Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Weekend tornado outbreak: 1 EF-4, 2 EF-3s, 6 dead, damage near $300 million
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 2:09 PM GMT on April 16, 2012 +27
Damage surveys continue in the Plains in the wake of Saturday's major tornado outbreak. NOAA's Storm Prediction Center logged 110 preliminary tornado reports, with an additional 10 reports from Sunday. At least one tornado was a violent EF-4, which hit mostly unpopulated areas in Ellsworth County, Kansas. The only fatalities from the outbreak occurred in Woodward, Oklahoma, where an EF-3 tornado hit at night after lightning knocked out the town's tornado sirens. Six people were killed, three of them children. A preliminary rating of EF-3 has also been given to a tornado that hit the south and southeast portions of Wichita, Kansas near 10:30 pm CDT Saturday night. The tornado did significant damage to McConnell AFB and to a nearby trailer park. All of the residents of the trailer park were in the trail park's tornado shelter, which undoubtedly saved many lives. Two residents required hospitalization. Damage from the Wichita tornado has been estimated at $283 million.


Figure 1. Radar reflectivity image of the EF-3 tornado that hit the south side of Wichita, Kansas, causing damage estimated at $283 million.


Video 1. Storm chaser video of one of Saturday's impressive tornadoes near Salina, Kansas. At about the 3 minute mark, you'll see what appear to be cows moving very fast in a mighty tail wind.


Video 2. Storm chaser video of the nighttime Wichita, Kansas tornado of April 14, 2012.

New dire language in tornado warnings
National Weather Service offices in several states in the Plains are experimenting this year with new wording in public advisories when a particularly dangerous tornado has touched down. If spotters confirm that a large and damaging tornado is on the ground, the NWS has the option of including some rather dire wording to get the public to take action. About 3/4 of all tornado warnings are false alarms. This primarily occurs because the NWS will issue a warning for a rotating thunderstorm spotted on radar, and these thunderstorms don't always have funnel clouds that reach to the ground. But when spotters actually verify that a tornado is on the ground, and that tornado has a long history of causing damage, issuance of one the new direly-worded advisories may help give the public the message that this tornado is not going to be a false alarm and they better take it seriously. Such an advisory was issued for Saturday's Wichita, Kansas tornado, which turned out to be an EF-3 that caused major but not catastrophic damage. The dire wording of the advisory predicted the type of damage associated with a violent EF-4 or EF-5 tornado, "with complete devastation likely." The damage from this tornado fell short of that mark, but I believe it was a reasonable usage of the new type of advisory:

SEVERE WEATHER STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WICHITA KS
1033 PM CDT SAT APR 14 2012

...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FOR WEST CENTRAL BUTLER AND EASTERN SEDGWICK COUNTIES UNTIL 1100 PM CDT...

...TORNADO EMERGENCY FOR EAST WICHITA...

AT 1031 PM CDT...A CONFIRMED LARGE...VIOLENT AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TORNADO WAS LOCATED NEAR MCCONNELL AIR FORCE BASE...AND MOVING NORTHEAST AT 35 MPH.

THIS IS A PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS SITUATION.

HAZARD...DEADLY TORNADO.

SOURCE...SPOTTER CONFIRMED TORNADO.

IMPACT...THIS IS A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION. YOU COULD BE KILLED IF NOT UNDERGROUND OR IN A TORNADO SHELTER. COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOODS IS LIKELY. MANY WELL
BUILT HOMES AND BUSINESSES WILL BE COMPLETELY SWEPT FROM THEIR FOUNDATIONS. DEBRIS WILL BLOCK MOST ROADWAYS. MASS DEVASTATION IS HIGHLY LIKELY MAKING THE AREA UNRECOGNIZABLE
TO SURVIVORS.

LOCATIONS IMPACTED INCLUDE...PARK CITY...NORTHEAST WICHITA...ANDOVER...BEL AIRE...KECHI...JABARA AIRPORT AND BENTON.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

THIS IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TORNADO WITH COMPLETE DEVASTATION LIKELY. YOU COULD BE KILLED IF NOT UNDERGROUND OR IN A TORNADO SHELTER. DO NOT DELAY...SEEK SHELTER NOW! IF NO UNDERGROUND SHELTER IS AVAILABLE SEEK SHELTER IN AN INTERIOR ROOM OF THE LOWEST LEVEL OF A STRUCTURE...OR IF TIME ALLOWS...CONSIDER MOVING TO AN UNDERGROUND SHELTER ELSEWHERE. MOBILE HOMES AND OUTBUILDINGS WILL OFFER NO SHELTER FROM THIS TORNADO.

TORNADOES ARE DIFFICULT TO SEE AND CONFIRM AT NIGHT. TAKE COVER NOW.

Jeff Masters
Night tornado (Andrewbre)
Night tornado in Manchester,OK
Night tornado
Lightning over Houston (SurfYak)
A thunderstorm passes through Houston early Monday morning with lots of amazing lightning. I'm probably going to regret getting up to take this photo later today. :). For my live webcam view approxiamtely where this was taken (you can see the webcam in the photo), Click here. For more of my photography, visit my Flickr page.
Lightning over Houston
()
Storm Damage (dhennem)
Damage from the storm that came through Thurman, Iowa last night. TV says 70% to 90% of the town is destroyed.
Storm Damage
Categories: Tornado Severe Weather
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451. StormTracker2K 10:30 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
GFS precip outlook!

Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651
452. LargoFl 10:48 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting StormTracker2K:
Have your NOAA Radios ready this weekend in FL.

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TAMPA BAY RUSKIN FL
356 AM EDT TUE APR 17 2012


.LONG TERM (THURSDAY NIGHT-MONDAY)...
00Z MODELS ARE PRETTY SIMILAR ONCE AGAIN THROUGH THE LONG TERM
PERIOD...BUT HAVE CHANGED SOME IN THE TIMING AND PLACEMENT OF THE
SYSTEM OVER THE WEEKEND. THE DEEPENING TROUGH IS STILL FORECAST TO
MOVE ACROSS THE EASTERN U.S. DURING THE PERIOD...BUT MODELS ARE
NOW SHOWING A CUTOFF LOW DEVELOPING AND MOVING ACROSS THE NORTHERN
GULF COAST DURING SATURDAY AND SUNDAY THEN OPENING UP AND LIFTING
OUT ON MONDAY. MEANWHILE AT THE SURFACE...WEAK HIGH PRESSURE
SHOULD HOLD ON FRIDAY THEN AN AREA OF LOW PRESSURE IS EXPECTED TO
DEVELOP OVER THE NORTHWEST GULF COAST SATURDAY AND TRACK EAST
ACROSS THE DEEP SOUTH DURING SUNDAY AND OUT INTO THE WESTERN
ATLANTIC ON MONDAY.

ON FRIDAY IT STILL LOOKS LIKE THERE WILL BE ENOUGH MOISTURE
COMBINED WITH DAYTIME HEATING...THE SEA BREEZES AND SOME
INSTABILITY TO CAUSE A FEW AFTERNOON AND EARLY EVENING SHOWERS AND
THUNDERSTORMS. OVER THE WEEKEND A COLD FRONT ASSOCIATED WITH THE
DEVELOPING SYSTEM WILL MOVE ACROSS THE FLORIDA PENINSULA BRINGING
A DECENT CHANCE OF SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS TO THE ENTIRE
FORECAST AREA. HIGHEST POPS HAVE NOW SHIFTED TO SUNDAY AS THE
SYSTEM IS A LITTLE SLOWER...BUT STILL EXPECTING TO SEE SOME
SCATTERED CONVECTION DURING SATURDAY...ESPECIALLY OVER INLAND
AREAS. POTENTIAL FOR SOME STRONG TO POSSIBLY SEVERE STORMS WILL
EXIST SATURDAY NIGHT INTO SUNDAY AS GUIDANCE SHOWS SOME DECENT
SHEAR ALONG WITH STRENGTHENING WIND FIELDS
.
yESSSSSSSSSS
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 22426
453. GTcooliebai 10:59 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Space Shuttle Discovery to take off one last time enroute to the Washington Smithsonian. Takeoff set for 7:06 am.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/new s/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/17 /discovery_departs

Member Since: August 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 5191
454. GTcooliebai 11:02 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting GTcooliebai:
Space Shuttle Discovery to take off one last time enroute to the Washington Smithsonian. Takeoff set for 7:06 am.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/new s/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/17 /discovery_departs

It just took off as per the video clip on TWC.
Member Since: August 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 5191
455. aislinnpaps 11:15 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Wishing everyone a wonderful Tuesday!
Member Since: August 22, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 2438
456. Patrap 11:26 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 372 Comments: 111605
457. Tropicsweatherpr 11:30 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Good morning to all.

nrtiwlnvragn,do you have the link to the GFS Parallel site? Thanks in advance.
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 64 Comments: 8218
458. StormTracker2K 11:32 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Could be a severe wx outbreak in the cards this weekend and people from TX to FL really need to watch this. You can definitely tell El-nino is building as this is very uncommon for April. Infact the GFS wants to set up the rainy season across FL starting tomorrow. The models literally shows a chance of rain from tomorrow thru day 16 on the 06Z run.

DAY 4-8 CONVECTIVE OUTLOOK
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
0330 AM CDT TUE APR 17 2012

VALID 201200Z - 251200Z

...DISCUSSION...
MEDIUM RANGE MODEL GUIDANCE IS AGAIN SLOWER AND A BIT FARTHER WEST
AND SOUTH WITH ITS EVOLUTION OF AN UPPER LOW THIS WEEKEND ALONG THE
GULF COAST. AS THE UPPER TROUGH DEEPENS AND DIGS SOUTH INTO TX
DURING THE DAY4 PERIOD IT WOULD SEEM LIKELY THAT THUNDERSTORMS WILL
DEVELOP ACROSS MUCH OF CNTRL/ERN TX WITHIN GREATEST ZONE OF WARM
SECTOR INSTABILITY. IF CURRENT MODEL TRENDS HOLD THERE MAY BE
ENOUGH DEEP LAYER SHEAR/INSTABILITY TO WARRANT A RISK OF SEVERE
THUNDERSTORMS ACROSS TX FRIDAY WHICH COULD EVOLVE INTO A LARGER
COMPLEX OF CONVECTION THAT COULD DRIVE INTO THE NWRN GULF BASIN OVER
THE WEEKEND. GIVEN THAT THE MODELS HAVE YET TO SETTLE ON A
CONSISTENT SOLUTION WILL NOT INTRODUCE AN ORGANIZED RISK OF SEVERE
THUNDERSTORMS THIS PERIOD
Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651
459. weatherh98 11:33 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Happy Tuesday! Good morning
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6091
460. StormTracker2K 11:35 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE JACKSONVILLE FL
342 AM EDT TUE APR 17 2012

WEATHER PATTERN CHANGES WILL OCCUR THIS WEEKEND. HIGHLY AMPLIFIED
UPPER TROUGH WILL DIG ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST AND DRIVE A COLD FRONT
THROUGH SATURDAY NIGHT/SUNDAY. ECMWF CONTINUES FASTER WITH THE
SYSTEM WHILE THE GFS HAS SLOWED. AS DEEP AS THE TROUGH IS EXPECTED
TO BE...WILL TREND TOWARD THE FASTER ECMWF BUT KEEP LOW CHANCE
POPS THROUGH SUNDAY EVENING. THIS SYSTEM WILL TAP INTO SUFFICIENT
MOISTURE ALONG WITH STRONG DYNAMICS ALONG AND AHEAD OF THE COLD
FRONT TO PRODUCE SCTD TO NUMEROUS SHOWERS/STORMS
. MOS GUIDANCE IS
CONSIDERABLY WARMER SUNDAY/MONDAY THAN PREVIOUSLY. WILL BUMP TEMPS
UP A BIT BUT CONTINUE TO BE COOLER THAN LATEST GUIDANCE SINCE
EXPECTING FRONT TO MOVE FASTER THAN GFS. AFTER THE REGION DRIES
OUT EARLY NEXT WEEK...TEMPS WILL BE MUCH COOLER WITH LOWS DOWN
INTO THE 40S SUNDAY NIGHT.
Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651
461. CybrTeddy 11:36 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Farewell Space Shuttle Discovery!
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 253 Comments: 20260
462. LargoFl 11:39 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting StormTracker2K:
Could be a severe wx outbreak in the cards this weekend and people from TX to FL really need to watch this. You can definitely tell El-nino is building as this is very uncommon for April. Infact the GFS wants to set up the rainy season across FL starting tomorrow. The models literally shows a chance of rain from tomorrow thru day 16 on the 06Z run.

DAY 4-8 CONVECTIVE OUTLOOK
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
0330 AM CDT TUE APR 17 2012

VALID 201200Z - 251200Z

...DISCUSSION...
MEDIUM RANGE MODEL GUIDANCE IS AGAIN SLOWER AND A BIT FARTHER WEST
AND SOUTH WITH ITS EVOLUTION OF AN UPPER LOW THIS WEEKEND ALONG THE
GULF COAST. AS THE UPPER TROUGH DEEPENS AND DIGS SOUTH INTO TX
DURING THE DAY4 PERIOD IT WOULD SEEM LIKELY THAT THUNDERSTORMS WILL
DEVELOP ACROSS MUCH OF CNTRL/ERN TX WITHIN GREATEST ZONE OF WARM
SECTOR INSTABILITY. IF CURRENT MODEL TRENDS HOLD THERE MAY BE
ENOUGH DEEP LAYER SHEAR/INSTABILITY TO WARRANT A RISK OF SEVERE
THUNDERSTORMS ACROSS TX FRIDAY WHICH COULD EVOLVE INTO A LARGER
COMPLEX OF CONVECTION THAT COULD DRIVE INTO THE NWRN GULF BASIN OVER
THE WEEKEND. GIVEN THAT THE MODELS HAVE YET TO SETTLE ON A
CONSISTENT SOLUTION WILL NOT INTRODUCE AN ORGANIZED RISK OF SEVERE
THUNDERSTORMS THIS PERIOD
we will have to watch this develop carefully, but we need all the rain we can get
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 22426
463. CybrTeddy 11:40 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting StormTracker2K:
Could be a severe wx outbreak in the cards this weekend and people from TX to FL really need to watch this. You can definitely tell El-nino is building as this is very uncommon for April. Infact the GFS wants to set up the rainy season across FL starting tomorrow. The models literally shows a chance of rain from tomorrow thru day 16 on the 06Z run.

DAY 4-8 CONVECTIVE OUTLOOK
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
0330 AM CDT TUE APR 17 2012

VALID 201200Z - 251200Z

...DISCUSSION...
MEDIUM RANGE MODEL GUIDANCE IS AGAIN SLOWER AND A BIT FARTHER WEST
AND SOUTH WITH ITS EVOLUTION OF AN UPPER LOW THIS WEEKEND ALONG THE
GULF COAST. AS THE UPPER TROUGH DEEPENS AND DIGS SOUTH INTO TX
DURING THE DAY4 PERIOD IT WOULD SEEM LIKELY THAT THUNDERSTORMS WILL
DEVELOP ACROSS MUCH OF CNTRL/ERN TX WITHIN GREATEST ZONE OF WARM
SECTOR INSTABILITY. IF CURRENT MODEL TRENDS HOLD THERE MAY BE
ENOUGH DEEP LAYER SHEAR/INSTABILITY TO WARRANT A RISK OF SEVERE
THUNDERSTORMS ACROSS TX FRIDAY WHICH COULD EVOLVE INTO A LARGER
COMPLEX OF CONVECTION THAT COULD DRIVE INTO THE NWRN GULF BASIN OVER
THE WEEKEND. GIVEN THAT THE MODELS HAVE YET TO SETTLE ON A
CONSISTENT SOLUTION WILL NOT INTRODUCE AN ORGANIZED RISK OF SEVERE
THUNDERSTORMS THIS PERIOD


Bring.. it.. ON!
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 253 Comments: 20260
464. TropicalAnalystwx13 11:40 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
I have my doubts about this system...it's still highly frontal in nature and running out of time to develop before it's swept up by another front.

Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25330
465. Xyrus2000 11:41 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting wxmojo:


They are simply observations, my friend. I don't understand all the vitriol and ad hominem attacks for simply presenting some rather curious observations.


Who's attacking you personally? I'm talking about your observation with sample size one with one link to file hosting site.

Given the chaotic nature of weather, you can come up with just about any kind of random "pattern" you want and still get something that looks like it lines up every once in a while. This holds true for any chaotic data, including stock "prediction" algorithms. Hind-casting is easy, prediction is the difficult part.

The point is, it takes a lot more research (including reviews for other experts in the field) and definitely a lot more observations to back up any scientific claims. These correlation grids based on geometry are a far cry from that.
Member Since: October 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1016
466. GTcooliebai 11:42 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting StormTracker2K:
AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE JACKSONVILLE FL
342 AM EDT TUE APR 17 2012

WEATHER PATTERN CHANGES WILL OCCUR THIS WEEKEND. HIGHLY AMPLIFIED
UPPER TROUGH WILL DIG ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST AND DRIVE A COLD FRONT
THROUGH SATURDAY NIGHT/SUNDAY. ECMWF CONTINUES FASTER WITH THE
SYSTEM WHILE THE GFS HAS SLOWED. AS DEEP AS THE TROUGH IS EXPECTED
TO BE...WILL TREND TOWARD THE FASTER ECMWF BUT KEEP LOW CHANCE
POPS THROUGH SUNDAY EVENING. THIS SYSTEM WILL TAP INTO SUFFICIENT
MOISTURE ALONG WITH STRONG DYNAMICS ALONG AND AHEAD OF THE COLD
FRONT TO PRODUCE SCTD TO NUMEROUS SHOWERS/STORMS
. MOS GUIDANCE IS
CONSIDERABLY WARMER SUNDAY/MONDAY THAN PREVIOUSLY. WILL BUMP TEMPS
UP A BIT BUT CONTINUE TO BE COOLER THAN LATEST GUIDANCE SINCE
EXPECTING FRONT TO MOVE FASTER THAN GFS. AFTER THE REGION DRIES
OUT EARLY NEXT WEEK...TEMPS WILL BE MUCH COOLER WITH LOWS DOWN
INTO THE 40S SUNDAY NIGHT.
You're doing a good job, keep tabs on it for us.
Member Since: August 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 5191
467. StormTracker2K 11:47 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting GTcooliebai:
You're doing a good job, keep tabs on it for us.


Thank you! I think this is going to pan out and if it does many in FL will be thankfull as this could be a significant rain maker.
Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651
468. MAweatherboy1 11:56 AM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
I have my doubts about this system...it's still highly frontal in nature and running out of time to develop before it's swept up by another front.


I would say it is out of time if it ever had a chance at all... It looks exactly the same as yesterday... SST's are way to cool and it just can't get itself off that front.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 67 Comments: 6373
469. biff4ugo 12:09 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Yes, after today the forecast says RAIN RAIN RAIN, like summer is finally here with a frontal bonus on saturday. But New Orleans keeps getting the rain and the front keeps switching from east progression to north.
Somebody in Texas, please kick it over to Florida. I'm tired of mowing weeds in the dry lake bottom and hearing the raspy crunch of the crispy grass on my lawn.
Member Since: December 28, 2006 Posts: 107 Comments: 1187
470. Tropicsweatherpr 12:18 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting Levi32:
You know it's that time of year when this stuff starts showing up on the long-range GFS. This model has been hinting at the central-eastern Caribbean being the most favorable spot for any possible May mischief. Right now it is probably just getting early quirks out of its system.



Hi Levi.You think something may form in the area by early May?
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 64 Comments: 8218
471. StormTracker2K 12:18 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting biff4ugo:
Yes, after today the forecast says RAIN RAIN RAIN, like summer is finally here with a frontal bonus on saturday. But New Orleans keeps getting the rain and the front keeps switching from east progression to north.
Somebody in Texas, please kick it over to Florida. I'm tired of mowing weeds in the dry lake bottom and hearing the raspy crunch of the crispy grass on my lawn.


Rain's a coming but so is also the severe wx potential. Lots of shear across FL on Sunday.

Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651
472. biff4ugo 12:21 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
to 418
"a monkey with an etch-a-sketch" is not an ad hominem attack?
No, it is a Hominidae attack. Easy mistake.
Member Since: December 28, 2006 Posts: 107 Comments: 1187
473. StormTracker2K 12:34 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
It seems as if a couple of factors are coming together to jump start more regular rains across FL and here they are below.



Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651
474. nrtiwlnvragn 12:43 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting Tropicsweatherpr:
Good morning to all.

nrtiwlnvragn,do you have the link to the GFS Parallel site? Thanks in advance.


Sorry, don't have any good ones. Since they decomissioned the old NCEP Analysis Page I have not seen a page where they replacate the standard GFS graphics with the parallel run. The data in grib format is available at:
www.ftp.ncep.noaa.gov/data/nccf/com/gfs/para
One would need to create their own forecast graphics from that data, way above my paygrade.
Member Since: September 23, 2005 Posts: 11 Comments: 8937
475. PlazaRed 12:44 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting MAweatherboy1:

We also had a 7.0 in Papua New Guinea... Thankfully it was deep though

Morning everyone.

After my time by the hands of your clocks, I was on a roof, fixing it when that happened but this outbreak of "quakeisums" is a bit unusual, they are scattered all over the pacific ring and we have had a few in the Med. area as well, thought less intense.
The "quarter," from Mexico to the Aleutians is sort of left out of this at the moment, I hope it stays that way for you's.
Sun streaming down here in Southern Europe and we also had tornado's in Jaen north of Granada and Tarragona south of Barcelona on Saturday, not to be left out of the action. Nothing remotely like what the central states had though.
Oh! Happy Tuesday for some reason!
Member Since: January 21, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1442
476. Tropicsweatherpr 12:57 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting nrtiwlnvragn:


Sorry, don't have any good ones. Since they decomissioned the old NCEP Analysis Page I have not seen a page where they replacate the standard GFS graphics with the parallel run. The data in grib format is available at:
www.ftp.ncep.noaa.gov/data/nccf/com/gfs/para
One would need to create their own forecast graphics from that data, way above my paygrade.


Ok,thanks again.
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 64 Comments: 8218
477. PlazaRed 1:00 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting Jedkins01:
What I would like to see is a thunderstorm that would look like this:

and would bring 5 to 6 inches of rain in a couple hours turning my yard into this:



Yes that thunderstorm happened last year and caused that flooding, it dumped roughly 5 to 6 inches within 2 hours, it also was tornado warned and produced 60 mph winds here and incredible lightning that caused a fire about a mile away, and that's me standing in the flood waters afterward.


I would really like to see some of this above return instead of all this drought :)

I saw a thunderstorm like that once and I don't want to see another!Black, almost like night, lightning every few seconds, incredible noise and worst of all the roar of the rivers with boulders in them.
14 inches of rain in 5 hours, everything except big rocks washed away, devastation that can't be imagined unless you lived through it! 1999 I think.
I wish I could have stood in the floodwater's but they were 14 feet deep and moving at about 40 miles an hour.
Member Since: January 21, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1442
478. CybrTeddy 1:44 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
FWIW, 2009 v. 2012.

April 16th, 2012. (SST)


April 17th, 2012. (SST)


April 16th, 2012 (TCHP)


April 17th, 2012 (TCHP)



MUCH warmer than in 2009 and for that matter, 2006. GOMEX is warmer than any year too, which leads me to believe that we're going to see a few more named storms than what we saw in 2009. Don't be surprised though if most of the 10 or 11 named this year happens before the peak of hurricane season.
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 253 Comments: 20260
479. PedleyCA 2:59 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Plaza Red - 475

The "quarter," from Mexico to the Aleutians is sort of left out of this at the moment, I hope it stays that way for you's.

I am about 20-25 miles from the San Andreas fault. The San Bernardino part of it. (Southern Calif) I always cringe when people mention that we haven't had one lately. Thank you for saying the opposite (wishing nothing). So ya doing well there? Have you got your web pages behaving?
Member Since: February 29, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 2152
480. Skyepony (Mod) 3:44 PM GMT on April 17, 2012    
Quoting Xyrus2000:


Who's attacking you personally? I'm talking about your observation with sample size one with one link to file hosting site.

Given the chaotic nature of weather, you can come up with just about any kind of random "pattern" you want and still get something that looks like it lines up every once in a while. This holds true for any chaotic data, including stock "prediction" algorithms. Hind-casting is easy, prediction is the difficult part.

The point is, it takes a lot more research (including reviews for other experts in the field) and definitely a lot more observations to back up any scientific claims. These correlation grids based on geometry are a far cry from that.


I think this has been a good start. We've watched him come up with other shapes on maps, for other events. I've watched this evolve, it's getting more detailed. The way that was done with the tornado out break was interesting cause I could scroll through & see it move & plumes explode within boundaries already outlined by rectangles. It's natural math & physics in shapes. It's partly what I've always imagined when forecasting...things tend toward patterns, like three cyclones in a row. Some people can see & do math on a way higher level with shapes & colors. I glimpse it, but far from fully grasp it. But what if one of these geniuses that fully gets it taught it to computers to use the big picture shapes & colors to simplify the runs so they could run that much more info for each model run? Even the text of the tutorial ends with questions. This is in no way trying to even sound like a peer reviewed idea. In the past here we've come up with ideas that have gone on to be others thesis or peer reviewed papers. It could be the next great thing in models or not.. I'd like to see it run it's course, he's not making any claims, not really trolling, they have all been done on maps where the lat/log are curved & I'm partial to the rainbow maps. There's getting to be a trend toward bashing people seeing things in clouds..shapes, demons, numbers..some of us will never be convinced that just because you don't see them that Sky ponies don't exist:)
Member Since: August 10, 2005 Posts: 144 Comments: 29354

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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