Heartland Institute documents reveal strategy of attacks against climate science

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:15 PM GMT on February 17, 2012

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Documents illegally leaked from the Heartland Institute, one of the most active groups engaged in attacking the science of climate change, provide an unprecedented look into how these groups operate. The story was broken Tuesday by DeSmogBlog, a website dedicated to exposing false claims about climate change science. The documents reveal that donors to Heartland included oil billionaire Charles Koch, and Heartland has spent several million dollars over the past five years to undermine climate science. Tens of thousands of dollars are slated to go this year to well-known climate contrarians S.Fred Singer, Craig Idso, and Anthony Watts of the Watts Up With That? website. Naturally, the leaked documents have lit up the blogosphere, but none of the revelations are particularly surprising. The U.S. has a very successful and well-funded climate change denial industry, primarily funded by fossil fuel companies, that has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past few decades on a PR campaign against climate change science. I made a lengthy post on the subject in 2009 called, The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy. I won't say more here, but getenergysmartnow.com has compiled a long list of blogs that have interesting posts on the Heartland Institute affair for those interested in following this story.



Eight books challenging the Manufactured Doubt industry
Important scientific findings should always be challenged with the goal of finding flaws and improving our scientific understanding. But there's nothing a scientist hates more than to see good science attacked and the reputations of good scientists smeared in name of protecting corporate profits or ideology. A number of scientists have fought back against the recent unfounded assaults on climate change science by publishing books calling attention to the Manufactured Doubt industry's tactics and goals. Anyone priding themselves on being a open-minded skeptic of human-caused global warming should challenge their skepticism by reading one of these works. I thought so highly of Unscientific America, Merchants of Doubt, and Climate Coverup, that I donated 50 copies of these books to undergraduates at the University of Michigan last year. Here's a short synopsis of eight books published in the past three years defending climate change science against the attacks of the Manufactured Doubt industry:

Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway. If you're going to read one book on the attacks on climate science, this should probably be the one--Dr. Oreskes, a history professor at UC San Diego, was voted climate change communicator of the year in 2011. A review of Merchants of Doubt and a video of her defending her book against skeptics is at climateprogress.org, my favorite website for staying current on the politics of climate change. From the review: "Make the journey with them, and you’ll see renowned scientists abandon science, you’ll see environmentalism equated with communism, and you’ll discover the connection between the Cold War and climate denial. And for the most part, you’ll be entertained along the way."

Climate Cover-up: The Crusade to Deny Global Warming, by desmogblog.com co-founders James Hoggan and Richard Littlemore. The main author, James Hoggan, owns a Canadian public relations firm, and is intimately familiar with how public relations campaigns work. It's another fascinating and very readable book.

Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future, by science writer Chris Mooney. He writes a blog focusing on science communication called the intersection. This is a fantastic book, and should be required reading for all college science majors.

Climate Change Denial: Heads in the Sand, by Haydn Washington and John Cook. John Cook writes for one of my favorite climate science blogs, skepticalscience.com, which focuses on debunking false skeptic claims about climate science. The book does a great job debunking all the classic climate change denial arguments.

Doubt is Their Product: How Industry's Assault on Science Threatens Your Health, by George Washington University epidemiologist David Michaels, who now heads the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA). This meticulously-researched book has just one chapter on climate change, and focuses more on tobacco and hazardous chemicals. About the the tobacco industry's Manufactured Doubt campaigns, Michaels wrote: "the industry understood that the public is in no position to distinguish good science from bad. Create doubt, uncertainty, and confusion. Throw mud at the anti-smoking research under the assumption that some of it is bound to stick. And buy time, lots of it, in the bargain". The title of Michaels' book comes from a 1969 memo from a tobacco company executive: "Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the 'body of fact' that exists in the minds of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy".

The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines, by climate scientist Dr. Michael Mann. Dr. Mann is the originator of the much-debated "hockey stick" graph of global temperatures over the past 1,000 years, which looks like a hockey stick due to the sharp increase in temperatures in recent decades. This book just came out last week, and I hope to write a review on it this spring. Dr. Mann is one of the main contributors to my favorite web site for staying current on climate change research, realclimate.org. John Cook of skepticalscience.com wrote a review, calling it "an eye-opening account of the lengths the opponents of climate science will go to in their campaign to slander climate scientists and distract the public from the realities of human caused global warming."

Fool Me Twice: Fighting the Assault on Science in America by Shawn Lawrence Otto. I haven't had a chance to read this one yet, but it looks interesting. A review by Katherine O’Konski of Climate Science Watch called the book "a fascinating look at the status of science in American society."

The Inquisition of Climate Science, by Dr. James Lawrence Powell, a geochemist with a distinguished career as a college teacher, college president, museum director, and author of books on earth science for general audiences. I haven't read it, but John Cook of skepticalscience.com wrote a review, calling it "a must-read for anyone who wishes to understand the full scope of the denial industry and their modern day persecution of climate science."

Have a great weekend, everyone! I'll be taking a few vacation days next week, and wunderground meteorologist Angela Fritz will probably be doing most of the blogging for me during the coming week.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

a 30% chance of Severe Weather does not mean that there is a 70% chance it will not occur. It means there is the potential for a relatively significant severe weather outbreak.

Man, what got into everybody tody? It's Friday! Enjoy it like me!

[posted from school]


I think im the only school out right now :P
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6539
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

a 30% chance of Severe Weather does not mean that there is a 70% chance it will not occur. It means there is the potential for a relatively significant severe weather outbreak.

Man, what got into everybody tody? It's Friday! Enjoy it like me!

[posted from school]


Im telling your mom
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting aspectre:
30% tells me that the odds are 7to3 that severe weather won't happen.
The last set of atmospheric instability charts posted here appeared to show that it's unlikely that clouds will be rollin'&rockin', let alone howling&twistin'.
So what's that leave as severe weather?

a 30% chance of Severe Weather does not mean that there is a 70% chance it will not occur. It means there is the potential for a relatively significant severe weather outbreak.

Man, what got into everybody tody? It's Friday! Enjoy it like me!

[posted from school]
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 32285
I never take a post from someone and post here.

But in this case, Im going to make a extreme exception, because sometimes, its worth it to pass on the thoughts of another that are as profound as the words used to expound it.


Dr. Ricky Rood's entry


Quoting greentortuloni:
Deserves posting in full (link is above, in source comment):

The Heartland Institute yesterday lashed out at the blogosphere for reporting on the contents of leaked documents that appeared on DeSmogBlog late in the night of February 14. It was material that, if legit, implies Heartland is guilty of spreading dangerous disinformation simply to make a buck (something it has long accused climate scientists of doing).

Heartland, a nominally Libertarian think tank, is one of the loudest voices in the climate-change denial choir, yet its prepared statement contained, among threats and hedged denial, this appeal to the better angels of our nature:

"...honest disagreement should never be used to justify the criminal acts and fraud that occurred in the past 24 hours, the statement said. As a matter of common decency and journalistic ethics, we ask everyone in the climate change debate to sit back and think about what just happened.

Yes, let's think of what just happened and why stop 24 hours ago (or, more accurately, 48 hours ago at this point)? Why not go back a decade or even two? Or a century? Or longer?

Let's think of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which aggregates research from thousands of scientists and then summarizes it in conservative assessment reports that have been vetted hundreds of times over before being released to the public.

Let's think of the people who attack the IPCC people who have no qualms about pulling isolated sentences out of early drafts of thousand-page documents and then using them to try and discredit an entire body of research.

Let's think of climate scientists geeky types who, for the most part, grew up with a sense of wonder at the world around them, devoted their lives to learning, and now spend their time modeling clouds and currents or digging into ice sheets.

Let's think of the community of climate science which spent the last century modeling the skies and the seas as early generations grew old and died and subsequent generations carried on, tested the theories, discarded the ones that didn't hold up, and kept the ones that did.

Let's think of how the notion emerged that man's activities were first going to alter the atmosphere, then might be altering the atmosphere, and %u2013 finally were almost certainly altering the atmosphere.

Let's think of how this evidence slowly began to mount across the scientific community, how it came into focus from data points across the globe, from ice sheets and tree rings to physical measurements.

Let's think of how scientists as is their wont questioned this evidence, attacked it honestly disagreed with it until they had no choice but to acknowledge that their worst fears were, in fact, coming true.

Let%'s think of how they came to realize that our current practices were bringing us to a cliff that will kill our crops, dry our prairies, and destroy our economy. Let's think of the subsistence farmers in Kenya who are currently suffering a drought that Arizonans can't even comprehend, or the indigenous tribes of the Amazon who will suffer under climate change or the mass migrations that will threaten our national security.

Let's think of the absurd belief that a global community of highly-educated scientists would collude to create a false body of knowledge just so they can make a buck.

Let's think of the military, which is already taking steps to protect us from the consequences of our own apathy.

And let's think of the unsavory tactics that were used to discredit credible scientists tactics that have been documented over and over again in books like Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway and Climate Cover-Up: The Crusade to Deny Global Warming by James Hoggan with Richard Littlemore (who also launched the DeSmogBlog in 2006).

Let's think of the consequences of these tactics of the inexpensive solutions that have been deferred and made unnecessarily expensive as a result, and of the nasty tone of our rhetoric a tone that doesn't come naturally to most of us, but which we will adapt if we have to.

Let's think of a shepherd tending his flock, threatened by vandals. Let's think of the moment he puts down his staff and takes up his spear. Let's think of the costs of that action: the untended flock, the unwoven coat, the uneaten meat. Let's weigh that against the cost of inaction.

Yes, let's think of what just happened and why it happened, and what's at stake, and what we can do about it. Let's look at the science and not the subterfuge. Let's examine the costs of action and weigh them against the costs of inaction. Let's examine the evidence for and against, and weigh the veracity of of both.

Let's get real.
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Quoting JeffMasters:


I tend not to say much about a severe weather threat if SPC is putting it in the slight risk category. Also, the Virginia snow storm looks pretty ordinary. So, today was just about the climate change storm.

Jeff Masters


Thanks for the reply about it because you did state yesterday that it would be in your new post. You cleared it up with that comment. Everyone can return to their regularly scheduled climate change arguments.
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So if a private company spends $5M to advocate the questioning of the science of global warming is in someway a sinister plot, how should we look at the billions spent by governments around the world promoting global warming in order to raise taxes on industries that don't fit their politics or subsidizing "green" companies such as Solyndra with tax payer dollars. At least the Koch brothers are using their own money; the US government is borrowing money against my future grandchildren to support a theory (a term used by scientists to describe an idea that is not proven)that is being studied by scientists from both camps. A little context; consensus is from the Latin "feel together".
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Quoting JeffMasters:


I tend not to say much about a severe weather threat if SPC is putting it in the slight risk category. Also, the Virginia snow storm looks pretty ordinary. So, today was just about the climate change storm.

Jeff Masters



It's not gonna be ordinary :( ITS GONNA BE AWESOME
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Quoting aspectre:
30% tells me that the odds are 7to3 that severe weather won't happen.
The last set of atmospheric instability charts posted here appeared to show that it's unlikely that clouds will be rollin'&rockin', let alone howling&twistin'.
So what's that leave as severe weather?


You apparently have no grasp of how the percentages from the SPC and/or severe weather work.
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This stinks... Looks like quite a few parades will be rained out... thanks
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6539
Quoting ncstorm:
Oh no, how dare I state that I disagree with the topic or Dr. Masters. I guess I will go suck it now and earn a living. LOL, you guys have a good one!

For those in the path of the storms this weekend, please be safe!


I hope you know my suck one, was out of sarcastic love, keep your head down saturday night NC.
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70. JeffMasters (Admin)
Quoting TampaSpin:
Dr. Masters.....CLIMATE CHANGE STUFF and nothing about the SEVERE WEATHER THREAT...the agenda is obvious!


I tend not to say much about a severe weather threat if SPC is putting it in the slight risk category. Also, the Virginia snow storm looks pretty ordinary. So, today was just about the climate change storm.

Jeff Masters
Quoting happylds:
So he "donated" 50 copies of the books? Sounds like a campaign to subvert the minds of impressionable college kids. And if so, I guess Jeff has an agenda. So what? Most people do. Everyone knows the climate is changing, but the question is whether MAN is causing it or not. Those who profit from the solutions that are proposed, or seek gain power from the regulations that are imposed--they are the bad guys. Jeff still comes up with great stats and information. Our job is to wade through the stupid (like this part of his agenda) in order to glean the intelligent.


"Everyone knows the climate is changing"

Huh? Many deniers are still denying that the climate is changing.

"the question is whether MAN is causing it or not"

Not for science. The role of humans is well understood.

"Those who profit from the solutions that are proposed, or seek gain power from the regulations that are imposed--they are the bad guys."

Who might those people be? The people who are building wind farms are bad guys? The folks installing solar panels on their roofs are bad guys? People working to invent better/cheaper EV batteries are bad guys?

Are they "bad guys" because they might take profits away from the coal and oil industries?

"Our job is to wade through the stupid (like this part of his agenda) in order to glean the intelligent."

Who are the "our"? Those who have a financial/political need to deny climate change and its causes? How can shutting your eyes to facts be an intelligent act?




Member Since: February 22, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1344
Quoting aspectre:
30% tells me that the odds are 7to3 that severe weather won't happen.
The last set of atmospheric instability charts posted here appeared to show that it's unlikely that clouds will be rollin'&rockin', let alone howling&twistin'.
So what's that leave as severe weather?


I have never seen a time where the SPC has put a 30% out and severe weather of some sort did not happen.
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Oh no, how dare I state that I disagree with the topic or Dr. Masters. I guess I will go suck it now and earn a living. LOL, you guys have a good one!

For those in the path of the storms this weekend, please be safe!
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
30% tells me that the odds are 7to3 that severe weather won't happen.
The last set of atmospheric instability charts posted here appeared to show that it's unlikely that clouds will be rollin'&rockin', let alone howlin'&twistin'.
So what's that leave as severe weather?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting weatherh98:


Im actually pretty happy we had a warm winter,... the last few have been pretty bad... Great strawberries this year because of it


I do love strawberries, heres a link to the model runs btw.

Link
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Here is the beginning of your weekend weatherh98:


This came from Here
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9731
Quoting ncstorm:


Our local NWS is saying it will be all about timing when the cold air catches up with the precipitation..right now they are calling for a few flurries..Im most concerned with the Severe weather threat which is supposed to happen overnight on Saturday which everyone knows having tornado threats in the middle of the night is nerve wracking.
good luck up there and be safe
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Quoting MississippiWx:


Eh, something like that. Thanks to climate change, we've actually had several snows the past 3 years. I can't complain if it doesn't snow this year.

(See how I threw climate change into my comment so I could stay on topic?)


Im actually pretty happy we had a warm winter,... the last few have been pretty bad... Great strawberries this year because of it
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6539
61. JeffMasters (Admin)
Quoting BobWallace:


Do you have a link for that claim?

I've seen some speculation but nothing that offered proof.

The speculation seemed to me to be an attempt to cast doubt, it did not seem credible.


As far as I've seen, the documents detailing the finances have been acknowledged as true. The one strategy document talking about cultivating Andy Revkin and Judith Curry as allies has been challenged.

Jeff Masters
Quoting biff4ugo:
#37 WHAT IS GOING ON IN CANADA!???
It looks like a bad trip from the 70's on the weather map you posted, and mostly just over the north border of the US.
Is that the location of the arctic jet?


I think Canada is just a big snow hog and doesnt want the U.S. to have any.
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Quoting MississippiWx:


Eh, something like that. Thanks to climate change, we've actually had several snows the past 3 years. I can't complain if it doesn't snow this year.

(See how I threw climate change into my comment so I could stay on topic?)


Thanks to climate change, I have a test in astrophysics on tuesday, would love for that to be canceled due to climate change.
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Quoting biff4ugo:
#37 WHAT IS GOING ON IN CANADA!???
It looks like a bad trip from the 70's on the weather map you posted, and mostly just over the north border of the US.
Is that the location of the arctic jet?


I don't believe that is a Temperature map but a Precip Map for Snow.
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Hello all, I'm in Louisiana (north of nola)do any of yall have a link for a forecast model for this weekend?
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6539
Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


People in mississippi melt in the snow I thought?


Eh, something like that. Thanks to climate change, we've actually had several snows the past 3 years. I can't complain if it doesn't snow this year.

(See how I threw climate change into my comment so I could stay on topic?)
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Here is your cold shot:


Might bring a little storms but it is a while out
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9731
#37 WHAT IS GOING ON IN CANADA!???
It looks like a bad trip from the 70's on the weather map you posted, and mostly just over the north border of the US.
Is that the location of the arctic jet?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting biff4ugo:
Getting some MUCH needed rain in NC Florida just now.
The water we have been moving to drought stricken lakes has just been evaporating, with little change to lake levels. Hoping to finally see a decent bump in the hydrographs.

It may be only a change in mood, but it seems like the general public has started to accept that sea level is rising! Yes the rate is up for debate, but up until now Any discussion of the slow rise of the ocean level over the last hundred years seemed to cause a clamor from the general public and climate conservatives. Now when reports come out, the public is asking more intelligent questions about rate and affects.

YEA!!!!
great news, we also have gotten a little rain too, next 3 days the chances go up so maybe we too will get the good rains for awhile
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Quoting jbstrick:
Ummm Dr. Masters. Some of these documents have been proven to be falsified.


Do you have a link for that claim?

I've seen some speculation but nothing that offered proof.

The speculation seemed to me to be an attempt to cast doubt, it did not seem credible.
Member Since: February 22, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1344
Quoting MississippiWx:


You stink. We want the snow!


People in mississippi melt in the snow I thought?
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:
12z GFS map:


LOL.

Never gave it much thought, but can anybody name every county and parish in the U.S.
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 33 Comments: 1520
YEAH NCSTORM, SUCK ONE.
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:
Hey Hey Hey, cant we all just get along and be excited I'm about to get a couple inches of snow?!


You stink. We want the snow!
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Hey Hey Hey, cant we all just get along and be excited I'm about to get a couple inches of snow?!
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Getting some MUCH needed rain in NC Florida just now.
The water we have been moving to drought stricken lakes has just been evaporating, with little change to lake levels. Hoping to finally see a decent bump in the hydrographs.

It may be only a change in mood, but it seems like the general public has started to accept that sea level is rising! Yes the rate is up for debate, but up until now Any discussion of the slow rise of the ocean level over the last hundred years seemed to cause a clamor from the general public and climate conservatives. Now when reports come out, the public is asking more intelligent questions about rate and affects.

YEA!!!!
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Quoting ncstorm:


You need to pick a side and stick with it. When I scrolled up to read the comments, you insinuated about not being happy about the climate change discussion either. You just jump on any bandwagon that is happening to be passing by.


NOPE I am unhappy with DR. Masters Post.....but, i was just saying it is his post to choose as he pleases.....and frankly i don't understand at all him posting this CRAP...during a Severe Weather Event that he says nothing about. MAKES NO SENSE....but, it is his blog to post what he thinks is most important! I WAS JUST TRYING TO BE NICE WITHOUT YOU REALZING IT ....now see what you did:)
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ncstorm

I didnt sign up for climate change posts


Now that's a mouthful,LOL




Your ignorance is only surpassed by your lack of Civility...

Dude.
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So he "donated" 50 copies of the books? Sounds like a campaign to subvert the minds of impressionable college kids. And if so, I guess Jeff has an agenda. So what? Most people do. Everyone knows the climate is changing, but the question is whether MAN is causing it or not. Those who profit from the solutions that are proposed, or seek gain power from the regulations that are imposed--they are the bad guys. Jeff still comes up with great stats and information. Our job is to wade through the stupid (like this part of his agenda) in order to glean the intelligent.
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Lol...Way to go, aspectre. Made a mountain out of a molehill, then left for everyone else to deal with it. :-)
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Japan Meteorological Agency
Tropical Cyclone Advisory #4
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 01
0:00 AM JST February 18 2012
==================================

SUBJECT: TROPICAL DEPRESSION IN SOUTH CHINA SEA

At 15:00 PM UTC, Tropical Depression (1006 hPa) located at 9.4N 114.4E has 10 minute sustained winds of 30 knots with gusts of 45 knots. The depression is reported as moving west slowly.

Dvorak Intensity: T2.0

Forecast and Intensity
========================

24 HRS: 9.0N 112.2E - 35 knots (CAT 1/Tropical Storm)

The next tropical cyclone advisory from Japan Meteorological Agency will be issued at 18:50 PM UTC..
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Quoting TampaSpin:



It is the DR's Blog to post what he likes. Maybe it was not as important as Climate Change. Yes we are all concerned about Climate Change also tho!


You need to pick a side and stick with it. When I scrolled up to read the comments, you insinuated about not being happy about the climate change discussion either. You just jump on any bandwagon that is happening to be passing by.
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Ummm Dr. Masters. Some of these documents have been proven to be falsified.
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Quoting Patrap:
What happened to this blog?


This blog?

This entry is the site's creator and he can blog about his Grandmother's recipes if he likes sport.

Where is YOUR Blog? one should be asking. Get a grip, get a topic, and BLOG about it.

We have beaucoup server space for one more I DO believe.


Oh Patrap..you still here? Well, I dont have time to post youtube videos all day as some people do or create blogs because I work for a living but hey you are correct, this is Dr. Masters blog but when I signed up in 2006, I didnt sign up for climate change posts. But since I am here now, I guess I will go ahead and create a blog with youtube videos because I have to do my part in having a blog as well to inform the public of my weather views.
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12z GFS map:
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Quoting Chapelhill:
Some of the worst tornadoes (other than last April's)in NC have occured in the overnight hours. There seems to be a secondary maximinum for severe weather then.


I have always believed the same.....the change from day to night dynamcis seems to play a part.
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Quoting ncstorm:


Our local NWS is saying it will be all about timing when the cold air catches up with the precipitation..right now they are calling for a few flurries..Im most concerned with the Severe weather threat which is supposed to happen overnight on Saturday which everyone knows having tornado threats in the middle of the night is nerve wracking.
Some of the worst tornadoes (other than last April's)in NC have occured in the overnight hours. There seems to be a secondary maximinum for severe weather then.
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Quoting Patrap:
What happened to this blog?


This blog?

This entry is the site's creator and he can blog about his Grandmother's recipes if he likes sport.

Where is YOUR Blog? one should be asking. Get a grip, get a topic, and BLOG about it.

We have beaucoup server space for one more I DO believe.


touche'

Pat you got some wicked RAIN heading toward ya....hope them pumps are working.....
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Quoting ncstorm:
I came back today since hurricane season to check the blog for the severe weather potential and I see the same climate change discussion is still evident. Wowwwww..What happened to this blog?



It is the DR's Blog to post what he likes. Maybe it was not as important as Climate Change. Yes we are all concerned about Climate Change also tho!
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


GEEK im so excited, did you see the 12z NAM snowfall map?


Yeah, I did! I still think that it will adjust north through tonight, but it's done pretty well so far with the track. Good snow event for north-central VA!
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What happened to this blog?


This blog?

This entry is the site's creator and he can blog about his Grandmother's recipes if he likes sport.

Where is YOUR Blog? one should be asking. Get a grip, get a topic, and BLOG about it.

We have beaucoup server space for one more I DO believe.
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Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


GEEK im so excited, did you see the 12z NAM snowfall map?





I posted this above as well.
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.