U.S. experiences warmest 12-month period on record--again

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 9:04 PM GMT on July 09, 2012

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Thanks in part to the historic heat wave that demolished thousands of high temperature records at the end of June, temperatures in the contiguous U.S. were the warmest on record over the past twelve months and for the year-to-date period of January - June, said NOAA's National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) on Monday. June 2012 was the 14th warmest June on record, so was not as extreme overall as March 2012 (first warmest March on record), April (third warmest April), or May (second warmest May.) However, temperatures were warm enough in June to set a new U.S. record for hottest 12-month period for the third straight month, narrowly eclipsing the record set just the previous month. The past thirteen months have featured America's 2nd warmest summer (in 2011), 4th warmest winter, and warmest spring on record. Twenty-six states were record warm for the 12-month period, and an additional sixteen states were top-ten warm. The year-to-date period of January - June was the warmest on record by an unusually large margin--1.2°F.


Figure 1. This time series shows the five warmest years that the contiguous U.S. has experienced, and how the year-to-date temperature evolved each month throughout those years. The time series also shows the 2012 year-to-date temperature through June, which was the warmest first half of any year on record for the lower 48. The 2012 data are still preliminary. Image credit: NOAA/NCDC.


Figure 2. Four of the top-ten warmest 12-month periods in the contiguous U.S. since 1895 have occurred since April 2011. Image credit: NOAA/NCDC.

Most extreme January - June period on record
NOAA's U.S. Climate Extremes Index (CEI), which tracks the percentage area of the contiguous U.S. experiencing top-10% and bottom-10% extremes in temperature, precipitation, and drought, was 44% during the year-to-date January - June period. This is the highest value since CEI record-keeping began in 1910, and more than twice the average value. Remarkably, 83% of the contiguous U.S. had maximum temperatures that were in the warmest 10% historically during the first six months of 2012, and 70% of the U.S. of the U.S. had warm minimum temperatures in the top 10%. The percentage area of the U.S. experiencing top-10% drought conditions was 20%, which was the 14th greatest since 1910. Extremes in 1-day spring heavy precipitation events were near average.


Figure 3. NOAA's U.S. Climate Extremes Index (CEI) for January - June shows that 2012 has had the most extreme first six months of the year on record, with 44% of the contiguous U.S. experiencing top-10% extreme weather.

Tuesday Webinar on the future of extreme weather impacts on business
I'm presenting a 12-minute Webinar talk on the future of weather-related disasters at 2 pm EDT Tuesday July 10. If you want to register (it's free) and listen in, visit the propertycasualty360.com web site. The title of the webinar is, "The Year-Round CAT Season: Is Your Business Prepared for Increasingly Frequent Severe Weather?"

"New McCarthyism" targets climate scientists
Bill Blakemore with ABC News has an interesting five-part interview with climate scientist Dr. Michael Mann, where Dr. Mann explains how a "New McCarthyism" is targeting climate scientists. I reviewed Dr. Mann's excellent book, "The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars", earlier this year.

A 1 in 1.6 million event?
I originally wrote in this post that "Each of the 13 months from June 2011 through June 2012 ranked among the warmest third of their historical distribution for the first time in the 1895 - present record. According to NCDC, the odds of this occurring randomly during any particular month are 1 in 1,594,323. Thus, we should only see one more 13-month period so warm between now and 124,652 AD--assuming the climate is staying the same as it did during the past 118 years."

It has been pointed out to me that the calculation of a 1 in 1.6 million chance of occurrence (based on taking the number 1/3 and raising it to the 13th power) would be true only if each month had no correlation to the next month. Since weather patterns tend to persist, they are not truly random from one month to the next. Thus, the odds of such an event occurring are greater than 1 in 1.6 million--but are still very rare. I appreciate hearing from those of you who wrote to point out a correction was needed.

Jeff Masters

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971. PalmBeachWeather
5:31 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting allancalderini:
I gotta say the EF5 tornado I am really scare of them in terms of Earthquakes I am not scare of the shaking I am scare of the possible tsunami that comes with it.
I went through the Xenia Ohio tornado April 3rd, 1974 at 3:40 PM...Never forget it. Now I am in south Florida and have been through edges of Andrew in 92, Francis and Jeanne in 04, and Wilma in 05....Give me a hurricane anyday.
Member Since: October 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5932
970. Tribucanes
5:30 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Blob south of Florida worth watching? Are conditions favorable in the area? TYVM to anyone who answers.
Member Since: April 18, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 2437
969. wxchaser97
5:30 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting Bluestorm5:
Thanks. Emilia still strengthening?
No, she has most likely peaked but is maintaning it's strength for the most part.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7959
968. RitaEvac
5:30 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
.
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 9648
967. BahaHurican
5:29 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting txjac:


I think that right now the lack of people making the change is the economy and afforability.

I'm a single parent of two children in college ...three car family with a single income. By the time I pay bills and college costs there isnt a whole lot to put aside for a "new-fangled" vehichle.

All three of us drive used cars, four cylinder of course.

Until things become more affordable or when my kids get out of my bank account then I can think about changing my vehichle.
I'd LOVE to change to EV... but right now buying electricity in the Bahamas is very much not cost effective, since prior gov't placed extremely high tariffs / surcharges on energy usage. Prior to the economic downturn there had been some movement towards the installation of more efficient oil / diesel generators as well as some study of solar energy development. But all that got put on the side by the prior gov't. Basically [aside from the 1/4 billion $$ road project] everything here has been on the European model of cutting back spending along with higher taxes on everybody who uses a car, electricity, water, or who imports anything. Makes it difficult to afford a new, more fuel-efficient automobile. Similarly, a friend of mine was saying minimum installation costs for solar here is $5000+ dollars. Even if you want to kick the $300 / monthly bills, how long will it take u to find that kind of $$ in a recessive economy?
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22576
966. Patrap
5:28 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting wxchaser97:
But if you are anywhere else besides downtown and you walk around then stuff happens... Good thing I don't have to deal with it being in the burbs and not really going south of 8mile rd( detroit border).


Im on Magazine Street Uptown, and can get anywhere in the Metro area in 25 minutes from the Airport to NOLA East so I'm tactically good to go.




Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
965. Some1Has2BtheRookie
5:28 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Deleted
Member Since: August 24, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 4758
964. wxchaser97
5:27 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting Patrap:


Walk more and create green spaces with Internet access and Pubs,..but then again.well, I'm a communicator not a city planner. Thankfully. :)
But if you are anywhere else besides downtown and you walk around then stuff happens... Good thing I don't have to deal with it being in the burbs and not really going south of 8mile rd( detroit border).
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7959
963. weatherbro
5:26 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
I predict Nino region 1 2 will warm-up to around 2.0C by the Aug 15th-Oct 1st timeframe and for the other regions to follow behind it. Every single model(except for the CFS which is central/west based) is going for either an east-based or equally basin-wide El Nino.

I don't think there's a chance we'll see a Modiki El Nino this Fall. Maybe by mid-Winter but the -PDO should prohibit that. I'm not sure what the CFS is picking up on.
Member Since: May 26, 2007 Posts: 47 Comments: 1362
962. Patrap
5:25 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
961. FtMyersgal
5:25 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
It took me four sign-on tries to get in...The same error message I had 2 weeks ago....Anyone else have a problem?


No I'm not having any trouble PBWeather
Member Since: September 16, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 1219
959. allancalderini
5:24 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting PedleyCA:


I gotta go with the EF5 tornado or a Cat-5 Hurricane over the mega-thrust Earthquake. Not afraid of Earthquakes. Respect them. I live in SoCal so very near the San Andreas fault.
I gotta say the EF5 tornado I am really scare of them in terms of Earthquakes I am not scare of the shaking I am scare of the possible tsunami that comes with it.
Member Since: October 15, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 4458
958. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
5:23 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting RitaEvac:


But your doing the same thing basically being on this blog all day. Back in the better times we didn't do this, we were out in the real world


aye

but the World Wide Web has connected us
faster and better then ever before
and has the means to make us all one
we will become selfaware the entire globe
it has already begun
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 175 Comments: 54858
957. Bluestorm5
5:23 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

A minimal Category 4, a mid-grade tropical storm, and a disturbance that should become "Fabio" over the coming days.
Thanks. Emilia still strengthening?
Member Since: August 1, 2011 Posts: 28 Comments: 8041
956. bappit
5:22 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 6096
955. PalmBeachWeather
5:22 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
It took me four sign-on tries to get in...The same error message I had 2 weeks ago....Anyone else have a problem?
Member Since: October 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5932
954. islander101010
5:21 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
area.of.disturbed.weather.off..w.fl.needs.close.att ention
Member Since: September 11, 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 4891
953. VR46L
5:19 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Quoting Patrap:


Poke fun at Cool-ista's mostly.

And have secret Wu Liberal agenda conferences..

Fresca?


I would prefer a camomile tea ...less impact on the environment ..with all that gas ,that is released from drinking soda ,can do ..and it has a calming influence on folk as well
Member Since: March 1, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 6950
951. aspectre
5:19 PM GMT on July 10, 2012
Derived from the 10July12pmGMT (NHC) ATCF data for TropicalStormDaniel:
Its vector had changed from 16.7mph(26.8km/h) West to 14.5mph(23.3km/h) West
MaxSusWinds had decreased from 60knots(69mph)111km/h to 55knots(63mph)102km/h
And minimum pressure had increased from 994millibars to 996millibars

For those who like to visually track TS.Daniel's path...
HI25 is Naalehu :: SAN is SanDiego

Easternmost dot on the kinked line is where TS.Daniel became H.Daniel
Westernmost dot on the kinked line is Daniel's final position as a Hurricane.
The next dot west on the connected line is where Daniel became a TropicalStorm again.
Easternmost dot on the longest line is TS.Daniel's most recent position

The longest line is a straightline projection through TS.Daniel's 2 most recent positions to its closest approach to Hawaii.
9July6pmGMT: H.Daniel had been headed toward passing 236miles(380kilometres) South of Hawaii
(Unlabled dot farthest north of the straightline)
10July12amGMT: H.Daniel had been headed toward passing 336miles(541kilometres) South of Hawaii
(Bottom half of the blob north of the straightline)
10July6amGMT: TS.Daniel had been headed toward passing 325miles(522kilometres) South of Hawaii
(Top half of the blob north of the straightline)
10July12pmGMT: TS.Daniel was headed toward passing 430miles(692kilometres) South of Hawaii
in ~3days17hours from now

Copy&paste 9n161w, hi25, 15.484n155.476w, 14.052n155.114w, 14.217n155.167w, san, 14.4n116.5w- 14.5n117.5w- 14.6n118.6w- 14.7n119.6w- 14.8n120.7w- 14.9n121.7w- 15.0n123.1w- 15.1n124.4w- 15.2n125.7w- 15.3n127.0w- 15.3n128.4w- 15.4n129.9w-15.4n131.5w, 15.4n131.5w-15.4n133.0w, 15.4n133.0w-15.3n134.3w, 15.4n133.0w-12.746n154.57w, 18.911n155.681w-12.746n154.57w into the GreatCircleMapper for more information
The previous mapping for comparison
Member Since: August 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 4860
Quoting Patrap:
I like the Streetcar the Best. Its clanky, wobbly and well..with the ride and view it reminds me of better times.

I walk everyday in Audubon Park around 300 year old Oaks and the Trees talk more than the Humans.
They all have these things stuck in their ears and don't hear a simple Hello, G' afternoon/Morning.

A bear is gonna eat one whole one day I always say.



But your doing the same thing basically being on this blog all day. Back in the better times we didn't do this, we were out in the real world
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 9648
Quoting HurricaneHunterJoe:


Not in Southern California where I live. My electricity provider is San Diego Gas and Electric( Sempra Energy )
My cost's go up with the more I use! The first 400KW is like .06 or .08 per KW and then like doubles after 400KW.
I always thought if ya buy a higher volume you get a better price like at Costco
That's true here too. Thought everybody did it that way.

Quoting LargoFl:
Not to bring politics here but..in GW's first term he added a dollar to every gallon of gas at the pumps..supposedly..to help the oil companies build new refineries..ok..its been how long now?..way over ten years..how many new refineries do you know of..thats been built?....nada that i know of..the dollar went to to you know who's pockets..gas now should be 2.00 something instead of 3.00 something...for people trying to just get by in this life..this really hurts them
Similar things went on prior to 2002 here... huge gov't surcharge on gas, was supposed to be used for road maintenance / building... but then they borrow 1/4 billion $ to "build new roads"... go figure...
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22576




Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
Quoting Articuno:
I wonder what's more scarier:
A megathrust earthquake
or a
EF5 tornado
There's a choice???
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22576
Quoting Articuno:
I wonder what's more scarier:
A megathrust earthquake
or a
EF5 tornado


I gotta go with the EF5 tornado or a Cat-5 Hurricane over the mega-thrust Earthquake. Not afraid of Earthquakes. Respect them. I live in SoCal so very near the San Andreas fault.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting RitaEvac:
I remember in 2003 when I bought my first new car, gas was something like $1.30-35. When I would get gas didn't even need to look at prices, it was not an issue, you knew what it cost to fill up and actually fill up all the way. Now, you gotta look at the actual prices to see where the cheaper gas is. And I no longer fill up all the way, haven't for years. I'm now a gas expert, and had to learn in my mid 20s how to comprehend oil prices cuz gas went thru the roof in 2005 when before never needed to.
Hear hear. I'm still waiting to see gas prices here drop below $5.00 in response to what we're seeing in the US... [you know I am not holding my breath on that one...] I still fill up because it's cheaper to run this car I have on full tanks than on shorter refills. But I make some very serious choices about when I leave home [early] and when I come back[late]; I gotta avoid the heavy traffic periods because otherwise my gas bill would skyrocket. I stay out of the car [no cruising the city] unless I really need it. It seems all the joy of driving has been lost because it's now so expensive to buy gas. It's also true with air travel, where prices have skyrocketed due to fuel costs.
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22576
Quoting VR46L:
I have a Question for all the Global warming posters what do you actually do to save the planet apart from burn electric to post these lectures ? Just wondering


Poke fun at Cool-ista's mostly.

And have secret Wu Liberal agenda conferences..

..slurrrrrrrrrrp..

Fresca?
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
Quoting BahaHurican:
I agree with you on this. [But mainly because that fits squarely within my own conceptualization lol] When did people first develop EVs that had the potential to move beyond mere concept cars? I'm thinking the 1970s were when the general public began thinking about them... so using a similar timeline, by 2020 we should be pretty much off gas vehicles and on to EVs... though I don't remember reading about the kind of entrenched battle against automobiles on a political and socio-economic level that we have been seeing today, not even from train magnates [closest I can think of to the big oil companies of today].

Good conversation.


I'd say that the Nissan Leaf was the first "practical" EV. GM's EV1 wasn't, best I can tell.

As far as thinking about EVs, we had them back in the 1800s and they were fairly popular. Great for getting around town/short distance stuff. They were pushed aside by gasmobiles due to range issues. Early EVs really disappeared when the electric starter was introduced.

When I'm feeling most optimistic I think we'll see significant price/range improvements within the next five years. Boost range 50% to 70% and drop price about $5,000 and we tip.

--

I don't think autos worried trains all that much when they appeared. Long distance driving in a Model T on unpaved roads and with no gas stations was not competition for rail travel.

Member Since: February 22, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1344
I like the Streetcar the Best. Its clanky, wobbly and well..with the ride and view it reminds me of better times.

I walk everyday in Audubon Park around 300 year old Oaks and the Trees talk more than the Humans.
They all have these things stuck in their ears and don't hear a simple Hello, G' afternoon/Morning.

A bear is gonna eat one whole one day I always say.

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
941. VR46L
I have a Question for all the Global warming posters what do you actually do to save the planet apart from burn electric to post these lectures ? Just wondering
Member Since: March 1, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 6950
Southern Wisconsin is now in moderate drought. The last substantial rain we had was May 6. We are 6.25" down for the year. We expect to lose all of the corn crop this year. And, this was just posted at work.

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 11:03 AM
To: Everyone in Middleton
Subject: Water
Due to this summer’s drought conditions and the demand for water on the city’s supply our water may have a brown/orange color. Since this may continue for a few days bottled water will be provided in each of the break areas.

For those that deny human responsibility for global warming, I say - prove it! What if you're WRONG - what world will you be leaving for the next generations? That's OK - we will adapt!
sarcasm flag ON

Member Since: Posts: Comments:

1. CLOUDINESS AND SHOWERS ASSOCIATED WITH A BROAD LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM
LOCATED SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES SOUTH OF ACAPULCO MEXICO HAVE CHANGED
LITTLE IN ORGANIZATION OVER THE PAST SEVERAL HOURS. CONDITIONS
APPEAR CONDUCIVE FOR SLOW DEVELOPMENT OF THIS DISTURBANCE OVER THE
NEXT FEW DAYS AS IT MOVES WEST-NORTHWESTWARD NEAR 10 MPH. THIS
SYSTEM HAS A MEDIUM CHANCE...40 PERCENT...OF BECOMING A TROPICAL
CYCLONE DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

Where is the low here?
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7959
Scott Walker nixed the train plan here and said no to a lot of Federal monies. The train would have connected Madison to Milwaukee and points along with the eventual plan having the train connect to Minneapolis and Chicago. Was not going to be a bullet train or even high speed. Not a great need for it, nor do I believe it would be viable for profit in the future. Patrap, high speed bullet trains would be nice, but to make that something the majority would use is a stretch in many areas. We couldn't build a bullet train or high speed train here because of topography. The money to build an elevated bullet train here is astronomical and not practical. This is an issue lots of America has. In Japan and China where bullet trains are common they are along flat corridors for the most part. High gas millage and electric cars are the future of American transportation. Bullet trains would work in a few areas of America, just not an overwhelming public desire for it. Our gas usage as a country has really plummeted last couple of years, so this is a good sign many, many are taking steps to cut down on consumption. Couple hundred million driver age here in the States, and we, as a people, love to drive. We will not be giving up our cars to take a train anytime soon. The ONE thing I agree with Scott Walker on, the train would create a few thousand short term jobs and a few hundred permanent ones. Long term it just wasn't what was needed, as the future showed potentially huge loses from this endeavor. People would love to take a bullet train here, and would ride it regularly. It's just not possible for many reasons. We're talking about a train that maxes out at 65 here is what was prospected, and most people say to that, "Yawn".
Member Since: April 18, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 2437
Quoting wxchaser97:

Detroit's light rail plan derailed, bus alternative discussed & Mayor Bing, Senator Levin respond

•By: WXYZ.com Web Staff
DETROIT (WXYZ) - A plan to build a light rail system along Woodward Avenue in Detroit has been derailed.

According to sources familiar with the Woodward Light Rail Project, federal funding for the plan is being pulled and the project is dead.
A high-speed bus system has been suggested instead of the rail plan.
Detroit Mayor Dave Bing calls the decision a positive development. Speaking at an event honoring bus drivers, the Mayor told reporters, "This will serve more people" and "be more cost effective."

Bing says a regional bus system would run major lines down Woodward, Gratiot, Michigan and "hopefully" Grand River. The mayor said Wednesday that Governor Rick Snyder has been talking with the Transportation Secretary, as well as the area's four County Executives regarding the region's transportation future.Posted: 12/14/2011


What do you think is the better solution coming from a city entirely built around gas cars.


Walk more and create green spaces with Internet access and Pubs,..but then again.well, I'm a communicator not a city planner. Thankfully. :)
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093
Quoting RitaEvac:


I actually think they should just provide the service for why they exist. Pay to provide the lines, power and that's it. If they're only in it for profit then it's already flawed.
But that IS the American model... pple / businesses do things for the $$$... 100 years ago there was a kind of "social morality" still in place in the wider society that said if you get rich you should use your prosperity for good / to help others. After WW1, that pretty much went out the window... everybody was in it for the good times. Like climate, there are long-term cyclical trends in human civilization. I'm not sure that we haven't gone too far down the track of "me-ism" for the society-building aspects of civilization to kick in.
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22576
Quoting hurricanejunky:


LOL...you said Fabio...insert Beavis and Butthead laugh here...


hehhehhehhehhehheh
Member Since: September 3, 2011 Posts: 13 Comments: 3476
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

A minimal Category 4, a mid-grade tropical storm, and a disturbance that should become "Fabio" over the coming days.


LOL...you said Fabio...insert Beavis and Butthead laugh here...
Member Since: August 28, 2006 Posts: 6 Comments: 2899

Detroit's light rail plan derailed, bus alternative discussed & Mayor Bing, Senator Levin respond

•By: WXYZ.com Web Staff
DETROIT (WXYZ) - A plan to build a light rail system along Woodward Avenue in Detroit has been derailed.

According to sources familiar with the Woodward Light Rail Project, federal funding for the plan is being pulled and the project is dead.
A high-speed bus system has been suggested instead of the rail plan.
Detroit Mayor Dave Bing calls the decision a positive development. Speaking at an event honoring bus drivers, the Mayor told reporters, "This will serve more people" and "be more cost effective."

Bing says a regional bus system would run major lines down Woodward, Gratiot, Michigan and "hopefully" Grand River. The mayor said Wednesday that Governor Rick Snyder has been talking with the Transportation Secretary, as well as the area's four County Executives regarding the region's transportation future.Posted: 12/14/2011

Quoting Patrap:
We can build a elevated Bullet Train in the Median of the Current Interstate system, power it my Solar.

If one has 3 cars and commute to school or work less than 50 mile total a day each,...then EV is the best solution over the 4 cyl.

Plus the Tax Credit is Huge.

I sold my Saturn SL-1 this am and am going EV soon.

Till then I'm on streetcar and Bicycle

What do you think is the better solution coming from a city entirely built around gas cars.
Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7959
Quoting BobWallace:


I wonder why this is not part of the solution?

I've ridden Bangkok's Skytrain a lot. It's built above city streets and it's a wonderful way to move quickly around a very large, traffic choked city.

No land acquisition. Except for terminals - minor.

A lot more concrete, that might be the problem....


Yes, and Patrap made a wonderful point about mass transit. Unfortunately, there are several states that decided it was a good idea to refuse funds to build mass transit, our great state of Florida being one of them. The fact that it would have created a ton of jobs is actually a side benefit. The eventual route was going to be a square connecting Tampa to Orlando (phase 1) then down to Miami and back across the state to Naples then up to Tampa. That would have not only used the existing interstate system, as Patrap mentioned doing, but it would connect 3 major cities and one larger city together, providing a ton of tourist infusion for Disney World, Busch Gardens and all of the lesser, but still desirable, attractions that exist in Miami and Naples/Fort Myers. That's what happens when you have Mr. Magoo as governor. No vision...
Member Since: August 28, 2006 Posts: 6 Comments: 2899
Quoting BahaHurican:
I agree with you on this. [But mainly because that fits squarely within my own conceptualization lol] When did people first develop EVs that had the potential to move beyond mere concept cars? I'm thinking the 1970s were when the general public began thinking about them... so using a similar timeline, by 2020 we should be pretty much off gas vehicles and on to EVs... though I don't remember reading about the kind of entrenched battle against automobiles on a political and socio-economic level that we have been seeing today, not even from train magnates [closest I can think of to the big oil companies of today].

Good conversation.
ITs not going to be that fast, maybe Hybrids, but full electric will not catch on in 5 -10 years, gas will still be king, right now Hybrids and electric cars are limited to Hipsters, even San Francisco only has a few 100, and its not the money, its the performance.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Bluestorm5:
Hey, y'all! What's going on in Pacific right now?

A minimal Category 4, a mid-grade tropical storm, and a disturbance that should become "Fabio" over the coming days.
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 32528
Quoting BobWallace:


There was a "tipping point" with cars.

Henry Ford introduced the Model T in 1908. That was the first "affordable" car that could replace the horse for many people.

If you look at city street pictures from the 1930s you'll find few horses. Most will be in parades. The real switch from horse to car happened largely in two decades.

Once EVs drop a few thousand dollars in price and get their range up over 150 miles I expect a tipping point. Within five years the majority of new car sales will be electric. (It will take another 10-15 years to retire the majority of fueled cars.)
I agree with you on this. [But mainly because that fits squarely within my own conceptualization lol] When did people first develop EVs that had the potential to move beyond mere concept cars? I'm thinking the 1970s were when the general public began thinking about them... so using a similar timeline, by 2020 we should be pretty much off gas vehicles and on to EVs... though I don't remember reading about the kind of entrenched battle against automobiles on a political and socio-economic level that we have been seeing today, not even from train magnates [closest I can think of to the big oil companies of today].

Good conversation.
Member Since: October 25, 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 22576
Quoting Patrap:
I may frame this as it hits the points like a Diamond bullet,as Kurst would say..


It is not "propaganda" to show the truth. It is not "propaganda" to show the data and connect it to the peer reviewed research that has come before. The fact of the matter is that the globe is warming - feel free to question it if you have the background to do so, but the scientific community is more solidly certain of this fact than they are that the Higgs boson has been found. The fact of the matter is that anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions, as shown by changes in the isotopes of carbon present in the atmosphere, are up hugely. The fact of the matter is that atmospheric carbon dioxide, by the laws of thermodynamics, is a major greenhouse gas.

If you persist in trying to run away from weather sites that acknowledge these facts, all out of some misguided attempt to prevent your worldview from being challenged, you will find yourself retreating further and further into a dark mental corner of bitterness and ignorance, and in the process will deny yourself many pleasant opportunities to interact with wonderful people and expand your understanding of this complex world we live in. You do not have to be like that. You have an opportunity to choose evidence-based thinking over political noise. I can only hope that you will do so.


Amen, the Cap'n put together a wonderfully articulate post that completely spelled it out for anyone who cares to listen.
Member Since: August 28, 2006 Posts: 6 Comments: 2899
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
i got rid of my van in 2005 have not had a car since been on public transit and cabs to get around no gas costs no repair costs no insurance costs and no car payment costs
I take PT sometimes, the T is sort of ineffecitent, thats what happens when parts of your system is 115 years old (the Greenline in it current form opened in 1897, and everthing else within a few years of that.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
926. CJ5
Quoting BobWallace:


We have very reasonable substitutes for fossil fuels right now.

Wind, solar, geothermal, tidal and biomass/gas can replace coal and most natural gas generation. With improved storage we can even quit natural gas.

.



That is just not true and flies in the face of common sense. Things must and will change over time but to pretend we can drop coal, oil and natural gas today is folly.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Patrap:
We can build a elevated Bullet Train in the Median of the Current Interstate system, power it my Solar.



I wonder why this is not part of the solution?

I've ridden Bangkok's Skytrain a lot. It's built above city streets and it's a wonderful way to move quickly around a very large, traffic choked city.

No land acquisition. Except for terminals - minor.

A lot more concrete, that might be the problem....
Member Since: February 22, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1344
Quoting Patrap:
We can build a elevated Bullet Train in the Median of the Current Interstate system, power it my Solar.

If one has 3 cars and commute to school or work less than 50 mile total a day eacv,...then EV is the best solution over the 4 cyl.

Plus the Tax Credit is Huge.

I sold my Saturn SL-1 this am and am going EV soon.

Till then I'm on streetcar and Bicycle
i got rid of my van in 2005 have not had a car since been on public transit and cabs to get around no gas costs no repair costs no insurance costs and no car payment costs
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 175 Comments: 54858
Quoting Patrap:
We can build a elevated Bullet Train in the Median of the Current Interstate system, power it my Solar.

If one has 3 cars and commute to school or work less than 50 mile total a day eacv,...then EV is the best solution over the 4 cyl.

Plus the Tax Credit is Huge.

I sold my Saturn SL-1 this am and am going EV soon.

Till then I'm on streetcar and Bicycle


lol

Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 9648
I may frame this as it hits the points like a Diamond bullet,as Kurst would say..


It is not "propaganda" to show the truth. It is not "propaganda" to show the data and connect it to the peer reviewed research that has come before. The fact of the matter is that the globe is warming - feel free to question it if you have the background to do so, but the scientific community is more solidly certain of this fact than they are that the Higgs boson has been found. The fact of the matter is that anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions, as shown by changes in the isotopes of carbon present in the atmosphere, are up hugely. The fact of the matter is that atmospheric carbon dioxide, by the laws of thermodynamics, is a major greenhouse gas.

If you persist in trying to run away from weather sites that acknowledge these facts, all out of some misguided attempt to prevent your worldview from being challenged, you will find yourself retreating further and further into a dark mental corner of bitterness and ignorance, and in the process will deny yourself many pleasant opportunities to interact with wonderful people and expand your understanding of this complex world we live in. You do not have to be like that. You have an opportunity to choose evidence-based thinking over political noise. I can only hope that you will do so.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 129093

Member Since: March 16, 2012 Posts: 127 Comments: 7959

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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