Damaging Katrina-level storm surges are twice as likely in warm years

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 5:22 PM GMT on November 26, 2012

Share this Blog
43
+

Perhaps the most stunning images in the wake of Hurricane Sandy were the sight of the roller coaster from the Casino Pier in Seaside Heights, New Jersey lying in the Atlantic Ocean. The images reminded us that hurricane storm surges are capable of causing tremendous destruction along the coast, and one of the main concerns on how global warming might affect hurricanes is the potential for stronger hurricanes to create larger storm surges. We expect that global warming should make the strongest hurricanes stronger, since hurricanes are heat engines that take heat energy out of the ocean and converts it to wind energy. These stronger winds will be capable of piling up higher storm surges. However, it is controversial whether or not we have observed an increase in the strongest hurricanes, since hurricane winds are hard to observe. Our long-term hurricane data base is generally too low in quality and covers too short a period of time to make very good estimates of how climate change may be affecting hurricane winds. However, a new 2012 paper, "Homogeneous record of Atlantic hurricane surge threat since 1923" by Grinsted et al., looked at storm surge data from six tide gauges along the U.S. coast from Texas to New Jersey, and concluded that the number of moderately large hurricane and tropical storm surge events has increased since 1923. Moderately large storm surge events are on pace to nearly double by the year 2100, compared to 20th century levels. Moreover, 1-in-9 year to 1-in-30 year Katrina-level storm surge events are twice as likely to occur in warm years compared to cool years, and thus global warming may be able to dramatically increase the frequency of highly damaging extreme storm surge events. Since sea level is steadily rising due to global warming, these future storm surges will also be riding in on top of an elevated ocean surface, and will thus be able to do even greater damage than in the past. Expect to see many more shocking storm surge damage photos in the coming decades, unless we wise up, retreat from areas highly vulnerable to storm surge, and invest in increased shoreline protection measures.


Figure 1. The Casino Pier in Seaside Heights, N.J. taken during a search and rescue mission by 1-150 Assault Helicopter Battalion, New Jersey Army National Guard on Oct. 30, 2012. Image credit: U.S. Air Force photo by Master Sgt. Mark C. Olsen.


Figure 2. Top: Observed long-term frequency of moderately large storm surge events from hurricanes and tropical storms measured at six tide gauges along the U.S. East Coast (inset map). The thick line is a 5-year moving average. These type of surge events occurred an average of 5.4 times/year between 1923 - 2008, and are on pace to increase to 9.5 events per year by 2100. Bottom: Departure of Earth's annual mean surface temperature from average, shaded to show warmer and colder than median temperatures. Large storm surge events increase in probability during warmer than average years. Image credit: Grinsted et al. 2012, "A homogeneous record of Atlantic hurricane surge threat since 1923."

Using storm surge to evaluate damage normalization studies
Damage from landfalling storms can be used to estimate if hurricanes are growing stronger with time, but damage estimates must first be corrected to account for changes in wealth and population over time. A 2008 study by Pielke et al. found that although hurricane damages had been doubling every ten years in recent decades, there were no increases in normalized hurricane damages in the U.S. from 1900 - 2005. They used census and economic data to adjust for how increases in populations and wealth may have affected hurricane damages over time. However, Grinsted et al. (2012) questioned whether or not this was done correctly. They found that storm surge heights of U.S. hurricanes and tropical storms correlated very well with metrics that looked at storm intensity, when looking at many decades of data to see long-term trends. However, the researchers found that while short-term trends in normalized hurricane damage estimated by Pielke et al. (2008) did correlate well historical storm surges, these normalized damages had poor correlation with the storm surge record, when looking at decades-long time scales. This implies that the corrections were biased. Dr. Stephan Lewandowsky of the University of Western Australia makes the case that efforts such as the one done by Pielke et al. (2008) to normalize disaster losses are probably biased too low, since they only look at factors that tend to increase disaster losses with time, but ignore factors that tend to decrease disaster losses. These ignored factors include improvements in building codes, better weather forecasts allowing more preparation time, and improved fire-fighting ability. He writes, "Most normalization research to date has not accounted for those variables because they are extremely difficult to quantify. (And most researchers have been at pains to point that out; e.g., Neumayer & Barthel, 2011, pp. 23-24.) In effect, normalization research to date largely rests on the oddly inconsistent pair of assumptions that (a) we have built up enormous wealth during the 20th century but (b) did so without any technological advance whatsoever." Grinsted et al. (2012) suggest that it may be possible to use their storm surge data to correct biased hurricane damage estimates, though. Take home message: studies showing no increase in normalized damage from storms have high uncertainty, and it is possible that higher economic damages due to stronger hurricanes are indeed occurring.

References
Grinsted, A., J. C. Moore, and S. Jevrejeva, 2012, "A homogeneous record of Atlantic hurricane surge threat since 1923," PNAS 2012, doi:10.1073/pnas.1209542109

Pielke et al., 2008, "Normalized Hurricane Damage in the United States: 1900–2005", Natural Hazards Review, Volume 9, Issue 1, pp. 29-42.

Links
In this remarkable home video, 15-year-old Christofer Sochacki captures the evening high tide on the day Superstorm Sandy struck Union Beach, New Jersey. The later part of the video shows how high waves on top of a 8-foot storm surge can lead to a punishing assault on beach-front structures.

Jeff Masters

Reader Comments

Comments will take a few seconds to appear.

Post Your Comments

Please sign in to post comments.

or Join

Not only will you be able to leave comments on this blog, but you'll also have the ability to upload and share your photos in our Wunder Photos section.

Display: 0, 50, 100, 200 Sort: Newest First - Order Posted

Viewing: 230 - 180

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17Blog Index

Quoting CybrTeddy:


99% sure that's a airplane, at the speeds a meteor would be going, you'd be lucky to have gotten a single shot of it.


A few tens of kilometers per second isn't impossible to get several photos off, seeing as how it probably would be approaching at an angle.

Here's a fireball from a meteor, and it was seen for a while.



and



and

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting WeatherfanPR:


First One at 5:49 pm est

Second One at 5:49 pm est

Third One at 5:50 pm est

A meteor is gone within seconds. It's a west bound plane.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting WeatherfanPR:


First One at 5:49 pm est

Second One at 5:49 pm est

Third One at 5:50 pm est
Definitely a westward-bound jet aircraft.

If you're unsure about what you saw, you can always check other reports at the AMS report page, or even report your own sighting.
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13462
Quoting CybrTeddy:
Certainly not everyday you see such a large circulation at 4.2N.


the outer southern circulation goes over the equator,...amazing
Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 104 Comments: 14871
226. yoboi
Quoting schwankmoe:


reaping what he sows? as if it's his fault that people refuse to see reality?

this is all a bunch of scapegoating. people refuse to accept reality, and stubbornly point to al gore as the reason why, when we all know it has nothing to do with him. he's just a convenient excuse. if al gore dropped off the grid and lived in a shack, as i said before, they'd just find someone else to be 'the new excuse'.



sales 101 if you want to sell a product and be very good at it, you will have more sales if you use said product....
Member Since: August 25, 2010 Posts: 7 Comments: 2329

Quoting WeatherfanPR:



I just looked out the window and saw this bright thing falling. I wasn't expecting to see that.
Great shots of whatever you've got. I would think that this was not a plane. Not sure. Hope others saw this as well. Can anyone see radar for this?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AussieStorm:


What was the time different between the photo's. Maybe turn the local tv or radio on and see if anyone else saw it.


First One at 5:49 pm est

Second One at 5:49 pm est

Third One at 5:50 pm est
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
223. yoboi
Quoting schistkicker:


That may be true, but that's not science.

What does the data say. That's science. It doesn't matter if the person presenting the data is Republican, Democrat, Green, feminist, Christian, Muslim, atheist, Hispanic, Caucasian, Japanese, Inuit, philanthropist, pacifist, or a child molester (though they'd have a lot of trouble getting speaking gigs).

If the experimental setup or model input is valid, and the methodology is clear, and the results are repeatable, then that's incorporated into scientific knowledge. Not what "feels right" to the author, or "should be true".

You're allowed to develop your own interpretations based on the observed data and trends, and present your own knowledgeable opinion based on same; that's not a problem at all-- that's what happens at professional conferences.

If you develop your own opinions in spite of the data or regardless of the data, or in ignorance of things like chemistry or the laws of thermodynamics, be prepared to have those flaws pointed out to you. If you choose to repeat them, be prepared to have those flaws pointed out less nicely. After all, you're bringing non-science or anti-science practices to a scientific debate.



all i said is 1 +1 = 2 they both had opinions....

if your in a boat that is sinking and you have a bucket do you keep saying the boat is sinking until it has sunk??? or do you use the bucket to keep from sinking????
Member Since: August 25, 2010 Posts: 7 Comments: 2329
Quoting JustPlantIt:

'Think' is the key word. My neighbor often takes pics of meteor showers. He can get several pics of just 'One'. Just a curious observer.



I just looked out the window and saw this bright thing falling. I wasn't expecting to see that.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
221. txjac
Quoting schwankmoe:


reaping what he sows? as if it's his fault that people refuse to see reality?

this is all a bunch of scapegoating. people refuse to accept reality, and stubbornly point to al gore as the reason why, when we all know it has nothing to do with him. he's just a convenient excuse. if al gore dropped off the grid and lived in a shack, as i said before, they'd just find someone else to be 'the new excuse'.


Dont yell ...lol
I'm a believer and try to lead by example ...I just have no influence or money. I'd just like the same from others where the impact would be larger.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting WeatherfanPR:
Did someone in Tampa Bay Area or elsewhere saw a meteor or something bright falling from the sky around 5:50 pm today ? This is what I saw.









What was the time different between the photo's. Maybe turn the local tv or radio on and see if anyone else saw it.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting txjac:


It's called Lead by Example

Right now he's "Reaping What He Sows"

I've read some of the comments here where people have posted what they are doing to reduce their carbon footprints and I've posted what I have done to reduce mine. I've learned from people here. But I learn when I'm presented ideas and information in a positive manner. Sometimes you ask a question, seeking a response and you get ridiculed.


reaping what he sows? as if it's his fault that people refuse to see reality?

this is all a bunch of scapegoating. people refuse to accept reality, and stubbornly point to al gore as the reason why, when we all know it has nothing to do with him. he's just a convenient excuse. if al gore dropped off the grid and lived in a shack, as i said before, they'd just find someone else to be 'the new excuse'.
Member Since: October 18, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 676
Quoting txjac:


Pretty steep dive for an airplane isnt it?


depends on the perspective. it appears to me that it is just a contrail photographed at an oblique angle.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:

Quoting WeatherfanPR:


I see airplanes daily and believe me, this thing was going down so I don't think this was an airplane.
'Think' is the key word. My neighbor often takes pics of meteor showers. He can get several pics of just 'One'. Just a curious observer.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting CybrTeddy:
Certainly not everyday you see such a large circulation at 4.2N.

Looks like it could hit Papua New Guinea which would mean it crosses over. It's curtainately drawing in moisture from PNG.


Loop
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting AstroHurricane001:


I thought standard motor vehicles already use the torque on their wheel axles to recharge the battery?

The standard vehicle uses an alternator that is belt driven from the engine to recharge the battery and to produce power to run the car. No alternator, no power. A standard 12V car battery doesn't last more than 2 minutes without an alternator. I have experienced it myself.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting txjac:


Pretty steep dive for an airplane isnt it?



exactly!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting CybrTeddy:


99% sure that's a airplane, at the speeds a meteor would be going, you'd be lucky to have gotten a single shot of it.


I see airplanes daily and believe me, this thing was going down so I don't think this was an airplane.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Does anyone know in which year a Typhoon was out there and how strong it was on late November in the WPAC? I sense that BOPHA will be at least a cat 3 at peak.
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14052
211. txjac
Quoting CybrTeddy:


99% sure that's a airplane, at the speeds a meteor would be going, you'd be lucky to have gotten a single shot of it.


Pretty steep dive for an airplane isnt it?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting indianrivguy:


civilization comes to a pie point down there.. Andrew crossed the tip... 25 miles north would have doubled or more the cost.. prolly in lives too.

Katrina was the same. We lost a LOT of people, but had Katrina come in 30 miles west, we "could" have 5 thousand in an hour.

Location is pretty dang important at landfall.
IRG......Exactly. I worked for 6 weeks after Andrew hit.. I saw the unbelieveable. BUT, You are correct, If Andrew hit 25 to 30 miles north of where it did....Now that would be the #1.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting indianrivguy:


I have a wind up light... :) can't find it, but I have one.

they do that already Aussie.. the electric drive motors turn into generators off throttle, and stopping.

but do they need any outside connectivity? As I said, the new volt from Holden(GM)Mitsubishi IMIEV, Nissan LEAF are all plug in cars. These are the current technologies.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
208. txjac
Quoting WeatherfanPR:
Did someone in Tampa Bay Area or elsewhere saw a meteor or something bright falling from the sky around 5:50 pm today ? This is what I saw.








\

Nice pictures ...wonder what it was ...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting WeatherfanPR:
Did someone in Tampa Bay Area or elsewhere saw a meteor or something bright falling from the sky around 5:50 pm today ? This is what I saw.









99% sure that's a airplane, at the speeds a meteor would be going, you'd be lucky to have gotten a single shot of it.
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 259 Comments: 23606
Speaking of extremes, wouldn't it be just incredible if you had a hurricane develop off the west coast of South America, south of the Galapagos? As far as I know, there's never been anything remotely like a tropical cyclone in the Southeastern Pacific Ocean.
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 259 Comments: 23606
Did someone in Tampa Bay Area or elsewhere saw a meteor or something bright falling from the sky around 5:50 pm today ? This is what I saw.







Member Since: Posts: Comments:
204. txjac
Quoting AussieStorm:
I have a thought, I'll put it out there.

Who here has a whine up torch/flash-light?
Would it be possible to use the same technology in a whined up torch/flash-light in a car, Say put it in each wheel hub, with 4 separate banks of batteries. The front two banks of batteries run an electric motor, the rear two banks for lights and all other accessories, radio, power steering.

There will always be power available in the batteries, there will be no need to stop on long distance drives except for rest stops. Imagine driving from Miami, Fla. to New York, NY or Charlotte, NC. to Los Angeles, CA. or from Sydney to Perth and all you stopped for was to sleep or to eat. I know there are cars that plug into the socket at home or in the street but none that make the electricity themself.

Just a thought.


Interesting thought - and I believe that it is Israel that is already on it ...only going at it in a differnt approach. They are putting the batteries in the road and the fricton from the tires is causing the charge to the battery. They have already been able to light parts of the city doing this.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
85 today in Austin Texas, we have been mostly above average to well above average last few months.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AussieStorm:
I have a thought, I'll put it out there.

Who here has a whine up torch/flash-light?
Would it be possible to use the same technology in a whined up torch/flash-light in a car, Say put it in each wheel hub, with 4 separate banks of batteries. The front two banks of batteries run an electric motor, the rear two banks for lights and all other accessories, radio, power steering.

There will always be power available in the batteries, there will be no need to stop on long distance drives except for rest stops. Imagine driving from Miami, Fla. to New York, NY or Charlotte, NC. to Los Angeles, CA. or from Sydney to Perth and all you stopped for was to sleep or to eat. I know there are cars that plug into the socket at home or in the street but none that make the electricity themself.

Just a thought.


I thought standard motor vehicles already use the torque on their wheel axles to recharge the battery?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Certainly not everyday you see such a large circulation at 4.2N.
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 259 Comments: 23606
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:Keep shouting louder and maybe he'll hear you.
Seriously just let it go.


Shouting???? really??
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting Jedkins01:



Because its not the driving force in the department. Way back when, what we now consider piece of junk computers were extremely expensive until they became industry and essential to the modern world. The fact is, green energy isn't valuable enough to people as a whole yet, it needs to become so in order to replace fossil fuels and other inefficient sources of energy. People as a whole need to make ecology more important than they currently are in order for better and cheaper technology becomes widespread for all. Unfortunately though, most giants in big business don't support the effort. Until that changes, it will be a slow struggle.

If each of us learn to sacrifice for each other and do our part, we can change the world, and make it a cleaner place to live.
Trust me... I TRY. Hard to change some people's views, or the governments.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AussieStorm:
I have a thought, I'll put it out there.

Who here has a whine up torch/flash-light?
Would it be possible to use the same technology in a whined up torch/flash-light in a car, Say put it in each wheel hub, with 4 separate banks of batteries. The front two banks of batteries run an electric motor, the rear two banks for lights and all other accessories, radio, power steering.

There will always be power available in the batteries, there will be no need to stop on long distance drives except for rest stops. Imagine driving from Miami, Fla. to New York, NY or Charlotte, NC. to Los Angeles, CA. or from Sydney to Perth and all you stopped for was to sleep or to eat. I know there are cars that plug into the socket at home or in the street but none that make the electricity themself.

Just a thought.


I have a wind up light... :) can't find it, but I have one.

they do that already Aussie.. the electric drive motors turn into generators off throttle, and stopping.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting MAweatherboy1:
The GFS has been shifting south with 26W's path, more in line with the Euro which has moved north some. Direct impacts on the Philippines still seem unlikely as the system should recurve sharply in 5-7 days, but it's worth keeping an eye on as it would likely be a very powerful system if it does head in that direction.

It's already getting that shape:


Small but powerful, not two words normally used for WPAC systems.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting plutorising:
it's not the subject matter that starts the arguments. trolls start arguments.

No, it's people trying to get there side, views, scientific facts across that causes arguments. I have over 160 handle on my ignore list. 99% are trolls the other 1% is made up of Taz( the wannabe blog police man) and a few others.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
I have a thought, I'll put it out there.

Who here has a whine up torch/flash-light?
Would it be possible to use the same technology in a whined up torch/flash-light in a car, Say put it in each wheel hub, with 4 separate banks of batteries. The front two banks of batteries run an electric motor, the rear two banks for lights and all other accessories, radio, power steering.

There will always be power available in the batteries, there will be no need to stop on long distance drives except for rest stops. Imagine driving from Miami, Fla. to New York, NY or Charlotte, NC. to Los Angeles, CA. or from Sydney to Perth and all you stopped for was to sleep or to eat. I know there are cars that plug into the socket at home or in the street but none that make the electricity themself.

Just a thought.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting txjac:


I do reduce my carbon footprint - even moved to reduce it.

And yes, one person reducing their footprint, especially when they are one of the largest promotors of AWG and has great influence, could do much. I would think with much of the income that he has made since being our vice president that he could put into getting us off the "big oil" We need people like him to step up with some of his money and invest in greener technologies



Getting off of "big oil" isn't like stopping smoking.
You actually need an alternative, not just to quit.
The VP has a very very small influence on getting us off of it. Its actually just putting ideas to use and doing research and inventing that has the biggest influence.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
The GFS has been shifting south with 26W's path, more in line with the Euro which has moved north some. Direct impacts on the Philippines still seem unlikely as the system should recurve sharply in 5-7 days, but it's worth keeping an eye on as it would likely be a very powerful system if it does head in that direction.

It's already getting that shape:

Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 82 Comments: 7629
Indianrivguy - Thanks for the link to the flow rate site.

-

Hope everyone is recovering well from Thanksgiving overeating.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting plutorising:
it's not the subject matter that starts the arguments. trolls start arguments.


not really we havent had many trolls

Quoting VaStormGuy:
I don't wanna be a cynic, but does one person reducing their carbon footprint really do anything? Sure, if many people do it might have a slight impact on the CO2 emissions... But really, the only way the CO2 emission problem can be solved is through investment in clean energy sources by the free market, and not through government regulation. When companies see wind,solar,and nuclear as profitable energy sources, that is when we will begin to reduce carbon emissions. Not before.

So please... fighting over Al Gore's carbon footprint is ridiculous. Why not concern yourself more with your carbon footprint (even though it's minuscule) and not someone elses.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled exciting weather... wait, there really isn't any, that's why this nonsense is the topic right now.


They will see it as profitable when somebody makes the techonology...just like they saw fridges, oil production, and HVAC units as profitable

Quoting AussieStorm:

So Nea, why won't you answer my "simple" yet serious questions?

Just cause you have answered before doesn't mean there is no new people here that also would like to know your answers again. Or as I said before, write a blog.


Keep shouting louder and maybe he'll hear you.
Seriously just let it go.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
190. txjac
Quoting VaStormGuy:
I don't wanna be a cynic, but does one person reducing their carbon footprint really do anything? Sure, if many people do it might have a slight impact on the CO2 emissions... But really, the only way the CO2 emission problem can be solved is through investment in clean energy sources by the free market, and not through government regulation. When companies see wind,solar,and nuclear as profitable energy sources, that is when we will begin to reduce carbon emissions. Not before.

So please... fighting over Al Gore's carbon footprint is ridiculous. Why not concern yourself more with your carbon footprint (even though it's minuscule) and not someone elses.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled exciting weather... wait, there really isn't any, that's why this nonsense is the topic right now.


I do reduce my carbon footprint - even moved to reduce it.

And yes, one person reducing their footprint, especially when they are one of the largest promotors of AWG and has great influence, could do much. I would think with much of the income that he has made since being our vice president that he could put into getting us off the "big oil" We need people like him to step up with some of his money and invest in greener technologies

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AussieStorm:

Morning, had a couple of storms that knocked out the net. I'm glad for a new blog but the subject matter just starts arguments.


Yea it does. You have been under the threat of storms for nearly a week now... is that a normal thing this time of year?

Heres a pretty cool gif from Go Hydrology

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting AussieStorm:

Morning, had a couple of storms that knocked out the net. I'm glad for a new blog but the subject matter just starts arguments.
it's not the subject matter that starts the arguments. trolls start arguments.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting indianrivguy:
Good morning Mate, good to have you around, happy tomorrow!

Morning, had a couple of storms that knocked out the net. I'm glad for a new blog but the subject matter just starts arguments.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting Neapolitan:
And just how many times must I remind you that I'm not here to change anyone's mind? I'm only here to post actual, substantiated, verifiable, empirical scientific facts; whether some choose to do their own research and ultimately accept those facts is entirely up to them, not me. Now, I will gladly and politely engage with those who are honestly curious or skeptical. But when confronting those who are only here to spout debunked anti-scientific nonsense, or disparage great scientists like Dr. Masters or James Hansen or Michael Mann, or sling mud and ad hominems at the forum's more respected members, or just play trollish games, I will ridicule them with as much snark as is allowable by the rules of the forum.

In short, I'm here to share, not to sway opinions or make friends or win a popularity contest. I'm actually surprised you asked; I thought I'd made all that pretty clear.


Your right you are not here to win a popularity contest, but if you honestly believe you are right, and others are wrong, wouldn't you want them to come to your side?
Anyone who was as you say honestly here to discuss wouldn't be very likely to listen to you after the way you talk to them, that's all I was saying. What is the point of all your dialogue if it has no intended effect? You don't seem to be the type of person who would wish to wast time by talk for talking's sake.
Although I think you also may be too readily combining AGW denialist and troll. I really see no point in "posting facts" with no hope of your posting having any effect, unless you really need a vent place, and I find that hard to believe.
You are here to share, and my assumption is that it isn't for no purpose. You make some good points, its just how you make them...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
did someone in Tampa saw a meteor or something bright falling from the sky around 5:50 pm today ?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
I don't wanna be a cynic, but does one person reducing their carbon footprint really do anything? Sure, if many people do it might have a slight impact on the CO2 emissions... But really, the only way the CO2 emission problem can be solved is through investment in clean energy sources by the free market, and not through government regulation. When companies see wind,solar,and nuclear as profitable energy sources, that is when we will begin to reduce carbon emissions. Not before.

So please... fighting over Al Gore's carbon footprint is ridiculous. Why not concern yourself more with your carbon footprint (even though it's minuscule) and not someone elses.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled exciting weather... wait, there really isn't any, that's why this nonsense is the topic right now.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Good morning Mate, good to have you around, happy tomorrow!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Neapolitan:
And just how many times must I remind you that I'm not here to change anyone's mind? I'm only here to post actual, substantiated, verifiable, empirical scientific facts; whether some choose to do their own research and ultimately accept those facts is entirely up to them, not me. Now, I will gladly and politely engage with those who are honestly curious or skeptical. But when confronting those who are only here to spout debunked anti-scientific nonsense, or disparage great scientists like Dr. Masters or James Hansen or Michael Mann, or sling mud and ad hominems at the forum's more respected members, or just play trollish games, I will ridicule them with as much snark as is allowable by the rules of the forum.

In short, I'm here to share, not to sway opinions or make friends or win a popularity contest. I'm actually surprised you asked; I thought I'd made all that pretty clear.

So Nea, why won't you answer my "simple" yet serious questions?

Just cause you have answered before doesn't mean there is no new people here that also would like to know your answers again. Or as I said before, write a blog.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15932
Quoting JustPlantIt:
I need to add my 2 cents to the 'Carbon footprint'.Why in this country are 'Energy savers' more in cost? Why does Geothermal, solar and wind cost soooooo much more? Why does my trash cost the same even though I recycle? Why does a toilet that only flushes 1.6 cost sooooo much more?FOOTPRINT.... give me the incentives to move beyond the economics to make this actually happen.Did the closed cell insulation in this old house... cost me my arm and both legs! I am warm, but that 1,000 gallon oil tank sucks! Love my woodstove.%uFFFDIt seems our European friends are much more advanced to this. When we get over the fact that bigger is not necessarily better!!!



Because its not the driving force in the department. Way back when, what we now consider piece of junk computers were extremely expensive until they became industry and essential to the modern world. The fact is, green energy isn't valuable enough to people as a whole yet, it needs to become so in order to replace fossil fuels and other inefficient sources of energy. People as a whole need to make ecology more important than they currently are in order for better and cheaper technology becomes widespread for all. Unfortunately though, most giants in big business don't support the effort. Until that changes, it will be a slow struggle.

If each of us learn to sacrifice for each other and do our part, we can change the world, and make it a cleaner place to live.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
snark.. cannot recall the last time I saw that in a sentence... not since the SM-62 anyway.

well done Nea..
Member Since: Posts: Comments:

Viewing: 230 - 180

Page: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17Blog Index

Top of Page

About

Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.