A tranquil and record-warm Thanksgiving for much of the U.S.

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 5:35 PM GMT on November 23, 2012

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Celebrations of the Thanksgiving holiday in the United States in 2012 were aided by some of the most tranquil travel weather ever seen on what is America's busiest travel week. Unusually warm and precipitation-free conditions prevailed over almost the entire nation on Wednesday and Thursday, with many locations in the Midwest reporting their warmest Thanksgiving Day on record. At least three cities set records for their warmest temperature ever recorded so late in the year: Valentine, Nebraska (76° on Wednesday); Rochester, Minnesota (70° on Wednesday); and Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan (65° on Thursday.) While the quiet weather was a boon for travelers, the lack of rain in the Midwest allowed the nation's worst drought since 1954 to expand; the U.S. Drought Monitor reported that the area of the contiguous U.S. covered by moderate or greater drought expanded by 1% to 60% this week. This reversed a seven-week trend of slowly decreasing drought that began on September 25 and extended until November 13, when the area covered by drought declined from 65% to 59%. The latest ten-day forecasts from the GFS and ECMWF models show much below average chances of precipitation across more 90% of the U.S., including the drought regions. These dry conditions will allow the drought to expand over the next two weeks, and potentially cover 65% of the contiguous U.S. again by mid-December. The next chance for significant rains in excess of one inch in the Midwest will not occur until December 2, at the earliest. The lack of rain will potentially cause serious trouble for barge traffic on the Mississippi River by December 10, when the river may fall below the level of -5 feet at St. Louis needed to allow barges to not scrape bottom.


Figure 1. This week's U.S. Drought Monitor shows 60% of the contiguous U.S. was in moderate or greater drought.


Figure 2. Predicted 8-day precipitation amounts from the 06Z (1 am EST) November 23, 2012 run of the GFS model. For the 8-day period ending on Saturday, December 1, only the Northwest Coast, Central Gulf Coast, and portions of the Tennessee Valley are predicted to receive rains in excess of one inch. Image credit: NOAA.

Quiet in the Atlantic
There are no threat areas in the Atlantic to discuss today, and none of the reliable models is forecasting tropical cyclone development between now and the Friday, November 30 official end of hurricane season. I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of one more named storm forming in December in the middle Atlantic between Bermuda and Puerto Rico, but late-season storms forming in that location rarely affect land.

Have a great holiday weekend, everyone!

Jeff Masters

I Am Thankful (pasocorto)
I Am Thankful
HappyThanksgiving! (suzi46)
to all our wonderful WU Community..a frigid and frosty daybreak at our neighbor's pond..heading up to a sunny and beautiful 50 degree afternoon..:)
HappyThanksgiving!
there's always light.. (mieke)
there's always light..
()

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769. txjac
Quoting yoboi:




i think if i start a business take the risk and work hard i should be able to make all i can


I agree with that. Here's what makes me angry. Two people in my family - one working as a pipe fitter/plumber working in a union shop (community college two year degree) , the other a highly trained cardiac critical care nurse. Union working = 70.00 an hour in Ohio, cardiac critical care nurse = 56.00 and hour.

Now why does a person that works with welding rods think that he should out earn a highly ediucated nurse?

This is a big part of what needs to change to make USA once again successful
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting EstherD:


Temps in the 90's and dewpoints in the 70's most of the year? I would not want to live there. :)

Different strokes for different folks, as we used to say.



Touche
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
766. yoboi
Quoting RTSplayer:


Not really.

I'm not a communist.

It's easy enough for one to spit out the word "communist" invoking some scare of cold war era Russian, or China's oppression of Christians (yet allegedly Christian Republicans insist on selling everyone out to them).

Yet that's not me, and not by quite a long margin.

It's easy to poison the well by immediately associating ideas of social justice with "OMG, communism! Run for the hills." As though "Capitalism" has some sort of monopoly on morality within government or fiscal policies. One need only look at the history of the U.S. to realize that our non-communist ancestors committed not one, but two of the greatest human atrocities in recent world history: via the "Trail of Tears" and the butchering of Native Americans, and by being one of the last nations to abolish slavery. It seems our democracy committed worse crimes than nearly anyone since about 2000 years prior.


Yet, when a communist idea ends up making the most sense, hey, let's be a communist!

China's birth limitation is a very wise and moral thing, as it turns out, because it protects the children from the foolishness of their parents, who would otherwise have more children than they can reasonably support. If such a policy were implemented in other, such as many African nations, then within a generation much of their poverty and violence would be halted. Well, most of the "Smart" couples in the U.S. are already self-regulating to just one or two children, because they recognize the financial wisdom in this (or else they may just be selfish in some cases and want to save for their own desires, so they do the right thing for the wrong reasons in some cases,) but either way, that's better than doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, or doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons.

Gasp, *shock* the horror! People shouldn't have more children than is reasonable.

I say this a a middle child among three, but I had great aunts and uncles who were part of a "liter" of 12 to 16 kids, and they were all poor as dirt because of it. I consider it child abuse. I even consider the "nineteen kids and counting" people on television as child abuse, in spite of the fact they make more money. Their relationships with their children are impersonal. They are treated as numbers, almost like pets or livestock, but I suppose not quite.

Anyway, ten kids having ten kids is immoral, and perhaps we've reached the point in the world where three kids having three kids is immoral, because the world can't contain their needs.


I try to be a realist, although much of a futurist as well.

I just want realistic long term planning between people and government to solve problems permanently for the good of everyone, not just the short term profits of a few selfish individuals, and I recognize that what exists in the U.S. currently is by no means fair nor realistic.

You may say something snide, such as "life's not fair," well, it could certainly be a lot more fair than it is now anyway, it's within the power of this generation to make it so, perhaps more than any previous.


Our very declaration of independence declares that all men are created equal.

Well, perhaps that's not true, but the point is we ought to strive to have equal rights, and modern capitalism does not actually provide that at all.

What we have today is actually much more like Orwell's Animal Farm, where the pigs changed it to say, "All animals are created equal, but some or more equal than others!"

It was claimed that the book was a satire of communism, but I rather think he may well have been mocking the U.S. just as much.

there's little enough difference between corporate leaders today and monarchies of the past. They have too much power and too much of the wealth. The Republicans claim to be for small businesses, and yet most people considered "small businesses" make no more than the median income, if they are lucky to make that, meanwhile the corporate chains are everywhere. The same Wal-Mart and other shopping centers, and the same fast food chains and the same specialty chains all exist from one town to the next, right around the entire nation. As long as people continue to fall into this trap, it will only get worse.

It's not that centralization of knowledge and logistics is a bad thing, it's not conceptually. The problem is the people over the corporations bilk both their employees and their customers through unfair prices and unfair wages, while they make orders of magnitude more income than most.


How is that moral?

You can call me a communist if you like.

I'm not (fundamentally,) but I'd rather be a moral communist than an immoral capitalist.



most chain stores started as just one store and expanded thru hard work and taking risk some have done great but many have failed.....
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
765. yoboi
Quoting RTSplayer:


Never said that. You read something into my statement that wasn't there.


I think if people are worth more they should make more, but nobody is worth what corporate CEO's make, and I mean absolutely nobody, and least of all entertainers and athletes.

What is a fair standard of "Wealthy"?

Should the people at the top of the curve make 1000 times the median income, even when they could settle for 100 times and give most of their employees a couple thousand dollars to maybe 10,000 per year raise? Do you really believe that's fair?

You know how much money that is over an individual employee's career? That's far more than most people end up saving for retirement currently in their life time, even on the low-ball end, and if you got to the middle or high end it could pay for a house. In fact, it's a big part of the reason they don't have money to save for retirement currently, because they're being screwed by their employer(s).

Are executives and entertainers really worth a million, ten million or more per year? Or is that just a lie everyone has been brainwashed to believe?


Do you really believe Mark Zuckerberg "should" make as much money as he does? For what? Starting a failed advertising agency which masquerades as a gossip engine?

Do you really believe oil executives or automotive executives should make as much money as they do? Or even executives in financial corporations? After all, they too contributed enormously to the recession. How does a financial firm which was only paying one fourth of one percent on an IRA (but presumably should have been making ten times that in the stock market,) how did they go broke, and have nothing to show for it? Same for 401k investments. All those people's investments evaporated to nothing, without public warning, with no assets, not on paper or in material assets, to show for it?! I still have a strong suspicion much of the money was actually bilked away and hidden in foreign accounts or assets somewhere. Do you REALLY think they, or anyone, deserves the salary and benefits they receive?


It's absolutely ridiculous.

So at what point would you admit all of these people are severely over paid to everyone else's detriment?!




i think if i start a business take the risk and work hard i should be able to make all i can
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
764. whitewabit (Mod)
Quoting PensacolaDoug:



Barrow Alaska webcam.
I would not want to live there.


I have lived further north then that and its really not too bad ..
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting captainmark:
Your thought process is 100% communist. I bet you would look cute wearing one of those green caps that Castro wears.


Not really.

I'm not a communist.

It's easy enough for one to spit out the word "communist" invoking some scare of cold war era Russian, or China's oppression of Christians (yet allegedly Christian Republicans insist on selling everyone out to them).

Yet that's not me, and not by quite a long margin.

It's easy to poison the well by immediately associating ideas of social justice with "OMG, communism! Run for the hills." As though "Capitalism" has some sort of monopoly on morality within government or fiscal policies. One need only look at the history of the U.S. to realize that our non-communist ancestors committed not one, but two of the greatest human atrocities in recent world history: via the "Trail of Tears" and the butchering of Native Americans, and by being one of the last nations to abolish slavery. It seems our democracy committed worse crimes than nearly anyone since about 2000 years prior.


Yet, when a communist idea ends up making the most sense, hey, let's be a communist!

China's birth limitation is a very wise and moral thing, as it turns out, because it protects the children from the foolishness of their parents, who would otherwise have more children than they can reasonably support. If such a policy were implemented in other, such as many African nations, then within a generation much of their poverty and violence would be halted. Well, most of the "Smart" couples in the U.S. are already self-regulating to just one or two children, because they recognize the financial wisdom in this (or else they may just be selfish in some cases and want to save for their own desires, so they do the right thing for the wrong reasons in some cases,) but either way, that's better than doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, or doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons.

Gasp, *shock* the horror! People shouldn't have more children than is reasonable.

I say this a a middle child among three, but I had great aunts and uncles who were part of a "liter" of 12 to 16 kids, and they were all poor as dirt because of it. I consider it child abuse. I even consider the "nineteen kids and counting" people on television as child abuse, in spite of the fact they make more money. Their relationships with their children are impersonal. They are treated as numbers, almost like pets or livestock, but I suppose not quite.

Anyway, ten kids having ten kids is immoral, and perhaps we've reached the point in the world where three kids having three kids is immoral, because the world can't contain their needs.


I try to be a realist, although much of a futurist as well.

I just want realistic long term planning between people and government to solve problems permanently for the good of everyone, not just the short term profits of a few selfish individuals, and I recognize that what exists in the U.S. currently is by no means fair nor realistic.

You may say something snide, such as "life's not fair," well, it could certainly be a lot more fair than it is now anyway, it's within the power of this generation to make it so, perhaps more than any previous.


Our very declaration of independence declares that all men are created equal.

Well, perhaps that's not true, but the point is we ought to strive to have equal rights, and modern capitalism does not actually provide that at all.

What we have today is actually much more like Orwell's Animal Farm, where the pigs changed it to say, "All animals are created equal, but some or more equal than others!"

It was claimed that the book was a satire of communism, but I rather think he may well have been mocking the U.S. just as much.

there's little enough difference between corporate leaders today and monarchies of the past. They have too much power and too much of the wealth. The Republicans claim to be for small businesses, and yet most people considered "small businesses" make no more than the median income, if they are lucky to make that, meanwhile the corporate chains are everywhere. The same Wal-Mart and other shopping centers, and the same fast food chains and the same specialty chains all exist from one town to the next, right around the entire nation. As long as people continue to fall into this trap, it will only get worse.

It's not that centralization of knowledge and logistics is a bad thing, it's not conceptually. The problem is the people over the corporations bilk both their employees and their customers through unfair prices and unfair wages, while they make orders of magnitude more income than most.


How is that moral?

You can call me a communist if you like.

I'm not (fundamentally,) but I'd rather be a moral communist than an immoral capitalist.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting PensacolaDoug:



Barrow Alaska webcam.
I would not want to live there.


Temps in the 90's and dewpoints in the 70's most of the year? I would not want to live there. :)

Different strokes for different folks, as we used to say.
Member Since: November 10, 2009 Posts: 2 Comments: 190
Quoting PensacolaDoug:


I agree. Since when has the governmnet ever run anything efficiently?


This is a common fallacious argument. I could name a number of great government agencies like the CDC, NTSB, FCC, Federal Maritime Commission (FMC), etc, and you could name a bunch of poorly run ones just the same. Making a black and white argument about government doesn't work. Yes there are agencies with problems, but there are some shining examples of government efficiency.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:



Barrow Alaska webcam.
I would not want to live there.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Greetings from central Missouri. Long time lurker, first time poster.

The weather has been docile in the area for some time. I'm excited at the prospects of snow flurries here tomorrow before temperatures rebound into the 50's later in the week.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Dragod66:
I'm looking for a snow forecast for Wednesday and Thursday for Eastern Us/Canada... Anyone help me out?
Sure. Snow Flurry Felicia will approach the NYC area on Tuesday, immediately followed by Partly Cloudy and Blustery System Ignatious.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
757. HadesGodWyvern (Mod)
Japan Meteorological Agency
Tropical Cyclone Advisory #2
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 27
6:00 AM JST November 26 2012
=======================================

SUBJECT: Tropical Depression Near Marshall Islands

At 21:00 PM UTC, Tropical Depression (1004 hPa) located at 3.4N 156.7E has 10 minute sustained winds of 30 knots with gusts of 45 knots. The depression is reported as moving west slowly.

Dvorak Intensity: T2.0

Forecast and Intensity
=======================
24 HRS: 3.6N 155.0E - 35 knots (CAT 1/Tropical Storm) Marshall Island
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Here is the Prognostic Reasoning from JTWC for TD 26W.

WDPN31 PGTW 252100
MSGID/GENADMIN/NAVMARFCSTCEN PEARL HARBOR HI/JTWC//
SUBJ/PROGNOSTIC REASONING FOR TROPICAL DEPRESSION 26W WARNING NR 01//
RMKS/
1. FOR METEOROLOGISTS.
2. 12 HOUR SUMMARY AND ANALYSIS.
A. TROPICAL DEPRESSION (TD) 26W, LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 285 NM
SOUTHEAST OF CHUUK, HAS TRACKED WEST-NORTHWESTWARD AT 08 KNOTS OVER
THE PAST SIX HOURS. ANIMATED INFRARED SATELLITE IMAGERY DEPICTS A
CONSOLIDATING LOW-LEVEL CIRCULATION CENTER (LLCC) WITH IMPROVED DEEP
CONVECTIVE BANDING. A 251925Z SSMIS 37GHZ IMAGE ALSO SHOWS IMPROVED
CONVECTIVE BANDING; HOWEVER, THE DEEP CONVECTIVE BANDING IS
FRAGMENTED AND THE EXACT CENTER LOCATION IS DIFFICULT TO DISCERN.
THEREFORE, THERE IS POOR CONFIDENCE IN THE INITIAL POSITION. THE
INITIAL INTENSITY IS ASSESSED AT 25 KNOTS BASED ON THIS STRUCTURE AS
WELL AS DVORAK ESTIMATES OF 25 KNOTS FROM PGTW AND KNES. OVER THE
PAST 12 HOURS, THE UPPER-LEVEL ENVIRONMENT HAS IMPROVED
SIGNIFICANTLY AS AN UPPER-LEVEL ANTICYCLONE HAS FORMED OVER THE LLCC
WITH NEAR-RADIAL OUTFLOW AND WEAK VERTICAL WIND SHEAR. TD 26W
APPEARS TO BE TRACKING SLOWLY WEST-NORTHWESTWARD OR NORTHWESTWARD
ALONG THE SOUTHEAST PERIPHERY OF THE LOW- TO MID-LEVEL SUBTROPICAL
RIDGE (STR), WHICH IS FIRMLY ENTRENCHED SOUTH OF JAPAN.
3. FORECAST REASONING.
A. THIS IS THE INITIAL PROGNOSTIC REASONING AND SETS THE FORECAST
PHILOSOPHY.
B. TD 26W IS CURRENTLY TRACKING UNDER THE WEAK STEERING INFLUENCE
OF THE EASTERN PORTION OF THE STR BUT IS EXPECTED TO ACCELERATE AS
IT INTENSIFIES OVER THE NEXT 48 HOURS AND TRACKS WESTWARD UNDER THE
STR. DYNAMIC MODEL GUIDANCE IS LIMITED TO NOGAPS, GFS AND WBAR,
WHICH ARE IN RELATIVELY GOOD AGREEMENT. HOWEVER, THE ECMWF, GFDN,
EGRR AND JGSM TRACKERS ALL POORLY INITIALIZE THE CURRENT INTENSITY
OF THE SYSTEM AND WERE UNAVAILABLE. ALTHOUGH THERE IS LOW CONFIDENCE
IN THE EXACT FORECAST TRACK DUE TO UNCERTAINTY IN THE INITIAL
POSITION AND THE LACK OF DYNAMIC AIDS, THE DYNAMIC MODELS AND
ANALYSES ARE CONSISTENT IN DEPICTING A STRONG STR AND SIMILAR
SYNOPTIC STEERING PATTERN, THEREFORE, THE SYSTEM WILL BE A STRAIGHT-
RUNNER. TD 26W IS FORECAST TO INTENSIFY SLOWLY THROUGH TAU 36 AS THE
LLCC CONSOLIDATES BUT IS EXPECTED TO REACH TYPHOON STRENGTH BY TAU
72.
C. IN THE EXTENDED PERIOD, TD 26W WILL CONTINUE TRACKING WEST-
NORTHWESTWARD TOWARD YAP AND WILL INTENSIFY UNDER FAVORABLE
CONDITIONS TO A PEAK NEAR 90 KNOTS BY TAU 120. THE AVAILABLE DYNAMIC
AIDS ARE IN GOOD AGREEMENT AND SUPPORT THE JTWC FORECAST, WHICH IS
POSITIONED FASTER BUT CLOSE TO THE MULTI-MODEL CONSENSUS.//
NNNN
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14076
Quoting yoboi:




why do you think we should all make the same amount of money??? why do ya push that agenda????


Never said that. You read something into my statement that wasn't there.


I think if people are worth more they should make more, but nobody is worth what corporate CEO's make, and I mean absolutely nobody, and least of all entertainers and athletes.

What is a fair standard of "Wealthy"?

Should the people at the top of the curve make 1000 times the median income, even when they could settle for 100 times and give most of their employees a couple thousand dollars to maybe 10,000 per year raise? Do you really believe that's fair?

You know how much money that is over an individual employee's career? That's far more than most people end up saving for retirement currently in their life time, even on the low-ball end, and if you got to the middle or high end it could pay for a house. In fact, it's a big part of the reason they don't have money to save for retirement currently, because they're being screwed by their employer(s).

Are executives and entertainers really worth a million, ten million or more per year? Or is that just a lie everyone has been brainwashed to believe?


Do you really believe Mark Zuckerberg "should" make as much money as he does? For what? Starting a failed advertising agency which masquerades as a gossip engine?

Do you really believe oil executives or automotive executives should make as much money as they do? Or even executives in financial corporations? After all, they too contributed enormously to the recession. How does a financial firm which was only paying one fourth of one percent on an IRA (but presumably should have been making ten times that in the stock market,) how did they go broke, and have nothing to show for it? Same for 401k investments. All those people's investments evaporated to nothing, without public warning, with no assets, not on paper or in material assets, to show for it?! I still have a strong suspicion much of the money was actually bilked away and hidden in foreign accounts or assets somewhere. Do you REALLY think they, or anyone, deserves the salary and benefits they receive?


It's absolutely ridiculous.

So at what point would you admit all of these people are severely over paid to everyone else's detriment?!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
754. whitewabit (Mod)
Quoting Tazmanian:




this is from the 18z so far


its forcasting up too 18" of rain




That's a lot of rain Taz ..
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
753. yoboi
Quoting Tazmanian:



no



that's alot of rain for not being in elnino...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting yoboi:



elnino??



no
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
751. yoboi
Quoting Tazmanian:




this is from the 18z so far


its forcasting up too 18" of rain





elnino??
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
750. beell
If you took a CEO who made exactly the $13 million per year average (admittedly itself a slightly misleading statistic,) and take away $10 million of his annual salary and divide it up among 1,000 employees, they could all have a $10,000 per year wage/salary increase to the people who actually MAKE the products and services, WITHOUT changing anything else in the company...and that's just by cutting ONE person's over-paid salary! The CEO would STILL be making $3 million per year, or 67 times the average U.S. household annual income!!

I think you have a very naive view of just how many people are employed by Fortune 50 companies.
Member Since: September 11, 2007 Posts: 142 Comments: 16295
Quoting whitewabit:


You going to get snow Taz ??




this is from the 18z so far


its forcasting up too 18" of rain


Member Since: Posts: Comments:
748. yoboi
Quoting RTSplayer:



Wow you don't pay attention do you?

The government told you why the government did what it did.

The industries are so large and so vital to our infrastructure and what was once our labor markets so that, had the government allowed them to fail, it would have destroyed even bigger segments of the economy. If you laid off all those automotive industry workers, how many more homes would be foreclosed? How many more small businesses such as restaurants and convenience stores in the surrounding area would go broke? They'd all lose their businesses and investments through no fault of their own. The nearest big hospital would go broke and close down because everyone would move away, and on and on down the entire chain.

If the American automotive industries failed then that much more of a monopoly would be had by foreign companies. Else they'd be divided up on the stock market by some combination of foreigners, banks (most of which are actually owned in a majority share by foreigners,) or whatever other agency happens to have the funds. Either way it wouldn't be a good thing.

Pay attention.



ford did not take the bail out why is ford doing better?????
Member Since: Posts: Comments:

BULLETIN
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 26W ADVISORY NUMBER 1
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TIYAN GU WP262012
800 AM CHST MON NOV 26 2012

...TROPICAL DEPRESSION 26W FORMS SOUTH-SOUTHWEST OF POHNPEI...

A TROPICAL STORM WATCH IS NOW IN EFFECT FOR NUKUORO IN POHNPEI STATE
AND LUKUNOR IN CHUUK STATE.

AT 700 AM CHST...2100Z...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL DEPRESSION 26W WAS
LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 3.7 DEGREES NORTH AND LONGITUDE 156.8 DEGREES
EAST.

THIS IS ABOUT 240 MILES SOUTH-SOUTHWEST OF POHNPEI
235 MILES SOUTHEAST OF LUKUNOR
125 MILES EAST OF NUKUORO.

TROPICAL DEPRESSION 26W IS MOVING WEST-NORTHWEST AT 9 MPH. THIS
GENERAL MOVEMENT IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE TODAY THROUGH TUESDAY.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE 30 MPH. TROPICAL DEPRESSION 26W IS
EXPECTED TO INTENSIFY SLOWLY...AND MAY BECOME A TROPICAL STORM EARLY
TUESDAY MORNING.

REPEATING THE 700 AM POSITION...3.7 DEGREES NORTH LATITUDE AND
156.8 DEGREES EAST LONGITUDE MOVING WEST-NORTHWEST AT 9 MPH WITH
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS OF 30 MPH.

AN INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL WEATHER
SERVICE AT 11 AM CHST...FOLLOWED BY THE NEXT SCHEDULED ADVISORY AT
2 PM THIS AFTERNOON.

$$

MIDDLEBROOKE

Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14076
746. whitewabit (Mod)
Quoting Tazmanian:
the 18z gfs has DOOM for CA


You going to get snow Taz ??
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
the 18z gfs has DOOM for CA
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting yoboi:


if it's not a gov problem why did the gov step in???



Wow you don't pay attention do you?

The government told you why the government did what it did.

The industries are so large and so vital to our infrastructure and what was once our labor markets so that, had the government allowed them to fail, it would have destroyed even bigger segments of the economy. If you laid off all those automotive industry workers, how many more homes would be foreclosed? How many more small businesses such as restaurants and convenience stores in the surrounding area would go broke? They'd all lose their businesses and investments through no fault of their own. The nearest big hospital would go broke and close down because everyone would move away, and on and on down the entire chain.

If the American automotive industries failed then that much more of a monopoly would be had by foreign companies. Else they'd be divided up on the stock market by some combination of foreigners, banks (most of which are actually owned in a majority share by foreigners,) or whatever other agency happens to have the funds. Either way it wouldn't be a good thing.

Pay attention.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting yoboi:



take take take is all you say....what ever happened with earn earn earn.....



He keeps mentioning me too.

RT? You can stop now.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
742. yoboi
Quoting LargoFl:
yes in part thats true,but if he had not made that happen,how many people are emplyed by the affected car companies..think about that for a minute..millions i would assume..now add to that..all the car part suppliers..more millions out of work..now think about the people who give the suppliers their raw materials//more millions out of work...........so what happens then?..economic collapse like we have never seen before in this country..oh the rich..they will be ok ..but everyone on here now?..poof we go....I dont really care for Obama..but i understand why he did what he did



ford did not take the bail out and look what company is doing better now FORD.....
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
741. yoboi
Quoting RTSplayer:


You are exactly right.

The Republicans want to hide these facts from people, but the relative profits of the wealthy compared to the average is currently at least 10 times greater than historical norms...yet they still complain about their tax rate, even though the tax rate on the wealthy is actually the lowest it's been in about 80 years!


Just yesterday, I even caught a LIBERAL news media agency accidentally making a factual statement in a way which could accidentally mislead an audience to a pro-ultra-conservative stance.

They claimed that the "average taxes" of Americans would go up by $3,500, which is actually a "true" statement as given, but gives a totally false impression to the listener.

In reality, the average American will see no tax increase at all, as most of the money in this "average" comes from the wealthy, BUT the extra amount the wealthy would be paying is an insignificant blip compared to what they actually make in income.


If you took a CEO who made exactly the $13 million per year average (admittedly itself a slightly misleading statistic,) and take away $10 million of his annual salary and divide it up among 1,000 employees, they could all have a $10,000 per year wage/salary increase to the people who actually MAKE the products and services, WITHOUT changing anything else in the company...and that's just by cutting ONE person's over-paid salary! The CEO would STILL be making $3 million per year, or 67 times the average U.S. household annual income!!


I doubt Pensacola Doug would bother reading this, but I wonder if he's ever bothered to even think about this?

Does anyone think normal people benefit from the existing system more than they would under a system more like what I proposed above? Really?



take take take is all you say....what ever happened with earn earn earn.....
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting yoboi:



they stay in business with an obama bail out....
yes in part thats true,but if he had not made that happen,how many people are emplyed by the affected car companies..think about that for a minute..millions i would assume..now add to that..all the car part suppliers..more millions out of work..now think about the people who give the suppliers their raw materials//more millions out of work...........so what happens then?..economic collapse like we have never seen before in this country..oh the rich..they will be ok ..but everyone on here now?..poof we go....I dont really care for Obama..but i understand why he did what he did
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting LargoFl:
If corp america only understood..its the average working person,by the sheer numbers of them..that are the ones who BUY all their products and services..and that being said..i cannot fathom..WHY..they insist on paying dirt cheap wages to them..HELLO corp america..PAY the workers GOOD and your products will be sold..forget that stiff at the top of the ladder..HE/SHE is only as good as the products fly off the selves..IF the working american can hardly pay his/her own bills..HOW do you expect them..to BUY your products?....................ive said this so many times over my lifetime..it falls on deaf ears........you know how corp america deals with this?..yes they gave the workers more in their paychecks..THEN..doubled the prices of their goods they sell...........back to square one...the worker cannot afford to buy the products these companies need to sell


You are exactly right.

The Republicans want to hide these facts from people, but the relative profits of the wealthy compared to the average is currently at least 10 times greater than historical norms...yet they still complain about their tax rate, even though the tax rate on the wealthy is actually the lowest it's been in about 80 years!


Just yesterday, I even caught a LIBERAL news media agency accidentally making a factual statement in a way which could accidentally mislead an audience to a pro-ultra-conservative stance.

They claimed that the "average taxes" of Americans would go up by $3,500, which is actually a "true" statement as given, but gives a totally false impression to the listener.

In reality, the average American will see no tax increase at all, as most of the money in this "average" comes from the wealthy, BUT the extra amount the wealthy would be paying is an insignificant blip compared to what they actually make in income.


If you took a CEO who made exactly the $13 million per year average (admittedly itself a slightly misleading statistic,) and take away $10 million of his annual salary and divide it up among 1,000 employees, they could all have a $10,000 per year wage/salary increase to the people who actually MAKE the products and services, WITHOUT changing anything else in the company...and that's just by cutting ONE person's over-paid salary! The CEO would STILL be making $3 million per year, or 67 times the average U.S. household annual income!!


I doubt Pensacola Doug would bother reading this, but I wonder if he's ever bothered to even think about this?

Does anyone think normal people benefit from the existing system more than they would under a system more like what I proposed above? Really?
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Quoting RTSplayer:


Well, friend, if the corporations had done a good job at their chosen fields, they would never have gone bankrupt in the first place.

This actually all ties into what I was saying earlier.

1, Overpaid CEO (makes more money than 1000 employees combined).

Gee, if they paid these fools what they were really worth instead of 10 or 100 times as much, they probably would save half their losses right there, before they even change anything else.

2, Make a product that's actually worth buying. Actually, the problem here is caused by the PEOPLE in this case, because idiot Americans prefer to buy bigger and bigger cars and trucks that can't even fit in a parking space, which is one factor that drove prices up so high and fuel efficiency down so low.

Another example of how Capitalism fails, particularly "consumer driven" capitalism, because you put decision making in the hands of the average joe idiot, instead of somebody that has a brain and at least uses half of it (which would be far above average apparently).

Under consumerism we do what the idiots want. Idiots want to watch professional wrestling 4 or 5 nights per week. Idiots want to drive over-sized vehicles and pay twice as much for gasoline to get to and from work. Idiots plan for this year, and forget 5, 10, or 20 years out. Idiots pay actors and athletes and coaches ten to fifty times the President's salary, and 100 times the income of an engineer or doctor. Idiots want no gun laws (for some reason,) so that every psychotic school boy can unload clips of 30-something rouands on an innocent crowd, and refuse to admit even after the fact that most of the handguns that are legal right now should be banned.

Do you really, REALLY want capitalistic corporations, or the average joe consumer (whether individually or collectively,) making all the decisions?! Really?!

3, Maybe if the "American" auto companies didn't outsource so much of the labor and manufacturing to companies over seas the unemployment rate in the U.S. would be lower, resulting in more people able to have money to buy more cars. Same could be said for much of our tech industry.

Actually, the Chinese have one-upped the U.S. and are fully automating many of their tech production facilities, but that's another matter. Point is our companies sold out our technology to other nations, and then those nations' companies are annihilating the labor market. They will have a monopoly on technology, even though it was invented in the U.S. in many cases!

Makes no sense does it? The "Good guy" Capitalists sold all the technology to the "evil" communists because they could do the job of production better, and now the "evil" communists figured out how to do the job so well they don't even need labor at all any more; defeating the whole purpose of the U.S. outsourcing the labor, as had the lazy U.S. capitalistic corporations developed their own intelligent production process they'd still be doing it all here.


Do you need some more instruction on current events in the tech industry or automotive industries? Certainly, we all do.

You're not understanding the scale of the U.S. problem. The unemployment rate is so high because the CAPITALISTS outsourced all the labor, and then the foreign governments replaced all the labor with robots...invented largely in the U.S. and themselves outsourced...by the capitalists.

The CEO doesn't give a damn about you, because he makes more money this way, but normal people don't and cannot, and they're lucky if they even have a job that pays the cost to get back to work right now.

If they'd done what was right for the civilization, rather than what was most profitable to themselves, most of this problem wouldn't exist.
How's Venezuela working out? LOL
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737. yoboi
Quoting LargoFl:
case in point..in the mid 60's a brand new car cost what? $3,500...now...the average car costs what..$30,000?...so in all these years..did the average workers salary go up to match that increase?..i dare say NOT....so HOW do these companies expect to stay in business?



they stay in business with an obama bail out....
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736. whitewabit (Mod)
Back to the weather .. 26W

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
735. yoboi
Quoting RTSplayer:


Well, friend, if the corporations had done a good job at their chosen fields, they would never have gone bankrupt in the first place.

This actually all ties into what I was saying earlier.

1, Overpaid CEO (makes more money than 1000 employees combined).

Gee, if they paid these fools what they were really worth instead of 10 or 100 times as much, they probably would save half their losses right there, before they even change anything else.

2, Make a product that's actually worth buying. Actually, the problem here is caused by the PEOPLE in this case, because idiot Americans prefer to buy bigger and bigger cars and trucks that can't even fit in a parking space, which is one factor that drove prices up so high and fuel efficiency down so low.

Another example of how Capitalism fails, particularly "consumer driven" capitalism, because you put decision making in the hands of the average joe idiot, instead of somebody that has a brain and at least uses half of it (which would be far above average apparently).

Under consumerism we do what the idiots want. Idiots want to watch professional wrestling 4 or 5 nights per week. Idiots want to drive over-sized vehicles and pay twice as much for gasoline to get to and from work. Idiots plan for this year, and forget 5, 10, or 20 years out. Idiots pay actors and athletes and coaches ten to fifty times the President's salary, and 100 times the income of an engineer or doctor. Idiots want no gun laws (for some reason,) so that every psychotic school boy can unload clips of 30-something rouands on an innocent crowd, and refuse to admit even after the fact that most of the handguns that are legal right now should be banned.

Do you really, REALLY want capitalistic corporations, or the average joe consumer (whether individually or collectively,) making all the decisions?! Really?!

3, Maybe if the "American" auto companies didn't outsource so much of the labor and manufacturing to companies over seas the unemployment rate in the U.S. would be lower, resulting in more people able to have money to buy more cars. Same could be said for much of our tech industry.

Actually, the Chinese have one-upped the U.S. and are fully automating many of their tech production facilities, but that's another matter. Point is our companies sold out our technology to other nations, and then those nations' companies are annihilating the labor market. They will have a monopoly on technology, even though it was invented in the U.S. in many cases!

Makes no sense does it? The "Good guy" Capitalists sold all the technology to the "evil" communists because they could do the job of production better, and now the "evil" communists figured out how to do the job so well they don't even need labor at all any more; defeating the whole purpose of the U.S. outsourcing the labor, as had the lazy U.S. capitalistic corporations developed their own intelligent production process they'd still be doing it all here.


Do you need some more instruction on current events in the tech industry or automotive industries? Certainly, we all do.

You're not understanding the scale of the U.S. problem. The unemployment rate is so high because the CAPITALISTS outsourced all the labor, and then the foreign governments replaced all the labor with robots...invented largely in the U.S. and themselves outsourced...by the capitalists.

The CEO doesn't give a damn about you, because he makes more money this way, but normal people don't and cannot, and they're lucky if they even have a job that pays the cost to get back to work right now.

If they'd done what was right for the civilization, rather than what was most profitable to themselves, most of this problem wouldn't exist.




why do you think we should all make the same amount of money??? why do ya push that agenda????
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Your thought process is 100% communist. I bet you would look cute wearing one of those green caps that Castro wears.
Quoting RTSplayer:


Well, friend, if the corporations had done a good job at their chosen fields, they would never have gone bankrupt in the first place.

This actually all ties into what I was saying earlier.

1, Overpaid CEO (makes more money than 1000 employees combined).

Gee, if they paid these fools what they were really worth instead of 10 or 100 times as much, they probably would save half their losses right there, before they even change anything else.

2, Make a product that's actually worth buying. Actually, the problem here is caused by the PEOPLE in this case, because idiot Americans prefer to buy bigger and bigger cars and trucks that can't even fit in a parking space, which is one factor that drove prices up so high and fuel efficiency down so low.

Another example of how Capitalism fails, particularly "consumer driven" capitalism, because you put decision making in the hands of the average joe idiot, instead of somebody that has a brain and at least uses half of it (which would be far above average apparently).

Under consumerism we do what the idiots want. Idiots want to watch professional wrestling 4 or 5 nights per week. Idiots want to drive over-sized vehicles and pay twice as much for gasoline to get to and from work. Idiots plan for this year, and forget 5, 10, or 20 years out. Idiots pay actors and athletes and coaches ten to fifty times the President's salary, and 100 times the income of an engineer or doctor. Idiots want no gun laws (for some reason,) so that every psychotic school boy can unload clips of 30-something rouands on an innocent crowd, and refuse to admit even after the fact that most of the handguns that are legal right now should be banned.

Do you really, REALLY want capitalistic corporations, or the average joe consumer (whether individually or collectively,) making all the decisions?! Really?!

3, Maybe if the "American" auto companies didn't outsource so much of the labor and manufacturing to companies over seas the unemployment rate in the U.S. would be lower, resulting in more people able to have money to buy more cars. Same could be said for much of our tech industry.

Actually, the Chinese have one-upped the U.S. and are fully automating many of their tech production facilities, but that's another matter. Point is our companies sold out our technology to other nations, and then those nations' companies are annihilating the labor market. They will have a monopoly on technology, even though it was invented in the U.S. in many cases!

Makes no sense does it? The "Good guy" Capitalists sold all the technology to the "evil" communists because they could do the job of production better, and now the "evil" communists figured out how to do the job so well they don't even need labor at all any more; defeating the whole purpose of the U.S. outsourcing the labor, as had the lazy U.S. capitalistic corporations developed their own intelligent production process they'd still be doing it all here.


Do you need some more instruction on current events in the tech industry or automotive industries? Certainly, we all do.

You're not understanding the scale of the U.S. problem. The unemployment rate is so high because the CAPITALISTS outsourced all the labor, and then the foreign governments replaced all the labor with robots...invented largely in the U.S. and themselves outsourced...by the capitalists.

The CEO doesn't give a damn about you, because he makes more money this way, but normal people don't and cannot, and they're lucky if they even have a job that pays the cost to get back to work right now.

If they'd done what was right for the civilization, rather than what was most profitable to themselves, most of this problem wouldn't exist.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
case in point..in the mid 60's a brand new car cost what? $3,500...now...the average car costs what..$30,000?...so in all these years..did the average workers salary go up to match that increase?..i dare say NOT....so HOW do these companies expect to stay in business?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
732. yoboi
Quoting Bielle:


It would have been zero in a bankruptcy. Shareholder value is a corporate problem, not a government one.


if it's not a gov problem why did the gov step in???
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Quoting PensacolaDoug:




This had been a fairly civil debate up until you refer to me as ignorant and selfish.

I've been called worse things by better people.
See ya.




Being ignorant can be fixed.

Most of this is pretty obvious if you actually bother to check the facts about it, and change your way of thinking to long term management and productivity, rather than what appears to be best for yourself in a one to five year period.

Ignoring anyone who disagrees with you, or confronts you with facts you don't like, won't change those facts.


And yes, the primary reason people oppose doing anything about energy issues boils down to selfishness.

NIMBY - too vain/selfish.
Costs too much (short term) - too selfish.
Doesn't make me richer (CEO) - Too selfish

Ironically, if done properly, Wind and solar cost an order of magnitude less over the long term than does coal power, because you never need to buy fuel, you only need to buy a turbine and land, which coal power also needs to buy anyway.


In fact, your own (perceived) self interest "Doesn't work for me," is what you cited in your post. You didn't give a rational or logical argument for opposing a more holistic alternative energy program!



===

so what would your plan be, PensacolaDoug?

I mean, besides ignoring it and waiting for your grand-kids to fix it?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
If corp america only understood..its the average working person,by the sheer numbers of them..that are the ones who BUY all their products and services..and that being said..i cannot fathom..WHY..they insist on paying dirt cheap wages to them..HELLO corp america..PAY the workers GOOD and your products will be sold..forget that stiff at the top of the ladder..HE/SHE is only as good as the products fly off the selves..IF the working american can hardly pay his/her own bills..HOW do you expect them..to BUY your products?....................ive said this so many times over my lifetime..it falls on deaf ears........you know how corp america deals with this?..yes they gave the workers more in their paychecks..THEN..doubled the prices of their goods they sell...........back to square one...the worker cannot afford to buy the products these companies need to sell
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting yoboi:



tell that to the gm sharholders whose stock is still at half what it use to be


Well, friend, if the corporations had done a good job at their chosen fields, they would never have gone bankrupt in the first place.

This actually all ties into what I was saying earlier.

1, Overpaid CEO (makes more money than 1000 employees combined).

Gee, if they paid these fools what they were really worth instead of 10 or 100 times as much, they probably would save half their losses right there, before they even change anything else.

2, Make a product that's actually worth buying. Actually, the problem here is caused by the PEOPLE in this case, because idiot Americans prefer to buy bigger and bigger cars and trucks that can't even fit in a parking space, which is one factor that drove prices up so high and fuel efficiency down so low.

Another example of how Capitalism fails, particularly "consumer driven" capitalism, because you put decision making in the hands of the average joe idiot, instead of somebody that has a brain and at least uses half of it (which would be far above average apparently).

Under consumerism we do what the idiots want. Idiots want to watch professional wrestling 4 or 5 nights per week. Idiots want to drive over-sized vehicles and pay twice as much for gasoline to get to and from work. Idiots plan for this year, and forget 5, 10, or 20 years out. Idiots pay actors and athletes and coaches ten to fifty times the President's salary, and 100 times the income of an engineer or doctor. Idiots want no gun laws (for some reason,) so that every psychotic school boy can unload clips of 30-something rouands on an innocent crowd, and refuse to admit even after the fact that most of the handguns that are legal right now should be banned.

Do you really, REALLY want capitalistic corporations, or the average joe consumer (whether individually or collectively,) making all the decisions?! Really?!

3, Maybe if the "American" auto companies didn't outsource so much of the labor and manufacturing to companies over seas the unemployment rate in the U.S. would be lower, resulting in more people able to have money to buy more cars. Same could be said for much of our tech industry.

Actually, the Chinese have one-upped the U.S. and are fully automating many of their tech production facilities, but that's another matter. Point is our companies sold out our technology to other nations, and then those nations' companies are annihilating the labor market. They will have a monopoly on technology, even though it was invented in the U.S. in many cases!

Makes no sense does it? The "Good guy" Capitalists sold all the technology to the "evil" communists because they could do the job of production better, and now the "evil" communists figured out how to do the job so well they don't even need labor at all any more; defeating the whole purpose of the U.S. outsourcing the labor, as had the lazy U.S. capitalistic corporations developed their own intelligent production process they'd still be doing it all here.


Do you need some more instruction on current events in the tech industry or automotive industries? Certainly, we all do.

You're not understanding the scale of the U.S. problem. The unemployment rate is so high because the CAPITALISTS outsourced all the labor, and then the foreign governments replaced all the labor with robots...invented largely in the U.S. and themselves outsourced...by the capitalists.

The CEO doesn't give a damn about you, because he makes more money this way, but normal people don't and cannot, and they're lucky if they even have a job that pays the cost to get back to work right now.

If they'd done what was right for the civilization, rather than what was most profitable to themselves, most of this problem wouldn't exist.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting RTSplayer:


So what?

You're one person among 7 billion and rising.


You make my point for me.

It's all about you, you, you, because of your selfish capitalistic ideology.


Your world view doesn't work for anyone in the long term, and even in the short term only works for about 1% or so, of which you probably are not a member, but you're too ignorant to realize.




This had been a fairly civil debate up until you refer to me as ignorant and selfish.

I've been called worse things by better people.
See ya.


Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Who wants to talk about new TD 26W at WPAC? Here is JTWC first warning:

WTPN31 PGTW 252100
MSGID/GENADMIN/JOINT TYPHOON WRNCEN PEARL HARBOR HI//
SUBJ/TROPICAL CYCLONE WARNING//
REF/A/MSG/JOINT TYPHOON WRNCEN PEARL HARBOR HI/251651NOV2012//
AMPN/REF A IS A TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION ALERT.//
RMKS/
1. TROPICAL DEPRESSION 26W (TWENTY-SIX) WARNING NR 001
01 ACTIVE TROPICAL CYCLONE IN NORTHWESTPAC
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS BASED ON ONE-MINUTE AVERAGE
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
---
WARNING POSITION:
251800Z --- NEAR 3.6N 157.0E
MOVEMENT PAST SIX HOURS - 295 DEGREES AT 08 KTS
POSITION ACCURATE TO WITHIN 060 NM
POSITION BASED ON CENTER LOCATED BY SATELLITE
PRESENT WIND DISTRIBUTION:
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 025 KT, GUSTS 035 KT
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
REPEAT POSIT: 3.6N 157.0E
---
FORECASTS:
12 HRS, VALID AT:
260600Z --- 4.2N 156.3E
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 030 KT, GUSTS 040 KT
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
VECTOR TO 24 HR POSIT: 295 DEG/ 06 KTS
---
24 HRS, VALID AT:
261800Z --- 4.7N 155.3E
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 035 KT, GUSTS 045 KT
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
VECTOR TO 36 HR POSIT: 290 DEG/ 05 KTS
---
36 HRS, VALID AT:
270600Z --- 5.1N 154.3E
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 040 KT, GUSTS 050 KT
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
RADIUS OF 034 KT WINDS - 055 NM NORTHEAST QUADRANT
050 NM SOUTHEAST QUADRANT
050 NM SOUTHWEST QUADRANT
055 NM NORTHWEST QUADRANT
VECTOR TO 48 HR POSIT: 285 DEG/ 08 KTS
---
EXTENDED OUTLOOK:
48 HRS, VALID AT:
271800Z --- 5.5N 152.8E
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 050 KT, GUSTS 065 KT
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
RADIUS OF 034 KT WINDS - 065 NM NORTHEAST QUADRANT
055 NM SOUTHEAST QUADRANT
055 NM SOUTHWEST QUADRANT
065 NM NORTHWEST QUADRANT
VECTOR TO 72 HR POSIT: 285 DEG/ 09 KTS
---
72 HRS, VALID AT:
281800Z --- 6.3N 149.3E
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 065 KT, GUSTS 080 KT
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
RADIUS OF 050 KT WINDS - 045 NM NORTHEAST QUADRANT
045 NM SOUTHEAST QUADRANT
045 NM SOUTHWEST QUADRANT
045 NM NORTHWEST QUADRANT
RADIUS OF 034 KT WINDS - 090 NM NORTHEAST QUADRANT
085 NM SOUTHEAST QUADRANT
085 NM SOUTHWEST QUADRANT
090 NM NORTHWEST QUADRANT
VECTOR TO 96 HR POSIT: 285 DEG/ 12 KTS
---
LONG RANGE OUTLOOK:
---
96 HRS, VALID AT:
291800Z --- 7.4N 144.4E
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 080 KT, GUSTS 100 KT
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
VECTOR TO 120 HR POSIT: 285 DEG/ 12 KTS
---
120 HRS, VALID AT:
301800Z --- 8.5N 139.8E
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 090 KT, GUSTS 110 KT
WIND RADII VALID OVER OPEN WATER ONLY
---
REMARKS:
252100Z POSITION NEAR 3.7N 156.8E.
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 26W, LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 285 NM SOUTHEAST
OF CHUUK, HAS TRACKED WEST-NORTHWESTWARD AT 08 KNOTS OVER THE
PAST SIX HOURS. THIS WARNING SUPERSEDES AND CANCELS REF A, JOINT
TYPHOON WRNCEN PEARL HARBOR HI 251651Z NOV 12 TROPICAL CYCLONE
FORMATION ALERT (WTPN21 PGTW 251700). MAXIMUM SIGNIFICANT WAVE
HEIGHT AT 251800Z IS 10 FEET. NEXT WARNINGS AT 260300Z, 260900Z,
261500Z AND 262100Z.//
NNNN

Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14076
Quoting Bielle:
Having been entirely off-topic all day, I apologize and promise to stay out of non-weather/climate discussions.



The discussion we're having actually IS about climate. You just have to follow the whole thing to see why.

Climate and energy are very much corporate, political, and governmental issues.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Having been entirely off-topic all day, I apologize and promise to stay out of non-weather/climate discussions.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
What do you think backs up "laws"?


Generally force and the fear of consequences, primarily because humans are not fundamentally moral creatures, but that's for another discussion.

I don't know what you claim to believe religiously or spiritually, but if you are a self-professed conservative in the U.S., you probably claim to be Christian. The rule of law, through force when necessary, is in fact a Biblical doctrine. (See Romans 13). I say "claim to be" because in the present time most of them in fact do make such a claim, but keep few, if any, of the teachings they claim to believe.

anyway...

Your unwillingness to to see that the kind of power you would give to a select few would one day be turned on you.


A "Select few" already has that much power. You only reveal your own ignorance.

The U.S. government could blow you and your family to hell and back right now, and just say you were a terrorist, and nobody would even question it.

Yet they have not done that. Why? Maybe the gov'ment ain't so bad for us after all.

Any corporation who wanted to could plant something on you or a family member and frame you for a crime, or a bank could call your employer (of whom they probably own a majority share,) have you fired so they can force foreclosure on your house a few months later.


At least I get to vote for who's in the Senate and the House of Representatives.

I don't get a vote for who runs all the energy companies.

So which should I fear more?!

The one I have no control over at all, or the one I at least get a vote every few years?!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
GM and Chrysler went through bankruptcy court, the government did not save the auto industry, the government just changed the outcome for favored parties...the government chose to throw out over 200 years of civil law that protected secured creditors in favor of entities that had no standing in the bankruptcy hearings, ..and the stock would be no worse off today possibly better...but the law would have been followed...and GM still owes the US taxpayer Billions.....
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Quoting PensacolaDoug:
As always this is pointless.

Your "world view" just doesn't work for me.


Have a nice eve. I'm done with this for now.


So what?

You're one person among 7 billion and rising.


You make my point for me.

It's all about you, you, you, because of your selfish capitalistic ideology.


Your world view doesn't work for anyone in the long term, and even in the short term only works for about 1% or so, of which you probably are not a member, but you're too ignorant to realize.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
CPC continuing to expect warmth for nearly the entire US, with Alaska being the major exception:



8-14 day is similar, just not as extreme in the colors:

Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 82 Comments: 7643
JTWC joins JMA in upgrading 91W to Tropical Depression 26W:



Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14076
719. HadesGodWyvern (Mod)
Japan Meteorological Agency
Tropical Cyclone Advisory #1
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 27
3:00 AM JST November 26 2012
=======================================

SUBJECT: Tropical Depression Near Marshall Islands

At 18:00 PM UTC, Tropical Depression (1004 hPa) located at 3.4N 156.9E has 10 minute sustained winds of 30 knots with gusts of 45 knots. The depression is reported as moving west northwest slowly.

Dvorak Intensity: T2.0

Forecast and Intensity
=======================
24 HRS: 3.6N 155.1E - 35 knots (CAT 1/Tropical Storm) Marshall Island
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.