Heartland Institute documents reveal strategy of attacks against climate science

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:15 PM GMT on February 17, 2012

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Documents illegally leaked from the Heartland Institute, one of the most active groups engaged in attacking the science of climate change, provide an unprecedented look into how these groups operate. The story was broken Tuesday by DeSmogBlog, a website dedicated to exposing false claims about climate change science. The documents reveal that donors to Heartland included oil billionaire Charles Koch, and Heartland has spent several million dollars over the past five years to undermine climate science. Tens of thousands of dollars are slated to go this year to well-known climate contrarians S.Fred Singer, Craig Idso, and Anthony Watts of the Watts Up With That? website. Naturally, the leaked documents have lit up the blogosphere, but none of the revelations are particularly surprising. The U.S. has a very successful and well-funded climate change denial industry, primarily funded by fossil fuel companies, that has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past few decades on a PR campaign against climate change science. I made a lengthy post on the subject in 2009 called, The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy. I won't say more here, but getenergysmartnow.com has compiled a long list of blogs that have interesting posts on the Heartland Institute affair for those interested in following this story.



Eight books challenging the Manufactured Doubt industry
Important scientific findings should always be challenged with the goal of finding flaws and improving our scientific understanding. But there's nothing a scientist hates more than to see good science attacked and the reputations of good scientists smeared in name of protecting corporate profits or ideology. A number of scientists have fought back against the recent unfounded assaults on climate change science by publishing books calling attention to the Manufactured Doubt industry's tactics and goals. Anyone priding themselves on being a open-minded skeptic of human-caused global warming should challenge their skepticism by reading one of these works. I thought so highly of Unscientific America, Merchants of Doubt, and Climate Coverup, that I donated 50 copies of these books to undergraduates at the University of Michigan last year. Here's a short synopsis of eight books published in the past three years defending climate change science against the attacks of the Manufactured Doubt industry:

Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway. If you're going to read one book on the attacks on climate science, this should probably be the one--Dr. Oreskes, a history professor at UC San Diego, was voted climate change communicator of the year in 2011. A review of Merchants of Doubt and a video of her defending her book against skeptics is at climateprogress.org, my favorite website for staying current on the politics of climate change. From the review: "Make the journey with them, and you’ll see renowned scientists abandon science, you’ll see environmentalism equated with communism, and you’ll discover the connection between the Cold War and climate denial. And for the most part, you’ll be entertained along the way."

Climate Cover-up: The Crusade to Deny Global Warming, by desmogblog.com co-founders James Hoggan and Richard Littlemore. The main author, James Hoggan, owns a Canadian public relations firm, and is intimately familiar with how public relations campaigns work. It's another fascinating and very readable book.

Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future, by science writer Chris Mooney. He writes a blog focusing on science communication called the intersection. This is a fantastic book, and should be required reading for all college science majors.

Climate Change Denial: Heads in the Sand, by Haydn Washington and John Cook. John Cook writes for one of my favorite climate science blogs, skepticalscience.com, which focuses on debunking false skeptic claims about climate science. The book does a great job debunking all the classic climate change denial arguments.

Doubt is Their Product: How Industry's Assault on Science Threatens Your Health, by George Washington University epidemiologist David Michaels, who now heads the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA). This meticulously-researched book has just one chapter on climate change, and focuses more on tobacco and hazardous chemicals. About the the tobacco industry's Manufactured Doubt campaigns, Michaels wrote: "the industry understood that the public is in no position to distinguish good science from bad. Create doubt, uncertainty, and confusion. Throw mud at the anti-smoking research under the assumption that some of it is bound to stick. And buy time, lots of it, in the bargain". The title of Michaels' book comes from a 1969 memo from a tobacco company executive: "Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the 'body of fact' that exists in the minds of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy".

The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines, by climate scientist Dr. Michael Mann. Dr. Mann is the originator of the much-debated "hockey stick" graph of global temperatures over the past 1,000 years, which looks like a hockey stick due to the sharp increase in temperatures in recent decades. This book just came out last week, and I hope to write a review on it this spring. Dr. Mann is one of the main contributors to my favorite web site for staying current on climate change research, realclimate.org. John Cook of skepticalscience.com wrote a review, calling it "an eye-opening account of the lengths the opponents of climate science will go to in their campaign to slander climate scientists and distract the public from the realities of human caused global warming."

Fool Me Twice: Fighting the Assault on Science in America by Shawn Lawrence Otto. I haven't had a chance to read this one yet, but it looks interesting. A review by Katherine O’Konski of Climate Science Watch called the book "a fascinating look at the status of science in American society."

The Inquisition of Climate Science, by Dr. James Lawrence Powell, a geochemist with a distinguished career as a college teacher, college president, museum director, and author of books on earth science for general audiences. I haven't read it, but John Cook of skepticalscience.com wrote a review, calling it "a must-read for anyone who wishes to understand the full scope of the denial industry and their modern day persecution of climate science."

Have a great weekend, everyone! I'll be taking a few vacation days next week, and wunderground meteorologist Angela Fritz will probably be doing most of the blogging for me during the coming week.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting SPLbeater:


ya idk why argue with an HP computer.

some1 needs to git rid of that HP computer thats here..

oh wait, i know an idea. *runs over to ignore list*


I guess I'm not the only one who thinks a few posters here are advanced CP programs designed to create blog trouble...

Maybe its WATSON :0

lol jk



Anyways, there are actually some amazing Computers that are capable of simulating human conversation quite well, to where you might think its is a human. Technology has come so far even since I was young, and I'm just 21 years old.

We are truly in the Star Trek age, at this point the only thing stopping us from traveling throughout deep space in the next 20 years is the massive amount of money it would take to do so, lol.
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7400
Quoting melwerle:
I might have been really tired or just hallucinating or something but has anyone else seen a mitsubishi commercial that mentioned weatherunderground? Saw it last night but was like HUH?


I saw it last night, Pat has been posting it from youtube past week or so...
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting SPLbeater:


ya idk why argue with an HP computer.

some1 needs to git rid of that HP computer thats here..

oh wait, i know an idea. *runs over to ignore list*


his church is the best and its snowed 57 inches at his house last night!! NOT!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting bappit:

If we could get past the denial, maybe we could figure out what we should do. I'm sure you don't want a few individuals dictating the approach to take. I know I don't. I do think the real problem is more onerous than some want to admit, but why not be honest/realistic about things? It is not as easy as giving up cigarettes--and you may be aware of how difficult that is.


To be clear, the scientist do research and make recommendations. They do not make policy. That is up to the politicians. And for politicians to act there has to be either:

1. Money
2. An outcry from the public so loud that if they want to get re-elected they will have to ignore the money (rare).

Then we actually need the will, the resources, and the money to actually perform whatever course of action is selected. And that's assuming that there aren't groups fighting tooth and nail against it, which there usually is, or other trumped up issues which take precedence in the mind of the public, which there usually are.

So while addressing the issue is very important, I have a great deal of cynicism that anything will actually be done about it until its too late.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
1425. Patrap
Uploaded by CompartiendoPubli on Feb 9, 2012
For five days, six states and a few thousand miles in December, we chased a storm with the expert help of Weather Underground. The film was shot documentary-style with Directors Emmett and Brendan Malloy, two brothers who say chasing unpredictable parts of nature is a big part of their filmmaking process. A member of Mitsubishi's social media team went along for the ride, tweeting and posting their whereabouts.

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 423 Comments: 127814
Quoting Jedkins01:


Hey, don't get upset man, you're not going to convince him, I get why you would be upset, he thinks he knows all and is quick to judge what he knows not. However, those who are brain legends in their own minds, you cannot hold reasonable conversations with them, so don't bother, just be free.


ya idk why argue with an HP computer.
Quoting WxGeekVA:
Seriously. Stop with the religious debate or take it to another blog. There is plenty of weather to discuss and it enough room to have a religious arguement at the same time


some1 needs to git rid of that HP computer thats here..

oh wait, i know an idea. *runs over to ignore list*
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
1423. hydrus
This could be interesting..
Member Since: September 27, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 21009
Quoting fmhurricane2009:
Jedkins, how impressive is the cold front going to be that passes through Tampa. I'm planning for 70-50(D F) in TPA.
is this a reasonable approximation, or am I off by a few degrees?



Do you mean the recent front that just passed through? Or the front this upcoming Friday? And which day are you referring to?
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7400
Seriously. Stop with the religious debate or take it to another blog. There is plenty of weather to discuss and not enough room to have a religious arguement at the same time
Member Since: September 3, 2011 Posts: 13 Comments: 3470
Jedkins, how impressive is the cold front going to be that passes through Tampa. I'm planning for 70-50(D F) in TPA.
is this a reasonable approximation, or am I off by a few degrees?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting RTSplayer:
Quoting SPLbeater:


you are SOOOOOOO wrong.

My church is NOT a busniness.


and you said you doubted I knew the meaning of the passages.

Easily said.

Every church or denomination insists theirs is free from the corruption. It is those "other" guys who've got it wrong.

"We're not a cult! Those other guys are!"

"We're not abusing our congregation! Those other guys are."

One boasts that they are not "Lukewarm" like the other guys.

Another boasts that they have "moderation", unlike the "fanatics".

the Fanatics consider the liberals apostates.


The Catholics are two-faced. On the one hand, they'll claim they consider all the others Christian, but on the other hand, they claim the Catholic church is the only true church, and then whether they admit it or not, the RCC is filled with Mary-olatry and other Saint worship. But I do give them credit about one thing, in most cases they actually do have a more intellectual approach to faith than most protestant denominations.


I used to write commentary and tracts on my spare time, and debate theology and eschatology with the seminary theologians on various Christian forums.

the fact is, most people identifying themselves as "Christian" know absolutely nothing about the Bible or Christianity. Surveys have been done by both atheist and Christian organizations, and most people identifying themselves as Christian cannot name two books in the Bible, and cannot name more than 2 or 3 of the Ten Commandments, and cannot even give the basic tenets of the faith regarding Christ or the requirements for salvation.

You should start with your church, or some nearby churches in your neighborhood.

go to church and ask people basic, "idiot level" questions about the Christian faith.

Who is Jesus.
What is salvation and how is it obtained.
What is sanctification or righteousness and how is that obtained?

And so on.

Ask some other things, ridiculously simple, like who built the Ark with the animals and the great flood, or what does the symbolism of the temple and the levitical offerings mean, from a Christian perspective and interpretation?

They will have no clue. In fact, I'm willing to bet a dollar that last one will stump 99% of PASTORS.

I can show you things that no pastor I've ever heard of knows about the Levitical offerings and how they tie into the New Testament.

I've got much of my Bible marked up and worn out from cross-references in underlining, highlighting, and the margins, because I did the homework.


Anyway, even when you find a theologian or somebody who actually does know "somewhat" of what they are talking about, you can't get any two people to agree on much of anything.

Been there, done that, tried it found out it doesn't work.

then the Atheist joins a discussion, and with the exception of the most highly educated Christians, they typically make the Christians look like complete fools, right on the middle of the Christian web site, because they almost always know more about science, and usually know more about the Bible than the Christians as well, and the sad thing is the Christians are usually too stupid to even realize it...



Bro, God didn't come to reward dudes with big brains and big egos, those who are last shall be first and the first shall be last. You're missing the whole point, let go and embrace love and freedom.
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7400
Quoting SPLbeater:



you have got to be a CPU.

until you take a step inside my church, dont even begin to critisize it. I have a very godly church that is bible based and has no BS involved. Our preacher is one of the best.

SO SHUT YOUR TRAP.

I know your parents taught you manners...

Quoting SPLbeater:
GFS hour 192 looks interesting...

More heavy rain...We got 5" here yesterday.

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting SPLbeater:



you have got to be a CPU.

until you take a step inside my church, dont even begin to critisize it. I have a very godly church that is bible based and has no BS involved. Our preacher is one of the best.

SO SHUT YOUR TRAP.


Hey, don't get upset man, you're not going to convince him, I get why you would be upset, he thinks he knows all and is quick to judge what he knows not. However, those who are brain legends in their own minds, you cannot hold reasonable conversations with them, so don't bother, just be free.
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 7400
GFS hour 192 looks interesting...
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting SPLbeater:


you are SOOOOOOO wrong.

My church is NOT a busniness.


and you said you doubted I knew the meaning of the passages.

Easily said.

Every church or denomination insists theirs is free from the corruption. It is those "other" guys who've got it wrong.

"We're not a cult! Those other guys are!"

"We're not abusing our congregation! Those other guys are."

One boasts that they are not "Lukewarm" like the other guys.

Another boasts that they have "moderation", unlike the "fanatics".

the Fanatics consider the liberals apostates.


The Catholics are two-faced. On the one hand, they'll claim they consider all the others Christian, but on the other hand, they claim the Catholic church is the only true church, and then whether they admit it or not, the RCC is filled with Mary-olatry and other Saint worship. But I do give them credit about one thing, in most cases they actually do have a more intellectual approach to faith than most protestant denominations.


I used to write commentary and tracts on my spare time, and debate theology and eschatology with the seminary theologians on various Christian forums.

the fact is, most people identifying themselves as "Christian" know absolutely nothing about the Bible or Christianity. Surveys have been done by both atheist and Christian organizations, and most people identifying themselves as Christian cannot name two books in the Bible, and cannot name more than 2 or 3 of the Ten Commandments, and cannot even give the basic tenets of the faith regarding Christ or the requirements for salvation.

You should start with your church, or some nearby churches in your neighborhood.

go to church and ask people basic, "idiot level" questions about the Christian faith.

Who is Jesus.
What is salvation and how is it obtained.
What is sanctification or righteousness and how is that obtained?

And so on.

Ask some other things, ridiculously simple, like who built the Ark with the animals and the great flood, or what does the symbolism of the temple and the levitical offerings mean, from a Christian perspective and interpretation?

They will have no clue. In fact, I'm willing to bet a dollar that last one will stump 99% of PASTORS.

I can show you things that no pastor I've ever heard of knows about the Levitical offerings and how they tie into the New Testament.

I've got much of my Bible marked up and worn out from cross-references in underlining, highlighting, and the margins, because I did the homework.


Anyway, even when you find a theologian or somebody who actually does know "somewhat" of what they are talking about, you can't get any two people to agree on much of anything.

Been there, done that, tried it found out it doesn't work.

then the Atheist joins a discussion, and with the exception of the most highly educated Christians, they typically make the Christians look like complete fools, right on the middle of the Christian web site, because they almost always know more about science, and usually know more about the Bible than the Christians as well, and the sad thing is the Christians are usually too stupid to even realize it...
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 33 Comments: 1520
I am going to go find some model forecast that is interesting to post.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting HurricaneDean07:
Hi everyone, decided to stop hibernating from the blog today. After all, it's gonna be in the 70's and 80's all week around here with bright and sunny skies of coarse. That pattern the models have been picking up on is sure about to kick in, it's gonna be drier and sunny here and the west, and as for the east, well more winter for you guys... Up the east coast especially. Anyhow, that's my two cents to weather... Be back when things actually become INTERESTING in the tropics, around beginning of May... When we start watching for our first tropical.

Wave... Lol didnt finish my last sentence
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Im bored.

Blog activity sure went down since dis storm system.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting Neapolitan:
Oh, so sorry, Cat5Hurricane, but I have you (and all your sockpuppets) blocked from WUmailing me. A dozen separate and obscene WUmails from a dozen separate handles in the past two days? Seriously? ;-)

I see that the UK is bouncing back nicely from the cold snap; there are a number of high temperature records being challenged, tied, or set again today. I imagine that's quite a relief...
Quoting TampaCat5:

Cat5? Huh?
Quoting NaplesFLBreeze:

See #1363. Apparently, someone has a minor problem with confusing bloggers and calling out innocent bystanders like a child. I don't think it's personal.
Quoting SPLbeater:


if anybody had alot of alt accounts, or 'sockpuppets' it would probably be Neapolitan. just ignore Nea if he messes with you, he does that to everyone:)

Besides, people dont join in 2006 to troll in 2012.

Cat5hurricane and TampaCat5 are two different people.

TampaCat5=long time member
Cat5hurricane=banned member that dislikes Nea and is apparently making fake accounts to mess with him.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Hi everyone, decided to stop hibernating from the blog today. After all, it's gonna be in the 70's and 80's all week around here with bright and sunny skies of coarse. That pattern the models have been picking up on is sure about to kick in, it's gonna be drier and sunny here and the west, and as for the east, well more winter for you guys... Up the east coast especially. Anyhow, that's my two cents to weather... Be back when things actually become INTERESTING in the tropics, around beginning of May... When we start watching for our first tropical.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting FrankZapper:
As a stockholder in a major oil company that is doing quite well at present, I say that weather blogs should not be used for propaganda from the AGW leftist groups.


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I might have been really tired or just hallucinating or something but has anyone else seen a mitsubishi commercial that mentioned weatherunderground? Saw it last night but was like HUH?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Neapolitan:
Oh, so sorry, Cat5Hurricane, but I have you (and all your sockpuppets) blocked from WUmailing me. A dozen separate and obscene WUmails from a dozen separate handles in the past two days? Seriously? ;-)

I see that the UK is bouncing back nicely from the cold snap; there are a number of high temperature records being challenged, tied, or set again today. I imagine that's quite a relief...
. Really?.It is so early in the morning for this...
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Quoting washingtonian115:
And why don't I believe that?


you have been sick from no snow all winter and now you have no hope whatsover for snow? lol idk
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
GFS continues to show a strong low-pressure area affecting the East Coast in 9-10 days from now. Just like this past one, heavy rainfall across the southeast and into southeastern Virginia, but all snow across the mountains of North Carolina and most of Virginia. It appears that this low pulls much more moisture into the colder air than this past system, so snow stretches across much of the Northeast.

Something to watch for sure.

And why don't I believe that?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
GFS continues to show a strong low-pressure area affecting the East Coast in 9-10 days from now. Just like this past one, heavy rainfall across the southeast and into southeastern Virginia, but all snow across the mountains of North Carolina and most of Virginia. It appears that this low pulls much more moisture into the colder air than this past system, so snow stretches across much of the Northeast.

Something to watch for sure.



This is ridiculous. Virginia and the mid atlantic don't need anymore snow. There is virtually no snow in the northeast; we need the snow.

Edit: I wonder if the northeast will experience dry conditions this spring/summer since it looks like a lot of places won't get any soil saturation from what would normally be two feet of snow melting in March. Also, most of the east coast is 2 to 4 inches below normal for precipitation over the past 2 months. I'd imagine the lack of nor'easters is at least partially to blame.

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Quoting PensacolaDoug:
Is it conservative to care for the environment? I would think it would be. I would think that traditionally, sloppiness and waste would be attributed to democrats, if not liberals. Yet today, caring for the environment is being treated as a 'liberal disease'.

Libs pay lip service to a clean environment but I will point out how clean the parks are after a Tea Party" rally and how disgusting they are after an "Occupy" session.


Religious freedom. I thought that would be conservative: less government interference in our private lives; the government only intervenes to assure liberty. 'Conservative' has come to mean 'Christian' for a lot of people.

For "alot" of people. A fairly vague term "alot".
The government is currently interfering with the Catholic tenents as we speak.


Education. Where would America be without public education? But it is a socialist thing, no? Free education.

Since its inception back in the 1960's the, the Dept of Education has spent literally billions upon billions of dollars and dictated to the states the curriculum. Has education gotten better in this country?

Wealth. Why should wealth be conservative? It seems like "conservative" = "wealthy" nowadays. What about the poor person with pride who wants to live their life in peace? What about the poor person who wants to just worship and live as they choose? Yet these people are getting caught in the steamroller of modern society. You can say what you want about charity and a welfare society but one opposite is that we all become a society of pigs competing to climb a greased pole just so we can stand on top. If it is impossible to be poor and dignified, America is not a conservative country.

Wealth doesn't equal conservative. You've been sold a bill of goods and have bought into it. Some of the biggest donors to the Democratic party have been the Wall Street brokers. Poor with pride? How much pride can you have when you subsist on government handouts? Pride comes from doing it yourself. Being stagnant on the income scale is not the "American Dream". Being upwardly mobile by your own hand is. Also, when people do start moving up the income ladder thru their own efforts, they tend to pull those around them along. That's one of the reasons this country has become as wealthy as it has.






Actually, the only point I wanted to make was that the term 'conservative' has a lot of different meanings to different people. I wasn't criticizing any of your positions. I just meant that you should be more specific. I consider myself a 'conservative' but I don't admit it in public unless I know the person i am speaking to well - not because I am ashamed of my beliefs, but because people like Newt Gingrich, who I consider to be a lothesome little toad of a person, consider themselves to be conservative. His deffinition of what 'conservitive' is is very different from mine.

So when you say 'conservativism' will save America, I have no idea what you mean, except that you don't like liberalism. I tried to pick a few examples of issues where 'conservative' isn't clear cut. That is all I was trying to do, honest, not pick a side of thsoe issues.

However, if you consider education.. yeah i would say that there are good schools and bad schools. I know a few schools that are brilliant. I know a few that are horrible.... but what would you do? Stop public education? That might be a 'conservative' principle but look at the result: some rich kids would get a good education, some middle class kids would as well. But you destroy the hopes of millions of poor kids who have nothing to do with their parents situation. Further, would America really be better off with generations of ignorant TV schooled kids? Watch "idiocracy" for a vision of that America.

So what is the 'conservative' view? I don't know and I care less. I think we should invest in public education until we are reduced to rice and beans. It should be a priority over defense. Is that conservative? No? How would you educate America or would you see it fall further and further behind..

Similarly, about wealth: I was just mentioning a position on wealth, not advocating one really. But I notice you mention 'upwardly mobile' while saying wealth has no bearing on the issue. How does someone who is stupid become upwardly mobile? Let's say someone who is a good person: courage, pride, honor, dignity.. but is too stupid to find a job that pays more than the minimum and will NEVER have retirement, will never be able to afford good medical care, will never find a way forward let alone be upwardly mobile... it is extremely hard to have pride when you are forced to scrounge around the bottom of society. Sorry, there are too many flaws in fascist conservativism. The situation is complex and the solutions have to be complex.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
1399. LargoFl
Quoting SPLbeater:


can you tell the GFS that i ddint get enough snow and to adjust its forecast to drop me 6in? then it can go fool with the NE? :)
SPL is this why my area has a 70% chance of rain friday next? whats coming?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Bye, gonna go do something constructive
Also here is a video of rain/wintry mix in Sioux Falls.
Another one Here
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9725
Quoting RTSplayer:
Additionally, and this may offend some, but we live in a civilization that will literally pay a bartender or a singer far more than a worker or an engineer who builds houses or roads or bridges.


I used to do tax returns, and I am also a tee-total and never drink or go to bars.

The first time I did a tax return for a person who was a bar tender I was at first absolutely shocked, and then furious at the fact that their income turned out to be higher than the majority of full time workers in honest professions. All to feed someone else's addictions.

The stupid thing is, they made more money than me, and it was a basic tax return that requires about 5th grade level math to do, but they had to come to a tax office to get it done.

How is that fair that a person can make more money in this country promoting the selling of a substance that usually leads to accidents and indecent and immoral behavior, compared to a person who has a real job?

Heck, they made more money than my sister, and my sister is an RN.

How can that be a good thing? That's an abominable blight on our civilization.
so what your saying is being a bartender is a not an honest occupation?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting NaplesWebDesigner56:

Tell your sister to stop tipping the male bartenders so much. As an registered nurse, shouldn't she know better?

Yes, this world is a crazy place. ;-)


My sister is a tee-totaler too.
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 33 Comments: 1520
Quoting SPLbeater:


you are SOOOOOOO wrong.

My church is NOT a busniness.

You probably dont even know the meaning of the quoted verses


I thought I already told you that wasn't the case, but you ignored that.

Like I told you, I was raised extremely literalist. Most of my extended family were baptists, but my father and uncle were Pentecostal, non-denominational or AoG, not UPC. I've attended many different churches, and like I said before, sat under household name preachers, bought all their commentary and literature and read it all, and the Bible many times. Even was at one time close enough to the inner circle of one group to be allowed a minor guest appearance on their radio show, although in hindsight this was more or less some sort of grooming attempt on their part. Open discussion was "fake", because there was always an unspoken rule that nobody was going to ask any controversial questions,etc, which is always the case.

I used to hang out with the seminary students, and for a while was planning on going to seminary, but decided against it because of the degree of corruption and abuse involved in it all.

If I don't understand it, then probably nobody does either. At least I got no good reason to believe their view above my own at this point.

Maybe you're naive, or maybe you're just blinded by it all, which is quite easy to happen, or maybe, just maybe you happened to pick the right "one in a million" place that isn't run such a way.

I've visited several and been around enough to know that.



And not jus tthe Christians who should follow Jesus. ALL the world has the best option, and thats to follow Jesus!


When the Christian church comes up with a way to first of all be what they claim they are, and second of all actually convince the world, instead of just playing church, let me know.

I'd like to be a part of it if it was real.

The fake and the abuses I can do without.

I have suffered certain indignities and injustices at the hands of the "church" which are inexcusable in ordinary human context, and some have suffered much worse. I went from one to the other and find the same things happening in one form or another. Forgive them, yes, but I will never trust the "church" again.
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 33 Comments: 1520
1394. MahFL
Quoting SPLbeater:


i said THE REST, not all. heck i dont even want all that money, its useless to me. all i would like is maybe....hmm...maybe 500k that should fulfill everything i would like to have :)


Is it safe to assume, you'd still be living in your moms house ?
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Got it. Thanks.
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Quoting SPLbeater:
Hey georgiaStormz, if i dont have any snow to throw at you, can you accept 35 degree temperatures?



I have that.I will take no alternative.Snow or nothing =)

Also, have you told the NWS what you think about preview.weather.gov, the eventual replacement for weather.gov?
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9725
im leaving before i get sucked into another blog mess.

Kudos to the GOOD weather bloggers, who have stayed idle in the nonsense(or lurking to avoid trouble) i shall now follow suit.

:D
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting TampaCat5:

Cat5? Huh?


if anybody had alot of alt accounts, or 'sockpuppets' it would probably be Neapolitan. just ignore Nea if he messes with you, he does that to everyone:)

Besides, people dont join in 2006 to troll in 2012.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Hey georgiaStormz, if i dont have any snow to throw at you, can you accept 35 degree temperatures?

Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting Neapolitan:
Oh, so sorry, Cat5, but I have you (and all your sockpuppets) blocked from WUmailing me. A dozen separate and obscene WUmails from a dozen separate handles in the past two days? Seriously? ;-)

I see that the UK is bouncing back nicely from the cold snap; there are a number of high temperature records being challenged, tied, or set. I imagine that's quite a relief...

Cat5? Huh?
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Quoting EllenPettit:
Nea, you have WU mail.
Oh, so sorry, Cat5Hurricane, but I have you (and all your sockpuppets) blocked from WUmailing me. A dozen separate and obscene WUmails from a dozen separate handles in the past two days? Seriously? ;-)

I see that the UK is bouncing back nicely from the cold snap; there are a number of high temperature records being challenged, tied, or set again today. I imagine that's quite a relief...
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13509
Heavy rain/sleet/snow/unknown precip
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9725
How come on photos, the numbers of posts and comments I have left on blogs, aint there? it starts over..never noticed that..
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
The NOGAPS has hung onto its forecast of 3 more S IO systems...consistent with a system coming off of Java, Indonesia. also forecasting a BIG system to possibly slam N Madagascar.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Thank you Dr. Masters for being a voice of sanity in an insane world (country)!
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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