Florida shivers; Hot Arctic-Cold Continents pattern is back

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 5:36 PM GMT on December 14, 2010

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Cold air sweeping southwards behind the fierce snowstorm that roared through the Upper Midwest over the weekend is bringing record low temperatures over much of the Southeast this morning. However, preliminary indications are that Central Florida's orange groves fared better than expected, and there were no reports of widespread damage to the orange crop. Record lows this morning included 32°F at West Palm Beach, 50°F in Key West, and 20°F in Jacksonville. Cold air flowing over the relatively warm waters of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario are creating heavy lake-effect snows, with 5 – 9 inches of new snow expected near Cleveland, OH today, and 2 – 5 inches near Syracuse, NY.

Hot Arctic-Cold Continents
I'm in San Francisco this week for the world's largest gathering of Earth scientists, the annual American Geophysical Union (AGU) conference. Over 15,000 scientists have descended upon the city, and there are a ridiculous number of fascinating talks on every conceivable aspect of Earth science, including, of course, climate change. One talk I attended yesterday was called, "Hot Arctic-Cold Continents: Hemispheric Impacts of Arctic Change.” The talk was given by Dr. Jim Overland of NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory, one of the world's experts on Arctic weather and climate (I spent many long months flying in the Arctic with him during the three Arctic field programs I participated in during the late 1980s.) Dr. Overland discussed the remarkable winter of 2009 – 2010, which brought record snowstorms to Europe and the U.S. East Coast, along with the coldest temperatures in 25 years, but also brought the warmest winter on record to Canada and much of the Arctic. He demonstrated that the Arctic is normally dominated by low pressure in winter, and a “Polar Vortex” of counter-clockwise circulating winds develops surrounding the North Pole. However, during the winter of 2009-2010, high pressure replaced low pressure over the Arctic, and the Polar Vortex weakened and even reversed at times, with a clockwise flow of air replacing the usual counter-clockwise flow of air around the pole. This unusual flow pattern allowed cold air to spill southwards and be replaced by warm air moving poleward. This pattern is kind of like leaving the refrigerator door ajar--the refrigerator warms up, but all of the cold air spills out into the house.


Figure 1. Conceptual diagram of how Arctic sea ice loss affects winter weather, from NOAA's Future of Arctic Sea Ice and Global Impacts web page.

The North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO)
This is all part of a natural climate pattern known as the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), which took on its most extreme configuration in 145 years of record keeping during the winter of 2009 – 2010. The NAO is a climate pattern in the North Atlantic Ocean of fluctuations in the difference of sea-level pressure between the Icelandic Low and the Azores High. It is one of oldest known climate oscillations--seafaring Scandinavians described the pattern several centuries ago. Through east-west oscillation motions of the Icelandic Low and the Azores High, the NAO controls the strength and direction of westerly winds and storm tracks across the North Atlantic. A large difference in the pressure between Iceland and the Azores (positive NAO) leads to increased westerly winds and mild and wet winters in Europe. Positive NAO conditions also cause the Icelandic Low to draw a stronger south-westerly flow of air over eastern North America, preventing Arctic air from plunging southward. In contrast, if the difference in sea-level pressure between Iceland and the Azores is small (negative NAO), westerly winds are suppressed, allowing Arctic air to spill southwards into eastern North America more readily. Negative NAO winters tend to bring cold winters to Europe and the U.S. East Coast, but leads to very warm conditions in the Arctic, since all the cold air spilling out of the Arctic gets replaced by warm air flowing poleward.

The winter of 2009 - 2010 had the most extreme negative NAO since record keeping began in 1865. This "Hot Arctic-Cold Continents pattern", resulting in a reversal of Polar Vortex and high pressure replacing low pressure over the Arctic, had occurred previously in only four winters during the past 160 years—1969, 1963, 1936, and 1881. Dr. Overland called the winter of 2009 – 2010 at least as surprising at the record 2007 loss of Arctic sea ice. He suspected that Arctic sea ice loss was a likely culprit for the event, since Francis et al. (2009) found that during 1979 - 2006, years that had unusually low summertime Arctic sea ice had a 10 - 20% reduction in the temperature difference between the Equator and North Pole. This resulted in a weaker jet stream with slower winds that lasted a full six months, through fall and winter. The weaker jet caused a weaker Aleutian Low and Icelandic Low during the winter, resulting in a more negative North Atlantic Oscillation, allowing cold air to spill out of the Arctic and into Europe and the Eastern U.S. Dr. Overland also stressed that natural chaos in the weather/climate system also played a role, as well as the El Niño/La Niña cycle and natural oscillations in stratospheric winds. Not every year that we see extremely high levels of Arctic sea ice loss will have a strongly negative NAO winter. For example, the record Arctic sea ice loss year of 2007 saw only a modest perturbation to the Arctic Vortex and the NAO during the winter of 2007 – 2008.

However, the strongly negative NAO is back again this winter. High pressure has replaced low pressure over the North Pole, and according to NOAA, the NAO index during November 2010 was the second lowest since 1950. This strongly negative NAO has continued into December, and we are on course to have a top-five most extreme December NAO. Cold air is once again spilling southwards into the Eastern U.S. And Europe, bringing record cold and fierce snowstorms. At the same time, warm air is flowing into the Arctic to replace the cold air spilling south--temperatures averaged more than 10°C (18°F) above average over much of Greenland so far this month. The latest 2-week forecast from the GFS model predicts that the Hot Arctic-Cold Continents pattern will continue for the next two weeks. However, the coldest air has sloshed over into Europe and Asia, and North America will see relatively seasonable temperatures the next two weeks.

For more information
The NOAA web page, Future of Arctic Sea Ice and Global Impacts has a nice summary of the “Hot Arctic-Cold Continents” winter pattern.

NOAA's Arctic Report Card is also a good source of information.

Francis, J. A., W. Chan, D. J. Leathers, J. R. Miller, and D. E. Veron, 2009: Winter northern hemisphere weather patterns remember summer Arctic sea-ice extent. Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L07503, doi:10.1029/2009GL037274.

Honda, M., J. Inoue, and S. Yamane, 2009: Influence of low Arctic sea-ice minima on anomalously cold Eurasian winters. Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L08707, doi:10.1029/2008GL037079.

Overland, J. E., and M. Wang, 2010: Large-scale atmospheric circulation changes associated with the recent loss of Arctic sea ice. Tellus, 62A, 1.9.

Petoukhov, V., and V. Semenov, 2010: A link between reduced Barents-Kara sea ice and cold winter extremes over northern continents. J. Geophys. Res.-Atmos., ISSN 0148-0227.

Seager, R., Y. Kushnir, J. Nakamura, M. Ting, and N. Naik (2010), Northern Hemisphere winter snow anomalies: ENSO, NAO and the winter of 2009/10, Geophys. Res. Lett., 37, L14703, doi:10.1029/2010GL043830.

Jeff Masters

Peeking Christmas Lights in Snowy Shrub (UnobtrusiveTroll10)
At my house. Their little heat has created a tiny viewing hole.
Peeking Christmas Lights in Snowy Shrub
Berry Cold Strawberries (lshunter)
Astin Farms in Plant City, FL waters their strawberry crop to prevent damage from frost as temperatures drop into the 20s overnight on December 14, 2010. More cold temperatures expected tonight.
Berry Cold Strawberries

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Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
what are ya all fighting about tonight


Bing Crosby...Was he mean to his kids?
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Well, hopefully I can convince some folks that net metering laws will help produce renewable power for this country!
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Quoting Grothar:


It can be interesting sometimes. Testy, obtrusive, sarcastic, petulant, but interesting, nonetheless.

Hang on, let me find my dictionary....
LOL.
True, though!
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Quoting pottery:

True!
But watch it with that word, 'continent'.
It can be misconstrued as having a nasty prefix.


They have pills for that now. I shall send you some if need be. LOL
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Quoting Neapolitan:

I ask all this as I do occasional IT and web work for a client involved in energy management services, and I've learned a lot about the whole process, so I'm strictly curious about the PV solution you've selected.


I am going to eventually answer all the questions but will start the educational process with net metering since this determines PAYBACK for the system. It is critical. Lack of a good net metering program will KILL solar.

Since you mentioned Tennessee in another post, well, Tennesee has no net metering laws (at least as of 2009). The bottom line is that one with skin in the smart/net meter game I would never even consider putting solar in that state in my economic bracket.

Quoting Neapolitan:

Which type of panels are you using? What kind of mount, fixed or tracking? What's their efficiency rating? What size panels? And how many? Are you using some type of power optimizer/managementsystem like National Semiconductor's SolarMagic device? At what latitude are you? Are there trees around you? How many days of sunshine does your location receive?


I will eventually answer all these questions but let’s start with a hypothetical example from, let’s say, Tennessee and Texas. It is possible to have solar in Tennessee if one has no skin in the net metering game (I will show how); I wouldn’t even consider solar in that state but have in Texas so will have to use it as an example for us mere mortals. I am blessed to have 1 retail electric provider in the state to whom I have access who approximates net metering… I did discover on the bill that I have both a positive and negative charge for the net meter itself, and this is going to offset some of the losses I will incur owing to the efficiency improvements. My retail plan is fine but there are those in the state who have no access to the plan… and states which have no legal protection whatsoever.

In my economic situation PAYBACK is the most important thing so let's start there. Unlike efficiency improvements that will generally pay out in 3-12 years these panels are on the order of 25 year paybacks so anything that negatively impacts the monetary aspect really hurts.

The most important thing to do before starting with PV is to understand how things work with the local utility. Net metering is very important. The concept of net metering is described here:

a href=" http://howsolarworks.1bog.org/net-metering/
" target="_blank">Net Metering

Note that one of the first net metering law in the country was in Texas and stipulated backwards running meters with any excess generated by the home being paid for at wholesale prices by the utilities.

I like backward running meters.

Texas is also the leader in homes buying green power (folks like myself).

Green Pricing

Tennessee, it should be noted from the links, is the worst state in terms of net metering laws. Texas went from one of the best to the worst with the introduction of federally mandated smart meters. Anything that is federally mandated tends to get folks backs arched down here and this does not have good consequences for how the implementation is done.

In my own particular situation I have a relatively satisfactory situation with my retail electric provider (the first green home electric provider in Texas) but, given very negative experiences of solar home owners in Texas who do not have this choice, well, I was awoken out of my happy stupor when the green retailer was bought by a larger concern who has another, much larger retailer who does not offer anything like net metering. For right now they promise the business will stay separate... but who knows. I have priced out going off grid with dangerous batteries just in case. Everybody mentions the additional cost of off-grid but there are safety concerns also with batteries.

So let's do some case studies on how this works.

So, let's look at let's say Tennessee. Basically, anybody in that state who does not fit a certain profile would be taking a huge risk (which is now true in Texas with the new rules). Let's say that there is a house that while very efficient on building standards still manages to use a little under 200,000 kWH per year for mostly business related purposes, let's say computer servers. Let's further say that this house puts up a 33 solar panel system that generates say 6500 kWH per year. This system will be continually be sending energy only in one direction, namely, sucking it from the grid. The issue of resale is a non-issue since the computer servers swamp the generation ability. So, if you have this sort of economic reality you can put up 33 solar panels and never have to sell any power whatsoever. You don't have to face the reality of what it means to have your smart meter enable you to sell power back into the grid (a promise made without stating the price), something that could very well have appeared on the web from that very same house! That person doesn’t care about it really… no skin in the game. Furthermore, what about the rest of the power? Simple, you just buy up RECs (renewable energy credits). They would cost about let’s say 458 dollars a year for about 200,000 kWH, or about 2.25 per MWH (tongue in cheek that number just slipped off my hand… wink wink).

So let's compare this with my little old Texas home. The first thing to note is that Texas homes are the worst in the nation so the cheapest thing to do (once again 11 year payouts) is to focus on efficiency. My microsoft hohm score is now 95 as opposed to the average Texas home of 51. Fantastic. Happy with the payout; nay, overjoyed.

So, when I went solar I offset the 6,500 kWH of electric use with a 33 panel system. What really happens, however, is that generate month by month different amounts of power versus use. So, in the first month, a very sunny October coupled with low temperatures meant I was sending tons of electricity into the grid during the day while using the bulk of what we need during the night. Also, good news one would think... the system efficiency hovered at 92% while 77% was used in the purchase economics. Good news, right? Well, no... unlike the best net metering programs in the nation there is no averaging over the course of the year the net and it is done on a monthly basis. So, I exceeded my 500 kWH monthly quota of putting electricity into the grid and am getting only essentially wholesale rates. Now, I used about 400 kWH so only put in about 250 kWH net into the grid during the month but the new smart meters do not "net out" what is put into the grid.

It is not a bad situation for me since I knew this all going into the solar but folks who didn't know about these sort of things are outraged, especially when they have no choice but to give the utilities their PV generated power. Yes, you also have folks in Texas who learned once smart meters were installed that there retail providers negotiated price for the electricity was zero and found out that the best they could do was wholesale prices. And once again, what if the green retail provider goes out of business?

The point is that the pricing reality is very different for myself and somebody who uses over 30 times the power I do. My skin is in the game with net metering. My payout depends upon it. The guy who uses over 30 times the amount of electricity for the same size system can care less about net metering.

What about RECs. Well, I get to hold the RECs for my excess generation. They would be worth about 12 dollars a year, about 2 dollars for each MWH put into the grid (not on a net basis but a gross basis). The number of about 2.25 for the Tennesee case I used earlier was not pulled from the sky and includes a modest profit for a large sale seller. The whole idea of these RECs was to help folks like me put in solar. I didn’t consider them in the economics since I find things like carbon markets useless (end user carbon tax please… I do like California electric utility pricing with base use). Okay, assuming one can find a trader for 12 dollars of credits would I sell them? Heck no. Do you think that I will let somebody claim “being green” with no skin in the game for a measely 3% return on investment? No. No. Slavery was abolished in the 19’th century. I will hold on to them no thanks.

It is also very important to realize that the net metering drives one to very seriously look at efficiency improvements BEFORE putting in solar rather than afterwards. Even the best laws are written so that excess is sold at wholesale rates. I agree fully with this since you don't want to make solar home power into a money-making business. Case in point. The local newspaper has a series on smart meters and there was a conclusion that a single light bulb is not important (it isn't). He's a neighbor (and I am still energy moron... he has indicated in his blog he is going to do a story on this sooner or later). Anyway, I have 5 in every ceiling fan at 13 watts, and also 26 watt CFL for the outdoor lighting, and I like the blog so took it as a challenge. Now, these were not even on the market about 2 years ago, but I discovered you can get 7 watt CFLs and 8 watt LEDs so I did this. Reduces yearly consumption to about 5500 kWH/Y BUT as noted, even in the best of situations this would be sold back wholesale (which is essentially my situation). So, rather than a 3 year payout these changes will have a longer one. Note what would have happened on the other hand had I made the improvements to efficiency first. I would only need a 5500 kWH system to offset electricity consumption, thereby saving on capital cost upfront. Lot's of upfront savings (we are talking serious bucks here funded by quitting smoking). We don't have PACE loans here in Texas, but perhaps that is a blessing since Fannie or Freddie won't touch a home that has any PACE funded improvements.

Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency... comes before solar. The paragraph above is my existential situation on why.

Oh, and from the above it should be clear that what I want to do is to ensure that I use as much as the solar I generate myself. This is not trivial. I have to shift usage on things like running the refrigerator, etc., to peak times, which is precisely the opposite of the intent of the 2005 federal law. Since the smart meters are worthless for seeing how much energy devices use (the fact that only net is reported by the smart meters makes things worse... there were two ways to design the input/output stream which give the same information to utilities but different to the homeowner and they chose the one that... gives... LESS... info to homeowners) I have whipped out the trusty little Kill-a-Watt, much more powerful than a smart meter in finding where power is used (and a lot cheaper… this is actually this laughable claim being made for smart meters). I am not quite able to shift enough power from peak use to avoid the wholesale prices. Yes, I am economically driven to ensure that power is kept off the grid during peaking. To give you an idea of how useful wind is during peak power the record setting day in Texas there was about 64,000 MW of power demand... 630 MW supplied by wind. Unfortunately when it is really hot... their ain't no wind. We have 10,000 MW boiler plate in Texas. Now, I was generating during the peak but the perversion in the system is having me keep it... off the grid.

A technical overview of my system can be found at the link

Enphase display

The panels are Suntech 175s... I did look at more efficient panels thinking that the install costs would be offset but no... that was the cheapest option. The microinverters, as noted above, are working at about a 93% efficiency last time I checked assuming the panels are performing according to boiler plate specifications... the temperature dependence is right on track. I do have one shade issue with power lines and the microinverters do a fine job... shade only impacts the panel with the power line shade with our above ground power lines in Houston. Very happy with the system and indeed the web based display convinced me to expand after 1 day after a pilot. In retrospect silly BUT I was seriously burned with solar hot water. The system is fine… for Germany. The backup was excellent at heating my garage. The replacement hybrid tankless (with solar preheat) is kicking rear end in this cold spell… the solar preheat is adding about 36 dollars a year, which in no way pays for a 10,000 system which is fine if you want an excellent heater for your house that also produces some hot water.

Making the decision to expand based upon the web link above is much more than I can say for the energy use information I can pull off of the smart meter web site (for free, granted, but it is precisely the same info you get on things that cost in the hundreds of dollars, except with a 2 day delay).

Trees.

Nea, you opened a can of worms of the invasive type.

To do this project I had to remove an invasive that was on the property when we bought it. I did it anyway right before the hurricane season and was glad I did since there was a hollowed out area from carpenter ants (no wonder we had woodpeckers). That invasive tallow willow then caused a gas leak when the roots rotted... whoever put in that tallow put it right above the gas line (brilliant) and when the roots rotted the house line sheared at the connection with the main line. My neighbor literally told me he suspected it was related to something involving them shaking the ground which just goes to show how much hysteria media can cause (working in geomechanics... yah... even the utility blamed it on "ground settling"). The solar installers strangely enough were the ones who noticed the gas. I did start with a 3 panel trial since I didn't really trust the technology.

Invasives are nasty. It’s highly likely that the hypothetical computers in Tennesee are used to send out articles on invasives as a recent study showed that there are at least 29 groups working on this at the federal level. Even here in Texas it makes no sense… the forestry folks say that pampas grass is invasive and yet the TDOT is planting it right and left along roads.

Invasives are horrible but the government is not having an impact (read on).

Now, let's get into the fact that 2 billion folks worldwide cook with wood (with harmful environmental impacts in many cases). I had to also remove a pecan. So, one of the solar installers, noting I was just going to put it on the curb (the city of Houston is looking into things like biochar for this), wanted it for BBQ. Pecan BBQ. I made a joke and asked "what is in it for me" and was promised pork BBQ. So, when the install day came around I asked where is the pig. Well, I was told by the installer that he wasn't a rich man and the wild pigs are not ready to shoot. My wife loved the crew (we have done a lot of construction) since they were polite.

About 2 weeks after putting in the system the folks who installed the system were laid off. By-by green jobs. So, I am wondering if really he is using the wood for his main cooking right now at his little place in the country? I have no objection to limited wood use for BBQ (charcoal is horrible though), and wild pigs are good (it is artificial growth methods that adds up to 10 times to biogas generation of farm animals… stop the artificial stuff and biogas would be less of an issue).

I was also doing additional planting looking forward to solar. The pecan is being replaced with a Shantang maple, a species recommended by Texas A&M. But then I have put in 4 Bradford pears back in 2008. They are all over the place here and have nice fall colors (like the Chinese Tallow). I got them on sale at a store that gives away CFLs on earth day. I don't like the fact that their garden center sell lots of invasives but I never suspected...

Four 2009 USDA "weeds of the week" now grace my home. I installed them before the invasive designation occurred. Wonderful. Have to rip those out. Will be watching this blog pretty carefully in late January to see when the cold will end. Actually, I think the nursaries also really use this info since the trees cannot be purchased until they decide to release them, which will depend upon the weather I have been told by the plant shop. Mexican Plum and Eastern Redbud should be safe....

And yes you were able to get the USDA weeds of the week in 2010 at the store that sells energy star and gives out CFLs on earth day.

Since you mentioned rain water recycling in another post let's go even further... with this drought I wish I had grey water and black water recycle. I should be able to do wash water recycle (which is legal in Texas) without too much problem except for the fact that there ain't no plants where this would come out except cactii who don't need it. For shower/bath water recycle--the legality of this in Texas is in flux and a grey area, pun intended--that would be great since it would water the foundation. You can have all the drought tolerant plants in the world but still you do need to water a bit to keep your foundation in check... grey water recycle would help a lot. Black water... fertilizer man.

The trees are very important. You know going back to a very high profile case in Tennesse the neighbors in the fourth richest neighborhood in the US didn't like the idea of solar panels. I didn't have the same problem--they are fully in view of the street--with my HOA but solved things in a different way which was part of the proposal. I have gone to heavy xeriscaping and you will note on the solar link it is called the Bluegate Botanial Garden based upon neighbor comments. Just made the paper. The solar panels were fully in sight. Did anybody notice them? Well, also, for folks passing by when working in the garden? Do they mention the solar panels? NO. They mention the garden.

With a nice enough garden the visual blight of the panels (I don't find them ugly but some do) is not even noticed.

The garden is a very important part of the solar in my case.

Lastly there is a home in Crawford Texas that has grey/blackwater recycle, geothermal, solar, native Texas plants and much more... for economic reasons! The previous resident of that house (they have since moved) also had solar panels installed on the property of a residence they had in DC.

But in both cases this historical resident didn’t have to worry about net metering either, and signed the 2005 energy bill.

Any likeness for the Tennessee personage may or may not be a coincidence wink wink.

But there is no skin in the game either.
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what are ya all fighting about tonight
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Quoting EYEStoSEA:


LOL.......well agree or disagree there are a lot of intelligent folks on this blog......I promised myself when I retired I would not let my mind retire..so I try to learn one thing new every day and I find this blog a good place to do that.


It can be interesting sometimes. Testy, obtrusive, sarcastic, petulant, but interesting, nonetheless.
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Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


It's like watching reruns of a TV. show. Same stuff...different day.



Agreed, same person on the other end, I believe. SSI was perma-banned, yet has continued to try to creep back in, numerous times.
Member Since: July 23, 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 12414
That was before Ziggy Stardust I do believe.

Will the Patriots game on Sunday be a snow bowl?
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 5913
Quoting Grothar:


That is OK, pot. At least you got the correct continent.

True!
But watch it with that word, 'continent'.
It can be misconstrued as having a nasty prefix.
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Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


I thought it was a nice holiday video. Bing passed away a few months after it was taped.


It was great! I never knew the two of them sang together. Bridging of two generations. Nice.
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Quoting atmoaggie:
What do you mean? I'm winning! And you're not going to take that away from me.


Quoting Inyo:
Ossgss: the 'new north pole' thing was meant to be silly but I did realize after I posted it that it's probably going to confuse one of those people who thinks the axis of the earth can shift... so yeah, if I draw another one I will take that out.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 5913
Quadrantid,one coming your way. Beer that is, hope you don't get any big blows.
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Pa rum pum pum pum
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Quoting pottery:

ooooppps!
Absolutely correct! The Guyana's (French, British, Dutch) still confuse me!
Especially since they all changed their names.
Except Guyana, of course.
Very sensible.


That is OK, pot. At least you got the correct continent.
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Quoting PSLFLCaneVet:



Thanks.

I did not start it, but I will not back down. If one calls out another, than that one should stand and defend their position.

Is this any different than offering an opinion on climate, etc.?




It's like watching reruns of a TV. show. Same stuff...different day.
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Quoting Grothar:


I thought it was in French Guiana??

ooooppps!
Absolutely correct! The Guyana's (French, British, Dutch) still confuse me!
Especially since they all changed their names.
Except Guyana, of course.
Very sensible.
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Severe thunderstorm time here in Sydney -- fun fun :)

The supercell that's getting all the warnings can be seen on the radar -- http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR714.loop.shtml#skip

It's fascinating for me, given I don't know as much as I'd like about weather -- you can see it moving leftward of the wind... but my question is -- the feature at either the 48 minutes past or 54 past frame, where the storm appears, briefly, to take a "hooked" shape -- is that the kind of hook echo people talk about when looking for tornadic supercells, or is it just a random feature as the storm is evolving? :)

Oh, and lob me a beer too -- it's steaming hot here in the office, and the aircon doesn't seem to be working...
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Quoting Grothar:


Try and keep up geepy!!!

Sorry, must be the beer. :)
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Quoting Grothar:
So much for "Peace on Earth".

Some nights the blog is so pleasant; other nights it is like an evening with one's in-laws.


LOL.......well agree or disagree there are a lot of intelligent folks on this blog......I promised myself when I retired I would not let my mind retire..so I try to learn one thing new every day and I find this blog a good place to do that.
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Quoting Grothar:
So much for "Peace on Earth".

Some nights the blog is so pleasant; other nights it is like an evening with one's in-laws.



Thanks.

I did not start it, but I will not back down. If one calls out another, than that one should stand and defend their position.

Is this any different than offering an opinion on climate, etc.?


Member Since: July 23, 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 12414
Nite all!! Time for happy hour ( Time shifting, as we speak!!!
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Quoting Grothar:


I believe it is a Norwegian word. When someone is acting stupid, we call them a "yurk"


I thought it was a nice holiday video. Bing passed away a few months after it was taped.
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Quoting geepy86:

I thought that was cheyenne?


Try and keep up geepy!!!
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Quoting Grothar:


I believe it is a Norwegian word. When someone is acting stupid, we call them a "yurk"

HAHAHAHAHA
Good yoke, that!
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Quoting pottery:

Actually, it's Cayenne, Suriname.


I thought it was in French Guiana??
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Quoting Grothar:


No, that is cayenne, like in Cayenne, Wyoming.

I thought that was cheyenne?
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Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


And what does "yurk" mean? I'm not up on the current lingo.


I believe it is a Norwegian word. When someone is acting stupid, we call them a "yurk"
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Quoting Grothar:


No, that is cayenne, like in Cayenne, Wyoming.

Actually, it's Cayenne, Suriname.
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Quoting BigToe:
BigToe:
Aw what the heck, The Myan calander ends in 2012, as well as the human race. Who wants a beer?

me
==========
Let's serve 'em up, they're here!!
its mayans and as one cycle ends another cycle begins
Action: Quote | Ignore User
========================
I know, Ain't it cool??
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Just call me slow Ingmar.
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Quoting bappit:

Are you seizing on an irrelevant joke to score points? Scoring points is basically a waste of time, you know.
What do you mean? I'm winning! And you're not going to take that away from me.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
I retract my question from yesterday about bringing Dewey and DJ back to lighten up the blog...their elder statesmen have accomplished the objective
Member Since: July 30, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 491
Quoting Grothar:


That would make it youran calender. Do we have to teach you everything.

He is being a little slow tonight...
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Quoting geepy86:
Isn't Cyan pepper?


No, that is cayenne, like in Cayenne, Wyoming.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting pottery:

That's Cayenne....
wow.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
Quoting atmoaggie:
Well, the magnetic north has been migrating, umm, well, north over the last 200 years...

Are you seizing on an irrelevant joke to score points? Scoring points is basically a waste of time, you know.
Member Since: May 18, 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 5913
Quoting pottery:

That's Cayenne....

oops
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Quoting geepy86:
Isn't Cyan pepper?

That's Cayenne....
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Quoting BigToe:
BigToe:
Aw what the heck, The Myan calander ends in 2012, as well as the human race. Who wants a beer?

me
==========
Let's serve 'em up, they're here!!
its mayans and as one cycle ends another cycle begins
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.