First Hurricane Sandy, now Winter Storm Athena for the Eastern U.S.

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 2:57 PM GMT on November 07, 2012

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Winter Storm Warnings are up for Southwest New Jersey, Northern Delaware, and Southeast Pennsylvania, including Philadelphia, PA, where Winter Storm Athena is expected to drop 3 - 5" of snow today through Thursday morning. Slushy accumulations of up to 1" are likely in Baltimore, and non-accumulating snow will fall as far south as Washington, DC. Athena, the season's first Nor'easter and first winter storm to get a name under The Weather Channel's new naming system, is spreading rain and high winds into Southern New Jersey and Eastern Long Island, NY this morning. Winds at buoy 44025, about 40 miles offshore from the coast of Central New Jersey, reached 40 mph, gusting to 49 mph, with a significant wave height of 14', at noon EST. Winds at Nantucket, MA have gusted as high as 54 mph this morning. Athena is building a storm surge that has already reached 2.2' at Atlantic City and 1.8' at New York City as of noon EST. A storm surge of 2 - 3.5' is likely along the section of coast most heavily damaged by Sandy's storm surge, and battering waves up to 20' high will cause moderate beach erosion along much of the New Jersey and New York shoreline. The storm surge will cause minor to moderate flooding during this afternoon's high tide cycle near 1 pm EST, and again at the next high tide, near 1 am EST Thursday morning. Fortunately, the high tides this week will be some of the lowest of the month, since we are midway between the new moon and full moon. Wind gusts from Athena will likely reach 50 mph along the coasts of New Jersey and Southern Long Island, NY, and could hit 60 mph on Cape Cod, Massachusetts. I expect that Athena's winds, rains, and wet, heavy snows will cause up to 50,000 new power outages today. As of early Wednesday morning, 676,000 customers were still without power in the wake of Hurricane Sandy (down from a peak of 8.5 million customers.)


Figure 1. Winter Storm Athena as seen at 9:01 am EST November 7, 2012. Image credit: NOAA/GSFC.


Figure 2. Predicted storm surge at Sandy Hook, NJ, for Winter Storm Athena, from the experimental Extratropical Storm Surge model, run by NOAA's Meteorological Development Laboratory. This model used winds from this morning's 6Z (1 am EDT) run of the GFS model. The peak storm surge (yellowish-brown line) is predicted to be 3.4', occurring Wednesday evening. High tide (green line) occurs near 1 pm Wednesday afternoon, resulting in a peak storm tide of approximately 7.2' around 1 pm Wednesday (black line). For comparison, Sandy delivered a 8.6' storm surge to Sandy Hook before their tide gauge failed, with the storm tide reaching 13.2' above MLLW (Mean Lower Low Water.)

The decision to name Athena
The Weather Channel announced in October that they would begin naming winter storms this year, in an effort to aid in raising awareness and reduce the risks the public faces. One of the main criteria for naming a storm is its impact on populated areas; the meteorology of the storm may not get it named, if the storm doesn't affect a populated area. If Hurricane Sandy had not devastated the region of coast being affected by today's Winter Storm Athena, it may not have gotten a name. With so many people still under recovery efforts even well inland, the combination of heavy, wet snow and wind prompted the decision to name Athena. The models have been trending towards more cold air getting pulled into this system, so it is possible Athena could drop heavier snows than currently advertised. The National Weather Service will not be referring to today's Nor'easter as "Athena". They put out this internal directive: "The NWS does not use named winter storms in our products. Please refrain from using the term Athena in any of our products."

Here are the peak wind gusts from Athena as of 11 am EST on Wednesday, November 7, 2012:



Jeff Masters

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311. MAweatherboy1
12:05 AM GMT on November 08, 2012
End of the 18z GFS run tonight:

Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 82 Comments: 7566
310. Tazmanian
12:00 AM GMT on November 08, 2012
Quoting tornadodude:




how many time do we need too keep seeing that
Member Since: May 21, 2006 Posts: 5091 Comments: 114653
309. SherwoodSpirit
11:59 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
Up to 39 dead in Guatemala from the quake now.

Link
Member Since: July 18, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 394
308. AussieStorm
11:59 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
NEW YORK CITY AREA WEATHER ROUNDUP
NWS EASTERN REGION HEADQUARTERS BOHEMIA NY
600 PM EST WED NOV 07 2012

NOTE: "FAIR" INDICATES FEW OR NO CLOUDS BELOW 12,000 FEET WITH NO
SIGNIFICANT WEATHER AND/OR OBSTRUCTIONS TO VISIBILTY

NYZ077-081-080000
...LONG ISLAND...

CITY SKY/WX TMP DP RH WIND PRES REMARKS
FARMINGDALE LGT SNOW 33 31 92 N25G38 29.76S VSB 3/4
ISLIP NOT AVBL
SHIRLEY NOT AVBL
EASTHAMPTON NOT AVBL
WESTHAMPTON LGT SNOW 36 32 85 N26G41 29.71R FOG
MONTAUK N/A 38 35 89 N23G36 29.68S
$$

NYZ072>076-080000
...NEW YORK CITY...

CITY SKY/WX TMP DP RH WIND PRES REMARKS
CENTRAL PARK NOT AVBL
LAGUARDIA LGT SNOW 34 34 100 N24G33 29.84R VSB 3/4
KENNEDY SNOW 32 31 96 N23G35 29.82S VSB 1/2
$$

NJZ001>014-080000
...NORTHERN NEW JERSEY...

CITY SKY/WX TMP DP RH WIND PRES REMARKS
NEWARK NOT AVBL
TETERBORO NOT AVBL
LINDEN NOT AVBL
WEST CALDWELL NOT AVBL
MORRISTOWN LGT SNOW 32 30 93 N15G28 29.89R VSB 3/4
ANDOVER NOT AVBL
SUSSEX LGT SNOW 33 30 88 NE5 29.91S VSB 1
SOMERSET LGT SNOW 33 32 96 N8G18 29.87R FOG
$$

NJZ015>026-080000
...SOUTHERN NEW JERSEY...

CITY SKY/WX TMP DP RH WIND PRES REMARKS
TRENTON NOT AVBL
MOUNT HOLLY LGT SNOW 33 32 96 N12G20 29.86R FOG
BELMAR NOT AVBL
LAKEHURST NOT AVBL
TOMS RIVER NOT AVBL
ATLANTIC CITY LGT SNOW 32 31 96 N14 29.82R VSB 3/4
WILDWOOD CLOUDY 36 32 87 N12G23 29.80R
$$

CTZ001>006-080000
...COASTAL CONNECTICUT...

CITY SKY/WX TMP DP RH WIND PRES REMARKS
BRIDGEPORT LGT SNOW 32 31 96 N22G29 29.80R VSB 1
NEW HAVEN SNOW 32 30 92 N20G32 29.78S VSB 1/2
GROTON LGT SNOW 34 30 86 N22G31 29.71S FOG
CHESTER NOT AVBL
$$

ANZ330-335-338-340-345-350-353-355-080000
...MARINE OBSERVATIONS...

STATION/POSITION SKY/WX TEMP WIND PRES WAVE
AIR SEA DIR/SP/G HT/PER
(F) (DEG/KT/KT) (MB) (FT/S)
NY HARBOR ENTR 37 56 340/ 29/ 35 1007.2R 14/12
SANDY HOOK NOT AVBL
ROBBINS REEF 33 350/ 25/ 30 1009.0R
20NM S FIRE IS 40 57 360/ 35/ 43 1004.0S 20/14
23NM SW MTP NOT AVBL
HUDSON CANYON 54 360/ 21/ 29 N/A
EXECUTION ROCKS 54 360/ 21/ 29 N/A
WESTERN LI SOUND 36 360/ 21/ 27 N/A 3/ 6
CENTRAL LI SOUND 36 58 350/ 27/ 39 N/A 5/ 4
EASTERN LI SOUND 36 58 350/ 27/ 39 N/A 5/ 4
$$
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15892
307. AussieStorm
11:58 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:


it's like..."no kids, we are not doing that ok because it's bad" lol

can you give me the link for that??? I would like to see it on the NWS site


Link
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15892
306. uncwhurricane85
11:55 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
Quoting Barefootontherocks:
What you say about 5000 feet may be true for California, but it is not true for Western Washington. Also, when these lows bomb into the west coast, wind is most often the concern. Flooding can also be a concern. Not to mention the type of winter weather that occurs in Alaska and Western Canada. If we're not going to name "normal" winter weather, why name this system Athena? Sure, lows roll onto western North America all year round, and some of them cause blizzards, death and hurricane-like destruction.

What difference does it make how much population will have to be affected before TWC gives one of these a name?

Was Cantore and Co. in Nome a year ago tomorrow? and/or do you know what I'm referring to? In case you don't, here's the wiki version.


no because he didnt need to be if they did that he would be there every week thats what im saying...its just normal weather, the west coast jets straight up out of the ocean in most spots and can take these storms, the east cant! its just normal weather out there!
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 570
305. trHUrrIXC5MMX
11:49 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
Quoting tornadodude:


it's like..."no kids, we are not doing that ok because it's bad" lol

can you give me the link for that??? I would like to see it on the NWS site
Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 104 Comments: 14870
304. plutorising
11:40 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
Quoting AussieStorm:
You guys have a Nor'easter, we down here a Sou'easter. Lucky it's not going to effect to many people.



Loop

_________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

I have just read back a bit, people here have been saying it's good that TWC is naming winter storms. The one problem I have is it's private company and doing it for marketing. Yes there are other Weather services naming storms in Europe, and that's the thing, they are national weather services not private companies like TWC.

Quoting AussieStorm:



Of course you do, your an employee of TWC now or you have to agree with them cause they gave you a whole bunch of $$$ for your website.

Also it all depends on how many subscribers TWC has in effected areas. Also most of the areas that will be impacted by this Nor'easter are more worried about getting there power/cable/gas on than to tune into TWC. My guess is these people will get there information from local radio which will not use "Athena" but just Nor'easter or Storm.

Goodnight all. Stay well, Stay safe and warm all those in the area this Nor'easter.

Cheers





Please when you quote me, quote the whole comment not just parts of it.

There is still 650,000 connections without power in the NE that were effected by Sandy. The people that live at these connections are more worried about staying warm than hurrying to get there cable re-connected just to watch TWC and there broadcast about Winter Storm Amadeus. If you don't have no power/tv, what are you going to do to get information, listen to the radio, wx radio or a battery powered AM/FM radio.


sorry about that.
Member Since: August 30, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 80
303. Neapolitan
11:34 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:
Can anyone explain why the sea ice loss in the arctic is so vastly different between the Atlantic side and the Pacific side each year. It seems the Pacific side always remains near average to slightly above average while the Atlantic side loses large quantities of ice compared to average.
The Arctic sea is open to the Atlantic via the Fram Strait (primarily; there are other lesser openings), a deep and wide undersea channel that allows for warm water to flow into the Arctic and ice to be flushed southward (think the Titanic and icebergs). On the Pacific side, the only gateway to the Arctic is the Bering Strait, which is far more narrow and shallow than the Fram Strait.

SIA
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13442
302. MontanaZephyr
11:25 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
Quoting HadesGodWyvern:




wondering if that one Southern California Weather website will name it Charles. =P



Would it still count if it crosses the Mexican border? How about southern Mexico? They have people there ... or don't they count? Will their storms get names too? How about Central America? How about when storms leave the American radar screen altogether? I have friends that live in Northern Maine (Chesuncook). They get dissed because by the time weather events get to them, the media treats it as over and done with, further ignored, though the storm for them will still rage for days. But the weather people in NYC and Boston feel that the whole thing is yesterday's news.

It's all just sophmoric silliness.
Member Since: May 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 437
301. vanwx
11:20 PM GMT on November 07, 2012
Quoting MontanaZephyr:


That would be unscientific. Effect? What does that word mean in this context? If a tornado makes an impact on thousands of people, perhaps, we'll say for the sake of argument, killing them all, this we shant name.... but if it is a cloudy breezy day in the NorthEast, they'll be on to naming the thing?

Bosh!~

Plus, who, even is picking these names ...? Probably some tasteless denizens of the breeding classes that went to state school.


As a tasteless denizen of the breeding class that went to state school before several others I would like to say that nomenclature is universal. To the residents of the NE coast the proper reference should probably be 'the current low affecting our coast', in records it should be date/location, between the workers in the office it might have a disposable pet name ie'#2 incoming bomb'.; I can say 'Krakatoa' to you and there's a pretty good chance we'll agree which event.
Member Since: February 6, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 126
300. HadesGodWyvern (Mod)


Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:
WINTER WEATHER UPDATE

_________________________________

Montana Blizzard



Click for a bigger pic for details....



wondering if that one Southern California Weather website will name it Charles. =P

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 24 Comments: 8200
Weekly Tropical Climate Note
Issued on Tuesday 6 November 2012

Madden-Julian Oscillation intensifies
During the past week the Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO) has gradually intensified over the western Indian Ocean, slowly propagating east. Enhanced convection now extends from the central Indian Ocean to the western Maritime Continent. However, a wide variety of international models surveyed by the Bureau forecast the MJO to weaken by next week before it enters Australian latitudes. As the MJO weakens, convective activity in the western Pacific should return to normal, after a few weeks of suppressed conditions.
For the past few weeks the East Asian monsoon has migrated southwards, heralding the beginning of the dry season over northern parts of the Maritime Continent and continental South-East Asia as winds have turned north-easterly. After a few weeks of inactivity, the northern flank of the South Pacific Convergence Zone has intensified over Solomon Islands and Vanuatu bringing enhanced convection to the area.
Over the next few days, a trough sweeping across the Australian continent will bring showers and storms to northern Australia with warm and gusty northerly winds ahead of the trough affecting the central parts. This is expected to be the heaviest rainfall for central Australia since April.
See the Bureau's MJO Monitoring for more information on location and tracking of the MJO.

Neutral ENSO conditions

In the Pacific, warmer than average sea surface temperatures (SST) continue to be observed in the western equatorial Pacific. Most of the warm SST anomalies in the Pacific are concentrated around Kiribati. As a result, the ocean waters within the NINO4 index are +1.0 °C above normal. Further east, the NINO3.4 index remains well within neutral values at +0.42 °C. In the subsurface, however, oceanic temperatures in the western Pacific Ocean have cooled slightly by 1 to 2 °C, when compared to the previous month of October.
The Southern Oscillation Index (SOI) continues to be slightly positive. The latest 30 day SOI value to 03 November is +3.1, with Tahiti showing slightly above average sea level pressure and Darwin slightly below. Trade winds along the equator and cloudiness near the Date Line also indicate average conditions.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15892
Quoting sfranz:

I suppose you can always call it "The Storm That Must Not Be Named."

;-)



:-D
Member Since: May 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 437
Quoting sfranz:


Bruised egos and turf wars are just no fun, eh?

If I was at the NWS I would look at TWC project as a free pilot that you don't have to justify, pay for, or write reports on.

Especially, since they are going to do it anyway.

In a year or two you can still evaluate whether it is working or not and write a kick-butt scientific paper - without any administrative overhead or sitting through endless meetings.

A public agency getting huffy about a private concern that they have no direct jurisdiction over isn't going to land anywhere good.

There are people in both organizations that know each other pretty well and a little smoothing over would be a healthy move now on both sides.

But I wouldn't count on that happening.



NWS has elevated themselves. Discussion on this blog is not coming from NWS. Curious what you mean by NWS "getting huffy."
Member Since: April 29, 2006 Posts: 150 Comments: 18274
Quoting trHUrrIXC5MMX:
WINTER WEATHER UPDATE

_________________________________

Montana Blizzard



Click for a bigger pic for details....


Quick, name it Brutus so you get the jump on TWC, LOL.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15892
Quoting MontanaZephyr:


That would be unscientific. Effect? What does that word mean in this context? If a tornado makes an impact on thousands of people, perhaps, we'll say for the sake of argument, killing them all, this we shant name.... but if it is a cloudy breezy day in the NorthEast, they'll be on to naming the thing?

Bosh!~

Plus, who, even is picking these names ...? Probably some tasteless denizens of the breeding classes that went to state school.

TWC actually picked the names.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15892
Quoting Neapolitan:
To summarize, then: you're upset that a thing has been done by a) an organization that you dislike that b) exists on a medium you find vulgar and that is c) watched by people you avoid, a thing which you find d) offensive and e) "ghastily pretentious", even though f) neither you nor g) anyone else are being forced to take part in it, h) the thing has absolutely no force of law behind it, and i) it's something that will j) pop up only occasionally, if not k) rarely.

You lost me, friend. ;-)


:-)

Not upset, just horrified. Is there nothing which the commercial forces of vulgarization will leave untarnished? Ugh!~ When it comes to cultural degradation, it is on par with, say, the educational system no longer requiring students to learn their times tables because they have access to calculators. It is on par with the people of Vienna, failing to throw that Hector Berlioz character out on his ear the very instant he put forth his 'program music', and whence western culture has been slowly degrading ever since! It is like introducing an element of roller derby into ballet!

Gah! Gah! Thrice Gah!~, I say!
Member Since: May 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 437
WINTER WEATHER UPDATE

_________________________________

Montana Blizzard



Click for a bigger pic for details....

Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 104 Comments: 14870
Can anyone explain why the sea ice loss in the arctic is so vastly different between the Atlantic side and the Pacific side each year. It seems the Pacific side always remains near average to slightly above average while the Atlantic side loses large quantities of ice compared to average.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
@MontanaZephyr:

Ah, "cheapening the naming of storms that really matter."

One can be tempted into self-defeating purism in almost anything. The issue of Sandy's hurricaneness at landfall is a case in point: One underlier of the nomenclature is apparently driven by, or at least aligned with, the insurance industry's ability to toggle on a deductible for storms classified as hurricanes at Damage Time. With Sandy that nomenclatural purism, whatever its rationale in departmental/organizational terms of reference may be, showed a great flaw in our governmental weather reportage model: We have a team of excellent specialists following and reporting and warning on tropical systems under the aegis/name National Hurricane Center, but then if even a real bruiser of a storm that qualifies for NHC expertise happens to go extratropical just before Damage Time, pfft! No more NHC advisories and maps and discussions; now change your channel at the height of the storm to your local/regional NWS office. And best of luck if you happen to drop that baton.

This is an outrage. We need a National _Storm_ Center rechartered to identify, track, and report on and warn on, major storm threats -- warm core, cold core, tropical, extratropical, whatever -- from their murmuring beginnings to their muttering ends. We the People should be able to access and stay with _one_ governmental source for that information. Lines can be drawn between national, regional, and local responsibilities for generating that content--multiplesourcing/aggregating those specialistms in a single website is facile--without disrupting the cogency of a single, vital channel.
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I suppose you can always call it "The Storm That Must Not Be Named."

;-)

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


i think if it actually snowed at sea level where most people live out westit would be moe of an issue. I know it occasionally does around seattle and portland, but its snows more often in atlanta than it does there unless you have a crazy winter like last year. not many people live above 5000ft on the west coast. its the same on the east, they never talk about the adirondacks getting snow or heavy winds while its snowing in NYC or DC, If seattle gets snow like last year im sure they will put Jim there, just like they did last year. The constant low pressure systems that roll into the north west are so normal they are just not that important just like it gets 120 in death valley all summer
What you say about 5000 feet may be true for California, but it is not true for Western Washington. Also, when these lows bomb into the west coast, wind is most often the concern. Flooding can also be a concern. Not to mention the type of winter weather that occurs in Alaska and Western Canada. If we're not going to name "normal" winter weather, why name this system Athena? Sure, lows roll onto western North America all year round, and some of them cause blizzards, death and hurricane-like destruction.

What difference does it make how much population will have to be affected before TWC gives one of these a name?

Was Cantore and Co. in Nome a year ago tomorrow? and/or do you know what I'm referring to? In case you don't, here's the wiki version.
Member Since: April 29, 2006 Posts: 150 Comments: 18274
Quoting MontanaZephyr:


But it DOES change something ... it depreciates the meaning of naming storms that really matter. This noreaster is just a piff compared to Sandy or other tropical events.

Too, television is generally vulgar and appeals to vulgar people. I avoid people that watch it, TTYTT. The idea that TV related people would suppose that they may presume to make this move, even in a pop-culture sense, is also offensive and ghastily pretentious.

Ugh!~
To summarize, then: you're upset that a thing has been done by a) an organization that you dislike that b) exists on a medium you find vulgar and that is c) watched by people you avoid, a thing which you find d) offensive and e) "ghastily pretentious", even though f) neither you nor g) anyone else are being forced to take part in it, h) the thing has absolutely no force of law behind it, and i) it's something that will j) pop up only occasionally, if not k) rarely.

You lost me, friend. ;-)
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13442
Quoting MAweatherboy1:
For my part, I will refuse to refer to names given to storms by TWC. I will call them Nor'easters or coastal storms as the NWS, our official source, does. I just disagree with the whole idea. Way too subjective, and more for marketing than scientific purposes.

1-2 inches on the ground in my yard right now, quite a nice surprise as we weren't really expected to get anything accumulating. Funny thing is we'll be pushing 70F this weekend.



oh well get overe it it is what it is



that gos the same for evere one else no need too be bashing the TWC overe naming winter storm it is what it is so get overe it
Member Since: May 21, 2006 Posts: 5091 Comments: 114653
Quoting AussieStorm:

There will be consistency. It will only be used (naming) if the system is going to effect x million people, not x thousands.


That is a risk. I grew up in the Western US and those who say it is somewhat invisible to TWC are not wrong.

That bias would show in the data, though.



Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting sfranz:


I (respectfully) disagree.

There are many nor'easters that can compare to tropical storms and some that stand up to or exceed many hurricanes.

I agree - if every low pressure system garners a name, then it does make naming storms less effective.

A large winter ocean storm is not just a rainy day. I live with these beasties and we take them quite seriously.

TWC piloting the naming of winter storms can be checked for consistency and relative risks.




There will be consistency. It will only be used (naming) if the system is going to effect x million people, not x thousands.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15892
You guys have a Nor'easter, we down here a Sou'easter. Lucky it's not going to effect to many people.



Loop

_________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

I have just read back a bit, people here have been saying it's good that TWC is naming winter storms. The one problem I have is it's private company and doing it for marketing. Yes there are other Weather services naming storms in Europe, and that's the thing, they are national weather services not private companies like TWC.

Quoting AussieStorm:



Of course you do, your an employee of TWC now or you have to agree with them cause they gave you a whole bunch of $$$ for your website.

Also it all depends on how many subscribers TWC has in effected areas. Also most of the areas that will be impacted by this Nor'easter are more worried about getting there power/cable/gas on than to tune into TWC. My guess is these people will get there information from local radio which will not use "Athena" but just Nor'easter or Storm.

Goodnight all. Stay well, Stay safe and warm all those in the area this Nor'easter.

Cheers



Quoting plutorising:


i believe most people get their weather off the weather channel in the states, and don't much listen to radio at all anymore.


Please when you quote me, quote the whole comment not just parts of it.

There is still 650,000 connections without power in the NE that were effected by Sandy. The people that live at these connections are more worried about staying warm than hurrying to get there cable re-connected just to watch TWC and there broadcast about Winter Storm Amadeus. If you don't have no power/tv, what are you going to do to get information, listen to the radio, wx radio or a battery powered AM/FM radio.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15892
Quoting MontanaZephyr:


But it DOES change something ... it depreciates the meaning of naming storms that really matter. This noreaster is just a piff compared to Sandy or other tropical events.


I (respectfully) disagree.

There are many nor'easters that can compare to tropical storms and some that stand up to or exceed many hurricanes.

I agree - if every low pressure system garners a name, then it does make naming storms less effective.

A large winter ocean storm is not just a rainy day. I live with these beasties and we take them quite seriously.

TWC piloting the naming of winter storms can be checked for consistency and relative risks.



Member Since: Posts: Comments:


Several hours old , but looks like a broad circulation in the SW Caribbean.
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Quoting EricSpittle:

I am curious as to what exactly this does to corrupt science? Instead of radar are we now getting comic-sans font saying "Athena?"

Sure, it's probably stupid for them to name storms without the help of the NWS, but it seems everyone is acting like somehow this changes anything. It doesn't change a bit other than to give newscasters something to call a storm other than a noreaster. Why all the whining about it? How does it actually affect any of you, or this website?

Personally I think it's not a half bad idea, even if they give names to storms that maybe don't "deserve" them the same happens with hurricanes. Better than "that storm that happened three months ago... no, not that one, the other one" when referring to a significant weather event.


But it DOES change something ... it depreciates the meaning of naming storms that really matter. This noreaster is just a piff compared to Sandy or other tropical events.

Too, television is generally vulgar and appeals to vulgar people. I avoid people that watch it, TTYTT. The idea that TV related people would suppose that they may presume to make this move, even in a pop-culture sense, is also offensive and ghastily pretentious.

Ugh!~
Member Since: May 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 437
12.5N/78W looks interesting, maybe a little "twist" in the clouds.Link
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For my part, I will refuse to refer to names given to storms by TWC. I will call them Nor'easters or coastal storms as the NWS, our official source, does. I just disagree with the whole idea. Way too subjective, and more for marketing than scientific purposes.

1-2 inches on the ground in my yard right now, quite a nice surprise as we weren't really expected to get anything accumulating. Funny thing is we'll be pushing 70F this weekend.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 82 Comments: 7566
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Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting fsumet:
If they wanted the NWS to go along with them, it would have helped if they at least had a conversation with them beforehand.


Bruised egos and turf wars are just no fun, eh?

If I was at the NWS I would look at TWC project as a free pilot that you don't have to justify, pay for, or write reports on.

Especially, since they are going to do it anyway.

In a year or two you can still evaluate whether it is working or not and write a kick-butt scientific paper - without any administrative overhead or sitting through endless meetings.

A public agency getting huffy about a private concern that they have no direct jurisdiction over isn't going to land anywhere good.

There are people in both organizations that know each other pretty well and a little smoothing over would be a healthy move now on both sides.

But I wouldn't count on that happening.



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coastal jersey near toms river

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Quoting riblet2000:
I know there already has been a lot of talk about TWC's storm naming but really, this is merely a way for them to brand and market winter storms, not some "safety program". It's one thing for the Weather Service to name tropical storms--they are the official source for weather information in the US--but a private commercial entity doing it smacks of blatant marketing and commercialism. Having this place carrying water for it is just sad...shows how easily money corrupts science. Prior to TWC's purchase this was a trusted independent site. Now I'm not so sure.

I am curious as to what exactly this does to corrupt science? Instead of radar are we now getting comic-sans font saying "Athena?"

Sure, it's probably stupid for them to name storms without the help of the NWS, but it seems everyone is acting like somehow this changes anything. It doesn't change a bit other than to give newscasters something to call a storm other than a noreaster. Why all the whining about it? How does it actually affect any of you, or this website?

Personally I think it's not a half bad idea, even if they give names to storms that maybe don't "deserve" them the same happens with hurricanes. Better than "that storm that happened three months ago... no, not that one, the other one" when referring to a significant weather event.
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Quoting tornadodude:
Texas Panhandle Saturday, may have to make a drive out there



fat cape
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coastal jersey near atlantic city

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239 TropicalAnalystwx13: Winter Storm Athena is pulling a lot of cold air down on its backside. We never made it to 50*F yesterday and have barely made it there today. Freeze warnings are in effect here tonight as we should dip into the low to mid 30s.

Getting chills from the revenant of the Gulf of Alaska "nor'easter" you pointed out in blog2285page6comment279 (the satellite-image link there is now expired)
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Quoting TomballTXPride:

Where are you going with that, Cody?

Depends on his response.
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 112 Comments: 31336
Jim Cantore‏@JimCantore

#snow/ wind winners thus far: NEW BRITAIN, CT 4.8" 420 PM AMATEUR RADIO 6 WSW CUTTYHUNK 76mph 300 PM MESONET via NWS Taunton
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WINTER WEATHER UPDATE

_________________________________

Winter Storm ATHENA



Click for a bigger pic for details....

I'm now working on the huge west US snowstorm...maybe Brutus
Member Since: April 23, 2011 Posts: 104 Comments: 14870
Quoting SyriboTigereyes:

The biggest problem I'm having is that I have not been able to get through to my doctors offices (Any of them) in a week. And I need to see him on Monday as I have two prescriptions I need to get that day and have them filled. But I literally can't get through to anyone, and it's freaking me out. I will be in the ER if I am not able to get these filled.. I've never experienced a situation like this before. And they are not medications I can just go to any doctor, not even my primary care doctor, to get.

Right now, I'm starting to not even care about our power because all I can think about is this. And all of the other people going through the same problems. Doctors offices not open, not having enough gas to get there, not able to get their medications or treatment. I haven't been able to get any procedures either this week or last, and I usually go every week or two. Sandy is the gift that keeps on giving.
Sorry to hear that. Try to talk to your pharmacist and explain the problems getting ahold of the doctor. They may give you a couple of pills to hold you over. It happened down here after a hurricane. Especially if the medication is the type you should not be without.
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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