Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Sandy by the numbers: trying to comprehend a stunning disaster
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 7:19 PM GMT on November 01, 2012 +63
The immensity of the impact of Superstorm Sandy on the Eastern U.S. is difficult to comprehend, and the scenes of devastation coming from the impact zone are stunning and heart-wrenching. To help understand the extraordinary scale of this historic storm, I've put together a list of notable statistics from Sandy:

Death toll: 160 (88 in the U.S., 54 in Haiti, 11 in Cuba)

Damage estimates: $10 - $55 billion

Power outages: 8.5 million U.S. customers, 2nd most for a natural disaster behind the 1993 blizzard (10 million)

Maximum U.S. sustained winds: 69 mph at Westerly, RI

Peak U.S. wind gusts: 90 mph at Islip, NY and Tompkinsville, NJ

Maximum U.S. storm surge: 9.45', Bergen Point, NJ 9:24 pm EDT October 29, 2012

Maximum U.S. Storm Tide: 14.60', Bergen Point, NJ, 9:24 pm EDT October 29, 2012

Maximum significant wave height: 33.1' at the buoy east of Cape Hatteras, NC (2nd highest: 32.5' at the Entrance to New York Harbor)

Maximum U.S. rainfall: 12.55", Easton, MD

Maximum snowfall: 36", Richwood, WV

Minimum pressure: 945.5 mb, Atlantic City, NJ at 7:24 pm EST, October 29, 2012. This is the lowest pressure measured in the U.S., at any location north of Cape Hatteras, NC (previous record: 946 mb in the 1938 hurricane on Long Island, NY)

Destructive potential of storm surge: 5.8 on a scale of 0 to 6, highest of any hurricane observed since 1969. Previous record: 5.6 on a scale of 0 to 6, set during Hurricane Isabel of 2003.

Diameter of tropical storm-force winds at landfall: 945 miles

Diameter of ocean with 12' seas at landfall: 1500 miles


Figure 1. The Visible Infrared Imaging Radiometer Suite (VIIRS) on the Suomi NPP satellite acquired this image of Superstorm Sandy around 3:35 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time (7:35 Universal Time) on October 30. This image is from the “day-night band†on VIIRS, which detects light wavelengths from green to near-infrared. The full Moon lit up the tops of the clouds. Image credit: NASA.



Figure 2. Preliminary death and damage statistics for Sandy as compiled by Wikipedia on November 1, 2012.



Figure 3. Precipitation from Superstorm Sandy for the 7-day period ending at 8 am EDT Thursday, November 1, 2012. Image credit: NOAA/NWS/AHPS.



Figure 4. Top five weather-related power outages in the U.S.



Figure 5. Strong winds from Sandy blow snow in West Virginia on October 30, 2012. Image credit: Beau Dodson


Sandy's snows
Several cities set records for snowiest October day on record during Sandy: Elkin, WV (7", previous record, 4.6" in 1917) and Bluefield (4.7", previous record 3.2" in 1993.) Heavy snows caused roof collapses in West Virginia, and snows of two feet or more fell in four states--West Virginia, Tennessee, Maryland, and Virginia. However, Sandy fell short of setting the all-time record for snowfall from a hurricane. The Vermont Journal estimated that the Snow Hurricane of 1804 dumped up to 4 feet of snow in Vermont.

36" Richwood, WV
34" Mount Leconte, TN
34" Sevier, TN
33" Clayton, WV
32" Snowshoe, WV
29" Quinwood, WV
28" Frostburg, WV
28" Davis, WV
28" Huttonsville, WV
28" Flat Top, WV
26" Redhouse, MD
26" Garret, MD
26" Craigsville, WV
24" Oakland, MD
24" Alpine Lake, WV
24" Nettie, WV
24" Norton, VA
24" Quinwood, WV
24" Alexander, WV

Links
Impressive loop of 1-minute visible satellite imagery spanning 6 days of Sandy's life.

A one-day time lapse video from a New York City webcam showing Sandy's impact on the city. It's eerie to see the city suddenly plunged into darkness.

First round of damage assessment aerial imagery collected by NOAA's National Geodetic Survey on Oct. 31 along the New Jersey coast.


Figure 6. Flooding in Haiti from Hurricane Sandy. Image credit: The Lambi Fund of Haiti.

Charities mobilize for Sandy
The outpouring of charitable donations in the wake of the devastation wrought by Hurricane Sandy has been one of the bright spots in the gloomy aftermath of the storm. The main owners of The Weather Channel have agreed to match donations of up to $1 million to the American Red Cross, if you text SANDY to 90999 ($10). I also recommend my favorite disaster relief charity, Portlight.org. They are focusing their response efforts exclusively on the post-Sandy neeeds of people with disabilities.Check out the Portlight blog to see what they're up to; donations are always needed.

Sandy's greatest devastation occurred in Haiti, where rains of up to 20 inches in 24 hours unleashed rampaging flood waters that killed at least 54, left 200,000 homeless, wiped out thousand of acres of crops, and killed massive numbers of livestock. For impoverished families in Haiti still struggling to recover from the earthquake in 2010 and Hurricane Isaac in August, Sandy was devastating.  These crops are the very essence of rural Haitian’s livelihoods, and there are fears widespread starvation will result. A disaster relief charity in Haiti that I've contributed to for many years, The Lambi Fund of Haiti, is seeking donations to help farmers purchase local seeds so that they can replant their crops in the wake of this latest terrible Haitian catastrophe.

Jeff Masters
Hurricane Sandy - Davis, W.V. (beaudodson)
Hurricane Sandy, Davis, W.V. - photos taken by Beau Dodson
Hurricane Sandy - Davis, W.V.
We Survived (teach50)
Everyone has seen photos of the damage inflicted by Hurricane Sandy that destroyed New Jersey, NYC, & Long Island as well as other areas on the East Coast. I am finally back on line after 4 days without power. It has been a long ordeal. My block was extremely fortunate. We didn't have any trees fall and no flooding but the entire area is devastated. This is a photo of a tree that fell between the street, smashed, the car, and blew out the tires. No one was hurt.
We Survived
Categories: Hurricane
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301. Manhattancane 5:11 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


yes. true but florida can take a cat 5 better than new york can take a cat 1


This was a 5.8 out of 6 on the surge scale, a surge more like a major hurricane's that hit in an abnormal westerly direction. And really? 156 mph winds and 20 feet of water in Miami vs a cat 1 at new york? And just curious, at what speed do regular windows blowout if nothing hits them?
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302. kabloie 5:17 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting CaicosRetiredSailor:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Homeowners in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut will save thousands of dollars in insurance costs after several state governors declared that Sandy did not make landfall as a hurricane, exempting them from insurers' hurricane deductibles.


Do you think they are supported by the fact of the lack of an actual hurricane warning? All I know is the wunderground map for Sandy never showed anything of the sort north of NC.

Not that everyone wasn't shouting "Hurricane!"
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303. uncwhurricane85 5:23 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting Manhattancane:


This was a 5.8 out of 6 on the surge scale, a surge more like a major hurricane's that hit in an abnormal westerly direction. And really? 156 mph winds and 20 feet of water in Miami vs a cat 1 at new york? And just curious, at what speed do regular windows blowout if nothing hits them?


yes really, the only thing that made this so bad was its size...a cat 5 hurricanes winds are over an area so small bc stronger hurricanes are much tighter together, so 155mph winds blowing over and area 20 miles wide vs 75 -100mph gusts over 300 miles pushes way more water. hurricane andrew perfect example, no much damage in downtown while 20 miles south where it made landfall complete destruction. If a noreaster of this size happend in florida the same would have happened as it did in NY/NJ.....not sure about the window thing but wilma blew quite a few out in dt ft. lauderdale with winds of 115 so i guess that depends on the building and how it was built.
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304. SandyCheeks13 5:27 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Guys, are the models showings a Nor'Easter from the south or a Tropical System in the Caribbean?
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305. LostTomorrows 5:34 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting SandyCheeks13:
Guys, are the models showings a Nor'Easter from the south or a Tropical System in the Caribbean?


Maybe a tropical system in the Caribbean that becomes a Nor'easter?
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306. uncwhurricane85 5:37 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting SandyCheeks13:
Guys, are the models showings a Nor'Easter from the south or a Tropical System in the Caribbean?


both reliable models are showing a week/decent noreaster in the wed/thursday time frame....gfs is weaker/warmer off the coast, while euro is showing stronger wrapping in the cold with some snow on the back side
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307. KoritheMan 5:53 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting SandyCheeks13:
Guys, are the models showings a Nor'Easter from the south or a Tropical System in the Caribbean?


That Nor'easter doesn't come from the Caribbean, although the GFS has been inconsistently hinting at long-range formation in roughly the same location as Sandy.
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308. SandyCheeks13 5:56 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


both reliable models are showing a week/decent noreaster in the wed/thursday time frame....gfs is weaker/warmer off the coast, while euro is showing stronger wrapping in the cold with some snow on the back side


Ah thanks.
This could be extremely bad for the Mid-Atlantic and the Northeast...
I love snow but still, bad for the ones who are out of power already and having several impacts.
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309. KoritheMan 5:57 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
310. bxkid 6:04 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Just wondering why Delaware was spared such damage from Sandy? The beaches seem to have limited damage compared to New Jersey!
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311. KoritheMan 6:28 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting bxkid:
Just wondering why Delaware was spared such damage from Sandy? The beaches seem to have limited damage compared to New Jersey!


Offshore flow.
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312. HadesGodWyvern 6:52 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
India Meteorological Department
Tropical Cyclone Advisory #27
WELL MARKED LOW PRESSURE AREA, FORMER NILAM (BOB02-2012)
8:30 AM IST November 2 2012
=============================================

At 3:00 AM UTC, Yesterday's depression over southern Interior Karnataka and neighborhood weakened into a well marked low pressure area and now lays over northern Interior Karnataka and adjoining Rayalaseema. The system would likely weaken further during the next 12 hours.

This is the final tropical cyclone advisory from the India Meteorological Department
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313. bigwes6844 9:27 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting Grothar:


It is trying but it will not make it all the way down or even to the west. It could strengthen some though.

Here is the ECMWF image at 168 hours'



Gro is that valerie and william? or william and alpha?
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314. bigwes6844 9:31 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
kinda funny to say but we may see the greek alphabet this year.
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315. BahaHurican 10:04 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Good morning all.

It's currently around 66 degrees and calm here in Nassau, which is a genuine WINTER type temperature in this here place... WHOOhoo!!!

Sandy seems to have put paid to the stiflingly hot and humid weather we experienced throughout September and October. I'm pulling out my jacket / coat with pleasure this morning...

Of greater concern is how residents of the storm-torn NE US will cope with plummeting temperatures.
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316. MahFL 10:06 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting bxkid:
Just wondering why Delaware was spared such damage from Sandy? The beaches seem to have limited damage compared to New Jersey!


Because the center of Sandy came ashore north of Delaware, so the winds blew the tide/surge out to sea, not inland like in NJ northwards.
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317. MahFL 10:08 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting BahaHurican:
Good morning all.

It's currently around 66 degrees and calm here in Nassau, which is a genuine WINTER type temperature in this here place... WHOOhoo!!!

Sandy seems to have put paid to the stiflingly hot and humid weather we experienced throughout September and October. I'm pulling out my jacket / coat with pleasure this morning...

Of greater concern is how residents of the storm-torn NE US will cope with plummeting temperatures.


Some will die.
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318. BahaHurican 10:15 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting Grothar:


I don't know if you are familiar with the area, but Staten Island is pretty hilly, but if I remember, most of the east coast of the island would have probably been a Zone A area. Most should have evacuated, but the devastation was far inland. Staten Island is quite large. I don't think they are getting the help they need fast enough.
IMO part of the problem with Staten Island is that the access points are in areas that have also been heavily impacted by the storm. Even getting in and out of there is a challenge from either NJ or NY...
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319. aislinnpaps 10:28 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Morning/Evening Baha and MahFL. It's 65 degrees here in my part of Louisiana, though we're to reach 84 today.
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320. LargoFl 10:42 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Good morning folks..................
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321. LargoFl 10:47 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
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322. LargoFl 10:49 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
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323. ncstorm 11:06 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Good Morning..

the models still have not back off.. a east coast noreaster.

00z CMC






00z Euro


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324. barbamz 11:10 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Good morning from windy Germany. I'm so sorry to read about the continious grim aftermaths of Sandy.

Aside, this is what I've just found on "Science Daily":

Why Seas Are Rising Ahead of Predictions:
Estimates of Rate of Future Sea-Level Rise May Be Too Low

ScienceDaily (Nov. 1, 2012) %u2014
Sea levels are rising faster than expected from global warming, and University of Colorado geologist Bill Hay has a good idea why. The last official IPCC report in 2007 projected a global sea level rise between 0.2 and 0.5 meters by the year 2100. But current sea-level rise measurements meet or exceed the high end of that range and suggest a rise of one meter or more by the end of the century.

"What's missing from the models used to forecast sea-level rise are critical feedbacks that speed everything up," says Hay. He will be presenting some of these feedbacks in a talk on Nov. 4, at the meeting of The Geological Society of America in Charlotte, North Carolina, USA.

One of those feedbacks involves Arctic sea ice, another the Greenland ice cap, and another soil moisture and groundwater mining.

More

And another one from Nov, 1th:
Long-Term Sea Level Rise in Washington, D.C. Could Have Significant Impact
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325. aislinnpaps 11:13 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Everyone have a safe and great Friday!
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326. TropicalAnalystwx13 11:38 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Hurricane Sandy's death toll is, unfortunately, up to 170 this morning. That is 98 in the United States, 54 in Haiti, 11 in Cuba, and 2 each in the Bahamas, Dominican Republic, and Canada. Jamaica is also reporting 1 death.
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 92 Comments: 25955
328. KarenRei 11:48 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting barbamz:
Good morning from windy Germany.


Hmm, wonder if it's the same system that's making it howl outside my window here in Iceland!

Quoting barbamz:
Aside, this is what I've just found on "Science Daily":

Why Seas Are Rising Ahead of Predictions:
Estimates of Rate of Future Sea-Level Rise May Be Too Low


Unfortunately, a large portion of the people you're talking to are Americans who don't believe in global warming. And "belief" really is the issue here, because... well, I like to think of the Ganges. It's one of the most polluted rivers in the world. People bury their dead in it, bathe in it, their waste flows into it, trash ends up into it, etc. Yet you see pilgrims adamantly refusing to admit that it's polluted even though you can smell the stench and see trash, chemicals, etc. To them, the river is a goddess; accepting that it's not healthy to get in the waters is just inacceptable, so they deny what's directly in front of their face.

It's simply not acceptable to a sizeable portion of the American population to accept that the burning of fossil fuels is altering the planet's climate. It doesn't matter what data you show them. Even if it's very visible examples.

For example, I try to help people envision how much CO2 their car is emitting by pointing out that the average passenger vehicle in the US emits 4760kg (4.76 tonnes) of CO2 per year (14k miles / 25mpg * 8.5kg/gallon) - well more than the weight of the car, a volume that would take up a cube 186 feet on each side (4760kg * 1000g/kg /22 molar mass ~= 216000m^3). Or to put that another way, a Hindenberg full of pre-industrial air contains 56 m^3 of CO2 (200000m^3 * 280/100000ppmv. With the CO2 your car puts out every year, you could double the CO2 levels in ~3850 Hindenbergs. Every year. If you drive your 25mpg car 14000 miles every year for 55 years, that's 212000 Hindenbergs. That's 212000 of these:

Link


Just from your car. And fuel burned in passenger vehicles is just a small fraction of the CO2 total. And you are but one person in a multitude. Yes, the atmosphere is big. But that's a LOT of CO2.

You can go through hoops like that, putting it in plain, easy to envision terms. But it doesn't make a difference. Because it's not acceptable for them to accept that *they*, all of us, are radically altering our planet around them in a profoundly negative way for humans and other species. They don't want to, can't let themselves, see their car or their air conditioner as hurting the world around them that they care about - and they *do* care about it, the same as everyone else. And so, figuratively, they keep bathing in the Ganges as garbage floats by.

BTW, speaking of melt... here in Iceland this summer, for the first time in recorded history, Snæfell's glacier receded to the point where the peak of the mountain could be seen sticking through. That's Snæfell, literally a place called "Snow Mountain" in a country called "Iceland", the towering snowy cap that's a permanent part of Reykjavík's distant horizon on clear days... now no longer completely a snowy cap in the summer. At the rate it's receding, it's expected to lose it's entire glacier in 20-30 years. I guess they'll have to rename the "Extreme Chill: Undir Jökli" ("Below the Glacier") music festival to "Extreme Chill: Undir Felli" (Below the Mountain) :P Or move to a different glacier... although even our biggest is only supposed to last 200-300 years, and that's based on current melt assumptions, which are probably too optimistic.
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329. wxchaser97 11:56 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
Hurricane Sandy's death toll is, unfortunately, up to 170 this morning. That is 98 in the United States, 54 in Haiti, 11 in Cuba, and 2 each in the Bahamas, Dominican Republic, and Canada. Jamaica is also reporting 1 death.

That is not good, not good at all. Hopefully no one else turns up dead but with all that happened I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the number continue to rise.
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330. Neapolitan 11:59 AM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting KarenRei:


Hmm, wonder if it's the same system that's making it howl outside my window here in Iceland!



Unfortunately, a large portion of the people you're talking to are Americans who don't believe in global warming. And believe really is the term to use here, because... well, I like to think of the Ganges. It's one of the most polluted rivers in the world. People bury their dead in it, bathe in it, their waste flows into it, trash ends up into it, etc. Yet you see pilgrims adamantly refusing to admit that it's polluted even though you can smell the stench and see the trash. To them, the river is a goddess; accepting that it's not healthy to get in the waters is just inacceptable, so they deny what's directly in front of their face.

It's simply not acceptable to a sizeable portion of the American population to accept that the burning of fossil fuels is altering the planet's climate. It doesn't matter what data you show them. Even if it's very visible examples.

For example, I try to help people envision how much CO2 their car is emitting by pointing out that the average passenger vehicle in the US emits 4760kg (4.76 tonnes) of CO2 per year (14k miles / 25mpg * 8.5kg/gallon) - well more than the weight of the car, a volume that would take up a cube 186 feet on each side (4760kg * 1000g/kg /22 molar mass ~= 216000m^3). Or to put that another way, a Hindenberg full of pre-industrial air contains 56 m^3 of CO2 (200000m^3 * 280/100000ppmv. With the CO2 your car puts out every year, you could double the CO2 levels in ~3850 Hindenbergs. Every year. If you drive your 25mpg car 14000 miles every year for 55 years, that's 212000 Hindenbergs. That's 212000 of these:

Link


Just from your car. And fuel burned in passenger vehicles is just a small fraction of the CO2 total. And you are but one person in a multitude. Yes, the atmosphere is big. But that's a LOT of CO2.

You can go through hoops like that, putting it in plain, easy to envision terms. But it doesn't make a difference. Because it's not acceptable for them to accept that *they*, all of us, are radically altering our planet. They don't want to, can't let themselves, see their car or their air conditioner as hurting the world around them that they care about - and they *do* care about it, the same as everyone else. And so, figuratively, they keep bathing in the Ganges as garbage floats by.
"Bathing in the Ganges". Perfect metaphor--and it would make a great title for a book about the denial of scientific fact.
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11302
331. Matthias1967 12:07 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting KarenRei:


Hmm, wonder if it's the same system that's making it howl outside my window here in Iceland!



Almost.
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334. Neapolitan 12:17 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting TomballTXPride:
Think Volcanoes Neapolitan and Karen.
What about them?
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335. StormPro 12:29 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting Grothar:
Here is the FIM8 models.




Gro,
I know you have been watching this model all season...how much has it been right?
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336. Wiiilbur 12:43 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting guygee:

Just as interesting, here is the beautifully symmetric Mayan base-20 glyph for the number 945:


What you posted there is the Mayan number 14. Although you have the "ones" arranged oddly.
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337. Grothar 12:51 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting StormPro:



Gro,
I know you have been watching this model all season...how much has it been right?


It has performed very well. I do not know the percentage. It is one of the models which I used to show Debbie moving east into Floria and stalling for two days, Isaac, which would move through the windward passage and go to New Orleans when other models had it moving up the East Coast. Also 6 days before this and the EURO had Sandy moving into Ocean County NJ, which I posted as early as Friday of last week. Unfortunately, it was correct.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 58 Comments: 19661
338. StormPro 12:54 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting Grothar:


It has performed very well. I do not know the percentage. It is one of the models which I used to show Debbie moving east into Floria and stalling for two days, Isaac, which would move through the windward passage and go to New Orleans when other models had it moving up the East Coast. Also 6 days before this and the EURO had Sandy moving into Ocean County NJ, which I posted as early as Friday of last week. Unfortunately, it was correct.


I knew about the success of it with Isaac...I lived thru that lol...thanks! A new tool in the box is always better if it is reliable. With the changes to patterns we will need all we can get going forward
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339. yoboi 12:56 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
"Bathing in the Ganges". Perfect metaphor--and it would make a great title for a book about the denial of scientific fact.



do you use fossil fuels??? are you part of the problem??
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340. percylives 1:01 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting KarenRei:


Hmm, wonder if it's the same system that's making it howl outside my window here in Iceland!




For example, I try to help people envision how much CO2 their car is emitting by pointing out that the average passenger vehicle in the US emits 4760kg (4.76 tonnes) of CO2 per year (14k miles / 25mpg * 8.5kg/gallon) - well more than the weight of the car, a volume that would take up a cube 186 feet on each side (4760kg * 1000g/kg /22 molar mass ~= 216000m^3). Or to put that another way, a Hindenberg full of pre-industrial air contains 56 m^3 of CO2 (200000m^3 * 280/100000ppmv. With the CO2 your car puts out every year, you could double the CO2 levels in ~3850 Hindenbergs. Every year. If you drive your 25mpg car 14000 miles every year for 55 years, that's 212000 Hindenbergs. That's 212000 of these:




Karen, when I give a talk on CO2 added to the atmosphere from fossil fuels I use the numbers from a single gallon of gasoline. That produces approximately 20 pounds of CO2 which at standard temperature and pressure fills a bag of about 160 cubic feet. And that just happens to be close to my size standing with my arms extended. I do my little circle to show the audience that volume and then tell them that we burn about 3 billion gallons of petroleum per day worldwide so we make person-sized bags of CO2 for a little less than half of the population of the planet everyday. Then I let them know that that does not include the natural gas and, most importantly, the coal.

It appears that the main reluctance to admitting the problem stems from the fact that once you do see it and accept it into your worldview, it requires you to change your way of doing things. Change is what those who don't see the feces floating in the Ganges are really fighting. Storms like Sandy literally blow the feces into faces, making it impossible for those folks not to see and smell. Katrina was my Sandy.

I salute you for doing your part. My best...
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341. AztecCe 1:04 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Are some of the models showing a tropical system in the carribean form then transition into a non tropical/ nor'easter in the mid-atlantic?
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342. Neapolitan 1:12 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



do you use fossil fuels??? are you part of the problem??
We're all part of the problem to varying degrees. And we're happy to have everyone be part of the solution. But if a person can't or won't do that, that's okay; they just need to step back out of the way before they get run over by the wheels of imminent change...
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344. Grothar 1:15 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting AztecCe:
Are some of the models showing a tropical system in the carribean form then transition into a non tropical/ nor'easter in the mid-atlantic?


I don't think so. It seems a pulse of energy will be moving from the midwest and exiting somewhere off the coast of North and South Carolina and moving NE. It doesn't look very strong on the early model runs this morning.
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345. ScottLincoln 1:20 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



do you use fossil fuels??? are you part of the problem??

The entire way of life for most developed countries is based upon the idea of unlimited, cheap energy from fossil fuels with no incentive for clean, sustainable energy. That means that all of us, as a collective, are part of the problem. As such, all of us, as a collective, will be the solution.

Trying to divert the topic away from the issue at hand toward someone whose livelihood uses any amount of fossil fuels ever completely misses the point, and is a loaded question - the implication is that if someone advocating for/against something is doing/not-doing that something, their statements have no merit. Of course this isn't truthful, and in this situation there is virtually no way to live in developed society as it currently exists without using fossil fuels and contributing to pollution and climate change. Although everyone can do their part, to actually make major changes to the predicted outcome, major changes need to be made to the cause.

The replacing of incentives for dirty, limited energy sources and with incentives for sustainable, clean energy competition. Continuation of tax credits for those who choose to mitigate their carbon footprint with wind/solar panels. Free market cap and trade systems. These are the foundational steps to how we can collectively reduce greenhouse gas emissions, extend the lifetime of our energy sources, and mitigate climate change.
Member Since: September 28, 2002 Posts: 3 Comments: 1784
346. Grothar 1:20 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting StormPro:


I knew about the success of it with Isaac...I lived thru that lol...thanks! A new tool in the box is always better if it is reliable. With the changes to patterns we will need all we can get going forward


The FIM9 is also very good.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 58 Comments: 19661
347. AztecCe 1:20 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting Grothar:


I don't think so. It seems a pulse of energy will be moving from the midwest and exiting somewhere off the coast of North and South Carolina and moving NE. It doesn't look very strong on the early model runs this morning.

You're right on the not-that-strong part
138:
Member Since: October 12, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 114
348. atris 1:25 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
We're all part of the problem to varying degrees. And we're happy to have everyone be part of the solution. But if a person can't or won't do that, that's okay; they just need to step back out of the way before they get run over by the wheels of progress...


But what should we do ...I understand for example, that one transatlantic flight per person, on that flight equals the average person driving for a year . But If we use ships it would cause global Cooling. or are we supposed go back to pre 1850's living.

Theres an interesting piece that I remembered that was in The Guardian quite a while ago Link
Member Since: September 9, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 56
349. longislander102 1:31 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Checking in from Massapequa, Long Island, NY. (Well, actually from work in Babylon).

I am thankful I wasn't south of Merrick Road. No damage to my house. I haven't had electricity since Monday night. I have some cash, batteries, and flashlights and gas top stove. I can't complain.

I really curse the media (listening to the radio)for adding to the hype about gas running out. The word of mouth spread quickly, and bingo. Can't find gas along my route to work. But you know what? I know as power comes back, the stations with gas will be able to pump. Just takes time. OMG...the people panicking. Crazy!

Probably the same people complaining that LIPA isn't restoring power fast enough...just so they can sit on their asses and watch TV.

On the other hand, so many people pooring out support to those who lost everything in the surge. One large group of Massapequa moms, who live north of the Merrick road disaster, have opened their homes to anyone who needs to do laundry, charge cell phones, hot meals, or just a cup of hot coffee. They are getting donations together of clothes, or toys, baby strollers, and other items to give to those in need.

Where there is bad, also remember there is good.

Can't believe a coastal storm may head this way....jeez. *faintly lol*
Member Since: August 27, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 60
350. StormPro 1:33 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting sar2401:

This is one time I really hope the models are wrong. Many areas still won't have power in a week, and a cold an snowy low is about the last thing those folks need to deal with. Most models at 7 days have been fantasy land stuff...except for Sandy. I'm hoping that they return to their usual loopy forecasts now.


And they will be without power even longer thanks to their policies... Power restoration workers turned back because they weren't union. Really? Seriously? Link
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 356
351. WatcherCI 1:34 PM GMT on November 02, 2012    
Quoting yoboi:



do you use fossil fuels??? are you part of the problem??
He's answered that question several times. Of course he does just like everyone else but he has stated he does what he can to limit his carbon footprint. If everyone would do the same, we would at least be heading in the right direction.
Member Since: November 7, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 42

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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