America's Achilles' heel: the Mississippi River's Old River Control Structure

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 5:20 PM GMT on May 13, 2011

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America has an Achilles' heel. It lies on a quiet, unpopulated stretch of the Mississippi River in Louisiana, a few miles east of the tiny town of Simmesport. Rising up from the flat, wooded west flood plain of the Mississippi River tower four massive concrete and steel structures that would make a Pharaoh envious--the Army Corps' of Engineers greatest work, the billion-dollar Old River Control Structure. This marvel of modern civil engineering has, for fifty years, done what many thought impossible--impose man's will on the Mississippi River. Mark Twain, who captained a Mississippi river boat for many years, wrote in his book Life on the Mississippi, "ten thousand river commissions, with the mines of the world at their back, cannot tame that lawless stream, cannot curb it or define it, cannot say to it "Go here," or Go there, and make it obey; cannot save a shore which it has sentenced; cannot bar its path with an obstruction which it will not tear down, dance over, and laugh at." The great river wants to carve a new path to the Gulf of Mexico; only the Old River Control Structure keeps it at bay. Failure of the Old River Control Structure would be a severe blow to America's economy, interrupting a huge portion of our imports and exports that ship along the Mississippi River. Closure of the Mississippi to shipping would cost $295 million per day, said Gary LaGrange, executive director of the Port of New Orleans, during a news conference Thursday. The structure will receive its most severe test in its history in the coming two weeks, as the Mississippi River's greatest flood on record crests at a level never before seen.


Figure 1. Two views of the Mississippi River. Left: the meander paths of the Mississippi over time, as published in "Geological Investigation of the Alluvial Valley of the Lower Mississippi River" (Fisk, 1944). Right: The Army Corps of Engineers' view of Mississippi River peak flow rates during a maximum 1-in-500 year "Project Flood" (U.S. Army Corp of Engineers, 1958.) The places outlined in red are where the Corps has built flood control structures capable of diverting a portion of the Mississippi's flow.

A better path to the Gulf
The mighty Mississippi River keeps on rollin' along its final 300 miles to the Gulf of Mexico south of New Orleans--but unwillingly. There is a better way to the Gulf--150 miles shorter, and more than twice as steep. This path lies down the Atchafalaya River, which connects to the Mississippi at a point 45 miles north-northwest of Baton Rouge, 300 river miles from the Gulf of Mexico Delta. Each year, the path down the Atchafalaya grows more inviting. As the massive amounts of sediments the Mississippi carries--scoured from fully 41% of the U.S. land area--reach the Gulf of Mexico, the river's path grows longer. This forces it to dump large amounts of sediment hundreds of miles upstream, in order to build its bed higher and maintain the flow rates needed to flush such huge amounts of sediment to the sea. Thus the difference in elevation between the bed of the Mississippi and the Atchafalaya--currently 17 - 19 feet at typical flow rates of the rivers--grows ever steeper, and the path to the Gulf down the Atchafalaya more inviting. Floods like this year's great flood further increase the slope, as flood waters scour out the bed of the Atchafalaya. Without the Old River Control Structure, the Mississippi River would have carved a new path to the Gulf in the 1970s, leaving Baton Rouge and New Orleans stranded on a salt water estuary, with no fresh water to supply their people and industry.

History of the Old River Control Structure
The Mississippi River has been carving a path to the ocean since the time of the dinosaurs, always seeking the shortest and steepest route possible. Approximately once every 1000 years, the river jumps out of its banks and carves a new path. In John McPhee's fantastic essay, The Control of Nature, we learn:

The Mississippi's main channel of three thousand years ago is now the quiet water of Bayou Teche, which mimics the shape of the Mississippi. Along Bayou Teche, on the high ground of ancient natural levees, are Jeanerette, Breaux Bridge, Broussard, Olivier--arcuate strings of Cajun towns. Eight hundred years before the birth of Christ, the channel was captured from the east. It shifted abruptly and flowed in that direction for about a thousand years. In the second century a.d., it was captured again, and taken south, by the now unprepossessing Bayou Lafourche, which, by the year 1000, was losing its hegemony to the river's present course, through the region that would be known as Plaquemines. By the nineteen-fifties, the Mississippi River had advanced so far past New Orleans and out into the Gulf that it was about to shift again, and its offspring Atchafalaya was ready to receive it.

For the Mississippi to make such a change was completely natural, but in the interval since the last shift Europeans had settled beside the river, a nation had developed, and the nation could not afford nature. The consequences of the Atchafalaya's conquest of the Mississippi would include but not be limited to the demise of Baton Rouge and the virtual destruction of New Orleans. With its fresh water gone, its harbor a silt bar, its economy disconnected from inland commerce, New Orleans would turn into New Gomorrah. Moreover, there were so many big industries between the two cities that at night they made the river glow like a worm. As a result of settlement patterns, this reach of the Mississippi had long been known as "the German coast," and now, with B. F. Goodrich, E. I. du Pont, Union Carbide, Reynolds Metals, Shell, Mobil, Texaco, Exxon, Monsanto, Uniroyal, Georgia-Pacific, Hydrocarbon Industries, Vulcan Materials, Nalco Chemical, Freeport Chemical, Dow Chemical, Allied Chemical, Stauffer Chemical, Hooker Chemicals, Rubicon Chemicals, American Petrofina--with an infrastructural concentration equaled in few other places--it was often called "the American Ruhr." The industries were there because of the river. They had come for its navigational convenience and its fresh water. They would not, and could not, linger beside a tidal creek. For nature to take its course was simply unthinkable. The Sixth World War would do less damage to southern Louisiana. Nature, in this place, had become an enemy of the state.


The Atchafalaya steadily took more and more of the Mississippi's water to the Gulf of Mexico during the 20th Century, until by 1950, it had captured 30% of the great river's flow, becoming the 4th largest river in the U.S. by volume discharge. The Army Corps of Engineers stepped in, and in the late 1950s began construction of a massive structure that resembled a dam with gates to control the amount of water escaping from the Mississippi to the Atchafalaya. This "Low Sill Structure", completed in 1963, consisted of a dam with 11 gates, each 44 feet wide, that could be raised or lowered. The entire structure was 566 feet long. A companion "Overbank Structure" was built on dry land next to the Low Sill Structure, in order to control extreme water flows during major floods. The Overbank Structure had 73 bays, each 44 feet wide, and was 3,356 feet long. The total cost of the two structures: about $300 million.


Figure 2. Aerial view of the Mississippi River's Old River Control Structure, looking downstream (south.) Image credit: U.S. Army Corp of Engineers.

The flood of 1973: Old River Control Structure almost fails
For the first ten years after completion of the Old River Control Structure, no major floods tested it, leading the Army Corps to declare, "We harnessed it, straightened it, regularized it, shackled it." But in 1973, a series of heavy snowstorms in the Upper Midwest was followed by exceptionally heavy spring rains in the South. The Mighty Mississippi rose inexorably until the flow rate at the Old River Control Structure reached 2 million cubic feet per second--twenty times the flow of Niagara Falls--and stayed there for more almost three months. Turbulence from the unprecedented flows through the Low Sill Structure scoured the foundation and destroyed a 67-foot-high wing wall that guided water into the structure. Scour holes as big as a football field developed upstream, downstream, and underneath the structure, exposing 50 feet of the 90-foot long steel pilings supporting the structure. The structure began vibrating dangerously, so much so that it would slam open car doors of vehicles parking on top of Highway 15 that crosses over the top. Emergency repairs saved the structure, but it came every close to complete failure.

The flood of 1973 permanently damaged the Low Sill Structure, forcing the Corps to build additional structures to control future great floods. The first of these structures was the Auxilliary Control Structure. This 442-foot long structure, completed in 1986, consisted of six gates, each 62 feet wide, and cost $206 million to build. Joining the mix in the late 1980s was a 192-megawatt hydroelectric power plant, build at a cost of $520 million.


Figure 3. The flow of water in the Mississippi River as of Friday, May 13 (red line) has exceeded 2 million cubic feet per second, and was approaching the all-time record (dashed blue line.) Image credit: USACE.

The Old River Control Structure's greatest test: the flood of 2011
Flow rates of the Mississippi at the latitude of the Old River Control Structure are expected to exceed the all-time record on Saturday, giving the Old River Control Structure its greatest test since the flood of 1973. Since there are now four structures to control the flooding instead of just the two that existed in 1973, the Old River Control Structure should be able to handle a much greater flow of water. The flood of 2011 is not as large as the maximum 1-in-500 year "Project Flood" that the Old River Control Structure was designed to handle, and the Army Corps of Engineers has expressed confidence that the structure can handle the current flood. However, the system has never been tested in these conditions before. This is a dangerous flood, and very high water levels are expected for many weeks. Unexpected flaws in the design of the Old River Control Structure may give it a few percent chance of failure under these sorts of unprecedented conditions. While I expect that the Old River Control Structure will indeed hold back the great flood of 2011, we also need to be concerned about the levees on either side of the structure. The levees near Old River Control Structure range from 71 - 74 feet high, and the flood is expected to crest at 65.5 feet on May 22. This is, in theory, plenty of levee to handle such a flood, but levees subjected to long periods of pressure can and do fail sometimes, and the Corps has to be super-careful to keep all the levees under constant surveillance and quickly move to repair sand boils or piping problems that might develop. Any failure of a levee on the west bank of the Mississippi could allow the river to jump its banks permanently and carve a new path to the Gulf of Mexico. I'll say more about the potential costs of such an event in a future post.

According to the latest information from the Army Corps the Old River Control Structure is currently passing 624,000 cubic feet per second of water, which is 1% beyond what is intended in a maximum "Project Flood." The flow rate of the Mississippi at New Orleans is at 100% of the maximum Project Flood. These are dangerous flow rates, and makes it likely that the Army Corps will open the Morganza Spillway in the next few days to take pressure off of the Old River Control Structure and New Orleans levees. Neither can be allowed to fail. In theory, the Old River Control Structure can be operated at 140% of a Project Flood, since there are now four control structures instead of just the two that existed in 1973 (flows rates of 300,000 cfs, 350,000 cfs, 320,000 cfs, and 170,000 cfs can go through the Low Sill, Auxiliary, Overbank, and Hydroelectric structures, respectively.) Apparently, the Corps is considering this, as evidenced by their Scenario #3 images they posted yesterday. This is a risky proposition, as the Old River Control Structure would be pushed to its absolute limit in this scenario. It would seem a lower risk proposition to open the Morganza spillway to divert up to 600,000 cfs, unless there are concerns the Corps has they aren't telling us about.


Figure 4. Kayaking, anyone? The stilling basin downstream of the Low Sill Structure of the Old River Control Structure, as seen during major flood stage of the Mississippi River on May 10, 2011. The flow rate is 2 - 3 times that of Niagara Falls here. Video by Lee Alessi.

Recommended reading
John McPhee's fantastic essay, The Control of Nature

Jeff Masters

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Morganza on ustream will go live at 2:30 Link

Sorry, did not realize shoreacres already posted link
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Thanks Shoreacres. Cool name btw!! I used to work at a plant farm with same name.
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See video and sound by a person in his house near San Juan as hail was falling.

Link
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14243
Any one know anything about this

NewRoads 25 barges got loose, 2 hit the old bridge, old brindge is closed in BR until they check it out!
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354. beell
Quoting NOLA2005:


I couldn't say for sure, but I don't think there are many, if any, structures in the upper part of the floodway. I think the main concern is for communities farther down, along the I-10 corridor and below.

I haven't heard anyone discuss any scenarios as far as structures being pushed off foundations or destroyed from rushing water, just massive flooding lasting for a number of weeks. Of course that doesn't mean it can't happen.....


Opening the Morganza is not the same as a levee breach with a raging torrent to the rooftops in a couple of hours.

Just a slow, unstoppable rise that will take many days to reach its peak. And many more days to recede. There are no plans to stop the flow. Nothing to fix. This is the plan. All you can do is get out of the way. The flood is no longer restricted to growing vertically as it is within the narrow confines of the mainline Mississippi River levees. It grows horizontally-spreads out.

The Morganza is 4-5 miles wide at its upper end. Confined by the East Atchafalaya Basin Levee on the east and the West Atchafalaya River Levee to its west. Farther S, the basin is close to 20 miles wide in spots. The water spreads out much more than up.

The map that Patrap posted @ 332 presents one of the clearest pictures of the levees that I have seen. They are marked in blue.

Here it is again. click graphic for full size.



Starting from the west the North/South levees are:

The West Atchafalaya Basin Levee (WABL)
The West Atchafalaya River Levee (WARL)
The East Atchafalaya River Levee (EARL)
The East Atchafalaya Basin Levee (EABL)

At 50% utilization of Morganza this map also clearly shows the path and timeline of the water through the basin. Note the backwater flooding as the flow reaches the end of the WARL and turns north. The timeline depicts the onset of the rise, not the crest.

The community of Butte La Rose, south of I-10 is at the end of the WARL. They catch the water from both sides. On the river side of the levee and backwater slipping around behind the levee. Largest impact to people and their possessions inside the basin should occur here.

As the flow proceeds down the basin and reaches Morgan City more backwater flooding begins here as the water is no longer within levees and begins to head back north outside the EABL and to a lesser extent, the WABL. The backwater here because the flow cannot exit to the gulf fast enough via the Lower Atchafalaya River (below Morgan City) and starts creeping east and north. Outside the basin.
Member Since: September 11, 2007 Posts: 142 Comments: 16590
Lots of nasty weather rolling in. Several brush fires being sparked from the lighting last night and today
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Quoting msgambler:
Pat, please forgive my tardiness. Is there a link to a cam for the spillway? Or do they even have a cam there? If already answered, I apologize.

UStream link for spillway press conference and opening, starts at 2:30.

Morganza on UStream


Lots of tv stations are streaming it, too. Here's one link.
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Pat, please forgive my tardiness. Is there a link to a cam for the spillway? Or do they even have a cam there? If already answered, I apologize.
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Quoting JLPR2:


We actually got hail from that thunderstorm in a few municipalities. Very rare for a tropical island to get hail.


They issued a special statement at 1:10 PM AST for that that is posted at blog. Yes,not common to have hail here.
Member Since: April 29, 2009 Posts: 75 Comments: 14243
349. JLPR2
Quoting Tropicsweatherpr:
I am under a torrential thuunderstorm as I type this.Go to my blog and see the radar and flood advisories in Puerto Rico.

Link


We actually got hail from that thunderstorm in a few municipalities. Very rare for a tropical island to get hail.
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Strong Earthquake:
13-MAY-2011 22:47:55 10.11 -84.26 6.0 70.0 COSTA RICA
Edit: Sorry, seems to be "old"
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Quoting hydrus:
What a year already. I pray this hurricane season is uneventful compared to what has happened so far .


Amen to that!!!
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A wind gust was officially measured to 72 mph at Indian Rocks beach via the NWS. I hear it really caught people at the beach off guard who weren't expecting anything till later tonight.
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I just got wacked here in Pinellas County. I can honestly say I was happily surprised we had a thunderstorm this strong today. Top wind gusts here up to 61 mph, lots of leaves and small tree tree branches down. Picked up about an inch of rain with this very fast mover. Torrential rain as usual but not as heavy as the storms we get in the classic summer pattern. I got some wild lighting here too, lots of close lighting hits and one may have hit a tree or building because there was a very close lighting hit followed by some smoke where i saw the lighting hit!


Its always nice to get a surprise severe storm. Ive definitely had worse storms then this before but this was pretty impressive!
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Quoting NOLA2005:


I couldn't say for sure, but I don't think there are many, if any, structures in the upper part of the floodway. I think the main concern is for communities farther down, along the I-10 corridor and below.

I haven't heard anyone discuss any scenarios as far as structures being pushed off foundations or destroyed from rushing water, just massive flooding lasting for a number of weeks. Of course that doesn't mean it can't happen.....
What a year already. I pray this hurricane season is uneventful compared to what has happened so far .
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U.S. Army Corps of Engineers says it will open first bay of Louisiana's Morganza Spillway at 3 p.m. (4 p.m. ET) today.
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341. Jax82
Quoting aquak9:
we got thunder and a real sweet outflow here, Jax82. BUT...it's sunny and clear to the south...sigh...pretty to look at, that's about it.

You might get lucky. Got a rain gauge?


No rain gauge, i'm gonna get one soon since im addicted to weather. Looks like we're gonna get a good soakin' for a while. Plenty of yellow and oranges comin our way for the next few hours. So much for golf ;) Oh, and its 66 degrees, down from 88 earlier.
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a whole slew of t-warnings justt came out for areas of fl's west coast...heads up winds to 60mph ,small/medium. size hail,blinding rain leading to localized flooding and vivid dangerous cloud to ground lightning ....
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Quoting hydrus:
We were wondering the same thing. One might think that a gradual opening would not only save the wildlife, but save houses as well.


I couldn't say for sure, but I don't think there are many, if any, structures in the upper part of the floodway. I think the main concern is for communities farther down, along the I-10 corridor and below.

I haven't heard anyone discuss any scenarios as far as structures being pushed off foundations or destroyed from rushing water, just massive flooding lasting for a number of weeks. Of course that doesn't mean it can't happen.....
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We got a nice 1.25"of rain today in north central FL. No more rain in the forecast though.

Is there anything tropical in our near future?
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duplicate
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The Province of Manitoba has taken the unprecedented step of intentionally breaching the dike on the Assiniboine River. This will flood about 200 homes and huge expanse of farmland between the River and Lake Manitoba. This is to prevent an uncontrolled breach further down that would cause flooding in thousands of homes and properties.

The River is currently flowing at half the rate of Niagara Falls and isn't expected to peak until the 19th/20th.

Manitoba is no stranger to flooding... but this has been referrred to as "a flood of record" and "300 year flood" in Manitoba.

Excellent pictures here



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Quoting NOLA2005:


A couple of days ago someone in ACOE stated that one reason they wanted to perform a gradual opening was so that the wildlife would have a chance to escape. I can only hope that farmers have made arrangements to move their livestock to higher ground. :(
We were wondering the same thing. One might think that a gradual opening would not only save the wildlife, but save houses as well.
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334. beell
cat5hurricane,
(stepped out for a bit)

It's cool. Changing your mind about the weather is allowed! We still have time to change it again!
Member Since: September 11, 2007 Posts: 142 Comments: 16590
The National Weather Service in Ruskin has issued a

* Severe Thunderstorm Warning for...
northwestern Hillsborough County in Florida.
Pinellas County in Florida.

* Until 230 PM EDT

* at 149 PM EDT... National Weather Service Doppler radar indicated a
severe thunderstorm capable of producing damaging winds in excess
of 60 mph. This storm was located near Indian Rocks Beach... or
near Seminole... and moving northeast at 35 mph.

* The severe thunderstorm will be near...
largo.
Highpoint.
Dunedin.
Safety Harbor.
Oldsmar.
Town 'n' country.

This includes Interstate 275 between exits 6 and 50.


Precautionary/preparedness actions...

For your protection move to an interior room on the lowest floor of
your home or business. This storm has the potential to cause serious
injury and significant damage to property.
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Morganza Spillway Travel Times with a 1-2:30 pm CDT Opening today

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 423 Comments: 128231
River Photos from the Times-Picayune - NOLA.com
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 423 Comments: 128231
Quoting Chicklit:
Sad thinking of all the drowned wildlife...And what about the farm animals?


A couple of days ago someone in ACOE stated that one reason they wanted to perform a gradual opening was so that the wildlife would have a chance to escape. I can only hope that farmers have made arrangements to move their livestock to higher ground. :(
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Quoting NOLA2005:


Those boulders (called rip-rap) are larger and much heavier than they look. In fact, that is what is routinely used to line the banks of much of the levees along the river. Since they will be opening the gates gradually, I'd be very surprised if they went anywhere ;)


Good to hear, thanks NOLA :)
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Quoting Chicklit:
At a news conference scheduled for 3:30 p.m. (Eastern time), the New Orleans district commander for the corps, Col. Ed Fleming, will explain the decision to open the floodgates, which should take place around that time. A live video stream from the Morganza spillway has been set up by the corps to show the flooding.

NYTimesLink

Good "before" shot Eyes to Sea. Sad thinking of all the drowned wildlife. Also scarey hearing it will cover 3,000 square miles. You wonder how many will not evacuate. And what about the farm animals?
It's all so huge I cannot imagine...


I know, I worry about the ones not leaving. I know if my grandad were still living, he wouldnt leave. He lost friends and kin in the 1927 flood that didnt have a chance, but...these old river people are a real stubborn bunch. Saw the river at Vicksburg yesterday, standing on the bluff. It's something we do here, ya know, like ya'll go down to the beach and watch the ocean....we go to Vicksburg and watch the river. I have to tell you, it's the higest, fastest and most frightening I have ever witnessed.
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Quoting atmoaggie:
That part of I-10 is normally ~30 feet above the level of the water in the swamp it traverses. East and west of the Atchafalaya basin I-10 only goes to roadbed (not bridge) outside the leveed area. Is it possible to get water on I-10 at some point? Yes. Is it likely to happen and to be closed? No. Are the bridges in danger? I seriously doubt it.

From below, on the water:


Same, near one of the channel overpasses:


Cool. Thanks for the info. Looks like they constructed it for that "500-year" flood level.
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A few disturbances...
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Quoting EYEStoSEA:
Just wondering....are those big boulders on the dry side of the Morganza spillway...gonna go with tha flow?


Those boulders (called rip-rap) are larger and much heavier than they look. In fact, that is what is routinely used to line the banks of much of the levees along the river. Since they will be opening the gates gradually, I'd be very surprised if they went anywhere ;)
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Quoting rod2635:


It is interesting. The Don and Volga rivers in Russia also have an interesting relationship. Their starting points are hundreds of miles apart. Yet the Don's eastern watershed boundary is within spitting distance of the Volga for hundreds of miles and the two approach within 60 miles before making hard turns, the Don flowing into the Black Sea and the Volga into the Caspian. A canal now connects them at their close point, started by the Ottomans centuries ago and finished by the Russians post WW2.


That might be something they'd consider for the Mississippi and the Atchafalaya. That way, if the Atchafalaya becomes the main path to the gulf, NOLA will still be able to connect.
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pretty nasty squall line developing offshore tpa,I think a severe thunderstorm watch should be issued for the peninsula shortly,heavvy rains,isolated small to medium sized hail and strong winds over 50mph possible....
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At a news conference scheduled for 3:30 p.m. (Eastern time), the New Orleans district commander for the corps, Col. Ed Fleming, will explain the decision to open the floodgates, which should take place around that time. A live video stream from the Morganza spillway has been set up by the corps to show the flooding.

NYTimesLink

Good "before" shot Eyes to Sea. Sad thinking of all the drowned wildlife. Also scarey hearing it will cover 3,000 square miles. You wonder how many will not evacuate. And what about the farm animals?
It's all so huge I cannot imagine...
Member Since: July 11, 2006 Posts: 14 Comments: 11314
Quoting emcf30:
I know it is probably deceiving from the angle of the wedcam Pat posted. The river seams it to the top. At what point would they close down ship traffic in the area. Looks like the wake would go over the levees.
The GFS does not have good news for flooded areas...Link
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StAug- your new gauge will hold up to 13 inches! but heck, if you get 13 inches, we've got a LOT more to worry about, than measuring the rain!

0.25" here so far, a gentle rain.
Member Since: August 13, 2005 Posts: 165 Comments: 25908
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Just wondering....are those big boulders on the dry side of the Morganza spillway...gonna go with tha flow?
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Quoting aquak9:
Buddha on a Barge!!

It's raining!!


Starting here as well. I need the 1" tube in my gauge to flow over.
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Quoting aquak9:
Buddha on a Barge!!

It's raining!!


Well...that is some good news!... hope ya get a lot
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Quoting emcf30:
I know it is probably deceiving from the angle of the wedcam Pat posted. The river seams it to the top. At what point would they close down ship traffic in the area. Looks like the wake would go over the levees.


I asked pat about that yesterday- he said there was still 3 feet between the top of the river, and the top of the levees in that cam shot.

Also the barges are real slow, not too much wake. I asked about the chances of an errant barge hitting a levee, they said the levees are so sloped that it would run aground before breaching the top of a levee. It was a video from Levees dot org.
Member Since: August 13, 2005 Posts: 165 Comments: 25908
Buddha on a Barge!!

It's raining!!
Member Since: August 13, 2005 Posts: 165 Comments: 25908
I know it is probably deceiving from the angle of the wedcam Pat posted. The river seams it to the top. At what point would they close down ship traffic in the area. Looks like the wake would go over the levees.
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we finally are getting some rain here in jacksonville,fl.... :)
Member Since: August 7, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 251
we got thunder and a real sweet outflow here, Jax82. BUT...it's sunny and clear to the south...sigh...pretty to look at, that's about it.

You might get lucky. Got a rain gauge?
Member Since: August 13, 2005 Posts: 165 Comments: 25908
309. beell
Quoting cat5hurricane:

Pretty much. You're right. Probably just a matter of where and how much of that precipitation actually falls...


Fer sure. Still a guess at this point.
Member Since: September 11, 2007 Posts: 142 Comments: 16590

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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