Earth's attic is on fire: Arctic sea ice bottoms out at a new record low

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:46 PM GMT on September 20, 2012

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The extraordinary decline in Arctic sea ice during 2012 is finally over. Sea ice extent bottomed out on September 16, announced scientists at the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) on Wednesday. The sea ice extent fell to 3.41 million square kilometers, breaking the previous all-time low set in 2007 by 18%--despite the fact that this year's weather was cloudier and cooler than in 2007. Nearly half (49%) of the icecap was gone during this year's minimum, compared to the average minimum for the years 1979 - 2000. This is an area approximately 43% of the size of the Contiguous United States. And, for the fifth consecutive year--and fifth time in recorded history--ice-free navigation was possible in the Arctic along the coast of Canada (the Northwest Passage), and along the coast of Russia (the Northeast Passage or Northern Sea Route.) "We are now in uncharted territory," said NSIDC Director Mark Serreze. "While we've long known that as the planet warms up, changes would be seen first and be most pronounced in the Arctic, few of us were prepared for how rapidly the changes would actually occur. While lots of people talk about opening of the Northwest Passage through the Canadian Arctic islands and the Northern Sea Route along the Russian coast, twenty years from now from now in August you might be able to take a ship right across the Arctic Ocean."


Figure 1. Arctic sea ice reached its minimum on September 16, 2012, and was at its lowest extent since satellite records began in 1979. Image credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC).

When was the last time the Arctic was this ice-free?
We can be confident that the Arctic did not see the kind of melting observed in 2012 going back over a century, as we have detailed ice edge records from ships (Walsh and Chapman, 2001). It is very unlikely the Northwest Passage was open between 1497 and 1900, since this spanned a cold period in the northern latitudes known as "The Little Ice Age". Ships periodically attempted the Passage and were foiled during this period. Research by Kinnard et al. (2011) shows that the Arctic ice melt in the past few decades is unprecedented for at least the past 1,450 years. We may have to go back to at least 4,000 B.C. to find the last time so little summer ice was present in the Arctic. Funder and Kjaer (2007) found extensive systems of wave generated beach ridges along the North Greenland coast, which suggested the Arctic Ocean was ice-free in the summer for over 1,000 years between 6,000 - 8,500 years ago, when Earth's orbital variations brought more sunlight to the Arctic in summer than at present. Prior to that, the next likely time was during the last inter-glacial period, 120,000 years ago. Arctic temperatures then were 2 - 3°C higher than present-day temperatures, and sea levels were 4 - 6 meters higher.


Figure 2. Year-averaged and 3-month averaged Northern Hemisphere sea ice extent from Chapman and Walsh (2001), as updated by the University of Illinois Cryosphere Today. I've updated their graph to include 2011 plus the first 9 months of 2012.


Figure 3. Late summer Arctic sea ice extent over the past 1,450 years reconstructed from proxy data by Kinnard et al.'s 2011 paper, Reconstructed changes in Arctic sea ice over the past 1,450 years. The solid pink line is a smoothed 40-year average, and the light pink areas shows a 95% confidence interval.  Note that the modern observational data in this figure extend through 2008, though the extent is not as low as the current annual data due to the 40-year smoothing. More commentary on this graph is available at skepticalscience.com.

When will the Arctic be ice-free in summer?
So, when will Santa's Workshop need to be retrofitted with pontoons to avoid sinking to the bottom of the Arctic Ocean in summer? It's hard to say, since there is a large amount of natural variability in Arctic weather patterns. Day et al. (2012) found that 5 to 31% of the changes in Arctic sea ice could be due to natural causes. However, the sea ice at the summer minimum has been declining at a rate of 12% per decade, far in excess of the worst-case scenario predicted in the 2007 IPCC report. Forecasts of an ice-free Arctic range from 20 - 30 years from now to much sooner. Just this week, Dr. Peter Wadhams of Cambridge University predicted that the Arctic will be ice-free in summer within four years. A study by Stroeve et al. (2012), using the updated models being run for the 2014 IPCC report, found that "a seasonally ice-free Arctic Ocean within the next few decades is a distinct possibility." Of the 21 models considered, 2022 was the earliest date that complete Arctic sea ice occurred in September.


Video 1. A powerful storm wreaked havoc on the Arctic sea ice cover in August 2012. This visualization shows the strength and direction of the winds and their impact on the ice: the red vectors represent the fastest winds, while blue vectors stand for slower winds. According to NSIDC, the storm sped up the loss of the thin ice that appears to have been already on the verge of melting completely.Video credit: NASA.

But Antarctic sea ice is growing!
It's a sure thing that when Arctic sea ice hits new record lows, global warming contrarians will attempt to draw attention away from the Arctic by talking about sea ice around Antarctica. A case in point is an article that appeared in Forbes on Wednesday by James Taylor. Mr. Taylor wrote, "Antarctic sea ice set another record this past week, with the most amount of ice ever recorded on day 256 of the calendar year (September 12 of this leap year)...Amusingly, page after page of Google News results for Antarctic sea ice record show links to news articles breathlessly spreading fear and warning of calamity because Arctic sea ice recently set a 33-year low. Sea ice around one pole is shrinking while sea ice around another pole is growing. This sure sounds like a global warming crisis to me."

This analysis is highly misleading, as it ignores the fact that Antarctica has actually been warming in recent years. In fact, the oceans surrounding Antarctica have warmed faster than the global trend, and there has been accelerated melting of ocean-terminating Antarctic glaciers in recent years as a result of warmer waters eating away the glaciers. There is great concern among scientists about the stability of two glaciers in West Antarctica (the Pine Island and Thwaites Glaciers) due the increase in ocean temperatures. These glaciers may suffer rapid retreats that will contribute significantly to global sea level rise.

Despite the warming going on in Antarctica, there has been a modest long-term increase in Antarctic sea ice in recent decades. So, how can more sea ice form on warmer ocean waters? As explained in an excellent article at skepticalscience.com, the reasons are complex. One reason is that the Southern Ocean consists of a layer of cold water near the surface and a layer of warmer water below. Water from the warmer layer rises up to the surface, melting sea ice. However, as air temperatures warm, the amount of rain and snowfall also increases. This freshens the surface waters, leading to a surface layer less dense than the saltier, warmer water below. The layers become more stratified and mix less. Less heat is transported upwards from the deeper, warmer layer. Hence less sea ice is melted (Zhang 2007). As the planet continues to warm, climate models predict that the growth in Antarctic sea ice will reverse, as the waters become too warm to support so much sea ice.


Figure 4. Surface air temperature over the ice-covered areas of the Southern Ocean surrounding Antarctica (top), and sea ice extent, observed by satellite (bottom). Image credit: (Zhang 2007).

Commentary: Earth's attic is on fire
To me, seeing the record Arctic sea ice loss of 2012 is like discovering a growing fire burning in Earth's attic. It is an emergency that requires immediate urgent attention. If you remove an area of sea ice 43% the size of the Contiguous U.S. from the ocean, it is guaranteed to have a significant impact on weather and climate. The extra heat and moisture added to the atmosphere as a result of all that open water over the pole may already be altering jet stream patterns in fall and winter, bringing an increase in extreme weather events. This year's record sea ice loss also contributed to an unprecedented melting event in Greenland. Continued sea ice loss will further increase melting from Greenland, contributing to sea level rise and storm surge damages. Global warming doubters tell us to pay attention to Earth's basement--the Antarctic--pointing out (incorrectly) that there is no fire burning there. But shouldn't we be paying attention to the steadily growing fire in our attic? The house all of humanity lives on is on fire. The fire is certain to spread, since we've ignored it for too long. It is capable of becoming a raging fire that will burn down our house, crippling civilization, unless we take swift and urgent action to combat it.

References
Funder, S. and K.H. Kjaer, 2007, "A sea-ice free Arctic Ocean?", Geophys. Res. Abstr. 9 (2007), p. 07815.

Kinnard et al., 2011, "Reconstructed changes in Arctic sea ice over the past 1,450 years".

Walsh, J.E and W.L.Chapman, 2001, "Twentieth-century sea ice variations from observational data", Annals of Glaciology, 33, Number 1, January 2001, pp. 444-448.

Related info
Half of the polar ice cap is missing: Arctic sea ice hits a new record low. September 6, 2012 blog post
Wunderground's Sea Ice page

Jeff Masters and Angela Fritz

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759. LargoFl
4:50 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:
Ok apparently this is:

Our last little monsoon event last week as seen from my backyard at sunset, shot with a Canon G11, and no tweaks to the color or exposure

from Christopher Carney of the National Weather Service in Tuscon, Arizona.



amazing pic there.
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
758. LargoFl
4:50 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
canadians are going to be in for a blustery,rainy few days when 94L gets up there huh.............
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
757. GeorgiaStormz
4:48 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
Ok apparently this is:

Our last little monsoon event last week as seen from my backyard at sunset, shot with a Canon G11, and no tweaks to the color or exposure

from Christopher Carney of the National Weather Service in Tuscon, Arizona.



Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
756. LargoFl
4:48 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
Quoting Tropicsweatherpr:
12z GFS develops on long range in GOM and Central Atlantic.

Link
..yes going to be an interesting week ahead
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
755. Tropicsweatherpr
4:47 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
12z GFS develops on long range in GOM and Central Atlantic.

Link
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14921
754. LargoFl
4:47 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
wonder if that blob/wave under cuba will make it into the gulf?..............................
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
753. Slamguitar
4:46 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
Quoting LargoFl:
..its down 10% since this morning


That just means the window of development is getting smaller. 94L will encounter colder waters tomorrow.
Member Since: July 2, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1183
752. wxchaser97
4:46 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
I gtg back to class, bye everyone. Nadine just doesn't want to go away, just like me.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7972
751. LargoFl
4:45 PM GMT on September 21, 2012
Quoting CaicosRetiredSailor:
It's official: Maine tidal energy project a first for U.S.
Sep 20, 2012 

Two years ago, Ocean Renewable Power Company (ORPC) demonstrated that its tidal energy concept works. Now, the Cobscock Bay Tidal Energy Project is providing power to the grid for the Bangor Hydro Electric Company in Maine – and it's a first.
 
While it's a relatively small project in terms of power produced, it is the first ocean energy project (including offshore wind, wave and tidal) of any kind to feed electricity to a U.S. electric grid.
now thats a good idea, tidal flows have lots of energy for a certain amout of time, coming in and going out
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
Quoting wxchaser97:
Is it just me or is 94L looking a little better than this morning? At least it seems to be wrapping up more and building some more convection to me.
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floaters/94L/imag ery/rbtop-animated.gif


I agree, 94L is looking better at this point than anytime in it's lifespan.
Member Since: July 2, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1183
It's official: Maine tidal energy project a first for U.S.
Sep 20, 2012

Two years ago, Ocean Renewable Power Company (ORPC) demonstrated that its tidal energy concept works. Now, the Cobscock Bay Tidal Energy Project is providing power to the grid for the Bangor Hydro Electric Company in Maine - and it's a first.

While it's a relatively small project in terms of power produced, it is the first ocean energy project (including offshore wind, wave and tidal) of any kind to feed electricity to a U.S. electric grid.
...

http://www.smartgridnews.com/artman/publish/Techn ologies_DG_Renewables/It-s-official-Maine-tidal-en ergy-project-a-first-for-U-S-5126.html/
Member Since: July 12, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6069
Quoting wxchaser97:
Is it just me or is 94L looking a little better than this morning? At least it seems to be wrapping up more and building some more convection to me.
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floaters/94L/imag ery/rbtop-animated.gif
..its down 10% since this morning
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
Quoting wxchaser97:

St lunch, is that a church?
It wouldn't be too great if we get a system there.


st lunch is you....

Quoting wxchaser97:

I'm st lunch so I got a little time, something is goning wonder/form there. If we get a system in that area and shear is low then another Rina or storm like that.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
Is it just me or is 94L looking a little better than this morning? At least it seems to be wrapping up more and building some more convection to me.
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floaters/94L/imag ery/rbtop-animated.gif
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7972
down to 50% from 60% this morning..94L
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


you are st lunch?
Can i have some food?

Something is going to wonder there?
Wouldnt that be great, wondering is fun, i wonder a lot.
If something forms there ,that might not be as good.

St lunch, is that a church?
It wouldn't be too great if we get a system there.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7972
Quoting schwankmoe:


and back in the 2000s was there just as much money in tablets as there was in regular computers? of course not. there was interest, and people thought it would be great if it happened, but there were no big profits in it at the time.

now remember that a large-scale 'green energy' economy is likely several decades in the future. also remember that pretty much by definition there's more profit in fossil fuels than in windmills and solar panels.

people keep confusing current profit margins with imagined possible future profits. hardly worth it when talking about climate scientists and the like being 'in it for the money'.


I never said there was more profit in green energy now, i always stated that it was only when green energy became easier for people to use than gas/coal/oil etc that it would become more profitable, and i dont see a reason to put it off decades into the future when breakthroughs can happen at any time.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
Quoting wxchaser97:

I'm st lunch so I got a little time, something is goning wonder/form there. If we get a system in that area and shear is low then another Rina or storm like that.


you are st lunch?
Can i have some food?

Something is going to wonder there?
Wouldnt that be great, wondering is fun, i wonder a lot.
If something forms there ,that might not be as good.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


Maybe not in the 1990s, but in the 2000s, there definitely was a large interest in the development of tablet computers, especially in technology cirlces.


and back in the 2000s was there just as much money in tablets as there was in regular computers? of course not. there was interest, and people thought it would be great if it happened, but there were no big profits in it at the time.

now remember that a large-scale 'green energy' economy is likely several decades in the future. also remember that pretty much by definition there's more profit in fossil fuels than in windmills and solar panels.

people keep confusing current profit margins with imagined possible future profits. hardly worth it when talking about climate scientists and the like being 'in it for the money'.
Member Since: October 18, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 735
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
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Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


Nothing ever wonders over there, not even people, they just all plod along like robots..... :)

I'm st lunch so I got a little time, something is goning wonder/form there. If we get a system in that area and shear is low then another Rina or storm like that.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7972
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Jedkins01:



Maybe ancient aliens gave baseball to humans...
It looks like a figure at plate swinging a baseball bat. It must be a sculpture of a famous baseball star of some unknown race.

lol
LOL..i can just imagine..the very first NASA guy who saw the pic when rover sent it back..his jaw must have dropped LOL
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 42269
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Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


I dont have any apple products, but i have an apple sticker on my laptop and on my desk...

Come to think of it, i do have 1 apple product, a iPod shuffle i won for being the MATHCOUNTS county winner in 8th grade, mainly only because I live in a highly populated county in Metro Atlanta.
I dont use it becaue it doesnt have a screen.
I'm anti iPhone, pro Samsung Galaxy IIIs, and Motorola Droid Razr MAXX HD, but i like the macbook pro....
So im semi apple....


I'm fine with Samsung and Droid, I see rain coming towards me.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7972
Quoting wxchaser97:

Those are some super high TCHP values, hopefully nothing wonders over there.


Nothing ever wonders over there, not even people, they just all plod along like robots..... :)
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
Quoting wunderkidcayman:
hey guys look at this the TCHP are screaming high


Those are some super high TCHP values, hopefully nothing wonders over there.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7972
Quoting schwankmoe:


but decades before the tablet market exploded, people were not saying 'there's just as much money in tablets as there is in regular computers'. and back in the 90s nobody was able to predict when it would blow up anyways. we look at that in hindsight now.

fossil fuels may start taking a steaming dump pretty soon, mostly out of scarcity (of oil at least, causing a scramble for lessers such as natural gas). maybe green energy will step up to the plate, but fossil fuels from the day will always have been cheaper. oil, back then and even still to a great degree now, is pure money. it's free energy sitting under the earth. the profit margin has always for the most part been huge. i don't believe that type of profit margin will ever exist for green energy.


Maybe not in the 1990s, but in the 2000s, there definitely was a large interest in the development of tablet computers, especially in technology cirlces.
Either way, if we have the benifit of foreseeing this technology before it becomes mainstream, doesnt that give us even more of an advantage?
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
Quoting SherwoodSpirit:


During nearly all my waking moments, I'm either working on or listening to (or both) an Apple product. I work on a Mac Pro at work, I listen to audiobooks on my iPod on my long commute to and from work, and when I'm at home, I'm in front of my iMac.
I do not have a single Microsoft product. I guess that makes me an unabashed Apple fanboy...er... girl. :)


I dont have any apple products, but i have an apple sticker on my laptop and on my desk...

Come to think of it, i do have 1 apple product, a iPod shuffle i won for being the MATHCOUNTS county winner in 8th grade, mainly only because I live in a highly populated county in Metro Atlanta.
I dont use it becaue it doesnt have a screen.
I'm anti iPhone, pro Samsung Galaxy IIIs, and Motorola Droid Razr MAXX HD, but i like the macbook pro....
So im semi apple....

Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
Wait what? 94L crapped out quite quickly. I go to bed and wake up to a completely different system. >_<

Oh well, at least we still have Nadine for the next forever haha.
Member Since: August 26, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 617
Member Since: July 12, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6069
Quoting Jedkins01:


That's probably why I have two iPads and a MacBook :(
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Quoting Jedkins01:


Are you sure about Miami being 28 inches above normal? While I agree 75 inches is indeed above average obviously, I'm pretty sure their average yearly total is around 65 inches, with that said I would imagine their average to date would be higher than 47 for this point in the year?


I use this site for precip averages. It shows average annual rainfall for selected Florida cities.

Link

Here in St Augustine the average annual rainfall is 49.01" and I've recorded 54.93" YTD. It's been all or nothing however as 19.82" fell in June and another 18.6" in August.
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Quoting vinotinto:


Actually, it is quite easy to discuss tropical weather without injecting global warming theory. If there were anything of significance occurring at the peak of hurricane season (or had been over the last week, there would be no room to or interest in discussing that theory. But since there are no impending disasters (which were predicted by Al Gore and all the others subscribing to global warming theory) alas, there is nothing else to discuss!


I actually have great interest in the subject since it is affecting my way of life.
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Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


It will switch when it is easier to use green energy than fossil fuels.

Its just like saying that it was cheaper to buy a laptop than a tablet, and then the tablet market exploded.

Future apples have to be considered, as in any scenario, the thing being used right then will be more profitable than anything else.
Heck, at one point it was cheaper to buy a cold drink than to hire someone to fan you, and then the AC unit was invented....
But before that, in summer, there was big money to be made in selling a nice cold glass of lemonade.


but decades before the tablet market exploded, people were not saying 'there's just as much money in tablets as there is in regular computers'. and back in the 90s nobody was able to predict when it would blow up anyways. we look at that in hindsight now.

fossil fuels may start taking a steaming dump pretty soon, mostly out of scarcity (of oil at least, causing a scramble for lessers such as natural gas). maybe green energy will step up to the plate, but fossil fuels from the day will always have been cheaper. oil, back then and even still to a great degree now, is pure money. it's free energy sitting under the earth. the profit margin has always for the most part been huge. i don't believe that type of profit margin will ever exist for green energy.
Member Since: October 18, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 735
Quoting Jedkins01:


During nearly all my waking moments, I'm either working on or listening to (or both) an Apple product. I work on a Mac Pro at work, I listen to audiobooks on my iPod on my long commute to and from work, and when I'm at home, I'm in front of my iMac.
I do not have a single Microsoft product. I guess that makes me an unabashed Apple fanboy...er... girl. :)
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
I don't think railway travel will ever replace the wagon train. It is inconceivable that a railroad track could cross the continent. The next thing is that some crazy guy will want to build a road that goes from New York to California.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 27210
Quoting captainktainer:


Trying to discuss tropical weather without also discussing the massive changes occurring in global weather that are changing the tracks, intensity, and genesis of tropical storms is like trying to have a deep discussion about traffic patterns without also talking about how the roads are laid out. Any such discussion will be fairly pointless. You've missed the point that if you actually value his insights, you'll also respect that he knows what he's talking about with respect to his field of expertise - weather and climate. I mean, his Ph.D. was on the mechanics by which air pollution is transported throughout the atmosphere by wintertime cyclones; do you expect him to ignore the climate implications of tropical weather or other weather? You're also being rudely dismissive of his expertise and the expertise of the people he relies on for data.

Every time I hear these calls I can't help but shake my head. It's missing the *point*. The point of the blog is to educate and inform about tropical weather and climate. Leaving out massive amounts of information because it makes some people uncomfortable to have their preconceived notions challenged would be acting against the very purpose of educating in the first place.


Actually, it is quite easy to discuss tropical weather without injecting global warming theory. If there were anything of significance occurring at the peak of hurricane season (or had been over the last week, there would be no room to or interest in discussing that theory. But since there are no impending disasters (which were predicted by Al Gore and all the others subscribing to global warming theory) alas, there is nothing else to discuss!
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It's not just the attic that's on fire...

This photo was captured two days ago from the International Space Station and shows the Mustang Complex wildland fires in Idaho. So, if the arctic is the attic then Idaho would be considered, I don't know, like the carpet on the second floor?

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Quoting RTSplayer:


In order to do it consciously, you need to parse your memory into blocks the same way a computer does math, and develop an "address" in your memory for each place value for each group of terms, and then "access" this address to store and retrieve information.

The complexity and difficulty, as I evaluate it, goes up approximately by:

N * M plus (N-1)

Where "N" and "M" are the number of digits in the two numbers respectively, and "N" is the number of digits in the smaller of the two numbers.

The additions scale linearly, which is why there is the "(N-1)" term.

The complexity of 2 by 2 is 5, while the complexity of 4 by 4 is 19, and the complexity of 8 by 8 is 71.


See but i have to actively have all parts in my memory at once, actually thinking the numbers, I am incapable of storing it, "forgetting" about it(still in my memory), and then being able to retrieve it, at least not in the amount of time it takes to do a calculation. So in a 4x4 i am remembering every number at once, becaue nothing particularly sticks in my head to retrieve later.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
Quoting Jedkins01:


Are you sure about Miami being 28 inches above normal? While I agree 75 inches is indeed above average obviously, I'm pretty sure their average yearly total is around 65 inches, with that said I would imagine their average to date would be higher than 47 for this point in the year?

Very strange how some areas in southeast Florida are double what you have had in Naples. I'm pretty sure Naples has got to be the only drier spot like that. I would be mad, things like that in weather drive me nuts as to how it happens. If Florida had mountains that would make sense. However, it's hard to imagine how its possible for southeast Florida to get that much rain while Naples has had so little when there is such a short distance between the two regions with very little elevation change.

I've had around 48 inches year to date so far. The average near here is 52 to 54 inches, so I'm a bit above average for year to date. Prior to June first the year to date was only 6 inches. I've had a whopping 42 inches since June first. It's been more like an equatorial rainy season! But, we needed it. As ground water levels in Central Florida are finally back to normal for the first time in nearly 10 years. All these soaking rains and flooding was needed.



Broward County, which is "connected to Dade county received much less rain. As a matter of fact, the rain on the coastal areas of Palm beach and Broward counties where due mostly to heavy individual rain events, not the normal rainy reason at all.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 27210
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Quoting schwankmoe:
as nea pointed out, there are a great number of fossil fuel billionaires. fossil fuel companies make insanely huge profits, profits that dwarf any green energy company.

so yes, there's a great deal more money on one side than the other.

maybe in the future green energy will be the big moneymaker. maybe. but let's not compare apples to 'possible future apples' here.


It will switch when it is easier to use green energy than fossil fuels.

Its just like saying that it was cheaper to buy a laptop than a tablet, and then the tablet market exploded.

Future apples have to be considered, as in any scenario, the thing being used right then will be more profitable than anything else.
Heck, at one point it was cheaper to buy a cold drink than to hire someone to fan you, and then the AC unit was invented....
But before that, in summer, there was big money to be made in selling a nice cold glass of lemonade.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9760
Nadine:



Member Since: August 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 5628
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


You are like Dr Arthur Benjamin, im working on consistently doing a 4x4 in my head, its ridiculously too hard.


In order to do it consciously, you need to parse your memory into blocks the same way a computer does math, and develop an "address" in your memory for each place value for each group of terms, and then "access" this address to store and retrieve information.

The complexity and difficulty, as I evaluate it, goes up approximately by:

N * M plus (N-1)

Where "N" and "M" are the number of digits in the two numbers respectively, and "N" is the number of digits in the smaller of the two numbers.

The additions scale linearly, which is why there is the "(N-1)" term.

The complexity of 2 by 2 is 5, while the complexity of 4 by 4 is 19, and the complexity of 8 by 8 is 71.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
as nea pointed out, there are a great number of fossil fuel billionaires. fossil fuel companies make insanely huge profits, profits that dwarf any green energy company.

so yes, there's a great deal more money on one side than the other.

maybe in the future green energy will be the big moneymaker. maybe. but let's not compare apples to 'possible future apples' here.
Member Since: October 18, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 735
Energy policy: Follow the money

By Chris Nelder

If you want to know why our energy policy is what it is, and why the transition to renewables is so slow, there’s an easy way to find out: Follow the money.

In energy — as in so many other things — we have the best government money can buy. Our Congress is overwhelmingly dominated by lawyers, not scientists, and we form our energy policy around who lines their pockets, not around a scientific or rational grasp of our energy reality. This is why technocratic nations like China and Germany are kicking our asses in resource planning, energy transition, transportation planning, infrastructure investment, and so on.

Continue reading Energy policy: Follow the money

"The science is clear on climate change, and the data is clear on the future of fossil fuels. In both cases, we have a serious problem on our hands. A long list of internal documents from companies like ExxonMobil and various coal companies, recently revealed, show that these industries know that climate change is real and that burning fossil fuels has everything to do with it, and that they have been engaged in a decades-long campaign to deliberately confuse the public about the facts. The “debate” about global warming, and the debate about peak oil, are nothing but a war by vested interests who want to keep making money at the expense of the public health and ultimately, the fate of the planet."
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting clamshell:


The people behind AGW have stars in their eyes


the people behind anthropogenic global warming are you, me and everyone who pumps excessive amounts of GHGs into the atmosphere. there is no 'cabal' behind global warming. it's a planet-wide effect, caused by the whole of humanity.

the people who have gone out of their way to make this effect known and how it is working are not 'behind' AGW any more than Newton was 'the guy behind gravity'.
Member Since: October 18, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 735

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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