Hurricane Sandy's huge size: freak of nature or climate change?

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 1:10 PM GMT on November 13, 2012

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Hurricane Sandy was truly astounding in its size and power. At its peak size, twenty hours before landfall, Sandy had tropical storm-force winds that covered an area nearly one-fifth the area of the contiguous United States. Since detailed records of hurricane size began in 1988, only one tropical storm (Olga of 2001) has had a larger area of tropical storm-force winds, and no hurricanes has. Sandy's area of ocean with twelve-foot seas peaked at 1.4 million square miles--nearly one-half the area of the contiguous United States, or 1% of Earth's total ocean area. Most incredibly, ten hours before landfall (9:30 am EDT October 30), the total energy of Sandy's winds of tropical storm-force and higher peaked at 329 terajoules--the highest value for any Atlantic hurricane since at least 1969. This is 2.7 times higher than Katrina's peak energy, and is equivalent to five Hiroshima-sized atomic bombs. At landfall, Sandy's tropical storm-force winds spanned 943 miles of the the U.S. coast. No hurricane on record has been wider; the previous record holder was Hurricane Igor of 2010, which was 863 miles in diameter. Sandy's huge size prompted high wind warnings to be posted from Chicago to Eastern Maine, and from Michigan's Upper Peninsula to Florida's Lake Okeechobee--an area home to 120 million people. Sandy's winds simultaneously caused damage to buildings on the shores of Lake Michigan at Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore, and toppled power lines in Nova Scotia, Canada--locations 1200 miles apart!

Largest Atlantic tropical cyclones for area covered by tropical storm-force winds:

Olga, 2001: 780,000 square miles
Sandy, 2012: 560,000 square miles
Lili, 1996: 550,000 square miles
Igor, 2010: 550,000 square miles
Karl, 2004: 430,000 square miles



Figure 1. Hurricane Sandy’s winds (top), on October 28, 2012, when Sandy was a Category 1 hurricane with top winds of 75 mph (this ocean surface wind data is from a radar scatterometer on the Indian Space Research Organization’s (ISRO) Oceansat-2.) Hurricane Katrina’s winds (bottom) on August 28, 2005, when Katrina was a Category 5 hurricane with top winds of 175 mph (data taken by a radar scatterometer on NASA’s defunct QuickSCAT satellite.) In both maps, wind speeds above 65 kilometers (40 miles) per hour are yellow; above 80 kph (50 mph) are orange; and above 95 kph (60 mph) are dark red. The most noticeable difference is the extent of the strong wind fields. For Katrina, winds over 65 kilometers per hour stretched about 500 kilometers (300 miles) from edge to edge. For Sandy, winds of that intensity spanned an region of ocean three times as great--1,500 kilometers (900 miles). Katrina was able to generate a record-height storm surge over a small area of the Mississippi coast. Sandy generated a lower but highly destructive storm surge over a much larger area, due to the storm's weaker winds but much larger size. Image credit: NASA.

How did Sandy get so big?
We understand fairly well what controls the peak strength of a hurricane's winds, but have a poor understanding of why some hurricanes get large and others stay small. A number of factors probably worked together to create a "prefect storm" situation that allowed Sandy to grow so large, and we also must acknowledge that climate change could have played a role. Here are some possible reasons why Sandy grew so large:

1) Initial size of the disturbance that became Sandy was large
Sandy formed from an African tropical wave that interacted with a large area of low pressure that covered most of the Central Caribbean. Rotunno and Emanuel (1987) found that hurricanes that form from large initial tropical disturbances like Sandy did tend to end up large in size.


Figure 2. The initial disturbance that spawned Sandy, seen here on October 20, 2012, was quite large.

2) High relative humidity in Sandy's genesis region
The amount of moisture in the atmosphere may play an important role in how large a hurricane gets (Hill and Lackmann, 2009.) Sandy was spawned in the Caribbean in a region where the relative humidity was near 70%. This is the highest humidity we saw during 2012 during the formation of any Atlantic hurricane.

3) Passage over Cuba
Sandy struck Cuba as an intensifying Category 2 hurricane with 110 mph winds. While the core of the storm was over Cuba, it was cut off from the warm ocean waters surrounding Cuba. Most of Sandy's large circulation was still over the ocean, though, and the energy the storm was able to extract from the ocean went into intensifying the spiral bands over water. When Sandy's core re-emerged over water, the hurricane now had spiral bands with heavier thunderstorm activity as a result of the extra energy pumped into the outer portion of the storm during the eye's passage over land. This extra energy in the outer portions of Sandy may have enabled it to expand in size later.

4) Interaction with a trough of low pressure over the Bahamas
As Sandy passed through the Bahamas on October 25, the storm encountered strong upper-level winds associated with a trough of low pressure to the west. These winds created high wind shear that helped weaken Sandy and destroy the eyewall. However, Sandy compensated by spreading out its tropical storm-force winds over a much wider area. Between 15 and 21 UTC on October 25, Sandy's area of tropical storm-force winds increased by more than a factor of two.

5) Leveraging of the Earth's spin
As storms move towards Earth's poles, they acquire more spin, since Earth's rotation works to put more vertical spin into the atmosphere the closer one gets to the pole. This extra spin helps storms grow larger, and we commonly see hurricanes grow in size as they move northwards.

6) Interaction with a trough of low pressure at landfall
As Sandy approached landfall in New Jersey, it encountered an extratropical low pressure system to its west. This extratropical storm began pumping cold air aloft into the hurricane, which converted Sandy into an extratropical low pressure system, or "Nor'easter". The nature of extratropical storms is to have a much larger area with strong winds than a hurricane does, since extratropical storms derive their energy from the atmosphere along a frontal boundary that is typically many hundreds of miles long. Thus, as Sandy made landfall, the hurricane's strongest winds spread out over a larger area, causing damage from Indiana to Nova Scotia.

Are we likely to see more such storms in the future?
Global warming theory (Emanuel, 2005) predicts that a 2°C (3.6°F) increase in ocean temperatures should cause an increase in the peak winds of the strongest hurricanes of about about 10%. Furthermore, warmer ocean temperatures are expected to cause hurricanes to dump 20% more rain in their cores by the year 2100, according to computer modeling studies (Knutson et al., 2010). However, there has been no published work describing how hurricane size may change with warmer oceans in a future climate. We've seen an unusual number of Atlantic hurricanes with large size in recent years, but we currently have no theoretical or computer modeling simulations that can explain why this is so, or if we might see more storms like this in the future. However, we've seen significant and unprecedented changes to our atmosphere in recent decades, due to our emissions of heat-trapping gases like carbon dioxide. The laws of physics demand that the atmosphere must respond. Atmospheric circulation patterns that control extreme weather events must change, and we should expect extreme storms to change in character, frequency, and intensity as a result--and not always in the ways our computer models may predict. We have pushed our climate system to a fundamentally new, higher-energy state where more heat and moisture is available to power stronger storms, and we should be concerned about the possibility that Hurricane Sandy's freak size and power were partially due to human-caused climate change.

References
Emanuel, K. (2005). Increasing destructiveness of tropical cyclones over the past 30 years. Nature, 436(7051), 686-688.

Hill, Kevin A., and Gary M. Lackmann (2009), "Influence of environmental humidity on tropical cyclone size," Monthly Weather Review 137.10 (2009): 3294-3315.

Knutson, T. R., McBride, J. L., Chan, J., Emanuel, K., Holland, G., Landsea, C., ... & Sugi, M. (2010). Tropical cyclones and climate change. Nature Geoscience, 3(3), 157-163.

Rotunno, R., & Emanuel, K. A. (1987). An air–sea interaction theory for tropical cyclones. Part II: Evolutionary study using a nonhydrostatic axisymmetric numerical model. J. Atmos. Sci, 44(3), 542-561.

The Atlantic is quiet, but a Nor'easter expected next week
The Atlantic is quiet, with no threat areas to discuss. An area of low pressure is predicted to develop just north of Bermuda on Wednesday, and the GFS model predicts that this low could become a subtropical cyclone as moves north-northeastwards out to sea late in the week.

The long-range models are in increasing agreement that a Nor'easter will develop near the North Carolina coast on Sunday, then move north to northeastwards early next week. High winds, heavy rain, and coastal flooding could affect the mid-Atlantic coast and New England coasts next Monday and Tuesday due to this storm, but it appears likely that the Nor'easter will stay farther out to sea than the last Nor'easter and have less of an impact on the region devastated by Sandy. Ocean temperatures off the coast of North Carolina were cooled by about 4°F (2.2°C) due to the churning action of Hurricane Sandy's winds, but are still warm enough at 22 - 24°C to potentially allow the Nor'easter to acquire some subtropical characteristics. I doubt the storm would be able to become a named subtropical storm, but it could have an unusual amount of heavy rain if it does become partially tropical. The Nor'easter is still a long ways in the future, and there is still a lot of uncertainty on where the storm might go.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting etxwx:


*raises hand* I will! I already have a compost bucket and am a whiz at shoveling manure. :-D

Seriously, I'm guessing a household waste reactor could be plumbed into the system. Kinda like a septic tank. We already have ways of pumping out black water from motor homes, etc. so I think we could work out the sanitary part.

And if the smell is a concern, have you ever been around an oilfield or refinery? Not pleasant at all. Old timey Texans call it the smell of money, but it still reeks. I'll take the smell of manure anytime. ;-)


Heck yeah! Honestly, if one of these could also work with varied animal waste, this household would be all set. Not like I don't have to clean up the poo anyway.

And yeah, having some way to largely plumb whatever into the system would make more people likely to use it (and probably be safer in the long run, since lots of folks aren't, um, up on sanitary handling of such things.) I was a country kid and I'm pretty unfazed by all kinds of stuff, but most people have a pretty strong ick reaction.

It's a cool idea, anyway. Hope they can get it to work efficiently, I'd totally be on it if it were affordable and efficient.
Member Since: August 26, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 368
Barefootontherocks...

"No proof global warming caused Sandy to be as big, destructive or unusual as she was."



I would go out to say to that those Gulf Stream waters pointing north were a good 4-5 Celsius above average where Sandy Crossed from the Outer Banks of North Carolina up to New Jersey. This was the same area in which she begin transitioning into an extra tropical system. Those waters being 4-5 Celsius above normal ARE certainly one MAJOR factor in increasing the frequency of Sandy type storms to that region. There are obviously other factors as well. We just don't know to what degree of the affect could be. That is something we will know more about in the decades to come.

The warmer the water the more energy available to be transferred during the process. Basic Law of Thermodynamics supports that hypothesis.

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An extract from a Reuter's article on "Sandy and NYC Hospitals" - a somewhat telling indictment, sadly.



EMERGENCY DRILLS LIGHT ON DETAIL
What hospitals must do to harden themselves against disaster is determined by a patchwork of federal, state and local regulations. The Joint Commission mandates a long list of preparedness steps, including running disaster drills.

But many hospitals just go through the motions, said Dr. Dan Hanfling, special advisor on emergency preparedness at Inova Health System : "Until events of Sandy's magnitude come along, emergency preparedness is just a box that has to be checked."

Virtually no emergency drills simulate a disaster inside a hospital. "I can't remember the last time a hospital ran a disaster drill where the hospital itself was the site of the disaster," Kellerman said.

The Commission also requires hospitals to maintain back-up power equipment and test it 12 times a year for half an hour and for four hours once every three years. There is no requirement for war-gaming a situation that knocks out that equipment.

Only with "new construction or renovation projects" are hospitals supposed to place such equipment above flood level, explained the Commission' Mills, and even in those cases it is something that "should" be considered but is not required. That means the stricken New York hospitals are not unusual.

"We are definitely making progress in preparedness, but many hospitals are still trying to figure this out,"said Inova's Hanfling. "They would fare about the same" should another storm like Sandy roar ashore.
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Quoting AegirsGal:
While I will agree your argument has merit, it's a day late, a dollar, short and misses the point entirely.
LOL. This comment proves my point.
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Quoting Barefootontherocks:
In a word, "Proof." No proof of creation or a higher being. No proof global warming caused Sandy to be as big, destructive or unusual as she was.

Don't kid yourself about science. Science did not convince humans to evacuate Staten Island. Plaquemines for Isaac. Bolivar for Ike.

For solving any problem that involves the ever present human factor, a game plan with a view of "Science vs Mythology," will not work. After all, we do have Colleges of Arts and Sciences. If humans are going to fight their way out of this paper bag, they'll need all the brainpower they can get, from both sides of their brains.

Also, regarding the conversation in comments last night. Whatever words or actions, there are as many different interpretations possible as there are humans on earth. Another example of, let me call it "Humanity," the reason pure science will not work for changing the human condition.
While I will agree your argument has merit, it's a day late, a dollar short, and misses the point entirely.
Member Since: August 2, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 291
Quoting AegirsGal:
As I was in said conversation, I can say that there was no mention or inference of metaphor or analogy. Rather it was more like being pestered by a kid asking why? after every explanation. I also felt like I was feeding a troll, because never did he bring related information to the discussion, but rather badgered with a book that has NOTHING to do with SCIENCE, but entirely of MYTHOLOGY.

Please explain to me how that is at all metaphorical or analogous.
In a word, "Proof." No proof of creation or a higher being. No proof global warming caused Sandy to be as big, destructive or unusual as she was.

Don't kid yourself about science. Science did not convince humans to evacuate Staten Island. Plaquemines for Isaac. Bolivar for Ike.

For solving any problem that involves the ever present human factor, a game plan with a view of "Science vs Mythology," will not work. After all, we do have Colleges of Arts and Sciences. If humans are going to fight their way out of this paper bag, they'll need all the brainpower they can get, from both sides of their brains.

Also, regarding the conversation in comments last night. Whatever words or actions, there are as many different interpretations possible as there are humans on earth. Another example of, let me call it "Humanity," the reason pure science will not work for changing the human condition.
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Quoting etxwx:
As U.S. hesitates, California pours billions into green energy
By Rory Carroll

SAN FRANCISCO | Wed Nov 14, 2012
(Reuters) - Excerpt: California, long the national leader in clean energy policy, is poised to double down on its investments in the sector, with billions in new subsidies set to flow in over the next few years.

California voters last week directed some $2.5 billion to energy conservation programs with the approval of Proposition 39, which closes a corporate tax loophole, allocates about half of the new revenue to environmental goals for five years, and which passed with more than 60 percent of the vote.

In addition, the state this week will begin selling "carbon allowances" as it implements a cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gasses. Revenues from those sales, which could reach $11 billion a year by 2020, will also be used for clean energy development.

The new programs come on top of a solar power subsidy program, now in its fourth year, which has driven a widespread adoption of rooftop solar systems around the state. And an aggressive effort to require electric utilities to use renewable sources for one-third of their output has also given the sector a big financial boost and spurred the construction of several massive solar power plants throughout the state.

"We put our money where our mouths are," said Mary Nichols, chair of the California Air Resources Board, the agency charged with implementing the state's cap-and-trade system.

"We back up what we do in regulation by shifting subsidies from things that pollute and are inefficient to things that are more efficient and make our state more resilient," she said.


Complete article here.
That is a good move for California, and they need to do it more than any other state for the obvious reasons. This is how L.A. looks through a layer of smog.
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550. etxwx
As U.S. hesitates, California pours billions into green energy
By Rory Carroll

SAN FRANCISCO | Wed Nov 14, 2012
(Reuters) - Excerpt: California, long the national leader in clean energy policy, is poised to double down on its investments in the sector, with billions in new subsidies set to flow in over the next few years.

California voters last week directed some $2.5 billion to energy conservation programs with the approval of Proposition 39, which closes a corporate tax loophole, allocates about half of the new revenue to environmental goals for five years, and which passed with more than 60 percent of the vote.

In addition, the state this week will begin selling "carbon allowances" as it implements a cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gasses. Revenues from those sales, which could reach $11 billion a year by 2020, will also be used for clean energy development.

The new programs come on top of a solar power subsidy program, now in its fourth year, which has driven a widespread adoption of rooftop solar systems around the state. And an aggressive effort to require electric utilities to use renewable sources for one-third of their output has also given the sector a big financial boost and spurred the construction of several massive solar power plants throughout the state.

"We put our money where our mouths are," said Mary Nichols, chair of the California Air Resources Board, the agency charged with implementing the state's cap-and-trade system.

"We back up what we do in regulation by shifting subsidies from things that pollute and are inefficient to things that are more efficient and make our state more resilient," she said.


Complete article here.
Member Since: September 4, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1484
Their are some things that science cannot explain.Some things are still un known in the universe and those unknown things well most of them should stay unknown for the better of man kind.At least that's what my professor told me over some 20 years ago.Somethings cannot be given a explaination.Some people who have nothing wrong with them say they might have seen a ghost but cannot scientifically explain it because no one will beleieve them..but they know what they saw and it will belong in the category of the unknown...
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Rain!!:)
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Quoting FunnelVortex:


Take it outside Godboy.
This is entirely funny..I needed to smile this morning..Thank you F.V.
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Quoting ncstorm:
Good Morning..is it safe to post weather maps?



I too will post weather charts at my own peril...This is looking like a winter pattern, and should gradually become more amplified as time progresses.
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Quoting Barefootontherocks:
You might want to look up the definition of metaphor... or analogy. Either word might help you understand a thread of discussion that was about climate change not religion and that, until you commented, was amazingly civil. I flagged your comment.
As I was in said conversation, I can say that there was no mention or inference of metaphor or analogy. Rather it was more like being pestered by a kid asking why? after every explanation. I also felt like I was feeding a troll, because never did he bring related information to the discussion, but rather badgered with a book that has NOTHING to do with SCIENCE, but entirely of MYTHOLOGY.

Please explain to me how that is at all metaphorical or analogous.
Member Since: August 2, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 291
542. Skyepony (Mod)
There really is a lack of education in this country concerning electricity. If people were as educated about playing with & using electricity like they were horses in the 1800 we could be so much farther along. One problem is corporations & such want it to be a product we purchase every bit of instead of learn how to produce on our properties & sell back to the grid & others that would just rather buy it. We should be the power plants producing clean electricity from our rooftops & such.

Electricity is pretty easy to make..I've figured out how to make solar panels for ~50 cent a watt. Nothing compared to these four African girls..they made a generator that creates 6 hrs of electricity from 1Liter of urine. That could be the toilet that revolutionizes the world..
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Manure stinks.When the people come to plant the bushes and flowers it is a god awful smell that stays around almost the whole day.Especially when it's hot outside.Good lord!.
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Quoting jeffs713:
The smell of manure - the smell of eating veggies that you picked two hours ago.
Hi jeffs,
Maybe we could just bury it in the ground the way cats do and plant trees over it. I'm serious. Though this would probably not work on a large scale, like an urban area.
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539. etxwx
Update on the California Cap and Trade Auction today:
California's cap-and-trade auction may be disrupted by Chamber of Commerce lawsuit
via McClatchey News 11.14.12
Excerpt: California's most powerful business lobby filed a last-minute lawsuit Tuesday that could spoil today's launch of the state's cap-and-trade market to curtail greenhouse gases.

The lawsuit by the California Chamber of Commerce challenges the validity of the state-run auction of carbon emission allowances – the centerpiece of AB 32, California's climate change law. The chamber, which has been protesting the auction for months, says the sale is really an unconstitutional tax.

California expects to raise billions of dollars from selling carbon credits over the next several years, with the first sale set for today.

In its lawsuit, the chamber didn't seek a court order blocking today's auction, and state officials said the sale would proceed as scheduled. Instead, the chamber is trying to eliminate future auctions, which are set for regular intervals over the next eight years, said Loren Kaye of the California Foundation for Commerce and Education, a chamber affiliate.

Even though today's auction will go forward, the chamber's lawsuit could have a chilling effect on the bidding.

"Filing this lawsuit on the eve of the first auction really seems quite unsavory," said Tim O'Connor, director of the Environmental Defense Fund's California climate and energy initiative. "They're throwing a wrench in California's comprehensive program" to curb greenhouse gases.

Jon Costantino, executive director of the Association of Carbon Market Participants, said potential bidders might think twice about jumping into today's auction. He envisioned a scenario in which "you're a successful bidder and the auction is invalidated."

More on this here.
Member Since: September 4, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1484
Quoting FunnelVortex:


Take it outside Godboy.
You might want to look up the definition of metaphor... or analogy. Either word might help you understand a thread of discussion that was about climate change not religion and that, until you commented, was amazingly civil. I flagged your comment.

Ps. Ditto, Waltanater 503.
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The smell of manure - the smell of eating veggies that you picked two hours ago.
Member Since: August 3, 2008 Posts: 16 Comments: 5885
Alot of clouds in the conus this am..
And Canada as well..

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535. etxwx
Quoting LargoFl:
yes and..it gets rid of waste, but i'd like to know who..is going to collect it and put INto the reactor?..you get the picture...kitchen and "bathroom" waste


*raises hand* I will! I already have a compost bucket and am a whiz at shoveling manure. :-D

Seriously, I'm guessing a household waste reactor could be plumbed into the system. Kinda like a septic tank. We already have ways of pumping out black water from motor homes, etc. so I think we could work out the sanitary part.

And if the smell is a concern, have you ever been around an oilfield or refinery? Not pleasant at all. Old timey Texans call it the smell of money, but it still reeks. I'll take the smell of manure anytime. ;-)
Member Since: September 4, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1484
Quoting etxwx:


You are welcome, pcola57, I found it heartening too. Sometimes you see posts worrying about "going back to horse and buggy days" but there are potentially many ways to reduce our use of fossil fuels and still maintain a modern, but low impact lifestyle. I don't think my computer cares if the electricity that powers it comes from wind, solar or coal, but it sure makes a difference to the atmosphere. Having a small back up generator that ran on household wastes would be a big help in quieting those who worry about the sun "not always shining and the wind not always blowing".

I think folks sometimes want to find that one size fits all energy solution, but in reality I believe it will be a lot of different solutions for various situations that will work together. That's my hope anyway.


Very well put.. :)
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06z Nogaps

00z Euro




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Quoting LargoFl:
with 14 or more trillion dollars in the red..im sure we are going to see taxes we never would have thought possible in the near future
Exactly.
Quoting ncstorm:
From Facebook

Henry Margusity Fan Club
NAO going back down again so watch the coast this weekend. If NAO continues on NEG, wild winter ahead.
Ohh I hope so.My poor salt that I brought for last winter has been getting dusty.The poor thing looks depressed right now.lol.
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Quoting goosegirl1:
WASHINGTON (AP) %u2014 Climate change is suddenly a hot topic again. The issue is resurfacing in talks about a once radical idea: a possible carbon tax.

On Tuesday, a conservative think tank held discussions about it while a more liberal think tank released a paper on it. And the Congressional Budget Office issued a 19-page report on the different ways to make a carbon tax less burdensome on lower income people.


A carbon tax works by making people pay more for using fossil fuels like coal, oil, and gas that produce heat-trapping carbon dioxide.

The idea was considered so radical that in 2009, when President Barack Obama tried to pass a bill on global warming, that he instead opted for the more moderate approach of capping power plant emissions and trading credits that allowed utilities to pollute more. That idea, after passing the House, stalled in the Senate in 2010 and has been considered dead since.

Even so, the Obama administration has no plans to push for a carbon tax now, said a White House official who spoke on condition of anonymity because there are no discussions about the issue.

The whole issue of climate change was virtually absent during the presidential campaign until Hurricane Sandy hit the East Coast. The devastating superstorm %u2014 a rarity for the Northeast %u2014 and an election that led to Democratic gains have shoved global warming back into the conversation. So has the hunt for answers to a looming budget crisis.


Link


A much needed idea as business only listens to the $ sign..
However,I am concerned about the timing of the tax..
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530. beell
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Succession when talking about states leaving the union is completely correct. Don't let others tell you otherwise.


Sure about that?

From wiki.

Succession of states is a theory and practice in international relations regarding the recognition and acceptance of a newly created sovereign state by other states, based on a perceived historical relationship the new state has with a prior state. The theory has its root in 19th century diplomacy.

Secession (derived from the Latin term secessio) is the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or especially a political entity...

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529. etxwx
Quoting pcola57:


Very important work indeed..one with far reaching and positive results..
If/when they can get it financially feasible it will be a great step in the right direction and will start paving the way to better tech in this area..
Thanks for that etxwx.. :)


You are welcome, pcola57, I found it heartening too. Sometimes you see posts worrying about "going back to horse and buggy days" but there are potentially many ways to reduce our use of fossil fuels and still maintain a modern, but low impact lifestyle. I don't think my computer cares if the electricity that powers it comes from wind, solar or coal, but it sure makes a difference to the atmosphere. Having a small back up generator that ran on household wastes would be a big help in quieting those who worry about the sun "not always shining and the wind not always blowing".

I think folks sometimes want to find that one size fits all energy solution, but in reality I believe it will be a lot of different solutions for various situations that will work together. That's my hope anyway.
Member Since: September 4, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1484
From Facebook

Henry Margusity Fan Club
NAO going back down again so watch the coast this weekend. If NAO continues on NEG, wild winter ahead.
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I guess this is coming down my way later in the week..not too bad.................................
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Quoting goosegirl1:
WASHINGTON (AP) %u2014 Climate change is suddenly a hot topic again. The issue is resurfacing in talks about a once radical idea: a possible carbon tax.

On Tuesday, a conservative think tank held discussions about it while a more liberal think tank released a paper on it. And the Congressional Budget Office issued a 19-page report on the different ways to make a carbon tax less burdensome on lower income people.


A carbon tax works by making people pay more for using fossil fuels like coal, oil, and gas that produce heat-trapping carbon dioxide.

The idea was considered so radical that in 2009, when President Barack Obama tried to pass a bill on global warming, that he instead opted for the more moderate approach of capping power plant emissions and trading credits that allowed utilities to pollute more. That idea, after passing the House, stalled in the Senate in 2010 and has been considered dead since.

Even so, the Obama administration has no plans to push for a carbon tax now, said a White House official who spoke on condition of anonymity because there are no discussions about the issue.

The whole issue of climate change was virtually absent during the presidential campaign until Hurricane Sandy hit the East Coast. The devastating superstorm %u2014 a rarity for the Northeast %u2014 and an election that led to Democratic gains have shoved global warming back into the conversation. So has the hunt for answers to a looming budget crisis.


Link
with 14 or more trillion dollars in the red..im sure we are going to see taxes we never would have thought possible in the near future
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Good Morning..is it safe to post weather maps?



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looks like Patrap has nice but cool weather today......
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Quoting pcola57:


You know I would definitely use it ..smell or no smell..I've had enough of Big Oil/$$$$ ..No more BP for me and not to mention behind the scenes politician and "cup and ball" games..
Saudi's can keep their oil..
I wonder how that taste's on their Cheerio's.. :)
I heard about the news of the U.S becoming oil independent and using our own resources.I hope so.So many people have lost their lives in trying to get this oil it's rediculous.That's one of the reasons we were fighting in the war.

522..sounds like people are having their freedom being taken away from them just like I said.Just look here in D.C..they are making us pay 5 cent for plastic bags.
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WASHINGTON (AP) %u2014 Climate change is suddenly a hot topic again. The issue is resurfacing in talks about a once radical idea: a possible carbon tax.

On Tuesday, a conservative think tank held discussions about it while a more liberal think tank released a paper on it. And the Congressional Budget Office issued a 19-page report on the different ways to make a carbon tax less burdensome on lower income people.


A carbon tax works by making people pay more for using fossil fuels like coal, oil, and gas that produce heat-trapping carbon dioxide.

The idea was considered so radical that in 2009, when President Barack Obama tried to pass a bill on global warming, that he instead opted for the more moderate approach of capping power plant emissions and trading credits that allowed utilities to pollute more. That idea, after passing the House, stalled in the Senate in 2010 and has been considered dead since.

Even so, the Obama administration has no plans to push for a carbon tax now, said a White House official who spoke on condition of anonymity because there are no discussions about the issue.

The whole issue of climate change was virtually absent during the presidential campaign until Hurricane Sandy hit the East Coast. The devastating superstorm %u2014 a rarity for the Northeast %u2014 and an election that led to Democratic gains have shoved global warming back into the conversation. So has the hunt for answers to a looming budget crisis.


Link
Member Since: December 17, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1231
Quoting LargoFl:
yes and..it gets rid of waste, but i'd like to know who..is going to collect it and put INto the reactor?..you get the picture


You know I would definitely use it ..smell or no smell..I've had enough of Big Oil/$$$$ ..No more BP for me and not to mention behind the scenes politician and "cup and ball" games..
Saudi's (and other countries we import from)can keep their oil..
I wonder how that taste's on their Cheerio's.. :)
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..............................cool in texas today also
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Quoting pcola57:


It's comin'!!..
yes it sure is, going to go all the way down to south florida this week
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Quoting pcola57:


Very important work indeed..one with far reaching and positive results..
If/when they can get it financially feasible it will be a great step in the right direction and will start paving the way to better tech in this area..
Thanks for that etxwx.. :)
yes and..it gets rid of waste, but i'd like to know who..is going to collect it and put INto the reactor?..you get the picture...kitchen and "bathroom" waste
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Quoting LargoFl:
yes cloudy and a bit cool today, but not too bad overall here, cold front will be over me in a day or so


It's comin'!!..
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Quoting etxwx:
Household bio-reactors have powerful future
Video here (transcript is also available at the video link)
by Ben Gruber - Reuters - Nov. 12
Summary: Researchers at the Argonne National Laboratory are developing a mobile reactor they say will one day play a crucial role in helping people after natural disasters like Hurricane Sandy. The reactor can convert kitchen and bathroom waste into a high energy fuel that can be made at home and used to power generators during a power outage.


Very important work indeed..one with far reaching and positive results..
If/when they can get it financially feasible it will be a great step in the right direction and will start paving the way to better tech in this area..
Thanks for that etxwx.. :)
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I'm having another cool and blustery morning today.Didn't wear a coat because if your a true Washingtonian this cold and wind isn't anything we can't handle!.Another coastal storm will once again bring rain clouds and cool temps to the region.It won't be to long now before we're looking at snow.December don't disappoint me like the last one..felt more like spring than anything.
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Quoting pcola57:




1 KM Visible Satellite for Florida



yes cloudy and a bit cool today, but not too bad overall here, cold front will be over me in a day or so
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513. etxwx
Household bio-reactors have powerful future
Video here (transcript is also available at the video link)
by Ben Gruber - Reuters - Nov. 12
Summary: Researchers at the Argonne National Laboratory are developing a mobile reactor they say will one day play a crucial role in helping people after natural disasters like Hurricane Sandy. The reactor can convert kitchen and bathroom waste into a high energy fuel that can be made at home and used to power generators during a power outage.
Member Since: September 4, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1484




1 KM Visible Satellite for Florida



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Good Morning all,
41 degrees,P/Cloudy,76%RH,5 mph winds from the NNE,30.27"
A webcam pic from around here..

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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