The new hottest place on Earth: Death Valley, California

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 1:18 PM GMT on September 13, 2012

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As any weather aficionado can avow, Earth's most iconic weather record has long been the legendary all-time hottest temperature of 58°C (136.4°F) measured 90 years ago today at El Azizia, Libya on September 13, 1922. One hundred thirty six degrees! It's difficult to comprehend that heat like that could exist on our planet. For 90 years, no place on Earth has come close to beating the unbelievable 136 degree reading from Al Azizia, and for good reason--the record is simply not believable. But Earth's mightiest weather record has been officially cast down. Today, the official arbiter of Earth's weather records, the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), announced that the all-time heat record held for exactly 90 years by El Azizia in Libya "is invalid because of an error in recording the temperature." The WMO committee found five major problems with the measurement. Most seriously, the temperature was measured in a paved courtyard over a black, asphalt-like material by a new and inexperienced observer, not trained in the use of an unsuitable replacement instrument that could be easily misread. The observer improperly recorded the observation, which was consequently in error by about 7°C (12.6°F.) The new official highest hottest place on the planet is now Death Valley, California. A remarkable high temperature of 56.7°C (134°F) was measured there on 10 July 1913, at Greenland Ranch.


Figure 1. The trading post at Al Azizia, Libya in 1923. The photo was taken from the Italian military fort located on a small hill just south of the trading post. It was at this fort that the temperature of 58°C (136.4°F) was observed on Sept. 13, 1922 (used with permission from the family of Gen. Enrico Pezzi).

The story behind the overturning of Earth's most hallowed weather record
Today's announcement is the culmination of a 3-year research effort begun by wunderground weather historian, Christopher C. Burt. His blog post today, World Heat Record Overturned--A Personal Account, provides a fascinating detective story on how the record came to be cast down--and how the Libyan revolution of 2012 almost prevented this from happening.


Figure 2. The new official hottest place on the planet: Death Valley, California. Wide open spaces, infinite views, intensely salty water, mind-boggling heat. What's not to love about this place? Image credit: Wunderphotographer SonomaCountyRAF.

Dead Heat: The Video
Don't miss the 25-minute wunderground video, Dead Heat, a detective story on how the El Azizia record was overturned.

Atlantic tropical update
Tropical Storm Nadine is recurving to the northwest and north well east of the Lesser Antilles Islands, on a track that would likely keep this storm far out at sea away from any land areas. However, Nadine may eventually threaten the Azores Islands or Newfoundland; the models are divided on how the steering currents will evolve next week, and we cannot be sure which way Nadine will go during the middle of next week.

The models predict that a trough of low pressure off the U.S. East Coast may serve as the focus for development of a non-tropical low pressure system on Sunday or Monday, but this low will likely form too far to the north to become a tropical storm. The GFS model has been predicting a tropical wave coming off the coast of Africa may develop next week, but has not been consistent with the timing or location of the development.

In the Western Pacific, Super Typhoon Sanba is an impressive top-end Category 4 storm with 155 mph winds, and is headed north-northwest towards a possible landfall in Korea early next week.

Given the importance of the new world record all-time high temperature, I'll leave this post up until Saturday afternoon, when I'll post an update on the tropics.

Jeff Masters

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797. PalmBeachWeather
3:34 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting LesBonsTemps:


The differences between precipitation in Jupiter and Hobe Sound - 12 miles - continue to be impressive. We have had no appreciable rain (North Hobe Sound) since last Thursday - although it is beginning to sprinkle lightly - and our yearly totals are about average.

Almost every morning when I go out on my bike there are puddles from rains in Tequesta and Jupiter, but never anything north of Hobe Sound.
I think my fingers got ahead of myself, I am not in western Palm Beach county... I am near the Intracoastal. My posts are according to people I work with telling me about the water and the mosquitos
Member Since: October 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5897
796. AussieStorm
3:32 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Foam's up as surfers brave massive murky-brown waves



DIE HARD surfers dodged logs and debris to ride these waves as floodwater deluge hit the coast of New Zealand.

Hardcore surfers are known to travel far and wide in their search for the perfect wave, braving often choppy and dangerous conditions others wouldn't dream of dipping a toe into.

These waves, however, are a different matter altogether.

Three surfers jumped at the chance to ride the torrential swell in Karitane on the south island of New Zealand. Photographer Chris Garden, 30, spotted the unusual sight as he drove along the coastline



The murky-coloured waves were the result of overflowing flood-waters and kicked up a dramatic spray when they broke.

The foam stretched for 100m along the shore and was almost 30m deep in some places.

Garden, who was watching the action from a cliff, told the Daily Mail: "There was a big swell churning up the foam.
We had had a lot of flooding and so flood water had been coming out into the sea. It was all getting mixed up with the sea water and there were also logs floating out through the waves.



"The water is really cold at this time of year too, which doesn't make for very enjoyable surfing conditions. I think the surfers had fun but you wouldn't catch me out in it."

Garden, from nearby Dunedin, added: "In 10 years photographing surfers I have never seen anything like it before. I was driving along looking for some good waves when I came across it."

The surfers rode the waves for about 20 minutes before heading back to shore. He said some were nearly 3m high and the force of the waves washed all the foam onto the shore.

Garden said: “The waves were washing all the foam on to the shore.

"Once there, it all gradually disintegrated. This scene wasn't there very long and I was lucky to catch it."
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15940
795. LesBonsTemps
3:31 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
Residents here in western Palm Beach county are still in a flood watch ever since Isaac... A few inches from an afternoon thunderstorms could cause another mess. Some areas are still flooded, not to mention the huge amount of mosquitos.


The differences between precipitation in Jupiter and Hobe Sound - 12 miles - continue to be impressive. We have had no appreciable rain (North Hobe Sound) since last Thursday - although it is beginning to sprinkle lightly - and our yearly totals are about average.

Almost every morning when I go out on my bike there are puddles from rains in Tequesta and Jupiter, but never anything north of Hobe Sound.
Member Since: August 4, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 157
794. Neapolitan
3:26 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting StormPro:
I have yet to see a real, doable "cure" presented without insults or blog screaming...and they are still not actual fixes. I beg for enlightnment, respectifully, Glen
Oh, you mean "respectfully" as in "Wizard of AGW and flying monkeys"? Certainly no insults there; nothing but the pure enlightenment for which you beg... ;-)

There are dozens of science-based sites that discuss climate change in great detail, and where many solutions to the problem are discussed. Dr. Masters has frequently linked to many of them, as have others. If you haven't yet read of ways we can mitigate the damage we've already done and the even worse damage that awaits us, you may wish to spend some time poking around those sites.
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13579
793. Some1Has2BtheRookie
3:23 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting LargoFl:
..actually the history channel series said much the same thing, we are inbetween ice ages, and we are due for the next one..regardless of what we think or do today..it will surely come and when it does once again..poof we go, or at least, life as we know it today..there is NO argument, its weather history thats all it is, same as the continents are moving and volcano's erupt and earthquakes come..its all inevitable, we can deny it all we want, we can post and post..but we here arent going to change anything....buy stock in longjohns LOL your going to be needing them


I agree with you completely, Largo, that we are between interglacial periods now. Earth's history shows that we go from cooler to warmer and back to cooler climatological changes. There has always been an initiator for each of these changes and they have happened over long periods of time, void the presence of any catastrophic events.

What we are witnessing today is an ever increasing amount of anthropogenic CO2 levels rising in our atmosphere and that this is occurring over a very short geological time period. We know that it is anthropogenic because the carbon in the atmosphere has a carbon signature that comes from the burning of fossil fuels. We also know that CO2 is a potent greenhouse gas. By nature, we would moving towards another ice age in probably another few centuries or millenniums. What we have done is to alter nature and we have done so in a very short period of time. The time allowed for adaptation will be very short and lead to possible catastrophic effects for nearly every life form on Earth. Buy stocks, in heavy winter clothing, if you wish. Cold weather will still be with us in high altitude and high latitude regions of our planet. Buying these stocks, because you fear another ice age is on the horizon, would be an extremely long term investment. Invest as you best see fit, but I think I would consult with a reputable financial adviser on this one before jumping into this investment.
Member Since: August 24, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 4749
792. PalmBeachWeather
3:22 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting LargoFl:
hey GRO we are in for a very wet few days huh..the rivers to our north are just now stopping their flooding..back to flooding they go again huh..whew
Residents here in western Palm Beach county are still in a flood watch ever since Isaac... A few inches from an afternoon thunderstorms could cause another mess. Some areas are still flooded, not to mention the huge amount of mosquitos.
Member Since: October 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5897
791. AussieStorm
3:22 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Just another reminder

I have a new blog on the 2012/13 Australian Bush Fire season. If anyone would like to check it out.
(old format)
(new format)
Take your pic at which format you prefer.
Feel free to have a read and leave a comment if you'd like.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15940
790. HuracandelCaribe
3:22 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Is raining again in PR!!!!
Quoting CaribBoy:
The catl wave could do like this




Member Since: August 12, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 128
789. 7544
3:16 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
the 10% aoi needs to slow down its racing there but the one behind it may be the one to watch as it could get in the caribiean and head close to bahammas things to watch soon dont get too bored yet lol
Member Since: May 6, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6862
788. weathermanwannabe
3:14 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Good Morning. Just reminding folks that we are currently looking at the lowest sheer period of the Atlantic season before an uptick in a few weeks.

Really low sheer in the Gulf right now (around the Florida blobs) and in the Atlantic by the wave but no indicators of any significant development at the moment. Just three areas to keep an eye on in the coming days.

Have a Great Weekend.

Link
Member Since: August 8, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 9264
787. ozprof
3:14 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Had some good rain here in Lubbock yesterday. A true winter rain, not just a thunderstorm. I just hope this is not an indication of an early start to winter! I am enjoying nice fresh vegies from the garden and cold weather will quickly put a stop to that. The scenery is nicer in hot weather too! ;)
Member Since: December 4, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 30
786. StormPro
3:12 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting JustSouthofEquator:


Actually, any global scale changes in weather pattern (either GW or ice age) would spell doom to our current civilization. Food production would suffer either way, and most of us would die of starvation. Its that simple.

The question which doom scenario are we headed currently? Based on the data that had been posted repeated in the blog, my best guess is the former scenario.

I am certain that nobody in this blog would want either scenario to happen and it is rather childish to insinuate that bloggers who have been presenting those data somehow wanted for the worst case scenario to happen just for a fleeting "in your face" moment. They would be glad to be proven wrong.
I don't believe I insuated anything other than another point of view would be attacked and removed...its like arguing with a stop sign at times. I understand the science behind "climate change"....I just dont attribute all the causes to man. I have yet to see a real, doable "cure" presented without insults or blog screaming...and they are still not actual fixes. I beg for enlightnment, respectifully, Glen
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 606
785. guygee
3:12 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Poor Jeff Masters. Anyone can see he is trying hard to educate people, but he is facing a brick wall of ignorance. Obviously I don't mean everyone on this blog, but there are enough brickheads to make a wall, and some of them post a lot more than the rest of us. Most of them are very close-minded, so I see no sense in trying to reason with them. What am I going to do, ask them to go read Mikhail Budyko and post a critical essay? I understand that very few people actually have the time but then why bother to make so many posts out of ignorance?

I came up with a few basic science links that I thought were worthwhile reading for anyone who is interested:

Earth Differentiation

Carbon Cycle (from Virtual Chembook)

The Carbon Cycle (NASA)

Milankovitch cycles (wikipedia)


I am off to cultivate the earth.
Member Since: September 16, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 3171
784. CaribBoy
3:05 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
The catl wave could do like this



Member Since: October 6, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6254
783. JustSouthofEquator
3:01 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting StormPro:

Quoting to preserve once the attacks on this began...que to Wizard of AGW and the flying monkeys....


Actually, any global scale changes in weather pattern (either GW or ice age) would spell doom to our current civilization. Food production would suffer either way, and most of us would die of starvation. Its that simple.

The question is, which doom scenario are we headed currently? Based on the data that had been posted repeated in the blog, my best guess is the former scenario.

I am certain that nobody in this blog would want either scenario to happen and it is rather childish to insinuate that bloggers who have been presenting those data somehow wanted for the worst case scenario to happen just for a fleeting "in your face" moment. They would be glad to be proven wrong.
Member Since: June 3, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 190
782. LargoFl
3:01 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
and i thought Gators was all we had here............A sunny Florida beach town may be the last place people would expect to find the remains of an Ice Age creature. Yet that’s just what workers discovered recently in Daytona Beach, Florida. While digging at a construction site there, workers found some unusual bones in the mud. Scientists determined that the bones were from a mastodon, a hairy, elephant-like animal that lived in North America thousands of years ago.

During the last Ice Age, Florida’s climate was not as hot and humid as it is today. It was cooler and drier. Large animals, such as mastodons, saber-toothed cats, and giant sloths roamed the land. Scientists think that the Daytona mastodon lived in Florida at least 13,000 years ago.

Scientists say that the layers of muck in Florida’s ground helped preserve the mastodon’s bones all these years. The muck blocked oxygen that would normally cause bones to rot and decay. For this reason, many prehistoric fossils have been found in Florida. In fact, so many fossils have been found in Central Florida that some people call the region “Bone Valley.”

After the mastodon remains were discovered, volunteers joined the scientists at the dig site to find more pieces of the mastodon. Schoolchildren helped with the search, too. Scientists and volunteers found two tusks, two large vertebrae, teeth, a jawbone, pieces of a skull, rib fragments, and part of a leg bone. They hope to find enough bones to add up to a complete skeleton. The mastodon bones will eventually be put on display at the Museum of Arts and Sciences in Daytona Beach.
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
781. Neapolitan
3:01 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


Here is the link to this article - Winningreen - The Coming of a New Ice Age

Here is what the website is all about - About Us - In other words, this website is all about deception. Evidently, it has some degree of success in doing so.

And, here is what they do - What We Do

In other words, Winningreen is not unlike - The Heartland Institute - Does anyone here agree with The Heartland Institute's past campaigns of disinformation they provided for the tobacco industry. You know, smoking may actually be good for you because it exercises the lungs. - Check your sources!!!
I don't know about you, Rookie, but when I want hard, fast, unbiased, and credible information about climate change, I read debunked, non-reviewed, illogical, non-scientific blather written by elderly non-climate scientists employed by the fossil fuel industry and published on obscure websites run by ultra-conservative lawyers. I don't understand why anyone would want to look elsewhere.

The ignorance, it burns...
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13579
780. LargoFl
2:59 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Ohio ice age history..what WAS it like and what did it do?.......Link
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
779. LargoFl
2:57 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting 7544:
looks like the gom blob wants to go est and the bahamma blob heads west for the weekend both meeting in fl lol rain rain again unless one them tries to ull a fast one
yeah watching that blob in the gulf for sure
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
778. 7544
2:57 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
looks like the gom blob wants to go est and the bahamma blob heads west for the weekend both meeting in fl lol rain rain again unless one them tries to pull a fast one
Member Since: May 6, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6862
777. LargoFl
2:53 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
FLOOD STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TAMPA BAY AREA - RUSKIN FL
1046 AM EDT FRI SEP 14 2012

...A RIVER FLOOD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FOR CYPRESS CREEK
AT WORTHINGTON GARDENS...

.RECENT HEAVY RAINS WILL KEEP THE CYPRESS CREEK IN MINOR FLOOD
STATUS UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

DO NOT DRIVE CARS THROUGH FLOODED AREAS...

STAY TUNED TO DEVELOPMENTS BY LISTENING TO NOAA WEATHER RADIO.

&&

FLC101-150346-
/O.CON.KTBW.FL.W.0026.000000T0000Z-000000T0000Z/
/WRGF1.1.ER.120823T1815Z.120902T1745Z.000000T0000 Z.NO/
1046 AM EDT FRI SEP 14 2012

THE FLOOD WARNING CONTINUES FOR
THE CYPRESS CREEK AT WORTHINGTON GARDENS
* UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.
* AT 10AM FRIDAY THE STAGE WAS 9.1 FEET.
* MINOR FLOODING IS OCCURRING AND IS FORECAST TO CONTINUE.
* FLOOD STAGE IS 8 FEET.
* THE RIVER WILL REMAIN ABOVE FLOOD STAGE FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL
DAYS.
* IMPACT...AT 8.0 FEET...FLOODING BEGINS AT THE RECREATION AREA
ON STATE ROAD 54.
* FLOOD HISTORY...THIS CREST COMPARES TO A PREVIOUS CREST OF 9.7 FEET
ON AUG 11 2004.

&&
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
776. LargoFl
2:50 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting Grothar:
Beware the "blobs of September"



Eviscerated blob.

hey GRO we are in for a very wet few days huh..the rivers to our north are just now stopping their flooding..back to flooding they go again huh..whew
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
775. LargoFl
2:49 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
........GFS has the low in the gulf at 72 hours..............
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
774. Grothar
2:47 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Beware the "blobs of September"



Eviscerated blob.

Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26546
773. LargoFl
2:46 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


Here is the link to this article - Winningreen - The Coming of a New Ice Age

Here is what the website is all about - About Us - In other words, this website is all about deception. Evidently, it has some degree of success in doing so.

And, here is what they do - What We Do

In other words, Winningreen is not unlike - The Heartland Institute - Does any one here agree with The Heartland Institute's past campaigns of disinformation they provided for the tobacco industry. You know, smoking may actually be good for you because it exercises the lungs. - Check your sources!!!
..actually the history channel series said much the same thing, we are inbetween ice ages, and we are due for the next one..regardless of what we think or do today..it will surely come and when it does once again..poof we go, or at least, life as we know it today..there is NO argument, its weather history thats all it is, same as the continents are moving and volcano's erupt and earthquakes come..its all inevitable, we can deny it all we want, we can post and post..but we here arent going to change anything....buy stock in longjohns LOL your going to be needing them
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
771. Jedkins01
2:40 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting TomballTXPride:

I know. So true.



Yeah man, Tampa International airport, which almost every time is a drier site in Central Florida, has recorded a total over 36.00 inches of rain from just June through August. per the NWS. Some areas around Central and Southwest Florida have reported even over 40 inches during this same period. if the HPC had been right all summer we'd probably still be in a drought, lol.

Interestingly enough, apparently ground water levels have finally hit NORMAL for the first time in 10 to 12 YEARS in Central Florida. Apparently we have been struggling with drought more than wet for the last 10 years as I've suspected. As a result, lakes, rivers and ground water have struggled the last 10 years.


Now I know it just didn't feel like it, we were dealing with drought more than anything else the last 10 years. That was on the local news yesterday via them reporting what SWFL hydrologists had to say about it.


Even though this is the rainy season, such high rain totals are above normal obviously even for the rainy season, but in reality when you lack it, it is "normal" because it really is nature balancing out the drought. Besides, for all you city going complainers that don't want your "night on the town' rained out. Rainfall is a beautiful thing, its what makes the earth what is, beautiful and green. All the beauty of forests and wild life would not exist if it weren't for the atmosphere bringing rain. Even flooding is good for a season, and is part of the natural cycle.


Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7680
770. ncstorm
2:40 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
JMA Model



Member Since: August 19, 2006 Posts: 13 Comments: 15738
769. MNhockeymama
2:40 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting TomballTXPride:

I remember that. They had to move the Bears vs. Vikings game to the University of Minnesota.


Which really is how football should be played: outside. TCF Stadium is GORGEOUS.
Member Since: September 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 124
768. Some1Has2BtheRookie
2:39 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting LargoFl:
CHICAGO %u2014 Contrary to the conventional wisdom of the day, the real danger facing humanity is not global warming, but more likely the coming of a new Ice Age.

What we live in now is known as an interglacial, a relatively brief period between long ice ages. Unfortunately for us, most interglacial periods last only about ten thousand years, and that is how long it has been since the last Ice Age ended.

How much longer do we have before the ice begins to spread across the Earth%u2019s surface? Less than a hundred years or several hundred? We simply don%u2019t know.

Even if all the temperature increase over the last century is attributable to human activities, the rise has been relatively modest one of a little over one degree Fahrenheit %u2014 an increase well within natural variations over the last few thousand years.

While an enduring temperature rise of the same size over the next century would cause humanity to make some changes, it would undoubtedly be within our ability to adapt.

Entering a new ice age, however, would be catastrophic for the continuation of modern civilization.

One has only to look at maps showing the extent of the great ice sheets during the last Ice Age to understand what a return to ice age conditions would mean. Much of Europe and North-America were covered by thick ice, thousands of feet thick in many areas and the world as a whole was much colder.

The last %u201Clittle%u201D Ice Age started as early as the 14th century when the Baltic Sea froze over followed by unseasonable cold, storms, and a rise in the level of the Caspian Sea. That was followed by the extinction of the Norse settlements in Greenland and the loss of grain cultivation in Iceland. Harvests were even severely reduced in Scandinavia And this was a mere foreshadowing of the miseries to come.

By the mid-17th century, glaciers in the Swiss Alps advanced, wiping out farms and entire villages. In England, the River Thames froze during the winter, and in 1780, New York Harbor froze. Had this continued, history would have been very different. Luckily, the decrease in solar activity that caused the Little Ice Age ended and the result was the continued flowering of modern civilization.

There were very few Ice Ages until about 2.75 million years ago when Earth%u2019s climate entered an unusual period of instability. Starting about a million years ago cycles of ice ages lasting about 100,000 years, separated by relatively short interglacial perioods, like the one we are now living in became the rule. Before the onset of the Ice Ages, and for most of the Earth%u2019s history, it was far warmer than it is today.

Indeed, the Sun has been getting brighter over the whole history of the Earth and large land plants have flourished. Both of these had the effect of dropping carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere to the lowest level in Earth%u2019s long history.

Five hundred million years ago, carbon dioxide concentrations were over 13 times current levels; and not until about 20 million years ago did carbon dioxide levels dropped to a little less than twice what they are today.

It is possible that moderately increased carbon dioxide concentrations could extend the current interglacial period. But we have not reached the level required yet, nor do we know the optimum level to reach.

So, rather than call for arbitrary limits on carbon dioxide emissions, perhaps the best thing the UN%u2019s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the climatology community in general could do is spend their efforts on determining the optimal range of carbon dioxide needed to extend the current interglacial period indefinitely.

NASA has predicted that the solar cycle peaking in 2022 could be one of the weakest in centuries and should cause a very significant cooling of Earth%u2019s climate. Will this be the trigger that initiates a new Ice Age?

We ought to carefully consider this possibility before we wipe out our current prosperity by spending trillions of dollars to combat a perceived global warming threat that may well prove to be only a will-o-the-wisp.



Gerald Marsh is a retired physicist from the Argonne National Laboratory and a former consultant to the Department of Defense on strategic nuclear technology and policy in the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton Administration. Readers may e-mail him at gemarsh@uchicago.edu




Here is the link to this article - Winningreen - The Coming of a New Ice Age

Here is what the website is all about - About Us - In other words, this website is all about deception. Evidently, it has some degree of success in doing so.

And, here is what they do - What We Do

In other words, Winningreen is not unlike - The Heartland Institute - Does anyone here agree with The Heartland Institute's past campaigns of disinformation they provided for the tobacco industry. You know, smoking may actually be good for you because it exercises the lungs. - Check your sources!!!
Member Since: August 24, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 4749
767. Grothar
2:39 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting kwgirl:
Good morning all. LOL I had to look it up. At first it did not appear in the computer thesaurus, but when I searched all references it came up. To be vituperative is to be highly critical. So I interpret Grothar's comment to mean that the blob has been highly criticized. Am I right Grothar? Best I could do so early in the morning.... for me!:)

Edited: for spelling.


It can also mean to tear apart. I have to admit, I took a little poetic license there.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26546
765. LargoFl
2:35 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR EAST CENTRAL FLORIDA.

.DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHT.

.THUNDERSTORM IMPACT...
A LITTLE MORE INSTABILITY WILL LEAD TO A SLIGHTLY BETTER CHANCE
FOR ATLANTIC SHOWERS TO DEVELOP INTO LIGHTNING STORMS AS THEY PUSH
WEST AT 10 TO 15 MPH...ONSHORE AND ACROSS THE PENINSULA. THE
PRIMARY THREAT WILL BE OCCASIONAL CLOUD TO GROUND LIGHTNING AND
GUSTY WINDS UP TO 35 MPH.

.RIP CURRENT IMPACT...
WEATHER AND OCEAN CONDITIONS WILL PRODUCE A MODERATE THREAT FOR
RIP CURRENTS AT THE BEACHES OF EAST CENTRAL FLORIDA. CHECK WITH THE
BEACH PATROL ABOUT OCEAN HAZARDS WHEN YOU ARRIVE AT THE BEACH AND
ALWAYS SWIM WITHIN SIGHT OF A LIFEGUARD.

.WIND AND SEA IMPACT...
ALTHOUGH SMALL CRAFT ADVISORIES ARE NOT IN EFFECT...BOATING
CONDITIONS ARE LESS THAN IDEAL. NORTHEAST TO EAST WINDS AROUND 15
KNOTS WILL CONTINUE TO PRODUCE SEAS OF 4 TO 6 FEET OVER THE
OFFSHORE WATERS OF VOLUSIA AND BREVARD COUNTIES. WIND GUSTS AROUND
25 KNOTS POSSIBLE IN AND NEAR SCATTERED SHOWERS AND ISOLATED
STORMS. SMALL CRAFT SHOULD EXERCISE CAUTION.

.DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...SATURDAY THROUGH THURSDAY.
WIND SPEEDS OVER THE ATLANTIC COASTAL WATERS ARE FORECAST TO EASE
A LITTLE SATURDAY WITH SEAS 4 FEET. ALTHOUGH BOATING CONDITIONS
SHOULD SLOWLY IMPROVE THIS WEEKEND...THEY WILL NOT BE IDEAL.
MODERATE LONG PERIOD EAST SWELLS...LIKELY FROM TROPICAL CYCLONE
NADINE...ARE FORECAST TO ENTER THE WATERS SATURDAY NIGHT AND
SUNDAY...BOOSTING SEA HEIGHTS TO 5 TO 6 FEET. THESE SWELLS SHOULD
PRODUCE VERY HAZARDOUS CONDITIONS NEAR INLETS DURING EBB TIDES...
AND A HIGH RISK OF RIP CURRENTS AT THE BEACHES.

A HIGHER COVERAGE OF AFTERNOON LIGHTNING STORMS ARE EXPECTED MONDAY
THROUGH WEDNESDAY.

.SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...
SPOTTER ACTIVATION WILL NOT BE NEEDED TODAY.

$$

KELLY
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
764. MNhockeymama
2:33 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting TomballTXPride:

LOL. I wouldn't mind seeing that either. The northeast and Midwest totally got the shaft last year. I have a feeling this winter will likely sing a different tune.


The blizzard in '10 dropped 22" of snow in 24 hours in the Twin Cities and caused the Metrodome's roof to collapse. I was home w/three kids that weekend, hubs and the hockeyboy were up North for a tournament - they only got 2" of snow and didn't believe me when I told them I couldn't keep up with the snow piling up on our driveway. Personally, last winter's warmth (a 60 degree day in mid-January) was AWESOME - loved it, (except for the lack of outdoor ice on the rinks for the hockey kids) and would be perfectly fine if it most winters were the same as last year.

The Halloween blizzard of '91 was horrendous; I would prefer not to have to deal with that kind of snowfall again.

Member Since: September 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 124
763. Jedkins01
2:31 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting washingtonian115:
I saw to chicks with bikinis on and the pluses rise.So I thought the women in bikinis might attract some male attention.And Wahllah!. Oh don't say that..Remember the earth is suppose to get hotter and never see another ice age again thanks to man...


Hmmm, one could argue that that cause for Global Warming as "man induced" means something completely differently then it is traditionally thought of when you throw bikini girls into "the equation", lol...
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7680
762. LargoFl
2:29 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting fireflymom:
The height of the ash cloud has dropped down to 2k after it's 10k yesterday.

that must be so scary for the people who live there huh
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
761. Hurrihistory
2:29 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting lickitysplit:
What was the point of the tour of hurricanes from the past 20 years?
Why must their be a point to it?
Member Since: February 6, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 74
760. etxwx
2:28 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting LargoFl:
looks like texas just might get that rain..good luck


I hope so. The rain missed this part of East Texas yesterday with showers all around us. The pasture is getting a bit dry and the ponds are down a foot. We have a 50/50 chance today. *crosses fingers for luck*
Member Since: September 4, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1487
759. LargoFl
2:27 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting Pirate999:
Funny that article came out of Chicago... Coldest winter in my life was the winter I spent there. And I've lived in some cold places before.
its an amazing piece, the series i watched on history channel said much the same thing..NYC will be under a 2 mile think ice sheet when the next ice age comes and it reaches all the way down into northern georgia geez...florida will have the weather of hmmm nyc..perhaps somewhat colder than that..but our way of living..what we do and have now..goes poof geez..back to the stone age for those left alive then..luckily..it all doesnt happen fast..steadily getting colder,ice sheets and glaciers advanve..food supplies become scarce..probably wars all over the place for the remaining ice free lands..im so glad..i myself wont be around for this..probably none alive right now will..but its coming, when is the only question needed to be answered.
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674
758. kwgirl
2:27 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting washingtonian115:
Lol.Why am I not surprised that the people that plused the comments are all males mmmm.
I plussed it and I am not male, as evidenced by my handle.:)
Member Since: March 28, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1532
757. fireflymom
2:26 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
The height of the ash cloud has dropped down to 2k after it's 10k yesterday.
Quoting LargoFl:
As ash billows out of Guatemala’s 12,346-foot-high (3,763-meter-high) Volcano of Fire, the director of the national disaster agency says officials are carrying out “a massive evacuation of thousands of people.”

The evacuees are leaving some 17 villages around the Volcano of Fire (Volcan de Fuego), which sits about 10 miles (16 km) from the colonial city of Antigua.

The evacuation began after the volcano began spewing lava nearly 2,000 feet (600 m) down its slopes on Thursday.

Member Since: June 5, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 588
755. washingtonian115
2:25 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
I'm currently marinating my chicken in the fridge.Going to fry it up later and it should be lovely.Yum yum!.
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 10 Comments: 17149
754. AussieStorm
2:23 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting LargoFl:
As ash billows out of Guatemala’s 12,346-foot-high (3,763-meter-high) Volcano of Fire, the director of the national disaster agency says officials are carrying out “a massive evacuation of thousands of people.”

The evacuees are leaving some 17 villages around the Volcano of Fire (Volcan de Fuego), which sits about 10 miles (16 km) from the colonial city of Antigua.

The evacuation began after the volcano began spewing lava nearly 2,000 feet (600 m) down its slopes on Thursday.


Eruptions of Fuego volcano in Guatemala forced the evacuation of 33,000 people on 13th September 2012. The eruptions produced ash emissions which were visible in the capital Guatemala City, 75 km away. Pyroclastic flows travelled down the slopes of the volcano and heavy ashfall was reported in nearby villages. Fuego volcano is located 18 km SW of the city of Antigua. On the day of the eruption a magnitude 4.2 earthquake hit 47 km south of the volcano. The explosive phase of the eruption was preceded by emission of a 100 m long lava flow down the flank.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 9 Comments: 15940
752. Pirate999
2:22 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Quoting StormPro:

Quoting to preserve once the attacks on this began...que to Wizard of AGW and the flying monkeys....


Let the real storm begin...
Member Since: August 30, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 173
751. Pirate999
2:21 PM GMT on September 14, 2012
Funny that article came out of Chicago... Coldest winter in my life was the winter I spent there. And I've lived in some cold places before.
Member Since: August 30, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 173
Quoting LargoFl:
CHICAGO — Contrary to the conventional wisdom of the day, the real danger facing humanity is not global warming, but more likely the coming of a new Ice Age.

What we live in now is known as an interglacial, a relatively brief period between long ice ages. Unfortunately for us, most interglacial periods last only about ten thousand years, and that is how long it has been since the last Ice Age ended.

How much longer do we have before the ice begins to spread across the Earth’s surface? Less than a hundred years or several hundred? We simply don’t know.

Even if all the temperature increase over the last century is attributable to human activities, the rise has been relatively modest one of a little over one degree Fahrenheit — an increase well within natural variations over the last few thousand years.

While an enduring temperature rise of the same size over the next century would cause humanity to make some changes, it would undoubtedly be within our ability to adapt.

Entering a new ice age, however, would be catastrophic for the continuation of modern civilization.

One has only to look at maps showing the extent of the great ice sheets during the last Ice Age to understand what a return to ice age conditions would mean. Much of Europe and North-America were covered by thick ice, thousands of feet thick in many areas and the world as a whole was much colder.

The last “little” Ice Age started as early as the 14th century when the Baltic Sea froze over followed by unseasonable cold, storms, and a rise in the level of the Caspian Sea. That was followed by the extinction of the Norse settlements in Greenland and the loss of grain cultivation in Iceland. Harvests were even severely reduced in Scandinavia And this was a mere foreshadowing of the miseries to come.

By the mid-17th century, glaciers in the Swiss Alps advanced, wiping out farms and entire villages. In England, the River Thames froze during the winter, and in 1780, New York Harbor froze. Had this continued, history would have been very different. Luckily, the decrease in solar activity that caused the Little Ice Age ended and the result was the continued flowering of modern civilization.

There were very few Ice Ages until about 2.75 million years ago when Earth’s climate entered an unusual period of instability. Starting about a million years ago cycles of ice ages lasting about 100,000 years, separated by relatively short interglacial perioods, like the one we are now living in became the rule. Before the onset of the Ice Ages, and for most of the Earth’s history, it was far warmer than it is today.

Indeed, the Sun has been getting brighter over the whole history of the Earth and large land plants have flourished. Both of these had the effect of dropping carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere to the lowest level in Earth’s long history.

Five hundred million years ago, carbon dioxide concentrations were over 13 times current levels; and not until about 20 million years ago did carbon dioxide levels dropped to a little less than twice what they are today.

It is possible that moderately increased carbon dioxide concentrations could extend the current interglacial period. But we have not reached the level required yet, nor do we know the optimum level to reach.

So, rather than call for arbitrary limits on carbon dioxide emissions, perhaps the best thing the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the climatology community in general could do is spend their efforts on determining the optimal range of carbon dioxide needed to extend the current interglacial period indefinitely.

NASA has predicted that the solar cycle peaking in 2022 could be one of the weakest in centuries and should cause a very significant cooling of Earth’s climate. Will this be the trigger that initiates a new Ice Age?

We ought to carefully consider this possibility before we wipe out our current prosperity by spending trillions of dollars to combat a perceived global warming threat that may well prove to be only a will-o-the-wisp.



Gerald Marsh is a retired physicist from the Argonne National Laboratory and a former consultant to the Department of Defense on strategic nuclear technology and policy in the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton Administration. Readers may e-mail him at gemarsh@uchicago.edu



Quoting to preserve once the attacks on this began...que to Wizard of AGW and the flying monkeys....
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 606
Quoting TomballTXPride:
HPC 5 day



HPC= way too conservative as always for rainfall totals in Central Florida, lol.
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7680
Quoting icmoore:


I am such a wimp with cold weather anything under 70 is cold :) not quite long john weather that would be under 50 degrees LOL!


It's all it what you're used to :) 11 degrees with no wind is just another cool morning in the mountains. But normally our cool air comes with wind, and then it finally gets cold. Wind chills to 10-20 below are not at all uncommon in a normal winter. Last winter, we had spring for 3 months and now I feel like it's been summer forever... it never used to be in the 90s all through March.

Fall is my favorite season, except I have to think about winter coming soon.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
CHICAGO — Contrary to the conventional wisdom of the day, the real danger facing humanity is not global warming, but more likely the coming of a new Ice Age.

What we live in now is known as an interglacial, a relatively brief period between long ice ages. Unfortunately for us, most interglacial periods last only about ten thousand years, and that is how long it has been since the last Ice Age ended.

How much longer do we have before the ice begins to spread across the Earth’s surface? Less than a hundred years or several hundred? We simply don’t know.

Even if all the temperature increase over the last century is attributable to human activities, the rise has been relatively modest one of a little over one degree Fahrenheit — an increase well within natural variations over the last few thousand years.

While an enduring temperature rise of the same size over the next century would cause humanity to make some changes, it would undoubtedly be within our ability to adapt.

Entering a new ice age, however, would be catastrophic for the continuation of modern civilization.

One has only to look at maps showing the extent of the great ice sheets during the last Ice Age to understand what a return to ice age conditions would mean. Much of Europe and North-America were covered by thick ice, thousands of feet thick in many areas and the world as a whole was much colder.

The last “little” Ice Age started as early as the 14th century when the Baltic Sea froze over followed by unseasonable cold, storms, and a rise in the level of the Caspian Sea. That was followed by the extinction of the Norse settlements in Greenland and the loss of grain cultivation in Iceland. Harvests were even severely reduced in Scandinavia And this was a mere foreshadowing of the miseries to come.

By the mid-17th century, glaciers in the Swiss Alps advanced, wiping out farms and entire villages. In England, the River Thames froze during the winter, and in 1780, New York Harbor froze. Had this continued, history would have been very different. Luckily, the decrease in solar activity that caused the Little Ice Age ended and the result was the continued flowering of modern civilization.

There were very few Ice Ages until about 2.75 million years ago when Earth’s climate entered an unusual period of instability. Starting about a million years ago cycles of ice ages lasting about 100,000 years, separated by relatively short interglacial perioods, like the one we are now living in became the rule. Before the onset of the Ice Ages, and for most of the Earth’s history, it was far warmer than it is today.

Indeed, the Sun has been getting brighter over the whole history of the Earth and large land plants have flourished. Both of these had the effect of dropping carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere to the lowest level in Earth’s long history.

Five hundred million years ago, carbon dioxide concentrations were over 13 times current levels; and not until about 20 million years ago did carbon dioxide levels dropped to a little less than twice what they are today.

It is possible that moderately increased carbon dioxide concentrations could extend the current interglacial period. But we have not reached the level required yet, nor do we know the optimum level to reach.

So, rather than call for arbitrary limits on carbon dioxide emissions, perhaps the best thing the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the climatology community in general could do is spend their efforts on determining the optimal range of carbon dioxide needed to extend the current interglacial period indefinitely.

NASA has predicted that the solar cycle peaking in 2022 could be one of the weakest in centuries and should cause a very significant cooling of Earth’s climate. Will this be the trigger that initiates a new Ice Age?

We ought to carefully consider this possibility before we wipe out our current prosperity by spending trillions of dollars to combat a perceived global warming threat that may well prove to be only a will-o-the-wisp.



Gerald Marsh is a retired physicist from the Argonne National Laboratory and a former consultant to the Department of Defense on strategic nuclear technology and policy in the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton Administration. Readers may e-mail him at gemarsh@uchicago.edu


Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 4 Comments: 39674

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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