Tropical Depression Two Along South Texas Coast

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 4:46 PM GMT on July 08, 2010

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Hello everybody, this is Senior Meteorologist Shaun Tanner writing Dr. Masters' blog while he is on vacation.

Tropical Depression Two formed overnight in the northern Bay of Campeche and is now making landfall along the extreme south coast of Texas. A hurricane hunter was sent into the system and found a low-level circulation. While there are some reports of tropical storm strength winds in the squalls of the system, there is just not enough evidence to upgrade the storm to tropical storm strength before landfall.

The satellite representation of the depression is quite impressive as half of the depression is now over landfall. Brownsville radar currently is showing the effects of the depression with heavy rain and thunderstorms through much of southern Texas.

The biggest lingering effect from the depression will be to prolong the devastating flooding that has been ongoing in southern Texas and northeast Mexico. Not including the rain that will fall due to the depression, over the past 7 days, the area near Houston has received over 10 inches of rain, while some inland areas of Texas has received over 4 inches of rain. The problem gets worse in the Mexican state of Coahuila near the Texas border has received upwards of 20 inches of rain in the past 7 days due to substantial moisture pouring into the area.

This surging watershed has caused massive flooding throughout the region, with the area near Laredo, Texas and Nuevo Laredo, Mexico being the hardest hit. The flooding has caused the major border crossing between those two cities to be closed as the Rio Grande surged and threatened to top the crossing's bridge. A contingent of Mexican officials, including the mayor of Piedras Negras, Coahuila, touring the flooding damage in an airplane crashed Wednesday, killing all six onboard. Evacuations on both sides of the border has forced tens of thousands of people out of their homes, while over 100,000 people were without water service. The flooding problem is extra dangerous because swollen dams had to release some of their water downstream into areas that towns that have already been swamped. It was even reported that one of these releases by the National Water Commission of Mexico was the largest emergency water release in the country.

Needless to say, the rain from Tropical Depression Two will only further the flooding problems in southern Texas and northeast Mexico. Figure 3 shows the severe map and the greens represent Flood Watches and Warnings. You can see almost the entire states of Texas and Oklahoma are under these watches and warnings in anticipation of several inches of rain from the remnants of Tropical Depression Two.


Figure 1. Satellite loop of Tropical Depression Two.


Figure 2. Storm-centered radar as depression makes landfall.


Figure 3. Severe map.

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Quoting Hurricanes101:


yup no question, but of course the questions will continue

Yea, I guess the only question would be is it a one time gust? an outflow from a collapse TS? or were the winds for over 30 ot 60 minutes pushing close to that 36mph value? If it was a one time thing and winds were consistently around 25mph then I guess questions are fair. I am good with it being a TD but it was far from a TS so glad they didnt upgrade.
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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

I went back and read everything...I think the whole thing is a misunderstanding and no one is wrong. I read it maybe how he did as you saying cyclogensis can occur in the mid levels which by definition is in correct however i believe what you were implying is you need solid support in the mid levels aka high humidty values to enhance cyclogensis to enhance true convection for occuring. I beleive his point was that the SAL is not a killer to cyclogensis, just a set back. whew.


I don't know how he read it. My point is not necessarily about the conditions in the mid-levels needed for tropical cyclogenesis but about the cyclogenesis itself....it doesn't occur just down at the bottom in the surface layer. It occurs in both the low and mid-levels at the same time, though the system is of course strongest at the surface.
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Please don't take offense friend...... just some random Tequila generated thoughts! :)

Thelmores!...I will drink to that!...I can hardly wait for a "real" storm to enjoy your graphics - nobody does it better!
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I'm having fun watching all those videos of tracking cyclones and their landfall. I could share some on the blog if you all please. Very interesting stuff.
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Quoting IKE:
NOGAPS showing high pressure sprawling over the Atlantic and stretching over the eastern USA...translated...No Bonnie on this here run....


Hey....... who you gonna believe? Me..... or your lyin eyes? LOL
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Quoting Levi32:


Right and I don't know enough about dust to challenge any of that.....what I disagreed on was his statement: "....at the surface where cyclogenesis occurs...."

That's all. The rest of it is fine.

I went back and read everything...I think the whole thing is a misunderstanding and no one is wrong. I read it maybe how he did as you saying cyclogensis can occur in the mid levels which by definition is in correct however i believe what you were implying is you need solid support in the mid levels aka high humidty values to enhance cyclogensis to enhance true convection for occuring. I beleive his point was that the SAL is not a killer to cyclogensis, just a set back. whew.
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Quoting Levi32:


Solid Tropical Depression there. It looked it on satellite and radar at landfal.


yup no question, but of course the questions will continue
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Quoting IKE:
Brownsville,Texas top wind from TD2....Max Gust Speed 36 mph


A solid tropical depression there. It looked it on satellite and radar at landfall.
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618. IKE
Brownsville,Texas top wind from TD2....Max Gust Speed 36 mph
Member Since: June 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37858
Quoting earthlydragonfly:
This is what starts political correctness and keeps people from communicating. I personally think you comment is out of order in the sense that you knew and know what he meant. Ill bet not one person took offense and knew he meant it from a scientific perspective. It is sensitive but I have seen people on this blog beg for storms to form.. That is what the scientist part of all of use are here for. The humanitarian side doesnt want any one to lose their home or life for that matter.

IMHO

no worries...opinions are like...everyone has one which is why this world is a great place. My point was even in a scientific matter it still isnt cool to many. Glad a lot of you dont see it that way so we are good to go.
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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

Right but what he was saying was if you have good low level convergence and an upper level divergence, cyclogensis can survive dust in the mid levels and actually dust can serve as CCN and to enhance it and an over abundence of dust will slow growth but once it clears the SAL region it can spit the dust out and still rely on the low level convergence, a moisturing mid level region with solid upper level divergence.


Right and I don't know enough about dust to challenge any of that.....what I disagreed on was his statement: "....at the surface where cyclogenesis occurs...."

That's all. The rest of it is fine.
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Quoting Hurricanes101:


?No no they renamed it to "As the blog turns"

nice...i like that.
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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

I understand what you are saying I would just suggest to choose your words wisely as many people may take offense to it. If you said that here even with what your intentions were, you are on your own.
This is what starts political correctness and keeps people from communicating. I personally think you comment is out of order in the sense that you knew and know what he meant. Ill bet not one person took offense and knew he meant it from a scientific perspective. It is sensitive but I have seen people on this blog beg for storms to form.. That is what the scientist part of all of use are here for. The humanitarian side doesnt want any one to lose their home or life for that matter.

IMHO
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Quoting Levi32:


I never excluded the surface goodness. I said that tropical cyclogenesis does not occur solely at the surface. Tropical cyclones are strongest at the surface but even in infancy they are not confined to the surface. They always have structure up in the mid-levels as well, ESPECIALLY when talking about African Easterly Waves in the eastern Atlantic, which is what he was addressing.

Right but what he was saying was if you have good low level convergence and an upper level divergence, cyclogensis can survive dust in the mid levels and actually dust can serve as CCN and to enhance it and an over abundence of dust will slow growth but once it clears the SAL region it can spit the dust out and still rely on the low level convergence, a moisturing mid level region with solid upper level divergence.
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Quoting Levi32:


I have no reason to believe I'm wrong unless you show me that I am.....you still haven't addressed what I corrected you on. Until you do, avoiding it will only confirm my belief that I'm correct. Nothing I'm doing here is cocky or disrespectful. I challenged your statement, which is allowed last time I checked.

Have a nice day...
I agree with you on this Ike. Someone can tell me I am wrong on something and well I might be but if you can't show me how I have no reason to believe I am.
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Quoting thelmores:


Hey Levi...... seeing you are making friends tonight! LOL

You should try to relax more friend! All the negative Karma will shorten your life! :D

In retrospect, some of the smartest people I have known in my life, were the quietest.... and had no interest in proving how smart they were.

But hey...... I am a Red Neck from South Carolina...... I can beat my chest with the best of them! LOL But I have mellowed considerably in the 5-6 years I have been on this blog.

Please don't take offense friend...... just some random Tequila generated thoughts! :)


Yes I know. I get in a sour mood when somebody can't even handle being challenged in the slightest without getting all hyped up about it. This blog should be able to handle debates.

And heck, half of what I know I would never have learned if I didn't pipe up and challenge people who knew more than me.
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Quoting IKE:


*reaches for graham crackers and chocolate milk*




Cyclonebuster.




I hate it too.
LMAO! At least it's better than that mix you did yesterday of oatmeal cookies and Coke.
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Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
Who wants to see some interesting pictures of very intense hurricanes?

Hurricane Katrina at maximum intensity:



Hurricane Rita with gusts reaching 213 mph:



Propagation of Hurricane Ike:



Those are some cool pictures. Sometimes its hard to believe something so beautiful can be so dangerous. Mother Nature gives as good as she gets. I liked this video. If I was younger I'd be a hurricane hunter lol. Well at least I got to board the plane once. :)

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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

I really didnt want to get into this but I pulled out three of my met books and for tropical or mid lat cyclogensis all three stated you can not have it without LOW LEVEL convergence no matter how favorable mid and upper level feature are. Yikes, I think he is right.


I never excluded the surface, goodness. I said that tropical cyclogenesis does not occur solely at the surface. Tropical cyclones are strongest at the surface but even in infancy they are not confined to the surface. They always have structure up in the mid-levels as well, ESPECIALLY when talking about African Easterly Waves in the eastern Atlantic, which is what he was addressing.
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Quoting Levi32:


I have no reason to believe I'm wrong unless you show me that I am.....you still haven't addressed what I corrected you on. Until you do, avoiding it will only confirm my belief that I'm correct.

Have a nice day...


Hey Levi...... seeing you are making friends tonight! LOL

You should try to relax more friend! All the negative Karma will shorten your life! :D

In retrospect, some of the smartest people I have known in my life, were the quietest.... and had no interest in proving how smart they were.

But hey...... I am a Red Neck from South Carolina...... I can beat my chest with the best of them! LOL But I have mellowed considerably in the 5-6 years I have been on this blog.

Please don't take offense friend...... just some random Tequila generated thoughts! :)
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605. IKE
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
Well you were incorrect in the first place. Anyways, aren't you late for your errands?


*reaches for graham crackers and chocolate milk*


Quoting will45:


or the tunnel guy


Cyclonebuster.


Quoting severstorm:

Hey Ike, Don't start on that subject LOL


I hate it too.
Member Since: June 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37858
Quoting KoritheMan:


Stay tuned for scenes from the next exciting episode of tropical waves!


?No no they renamed it to "As the blog turns"
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Quoting Levi32:


I have no reason to believe I'm wrong unless you show me that I am.....you still haven't addressed what I corrected you on. Until you do, avoiding it will only confirm my belief that I'm correct. Nothing I'm doing here is cocky or disrespectful. I challenged your statement, which is allowed last time I checked.

Have a nice day...

I really didnt want to get into this but I pulled out three of my met books and for tropical or mid lat cyclogensis all three stated you can not have it without LOW LEVEL convergence no matter how favorable mid and upper level feature are. Yikes, I think he is right.
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Quoting Baltimorebirds:
Wave off of africa looks intense.But the question is,will it survive?.We'll just have to find out.


Stay tuned for scenes from the next exciting episode of tropical waves!
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I think we need a bigger boat
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600. JRRP


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Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
Who wants to see some interesting pictures of very intense hurricanes?

Hurricane Katrina at maximum intensity:



Hurricane Rita with gusts reaching 213 mph:



Propagation of Hurricane Ike:

I enjoyed the Images Miami No matter what words you used to describe them. I am not here to bicker or personally attack anyone either, this place should be used to get away from that, Peace to all.
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Quoting IKE:
Rough bunch in here this tropical season. It's almost as bad as the dreaded GW crowd.


or the tunnel guy
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Quoting USSINS:



Well, you just keep believing that. Hope you do well with it.
Well you were incorrect in the first place. Anyways, aren't you late for your errands?
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Quoting Levi32:


I have no reason to believe I'm wrong unless you show me that I am.....you still haven't addressed what I corrected you on. Until you do, avoiding it will only confirm my belief that I'm correct.

Have a nice day...



Well, you just keep believing that. Hope you do well with it.
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Quoting CoffinWood:


Well, I don't agree with you. I didn't take it to mean that he thought the death and destruction was "cool," just the images themselves.


meteorologists are like psychiatrists. Ability to keep a rational distance between weather and the spirit.
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Quoting IKE:
Rough bunch in here this tropical season. It's almost as bad as the dreaded GW crowd.

Hey Ike, Don't start on that subject LOL
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its all good, i just threw that out there. no harm no foul...just not something i would say out loud here.
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Quoting USSINS:



No, I don't have to run, but I'm not gonna chin wag with the pubescent and disprectful either. And, I do have errands. The blog is quite safe without me here. Heck, they've got you! ;)

You have a good game, like I said, you're smart one. Don't overplay it and get too cocky.

Peace out.


I have no reason to believe I'm wrong unless you show me that I am.....you still haven't addressed what I corrected you on. Until you do, avoiding it will only confirm my belief that I'm correct. Nothing I'm doing here is cocky or disrespectful. I challenged your statement, which is allowed last time I checked.

Have a nice day...
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Quoting KoritheMan:


Cool from a meteorological perspective. But I get what you're saying. Perhaps we should replace the word "cool" with "fascinating"? Ah darnit, that's not going to work either, is it? No matter which word is used in contexts like these, it is pretty much impossible not to sound inhumane, even though that is not the intention of the person saying such things. :/

My 2 cent Agree
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589. IKE
Rough bunch in here this tropical season. It's almost as bad as the dreaded GW crowd.
Member Since: June 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37858
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
You are not understanding what I meant. Yes I understand the devastation all three of those systems caused, but I'm not speaking about what they caused but rather their appearance. I can stare in awe at those systems for hours, and yes I find the image cool, not the devastation.

I understand what you are saying I would just suggest to choose your words wisely as many people may take offense to it. If you said that here even with what your intentions were, you are on your own.
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Quoting Levi32:


Of course you've gotta run. Naturally.

You didn't even address the "cyclogenesis occurs at the surface" which was the point of my post. I read the part about the dust and that was not what I was correcting you on. Cyclogenesis does not just happen at the surface. That statement is false.

I didn't challenge any other part of your post. How about you read more carefully yourself. Thank you.



No, I don't have to run, but I'm not gonna chin wag with the pubescent and disrespectful either. And, I do have errands. The blog is quite safe without me here. Heck, they've got you! ;)

You have a good game, like I said, you're a smart one. Don't overplay it and get too cocky.

Peace out.
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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

Hey man I live here and yes every single person here would agree with me. Still such a sore topic and no one would ever consider that cool even just the picture. The better words would be do you want to see something sad...heartbreaking...depressing...scary...life altering...


Well, I don't agree with you. I didn't take it to mean that he thought the death and destruction was "cool," just the images themselves.
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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

Hey man I live here and yes every single person here would agree with me. Still such a sore topic and no one would ever consider that cool even just the picture. The better words would be do you want to see something sad...heartbreaking...depressing...scary...life altering...

There are still clothes in trees from peoples houses...slabs just surrounded by weeds...childrens toys laid out down streets where they didnt rebuild. Everytime I see that picture, these pictures above come to mind.
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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

Hey man I live here and yes every single person here would agree with me. Still such a sore topic and no one would ever consider that cool even just the picture. The better words would be do you want to see something sad...heartbreaking...depressing...scary...life altering...
You are not understanding what I meant. Yes I understand the devastation all three of those systems caused, but I'm not speaking about what they caused but rather their appearance. I can stare in awe at those systems for hours, and yes I find the image cool, not the devastation.
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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

Yea that is very very very far from cool...cool was def the wrong word to use there.


Cool from a meteorological perspective. But I get what you're saying. Perhaps we should replace the word "cool" with "fascinating"? Ah darnit, that's not going to work either, is it? No matter which word is used in contexts like these, it is pretty much impossible not to sound inhumane, even though that is not the intention of the person saying such things. :/
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Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
Do you need to take the wording so seriously? I just meant the image and not the devastation. Does "interesting" work better for you?

Hey man I live here and yes every single person here would agree with me. Still such a sore topic and no one would ever consider that cool even just the picture. The better words would be do you want to see something sad...heartbreaking...depressing...scary...life altering...
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Quoting HaboobsRsweet:

Yea that is very very very far from cool...cool was def the wrong word to use there.
Do you need to take the wording so seriously? I just meant the image and not the devastation. Does "interesting" work better for you?
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Quoting Levi32:


It's been a closed surface low at the surface since last night...


Slight up-tick in thunderstorm activity there, in last few frames.
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Quoting USSINS:



ROTFL. No, I'm not wrong, Levi.

My information can be substantied. And, it'd serve you well to go back and actually "read" the post. I think I mentioned that dust was not as much of an issue at the surface, and that it could serve to stunt a growing system, suggesting that "growth" or further development into the mid-levels.

And, there is documented, Master's repeated info that suggests that in some cases dust has actually served to promote cyclone development, depending largely on concentrations.

Before you go correcting someone, why don't you do a little fact-checking first and actually comprehend the post that's made.

Like I mentioned before, you're a smart young man, but you've got few things to learn still yourself. And, I do enjoy your posts, meant that. But, us ol' whooper snappers know a thing or two ourselves. ;P

Take it easy. Gotta run.


Of course you've gotta run. Naturally.

You didn't even address the "cyclogenesis occurs at the surface" which was the point of my post. I read the part about the dust and that was not what I was correcting you on. Cyclogenesis does not just happen at the surface. That statement is false.

I didn't challenge any other part of your post. How about you read more carefully yourself. Thank you.
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Quoting Kristina40:
I'm going to have nightmares now Miami. Katrina terrified me and I only got her outer bands here in Panama City.
How about Opal (1995)? Or Hurricane Earl (1998)? Maybe Georges (1998)? Not even Ivan (2004)? Did any of these systems terrorize you? I'm just eager to know what you do when strong systems like these approach.
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Quoting Levi32:


Wrong, tropical cyclogenesis occurs in both the low and mid-levels of the atmosphere, especially when we're talking about tropical waves in the eastern Atlantic. Dry air/dust in the mid-levels (around 700mb) is a big killer of developing tropical disturbances or cyclones. It doesn't have to be at the surface to do its dirty work. You need deep convection to be able to fire upwards and if there is dry air/dust in the mid-levels then downdrafts get accelerated and convection collapses.



ROTFL. No, I'm not wrong, Levi.

My information can be substantied. And, it'd serve you well to go back and actually "read" the post. I think I mentioned that dust was not as much of an issue at the surface, and that it could serve to stunt a growing system, suggesting that "growth" or further development into the mid-levels.

And, there is documented, Master's repeated info that suggests that in some cases dust has actually served to promote cyclone development, depending largely on concentrations.

Before you go correcting someone, why don't you do a little fact-checking first and actually comprehend the post that's made.

Like I mentioned before, you're a smart young man, but you've got few things to learn still yourself. And, I do enjoy your posts, meant that. But, us ol' whooper snappers know a thing or two ourselves. ;P

Take it easy. Gotta run.
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Classic Cape Verde Wave......

If it can navigate the dry dust, this wave is going to be a player!

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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