Winter Storm Xynthia kills 62 in Europe

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 4:21 PM GMT on March 01, 2010

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Devastating Winter Storm Xynthia ripped a swath of destruction through Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, and Germany over the weekend, killing at least 62 people. It was Europe's 5th deadliest winter storm of the past 60 years. Hardest hit was France, where at least 51 died. The storm also caused six deaths in Germany, including a 2-year-old boy blown into a river and drowned. Three people were dead in Spain, and Belgium, Portugal, and England had one fatality each. At least ten people are still missing. Most of the deaths in France occurred when a powerful storm surge topped by battering waves up to 25 feet high, hitting at high tide, smashed though the sea wall off the coastal town of L'Aiguillon-sur-Mer. A mobile home park built close to the sea wall was particularly hard-hit. The sea wall was several hundred years old, built in the time of Napoleon, and locating a mobile home park so close to it showed poor coastal development practices, critics said. The storm cut power to more than 1 million homes in France, and up to 1 million customers in Portugal also lost power. A few wind peak wind gusts measured during the storm:

Portugal
Pampilhosa da Serra 147 km/h (91 mph)
Penhas Douradas 126.1 km/h (78 mph)
Porto (Airport LPPR) 113km/h (70 mph)

Spain
Lardeira: 196.1 km/h (122 mph)
Serra do Eixe: 157 km/h (98 mph)
Campus de Vigo: 146.9 km/h (92 mph)
Gandara: 145.8 km/h (91 mph)

France
Eiffel Tower, Paris: 175 km/h (106 mph)
Saint-Clement of the Whales: 159km/h (99 mph)
Charente-Maritime: 161km/h (100 mph)

A Personal Weather Station in Les Portes-en-Re recorded sustained winds of 143 km/h (89 mph) gusting to 180 km/h (112 mph) before losing power at the height of the storm. According to Meteo France, the maximum recorded gust from Xynthia for elevations lower than 1200m was 160 km/h along the coast and 120 km/h inland. In 1999, Winter Storm Lothar brought gusts of almost 200 km/h to coastal areas and up to 160 km/h in the interior at these lower elevations.


Figure 1. Six-hour animation of the surface winds as Winter Storm Xynthia crossed the Bay of Biscay and smashed into France.

Destructive European storms of the past 60 years:
2010: Winter Storm Xynthia of February 27, 2010 killed 51 people in France, Spain, and neighboring countries, and did $2 - $4 billion in damage. Lowest pressure: 967 mb.

Winter Storm Klaus hit northern Spain and southwest France January 23 - 25, 2009, and was Earth's most costly natural disaster of 2009, causing $5.1 billion in damage and killing 26. Minimum pressure: 967 mb.

Kyrill (January 18, 2007) killed at least 45, with Germany suffering the most fatalities (13). Minimum pressure: 964 mb.

Back-to-back winter storms Lothar and Martin December 26-28, 1999) killed 140 people, 88 of the victims in France. Minimum pressure: 961 mb (Lothar), 965 mb (Martin).

The Burns' Day Storm of 1990 killed 97, mostly in England. Minimum pressure: 949 mb.

The Great Storm of 1987 was Europe's "storm of the century". It killed 22 people in England and France. Minimum pressure: 953 mb.

The North Sea Flood of 1962 killed 318 people--315 of them in Hamburg, Germany.

The North Sea Flood of 1953 killed 2,000 people in the Netherlands and England.

Xynthia's warm air surge sets records
One reason Xynthia became so powerful is that it formed very far south, where it was able to tap into an airmass that was unusually warm and moist. Satellite measurements (Figure 2) showed a plume of high total precipitable water (the amount of precipitation one can produce by condensing all the water vapor from the surface to the top of the atmosphere), about 300% above average, flowing from southwest to northeast along Xynthia's cold front. Enhancing the amount of moisture was the presence of very warm sea surface temperatures 1°C above average along this plume. As this extra moisture flowed into the storm, the moisture condensed into rain, releasing the "latent heat" stored up in the water vapor (the extra energy that was originally used to evaporate the water into water vapor). This latent heat further intensified Xynthia. The storm's central pressure fell to 966 mb at the storm's peak intensity, reached at 18 GMT Saturday after it passed over Spain's northwest corner.

As warm, tropical air surged northeastwards in advance of Xynthia's cold front, it set several all-time high temperature records for the month of February. Melilla, Spain hit 34°C (93°F) at 3pm local time on the 27th, beating previous highest February temperature of 30.6°C, set in 1979. The temperature surged upwards a remarkable 9.1°C (16°F) in one hour as Xynthia's warm front passed through. Record February warmth was also observed in the Canary Islands as Xynthia's warm front passed though.


Figure 2. Satellite measurements show a region of high total precipitable water (the amount of precipitation one can produce by condensing all the water vapor from the surface to the top of the atmosphere) up to 300% above average, flowing from southwest to northeast along Xynthia's cold front. Enhancing the amount of moisture was the presence of very warm sea surface temperatures along this plume, about 1°C above average. If this pool of very warm water is still around in July, it could lead to an earlier than average start to the Atlantic hurricane season. Image credit: Sheldon Kusselson, NOAA/NESDIS, and National Hurricane Center.

Next storm
For the the U.S., the next winter storm of note is a moderately strong low pressure system currently over Texas that is expected to move quickly eastwards today and Tuesday. The storm should bring an inch or so of snow to Atlanta and northeast Alabama, and 2 - 4" to the nearby mountains of South and North Carolina, including Charlotte. After that, the models show a long break from winter storm activity for the Eastern U.S. Beginning Sunday, it looks like it will be the Midwest's turn, when a powerful winter storm will drop out of the Rockies, then move across the northern tier of Midwestern states early next week.

Next post
I'll have a new post Tuesday or Wednesday.

Jeff Masters

Xynthia - High seas in Carcavelos (Portugal) (rozzopt)
High seas an waves from storm Synthia, with storm-surge taking over the entire beach, and "attacking" bars usually 30meters away from the sea.
Xynthia - High seas in Carcavelos (Portugal)

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Quoting Skepticall:


But yet these graphs don't agree with yours. Plus why not put a percentage up there and not PPM makes it seem like so much more when the percentage is very low.

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Using percentage is disingenuous and shows a lack of understanding of "steady state." You don't need a significant change in percentage of something to change the state of your observed reaction.
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Quoting Skepticall:


Am I just not supposed to reply back to him? That doesn't sound like fun.


oh, it was nothing personal at all, I just get sick of the debates tho.
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Quoting tornadodude:
and the blog was so enjoyable....

Do you think admin would get irritated if I flag every single GW/CC post on blogs that don't pertain to GW/CC?
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Quoting CycloneOz:


Yeah, high speed rail "transport" would be another cool thing, too.

But you'd be surprised how fast we can move water these days...with filtering. Maybe not super-sonic speed, but fast enough to keep a flood plain from flooding in the first place.

Rivers / creeks...most common areas that spread flooding.

"Waterworks" would suck on these rivers about to overflow like all hell, preventing them from overflowing banks and levies.

When you start messing with water flow like that, you impact a lot more than just flooding. You impact agricultural interests along that river (the Mississippi valley is so fertile because of silt dropped by periodic flooding), you impact recreational interests along the river, businesses, and also where that river drains into the ocean. Lots and lots of downstream effects.
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and the blog was so enjoyable....
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In association with an "interstate waterworks," the Fed would be very good at creating desalination stations all over America, thus further reducing the threat of drought anywhere in the CONUS.
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Quoting RitaEvac:


Cant.... gave all the money to the banks and for the wars


Wars...I'm okay with.
Banks...not even.

Nothing "is too big to fail." By doing what they did, they've screwed up all the market forces and fowled up free enterprise.

The Fed should stick with "fixing" things that it is good at. Those things are being discussed here, and I'm loving it! :)
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The massive 8.8 earthquake that struck Chile may have changed the entire Earth's rotation and shortened the length of days on our planet, a NASA scientist said Monday.
The quake, the seventh strongest earthquake in recorded history, hit Chile Saturday and should have shortened the length of an Earth day by 1.26 milliseconds, according to research scientist Richard Gross at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.
"Perhaps more impressive is how much the quake shifted Earth's axis," NASA officials said in a Monday update.
The computer model used by Gross and his colleagues to determine the effects of the Chile earthquake effect also found that it should have moved Earth's figure axis by about 3 inches (8 cm or 27 milliarcseconds).
The Earth's figure axis is not the same as its north-south axis, which it spins around once every day at a speed of about 1,000 mph (1,604 kph).
The figure axis is the axis around which the Earth's mass is balanced. It is offset from the Earth's north-south axis by about 33 feet (10 meters).
Strong earthquakes have altered Earth's days and its axis in the past. The 9.1 Sumatran earthquake in 2004, which set off a deadly tsunami, should have shortened Earth's days by 6.8 microseconds and shifted its axis by about 2.76 inches (7 cm, or 2.32 milliarcseconds).
One Earth day is about 24 hours long. Over the course of a year, the length of a day normally changes gradually by one millisecond. It increases in the winter, when the Earth rotates more slowly, and decreases in the summer, Gross has said in the past.
The Chile earthquake was much smaller than the Sumatran temblor, but its effects on the Earth are larger because of its location. Its epicenter was located in the Earth's mid-latitudes rather than near the equator like the Sumatran event.
The fault responsible for the 2010 Chile quake also slices through Earth at a steeper angle than the Sumatran quake's fault, NASA scientists said.
"This makes the Chile fault more effective in moving Earth's mass vertically and hence more effective in shifting Earth's figure axis," NASA officials said.
Gross said his findings are based on early data available on the Chile earthquake. As more information about its characteristics are revealed, his prediction of its effects will likely change.
The Chile earthquake has killed more than 700 people and caused widespread devastation in the South American country.
Several major telescopes in Chile's Atacama Desert have escaped damage, according to the European Southern Observatory managing them.
A salt-measuring NASA satellite instrument destined to be installed on an Argentinean satellite was also undamaged in the earthquake, JPL officials said.
The Aquarius instrument was in the city of Bariloche, Argentina, where it is being installed in the Satelite de Aplicaciones Cientificas (SAC-D) satellite. The satellite integration facility is about 365 miles (588 km) from the Chile quake's epicenter.
The Aquarius instrument is designed to provide monthly global maps of the ocean's salt concentration in order to track current circulation and its role in climate change.
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Quoting jeffs713:

I don't think the technology is in place to move that much water at that speed on-demand like that. A better option IMO would be a nationwide high-speed rail network. For not only people, but cargo. Amtrak is ancient technology (with the exception of the Accela line in the northeast). Get it upgraded to something on-par with Europe, and quite a few problems from pollution to rail congestion would be gone.


Yeah, high speed rail "transport" would be another cool thing, too.

But you'd be surprised how fast we can move water these days...with filtering. Maybe not super-sonic speed, but fast enough to keep a flood plain from flooding in the first place.

Rivers / creeks...most common areas that spread flooding.

"Waterworks" would suck on these rivers about to overflow like all hell, preventing them from overflowing banks and levies.
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Quoting jeffs713:

I don't think the technology is in place to move that much water at that speed on-demand like that. A better option IMO would be a nationwide high-speed rail network. For not only people, but cargo. Amtrak is ancient technology (with the exception of the Accela line in the northeast). Get it upgraded to something on-par with Europe, and quite a few problems from pollution to rail congestion would be gone.


Cant.... gave all the money to the banks and for the wars
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Quoting jeffs713:

Can't make Jazz Fest this year. The other half has too much planned. I will be in NOLA mid-April, not sure how much time I will have to meet up with people, though.


In the interest of good domestic policy, that would be your "better half," Jeff -- "other half" just doesn't have the same diplomatic panache... :)
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Quoting nrtiwlnvragn:
Another upcoming Hurricane Conference

Going to that one...
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12463
Quoting TampaTom:


They have me working all over the place... I've registered as a volunteer and I'm sleeping on our local WCM's hotel room floor... :-)


What a "collegiate" experience you have ahead of you! Sounds like so much fun!
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Quoting CycloneOz:


I LOVE THE INTERSTATE! Done in the interest of national security...it truly is a feat.

You know what would be another "interstate-like" feat they could endeavor to work on, that I would support 1,000,000%:

An "interstate waterworks project"

For those who have too much water, the "waterworks" moves it at super-sonic speed to areas with not enough water. It even could follow the highway system.

Wow...flooding and drought would be a thing of the past!

I don't think the technology is in place to move that much water at that speed on-demand like that. A better option IMO would be a nationwide high-speed rail network. For not only people, but cargo. Amtrak is ancient technology (with the exception of the Accela line in the northeast). Get it upgraded to something on-par with Europe, and quite a few problems from pollution to rail congestion would be gone.
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Quoting CycloneOz:


Wow...really! That's pretty cool! :)


They have me working all over the place... I've registered as a volunteer and I'm sleeping on our local WCM's hotel room floor... :-)
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Quoting Patrap:
Ill come for Barbeque if one comes here for Jazz Fest,Simon and Garfunkel and Allman Brothers are this years headliners.

Jazz Fest,NOLA 2010

Can't make Jazz Fest this year. The other half has too much planned. I will be in NOLA mid-April, not sure how much time I will have to meet up with people, though.
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Quoting TampaTom:


And, don't forget the Florida Governor's Hurricane Conference at the end of May... I'll be there to teach all week...


Wow...really! That's pretty cool! :)
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Quoting Floodman:


And spending tax dollars on things like the Interstate Highway System. Believe it or not, the republicans and the democrats have been at each other this whole time; regardless of their hatred of one another, they have accomplished some amazing things...


I LOVE THE INTERSTATE! Done in the interest of national security...it truly is a feat.

You know what would be another "interstate-like" feat they could endeavor to work on, that I would support 1,000,000%:

An "interstate waterworks project"

For those who have too much water, the "waterworks" moves it at super-sonic speed to areas with not enough water. It even could follow the highway system.

Wow...flooding and drought would be a thing of the past!
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Quoting nrtiwlnvragn:
Another upcoming Hurricane Conference


And, don't forget the Florida Governor's Hurricane Conference at the end of May... I'll be there to teach all week...
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Quoting RitaEvac:
Those guys on "storm chasers" were getting into the path a few times, it was awesome


Yeah, but for one team, it could have been really bad! I forget his name, but his team drove the "other" TIV, a modified Escalade was it?

Anyway, (oh...his name is Reid...I think) Reid had his driver's window explode on him and he got cut near his left eye.

Very close call. "Coulda put an eye out!" with that! And he designed the thing "for in close."

Don't think I haven't thought about that with what I do in hurricanes.

But like any other extreme sport or activity, the risk of injury (or worse) is always there.

Ms. Vonn of our US Olympic ski team can tell you something about that risk vs. reward scenario from her work this year.
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Its time for lunch i want Bar B Q
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Quoting CycloneOz:


Me, too. That's why the Fed should stick with doing the things it is really GREAT at...like defending our nation with armies!


And spending tax dollars on things like the Interstate Highway System. Believe it or not, the republicans and the democrats have been at each other this whole time; regardless of their hatred of one another, they have accomplished some amazing things...
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Ill come for Barbeque if one comes here for Jazz Fest,Simon and Garfunkel and Allman Brothers are this years headliners.

Jazz Fest,NOLA 2010
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 128667
I usually make Houston/Galveston 2wice a year ,..

And I lub dat bar-b-cue and Astros Games for sure
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 128667
Quoting RitaEvac:
Patrap oughta come over and try out the Houston Rodeo, have some real Texas Bar B Q

For once, I will actually go to the rodeo this year... The other half got 2 tickets to Keith Urban.
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Patrap oughta come over and try out the Houston Rodeo, have some real Texas Bar B Q with finger lickin ribs, brisket, sausage, potato salad and a cold TX beer
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Indianapolis February Climate Summary
Central Indiana
February 2010 Climate Summary

23rd Coolest on record at Indianapolis
14th Driest on record at Indianapolis
6th Snowiest on record at Indianapolis
February 2010 was a cold, snowy month across central Indiana as three large storm systems produced widespread heavy snowfall during the month. Low pressure tracking through the Ohio Valley on the 5th and 6th produced a significant snow cover. Additional snow storms on the 9th and 10th, and again on the 15th increased the snow cover, and allowed it to remain across the region for most of the month. Each storm was accompanied by strong winds, making blowing and drifting snow a significant problem across the region in the day or two following each storm. Despite the significant snowfall throughout the month, precipitation amounts across much of the area were less than one and a half inches.


Temperatures
A persistent upper trough remained across much of the eastern United States throughout the month. This kept central Indiana in a predominant north-northwest flow with cold polar air continuously dropping into the Ohio Valley. High temperatures made it to the mid and upper 30s the first several days of the month. In the wake of the first significant snow storm that impacted the region on the 5th and 6th, a much colder air mass overspread central Indiana with high temperatures remaining below freezing for 13 straight days beginning on the 6th.

Slightly warmer temperatures arrived from the 18th through the 22nd as the trough briefly relaxed across the Ohio Valley. In the wake of another low pressure that brought rain to central Indiana on the 22nd, colder polar air from Canada returned as the upper trough reestablished and held for the rest of the month. The warmest temperature at Indianapolis occurred on the 21st when the high reached 41 degrees. Remarkably, this was the only day the temperature warmed above 40 degrees at Indianapolis in February. The last time the temperature never got above 41 degrees at Indianapolis during February was in 1978, when the temperature reached 40 degrees only once. February 1978 is the coldest February of record. Because of an abundance of clouds for much of the month, temperatures never got below zero at Indianapolis. Several rural locations across the region were able to drop below zero between the 8th and the 14th.

Precipitation

There was only one rain event during February in central and southern Indiana. This occurred on the 21st and 22nd as another winter storm passed through our region. For this storm, central and southern Indiana was on the warm side and received rain. Rainfall of ¼ to ¾ inches occurred generally north of I-70. Rainfall amounts in southeast Indiana were less than one tenth of an inch.

For the month of February, total melted precipitation was below normal. Amounts ranged from less than ½ inch to slightly over 2 inches. Most of central and southern Indiana only received 25 to 75% of normal “rainfall” during February. Most of the precipitation during the month was snow that didn’t have a large water equivalent.

Most of the snow cover in southern Indiana melted on the 21st and 22nd. This caused bank full conditions along the Muscatatuck River in southern Indiana.

Snowfall

Three significant winter storms spread widespread snowfall across central Indiana during the month. A brief wintry mix of precipitation early on the 5th changed over to all snow during the day as low pressure tracked through the Ohio Valley. The snow became heavy at times that evening and into the early part of the 6th as the storm system intensified in the Mid Atlantic region. Snowfall amounts across central Indiana ranged from two to four inches near Terre Haute and Vincennes to as much as 10 inches over eastern Indiana. Wind gusts in excess of 40 mph produced significant blowing and drifting snow that severely hampered travel across the region. Four-foot snow drifts were reported across Delaware and Randolph Counties.

A second winter storm impacted the area on the 9th and 10th, producing an additional two to six inches across the area. The most amount of snowfall fell north of Interstate 70. Strong northwest wind gusts to near 40 mph once again arrived on the back side of the storm system on the night of the 9th, with widespread blowing and drifting of snow causing travel problems all day on the 10th. A third winter storm arrived on President’s Day (the 15th) courtesy of an upper level low and produced heavy snowfall for much of the day. This time, the heaviest snows were focused along and south of Interstate 70 where from six inches to nearly a foot fell. The highest snowfall totals were found from near Bedford and Bloomington east through Columbus, Greensburg, North Vernon and Seymour. This storm produced five to eight inches across the Indianapolis metro area. North of Interstate 70, snowfall totals dropped off considerably, with Lafayette receiving only about an inch.

Much of central Indiana received 15 to 20 inches of snow for February, with Indianapolis officially receiving 17.5 inches. This made February 2010 the sixth snowiest February on record, and the most snow in February for Indianapolis since 2007 when 18.2 inches fell. The record snowfall for February in Indianapolis is 21.7 from 2003.

Severe Weather

No severe weather occurred in central Indiana in February.

For information on severe weather in other areas during February, visit the Storm Prediction Center “Severe Weather Event Summaries” website at http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/online/


Miscellaneous

At the Indianapolis International Airport, the peak wind gust this month was 44 mph from the northeast on February 5. Fog or haze was observed on 20 days, including 7 straight days from the 19th to the 25th. 4 days of dense fog were observed.


March 2010 Outlook

The official outlook for March 2010 from the Climate Prediction Center indicates a greater chance of below normal temperatures across central Indiana. At Indianapolis, the average temperature for the month is 41.7 degrees. A greater chance of below normal precipitation exists across central Indiana in March. At Indianapolis, the average precipitation for March is 3.44” and the average snowfall is 3.1”.

Data prepared by the Indianapolis Forecast Office.
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Oz..Im well aware of what Extreme Hurricanes does.

Best of Luck in 2010 and If in Se La.,..you can Board here if you need to.

I have everything from Generators to Water,and Fuel for the season .
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 128667
The LSU conference is coming up fast...Thanx for the reminder of that.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 128667
Quoting Patrap:
A Hardened Tornado chasing Vehicle..

Note the "low Profile"..
Vans are the worst for in close,as the Profile is way too high,so If you plan to get in close,remember that lil tid-bit Oz.




I'm not into "close-in" tornado chasing. They're best viewed and photographed from a distance. If your goal is to gather scientific data, maybe close in is worth the risk.

I am into close-in hurricane chasing, though. "Where's the center? Where's the core? Is this the strong side of the eye-wall? Can we punch through into the eye?"
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Those guys on "storm chasers" were getting into the path a few times, it was awesome
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Another upcoming Hurricane Conference
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Lol this is all assuming that I will find a tornado :p

here is a video that I took about 2 miles from my house:

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Personally, I think F-3 tornadoes are best viewed from a distance of greater than 10 feet.
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Storm Chasing Advice by CycloneOz

In the second round of this series, I'll cover the correct way of severe storm chasing so that you would not need an emergency-deployed grappling hook to save your ride.

Storm chasing has become a very popular spring past-time for many Americans. Through the advances in real-time technology, these vacationers are able to keep up-to-the-instant contact with professionals who are out gathering scientific data and HD video footage. At the end of last seasons "StormChasers" on the Discovery channel, you can see a literal traffic jam on small, two-lane, no-shoulder farm roads. YOU WANT TO AVOID THESE TRAFFIC JAMS AT ALL COSTS!

Be smart in your chase. If everyone's going to the same storm, perhaps there are other super-cells out there with less people chasing. There's also the "plan ahead" strategy of putting yourself in position for the next day, perhaps making it easier for you to find roadways that won't be packed with other chasers.

Bottomline: Avoid crowds! You need a way out. "Back up, back up BACK UP!"

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Don't mean to beat the off-topic horse, but some of our former Senators here have been brainiacs and truly decent human beings, and it would have been a shame to have term limits. If any of you like political history you might want to look up Charles ("Mac") Mathias.

washingtonpost.com

Charles 'Mac' Mathias Jr.: Principled moderate who aided his state and country

Tuesday, January 26, 2010
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A Hardened Tornado chasing Vehicle..

Note the "low Profile"..
Vans are the worst for in close,as the Profile is way too high,so If you plan to get in close,remember that lil tid-bit Oz.


Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 128667
Quoting AwakeInMaryland:


I know I'm just the worried ("ethnic") Nana, but that sounds like one heck of a good idea, Oz.
TornadoDude, maybe you could offer to give your folks whatever monies you could get for the Accord, or give it to them to donate to the charity of their choice to write off on their taxes -- it can be a nice little tax write off.

I think blogger Auburn participates with a charity that takes used cars...if I am recalling correctly they will pick them up.


I'll have to talk to them, but good idea!
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Quoting Patrap:
I suggest the Mini-Van with the Concrete grapple device to keep the F-3 plus Nadoes from turning u into a Ping Pong ball .

Optional of course.



Of course you would. Let me know if you ever find one on e-bay.
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Quoting CycloneOz:


Oooooooo....tell them they need to buy a new Kia Sedona and get the '97 for yourself! Your dad has probably maintained the hell out of that car!

Wow...that's the ticket!


I know I'm just the worried ("ethnic") Nana, but that sounds like one heck of a good idea, Oz.
TornadoDude, maybe you could offer to give your folks whatever monies you could get for the Accord, or give it to them to donate to the charity of their choice to write off on their taxes -- it can be a nice little tax write off.

I think blogger Auburn participates with a charity that takes used cars...if I am recalling correctly they will pick them up.
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Quoting CycloneOz:


Me, too. That's why the Fed should stick with doing the things it is really GREAT at...like defending our nation with armies!


LOL...when did that stop?

Armies didnt stop the 911 attacks last I checked.

Nor did 23,000 Nukes.

19 Guys with a Plan and Box Cutters did us in fairly easily from Logan Airport.

Flawed intelligence and intelligence relevant,months in advance,was dismissed as well.

And never was so much taken from so many by so few after it.
AKA the Patriot Act,..the biggest misnomer ever designed.




Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 128667
What is VORTEX2?



VORTEX2 is by far the largest and most ambitious effort ever made to understand tornadoes.
We expect over 100 scientists and over 40 science and support vehicles to participate in this unique, fully nomadic, field program during its second and last field season, May/June 2010. The National Science Foundation (NSF) foundation and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) are contributing over $10 million towards this effort. Participants will again be drawn from over a dozen universities, and several government and private organizations. International participants will be drawn from Italy, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Germany, Canada and Australia.


Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 426 Comments: 128667
Quoting Floodman:


I'm all for limitaions in the strength and size of the Federal government, but without a strong centralized government then we are 50 separate nations, all weak and ripe for picking off, one at a time


Me, too. That's why the Fed should stick with doing the things it is really GREAT at...like defending our nation with armies!
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Quoting CycloneOz:


The bigger van will be a trade-off. Much more room versus bigger gas bill.



I'll just try for the venture Lol
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Quoting tornadodude:


yeah, and I think it only has 130,000 miles on it too, it could easily be gutted as well. We also have a big Ford 15 passenger van that is used for catering. it is gutted already


The bigger van will be a trade-off. Much more room versus bigger gas bill.

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Quoting Floodman:


Have a revolution, kill the old Constitution


But I like our old Constitution. It was written by men newly freed!
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Quoting CycloneOz:


Oooooooo....tell them they need to buy a new Kia Sedona and get the '97 for yourself! Your dad has probably maintained the hell out of that car!

Wow...that's the ticket!


yeah, and I think it only has 130,000 miles on it too, it could easily be gutted as well. We also have a big Ford 15 passenger van that is used for catering. it is gutted already

haha the extra 1K isnt gonna happen :P
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Quoting Floodman:


I'm all for limitaions in the strength and size of the Federal government, but without a strong centralized government then we are 50 separate nations, all weak and ripe for picking off, one at a time

Well said.

Our country's greatest strength is its unity.
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Quoting tornadodude:


my parents own a 97 chevy venture, now to convince them to hand it over to a son in need of a new vehicle ha


Oooooooo....tell them they need to buy a new Kia Sedona and get the '97 for yourself! Your dad has probably maintained the hell out of that car!

Wow...that's the ticket!

While your at it, ask them to spring for an extra $1k for the bedding, camera, helmet, campstove, underbed rubbermaid container...etc.
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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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