still waiting.........
Well, if everything is still here on 12/21/12, I will probably make that number..:)
Member Since: September 27, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 14303
755. calkevin77 4:15 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting hydrus:
50+ years...I may have to lump you in with the Grothar Entity..:)


Speaking of Grothar, I haven't seen much of him around lately. Praying to the weather Gods to make more blobs to talk about :)
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756. pcola57 4:15 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:


At 2 meters...

In the case of the Mediterranean and the Gulf of Mexico, it will likely be worse than that because the weight of the extra water will push down on the continental plates on which those bodies rest, causing even more water to spill into the basins.

Although the inland seas in North Africa and Israel are unlikely to be re-filled like they are portrayed on that map, unless the climate changes incredibly drastically to cause large rains in those locations.


As for Asia, they may be in a much worse case than anywhere else.

A chunk of Iraq is destroyed at 2 meters, and an entire region is submerged at 7 meters.

In the far east, Vietnam and China lose entire metropolis and megalopolis scale cities at just 2 meters. I'd expect that initially they may try NOLA style levees, but by then the rate of sea level rise will be so high those levees won't be useful for more than a few generations before it becomes impossible to save the land at all.

Shanghai, Hong Kong, Hanoi, Basrah.

Top four most screwed cities come 2100.


Agreed..
Those levee's are a gonner..
By the way that's the most current and really the only link I have to share on the sea level topic..
One would think there would be more..but sadly no..
At least I couldn't find any in that understandable format..
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757. yoboi 4:15 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting pottery:

He wont read it.
And if he does, he wont believe it.


when did you become a mind reader???
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758. ARiot 4:16 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function."
Albert A. Bartlett, physicist


The quote above is very significant when discussing AGW in the context of temperature and sea level and the potential outcome for humans.

Once the exponential function is understood, people can realize that 4C or 8" average sea level rise has exceptionally far-reaching implications for everyone on earth.

As Bartlett often used this funtion in the context of population growth, fueled almost entirely by progress in basic sanitation, basic medical science and growth of "easy" energy, it should be part of every discussion on rapid (on a geologic scale) AGW.
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759. indianrivguy 4:18 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting pottery:

LOL, I'm 64.....

They say that Age brings Wisdom.
I'm still waiting.........


sounds like a song title...

Member Since: September 23, 2006 Posts: 1 Comments: 1786
760. evilpenguinshan 4:18 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
probably because you've shown an incredible ability to ignore/misrepresent the science of AGW. it's not mind reading, it's pattern recognition.

Quoting yoboi:


when did you become a mind reader???
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761. pottery 4:19 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:


when did you become a mind reader???

I was not reading your mind, you know.
I was reading your comments.
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762. Skyepony (Mod) 4:19 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Tsunami warning lifted after strong quake strikes Japan. Video & such at that link.
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763. pottery 4:20 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting indianrivguy:


sounds like a song title...


Yep.
And people still need me, people still feed me.....

:):))
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764. yoboi 4:21 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting goosegirl1:


Here, read this... Link



they sent a letter to the president, let's see what he will do about it...thanks for sharing the link...
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765. LargoFl 4:22 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting Bluestorm5:
You're not reading my posts. Even 8 inches of rise will cause some problems. Starting at 12 to 24 inches, that's enough to flood many beach towns in Florida. At around 24 to 48 inches, that's enough to flood Miami or Tampa. At 72 inches, that's enough to flood 1/4 of state. All of this is by 2100. Even though the range is rather large, it's not very promising...
yes im afraid your right, just look at miami beach, built right up to the waters edge and that could probably go for most of florida's beach communities..and no where do i see any change coming anytime soon..add to the sea rise..high tide and a sea breeze and that water height goes up..gee,not good at all
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766. pottery 4:23 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



they sent a letter to the president, let's see what he will do about it...thanks for sharing the link...

But, what do you think about it?
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767. indianrivguy 4:23 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting pottery:

You have to add the effects of all the poisonous soils in densly farmed coastal areas too.
Pesticides, weedicides, fungicides, and so on.

Should be fun.


I deal with that every day.. friggen "legend" pollution.. The most diverse estuary in all of North America is collapsing because of nutrient laden storm water. We can't send Okeechobee Lake water south into the Florida Everglades because it is too polluted.. from legend nutrients in the sediments.. All of Florida has been impacted by nutrient and pesticide overload.
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768. JNCali 4:23 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting LargoFl:
yes im afraid your right, just look at miami beach, built right up to the waters edge and that could probably go for most of florida's beach communities..and no where do i see any change coming anytime soon..add to the sea rise..high tide and a sea breeze and that water height goes up..gee,not good at all
I hear houses are cheap in New Orleans.. oh wait..
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769. yoboi 4:23 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting evilpenguinshan:
probably because you've shown an incredible ability to ignore/misrepresent the science of AGW. it's not mind reading, it's pattern recognition.




depends who funds the studies....
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770. pottery 4:25 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting indianrivguy:


I deal with that every day.. friggen "legend" pollution.. The most diverse estuary in all of North America is collapsing because of nutrient laden storm water. We can't send Okeechobee Lake water south into the Florida Everglades because it is too polluted.. from legend nutrients in the sediments.. All of Florida has been impacted by nutrient and pesticide overload.

It must be driving you (and others who understand) crazy !

We reap what we sow, and it's a Bitter Harvest.
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771. yoboi 4:25 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting pottery:

But, what do you think about it?



i think it's in his hands now, let's see what he will do about it...
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772. pottery 4:28 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



depends who funds the studies....

Absolutely True.
But at the end of the day, some people can see through the haze and muck, and recognise the Physical Evidence for what it is.

Some people can't, of course.
Or won't.
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773. hydrus 4:30 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting indianrivguy:


I deal with that every day.. friggen "legend" pollution.. The most diverse estuary in all of North America is collapsing because of nutrient laden storm water. We can't send Okeechobee Lake water south into the Florida Everglades because it is too polluted.. from legend nutrients in the sediments.. All of Florida has been impacted by nutrient and pesticide overload.
It has been like that for a long time...Here is an excerpt from the New York Times back in 1989..I must mention that the Everglades has had pollution issues since the 1920,s..Pollution Poses Growing Threat To Everglades
By JEFFREY SCHMALZ, Special to The New York Times
Published: September 17, 1989

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The National Audubon Society estimates that the number of long-legged wading birds, like wood storks and egrets, that nest in the waters of the Everglades has declined 90 percent since the 1920's.

This summer, for the first time, fish in most parts of the Everglades have been declared unsafe for eating, because of mercury contamination. Alligator hunting, in season this month in Florida, has been banned in the Everglades because of high mercury levels in gator meat as well. Unwanted Plant Life

But of even more concern to officials is the runoff from dairy, sugar-cane and other farms. Environmentalists say the runoff, rich in nutrients, has fed an explosion in the growth of plant varieties that clog open waterways, robbing them of oxygen and crowding out animal life. The plants, especially cattails, are spreading at the rate of four acres a day.Pollution Poses Growing Threat To Everglades
By JEFFREY SCHMALZ, Special to The New York Times
Published: September 17, 1989

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The Everglades, 10,000 square miles of delicate marshland that is home to some of the country's rarest birds and other animals, are caught in a worsening environmental crisis, with thousands of acres already unable to sustain wildlife.

The National Audubon Society estimates that the number of long-legged wading birds, like wood storks and egrets, that nest in the waters of the Everglades has declined 90 percent since the 1920's.

This summer, for the first time, fish in most parts of the Everglades have been declared unsafe for eating, because of mercury contamination. Alligator hunting, in season this month in Florida, has been banned in the Everglades because of high mercury levels in gator meat as well. Unwanted Plant Life

But of even more concern to officials is the runoff from dairy, sugar-cane and other farms. Environmentalists say the runoff, rich in nutrients, has fed an explosion in the growth of plant varieties that clog open waterways, robbing them of oxygen and crowding out animal life. The plants, especially cattails, are spreading at the rate of four acres a day.
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Meanwhile, 110,000 acres of the Everglades was swept this summer by fires that went unchecked because of drought.

''Of all the national parks, it is the one closest to extinction,'' said George T. Frampton, the president of the Wilderness Society. ''We ditched, diked and drained Florida thinking that was progress before we realized we totally changed the whole balance.'' What Should Be Done? Officials have responded with a flurry of proposals. The United States Attorney in Miami, Dexter Lehtinen, has sued the state to compel it to enforce its own water-discharge standards. The Army Corps of Engineers has begun studies on how to control the flow of water so that the dry season stays dry and the wet season wet - an important cycle affecting birds' nesting habits that was disrupted by man-made levees.

Congress is considering a bill that would bring 100,000 more acres under the protection of the Everglades National Park, which encompasses about a fifth of all the Everglades. State water managers have proposed seizing 40,000 acres of private- and state-owned wetlands that would be used as a natural purification system to filter out nutrients before they reach sensitive areas.

But the proposals are bogged down in bitter fighting between environmentalists, who charge that state water managers favor the agriculture industry, and the industry itself, which argues that it is being made a scapegoat for the state's failure to manage growth and that, in any case, the pollution is not so bad as everyone says it is.

State water managers say that the Everglades system may simply not have enough water to meet the demands placed on it and that South Florida is going to have to face up to painful choices: supplying water to the 4.5 million residents of the area, meeting the needs of agriculture or supporting the environment.

This week, for the first time in a decade, the state began pumping water that it knows is laden with nutrients into Lake Okeechobee, the main source of the Everglades' water. Officials said they had to do this so they could draw on the lake, which has been running low, to supply the drought-stricken Miami area, 50 miles to the south.

''We're living on the edge with this system in terms of meeting the water needs for 4.5 million people,'' said John R. Wodraska, executive director of the South Florida Water Management District. ''If man is going to live in South Florida and have enough water to drink, we're going to have to do some things to compromise the environment.
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774. evilpenguinshan 4:30 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
well naturally you shouldn't believe oil industry funded studies showing that AGW is non-existent...it's called a profit motive. and don't even give me that 'scientists just want research grants' garbage, that money is chump change compared to oil industry profits.

Quoting yoboi:



depends who funds the studies....


plus, your question was answered, but somehow I don't think it's going to make a difference...

"Sea level has already risen about 8 inches along Florida’s coast and is having profound effects...
“We just spent $10 million on new wells because salt water seeped into six of our wells that were close to the coast,” said Hallandale Beach City Commissioner Keith London, who also signed the letter. “We’re skimming water off of the top of another two wells because salt water is at the bottom.”
“The canal system was built on a decline, using about a foot of gravity,” said Berry. “As sea level has risen, more than half of that foot gradient is now gone. During some high tides the canal gates have to be closed to prevent sea water from flowing into the canals.”


so wait, are you agreeing that 8" is bad, or that 8 more inches may actually be catastrophic for many areas of FL? or did you just post that 'thanks' to make it sound like you're open to the information? or are you going to take issue with whoever funded that particular piece of information?

Quoting yoboi:



they sent a letter to the president, let's see what he will do about it...thanks for sharing the link...
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775. yoboi 4:31 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting pottery:

Absolutely True.
But at the end of the day, some people can see through the haze and muck, and recognise the Physical Evidence for what it is.

Some people can't, of course.
Or won't.



you don't think there are hidden agenda on both sides of the debate???
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776. RTSplayer 4:31 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:


how is 8 inches going to be a doomsday flood event?



By adding to the water height you add to the location where waves crash, in some cases you may actually increase the maximum size of the waves in the first place, allowing them to crash even farther inland.

the wave action, first a few millimeters, then a centimeter, then 20cm/8 inches (whatever), adds up to erosion and salt water intrusion in rivers and marshes, which means barrier islands will get wiped out faster and faster, and our coastal marshes will be inundated and poisoned more and more.

So, 8 inches, what does it matter?

In Louisiana, 12 inches of water would increase the penetration of storm surges by an average of about 1 mile, which is about 0.4% of the width and height of the state.


So it's not just the average added to topography.

It's what the average does to erosion and salt water intrustion.

It's also what the average does to the dynamics o storm surges.

It's also what the average does to isostatic forces causing continents and ocean plates to sink or rise on the Mantle. Which this doesn't happen quickly, but it does happen fast enough that NASA and USGS can track it already in Greenland...

Greenland and Antarctica will rise by hundreds of feet eventually, by the time complete or near-complete melt-downs happen. Everything else will sink by several dozen feet eventually, because they will have more water on them, but the water will be spread out far more thinly than the ice was on the ice caps so the effect won't be as much as the reverse effect in Greenland or Antarctica.

In general, based on the density of rock vs water, if the Gulf of Mexico saw a 12 inch initial water rise, it and the coastlines around it would then sink by a further 3 inches, causing the net coastal water rise to be around 15 inches. Or if it saw an 8 inch initial water rise, it would then sink by about 2 inches, giving a net increase of 10 inches.


Scientists and recreational scuba divers a few hundred years from now will be studying the coral reefs and other aquatic live growing on the sunken man-made structures in NOLA, Tampa Bay, Miami, the keys, and Galveston.
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777. LargoFl 4:32 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
..new orleans with a 4 foot sea rise....gone
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778. pottery 4:33 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



i think it's in his hands now, let's see what he will do about it...

Unfortunately, it is NOT in his hands alone.
Your President is restrained by many things, and among the most important are Political Opposition and Popular Opinion. (You may read Votes, here).

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779. weatherbro 4:33 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting washingtonian115:
Looks like another person will have read the post and fell on blind eyes...The longer range for the next 10 days(which will be the first half of December) will be mild for my area with some shots of cold air but for the most part the highs will be in the 50's and 60's.


Opps...I meant the 2ed half of the month(especially toward the Winter Solstice) Link.:)
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780. LargoFl 4:35 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
...................Houston with a 4 foot sea rise
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781. yoboi 4:35 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting evilpenguinshan:
well naturally you shouldn't believe oil industry funded studies showing that AGW is non-existent...it's called a profit motive. and don't even give me that 'scientists just want research grants' garbage, that money is chump change compared to oil industry profits.



plus, your question was answered, but somehow I don't think it's going to make a difference...

"Sea level has already risen about 8 inches along Florida’s coast and is having profound effects...
“We just spent $10 million on new wells because salt water seeped into six of our wells that were close to the coast,” said Hallandale Beach City Commissioner Keith London, who also signed the letter. “We’re skimming water off of the top of another two wells because salt water is at the bottom.”
“The canal system was built on a decline, using about a foot of gravity,” said Berry. “As sea level has risen, more than half of that foot gradient is now gone. During some high tides the canal gates have to be closed to prevent sea water from flowing into the canals.”


so wait, are you agreeing that 8" is bad, or that 8 more inches may actually be catastrophic for many areas of FL? or did you just post that 'thanks' to make it sound like you're open to the information? or are you going to take issue with whoever funded that particular piece of information?




they provided a link showing that it has already risen i belive the data....and if we are in such a dire situation the president can write an executive order....let's see what he will do...
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782. pottery 4:37 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



you don't think there are hidden agenda on both sides of the debate???

Ther're not very well hidden, actually.
But some folks still get confused.......
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783. yoboi 4:38 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting pottery:

Unfortunately, it is NOT in his hands alone.
Your President is restrained by many things, and among the most important are Political Opposition and Popular Opinion. (You may read Votes, here).




he has the authority to write an executive order to protect the american citizens....let's see how dire he thinks this is....they sent him the letter so it'ss on him...
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784. fireflymom 4:38 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
With eyes wide open some folks are still not observant.

Quoting pottery:

Ther're not very well hidden, actually.
But some folks still get confused.......

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785. pottery 4:39 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



they provided a link showing that it has already risen i belive the data....and if we are in such a dire situation the president can write an executive order....let's see what he will do...

Or he can wave a magic wand.
Probably be just as effective, you know.
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786. WunderAlertBot (Admin) 4:39 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
JeffMasters has created a new entry.
787. evilpenguinshan 4:39 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
no. there is a hidden agenda on ONE side, and it's not hidden - it's profit. oil companies stock is valued by the amount of reserves they have, thus is they cant burn it all, they 'lose' TONS of money. that's the agenda.
if you think climatology is some giant conspiracy, go back to the fever swamps...read some 9/11 truthers or moon-landing deniers, but stay off the science and weather boards.

Quoting yoboi:



you don't think there are hidden agenda on both sides of the debate???
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788. yoboi 4:40 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting pottery:

Ther're not very well hidden, actually.
But some folks still get confused.......



your right...one side wants to continue to use fossil fuels the other side wants to tax the poor and middle class with a carbon tax.....
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789. evilpenguinshan 4:41 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
you should link to that interactive new york times page where those images came from - it's quite good.

Quoting LargoFl:
...................Houston with a 4 foot sea rise
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790. pottery 4:41 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting WunderAlertBot:
JeffMasters has created a new entry.


OH NO!!!!

this one was so much fun, man !
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791. LargoFl 4:41 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
I guess just pick your coastal city and we can guess what a 4 foot rise in sea levels will do..miami,new orleans,Tampa,etc all gone or shrunken in size and accessablity...I know MY county would be unable to get to Tampa..the causeways would be under water etc...well those alive in the future will have to deal with it..huge taxes to pay for higher sea walls and bridges etc..not a pretty outlook for sure
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792. Some1Has2BtheRookie 5:15 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting LargoFl:
...................Houston with a 4 foot sea rise


I would have beach front property then. I-10 would be my boat launch. ... I was wanting to get another boat. .... Hey, Pottery! How are you coming along on that ark?
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793. Some1Has2BtheRookie 5:17 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



they provided a link showing that it has already risen i belive the data....and if we are in such a dire situation the president can write an executive order....let's see what he will do...


The president can write an Executive Order, as long as it does not involve any new spending. Congress has sole possession of the purse.
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794. RTSplayer 5:40 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Bopha is probably in an eye-wall replacement cycle again.

It had a mini-peak about 6 hours ago with very warm core temperatures and a small eye again, but now its getting some cover over the eye again.

2012DEC07 113000 6.0 929.7/ +2.7 /115.0 6.0 6.4 6.8 2.2T/6hr OFF OFF 11.40 -73.78 EYE 16 IR 15.42 -116.05 COMBO
2012DEC07 123000 6.0 929.6/ +2.6 /115.0 6.0 6.4 6.6 2.7T/12hr OFF OFF 4.49 -72.86 EYE 16 IR 15.50 -116.16 COMBO
2012DEC07 125700 6.1 927.0/ +2.6 /117.4 6.1 6.4 6.6 2.7T/12hr OFF OFF 5.59 -73.47 EYE 16 IR 15.64 -116.17 COMBO
2012DEC07 133000 6.2 924.4/ +2.6 /119.8 6.2 6.4 6.5 2.7T/12hr OFF OFF -12.05 -74.96 EYE -99 IR 15.71 -116.19 COMBO
2012DEC07 135700 6.3 921.8/ +2.6 /122.2 6.3 6.2 6.2 NO LIMIT OFF OFF -33.63 -75.54 EYE -99 IR 15.66 -116.20 SPRL
2012DEC07 143000 6.3 921.8/ +2.5 /122.2 6.3 6.3 6.3 NO LIMIT OFF OFF -30.16 -75.54 EYE/P -99 IR 15.81 -116.32 SPRL
2012DEC07 145700 6.3 921.7/ +2.5 /122.2 6.3 6.2 6.2 NO LIMIT OFF OFF -33.65 -75.35 EYE/P -99 IR 15.86 -116.34 SPRL
2012DEC07 153000 6.3 921.7/ +2.5 /122.2 6.1 5.2 5.2 0.7T/6hr ON OFF -60.44 -74.91 EMBC N/A 15.91 -116.36 SPRL
2012DEC07 155700 6.3 921.7/ +2.5 /122.2 5.9 5.2 5.2 0.7T/6hr ON OFF -63.66 -75.63 EMBC N/A 15.96 -116.37 SPRL
2012DEC07 163000 6.3 921.7/ +2.5 /122.2 5.8 5.2 4.7 0.7T/6hr ON FLG -74.91 -74.47 UNIFRM N/A 16.01 -116.81 SPRL
2012DEC07 165700 6.3 921.6/ +2.4 /122.2 5.6 5.0 4.6 1.2T/12hr ON FLG -72.83 -72.85 UNIFRM N/A 16.35 -116.72 SPRL


Last time it was calculated, the radius of maximum winds was still 16NM.
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 27 Comments: 875
795. StormPro 5:49 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting Chucktown:


Why should I give away the money I worked hard for and give it to someone else. Yea, I give to charities and those less fortunate, but don't ask me to divide my salary just so a few others can live more comfortably. We aren't a communist country yet. Ya know what, I haven't been without a job since I was 14 years old and now I'm closing in on 40. The problem with this country is that the work ethic sucks. You don't have enough money, get a job. I'm tired of hearing there are no jobs out there. The problem is people don't want to do what is available. Thats why its called "work". I "worked" my way to get to where I'm at now. All people want now are handouts.


QUOTE OF THE YEAR! BTW, 74 and mostly cloudy here in NOLA...no waves washing over our walls yet.
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 335
796. MontanaZephyr 6:55 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
He lives in DC and he doesn't like to talk about politics...?

That's sort of like being a butterfly and having a fear of flying!

Poor thing!
Member Since: May 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 427
797. plutorising 7:48 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting MontanaZephyr:


Actually, one of the main reasons that the world is so screwed up in so many ways these days is precisely because of the fact that the 1%ers have been mulcting so much from the other classes .... it results in, for instance, less safety, so you have the Horizon oil disaster in the gulf. It results in wives working, so you have all the social problems related to insufficient parenting. It results in people working three jobs and still no health care. It results in people being too busy to have any life BUT work ... so you have diminished participation in social groups and no time to keep up on events, and that results in just enough time to pick up the most solemnly ignorant of engineered opinions, making it possible to vote for enough stupid people such that, say the NC senate votes to officially disbeleive in global warming and rising seas. Civilization becomes increasingly stupid, ignorant, crass, vulgar and predatory.

Compare it all to the Leave-It-To-Beaver days of the fifties ... that relatively idyllic period, in which such a show was even possible, now seems more like science fiction ... One person made enough on a working class income to support a wife and kids, buy a nice solid house made with decent materials, and even some toys, and vacations, with trips to watch a ML baseball game regularly, in a regularly non-sleep-deprived state of mind.

omg this is perfect. do you mind if i steal this for my current novel?
Member Since: August 30, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 73
798. plutorising 7:51 PM GMT on December 07, 2012    
Quoting Bluestorm5:
It's still amazing that there's debate over it...


it's not debate. it's trolling.
Member Since: August 30, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 73

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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