Powerful Category 3 Hurricane Jova nears landfall in Mexico

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 1:42 PM GMT on October 11, 2011

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Rain bands from powerful Category 3 Hurricane Jova are already deluging the southwest coast of Mexico as the storm heads towards landfall late this afternoon between Manzanillo and Puerto Vallarta. Recent satellite loops show the hurricane has weakened since yesterday afternoon, with the eye no longer visible and the cloud pattern no longer as symmetric. Moderate wind shear of 15 - 20 knots due to strong upper-level winds out of the southeast managed to inject some dry air into the core of Jova that disrupted the storm's eyewall, and it is unlikely the hurricane will be able to intensify beyond its current 115 mph strength before landfall. It is more likely that Jova will weaken as it approaches land, due to the storm's small size, which makes is vulnerable to disruption when the outer portion of the circulation hits the mountains along the Mexican coast. If Jova maintains its Category 3 strength until landfall, it will rank as one of the ten most intense Pacific hurricanes to hit Mexico since record keeping began in 1949, according to a comprehensive list of Eastern Pacific hurricane landfalls at Wikipedia. However, I expect Jova's interaction with the high mountains of Mexico will knock it down to a Category 2 storm with 100 - 105 mph winds by landfall. Hurricane-force winds extend outwards only 15 miles from the center of Jova, so a relatively small stretch of moderately to lightly-populated stretch of coast will see Jova's high winds and dangerous storm surge. A much larger swath of Mexico will see very heavy rains of 6 - 12 inches, and these rains are the primary threat from the hurricane.

The shape of the coast near Puerto Vallarta makes it difficult for a high storm surge to affect that city. Jova is passing far enough to the east of Puerto Vallarta that the winds in the Bay should be capable of elevating a surge to a height of just 1 - 2 feet above normal water levels, with perhaps a slight chance of a surge as high as 3 feet affecting the city. However, there will be high battering waves on top of the storm surge, and these waves may cause damage to ocean front property. I was in Puerto Vallarta during Hurricane Paine of 1986, and while we didn't see much of a storm surge, the coast experienced 10-foot waves that tore apart the sea wall protecting the swimming pool of the hotel I was staying at. The highest storm tide from Jova should occur near 9:55am CDT Wednesday morning, which is the time of high tide. Jova will be at its closest to Puerto Vallarta then, and is likely to be a strong tropical storm with 60 mph winds.


Figure 1. True-color MODIS image of Jova taken at 1:40 pm EDT October 10, 2011. At the time, Jova was a Category 3 hurricane with 125 mph winds. Image credit: NASA.


Figure 2. Rainfall forecast for Hurricane Jova from this morning's 2 am EDT run of the GFDL model. Image credit: Morris Bender, NOAA/GFDL.

Links to follow Jova
Wunderblogger Mike Theiss is in Barra de Navidad, just north-west of Manzanillo, and will be giving us live blogs and photos from the landfall of Jova, as his power and Internet connections permit.

Manzanillo weather

>Puerto Vallarta webcam

Tropical Depression Irwin also headed for Mexico
Once Jova has made landfall, Tropical Depression Irwin, farther to the west, may also be a concern. The computer forecast models show that late this week, Irwin will approach the same stretch of Mexican coast Jova is affecting. However, Irwin is a weak storm that is may not survive, due to high wind shear, and may end up not bringing significant rains to Mexico.

Quiet in the Atlantic
There are currently no threat areas in the Atlantic, now that Invest 93L has moved ashore over the Southeast U.S. Invest 93L did have tropical storm force winds, and will be re-analyzed in the off-season by NHC to see if it did indeed have enough organization to qualify as an unnamed subtropical storm.

The ECMWF and NOGAPS models continue to predict that a strong tropical disturbance capable of becoming a tropical depression could form in the Western Caribbean early next week. Some of the spin and moisture for this storm could potentially come from an area of disturbed weather in the Eastern Pacific, (Invest 99E), that is currently just offshore of the Mexico/Guatemala border. Invest 99E is expected to move inland over Central America over the next few days, bringing very heavy rains capable of causing flash flooding and mudslides to Southeast Mexico, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

Jeff Masters

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117. JeffMasters (Admin)
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The shape of the coast near Puerto Vallarta makes it difficult for a high storm surge to affect that city. Jova is passing far enough to the east of Puerto Vallarta that the winds in the Bay should be capable of elevating a surge to a height of just 1 - 2 feet above normal water levels, with perhaps a slight chance of a surge as high as 3 feet affecting the city. However, there will be high battering waves on top of the storm surge, and these waves may cause damage to ocean front property. I was in Puerto Vallarta during Hurricane Paine of 1986, and while we didn't see much of a storm surge, the coast experienced 10-foot waves that tore apart the sea wall protecting the swimming pool of the hotel I was staying at. The highest storm tide from Jova should occur near 9:55am CDT Wednesday morning, which is the time of high tide. Jova will be at its closest to Puerto Vallarta then, and is likely to be a strong tropical storm with 60 mph winds.

Jeff Masters
jova EWRC is over and she is a 100mph cat 2. will she restregnthen?
Member Since: August 23, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1725
Latest visible of Jova
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Not to harp on the 90L situation from 2009, but when I see the NHC say there was no well-defined circulation it always makes me laugh.





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113. TX2FL
Quoting Gorty:
I am very pumped up for a potential snow storm that the GFS shows for the Northeast for the 19th. Maybe just maybe it will go coastal!


Seriously??? What part of the NE?
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http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_25746.html

Expert analysis of the THING that was off the central florida coast a few days ago.
Even Stu agrees it was a subtropical system and gives his reasons as to why it was.
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Quoting pottery:

Absolutely.
Oct/Nov average (for the 2 months combined) is 21 inches at my location.
We'll see how this year compares....
I have a feeling it will be low.
Actually, I think you may end up surprised. Pressures are suppose to drop later in the month..You might start getting some moisture surges again.
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Gone.....
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Was kinda po'ed at the NHC for not calling this a TS yesterday, have since backed off and looked at other data and other mets input, leading me to the conclusion I made at post no. 63. We may never know what 93L was.
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Quoting hydrus:
October can be quite rainy there.

Absolutely.
Oct/Nov average (for the 2 months combined) is 21 inches at my location.
We'll see how this year compares....
I have a feeling it will be low.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
a little warm here should be in high 50's we are high 70's with a heat index over 80 been feeling like june instead of oct the last 5 days or so

Yeah, that's a big difference to the norm.
Hope you have a Mild winter though.

I'm out, till later>>>>>>>>>>
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Quoting pottery:

LOL !!
And a Very Timely Question, given the current debate.
The tree lost many leaves over the last 2 weeks and is now covered in new ones.

For those not familiar with this, we am talking about a Calabash tree in my garden which is my Reliable Signal, for the onset of the Rainy Season here (Trinidad, 11n 61w)

Now, in 23 years, this tree has NEVER before lost it's leaves in October....

The point I keep making, is that we are all witnessing Climate Change (it matters not what's causing it), and my point today -which Teddy so eloquently raised as well- is that we will probably see weather systems and indeed weather seasons that leave us confused and unable to pigeon-hole now, and in the future.

There is no need to cast blame and find fault with any individual or organization over the fact that 93L left some doubts in peoples minds.
It was doubtful, at best. Each way.

I think we will see this more and more as we go along.
And for some people to suggest some kind of NHC/Insurance Payment Conspiracy is just downright pathetic.
October can be quite rainy there.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Jova is--fortunately--down to a low-end Cat 2:

EP, 10, 2011101118, , BEST, 0, 179N, 1055W, 85, 973, HU, 50, NEQ, 40, 40, 40, 40, 1006, 180, 10, 0, 0, E, 0, , 0, 0, JOVA, D,
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
OP GFS AND GFES ENSEMBLE GUIDANCE SHOW MID-UPPER LEVEL RIDGE
FINALLY BREAKING DOWN BY NEXT TUE OCT 18 AS A SERIES OF POLAR
PERTURBATIONS ROTATING AROUND BASE OF ERN NOAM MEAN TROF ERODE THE
RIDGE. THIS SHOULD RESULT IN AN INCREASE IN MID-UPPER LEVEL
INSTABILITY AND THUS BETTER CHANCES FOR DEEP CONVECTION FOR THE
LAST TEN DAYS OF OCT. INTERESTINGLY...A FEW GFS ENSEMBLE MEMBERS
SUGGEST TC FORMATION NEAR THE WINDWARD ISLANDS AROUND THE 19TH AND
LATEST CPC GLOBAL TROPICS BENEFITS/HAZARDS ASSESSMENT PAGE AND MJO
FORECASTS HAVE THE ENTIRE CARIBBEAN BASIN HIGHLIGHTED UNDER A
MODERATE CHANCE OF TROPICAL CYCLOGENESIS AND A HIGH CHANCE OF
ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL FOR WEEK-2. SO...AFTER A RATHER QUIET FIRST
HALF OF OCT THINGS LOOK TO TURN MORE EXCITING FOR THE END OF THE
MONTH.
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102. Gorty
I am very pumped up for a potential snow storm that the GFS shows for the Northeast for the 19th. Maybe just maybe it will go coastal!
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Quoting pottery:

It's all Good!

The Weather here, now--

Temp 93F
Humid. 56%
Dew pt. 75F
Wind 12 mph East
Pressure 1009 (falling)
Heat Index 105F

This is Steamy, man.

a little warm here should be in high 50's we are high 70's with a heat index over 80 been feeling like june instead of oct the last 5 days or so
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 174 Comments: 54434
Quoting TampaSpin:



Ya, an awfully lot of people rushing to judgement about the NHC without all the Info THEY have which is far more than any of us......JUST SAYN


I couldn't agree more with that.
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Quoting ClaySFL:
Oh wow, we have the people who're blowing up at the NHC, and we have the calm folks. I don't want to name names, but I have a lot of respect for the latter.

I salute you calm folks.



Ya, an awfully lot of people rushing to judgement about the NHC without all the Info THEY have which is far more than any of us......JUST SAYN
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Oh wow, we have the people who're blowing up at the NHC, and we have the calm folks. I don't want to name names, but I have a lot of respect for the latter.

I salute you calm folks.
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Quoting TampaSpin:



Sounds like Fall Weather is upon ya! LOL

Yeah, and I'm Falling, fast!
Whew!
Small Islands are not supposed to get this hot.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Quoting pottery:

It's all Good!

The Weather here, now--

Temp 93F
Humid. 56%
Dew pt. 75F
Wind 12 mph East
Pressure 1009 (falling)
Heat Index 105F

This is Steamy, man.




Sounds like Fall Weather is upon ya! LOL
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting TampaSpin:



Have you had your afternoon friska today yet......LOL......Hey POT don't let some of these idiots get to ya man!

It's all Good!

The Weather here, now--

Temp 93F
Humid. 56%
Dew pt. 75F
Wind 12 mph East
Pressure 1009 (falling)
Heat Index 105F

This is Steamy, man.

Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Irwin slowly strengthening again:

EP, 11, 2011101118, , BEST, 0, 149N, 1149W, 40, 1003, TS, 34, NEQ, 40, 50, 30, 30
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Quoting pottery:
I think that the other thing we need to take into account, is the fact that we are now able to get far more Data and RealTime imagery than we did before.
Some of this Data is surely new in the sense that it is also 'unknown' from the point of view of what it actually means, as we are not in a position to relate it to Historical Data. (we dont have it)

So the fact that an area may be showing some clear signs of Warm-Core (for instance) while the rest of the area does not, should be understood to mean that this may have happened many times before without us knowing.

I often experience West winds here, with pressure drops, strong squalls , high temps and heavy rains .
Should I declare these as something????

I am oversimplifying for the sake of argument...



Have you had your afternoon friska today yet......LOL......Hey POT don't let some of these idiots get to ya man!
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Quoting shred3590:


If you are sorry to sound rude, you would not have written that. Comments like this have been the downfall of this blog this year. Rather than take pot shots at posters, please explain why you believe that the NHC is wrong on this one.

Many people, myself included, are merely interested in weather, not trained professionals. The discourse on this blog will go back to the high quality it used to be if bloggers would say, "I disagree with that statement and here is why ..."

You are correct.
It would be beneficial to all concerned if people justified their opinions with some thoughts and data.
It does not happen often, but some people do.
Levi, Drakoen, Skye, Cybre, and several others do this all the time.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
I think that the other thing we need to take into account, is the fact that we are now able to get far more Data and RealTime imagery than we did before.
Some of this Data is surely new in the sense that it is also 'unknown' from the point of view of what it actually means, as we are not in a position to relate it to Historical Data. (we dont have it)

So the fact that an area may be showing some clear signs of Warm-Core (for instance) while the rest of the area does not, should be understood to mean that this may have happened many times before without us knowing.

I often experience West winds here, with pressure drops, strong squalls , high temps and heavy rains .
Should I declare these as something????

I am oversimplifying for the sake of argument...
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Quoting CybrTeddy:
93L's case is similar to what we experienced in May 2009 (image credit goes to stormchaser2007 & weather456)





All phase diagrams also indicated warmcore - pressure was 1000mb on buoys and 45 mph winds where clocked by those same buoys. Never was upgraded. Never was given an explanation as to why either from the NHC.

Still convinced to this day that 2009 should have been 10-3-2.


NHC did explain in a presentation at the 2010 Florida Govenor's Hurricane Conference


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Sounds like many on here are listening to JB's daily update theories then writes their own blog with his analysis........NICE........LOL
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Quoting portcharlotte:
I think you should stick to your pots or whatever you do. Obviously, you are not able to look at objective data or have a background as a Met of any kind. Sorry to sound rude but it really bothers me when people can't understand it...that is the data...




If you are sorry to sound rude, you would not have written that. Comments like this have been the downfall of this blog this year. Rather than take pot shots at posters, please explain why you believe that the NHC is wrong on this one.

Many people, myself included, are merely interested in weather, not trained professionals. The discourse on this blog will go back to the high quality it used to be if bloggers would say, "I disagree with that statement and here is why ..."
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Minnemike:
quoting Nea: "There is a right way and a wrong way to criticize."

you know you opened up a door there ;)
..not that i'd walk through it.

Of course. But what's wrong in some areas of criticism isn't necessarily wrong in others, and vice versa. ;-)
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quoting Nea: "There is a right way and a wrong way to criticize."

you know you opened up a door there ;)
..not that i'd walk through it.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
well said

yes climate change is in fact all ready occurring
how strong the change is yet to be seen
when one is the actual field experiment
we have to wait till the end of the excecise
to see the full extend of its
future outcome

and i think it will be like nothing we have seen before



NICE !
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Quoting pottery:

LOL !!
And a Very Timely Question, given the current debate.
The tree lost many leaves over the last 2 weeks and is now covered in new ones.

For those not familiar with this, we am talking about a Calabash tree in my garden which is my Reliable Signal, for the onset of the Rainy Season here (Trinidad, 11n 61w)

Now, in 23 years, this tree has NEVER before lost it's leaves in October....

The point I keep making, is that we are all witnessing Climate Change (it matters not what's causing it), and my point today -which Skye so eloquently raised as well- is that we will probably see weather systems and indeed weather seasons that leave us confused and unable to pigeon-hole now, and in the future.

There is no need to cast blame and find fault with any individual or organization over the fact that 93L left some doubts in peoples minds.
It was doubtful, at best. Each way.

I think we will see this more and more as we go along.
And for some people to suggest some kind of NHC/Insurance Payment Conspiracy is just downright pathetic.
well said

yes climate change is in fact all ready occurring
how strong the change is yet to be seen
when one is the actual field experiment
we have to wait till the end of the excecise
to see the full extend of its future outcome

and i think it will be like nothing we have seen before

Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 174 Comments: 54434
Quoting Neapolitan:

The way you and some others (here and elsewhere) have personally gone about questioning the NHC about 93L shows maturity, class, and professionalism. There's nothing wrong with that, and, in fact, it should be encouraged; by such means is progress made. But the problem appears to be that so many others have moved far beyond questioning the mets at the NHC and have gone straight to engaging in name calling, insulting, and making wild allegations of misconduct: "Idiots! Morons! What are they smoking in there?! Are they blind or stupid or both?! They obviously have an agenda, and are covering for someone; this calls for a Congressional investigation!!! Any imbecile can see 93L was Rina; they blew it, and now they're too embarrassed to admit their screw up!!!!!" And so on, and so forth, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. And that's ponderous. At least to some of us. So, yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But as I said last night, those who wish their opinions to be heard need to consider how those opinions are expressed.

There is a right way and a wrong way to criticize. More of the former and far less of the latter is greatly appreciated.

LEVI
I was trying to find a way to say this, with less success than Nea.
If I may, let me add that I appreciate your input here very much, and envy you your knowledge on Weather.

Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Quoting portcharlotte:
THE BUOY DATA! Unless that buoy was a ghost that data was a textbook observation of a warm core tropical store passing overhead...case closed..need to get back to work...



At the time that data was noted, there was OTHER CURRENT DATA that did not gel completely with what you are saying.
You cannot declare an entire Weather System something or other, based upon such isolated data.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Quoting Neapolitan:

True. Also: a single GPS satellite is incapable of providing a fix; Cingular no longer exists; the Palm Pilot has been out of production for nearly ten years; the RAZR line has been largely supplanted by smart phones; the--wait. What's that? This is a joke? And it's from 2000? And it was originally about business consultants? Oh. Well, then. Nevermind. ;-)


Geez man, it is just a joke like you said. It was a forward that was in my inbox this morning. I don’t think it was meant to be analyzed in every detail possible. Who cares if it is silly and outdated. It was only meant to give ya a slight smile on a mundane Tuesday morning. Move along Debbie Downer.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Developing Low just North of the Eastern Tip of Cuba. Looks to be getting some nice spin going, but its no threat to Florida.
At least its something to watch in the Atlantic Basin.
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Irwin looks to be making a comeback out there in the EPAC today.
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Quoting hydrus:
Wuzup Pott....How is ( THE TREE ),?..:)

LOL !!
And a Very Timely Question, given the current debate.
The tree lost many leaves over the last 2 weeks and is now covered in new ones.

For those not familiar with this, we am talking about a Calabash tree in my garden which is my Reliable Signal, for the onset of the Rainy Season here (Trinidad, 11n 61w)

Now, in 23 years, this tree has NEVER before lost it's leaves in October....

The point I keep making, is that we are all witnessing Climate Change (it matters not what's causing it), and my point today -which Teddy so eloquently raised as well- is that we will probably see weather systems and indeed weather seasons that leave us confused and unable to pigeon-hole now, and in the future.

There is no need to cast blame and find fault with any individual or organization over the fact that 93L left some doubts in peoples minds.
It was doubtful, at best. Each way.

I think we will see this more and more as we go along.
And for some people to suggest some kind of NHC/Insurance Payment Conspiracy is just downright pathetic.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390
Quoting Levi32:
People oppose the decisions and statements of authority when they believe the authority is incorrect. That goes for presidents or the NHC. The people of this country are free to oppose their president whom they elected. So we also are free to oppose the NHC when our meteorological sense is violated by something this large. It's easy to blow it off and say it isn't that big of a deal, but to us who care deeply about meteorology and the definitions by which we collect data, it is. The NHC deserves to be heavily questioned on this matter. Obviously very few people are willing to do so, but would rather side with power and in so doing pick the safer road to travel. Nobody would have any meaning in the world if their opinion was defined by the opinion of the group in power.

Nothing about this contains a lack of respect for the NHC, and I hold them in the highest regard possible, as I'm sure most people do. I believe they do an outstanding job. However, that doesn't mean that I'm going to suck up to them....I'm going to question them where I think something is questionable, and as our official government office for tropical weather, I expect them to follow guidelines that they themselves laid out. In recent years, there have been many examples of those guidelines not being followed in the way they were written, including this recent event. Thus, is it not only natural to ask for either a redefined set of guidelines or to at least for the forecasters interpret them consistently? Isn't it natural to question why a system was or wasn't named based on the freely-available data at hand? Is that so blasphemous?

That's my 2 cents.

The way you and some others (here and elsewhere) have personally gone about questioning the NHC about 93L shows maturity, class, and professionalism. There's nothing wrong with that, and, in fact, it should be encouraged; by such means is progress made. But the problem appears to be that so many others have moved far beyond questioning the mets at the NHC and have gone straight to engaging in name calling, insulting, and making wild allegations of misconduct: "Idiots! Morons! What are they smoking in there?! Are they blind or stupid or both?! They obviously have an agenda, and are covering for someone; this calls for a Congressional investigation!!! Any imbecile can see 93L was Rina; they blew it, and now they're too embarrassed to admit their screw up!!!!!" And so on, and so forth, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. And that's ponderous. At least to some of us. So, yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But as I said last night, those who wish their opinions to be heard need to consider how those opinions are expressed.

There is a right way and a wrong way to criticize. More of the former and far less of the latter is greatly appreciated.
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Quoting Buhdog:
I cant get my eyes off this site.... it is the rsoe edis emergency site. It has every major incident from fires to floods to earthquakes and even hazmat issues. Pretty cool as it is in real time. Stumbled up on it ... i think you all will like it.

Link


thats cool thanks for the link
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I think Levi32 put it correctly...When you are deep into the science or have worked professionally in the field it is an important debate. I work in the environmental field now and when my data says this is happening and someone blatantly is blind to the obvious it's hard to accept.



Quoting Tygor:
I don't really understand the fight to have a storm named that has already happened. Are there insurance issues that only come into effect if a storm is named? Or is this a situation where people want to refer to the event with a name for posterity sake?

From the outside it sounds like a case of "who cares" unless it's an insurance/aid thing which would really affect lives/money. Sorry in advance for my ignorance :(
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93L's case is similar to what we experienced in May 2009 (image credit goes to stormchaser2007 & weather456)





All phase diagrams also indicated warmcore - pressure was 1000mb on buoys and 45 mph winds where clocked by those same buoys. Never was upgraded. Never was given an explanation as to why either from the NHC.

Still convinced to this day that 2009 should have been 10-3-2.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
I don't really understand the fight to have a storm named that has already happened. Are there insurance issues that only come into effect if a storm is named? Or is this a situation where people want to refer to the event with a name for posterity sake?

From the outside it sounds like a case of "who cares" unless it's an insurance/aid thing which would really affect lives/money. Sorry in advance for my ignorance :(
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
THE BUOY DATA! Unless that buoy was a ghost that data was a textbook observation of a warm core tropical store passing overhead...case closed..need to get back to work...


Quoting pottery:

Nice!
And what exactly WAS the data?
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Quoting pottery:

You dont get it, do you....
Wuzup Pott....How is ( THE TREE ),?..:)
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Quoting niederwaldboy:


Point is...???????????


Point is, its entirely possible that 93L was something that we cant put into a single category, and might have been something totally different and very rare. As to what, no idea.
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Quoting CybrTeddy:
Repost from last blog.
Entirely possible that 93L wasn't anything we've ever seen in the Atlantic. It doesn't meet the requirements for a tropical or subtropical storm, but it didn't meet the requirements for a nontropical low, a landcane, or anything of the such. Wasn't a tropical wave, wasn't a nor'easter either or extratropical for that matter. Was a warm core feature, that's for sure, with a closed circulation, that's pretty much for sure to. But looking closer into it, you only had the warmcore features in a small core surrounded by an entirely non-tropical system. It was almost two systems in one, I have never seen anything like 93L in the Atlantic before.

Thanks Cybre,
This is what I was thinking, in spite of some furious comments from a couple people who believe that EVERYTHING is ALWAYS cut-and-dry.

The NHC is going to review all the Data on this system, and until they do that, and make a definitive statement on it, we wait and wonder at Nature's variation.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24390

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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