Nate almost a hurricane; Maria remains disorganized

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 9:05 PM GMT on September 08, 2011

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An Air Force Reserve hurricane hunter aircraft is in Tropical Storm Nate, and has found winds much stronger than the storm's satellite appearance would suggest. At 2:17 pm EDT, the aircraft measured winds at their flight level of 1500 feet of 93 mph, which would ordinarily support upgrading Nate to a Category 1 hurricane. Surface winds measured by the SFMR instrument were about 70 mph, suggesting that Nate is indeed very close to hurricane strength. However, latest visible satellite loops show that if Nate is a hurricane, it's only half of a hurricane. Nate's low-level center is exposed to view, due to northeasterly upper-level winds that are creating a moderate 10 knots of wind shear. This shear is keeping all of Nate's heavy thunderstorms pushed to the south side of the center, and the northern half of the storm almost cloud-free. Sustained winds at Buoy 42055, about 140 miles to the northwest of the center of Nate, were just 28 mph at 3:50 pm EDT this afternoon. Water vapor satellite loops show that there is a large area of very dry air from Texas to the north of Nate, and this dry air is keeping the northern half of the storm dry.

Nate will meander in the Bay of Campeche for several days, and the computer models are sharply divided on what happens early next week to the storm. A ridge of high pressure is expected to build in to the north of the storm, potentially forcing it westwards to a landfall in Mexico. However, our two best-performing models last year, the GFS and ECMWF, predict that a weak trough of low pressure expected to move across the U.S. early next week will be strong enough to turn Nate northwards towards an eventual landfall along the northern Gulf Coast. We will have to wait until the NOAA jet makes its first mission to sample the steering currents in the Gulf of Mexico to get a better idea on how probable this northern path might be; their first flight will be tonight, and the data will make it into the 8 pm models runs that will be available first thing Friday morning. As far as intensity goes, the very dry air to Nate's north should begin being less of a problem for it by Friday, when the upper level winds shift more to blow from the southeast, and the shear drops to the low range, 5 - 10 knots. Since the storm is moving very slowly, it will upwell cooler waters from the depths that will slow intensification, though.


Figure 1. Afternoon satellite image of Nate.

Tropical Storm Maria
Tropical Storm Maria barely survived as a tropical storm today, but is now making a bit of a comeback. Satellite loops show that Maria has been badly ripped up by the 10 - 20 knots of wind shear affecting it. The low-level center has been exposed to view most of the day, and surface arc-shaped clouds have been racing away from the storm to the west this afternoon, indicating that dry air has been getting into Maria's thunderstorms and disrupting the storm. However, the areal coverage and intensity of Maria's thunderstorms have increased a little in the past two hours. Maria is passing close to buoy 41040, which measured sustained winds of 36 mph, gusting to 45 mph, at 2:50 pm EDT.

Wind shear is predicted to fall to the low range on Friday as Maria approaches the Lesser Antilles. In addition, as I noted in this morning's post, Maria will be encountering an atmospheric disturbance known as a Convectively-Coupled Kelvin Wave (CCKW) that is currently passing through the Lesser Antilles Islands. There is a great deal of upward-moving air in the vicinity of a CCKW, and will help strengthen the updrafts in Maria's thunderstorms, potentially intensifying the storm. None of our models are detailed enough to "see" CCKWs", so we may see more intensification of the storm than the models are calling for. I believe Maria will continue to organize and arrive in the Lesser Antilles Islands as a tropical storm with 50 - 60 mph winds. The latest run of the GFDL model predicts that Maria will be a Category 1 hurricane on Saturday afternoon when it moves through the Virgin Islands, and a Category 2 hurricane Sunday night when it moves through the Turks and Caicos Islands. This is on the high end of what is possible, and I think it more likely that Maria will be a tropical storm with 50 - 60 mph winds in the northern Lesser Antilles, 60 - 70 mph winds in the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico, and a Category 1 hurricane in the Turks and Caicos Islands--assuming passage over Puerto Rico and the eastern tip of the Dominican Republic does not significantly disrupt the storm. A lower intensity, as forecast by NHC, is certainly quite possible, as Maria may continue to struggle with the dry air and wind shear besetting it.

The latest computer model runs have been trending more southwards, and the Northern Lesser Antilles, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, the Turks and Caicos Islands, and the Bahama Islands are all at high risk of a direct hit by Maria. The models are split on how strong the steering influence a trough of low pressure along the U.S. East Coast will have once Maria approaches the U.S. East Coast. Most of the models foresee that Maria will turn north before arriving at Florida, and potentially threaten North Carolina, Bermuda, or Canada. The latest run of the GFDL model, though, brings Maria through the Bahamas to a point just 100 miles southeast of Miami as a hurricane on Tuesday afternoon. While this forecast is an outlier, and it is more likely that Maria will turn north before reaching Florida, it will be another two days before we will have a fair degree of confidence on when Maria will curve to the north.

Lee's rains trigger historic flooding in New York and Pennsylvania
An extreme rainfall event unprecedented in recorded history has hit the Binghamton, New York area, where 7.49" of rain fell yesterday. This is the second year in a row Binghamton has recorded a greater than 1-in-100 year rain event; their previous all-time record was set last September, when 4.68" fell on Sep 30 - Oct. 1, 2010. Binghamton has also already broken its record for rainiest year in its history. Records go back to 1890 in the city. The rain has ended in Binghamton, with this morning's rain bringing the city's total rainfall for the 40-hour event to 9.02". The Susquehanna River at Binghamton has risen to 25.69', its highest level since records began in 1847, and is now spilling over the flood walls protecting the city, according to media reports. In Hershey, Pennsylvania, Swatara Creek is 19' over flood stage, and more than 9' above its record flood crest. Widespread flash flooding is occurring across the entire area, and over 120,000 people have been evacuated from their homes.


Figure 2. Seven-day precipitation amounts from Tropical Storm Lee and its remnants. Image credit: NOAA/AHPS.


Figure 3. The Susquehanna River at Binghamton has crested this afternoon at its highest flood height on record, 25.69'. Records at this gauge go back to 1847. Image credit: NOAA/AHPS.


Figure 4. In Hershey, Pennsylvania, Swatara Creek is 19' over flood stage, and more than 9' above its previous record flood crest. The river is forecast to crest at 27.2' (green lines are the predictions.) Records at this gage go back to 1930. Image credit: NOAA/AHPS.

The extreme rains are due the the remains of Tropical Storm Lee interacting with a stationary front draped along the Eastern U.S. Adding to the potent moisture mix last night was a stream of tropical moisture associated with Hurricane Katia that collided with the stationary front. You don't often see a major city break its all-time 24-hour precipitation record by a 60% margin, according to wunderground's weather historian, Christopher C. Burt, and he can't recall ever seeing it happen before. It's worth noting that the Susquehanna River Binghamton stream gage, which has been in operation since 1847, is due to be shut off in 3 weeks due to budget cuts. Here's the note at the USGS web site:

NOTICE (03/23/2011)--Data collection at this streamgage may be discontinued after October 1, 2011 due to funding reductions from partner agencies. Although historic data will remain accessible, no new data will be collected unless one or more new funding partners are found. Users who are willing to contribute funding to continue operation of this streamgage should contact Rob Breault or Ward Freeman of the USGS New York Water Science Center at 518-285-5658 or dc_ny@usgs.gov.

I'll have an update in the morning.

Jeff Masters

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1477. JLPR2
Quoting Grothar:
Sweet dreams everybody.



Night! may you sleep with Maria and TWs.
What a nightmare! XD
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We gotta another system forming behind MARIA!
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Quoting Jedkins01:


yeah see that is strange, we have had countless rain events bigger than 1.3, in fact I had 1.62 on Monday, and 2.89 on Tuesday, as a more recent example. St. Petersburg had nearly 6 in on Tuesday.

Well, I'm not sure how rainfall was last year in your area, but rainfall last year around here and the situation reminds me of how it was last year here. Always high moisture and instability but the rain always fell short of forecast or what it should have been. It seemed almost unreal how little rain there could be sometimes, for example, we would have PWAT at like 2.3 with cool mid level temps, but convection still wouldn't build to more than some scattered activity.

This year, we pretty much always get more rain than forecast. We had days days where widespread 2 to 4 has fallen with isolated higher totals but they had only a 60% or 70% chance in the forecast. Forecasters never forecast above 70% here for some reason.

I makes me wonder i MET's here use there forecast numbers as based on "% chance of heavy rain of 1 inch or more" rather than chance of precip. Because % chance of precip means probability of getting 0.01 inches or greater. But many days they know almost everyone well get at least 1 to 2 inches more, lol
how much rain did you pick up, Jed? Since the stalled out boundary and Lee's remains have been draped across the area.
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1474. JLPR2
Quoting cchsweatherman:


Just shows how poorly organized the system is and would suggest more that this no longer has a defined closed surface circulation and may be a vigorous tropical wave.


I wish we had HHs in there or a buoy further south, it seems like a TW, but we don't have any definitive data to support that theory. :\
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1473. Grothar
Sweet dreams everybody.

Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26895
1472. Grothar
Quoting ProgressivePulse:



The "Small Details" Gro, no pun intended :-b

Irene wanted to go N.

Maria wants to go W.

May have a bit of a growth next image...


Leave it to you to catch that! Wondered where you have been. Glad to see you are back.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26895
Quoting PrivateIdaho:


That's un-American!
Lol. Seriously, don't try it. Really horrible.
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Quoting Cantu5977:


I think you need a compass..;) It looks like its tracking due west to me.


I stand corrected. For some reason my browser showed me the cached version of yesterday's 00Z run. Sorry about that.
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Quoting Progster:
00Z (most recent) CMC still tracks Nate (or "mate" as some person, likely an Auzzi called it) due North. Link
lol, that was me on my Android, excuse my typo.
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Quoting JLPR2:
Maria's LLC is between and to the south of the buoys at 56.2W and 53W.

35mph ENE winds in one and 30mph ESE in the other.

ADT seems right.


Just shows how poorly organized the system is and would suggest more that this no longer has a defined closed surface circulation and may be a vigorous tropical wave.
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Quoting caneswatch:


They do that at a place called Bar Louie down here.

and at the Pub at international plaza as well. its still gross lol
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Quoting ecflweatherfan:


Definitely well within my grasp of understanding. However, we have had near full sun through the periods of peak heating, and we have had PWATs in excess of 2-2.2", and the ECSB kicking in many afternoons, and temps in the L-M90s many afternoons (well above the convective temperatures) and still a bust as far as precip. Even the rare easterly flow, with cloud lines coming from the convergent winds off the Bahama Islands that we have had at night, with the high PWATs and all, still have managed meager precip. Though, the only caveat to this wet season was yesterday... I think it was close to, if not the biggest rain event I have had here and that was only 1.3"... a lot of 0.25-0.75" amounts this season to keep the grass green, but not like the normal deluges we know and love here in FL.


yeah see that is strange, we have had countless rain events bigger than 1.3, in fact I had 1.62 on Monday, and 2.89 on Tuesday, as a more recent example. St. Petersburg had nearly 6 in on Tuesday.

Well, I'm not sure how rainfall was last year in your area, but rainfall last year around here and the situation reminds me of how it was last year here. Always high moisture and instability but the rain always fell short of forecast or what it should have been. It seemed almost unreal how little rain there could be sometimes, for example, we would have PWAT at like 2.3 with cool mid level temps, but convection still wouldn't build to more than some scattered activity.

This year, we pretty much always get more rain than forecast. We had days days where widespread 2 to 4 has fallen with isolated higher totals but they had only a 60% or 70% chance in the forecast. Forecasters never forecast above 70% here for some reason.

I makes me wonder i MET's here use there forecast numbers as based on "% chance of heavy rain of 1 inch or more" rather than chance of precip. Because % chance of precip means probability of getting 0.01 inches or greater. But many days they know almost everyone well get at least 1 to 2 inches more, lol
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Quoting Grothar:


No, but I must admit you weren't far from my mind at the time. I would have used an example, but being the gentleman that I am, I refrained.


You must be having a relapse

You're hallucinating!
Member Since: August 29, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 5236
Quoting Grothar:
Ineresting image.




The "Small Details" Gro, no pun intended :-b

Irene wanted to go N.

Maria wants to go W.

May have a bit of a growth next image...
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1463. Grothar
Quoting Skyepony:


The ground is still perfect to gather & radiate heat. It's still dry & lacking in vegetation. The excessive heat begs to feed a high.

You can also see the ridge broke after an atmospheric lag from when ENSO went neutral breifly this summer. It went La Nina again. La Nina = no rain for TX.



ESPI was right on about this recent plunge. ESPI since went back neg. Don't expect this to be a real strong La Nina, nothing less than -1 for any length of time. Maybe in the spring it will go neutral again.


Skye, have you been following the flooding in the Northeast? It is really being under-reported. It is enfolding to be one of the most catastropic flooding they have ever had. If you could find info on it, it could be of interest. The situation is getting worse by the hour. They expect thousand of homes and businesses to be destroyed.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26895
Quoting Progster:


Quebeccer's put mayo on fries too, like all the abominable French. Vive le ketchup libre!


That's un-American!
Member Since: August 29, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 5236
Quoting Progster:
00Z (most recent) CMC still tracks Nate (or "mate" as some person, likely an Auzzi called it) due North. Link


I think you need a compass..;) It looks like its tracking due west to me.
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Quoting Skyepony:


The ground is still perfect to gather & radiate heat. It's still dry & lacking in vegetation. The excessive heat begs to feed a high.

You can also see the ridge broke after an atmospheric lag from when ENSO went neutral breifly this summer. It went La Nina again. La Nina = no rain for TX.



ESPI was right on about this recent plunge. ESPI since went back neg. Don't expect this to be a real strong La Nina, nothing less than -1 for any length of time. Maybe in the spring it will go neutral again.


What we wouldn't do for a good ol' fashioned el nino around these parts.
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Quoting redwagon:

Is Nate's track still in play? Not hard left Mexico?



Apparently not, although the bulk of the models still veer hard west. Its in light steering and models therefore are more prone to track error.
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1458. JLPR2
Maria's LLC is between and to the south of the buoys at 56.2W and 53W.

35mph ENE winds in one and 30mph ESE in the other.

ADT seems right.
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1457. Grothar
Quoting PrivateIdaho:


Why were you looking at ME when you said that???


No, but I must admit you weren't far from my mind at the time. I would have used an example, but being the gentleman that I am, I refrained.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26895
1456. Skyepony (Mod)
Quoting quicksilverskys:

This may sound silly But, Why is the high over TX stuck There? I thought it showed it moved off for awhile But then I guess It came back? IS this just nature or A particular reason for it? I've watched here a long time but dont understand the maps much. I string beads for a living... More "OOOh that map is pretty..." But you guys explain things very well. Oh neat, Why The High, good song title or poem, Duuu...


The ground is still perfect to gather & radiate heat. It's still dry & lacking in vegetation. The excessive heat begs to feed a high.

You can also see the ridge broke after an atmospheric lag from when ENSO went neutral breifly this summer. It went La Nina again. La Nina = no rain for TX.



ESPI was right on about this recent plunge. ESPI since went back neg. Don't expect this to be a real strong La Nina, nothing less than -1 for any length of time. Maybe in the spring it will go neutral again.
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Nate looks ill. Storms don't like to sit in place.
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Quoting Bielle:


Canadians put vinegar on chips (french fries); the Dutch put mayonnaise; in Belize, I was given lime juice; and in the USA, kechup, only kechup (hate the stuff!).


Quebeccer's put mayo on fries too, like all the abominable French. Vive le ketchup libre!
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Quoting Progster:
00Z (most recent) CMC still tracks Nate (or "mate" as some person, likely an Auzzi called it) due North. Link

Is Nate's track still in play? Not hard left Mexico?
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Quoting quicksilverskys:

This may sound silly But, Why is the high over TX stuck There? I thought it showed it moved off for awhile But then I guess It came back? IS this just nature or A particular reason for it? I've watched here a long time but dont understand the maps much. I string beads for a living... More "OOOh that map is pretty..." But you guys explain things very well. Oh neat, Why The High, good song title or poem, Duuu...


As far as I know, it's air coming off of the mountain range down south across the border. It's up pretty high and it's also pretty warm, so it rides along up in the troposphere minding its own business. Meanwhile the great vast hot plate of Texas warms air at the surface that tries to rise. But it can't, because there's this big stable mass on top. This is why Steve McCauley up at WFAA is always talking about 'The Cap.' It prevents convection from working up to a high enough altitude where it's cool enough for water to condense into rain drops.

The air that rises has to go some place, so thanks to the coriolis effect it spirals down out towards the edge in a clockwise fashion.

In other words, if you took a few thousand feet off of those mountains, the ridge might not show up as often.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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1451. JLPR2
Maria has me confused. O.o Would really like a plane in there to know just what is Maria.

And this just adds to my confusion.
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Quoting ecflweatherfan:


Definitely well within my grasp of understanding. However, we have had near full sun through the periods of peak heating, and we have had PWATs in excess of 2-2.2", and the ECSB kicking in many afternoons, and temps in the L-M90s many afternoons (well above the convective temperatures) and still a bust as far as precip. Even the rare easterly flow, with cloud lines coming from the convergent winds off the Bahama Islands that we have had at night, with the high PWATs and all, still have managed meager precip. Though, the only caveat to this wet season was yesterday... I think it was close to, if not the biggest rain event I have had here and that was only 1.3"... a lot of 0.25-0.75" amounts this season to keep the grass green, but not like the normal deluges we know and love here in FL.


yeah see that is strange, we have had countless rain events bigger than 1.3, in fact I had 1.62 on Monday, and 2.89 on Tuesday, as a more recent example. St. Petersburg had nearly 6 in on Tuesday.

Well, I'm not sure how rainfall was last year in your area, but rainfall last year around here and the situation reminds me of how it was last year here. Always high moisture and instability but the rain always fell short of forecast or what it should have been. It seemed almost unreal how little rain there could be sometimes, for example, we would have PWAT at like 2.3 with cool mid level temps, but convection still wouldn't build to more than some scattered activity.

This year, we pretty much always get more rain than forecast. We had days days where widespread 2 to 4 has fallen with isolated higher totals but they had only a 60% or 70% chance in the forecast. Forecasters never forecast above 70% here for some reason.

I makes me wonder i MET's here use there forecast numbers as based on "% chance of heavy rain of 1 inch or more" rather than chance of precip. Because % chance of precip means probability of getting 0.01 inches or greater. But many days they know almost everyone well get at least 1 to 2 inches more, lol
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1449. Bielle
Quoting Grothar:


I heard that it is an old custom to kill any fungus that was on the old potatoes. I do know if there is any validity to it, but we also dipped raw claims and cooked claims in vinegar instead of lemon.


Canadians put vinegar on chips (french fries); the Dutch put mayonnaise; in Belize, I was given lime juice; and in the USA, kechup, only kechup (hate the stuff!).
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Quoting defdogz:


Malt vinegar on hot, salty fries. Yum.

It's a British thing.

MMM I'm Native American & Love Vinegar on fries, fish, even potato chips. Dont put it on fry bread though. Yuk!
All Sillyness aside, Thank all of you for the great info this evening. Although I'm really disheartened over TX & OK drought at least I can sort of see why things are happeneing. Something has got to give. Cant hardly watch AG report In the AM. Its just dismal!
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00Z (most recent) CMC still tracks Nate (or "mate" as some person, likely an Auzzi called it) due North. Link
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Just in looking at satellite imagery tonight and buoy data in the region, I believe that Tropical Storm Maria may have degenerated into a tropical wave as a closed circulation is no longer evident. This is one of poorest organized tropical storms I have ever seen in my years tracking storms.
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Quoting Grothar:


I hardly see you on here anymore. Don't lurk,post something. If you say something stupid, you will just be like the rest of us.


Why were you looking at ME when you said that???
Member Since: August 29, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 5236
1444. Grothar
Quoting PrivateIdaho:


They put malt vinegar on the "chips" and fish in Britain....it's one of the few edible dishes they serve.


I heard that it is an old custom to kill any fungus that was on the old potatoes. I do know if there is any validity to it, but we also dipped raw claims and cooked claims in vinegar instead of lemon.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26895
Quoting JNCali:

Just north of you a bit...Just think how it'll be when an 8.0 rolls through here.. could happen anytime.. so get prepared tomorrow yes?


I'm a geology student - and I always though that "the big one" would happen and I was always nervous until I took classes. Apparently, In san Diego, we will not be expecting anything over a 6.5 or 7. It may feel huge but it won't be anything what "older rock" is going to do.

Not that that is going to keep me from figuring out my emergency kit - b/c even that big of a quake will knock out power possibly and make my food source limted.

We had no power - means you can't go to the store, you can't get ice, you can't ger money. No where in So Cal from San Clemente to Tijuana.

Kid was at work and asked if were going to stay at a hotel (it was HOT). Had to laugh at my princess. There was no power almost to La
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1442. Grothar
Quoting jazzie:
Dr. Grother welcome back. I was very worried about you. I always lurk here but treasure your humor and knowledge.


I hardly see you on here anymore. Don't lurk,post something. If you say something stupid, you will just be like the rest of us.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26895
Quoting Orcasystems:


At present .. there is not one single Model (early or late) that even hints at any track, before or after landfall into Texas.

the keyword there is "present"

there is more support for it to hit NOLA (AP16 & LBAR) then there is for texas.

This may sound silly But, Why is the high over TX stuck There? I thought it showed it moved off for awhile But then I guess It came back? IS this just nature or A particular reason for it? I've watched here a long time but dont understand the maps much. I string beads for a living... More "OOOh that map is pretty..." But you guys explain things very well. Oh neat, Why The High, good song title or poem, Duuu...
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Quoting defdogz:


Malt vinegar on hot, salty fries. Yum.

It's a British thing.

Jinx!!
Member Since: August 29, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 5236
1439. JNCali
Quoting defdogz:


Malt vinegar on hot, salty fries. Yum.

It's a British thing.

I'm not supposed to eat anything right before going to bed... you guys are NOT HELPING!!
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1438. defdogz
Quoting Grothar:


Hey, PI, just a bit of trivia. On Long Island and New England they often put vinegar on their french fries instead of ketchup.


Malt vinegar on hot, salty fries. Yum.

It's a British thing.
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Quoting Grothar:


Hey, PI, just a bit of trivia. On Long Island and New England they often put vinegar on their french fries instead of ketchup.


They put malt vinegar on the "chips" and fish in Britain....it's one of the few edible dishes they serve.
Member Since: August 29, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 5236
1436. JNCali
Quoting melwerle:
Just a peep from So Cal now that our power is back on. Apparently we were "severed" from our source since 3 this afternoon.

I've learned that I'm totally unprepared for an emergency. Zero prep. you don't think it's going to happen to YOU so you go around living life.

Dumb move.

Just north of you a bit...Just think how it'll be when an 8.0 rolls through here.. could happen anytime.. so get prepared tomorrow yes?
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Quoting Grothar:
Ineresting image.

Indeed. And to consider Fl is smack dab in the middle of the region of highest subsidence from BOTH storms...
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Quoting Grothar:


Hey, PI, just a bit of trivia. On Long Island and New England they often put vinegar on their french fries instead of ketchup.


They do that at a place called Bar Louie down here.
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1432. jazzie
Dr. Grother welcome back. I was very worried about you. I always lurk here but treasure your humor and knowledge.
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Quoting GTcooliebai:
Your avatar is making me hungry, can I have some of your fries?


No way Dude!!

My so called "smart phone" is always garbling my messages too.
Member Since: August 29, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 5236
Just a peep from So Cal now that our power is back on. Apparently we were "severed" from our source since 3 this afternoon.

I've learned that I'm totally unprepared for an emergency. Zero prep. you don't think it's going to happen to YOU so you go around living life.

Dumb move.
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1429. Grothar
Ineresting image.

Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26895
I noticed Mate has a very small moisture field, probably due in part to the dry air to its north. At this point in the season it will probably take an onslaught of longwave troughs coming down from Alaska and the Pacific Northwest to break down that ridge over Texas, displacing it to the east coast and west coast. This would be a dangerous pattern for the US as well, especially if it happens before the end of Hurricane Season.
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1427. Grothar
Quoting PrivateIdaho:


I don't have an issue with a running play but a dive with the left tackle pulling on the one? To much beef in front of Ingram with that call.


Hey, PI, just a bit of trivia. On Long Island and New England they often put vinegar on their french fries instead of ketchup.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26895

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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