Heartland Institute documents reveal strategy of attacks against climate science

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:15 PM GMT on February 17, 2012

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Documents illegally leaked from the Heartland Institute, one of the most active groups engaged in attacking the science of climate change, provide an unprecedented look into how these groups operate. The story was broken Tuesday by DeSmogBlog, a website dedicated to exposing false claims about climate change science. The documents reveal that donors to Heartland included oil billionaire Charles Koch, and Heartland has spent several million dollars over the past five years to undermine climate science. Tens of thousands of dollars are slated to go this year to well-known climate contrarians S.Fred Singer, Craig Idso, and Anthony Watts of the Watts Up With That? website. Naturally, the leaked documents have lit up the blogosphere, but none of the revelations are particularly surprising. The U.S. has a very successful and well-funded climate change denial industry, primarily funded by fossil fuel companies, that has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past few decades on a PR campaign against climate change science. I made a lengthy post on the subject in 2009 called, The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy. I won't say more here, but getenergysmartnow.com has compiled a long list of blogs that have interesting posts on the Heartland Institute affair for those interested in following this story.



Eight books challenging the Manufactured Doubt industry
Important scientific findings should always be challenged with the goal of finding flaws and improving our scientific understanding. But there's nothing a scientist hates more than to see good science attacked and the reputations of good scientists smeared in name of protecting corporate profits or ideology. A number of scientists have fought back against the recent unfounded assaults on climate change science by publishing books calling attention to the Manufactured Doubt industry's tactics and goals. Anyone priding themselves on being a open-minded skeptic of human-caused global warming should challenge their skepticism by reading one of these works. I thought so highly of Unscientific America, Merchants of Doubt, and Climate Coverup, that I donated 50 copies of these books to undergraduates at the University of Michigan last year. Here's a short synopsis of eight books published in the past three years defending climate change science against the attacks of the Manufactured Doubt industry:

Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway. If you're going to read one book on the attacks on climate science, this should probably be the one--Dr. Oreskes, a history professor at UC San Diego, was voted climate change communicator of the year in 2011. A review of Merchants of Doubt and a video of her defending her book against skeptics is at climateprogress.org, my favorite website for staying current on the politics of climate change. From the review: "Make the journey with them, and you’ll see renowned scientists abandon science, you’ll see environmentalism equated with communism, and you’ll discover the connection between the Cold War and climate denial. And for the most part, you’ll be entertained along the way."

Climate Cover-up: The Crusade to Deny Global Warming, by desmogblog.com co-founders James Hoggan and Richard Littlemore. The main author, James Hoggan, owns a Canadian public relations firm, and is intimately familiar with how public relations campaigns work. It's another fascinating and very readable book.

Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future, by science writer Chris Mooney. He writes a blog focusing on science communication called the intersection. This is a fantastic book, and should be required reading for all college science majors.

Climate Change Denial: Heads in the Sand, by Haydn Washington and John Cook. John Cook writes for one of my favorite climate science blogs, skepticalscience.com, which focuses on debunking false skeptic claims about climate science. The book does a great job debunking all the classic climate change denial arguments.

Doubt is Their Product: How Industry's Assault on Science Threatens Your Health, by George Washington University epidemiologist David Michaels, who now heads the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA). This meticulously-researched book has just one chapter on climate change, and focuses more on tobacco and hazardous chemicals. About the the tobacco industry's Manufactured Doubt campaigns, Michaels wrote: "the industry understood that the public is in no position to distinguish good science from bad. Create doubt, uncertainty, and confusion. Throw mud at the anti-smoking research under the assumption that some of it is bound to stick. And buy time, lots of it, in the bargain". The title of Michaels' book comes from a 1969 memo from a tobacco company executive: "Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the 'body of fact' that exists in the minds of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy".

The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines, by climate scientist Dr. Michael Mann. Dr. Mann is the originator of the much-debated "hockey stick" graph of global temperatures over the past 1,000 years, which looks like a hockey stick due to the sharp increase in temperatures in recent decades. This book just came out last week, and I hope to write a review on it this spring. Dr. Mann is one of the main contributors to my favorite web site for staying current on climate change research, realclimate.org. John Cook of skepticalscience.com wrote a review, calling it "an eye-opening account of the lengths the opponents of climate science will go to in their campaign to slander climate scientists and distract the public from the realities of human caused global warming."

Fool Me Twice: Fighting the Assault on Science in America by Shawn Lawrence Otto. I haven't had a chance to read this one yet, but it looks interesting. A review by Katherine O’Konski of Climate Science Watch called the book "a fascinating look at the status of science in American society."

The Inquisition of Climate Science, by Dr. James Lawrence Powell, a geochemist with a distinguished career as a college teacher, college president, museum director, and author of books on earth science for general audiences. I haven't read it, but John Cook of skepticalscience.com wrote a review, calling it "a must-read for anyone who wishes to understand the full scope of the denial industry and their modern day persecution of climate science."

Have a great weekend, everyone! I'll be taking a few vacation days next week, and wunderground meteorologist Angela Fritz will probably be doing most of the blogging for me during the coming week.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting wxmod:


Monkeys don't do science. If they tried to do science, it wouldn't be very good science because the big tough monkeys would alter the results to make the babe monkeys like them better.


what?
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Quoting GeorgiaStormz:

That is not .25 inches of snow, that is a winter's worth for me, that looks like .75 inches

And looks awesome in Sioux Falls:
Link
Link


i dont think uncwhurricane85 knows that i put a . before the 25. does anybody know how much a quarter inch is? its barely enough to cover decks, and other flat surfaces. you can still see grass through it easily, so that photo is more likely to be 1.25in

IMO
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
We cannot fathom things of this size, whether it be God or a bang, we mmay not know
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6461
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Here we go. :P


That is not .25 inches of snow, that is a winter's worth for me, that looks like .75 inches

And looks awesome in Sioux Falls:
Link
Link
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9720
1526. wxmod
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


if the world would put as much energy into science/tech as they do religion, we wouldnt have an oil/energy/global warming issue!!


Monkeys don't do science. If they tried to do science, it wouldn't be very good science because the big tough monkeys would alter the results to make the babe monkeys like them better.
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Quoting RitaEvac:


Problem is, in America every time you catch a ride, they'll charge something like $5 here and there and everywhere and basically we're right back to where we are with high gas prices. This country is full of greed and always out to profit.


Well, if you take into consideration the fact that it costs something like $0.50 per mile to drive a private car then $5 for a long bus ride isn't all that bad a deal.

City buses are more in the $1.50 range (my experience). Lots cheaper than driving. One doesn't have to ride far before taking the bus is cheaper than driving.

Of course there's lots of desire to make a profit. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's a reasonable profit and others aren't damaged in the attempt.



Member Since: February 22, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1344
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


If it is an accident, why bother?
So we can fall into the sun in a little(long) while, or get struck by another cosmic accident like a comet?

In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Done.


Now please can we talk about weather before we all get troll wiped?

And also to whom it may concern:
6. No comments that contain only personal notes such as, "Good Morning!", or "You've got mail, X".


uh...Good afternoon? no, that would make me look like a smart guy...

How ya doin? yea that works.

I cannot count the comments/blogs i have reported that are advertising hair spray, shoes, and all that junk.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Science is not a theory like Religion is. Religion is based on "faith" and followers. Science is based on structured, tested, proven facts and hard evidence. Enough said.
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Quoting SPLbeater:
i have a something for all you big bang theory people; If the earth was just bang and it was here, how did the universe get here?
Not sure. But the scientific method isn't to say, "We don't understand it yet, so we'll just assume an old guy with a white beard made it." From such an ignorance-based thought process are creation myths--such as the biblical one--born. And while those myths often make for evocative and beautiful poetry, they're not at all satisfying for a person with a scientifically inquisitive mind.
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13461
Quoting weathers4me:
When are all you Bible Thumpers going to stop posting your views on a Tropical Weather Blog? There are plenty of other blogs you all can congreagte to help you justify man's existance here on Earth and feel better about yourselves.


Actually, there aren't any such blogs.

Virtually all of the ecumenical Christian forums are so heavily censored that you can't say anything true without getting banned. But nothing gets done on ecumenical christian sites because they don't actually believe in absolutes of any sort, therefore truth is pretty much a jingle word or some sort of joke.

the local churches and denominational forums are just as bad, just in different ways, because there, everyone believes that their doctrine or their version of the truth is absolute, and any attempt to reason with anyone just gets you banned.

And of course, the science forums delete and ban in most cases at the mere mention of God or the Bible or religion.

So you are wrong.

Freedom of speech seems to apply to almost everything in this country except religion and morality.
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Quoting weathers4me:
When are all you Bible Thumpers going to stop posting your views on a Tropical Weather Blog? There are plenty of other blogs you all can congreagte to help you justify man's existance here on Earth and feel better about yourselves. Why can't any of you just agree that our Earth is one big Cosmic accident. End of story. Be happy and be a good person and focus your energy on the important things in live such as family, friendship and getting a job. etc.



If it is an accident, why bother?
So we can fall into the sun in a little(long) while, or get struck by another cosmic accident like a comet?

In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Done.


Now please can we talk about weather before we all get troll wiped?

And also to whom it may concern:
6. No comments that contain only personal notes such as, "Good Morning!", or "You've got mail, X".
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 9720
Quoting SPLbeater:
i have a something for all you big bang theory people; If the earth was just bang and it was here, how did the universe get here?


I would prefer to not start throwing religion around but you catch my drift
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6461
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

Here we go. :P



thank you so much...i have never uploaded a photo to this site..still kinda new..but thanks again
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a href="[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26 9/033jg.jpg/][IMG]http://img269.imageshack.us/img2 69/2810/033jg.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL]" target="_blank">Link
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i have a something for all you big bang theory people; If the earth was just bang and it was here, how did the universe get here?
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


ok i think this is the one!!! ... .25 inches of snow i took in the back yard on my facebook washington d.c. around jan 3rd i think

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/033oy.jp g/


Think jpg and gif works
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6461
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


ok i think this is the one!!! ... .25 inches of snow i took in the back yard on my facebook washington d.c. around jan 3rd i think

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/033oy.jp g/

Here we go. :P

Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 31502
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

NO! It gave you less than an inch! :-)


NOOOOO!! It gave me more then 2 inches!!! =D
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

That is one of many theories. The other is The Big Bang Theory.



That theory is kind of weird because the universe is Speeding its rate outward, due to dark energy... not coming together
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6461
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

No.


ok i think this is the one!!! ... .25 inches of snow i took in the back yard on my facebook washington d.c. around jan 3rd i think

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/033oy.jp g/
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I am all for new technology an I made clear I think global warming is real an humans contribute to. I just doubt we can change it without drastic actions and I don't see how we can afford the expense of really changing the worlds view. When from what I seen the main difference in the worst countries co2 emission is wealth. The poorer the country the lower the emissions . Just because more democrats admit there is a problem it isn't very high on there list. Most actions we are taking equate to urinating on forest fire.
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Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

No.


GEEZ ok sorry hold on!! ill get it
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Link
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Quoting uncwhurricane85:


does this one work?

http://www.mypicx.com/02202012//


No.
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 31502
Man is going off the cliff this year. Myans never said the world was gonna end. A major changing event is underway. And it all points to...Economy, Currency, Fuel(Oil crisis)Religion, Greed, Class rank, and Weather (on earth and on the sun)

All of this will have an extraordinary situation that Man has never seen before. As we drive off the cliff...

Myans just know that the universe will line up perfectly for an extraordinary event and that is Fact
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Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

"The page you requested was not found."

Just right click on the image and click "Copy Image URL". Then take it here. Click the "Web" button and paste the URL there and hit Upload.

Then post it here.


does this one work?

http://www.mypicx.com/02202012//

Member Since: Posts: Comments:


The waters are Warm... Went fishing in the lake yesterday and they had lots of shrimp popping, caught a really big black drum and this fish (i am calling it line breaker) almost spooled me before popping some braided line, The fish were running very very big.
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6461
Quoting reedzone:
I'm reading posts on Christianity on here.. I'm a Christian, but NOT a perfect person. I make many mistakes, I can be bitter, and I'm the churchs keyboardist/worship leader. Why?? Why would Pastor allow me to do this while I am not a perfect person? It's simple.. I am a sinner SAVED by Grace. God forgives, and I will be judged when the time comes but that is for GOD to judge, not other people who are completely the same or worse. I agree with some on here that some Atheists know the bible more then us Christians. In fact, I rarely even read it, mainly because I don't like to read.. I urge to read it, but don't. Eventually that will change.. I don't have to be perfect to be a Christian, I just need to KNOW what I am doing and move on. Alot of Christians like Jimmy Swaggert think you cannot sin one time before going to hell, that rock and pop music is of the devil. Hell!!! I make pop music for a living, does that make me a sinner? God loves every type of music. The holier then thou Christians (which is alot in this this world) will be judged for their actions against the saved and unsaved. Only God is perfect.


Reed:

Swaggart doesn't say that (edit: at least not any more. If you dig some very old sermons from him, I'm sure he probably did say that in the past. I think he's learned his lesson since then, hopefully.)

Swaggart actually preaches against that doctrine, because "sinless perfection" is not a Biblical teaching.

I believe there are 4 basic concepts of the Swaggart doctrine which are distinguishing (edit: I didn't really list them distinctly here after all, oh well).

He claims to teach that a Christian can be "free" or have "victory" from sin through "faith in the cross of Christ", through "revelation" of deeper layers of faith and trust in God.

this is, according to him, supposed to apply to everything from the "seven deadly sins" to bad habits.

But he always makes it a point to state that he does NOT teach "sinless perfection".

Romans chapter 7 makes it blatantly obvious that sinless perfect is not possible, and moreover, doing right or wrong are not even a matter of mere "willpower", as Paul writes, "I find then that when I would do good, evil is present with me. Oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death!"

Outwardly, the Swaggarts focus a LOT on Romans 6 through 8, and Colosians 2, and pointing out the hypocrisy of other churches.

Unfortunately, they suffer from many of the same blind spots.


But what he doesn't tell you is that this simply does not ever work for some people.

You will hear testimony of people who broke drug and alcohol additions and sex addictions and things, sometimes allegedly instantly, sometimes over many years, but other people never experience that at all.


He preaches that the physical death of Jesus and the shed blood on the cross is the only means of all salvation and all sanctification and redemptive things from God towards man.

He teaches that works cannot save anyone, but that justification is through faith only.

He also points out that most Christians do not have faith in God or Jesus, but faith in themselves.

According to Swaggart, if you are trying to please God or better yourself, then you are doing something wrong, because you are focusing on self-efforts rather than faith, but that you have to simply "let go of self, and trust God to fix you through the Holy Spirit." and so on.

sounds very super spiritual, and there is much biblical precedent for it, and much more than I could care to write here anyway,I read volumes and volumes on the stuff.

But ultimately, it is also very much "gnostic" even though they outward preach against gnosticism, they just don't recognize their own teaching as being somewhat gnostic as well.


Swaggart is, however, an extremely radically right wing Pentecostal preacher in many respects, and his "fall" was good for him in many respects, because it at least started to teach him a lesson in humility.



On the surface, he is right, Romans chapters 6 through 8 is exactly what is wrong with everyone in Christianity.

I was a full time member at Swaggart's church for over 2 years, attending as much as 4 or 5 times a week, so I know their doctrines inside and out, and I know what they do in public and some of what goes on in secret.


I'm merely correcting a point that what you said is incorrect about him.

I have other matters of complaint against them, because they censor their radio program and forum from honest discussion, and abuse fund raising and sales practices, but I'll leave that alone. I've addressed them both privately and publicly in the past to no avail, and I don't think that I'm in any violation of Christian principles for saying so here either.

Been there, done that, tried it, and found out it didn't work. At least certainly not as advertised.
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Quoting SPLbeater:


NO, it gave me over 2 inches...the 12z gave me less then an inch. it was just, well, wrong at 00z =p

NO! It gave you less than an inch! :-)
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 31502
Quoting SPLbeater:


i cant agree that the earth is a cosmic accident because it wasnt a cosmic accident.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth.

That is one of many theories. The other is The Big Bang Theory.

Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 31502
Quoting TampaSpin:



BIBLE THUMPERS......things like this is what is wrong with this world. TOO BAD!


if the world would put as much energy into science/tech as they do religion, we wouldnt have an oil/energy/global warming issue!!
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Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

No, it obviously gave you less than an inch. :P


NO, it gave me over 2 inches...the 12z gave me less then an inch. it was just, well, wrong at 00z =p
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


can someone post this picture to SPLbeater so he can see what .25 inches of snow looks like!!! many thanks

"The page you requested was not found."

Just right click on the image and click "Copy Image URL". Then take it here. Click the "Web" button and paste the URL there and hit Upload.

Then post it here.
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 31502
Quoting weathers4me:
When are all you Bible Thumpers going to stop posting your views on a Tropical Weather Blog? There are plenty of other blogs you all can congreagte to help you justify man's existance here on Earth and feel better about yourselves. Why can't any of you just agree that our Earth is one big Cosmic accident. End of story. Be happy and be a good person and focus your energy on the important things in live such as family, friendship and getting a job. etc.



i cant agree that the earth is a cosmic accident because it wasnt a cosmic accident.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting weathers4me:
When are all you Bible Thumpers going to stop posting your views on a Tropical Weather Blog? There are plenty of other blogs you all can congreagte to help you justify man's existance here on Earth and feel better about yourselves. Why can't any of you just agree that our Earth is one big Cosmic accident. End of story. Be happy and be a good person and focus your energy on the important things in live such as family, friendship and getting a job. etc.




BIBLE THUMPERS......things like this is what is wrong with this world. TOO BAD!
Member Since: September 2, 2007 Posts: 178 Comments: 20439
BobWallace,
I agree with most of your recommendation. My point is I know plenty of poor non-religious people who vote republican. Me as one mainly for 2nd amendment reasons. I don't want a handout I want a job. My liberal comment was regarding the democratic party depending on lower middle class an the poor vote. $5 gas hurts them far more than any other group an we are hurting at $3.50 a gallon. Politicians in either party do an say what it takes to be elected. That is really all they care about dems & repubs.
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Quoting SPLbeater:


i think the ignore and bann,list is awesome!

it wasnt the 00z run that game me less then an inch, it was the 12z run i believe. the 00z run gave me over 2 inches.

:D

No, it obviously gave you less than an inch. :P
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 31502
Quoting reedzone:


Every model but the NAM predicted a wet/severe squall line (even the SPC bought into it.. and me). Instead, while the conditions are RIPE for tornadoes yesterday with highs in the lower 80s and heavy winds.. We got drizzle. The NAM was the only model that predicted the squall line to dissipate north of the Peninsula.



I have to admit I was expecting a strong squall line myself, I probably ignored the NAM completely because subconsciously I wanted a good storm I'm sure lol. And yes even the SPC bought into it.

NWS Ruskin did great with it though considering, even when the SPC issued the severe risk, the NWS over here chose to keep the precip forecast at 30% and left out any wording of strong to severe in the forecast.


Honestly its been a strange winter, I cannot think of a single frontal system since even fall that brought a significant strong thunderstorm event. At best there's been a few isolated areas that get something good, that's about it. Its been the quietest winter for strong thunderstorms activity I can think of in quite some time.
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Quoting reedzone:


Every model but the NAM predicted a wet/severe squall line (even the SPC bought into it.. and me). Instead, while the conditions are RIPE for tornadoes yesterday with highs in the lower 80s and heavy winds.. We got drizzle. The NAM was the only model that predicted the squall line to dissipate north of the Peninsula.



Winter models really stink at forecasting along with myself! The ULL just did not move down from the North to mix with the surface Low from the South, which was suppose to happen with nearly every model.....That just did not happen as the Surface Low out ran the ULL from the North!
Member Since: September 2, 2007 Posts: 178 Comments: 20439
When are all you Bible Thumpers going to stop posting your views on a Tropical Weather Blog? There are plenty of other blogs you all can congreagte to help you justify man's existance here on Earth and feel better about yourselves. Why can't any of you just agree that our Earth is one big Cosmic accident. End of story. Be happy and be a good person and focus your energy on the important things in live such as family, friendship and getting a job. etc.

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Quoting Patrap:
Well,since the Doc is away, the tech savant's will inhabit the space here.

So, off to Lundi Gras, and tomorrow, well, it will just be Tuesday most everywhere else.

Have a fine Monday.

Fat Tuesday and Lundi Gras schedule.


due to a girl(beautiful one at that) in my class that evacuated from katrina(native to NOLA)we became really good friends and Mardi Gras is something to me now. :D
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 46 Comments: 4481
Quoting Articuno:

Pasadena MD,
They got snow in the county south of us.


yeha im south of d.c. we got snow last night but no accumulation on the grass, just a hair on the cars and trucks
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Quoting uncwhurricane85:


this is a photo from my facebook i took on jan 3 in washington d.c.....this is what .25 inches of snow actually looks like

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.16802654 9971188.36823.100002915317361&type=3#!/photo.p hp?f bid=168029509970892&set=a.168026549971188.3682 3.10 0002915317361&type=3&theater


can someone post this picture to SPLbeater so he can see what .25 inches of snow looks like!!! many thanks
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1486. Patrap
Quoting a rogue cursing post will get the same bizz as the Poster.


Enjoy your blogging adventure today.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 421 Comments: 127592
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


me too!! bring the heat..where are you?

Pasadena MD,
They got snow in the county south of us.
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Quoting reedzone:


Every model but the NAM predicted a wet/severe squall line (even the SPC bought into it.. and me). Instead, while the conditions are RIPE for tornadoes yesterday with highs in the lower 80s and heavy winds.. We got drizzle. The NAM was the only model that predicted the squall line to dissipate north of the Peninsula.


Looking like Texas's setup last year for Florida, where everything dies out unexpectedly. It started last February for TX
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Quoting NaplesWebDesigner56:
Weather is so fucking boring, so let's just sit around, argue, bicker, fight, and critize each other like a teenager pissing contest about politics and religion. Good going guys.

Nea, you got mail.

Weather, politics and religion are all different things.
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1482. Patrap
Well,since the Doc is away, the tech savant's will inhabit the space here.

So, off to Lundi Gras, and tomorrow, well, it will just be Tuesday most everywhere else.

Have a fine Monday.

Fat Tuesday and Lundi Gras schedule.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 421 Comments: 127592
Quoting NaplesWebDesigner56:
Weather is so fucking boring, so let's just sit around, argue, bicker, fight, and critize each other like a teenager pissing contest about politics and religion. Good going guys.

Nea, you got mail.


hahah! i know, go to cspan or cnn and blog the BS, this is a weather blog...get it together!!!
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Quoting BobWallace:


Seems to me that there are few in the Republican party who don't fall into the "overly religious" or "very rich" categories.

I wouldn't describe the first group as overly religious, I'd describe them as very socially conservative and interested in forcing their life choices on the rest of us. The leading Republican candidate of the moment wants the US to follow the dictates of the Catholic Church.

I really don't understand your prediction of liberals changing their tune if gas hits $5/gallon. My take on liberals is that they are pushing for more efficient vehicles, more and better public transportation and electric vehicles.

We really do need to improve our public transportation systems. I spent January in Ecuador and found absolutely no need for a car. Buses and electric trolleys were all over the place. I could go anywhere in Quito for 25 cents. The buses were new, in great shape, and not crowded. The trolley were a bit crowded during rush hours, but still very usable.

Getting from one city to another was a piece of cake. Local buses/trolleys ran right to the bus station and buses left frequently. Very good quality buses. Buses would pick up people along the way, not just at bus stops. And they would let them off where they wanted.

Coming back to the US I needed to get from San Francisco to Placerville to pick up my car. There were only two buses per day from San Francisco to Sacramento. And only morning buses from Sacramento to Placerville.

I had to take a taxi from the Sac bus station to a hotel and spend the night. Then I took the bus to Placerville but it only stopped on the far side of town which left me a three mile walk to where I could thumb the last 15 miles. (That or a $50 to $100 taxi bill.)

That two day trip could have been done in half a day in Ecuador with only one bus change at the intermediate city bus station.

A long story, but it reminded me that we don't have a good public transportation system. We force people to drive cars when public transportation would be cheaper and save oil.
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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