Typhoon Bopha hits the Philippines at Cat 5 strength; at least 40 killed

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 5:00 PM GMT on December 04, 2012

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Typhoon Bopha slammed ashore on the Philippine island of Mindanao at 4:45 am local time on Tuesday morning as a Category 5 storm with 160 mph winds. Bopha is the third Category 5 typhoon to affect the Western Pacific this year, and the strongest typhoon ever recorded to hit Mindanao, which rarely sees strong typhoons due to its position close to the Equator. The death toll from the powerful storm already stands at 40, and is expected to rise. While passage over land has weakened Bopha to a Category 2 storm, the tropical cyclone is spreading torrential rains over a large portion of the southern Philippine Islands, and this will cause serious flooding problems today. The island of Mindanao is highly vulnerable to flood disasters from tropical cyclones; last year's Tropical Storm Washi, which hit Mindanao on December 16, 2011 with 60 mph winds and torrential rains, killed over 1500 people. Before hitting the Philippines, Typhoon Bopha brought a storm surge estimated at ten feet to the island nation of Palau, where near-total destruction is being reported in some coastal areas.


Figure 1. Super Typhoon Bopha as seen from the International Space Station on December 2, 2012. At the time, Bopha had top sustained winds of 150 - 155 mph. Image credit: NASA.

Bopha: the 2nd most southerly Category 5 typhoon on record
Bopha, a Cambodian word for flower or a girl, became a tropical depression unusually close to the Equator, at 3.6°N latitude. Tropical cyclones rarely form so close to the Equator, because they cannot leverage the Earth's rotation to get themselves spinning. Bopha became the second most southerly Category 5 typhoon on Monday at 7.4°N latitude. The record is held by Typhoon Louise of 1964, which was a Category 5 storm at 7.3°N.


Video 1. Scenes of wind damage and flooding from Typhoon Bopha's landfall in the Philippines yesterday.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting MrMixon:


If only there were any "extra" water in the Rockies. I don't know the situation for other states, but every drop of water in Colorado is already bought and paid for. Most land owners don't own the water on their land here. We're not even (legally) allowed to catch rain water running off our roofs. There's not a single extra drop of water in our stretch of the Rockies to supply an aqueduct system.

Moreover, there are at any one time numerous ongoing lawsuits regarding claims to Colorado water. It's a messy, complicated system and the only real certainty is that there are no longer any springs or ice fields in Colorado that are unclaimed (many are claimed by more than one party - hence the lawsuits).


That seems ludicrous to me... there is a law against collecting your own rain water? That is like the most water consevationy thing a person can do.
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Midway through October, almost 64 percent of the contiguous United States remains in some form of drought, as the nation's most widespread drought since 1956 continues to threaten drinking water supplies, crops and livestock.

A stunning 90 percent of the West is abnormally dry, according to the U.S. Drought Monitor, with large areas of extreme drought in Colorado and Wyoming. Moderate to severe drought now stretches from Montana, south to Arizona, New Mexico and California.

The summer's epic Midwest drought has eased in the region's east, where Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois suffer only moderate drought. But farther west, Iowa still endures extreme drought, while Nebraska, Kansas and Oklahoma are gripped by exceptional drought.
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Quoting MrMixon:


My suggestion would be to abandon the idea of "preventing" floods and droughts and focus instead on tailoring our regional practices and lifestyles to accommodate the conditions we find.

It doesn't make any sense to me that new houses and neighborhoods in Colorado look almost indistinguishable from new houses and neighborhoods in southern Louisiana. These are very different ecosystems which, in my opinion, demand very different design approaches.

I think we could do so much more on a local or regional scale to reduce energy and water needs through smart designs. In Colorado that might mean abandoning the idea of green lawns and focusing on creating communities that maximize water conservation through intelligent building and infrastructure design. In flood-prone areas of the South and East it might mean prohibiting residential construction in the lowest floodzones and repurposing those lands for agriculture and recreation.

I think thousands of little redesign projects to account for local conditions would make just as big a difference as one large project that attempts to circumvent those conditions.


Some of the most insightful comments I've ever seen on here.
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Member Since: Posts: Comments:
think like a permaculturalist.

it isn't the solution to every agrarian problem, but when it comes to making ecosystems more resistant to the vicissitudes of the water cycle it's hard to find anything more effective in the long run.

Quoting MrMixon:


My suggestion would be to abandon the idea of "preventing" floods and droughts and focus instead on tailoring our regional practices and lifestyles to accommodate the conditions we find.

It doesn't make any sense to me that new houses and neighborhoods in Colorado look almost indistinguishable from new houses and neighborhoods in southern Louisiana. These are very different ecosystems which, in my opinion, demand very different design approaches.

I think we could do so much more on a local or regional scale to reduce energy and water needs through smart designs. In Colorado that might mean abandoning the idea of green lawns and focusing on creating communities that maximize water conservation through intelligent building and infrastructure design. In flood-prone areas of the South and East it might mean prohibiting residential construction in the lowest floodzones and repurposing those lands for agriculture and recreation.

I think thousands of little redesign projects to account for local conditions would make just as big a difference as one large project that attempts to circumvent those conditions.
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Quoting nymore:
only the people driving around in those over sized autos will be able to pay.

The poor they will suffer greatly.

After careful considerations of some of your arguments, I have come to the conclusion you should move out of your parents house while you still know everything.


Where'd that comment come from?

I'm aware the poor would still suffer. Why were you more interested in slinging an insult instead of examining fundamental needs of human life?

Besides that, which of my comments do you object to anyway?

There's currently around a billion people in the world classified as "hungry" or similar terms, so where would the extra food come from to feed you or me if we couldn't grow it here?

Do you really think you could buy food from anyone else if the U.S. agriculture tanked due to drought?

Who is going to have that much excess to be able to sell it?

How would you even attempt to grow food for yourself? Many Americans now live a quarter acre to half-acre lots where there's not enough room to do much more than grow a small grocery crop for "stress relief," as a hobby.
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All the talk about aqueducts makes me think of what used to be the Aral Sea.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 6156
Quoting yonzabam:


In mountainous terrain, a slow moving tropical storm can be much more deadly than a fast moving major hurricane.



Ehh, I think I'll take a slow moving tropical storm over a major hurricane any day. I know you said mountains, but still. We had one earlier this year here, tropical storm Debby in Central and North Florida, hours of tropical storm force winds, a long period of surge, multiple tornadoes and 10 to 15 inches of rain. Even with all that though, it mostly an "exciting" weather event for a weather lover like me. Now, if a category 3 or 4 hurricane slammed into my area, I would NOT be saying the same thing. That would be horrific around here, and devastating.

Even regarding mountains, if a category 4 hurricane slams into a mountainous coastline, there will be devastation in those mountainous areas. Just ask Taiwan, who has had major tropical cyclones strike its mountainous terrain. Think about it, the core of a major hurricane running into high terrain, will create devastating weather in that region, the resulting topographic lift is of epic proportions...

I mean yes mountains weaken major hurricanes quickly, but so do landmasses in general. If I lived on mountainous coast. I'd still take a slow moving tropical storm any day over a major hurricane...
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Quoting Bielle:


Can someone tell if the oil pipelines go from source to refinery basically without any intermediate siphoning?



I believe that there are both pipes that transport crude unrefined oil from a drill area or tanker distribution center to a refinery as well as pipes that transport refined petroleum products from refineries to other centers. Not sure but I know we have hundreds of miles of underground pipes transporting that stuff from the coast to inland here in TX. Then you have the Alaska pipeline for example that transports crude oil over 800 miles in a four foot diameter pipe. I believe there are a bunch of pumps throughout the line that are required move the oil across the state.
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Quoting MrMixon:


My suggestion would be to abandon the idea of "preventing" floods and droughts and focus instead on tailoring our regional practices and lifestyles to accommodate the conditions we find.

It doesn't make any sense to me that new houses and neighborhoods in Colorado look almost indistinguishable from new houses and neighborhoods in southern Louisiana. These are very different ecosystems which, in my opinion, demand very different design approaches.

I think we could do so much more on a local or regional scale to reduce energy and water needs through smart designs. In Colorado that might mean abandoning the idea of green lawns and focusing on creating communities that maximize water conservation through intelligent building and infrastructure design. In flood-prone areas of the South and East it might mean prohibiting residential construction in the lowest floodzones and repurposing those lands for agriculture and recreation.

I think thousands of little redesign projects to account for local conditions would make just as big a difference as one large project that attempts to circumvent those conditions.


Thanks for your input Mr. Mixon
Very good thinking in my book..
Each area has a climate of it's own..
Here in Pensacola we have been rated to have the worst water in the US..
I only drink bottled water here and use the municipal water for clothes washing ect..
I finally convinced my mother to quit watering the lawn here...
The lawn was just awful until rains came and wow what a difference..
I agree that as a society we all need to remedy our building codes to allow and encourage better homes with intelligent designs to protect our futures..
Thanks again.. :)
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191. yoboi
Quoting schwankmoe:
am i the only one who finds it just crazy that the shape of the 'exceptional' segment of the drought map almost exactly matches the shape of the ogallala aquifer?

that's just nuts, that is.




and
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190. txjac
A step that everyone could take right now is to get of the bottle! Those plastic water bottles that is.

It takes two gallons of water to make/purify every gallon of bottled water ...and much of the bottled water is tap water to begin with.

Time to buy a filter system for your home or invest in one that works with your faucet.

Actually if we would lessen our dependence on the bottled water we would be helping the environment in two way.

1. Decrease water consumption
2. Decrease some dependency on oil as those platic botlles are evil to the environment.

It's dropped 10 degrees here in Houston ...total overcast ...little bit of thunder and lightening ...and a few sprinkles
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Quoting pcola57:
Mr. Mixon..I hadn't read your post #139 before posting mine at #167..
You brought up some great points there..
My only issue in any of this discussion on water is..
We already know the problem..anyone have some viable options?
A society cannot and will not survive without it..
I'm certainly not downing anyone..we should take all ideas..


Can someone tell if the oil pipelines go from source to refinery basically without any intermediate siphoning?

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Quoting Bielle:


Even if we are ale to move the water around, it won't last long. If we are lucky, the droughts are cyclical on a human-lifetime scale or less, and we won't have to suck up all the stored water. If the droughts are here to stay, then we have too many people to support, even here in North America, and the problems of overpopulation that plague much of the rest of the world, will become ours.

That's a problem faced by everyone. Exaccerbated by times of low food supply.

Surpisingly, the Population here in Trinidad has become quite stable at about 1.3 mil. since 2000 or so.
Education and wealth (petroleum) have made the difference.

Some countries are suffering population decreases which are concerning them. Troubles....
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Quoting pcola57:


We gotta start somewhere..
Right now we have nada..
Any suggestions on alleviating the problem?
I personally wouldn't know where to start.. :)


My suggestion would be to abandon the idea of "preventing" floods and droughts and focus instead on tailoring our regional practices and lifestyles to accommodate the conditions we find.

It doesn't make any sense to me that new houses and neighborhoods in Colorado look almost indistinguishable from new houses and neighborhoods in southern Louisiana. These are very different ecosystems which, in my opinion, demand very different design approaches.

I think we could do so much more on a local or regional scale to reduce energy and water needs through smart designs. In Colorado that might mean abandoning the idea of green lawns and focusing on creating communities that maximize water conservation through intelligent building and infrastructure design. In flood-prone areas of the South and East it might mean prohibiting residential construction in the lowest floodzones and repurposing those lands for agriculture and recreation.

I think thousands of little redesign projects to account for local conditions would make just as big a difference as one large project that attempts to circumvent those conditions.
Member Since: March 26, 2006 Posts: 44 Comments: 1520
Quoting yonzabam:
Water extracted from the Ogallala aquifer irrigates much of the crop land in the drought affected area. But I assume farmers have to pay for that, so grain will be more expensive.

Unfortunately the Ogallala has been drawn down extensively over the years and is replenished very slowly; it is also being polluted. (New York Times 30 Nov 2011: "The Ogallala Aquifer is essential to our food and water security, yet it is being wasted and polluted.") And although farmers and other users have to pay to drill wells and deepen them, and for electricity to pump the water, they don't otherwise pay for the water, as they do for surface water reservoir irrigation.

(Edit:) One major problem, obvious from aerial photos of the area (circular fields, with the wellhead in the center), is that most irrigation is sprinkler-type, very wasteful of water because of evaporation. Much more efficient of water use but more expensive to install is drip irrigation.
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Quoting pottery:

How would you get the ice to flow down your pipe?
Heat it ?


Of course. We could pay the growing unemployed population to melt the ice with blowtorches. At least they'd be earning their welfare money.
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Quoting schwankmoe:
am i the only one who finds it just crazy that the shape of the 'exceptional' segment of the drought map almost exactly matches the shape of the ogallala aquifer?

that's just nuts, that is.

I noticed that as well.
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Quoting pottery:

You are being very depressing.
Factual. But depressing nonetheless.
Cant we discuss something positive and pleasant, like..., er, um, well, .....

It's a lovely evening here today.

:):))


I've had a week of rain and would like to trade for some sun. My dark perceptions may be related to atmospheric gloom, an ironic factor when discussing water shortages.
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Mr. Mixon..I hadn't read your post #139 before posting mine at #167..
You brought up some great points there..
My only issue in any of this discussion on water is..
We already know the problem..anyone have some viable options?
A society cannot and will not survive without it..
I'm certainly not downing anyone..we should take all ideas..
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Quoting MrMixon:


If only there were any "extra" water in the Rockies. I don't know the situation for other states, but every drop of water in Colorado is already bought and paid for. Most land owners don't own the water on their land here. We're not even (legally) allowed to catch rain water running off our roofs. There's not a single extra drop of water in our stretch of the Rockies to supply an aqueduct system.

Moreover, there are at any one time numerous ongoing lawsuits regarding claims to Colorado water. It's a messy, complicated system and the only real certainty is that there are no longer any springs or ice fields in Colorado that are unclaimed (many are claimed by more than one party - hence the lawsuits).


But it's legal to smoke weed there now huh? hell with the law, take all the water you want off your property
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Quoting nymore:
only the people driving around in those over sized autos will be able to pay.

The poor they will suffer greatly.

After careful considerations of some of your arguments, I have come to the conclusion you should move out of your parents house while you still know everything.


We were doing fine with this discussion on civil terms, until your last sentence. Reconsidering it -there is a "Modify comment" button- would be helpful.
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am i the only one who finds it just crazy that the shape of the 'exceptional' segment of the drought map almost exactly matches the shape of the ogallala aquifer?

that's just nuts, that is.

Quoting RitaEvac:






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Quoting JustPlantIt:

I like the idea, but if there is no precipitation, lakes, rivers are low and wells are dry... this doesn't work.


We might need to look at desalination as an option and pump/pipe it to the regions that need it. We've been refining oil and transporting it across thousands of miles pipe in this country for decades. You'd think we'd be able to do the same thing with H20. Also I think that once the heartland has gotten its soil moisture back up it will help break the drought cycle in that region.
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Quoting pcola57:


We gotta start somewhere..
Right now we have nada..
Any suggestions on alleviating the problem?
I personally wouldn't know where to start.. :)


It's a networking problem, not unlike interstate highways or the internet.

You just need to figure out who tends to need the most water and who tends to have the most water, and run pipelines between them for starters. Then you can set up hubs for redirecting water to other cities, or reversing the flow if needed.

You could probably get a pretty decent system by following the existing interstate highway system, although some ants or bacteria on a scaled model of the nation could probably find something more efficient than humans, as they are very good at networking algorithms for finding the most efficient configuration.
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Quoting Bielle:


Clean water, clean air, healthy food: we have managed to blind ourselves to the problems in no longer being able to provide the first two, and now we are risk of doing the same with water. Dirty water is better than no water up to a point, like dirty air and unhealthy food. When do we reach the point, I wonder?

You are being very depressing.
Factual. But depressing nonetheless.
Cant we discuss something positive and pleasant, like..., er, um, well, .....

It's a lovely evening here today.

:):))
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Quoting pottery:

How would you get the ice to flow down your pipe?
Heat it ?


Even if we are ale to move the water around, it won't last long. If we are lucky, the droughts are cyclical on a human-lifetime scale or less, and we won't have to suck up all the stored water. If the droughts are here to stay, then we have too many people to support, even here in North America, and the problems of overpopulation that plague much of the rest of the world, will become ours.
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


Wouldn't need it too, there are plenty of springs and permanent ice caps in the Rockies, plus the high altitude would help the gravity fed aqueducts get the water to the desired destinations.


If only there were any "extra" water in the Rockies. I don't know the situation for other states, but every drop of water in Colorado is already bought and paid for. Most land owners don't own the water on their land here. We're not even (legally) allowed to catch rain water running off our roofs. There's not a single extra drop of water in our stretch of the Rockies to supply an aqueduct system.

Moreover, there are at any one time numerous ongoing lawsuits regarding claims to Colorado water. It's a messy, complicated system and the only real certainty is that there are no longer any springs or ice fields in Colorado that are unclaimed (many are claimed by more than one party - hence the lawsuits).
Member Since: March 26, 2006 Posts: 44 Comments: 1520
Quoting RTSplayer:


You're missing an important point that food is not an option.

If food prices doubled, you'd pay it, no matter what else you had to give up.

There would just be fewer people driving around in over-sized, over-priced autos, fewer people building over-sized houses, and fewer people wearing designer jeans, and of course fewer people buying a double or triple stack at Wendy's or Burger King, and only a few people would have smartphones, instead of everyone. You'd just buy what you need instead of what you want, and considering we're supposedly the most wealthy nation in the world, I figure there's a lot of room for change in there. There would be even more if the top 1% wasn't robbing everyone else, but that's another discussion.


The point here is food is the most valuable thing in your life. Americans are just too disconnected from reality, with too many man-made abstraction layers to even be aware of this fact.
only the people driving around in those over sized autos will be able to pay.

The poor they will suffer greatly.

After careful considerations of some of your arguments, I have come to the conclusion you should move out of your parents house while you still know everything.
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2260
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
The National Hurricane Center Tropical Cyclone Reports for Hurricane Michael and Tropical Storm Oscar are out.

Michael

Duration: 3-11 September
Max. winds: 100 knots (115 mph) (09/06/2012 12z)
Min. pressure: 964 millibars (09/06/2012 12z)
Damage: N/A
Fatalities: 0

Oscar

Duration: 3-5 October
Max. winds: 45 knots (50 mph) (10/05/2012 06z)
Min. pressure: 994 millibars (10/05/2012 06z)
Damage: N/A
Fatalities: 0
I thought Michael was a little stronger than 115mph but oh well.
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


Those peaks are too high to be effected by a couple of degrees of temperature rise.
I disagree, a few degrees and lots of wind would devastate the peaks of water. Just my thoughts.The evaporation of moisture that is.
Member Since: November 13, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 488
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
Ever wondered what your daily probability of being under a Storm Prediction Center high risk is?

Daily High Risk Probabilities
I haven't looked at the link yet, but if you're talking severe risk area on a Convective Outlook annually, I figure central Oklahoma at about .0055% which amounts a high risk severe day two times a year. Realistically, could be half that.

As far the risk stated on watches when watches are issued, I don't know if I should factor that in, or if that is a separate thing. I think the risk on watches would be slightly higher than the convective outlook high risk days.

Haha. I looked. I see that is from Patrick Marsh. And that it's based on different times of year, not just an annual look. That's neat. Thanks for posting it. Maybe you follow his website. Sometimes I do. He expresses some interesting ideas and opinions. And data. LOL
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


Those peaks are too high to be effected by a couple of degrees of temperature rise.

How would you get the ice to flow down your pipe?
Heat it ?
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Quoting pottery:

Yeah, I knew that.

To me, it's a very real issue, which I dont usually make light of.
I dont think that people are aware of the issues with water.
The drinking water in London is currently recycled 7 times as far as I know. That's scary enough for me.


Clean water, clean air, healthy food: we have managed to blind ourselves to the problems in no longer being able to provide the first two, and now we are risk of doing the same with water. Dirty water is better than no water up to a point, like dirty air and unhealthy food. When do we reach the point, I wonder?
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Quoting MrMixon:


The Romans did not redistribute massive floodwaters with aqueducts. They used them to bring fountains and running water to urban dwellings and then only where gravity provided favorable conditions to do it.

There's a big scale difference between making a cute fountain in your town square and moving hundreds of millions of acre-feet of water up and over a hydrologic divide.

I've done some back-of-the-envelope calculations using stated costs of existing pipeline systems compared to volumetric estimates for floods/droughts. The numbers aren't even close. The Treasury couldn't print money fast enough to create a nationwide (or even regional) drought/flood relief network.


We gotta start somewhere..
Right now we have nada..
Any suggestions on alleviating the problem?
I personally wouldn't know where to start.. :)

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Quoting JustPlantIt:

And.... how permanent are those ice caps with 'global warming'?


Those peaks are too high to be effected by a couple of degrees of temperature rise.
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


Wouldn't need it too, there are plenty of springs and permanent ice caps in the Rockies, plus the high altitude would help the gravity fed aqueducts get the water to the desired destinations.
And.... how permanent are those ice caps with 'global warming'?
Member Since: November 13, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 488
Quoting yoboi:



they thank the left wing for supporting it?

That's pretty good actually.
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163. yoboi
Quoting bappit:
From Wikipedia:

"In political jargon, useful idiot is a pejorative term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause."

Since China has passed the US in CO2 output as part of its economic miracle, that should make China the de facto leader of the denialist movement. I wonder how the Chinese view the typically right wing denial propagandists.



they thank the left wing for supporting it?
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An interesting view of Bopha:
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Quoting bappit:
From Wikipedia:

"In political jargon, useful idiot is a pejorative term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause."

Since China has passed the US in CO2 output as part of its economic miracle, that should make China the de facto leader of the denialist movement. I wonder how the Chinese view the typically right wing denial propagandists.


Uh Oh.....

heheheheh
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From Wikipedia:

"In political jargon, useful idiot is a pejorative term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause."

Since China has passed the US in CO2 output as part of its economic miracle, that should make China the de facto leader of the denialist movement. I wonder how the Chinese view the typically right wing denial propagandists.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 6156
Quoting JustPlantIt:

I like the idea, but if there is no precipitation, lakes, rivers are low and wells are dry... this doesn't work.


Wouldn't need it too, there are plenty of springs and permanent ice caps in the Rockies, plus the high altitude would help the gravity fed aqueducts get the water to the desired destinations.
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Quoting Bielle:

"Annex", "go to war": as between Canada and the U.S.A., it's just words. However, you would still have the problem of moving water from north to south as well as across the divides, and the problem of monitoring the lines against espionage and terrorism -all of which you already knew. :)

Yeah, I knew that.

To me, it's a very real issue, which I dont usually make light of.
I dont think that people are aware of the issues with water.
The drinking water in London is currently recycled 7 times as far as I know. That's scary enough for me.
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Quoting PlazaRed:
Land area of the contiguous United States is 2,959,064 square miles (7,663,941 km2)
Land area of the Roman empire:- 2,750,000 km²

Roughly a third the land area of the lower United States.

Not a bad lump of land area to control and irrigate for about 800 years. Not all of it needed irrigating of course but Ive seen some pretty impressive aqueducts that are still in use 2000 years after they were built.

Supper time now!
I like the idea, but if there is no precipitation, lakes, rivers are low and wells are dry... this doesn't work.
Member Since: November 13, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 488
Quoting pottery:

Absolutely.
So I go back to my post 112.

The US is on track to become the MegaManufacturer again.
The economy will grow again.
This will allow for funding of Great Projects again.
Hopefully with all the 'right' intentions/balances in place.

Hopeful times ?


Maybe build up the defense department to the "T" to super size it?
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Quoting yonzabam:


It would be cheaper to dump water on farmland with those planes that are used to fight forest fires.
>True. But where do you get the water ?
A hundred cubic miles a month or something.
....
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Quoting MrMixon:


Good point. Barring some miraculous technological advancement, the price of water is destined to rise at a rapid clip over the coming decades.

But of course the ecological and NIMBY issues remain. Plus our modern society has clearly lost its appetite for large engineering projects. Used to be these large projects were held up as evidence of a country's success. These days people just ask "how much will it cost?" and the conversation never makes it past the planning phase...

Absolutely.
So I go back to my post 112.

The US is on track to become the MegaManufacturer again.
The economy will grow again.
This will allow for funding of Great Projects again.
Hopefully with all the 'right' intentions/balances in place.

Hopeful times ?
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Ever wondered what your daily probability of being under a Storm Prediction Center high risk is?

Daily High Risk Probabilities
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Quoting nymore:


Either the crop won't grow or by your water idea If I bought enough to grow my crops you could not afford them anyway.

So what is the difference?


You're missing an important point that food is not an option.

If food prices doubled, you'd pay it, no matter what else you had to give up.

There would just be fewer people driving around in over-sized, over-priced autos, fewer people building over-sized houses, and fewer people wearing designer jeans, and of course fewer people buying a double or triple stack at Wendy's or Burger King, and only a few people would have smartphones, instead of everyone. You'd just buy what you need instead of what you want, and considering we're supposedly the most wealthy nation in the world, I figure there's a lot of room for change in there. There would be even more if the top 1% wasn't robbing everyone else, but that's another discussion.


The point here is food is the most valuable thing in your life. Americans are just too disconnected from reality, with too many man-made abstraction layers to even be aware of this fact.
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Quoting pottery:

It would be cheaper to annex Canada, actually. And Russia.

:):))

"Annex", "go to war": as between Canada and the U.S.A., it's just words. However, you would still have the problem of moving water from north to south as well as across the divides, and the problem of monitoring the lines against espionage and terrorism -all of which you already knew. :)
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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