Poorly sited U.S. temperature instruments not responsible for artificial warming

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 5:57 PM GMT on January 25, 2010

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Former TV weatherman Anthony Watts, who runs the popular global warming contrarian website, "Watts Up With That", was convinced that many of the U.S. network of surface weather stations had serious flaws in their siting that was causing an artificial warm bias in the observed increase in U.S. temperatures of 1.1°F over the past century. To address this concern, Watts established the website surfacestations.org in 2007, which enlisted an army of volunteers to travel the U.S. to obtain photographic evidence of poor siting of weather stations. The goal was to document cases where "microclimate" influence was important, and could be contaminating temperature measurements. (Note that this is a separate issue from the Urban Heat Island, the phenomenon where a metropolitan area in general is warmer than surrounding rural areas). Watts' volunteers--650 strong--documented the siting of 865 of the 1,218 stations used in the National Climatic Data Center's U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) for tracking climate change. As reported in Watt's 2009 publication put out by the Heartland Institute, the volunteers "found stations located next to the exhaust fans of air conditioning units, surrounded by asphalt parking lots and roads, on blistering-hot rooftops, and near sidewalks and buildings that absorb and radiate heat." Watts surmised that these poorly-sited stations were responsible for much of the increase in U.S. temperatures over the past century, due to "a bias trend that likely results from the thermometers being closer to buildings, asphalt, etc." Watts concluded, "the U.S. temperature record is unreliable. And since the U.S. record is thought to be the best in the world, it follows that the global database is likely similarly compromised and unreliable".


Figure 1. A poorly sited temperature sensor in Marysville, California, used for the USHCN. The sensor is situation right next to an asphalt parking lot, instead in the middle of a grassy field, as it is supposed to be. The sensor is also adjacent to several several air conditioners that blow their exhaust into the air nearby. Image credit: surfacestation.org.

Analysis of the data disagrees with Watts' conclusion
While Watts' publication by the Heartland Institute is a valuable source of information on siting problems of the U.S. network of weather stations, the publication did not undergo peer-review--the process whereby three anonymous scientists who are experts in the field review a manuscript submitted for publication, and offer criticisms on the scientific validity of the results, resulting in revisions to the original paper or outright rejection. The Heartland Institute is an advocacy organization that accepts money from corporate benefactors such as the tobacco industry and fossil fuel industry, and publishes non-peer reviewed science that inevitably supports the interests of the groups paying for the studies. Watts did not actually analyze the data to see if taking out the poorly sited surface stations would have a significant impact on the observed 1.1°F increase in U.S. temperatures over the past century. His study would never have been publishable in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.


Figure 2. Annual average maximum and minimum unadjusted temperature change calculated using (c) maximum and (d) minimum temperatures from good and poor exposure sites (Menne 2010). Poor sites showed a cooler maximum temperature compared to good sites. For minimum temperature, the poor sites were slightly warmer. The net effect was a cool bias in poorly sited stations. The dashed lines are for stations ranked by NOAA, while the solid lines are for the stations ranked by surfacestations.org.

Fortunately, a proper analysis of the impact of these poorly-sited surface stations on the U.S. historical temperature record has now been done by Dr. Matthew Menne and co-authors at NOAA's National Climatic Data Center (NCDC). In a talk at last week's 90th Annual Meeting of the American Meteorological Society, Dr. Menne reported the results of their new paper just accepted for publication in the Journal of Geophysical Research titled, On the reliability of the U.S. Surface Temperature Record. Dr. Menne's study split the U.S. surface stations into two categories: good (rating 1 or 2) and bad (ratings 3, 4 or 5). They performed the analysis using both the rating provided by surfacestations.org, and from an independent rating provided by NOAA personnel. In general, the NOAA-provided ratings coincided with the ratings given by surfacestations.org. Of the NOAA-rated stations, only 71 stations fell into the "good" siting category, while 454 fell into the "bad" category. According to the authors, though, "the sites with good exposure, though small in number, are reasonably well distributed across the country and, as shown by Vose and Menne [2004], are of sufficient density to obtain a robust estimate of the CONUS average". Dr. Menne's study computed the average daily minimum and maximum temperatures from the good sites and poor sites. The results were surprising. While the poor sites had a slightly warmer average minimum temperature than the good sites (by 0.03°C), the average maximum temperature measured at the poor sites was significantly cooler (by 0.14°C) than the good sites. As a result, overall average temperatures measured at the poor sites were cooler than the good sites. This is the opposite of the conclusion reached by Anthony Watts in his 2009 Heartland Institute publication.

Why did the poorly sited stations measure cooler temperatures?
The reason why the poorly-sites stations measured cooler temperatures lies in the predominant types of thermometers used at the two types of sites. An electronic Maximum/Minimum Temperature System (MMTS) is used at 75% of the poor sites. These MMTS sensors are attached by cable to an indoor readout device, and are consequently limited by cable length as to how far they can be sited from the building housing the indoor readout device. As a result, they are often located close to heated buildings, paved surfaces, air conditioner exhausts, etc. It turns out that these MMTS thermometers have a flaw that causes them to measure minimum temperatures that are slightly too warm, and maximum temperatures that are considerably too cool, leading to an overall cool bias in measured average temperatures. In contrast, only 30% of the "good" sites used the MMTS sensors. The "good" sites predominantly used Liquid in Glass (LiG) thermometers housed in wooden shelters that were more easily located further from the buildings where the observers worked. Since the poorly-sites stations were dominantly equipped with MMTS thermometers, they tended to measure temperatures that were too cool, despite their poor siting.


Figure 3. Comparison of U.S. average annual (a) maximum and (b) minimum temperatures calculated using USHCN version 2 temperatures. Temperatures were adjusted to correct for changes in instrumentation, station relocations, and changes in the time of observation, making the trend from good sites show close agreement with poor sites. Good and poor site ratings are based on surfacestations.org. For comparison, the data between 2004 - 2008 taken by the new high-quality U.S. Climate Reference Network (USCRN, black dashed line) is shown, and displays excellent agreement for that time period. Image credit: Menne 2010.

Independent verification of recent USHCN annual temperatures
Clearly, the siting of many of the surface stations used to track climate change in the U.S. is not good. To address this issue, in 2004 NOAA created the U.S. Climate Reference Network, a collection of 114 stations in the continental United States for the express purpose of detecting the national signal of climate change. The stations were sited and instrumented with climate studies in mind, and can provide an extremely high-quality independent check on the old USHCN network. Each of 114 stations at 107 locations (some stations were installed as nearby pairs) is equipped with very accurate instruments in a triplicate configuration so that each measurement can be checked for internal consistency. As shown in Figure 3, the USCRN air temperature departures for 2004 - 2008 are extremely well aligned with those derived from the USHCN version 2 temperature data. For these five years, the the difference between the mean annual temperatures measured by the old USHCN compared to the new USCRN was just 0.03°C, with a mathematical correlation coefficient (r-squared) of 0.997. Menne et al. concluded, "This finding provides independent verification that the USHCN version 2 data are consistent with research-quality measurements taken at pristine locations and do not contain spurious trends during the recent past even if sampled exclusively at poorly sited stations. While admittedly this period of coincident observations between the networks is rather brief, the value of the USCRN as a benchmark for reducing the uncertainty of historic observations from the USHCN and other networks will only increase with time". The authors finally concluded, "we find no evidence that the CONUS temperature trends are inflated due to poor siting".

Crediting Anthony Watts
The surfacestations.org effort coordinated by Anthony Watts has made a valuable contribution to science, helping us better understand the nature of the errors in the U.S. historical temperature data set. In his talk last week at the AMS conference, and in the credits of his paper, Dr. Menne had some genuinely grateful comments on the efforts of Anthony Watts and the volunteers of surfacestations.org. However, as of this writing, Watts has made no mention on surfacestations.org or on wattsupwiththat.com of Dr. Menne's study.

I'll have a new post Wednesday or Thursday.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting weathermanwannabe:
Lots of GW Trolls hanging around the Blog lately..... :)



Sho nuff
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Lots of GW Trolls hanging around the Blog lately..... :)
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Quoting Nimitz:
If this gets me banned, then so be it.

WILL YOU PLEASE STOP ALL THE GLOBAL WARMING CRAP!!!!!

I come here a LOT. I mostly lurk. WU has been my best resource for finding out the weather forecast, providing me with timely information. That is, until the past week. Now it's nothing but GW arguments, whining, sniping, etc. If you want to beat your favorite drum, please take it somewhere else, because I've had it. Have I got a belief? Sure do. Will I discuss it here? Haven't in a year so far, don't plan to. I'm not an expert, so my opinion is just like everyone else's and smells the same.

/rant
Byron

I'm with you, Some times in the past few days, I haven't even bothered reading back blog cause i no exactly what it's about. AGW.
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Good Morning. Once again for the WU Folks in Northern Florida. 2nd Annual WeatherFest all day on Saturday at NWS in Tallahassee on the campus of Florida State:

Tours of the National Weather Service Office in Tallahassee, FL. See a demonstration of the operational workstations we use to prepare forecasts and warnings. Watch NWS Meteorologists as they work on the forecast right before your eyes.

Meet and interact with NWS Meteorologists, FSU Meteorology professors and students, and members of the state, county, city and university emergency repsonse personnel.
Explore FSU's Mobile Doppler radar research vehicle.
Tour emergency support vehicles, like the Florida Division of Emergency Managements's Mobile Command Vehicle, the City of Tallahassee's Urban Search & Rescue Support Vehicle, The Tallahassee Police Department's MCV, and even a 40-ft fire engine.

Meet your favorite local television meteorologists from WCTV, WTXL, WALB, and WJHG. The on-air meteorologists will be here with their live remote vans and will also be participating in a panel discussion in the large lecture hall within Love Bldg.

Loca HAM operators will be here with their equipment. You can also get your NOAA Weather radio programmed. Just be sure your radio has batteries when you bring it to the festival.

Educational exhibits on physical science and meteorology will be fun for all ages! The balloon toss will return to demonstrate to kids how we colllect rainfall measurements. We will also have an oobleck demonstration of a non-Newtonian liquid. This has to be seen to be believed. Can you walk on water?

Explore the FSU Meteorology TV Studio to see how students prepare their daily broadcasts. You can act out the weather in front of the "big green wall." The Weather Challenge game will return. New games start every hour on the hour.
This year, FSU faculty and staff from the Meteorology and Oceanography Depts. will be giving weather talks geared toward the general public on popular topics of the day. Scheduled topics are listed below.


"El Niño and its Impact on the Southeast U.S." by NWS Tallahassee Meteorologist-in-Charge, Paul Duval

"Shocking Facts about Lightning" by Dr. Henry Fuelberg

"Meteorology on the Gulf" by Dr. Paul Ruscher

"Climate Change and ClimateGate" by Dr. Jon Ahlquist

"Slowing Down of the Global Conveyor Belt and It's Impact on the Climate" by Physical Oceanography graduate student, Mona Behl


Participate in the simulation of a severe weather event with NWS Meteorologists to observe the warning decision and dissemination process. You'll help make the warning decisions! We'll be moving this popular demonstration to a larger venue to accomodate more people, since many of you were unable to participate last year. A new case will be used this year, so don't think you already know the answers! The simulation will begin every hour on the half hour.

Learn about weather balloons and how we use the data they provide. Tour our launch facility. Observe a live balloon launch during your visit! We will be launching the balloons from the parking lot this year and have seven launches scheduled, so you won't miss out. We'll be giving away WeatherFest balloons to the kids, so they can launch their balloon along with ours!

Raffles and plenty of other giveaways are planned throughout the day! Be sure to get your official WeatherFest pen. We'll have balloons for the kids.

Campus vending services will be selling "fan fare" food items at the event. Goodies such as hot dogs, cotton candy, ice cream, cocoa, and other beverages will be available at a reduced price. In addition, the N. Florida AMS will have a bake sale on the 3rd floor of the Love Bldg.


Bring the Family and have a great time....
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Morning jeff9641, I hear you on the up coming rain. so far this month i have 4.53in. Been awhile since i've been over normal which is 3.41in.
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1270. Nimitz
If this gets me banned, then so be it.

WILL YOU PLEASE STOP ALL THE GLOBAL WARMING CRAP!!!!!

I come here a LOT. I mostly lurk. WU has been my best resource for finding out the weather forecast, providing me with timely information. That is, until the past week. Now it's nothing but GW arguments, whining, sniping, etc. If you want to beat your favorite drum, please take it somewhere else, because I've had it. Have I got a belief? Sure do. Will I discuss it here? Haven't in a year so far, don't plan to. I'm not an expert, so my opinion is just like everyone else's and smells the same.

/rant
Byron
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There's no way this man should be taken seriously from this point forward. Not even by the Fox News crowd.


You ought to watch a little Fox News once in a while. They top the ratings for a reason. You head in the sand types don't get all the news.
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Quoting JFLORIDA:
Another thing in the back of my mind parallel to the warming controversy is the AIDS crisis. Early on people said the same kind of political things about funding public prevention projects and research.

Look where that got us. I was too young to speak up then but I can now. Even if by some chance I am wrong - this will affect millions disastrously and I will take the risk, I don't want to be like those that let AIDS do what it has done.

It is actually the same kind of thing also:

Ironically THE leader of the denial movement - "Lord" Mockton was instrumental in AIDS denial (or disinformation) also.



In an article entitled "AIDS: A British View", written for the January 1987 issue of The American Spectator(same magazine running denial articles), he argued that "there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently." This would involve isolating between 1.5 and 3 million people in the United States ("not altogether impossible") and another 30,000 people in the UK ("not insuperably difficult").


In February 1987 discussing his views he presented the results of an opinion poll that showed public support for his position.

Never mind people are infectious before they seroconvert - so he would had probably made it worse here - Today and every day 6500 PEOPLE WILL DIE of AIDS in Sub Saharan Africa according to UNAIDS. That's a Haiti earthquake in casualties every 25 days. Back in the 80s, forget the death and suffering here, if people would have listened to scientists and experts, Researched accordingly, showed some simple compassion for other peoples that number would have been far less.

But no, people like that phony and magazines like "American Spectator" had to run that garbage. Just like now.

"AIDS: A British View" when we needed action - I wont be on the wrong side of this, or not be taking it seriously because it makes me "uncomfortable" (like discussing AIDS) when the time comes for me to account for my beliefs and actions.

And yes I puled the article and he did say it.


Here is an internet article
Conservative "Climate Expert" Wants to Quarantine People with AIDS
Lord Christopher Monckton wears a lot of dubious nametags. He's a go-to guy for conservatives like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, and a frequent right-wing pundit when it comes to issues like global warming and climate change.

Of course, don't expect to find Monckton in line to buy a Toyota Prius or blowing his nose into Seventh Generation tissue. Turns out Monckton is a global warming denier who thinks that environmental activism is akin to Nazism, and that youth activists working to stop climate change are similar to the young people that took up arms in Hitler's Army.

And the crazy train doesn't stop there. Media Matters broke the story that Monckton once wrote a piece for the American Spectator where he urged the government to lock up everyone with HIV/AIDS, and to institute mandatory monthly HIV testing for the entire population.

Yikes. And this man is a hero to small government types like Beck and Limbaugh? Monckton's politics and public comments are so extreme, he makes the KGB seem like Care Bears.

The article unearthed by Media Matters shows a man that is so woefully ignorant of science and public health, that his piece is beyond embarrassing. It's scary.

"For there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life to halt the transmission of the disease to those who are uninfected," Monckton wrote. "Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month to detect the presence of antibodies against the disease, and all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently."

How V for Vendetta or Children of Men of Monckton. Yet this is a man who Rush Limbaugh called "a voice of sanity." Now that's some definition of sanity.

And proving that ignorance ages with time, Monckton has been lighting it up with hate speech in Copenhagen this week, as activists and world leaders from around the globe take part in historic climate change negotiations. Monckton is there, attending nice little events sponsored by big industry types like Exxon-Mobil, calling environmental activists Nazis.

"The number of people being killed by this misplaced belief in climate change is if anything greater than the number of people killed by Hitler," Monckton told a Huffington Post blogger.

So there ya' have it. A conservative "expert" on climate change -- who never majored in science, by the way, and has no scientific background -- telling the world that people living with AIDS should be locked up for life, and that climate change activists are worse than the Third Reich.

There's no way this man should be taken seriously from this point forward. Not even by the Fox News crowd.

http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/conservative_climate_expert_wants_to_quarantine_people_with_a ids
Member Since: September 22, 2005 Posts: 11 Comments: 2032
1263. unf97
Good morning!

34.2 degrees as the sun rises in North Jax this morning. Also, some scattered frost.
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Good Morning, Just a tad chilly this fine day.
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1260. leftovers 12:09 PM GMT on January 27, 2010
will the jobs come back like some foresee?



When focus and confidence is restored, yes...IMHO
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By HOLLY RAMER, Associated Press Writer Holly Ramer, Associated Press Writer – Tue Jan 26, 9:26 pm ET
CONCORD, N.H. – First the Old Man, now the Big Wind. New Hampshire's Mount Washington has lost its distinction as the site of the fastest wind gust ever recorded on Earth, officials at the Mount Washington Observatory said Tuesday.

The concession came three days after the World Meteorological Organization posted a snippet on its Web site saying a panel of experts reviewing extreme weather and climate data turned up a 253 mph gust on Australia's Barrow Island during Cyclone Olivia in 1996.

That tops the 231 mph record set atop Mount Washington on April 12, 1934.
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Iron Mountain, Michigan (Airport)
Updated: 4:54 AM CST on January 27, 2010
1 °F
Mostly Cloudy
Windchill: -13 °F
Humidity: 69%
Dew Point: -7 °F
Wind: 8 mph from the West
Pressure: 29.88 in (Rising)
Visibility: 10.0 miles
UV: 0 out of 16
Clouds: Mostly Cloudy 7000 ft
(Above Ground Level)
Elevation: 1181 ft

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Quoting transitzone:

Nothing to indicate linkage. Different plates. Different types of rumblings. Very long distance apart, which includes other quiet shake zones in between, such as New Madrid. Yellowstone has a history of swarms. If you want to connect those to plate boundary activity consider the Pacific or Jaun de Fuca plates, both much closer. I haven't looked to see if there's unusual quake activity in the US Pacific Northwest

I've always used "meander" as my rule of thumb for quake activity and plate tectonics.
Though there is an impetus for direction of movement, until we can Xray the edges of all the plate boundariers at the same time and feed the everchanging dynamics of all the plates into a computer model large earthquakes will see no more than a few moments notice before the event.
Meandering, chaotic cascade...IMHO
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1255. HadesGodWyvern (Mod)
Mauritius Meteorological Services
Tropical Cyclone Advisory Number THREE
ZONE PERTURBEE 10-20092010
10:00 AM Réunion January 27 2010
=======================================

At 6:00 AM UTC, Area of Disturbed Weather (1005 hPa) located at 18.3S 58.0E has 10 minute sustained winds of 20 knots with gusts of 35 knots. The disturbance is reported as moving south-southeast at 0 knots.

Dvorak Intensity: 1.5/1.5/D 0.5/24 HRS

Forecast and Intensity
======================
12 HRS: 19.4S 58.6E - 25 knots (Perturbation Tropicale)
24 HRS: 20.7S 58.6E - 30 knots (Depression Tropicale)
48 HRS: 23.6S 58.6E - 35 knots (Tempête Tropicale Modereé)
72 HRS: 26.4S 60.1E - 35 knots (Devenant EXTRATROPICAL)

Additional Information
========================
Convective activity has persisted since yesterday at 17.00z and shows now a curved band pattern. There is however no obvious low level center on METEO-SAT7 animation and also on SSMIS 0120z. Environmental condition are rather good (oceanic heat potential favorable, good equatorward inflow but less efficient poleward, weak vertical wind shear). Environmental is expected to remain favorable within the next 24-48 hours. Beyond, northwesterly vertical wind shear should increase with an approaching upper levels trough. Ocean heat potential becomes unfavorable south of 24S. The low is expected to track globally south southeastward on the western edge of a mid level ridge in its east.

Réunion and Mauritius islands should stay far away from the more intense convective activity east of the system which should concern Rodriques island within the next 3 days.
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Quoting TampaSpin:
funny how when this quake occured also, that just by chance all the quakes in YellowStone has been occuring. Don't know if they could be linked but, it sure is mind puzzling to me.

Nothing to indicate linkage. Different plates. Different types of rumblings. Very long distance apart, which includes other quiet shake zones in between, such as New Madrid. Yellowstone has a history of swarms. If you want to connect those to plate boundary activity consider the Pacific or Jaun de Fuca plates, both much closer. I haven't looked to see if there's unusual quake activity in the US Pacific Northwest
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1253. HadesGodWyvern (Mod)
Tropical Cyclone Warning Center Darwin
Tropical Cyclone Advice #27
TROPICAL LOW, FORMER OLGA (07U)
5:00 PM CST January 27 2010
========================================

At 3:30 pm CST, Tropical Low, Former Olga (994 hPa) located at 16.3S 137.0E or located 80 kms east southeast of Borroloola and 240 kms west of Mornington Island has 10 minute sustained winds of 30 knots with gusts of 45 knots. The low is reported as moving west southwest at 4 knots.

Dvorak Intensity: T2.5/2.5/D0.5/24HRS

Ex-Tropical Cyclone Olga is forecast to move slowly offshore Thursday morning where it is expected to redevelop into a tropical cyclone.

GALES with gusts to 110 kilometres per hour are expected to develop between the NT/Qld Border and Cape Shield, including Groote Eylandt, during Thursday morning. GALES with gusts to 110 kilometres per hour may extend as far east as Burketown in Queensland, including Mornington Island, during Thursday if the developing cyclone follows a more easterly track.

HEAVY RAIN may lead to significant stream rises and flooding of low-lying areas in the Roper-McArthur and Arnhem districts.

Abnormally high tides are expected between the NT Border and Burketown tonight and tomorrow, where the sea level may exceed the highest tide of the year on the largest tide of the day. Large waves are likely along the beachfront.

Tropical Cyclone Warnings
===================================
A Cyclone WARNING continues for coastal and island communities from Cape Shield in the NT to Burketown in Queensland, including Groote Eylandt and Mornington Island.

A Cyclone WATCH has been declared for coastal and island communities from Burketown to Kowanyama in Queensland.

Forecast and Intensity
=====================
12 HRS: 15.9S 136.5E - 30 knots (Tropical Low)
24 HRS: 15.5S 136.7E - 40 knots (CAT 1)
48 HRS: 16.2S 138.8E - 55 knots (CAT 2)
72 HRS: 19.1S 142.4E - 40 knots (CAT 1)

Additional Information
=========================
Ex-TC Olga was located by radar close to the southern Gulf of Carpentaria coast and has recently moved in a SW direction taking it further inland. Cloud structure has significantly improved in the last few hours with tightly curved bands developing and cirrus outflow. Possible 0.4 wrap from visible satellite imagery but FT based on MET with a slow development giving a FT of 2.5. The system is forecast to move NW under the influence of the mid-level steering ridge to the southwest, then recurve towards the N or NE early on Thursday as a middle level trough amplifies over central Australia. The broad-scale environment is very favourable for redevelopment of a tropical cyclone when the LLCC moves further over southern Gulf of Carpentaria waters, with divergent outflow aloft and strong monsoonal westerlies to the north.
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Quoting tornadodude:


agreed, thanks Taz


goodnight guys



your welcome
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Quoting Tazmanian:




better yet can we this drop it?? and move on too some in new this is geting vary vary old


agreed, thanks Taz


goodnight guys
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8337
Quoting tornadodude:


alright. I was trying to be civil about it, and maybe we could just agree to disagree? obviously neither one of us are changing our views.




better yet can we this drop it?? and move on too some in new this is geting vary vary old
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night everyone (:
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8337
Quoting TampaSpin:


Taz a build up of 200 years is being released but, to have this many strong after shakes i have never seen before like this some 2 weeks later........i find it very strange......funny how when this quake occured also, that just by chance all the quakes in YellowStone has been occuring. Don't know if they could be linked but, it sure is mind puzzling to me.




ok whats the news on yellowstone do you have for us PM me about this and went me no


good night
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Lol goodnight Tampa
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8337
Nite Matt.....see ya tomorrow.
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Quoting tornadodude:


alright. I was trying to be civil about it, and maybe we could just agree to disagree? obviously neither one of us are changing our views.


Bro, he talks to himself most of the time anyways.....LOL...its no loss!
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Quoting JFLORIDA:
why tell me - dont care.


alright. I was trying to be civil about it, and maybe we could just agree to disagree? obviously neither one of us are changing our views.
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8337
JF,

I hate to do this, but I think I'm going to put you on my ignore list. It honestly is nothing personal, but you and I seem to butt heads a lot, and it would be better for the blog if we quit bantering back and forth on here
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8337
Quoting TampaSpin:


Possibly So.....LOOK how the Artic air moves into Canada!



Dang! Lol thats gonna be a bit nippy, eh?
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8337
Quoting weatherbro:
Starting next week the Polar Vortex will pay a visit to the lower lakes/Northeast. So next month promises to(at least) start off like early this month for the eastern 2/3(though details are still not ironed out).

Winter ain't over yet!!


Possibly So.....LOOK how the Artic air moves into Canada!

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Lafayette, Purdue University Airport
Lat: 40.43 Lon: -86.93 Elev: 623
Last Update on Jan 27, 12:54 am EST

Fair

17 °F
(-8 °C)
Humidity: 70 %
Wind Speed: W 10 MPH
Barometer: 30.14" (1021.6 mb)
Dewpoint: 9 °F (-13 °C)
Wind Chill: 5 °F (-15 °C)
Visibility: 10.00 mi.
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8337
Starting next week the Polar Vortex will pay a visit to the lower lakes/Northeast. So next month promises to(at least) start off like early this month for the eastern 2/3(though details are still not ironed out).

Winter ain't over yet!!
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Quoting Tazmanian:



you dont think Haiti will be Sinking do you with all the Earthquake they been haveing i no it wont and i hop not but could it?


Taz a build up of 200 years is being released but, to have this many strong after shakes i have never seen before like this some 2 weeks later........i find it very strange......funny how when this quake occured also, that just by chance all the quakes in YellowStone has been occuring. Don't know if they could be linked but, it sure is mind puzzling to me.
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ok here comes the debate again. I am staying out of it this time before I get flagged and threatened with an indefinite ban
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 25 Comments: 8337

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.