Florida shivers; Hot Arctic-Cold Continents pattern is back

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 5:36 PM GMT on December 14, 2010

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Cold air sweeping southwards behind the fierce snowstorm that roared through the Upper Midwest over the weekend is bringing record low temperatures over much of the Southeast this morning. However, preliminary indications are that Central Florida's orange groves fared better than expected, and there were no reports of widespread damage to the orange crop. Record lows this morning included 32°F at West Palm Beach, 50°F in Key West, and 20°F in Jacksonville. Cold air flowing over the relatively warm waters of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario are creating heavy lake-effect snows, with 5 – 9 inches of new snow expected near Cleveland, OH today, and 2 – 5 inches near Syracuse, NY.

Hot Arctic-Cold Continents
I'm in San Francisco this week for the world's largest gathering of Earth scientists, the annual American Geophysical Union (AGU) conference. Over 15,000 scientists have descended upon the city, and there are a ridiculous number of fascinating talks on every conceivable aspect of Earth science, including, of course, climate change. One talk I attended yesterday was called, "Hot Arctic-Cold Continents: Hemispheric Impacts of Arctic Change.” The talk was given by Dr. Jim Overland of NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory, one of the world's experts on Arctic weather and climate (I spent many long months flying in the Arctic with him during the three Arctic field programs I participated in during the late 1980s.) Dr. Overland discussed the remarkable winter of 2009 – 2010, which brought record snowstorms to Europe and the U.S. East Coast, along with the coldest temperatures in 25 years, but also brought the warmest winter on record to Canada and much of the Arctic. He demonstrated that the Arctic is normally dominated by low pressure in winter, and a “Polar Vortex” of counter-clockwise circulating winds develops surrounding the North Pole. However, during the winter of 2009-2010, high pressure replaced low pressure over the Arctic, and the Polar Vortex weakened and even reversed at times, with a clockwise flow of air replacing the usual counter-clockwise flow of air around the pole. This unusual flow pattern allowed cold air to spill southwards and be replaced by warm air moving poleward. This pattern is kind of like leaving the refrigerator door ajar--the refrigerator warms up, but all of the cold air spills out into the house.


Figure 1. Conceptual diagram of how Arctic sea ice loss affects winter weather, from NOAA's Future of Arctic Sea Ice and Global Impacts web page.

The North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO)
This is all part of a natural climate pattern known as the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), which took on its most extreme configuration in 145 years of record keeping during the winter of 2009 – 2010. The NAO is a climate pattern in the North Atlantic Ocean of fluctuations in the difference of sea-level pressure between the Icelandic Low and the Azores High. It is one of oldest known climate oscillations--seafaring Scandinavians described the pattern several centuries ago. Through east-west oscillation motions of the Icelandic Low and the Azores High, the NAO controls the strength and direction of westerly winds and storm tracks across the North Atlantic. A large difference in the pressure between Iceland and the Azores (positive NAO) leads to increased westerly winds and mild and wet winters in Europe. Positive NAO conditions also cause the Icelandic Low to draw a stronger south-westerly flow of air over eastern North America, preventing Arctic air from plunging southward. In contrast, if the difference in sea-level pressure between Iceland and the Azores is small (negative NAO), westerly winds are suppressed, allowing Arctic air to spill southwards into eastern North America more readily. Negative NAO winters tend to bring cold winters to Europe and the U.S. East Coast, but leads to very warm conditions in the Arctic, since all the cold air spilling out of the Arctic gets replaced by warm air flowing poleward.

The winter of 2009 - 2010 had the most extreme negative NAO since record keeping began in 1865. This "Hot Arctic-Cold Continents pattern", resulting in a reversal of Polar Vortex and high pressure replacing low pressure over the Arctic, had occurred previously in only four winters during the past 160 years—1969, 1963, 1936, and 1881. Dr. Overland called the winter of 2009 – 2010 at least as surprising at the record 2007 loss of Arctic sea ice. He suspected that Arctic sea ice loss was a likely culprit for the event, since Francis et al. (2009) found that during 1979 - 2006, years that had unusually low summertime Arctic sea ice had a 10 - 20% reduction in the temperature difference between the Equator and North Pole. This resulted in a weaker jet stream with slower winds that lasted a full six months, through fall and winter. The weaker jet caused a weaker Aleutian Low and Icelandic Low during the winter, resulting in a more negative North Atlantic Oscillation, allowing cold air to spill out of the Arctic and into Europe and the Eastern U.S. Dr. Overland also stressed that natural chaos in the weather/climate system also played a role, as well as the El Niño/La Niña cycle and natural oscillations in stratospheric winds. Not every year that we see extremely high levels of Arctic sea ice loss will have a strongly negative NAO winter. For example, the record Arctic sea ice loss year of 2007 saw only a modest perturbation to the Arctic Vortex and the NAO during the winter of 2007 – 2008.

However, the strongly negative NAO is back again this winter. High pressure has replaced low pressure over the North Pole, and according to NOAA, the NAO index during November 2010 was the second lowest since 1950. This strongly negative NAO has continued into December, and we are on course to have a top-five most extreme December NAO. Cold air is once again spilling southwards into the Eastern U.S. And Europe, bringing record cold and fierce snowstorms. At the same time, warm air is flowing into the Arctic to replace the cold air spilling south--temperatures averaged more than 10°C (18°F) above average over much of Greenland so far this month. The latest 2-week forecast from the GFS model predicts that the Hot Arctic-Cold Continents pattern will continue for the next two weeks. However, the coldest air has sloshed over into Europe and Asia, and North America will see relatively seasonable temperatures the next two weeks.

For more information
The NOAA web page, Future of Arctic Sea Ice and Global Impacts has a nice summary of the “Hot Arctic-Cold Continents” winter pattern.

NOAA's Arctic Report Card is also a good source of information.

Francis, J. A., W. Chan, D. J. Leathers, J. R. Miller, and D. E. Veron, 2009: Winter northern hemisphere weather patterns remember summer Arctic sea-ice extent. Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L07503, doi:10.1029/2009GL037274.

Honda, M., J. Inoue, and S. Yamane, 2009: Influence of low Arctic sea-ice minima on anomalously cold Eurasian winters. Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L08707, doi:10.1029/2008GL037079.

Overland, J. E., and M. Wang, 2010: Large-scale atmospheric circulation changes associated with the recent loss of Arctic sea ice. Tellus, 62A, 1.9.

Petoukhov, V., and V. Semenov, 2010: A link between reduced Barents-Kara sea ice and cold winter extremes over northern continents. J. Geophys. Res.-Atmos., ISSN 0148-0227.

Seager, R., Y. Kushnir, J. Nakamura, M. Ting, and N. Naik (2010), Northern Hemisphere winter snow anomalies: ENSO, NAO and the winter of 2009/10, Geophys. Res. Lett., 37, L14703, doi:10.1029/2010GL043830.

Jeff Masters

Peeking Christmas Lights in Snowy Shrub (UnobtrusiveTroll10)
At my house. Their little heat has created a tiny viewing hole.
Peeking Christmas Lights in Snowy Shrub
Berry Cold Strawberries (lshunter)
Astin Farms in Plant City, FL waters their strawberry crop to prevent damage from frost as temperatures drop into the 20s overnight on December 14, 2010. More cold temperatures expected tonight.
Berry Cold Strawberries

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394. Dakster
9:34 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Ripplin - I like your avatar...
Member Since: March 10, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 10631
393. PalmBeachWeather
9:32 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Being here in Palm Beach county with the low humidity I find it is most essential to take more time applying moisturizer to prevent "dry-out"
Member Since: October 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 6000
392. atmoaggie
9:32 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting RipplinH2O:
Then what do liberals waste time doing? Not voting, evidently...ba-dum-bump! Thank you!...I'll be here all week
da dum, chhhhhh.
lmao.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12463
391. atmoaggie
9:31 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting misanthrope:


Makes sense since liberals generally don't waste time watching cable news.

Does anyone?
Quoting PensacolaDoug:


Media Matters is a joke just like MSNBC. MSNBC's ratings are in the tank because of their far-left viewpoint.
Could be just that viewers feel the need to reboot after a session of MSNBC...it is associated with Micro$H!#, after all.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12463
390. RipplinH2O
9:30 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting misanthrope:


Makes sense since liberals generally don't waste time watching cable news.

Then what do liberals waste time doing? Not voting, evidently...ba-dum-bump! Thank you!...I'll be here all week
Member Since: July 30, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 491
389. DDR
9:30 PM GMT on December 15, 2010

Currently, Trinidad and Tobago is being affected
by local unstable conditions which are producing
cloudy to overcast skies with occasional showers
and few isolated thundershowers


These conditions are expected to periodically
continue for the next 12 to 18hrs. The showery
and thundery spells will produce street/flash
flooding and accompanying gusty winds. Near hilly
areas, such as along the main ridge in Tobago and
northern Trinidad there is a high probability of
land slides. Some rivers courses could become
inundated and overspill.


Member Since: April 27, 2007 Posts: 14 Comments: 1723
388. PalmBeachWeather
9:25 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
misanthrope.That would be Mr. Wilson
Member Since: October 3, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 6000
387. Dakster
9:22 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
What's "cable news"?
Member Since: March 10, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 10631
386. misanthrope
9:21 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting PensacolaDoug:


...MSNBC's ratings are in the tank because of their far-left viewpoint.


Makes sense since liberals generally don't waste time watching cable news.

Member Since: February 17, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 545
384. Dakster
9:12 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
You could be in McMurdo or Vostok Antartica.. Could always be worse! Record Temp -129F... That's some cold air!
Member Since: March 10, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 10631
383. PensacolaDoug
9:10 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting Neapolitan:

Okay, now that we know that many of you hate Media Matters for daring to monitor conservative journalists, how about actually responding to the story at the base of all this? You know, the story that's being reported in far more places than Media Matters?

The fact of the matter is this: there is a deliberate, ongoing, and very well-funded campaign against science in this country. Entities with much to gain by maintaining the fossil fuel paradigm are pulling out all the stops to try to create confusion and controversy where none exists. Today's news is yet more evidence of that, and complaining about Media Matters doesn't change a thing.

Anyone care to comment on that?


Media Matters is a joke just like MSNBC. MSNBC's ratings are in the tank because of their far-left viewpoint.
Member Since: July 25, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 646
382. atmoaggie
9:08 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting Minnemike:
i think i actually recall my high school closing due to extreme cold during that time.. a Very rare happening in MN!
I can imagine that is rather uncommon.

From the look of it, might have been minus 35, easily.

I've been skiing in 0 F weather a few times. -35? I don't think so...
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12463
381. atmoaggie
9:08 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting Neapolitan:

I have them somewhere, and will release my tallies in early January. But I can tell you that just four weeks ago, Dr. Gerald Meehl (Senior Scientist for NCAR) testified under oath to the House Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment. In his wide-ranging testimony--a fascinating read--he noted that between January 1st and November 16th of this year, there had been 17,148 record daily highs in the U.S. against 6,315 record daily lows, a ratio of better than 2.71:1. He also stated that between January 1st, 2000, and November 16th, 2010, record daily highs had outnumbered record daily lows by 311,734 to 152,329, or slightly more than 2-to-1. He went on to say, "Thus, as the average temperature has warmed, the probabilities have shifted towards more unprecedented heat, and less unprecedented cold."

...oops, he forgot the rest of that statement...

...where we are measuring the temperatures by surface instruments.

To head off the "but NOAA says UHI is insignificant" tell that to someone living within a few miles of O'Hare for the last 30 years. They will tell you that lows just don't drop like they once did.

Everyone that lives in an area even slightly more rural than their closest official weather station will tell you that their low is almost always lower than the official ob.

And, no, no adjustments are made to observations before they are used for records. Only GISS, and the like, try to make amends for UHI, and, usually, by lowering the historical temps. (No, I don't know why they do it that way)
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12463
380. Minnemike
9:08 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting atmoaggie:
And that didn't even measure the temp from 2 am to 9am...
i think i actually recall my high school closing due to extreme cold during that time.. a Very rare happening in MN! (comment qualified for posting under self imposed condition #2 ;)
Member Since: July 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1320
379. atmoaggie
9:02 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting Minnemike:
no comment...! lol
And that didn't even measure the temp from 2 am to 9am...
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12463
378. Minnemike
8:49 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
A cool weather event like this MinneMike?
no comment...! lol
Member Since: July 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1320
376. RitaEvac
8:47 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 2 Comments: 9680
374. sflweatherguy
8:42 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
There was a cold snap in Jan 1981 that brought the dewpoint in Tampa down to 5.


Unless, those dewpoints in S Fl rise considerably from the 8-10 degress there at now, i wouldnt be surprised if they have to ajust minimums down at least by about 5 degress accross inland areas specially.
Member Since: August 16, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 81
373. nocaneindy
8:42 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
T-Dude, if your still on here, new KIND afd gives reasoning for your snow totals.

.NEAR TERM /TONIGHT AND THURSDAY/...

FORECAST FOCUS IS ON WINTER STORM.

MODELS IN FAIR AGREEMENT. TO EXTENT THEY DIFFER USING NAM WHICH
NORMALLY CAPTURES MESOSCALE FEATURES BEST IN SHORTER TERM.

BOTH MODELS HAVE THE LEADING EDGE OF A STRONG EQUIVALENT POTENTIAL
TEMPERATURE GRADIENT IN SOUTHERNCWA OVERNIGHT. SUCH AREAS FAVOR
BANDS OF RELATIVELY HIGH PRECIPITATION. NAM NORMALLY BETTER WITH
SUCH BANDS THAN GFS...AND I GENERALLY ACCEPT ITS QPF.

THIS IN TURN IMPLIES STRONG UPWARD MOTION...GOOD COOLING OF
COLUMN... AND ENHANCED DENDRITIC GROWTH. SO DECREASED CHANCE OF
ANYTHING BUT SNOW...INCREASED SNOW TO LIQUID RATIOS. SOUNDINGS
SUPPORT THE MOSTLY SNOW CONCEPT...BUT SLEET OR ZR NOT OUT OF
QUESTION IN SOUTH. USING AN ABOVE CLIMATOLOGY SNOW RATIO OF 15 TO 1
GIVES 5 TO 7 INCHES OVERNIGHT IN SOUTH...JUSTIFYING WARNING THERE.
STICKING WITH NAM QPF SNOW RAPIDLY DECREASES TO NORTH.

Link
Member Since: September 21, 2007 Posts: 34 Comments: 515
372. beell
8:41 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
365. nocaneindy 8:28 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
They are lucky to have a generator. Most fireplaces built nowdays are not worth a crap.

The watches and warnings are flyin'.




Link
Member Since: September 11, 2007 Posts: 145 Comments: 16918
371. hcubed
8:40 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting Neapolitan:

I have them somewhere, and will release my tallies in early January. But I can tell you that just four weeks ago, Dr. Gerald Meehl (Senior Scientist for NCAR) testified under oath to the House Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment. In his wide-ranging testimony--a fascinating read--he noted that between January 1st and November 16th of this year, there had been 17,148 record daily highs in the U.S. against 6,315 record daily lows, a ratio of better than 2.71:1. He also stated that between January 1st, 2000, and November 16th, 2010, record daily highs had outnumbered record daily lows by 311,734 to 152,329, or slightly more than 2-to-1. He went on to say, "Thus, as the average temperature has warmed, the probabilities have shifted towards more unprecedented heat, and less unprecedented cold."


Interesting.

I've noticed, that in some cases, they consider it to be a "record high" if it MATCHES a previous record high.

Shouldn't it only be considered a new record if it EXCEEDS the previous high?

Using that as a basis, I wonder if the ratio would change.
Member Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 289 Comments: 1639
369. Minnemike
8:40 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Ripplin and FLWater... i fully understand the last points expressed. i also fully appreciate quality discourse over contentious feuding. that is why in the face of seeing someone try to make swiss cheese from cheddar, I get riled up. glass houses, teapot and the kettle, and so forth.... when motivations are masking sincerity, i scoff and lunge. that is my weakness, and it is why i've had to pull myself from commenting on this blog before.

furthering my weakness, is when someone pulls that very wool over their own eyes while exhibiting an intellectual capacity to realize as such, and refuses to step up to the honesty of their own motivations.

why had Ripplin been going after Nea and not KerryInNOLA(admittedly benign today) over the last days of GW discussions, for instance..? our actions speak volumes, and my actions, and the motivations behind them, have been laid out clearly so someone such as myself doesn't implore me to state my base.

so with this comment, and to the benefit of the blog as a whole, i once again withdraw from commenting until cooler heads prevail... or some really cool weather event, per my interest, takes place.
Member Since: July 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1320
368. RitaEvac
8:40 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
ahhh, warm in TX

Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 2 Comments: 9680
365. nocaneindy
8:28 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting beell:


Glad I'm in TX, Dover!

Forgot to add that forecast PW values at or around .70"-pretty decent moisture for wintertime. A narrow band of 1/2" ice is believable across southern IN and on into KY as a guess. Farther N, a quick change to all snow. Farther S, the return flow may warm the column enough to be a mostly all-rain event.


My wife has family in that area(so I guess I do too). I told her to call them and make sure their generator was up to par. Ice like that is a nightmare. We got about a half inch in 2005, and some areas of town (Muncie,IN.)were without power for over 7 days.
Member Since: September 21, 2007 Posts: 34 Comments: 515
364. HurricaneKatrina
8:25 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
http://www.terracycles.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3:superstormexplanatio n&catid=1:earth&Itemid=5 Could this happen. How or how not. Debate me.
Member Since: August 19, 2008 Posts: 27 Comments: 267
361. beell
8:21 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
That ice storm looks pretty nasty beell if that pans out.


Glad I'm in TX, Dover!

Forgot to add that forecast PW values at or around .70"-pretty decent moisture for wintertime. A narrow band of 1/2" ice is believable across southern IN and on into KY as a guess. Farther N, a quick change to all snow. Farther S, the return flow may warm the column enough to be a mostly all-rain event.
Member Since: September 11, 2007 Posts: 145 Comments: 16918
360. FLWaterFront
8:18 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting Minnemike:
oh, i've seen all your comments, and know what you think about Nea, jerks, and what it takes to win over the hearts and minds of an undecided demographic... but what do You believe in.. what are Your thoughts about the the right or the left...... AGW??

no substantial statement has yet been made by you regarding Those queries; you've only been combating Nea, the jerks, and winning over the hearts and minds of what i strongly believe to be Your constituency, based on what i've seen.

i mean, shoot, do i care what you think? no! but i've given you a ledge by which you may 'know where to begin' if you so choose.


As with most issues, subjects, topics, beliefs, hypotheses, purported phenomena and so on...

Arguing about them is mostly futile. The reason for this is fairly simple, really. The vast majority of those participating have already made up their minds on the controversy, whatever it may be.

As a result, no matter how many facts or data, no matter how much evidence is presented -- on either side of the argument-- almost no one is going to have their position altered, almost no one is going to change their mind and almost no one is going to be influenced to "switch sides."

With all of that in mind, the wisest approach is to set the subject aside in a medium such as this one and concentrate instead on a less contentious basis for conversation, such as the currently existing weather patterns, for instance.

Now all of the above is nothing more and nothing less than my personal opinion, for whatever it is worth. I know that I myself offered up some commentary on the subject of AGW the other day, which may have been a mistake on my part. I personally prefer friendly discourse to a contentious debate between two sides who both have entrenched opinions.
Member Since: October 15, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 764
359. Neapolitan
8:17 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting DoverWxwatchter:
Neapolitan do you have a running total of the record highs versus record lows in the USA for the year so far?

I have them somewhere, and will release my tallies in early January. But I can tell you that just four weeks ago, Dr. Gerald Meehl (Senior Scientist for NCAR) testified under oath to the House Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment. In his wide-ranging testimony--a fascinating read--he noted that between January 1st and November 16th of this year, there had been 17,148 record daily highs in the U.S. against 6,315 record daily lows, a ratio of better than 2.71:1. He also stated that between January 1st, 2000, and November 16th, 2010, record daily highs had outnumbered record daily lows by 311,734 to 152,329, or slightly more than 2-to-1. He went on to say, "Thus, as the average temperature has warmed, the probabilities have shifted towards more unprecedented heat, and less unprecedented cold."
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13733
358. sflweatherguy
8:16 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Anyone seen the incredible 8 degree dewpoint in Miami with 13% humidity i have never seen that here before wow!


Link
Member Since: August 16, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 81
357. RipplinH2O
8:12 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting Minnemike:
oh, i've seen all your comments, and know what you think about Nea, jerks, and what it takes to win over the hearts and minds of an undecided demographic... but what do You believe in.. what are Your thoughts about the the right or the left...... AGW??

no substantial statement has yet been made by you regarding Those queries; you've only been combating Nea, the jerks, and winning over the hearts and minds of what i strongly believe to be Your constituency, based on what i've seen.

i mean, shoot, do i care what you think? no! but i've given you a ledge by which you may 'know where to begin' if you so choose.
My personal beliefs, like yours and everyone else's on this blog, are irrelevant to a scientific conversation. The only belief I've expressed here is that art is equally as important in conveying ideas as science. Name calling has no place here. This should be a place for open discussion and debate, not direction or crusades. As for my constituency, you give an old man a lot of credit not deserved. According to the little box beneath my last post, I've only been on here since July and only posted 213 comments. Constituency? So, as to your request to know my personal beliefs, I am again disinclined to acquiesce to your request. You have already stated you don't care and I've already stated they are irrelevant. Is it martini time yet?...
Member Since: July 30, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 491
355. beell
8:06 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
SREF putting a 70% bulls-eye over southern Indiana for "probability of freezing rain lasting three hours" (or more). The GFS would put it over central and N central KY based on 1000-850mb (near the surface) and 850-700mb (moist air above 0°C and above the boundary layer) thickness values

09Z SREF - Valid 09Z Thursday.
Member Since: September 11, 2007 Posts: 145 Comments: 16918
352. Minnemike
7:56 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting RipplinH2O:
EDITED: how about we just agree to disagree and move on? This isn't going to lead anywhere except to annoy the other bloggers...again!
sure, sounds good to everyone, undoubtedly. i anticipate you dropping the retorts.
Member Since: July 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1320
351. Minnemike
7:55 PM GMT on December 15, 2010
Quoting RipplinH2O:
I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request…means no! I have told you what I think, fell free to scroll up and re-read at your leisure…
oh, i've seen all your comments, and know what you think about Nea, jerks, and what it takes to win over the hearts and minds of an undecided demographic... but what do You believe in.. what are Your thoughts about the the right or the left...... AGW??

no substantial statement has yet been made by you regarding Those queries; you've only been combating Nea, the jerks, and winning over the hearts and minds of what i strongly believe to be Your constituency, based on what i've seen.

i mean, shoot, do i care what you think? no! but i've given you a ledge by which you may 'know where to begin' if you so choose.
Member Since: July 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1320
Quoting Minnemike:
try a little honesty... tell us what you actually think.
I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request...means no! I have told you what I think, fell free to scroll up and re-read at your leisure... EDITED: how about we just agree to disagree and move on? This isn't going to lead anywhere except to annoy the other bloggers...again!
Member Since: July 30, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 491
Quoting RipplinH2O:
I don't even know where to begin...so I won't
try a little honesty... tell us what you actually think.
Member Since: July 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1320
Since we're comparing websites, how about this one?

supreme court to hear global warming case

Also got it from politico.com:

"...The court will hear an appeal next year from electric utilities in the high-profile American Electric Power v. Connecticut case.

Power companies are challenging a lower court ruling that allowed states and environmental groups to move ahead with a public nuisance lawsuit seeking to force the utilities to slash their greenhouse gas emissions..."

Supreme court case No. 10-174.

From the SCOTUS website

"Issue: (1) Whether states and private parties may seek emissions caps on utilities for their alleged contribution to global climate change; (2) whether a cause of action to cap carbon dioxide emissions can be implied under federal common law; and (3) whether claims seeking to cap carbon dioxide emissions based on a court's weighing of the potential risks of climate change against the socioeconomic utility of defendants' conduct would be governed by %u201Cjudicially discoverable and manageable standards%u201D or could be resolved without %u201Cinitial policy determination[s] of a kind clearly for nonjudicial discretion.%u201D (Sotomayor, J., recused.)..."



BTW, what's wrong with ANY news organization stating that "...we should refrain from asserting that the planet has warmed (or cooled) in any given period without IMMEDIATELY pointing out that such theories are based upon data that critics have called into question...".

It sounds like they really are trying to let both sides be heard.
Member Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 289 Comments: 1639
Quoting Neapolitan:
Sorry; guess I misunderstood. See, I originally just posted a link to a story that's been reported on by many media outlets, and was inundated by folks not commenting on the story itself but rather on the single outlet I'd selected, which was just one of those many. (Maybe it was that out-of-right-field "Hungarian communist" remark that led me to see more vitriol than perhaps there really is.)
Oh, not just an opinion, and not just mine; there have been whole shelves of books and magazine articles written about the whole anti-science movement. Does anyone think it's just an accident that Americans are falling further and further behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math, while at the same time some institutionally downplay, say, the theory of evolution or the dangers of cigarette smoking or the true age of the earth...or global warming, even though there exist mountains of data behind each? (I've previously posted many links to some of that data; please write me if you want to know where to look.)
And Big Energy. And Big Tobacco. And many conservative politicians. And so on, and so forth...
Yes, I am. And news like today's is yet further proof that I--and many others--need to keep it going.
Carry on, Good King Richard for God is on your side (paraphrased from a very old movie about the crusades)...
Member Since: July 30, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 491
Quoting Minnemike:
you haven't even touched on the story one tiny shred. keep on keeping on with your blinders, and disingenuous attempts to hide your slant rants behind a thin veil of finger pointing towards those who lack cordiality.
I don't even know where to begin...so I won't
Member Since: July 30, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 491
Quoting nocaneindy:


Woohoo 0.2 for me, lol. Not what I want to see!


yeahh :/ ha
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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